Hi everyone! Add to the ongoing list of inconsistencies and bad writing in a respectful manner. Side note: toxic positivity is not welcome here. Side note: don’t list reasons why Lucas was the right choice - this video isn’t about choice so much as it is about the story leading up to that choice. Side note: if you’re gonna start a fight, don’t comment. Also in the video I mention that Erin in an interview said they wouldn’t continue grieving Jack, of course that wasn’t in Episode 6 - I meant to say SEASON 6. I hope we can all look at Season 8 for what it really was: a rushed mess. If you are Team Lucas, think twice about what you’re going to comment - don’t be rude, I will delete your comment. Consider what I said in my video: the ending was satisfying for you but not for all of us. That’s an issue because we watch WCTH to feel good, not to feel cheated. And unfortunately the show didn’t make us feel good at all. Thank you.
The little Scenes, very well said & nicely put. I am with you 100%...its not about even E & L anymore, its just the inconsistency, disjointed relationship or connections between the 3 or even some of the couples...am not a writer by any means but it does smack of poor writing, as you say on the part of TPTB to end it the way it did - the actors may not have a say ! ..all on the HM Executives and BB, Crowm Media Executives! Anyway this will not go away until we will see how S 9 will pan out. Whoch is not until 2022, The true HEARTIES may not have that patience or time to wait for them to right the wrong they've subjected the Fans, esp the TN...just my 2 cents. Thank you so much for your constructive and kind words for all fans, Team N, team L or Team E or HV...Blessings and peace to you.
Nathan belongs with Elizabeth as Nathan is much like Jack in many ways. Nathan is in many ways like Jack and they are looks are looking like Jack, having a tender heart, also loving heart towards Allie in raising her up to be a responsible adult for her actons towards others.I believe the actions of Allie need to be addressed further in Season 9. Lucas is no way a match for Eliabeth as he has not any compassion for baby Jack, and has not any emotional contact Baby Jack Also doesn't any true feelings towards Elizabeth as he shows not a true meaning of love towards Elizazabeth
. The writers need to read the Janette Oke' s bbok series to see how the book series is really written for the public to enjoy. I enjoyed the book series so the public needs the television series as well,too!
@@karentabor8217 Totally agree! Thebook is why the orig show was started and then into a series...and successfully!! Its a story that cannot be replicated by moving on to anothr themes other than the "Mountie and the Teacher" its why pple like me who is old, strong spiritual values and not into TVs soapy tv shows was smitten!! HM started really good and the storylines were good family values were entrenched. You cannot change the orig book by Janette Oke into the way it is heading now coz, pple like me invested into goodness and life learning experiences theHV represented intge prev seasons ..until S 8, 180 degree turn around !!they cheapened !!the heroine and hero characters of the show! Shocking, CRUEL and inconsiderate when they knew all along that Nathan was heavily favored as end game!!All for shock value..as BB " said end game will "roll and gasp " wasn't that awful. All we wanted was a great story based on true love, and helping E find her happiness and security for her son, ...Everything they did was to divide the Hearties and create so many animosity over the writer and the TPTB...End game shd have been much clearer after 2nd N declaration ..writer shd have allowed L and E go fwd with a good storyline that was believable instead at the last minute they even portrayed L as conniving and he never professed his love to E ..so not right and then dumped N like that..not too many lines either. for Nathan ". Loser took it like a Champ" was scripted so badly....this will never be righted and pple don't trust HM - BB or JT, HM executives for that matter for allowing this to happen!! Think abt IT, what other periods shows...like this, are still around? HM Butchered Janette Oke's book!! Even if she agreed to the new direction, I believe she must be not happy with HOW the 70% HEARTIES ARE TAKING IT! my 2 cents if it counts😊
I've tried to be ok with the whole L and E scenario, but I just can't get the bad taste out of my mouth. I really can't stand the thought of L and E being together. I've went back to try to watch the scenes with E and N I enjoyed and can't enjoy them anymore because I know the final outcome. I really hate that it ended up the way it did. Why couldn't they have been kinder and brought another person for Nathan in sooner so that everyone could've been happy. I can't stomach watching anymore. I'm really sad that one of the shows I really liked is no more.
You know I just want to keep the best. The show great from season 1to 5. After😏😏 so I forgot all the scenes with the other guy. Nathan and Elisabeth were very connected and that's for me the most important. I don't want to see something else. I still feel hurt but I'm going on.
They couldn't do it. O E / N as main characters and ok. But with E / L, they risked having a new couple who would have liked more than the one chosen by the authors. And it would have been a failure for them.
Besides all the disappointing moments in the season 8, there are a few exciting scenes. My favorite ones are when Nathan told Allie that he’s going to adapt her and when she defended him before the Mounties. It made me cry. And of course the wedding of Florence and Ned was so delightful and sweet. I loved to watch their love grow during the last few seasons.
The problem as far as I’m concerned is the whole season was based on Elizabeth and Lucas. Actors were given stupid storylines just to keep them on. Why did Jesse get lost? How in the world did Ned invent the bandaid dumb? Bill and Molly could have had an interesting beginning to a possible romance. Instead we were subjected to picnics dinners early morning horse back rides and immature dialogue. I hope Paul is not gone but he too was given a dumb story line going back and forth going staying etc. if that’s the case another actor lost because of a boring couple.
Tatayana, it is always good to look for the positives in everything. Thank you for your post. It's just too bad that they are over shadowed with all the bad decisions made by the writers. Even Allie's adoption was not given the attention it deserved. The Canfields will be a joy. Rosemary and Lee are always fun and add so much to the show. But their storyline was cut short because of all the bad attitudes of mostly Elizabeth and the strife in the show. Who wants to see that? It is such a shame too because WCTH has some excellent actors and actresses. I just hate it the storylines were so disappointing.
@@normasmither202 I agree that a lot stories were not finished or dropped. It is very disappointing for viewers. I have watched all of the seasons with excitement, but I don’t know if I’ll watch the next one.
@@thelittlescenes1185 yeah! There were lots of great moments before S 8...after that, even Rosemary role as her friend was less and even said that N was noble and selfless !! I willmiss the other characters in HV and the Canfields and Mountie but not enough to aggravate myselfby watching a show that does not value the orig hero and heroine and children in the show!! Life is not abt shows that divides Pple become animated by superficial- skin deep love stories, ratings and doing things that produces animosity ...Actors are humans too and I do give them that but the total sum of the show will also affect the viewers so be it...HM. the ball is in your court!
They missed the conversation between Clara and Elizabeth the night beforeClaras wedding when Clara said tl Elizabeth that they both knew what it was like to lose someone , Elizabeths reply was how she never regretted the time she had with Jack but if she had the chance knowing what the outcome might be she would still do it again
I agree with everyone’s comments here, and I have to bring up one more ridiculous scene that had no meaning: the chair that Lee Coulter had shipped from South America. What was that all about? A silly chair that was “the most comfortable chair they ever sat in”, then Rosemary sat in in it and broke it. I know that led up to her buying some tools for Lee so he could build things as a hobby, but for me that was a pointless story line.
You are right. I forgot about it. Rosemary gave him space in the garden. I thought he will become a hobby carpenter or something like that. In the end, he wants to get mayor.
Honestly, the way season 8 ended just made so many of the earlier scenes pointless. Elizabeth saying Lucas knows me so well was another big "WAIT, WHAT" moment for me..... when did he come to know her so well as she put it??? I must have missed those scenes because I never saw them in any deep meaningful discussions about their hopes and dreams or even their joy and sorrows. (I only saw that with her and Nathan) Neither the writing nor the acting showed her falling in love with Lucas....season 8 was just one angsty mess IMO. They ruined a good thing. How do you have a character (Nathan) go through so much development and growth to then be rejected by the lead lady who then opts for someone whose first instinct is to run away whenever things don't go his way??? The original storyline of a teacher falling in love with a mountie (portrayed beautiful by Erin & Daniel) was what kept me invested in the show over so many seasons.... then Daniel choose to leave the show and they killed off his character (this was devastating and heartbreaking) but after they Introduced Nathan I anticipated that they would continue with the original storyline and everything I saw had me thinking Nathan was endgame......smh but this new storyline with the school teacher and the gambler does not appeal to me at all. Furthermore, they made Elizabeth's character unlikeable. Sorry, but I'll just stay away from Hope Valley from now on.
One more thing to add. Nathan and Lucas in the saloon as he tells Lucas she wants him. Are you kidding me? Sure I am madly in love with her. She tore my heart out but it's ok. We'll be friends. Lame! Totally lame and not believable.
@@thelittlescenes1185 When this scene happened, my husband said "that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. No guy on the planet would act the way Nathan is acting."
I don't know a man that would actually do that , even though it's chilvary and the gentlemanly thing to do , but that's story book fiction and hopeful dreaming , but in real.life a man that was in love as Nathan was with her , it would be too crushing of a blow to quickly straighten up and go see the rival.and have a " peace drink " with him and to tell him that it was always him.and not Nathan , and as the Gambler was about to run away again from.a tough situation like an immature child , Nathan consoled him and told him to not give up on het just yet ! What real man would do that ? I have never and will never use profanity nor I'll words but what they did to season 8 was just pathetic ! A school teacher and a Gambler saloon owner ! SMH !
Diana, That would never happen in a million years. They have already started the Nathan is not that upset so you shouldn’t be either charade. They know they’re in big trouble with Team Nathan and they’re already doing damage control. I don’t think they’re going to get away with it.
@@ehoffman2260 oh, they are in big trouble alright! Too many of us have sworn off WCTH bc of their ineptness and arrogance. I don't know of any other series that would or has totally disregarded the majority of their fan base. At least any that have survived!
This is SPOT ON! Thank you for your video! I agree with all of your points. Here are some additional thoughts: 1- If they knew she was going to pick Lucas, a triangle was completely unnecessary. It would make sense to give competition to the Mountie, but there is no reason to give competition to the saloon keeper. 2- The build up of the N story line (particularly with Allie) with E inserting herself in the Grant's family life now seems incredibly cruel (Christmas tree shopping, cupcakes, N's father...) it's just not believable that she was looking for Jack in those experiences. Jack did not have a daughter, nor a father. 3- E basically begged N to ask her out and when he finally did, she kicked him to the curb. Incredibly cruel for no reason, and very unlike her character prior to season 8. 4- It is just not believable that she struggled between the two men for so long. Again, unlike her independent, self-aware character prior to Season 8. 5- The dramatic Season 7 finale hug felt around the world felt devalued in how Season 8 began. It seemed like -- oh, yeah, that hug... well, Nathan's been away and Lucas has been away so we're just going to let the air out of that balloon and let it fall to the ground and die. Such an incredible scene now completely pointless. But it kept fans waiting with bated breath! 6- N and E argued and (prior to season 8) apologized. They had meaningful experiences even though they never went on ONE date. L and E, particularly L, avoided difficult conversations. The one time they argued, L was cruel. Their relationship is otherwise boring. The "Lucas knows me so well" comment was completely unbelievable. 7- When L & N had an exchange about E at the oil well, L stated, "you'd better have Elizabeth and Allie's best interested at heart" -- not Little Jack?? 8- It really bothers me that Lee's niece saw him get pick pocketed and said nothing. (The fact that the thief later put the watch back in the car resolves it? Not really.) 9- The almost dinner scene in E1 was so painful. E had no business dragging kids into her drama. This was the first of about 12 apologies E owes N from this season, yet the one apology she FINALLY gave him in E12 was hollow. You are SPOT ON to say that her grief over Jack DOES NOT excuse her self-absorbed and cruel behavior this season. 10: Her choosing L makes the following completely pointless: N and C's monologues at the depot (that was a weird scene altogether); E's "love is worth fighting for" talks with L's mother, Katie and Ned; and N telling E that love is worth fighting for. That connection between the two of them was ultimately for NOTHING. E did not tell N that she had made the same proclamation about love to others. Ultimately, E didn't have to fight for anything in choosing the saloon keeper. And N decided to stop fighting as we see in his conversation with L in the saloon. NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE. THE BUILD UP WAS FOR NOTHING. There was NO build up with E and L. He's just a handsome guy in town who also likes books and he courted her. He stood around watching her and Nathan while holding his tea cup. No risk. No sacrifice. No challenge. Boring. Putting a Mountie in the mix and trashing him repeatedly did not make the E/L relationship more dramatic or meaningful. It just makes me SO SAD. What they have done is irreparable and now unwatchable. Candles, picnics and bridges have replaced strong character and connection. This series ended with the finale of Season 7.
I really like what you wrote, in addition to the starting analysis. But I still don't understand the reason for this conclusion and if indeed there is a reason.
Yes, completely agree. If we think about it the only obstacle Lucas and Elizabeth had to overcome was Nathan- and then they decided tp throw ghost jack into the mix. Sure it might have worked if she had actually TALKED about Jack to Lucas. The only thing she said was "Not yet" when he (oh so patiently) tried to kiss her. If grieving Jack and her trauma was the reason she coudln't be with Lucas, how about have her talk to him about that? I mean, he is her lifetime right? Why the infirmary scene where they open up to each other (I analyzed that and it's a very deep incredible scene) if she isn't going to be with him?
You're so right...everything is so unbelievable and lousy scripted roles for S 8...caused so much disappointment and hurt and insult to us! No amt of redoing or redemption for S 9 will convince me to support this unwholesome theme of WCTH as it has ended.way it is!...HV no more!
@@thelittlescenes1185 Yes! Thought that was the clincher for N & E...wrong! Was Bait to keep team Nathan fans and ratings going!! They really took us for a ride!!
Totally agree with the points you made about that problematic finale & all of S8. The writers were clearly laying a foundation for an epic love story between Nathan & Elizabeth with all of the hints & foreshadowing since S6... just to flip it in the very last episode. • What was the point of Nathan being beaten up & rejected all of S8 with no 'delayed gratification'? • Why have Nathan give Elizabeth a plaque with that inspirational quote, "ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU'RE AFRAID TO DO"... if she doesn't end up taking it to heart? • Why have Nathan, Allie & Elizabeth bond while hunting a Christmas tree? ("WHEN IT'S RIGHT YOU CAN JUST FEEL IT." "How did you find the best tree in the whole forest? I DIDN'T SETTLE... THAT'S THE KEY.) • What was the point of showing their attraction with the hand touch & Christmas decorating scene? • Why have Nathan be the ONLY suitor to hold LJ or enter her home??? • Why give them callback lines like, “Let me know when you figure it out” and “What’s in your heart?” • What was the point of the KEEPER Photograph? • Why have Elizabeth encourage Nathan to ask her out by saying the only reason she went to UC with Lucas was because ‘HE ASKED’? Or her obvious disappointment when Nathan didn't ask because they were interrupted in the stables? • Why have Elizabeth tell Rosemary that when she hugged Nathan she realized she CARED for him more than she thought? (Wouldn’t THAT have been the time to say it made her think of Jack? Except that was obviously just a cop out at the very end.) • Why drag the KIDS into the middle of the triangle just to have Elizabeth cancel their family dinner date right outside of Abigail's Café? (I can still see Allie’s heartbroken face.) • Why did the writers have Nathan tell Elizabeth “I LOVE YOU” Darcy-style (and then repeat it in the Mountie office)… and make the rejection that much worse? • Why did Elizabeth ride away so EMOTIONAL from Nathan’s ‘I LOVE YOU’ confession if she wasn’t fighting strong FEELINGS for him? Why say it would HURT TOO MUCH if she lost Nathan like Jack unless she loved him too? • Why show Elizabeth choose Nathan’s hands showing they were ‘MEANT TO BE’? • Why have so many of their meaningful moments happen when Nathan wasn't wearing SERGE... if he's ultimately going to be rejected because of it? • Why can’t Elizabeth KEEP HER EYES OFF of Nathan whenever she’s talking with Lucas… whether he’s wearing his SERGE or not? • Why make a point of saying, "THE UNIFORM DOESN'T MAKE THE MAN" if it doesn't apply to Nathan??? • Why have a triangle at all if it wasn't so the audience would accept another MOUNTIE as Elizabeth's love interest? (Alfonso Moreno even said that was the reason in an interview.) • What was the point of ‘LOVE NEVER GIVES UP’ & ‘LOVE is worth FIGHTING FOR’ showing Nathan & Elizabeth’s shared beliefs about love… just for Nathan to quickly surrender in the finale & tell Lucas he always had her heart??? What about when Nathan told Elizabeth ‘I know you feel the same way I do’??? Just doesn’t add up!
They have so many excuses for what you just pointed out..but non of their excuses work. If it’s because Jack- she should’ve ended up with Nathan because that’ would mean as overcame her struggle. If it’s about no more repeated storylines- they need to stop all the Hamilton dates and I have a whole video about parallels of Lucas and Billy Hamilton. If this is about having more story to tell in the future- well you’re just bad writers if picking another Mountie means you couldn’t tell any more new stories
I agree with you!! One scene more: the scene in which Nathan apologized because of their quarrel in the woods, I mean that scene in which Nathan confessed that Elizabeth matters to him ... I am really sad Season 8 ended like it did.
@@cordula4668 Exactly.. I know Lucas has said he wants her to be happy, but (correct me if I'm wrong), I don't believe Lucas has ever said she matters to him, or that he loves her, Nathan has done both. I know E/L has said they have "fallen deeply", but they never used the L word. It's just sad the one who knows how he feels and actually proclaimed his feelings wasn't rewarded in the end. 😢
I agree with everything you h ad said. Elizabeth choose completely out of character. She was Jack's wife, a teacher and a mother not set out to be a socialite. I was married for 50 years. The relationship between Nathan and Elizabeth was a more loving relationship that would last. Her relationship with Lucas was not deep or more than a flirtation. Not well written not true. So sad.
The last thing I will say (sorry my last comment was so long, but this is short). My final conclusion after the finale is that what the show runners showed me... was that ratings mattered more to them than people... more than the people who watch the show, more than the people who act in the show and more than the characters and the stories they created within the show. That to me is the most disappointing thing of all.
I don't understand the ratings argument. Yes. They used S8 for ratings. But in their choosing Lucas and the way they did it they threw away free PR with fan videos on RUclips and disappointed the majority of their fans. They lost a lot of free support on social media. How can that be good for S9 ratings. They sacrificed S9 ratings for S8.
@@melissaatwood4792 Yep! Free PR! And they were so good and brilliant in what they did to support WCTH season's promos...they have new ones now, abt L and E..but I ignore them and am not interested!!!
@@melissaatwood4792 In all fairness, sometimes when i open youtube i see videos of lucas's fans pop up.So even if Nathan's fan don't make videos anymore,they are been replaced by other people who are really happy with the direction of the show .And i am sure Hallmark will be in "full campaign" mode for next season,BB has already started talking about the show on christians sites.
@@Aurora-ob9ix True and I expect to see more and more Lucas content. But there has always been Lucas videos. They did not get the number of viewers that the Nathan ones did (except for 1 that has 516 000 views). AND most of the Nathan ones have been removed. There were at least 7 new Nathan videos being made a week. Some days I got notifications for 4 new videos. If I recall correctly, Susan Firth was getting more than 20 000 views on her channel a day. She took them all off but has since returned 5 because of viewer request. mrsacos was making 5-7 videos a week. She has removed all but 49. The user Nebula removed their channel completely and they had some really creative videos and many viewers. The Lucas supporters have no where near what there was for Nathan viewers prior to Season 8 and that could be continuing and growing if a different choice and direction had been taken. With YTD viewer ratings down 55% Hallmark has no choice but to be in full campaign mode. Feeling that they were used for ratings in S8, many Nathan supporters refuse to watch Hallmark. Some will watch S9 but only after their viewing won't count for ratings and they know the direction taken for Nathan from show recaps. That's what happens when the majority of fans are not happy. I am interested in seeing what ends up happening ratings wise for S9. (And we didn't even touch on the loss of WCTH focused blogs and social media accounts that have been deleted or changed focus or have lost a lot of fan interaction.)
There was also a scene with Allie, when Nathan had to leave to work assignment, she was left so upset sitting on the bench. Elizabeth was talking to Lucas and saw her being so sad, by the time she decided to go talk to her, Allie was gone. I was also wondering, why they just forgot about it? Elizabeth never asked her what was going on. It seemed like she didn’t care much.
When I watched this scene, I actually cheered the fact that E didn't get to talk to Allie! I screamed at the tv " Yes, you don't get to keep messing with her feelings." It took my wife a while to calm me down. E has gone from a high society snob to a strong independent pioneer back to a high society snob. Her first marraige was for love her second will be for money. There is no love there and poor little Jack will be the ultimate loser in the whole scenario.
Little Jack will probably be sent off to school (written off the show so they can also let his day care providers go too) and then L and E can move to Hamilton or some other big city and then they can shut the whole production down. Season 9 could be the end (I hope not, but that seems to me a likely outcome). If the ratings drop like I think they will, this could be it!
I wish that Elizabeth hadn’t gotten too involved with Allie. She was too involved with the Grant Family. Especially, if she wanted nothing with Nathan. I wish she had kept it strictly professional.
Allie is a kid. Elizabeth is an adult. Elizabeth explained to Allie that she was dating Lucas. She wanted Allie to understand. However, she was too involved with the Grant Family. Giving Nathan and Allie hope that she was going to become part of the family. Elizabeth was always looking for Nathan. She didn’t just “break up” with Nathan. She “ended a relationship” with Allie too. Elizabeth said one thing and her actions were another. I wish she hadn’t gotten too involved with Allie.
That too was mean, Allie was not even mentioned after all those evasive actions from Elizabeth (..wonder if N & Allie will be more visible in S 9..way of trying to redeem their poor writing.).there were so many scenes that never got explored all bec they rushed to make the story abt E & L on E 10, 11 & 12 and in the process it was A total flop!!! unbelievable ending for the 2 !! No passion no magic or as most critics said NO chemistry bet E n L in their roles,!! Pardon me Chris and Erin, no offense to you..its just not there coz of the way they wrote your characters! Sucks big time! As viewer, HM will lose me too!
AND what about the scene where Elizabeth tells Nathen to "take off his surge" to "warm it up" LIKE WHAT! AND the scene where Nathen and Elisabeth are playing the game at the wedding and Elizabeth holds Nathans hands (thinking it was Lucas)...ALSO WHAT! AND soooooooo many other scenes...that we pretty much don't get to see with Lucas. Same with ALL the ones with Nathen and him playing with the kids and baby Jack (that we don't see with Lucas) I would have loved Nathen and Elizabeth together!!!!
@Lauren Lynn..1000th Agree why that was kept up all those nuances bet E & N ?? and if Lucas was to be end game other than to fool us, and .for ratings of course! Cruel stringing of T N fans. Imo.!!
I agree with your analysis 100%. Another thing I was disappointed about was when Elizabeth described how she had overcome the fear of losing another husband. To me she was saying that she loved Nathan. There certainly wasn’t the fear about loosing Lucas that there was about losing Nathan. Nathan’s Monty profession was so much more dangerous than Lucas’ profession. And I agree that she didn’t have the intimate relationship with Lucas she had with Nathan. We know very little about Lucas’ background. When Lucas was introduced this background seemed clandestine, nefarious. These fears were enhanced when Lucas had that mysterious telephone conversation that he tried to cover up by speaking French. On the other hand, Nathan came to Hope Valley out of his unselfish motive of protecting Elizabeth and her Son, which he demonstrated several times. Nathan was the real deal, one who you could trust. Nathan had a lot more love and concern for children, including young Jack, and the adoption of his dead sister’s daughter. I cannot accept Elizabeth’s final decision to marry Lucas; it came out of the blue. Elizabeth’s or Lucas’ actions in Episodes led up to that decision.
You are 100 % correct but they ( producers & writers ) will never admit this ! They blew it and they know they did and for an overwhelming 70 % of fans are disappointed with what they did with the storyline , it's unbelievable !
thank you so much for making this video! Something that really bothered me about this season was how they had lucas and elizabeth get together and start courting but they were still like almost indicating that nathan still had a chance or that elizabeth was still feelings things for nathan. Then suddenly the end of the season comes and they have a dramatic break up of lucas and elizabeth for them to just get back together literally a matter of hours later. What was the point of that? What was the point of lucas saying he knew that elizabeth cared about nathan if she supposedly all along loved lucas and was just confused? Even if she was confused I feel like she would have shown more affection and attraction to lucas than she did. If they were going to pick lucas than they should have just made that choice once. Just have her end up with Lucas and leave it that way. We didn't need the drama and the break up and the whole ''i love you, but I'm not in love with you'' speech. Like you kept on saying, bad writing. Something else that really bothered me was that Rosemary says ''some people come in your life for a season, some people for a reason, and others for a lifetime. Jack was your season and now you need to decide who is your reason and who is your lifetime'' and then elizabeth precedes to say that nathan is her reason and that he was there to teach her some lessons. But what lessons did Nathan teach her? What did she learn from her conversations or time with him? Certainly not how to be a nicer person cause personally I've never seen Elizabeth so cruel and insenstive in the 8 years that I've been watching WCTH. And it isn't how to move on from Jack. Cause first off, if she loved Lucas HE would be the one to help her move on from Jack and let go of him. And second, she already had. We had already gone through the healing process. You can see in even the 6th season she was already starting to heal and move on. I think everyone can agree that she had let go of Jack until they threw that random reasoning behind why she didn't pick Nathan. And it wasn't to make her realize her love for Lucas cause if they hadn't put Nathan in the story to begin with she wouldn't have had this whole love triangle drama and she would have just simply fallen in love with Lucas and that would have been it. There are so many things that i could go on and on about this season that just drove me to the brink of like tears out of frustration, but I just don't have the time. But seriously I've been watching WCTH since season 1. I am 16 years old right now so that is literally half of my life. It shocked and crushed me when Jack was killed off and when I heard that they were bringing in Kevin McGarry's character on I immediately fell in love with him and was actually excited for season 6 even tho i had promised vehemently that i was not going to watch it after Jack's passing. Anyhoo, long story short, there were sooooo many holes in this season and I don't think I'll be back for season 9.
Agree with everything you said! There was so much that only worked with a Nathan choice. I was Team Elizabeth coming into S8 but the writing, even though she was dating, I dont even say courting, Lucas, moved me to be Team Nathan and I no longer even care who Elizabeth dates or what Elizabeth does. They ruined the Lucas character for me back in S6 E8, that horrible saloon episode where he claimed to be the hero after nearly getting everyone killed and Nathan, Bill & Elizabeth saved them. Now they have totally ruined the Elizabeth character for me. Ruined the series for me, too with such chaos.
@@henrymacangus9053 Yeah, I totally know what you mean. Elizabeth wasn't even an enjoyable character to watch this season. And has everyone just forgot about everything that happened when Luas first showed up in town?? Like that French woman he kept talking to on the phone and the money that he had stashed away some where. What happened with all that??
@Miss Dream I so agree with you! It really hurt me and affected me the way they wrote the storyline, characters and the theme of WCTH ...which is the Mountie & Teacher...orig Janette Oke book. You are young but smart and sensitive to appreciate this tv series..unlike me am grannie oldie, and am not tv watcher orig. but did love this WCTH - when accidentally i discovered it last yr on Neflix, Covid time. Being marooned at home! so clean, good wholesome show and heartwarming period story of 2 NOBLE PROFESSIONS!! Like the fact that kids are good mannered and taught by E so well in her prev role, prev seasons UNTIL fiasco unbelievable disappointing S8 changed the direction and divided Fans...so wrong ... have not watched E 12 coz from the clips here and there I dont think I can take it. Will not support WCTH anymore as long as Saloon- Gambler and Teacher turned author will be sidekicks or theme of the series! Thev will lose most pple like us who are principled and hate being fooled and they think that we are stupid ..Team Lucas fans keep on saying we're pathetic and have no life..."get over it already " attitude from BBird, HM network and even some casts!, seem disrespectful and demeaning to say the least !!
Oh I read something about that - Tinker said he didn't even notice that until Erin and Chris pointed it out...that's funny right! And then he said it was because he's being an "appropriate suitor" which doesn't work at all: since like people have said a school teacher would never even date a saloon owner, if we're gonna go down the "Appropriate" rode
It’s because of Jack I think.. They never talk about serious things just superficial. It’s why I don’t buy in to them as a couple. They never talk about Jack either.
I agree with everything you pointed out. I have many issues with season 8, although most of them would have been minor, if she had chosen Nathan in the finale. Mainly because by choosing Lucas, so many other things don't make sense. Majority of the clues/foreshadowing pointed to Nathan, despite her courting Lucas. Like you said, even many Team Lucas thought she would choose him. These are some of the questions I have: •Why did Nathan get scenes with Little Jack and not Lucas? He even offered to go out as a family rather than as a date, so he could spend time with her. Lucas didn't extend the same grace on their first date. •Why did Nathan tell Elizabeth he was in love with her twice, and both times she didn't say how she felt? The "triangle" could have been resolved in episode 2, instead they dragged it on until the final episode. • Why was there a theme of not giving up, and love is worth fighting for, if that didn't have any significance for Nathan? • Why did they drag a child (Allie) into the triangle and have to break her heart as well? She should have been left out of it. • Why was Elizabeth giving advice about "our greatest risk is possibly not experiencing our greatest joy", if her greatest risk of loving another Mountie would mean nothing? • What was the point of the Jack/Nathan connection if Nathan wasn't her lifetime? That was a cruel storyline to bring in, something that has caused him so much guilt, and there was no benefit from it. • What was the point of the hand holding game where they're suppose to find the man they're "meant to be with", if she wasn't meant to be with Nathan? • Why did they have Nathan and Elizabeth hold hands in the wedding episode but not Lucas and Elizabeth? • Why was Nathan in her house, and she helped him put on his serge, all the while avoiding/being awkward around Lucas, if she really loved Lucas? • Why would Lucas have to break up with her in order for her to see she was in love with him? • And like you said, why does she have to break up with Nathan in the finale when she was never with Nathan? • Elizabeth trying to find Jack in Nathan was a cop out, last minute excuse for their decision. It was a slap in the face for Nathan, and an insult to Team Nathan, because apparently we're not intelligent enough to know when someone is in love, and isn't projecting their feelings for someone else onto them. • Nathan saying that her heart was always with Lucas was completely contrary to everything he has said and done all season, completely out of character, and not believeable at all. • What was the point of all the character development for Nathan, and lack thereof for Lucas, if Nathan wasn't going to be the leading man? • Why did Elizabeth and Nathan have all the deep conversations and not Elizabeth and Lucas? • What was the point of the plaque with Emerson quote, and the "it's a keeper" picture from previous seasons? • Why is Nathan the only one that's been inside her house and not Lucas? I could go on and on. But ALL of these questions would make sense if she had chosen Nathan. So the only explanation that makes sense is that Nathan was supposed to be end game, and toward the end TPTB decided to change the course of the show. But by that point they should have accepted that it was too late, instead, they made the worst decision in WCTH history.
You said this so well! My question is why did they flip the script? I know they say they made it so you could pick either guy, but the story wasn’t told that way. If they know most if the fan base wanted Nathan why did they go against that? We may never know.
@@beckymaiden3039 Well apparently they (by they, I mean Brian Bird) thinks the show can run longer (more seasons) if they go with Lucas, and they separate the teacher/Mountie storyline. In other words, they don't think their writers are creative enough to write a blended family storyline for an extended amount of time. But that still doesn't explain why they wrote the season the way they did. The only thing I can think of why they would change the script so late, is maybe Kevin told them he didn't want to renew his contract when it's over, and this was the best option for both Kevin and Chris.
Elly C I have said a few times that the only way it makes sense for them to sabotage this show this badly is if Kevin had planned to leave the show because this was definitely heading for a Nathan/Elizabeth ending.
@@patriciak5702 That's not even a good excuse IMO, they would have known that way before filming the finale. That might be a good reason why they chose Lucas, but not for the way that they wrote this entire season.
I LOVED YOUR VIDEO! YOU ROCK! My biggest issue of them all is Ft. Clay... that story line was POINTLESS unless they ended up together. Also the FACT that Erin and Kevin pushed that story line in season 7 because they knew it would be something epic and complex to overcome makes it even worse that Erin allowed (assuming she had power in the decision as a producer) that to become insignificant. It didn't change how Jack died, she would have gotten over Jack dying eventually without ever knowing Nathan or the fact that Jack took his place, it had no weight in her overcoming anything UNLESS they ended up together. This was a HUGE oversight in my book. Secondly Allie, they were so careless with her and her feelings and her involvement with Nathan and Elizabeth. If they weren't the end game they should have had her as much more oblivious to their love story than she was... how they treated her in this and ending things with the impeccable line was simply NOT OKAY. AT ALL, it probably left a worse taste in my mouth than anything else. I agree with the fight for love theme completely falling flat. Borrowing Jack and Elizabeth's "love is patient" theme for Lucas and Elizabeth when it was everything BUT for Lucas and how he handled things was also wrong. Also having Nathan bring up love to Elizabeth not one but two times and saying "this is why I'm trying so hard not to show you how I feel about you" during Bill's thing... and NOT having him be the man she chooses... just made him all sorts of vulnerable that was unnecessary and painful to watch. It made him not only MORE vulnerable to E and her rejection of him (where as Lucas would have not had that sort of sting if she chose Nathan) but also it left him vulnerable to Lucas (his insecure jabs at Nathan were indicative of this... what was the point of that). All the previous scenes of E helping with the tree, E helping with the sleep over, N holding Jack for her, all 4 of them walking hand in hand in town for the never date, etc... all trying to hint toward a future family life also no longer make sense and lose all their meaning because of season 8. NEXT, It was unbelievable for E to make a HUGE life decision when she was conflicted the days before, wasn't able to take her rings off before and she was under a lot of stress with her school... any real person would not have done all that in a matter of hours and had confidence and clarity to move forward (also a real person wouldn't have stormed in and broke up with Nathan when they weren't dating but sat down and had a conversation about all that had transpired)... the speed at which everything went down and crumbled and switched in season 8 combined with the unrealistic "finding jack in you" line and the "her heart was always with you line" which could NOT have been farther from the truth... made her final decision so unbelievable that most the fans felt punched in the gut. A GOOD finale would have brought both teams to a place of acceptance EVEN if their guy wasn't the end game and to a place where moving on felt natural... instead we feel stifled, robbed, shocked, and unable to move forward. And then just the idea that a surprise ending was better than any story they could possibly tell was just bachelorette level cheap... if she had truly been working on herself for 3 years, and overcoming her fears for 3 years, and seeking love in healthy ways this would not have come down to a finale like this... we would have been led away from one man and into the acceptance of the other man... this did not happen. Both men were led on to the last second and it felt like a reality TV show reveal. Also the majority of fans were NOT rolling on the floor gasping but sitting on our couches, eye brows pinched together, jaws open saying "what the crap just happened, what am I watching?!"... 3 weeks later we still can't make sense of it. So as you pointed out SO wonderfully... the finale told no coherent story, completed no story, did not allow for redemption, was not fair to their main characters, did not bring fans to acceptance, did not bring closure to the last 3 years, did not continue themes from season 6 and 7 and so much more. The Canfields and the Colters are so lovely, but now I don't trust the show to take care of them, my trust in their ability to care for their characters and their stories is gone, ratings are all that matter.
Well said. The writers have destroyed WCTH. After watching WCTH since Season 1, then watching (with nausea) the writers turn Season 8 into a shallow Soap Opera with little resemblance to the book, or the stories and characters I had come to appreciate in previous Seasons of WCTH. I have absolutely no desire to watch Season 9. This series could have been so much more. There were a myriad of wholesome and satisfying stories that could have been told. At this point, WCTH is beyond redemption. There is nothing to entice me to watch Season 9.
Nancy, For some reason I am just now seeing this comment for the first time, and after reading it, it really brought home how much damage they did to Elizabeth’s character this season. When the season started, so many of us were truly hoping to see Nathan and Elizabeth together as a couple, and now in just one season, I can’t even imagine a scenario where I would like to see them together. It is truly sad how they chose to portray Elizabeth this past year. Hope you’re doing well.
Thank you I am doing well my granddaughter was married this weekend then it was beautiful aside from that totally agree with everything that you said it would be difficult to watch Elizabeth Knicks season don't know whose idea it was to change her character so drastically it was a huge mistake and still agree that Nathan is definitely too good for her I hope they bring on someone who is lovely and kind and deserves to be with Nathan and Allie you take care also
The one thing that no one has mentioned in the disjointed season is if infact Lucas is Elizabeth's "lifetime" why have they not said those three beautiful words "I LOVE YOU". Elizabeth at least said love to Nathan. Just not the way we had hoped. Just my opinion.
And Nathan told E he loved her multiple times. I sure hope Elizabeth spends season 9 apologizing to everyone in Hope Valley who she treated so poorly. I lost so much respect for her.
The writers got what they wanted - great ratings. But the reason for those ratings was the over 70% polling for Nathan. We watched hoping to see a Nathan and Elizabeth endgame. The writers betrayed our trust, and left a bitter taste for the WCTH series. Bird said they are developing a creative path for WCTH; Nathan will have a place in Hope Valley; but he will mourn in beginning episodes of Season 9. So, they plan to throw Nathan a bone! Why would Nathan fans want to see him mourn? That’s just being more cruel. This will not justify the disaster they made of Season 8. I will NOT WATCH a show that gives a pass to, or rewards people for bad behavior and lack of integrity and personal character. I have been a fan since Season 1; and I will NOT WATCH a Lucas and Elizabeth phony and forced relationship. There’s ONLY ONE WAY for the writers to salvage the WCTH Season 8 disaster. After the Season 7 ending embrace of Nathan, Elizabeth was in shock. Carson gave her a sedative. She is ASLEEP, having a NIGHTMARE; and taking us along for the ride. Nightmares are illogical. Season 8 was illogical. How else could you explain Elizabeth’s bizarre, illogical, hypocritical, and self-centered Season 8 behavior? In Season 9 Elizabeth wakes up and we see: 1) Elizabeth and Nathan navigate their budding relationship; 2) the trials & struggles of Hope Valley new & old characters; and 3) Lucas successfully managing his two businesses. However, I do not think this salvage scenario will happen. As one Heartie put it, Elizabeth flirted with and chased Nathan in Season 6 and 7 like a “HEAT SEEKING MISSILE”. For her to just now realize Nathan’s job is dangerous; or he reminds her of Jack is illogical. Every minute of every day the saloon is open, Lucas and the patrons are subject to fist fights, gunshots, hostage situations, stabbings, kidnappings, and robberies. We have seen some of this. And Nathan came to the rescue and saved both Lucas and Elizabeth. WCTH was a wholesome family show. What we got in Season 8 was giving a pass to bad behavior and bad family character values. Elizabeth was: a) lashing out at her best friend Rosemary, b) not following her own advice that she gave to others, c) publicly accusing and shouting at Nathan, d) demeaning Nathan for not attending a parent-teacher conference, and e) just plain arrogance and cruelty. Lucas falsely accused Nathan of pressuring Elizabeth. He told Elizabeth Nathan did not like crowds at Christmas, when Nathan actually said at Christmas time crowds are nice. Lucas gave Elizabeth Allie’s adoption gift to make himself look good; when he could have given the gift to Nathan. He was always spying on Elizabeth and Nathan when they were talking. There’s something wrong with that type of character. Nathan is a good, honest, helpful, and caring man. He told Lucas he would always have his back. He showed character and class by saying to Lucas not to sell the saloon and not to leave town - as Lucas did after the Season 7 ending embrace. When Lucas can’t get his way, he is the “pick up my toys and go home” type of person. Again, what type of character is this? Season 9 will not be on my radar. Good Bye When Calls The Heart!
