Just to update what I said in this video about my Doubler being on sale-she’s off the market, folks! I was lucky enough that a close friend of mine (who I’m sure will treat her well) was in the market for just what the Doubler could offer.
@@directcurrent5751 You’re probably right. I have complex feelings on the matter, but certain importers like John Packer, Thomann, and ACB are doing a good job. It’s just a shame to see what a shift towards that could do to the overall level of innovation in the industry, but I suppose some things are inevitable.
@@SamuelPlaysBrassRespectfully, this is a matter of economic justice. The PRC imports are predominantly almost antique trumpet and flugelhorn platforms in mass produced stencils. Time is overdue for the democratization of entry brass. Big Company doesn't get to kid us that the student cornet platform is in a revolutionary state. Importantly, there is innovation in the boutique companies and CONNglomerate professional departments, where the money is big.
You have an earlier generation than the one I was playing on IIRC, which I think is based on the Yamaha 631G. I wouldn’t be as much a fan due to the bore being larger/less conical but I’m sure it’s a great horn!
@@SamuelPlaysBrass yeah it’s definitely based on the Yamaha. I got a 631 leadpipe and put it in the horn. Great investment. Would love to try the Couesnon inspired ones
I just received mine yesterday. This is, like you, the very first brand new brass instrument I've ever bought. I tried a 1st or 2nd generation about 5 years ago and frankly was so much like my 2310S I just could not justify spending the money. The old Yammie was made in 1981, has had the valves replaced and frankly is just pretty much worn out. It was time. Two days of playing in, still adjusting to it. A huge plus in comparison are the valves, excellent compression and really flows between notes, whereas the 2310 needs a lot more air to get the notes to speak. On the other hand, and not really a negative, is easy to overblow. As we are micced in performance, isn't an issue and the sound produced at higher dynamic is almost like a guitar's distortion pedal, at least to my ears. I can see where it will have it's use. Lastly, agree 100% about the fullness in the lower register, takes sooo much less air than my old Yammie. Thanks for your review, just watched it and confirms my observations after the short time I've had it. And yes, did hit the subscribe button!
Thank you for your kind words, Perry! I appreciate you joining the club. I’ll bet the reason the earlier generations felt too similar to your 2310 to spend more money on was their larger bore. The 2310/631 are great players but are really held back by the fact that their bores are larger without compensating via a larger bell (e.g. my Getzen Eterna). ACB struck gold using the small French bore on this generation, as did Yamaha with the 635/8310/8315. As far as your observations with your new Doubler-you lucked out on the valves. The valves on mine were merely passable. They felt overly heavy and clunky even when properly swabbed out and oiled. Also, yes, the Doubler is VERY easily overblown-I didn’t fully understand this until I got that Eterna and realized how much more of its dynamic range stayed well within control and still sounded like a flugel. Indeed, if you are not mic’d up in a performance, the Doubler is likely to either fall short or buck against you. Still, all in all, the newer two gens of the Doubler are amazing for the price and I’m glad you are enjoying yours! Keep me posted.
@@SamuelPlaysBrassI suspect one of the things about the valves that make a difference is that I played exclusively vintage equipment up until a few months ago. I lucked into a trade on a Schilke S32 from 1995, traded a 1963 Conn 6B for it, made a few repairs and wow, what a difference! My main player is a 1969 Conn 60B which is getting sent off for valve replating. When you are used to loose valves, and they do have their place, going to something with 100% compression is a big, big difference. I've tried some of the old Couesnon Monopoles and the first thing I noticed were the clacky, clunky, noisy valves. These are light years better with the same thick, dark sound.
I picked up an ACB Doubler back in 2014. I needed a flugel, and it was all I had the budget for at the time. I figured I'd upgrade it later on. Previously I had owned a Kanstul CCF 925 which was a really nice playing horn, but like a dummy I sold it. In any case, I picked up the ACB Doubler, and I still use it because simply put, it does everything I need it to do. It plays so similarly to a Yamaha 631, that there's just no real reason to spend money that I don't have to spend to get something that may only be marginally "better."