Adding to the type of person Lucas was... his own mother said something along the lines of..You're not the settling down type... I think this was sometime in the beginning of season 8.
Mary, From what I have read, you are going to have a lot of company on the sidelines. I find it comical that Bird said Nathan will have a PLACE in Hope Valley. It is my belief, that if you could get an accurate poll, it would show that Nathan is the most popular character on the show at this point. I would tune in to season 9 if I found out that Nathan was going to be the lead character and they were going to put the supposed great love story between Elizabeth and Lucas on the back burner for awhile, but I think they are too stubborn to do that because then they would be admitting that they misjudged the fan base and I believe they are too arrogant to do that.
Truthfully, I almost didn't read because it was long. I apologize for that. As I read it, I found that I'm glad I did. I agreed with every point. They've lost me solely due to such a poorly done entire season. What a disappointment.
@@ehoffman2260 Hear! Hear! But I believe they think we'll all keep watching because Nathan is the most beloved character. Sorry. I can watch Kevin McGarry on Heartland.
The art of good storytelling for WCTH should have been the building of the characters and the arc to a satisfying conclusion for the three in the triangle. Fans were very invested in the characters and wanted to see a HM story. Instead, we got a disjointed illogical season 8 and a disaster of a finale that left TN gutted. This video does a good job of highlighting the lack of consistent story telling. But, the real problem now is thatvthe show has lost a majority of their fan base. Will they come back by February? I don't know but from the passion of disgust on SM, I would say no. And the question... why would a show ignore the majority of their fan base. I watched the Friends reunion and the writers discussed how they made sure the fans got what they wanted and they listened to them. The secret to success. That should have been done with WCTH.
WCTH also had interviews in the time of season 5 and spoke emphatically about giving fans what they wanted (a marriage between Jack and E).....before Daniel left the show. Now there is no talk about pleasing the fans. Just “trust us”. ...... well we DID trust them all of AWFUL season 8, hoping that E’s odd behavior was just caused by fear and of course, OF COURSE, she would overcome it. The ending was a huge breach of trust....
Amen! So basically the writers and the producers don’t care about the majority of their fan base, they just cared about the ratings… 😒😒. Maybe that’s cruel to say, but that’s the way I’m seeing it.
Mutual consultation , to respect the views and the loyalty of the long time fans , and to listen to them.and to not get angry because of the backlash after the finale , that's not good business nor practical because , maybe it's your show but without the fan base , there is no show ! People invested time ( years faithfully following ) energies and of themselves to turn in religiously each Sunday evening to watch another episode of Miss Oke's books turned into tv reality , but to.ignore the 70 % because you can., then mutual consultation is then tossed into the waste can ! To ignore the fans it's difficult to understand !
I totally agree with u whole my whole heart.They really could have done a better .My heart was broken and still is. I don't think I will be watching this show anytime soon.
What do you think of the annoying dialogue that takes place on the evening of the parent-child meeting. And it's offensive to Nathan in a really pointless way and with no excuses or reasons. She treats him as a poor ignorant who is unable to follow Allie's (tutor) school developments. Then again she allows herself to teach him the lesson on how a father must behave to be an example for his daughter (as if he was not already an exceptional father). Elisabeth thinks about what example you will be for your son? And speaking of the interaction between LJ and Lucas, Covid is a new lie of the production, otherwise why does Lucas' mother hug him, only to tell us that it would be the grandmother? An unnecessary and unreasonable risk. I just hope people don't have any illusions about the future of the series because there will be only more disappointments.
Just thinking they went out of their way to show what a perfect choice Nathan would be, strung the fans along and then ended a weird, disjointed season, where the main character was so out of character, in an even weirder way... I just can't waste my time anymore when I'm just used for ratings. It's just left such a bad feeling in me. It was such a great show for so many seasons. BTW, when Elizabeth is married to someone other than a mountie, can it still be said it's based on Jeanette Oke's WCTH? It's like making Laura Ingalls Marry someone other than Almanzo Wilder. It doesn't add up.
The entire season 8 was so unrealistic, WCH. Soap opera writers. No way would Nathan been so calm, at the end going to Lucus to help him? Not watching season 9. As far as I am concerned it ended at season 7
Joel, the show we appreciated really did end with season 7. Season 8 was so poorly written it was shocking. I suspect I won’t be watching season 9 either.
I find it amazing that Erin released a video about 2 weeks prior to the finale asking everyone to accept Elizabeth's choice! If the writers had done their job everyone would have seen it, understood it and been prepared for it even if they didn't like it! The writers were going for shock value abandoning the on screen story like we are so gullible and blind to not know we were used for ratings....they have received their last viewer rating as far as I'm concerned. They could have made both characters and teams happy but knew they couldn't get the ratings if she had chose Lucas early on....so they went on with false hope and clues keeping Nathan fans tuning in....only to crush him in the end AFTER he'd already been through the wringer the whole season! What the writers, producers and ptb pulled was uncalled for, unwanted and unacceptable!
Another thing is- that you shouldn’t shock viewers like that in the last episode. Have them get together in episode 9 and then let us see Nathan move on to something better or something like that. They just dragged it out for ratings and as a result,t they won’t get the same ratings the next season
How could we accept the finale. We have been fooled. Producers probably asked her to convince team Nathan, to continue to watch the show. She, as a Co producer, had a responsability on the final choice. However I won't condamn her. She's doing what it was asked her. But so much no senses, an awful chronology on the facts... Still so many inconsenties. Too much scenes not finished and I don't that will change. Anyway I'm done with WCTH.
You are right on all accounts!!! I’ve been a fan since the pilot but won’t be watching Season 9. The writers and producers knew that Nathan was more popular than Lucas but what they failed to realize was that Nathan is more loved than Elisabeth. Not sure how they can recover from this mess!
So true - this Season they made her so unlikeable that people started liking Nathan more, know why? Because he actually behaved like a decent respectful human.
Very true! Developing Nathan like end game..why ratings was high! Coz Everyone thought it would be Nathan even Lucas thought so and some T L as well...Team Nathan fans rooted for him since S 6 to S 7 up to mid S8..superb acting by Kevin. They could have cont'd with orig Mountie and Teacher and paired and Lucas with Fiona , more believable...tsk, tsk...epic failure by writers.
Its a backlash now seemingly more against the E character....too bad coz professionally, EK has to redeem herself in other HM showsso to speak...noticed Marcus Rosner, Charles in S 1 - 5 has been in a lot of HM movies lately wirh other actresses...hope Kevin McGarry gets more other offers aside from seemingly" fallen WCTH tv series "..WCTH as it is now, . Will or can't compare to the Downton Abbeyish show in longevity (as per BB - trying to compare it) .. Sad.
It seemed so fake, it just seemed so immature. Are the writers without the real feeling of love? It was so disappointing. Elizabeth lost that loving feeling.
Adding on... The scene that Nathan and Lucas were wiping the slate clean was not impressive to me. There was no closure at all for me. I didn't want them to become friends in the very episode Elizabeth breaks his heart... That defeated Nathan look disturbed me. The broken heart face made me cry and I wanted to jump through the screen and hug him so hard! If anything, that scene only pissed me off even more because I know it was forced. Brian Bird could argue that anything that should have happened with Elizabeth and Lucas this season will happen next season... Ok... Well, that'll all depend if I tune in to watching the next season. Especially after this rushed, uncharacteristic, weird, deeply, inconsistent season... I'm sorry, but I don't think so Mr. Creator/writer. That apology to Nathan from Elizabeth was so wrong. I feel like Nathan should have said something to her instead of just being silent through the whole thing. He talks about fighting for her. Where was the fight in that scene? Was he just simply defeated? I'm so sorry.... Ugh! Well I'm so sorry that I ever looked up to you about your friendship values. Yes, you lost your husband. We all mourned with you, Elizabeth! I did! For months!!!! It does not give you the right to treat people badly and not make up for it. It is human to take things out on people. It happens. It is not human and not in your character to hold such a grudge or not really apologize and then make up for it. I feel like Elizabeth's character was just so rushed and mean. When Allie tore up that invitation to dinner, yeah, I'd do it too. That even never got resolved. Why was everything coming up Nathan when it did a complete 180 at the very last episode? This is why love triangles are not good, and I hate them with a passion! It splits your audience. Your audience fights. Instead of focusing on what's good about the show, it's a huge contest. 70%?????? If you want an audience that's going to love a show, don't make them fight! Don't put in a love triangle! They are so lame! Adding depth to characters is a good thing, but when you have all these story lines trying to clash with one another, it makes the story confusing and you can't even keep up. Another thing that felt rushed to me was something that didn't even have anything to do with the triangle... Was that explosion??? I totally thought it was going to be like the flood episodes way back when Jack got caught in it. Uh yeah no... Fixed in what 6-7 minutes give or take a couple minutes??? What the frack?? That whole promo was about that accident! And they fixed by what? Five minutes after the intro? Come on!! I remember saying... Well that was quick. Lol! I'm sorry for talking ears off, but all in all, this season is not what When Calls the Heart to me. Again, it's not just because she chose Lucas. Its a huge part, but the inconsistencies now that I think hard about them, the noncharacteristical things that were said and done make my head spin. What the crap happened? Everything that I loved about this show is now gone. Everything that made this show what it was, what it stood for, is now gone. As of right now, I am not tuning in to season 9. Nathan, I'm sorry you got screwed over. I love you! We all do! As of right now, elizabeth doesn't deserve you. You deserve better! Lucas, I could have loved you if there was just more depth, more communication. If team Nathan could have learned to love you the way we love Nathan, things would be different. We wouldn't feel so cheated. But here we are.
I agree! I also dont understand why there were no consequences for Lucas from the explosion. Henry told him not to do it, he did it, people could have died, but Henry and the group were the heroes, then nothing... Lucas is like Mr. Teflon, he did all kinds of weird, underhanded, controlling, manipulative things and he never had to answer for any of it. I am not interested to watch any more of that!
@@juliannestory2383 I respect that you don’t agree with me. I won’t take it back though. That is how I feel and that is how I’m analyzing this season. I only ask that you respect it.
Here is where the writers went right. *Adding the CANFIELD family and bringing a pastor back to HV. * NED AND FLORENCE relationship and marriage * ALLIE'S adoption and NATHANS Fort Clay revealed *Building up opportunity for Bill and Molly That's about it. I can say all the other story lines were choppy and some IMO were unnecessary (hello, why waste precious airtime minutes on Christopher and Rachel they were a distraction from so many other stories that needed more this year.) The Triangle was not even a triangle and they could have EASILY fixed all this if they would have done so episode 4. And then there wouldn't be the IMO awful innocent bystander (Allie) just as hurt by it. I don't plan to watch next year. I don't trust the writers to redeem any of these stories. Carson and Faith - a mess Henry and Abigail-- too many ??? Jesse and Clara- gone but having not really fixed anything Hickham and Fiona? Way too vague. Rosemary and LEE STILL DONT HAVE A FAMILY STARTED! and last.... Nathan the man who is just continuing to get kicked while he is down ... Yeah, this is an easy choice for me. Hard pass on enduring more soap opera drama. I want all the feels back. And they just overall DID NOT DELIVER.
Too much drama. Also Allie’s adoption storyline failed too in my eyes cause they never gave us closure on that. They’re gonna bring it up in season9 and make it really dramatic...I just can’t
@@thelittlescenes1185 I agree that the storyline was cut off, but I'm glad it finally happened. I have ZERO desire to see if they do right by Nathan and Allie in S9. I'll say one thing for JOHN T. He and his team did a fabulous job making me love Nathan's character even more than I already did at the end of S7. SAD he took the same opportunity to reduce him down to a ghost of Jack. And that's the rub. Make me love someone's character even more and then REALLY kick him when he is down.... Now that makes me angry. You just don't so that to a character. Also. Been thinking about this more since I first posted. I listened to ALL the interviews and everyone said it would make sense..IT JUST DOESNT. ALSO I get the need to "cliffhanger" and leave people wanting more, but I DONT get why they would think a huge portion of the viewers would WANT to come back and see how they treat a beloved character after that traumtic conclusion. the only "feels" I had after the finale was confusion and gut punched. NOT What I expect from the HALLMARK CHANNEL!
The whole season ended up being a bad experience. I’ve watched plenty of shows and movies that didn’t end the way I’d hoped. Watching S8 was on different level of unpleasant. So many of us hung in there for Nathan, only to see him repeatedly done dirty by the writers. Worst of all was the deceptive marketing and post season gaslighting. I have no interest in the damaged character of Elizabeth, she is weak, shallow and unlikeable now.
👏👏👏 I agree, season 8 has damaged Elizabeth’s character in such a way that I had a really hard time watching her scenes... and this is not good because she is the lead lady. I kept holding on believing that she was behaving in this manner because of her fears (falling in love with another Mountie knowing the risk that came with the job) but based on the finale, there was no fear, and if that was the case then why was she acting out? Why the change in her character? Just mean and unpleasant to Nathan, Allie and even her BFF Rosemary. Then to have her choose L over a wonderful family man who is selfless when it comes to those he loves, one would have been the ideal father figure for little Jack, creating such a beautifully blended family... it just baffles and disappoints me. I cannot watch her anymore, I have zero interest in her character now and zero interest in watching her with Lucas. I’m afraid the damage for me is irreparable.... I will not invest even a second of my time in WCTH anymore. I’m done!!The story I fell in love with was the school teacher and the Mountie and if you’re going to change that story line then do it in a way as to get everyone onboard with your choice... not constantly kicking the Mountie to the curve when he did nothing wrong and then ending without him getting any form of reward. It’s just too much for me. I will support Kevin McGarry in other projects, but I’ll never return to Hope Valley, next season or any other season. The show has just lost its appeal to me
After such an unpleasant season,the question now is how many people will really learn from this debacle ? I'm so surprised to see the execs and the cast guilt the viewers into watching the show and calling people who are not happy close minded or trolls,i am really astonished by that.It's like you own a store and you decide to launch a new product and the sales are not good,so you go on social media and say that the customers don't a know a good product when they see it,they are close minded,they should be happy to have that and they will regret it, i didn't do intensive marketing studies but i'm not sure it is the right thing to do.Even if you truly believe in your product and it has a real potential,it is better to not insult the customers. I wonder after expressing frustration,anger and all the emotions people are feeling,how many will be in front of their tv next season ? People are saying that the network and the execs don't care,maybe it is because the viewers have shown they can be disrespected and manipulated and it will be fine. Maybe those who are still planning to watch need to change the way they interact with the show because something like this could happen again in the years to come.By reading some comments on various places,i had the feeling that people were not free to think for themselves,it's like the viewers have been given a guideline and they have to stick with it no matter what they see or feel.I wished people will leave the cult mentality that have been imposed on them,you can love a show without acting like your life depends on it.
YES THANK YOU!!! Phrases like "true hearties" or "I wish you would trust us" are so creepy. We are customers and you're right it's not a good idea to insult your customer when he doesn't like the product. We can decide for ourselves whether we trust the showrunners to create a season 9 we want to watch...right now most of us have lost that trust
I have attached stand by my word if it continues like that I'm out it was a mistake writer humble you self and make the necessary changes it is possible to change the scene for next season alot of scenes were left hanging and it was like we were viewing a different show
I love your point about the cult mentality. Sadly, I believe that the hearties have turned into a cult over the years. Just based off of Krakow and Bird's behavior alone, I can see that they have been leading this cult for quite some time now. Whether or not it started as a cult, I do not have the answer on that, but I do know that I had yellow flags about Krakow's character when I started interacting with the hearties on twitter. I tried to give Krakow the benefit of the doubt, but something about Krakow just did not sit right with me. Now, Krakow is being forced by the CEO to follow her own agenda. Quite ironic if you ask me.
@@amriddle8 Well, call it the " unwholesome cult"it has become then. I refuse to be a follower and I will not give them the satisfaction, to follow S9 even if Kevin n Allie continues to be there - albeit as a 2ndary lead to the E & L ...so undeserving new storyline! Am done.
Remember when Allie ripped the invitation card and idk if I remembered well but didn’t they never make up for that. They’re going to do with Allie what they did to Georgie during Lou and Peter’s divorce, move on with friends. She’ll probably end up with Robert and forget all her unresolved issues with E.
This whole season seemed to be about showing that Nathan is NOTHING like Jack. They frequently took him OUT of the serge to show Nathan the Man, not Nathan the Mountie. That scene in the jail........... it was ridiculous. Absolutely horrible writing, because there was nothing developed in the L&E relationship. Whereas N&E had a lot of development. I don't understand it.
I am so extremely saddened and upset with the storyline of season 8. They took a wholesome show that I was always looking forward to seeing the following season and filled it with incohesive scenes that made it feel more like you were watching a soap opera than a heartwarming family show. I agree with the analysis of inconsistencies and a lot of the comments already shared. I will endeavor to mention some different issues. I could be wrong but to me this seemed to be the first Hallmark single parent series where the single parent wasn't taking into account how the perspective father was around their child / children. We are given the excuse it was because of Covid or scenes not used like the little dog. Nathan from the very beginning showed to easy going and had natural interactions around Little Jack. From the very moment he offered to hold Little Jack to give Elizabeth a break from holding him at the Christening and then giving him funny faces to get him to laugh was so endearing and spoke volumes of the type of man / father like qualities he had. Lucas on the other hand was teaching Allie how to gamble and do card tricks. Allie used this to trick the other kids. Not the role model most people would want their kids to follow. Jack while alive didn't like living in the saloon so he slept in the jail. Jack built the schoolhouse to get the children out of the saloon as their classroom. Now the saloon could become Little Jack's playground? Elizabeth was upset with the saloon hours keeping Little Jack awake in the beginning. Now she's so self absorbed in her own interest this no longer matters? Nathan has continued to playfully respond and initiates moments with Little Jack, naturally stooping down to him as shown in analysis or reaching out for his finger when they have the scene with petting Newton. With Lucas whether in the bunny scene, the library with the book, or between the Mercantile shelves, Lucas looks uncomfortable around him. Elizabeth is positioned between Lucas and Little Jack. Nathan how he worked with Robert on his desire to become a Mountie and convinced him to finish school was admirable. Elizabeth character has become "The Material Girl" Grand gestures, flattering and book deals will get you dates and lustful kisses. Love can be bought. She encourages Nathan to ask her out because that's why she went to UC with Lucas because he asked and when they finally go with children also, they run into Helen the editor ( the book deal) and Elizabeth suddenly gets sick and the dates off. Then in ep12, she sees the manuscript ( the book deal )and that when she finally takes her wedding ring off. From painstakingly taking off her wedding ring to the over the top kisses on the bridge and then at personal book reading with all those candles. It didn't seem believable that she had trouble letting go to move that passionately so fast. Also what is up with all the candles. Wasn't that a Jack thing. Looks contradictory to seeing Jack in Nathan when she was doing it to Lucas as well. The seeing Jack in Nathan was so lame an excuse. She's dancing with Lucas and she's staring Nathan down with longing in her eyes as he is leaving the reception looking dejected. He wasn't in his serge then. While going Christmas tree hunting or decorating the tree, he wasn't in his serge then. At the slumber party and she put frosting on him, he wasn't in his serge then. In the library when they both reach for the book , he wasn't in his serge then. When she was blindfolded and she said it was Lucas even though it was Nathan. He wasn't in his serge then.She had held Lucas's hands before, but there was more chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth in that touch. Then at Ned and Florence's wedding reception, when she spoke to him outside. She didn't pull away or say no. Her gaze was spot on him. It was enough that it convinced Lucas there was something more there between them. Why did Florence give Nathan the bouquet to give to Elizabeth instead of Lucas, if it was so obvious to everyone it was Lucas she was in love with.. Apparently it wasn't clear to Florence. Elizabeth cruelly led Nathan with false hope on numerous occasions, including never saying before she didn't care for him in the same way when he declared his love. It was enough again that it bothered Lucas when she told him. Did she ever consider what Nathan's viewpoint might have been to ask him to take off his serge to warm it. Nathan's response was even huh.That's not typically something you ask someone you don't have a deep connection with. Then turns around and gives the pathetic line. I love you , but I'm not in love with you. I have vented long enough, even though I could go on. Sorry it's as long as it is. WCTH used to be my feel good place to go and get a respite from the world. Good feeling is gone. I don't see how they can redeem themselves from this disaster. And trying to make Lucas into Nathan 2.0 is not going to cut it with financial issues, more time with Little Jack now. With Elizabeth and Lucas being central characters that I no longer like doesn't encourage me to continue watching even though I am very fond of some of the other characters, especially Nathan.
Thank you for sharing that, I have felt the same way and I want to add this: Chris McNally himself said the network decided on the guy and the changed their minds several times. I just wish they had decided on a guy when they brought the two men on in Season 6 and then focused on telling that story coherently. But they didn't- the script was finalized the day before shooting. And that's why Team Nathan feels like this. And if we're honest if Nathan got picked Team Lucas would probably feel just as cheated considering the office and handholding scene etc.
@@thelittlescenes1185 I know how Team Lucas viewed the office scene. But I saw it in a different light. I know they say they saw chemistry and excitement. To my viewpoint. It felt like Lucas was uncomfortable with her being there. After she encouraged him to sit next to him, she didn't act like she was comfortable about it. Then when she was fanning herself it was like she had dodged a bullet, because she was trying to force a relationship with Lucas because she couldn't face her fears to be with Nathan. Apparently, I am probably alone in that assessment, but that was my perspective.
@@lisacorbaley6541 I actually found that office scene really uncomfortable. I think Elizabeth fanning herself was to show that the scene was steamy (and really it was quite steamy for 1918), but I didn't feel the chemistry. And I was a Lucas fan in season 7 and when they went to Union City for that reading, I also did not feel the chemistry. I was so excited to see a scene between Lucas and Elizabeth again, and the whole scene fell flat to me. I distinctly remember feeling disappointed. And this office scene which was supposed to be super romantic felt more awkward than anything else. And I really can't even pinpoint why. I think @The little scenes had done an analysis on it and one thing which I found weird was, for example, as Elizabeth was leaving, she didn't say goodnight, or goodbye, she just stared at Lucas and shut the door. I don't buy it, that Elizabeth was in love with Lucas. Why was she so upset after Nathan told her he loves her? Why did she say "I can't"? Okay, she could have felt really bad about not having made a choice, she could have felt backed into a corner etc. etc. But to run off and cry and say "I can't"? Not to mention saying "It would hurt too much to lose you the way I lost Jack" Why would it hurt too much? In my opinion, it seems like she is, in that moment, comparing her feelings for Nathan to her feelings for Jack. The fact that she said, it would "hurt too much" speaks volumes. She could have said: "I can't go through that loss again" But no, she said "it would hurt too much to lose you" As if losing him would hurt less if they weren't in a relationship. What was the point of that scene, really?
The ep 8 has been done in rush, it looks like Elisabeth suddenly thought "Eureka, I know who I love". She "runs" to Nathan's office and she is rude and cruel to Nathan. However, I felt the words weren't what she was thinking. I think she was still refusing her love for Nathan. Anyway, the writers decided to write the ending we know. I guess it has probably difficult to act for Erin and Kevin. After the scenes where they became so close, to take a slap for Nathan from Elisabeth, gosh how hard that must be to change your acting. But as professional, they done what they can. Now how silly was the scene where Nathan is telling L that Elisabeth in not love with him... Come on, who will be so moron to be to so kind with the guy who was the selected suitor. It wasn't to him to tell the thing. So much nonsense. I'm not sure finally that producers and co have bet on the horse leap😉🤔
@@lisacorbaley6541 You are not alone , I thought the same. Why didn't he send her a note that he couldn't meet her for supper? He seemed lost in thoughts with his drink in his dark office. Same when he was on the phone that morning, she wanted to talk but he very skillfully got her to leave so he could make that call. Was a gift for his parents [?] more important than Elizabeth? So many questions that never got answered...
I was always team Nathan. He won me from the first season he appeared. Like the scene where he volunteered to hold Little Jack to give Elizabeth a break. Also- I am so frustrated by all the gazes from Elizabeth from season 6 through season 8. The writers just led us on thinking there was some feeling in the gazes she gave Nathan. Hallmark totally took team Nathan fans for a ride- NOT ONE DATE with Nathan and yet very deep heartfelt conversations between the two of them. I felt their connection was so much deeper. They just continued to mess with his character and the fans. I also- hate how they totally messed Ally’s relationship with Elizabeth. It was hurtful and written poorly. I wish they wouldn’t have introduced the possible love story between E and N. What a complete let down. I am truly disappointed how they strung team Nathan fans along up to the final episode of season 8. Such a disgusting and total let down!! Not giving us one glimpse of anything to look forward to in the next season with Nathan and Ally. I hated the last scene of the season 8 episode 12 where Elizabeth is dressed in her sequin dress and all the candles. It was SO SHALLOW. None of the dates and conversations between Lucas and Elizabeth were deep and heartfelt. I was very disappointed how little Jack was never shown with Lucas. There was NO CONNECTION at all. Also- total confusion and let down with storyline of Clara & Jesse, and Carson & Faith- what the heck? It makes my head spin. At this point I’m not sure I can take another season of the shallow love story between L and E. Overall this last season played with my emotions way too much. What a total let down and complete mess with rushed or undeveloped storylines. Let alone disappointing ones.
I agree with you completely about Clara and Jesse and Carson and Faith. I think those two couples train wrecks are being overshadowed by the love triangle disaster. But, if the love triangle had been done well, the writers would be getting more heat for these two relationships. Clara and Jesse's marriage problems weren't the issue for me. Those things were realistic and could have been great learning and growing and heart warming scenes like what we are used to with this show. For me, the problem was the sassy, disrespectful, immature girl gang they created this season with Clara, Faith, and Fiona. They made a fool out of Clara through that mess this season and it totally ruined the storyline for her and Jesse. And then Carson and Faith. They built such a beautiful love story for them over season 6&7. In part, this was to hep us heal from Jack's death. And it worked. Then to have it flip flop constantly was just ridiculous. It didn't keep with their story line as a couple or their personalities as individuals and was way too much unnecessary drama in top of the love triangle. I honestly was so confused with what was going on with Carson and Faith, and even now it doesn't make sense to me.
Thank you so much for your time and efforts putting these videos together. I agree so much with everything you've stated as well as some other points brought up in the comments. One scene that I believe also deserves to be mentioned is the talk that happens between Rachel and Christopher as they are sitting outside of the cafe. It was similar to the talk Elizabeth and Nathan had in season 6 about pushing people that we like away so we won't get hurt if they leave. Rachel says sometimes the more we like them the more we push them away. When I saw this scene I thought this is how there characters tie into the season 8 triangle. This only works however with Nathan as endgame. If this was meant to be one of those "red herrings" in relation to the triangle , it was in very poor taste. It was helpful in Christopher and Henry's relationship and maybe that was all it was meant to be. I just know I felt like it was supposed to have meaning for both storylines. It seems like all the redemptive storylines were just dropped, in relation to the triangle. I really thought that I would be able to accept whomever was chosen. Erin Krakow has had the ability to make me believe she is falling in love with a new leading man multiple times. So I thought it would happen here as well. That is SO NOT what happened! After everything they put Nathan through he had to have the happy ending,right!?! Nope. So the slap in the face 'I love you but not in love with you. BTW I only liked you cause you remind me of my dead husband but you'll always be impeccable to me', not a fan of Elizabeth in that scene. Fast forward to the bridge, I tried but I could not watch. It still makes me cringe just thinking about it. It was wrong on so many levels. So much for believing Erin Krakow could have chemistry with anyone. The epic love story that was building was destroyed. This had the potential to be even deeper than the beautiful love story of the first 5 seasons. What a missed opportunity😔 Backing up a bit I noticed they tried to throw the whole 'Love is patient, Love is kind' around Elizabeth and Lucas' relationship. I know Lucas had said he'd be patient but he never really was in my opinion. He always forced his way onto Elizabeth. The only scene in which he pulled back was the office scene, when he told Elizabeth to wait and he kissed her hand. To be honest, I felt like he wanted to get rid of her at the moment because he needed to handle something else. Not really feeling patience and love. Nathan, however, has been extremely patient. Giving her lots of space and time to grieve Jack in seasons 6 and
I agree, I see that they tried to tell the "Love is patient, love is kind" story. But they failed. It is so upsetting because even though I like Kevin better and I also prefer the character of Nathan, I totally could've been onboard with Lucas. However, he wasn't at all patient. He was constantly trying so hard to hold back what he was feeling (example: watching Elizabeth and Nathan but only breaking up in Ep11, the talk at her rowhouse, the talk at the schoolhouse). How is that good or healthy? He couldn't even tell her that he doesn't like seeing her constantly interact and look after Nathan. He always pushed her to get physical with him. With the handhold and then with the kiss. But he never pushed her to open up about Jack or Nathan- wouldn't that have been more important than holding hands, especially if he is her lifetime?
@@thelittlescenes1185 Apparently Elizabeth finally bought into the physical thing with Lucas because I have never, ever, even in soaps I watched as a teen in the 80's, ever seen such a cringey kissing scene. It looked like she was going to eat his face! The first time she's ever even the slightest bit physical with him she wants to devour him? It just wasn't believable. Especially not for that time period. How did the guys behind season 8 get so much so weird? I hate that I can't go back to it for season 9 after I hoped and hoped there'd be a season 9! But after about episode 8ish, I was having a hard time tuning back in. Things just didn't connect. Didn't make sense. I was Team Little Jack the whole way. Unfortunately, he wasn't considered.
@@sallieishere1409 yeah, so R rated and icky scene as per comments ..they just "don't gel romantically as on screen couple" .maybe am biased Kevin is better in his romantic roles I have seen all his HM movies and he is great excellent at all of the leading ladies ge was with, Jen Lilly, Erin Cahill, Emily Ulerup, Jana Kruger, Cindy Busby etc...Heartland- Michele Morgan etc
Bernardine Jolly June 9, 2021 I spent about a week trying to read all the comments to your analysis. I did read over 200 comments and also tried to read some of the replies. The most interesting was an exchange from LaHistoire and Henry MacAngus. Today was the first time these comments appeared online. Would you have this exchange entered again on the comments section. I find the analysis of S8 very illuminating as to why viewers were stressed, confused, and very sad watching these episodes.
The writing for this season was not the feel good storylines we have come to expect...nothing feel good about characters fighting, being selfish and immature. Story lines and themes were abandoned along with the values, principals and standards of past seasons. Elizabeth is no longer a role model to be looked up to! Her character was changed to a woman who goes out of town overnight with a saloon owner who almost got her killed when the man he cheated shows up and holds her hostage! She wears what she says is not an "Elizabeth" dress, her "scenes" with Lucas were suggestive emphasizing physical attraction (lust) not deep abiding love. ( never any deep conversations or any interactions beyond the superficial) She goes on to be accusing, mean and shrewish without any remorse for her behavior... Callously leading on 2 men, and even hurting a child! The writing was designed to get ratings not to stay true to the roots of the show and what made it great. I have never been so disappointed in a show that claims to be wholesome in all my life! It was a show centered around the church....now it centers around a saloon, a gambler, sensual scenes, tearing down the hero and family, hurting children and unkindness. The deliberate misleading of fans all for ratings....not good....farewell Wcth
I agree with all you have said. Elizabeth said she was looking for Jack in Nathan then why did she entertain Lucas as a love interest? Why didn’t she pursue a relationship with Nathan and then arrive at this realization. Instead of locking eyes with Nathan when she was with Lucas, it should have been the other way around. The only thing that Jack and Nathan had in common was the red serge. What was she looking for? She didn’t like the risks Jack had to take in his job but she enjoyed his romantic gestures so maybe she found Jack in Lucas. What was the purpose of the game that was supposed to determine your life partner? Lucas let Elizabeth go so she could find true love. Obviously he did not feel that she loved him. Why was there hesitancy to kiss Lucas or hold his hand in public since they were supposedly courting? Then the forced friendship scene in the saloon between Nathan and Lucas. Is that how a man with a broken heart operates. No. He would behave the way Lucas did by leaving town. The way it seems to me is that the show was supposed to end in season 8 but when the producers heard the call for season 9, they had to find a way to make it happen. Season 8 finale was an anti climax. I still find it hard to believe that the writers messed up so badly and I have to believe that Lucas is not Elizabeth’s final choice. We have been asked to trust the writers.The writers will explore the relationship between Lucas and Elizabeth and something will happen to cause a separation. Nathan will end up being the one with patience for she will realize that he was the man she truly loved. There is a reason for Nathan telling Lucas about having Elizabeth’s heart and not Elizabeth herself. I can’t recall Elizabeth telling Nathan that Lucas was the one. This is the only reason I could possibly imagine for the ending of Season 8 being anti climatic. It makes sense too for no one could say she chose another Mountie. I truly hope this is the way the storyline would go because at this point Elizabeth’s choice is arbitrary.
Even if that’s the way they are going I think they already missed the mark on an epic story. I don’t know if I even want Elizabeth with Nathan now. Unless the characters wake up from a nightmare that was the finale.
Interesting viewpoint..... but it’s just hard to think this way when the physical PDA on the bridge and in the library scene was like that..... it just feels like they struck a fatal blow to the chance of N/E ever happening. Nathan can forgive a lot....and he has.... but that break up speech tore him apart I’m sure and He would be unwise to ever trust Elizabeth again.
@@jenniferpatrow712 Yes, dont know what they can do to right wrong they did to the storylines...unless they ship Lucas away and never to return or for some reason found guilty of his past./nefarious background in S6...could be imprisoned for a while.& Nathan may consider another new love interest, for himself and Allie to build a new life with. WCTH is not what it used to be! Messed up big time!
Jennifer Patrow I agree. That PDA was the death knell to E and N, unless they truly want to make this into a soap opera. Funny how the E, N, and E “love” story is the only one the writers treated in such a manner. We pretty much were certain of the choices for the other couples. They handled them in true HM tradition. Then, BAM! Something crazy for E. Can’t trust them in the future. I don’t care to invest a season, only to end up with incongruity for a finale again.
Thanks for this! Your analysis is always insightful and helpful. While I have other observations that trouble me, the one that I most recently focused upon was the wasted effort on the episode where Bill had to hand in his serge...and the "uniform doesn't make the man" theme. If Elizabeth was only displacing her need for Jack in Nathan, effectively reducing him to only a man in a red serge, then what was the purpose of that entire sequence? The discussion Nathan had with Bill about the difficulty giving up the serge...wasn't it a possible foreshadow or back reference to what he had said he would do for Elizabeth in episode 2? If not, then why spend time on it? All of that now seems like time that could have been used for something else...rather than code to TN which fueled the notion that Nathan was to be endgame. That episode ended with the Fort Clay revelation which may have been the only element necessary for where they eventually landed with their story weave. Lucas never wore a uniform so that theme doesn't mean anything for our understanding of him as Elizabeth's future life partner.
You’re so right! I had forgotten that as I had initially watched Bill and Nathan talk about that I thought that was yet another hint towards Nathan leaving the Mounties and being with Elizabeth. You’re so right that since she didn’t choose him that was also a totally pointless storylines especially since Bill has not been a Mountie since the show started.
I already commented a huge paragraph but there are just so many things that I just did nottttt approve of. Something that just honestly concerned and disturbed me was that when Lucas first came into town there were some shady things involving him. Like the French lady that he kept talking to on the phone and the money he was hiding. They dropped that story line as well or somehow they're going to bring it back up again in the future (which is stupid). And honestly most Nathan fans are okay with Lucas and as the show has gone on for the most part I'm learning to tolerate him, but I do not like him. He's waaaaay to nosy. He sticks himself into other people's business and when they get upset, he gets all apologetic and ''I didn't realize that you wouldn't appreciate this''. Like when Elizabeth told him about her book and he almost like pressured her into letting him read it and then precedes to tell her that she's not writing enough from her heart (even tho in the like 3-4 seasons that she had been writing that book they had made such a strong point on that E was writing from her heart and that Jack was her inspiration but suddenly when Lucas comes in all that goes out the window???). Then he sticks his nose into Henry and Christopher's FAMILY affairs and invites Christopher behind Henry's back. And those aren't the only examples. Lucas doesn't know his boundaries and I find him pushy and slick and only concerned about E (which actually goes to say he only cares about himself cause if he truly cared about her, he would be more involved with Baby Jack and care more about E's feelings and the people that she cares about than just ending up with her). Something that frustrated me is that the point of WCTH is supposed to be family and love and this whooooooooole season there was nothing but fighting and mistreatment and drama and hurt. I mean besides the triangle, take that out of the picture and it was still a horrible season. There was no unity in this season. Jesse and Claire were fighting the whole time. Faith and Carson were always going back and forth and eventually ended their relationship which totally sucked. E and Rosemary had a nasty fight cause E was being so inconsiderate and suspicious of everyone. Even Lee and Rosemary seemed a bit distant and Rosemary didn't really act like the Rosemary we all know and love. That bubbly spark and high spirit was gone. And I think we all needed that because this season was so heavy and depressing, but we got next to no humor this whole freaking season. Just so much division and fighting. The only romance we really saw was Fred and Florence (which yeah that was nice I guess) and a small inkling of Hickam and Fiona (which was so vague and sparce it doesn't really count) and that to me was such a let down. Every week I was hoping that that week's ep was going to be better than the week before's, but nope. They just got worse. And why is no one talking about the fact that we barely saw Baby Jack this whooooole season. I get that they couldn't film with the twins very much cause of covid and cause of their age, but he was honestly barely talked about. It was always what E wanted and who E loved and how E felt, not Baby Jack needs a good man to raise him or you would make a good father for my son. And I can't speak from experience but every single mom that I've ever seen, that is one of their main concerns and what they look for in a man. And with Lucas not fitting that mold, it just adds onto the whole ''poor writing/ none of this makes sense'' box. HALLMARK, WE MEAN THIS WHEN WE SAY THAT WE WILL NOT BE BACK IF YOU DON'T FIX THIS (even tho we don't know how you could). We're not just ''in grieving'' rn. We're done. We're totally over this drama and this ruining of a show that we held close to our hearts. Thank you for wasting the last 8 years of my life to just completely let me down.
I appreciated the Jesse and Clara hardships but yes- they showed all the right scenes but in the last episode when he came back they could’ve given us some more romantic Jess and Clara....but they didn’t cause they were literally going only for drama. Which is why I’m not going to watch s9. There’s Bridgerton s2 to watch that’s perfect to watch
@@thelittlescenes1185 Yeah, at first I totally appreciated what they were doing Jesse and Claira cause it really show cased that not all relationships are smooth and easy going even as newly weds, but just added on top of everything that was already going on it was just stress on stress and drama on drama. And yesss, I'm going to find myself some new korean dramas to binge watch
Speaking to the finale and the ending of the love triangle specifically: you should not ever have to TELL us how a character feels, or how we, as the viewer should feel. Good writing explains itself and SHOWS us. The entire finale, they told us how Elizabeth felt through her narrations and one on one scenes with different characters. However, the entire season did not reflect or support any of these things. The finale especially felt completely out of left field. The entirety of season 8 had problems with inconsistencies in story lines and bad writing, but the finale itself was, by far, the worst written episode. Almost everything that happened in the finale did not fit with season 8, or make any sense with the characters personalities at all. I was actually not really either team. I thought both men were well written and had good potential. So, while I’m not upset she picked Lucas, nothing about her picking him makes sense. There was no closure for Nathan (or more importantly, Nathan fans), no explanation as to why the scales finally tipped in lucas’ favor, no understanding with her decisions regarding either man, and no couple development between E&L after they had just broken up.
Well said! It's one of the reasons many are not tuning in for S9....the story of the why should have been S8, not coming after the decision....too little, too late for upset fans.
So true. They shouldn't have to explain how/why they did things, their story telling should do it for us. Since they have to explain how Elizabeth was projecting her feelings for Jack onto Nathan, that proves they did not do a good enough job showing us. Since they have to explain why Lucas is the best choice, that proves they didn't do a good enough job showing us!
Also ..... Now I'm curious about sneek peeks and previews .... How many of them were about N/E or L/E discussing N..... I think this may be another place we can see them using advertising to grab Nathan fans over Lucas ones ..
I think this video is exactly all the things I feel right now. I started watching wcth season 1 with my husband and 3 kids. There is not alot out there that we can all sit down to watch together anymore really. In the beginning episodes we get to see E&J getto know each other and some good story lines in between. Never drama, never rushed.. they brought Charles in and I believe it was to show us who Elizabeth really is, and how down to earth she is. When Jack died, we were all devastated like he was our own family member, lol But we gave seasons 6&7 chances and did enjoy it. When season 8 started things turned way off. I thought hmm this isn't how Elizabeth is.. I gave it a chance though as I was hoping for Nathan to get at least a couple dates, something. By the end of the finale I was shocked I felt duped in a way. Nathan always represented Jack's personality with things like being humbled, caring and patient. Lucus to me, was things that Elizabeth simply isn't (well I thought anyways). Makes me wonder if he didn't have any money or slick ways with her book what she really would think of him. I thought to myself she passed up Charles and surely she would with Lucus. But boy, was I wrong. Not sure if I will watch season 9 of it. Maybe if they bring Abigail back. They always talk about Hope Valley giving second chances, forgiving each other. They owe me that much....
If I were Lori Loughlin I wouldn't return to that mess...not sure it's worth the money. But then again they all seem very money hungrey to me now. I don't like the vibes I'm getting. I understood why Jack had to die. To now rob us of seeing the Mountie lovestory play out with a happy ending...that I don't understand
Oh! And I also felt like Lucas just didn't deserve the girl. I certainly don't want someone who runs away every time things don't go his way. Not sure why Elizabeth choose him. I really don't.
The analysis was very good. The writers showed Elizabeth and Lucas in a family setting where little Jack was involved. And also Lucas is a business man and a saloon owner. Season 8 was all about this triangle witch was like a soap opera. In the pass seasons it was more family. The characters showed more compassion and love for each other. When there was problems most of the storylines was worked out for or resolved in a
I felt that they always gave Lucas the big romantic things: dinners, going out on a date. But Elisabeth promised Nathan to have dinner with him and little Jack and Allie, but she never actually did. Nathan got the little things that really mattered. But Nathan was the man who sits down besides her when she was waiting outside the clinic while her friend was operated on. Nathan was the man who was worried about Elisabeth and the children out in the woods with the storm. And Nathan was the man who handmade a signbord for her library. While Lucas only helped her writing-carriere when he had read her book, Nathan helped her writing with asking about it and helped her to believe in herself. Nathan was the man who had the more personal connection with Elisabeth. And then the break-up: it felt right. He also saw this connection and was jealous about it. In the interviews they say it was back and forth between Lucas and Nathan, but actually it wasn't. She was always romanticly involved with Lucas, and the hints they were talking about were al in the direction of Elisabeth attracted to Nathan while in a relationship with Lucas. This isn't back and forth. This is more staying with Lucas while having a real connection with the other man Nathan. The story ending is NOT a good follow-up of the story which was told. It was there story to tell: they decided what they cut in or cut out. This isn't indeed about Lucas or Nathan, it is about a good story. And the ending didn't match with the story they told us in this last seasons. I am disappointed and don't know if they can make it right again.
100% agree. And her lying to Nathan about „maybe later“ having a dinner and never telling him a definite no - but then also not ending up with him is extremely out of character . You don’t drag someone along like that only to insult them in the end. Yes, even if Nathan got picked Lucas would’ve been the one dragged along and it would’ve also been out of character…but then it would at least make sense to use the fort clay story AND Lucas still would’ve kept his dignity. Nathan had no dignity left by the time they were done with his character
@ AH, they can't correct it...they will build up Chris more and Erin scenes and keep Kevin, Allie mourning the loss of A great love story that could have been. Why S 9 will be all abt E & L and I will not be following it! They are not my heroes and sad bec I will miss the other cast...Bill, R n L Canfields, C n J , H n F Faith etc... ..so be it.
@@thelittlescenes1185 It is so totally unnecessary unbelievable for E to be conflicted that much when her action and connections with Nathan shows otherwise!! Bad lousy writing and acting on E and C...even "the Kiss" was too YUCKY, MORE lustful R rated as others commented!!! E was changed in S8. Nathan and Allie may save the show and possibly new love interest - Cindy Busby good chemistry in Autumn Stables!! (and put E as less visible & L to New Orleans to start business in the background..LOL!!)
You are right, the show did not end up with that feel good feeling, more like dismay. Season 7 had at least a dozen beautiful little moments between Nathan and Elizabeth, and then the final hug. We were all keyed up and excited about the blossoming of Nathan and Elizabeths romance but in Season 8 the wheels came off. Elizabeths character has been tarnished . I think Ill fast forward the Elizabeth Lucas scenes in season 9. For Elizabeth to revert back to her wealthy upbringing with rides in cars , picnics and candlelight meetings seems out of place in the pioneering era it was written in. But I have so been enjoying the show up till the end of season 7. Do hope there can be some resurrection and healing somewhere because wholesome shows are so hard to find these days.
I have tried to write 2 comments and almost get finished and it all disappears. The writers basically destroyed in season 8 what they had so carefully crafted in the last two seasons. I love Lucas as character but Nathan did the hard work of building a relationship with Elizabeth. I think Elizabeth was afraid if something happened to Nathan it would destroy her. Her relationship with Lucas seems far more shallow. I love all three of the principle actors but they were the victims of some really, poorly thought out writing this season.
Watching the cruel side of Elizabeth was difficult. A lot of friendships and relationships were hurt due to the avoidance of addressing the love triangle: Rosemary, Ally (especially in the dinner invitation scene), Lucas, and Nathan. I began watching “When Calls The Heart” before Season 9 came out. The lightheartedness felt so inspiring and beautiful. Season 8 felt conflicted and stressful as opposed to alleviating stress. I do hope Season 9 will be more lighthearted.
You mean Season 8- Season 9 is still ahead of you...I personally am not watching it. Especially since Brian Bird is saying we should "trust them"...if you have to say that you've already lost it
Yes to everything you said! I honestly felt like my intelligence was insulted watching that finale. They think so little of their fans if they think they can get away with that nonsense. Most of us are well read, educated and know what makes a good story. We can see a flipped script and last minuted decision from a mile away. Unacceptable!
Agree with all and everything being said here! Unfathomable the way they TBTB, BB (and Erin if she's with them,) to think of us as powerless, or insulting our intelligence! Wow! Smoothing us with redemption at S 9!?? Trust is a virtue and right now or ever, they dont have my trust!
Exactly 💯 agree! The storyline was written to lead BOTH teams on until the end! (All for ratings) They could have ended the nonexistent triangle after Nathan professed his love the 1st time. Instead they kept selling false hope until the very end. If she had chosen Nathan the storyline would make sense but then Lucas fans would be hurt and rightfully so. It was all about ratings with no concern to the deliberate deceit and emotional manipulation perpetrated on viewers! They sold both teams the hope of a beautiful love story but failed to deliver. Better writing would have made viewers understand Elizabeth's choice (even if you don't agree with her choice).Several storylines fell flat, themes were abandoned, misleading clues, misleading promos and interviews, were all designed to string you along until the end. Watching beloved characters get beat up and abused the entire season with no happiness at the end so not wcth worthy! Elizabeth unkindness and drastic character change was not the herione we loved from previous seasons....BUT the kicker for me was involving and crushing a motherless child! So not WCTH worthy! Each person must decide what is right for them but I will not REWARD this kind of deliberate cruelty with my continued viewership.
Agreed...I willl not continue watching this show....their actions were deliberate....the writing left much to be desired, it was illogical, lacking sense, mean and cruel! They could have written a wcth worthy ending for all characters, fans and/or teams! I also agree involving Allie.....TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!
I agree you said it better than i could they you be thr detective i didnt start watching wcth to be a detective i wanted to see a good family show with good moral values all the characterusually act nice and caring but even Rosemary was out of character when she came out her door and saw Nathan yalking to Elizibeth. And looked indignant at him and said hmm' like what are you doing talking to her what was that for ?? The whole season was off not the kind of show i thought it was it's true they were playing each side to keep everyone warching i do t know if I'll watch it next season oh well
S8 WCTH - From a Writer's Perspective Thank you 'The Little Scenes" for your wonderful video analysis. I only found this video about a month ago. Sorry this is long, but...a lot to say. I have waited seven months to comment about S8, anywhere, primarily because I was waiting to see if there was something I had missed in the scenes from S6-S8 that would have logically drawn the audience to this S8 finale. There had to be something, right? I have been a faithful fan of WCTH since the pilot but will not be watching S9, even though I really love some of the characters such as Allie, Nathan and Fiona. Throughout all the comments I've read after the S8 finale, some questions and thoughts arose. 1) Were there any credible reasons why 60-70% of this show’s fans were disappointed in the S8 finale outcome? 2) Why were the other 30-40% of fans not disappointed? 3) TL and TN were irrelevant when one is thinking about relationship dynamics and character development. The only conclusion I could come to was that 30-40% of fans didn’t care about relationship dynamics and character development and neither did whoever wrote those last scenes. The other 60-70% of fans did care. Elizabeth and Jack’s relationship was written and developed beautifully. So, then we were introduced to two new potential romantic partners for Elizabeth after Jack's death. Wonderful. We truly wanted her to be happy after all the grief she had experienced. I was neither TL nor TN until S8. I watched those scenes, looking for the relationship dynamics and character development. At the beginning of S8, judging by the elements that are essential for good story telling, I saw that writing showing that Elizabeth would end up with Nathan. WCTH seasons 6-8 were not about which man could make Elizabeth flip up a menu to fan herself with, first. Now, whereas Elizabeth’s relationship with Jack deepened into a close, loving relationship after she fanned herself watching him chop wood in S1, we got a 180 degree deviation from that necessity in the S8 finale. If the writers on this show would like the fans to still care about Elizabeth’s character, we would have also liked to have cared about what man she ended up with, especially as it also concerned who would be helping her raise her son. The statement ‘Respect Elizabeth’s choice’ is not accurate. We were never given a reason to respect Elizabeth’s choice. Respect has to be earned, not demanded. If anyone is still not seeing why 60-70% of fans were disappointed, they could go back through S6-8 and write down every time they see Lucas and Nathan being genuinely supportive of Elizabeth, having meaningful conversations with her, times when they didn’t try to buy her, and how many times they told her they loved her. Then, compare the two characters. While ‘spark’ is also necessary in a relationship, there wasn’t even a dud firecracker between Elizabeth and Lucas. No chemistry. I always felt as if Lucas wanted to push her into a quick relationship. (Red flag). However, there were quite a few sparklers between Elizabeth and Nathan and at no time did he try to push her. (Relationship dynamics and character development). This has to do with ‘show, don’t tell’ and ‘tell, don’t show.’ I’ve never seen a better example of ‘tell, don’t show’ than Elizabeth’s one-dimensional relationship with Lucas. Were we just supposed to fill in the blanks? Candlelit dinners, rainy picnics, taking a woman away for an evening of Virginia Woolf, sending her manuscript to someone without her permission and spying on her, are not three-dimensional representations of true emotion and willing involvement in a relationship. They are surface fluff. No reflection on Chris McNally's performance. I'm sorry they only gave him one-dimensional scenes with Elizabeth. However, Nathan told her he loved her and that he was in love with her. Now, if we're talking about 'risky,' there you go. Nathan gave Elizabeth more of what was important in that one conversation than Lucas did with all his fancy dinners, outings and candles. Three-dimensional. I won't comment much on the face hickey that occurred at the end of E12, except to say that we got more fluff without substance. Lust is not love. Because there was no good story telling that led up to that scene, it could not have been perceived as love. Elizabeth crying because Lucas was going to run off (again), did not seem like love - it seemed like fear. I truly felt like he was manipulating her, she fell for it, and had she been her real self again, she would have never accepted that garbage from him. Did Nathan run away from her? No, he didn't. And if they decided to put that awful scene in where Nathan had to be the one to tell Lucas that Elizabeth loved him, it was only showing Nathan's character in a better light again. However totally unrealistic that was. Personally, I would have let Lucas skip town and make his own mistakes. Nathan owed him nothing, and you are right - that was not Nathan's true character. Another thing with the "I can't," and the 'you remind me of my dead husband,' scenes was this question: Would Elizabeth have given Jack and subsequently little Jack up if she knew Jack would die so soon after their marriage? That's what she was saying in those scenes with Nathan. "If I had known I would lose Jack, I would have never taken the chance to be with him, nor had my son." There are no guarantees and every rational human being knows this. - What would Lucas have been willing to give up for her, if he'd had to? He wouldn't even stay in town for her. When Nathan said he'd give up being a Mountie for her, he was telling her how important she was to him. I'm glad she refused to let him do that, but...Also, reducing Nathan, who had cared so deeply for her, into nothing more than an empty red, serge suit in E12, (after she kept giving him longing looks and encouraging him for three seasons and after he'd told her he would chuck that red, serge suit for her) was not only extremely rude and deeply cruel, it was also blindly ignorant. I too saw the weirdness of Elizabeth saying that stuff in her last scene with Nathan. Just...why? What I saw was a woman who was behaving irrationally and who was scared and taking the easy way out. Not a woman making the more 'risky choice.' I saw a woman who psychologically was not over Jack's death yet. Lucas was the safer, if totally insensible choice. Although this was mentioned in the video, I kept wondering why the audience knew more about Lucas than Elizabeth did. This guy has a lot of secrets. Good thing he knew how to speak French so Elizabeth wouldn't know what he was saying on the phone. It is also unfortunate that the writers didn't take the time to develop Elizabeth's relationship with Lucas as much as they spent on developing her relationship with Nathan. Truthfully, I felt as if 60-70% of this show's fans had a chair kicked out from underneath them just as they were about to sit down. I don't know - maybe that 60-70% had been caring about this show since day one and the others hadn't. It's just a 'darn shame.' Elizabeth's negative change in personality in S8 was also a great disservice to her. I didn't even know who she was anymore. I'm hoping they improve her character again in S9. I’m sorry that I will not be there to watch it, of course, but I wish everyone on the show well and thank them for the seven greatest seasons of television I have ever watched.
I feel that we all need some therapy from season 8. I would have preferred that Elizabeth just chose Lucas in the beginning with no love triangle. I am upset because now we have grown to love Nathan's character and just can't see Elizabeth spending forever with Lucas. I thought I would not get over Jack dying but I did and now that we can see her in relationship with someone (Nathan) that has some of the same qualities as Jack, the writers take us in another direction. The chemistry I saw all season 8 was with Nathan especially the moment he said I love you. At that point she should have said I don't think I can love you that way. Instead we hd the back and forth for four more episodes.
Probably the couple things that bothered me the most is the ep 2 N confession of love and then in ep 12 her heart has always been with L?! Also neither E or L have either said I love you to each other. Which I find strange. Only between N and E. And E to N in the breakup. I can buy the i love you but I’m not in love with you. She’s still having fun with Lucas and not facing her feelings imo so not much has changed. I immediately thought, ok “in love” is a phase and it will pass. I can’t buy the “I’m seeing jack.” He’s not even in serge half the time! And it doesn’t line up with Molly’s comment to Bill about the serge being more than the man. I agree a lot of things were very rushed. I personally think the cast is getting too big and that is contributing to shallow storylines. I was hoping to get to see more of Jesse’s rescue! The only thing that really makes sense is they just want us to think this is the end of N & E. They basically could have E say down the road that she just “thought” L was her lifetime and they’d still get to pick up all the N threads. It still feels like we are at half time in pride & prej where E said to Mr Darcy he is “the last person she’d marry.” Not any closure really. I really wish they would’ve spent more time on L and E conversations for depth of his character. It feels to me like they used Nathan to generate interest for the next season. Kind of like The Bachelor & so we should all be curious where his story goes & keep watching. 😩 but we’ve already seen his heart trampled on like all season why would we watch more?
Not only does it appear half time in P and P, it also seems at the 2/3rd to 3/4th mark of a Hallmark Rom-Com where there is the upheaval that occurs before the last few minutes of change back to the real love story. The end of S8 could be that upheaval and may continue for a few more episodes before it resolves to what the actual real and true love story is to be. If there are projected 12 Seasons, then there are about 40 more episodes to go. Fingers crossed.
When they said we would be gasping and rolling at the finale, they got that right! That Lucas and Elizabeth ending left us gasping in disbelief. Except for them saying that this was her final choice, I would think that this is just another ending in the triangle saga-she seemed to choose Lucas at the end of season 6(the dance), then Nathan at the end of season 7(the hug), now Lucas at season 8 (the kiss). The only way this would make any sense after the way they built up Elizabeth and Nathan with a lame excuse about seeing Jack in Nathan and not having built any meaningful dialogue and growth interactions between Elizabeth and Lucas, is to have Elizabeth recognize infatuation with Lucas and abiding love with Nathan with a wedding at the end. Because it is Nathan’s turn and the stakes have been raised each season ending. Except she kissed Lucas and for that time, that is serious stuff. So, oh well. Also, I don’t think Nathan’s fans would wholeheartedly be on board with Nathan as Elizabeth’s second choice unless they did some “impeccable”writing worthy of an academy award where this was coveted to be something Nathan truly wanted and Elizabeth redeemed herself. After all, HV is supposed to be good about second chances. Another thought out of nowhere-why are they willing to possibly trot out a “has been done” scenario like Lucas and Nathan becoming great friends like Rosemary and Elizabeth, but not have Elizabeth choose a Mountie. Instead, they trotted out a cross between Billy Hamilton and Charles, except this time she chooses them instead of the Mountie as she did with Jack. You had to tally change her values to do that!
I've watched this video many times now, everything you brought up makes perfect sense and very similar to what I've been thinking. I made a list of all the scenes I felt were wrong I've got 8 pages now and I'm not done yet. The one thing I will add is why did Nathan say:" Adopting Allie is the single best thing I've ever done in my entire life" ? To me it signifies that Nathan would love lil Jack as much as Allie or any son of his. Elizabeth was not unmoved by that as any woman would be when choosing the best father for her son. It seems that it meant nothing in the end. I hated that last scene when Faith asked Nathan how he hurt his hand and he said he was rescuing his hat from barbwire. What barbwire? They made him sound so stupid and superficial, worst scene ever, no I didn't like that Nathan. I hated the chaos created in Ep8,, too much to deal with at one time, I was so stressed I didn't watch the ending. What about all those candles in the LIBRARY? I hope there will be a second video. Well done on this one.
I just watched that Faith scene I agree! There was definitely more storyline to that initially but they cut it out,,,but seriously “chasing my hat” like WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU TINKER
Whose idea was this storyline anyway? Whoever it was should be fired. And why would so many go along with it? Did they not read the scripts? Who edited these shows? Did they not preview them before airing them? How could they ignore the polls if 70% of their audience was TN? How could they not see this incredible disaster coming? Wow! It really is unbelievable.
They didn’t ignore the polls which is even worse, they knew exactly that most of their fan base preferred Nathan to Lucas and they used that in the editing, kept in storylines of Nathan while ditching Lucas storylines and also gave Nathan deeper storylines the audience would want to follow so they would get the ratings to get another season out of WCTH. Because another season means a few more millions. That’s what’s so disappointing about The Whole show now. It’s no longer a labor of love like it was at the beginning, it’s lost all it’s Passion and magic because like Bird, Krakow and McNally have admitted it’s about keeping WCTH on our screens as long as possible. Well as long as possible is not good enough when it’s a shallow senseless story, so I’m doing them the favor and taking WCTH off my screen for them.
I haven't seen this written anywhere so maybe I dreamed about it. Didn't Nathan even offer to leave his job for Elizabeth? I have been Team Nathan for a long time but I haven't said anything because I think it's a huge mistake that will redeem it's self next year. It's never 0ver until the end. As wishy washy as Elizabeth is, anything could happen. I'm hanging on for the ride. Also, these 3 are not the entire cast. There is too much story left to tell. That's my 5 cents! 💕🌺
Jean, when she said she could not stand to lose him like she lost Jack he told her he would quit being a Mountie if that is what it took. That was the problem, when he told her he loved her she never said she didn’t love him, it was left as she couldn’t stand to lose him like she did Jack and she didn’t tell him she was not in love with him until the final episode.
Excellent video! I wholeheartedly agree with you. The storytelling was lackluster in S8. I felt like the draw and angst of the triangle (not necessarily the writing) carried the season on its back because overall the secondary storylines were not that strong. Firstly, Carson and Faith's storyline was really drawn out and the topic of staying vs. going was discussed repetitively without any story progression. I just felt like we were going in circles. Similarly, Jesse and Clara talked about their problems to everyone, more than worked through them as a couple. I also didn't like how there was no build or backstory to Jesse losing their money. It felt like the writers randomly dropped a bomb for the sake of drama and then had both characters talk about their problems to their friends constantly with no development. Jesse and Clara's small fights had a similar impact. The writers threw a problem at viewers with this couple, but they didn't tell me why I should care. What motivated Jesse to act impulsively and buy the motorcycle? What motivated him to invest suddenly with Wyman? Questions unanswered. We just know that he did. What makes this bad storytelling is that the writers never communicated to their audience why we should care? If we can't relate, we can't connect. There was also a lot of random storylines that never moved the plot/story forward. For instance, Robert running away on the horse and Rachel getting lost in the woods. Both scenes were unimportant and unnecessary. I was scratching my head, truly perplexed about the meaning behind these scenes - when, in reality, it didn't convey anything at all. It was just something that happened. Even if those things were arguably symbolic, good writing can showcase - story progression, symbolism, and foreshadowing - all at once. More random storylines: Nathan trying to locate an escaped prisioner for a 2nd time in episode 8 and Ned's his band-aid patent in the finale. Both of these scenarios were just random things that happened, but didn't dedicate as much time like the aforementioned examples. There was also lots of characters acting unlike themselves this season. For example, Lucas claimed in S8 that he is the master of his own destiny, yet when he returned to Hope Valley after a three-month absence, he is dependent on Gowen for help running the oil business. That felt contradictory, especially considering Lucas evidently didn't trust Gowen whatsoever. Another example is Clara’s actions in ep. 12 when Jesse is still missing in the woods. In S7, when Jesse was lost in the woods during a windstorm, Clara went to the mountain to look for Jesse herself - her worry and concern for Jesse’s well-being evident. In ep. 12 of S8, Clara is baking a cake to stay busy. This is another contradiction, especially when you consider that Jesse was missing for a few hours in S7 versus 2 or 3 days in the last episode of S8. I also believe the Fort Clay storyline was unnecessary considering the finale. The Fort Clay storyline had a clear trajectory - to damage Elizabeth and Nathan’s relationship when the secret was revealed, allow time to process and understand why the secret was withheld for so long, then heal and restore their relationship by beautiful grace and forgiveness. The writers walked viewers through this process and emotional journey just to permanently damage Elizabeth and Nathan’s relationship two episodes later with no resolution in sight. What was the purpose of this? What was the meaning? Things like this is why S8 and the finale make no sense. This is why the show has lost its essence of hope for so many viewers. To be reliant on S9 to fix every loose end in S8 reveals how incomplete and unsatisfying S8 was in and of itself.
❗️❗️❗️WOW ❗️ this is better than my video! Lol. THANK YOU for mentioning all of that, especially the Rachel in the woods thing. I’d forgotten about that, it was SO WEIRD. In the trailer they made it look like she’d get kidnapped but then it was just Rosemary and Lee in the car, no explanation for that and no reason either,,,,
Thank you for speaking clearly and forthrightly. You analyzed the plot as though you were a literature professor. What saddens me the most is that WCTH was a place I went to get a beautiful story. It was a place where the truth was told. It was a place where values were upheld. When 2020 happened everywhere in media we felt as though we were being manipulated by politics and big tech. WCTH was a unique solace. But, not so! Even here the plot was manipulated to end in the way TPTB wanted for us. Not the way, the story naturally bent. Not towards beauty or truth, but towards false beauty (romance over substance) and false truth (none of the three in the triangle were really truthful to each other throughout the season and especially not in the end). I continue to be entirely disappointed.
Thank you. You are absolutely right: this was not the truest and most beautiful story we could’ve imagined for these characters and that is exactly what’s so disappointing about it. You put it so well, it was hard to watch this amount of passiveness and lack of communication in a show that used to get it right.
So well said, Valery! Beautifully put. Your comment really resonated with me. I feel exactly the same. I continue to be extremely disappointed and genuinely confused by the finale (and S8 in general) 5 months later. I understand people have different perspectives on it all, but personally, I’m still devastated that WCTH can no longer be my safe and happy place, because I can’t trust the storytelling and values anymore, and because I feel like there was so much potential for an epic, deep relationship with E and N, and it was thrown away. I’m still gutted. It goes way beyond the choice of Lucas-no hate intended to him. The biggest thing for me is how they had E say she was seeing Jack in Nathan-I can’t continue to watch a show that reduces a man to his uniform, and I just cannot believe that E was seeing N as Jack the past 3 seasons….so many meaningful E and N scenes were all for nothing in the end? Just makes me want to cry every time I think about it. I don’t understand how they didn’t realize how hurtful that line would be to many fans? I feel like they showed us the roots of N and E’s relationship, time and time again; we were waiting for their flower to emerge and grow, and for E to conquer her fears and remember what she cares about most (the little things, family, etc.); and in the end, the roots were unfairly torn from the soil, and E’s character didn’t overcome anything. Nothing grew. (Haha, sorry, felt like being poetic!) I was understanding toward E and her struggles during the season, but looking back, I don’t feel like grief justified the way her character acted toward others and feel like I can’t root for her as a heroine anymore, which makes me sad, because I loved her character and saw such light in her in earlier seasons. It all fell very flat and was unsatisfying to me personally. I felt physically sick after the finale, and no show has made me feel like that before. I wish the best to all the actresses and actors but am too deeply disappointed to watch S9. To The Little Scenes: I agree with Valery. This video is an amazing analysis of Season 8 and very clearly and thoughtfully breaks down the weaknesses of the season. I’ve watched this video several times to remind myself that I’m not alone in feeling the way I do…thank you!!
Thank you ❤️ I am so very glad that his video was a reminder for you that how you’re feeling makes sense and that you’re not alone. I loved the serenity of the first seasons of WCTH, it’s too bad they let it escalate like this and made it a soap opera instead of keeping it a grounding and safe show for everyone to watch. But I am sure there will be new tv programs to offer us something similar and maybe even better, and of course there’s always the option to read or listen to books! It’s sad to say goodbye to WCTH and at the same time it’s an opportunity to try out something new
@@thelittlescenes1185 You’re very welcome! 🙌 I wholeheartedly agree-the first couple of seasons really were the best and had so much heart. Especially Season 1-great writing, great takeaway lessons, etc.! It really does feel like a whole new show now. That’s how I’m trying to find my peace with it moving forward-just looking at it as a whole new show, that others can enjoy while I bid farewell, because it’s not for me anymore. (I can’t help but be curious about how long it’s going to stay on air, but we will see. I think I’ll always look back with sadness on the show but am trying to achieve a place of indifference toward it going forward, which is still admittedly challenging.) Love what you said about finding new things to watch and read. That’s so true-there’s a whole world to explore, and many great stories out there! ❤️ And I will say, I’ve thoroughly been enjoying reading WCTH fan fiction-it’s helped me find joy amidst the disappointment and helped the characters live on in my head, true to how I pictured them. ❤️
Through the character development, story line and superb acting, Nathan has emerged as the underdog hero of the show. The audience resonated a lot more with Nathan and felt acute pain in his heartbreak rather than caring for Elizabeth and experiencing joy in her happiness. If the lead character pair is unable to make that emotional connection with the audience, clearly the plot line, story progression and their screen presence had huge lack. I have watched this show from season one, and for the first time in season 8, I felt Nathan rather than Elizabeth was the pillar of the show. If the lead pair didn’t carry audience emotions with them and the surprise twist turned out to be very unpleasant, clearly the story line was rather unconvincing and the lead actors did not rise to the occasion either through their character development or their performances. The producers can dangle the rating as the proof to the contrary, but I suspect much of that rating was due to audience's attachment to Nathan and Allie and wanting that happily ever after for them. I know, I myself, watched and rewinded the episodes just to watch and rewatch them and so did many other viewers.
Nazma, I believe that you’re 100 percent right. The fact that the audience felt Nathan’s pain much more acutely than they did Elizabeth’s happiness tells you all you need to know about the writing this season. Elizabeth’s cold hearted treatment of Nathan became the story and they didn’t even realize it.
Agreed! I hit the point of wanting Elizabeth out of Hope Valley by the end of the finale for how she was acting all season to everyone. Even her apology to Rosemary was only because she needed her. Not a good sign when the main character isn't liked by a portion of the audience (consumers). On the otherhand, all I want is Nathan's happiness, the season was so hard that I felt every heartbreak as if it was my own...Kevin was that amazing :)
@@catherine_suspendersunbuttoned I think Nazma hit the nail right on the head with that post. I think Elizabeth owes Nathan several apologies for the way she treated him this season.
Yes. They turned Elizabeth into someone unrecognizable. I know people change, but they made her change for the worse, not better. She regressed back to her Hamilton ways, and didn't face her fears. They keep saying it's all about "Elizabeth's happiness", when in reality, most of us wanted to see Nathan happy, because he was only one that persevered this season, and then wasn't rewarded for it in the end. I have zero interest in Elizabeth and Lucas' relationship. So if they're going to be the focus, I have no problem saying goodbye.
I agree with everything you said The Little Scenes. Great analysis as always. After a year we all had with the pandemic. I was so looking forward to watching WCTH S8, a show with a feel good factor, a show to take my mind off reality even if it's only for an hour a week. Instead I found watching S8 to be very stressful and confusing. I have to say there were a few scenes I loved, like the bonding between Bill and Nathan and Nathan and Allie. I also like the Florence and Ned's romance and the new residence to HV. I also like the new no nonsense, business minded Fiona. Like everyone else I was so looking forward to the conclusion of the triangle. Elizabeth has indeed chosen the man she wanted to be with but I am left with so many questions? Did I miss most of the clues or was I too dumb to understand the clever (I mean not so clever) storytelling? In Ep2 Elizabeth told Nathan that it will hurt too much if she lost him as she did Jack. This indicated that she had deep feelings for Nathan (this was confirmed during Elizabeth and Rosemarie's chat when Rosemarie came back from holiday). Understandably she was fearful of loving another mountie. In Ep 10 Elizabeth was advising Ned and Katie about conquering their fears. I thought Elizabeth was going to apply her own advise to herself. But this whole scenario of conquering fear sadly went down the black hole. What was the point of all those scenes? Still Ep2. Nathan told Elizabeth that he knows she felt the same way as he did to which Elizabeth answered “I can't”. In Ep 12 Nathan said Elizabeth's heart has always been with Lucas. When did Nathan know Elizabeth was always in love with Lucas, considering Elizabeth was always chasing after him? Also why did Elizabeth say “I can't” instead of “I don't” if her heart has always been with Lucas? Why did it take Elizabeth until Ep12 to tell Nathan she was not in love with him? Why didn't she tell him in Ep2 when Nathan declared his love? They have had many conversations in between, she could have told Nathan sooner. If the power that be (TPTB)had already decided for Elizabeth to choose Lucas right from the start of S8, why didn't they spend more time building up Elizabeth and Lucas' love story and make it believable instead of Lucas staying in the back ground with a teacup (?) while watching Nathan and Elizabeth having deep. meaningful conversations? They had plenty of time to convince the audience for Lucas to be the worthy winner. Instead I feel that TPTB deliberately manipulated the fans to think that Elizabeth will choose Nathan. Lucas' fans believed it was going to be Nathan. Even Lucas himself broke up with Elizabeth in Ep11 because he believed that Elizabeth loved Nathan. Ep1 to Ep11 mainly pointed to Nathan to be Elizabeth's choice, but lo and behold in Ep12 Elizabeth chose Lucas. Question to TPTB: Did that really make sense to you? In Ep11, the school scene with Lucas and Elizabeth, there was no hint of Elizabeth being in love with Lucas, in fact she looked more disgusted with Lucas she couldn't wait to get away from him. I actually felt sorry for Lucas in that scene. Shortly before the school scene, she was clearly flirting with Nathan. What was all that? In ep12 she said she was seeing Jack in Nathan? How exactly, because he's a mountie? If so, then why wait until Ep12 to tell him that. Why not tell him earlier instead of flirting with him. I want to point out that apart from the serge, there was no similarity between the two men. S8 was not enjoyable to watch. Almost every episode ended in a cliffhanger, very stressful to watch. The old WCTH is gone. Maybe it was all a dream (or a nightmare). I heard from a very recent interview (not naming names) that "we have to have great ratings to get S9". I get that, and I am positive that if the story telling was great, honest and believable, the rating would have been much better. Good luck with S9 TPTB. I'm not watching WCTH anymore. Never
@Madeleine Moyse! Great analysis ...its what all good Hearties esp T N feel, the S 8 from 1 to 11 pointed to Nathan and E great chemistry and would have been a great epic continuation of another Mountie & Teacher romance (but totally different from the Jack character ).. orig storyline is the only theme WCTH is so unique and magical 2 great believable hero and heroine! Red serge Mountie and Educator who is now an author, with blended family, would have been the best ever ❤ story going forward!! Not a "shady past" and " rich manipulator"like Lucas !
@Madeleine Moyse. Great commentary. This story was told in such a way that the majority of viewers saw a Nathan/Elizabeth future. That is because until season 8, the writers did a better job of developing a relationship with those two. Even in Season 8, they had Elizabeth and Nathan having the meaningful conversations. Better writing would have been working on a believable development with E and L if the intent was to have them end up together. Instead, their relationship was shallow romance with Lucas using his money to do over the top dates. But they never dug deep with those two. I have said it before, the way they rushed this supposedly grand love with E and L (however much unbelievable and shallow), I will not be surprised to later hear that Kevin McGarry had decided to do more of other things and they had to scurry around for a hopefully plausible great love tale for E and L so they would not have a repeat of E’s love leaving HV. Would like to just say that Nathan and Elizabeth was more HV feeling than E and L. The old HV that got people tuning in week to week. It was the Mountie and the teacher which built the following, and as impossible as it seemed that people could get past Jack dying, Nathan came in and made people fall in love with the Mountie again (another reason it is unbelievable that E saw N as Jack. N was his own person. The only similarity was their character and the Serge). If the writers had remained true to what viewers love about HM and the WCTH storyline in the books, it would have been ended better. A HM ending would have seen all this build up with Nathan ending in a great guy and hero getting the girl. The writers wanted to surprise and do something different than the Mountie? That is not the HM way. Why do you think HM loyal fans keep coming back time after time? Because they know they will see the great guy get the girl and even though they know this, they love watching the love story. We never grow weary of it and it is what has built up HM’s fan base and made it the success it is today. This whole triangle with a Lucas ending destroyed that trust.
I agree with all of these, but the scene that bothered me so much was after Elizabeth spoke to Lucas about his parents. He lashed out at her, a widow, and snidely commented about what would she know about love. He was upset, but the way it was performed was abusive to Elizabeth. She just took it and they acted like it never happened. To me, it was a red flag about anger issues when things don't go his way. Because the character is so underdeveloped, it is one of the only times we see him show emotion. The second time was when he told Nathan to think about Elizabeth and Allie. That was also a comment made in a repulsive or snide way.
Thank you for bringing this up. Lucas has behaved like a child when he didn't get his way. All his watching Elizabeth and Nathan's interactions out of the corner of his eye while stirring his tea cup had stalker vibes. Yes he has been charming, supportive and patient with Elizabeth. But he lacks emotional maturity. I'll chalk that up to his character and storyline being underdeveloped. Hopefully they give him more depth than just being the town's rich do-gooder in future seasons.