I think that’s a good assessment. You had an earlier generation of the Doubler which was in fact a 631G copy. Sorry to hear you no longer have that Kanstul, though. Kanstul’s on my bucket list of flugelhorn brands to try. Not like I need to buy one, though-I sold this ACB and have been playing a wonderful Getzen Eterna 896 four-valve for the past several months.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Right - there is a small difference though - the bell is just a touch smaller. As an example, a legit 631 will fit on my K&M flugel stand without issue. The bell on the ACB is just a touch too tight. Otherwise that seems to be about the only difference. I actually swapped out the original leadpipe with a Yamaha leadpipe, and used Yamaha valve springs, which aren't quite as tight. Apparently the 631 leadpipe does not fit on the newer versions of the ACB doubler. With that said, I've heard that the current iteration of the ACB Doubler is every bit as good as the ones that preceded it. Either way, it still plays very well - it's been on hundreds of gigs at this point.
I had no idea about the bell difference. Interesting! Using a 631 leadpipe on older Doublers is a common modification, and a friend actually encouraged me to try it when I got mine, but I'm glad I didn't, given that I had the newer generation that was more similar to a smaller-bore 6310 and, as you just confirmed for me, the 631 leadpipe would not have fit.
I have their Doubler large bore cornet, it has a wonderful sound with a Denis Wick 2B. Actually, I have a Getzen Eterna flugelhorn (circa 1995), with curry magnum caps, and a Denis Wick 2FL, and it plays with a super dark and velvety sound. I have had it for almost 3 decades, so I'm really at home with it's tendances. If I was to get another, it would likely be a Yamaha 8310Z, or maybe something like an Adams.
We have very similar setups! You're talking to a fellow Wick 2B/2FL loyalist and recently-converted Getzen Eterna flugel-ist! I also would love to have an 8310Z someday, for the sake of having a small-bore model (and considering I play an 8310Z trumpet as my daily driver), but I'll admit I'd almost rather take one of the older 635 or 6315 model flugelhorns over their modern 8-series counterparts.
I bought the Dillon Rose Brass flugelhorn, which, though heavy and a bit clunky, played quite well. Carol Brass / Manchester Brass is far superior in terms of construction. I own an ACB-tweaked Manchester trumpet. Extremely high quality for the price.
Fourth-line D was definitely my biggest struggle in three years of owning this horn! It seemed there was no 'right' decision besides having a 1st slide trigger installed!
Great review, and it’s just what I’m looking for considering it’s an option I’ve been looking at for something cheap that’ll get the job done until I can find something more professional. I was wondering though, how does it play on some more classical sounding stuff like McKee’s “A Winter’s Night”?
Glad to help, Nathaniel! Thanks for watching. The reason there weren't many playing demos in this video is because I just recently posted a video (linked in the card on this one) where I put this flugel to the test against my new Getzen Eterna in several different genres, so you can listen to that to get a sense of its classical sound, but I think the ACB is great for wind band and brass band work, particularly with a mouthpiece that's on the larger side like my Denis Wick 2FL.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Silly me. I forgot about that video despite the fact that I watched it about a week ago. I suppose I was asking you to put your thoughts into words. But thanks for your reply.
High F being sharp is a normal on most instruments because of it lying on the 6th harmonic, but it’s insanely sharp on this horn, yikes. Would it be possible to have Austin customize it and install a first valve trigger? Also something not mentioned, these things the nicest valves I’ve ever felt out of every brass instrument
I wish more flugelhorns came with a 1st slide trigger. It's something I've thought about on both this horn and my new Getzen Eterna over the past couple years. I might go on to make one for the Getzen someday, depending on how it feels to play in performance settings.