Yes!! And she apologized to him even though she hadn’t done anything wrong in regards to Lucas’ parents. She was keeping his mother’s secret per her request. Yet she didn’t apologize to others for things she actually did do wrong. And this was dropped...it was not even followed with Lucas pressing her in regards to her other questionable behaviour to lead to development. Again so inconsistent.
I agree- they seem to be blind to that. She went and attacked Nathan because of something Allie did (save it scene) but when Lucas actually insults her in his anger she gets over it real fast and even apologizes. How weird
@Deena Perelman, I agree with you whole heartly. The one scene that gets me is when Lucas tells Allie that he and her uncle will work it out, and Lucas' solution is to tell Nathan to "stop pressuring Elizabeth" at the reception. REALLY! what's with that!
@@thelittlescenes1185 it's the same behavior they have in season 6 after the Saloon event. She tells Lucas that her past has risked killing her, that she has a son. Then he says I am a hero and everything becomes peaceful, indeed he chooses him for the final dance. It's all a chaos, beware that with the promise that all the stories begin in one season and end in the future one, they are putting the baits and ways to keep the spectators tied. Good storylines don't need to be put off because they make the show.
He was the underdog and the one for her because they had chemistry that Lucas didn’t have with Elizabeth. All the looks weren’t just because she saw Jack in him... it was because she loved him! I just don’t understand why they did this... team Nathan is the obvious choice.
I don't either...they talk about repeated storylines being the reason........like.........are your writers that bad? And why do they think that the imdB ratings are 5 stars and 70% of watchers are unhappy with the outcome? We wanted a continuation of the Jack & Elizabeth "boring old" lovestory.
@@thelittlescenes1185 It maybe boring for others, but epic love story it could have been!! for us, die hard fans of Mountie & Teacher they could have done so much more to Nathan storyline as single dad and hero to boot, great role model for LJ !! whereas a Saloon - Gambler owner is not!
@@emydel679 it's still mind boggling how they changed the theme of the show and took it from a wonderful wholesome family show and just because a main character decided to leave ( Dan / Jack ) and it left a gaping hole in the storyline , but to alter Elizabeth's character from a deep depression to bouncing back and forth between being infatuated over two men , that came from two clearly different backgrounds , and she became more sullen at times , easily angered and agitated and she lashed out uncharacteristically towards some towns people ! They can attribute that to change in time and what she has endured but one's character should still be decent and kind ! The way they wrote the character Nathan to be grossly stomped upon by Elizabeth and for her to choose a Gambler , saloon owner over a courageous Mountie that actually helped save her life more than once , and how she broke his heart over and over again , and that farce of an ending and the immediate explosion on social media where an overwhelming 70 % of the viewers , whether team Nathan fans or just viewers that felt she would eventually follow her heart and be with Nathan ,....yes it's still mind boggling that they misled the fans , went against the 70 % that wanted her and Mountie Nathan Grant , for her to choose a Gambler saloon owner , all because they felt that it would be boring ( to the producer and writers ) , the long time loyal fans does not feel that it would be boring nor would it make the storyline stale , .....the bottom line is its the fans that brings the ratings up, but for shock value and going with what they say is " the riskier choice " ....that makes no sense to the 70 % of fans that wanted Elizabeth to be with Mountie Nathan ! They blew a golden opportunity to give the 70 % of fans a beautiful ending to season 8 and a wonderful outlook for season 9., but for many of us , season 8 will be the last one !
@@eugenecrenshaw808 Yes, strongly, totally agree w all your expressed opinion .. true and right on, I really appreciate that we TN are not 'crazy or "cultists" just bec we want Orig hero Mountie as lead per orig.WCTH Storylines. HM been bz promoting the filming, latest seen on heavy.wcth channel, they're posting all kinds of scenes and shooting now where forest fires in BC is 4 hrs away from them. there will be 12 episodes DeLuise, highlighting casts scenes/.props. Henry is back.. a scene. shows Lucas' car being fixed by Joseph Canfield..Ned and Florence, Faith, Molly and scenes in school, Bill or Carson not mentioned...Nathan maybe in sideline, wld..be interesting what they'll come up to keep fans tuned in. L fans asking for Xmas show etc..
Nothing can every undo the intentional hurt caused by the WAY season 8 was written! Fans were deliberately deceived with false hope, false clues, false promos, a false triangle etc. all for ratings! This is no longer a wholesome feel good show, frontier saga or true to the books. (a teacher and mountie) No the writing for this season BROKE TRUST! It abandoned storylines that taught life lessons, values, morals and principals....and was filled with soap opera like stories that rewarded the lead lady for bad behavior, tore down the hero that fought for love even hurting his little girl, the superficial was uplifted over the deeper connections, while many couples were bickering ....not feel good. The show had to stoop to trickery to get it's ratings ( something good, honest, wholesome, storylines NEVER have to do!) You have abandoned the good not only onscreen but in the treatment of your fans....must sign off for good!
A.Lynne, thank you, couldn't agree with you more!!! Nothing could do justice to S8 or even if Lucas will become a legendary hero for HV or mayor or lose his business as he suggested his " role be more meaty "and be like Nathan...will never be the same WCTH!
Not only did the story not flow for all of the things that you mentioned in the video (which sums up a lot of things nicely!) but Elizabeth’s character completely changed. She chose a man that took her back to her Hamilton days (which she never wanted in the past) and a man that doesn’t want children over a man that wants a family, loves her and her child. Lucas has never shown that he loves Little Jack. He has walked past him, ignored him and has told Elizabeth that SHE is the ONLY thing that matters to him. She is a package deal and there is no indication that this is accepted by the chosen suitor. There was a relationship built between Nathan and LJ from the beginning and we don’t have that with Lucas - ever. Yes, she is a woman and deserves love but even with her relationship with Nathan - as mentioned in the video - is so much deeper than what she had/has with Lucas.
@Kimberly White so very true..more we see really.and looked at how it ended! Bugles my mind! Perfectly wholesome heartwarming Story butchered...and now maybe history!! Hope not my heart still goes to the rest of casts and crews who will need employment!! 💙
I think what confused me the most was that the theme with Nathan was that love is worth fighting for and you have to face your fears. So when it wasn't Nathan, it felt like the story told me that love Isn't worth fighting for and you should choose what's most comfortable instead of facing those fears. And I know Lucas kinda touched on that theme when he broke up with her saying " You've always maintained love is worth fighting for and that includes when it needs defending." And you could argue that Elizabeth had to face the fear of loving again with Lucas too, but that's not the way the story was told, do that's where the story failed most for me.
I really didnt like Lucas's break up speech, I didnt understand it. I didnt understand why he said she maintained love was worth fighting for but didnt sound like he agreed. It sounded like he contradicted himself in his statements. I did not go back and listen to it, so that was just my first impression. I used to watch every episode twice, but I only watched a couple this season, I just felt unsettled, like getting off a dizzy amusement park ride after every episode and not excited or interested to re-watch. There were only a few times I thought the show was great, the speech Nathan gave about why he served to honor the families of the fallen and most of the scenes with Joseph or Bill. But most of the season at best was boring.
Thanks for highlighting so many of the concerns I've had over the season as a whole. Top on the list has to be this buckshot approach where they cram way too many story lines into one episode and fail to develop the core stories that we're most interested in. Second on my list is the change in tone of the show. It went from heartwarming with solid values and characters to more of a soap opera with the emphasis on creating angst. There were precious few happy story lines and the season was almost devoid of humor - another lamentable loss. Third on my list is truth of character and this season was a disaster when it came to Elizabeth. She became someone I'd just as soon leave behind instead of the solid force in the show, and I don't buy this business of chalking everything up to her grieving. For heaven's sake, Jack died 3 years ago and she wasn't grieving like that in season 7. It was all trumped up to create angst. I used to recommend the show to anyone who'd listen and I always said that this was the best written series I'd ever watched. Not so anymore. Makes me wonder if they really knew their audience when they made the leadership change for season 8.
So well said! You nailed it. Every single thing you said!! The "grieving Elizabeth" shows up out of nowhere three years later? That really bothered me as well.
MariV Your words are so true. Unbelievable storyline. Elizabeth really doesn’t know much about Lucas for him to be her forever love. That is because the writers did not develop a real and genuine relationship. It was all about the romantic gestures without truly getting into the trenches together where you learn about one another or at least work on things together and get to see how you respond to one another.
Exactly, she shared her “tough stuff” with Nathan the whole series...not Lucus... so confusing. I wondered the same thing, why the heck would she say, tell Allie I still think you’re impeccable...she’s never gonna speak to her again? That was unnecessary drama. I agree with your summarization. The red herrings threw the whole show...nothing made sense.
Thank you so much again for this high quality analysis, dear Little Scenes. Always a great pleasure to listen and watch your videos and I am not saying that just because I fully agree with your vision :) If I was Lucas, I would be very annoyed to trust Elizabeth after all that and could not believe in her "true love" and future devotion. The way she was interacting with Nathan during the whole season 8 was more than a simple conversation with a ghost ...there was so much intensity in the scenes with him that both Team Nathan and Team Lucas were convinced that Nathan will be her choice... I also find Nathan a lot more funny, sorry but I am so bored in advance by Lucas and by this couple. And I am afraid that in order to catch up the poor finale of season 8, they will deteriorate his character in season 9. They already started with this stupid conversation where Nathan is the one who announces Elizabeth's choice to Lucas! WCTH production should really stop victimizing. The more they are trying to make fans guilty the more we can see they are afraid of future bad scoring for season 9. This season 8 really got on my nerves and it is also spoiling previous seasons 6 and 7. I can not give consistency to the whole triangle package, I am sorry. No hard feelings but I am out, that 's IT.
Yup, agree. Brian Birds behavior is unacceptable and it's even more unacceptable that Hallmark supports his behavior... They did a 180 on Nathan's character so Lucas is definitely next. They will change him completely like they already did in Season 7...and yes, it's boring
Yes, if and I think this one may materialize, ratings tanking down on S9, with FANS turning away from WCTH, more than what happened after Jack died, blame it on the TPTB, whoever was the motivator to change the "good old fashion redundant Mountie n Teacher storyline " will be really sorry. Too bad because casts and crews are really one good happy family, out of jobs!!
@@thelittlescenes1185 agree !! But too late...fans are finding and rewatching All of Kevin McGarry's HM movies....am ok coz I have subscribed to Superchannel and all HM movies are there. Love All movies Kevin has done! He has so many sides to him, intense & playful, so romantic and kidlike fun too...those eyes!
@@emydel679 yep! Exactly! It’s a sure way to kill your audience! Quit making them choose!! Quit making them fight!! Triangles can be done right. I’ve seen them done right in the past with other shows and movies. It’s all because you know without a shadow of a doubt that two of those people are meant and WILL BE TOGETHER! This was just all false hope when team Nathan wasn’t prepared for the complete 180! A freaking slap in the face!
It was even written that Nathan thanked Elizabeth in the end of the breaking up scene... and it was Kevin Mc Garry who thought that this didn't feel right so he didn't do it. So yes, storytelling did suck...your examples and explanations are great they explain what we feel or felt cause I for my part now changed to watch the series "Once upon a time"😄
Seems like Kevin is the only one from the show that realized how ridiculous it would be for Nathan to thank Elizabeth. The truth is Elizabeth should be begging Nathan to forgive her for her treatment of him.
@Little screens. I'm glad Kevin didn't say thank you. I thought he acted the scene well. Saying thank you would have been inappropriate. Most man wouldn't say thank you when their heart is breaking. The writing this season didn't work for me.
How can you write a character that clearly loves Elizabeth and she literally disses him repeatedly , lying about being sick to back out on a date , to shout at him in front if the towns people because she wanted to find out about Fort Clay, and when Allie tricked them into being the only ones at the adoption ceremony , she abruptly assumed that he knew , and that was horrible on her part ! Why did they write her character to become a bratty spoiled rude thing ! It's ridiculous how the team Gambler fans only see the artificial tangible surface things that he did wooing her and using flattery ! Some were even saying that he was a more maturer one , but he showed insecurity issues and strange jealousy by creepy watching her every movement with Nathan and then questioning her repeatedly ! Who does that but someone thats emotionally insecure ! His jealousy of Nathan is ridiculous and when she ran into Nathan's arms , it upset him so much that he was disturbed and it caused him to leave town for over 2 months without any explanations nor good byes , but after he returned then he made a lousy excuse knowing that he had her nose wide open and she accepted his excuse !SMH ! They can paint the gambler as this perfect person that " always thinking of her first " ( sic ) but we the team Nathan fans are straight through him and now through her too ! How do you ruin a perfectly good wholesome family show and turn it into a harlequin teeny romance novel or a soap.opera ? Why ????
In my opinion, all of that junk with pinkertons, canfields, landis, wyman walden, blah, blah, blah is all a bad cover for knowing how angry people would be over the choice of lucas - that we'd tune in for the next season to see all those other dumb stories. I have no interest. The whole thing is about Elizabeth. They developed Nathan's character and not Lucas's. I don't get the Lucas choice at all. Yes, all that mess she said to Nathan...ugh! How awful. How cringe-worthy. I'm so sorry to say this, but they lost me as a viewer. They had Elizabeth all out of character all over the place. I have no investment in her anymore. John Tinker, you really missed a good chance. Clearly you made it up as you went along. It's not that I don't like the choice. It's that the season was a cheapened, poor version of the overall story that didn't make sense. It made me wish I'd not wasted so much time I'll never get back.
I understand what you see and im in agreement that they did a poor job of making the show reflect how the fans wanted it to be , but to manufacture an unrealistic ending with her breaking Nathans heart over and over again , and to fall for the charm, flattery , wine and dine , the trinkets and the artificial attempt at financing romancing, it's like Billy Hamilton all over again except this time they are trying to make a former cad into a respectable towns member and also to be the second most important character as Jack was ! This is mind boggling to say the least ! I was done with the show after that finale ! That's just me though !
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I commend you on your analyses, you are SPOT ON! Here are big issues I have! In Season 8. In episode 2, the horse scene, these things were said that tells me Mr John Tinker and others must GO! Why would Elizabeth say; 1. "It would hurt too much if I lost you, the way I lost Jack!" 2. "I can't stay, or it will only make it harder to leave!" 3. Flees and cried in the field in Anguish! 4. Elizabeth tells Rosemary that she doesn't know what would of happened, had she not left! If she wasn't in love with Nathen, why all of this, in only one episode? There are hundreds of such communications! Lucas knew that Elizabeth was in love with Nathen and was bothered by it! Lucas has Skeletons in his closet! Mr. Tinker needs to Go, he does not write good story lines, he likes to toil with people's common sense, which tells me he has a warped imagination! He completely destroyed Elizabeth's character, and the entire story line! John Tinker Must go! I will no longer follow When Calls the Heart. If season 9 ever makes it out, and is successful, I will be surprised! But I will not watch it!
You are spot on! Writer is most to blame if not all TPTB& BB!! Actors have to do what they're given as part of their contract...Sad to say that in doing what they did, Erin, Chris got most of the negative criticisms...feel bad but it is what it is!!
@@thelittlescenes1185 yeah you're right...this show brought me so much joy from S 1 to 7 until S 8 when I myself, affected me personally became so negative, even saying things that I don't usually entertain, - felt bad abt it. It touched.my soul my spiritual values/ being (christian) to feel so harsh and badly towards Erin, the writer - BB and TBTB that helped the demise of a wholesome, clean compassionate tv show into "cheap soapy drama type.."
Your last point hit the nail on the head. Rant alert 🚨🚨: Elizabeth was A BRAT AND A HALF!! I couldn’t stand her in season 8. Her behavior was absolute crap! She should know better and should have behaved better. She was rude to Nathan. She was rude to Rosemary. I get it, she lost her husband. That has to be one of the worst things ever. But like you said, she’s not the only one who lost someone. Nathan lost his sister. Allie lost her mom. Little Jack lost his dad. Lee lost his best friend. Imagine Rosemary’s mixed emotions when Jack died. She grieved for her friend Elizabeth but at the same time, she lost an ex-fiancée who had become a friend. Elizabeth’s entire behavior this season is inexcusable. In fact, her character was so different, it almost felt like another actress portraying her. I cringed every time she came on the screen. I literally hated her character this season. She became my LEAST favorite character in season 8. While she was never my #1 fave (that spot is reserved for the amazing incomparable Lee Coulter ❤️❤️), she was in my top 5. I genuinely felt I was Team Elizabeth at the end of season 7. I leaned towards Nathan, but truly, whoever made her happy, I was okay with. By the end of season 8, I was actually HOPING she would screw up big time and lose both men. That would teach the spoiled brat a lesson! Season 8 Elizabeth was not the Elizabeth Jack fell in love with and married. Season 8 Elizabeth was not the woman who birthed little Jack. All your points were right on. Nathan was cheated. Allie was cheated. Little Jack was cheated. TeamNathan was cheated. Rant over.
Just to point out that, S1 started with valley full of women, who just lost their husbands and sons in a traumatic death, left behind with young children and totally dissipating their economic and social safety net. I don’t recall any of the widows behaving in as disagreeable manner as Elizabeth did in S8, and she is supposed to be the protagonist with the moral compass.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You've taken the words right out of my mouth! What's wrong with season 8 has nothing to do with Nathan or Lucas or who owns the saloon or who is the mountie, but it has everything to do with continuity and storytelling. One thing that I had a major issue with that you haven't covered yet was Lucas's line before they kissed. "I hoped I'd find you here." I can't even begin. He hoped that he would find Elizabeth distraught on the bridge because he left town? What? He hoped he'd find her crying alone at the bridge? Why else would he think she would be there? Did he even actually intend on leaving town? I have two theories: 1.Lucas actually sold the saloon, packed his things, and drove away, only to realize he made a mistake and went back to look for Elizabeth. 2. He never actually sold the saloon or packed all his things, and locked up the saloon and drove away as some sort of test to see if she loves him maybe. But why would he leave without even taking to her or asking her how she felt? He just assumed and left, which is a reoccurring theme with him. After Elizabeth hugged Nathan, he assumed she chose him and left for a few months to sort out his feelings. After watching all those interactions between her and Nathan, he assumed she still had feelings for him and broke things off. But he never asked, and neither did Nathan. In fact, no one really asked Elizabeth where her heart was. Someone could have asked her if it was Nathan or Lucas, but no one did. I don't really understand why. If it is still "I don't know" when she is with Lucas, that's a major red flag. If Elizabeth, after dating Lucas for months, is still telling Rosemary that she is lost, something is up. And what was her ah ha moment when she finally realized who was her lifetime? Was it Lucas thinking about selling the saloon? The serge scene? Lucas leaving her? The book opening? I'm not really sure. What made her realize? If she felt that it was Lucas all along, she wouldn't be so confused. Season 8 was stressful and confusing. My heart goes out to all you. Team Nathan forever!
@Paige: I agree with you, Lucas tried to escape at least twice being afraid of Elizabeth not choosing him. And it is an interesting thought that he might have already sold the saloon. It is enough proof of how bad the writing/storytelling is, that we have theories about this. Anyways why is the bridge so important for them to meet there? For real... there was no talk about feelings there.. About your other topic: Nathan asked Elizabeth about her feelings (Se7 Ep.1) at the pond - talking about her heart. It had double meaning - it was not only about her real feelings, but also inspiring her to write about being a mother. One of my favorite scenes. #TeamNathan
I wish they would explain what her 'AH HA' moment was because I cant figure it out but I am NOT going to rewatch to try to understand. AND I think they had 2 stories to explain why she DID NOT have true love with Lucas. The Rachel/Christopher story showed that true love is more quickly established than this long drawn out dating they were doing and might I point out they NEVER had a DATE, either, actually neither did Florence and Ned, and they also had true love from friendship, no dating. Also the Fiona story explaining why she ended her engagement, that she was head over heels at first but then there was nothing really there!! Easy peasy and to explain why Lucas was just a season, but nothing to explain how he suddenly knew her so well with no real conversations. I think the original story had Nathan and Jesse lost and her and Clara realizing they would rather have the time with their true loves than none at all and when they finally show back up they have the 'Ah ha' moment with Nathan. We have so many more creative people that I am sure could come up with her moment with Nathan but that one makes sense why they had Jesse lost AGAIN!!
Wow, Nathan and Jesse being lost in the mountains is how much better story than what we got! Definitely a better one than Elizabeth telling 3times (to Clara, Ned and Katie) to love wholeheartedly is worth the risk and herself not taking the (foreshadowed) risk (of the Emerson poem) at the end.
Thank you Ellie! Missed your editorials. This season was totally full of angst fir me and so many others. None of it made sense as you pointed out. So many loose ends and not at all what we came to expect from this series. To add to yoir comments. What about Jesse and Clara. In prior seasons when someone was missing, particularly a husband, we would have found the women of HV gathered together to support Clars as she was in distress until they found him safe. Instead, she was serving breakfast to customers totally nonchalantly. Excuse me!! Your husband is missing and could be hurt!! Instead pack your bags and get ready for a vacation. Still scratching my head on that one. Another thing so unbelievable.
The Clara and Jesse thing was totally insane! Let's also talk about how apparently only Nathan was the only one looking for Jesse after day 1 while everyone else gathered to say goodbye to Carson. Not the same HV community from the past for sure!!
That's right Catie! I agree. Not only would the women console Clara but the men would be searching for Jesse as well. Look when Jack went missing and Lee as well. We had a different HV when it was in Alfonso's hands. That was the HV that made us fall in love with the series!
@DianaVolcsey You make a very good point! If I remember correctly in season 7 "In to the woods". Clara went looking for Jesse as well as Rosemary. Why didn't she do that in season 8? Such a disjointed season, and sooooooo unbelievable!
Unrealistic soap opera style. Nathan was done wrong. and they made him look so stupid . Helping Lucus? He would have been screaming and kicking, Elizabeth should move back to Hamilton because she is no longer a Hope valley woman. I think the writers were used to doing soap operas Season 8 was the worst ever. I will not be watching season 9. I'm done.
I agree with all of this. If the story made sense, I wouldn’t care who she picked. Elizabeth in the last episode was just cruel. The scenes in the jail and the saloon were hard to watch. I have a hard time with the scenes like “love is worth fighting for” and the I love yous to make sense when she picks Lucas in the end. I’m sad that we won’t get to see the blended family storyline- that would’ve been something new. I hope that Nathan ignores Elizabeth for the beginning of the season so she will apologize and that her and Lucas will deal with some of their issues and talk about Jack.
Elizabeth cant have her cake and eat it too. She cant say she loves Nathan and then waltz off with Lucas! Being a widow of 6 years myself and knowing how your whole world can be turned upside down and how you can make silly decisions that seem right at the time. Then you look back later and think "what in the world was I thinking". I know this is true in real life because Ive been through it. It takes years and years to re-invent yourself and start making sense out of everything.
@@joantolmie7401 I agree with you. I too have been widowed for 6 years, and it just doesn't go away. I know it is different with everyone, but after 45 years of marriage it's a whole new life style change.
Everything you have said and more.....totally agree! If WCTH had better writers they could have united their fan base with Elizabeth's choice but instead wrote a beautiful story for Nathan and Elizabeth...threw it out the window and had her choose Lucas???? The storyline should have led all viewers to a believable conclusion and made both men reasonably happy! This was all about ratings....viewers were used and abused. Sorry but my self respect moves me to leave UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS....no longer trust the writers! No longer a feel good, wholesome show!
Thank you for making this video as another means for us to express the reasons why we are so upset by what happened in the finale (and this season as a whole). I agree with everything you said. There were so many inconsistences! I would normally say it was just a bad show and forget about it but I can’t get past it because WCTH has been such an incredibly good show that I’ve come to love so much that I just can’t leave it at that. They have written such uplifting, powerful stories for 7 seasons and it’s really hard to believe they were this careless with season 8. For the record, I like all of the actors including Chris and like Lucas as a character in Hope Valley. I am just so confused and these are some of the things that really bother me: 1) The WCTH format was changed. For the past 7 seasons we’ve been getting meaningful cohesive storylines that include a few select stories running over the course of many episodes for development and other plots that were explored in depth and wrapped up within an episode or two always leaving us satisfied and with hope. This season, I was left feeling anxious and stressed at the end of each episode. There were so many conflicts most without resolution episode after episode. As great as it is to have such a wonderful ensemble cast, trying to have almost everyone in every single episode meant that each person barely got a couple of minutes of screen time and all of their stories were dragged out. I thought everything was being dragged out for a reason and I thought the reason would be that the stories would get intertwined and depend on each other for resolution and that everything would work out to leave us feeling good at the end. Needless to say that did not happen at all! The themes that had been brought up i.e. “love is worth fighting for”, “face your fears to experience your greatest joy”, “don’t give up” became meaningless. Meanwhile we got some other random scenes that didn’t contribute to all these running stories or help them in any way at all i.e. the runaway horse; Rachel getting lost; Jesse getting lost in the woods; Clara asking why Florence came back from her honeymoon alone…etc. And since Elizabeth didn’t choose Nathan, all the scenes about Katie not wanting Ned to get married became pointless too. Not to mention other storylines that could’ve been taken out all together to allow for more time to develop the main story that everyone was interested in and making it so that EVERYONE could understand it and be satisfied. For example, the whole Rachel and Christopher storyline could be taken out in the interest of time since they were new characters that we weren’t attached to anyway.
2) Erin Krakow’s wonderful acting skills were not used properly. She was amazing at being convincing in being interested in both Nathan and Lucas throughout the past three seasons. They thought this was good because they could keep up the suspense until the finale. But this is NOT a good thing because it means we as the audience have no way of logically following the story being told. If we don’t get a window into the thoughts of the main character, of course we’re going to be left confused! This show is not meant to be a psychological thriller so this approach was extremely ineffective save for getting everyone to watch the finale. Erin’s acting made it seem like in alternate universes Elizabeth could be smitten by each. But unless you cut out the other guy’s scenes altogether this does not make sense. It is not believable for a smart, mature, well-read, kind, GOOD woman to be torn between two guys and lead them on through her interested/flirtatious behavior (longing looks count!!!) for 3 years UNLESS there was a huge obstacle between her and the one her heart really wanted and the other was a very attractive logical option. So, because Lucas is caring, thoughtful, handsome, rich, says all the right things, has a safe job and has no baggage he would be the clear attractive logical option. Nathan clearly has the big obstacle because he’s a Mountie and Elizabeth’s husband died while on duty. This is the only way “being torn” and “lost” could be acceptable for a GOOD character. If Elizabeth was a flaky teenager or a shallow player who only cared about getting attention then they could have her lead on as many guys as she liked. If they wanted her to be with Lucas and absolutely insisted on having a triangle, then the triangle should have only lasted a few episodes and once Elizabeth had realized both guys were interested (which happened late in season 6 and very clearly by the middle of season 7), she should have quickly changed her behavior towards Nathan. She could’ve directly said she’s not interested, or could have simply avoided any unnecessary encounters and behaved the way she does to any other men in town to make it clear she was not interested in him romantically.
3) “I was looking for Jack in you.” I cannot even begin to express how ridiculous this reason was to me. We got absolutely no indication of this throughout the past three years. Even the serge scene in season 8 episode 11 was not indicative of this because she was literally talking about Jack TO Nathan and we had never seen Elizabeth warm up or button Jack’s serge. The audience needs to be brought along for the ride! We need to feel and see the story not just be told this is what it was! If they wanted us to believe this, then we should have seen her say or do things that she did with Jack going back all the way to season 6 or at least the beginning of season 8. We should have seen her refer to him as “Jack” accidently either directly to him or when talking about him to Rosemary for example. And this would also only be believable if it was early on. There were absolutely zero hints about Elizabeth thinking she was getting Jack back with Nathan. Especially since we very often saw Nathan and Elizabeth interact when he was not in uniform. The only scene I can think of that could be her “seeing Jack” could be the one where she spots him riding by from the school when Lucas is there asking her to lunch (s8e11). That is not nearly enough for this reasoning to be believable. It’s not even like Nathan was in any way similar to Jack at all. It is not believable again for a smart, mature woman like Elizabeth to not be able to see past the uniform for so long even despite the grief.
4) Elizabeth’s personality change with total disregard to other people’s feelings! She was not at all like the Elizabeth we knew. Yes, grief and trauma will affect a person but you wouldn’t expect this abrupt personality change years after the incident (Jack’s death). If the trauma was Nathan almost getting shot, then that means she does in fact love Nathan. What bothers me even more is that even if she was short with people and reacted badly, she didn’t even go back to apologize and make it up to them after the fact! Even her apology to Rosemary was not satisfying to me because she waited until she needed someone to talk to….a better place for a sincere apology and a few tears of regret for her horrid behavior would’ve been after Joseph asked her about Rosemary and she realized how far she’d taken that argument. Also, after she ran off In episode 2, Elizabeth didn’t even try to talk to Nathan to apologize for leaving abruptly, see how he’s doing, clarify that she wasn’t interested and didn’t want to hurt him…AND have a good talk with Allie. Plus, even when Nathan rode by as she was telling Lucas she was ready for a “date-date”, she gave a big smile to Lucas as if she did not care that Nathan was hurt at all. This behavior would’ve only been acceptable to me if she was forcing herself to not care that he was upset to guard her own heart. But if she actually didn’t care, this is completely out of character for her.
5) I feel good, consistent, cohesive storytelling was thrown out the window either because of a last minute change or just because they wanted suspense. They built up angst all throughout seasons 6-8 and then wiped it all away with pretty much “oh yeah never mind I was never really interested in you” making so many other scenes silly and pointless: What was up with the hand game at the bachelorette party? What was the point of bringing up the “facing your fears” theme knowing that was the quote Nathan had chosen to give her? Why did she insist on having the conversation with him after the cabin incident because she needed him to know that she only “ended up in Union City with Lucas because he asked”? Why was she prodding him for a date? Why did she come up to him right before he was waiting for the prisoner transfer and smile happily when he finally asked her out before hesitating in what could only be assumed to be nervousness since “things became real”? Why did she say “it would hurt too much if I lost you the way I lost Jack”? And “I can’t”? Why did she pursue him and demanded to talk over and over again even when he was busy i.e. about to go under cover, during Bill’s send-off? It is a very important point to note that Nathan never pursued her. Not when he first arrived in HV and not at all after she ran away from him. But he did show in words and facial expression that he had fallen in love with her despite trying not to. He also said “I know you feel the same way I do” and “love is always worth fighting for” to Elizabeth (which is what she had said to Helen) and then of course there was the random totally out of place line in ep12 where Nathan tells Lucas “I always knew her heart was with you” HUH???? This makes zero sense. Episode 12 was just so inconsistent and disjointed from everything else in the series.
6) “Love is patient” is the theme they were pushing about Lucas and Elizabeth. In what way was Lucas patient that Nathan wasn’t? Lucas didn’t back off when Elizabeth said she did not want to date. He put on her scarf for her at the Union City dinner even though they were going “as friends”, he arranged a “pretend date” and did everything he would do on a date including filling the place with romantic candles, then once he saw she hugged Nathan he didn’t talk to her again then left for months only to come back and continue the same behavior (even though he sorted things out?)….she said she needed to go slow but he tried to kiss her the next time they were together; he tried to hold her hand in public and complained about the fact that she withdrew. I have no problem with Lucas as a character in HV and like Chris the actor. It’s just that the theme makes no sense!!! I think it makes sense that he would want to try to get her to like him and then want to hold her hand and that he would be jealous and insecure to know that she’s not committed while they are dating but this doesn’t make him particularly patient. I would easily argue that Nathan is the more patient of the two (just read Sheila’s wonderful letter to Hallmark)…and I only mention this because they kept bringing up this quality in Lucas otherwise it doesn’t really matter which is patient. They each have wonderful qualities. It matters who they showed us has her heart.
Thank you for this!! All of your points are spot on and just clarifies all the reasons season 8 went wrong and was messed up. I think the writer's made mistakes throughout the season and ended up being a huge dissapointment.
It doesn't even make sense. Elizabeth in the early years made a big deal to her parents at dinner explaining that Jack hardly drinks. For her, based on the old Elizabeth and the character we saw before season 8, to now pick a saloon owner, doesn't match... at all.
All of this is what I wish I could tell EVERYONE! I thought I was the only one who thought this. It was really disappointing to me the way things were written. I wish that they could have at least written the story so that fans had some sort of closure. That was the purpose of the whole season, and they didn't accomplish it. She chose between Lucas and Nathan, but there were so many subplots, arguments, and issues that were never resolved. Nothing made sense, and there were so many plot holes. Thank you for sharing this video. It helps so much to know I'm not the only one who saw this.
You definitely are not! Thinking back to it always makes me shake my head - even professionals can mess up big time…but the whole damage control is even worse than the mess up now
Anna, You weren’t the only one who saw it that way, in fact, I think you were in the majority. So many storylines went unresolved. I believe a big part of the problem was not deciding who Elizabeth would choose before the season started. By having to write toward two possible endgames in the first half of the season, neither was sufficiently developed and they never caught up. You would think experienced professionals would never make that kind of mistake.
@@ehoffman2260 I agree. I do think it shoud have been decided in the beginning. Even if it hadn't been decided until after they started writing, they could have polished things up before filming, that way the story would have flowed better. I'd also like to know why we got all this drama surrounding Nathan that didnt ever get truly resolved. In my opinion, characters should have conflict with one another to help each other grow. Nathan and Elizabeth couldn't stop challenging one another all season and what did we get out of it? Oh forget all the conflict none of it meant anything. Let's just go with the guy who doesn't wear a red surge and move on like nothing happened. It just doesn't even feel realistic to me.
@@annanorlanderauthor Exactly, They had Nathan’s life in turmoil constantly and then didn’t even get closure on most of it. And why would they put Nathan through so much if he’s not going to be the choice? It seemed like he had to justify everything and no one else had to justify anything. As you said, Nathan and Elizabeth challenged each other all season long. On the other hand, Elizabeth let Lucas avoid tough conversations time after time. That’s not how you build a lasting relationship. It didn’t make any sense to me at all. I have to tell you, when I read your initial comment, it really struck me because after I watched episode 12, I thought to myself, am I the only one who thinks this whole season was totally unrealistic.Then I started reading the avalanche of comments. (Maybe we’re not crazy after all. LOL) Hope all is well with you.
I support your channel so much. ♥️ but because this season was handled so badly in that last and final episode, and because the execs on the show shut down on any comments about how genuinely upset we are and cheated we feel, I can’t keep watching When Calls The Heart. It was just overwhelmingly disappointing that I trusted the writing all the way up until the last episode and they abandoned all storyline decisions at the last minute. And I genuinely believe Elizabeth should be ashamed of herself for how she handled these two suitors and especially how she never apologized to Allie. I can’t support her character anymore, she was a terrible disappointment this season.
I am glad I am not the only one who does not like Elizabeth any longer. She has morphed into an unlikeable spoiled brat, and people were calling Allie a brat! They have truly spoiled this show and made the characters and storylines cringeworthy. I really would not mind if Elizabeth and Lucas left the show or moved out of Hope Valley.
The writing was definitely all over the place this season which made the “love triangle” storyline very inconsistent. I didn’t see it as a love triangle at all!!! For me, I think the show missed out on a great storyline opportunity this past season. If they had no intention of putting Elizabeth with another Mountie, I think they should have introduced a young Mountie and his new bride to Hope Valley! That would have been a great storyline to build on especially with having Elizabeth helping them navigate the dangers and struggles that the new couple would be facing, having gone through it herself. Then Elizabeth’s relationship with Lucas would have been more accepting to us fans. I love the show and the actors are fantastic in their roles but in my opinion, they took a risk in taking the show in a different direction last season and it completely backfired on them!
So Ellie, thank you..... this does express a lot of the stuff I’ve thought about. And I also totally agree that I would have gladly sacrificed the Rachel/Christopher story line in order to finish up the triangle in a more satisfactory manner. I also feel the story telling in season 8 was a disaster. After a difficult pandemic year I needed a happy show. I was not on Team Nathan at the beginning of the season, but his declaration of love in episode 2 started swaying me and I was a goner by the parent teacher conference. I feel the following episodes did much to keep Nathan’s hope alive even though Elizabeth was dating Lucas. I personally grew to admire Nathan more and more as he persevered under the fire of season 8’s events. I feel the storyline clearly led us to want Nathan and to be faithful to Nathan. I grew to care for him very much and now I realize I care for him more than his creators. The season finale was one of worst viewing experiences I’ve ever had. Watching Elizabeth dump Nathan with such immature words and then swing suddenly to passionately kissing Lucas, was an emotional whiplash that left me feeling nauseated and confused and led to sleepless nights for a week. WCTH I am now a guarded heartie, I don’t trust you. I love Nathan and Allie enough to want to see them in season 9, but only if I can read the reviews before I watch to known if it will be a safe viewing experience and not more heartbreak.
Yes! Another weird thing: Nathan was way more patient than Lucas, so how can they use the "Love is patient" theme for the L&E storyline. Lucas was getting to date her, hold her hand, spend quality time with her. Nathan was holding on to the little bit of hope she had left him when she didn't answer to his "I know you feel the same way I do"...he was truly a patient man. Lucas was being way too avoidant- he had a right to tell Elizabeth that her behavior was hurting him. Instead he let it out on Nathan
I'm not sure you will see more of Nathan and Allie.They have to spend time trying to give depth to Lucas and convince the viewers he is the right choice for Elisabeth.
I agree with your comments Jennifer. "If" I watch S9 it will be because of Nathan, Allie and some of those wonderful characters we've come to love. They created total chaos with that awful heartbreaking conclusion. I doubt it can be fixed, they all seem to be thrilled with that ending. I don't trust the writers to be able to write themselves out of that corner.
Bernardine Jolly, June 2, 2021 It is almost a month since the end of S8 on May 9. I have reviewed almost every day episodes from S6 and S7 and have gone back to watch again S8. In April I found watching WCTH extremely stressful. I took the time to learn who the producers and the writers were. I fully intend to study your excellent analysis of what went wrong with S8. I wish to point out additional storylines which were dropped. During the Mountie inquiry Bills says several times to Nathan that the Inspector has a personal vendetta against you. My question is whether Nathan discovered the Inspector knew the training exercise was too dangerous and was he responsible for Jack Thornton's death. Bill states that he is going to look into it further. Is that why the inspector wants to have Nathan removed from the Mounties? Considering the strange out-of-character episode 12, I include, Elizabeth, Lucas, and Nathan, the entire set of scenes with Elizabeth speaking with Katie and Ned makes no sense. ""Our greatest risk is our greatest joy". "Life is brief and often unexpected." Elizabeth is either lying to herself or she is totally without any self-awareness. Another scene which I found totally distasteful was putting Mountie Nathan with Faith. Landis, the school inspector, said, if he had to he would replace Elizabeth with another teacher. This is a possible storyline with a new teacher and Mountie Nathan, it just would not be Elizabeth Thornton. Regardless of where S9 goes with the various stories, Mountie Nathan will still be the leading man story.
When JT was asked on his "live," if there was any more to the story of Inspector Hargraves and FortClay, he said, "Yes there is." I wonder how long we have to wait for the rest of that story?
Hi everyone! Add to the ongoing list of inconsistencies and bad writing in a respectful manner.
Side note: toxic positivity is not welcome here.
Side note: don’t list reasons why Lucas was the right choice - this video isn’t about choice so much as it is about the story leading up to that choice.
Side note: if you’re gonna start a fight, don’t comment.
Also in the video I mention that Erin in an interview said they wouldn’t continue grieving Jack, of course that wasn’t in Episode 6 - I meant to say SEASON 6. I hope we can all look at Season 8 for what it really was: a rushed mess.
If you are Team Lucas, think twice about what you’re going to comment - don’t be rude, I will delete your comment. Consider what I said in my video: the ending was satisfying for you but not for all of us. That’s an issue because we watch WCTH to feel good, not to feel cheated. And unfortunately the show didn’t make us feel good at all.
Thank you.
The little Scenes, very well said & nicely put. I am with you 100%...its not about even E & L anymore, its just the inconsistency, disjointed relationship or connections between the 3 or even some of the couples...am not a writer by any means but it does smack of poor writing, as you say on the part of TPTB to end it the way it did - the actors may not have a say ! ..all on the HM Executives and BB, Crowm Media Executives! Anyway this will not go away until we will see how S 9 will pan out. Whoch is not until 2022, The true HEARTIES may not have that patience or time to wait for them to right the wrong they've subjected the Fans, esp the TN...just my 2 cents. Thank you so much for your constructive and kind words for all fans, Team N, team L or Team E or HV...Blessings and peace to you.
Nathan belongs with Elizabeth as Nathan is much like Jack in many ways. Nathan is in many ways like Jack and they are looks are looking like Jack, having a tender heart, also loving heart towards Allie in raising her up to be a responsible adult for her actons towards others.I believe the actions of
Allie need to be addressed further in Season 9. Lucas is no way a match for Eliabeth as he has not any compassion for baby Jack, and has not any emotional contact Baby Jack Also doesn't any true feelings towards Elizabeth as he shows not a true meaning of love towards Elizazabeth
. The writers need to read the Janette Oke' s bbok series to see how the book series is really written for the public to enjoy. I enjoyed the book series so the public needs the television series as well,too!
@@karentabor8217 yes they have to read the stories. But with the blessing of J Oke, they wrote theirs onw stories with her characters😏
@@karentabor8217 Totally agree! Thebook is why the orig show was started and then into a series...and successfully!! Its a story that cannot be replicated by moving on to anothr themes other than the "Mountie and the Teacher" its why pple like me who is old, strong spiritual values and not into TVs soapy tv shows was smitten!! HM started really good and the storylines were good family values were entrenched. You cannot change the orig book by Janette Oke into the way it is heading now coz, pple like me invested into goodness and life learning experiences theHV represented intge prev seasons ..until S 8, 180 degree turn around !!they cheapened !!the heroine and hero characters of the show! Shocking, CRUEL and inconsiderate when they knew all along that Nathan was heavily favored as end game!!All for shock value..as BB " said end game will "roll and gasp " wasn't that awful. All we wanted was a great story based on true love, and helping E find her happiness and security for her son, ...Everything they did was to divide the Hearties and create so many animosity over the writer and the TPTB...End game shd have been much clearer after 2nd N declaration ..writer shd have allowed L and E go fwd with a good storyline that was believable instead at the last minute they even portrayed L as conniving and he never professed his love to E ..so not right and then dumped N like that..not too many lines either. for Nathan ". Loser took it like a Champ" was scripted so badly....this will never be righted and pple don't trust HM - BB or JT, HM executives for that matter for allowing this to happen!! Think abt IT, what other periods shows...like this, are still around? HM Butchered Janette Oke's book!! Even if she agreed to the new direction, I believe she must be not happy with HOW the 70% HEARTIES ARE TAKING IT! my 2 cents if it counts😊
I've tried to be ok with the whole L and E scenario, but I just can't get the bad taste out of my mouth. I really can't stand the thought of L and E being together. I've went back to try to watch the scenes with E and N I enjoyed and can't enjoy them anymore because I know the final outcome. I really hate that it ended up the way it did. Why couldn't they have been kinder and brought another person for Nathan in sooner so that everyone could've been happy. I can't stomach watching anymore. I'm really sad that one of the shows I really liked is no more.
Precisely. This could have ended like in Episode 4/5
You know I just want to keep the best. The show great from season 1to 5. After😏😏 so I forgot all the scenes with the other guy. Nathan and Elisabeth were very connected and that's for me the most important. I don't want to see something else. I still feel hurt but I'm going on.
I totally agree.
They couldn't do it. O E / N as main characters and ok. But with E / L, they risked having a new couple who would have liked more than the one chosen by the authors. And it would have been a failure for them.
@@orsetta7219 I totally agree.
Besides all the disappointing moments in the season 8, there are a few exciting scenes. My favorite ones are when Nathan told Allie that he’s going to adapt her and when she defended him before the Mounties. It made me cry.
And of course the wedding of Florence and Ned was so delightful and sweet. I loved to watch their love grow during the last few seasons.
Another good point: the adoption storyline got dropped so fast- that would’ve been more interesting than the Pinkerton
The problem as far as I’m concerned is the whole season was based on Elizabeth and Lucas. Actors were given stupid storylines just to keep them on. Why did Jesse get lost? How in the world did Ned invent the bandaid dumb? Bill and Molly could have had an interesting beginning to a possible romance. Instead we were subjected to picnics dinners early morning horse back rides and immature dialogue. I hope Paul is not gone but he too was given a dumb story line going back and forth going staying etc. if that’s the case another actor lost because of a boring couple.
Tatayana, it is always good to look for the positives in everything. Thank you for your post. It's just too bad that they are over shadowed with all the bad decisions made by the writers. Even Allie's adoption was not given the attention it deserved. The Canfields will be a joy. Rosemary and Lee are always fun and add so much to the show. But their storyline was cut short because of all the bad attitudes of mostly Elizabeth and the strife in the show. Who wants to see that? It is such a shame too because WCTH has some excellent actors and actresses. I just hate it the storylines were so disappointing.
@@normasmither202 I agree that a lot stories were not finished or dropped. It is very disappointing for viewers. I have watched all of the seasons with excitement, but I don’t know if I’ll watch the next one.
@@thelittlescenes1185 yeah! There were lots of great moments before S 8...after that, even Rosemary role as her friend was less and even said that N was noble and selfless !! I willmiss the other characters in HV and the Canfields and Mountie but not enough to aggravate myselfby watching a show that does not value the orig hero and heroine and children in the show!!
Life is not abt shows that divides
Pple become animated by superficial- skin deep love stories, ratings and doing things
that produces animosity ...Actors are humans too and I do give them that but the total sum of the show will also affect the viewers so be it...HM. the ball is in your court!
Bad writing for season 8. I feel she did not think about little Jack and his future. I'm sorry I can't watch anymore.
They missed the conversation between Clara and Elizabeth the night beforeClaras wedding when Clara said tl Elizabeth that they both knew what it was like to lose someone , Elizabeths reply was how she never regretted the time she had with Jack but if she had the chance knowing what the outcome might be she would still do it again
I agree with everyone’s comments here, and I have to bring up one more ridiculous scene that had no meaning: the chair that Lee Coulter had shipped from South America. What was that all about? A silly chair that was “the most comfortable chair they ever sat in”, then Rosemary sat in in it and broke it. I know that led up to her buying some tools for Lee so he could build things as a hobby, but for me that was a pointless story line.
You are right. I forgot about it. Rosemary gave him space in the garden. I thought he will become a hobby carpenter or something like that. In the end, he wants to get mayor.
Oh snap so true
@@cordula4668 wow they are worse than I thought
Another storyline never ended🙄
Honestly, the way season 8 ended just made so many of the earlier scenes pointless. Elizabeth saying Lucas knows me so well was another big "WAIT, WHAT" moment for me..... when did he come to know her so well as she put it??? I must have missed those scenes because I never saw them in any deep meaningful discussions about their hopes and dreams or even their joy and sorrows. (I only saw that with her and Nathan) Neither the writing nor the acting showed her falling in love with Lucas....season 8 was just one angsty mess IMO. They ruined a good thing. How do you have a character (Nathan) go through so much development and growth to then be rejected by the lead lady who then opts for someone whose first instinct is to run away whenever things don't go his way??? The original storyline of a teacher falling in love with a mountie (portrayed beautiful by Erin & Daniel) was what kept me invested in the show over so many seasons.... then Daniel choose to leave the show and they killed off his character (this was devastating and heartbreaking) but after they Introduced Nathan I anticipated that they would continue with the original storyline and everything I saw had me thinking Nathan was endgame......smh but this new storyline with the school teacher and the gambler does not appeal to me at all. Furthermore, they made Elizabeth's character unlikeable. Sorry, but I'll just stay away from Hope Valley from now on.
One more thing to add. Nathan and Lucas in the saloon as he tells Lucas she wants him. Are you kidding me? Sure I am madly in love with her. She tore my heart out but it's ok. We'll be friends. Lame! Totally lame and not believable.
Thank you, my point exactly. They think they can write whatever they want and change a character so that he fits their idea....doesn’t work
@@thelittlescenes1185 When this scene happened, my husband said "that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. No guy on the planet would act the way Nathan is acting."
I don't know a man that would actually do that , even though it's chilvary and the gentlemanly thing to do , but that's story book fiction and hopeful dreaming , but in real.life a man that was in love as Nathan was with her , it would be too crushing of a blow to quickly straighten up and go see the rival.and have a " peace drink " with him and to tell him that it was always him.and not Nathan , and as the Gambler was about to run away again from.a tough situation like an immature child , Nathan consoled him and told him to not give up on het just yet ! What real man would do that ? I have never and will never use profanity nor I'll words but what they did to season 8 was just pathetic ! A school teacher and a Gambler saloon owner ! SMH !
Diana, That would never happen in a million years. They have already started the Nathan is not that upset so you shouldn’t be either charade. They know they’re in big trouble with Team Nathan and they’re already doing damage control. I don’t think they’re going to get away with it.
@@ehoffman2260 oh, they are in big trouble alright! Too many of us have sworn off WCTH bc of their ineptness and arrogance. I don't know of any other series that would or has totally disregarded the majority of their fan base. At least any that have survived!
This is SPOT ON! Thank you for your video! I agree with all of your points. Here are some additional thoughts:
1- If they knew she was going to pick Lucas, a triangle was completely unnecessary. It would make sense to give competition to the Mountie, but there is no reason to give competition to the saloon keeper.
2- The build up of the N story line (particularly with Allie) with E inserting herself in the Grant's family life now seems incredibly cruel (Christmas tree shopping, cupcakes, N's father...) it's just not believable that she was looking for Jack in those experiences. Jack did not have a daughter, nor a father.
3- E basically begged N to ask her out and when he finally did, she kicked him to the curb. Incredibly cruel for no reason, and very unlike her character prior to season 8.
4- It is just not believable that she struggled between the two men for so long. Again, unlike her independent, self-aware character prior to Season 8.
5- The dramatic Season 7 finale hug felt around the world felt devalued in how Season 8 began. It seemed like -- oh, yeah, that hug... well, Nathan's been away and Lucas has been away so we're just going to let the air out of that balloon and let it fall to the ground and die. Such an incredible scene now completely pointless. But it kept fans waiting with bated breath!
6- N and E argued and (prior to season 8) apologized. They had meaningful experiences even though they never went on ONE date. L and E, particularly L, avoided difficult conversations. The one time they argued, L was cruel. Their relationship is otherwise boring. The "Lucas knows me so well" comment was completely unbelievable.
7- When L & N had an exchange about E at the oil well, L stated, "you'd better have Elizabeth and Allie's best interested at heart" -- not Little Jack??
8- It really bothers me that Lee's niece saw him get pick pocketed and said nothing. (The fact that the thief later put the watch back in the car resolves it? Not really.)
9- The almost dinner scene in E1 was so painful. E had no business dragging kids into her drama. This was the first of about 12 apologies E owes N from this season, yet the one apology she FINALLY gave him in E12 was hollow. You are SPOT ON to say that her grief over Jack DOES NOT excuse her self-absorbed and cruel behavior this season.
10: Her choosing L makes the following completely pointless: N and C's monologues at the depot (that was a weird scene altogether); E's "love is worth fighting for" talks with L's mother, Katie and Ned; and N telling E that love is worth fighting for. That connection between the two of them was ultimately for NOTHING. E did not tell N that she had made the same proclamation about love to others. Ultimately, E didn't have to fight for anything in choosing the saloon keeper. And N decided to stop fighting as we see in his conversation with L in the saloon. NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE. THE BUILD UP WAS FOR NOTHING. There was NO build up with E and L. He's just a handsome guy in town who also likes books and he courted her. He stood around watching her and Nathan while holding his tea cup. No risk. No sacrifice. No challenge. Boring. Putting a Mountie in the mix and trashing him repeatedly did not make the E/L relationship more dramatic or meaningful.
It just makes me SO SAD. What they have done is irreparable and now unwatchable. Candles, picnics and bridges have replaced strong character and connection. This series ended with the finale of Season 7.
I really like what you wrote, in addition to the starting analysis. But I still don't understand the reason for this conclusion and if indeed there is a reason.
Yes, completely agree. If we think about it the only obstacle Lucas and Elizabeth had to overcome was Nathan- and then they decided tp throw ghost jack into the mix. Sure it might have worked if she had actually TALKED about Jack to Lucas. The only thing she said was "Not yet" when he (oh so patiently) tried to kiss her. If grieving Jack and her trauma was the reason she coudln't be with Lucas, how about have her talk to him about that? I mean, he is her lifetime right?
Why the infirmary scene where they open up to each other (I analyzed that and it's a very deep incredible scene) if she isn't going to be with him?
So many good points!
You're so right...everything is so unbelievable and lousy scripted roles for S 8...caused so much disappointment and hurt and insult to us! No amt of redoing or redemption for S 9 will convince me to support this unwholesome theme of WCTH as it has ended.way it is!...HV no more!
@@thelittlescenes1185 Yes! Thought that was the clincher for N & E...wrong! Was Bait to keep team Nathan fans and ratings going!! They really took us for a ride!!
Totally agree with the points you made about that problematic finale & all of S8. The writers were clearly laying a foundation for an epic love story between Nathan & Elizabeth with all of the hints & foreshadowing since S6... just to flip it in the very last episode.
• What was the point of Nathan being beaten up & rejected all of S8 with no 'delayed gratification'?
• Why have Nathan give Elizabeth a plaque with that inspirational quote, "ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU'RE AFRAID TO DO"... if she doesn't end up taking it to heart?
• Why have Nathan, Allie & Elizabeth bond while hunting a Christmas tree? ("WHEN IT'S RIGHT YOU CAN JUST FEEL IT." "How did you find the best tree in the whole forest? I DIDN'T SETTLE... THAT'S THE KEY.)
• What was the point of showing their attraction with the hand touch & Christmas decorating scene?
• Why have Nathan be the ONLY suitor to hold LJ or enter her home???
• Why give them callback lines like, “Let me know when you figure it out” and “What’s in your heart?”
• What was the point of the KEEPER Photograph?
• Why have Elizabeth encourage Nathan to ask her out by saying the only reason she went to UC with Lucas was because ‘HE ASKED’? Or her obvious disappointment when Nathan didn't ask because they were interrupted in the stables?
• Why have Elizabeth tell Rosemary that when she hugged Nathan she realized she CARED for him more than she thought? (Wouldn’t THAT have been the time to say it made her think of Jack? Except that was obviously just a cop out at the very end.)
• Why drag the KIDS into the middle of the triangle just to have Elizabeth cancel their family dinner date right outside of Abigail's Café? (I can still see Allie’s heartbroken face.)
• Why did the writers have Nathan tell Elizabeth “I LOVE YOU” Darcy-style (and then repeat it in the Mountie office)… and make the rejection that much worse?
• Why did Elizabeth ride away so EMOTIONAL from Nathan’s ‘I LOVE YOU’ confession if she wasn’t fighting strong FEELINGS for him? Why say it would HURT TOO MUCH if she lost Nathan like Jack unless she loved him too?
• Why show Elizabeth choose Nathan’s hands showing they were ‘MEANT TO BE’?
• Why have so many of their meaningful moments happen when Nathan wasn't wearing SERGE... if he's ultimately going to be rejected because of it?
• Why can’t Elizabeth KEEP HER EYES OFF of Nathan whenever she’s talking with Lucas… whether he’s wearing his SERGE or not?
• Why make a point of saying, "THE UNIFORM DOESN'T MAKE THE MAN" if it doesn't apply to Nathan???
• Why have a triangle at all if it wasn't so the audience would accept another MOUNTIE as Elizabeth's love interest? (Alfonso Moreno even said that was the reason in an interview.)
• What was the point of ‘LOVE NEVER GIVES UP’ & ‘LOVE is worth FIGHTING FOR’ showing Nathan & Elizabeth’s shared beliefs about love… just for Nathan to quickly surrender in the finale & tell Lucas he always had her heart??? What about when Nathan told Elizabeth ‘I know you feel the same way I do’??? Just doesn’t add up!
They have so many excuses for what you just pointed out..but non of their excuses work. If it’s because Jack- she should’ve ended up with Nathan because that’ would mean as overcame her struggle. If it’s about no more repeated storylines- they need to stop all the Hamilton dates and I have a whole video about parallels of Lucas and Billy Hamilton. If this is about having more story to tell in the future- well you’re just bad writers if picking another Mountie means you couldn’t tell any more new stories
AGREE 💯 The story doesn't add up....one of the best comments I've read... thank you!
You and I share the same questions! This season was a disappointment!
I agree with you!! One scene more: the scene in which Nathan apologized because of their quarrel in the woods, I mean that scene in which Nathan confessed that Elizabeth matters to him ... I am really sad Season 8 ended like it did.
@@cordula4668 Exactly.. I know Lucas has said he wants her to be happy, but (correct me if I'm wrong), I don't believe Lucas has ever said she matters to him, or that he loves her, Nathan has done both. I know E/L has said they have "fallen deeply", but they never used the L word. It's just sad the one who knows how he feels and actually proclaimed his feelings wasn't rewarded in the end. 😢
I agree with everything you h
ad said. Elizabeth choose completely out of character. She was Jack's wife, a teacher and a mother not set out to be a socialite. I was married for 50 years. The relationship between Nathan and Elizabeth was a more loving relationship that would last.
Her relationship with Lucas was not deep or more than a flirtation. Not well written not true. So sad.
The last thing I will say (sorry my last comment was so long, but this is short). My final conclusion after the finale is that what the show runners showed me... was that ratings mattered more to them than people... more than the people who watch the show, more than the people who act in the show and more than the characters and the stories they created within the show. That to me is the most disappointing thing of all.
I agree, I also feel that way. And they’re happy cause they’re still getting paid
I don't understand the ratings argument. Yes. They used S8 for ratings. But in their choosing Lucas and the way they did it they threw away free PR with fan videos on RUclips and disappointed the majority of their fans. They lost a lot of free support on social media. How can that be good for S9 ratings. They sacrificed S9 ratings for S8.
@@melissaatwood4792 Yep! Free PR!
And they were so good and brilliant in what they did to support WCTH season's promos...they have new ones now, abt L and E..but I ignore them and am not interested!!!
@@melissaatwood4792 In all fairness, sometimes when i open youtube i see videos of lucas's fans pop up.So even if Nathan's fan don't make videos anymore,they are been replaced by other people who are really happy with the direction of the show .And i am sure Hallmark will be in "full campaign" mode for next season,BB has already started talking about the show on christians sites.
@@Aurora-ob9ix True and I expect to see more and more Lucas content. But there has always been Lucas videos. They did not get the number of viewers that the Nathan ones did (except for 1 that has 516 000 views). AND most of the Nathan ones have been removed. There were at least 7 new Nathan videos being made a week. Some days I got notifications for 4 new videos. If I recall correctly, Susan Firth was getting more than 20 000 views on her channel a day. She took them all off but has since returned 5 because of viewer request. mrsacos was making 5-7 videos a week. She has removed all but 49. The user Nebula removed their channel completely and they had some really creative videos and many viewers. The Lucas supporters have no where near what there was for Nathan viewers prior to Season 8 and that could be continuing and growing if a different choice and direction had been taken.
With YTD viewer ratings down 55% Hallmark has no choice but to be in full campaign mode.
Feeling that they were used for ratings in S8, many Nathan supporters refuse to watch Hallmark. Some will watch S9 but only after their viewing won't count for ratings and they know the direction taken for Nathan from show recaps. That's what happens when the majority of fans are not happy. I am interested in seeing what ends up happening ratings wise for S9. (And we didn't even touch on the loss of WCTH focused blogs and social media accounts that have been deleted or changed focus or have lost a lot of fan interaction.)
There was also a scene with Allie, when Nathan had to leave to work assignment, she was left so upset sitting on the bench. Elizabeth was talking to Lucas and saw her being so sad, by the time she decided to go talk to her, Allie was gone. I was also wondering, why they just forgot about it? Elizabeth never asked her what was going on. It seemed like she didn’t care much.
I think Allie saw L and E talking and got even more upset so sue left. But, you're right, Elizabeth wasn't herself at all this season.
When I watched this scene, I actually cheered the fact that E didn't get to talk to Allie! I screamed at the tv " Yes, you don't get to keep messing with her feelings." It took my wife a while to calm me down. E has gone from a high society snob to a strong independent pioneer back to a high society snob. Her first marraige was for love her second will be for money. There is no love there and poor little Jack will be the ultimate loser in the whole scenario.
Little Jack will probably be sent off to school (written off the show so they can also let his day care providers go too) and then L and E can move to Hamilton or some other big city and then they can shut the whole production down. Season 9 could be the end (I hope not, but that seems to me a likely outcome). If the ratings drop like I think they will, this could be it!
I wish that Elizabeth hadn’t gotten too involved with Allie. She was too involved with the Grant Family. Especially, if she wanted nothing with Nathan. I wish she had kept it strictly professional.
That’s right #flippedscript
Allie is a kid. Elizabeth is an adult. Elizabeth explained to Allie that she was dating Lucas. She wanted Allie to understand. However, she was too involved with the Grant Family. Giving Nathan and Allie hope that she was going to become part of the family. Elizabeth was always looking for Nathan. She didn’t just “break up” with Nathan. She “ended a relationship” with Allie too. Elizabeth said one thing and her actions were another. I wish she hadn’t gotten too involved with Allie.
That too was mean, Allie was not even mentioned after all those evasive actions from Elizabeth (..wonder if N & Allie will be more visible in S 9..way of trying to redeem their poor writing.).there were so many scenes that never got explored all bec they rushed to make the story abt E & L on E 10, 11 & 12 and in the process it was A total flop!!! unbelievable ending for the 2 !! No passion no magic or as most critics said NO chemistry bet E n L
in their roles,!! Pardon me Chris and Erin, no offense to you..its just not there coz of the way they wrote your characters! Sucks big time! As viewer, HM will lose me too!
Yes! She pushed herself into the family way more than a teacher should. She made them family.
AND what about the scene where Elizabeth tells Nathen to "take off his surge" to "warm it up" LIKE WHAT! AND the scene where Nathen and Elisabeth are playing the game at the wedding and Elizabeth holds Nathans hands (thinking it was Lucas)...ALSO WHAT! AND soooooooo many other scenes...that we pretty much don't get to see with Lucas. Same with ALL the ones with Nathen and him playing with the kids and baby Jack (that we don't see with Lucas) I would have loved Nathen and Elizabeth together!!!!
Yes they knew their audience was Team Nathan that’s why they edited it that way!
@Lauren Lynn..1000th Agree why that was kept up all those nuances bet E & N ?? and if Lucas was to be end game other than to fool us, and .for ratings of course! Cruel stringing of T N fans. Imo.!!
I agree with your analysis 100%. Another thing I was disappointed about was when Elizabeth described how she had overcome the fear of losing another husband. To me she was saying that she loved Nathan. There certainly wasn’t the fear about loosing Lucas that there was about losing Nathan. Nathan’s Monty profession was so much more dangerous than Lucas’ profession. And I agree that she didn’t have the intimate relationship with Lucas she had with Nathan. We know very little about Lucas’ background. When Lucas was introduced this background seemed clandestine, nefarious. These fears were enhanced when Lucas had that mysterious telephone conversation that he tried to cover up by speaking French. On the other hand, Nathan came to Hope Valley out of his unselfish motive of protecting Elizabeth and her Son, which he demonstrated several times. Nathan was the real deal, one who you could trust. Nathan had a lot more love and concern for children, including young Jack, and the adoption of his dead sister’s daughter. I cannot accept Elizabeth’s final decision to marry Lucas; it came out of the blue. Elizabeth’s or Lucas’ actions in Episodes led up to that decision.
You are 100 % correct but they ( producers & writers ) will never admit this ! They blew it and they know they did and for an overwhelming 70 % of fans are disappointed with what they did with the storyline , it's unbelievable !
thank you so much for making this video! Something that really bothered me about this season was how they had lucas and elizabeth get together and start courting but they were still like almost indicating that nathan still had a chance or that elizabeth was still feelings things for nathan. Then suddenly the end of the season comes and they have a dramatic break up of lucas and elizabeth for them to just get back together literally a matter of hours later. What was the point of that? What was the point of lucas saying he knew that elizabeth cared about nathan if she supposedly all along loved lucas and was just confused? Even if she was confused I feel like she would have shown more affection and attraction to lucas than she did. If they were going to pick lucas than they should have just made that choice once. Just have her end up with Lucas and leave it that way. We didn't need the drama and the break up and the whole ''i love you, but I'm not in love with you'' speech. Like you kept on saying, bad writing. Something else that really bothered me was that Rosemary says ''some people come in your life for a season, some people for a reason, and others for a lifetime. Jack was your season and now you need to decide who is your reason and who is your lifetime'' and then elizabeth precedes to say that nathan is her reason and that he was there to teach her some lessons. But what lessons did Nathan teach her? What did she learn from her conversations or time with him? Certainly not how to be a nicer person cause personally I've never seen Elizabeth so cruel and insenstive in the 8 years that I've been watching WCTH. And it isn't how to move on from Jack. Cause first off, if she loved Lucas HE would be the one to help her move on from Jack and let go of him. And second, she already had. We had already gone through the healing process. You can see in even the 6th season she was already starting to heal and move on. I think everyone can agree that she had let go of Jack until they threw that random reasoning behind why she didn't pick Nathan. And it wasn't to make her realize her love for Lucas cause if they hadn't put Nathan in the story to begin with she wouldn't have had this whole love triangle drama and she would have just simply fallen in love with Lucas and that would have been it. There are so many things that i could go on and on about this season that just drove me to the brink of like tears out of frustration, but I just don't have the time. But seriously I've been watching WCTH since season 1. I am 16 years old right now so that is literally half of my life. It shocked and crushed me when Jack was killed off and when I heard that they were bringing in Kevin McGarry's character on I immediately fell in love with him and was actually excited for season 6 even tho i had promised vehemently that i was not going to watch it after Jack's passing. Anyhoo, long story short, there were sooooo many holes in this season and I don't think I'll be back for season 9.
This right here.
Agree with everything you said! There was so much that only worked with a Nathan choice. I was Team Elizabeth coming into S8 but the writing, even though she was dating, I dont even say courting, Lucas, moved me to be Team Nathan and I no longer even care who Elizabeth dates or what Elizabeth does. They ruined the Lucas character for me back in S6 E8, that horrible saloon episode where he claimed to be the hero after nearly getting everyone killed and Nathan, Bill & Elizabeth saved them. Now they have totally ruined the Elizabeth character for me. Ruined the series for me, too with such chaos.
@@henrymacangus9053 Yeah, I totally know what you mean. Elizabeth wasn't even an enjoyable character to watch this season. And has everyone just forgot about everything that happened when Luas first showed up in town?? Like that French woman he kept talking to on the phone and the money that he had stashed away some where. What happened with all that??
I will NOT be coming back for season 9, to have a common sense insulted by a warped minded screen writer!
@Miss Dream I so agree with you! It really hurt me and affected me the way they wrote the storyline, characters and the theme of WCTH ...which is the Mountie & Teacher...orig Janette Oke book. You are young but smart and sensitive to appreciate this tv series..unlike me am grannie oldie, and am not tv watcher orig. but did love this WCTH - when accidentally i discovered it last yr on Neflix, Covid time. Being marooned at home! so clean, good wholesome show and heartwarming period story of 2 NOBLE PROFESSIONS!! Like the fact that kids are good mannered and taught by E so well in her prev role, prev seasons UNTIL fiasco unbelievable disappointing S8 changed the direction and divided Fans...so wrong
... have not watched E 12 coz from the clips here and there I dont think I can take it. Will not support WCTH anymore as long as Saloon- Gambler and Teacher turned author will be sidekicks or theme of the series! Thev will lose most pple like us who are principled and hate being fooled and they think that we are stupid ..Team Lucas fans keep on saying we're pathetic and have no life..."get over it already " attitude from BBird, HM network and even some casts!, seem disrespectful and demeaning to say the least !!
Lucas has never been in her house despite numerous invitations. Why???
Oh I read something about that - Tinker said he didn't even notice that until Erin and Chris pointed it out...that's funny right!
And then he said it was because he's being an "appropriate suitor" which doesn't work at all: since like people have said a school teacher would never even date a saloon owner, if we're gonna go down the "Appropriate" rode
@@thelittlescenes1185 plus jack went inside her house all the time!
It’s because of Jack I think.. They never talk about serious things just superficial. It’s why I don’t buy in to them as a couple. They never talk about Jack either.
I agree with everything you pointed out. I have many issues with season 8, although most of them would have been minor, if she had chosen Nathan in the finale. Mainly because by choosing Lucas, so many other things don't make sense. Majority of the clues/foreshadowing pointed to Nathan, despite her courting Lucas. Like you said, even many Team Lucas thought she would choose him. These are some of the questions I have:
•Why did Nathan get scenes with Little Jack and not Lucas? He even offered to go out as a family rather than as a date, so he could spend time with her. Lucas didn't extend the same grace on their first date.
•Why did Nathan tell Elizabeth he was in love with her twice, and both times she didn't say how she felt? The "triangle" could have been resolved in episode 2, instead they dragged it on until the final episode.
• Why was there a theme of not giving up, and love is worth fighting for, if that didn't have any significance for Nathan?
• Why did they drag a child (Allie) into the triangle and have to break her heart as well? She should have been left out of it.
• Why was Elizabeth giving advice about "our greatest risk is possibly not experiencing our greatest joy", if her greatest risk of loving another Mountie would mean nothing?
• What was the point of the Jack/Nathan connection if Nathan wasn't her lifetime? That was a cruel storyline to bring in, something that has caused him so much guilt, and there was no benefit from it.
• What was the point of the hand holding game where they're suppose to find the man they're "meant to be with", if she wasn't meant to be with Nathan?
• Why did they have Nathan and Elizabeth hold hands in the wedding episode but not Lucas and Elizabeth?
• Why was Nathan in her house, and she helped him put on his serge, all the while avoiding/being awkward around Lucas, if she really loved Lucas?
• Why would Lucas have to break up with her in order for her to see she was in love with him?
• And like you said, why does she have to break up with Nathan in the finale when she was never with Nathan?
• Elizabeth trying to find Jack in Nathan was a cop out, last minute excuse for their decision. It was a slap in the face for Nathan, and an insult to Team Nathan, because apparently we're not intelligent enough to know when someone is in love, and isn't projecting their feelings for someone else onto them.
• Nathan saying that her heart was always with Lucas was completely contrary to everything he has said and done all season, completely out of character, and not believeable at all.
• What was the point of all the character development for Nathan, and lack thereof for Lucas, if Nathan wasn't going to be the leading man?
• Why did Elizabeth and Nathan have all the deep conversations and not Elizabeth and Lucas?
• What was the point of the plaque with Emerson quote, and the "it's a keeper" picture from previous seasons?
• Why is Nathan the only one that's been inside her house and not Lucas?
I could go on and on. But ALL of these questions would make sense if she had chosen Nathan. So the only explanation that makes sense is that Nathan was supposed to be end game, and toward the end TPTB decided to change the course of the show. But by that point they should have accepted that it was too late, instead, they made the worst decision in WCTH history.
You said this so well! My question is why did they flip the script? I know they say they made it so you could pick either guy, but the story wasn’t told that way. If they know most if the fan base wanted Nathan why did they go against that? We may never know.
@@beckymaiden3039 Well apparently they (by they, I mean Brian Bird) thinks the show can run longer (more seasons) if they go with Lucas, and they separate the teacher/Mountie storyline. In other words, they don't think their writers are creative enough to write a blended family storyline for an extended amount of time.
But that still doesn't explain why they wrote the season the way they did. The only thing I can think of why they would change the script so late, is maybe Kevin told them he didn't want to renew his contract when it's over, and this was the best option for both Kevin and Chris.
Elly C I have said a few times that the only way it makes sense for them to sabotage this show this badly is if Kevin had planned to leave the show because this was definitely heading for a Nathan/Elizabeth ending.
@@patriciak5702 That's not even a good excuse IMO, they would have known that way before filming the finale. That might be a good reason why they chose Lucas, but not for the way that they wrote this entire season.
Elly C Agree
I LOVED YOUR VIDEO! YOU ROCK! My biggest issue of them all is Ft. Clay... that story line was POINTLESS unless they ended up together. Also the FACT that Erin and Kevin pushed that story line in season 7 because they knew it would be something epic and complex to overcome makes it even worse that Erin allowed (assuming she had power in the decision as a producer) that to become insignificant. It didn't change how Jack died, she would have gotten over Jack dying eventually without ever knowing Nathan or the fact that Jack took his place, it had no weight in her overcoming anything UNLESS they ended up together. This was a HUGE oversight in my book. Secondly Allie, they were so careless with her and her feelings and her involvement with Nathan and Elizabeth. If they weren't the end game they should have had her as much more oblivious to their love story than she was... how they treated her in this and ending things with the impeccable line was simply NOT OKAY. AT ALL, it probably left a worse taste in my mouth than anything else. I agree with the fight for love theme completely falling flat. Borrowing Jack and Elizabeth's "love is patient" theme for Lucas and Elizabeth when it was everything BUT for Lucas and how he handled things was also wrong. Also having Nathan bring up love to Elizabeth not one but two times and saying "this is why I'm trying so hard not to show you how I feel about you" during Bill's thing... and NOT having him be the man she chooses... just made him all sorts of vulnerable that was unnecessary and painful to watch. It made him not only MORE vulnerable to E and her rejection of him (where as Lucas would have not had that sort of sting if she chose Nathan) but also it left him vulnerable to Lucas (his insecure jabs at Nathan were indicative of this... what was the point of that). All the previous scenes of E helping with the tree, E helping with the sleep over, N holding Jack for her, all 4 of them walking hand in hand in town for the never date, etc... all trying to hint toward a future family life also no longer make sense and lose all their meaning because of season 8. NEXT, It was unbelievable for E to make a HUGE life decision when she was conflicted the days before, wasn't able to take her rings off before and she was under a lot of stress with her school... any real person would not have done all that in a matter of hours and had confidence and clarity to move forward (also a real person wouldn't have stormed in and broke up with Nathan when they weren't dating but sat down and had a conversation about all that had transpired)... the speed at which everything went down and crumbled and switched in season 8 combined with the unrealistic "finding jack in you" line and the "her heart was always with you line" which could NOT have been farther from the truth... made her final decision so unbelievable that most the fans felt punched in the gut. A GOOD finale would have brought both teams to a place of acceptance EVEN if their guy wasn't the end game and to a place where moving on felt natural... instead we feel stifled, robbed, shocked, and unable to move forward. And then just the idea that a surprise ending was better than any story they could possibly tell was just bachelorette level cheap... if she had truly been working on herself for 3 years, and overcoming her fears for 3 years, and seeking love in healthy ways this would not have come down to a finale like this... we would have been led away from one man and into the acceptance of the other man... this did not happen. Both men were led on to the last second and it felt like a reality TV show reveal. Also the majority of fans were NOT rolling on the floor gasping but sitting on our couches, eye brows pinched together, jaws open saying "what the crap just happened, what am I watching?!"... 3 weeks later we still can't make sense of it. So as you pointed out SO wonderfully... the finale told no coherent story, completed no story, did not allow for redemption, was not fair to their main characters, did not bring fans to acceptance, did not bring closure to the last 3 years, did not continue themes from season 6 and 7 and so much more. The Canfields and the Colters are so lovely, but now I don't trust the show to take care of them, my trust in their ability to care for their characters and their stories is gone, ratings are all that matter.
❤️❤️❤️
💯
felt the same way too.
Well said. The writers have destroyed WCTH. After watching WCTH since Season 1, then watching (with nausea) the writers turn Season 8 into a shallow Soap Opera with little resemblance to the book, or the stories and characters I had come to appreciate in previous Seasons of WCTH. I have absolutely no desire to watch Season 9. This series could have been so much more. There were a myriad of wholesome and satisfying stories that could have been told. At this point, WCTH is beyond redemption. There is nothing to entice me to watch Season 9.
Yes! You said it so well. I agree completely about the finale. It was AWFUL
I think Elizabeth's character season 8 was a disgrace was a mean vindictive with a know-it-all attitude Nathan is too good for her
She really was a know it all. And a bad one at that cause she didn’t know what she was doing 99% of the time
Nancy, For some reason I am just now seeing this comment for the first time, and after reading it, it really brought home how much damage they did to Elizabeth’s character this season. When the season started, so many of us were truly hoping to see Nathan and Elizabeth together as a couple, and now in just one season, I can’t even imagine a scenario where I would like to see them together. It is truly sad how they chose to portray Elizabeth this past year. Hope you’re doing well.