My wife bought me one of these and it played so badly out of tune I returned it. I don’t buy that TA personally play tests every one of these Chinese Flugs. If he did, he never would have let the one I had be sold. After all, it is his number 1 seller. No way he would take the time to go though all the pallets of Chinese made Flugs. I got a Jean Paul Chinese flug on Amazon for less money than one of those, and it plays in tune way better and has a great sound. I recommend one of these Jean Pauls any day over these TA “doublers” 💯
I’m sorry your experience was not a positive one. That was probably an older generation doubler. I know for a fact TA played mine, even sent me a video clip of him doing so. Any Chinese made flugel purchased without US quality assurance is a huge gamble. I don’t know much about Jean Paul’s quality control, but I’ve heard some also not-so-positive things about them.
I got my Doubler off eBay with the red brass bell and a Yamaha Shew mouthpiece. The deal was too good to pass up. And while the valve pads were upgraded to the PVA material, ACB responded to an email that they don't keep shop cards for the valve alignments on these flugels. So if you like your Jean Paul, consider getting a PVA done if you plan to keep it for a long time.
I got a doubler from TA and he also sent me a video of him playing it. It was a slight deal because it has a tiny blemish on the valve block, purely cosmetic. He too about $80 off for that. I like how it plays, although I find the valves finicky. If I don’t oil them frequently they freeze up completely. I don’t play the horn enough to keep the valves working.
I don’t tighten it too strongly, just enough so that the pipe won’t slide back in while I play. I don’t know where you got that idea from in this video.
I thought about making one and hacking it on. Ultimately the intonation of this horn drove me a little too bonkers and the Getzen was (a) the easiest fix to essentially all of that and (b) a SCREAMING deal.
Hello late but I can tell you its worth it. I have a brevete besson flugel I purchased for $600 (which was a steal since they general go 1k to 4k depending on condition and if its a french model or london model but the pawn shop had no idea what was in their hands lol) and I can tell you that the doubler is far better to me. It is truly an amazing flugel and worth the buck. That said if it truly is an inconvenience to save for it your best bet is looking for a good quality vintage flugel. Flugels in general are just expensive horns, they aren't as commonly played as other horns so outside of a cheap generic brand flugel you aren't going to find a beginner or entry level flugel. The doubler is a professional quality horn that isn't aimed at being a superior flugel just a professional grade flugel. With more expensive flugels you aren't going to get something better in terms of sound etc its going to be more so in how it feels to play and the ease in the upper register (potentially, more of a personal preference at this point when talking pro level horns) however a mouthpiece can simply over come those hurdles. You put a 300 dollar mouth piece on a 200 dollar trumpet it will sound like a 1000 dollar trumpet. The odds ambassador is a student horn to competes with pro horns, Lee Morgan recorded an entire album on one but I digress. I highly recommend this horn.
@@RoyMayhew-b3h Are you aware of any of the following names: Roy Hargrove, Freddie Hubbard, Clark Terry, Chet Baker, Tom Harrell, Chuck Mangione? The flugelhorn, and the soft tone traditionally associated with it, absolutely has its place in jazz. Worth noting: the piece I played in the intro clip, which prominently features famed trumpet screamers Louis Dowdeswell and Wayne Bergeron, features both of them playing very softly and gently on flugelhorn. Jazz is an extremely diverse genre, with more than enough uses for both the trumpet and the flugelhorn separately. One of the truest beauties of jazz is that there really is no single “right” answer. So I find it very bizarre when people make such a statement as what you’ve said about the trumpet being “proper” for jazz.
Just to update what I said in this video about my Doubler being on sale-she’s off the market, folks! I was lucky enough that a close friend of mine (who I’m sure will treat her well) was in the market for just what the Doubler could offer.
This is the future in Bb brass, trusted importers.
@@directcurrent5751 You’re probably right. I have complex feelings on the matter, but certain importers like John Packer, Thomann, and ACB are doing a good job. It’s just a shame to see what a shift towards that could do to the overall level of innovation in the industry, but I suppose some things are inevitable.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass think of this shift: every baby born in the ghetto can afford a musical instrument.