Thank you I am doing well my granddaughter was married this weekend then it was beautiful aside from that totally agree with everything that you said it would be difficult to watch Elizabeth Knicks season don't know whose idea it was to change her character so drastically it was a huge mistake and still agree that Nathan is definitely too good for her I hope they bring on someone who is lovely and kind and deserves to be with Nathan and Allie you take care also
@@nancymannino9379 Glad to hear you’re doing well. Congrats on your granddaughter’s marriage.
The one thing that no one has mentioned in the disjointed season is if infact Lucas is Elizabeth's "lifetime" why have they not said those three beautiful words "I LOVE YOU". Elizabeth at least said love to Nathan. Just not the way we had hoped. Just my opinion.
Yes that was shockingly lacking..... what they did say was kind of odd ..... “You’re all that matters.....” and the other words.
And Nathan told E he loved her multiple times. I sure hope Elizabeth spends season 9 apologizing to everyone in Hope Valley who she treated so poorly. I lost so much respect for her.
Yes I am not want you tlock about it
The writers got what they wanted - great ratings. But the reason for those ratings was the over 70% polling for Nathan. We watched hoping to see a Nathan and Elizabeth endgame. The writers betrayed our trust, and left a bitter taste for the WCTH series.
Bird said they are developing a creative path for WCTH; Nathan will have a place in Hope Valley; but he will mourn in beginning episodes of Season 9.
So, they plan to throw Nathan a bone! Why would Nathan fans want to see him mourn? That’s just being more cruel. This will not justify the disaster they made of Season 8.
I will NOT WATCH a show that gives a pass to, or rewards people for bad behavior and lack of integrity and personal character. I have been a fan since Season 1; and I will NOT WATCH a Lucas and Elizabeth phony and forced relationship.
There’s ONLY ONE WAY for the writers to salvage the WCTH Season 8 disaster. After the Season 7 ending embrace of Nathan, Elizabeth was in shock. Carson gave her a sedative. She is ASLEEP, having a NIGHTMARE; and taking us along for the ride. Nightmares are illogical. Season 8 was illogical. How else could you explain Elizabeth’s bizarre, illogical, hypocritical, and self-centered Season 8 behavior?
In Season 9 Elizabeth wakes up and we see: 1) Elizabeth and Nathan navigate their budding relationship; 2) the trials & struggles of Hope Valley new & old characters; and 3) Lucas successfully managing his two businesses.
However, I do not think this salvage scenario will happen.
As one Heartie put it, Elizabeth flirted with and chased Nathan in Season 6 and 7 like a “HEAT SEEKING MISSILE”. For her to just now realize Nathan’s job is dangerous; or he reminds her of Jack is illogical. Every minute of every day the saloon is open, Lucas and the patrons are subject to fist fights, gunshots, hostage situations, stabbings, kidnappings, and robberies. We have seen some of this. And Nathan came to the rescue and saved both Lucas and Elizabeth.
WCTH was a wholesome family show. What we got in Season 8 was giving a pass to bad behavior and bad family character values. Elizabeth was: a) lashing out at her best friend Rosemary, b) not following her own advice that she gave to others, c) publicly accusing and shouting at Nathan, d) demeaning Nathan for not attending a parent-teacher conference, and e) just plain arrogance and cruelty.
Lucas falsely accused Nathan of pressuring Elizabeth. He told Elizabeth Nathan did not like crowds at Christmas, when Nathan actually said at Christmas time crowds are nice. Lucas gave Elizabeth Allie’s adoption gift to make himself look good; when he could have given the gift to Nathan. He was always spying on Elizabeth and Nathan when they were talking. There’s something wrong with that type of character.
Nathan is a good, honest, helpful, and caring man. He told Lucas he would always have his back. He showed character and class by saying to Lucas not to sell the saloon and not to leave town - as Lucas did after the Season 7 ending embrace. When Lucas can’t get his way, he is the “pick up my toys and go home” type of person. Again, what type of character is this?
Season 9 will not be on my radar. Good Bye When Calls The Heart!
Adding to the type of person Lucas was... his own mother said something along the lines of..You're not the settling down type... I think this was sometime in the beginning of season 8.
Mary, From what I have read, you are going to have a lot of company on the sidelines. I find it comical that Bird said Nathan will have a PLACE in Hope Valley. It is my belief, that if you could get an accurate poll, it would show that Nathan is the most popular character on the show at this point. I would tune in to season 9 if I found out that Nathan was going to be the lead character and they were going to put the supposed great love story between Elizabeth and Lucas on the back burner for awhile, but I think they are too stubborn to do that because then they would be admitting that they misjudged the fan base and I believe they are too arrogant to do that.
Absolutely the truth!
Truthfully, I almost didn't read because it was long. I apologize for that. As I read it, I found that I'm glad I did. I agreed with every point. They've lost me solely due to such a poorly done entire season. What a disappointment.
@@ehoffman2260 Hear! Hear!
But I believe they think we'll all keep watching because Nathan is the most beloved character. Sorry. I can watch Kevin McGarry on Heartland.
The art of good storytelling for WCTH should have been the building of the characters and the arc to a satisfying conclusion for the three in the triangle. Fans were very invested in the characters and wanted to see a HM story. Instead, we got a disjointed illogical season 8 and a disaster of a finale that left TN gutted. This video does a good job of highlighting the lack of consistent story telling. But, the real problem now is thatvthe show has lost a majority of their fan base. Will they come back by February? I don't know but from the passion of disgust on SM, I would say no. And the question... why would a show ignore the majority of their fan base. I watched the Friends reunion and the writers discussed how they made sure the fans got what they wanted and they listened to them. The secret to success. That should have been done with WCTH.
Exactly!!!
Agreed!
WCTH also had interviews in the time of season 5 and spoke emphatically about giving fans what they wanted (a marriage between Jack and E).....before Daniel left the show. Now there is no talk about pleasing the fans. Just “trust us”. ...... well we DID trust them all of AWFUL season 8, hoping that E’s odd behavior was just caused by fear and of course, OF COURSE, she would overcome it. The ending was a huge breach of trust....
Amen! So basically the writers and the producers don’t care about the majority of their fan base, they just cared about the ratings… 😒😒. Maybe that’s cruel to say, but that’s the way I’m seeing it.
Mutual consultation , to respect the views and the loyalty of the long time fans , and to listen to them.and to not get angry because of the backlash after the finale , that's not good business nor practical because , maybe it's your show but without the fan base , there is no show ! People invested time ( years faithfully following ) energies and of themselves to turn in religiously each Sunday evening to watch another episode of Miss Oke's books turned into tv reality , but to.ignore the 70 % because you can., then mutual consultation is then tossed into the waste can ! To ignore the fans it's difficult to understand !
I totally agree with u whole my whole heart.They really could have done a better .My heart was broken and still is. I don't think I will be watching this show anytime soon.
What do you think of the annoying dialogue that takes place on the evening of the parent-child meeting. And it's offensive to Nathan in a really pointless way and with no excuses or reasons. She treats him as a poor ignorant who is unable to follow Allie's (tutor) school developments. Then again she allows herself to teach him the lesson on how a father must behave to be an example for his daughter (as if he was not already an exceptional father). Elisabeth thinks about what example you will be for your son? And speaking of the interaction between LJ and Lucas, Covid is a new lie of the production, otherwise why does Lucas' mother hug him, only to tell us that it would be the grandmother? An unnecessary and unreasonable risk. I just hope people don't have any illusions about the future of the series because there will be only more disappointments.
I think so too, no potential for good storylines
Just thinking they went out of their way to show what a perfect choice Nathan would be, strung the fans along and then ended a weird, disjointed season, where the main character was so out of character, in an even weirder way... I just can't waste my time anymore when I'm just used for ratings. It's just left such a bad feeling in me. It was such a great show for so many seasons. BTW, when Elizabeth is married to someone other than a mountie, can it still be said it's based on Jeanette Oke's WCTH? It's like making Laura Ingalls Marry someone other than Almanzo Wilder. It doesn't add up.
The entire season 8 was so unrealistic, WCH. Soap opera writers. No way would Nathan been so calm, at the end going to Lucus to help him? Not watching season 9. As far as I am concerned it ended at season 7
Joel, the show we appreciated really did end with season 7. Season 8 was so poorly written it was shocking. I suspect I won’t be watching season 9 either.
I find it amazing that Erin released a video about 2 weeks prior to the finale asking everyone to accept Elizabeth's choice! If the writers had done their job everyone would have seen it, understood it and been prepared for it even if they didn't like it! The writers were going for shock value abandoning the on screen story like we are so gullible and blind to not know we were used for ratings....they have received their last viewer rating as far as I'm concerned. They could have made both characters and teams happy but knew they couldn't get the ratings if she had chose Lucas early on....so they went on with false hope and clues keeping Nathan fans tuning in....only to crush him in the end AFTER he'd already been through the wringer the whole season! What the writers, producers and ptb pulled was uncalled for, unwanted and unacceptable!
Another thing is- that you shouldn’t shock viewers like that in the last episode. Have them get together in episode 9 and then let us see Nathan move on to something better or something like that. They just dragged it out for ratings and as a result,t they won’t get the same ratings the next season
@@thelittlescenes1185 👍 Agreed!
How could we accept the finale. We have been fooled. Producers probably asked her to convince team Nathan, to continue to watch the show. She, as a Co producer, had a responsability on the final choice. However I won't condamn her. She's doing what it was asked her.
But so much no senses, an awful chronology on the facts... Still so many inconsenties. Too much scenes not finished and I don't that will change. Anyway I'm done with WCTH.
@@chantalsouvray588 Agree 👍
You are right on all accounts!!! I’ve been a fan since the pilot but won’t be watching Season 9. The writers and producers knew that Nathan was more popular than Lucas but what they failed to realize was that Nathan is more loved than Elisabeth. Not sure how they can recover from this mess!
So true - this Season they made her so unlikeable that people started liking Nathan more, know why? Because he actually behaved like a decent respectful human.
Very true! Developing Nathan like end game..why ratings was high! Coz Everyone thought it would be Nathan even Lucas thought so and some T L as well...Team Nathan fans rooted for him since S 6 to S 7 up to mid S8..superb acting by Kevin. They could have cont'd with orig Mountie and Teacher and paired and Lucas with Fiona , more believable...tsk, tsk...epic failure by writers.
Its a backlash now seemingly more against the E character....too bad coz professionally, EK has to redeem herself in other HM showsso to speak...noticed Marcus Rosner, Charles in S 1 - 5 has been in a lot of HM movies lately wirh other actresses...hope Kevin McGarry gets more other offers aside from seemingly" fallen WCTH tv series "..WCTH as it is now, . Will or can't compare to the Downton Abbeyish show in longevity (as per BB - trying to compare it) .. Sad.
It seemed so fake, it just seemed so immature. Are the writers without the real feeling of love? It was so disappointing. Elizabeth lost that loving feeling.
@@emydel679 Agreed.
Adding on... The scene that Nathan and Lucas were wiping the slate clean was not impressive to me. There was no closure at all for me. I didn't want them to become friends in the very episode Elizabeth breaks his heart... That defeated Nathan look disturbed me. The broken heart face made me cry and I wanted to jump through the screen and hug him so hard! If anything, that scene only pissed me off even more because I know it was forced. Brian Bird could argue that anything that should have happened with Elizabeth and Lucas this season will happen next season... Ok... Well, that'll all depend if I tune in to watching the next season. Especially after this rushed, uncharacteristic, weird, deeply, inconsistent season... I'm sorry, but I don't think so Mr. Creator/writer. That apology to Nathan from Elizabeth was so wrong. I feel like Nathan should have said something to her instead of just being silent through the whole thing. He talks about fighting for her. Where was the fight in that scene? Was he just simply defeated? I'm so sorry.... Ugh! Well I'm so sorry that I ever looked up to you about your friendship values. Yes, you lost your husband. We all mourned with you, Elizabeth! I did! For months!!!! It does not give you the right to treat people badly and not make up for it. It is human to take things out on people. It happens. It is not human and not in your character to hold such a grudge or not really apologize and then make up for it. I feel like Elizabeth's character was just so rushed and mean. When Allie tore up that invitation to dinner, yeah, I'd do it too. That even never got resolved. Why was everything coming up Nathan when it did a complete 180 at the very last episode? This is why love triangles are not good, and I hate them with a passion! It splits your audience. Your audience fights. Instead of focusing on what's good about the show, it's a huge contest. 70%?????? If you want an audience that's going to love a show, don't make them fight! Don't put in a love triangle! They are so lame! Adding depth to characters is a good thing, but when you have all these story lines trying to clash with one another, it makes the story confusing and you can't even keep up. Another thing that felt rushed to me was something that didn't even have anything to do with the triangle... Was that explosion??? I totally thought it was going to be like the flood episodes way back when Jack got caught in it. Uh yeah no... Fixed in what 6-7 minutes give or take a couple minutes??? What the frack?? That whole promo was about that accident! And they fixed by what? Five minutes after the intro? Come on!! I remember saying... Well that was quick. Lol! I'm sorry for talking ears off, but all in all, this season is not what When Calls the Heart to me. Again, it's not just because she chose Lucas. Its a huge part, but the inconsistencies now that I think hard about them, the noncharacteristical things that were said and done make my head spin. What the crap happened? Everything that I loved about this show is now gone. Everything that made this show what it was, what it stood for, is now gone. As of right now, I am not tuning in to season 9. Nathan, I'm sorry you got screwed over. I love you! We all do! As of right now, elizabeth doesn't deserve you. You deserve better! Lucas, I could have loved you if there was just more depth, more communication. If team Nathan could have learned to love you the way we love Nathan, things would be different. We wouldn't feel so cheated. But here we are.
Exactly
Perfectly said!!!
I agree! I also dont understand why there were no consequences for Lucas from the explosion. Henry told him not to do it, he did it, people could have died, but Henry and the group were the heroes, then nothing... Lucas is like Mr. Teflon, he did all kinds of weird, underhanded, controlling, manipulative things and he never had to answer for any of it. I am not interested to watch any more of that!
totally dint agree with you
@@juliannestory2383 I respect that you don’t agree with me. I won’t take it back though. That is how I feel and that is how I’m analyzing this season. I only ask that you respect it.
Here is where the writers went right.
*Adding the CANFIELD family and bringing a pastor back to HV.
* NED AND FLORENCE relationship and marriage
* ALLIE'S adoption and NATHANS Fort Clay revealed
*Building up opportunity for Bill and Molly
That's about it.
I can say all the other story lines were choppy and some IMO were unnecessary (hello, why waste precious airtime minutes on Christopher and Rachel they were a distraction from so many other stories that needed more this year.)
The Triangle was not even a triangle and they could have EASILY fixed all this if they would have done so episode 4. And then there wouldn't be the IMO awful innocent bystander (Allie) just as hurt by it.
I don't plan to watch next year. I don't trust the writers to redeem any of these stories.
Carson and Faith - a mess
Henry and Abigail-- too many ???
Jesse and Clara- gone but having not really fixed anything
Hickham and Fiona? Way too vague.
Rosemary and LEE STILL DONT HAVE A FAMILY STARTED!
and last.... Nathan the man who is just continuing to get kicked while he is down ... Yeah, this is an easy choice for me. Hard pass on enduring more soap opera drama. I want all the feels back. And they just overall DID NOT DELIVER.
VERY WELL SAID!!! Thank you!!
You are correct, trust was broken.
I completely agree with you.
Too much drama. Also Allie’s adoption storyline failed too in my eyes cause they never gave us closure on that. They’re gonna bring it up in season9 and make it really dramatic...I just can’t
@@thelittlescenes1185 I agree that the storyline was cut off, but I'm glad it finally happened.
I have ZERO desire to see if they do right by Nathan and Allie in S9. I'll say one thing for JOHN T. He and his team did a fabulous job making me love Nathan's character even more than I already did at the end of S7.
SAD he took the same opportunity to reduce him down to a ghost of Jack. And that's the rub. Make me love someone's character even more and then REALLY kick him when he is down.... Now that makes me angry. You just don't so that to a character.
Also. Been thinking about this more since I first posted.
I listened to ALL the interviews and everyone said it would make sense..IT JUST DOESNT.
ALSO I get the need to "cliffhanger" and leave people wanting more, but I DONT get why they would think a huge portion of the viewers would WANT to come back and see how they treat a beloved character after that traumtic conclusion.
the only "feels" I had after the finale was confusion and gut punched. NOT What I expect from the HALLMARK CHANNEL!
The whole season ended up being a bad experience. I’ve watched plenty of shows and movies that didn’t end the way I’d hoped. Watching S8 was on different level of unpleasant. So many of us hung in there for Nathan, only to see him repeatedly done dirty by the writers. Worst of all was the deceptive marketing and post season gaslighting. I have no interest in the damaged character of Elizabeth, she is weak, shallow and unlikeable now.
👏👏👏 I agree, season 8 has damaged Elizabeth’s character in such a way that I had a really hard time watching her scenes... and this is not good because she is the lead lady. I kept holding on believing that she was behaving in this manner because of her fears (falling in love with another Mountie knowing the risk that came with the job) but based on the finale, there was no fear, and if that was the case then why was she acting out? Why the change in her character? Just mean and unpleasant to Nathan, Allie and even her BFF Rosemary. Then to have her choose L over a wonderful family man who is selfless when it comes to those he loves, one would have been the ideal father figure for little Jack, creating such a beautifully blended family... it just baffles and disappoints me. I cannot watch her anymore, I have zero interest in her character now and zero interest in watching her with Lucas. I’m afraid the damage for me is irreparable.... I will not invest even a second of my time in WCTH anymore. I’m done!!The story I fell in love with was the school teacher and the Mountie and if you’re going to change that story line then do it in a way as to get everyone onboard with your choice... not constantly kicking the Mountie to the curve when he did nothing wrong and then ending without him getting any form of reward. It’s just too much for me. I will support Kevin McGarry in other projects, but I’ll never return to Hope Valley, next season or any other season. The show has just lost its appeal to me
THIS❗️❗️❗️❗️ Post season unacceptable behavior ontop of crappy writing doesn’t make them look good
Amen!
After such an unpleasant season,the question now is how many people will really learn from this debacle ? I'm so surprised to see the execs and the cast guilt the viewers into watching the show and calling people who are not happy close minded or trolls,i am really astonished by that.It's like you own a store and you decide to launch a new product and the sales are not good,so you go on social media and say that the customers don't a know a good product when they see it,they are close minded,they should be happy to have that and they will regret it, i didn't do intensive marketing studies but i'm not sure it is the right thing to do.Even if you truly believe in your product and it has a real potential,it is better to not insult the customers.
I wonder after expressing frustration,anger and all the emotions people are feeling,how many will be in front of their tv next season ? People are saying that the network and the execs don't care,maybe it is because the viewers have shown they can be disrespected and manipulated and it will be fine.
Maybe those who are still planning to watch need to change the way they interact with the show because something like this could happen again in the years to come.By reading some comments on various places,i had the feeling that people were not free to think for themselves,it's like the viewers have been given a guideline and they have to stick with it no matter what they see or feel.I wished people will leave the cult mentality that have been imposed on them,you can love a show without acting like your life depends on it.
YES THANK YOU!!! Phrases like "true hearties" or "I wish you would trust us" are so creepy. We are customers and you're right it's not a good idea to insult your customer when he doesn't like the product.
We can decide for ourselves whether we trust the showrunners to create a season 9 we want to watch...right now most of us have lost that trust
I have attached stand by my word if it continues like that I'm out it was a mistake writer humble you self and make the necessary changes it is possible to change the scene for next season alot of scenes were left hanging and it was like we were viewing a different show
@@thelittlescenes1185 True!
I love your point about the cult mentality. Sadly, I believe that the hearties have turned into a cult over the years. Just based off of Krakow and Bird's behavior alone, I can see that they have been leading this cult for quite some time now. Whether or not it started as a cult, I do not have the answer on that, but I do know that I had yellow flags about Krakow's character when I started interacting with the hearties on twitter. I tried to give Krakow the benefit of the doubt, but something about Krakow just did not sit right with me. Now, Krakow is being forced by the CEO to follow her own agenda. Quite ironic if you ask me.
@@amriddle8 Well, call it the " unwholesome cult"it has become then. I refuse to be a follower and I will not give them the satisfaction, to follow S9 even if Kevin n Allie continues to be there - albeit as a 2ndary lead to the E & L ...so undeserving new storyline! Am done.
Remember when Allie ripped the invitation card and idk if I remembered well but didn’t they never make up for that. They’re going to do with Allie what they did to Georgie during Lou and Peter’s divorce, move on with friends. She’ll probably end up with Robert and forget all her unresolved issues with E.
Yeah she heard about fort clay and forgot about Allie....it’s written so badly
This whole season seemed to be about showing that Nathan is NOTHING like Jack. They frequently took him OUT of the serge to show Nathan the Man, not Nathan the Mountie. That scene in the jail........... it was ridiculous. Absolutely horrible writing, because there was nothing developed in the L&E relationship. Whereas N&E had a lot of development. I don't understand it.
true! very inconsistent
Very true !
I am so extremely saddened and upset with the storyline of season 8. They took a wholesome show that I was always looking forward to seeing the following season and filled it with incohesive scenes that made it feel more like you were watching a soap opera than a heartwarming family show. I agree with the analysis of inconsistencies and a lot of the comments already shared. I will endeavor to mention some different issues. I could be wrong but to me this seemed to be the first Hallmark single parent series where the single parent wasn't taking into account how the perspective father was around their child / children. We are given the excuse it was because of Covid or scenes not used like the little dog. Nathan from the very beginning showed to easy going and had natural interactions around Little Jack. From the very moment he offered to hold Little Jack to give Elizabeth a break from holding him at the Christening and then giving him funny faces to get him to laugh was so endearing and spoke volumes of the type of man / father like qualities he had. Lucas on the other hand was teaching Allie how to gamble and do card tricks. Allie used this to trick the other kids. Not the role model most people would want their kids to follow. Jack while alive didn't like living in the saloon so he slept in the jail. Jack built the schoolhouse to get the children out of the saloon as their classroom. Now the saloon could become Little Jack's playground? Elizabeth was upset with the saloon hours keeping Little Jack awake in the beginning. Now she's so self absorbed in her own interest this no longer matters? Nathan has continued to playfully respond and initiates moments with Little Jack, naturally stooping down to him as shown in analysis or reaching out for his finger when they have the scene with petting Newton. With Lucas whether in the bunny scene, the library with the book, or between the Mercantile shelves, Lucas looks uncomfortable around him. Elizabeth is positioned between Lucas and Little Jack. Nathan how he worked with Robert on his desire to become a Mountie and convinced him to finish school was admirable.
Elizabeth character has become "The Material Girl" Grand gestures, flattering and book deals will get you dates and lustful kisses. Love can be bought. She encourages Nathan to ask her out because that's why she went to UC with Lucas because he asked and when they finally go with children also, they run into Helen the editor ( the book deal) and Elizabeth suddenly gets sick and the dates off. Then in ep12, she sees the manuscript ( the book deal )and that when she finally takes her wedding ring off. From painstakingly taking off her wedding ring to the over the top kisses on the bridge and then at personal book reading with all those candles. It didn't seem believable that she had trouble letting go to move that passionately so fast. Also what is up with all the candles. Wasn't that a Jack thing. Looks contradictory to seeing Jack in Nathan when she was doing it to Lucas as well.
The seeing Jack in Nathan was so lame an excuse. She's dancing with Lucas and she's staring Nathan down with longing in her eyes as he is leaving the reception looking dejected. He wasn't in his serge then. While going Christmas tree hunting or decorating the tree, he wasn't in his serge then. At the slumber party and she put frosting on him, he wasn't in his serge then. In the library when they both reach for the book , he wasn't in his serge then. When she was blindfolded and she said it was Lucas even though it was Nathan. He wasn't in his serge then.She had held Lucas's hands before, but there was more chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth in that touch. Then at Ned and Florence's wedding reception, when she spoke to him outside. She didn't pull away or say no. Her gaze was spot on him. It was enough that it convinced Lucas there was something more there between them. Why did Florence give Nathan the bouquet to give to Elizabeth instead of Lucas, if it was so obvious to everyone it was Lucas she was in love with.. Apparently it wasn't clear to Florence. Elizabeth cruelly led Nathan with false hope on numerous occasions, including never saying before she didn't care for him in the same way when he declared his love. It was enough again that it bothered Lucas when she told him. Did she ever consider what Nathan's viewpoint might have been to ask him to take off his serge to warm it. Nathan's response was even huh.That's not typically something you ask someone you don't have a deep connection with. Then turns around and gives the pathetic line. I love you , but I'm not in love with you.
I have vented long enough, even though I could go on. Sorry it's as long as it is. WCTH used to be my feel good place to go and get a respite from the world. Good feeling is gone. I don't see how they can redeem themselves from this disaster. And trying to make Lucas into Nathan 2.0 is not going to cut it with financial issues, more time with Little Jack now. With Elizabeth and Lucas being central characters that I no longer like doesn't encourage me to continue watching even though I am very fond of some of the other characters, especially Nathan.
Thank you for sharing that, I have felt the same way and I want to add this: Chris McNally himself said the network decided on the guy and the changed their minds several times. I just wish they had decided on a guy when they brought the two men on in Season 6 and then focused on telling that story coherently. But they didn't- the script was finalized the day before shooting. And that's why Team Nathan feels like this. And if we're honest if Nathan got picked Team Lucas would probably feel just as cheated considering the office and handholding scene etc.
@@thelittlescenes1185 I know how Team Lucas viewed the office scene. But I saw it in a different light. I know they say they saw chemistry and excitement. To my viewpoint. It felt like Lucas was uncomfortable with her being there. After she encouraged him to sit next to him, she didn't act like she was comfortable about it. Then when she was fanning herself it was like she had dodged a bullet, because she was trying to force a relationship with Lucas because she couldn't face her fears to be with Nathan. Apparently, I am probably alone in that assessment, but that was my perspective.
@@lisacorbaley6541 I actually found that office scene really uncomfortable. I think Elizabeth fanning herself was to show that the scene was steamy (and really it was quite steamy for 1918), but I didn't feel the chemistry. And I was a Lucas fan in season 7 and when they went to Union City for that reading, I also did not feel the chemistry. I was so excited to see a scene between Lucas and Elizabeth again, and the whole scene fell flat to me. I distinctly remember feeling disappointed. And this office scene which was supposed to be super romantic felt more awkward than anything else. And I really can't even pinpoint why. I think @The little scenes had done an analysis on it and one thing which I found weird was, for example, as Elizabeth was leaving, she didn't say goodnight, or goodbye, she just stared at Lucas and shut the door. I don't buy it, that Elizabeth was in love with Lucas. Why was she so upset after Nathan told her he loves her? Why did she say "I can't"? Okay, she could have felt really bad about not having made a choice, she could have felt backed into a corner etc. etc. But to run off and cry and say "I can't"? Not to mention saying "It would hurt too much to lose you the way I lost Jack" Why would it hurt too much? In my opinion, it seems like she is, in that moment, comparing her feelings for Nathan to her feelings for Jack. The fact that she said, it would "hurt too much" speaks volumes. She could have said: "I can't go through that loss again" But no, she said "it would hurt too much to lose you" As if losing him would hurt less if they weren't in a relationship. What was the point of that scene, really?
The ep 8 has been done in rush, it looks like Elisabeth suddenly thought "Eureka, I know who I love". She "runs" to Nathan's office and she is rude and cruel to Nathan. However, I felt the words weren't what she was thinking. I think she was still refusing her love for Nathan.
Anyway, the writers decided to write the ending we know. I guess it has probably difficult to act for Erin and Kevin. After the scenes where they became so close, to take a slap for Nathan from Elisabeth, gosh how hard that must be to change your acting. But as professional, they done what they can.
Now how silly was the scene where Nathan is telling L that Elisabeth in not love with him... Come on, who will be so moron to be to so kind with the guy who was the selected suitor. It wasn't to him to tell the thing. So much nonsense.
I'm not sure finally that producers and co have bet on the horse leap😉🤔
@@lisacorbaley6541 You are not alone , I thought the same. Why didn't he send her a note that he couldn't meet her for supper? He seemed lost in thoughts with his drink in his dark office. Same when he was on the phone that morning, she wanted to talk but he very skillfully got her to leave so he could make that call. Was a gift for his parents [?] more important than Elizabeth? So many questions that never got answered...
A tangled web of deception and arrogance on the part of the writers from the GetGo!
The writers, the executives, the network...who knows anymore?
I was always team Nathan. He won me from the first season he appeared. Like the scene where he volunteered to hold Little Jack to give Elizabeth a break. Also- I am so frustrated by all the gazes from Elizabeth from season 6 through season 8. The writers just led us on thinking there was some feeling in the gazes she gave Nathan. Hallmark totally took team Nathan fans for a ride- NOT ONE DATE with Nathan and yet very deep heartfelt conversations between the two of them. I felt their connection was so much deeper. They just continued to mess with his character and the fans. I also- hate how they totally messed Ally’s relationship with Elizabeth. It was hurtful and written poorly. I wish they wouldn’t have introduced the possible love story between E and N. What a complete let down. I am truly disappointed how they strung team Nathan fans along up to the final episode of season 8. Such a disgusting and total let down!! Not giving us one glimpse of anything to look forward to in the next season with Nathan and Ally.
I hated the last scene of the season 8 episode 12 where Elizabeth is dressed in her sequin dress and all the candles. It was SO SHALLOW. None of the dates and conversations between Lucas and Elizabeth were deep and heartfelt. I was very disappointed how little Jack was never shown with Lucas. There was NO CONNECTION at all. Also- total confusion and let down with storyline of Clara & Jesse, and Carson & Faith- what the heck? It makes my head spin.
At this point I’m not sure I can take another season of the shallow love story between L and E. Overall this last season played with my emotions way too much. What a total let down and complete mess with rushed or undeveloped storylines. Let alone disappointing ones.
I agree with you completely about Clara and Jesse and Carson and Faith. I think those two couples train wrecks are being overshadowed by the love triangle disaster. But, if the love triangle had been done well, the writers would be getting more heat for these two relationships. Clara and Jesse's marriage problems weren't the issue for me. Those things were realistic and could have been great learning and growing and heart warming scenes like what we are used to with this show. For me, the problem was the sassy, disrespectful, immature girl gang they created this season with Clara, Faith, and Fiona. They made a fool out of Clara through that mess this season and it totally ruined the storyline for her and Jesse. And then Carson and Faith. They built such a beautiful love story for them over season 6&7. In part, this was to hep us heal from Jack's death. And it worked. Then to have it flip flop constantly was just ridiculous. It didn't keep with their story line as a couple or their personalities as individuals and was way too much unnecessary drama in top of the love triangle. I honestly was so confused with what was going on with Carson and Faith, and even now it doesn't make sense to me.
Thank you so much for your time and efforts putting these videos together. I agree so much with everything you've stated as well as some other points brought up in the comments. One scene that I believe also deserves to be mentioned is the talk that happens between Rachel and Christopher as they are sitting outside of the cafe. It was similar to the talk Elizabeth and Nathan had in season 6 about pushing people that we like away so we won't get hurt if they leave. Rachel says sometimes the more we like them the more we push them away. When I saw this scene I thought this is how there characters tie into the season 8 triangle. This only works however with Nathan as endgame. If this was meant to be one of those "red herrings" in relation to the triangle , it was in very poor taste. It was helpful in Christopher and Henry's relationship and maybe that was all it was meant to be. I just know I felt like it was supposed to have meaning for both storylines. It seems like all the redemptive storylines were just dropped, in relation to the triangle. I really thought that I would be able to accept whomever was chosen. Erin Krakow has had the ability to make me believe she is falling in love with a new leading man multiple times. So I thought it would happen here as well. That is SO NOT what happened! After everything they put Nathan through he had to have the happy ending,right!?! Nope. So the slap in the face 'I love you but not in love with you. BTW I only liked you cause you remind me of my dead husband but you'll always be impeccable to me', not a fan of Elizabeth in that scene. Fast forward to the bridge, I tried but I could not watch. It still makes me cringe just thinking about it. It was wrong on so many levels. So much for believing Erin Krakow could have chemistry with anyone. The epic love story that was building was destroyed. This had the potential to be even deeper than the beautiful love story of the first 5 seasons. What a missed opportunity😔
Backing up a bit I noticed they tried to throw the whole 'Love is patient, Love is kind' around Elizabeth and Lucas' relationship. I know Lucas had said he'd be patient but he never really was in my opinion. He always forced his way onto Elizabeth. The only scene in which he pulled back was the office scene, when he told Elizabeth to wait and he kissed her hand. To be honest, I felt like he wanted to get rid of her at the moment because he needed to handle something else. Not really feeling patience and love. Nathan, however, has been extremely patient. Giving her lots of space and time to grieve Jack in seasons 6 and
I agree, I see that they tried to tell the "Love is patient, love is kind" story. But they failed. It is so upsetting because even though I like Kevin better and I also prefer the character of Nathan, I totally could've been onboard with Lucas.
However, he wasn't at all patient. He was constantly trying so hard to hold back what he was feeling (example: watching Elizabeth and Nathan but only breaking up in Ep11, the talk at her rowhouse, the talk at the schoolhouse). How is that good or healthy? He couldn't even tell her that he doesn't like seeing her constantly interact and look after Nathan.
He always pushed her to get physical with him. With the handhold and then with the kiss. But he never pushed her to open up about Jack or Nathan- wouldn't that have been more important than holding hands, especially if he is her lifetime?
When N backed off after she didn't respond to his declaration of love. She chased him down in episode 10. Which made L impatient and he dumped her.
@@thelittlescenes1185 Apparently Elizabeth finally bought into the physical thing with Lucas because I have never, ever, even in soaps I watched as a teen in the 80's, ever seen such a cringey kissing scene. It looked like she was going to eat his face! The first time she's ever even the slightest bit physical with him she wants to devour him? It just wasn't believable. Especially not for that time period. How did the guys behind season 8 get so much so weird? I hate that I can't go back to it for season 9 after I hoped and hoped there'd be a season 9! But after about episode 8ish, I was having a hard time tuning back in. Things just didn't connect. Didn't make sense. I was Team Little Jack the whole way. Unfortunately, he wasn't considered.
@@thelittlescenes1185A terrible lack of understanding about good relationships by the writers! The idea of E with L still makes me cringe inside!
@@sallieishere1409 yeah, so R rated and icky scene as per comments ..they just "don't gel romantically as on screen couple" .maybe am biased Kevin is better in his romantic roles I have seen all his HM movies and he is great excellent at all of the leading ladies ge was with, Jen Lilly, Erin Cahill, Emily Ulerup, Jana Kruger, Cindy Busby etc...Heartland- Michele Morgan etc
Bernardine Jolly June 9, 2021
I spent about a week trying to read all the comments to your analysis. I did read over 200 comments and also tried to read some of the replies. The most interesting was an exchange from LaHistoire and Henry MacAngus. Today was the first time these comments appeared online. Would you have this exchange entered again on the comments section. I find the analysis of S8 very illuminating as to why viewers were stressed, confused, and very sad watching these episodes.
lucas did leave town he just came back.
The writing for this season was not the feel good storylines we have come to expect...nothing feel good about characters fighting, being selfish and immature. Story lines and themes were abandoned along with the values, principals and standards of past seasons. Elizabeth is no longer a role model to be looked up to! Her character was changed to a woman who goes out of town overnight with a saloon owner who almost got her killed when the man he cheated shows up and holds her hostage! She wears what she says is not an "Elizabeth" dress, her "scenes" with Lucas were suggestive emphasizing physical attraction (lust) not deep abiding love. ( never any deep conversations or any interactions beyond the superficial) She goes on to be accusing, mean and shrewish without any remorse for her behavior... Callously leading on 2 men, and even hurting a child! The writing was designed to get ratings not to stay true to the roots of the show and what made it great. I have never been so disappointed in a show that claims to be wholesome in all my life! It was a show centered around the church....now it centers around a saloon, a gambler, sensual scenes, tearing down the hero and family, hurting children and unkindness. The deliberate misleading of fans all for ratings....not good....farewell Wcth
I agree with all you have said. Elizabeth said she was looking for Jack in Nathan then why did she entertain Lucas as a love interest? Why didn’t she pursue a relationship with Nathan and then arrive at this realization. Instead of locking eyes with Nathan when she was with Lucas, it should have been the other way around. The only thing that Jack and Nathan had in common was the red serge. What was she looking for? She didn’t like the risks Jack had to take in his job but she enjoyed his romantic gestures so maybe she found Jack in Lucas. What was the purpose of the game that was supposed to determine your life partner? Lucas let Elizabeth go so she could find true love. Obviously he did not feel that she loved him. Why was there hesitancy to kiss Lucas or hold his hand in public since they were supposedly courting? Then the forced friendship scene in the saloon between Nathan and Lucas. Is that how a man with a broken heart operates. No. He would behave the way Lucas did by leaving town. The way it seems to me is that the show was supposed to end in season 8 but when the producers heard the call for season 9, they had to find a way to make it happen. Season 8 finale was an anti climax. I still find it hard to believe that the writers messed up so badly and I have to believe that Lucas is not Elizabeth’s final choice. We have been asked to trust the writers.The writers will explore the relationship between Lucas and Elizabeth and something will happen to cause a separation. Nathan will end up being the one with patience for she will realize that he was the man she truly loved. There is a reason for Nathan telling Lucas about having Elizabeth’s heart and not Elizabeth herself. I can’t recall Elizabeth telling Nathan that Lucas was the one. This is the only reason I could possibly imagine for the ending of Season 8 being anti climatic. It makes sense too for no one could say she chose another Mountie. I truly hope this is the way the storyline would go because at this point Elizabeth’s choice is arbitrary.
Even if that’s the way they are going I think they already missed the mark on an epic story. I don’t know if I even want Elizabeth with Nathan now. Unless the characters wake up from a nightmare that was the finale.
Interesting viewpoint..... but it’s just hard to think this way when the physical PDA on the bridge and in the library scene was like that..... it just feels like they struck a fatal blow to the chance of N/E ever happening. Nathan can forgive a lot....and he has.... but that break up speech tore him apart I’m sure and He would be unwise to ever trust Elizabeth again.
@@jenniferpatrow712 Yes, dont know what they can do to right wrong they did to the storylines...unless they ship Lucas away and never to return or for some reason found guilty of his past./nefarious background in S6...could be imprisoned for a while.& Nathan may consider another new love interest, for himself and Allie to build a new life with.
WCTH is not what it used to be! Messed up big time!
Jennifer Patrow I agree. That PDA was the death knell to E and N, unless they truly want to make this into a soap opera. Funny how the E, N, and E “love” story is the only one the writers treated in such a manner. We pretty much were certain of the choices for the other couples. They handled them in true HM tradition. Then, BAM! Something crazy for E. Can’t trust them in the future. I don’t care to invest a season, only to end up with incongruity for a finale again.
Thanks for this! Your analysis is always insightful and helpful. While I have other observations that trouble me, the one that I most recently focused upon was the wasted effort on the episode where Bill had to hand in his serge...and the "uniform doesn't make the man" theme. If Elizabeth was only displacing her need for Jack in Nathan, effectively reducing him to only a man in a red serge, then what was the purpose of that entire sequence? The discussion Nathan had with Bill about the difficulty giving up the serge...wasn't it a possible foreshadow or back reference to what he had said he would do for Elizabeth in episode 2? If not, then why spend time on it? All of that now seems like time that could have been used for something else...rather than code to TN which fueled the notion that Nathan was to be endgame. That episode ended with the Fort Clay revelation which may have been the only element necessary for where they eventually landed with their story weave. Lucas never wore a uniform so that theme doesn't mean anything for our understanding of him as Elizabeth's future life partner.
Wow good point about bill
You’re so right! I had forgotten that as I had initially watched Bill and Nathan talk about that I thought that was yet another hint towards Nathan leaving the Mounties and being with Elizabeth. You’re so right that since she didn’t choose him that was also a totally pointless storylines especially since Bill has not been a Mountie since the show started.
I already commented a huge paragraph but there are just so many things that I just did nottttt approve of. Something that just honestly concerned and disturbed me was that when Lucas first came into town there were some shady things involving him. Like the French lady that he kept talking to on the phone and the money he was hiding. They dropped that story line as well or somehow they're going to bring it back up again in the future (which is stupid). And honestly most Nathan fans are okay with Lucas and as the show has gone on for the most part I'm learning to tolerate him, but I do not like him. He's waaaaay to nosy. He sticks himself into other people's business and when they get upset, he gets all apologetic and ''I didn't realize that you wouldn't appreciate this''. Like when Elizabeth told him about her book and he almost like pressured her into letting him read it and then precedes to tell her that she's not writing enough from her heart (even tho in the like 3-4 seasons that she had been writing that book they had made such a strong point on that E was writing from her heart and that Jack was her inspiration but suddenly when Lucas comes in all that goes out the window???). Then he sticks his nose into Henry and Christopher's FAMILY affairs and invites Christopher behind Henry's back. And those aren't the only examples. Lucas doesn't know his boundaries and I find him pushy and slick and only concerned about E (which actually goes to say he only cares about himself cause if he truly cared about her, he would be more involved with Baby Jack and care more about E's feelings and the people that she cares about than just ending up with her).
Something that frustrated me is that the point of WCTH is supposed to be family and love and this whooooooooole season there was nothing but fighting and mistreatment and drama and hurt. I mean besides the triangle, take that out of the picture and it was still a horrible season. There was no unity in this season. Jesse and Claire were fighting the whole time. Faith and Carson were always going back and forth and eventually ended their relationship which totally sucked. E and Rosemary had a nasty fight cause E was being so inconsiderate and suspicious of everyone. Even Lee and Rosemary seemed a bit distant and Rosemary didn't really act like the Rosemary we all know and love. That bubbly spark and high spirit was gone. And I think we all needed that because this season was so heavy and depressing, but we got next to no humor this whole freaking season. Just so much division and fighting. The only romance we really saw was Fred and Florence (which yeah that was nice I guess) and a small inkling of Hickam and Fiona (which was so vague and sparce it doesn't really count) and that to me was such a let down. Every week I was hoping that that week's ep was going to be better than the week before's, but nope. They just got worse. And why is no one talking about the fact that we barely saw Baby Jack this whooooole season. I get that they couldn't film with the twins very much cause of covid and cause of their age, but he was honestly barely talked about. It was always what E wanted and who E loved and how E felt, not Baby Jack needs a good man to raise him or you would make a good father for my son. And I can't speak from experience but every single mom that I've ever seen, that is one of their main concerns and what they look for in a man. And with Lucas not fitting that mold, it just adds onto the whole ''poor writing/ none of this makes sense'' box.
HALLMARK, WE MEAN THIS WHEN WE SAY THAT WE WILL NOT BE BACK IF YOU DON'T FIX THIS (even tho we don't know how you could). We're not just ''in grieving'' rn. We're done. We're totally over this drama and this ruining of a show that we held close to our hearts. Thank you for wasting the last 8 years of my life to just completely let me down.
I appreciated the Jesse and Clara hardships but yes- they showed all the right scenes but in the last episode when he came back they could’ve given us some more romantic Jess and Clara....but they didn’t cause they were literally going only for drama. Which is why I’m not going to watch s9. There’s Bridgerton s2 to watch that’s perfect to watch
@@thelittlescenes1185 Yeah, at first I totally appreciated what they were doing Jesse and Claira cause it really show cased that not all relationships are smooth and easy going even as newly weds, but just added on top of everything that was already going on it was just stress on stress and drama on drama. And yesss, I'm going to find myself some new korean dramas to binge watch
he and Elizabeth can be nosy nellies together haha
@@elizabradshaw1563 AHAHAHA, well they can have fun doing that while I'm off finding another show to watch. I'm thinking about starting Heartland... 🤔
Truth.
Speaking to the finale and the ending of the love triangle specifically: you should not ever have to TELL us how a character feels, or how we, as the viewer should feel. Good writing explains itself and SHOWS us. The entire finale, they told us how Elizabeth felt through her narrations and one on one scenes with different characters. However, the entire season did not reflect or support any of these things. The finale especially felt completely out of left field. The entirety of season 8 had problems with inconsistencies in story lines and bad writing, but the finale itself was, by far, the worst written episode. Almost everything that happened in the finale did not fit with season 8, or make any sense with the characters personalities at all.
I was actually not really either team. I thought both men were well written and had good potential. So, while I’m not upset she picked Lucas, nothing about her picking him makes sense. There was no closure for Nathan (or more importantly, Nathan fans), no explanation as to why the scales finally tipped in lucas’ favor, no understanding with her decisions regarding either man, and no couple development between E&L after they had just broken up.
Well said! It's one of the reasons many are not tuning in for S9....the story of the why should have been S8, not coming after the decision....too little, too late for upset fans.
So true. They shouldn't have to explain how/why they did things, their story telling should do it for us. Since they have to explain how Elizabeth was projecting her feelings for Jack onto Nathan, that proves they did not do a good enough job showing us. Since they have to explain why Lucas is the best choice, that proves they didn't do a good enough job showing us!
Oh yeah...bird saying that our favorite scene from season 1 will be topped- scares me. They live in their own toxic world
@@catherine_suspendersunbuttoned yes. I’m done with the show.
@@carrieokieOG me too !
There has not been a date
Also ..... Now I'm curious about sneek peeks and previews .... How many of them were about N/E or L/E discussing N..... I think this may be another place we can see them using advertising to grab Nathan fans over Lucas ones ..
Perfect analysis. The worst part is to see Bryan Bird trying to justify the finale. The more they explain it the less it makes sense.
FACTS
BB would be wise to take a break from sm, it's not looking good on him!
I think this video is exactly all the things I feel right now. I started watching wcth season 1 with my husband and 3 kids. There is not alot out there that we can all sit down to watch together anymore really. In the beginning episodes we get to see E&J getto know each other and some good story lines in between. Never drama, never rushed.. they brought Charles in and I believe it was to show us who Elizabeth really is, and how down to earth she is. When Jack died, we were all devastated like he was our own family member, lol But we gave seasons 6&7 chances and did enjoy it. When season 8 started things turned way off. I thought hmm this isn't how Elizabeth is.. I gave it a chance though as I was hoping for Nathan to get at least a couple dates, something. By the end of the finale I was shocked I felt duped in a way. Nathan always represented Jack's personality with things like being humbled, caring and patient. Lucus to me, was things that Elizabeth simply isn't (well I thought anyways). Makes me wonder if he didn't have any money or slick ways with her book what she really would think of him. I thought to myself she passed up Charles and surely she would with Lucus. But boy, was I wrong. Not sure if I will watch season 9 of it. Maybe if they bring Abigail back. They always talk about Hope Valley giving second chances, forgiving each other. They owe me that much....
If I were Lori Loughlin I wouldn't return to that mess...not sure it's worth the money. But then again they all seem very money hungrey to me now. I don't like the vibes I'm getting.
I understood why Jack had to die. To now rob us of seeing the Mountie lovestory play out with a happy ending...that I don't understand
@@thelittlescenes1185 very true!
So true!
Oh! And I also felt like Lucas just didn't deserve the girl. I certainly don't want someone who runs away every time things don't go his way. Not sure why Elizabeth choose him. I really don't.
The analysis was very good. The writers showed Elizabeth and Lucas in a family setting where little Jack was involved. And also Lucas is a business man and a saloon owner. Season 8 was all about this triangle witch was like a soap opera. In the pass seasons it was more family. The characters showed more compassion and love for each other. When there was problems most of the storylines was worked out for or resolved in a
I felt that they always gave Lucas the big romantic things: dinners, going out on a date. But Elisabeth promised Nathan to have dinner with him and little Jack and Allie, but she never actually did. Nathan got the little things that really mattered. But Nathan was the man who sits down besides her when she was waiting outside the clinic while her friend was operated on. Nathan was the man who was worried about Elisabeth and the children out in the woods with the storm. And Nathan was the man who handmade a signbord for her library. While Lucas only helped her writing-carriere when he had read her book, Nathan helped her writing with asking about it and helped her to believe in herself. Nathan was the man who had the more personal connection with Elisabeth. And then the break-up: it felt right. He also saw this connection and was jealous about it. In the interviews they say it was back and forth between Lucas and Nathan, but actually it wasn't. She was always romanticly involved with Lucas, and the hints they were talking about were al in the direction of Elisabeth attracted to Nathan while in a relationship with Lucas. This isn't back and forth. This is more staying with Lucas while having a real connection with the other man Nathan. The story ending is NOT a good follow-up of the story which was told. It was there story to tell: they decided what they cut in or cut out. This isn't indeed about Lucas or Nathan, it is about a good story. And the ending didn't match with the story they told us in this last seasons. I am disappointed and don't know if they can make it right again.
100% agree. And her lying to Nathan about „maybe later“ having a dinner and never telling him a definite no - but then also not ending up with him is extremely out of character . You don’t drag someone along like that only to insult them in the end. Yes, even if Nathan got picked Lucas would’ve been the one dragged along and it would’ve also been out of character…but then it would at least make sense to use the fort clay story AND Lucas still would’ve kept his dignity. Nathan had no dignity left by the time they were done with his character
@ AH, they can't correct it...they will build up Chris more and Erin scenes and keep Kevin, Allie mourning the loss of A great love story that could have been. Why S 9 will be all abt E & L and I will not be following it! They are not my heroes and sad bec I will miss the other cast...Bill, R n L Canfields, C n J , H n F Faith etc... ..so be it.
@@thelittlescenes1185 It is so totally unnecessary unbelievable for E to be conflicted that much when her action and connections with Nathan shows otherwise!! Bad lousy writing and acting on E and C...even "the Kiss" was too YUCKY, MORE lustful R rated as others commented!!! E was changed in S8. Nathan and Allie may save the show and possibly new love interest - Cindy Busby good chemistry in Autumn Stables!! (and put E as less visible & L to New Orleans to start business in the background..LOL!!)
You are right, the show did not end up with that feel good feeling, more like dismay. Season 7 had at least a dozen beautiful little moments between Nathan and Elizabeth, and then the final hug. We were all keyed up and excited about the blossoming of Nathan and Elizabeths romance but in Season 8 the wheels came off. Elizabeths character has been tarnished . I think Ill fast forward the Elizabeth Lucas scenes in season 9. For Elizabeth to revert back to her wealthy upbringing with rides in cars , picnics and candlelight meetings seems out of place in the pioneering era it was written in. But I have so been enjoying the show up till the end of season 7. Do hope there can be some resurrection and healing somewhere because wholesome shows are so hard to find these days.
I will watch clips. I don't want to add to ratings.
I agree that all the fancy, candle dining is out of place.
I have tried to write 2 comments and almost get finished and it all disappears. The writers basically destroyed in season 8 what they had so carefully crafted in the last two seasons. I love Lucas as character but Nathan did the hard work of building a relationship with Elizabeth. I think Elizabeth was afraid if something happened to Nathan it would destroy her. Her relationship with Lucas seems far more shallow. I love all three of the principle actors but they were the victims of some really, poorly thought out writing this season.
It just seems like a soap opera, kind of ruins the whole story.
Watching the cruel side of Elizabeth was difficult. A lot of friendships and relationships were hurt due to the avoidance of addressing the love triangle: Rosemary, Ally (especially in the dinner invitation scene), Lucas, and Nathan. I began watching “When Calls The Heart” before Season 9 came out. The lightheartedness felt so inspiring and beautiful. Season 8 felt conflicted and stressful as opposed to alleviating stress. I do hope Season 9 will be more lighthearted.
You mean Season 8- Season 9 is still ahead of you...I personally am not watching it. Especially since Brian Bird is saying we should "trust them"...if you have to say that you've already lost it
@@thelittlescenes1185 thank you for validating so many of us
@@thelittlescenes1185 Yes, I meant Season 8. My bad, I will edit that.
Yes to everything you said! I honestly felt like my intelligence was insulted watching that finale. They think so little of their fans if they think they can get away with that nonsense. Most of us are well read, educated and know what makes a good story. We can see a flipped script and last minuted decision from a mile away. Unacceptable!
Lol this describes what I’m feeling so well! Insulted.
That’s exactly how I feel! Well said.
Agree with all and everything being said here! Unfathomable the way they TBTB, BB (and Erin if she's with them,) to think of us as powerless, or insulting our intelligence! Wow! Smoothing us with redemption at S 9!?? Trust is a virtue and right now or ever, they dont have my trust!
Exactly 💯 agree! The storyline was written to lead BOTH teams on until the end! (All for ratings) They could have ended the nonexistent triangle after Nathan professed his love the 1st time. Instead they kept selling false hope until the very end. If she had chosen Nathan the storyline would make sense but then Lucas fans would be hurt and rightfully so. It was all about ratings with no concern to the deliberate deceit and emotional manipulation perpetrated on viewers! They sold both teams the hope of a beautiful love story but failed to deliver. Better writing would have made viewers understand Elizabeth's choice (even if you don't agree with her choice).Several storylines fell flat, themes were abandoned, misleading clues, misleading promos and interviews, were all designed to string you along until the end. Watching beloved characters get beat up and abused the entire season with no happiness at the end so not wcth worthy! Elizabeth unkindness and drastic character change was not the herione we loved from previous seasons....BUT the kicker for me was involving and crushing a motherless child! So not WCTH worthy! Each person must decide what is right for them but I will not REWARD this kind of deliberate cruelty with my continued viewership.
Agreed...I willl not continue watching this show....their actions were deliberate....the writing left much to be desired, it was illogical, lacking sense, mean and cruel! They could have written a wcth worthy ending for all characters, fans and/or teams! I also agree involving Allie.....TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!
I totally agree.
And neither will I ! You don't do that to loyal viewers , absolutely not ! I'm.done with the show !
I feel the same way I just told my daughter I am through with When Calls the Heart they are awful and if Erin Krakow any say in this watch her anymore
I agree you said it better than i could they you be thr detective i didnt start watching wcth to be a detective i wanted to see a good family show with good moral values all the characterusually act nice and caring but even Rosemary was out of character when she came out her door and saw Nathan yalking to Elizibeth. And looked indignant at him and said hmm' like what are you doing talking to her what was that for ?? The whole season was off not the kind of show i thought it was it's true they were playing each side to keep everyone warching i do t know if I'll watch it next season oh well
S8 WCTH - From a Writer's Perspective
Thank you 'The Little Scenes" for your wonderful video analysis. I only found this video about a month ago. Sorry this is long, but...a lot to say.
I have waited seven months to comment about S8, anywhere, primarily because I was waiting to see if there was something I had missed in the scenes from S6-S8 that would have logically drawn the audience to this S8 finale. There had to be something, right? I have been a faithful fan of WCTH since the pilot but will not be watching S9, even though I really love some of the characters such as Allie, Nathan and Fiona.
Throughout all the comments I've read after the S8 finale, some questions and thoughts arose. 1) Were there any credible reasons why 60-70% of this show’s fans were disappointed in the S8 finale outcome? 2) Why were the other 30-40% of fans not disappointed? 3) TL and TN were irrelevant when one is thinking about relationship dynamics and character development. The only conclusion I could come to was that 30-40% of fans didn’t care about relationship dynamics and character development and neither did whoever wrote those last scenes. The other 60-70% of fans did care.
Elizabeth and Jack’s relationship was written and developed beautifully. So, then we were introduced to two new potential romantic partners for Elizabeth after Jack's death. Wonderful. We truly wanted her to be happy after all the grief she had experienced. I was neither TL nor TN until S8. I watched those scenes, looking for the relationship dynamics and character development. At the beginning of S8, judging by the elements that are essential for good story telling, I saw that writing showing that Elizabeth would end up with Nathan.
WCTH seasons 6-8 were not about which man could make Elizabeth flip up a menu to fan herself with, first. Now, whereas Elizabeth’s relationship with Jack deepened into a close, loving relationship after she fanned herself watching him chop wood in S1, we got a 180 degree deviation from that necessity in the S8 finale.
If the writers on this show would like the fans to still care about Elizabeth’s character, we would have also liked to have cared about what man she ended up with, especially as it also concerned who would be helping her raise her son. The statement ‘Respect Elizabeth’s choice’ is not accurate. We were never given a reason to respect Elizabeth’s choice. Respect has to be earned, not demanded.
If anyone is still not seeing why 60-70% of fans were disappointed, they could go back through S6-8 and write down every time they see Lucas and Nathan being genuinely supportive of Elizabeth, having meaningful conversations with her, times when they didn’t try to buy her, and how many times they told her they loved her. Then, compare the two characters.
While ‘spark’ is also necessary in a relationship, there wasn’t even a dud firecracker between Elizabeth and Lucas. No chemistry. I always felt as if Lucas wanted to push her into a quick relationship. (Red flag). However, there were quite a few sparklers between Elizabeth and Nathan and at no time did he try to push her. (Relationship dynamics and character development). This has to do with ‘show, don’t tell’ and ‘tell, don’t show.’ I’ve never seen a better example of ‘tell, don’t show’ than Elizabeth’s one-dimensional relationship with Lucas. Were we just supposed to fill in the blanks? Candlelit dinners, rainy picnics, taking a woman away for an evening of Virginia Woolf, sending her manuscript to someone without her permission and spying on her, are not three-dimensional representations of true emotion and willing involvement in a relationship. They are surface fluff. No reflection on Chris McNally's performance. I'm sorry they only gave him one-dimensional scenes with Elizabeth. However, Nathan told her he loved her and that he was in love with her. Now, if we're talking about 'risky,' there you go. Nathan gave Elizabeth more of what was important in that one conversation than Lucas did with all his fancy dinners, outings and candles. Three-dimensional.
I won't comment much on the face hickey that occurred at the end of E12, except to say that we got more fluff without substance. Lust is not love. Because there was no good story telling that led up to that scene, it could not have been perceived as love. Elizabeth crying because Lucas was going to run off (again), did not seem like love - it seemed like fear. I truly felt like he was manipulating her, she fell for it, and had she been her real self again, she would have never accepted that garbage from him. Did Nathan run away from her? No, he didn't. And if they decided to put that awful scene in where Nathan had to be the one to tell Lucas that Elizabeth loved him, it was only showing Nathan's character in a better light again. However totally unrealistic that was. Personally, I would have let Lucas skip town and make his own mistakes. Nathan owed him nothing, and you are right - that was not Nathan's true character.
Another thing with the "I can't," and the 'you remind me of my dead husband,' scenes was this question: Would Elizabeth have given Jack and subsequently little Jack up if she knew Jack would die so soon after their marriage? That's what she was saying in those scenes with Nathan. "If I had known I would lose Jack, I would have never taken the chance to be with him, nor had my son." There are no guarantees and every rational human being knows this. - What would Lucas have been willing to give up for her, if he'd had to? He wouldn't even stay in town for her. When Nathan said he'd give up being a Mountie for her, he was telling her how important she was to him. I'm glad she refused to let him do that, but...Also, reducing Nathan, who had cared so deeply for her, into nothing more than an empty red, serge suit in E12, (after she kept giving him longing looks and encouraging him for three seasons and after he'd told her he would chuck that red, serge suit for her) was not only extremely rude and deeply cruel, it was also blindly ignorant. I too saw the weirdness of Elizabeth saying that stuff in her last scene with Nathan. Just...why? What I saw was a woman who was behaving irrationally and who was scared and taking the easy way out. Not a woman making the more 'risky choice.' I saw a woman who psychologically was not over Jack's death yet. Lucas was the safer, if totally insensible choice.
Although this was mentioned in the video, I kept wondering why the audience knew more about Lucas than Elizabeth did. This guy has a lot of secrets. Good thing he knew how to speak French so Elizabeth wouldn't know what he was saying on the phone. It is also unfortunate that the writers didn't take the time to develop Elizabeth's relationship with Lucas as much as they spent on developing her relationship with Nathan. Truthfully, I felt as if 60-70% of this show's fans had a chair kicked out from underneath them just as they were about to sit down. I don't know - maybe that 60-70% had been caring about this show since day one and the others hadn't. It's just a 'darn shame.'
Elizabeth's negative change in personality in S8 was also a great disservice to her. I didn't even know who she was anymore. I'm hoping they improve her character again in S9. I’m sorry that I will not be there to watch it, of course, but I wish everyone on the show well and thank them for the seven greatest seasons of television I have ever watched.
I feel that we all need some therapy from season 8. I would have preferred that Elizabeth just chose Lucas in the beginning with no love triangle. I am upset because now we have grown to love Nathan's character and just can't see Elizabeth spending forever with Lucas.
I thought I would not get over Jack dying but I did and now that we can see her in relationship with someone (Nathan) that has some of the same qualities as Jack, the writers take us in another direction. The chemistry I saw all season 8 was with Nathan especially the moment he said I love you. At that point she should have said I don't think I can love you that way. Instead we hd the back and forth for four more episodes.
You pointed out so many of the things Team Nathan are upset about. I agreed with everything that you said.
Thank you!
I totally agree too !
Probably the couple things that bothered me the most is the ep 2 N confession of love and then in ep 12 her heart has always been with L?! Also neither E or L have either said I love you to each other. Which I find strange. Only between N and E. And E to N in the breakup. I can buy the i love you but I’m not in love with you. She’s still having fun with Lucas and not facing her feelings imo so not much has changed. I immediately thought, ok “in love” is a phase and it will pass. I can’t buy the “I’m seeing jack.” He’s not even in serge half the time! And it doesn’t line up with Molly’s comment to Bill about the serge being more than the man. I agree a lot of things were very rushed. I personally think the cast is getting too big and that is contributing to shallow storylines. I was hoping to get to see more of Jesse’s rescue!
The only thing that really makes sense is they just want us to think this is the end of N & E. They basically could have E say down the road that she just “thought” L was her lifetime and they’d still get to pick up all the N threads. It still feels like we are at half time in pride & prej where E said to Mr Darcy he is “the last person she’d marry.” Not any closure really. I really wish they would’ve spent more time on L and E conversations for depth of his character. It feels to me like they used Nathan to generate interest for the next season. Kind of like The Bachelor & so we should all be curious where his story goes & keep watching. 😩 but we’ve already seen his heart trampled on like all season why would we watch more?
Definitely too big of a cast now. they'Re not handling it well
Well said.
Not only does it appear half time in P and P, it also seems at the 2/3rd to 3/4th mark of a Hallmark Rom-Com where there is the upheaval that occurs before the last few minutes of change back to the real love story. The end of S8 could be that upheaval and may continue for a few more episodes before it resolves to what the actual real and true love story is to be. If there are projected 12 Seasons, then there are about 40 more episodes to go.
Fingers crossed.
When they said we would be gasping and rolling at the finale, they got that right! That Lucas and Elizabeth ending left us gasping in disbelief. Except for them saying that this was her final choice, I would think that this is just another ending in the triangle saga-she seemed to choose Lucas at the end of season 6(the dance), then Nathan at the end of season 7(the hug), now Lucas at season 8 (the kiss). The only way this would make any sense after the way they built up Elizabeth and Nathan with a lame excuse about seeing Jack in Nathan and not having built any meaningful dialogue and growth interactions between Elizabeth and Lucas, is to have Elizabeth recognize infatuation with Lucas and abiding love with Nathan with a wedding at the end. Because it is Nathan’s turn and the stakes have been raised each season ending.
Except she kissed Lucas and for that time, that is serious stuff. So, oh well. Also, I don’t think Nathan’s fans would wholeheartedly be on board with Nathan as Elizabeth’s second choice unless they did some “impeccable”writing worthy of an academy award where this was coveted to be something Nathan truly wanted and Elizabeth redeemed herself. After all, HV is supposed to be good about second chances.
Another thought out of nowhere-why are they willing to possibly trot out a “has been done” scenario like Lucas and Nathan becoming great friends like Rosemary and Elizabeth, but not have Elizabeth choose a Mountie. Instead, they trotted out a cross between Billy Hamilton and Charles, except this time she chooses them instead of the Mountie as she did with Jack. You had to tally change her values to do that!
@@patriciak5702 I totally agree!
I've watched this video many times now, everything you brought up makes perfect sense and very similar to what I've been thinking. I made a list of all the scenes I felt were wrong I've got 8 pages now and I'm not done yet.
The one thing I will add is why did Nathan say:" Adopting Allie is the single best thing I've ever done in my entire life" ? To me it signifies that Nathan would love lil Jack as much as Allie or any son of his. Elizabeth was not unmoved by that as any woman would be when choosing the best father for her son. It seems that it meant nothing in the end.
I hated that last scene when Faith asked Nathan how he hurt his hand and he said he was rescuing his hat from barbwire. What barbwire? They made him sound so stupid and superficial, worst scene ever, no I didn't like that Nathan. I hated the chaos created in Ep8,, too much to deal with at one time, I was so stressed I didn't watch the ending. What about all those candles in the LIBRARY? I hope there will be a second video. Well done on this one.
I just watched that Faith scene I agree! There was definitely more storyline to that initially but they cut it out,,,but seriously “chasing my hat” like WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU TINKER
I think tinker and bird a couple of fools are the powers that be at When Calls the Heart awful
Whose idea was this storyline anyway? Whoever it was should be fired. And why would so many go along with it? Did they not read the scripts? Who edited these shows? Did they not preview them before airing them? How could they ignore the polls if 70% of their audience was TN? How could they not see this incredible disaster coming? Wow! It really is unbelievable.
They didn’t ignore the polls which is even worse, they knew exactly that most of their fan base preferred Nathan to Lucas and they used that in the editing, kept in storylines of Nathan while ditching Lucas storylines and also gave Nathan deeper storylines the audience would want to follow so they would get the ratings to get another season out of WCTH. Because another season means a few more millions. That’s what’s so disappointing about The Whole show now. It’s no longer a labor of love like it was at the beginning, it’s lost all it’s Passion and magic because like Bird, Krakow and McNally have admitted it’s about keeping WCTH on our screens as long as possible.
Well as long as possible is not good enough when it’s a shallow senseless story, so I’m doing them the favor and taking WCTH off my screen for them.
@@thelittlescenes1185 Thanks for the explanation. Very short-sided thinking on their part.
I haven't seen this written anywhere so maybe I dreamed about it. Didn't Nathan even offer to leave his job for Elizabeth?
I have been Team Nathan for a long time but I haven't said anything because I think it's a huge mistake that will redeem it's self next year. It's never 0ver until the end. As wishy washy as Elizabeth is, anything could happen. I'm hanging on for the ride. Also, these 3 are not the entire cast. There is too much story left to tell. That's my 5 cents! 💕🌺
Jean, when she said she could not stand to lose him like she lost Jack he told her he would quit being a Mountie if that is what it took. That was the problem, when he told her he loved her she never said she didn’t love him, it was left as she couldn’t stand to lose him like she did Jack and she didn’t tell him she was not in love with him until the final episode.
Yes he did at the end of season 8 episode 2
Hey Nathan’s fans! I have a suggestion to all of us. We can all stop watching WCTH after season seven, then we’ll all get the ending we’ll like.😆
LOVE IT!! I'm game.
Me too !
I agree I won't be watching anymore
Excellent video! I wholeheartedly agree with you.
The storytelling was lackluster in S8. I felt like the draw and angst of the triangle (not necessarily the writing) carried the season on its back because overall the secondary storylines were not that strong. Firstly, Carson and Faith's storyline was really drawn out and the topic of staying vs. going was discussed repetitively without any story progression. I just felt like we were going in circles. Similarly, Jesse and Clara talked about their problems to everyone, more than worked through them as a couple. I also didn't like how there was no build or backstory to Jesse losing their money. It felt like the writers randomly dropped a bomb for the sake of drama and then had both characters talk about their problems to their friends constantly with no development. Jesse and Clara's small fights had a similar impact. The writers threw a problem at viewers with this couple, but they didn't tell me why I should care. What motivated Jesse to act impulsively and buy the motorcycle? What motivated him to invest suddenly with Wyman? Questions unanswered. We just know that he did. What makes this bad storytelling is that the writers never communicated to their audience why we should care? If we can't relate, we can't connect.
There was also a lot of random storylines that never moved the plot/story forward. For instance, Robert running away on the horse and Rachel getting lost in the woods. Both scenes were unimportant and unnecessary. I was scratching my head, truly perplexed about the meaning behind these scenes - when, in reality, it didn't convey anything at all. It was just something that happened. Even if those things were arguably symbolic, good writing can showcase - story progression, symbolism, and foreshadowing - all at once. More random storylines: Nathan trying to locate an escaped prisioner for a 2nd time in episode 8 and Ned's his band-aid patent in the finale. Both of these scenarios were just random things that happened, but didn't dedicate as much time like the aforementioned examples.
There was also lots of characters acting unlike themselves this season. For example, Lucas claimed in S8 that he is the master of his own destiny, yet when he returned to Hope Valley after a three-month absence, he is dependent on Gowen for help running the oil business. That felt contradictory, especially considering Lucas evidently didn't trust Gowen whatsoever. Another example is Clara’s actions in ep. 12 when Jesse is still missing in the woods. In S7, when Jesse was lost in the woods during a windstorm, Clara went to the mountain to look for Jesse herself - her worry and concern for Jesse’s well-being evident. In ep. 12 of S8, Clara is baking a cake to stay busy. This is another contradiction, especially when you consider that Jesse was missing for a few hours in S7 versus 2 or 3 days in the last episode of S8.
I also believe the Fort Clay storyline was unnecessary considering the finale. The Fort Clay storyline had a clear trajectory - to damage Elizabeth and Nathan’s relationship when the secret was revealed, allow time to process and understand why the secret was withheld for so long, then heal and restore their relationship by beautiful grace and forgiveness. The writers walked viewers through this process and emotional journey just to permanently damage Elizabeth and Nathan’s relationship two episodes later with no resolution in sight. What was the purpose of this? What was the meaning? Things like this is why S8 and the finale make no sense. This is why the show has lost its essence of hope for so many viewers.
To be reliant on S9 to fix every loose end in S8 reveals how incomplete and unsatisfying S8 was in and of itself.
❗️❗️❗️WOW ❗️ this is better than my video! Lol. THANK YOU for mentioning all of that, especially the Rachel in the woods thing. I’d forgotten about that, it was SO WEIRD. In the trailer they made it look like she’d get kidnapped but then it was just Rosemary and Lee in the car, no explanation for that and no reason either,,,,
Thank you for speaking clearly and forthrightly. You analyzed the plot as though you were a literature professor. What saddens me the most is that WCTH was a place I went to get a beautiful story. It was a place where the truth was told. It was a place where values were upheld. When 2020 happened everywhere in media we felt as though we were being manipulated by politics and big tech. WCTH was a unique solace. But, not so! Even here the plot was manipulated to end in the way TPTB wanted for us. Not the way, the story naturally bent. Not towards beauty or truth, but towards false beauty (romance over substance) and false truth (none of the three in the triangle were really truthful to each other throughout the season and especially not in the end). I continue to be entirely disappointed.
Thank you. You are absolutely right: this was not the truest and most beautiful story we could’ve imagined for these characters and that is exactly what’s so disappointing about it. You put it so well, it was hard to watch this amount of passiveness and lack of communication in a show that used to get it right.
So well said, Valery! Beautifully put. Your comment really resonated with me. I feel exactly the same. I continue to be extremely disappointed and genuinely confused by the finale (and S8 in general) 5 months later. I understand people have different perspectives on it all, but personally, I’m still devastated that WCTH can no longer be my safe and happy place, because I can’t trust the storytelling and values anymore, and because I feel like there was so much potential for an epic, deep relationship with E and N, and it was thrown away. I’m still gutted. It goes way beyond the choice of Lucas-no hate intended to him. The biggest thing for me is how they had E say she was seeing Jack in Nathan-I can’t continue to watch a show that reduces a man to his uniform, and I just cannot believe that E was seeing N as Jack the past 3 seasons….so many meaningful E and N scenes were all for nothing in the end? Just makes me want to cry every time I think about it. I don’t understand how they didn’t realize how hurtful that line would be to many fans? I feel like they showed us the roots of N and E’s relationship, time and time again; we were waiting for their flower to emerge and grow, and for E to conquer her fears and remember what she cares about most (the little things, family, etc.); and in the end, the roots were unfairly torn from the soil, and E’s character didn’t overcome anything. Nothing grew. (Haha, sorry, felt like being poetic!) I was understanding toward E and her struggles during the season, but looking back, I don’t feel like grief justified the way her character acted toward others and feel like I can’t root for her as a heroine anymore, which makes me sad, because I loved her character and saw such light in her in earlier seasons. It all fell very flat and was unsatisfying to me personally. I felt physically sick after the finale, and no show has made me feel like that before. I wish the best to all the actresses and actors but am too deeply disappointed to watch S9.
To The Little Scenes: I agree with Valery. This video is an amazing analysis of Season 8 and very clearly and thoughtfully breaks down the weaknesses of the season. I’ve watched this video several times to remind myself that I’m not alone in feeling the way I do…thank you!!
Thank you ❤️ I am so very glad that his video was a reminder for you that how you’re feeling makes sense and that you’re not alone. I loved the serenity of the first seasons of WCTH, it’s too bad they let it escalate like this and made it a soap opera instead of keeping it a grounding and safe show for everyone to watch.
But I am sure there will be new tv programs to offer us something similar and maybe even better, and of course there’s always the option to read or listen to books!
It’s sad to say goodbye to WCTH and at the same time it’s an opportunity to try out something new
@@thelittlescenes1185 You’re very welcome! 🙌 I wholeheartedly agree-the first couple of seasons really were the best and had so much heart. Especially Season 1-great writing, great takeaway lessons, etc.! It really does feel like a whole new show now. That’s how I’m trying to find my peace with it moving forward-just looking at it as a whole new show, that others can enjoy while I bid farewell, because it’s not for me anymore. (I can’t help but be curious about how long it’s going to stay on air, but we will see. I think I’ll always look back with sadness on the show but am trying to achieve a place of indifference toward it going forward, which is still admittedly challenging.) Love what you said about finding new things to watch and read. That’s so true-there’s a whole world to explore, and many great stories out there! ❤️ And I will say, I’ve thoroughly been enjoying reading WCTH fan fiction-it’s helped me find joy amidst the disappointment and helped the characters live on in my head, true to how I pictured them. ❤️
Through the character development, story line and superb acting, Nathan has emerged as the underdog hero of the show. The audience resonated a lot more with Nathan and felt acute pain in his heartbreak rather than caring for Elizabeth and experiencing joy in her happiness. If the lead character pair is unable to make that emotional connection with the audience, clearly the plot line, story progression and their screen presence had huge lack. I have watched this show from season one, and for the first time in season 8, I felt Nathan rather than Elizabeth was the pillar of the show. If the lead pair didn’t carry audience emotions with them and the surprise twist turned out to be very unpleasant, clearly the story line was rather unconvincing and the lead actors did not rise to the occasion either through their character development or their performances.
The producers can dangle the rating as the proof to the contrary, but I suspect much of that rating was due to audience's attachment to Nathan and Allie and wanting that happily ever after for them. I know, I myself, watched and rewinded the episodes just to watch and rewatch them and so did many other viewers.
i agree
Nazma, I believe that you’re 100 percent right. The fact that the audience felt Nathan’s pain much more acutely than they did Elizabeth’s happiness tells you all you need to know about the writing this season. Elizabeth’s cold hearted treatment of Nathan became the story and they didn’t even realize it.
Agreed! I hit the point of wanting Elizabeth out of Hope Valley by the end of the finale for how she was acting all season to everyone. Even her apology to Rosemary was only because she needed her. Not a good sign when the main character isn't liked by a portion of the audience (consumers). On the otherhand, all I want is Nathan's happiness, the season was so hard that I felt every heartbreak as if it was my own...Kevin was that amazing :)
@@catherine_suspendersunbuttoned I think Nazma hit the nail right on the head with that post. I think Elizabeth owes Nathan several apologies for the way she treated him this season.
Yes. They turned Elizabeth into someone unrecognizable. I know people change, but they made her change for the worse, not better. She regressed back to her Hamilton ways, and didn't face her fears. They keep saying it's all about "Elizabeth's happiness", when in reality, most of us wanted to see Nathan happy, because he was only one that persevered this season, and then wasn't rewarded for it in the end. I have zero interest in Elizabeth and Lucas' relationship. So if they're going to be the focus, I have no problem saying goodbye.
I agree with everything you said The Little Scenes. Great analysis as always.
After a year we all had with the pandemic. I was so looking forward to watching WCTH S8, a show with a feel good factor, a show to take my mind off reality even if it's only for an hour a week. Instead I found watching S8 to be very stressful and confusing. I have to say there were a few scenes I loved, like the bonding between Bill and Nathan and Nathan and Allie. I also like the Florence and Ned's romance and the new residence to HV. I also like the new no nonsense, business minded Fiona.