@@SamuelPlaysBrassRespectfully, this is a matter of economic justice. The PRC imports are predominantly almost antique trumpet and flugelhorn platforms in mass produced stencils. Time is overdue for the democratization of entry brass. Big Company doesn't get to kid us that the student cornet platform is in a revolutionary state. Importantly, there is innovation in the boutique companies and CONNglomerate professional departments, where the money is big.
I still play my doubler from years and years ago. I love how even the timbre is, even above high C it feels full and resonant
You have an earlier generation than the one I was playing on IIRC, which I think is based on the Yamaha 631G. I wouldn’t be as much a fan due to the bore being larger/less conical but I’m sure it’s a great horn!
@@SamuelPlaysBrass yeah it’s definitely based on the Yamaha. I got a 631 leadpipe and put it in the horn. Great investment. Would love to try the Couesnon inspired ones
I just received mine yesterday. This is, like you, the very first brand new brass instrument I've ever bought. I tried a 1st or 2nd generation about 5 years ago and frankly was so much like my 2310S I just could not justify spending the money. The old Yammie was made in 1981, has had the valves replaced and frankly is just pretty much worn out. It was time.
Two days of playing in, still adjusting to it. A huge plus in comparison are the valves, excellent compression and really flows between notes, whereas the 2310 needs a lot more air to get the notes to speak.
On the other hand, and not really a negative, is easy to overblow. As we are micced in performance, isn't an issue and the sound produced at higher dynamic is almost like a guitar's distortion pedal, at least to my ears. I can see where it will have it's use.
Lastly, agree 100% about the fullness in the lower register, takes sooo much less air than my old Yammie. Thanks for your review, just watched it and confirms my observations after the short time I've had it. And yes, did hit the subscribe button!
Thank you for your kind words, Perry! I appreciate you joining the club. I’ll bet the reason the earlier generations felt too similar to your 2310 to spend more money on was their larger bore. The 2310/631 are great players but are really held back by the fact that their bores are larger without compensating via a larger bell (e.g. my Getzen Eterna). ACB struck gold using the small French bore on this generation, as did Yamaha with the 635/8310/8315.
As far as your observations with your new Doubler-you lucked out on the valves. The valves on mine were merely passable. They felt overly heavy and clunky even when properly swabbed out and oiled. Also, yes, the Doubler is VERY easily overblown-I didn’t fully understand this until I got that Eterna and realized how much more of its dynamic range stayed well within control and still sounded like a flugel. Indeed, if you are not mic’d up in a performance, the Doubler is likely to either fall short or buck against you.
Still, all in all, the newer two gens of the Doubler are amazing for the price and I’m glad you are enjoying yours! Keep me posted.
@@SamuelPlaysBrassI suspect one of the things about the valves that make a difference is that I played exclusively vintage equipment up until a few months ago. I lucked into a trade on a Schilke S32 from 1995, traded a 1963 Conn 6B for it, made a few repairs and wow, what a difference! My main player is a 1969 Conn 60B which is getting sent off for valve replating.
When you are used to loose valves, and they do have their place, going to something with 100% compression is a big, big difference.
I've tried some of the old Couesnon Monopoles and the first thing I noticed were the clacky, clunky, noisy valves. These are light years better with the same thick, dark sound.
I picked up an ACB Doubler back in 2014. I needed a flugel, and it was all I had the budget for at the time. I figured I'd upgrade it later on. Previously I had owned a Kanstul CCF 925 which was a really nice playing horn, but like a dummy I sold it. In any case, I picked up the ACB Doubler, and I still use it because simply put, it does everything I need it to do. It plays so similarly to a Yamaha 631, that there's just no real reason to spend money that I don't have to spend to get something that may only be marginally "better."
I think that’s a good assessment. You had an earlier generation of the Doubler which was in fact a 631G copy. Sorry to hear you no longer have that Kanstul, though. Kanstul’s on my bucket list of flugelhorn brands to try. Not like I need to buy one, though-I sold this ACB and have been playing a wonderful Getzen Eterna 896 four-valve for the past several months.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Right - there is a small difference though - the bell is just a touch smaller. As an example, a legit 631 will fit on my K&M flugel stand without issue. The bell on the ACB is just a touch too tight. Otherwise that seems to be about the only difference. I actually swapped out the original leadpipe with a Yamaha leadpipe, and used Yamaha valve springs, which aren't quite as tight. Apparently the 631 leadpipe does not fit on the newer versions of the ACB doubler. With that said, I've heard that the current iteration of the ACB Doubler is every bit as good as the ones that preceded it. Either way, it still plays very well - it's been on hundreds of gigs at this point.
I had no idea about the bell difference. Interesting! Using a 631 leadpipe on older Doublers is a common modification, and a friend actually encouraged me to try it when I got mine, but I'm glad I didn't, given that I had the newer generation that was more similar to a smaller-bore 6310 and, as you just confirmed for me, the 631 leadpipe would not have fit.
thinking about investing in one of these horns, thanks for the informative video, also killer playing!!
Glad I could help, and thank you for the kind words!
I have their Doubler large bore cornet, it has a wonderful sound with a Denis Wick 2B. Actually, I have a Getzen Eterna flugelhorn (circa 1995), with curry magnum caps, and a Denis Wick 2FL, and it plays with a super dark and velvety sound. I have had it for almost 3 decades, so I'm really at home with it's tendances. If I was to get another, it would likely be a Yamaha 8310Z, or maybe something like an Adams.
We have very similar setups! You're talking to a fellow Wick 2B/2FL loyalist and recently-converted Getzen Eterna flugel-ist! I also would love to have an 8310Z someday, for the sake of having a small-bore model (and considering I play an 8310Z trumpet as my daily driver), but I'll admit I'd almost rather take one of the older 635 or 6315 model flugelhorns over their modern 8-series counterparts.
I bought the Dillon Rose Brass flugelhorn, which, though heavy and a bit clunky, played quite well. Carol Brass / Manchester Brass is far superior in terms of construction. I own an ACB-tweaked Manchester trumpet. Extremely high quality for the price.
Oh yes! That darn 1st line E's on those horns. Do I them in tune or my 4th line D flat? Decisions, decisions. Haha.
Epic typos! *Do I want them in tune...
Fourth-line D was definitely my biggest struggle in three years of owning this horn! It seemed there was no 'right' decision besides having a 1st slide trigger installed!
Great review, and it’s just what I’m looking for considering it’s an option I’ve been looking at for something cheap that’ll get the job done until I can find something more professional. I was wondering though, how does it play on some more classical sounding stuff like McKee’s “A Winter’s Night”?
Glad to help, Nathaniel! Thanks for watching. The reason there weren't many playing demos in this video is because I just recently posted a video (linked in the card on this one) where I put this flugel to the test against my new Getzen Eterna in several different genres, so you can listen to that to get a sense of its classical sound, but I think the ACB is great for wind band and brass band work, particularly with a mouthpiece that's on the larger side like my Denis Wick 2FL.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Silly me. I forgot about that video despite the fact that I watched it about a week ago. I suppose I was asking you to put your thoughts into words. But thanks for your reply.
High F being sharp is a normal on most instruments because of it lying on the 6th harmonic, but it’s insanely sharp on this horn, yikes. Would it be possible to have Austin customize it and install a first valve trigger?
Also something not mentioned, these things the nicest valves I’ve ever felt out of every brass instrument
I wish more flugelhorns came with a 1st slide trigger. It's something I've thought about on both this horn and my new Getzen Eterna over the past couple years. I might go on to make one for the Getzen someday, depending on how it feels to play in performance settings.
I remember commenting on one of your videos when you were younger about upper register stuff, compression, etc
My wife bought me one of these and it played so badly out of tune I returned it. I don’t buy that TA personally play tests every one of these Chinese Flugs. If he did, he never would have let the one I had be sold. After all, it is his number 1 seller. No way he would take the time to go though all the pallets of Chinese made Flugs.
I got a Jean Paul Chinese flug on Amazon for less money than one of those, and it plays in tune way better and has a great sound. I recommend one of these Jean Pauls any day over these TA “doublers” 💯
I’m sorry your experience was not a positive one. That was probably an older generation doubler. I know for a fact TA played mine, even sent me a video clip of him doing so. Any Chinese made flugel purchased without US quality assurance is a huge gamble. I don’t know much about Jean Paul’s quality control, but I’ve heard some also not-so-positive things about them.
I got my Doubler off eBay with the red brass bell and a Yamaha Shew mouthpiece. The deal was too good to pass up. And while the valve pads were upgraded to the PVA material, ACB responded to an email that they don't keep shop cards for the valve alignments on these flugels. So if you like your Jean Paul, consider getting a PVA done if you plan to keep it for a long time.
I got a doubler from TA and he also sent me a video of him playing it. It was a slight deal because it has a tiny blemish on the valve block, purely cosmetic. He too about $80 off for that. I like how it plays, although I find the valves finicky. If I don’t oil them frequently they freeze up completely. I don’t play the horn enough to keep the valves working.
@@chebachaka I've had several good dealings around Jean Paul gear and one Customer Support interaction. PRC imports all need minimal QA.
What flugelhorn are you upgrading to?
A Getzen Eterna 896-four valves, 6.5” bell flare, and lots of fun!
😁👍👍👍
Not tightening the lead tube lock strongly - it may break
I don’t tighten it too strongly, just enough so that the pipe won’t slide back in while I play. I don’t know where you got that idea from in this video.
Shame it does have a 4th valve like the Getzen
I thought about making one and hacking it on. Ultimately the intonation of this horn drove me a little too bonkers and the Getzen was (a) the easiest fix to essentially all of that and (b) a SCREAMING deal.
Still out of my budget
Haha same here $1000 dollars is just too much for me
Hello late but I can tell you its worth it. I have a brevete besson flugel I purchased for $600 (which was a steal since they general go 1k to 4k depending on condition and if its a french model or london model but the pawn shop had no idea what was in their hands lol) and I can tell you that the doubler is far better to me. It is truly an amazing flugel and worth the buck.
That said if it truly is an inconvenience to save for it your best bet is looking for a good quality vintage flugel. Flugels in general are just expensive horns, they aren't as commonly played as other horns so outside of a cheap generic brand flugel you aren't going to find a beginner or entry level flugel.
The doubler is a professional quality horn that isn't aimed at being a superior flugel just a professional grade flugel. With more expensive flugels you aren't going to get something better in terms of sound etc its going to be more so in how it feels to play and the ease in the upper register (potentially, more of a personal preference at this point when talking pro level horns) however a mouthpiece can simply over come those hurdles. You put a 300 dollar mouth piece on a 200 dollar trumpet it will sound like a 1000 dollar trumpet. The odds ambassador is a student horn to competes with pro horns, Lee Morgan recorded an entire album on one but I digress. I highly recommend this horn.
My option is too soft for jazz . Trumpet 🎺 is proper instrument for jazz .
@@RoyMayhew-b3h Are you aware of any of the following names: Roy Hargrove, Freddie Hubbard, Clark Terry, Chet Baker, Tom Harrell, Chuck Mangione? The flugelhorn, and the soft tone traditionally associated with it, absolutely has its place in jazz. Worth noting: the piece I played in the intro clip, which prominently features famed trumpet screamers Louis Dowdeswell and Wayne Bergeron, features both of them playing very softly and gently on flugelhorn.
Jazz is an extremely diverse genre, with more than enough uses for both the trumpet and the flugelhorn separately. One of the truest beauties of jazz is that there really is no single “right” answer. So I find it very bizarre when people make such a statement as what you’ve said about the trumpet being “proper” for jazz.