Like everyone else I was so looking forward to the conclusion of the triangle. Elizabeth has indeed chosen the man she wanted to be with but I am left with so many questions? Did I miss most of the clues or was I too dumb to understand the clever (I mean not so clever) storytelling?
In Ep2 Elizabeth told Nathan that it will hurt too much if she lost him as she did Jack. This indicated that she had deep feelings for Nathan (this was confirmed during Elizabeth and Rosemarie's chat when Rosemarie came back from holiday). Understandably she was fearful of loving another mountie. In Ep 10 Elizabeth was advising Ned and Katie about conquering their fears. I thought Elizabeth was going to apply her own advise to herself. But this whole scenario of conquering fear sadly went down the black hole. What was the point of all those scenes?
Still Ep2. Nathan told Elizabeth that he knows she felt the same way as he did to which Elizabeth answered “I can't”. In Ep 12 Nathan said Elizabeth's heart has always been with Lucas. When did Nathan know Elizabeth was always in love with Lucas, considering Elizabeth was always chasing after him? Also why did Elizabeth say “I can't” instead of “I don't” if her heart has always been with Lucas? Why did it take Elizabeth until Ep12 to tell Nathan she was not in love with him? Why didn't she tell him in Ep2 when Nathan declared his love? They have had many conversations in between, she could have told Nathan sooner.
If the power that be (TPTB)had already decided for Elizabeth to choose Lucas right from the start of S8, why didn't they spend more time building up Elizabeth and Lucas' love story and make it believable instead of Lucas staying in the back ground with a teacup (?) while watching Nathan and Elizabeth having deep. meaningful conversations? They had plenty of time to convince the audience for Lucas to be the worthy winner. Instead I feel that TPTB deliberately manipulated the fans to think that Elizabeth will choose Nathan. Lucas' fans believed it was going to be Nathan. Even Lucas himself broke up with Elizabeth in Ep11 because he believed that Elizabeth loved Nathan. Ep1 to Ep11 mainly pointed to Nathan to be Elizabeth's choice, but lo and behold in Ep12 Elizabeth chose Lucas. Question to TPTB: Did that really make sense to you?
In Ep11, the school scene with Lucas and Elizabeth, there was no hint of Elizabeth being in love with Lucas, in fact she looked more disgusted with Lucas she couldn't wait to get away from him. I actually felt sorry for Lucas in that scene. Shortly before the school scene, she was clearly flirting with Nathan. What was all that?
In ep12 she said she was seeing Jack in Nathan? How exactly, because he's a mountie? If so, then why wait until Ep12 to tell him that. Why not tell him earlier instead of flirting with him. I want to point out that apart from the serge, there was no similarity between the two men.
S8 was not enjoyable to watch. Almost every episode ended in a cliffhanger, very stressful to watch. The old WCTH is gone. Maybe it was all a dream (or a nightmare).
I heard from a very recent interview (not naming names) that "we have to have great ratings to get S9". I get that, and I am positive that if the story telling was great, honest and believable, the rating would have been much better. Good luck with S9 TPTB. I'm not watching WCTH anymore. Never
I don’t want the show to keep going if it’s going like this- that’s why I’m not tuning in. It should end with s9
My interest in WCTH died even before Ep12 ended. It's definitely #goodbyehopevalley for me.
So many no senses. Wrong words in wrong places. I still feel hurt and silly to have not been able to see the switch announced by Bird...
@Madeleine Moyse! Great analysis ...its what all good Hearties esp T N feel, the S 8 from 1 to 11 pointed to Nathan and E great chemistry and would have been a great epic continuation of another Mountie & Teacher romance (but totally different from the Jack character ).. orig storyline is the only theme WCTH is so unique and magical 2 great believable hero and heroine! Red serge Mountie and Educator who is now an author, with blended family, would have been the best ever ❤ story going forward!! Not a "shady past" and " rich manipulator"like Lucas !
@Madeleine Moyse. Great commentary. This story was told in such a way that the majority of viewers saw a Nathan/Elizabeth future. That is because until season 8, the writers did a better job of developing a relationship with those two. Even in Season 8, they had Elizabeth and Nathan having the meaningful conversations. Better writing would have been working on a believable development with E and L if the intent was to have them end up together. Instead, their relationship was shallow romance with Lucas using his money to do over the top dates. But they never dug deep with those two.
I have said it before, the way they rushed this supposedly grand love with E and L (however much unbelievable and shallow), I will not be surprised to later hear that Kevin McGarry had decided to do more of other things and they had to scurry around for a hopefully plausible great love tale for E and L so they would not have a repeat of E’s love leaving HV.
Would like to just say that Nathan and Elizabeth was more HV feeling than E and L. The old HV that got people tuning in week to week. It was the Mountie and the teacher which built the following, and as impossible as it seemed that people could get past Jack dying, Nathan came in and made people fall in love with the Mountie again (another reason it is unbelievable that E saw N as Jack. N was his own person. The only similarity was their character and the Serge). If the writers had remained true to what viewers love about HM and the WCTH storyline in the books, it would have been ended better. A HM ending would have seen all this build up with Nathan ending in a great guy and hero getting the girl. The writers wanted to surprise and do something different than the Mountie? That is not the HM way. Why do you think HM loyal fans keep coming back time after time? Because they know they will see the great guy get the girl and even though they know this, they love watching the love story. We never grow weary of it and it is what has built up HM’s fan base and made it the success it is today. This whole triangle with a Lucas ending destroyed that trust.
I agree with all of these, but the scene that bothered me so much was after Elizabeth spoke to Lucas about his parents. He lashed out at her, a widow, and snidely commented about what would she know about love. He was upset, but the way it was performed was abusive to Elizabeth. She just took it and they acted like it never happened. To me, it was a red flag about anger issues when things don't go his way. Because the character is so underdeveloped, it is one of the only times we see him show emotion. The second time was when he told Nathan to think about Elizabeth and Allie. That was also a comment made in a repulsive or snide way.
Thank you for bringing this up. Lucas has behaved like a child when he didn't get his way. All his watching Elizabeth and Nathan's interactions out of the corner of his eye while stirring his tea cup had stalker vibes. Yes he has been charming, supportive and patient with Elizabeth. But he lacks emotional maturity. I'll chalk that up to his character and storyline being underdeveloped. Hopefully they give him more depth than just being the town's rich do-gooder in future seasons.
Yes!! And she apologized to him even though she hadn’t done anything wrong in regards to Lucas’ parents. She was keeping his mother’s secret per her request. Yet she didn’t apologize to others for things she actually did do wrong. And this was dropped...it was not even followed with Lucas pressing her in regards to her other questionable behaviour to lead to development. Again so inconsistent.
I agree- they seem to be blind to that. She went and attacked Nathan because of something Allie did (save it scene) but when Lucas actually insults her in his anger she gets over it real fast and even apologizes. How weird
@Deena Perelman, I agree with you whole heartly. The one scene that gets me is when Lucas tells Allie that he and her uncle will work it out, and Lucas' solution is to tell Nathan to "stop pressuring Elizabeth" at the reception. REALLY! what's with that!
@@thelittlescenes1185 it's the same behavior they have in season 6 after the Saloon event. She tells Lucas that her past has risked killing her, that she has a son. Then he says I am a hero and everything becomes peaceful, indeed he chooses him for the final dance. It's all a chaos, beware that with the promise that all the stories begin in one season and end in the future one, they are putting the baits and ways to keep the spectators tied. Good storylines don't need to be put off because they make the show.
This video explains exactly as I feel about season 8.
Collected all the complaints from hearties lol
He was the underdog and the one for her because they had chemistry that Lucas didn’t have with Elizabeth. All the looks weren’t just because she saw Jack in him... it was because she loved him! I just don’t understand why they did this... team Nathan is the obvious choice.
I don't either...they talk about repeated storylines being the reason........like.........are your writers that bad?
And why do they think that the imdB ratings are 5 stars and 70% of watchers are unhappy with the outcome? We wanted a continuation of the Jack & Elizabeth "boring old" lovestory.
@@thelittlescenes1185 It maybe boring for others, but epic love story it could have been!! for us, die hard fans of Mountie & Teacher they could have done so much more to Nathan storyline as single dad and hero to boot, great role model for LJ !! whereas a Saloon - Gambler owner is not!
@@emydel679 it's still mind boggling how they changed the theme of the show and took it from a wonderful wholesome family show and just because a main character decided to leave ( Dan / Jack ) and it left a gaping hole in the storyline , but to alter Elizabeth's character from a deep depression to bouncing back and forth between being infatuated over two men , that came from two clearly different backgrounds , and she became more sullen at times , easily angered and agitated and she lashed out uncharacteristically towards some towns people ! They can attribute that to change in time and what she has endured but one's character should still be decent and kind ! The way they wrote the character Nathan to be grossly stomped upon by Elizabeth and for her to choose a Gambler , saloon owner over a courageous Mountie that actually helped save her life more than once , and how she broke his heart over and over again , and that farce of an ending and the immediate explosion on social media where an overwhelming 70 % of the viewers , whether team Nathan fans or just viewers that felt she would eventually follow her heart and be with Nathan ,....yes it's still mind boggling that they misled the fans , went against the 70 % that wanted her and Mountie Nathan Grant , for her to choose a Gambler saloon owner , all because they felt that it would be boring ( to the producer and writers ) , the long time loyal fans does not feel that it would be boring nor would it make the storyline stale , .....the bottom line is its the fans that brings the ratings up, but for shock value and going with what they say is " the riskier choice " ....that makes no sense to the 70 % of fans that wanted Elizabeth to be with Mountie Nathan ! They blew a golden opportunity to give the 70 % of fans a beautiful ending to season 8 and a wonderful outlook for season 9., but for many of us , season 8 will be the last one !
@@eugenecrenshaw808 Yes, strongly, totally agree w all your expressed opinion .. true and right on, I really appreciate that we TN are not 'crazy or "cultists" just bec we want Orig hero Mountie as lead per orig.WCTH Storylines. HM been bz promoting the filming, latest seen on heavy.wcth channel, they're posting all kinds of scenes and shooting now where forest fires in BC is 4 hrs away from them. there will be 12 episodes DeLuise, highlighting casts scenes/.props. Henry is back.. a scene. shows Lucas' car being fixed by Joseph Canfield..Ned and Florence, Faith, Molly and scenes in school, Bill or Carson not mentioned...Nathan maybe in sideline, wld..be interesting what they'll come up to keep fans tuned in. L fans asking for Xmas show etc..
Nothing can every undo the intentional hurt caused by the WAY season 8 was written! Fans were deliberately deceived with false hope, false clues, false promos, a false triangle etc. all for ratings! This is no longer a wholesome feel good show, frontier saga or true to the books. (a teacher and mountie) No the writing for this season BROKE TRUST! It abandoned storylines that taught life lessons, values, morals and principals....and was filled with soap opera like stories that rewarded the lead lady for bad behavior, tore down the hero that fought for love even hurting his little girl, the superficial was uplifted over the deeper connections, while many couples were bickering ....not feel good. The show had to stoop to trickery to get it's ratings ( something good, honest, wholesome, storylines NEVER have to do!) You have abandoned the good not only onscreen but in the treatment of your fans....must sign off for good!
Yup the hero became the Anti-hero and got rewarded for that in the end
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
A.Lynne, thank you, couldn't agree with you more!!! Nothing could do justice to S8 or even if Lucas will become a legendary hero for HV or mayor or lose his business as he suggested his " role be more meaty "and be like Nathan...will never be the same WCTH!
Not only did the story not flow for all of the things that you mentioned in the video (which sums up a lot of things nicely!) but Elizabeth’s character completely changed. She chose a man that took her back to her Hamilton days (which she never wanted in the past) and a man that doesn’t want children over a man that wants a family, loves her and her child. Lucas has never shown that he loves Little Jack. He has walked past him, ignored him and has told Elizabeth that SHE is the ONLY thing that matters to him. She is a package deal and there is no indication that this is accepted by the chosen suitor. There was a relationship built between Nathan and LJ from the beginning and we don’t have that with Lucas - ever. Yes, she is a woman and deserves love but even with her relationship with Nathan - as mentioned in the video - is so much deeper than what she had/has with Lucas.
yes! and deeper than what she had with Jack too...it was the next step into maturity. They made her into a little girl again.
@Kimberly White so very true..more we see really.and looked at how it ended! Bugles my mind! Perfectly wholesome heartwarming Story butchered...and now maybe history!! Hope not my heart still goes to the rest of casts and crews who will need employment!! 💙
I think what confused me the most was that the theme with Nathan was that love is worth fighting for and you have to face your fears. So when it wasn't Nathan, it felt like the story told me that love Isn't worth fighting for and you should choose what's most comfortable instead of facing those fears. And I know Lucas kinda touched on that theme when he broke up with her saying " You've always maintained love is worth fighting for and that includes when it needs defending." And you could argue that Elizabeth had to face the fear of loving again with Lucas too, but that's not the way the story was told, do that's where the story failed most for me.
I really didnt like Lucas's break up speech, I didnt understand it. I didnt understand why he said she maintained love was worth fighting for but didnt sound like he agreed. It sounded like he contradicted himself in his statements. I did not go back and listen to it, so that was just my first impression. I used to watch every episode twice, but I only watched a couple this season, I just felt unsettled, like getting off a dizzy amusement park ride after every episode and not excited or interested to re-watch. There were only a few times I thought the show was great, the speech Nathan gave about why he served to honor the families of the fallen and most of the scenes with Joseph or Bill. But most of the season at best was boring.
Thanks for highlighting so many of the concerns I've had over the season as a whole. Top on the list has to be this buckshot approach where they cram way too many story lines into one episode and fail to develop the core stories that we're most interested in. Second on my list is the change in tone of the show. It went from heartwarming with solid values and characters to more of a soap opera with the emphasis on creating angst. There were precious few happy story lines and the season was almost devoid of humor - another lamentable loss. Third on my list is truth of character and this season was a disaster when it came to Elizabeth. She became someone I'd just as soon leave behind instead of the solid force in the show, and I don't buy this business of chalking everything up to her grieving. For heaven's sake, Jack died 3 years ago and she wasn't grieving like that in season 7. It was all trumped up to create angst. I used to recommend the show to anyone who'd listen and I always said that this was the best written series I'd ever watched. Not so anymore. Makes me wonder if they really knew their audience when they made the leadership change for season 8.
THIS RIGHT HERE❗️❗️❗️❗️
So well said! You nailed it. Every single thing you said!! The "grieving Elizabeth" shows up out of nowhere three years later? That really bothered me as well.
MariV Your words are so true. Unbelievable storyline. Elizabeth really doesn’t know much about Lucas for him to be her forever love. That is because the writers did not develop a real and genuine relationship. It was all about the romantic gestures without truly getting into the trenches together where you learn about one another or at least work on things together and get to see how you respond to one another.
Exactly, she shared her “tough stuff” with Nathan the whole series...not Lucus... so confusing.
I wondered the same thing, why the heck would she say, tell Allie I still think you’re impeccable...she’s never gonna speak to her again? That was unnecessary drama. I agree with your summarization. The red herrings threw the whole show...nothing made sense.
Thank you so much again for this high quality analysis, dear Little Scenes. Always a great pleasure to listen and watch your videos and I am not saying that just because I fully agree with your vision :)
If I was Lucas, I would be very annoyed to trust Elizabeth after all that and could not believe in her "true love" and future devotion.
The way she was interacting with Nathan during the whole season 8 was more than a simple conversation with a ghost ...there was so much intensity in the scenes with him that both Team Nathan and Team Lucas were convinced that Nathan will be her choice...
I also find Nathan a lot more funny, sorry but I am so bored in advance by Lucas and by this couple. And I am afraid that in order to catch up the poor finale of season 8, they will deteriorate his character in season 9. They already started with this stupid conversation where Nathan is the one who announces Elizabeth's choice to Lucas!
WCTH production should really stop victimizing. The more they are trying to make fans guilty the more we can see they are afraid of future bad scoring for season 9.
This season 8 really got on my nerves and it is also spoiling previous seasons 6 and 7. I can not give consistency to the whole triangle package, I am sorry.
No hard feelings but I am out, that 's IT.
Yup, agree. Brian Birds behavior is unacceptable and it's even more unacceptable that Hallmark supports his behavior...
They did a 180 on Nathan's character so Lucas is definitely next. They will change him completely like they already did in Season 7...and yes, it's boring
@@thelittlescenes1185 Amen to both of you!
Yes, if and I think this one may materialize, ratings tanking down on S9, with FANS turning away from WCTH, more than what happened after Jack died, blame it on the TPTB, whoever was the motivator to change the "good old fashion redundant Mountie n Teacher storyline " will be really sorry. Too bad because casts and crews are really one good happy family, out of jobs!!
@@thelittlescenes1185 agree !! But too late...fans are finding and rewatching All of Kevin McGarry's HM movies....am ok coz I have subscribed to Superchannel and all HM movies are there. Love All movies Kevin has done! He has so many sides to him, intense & playful, so romantic and kidlike fun too...those eyes!
@@emydel679 yep! Exactly! It’s a sure way to kill your audience! Quit making them choose!! Quit making them fight!! Triangles can be done right. I’ve seen them done right in the past with other shows and movies. It’s all because you know without a shadow of a doubt that two of those people are meant and WILL BE TOGETHER! This was just all false hope when team Nathan wasn’t prepared for the complete 180! A freaking slap in the face!
It was even written that Nathan thanked Elizabeth in the end of the breaking up scene... and it was Kevin Mc Garry who thought that this didn't feel right so he didn't do it.
So yes, storytelling did suck...your examples and explanations are great they explain what we feel or felt cause I for my part now changed to watch the series "Once upon a time"😄
Yes when Kevin said that I was thinking how frickin disconnected is Tinker from reality...what’s he gotta thank her for? Slapping him across the face?
Seems like Kevin is the only one from the show that realized how ridiculous it would be for Nathan to thank Elizabeth. The truth is Elizabeth should be begging Nathan to forgive her for her treatment of him.
@Little screens. I'm glad Kevin didn't say thank you. I thought he acted the scene well. Saying thank you would have been inappropriate. Most man wouldn't say thank you when their heart is breaking. The writing this season didn't work for me.
How can you write a character that clearly loves Elizabeth and she literally disses him repeatedly , lying about being sick to back out on a date , to shout at him in front if the towns people because she wanted to find out about Fort Clay, and when Allie tricked them into being the only ones at the adoption ceremony , she abruptly assumed that he knew , and that was horrible on her part ! Why did they write her character to become a bratty spoiled rude thing ! It's ridiculous how the team Gambler fans only see the artificial tangible surface things that he did wooing her and using flattery ! Some were even saying that he was a more maturer one , but he showed insecurity issues and strange jealousy by creepy watching her every movement with Nathan and then questioning her repeatedly ! Who does that but someone thats emotionally insecure ! His jealousy of Nathan is ridiculous and when she ran into Nathan's arms , it upset him so much that he was disturbed and it caused him to leave town for over 2 months without any explanations nor good byes , but after he returned then he made a lousy excuse knowing that he had her nose wide open and she accepted his excuse !SMH ! They can paint the gambler as this perfect person that " always thinking of her first " ( sic ) but we the team Nathan fans are straight through him and now through her too ! How do you ruin a perfectly good wholesome family show and turn it into a harlequin teeny romance novel or a soap.opera ? Why ????
In my opinion, all of that junk with pinkertons, canfields, landis, wyman walden, blah, blah, blah is all a bad cover for knowing how angry people would be over the choice of lucas - that we'd tune in for the next season to see all those other dumb stories. I have no interest. The whole thing is about Elizabeth. They developed Nathan's character and not Lucas's. I don't get the Lucas choice at all. Yes, all that mess she said to Nathan...ugh! How awful. How cringe-worthy. I'm so sorry to say this, but they lost me as a viewer. They had Elizabeth all out of character all over the place. I have no investment in her anymore. John Tinker, you really missed a good chance. Clearly you made it up as you went along. It's not that I don't like the choice. It's that the season was a cheapened, poor version of the overall story that didn't make sense. It made me wish I'd not wasted so much time I'll never get back.
I understand what you see and im in agreement that they did a poor job of making the show reflect how the fans wanted it to be , but to manufacture an unrealistic ending with her breaking Nathans heart over and over again , and to fall for the charm, flattery , wine and dine , the trinkets and the artificial attempt at financing romancing, it's like Billy Hamilton all over again except this time they are trying to make a former cad into a respectable towns member and also to be the second most important character as Jack was ! This is mind boggling to say the least ! I was done with the show after that finale ! That's just me though !
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I commend you on your analyses, you are SPOT ON! Here are big issues I have!
In Season 8. In episode 2, the horse scene, these things were said that tells me Mr John Tinker and others must GO!
Why would Elizabeth say;
1. "It would hurt too much if I lost you, the way I lost Jack!"
2. "I can't stay, or it will only make it harder to leave!"
3. Flees and cried in the field in Anguish!
4. Elizabeth tells Rosemary that she doesn't know what would of happened, had she not left!
If she wasn't in love with Nathen, why all of this, in only one episode? There are hundreds of such communications!
Lucas knew that Elizabeth was in love with Nathen and was bothered by it!
Lucas has Skeletons in his closet!
Mr. Tinker needs to Go, he does not write good story lines, he likes to toil with people's common sense, which tells me he has a warped imagination!
He completely destroyed Elizabeth's character, and the entire story line!
John Tinker Must go!
I will no longer follow When Calls the Heart. If season 9 ever makes it out, and is successful, I will be surprised! But I will not watch it!
You are spot on! Writer is most to blame if not all TPTB& BB!! Actors have to do what they're given as part of their contract...Sad to say that in doing what they did, Erin, Chris got most of the negative criticisms...feel bad but it is what it is!!
Yup not watching either
@@emydel679 they got paid so much I don’t feel bad for them. I wish they hadn’t done any interviews and not said anything
@@thelittlescenes1185 yeah you're right...this show brought me so much joy from S 1 to 7 until S 8 when I myself, affected me personally became so negative, even saying things that I don't usually entertain, - felt bad abt it. It touched.my soul my spiritual values/ being (christian) to feel so harsh and badly towards Erin, the writer - BB and TBTB that helped the demise of a wholesome, clean compassionate tv show into "cheap soapy drama type.."
Your last point hit the nail on the head.
Rant alert 🚨🚨: Elizabeth was A BRAT AND A HALF!! I couldn’t stand her in season 8. Her behavior was absolute crap! She should know better and should have behaved better. She was rude to Nathan. She was rude to Rosemary. I get it, she lost her husband. That has to be one of the worst things ever. But like you said, she’s not the only one who lost someone. Nathan lost his sister. Allie lost her mom. Little Jack lost his dad. Lee lost his best friend. Imagine Rosemary’s mixed emotions when Jack died. She grieved for her friend Elizabeth but at the same time, she lost an ex-fiancée who had become a friend. Elizabeth’s entire behavior this season is inexcusable. In fact, her character was so different, it almost felt like another actress portraying her. I cringed every time she came on the screen. I literally hated her character this season. She became my LEAST favorite character in season 8. While she was never my #1 fave (that spot is reserved for the amazing incomparable Lee Coulter ❤️❤️), she was in my top 5. I genuinely felt I was Team Elizabeth at the end of season 7. I leaned towards Nathan, but truly, whoever made her happy, I was okay with. By the end of season 8, I was actually HOPING she would screw up big time and lose both men. That would teach the spoiled brat a lesson! Season 8 Elizabeth was not the Elizabeth Jack fell in love with and married. Season 8 Elizabeth was not the woman who birthed little Jack. All your points were right on. Nathan was cheated. Allie was cheated. Little Jack was cheated. TeamNathan was cheated. Rant over.
Just to point out that, S1 started with valley full of women, who just lost their husbands and sons in a traumatic death, left behind with young children and totally dissipating their economic and social safety net. I don’t recall any of the widows behaving in as disagreeable manner as Elizabeth did in S8, and she is supposed to be the protagonist with the moral compass.
@@nazmaferdous5772 Yes! Elizabeth truly was the villain of season 8 IMO.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You've taken the words right out of my mouth! What's wrong with season 8 has nothing to do with Nathan or Lucas or who owns the saloon or who is the mountie, but it has everything to do with continuity and storytelling.
One thing that I had a major issue with that you haven't covered yet was Lucas's line before they kissed. "I hoped I'd find you here." I can't even begin. He hoped that he would find Elizabeth distraught on the bridge because he left town? What? He hoped he'd find her crying alone at the bridge? Why else would he think she would be there? Did he even actually intend on leaving town? I have two theories:
1.Lucas actually sold the saloon, packed his things, and drove away, only to realize he made a mistake and went back to look for Elizabeth.
2. He never actually sold the saloon or packed all his things, and locked up the saloon and drove away as some sort of test to see if she loves him maybe.
But why would he leave without even taking to her or asking her how she felt? He just assumed and left, which is a reoccurring theme with him. After Elizabeth hugged Nathan, he assumed she chose him and left for a few months to sort out his feelings. After watching all those interactions between her and Nathan, he assumed she still had feelings for him and broke things off. But he never asked, and neither did Nathan. In fact, no one really asked Elizabeth where her heart was. Someone could have asked her if it was Nathan or Lucas, but no one did. I don't really understand why. If it is still "I don't know" when she is with Lucas, that's a major red flag. If Elizabeth, after dating Lucas for months, is still telling Rosemary that she is lost, something is up. And what was her ah ha moment when she finally realized who was her lifetime? Was it Lucas thinking about selling the saloon? The serge scene? Lucas leaving her? The book opening? I'm not really sure. What made her realize? If she felt that it was Lucas all along, she wouldn't be so confused.
Season 8 was stressful and confusing. My heart goes out to all you. Team Nathan forever!
@Paige: I agree with you, Lucas tried to escape at least twice being afraid of Elizabeth not choosing him. And it is an interesting thought that he might have already sold the saloon. It is enough proof of how bad the writing/storytelling is, that we have theories about this. Anyways why is the bridge so important for them to meet there? For real... there was no talk about feelings there.. About your other topic: Nathan asked Elizabeth about her feelings (Se7 Ep.1) at the pond - talking about her heart. It had double meaning - it was not only about her real feelings, but also inspiring her to write about being a mother. One of my favorite scenes. #TeamNathan
I wish they would explain what her 'AH HA' moment was because I cant figure it out but I am NOT going to rewatch to try to understand. AND I think they had 2 stories to explain why she DID NOT have true love with Lucas. The Rachel/Christopher story showed that true love is more quickly established than this long drawn out dating they were doing and might I point out they NEVER had a DATE, either, actually neither did Florence and Ned, and they also had true love from friendship, no dating. Also the Fiona story explaining why she ended her engagement, that she was head over heels at first but then there was nothing really there!! Easy peasy and to explain why Lucas was just a season, but nothing to explain how he suddenly knew her so well with no real conversations. I think the original story had Nathan and Jesse lost and her and Clara realizing they would rather have the time with their true loves than none at all and when they finally show back up they have the 'Ah ha' moment with Nathan. We have so many more creative people that I am sure could come up with her moment with Nathan but that one makes sense why they had Jesse lost AGAIN!!
Wow, Nathan and Jesse being lost in the mountains is how much better story than what we got! Definitely a better one than Elizabeth telling 3times (to Clara, Ned and Katie) to love wholeheartedly is worth the risk and herself not taking the (foreshadowed) risk (of the Emerson poem) at the end.
I think we are mostly upset by the fact our investment of time! A big waste of our time!
Yes, wanted to feel happy at the end of the show, felt horrible instead
Worse than after a sad movie
Yes....that too! Aside from being hurt disappointed-heartbroken!!!
Thank you Ellie! Missed your editorials. This season was totally full of angst fir me and so many others. None of it made sense as you pointed out. So many loose ends and not at all what we came to expect from this series. To add to yoir comments. What about Jesse and Clara. In prior seasons when someone was missing, particularly a husband, we would have found the women of HV gathered together to support Clars as she was in distress until they found him safe. Instead, she was serving breakfast to customers totally nonchalantly. Excuse me!! Your husband is missing and could be hurt!! Instead pack your bags and get ready for a vacation. Still scratching my head on that one. Another thing so unbelievable.
Wow good point, that did feel strange to me...I gotta say Tinker didn’t make a good impression
The Clara and Jesse thing was totally insane! Let's also talk about how apparently only Nathan was the only one looking for Jesse after day 1 while everyone else gathered to say goodbye to Carson. Not the same HV community from the past for sure!!
That's right Catie! I agree. Not only would the women console Clara but the men would be searching for Jesse as well. Look when Jack went missing and Lee as well. We had a different HV when it was in Alfonso's hands. That was the HV that made us fall in love with the series!
@DianaVolcsey You make a very good point! If I remember correctly in season 7 "In to the woods". Clara went looking for Jesse as well as Rosemary. Why didn't she do that in season 8? Such a disjointed season, and sooooooo unbelievable!
@@suehodges7796 Yes! That was when Alfonso still had the right direction of the series in mind! The series is a total train wreck now!
Unrealistic soap opera style. Nathan was done wrong. and they made him look so stupid . Helping Lucus? He would have been screaming and kicking, Elizabeth should move back to Hamilton because she is no longer a Hope valley woman. I think the writers were used to doing soap operas Season 8 was the worst ever. I will not be watching season 9. I'm done.
I agree with all of this. If the story made sense, I wouldn’t care who she picked. Elizabeth in the last episode was just cruel. The scenes in the jail and the saloon were hard to watch. I have a hard time with the scenes like “love is worth fighting for” and the I love yous to make sense when she picks Lucas in the end. I’m sad that we won’t get to see the blended family storyline- that would’ve been something new. I hope that Nathan ignores Elizabeth for the beginning of the season so she will apologize and that her and Lucas will deal with some of their issues and talk about Jack.
Elizabeth cant have her cake and eat it too. She cant say she loves Nathan and then waltz off with Lucas! Being a widow of 6 years myself and knowing how your whole world can be turned upside down and how you can make silly decisions that seem right at the time. Then you look back later and think "what in the world was I thinking". I know this is true in real life because Ive been through it. It takes years and years to re-invent yourself and start making sense out of everything.
I agree - the story line just doesn't make sense logically.
@@joantolmie7401 I agree with you. I too have been widowed for 6 years, and it just doesn't go away. I know it is different with everyone, but after 45 years of marriage it's a whole new life style change.
Everything you have said and more.....totally agree! If WCTH had better writers they could have united their fan base with Elizabeth's choice but instead wrote a beautiful story for Nathan and Elizabeth...threw it out the window and had her choose Lucas???? The storyline should have led all viewers to a believable conclusion and made both men reasonably happy! This was all about ratings....viewers were used and abused. Sorry but my self respect moves me to leave UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS....no longer trust the writers! No longer a feel good, wholesome show!
Exactly
Thank you for making this video as another means for us to express the reasons why we are so upset by what happened in the finale (and this season as a whole). I agree with everything you said. There were so many inconsistences! I would normally say it was just a bad show and forget about it but I can’t get past it because WCTH has been such an incredibly good show that I’ve come to love so much that I just can’t leave it at that. They have written such uplifting, powerful stories for 7 seasons and it’s really hard to believe they were this careless with season 8. For the record, I like all of the actors including Chris and like Lucas as a character in Hope Valley. I am just so confused and these are some of the things that really bother me:
1) The WCTH format was changed. For the past 7 seasons we’ve been getting meaningful cohesive storylines that include a few select stories running over the course of many episodes for development and other plots that were explored in depth and wrapped up within an episode or two always leaving us satisfied and with hope. This season, I was left feeling anxious and stressed at the end of each episode. There were so many conflicts most without resolution episode after episode. As great as it is to have such a wonderful ensemble cast, trying to have almost everyone in every single episode meant that each person barely got a couple of minutes of screen time and all of their stories were dragged out. I thought everything was being dragged out for a reason and I thought the reason would be that the stories would get intertwined and depend on each other for resolution and that everything would work out to leave us feeling good at the end. Needless to say that did not happen at all! The themes that had been brought up i.e. “love is worth fighting for”, “face your fears to experience your greatest joy”, “don’t give up” became meaningless. Meanwhile we got some other random scenes that didn’t contribute to all these running stories or help them in any way at all i.e. the runaway horse; Rachel getting lost; Jesse getting lost in the woods; Clara asking why Florence came back from her honeymoon alone…etc. And since Elizabeth didn’t choose Nathan, all the scenes about Katie not wanting Ned to get married became pointless too. Not to mention other storylines that could’ve been taken out all together to allow for more time to develop the main story that everyone was interested in and making it so that EVERYONE could understand it and be satisfied. For example, the whole Rachel and Christopher storyline could be taken out in the interest of time since they were new characters that we weren’t attached to anyway.
2) Erin Krakow’s wonderful acting skills were not used properly. She was amazing at being convincing in being interested in both Nathan and Lucas throughout the past three seasons. They thought this was good because they could keep up the suspense until the finale. But this is NOT a good thing because it means we as the audience have no way of logically following the story being told. If we don’t get a window into the thoughts of the main character, of course we’re going to be left confused! This show is not meant to be a psychological thriller so this approach was extremely ineffective save for getting everyone to watch the finale. Erin’s acting made it seem like in alternate universes Elizabeth could be smitten by each. But unless you cut out the other guy’s scenes altogether this does not make sense. It is not believable for a smart, mature, well-read, kind, GOOD woman to be torn between two guys and lead them on through her interested/flirtatious behavior (longing looks count!!!) for 3 years UNLESS there was a huge obstacle between her and the one her heart really wanted and the other was a very attractive logical option. So, because Lucas is caring, thoughtful, handsome, rich, says all the right things, has a safe job and has no baggage he would be the clear attractive logical option. Nathan clearly has the big obstacle because he’s a Mountie and Elizabeth’s husband died while on duty. This is the only way “being torn” and “lost” could be acceptable for a GOOD character. If Elizabeth was a flaky teenager or a shallow player who only cared about getting attention then they could have her lead on as many guys as she liked. If they wanted her to be with Lucas and absolutely insisted on having a triangle, then the triangle should have only lasted a few episodes and once Elizabeth had realized both guys were interested (which happened late in season 6 and very clearly by the middle of season 7), she should have quickly changed her behavior towards Nathan. She could’ve directly said she’s not interested, or could have simply avoided any unnecessary encounters and behaved the way she does to any other men in town to make it clear she was not interested in him romantically.
3) “I was looking for Jack in you.” I cannot even begin to express how ridiculous this reason was to me. We got absolutely no indication of this throughout the past three years. Even the serge scene in season 8 episode 11 was not indicative of this because she was literally talking about Jack TO Nathan and we had never seen Elizabeth warm up or button Jack’s serge. The audience needs to be brought along for the ride! We need to feel and see the story not just be told this is what it was! If they wanted us to believe this, then we should have seen her say or do things that she did with Jack going back all the way to season 6 or at least the beginning of season 8. We should have seen her refer to him as “Jack” accidently either directly to him or when talking about him to Rosemary for example. And this would also only be believable if it was early on. There were absolutely zero hints about Elizabeth thinking she was getting Jack back with Nathan. Especially since we very often saw Nathan and Elizabeth interact when he was not in uniform. The only scene I can think of that could be her “seeing Jack” could be the one where she spots him riding by from the school when Lucas is there asking her to lunch (s8e11). That is not nearly enough for this reasoning to be believable. It’s not even like Nathan was in any way similar to Jack at all. It is not believable again for a smart, mature woman like Elizabeth to not be able to see past the uniform for so long even despite the grief.
4) Elizabeth’s personality change with total disregard to other people’s feelings! She was not at all like the Elizabeth we knew. Yes, grief and trauma will affect a person but you wouldn’t expect this abrupt personality change years after the incident (Jack’s death). If the trauma was Nathan almost getting shot, then that means she does in fact love Nathan. What bothers me even more is that even if she was short with people and reacted badly, she didn’t even go back to apologize and make it up to them after the fact! Even her apology to Rosemary was not satisfying to me because she waited until she needed someone to talk to….a better place for a sincere apology and a few tears of regret for her horrid behavior would’ve been after Joseph asked her about Rosemary and she realized how far she’d taken that argument. Also, after she ran off In episode 2, Elizabeth didn’t even try to talk to Nathan to apologize for leaving abruptly, see how he’s doing, clarify that she wasn’t interested and didn’t want to hurt him…AND have a good talk with Allie. Plus, even when Nathan rode by as she was telling Lucas she was ready for a “date-date”, she gave a big smile to Lucas as if she did not care that Nathan was hurt at all. This behavior would’ve only been acceptable to me if she was forcing herself to not care that he was upset to guard her own heart. But if she actually didn’t care, this is completely out of character for her.
5) I feel good, consistent, cohesive storytelling was thrown out the window either because of a last minute change or just because they wanted suspense. They built up angst all throughout seasons 6-8 and then wiped it all away with pretty much “oh yeah never mind I was never really interested in you” making so many other scenes silly and pointless: What was up with the hand game at the bachelorette party? What was the point of bringing up the “facing your fears” theme knowing that was the quote Nathan had chosen to give her? Why did she insist on having the conversation with him after the cabin incident because she needed him to know that she only “ended up in Union City with Lucas because he asked”? Why was she prodding him for a date? Why did she come up to him right before he was waiting for the prisoner transfer and smile happily when he finally asked her out before hesitating in what could only be assumed to be nervousness since “things became real”? Why did she say “it would hurt too much if I lost you the way I lost Jack”? And “I can’t”? Why did she pursue him and demanded to talk over and over again even when he was busy i.e. about to go under cover, during Bill’s send-off? It is a very important point to note that Nathan never pursued her. Not when he first arrived in HV and not at all after she ran away from him. But he did show in words and facial expression that he had fallen in love with her despite trying not to. He also said “I know you feel the same way I do” and “love is always worth fighting for” to Elizabeth (which is what she had said to Helen) and then of course there was the random totally out of place line in ep12 where Nathan tells Lucas “I always knew her heart was with you” HUH???? This makes zero sense. Episode 12 was just so inconsistent and disjointed from everything else in the series.
6) “Love is patient” is the theme they were pushing about Lucas and Elizabeth. In what way was Lucas patient that Nathan wasn’t? Lucas didn’t back off when Elizabeth said she did not want to date. He put on her scarf for her at the Union City dinner even though they were going “as friends”, he arranged a “pretend date” and did everything he would do on a date including filling the place with romantic candles, then once he saw she hugged Nathan he didn’t talk to her again then left for months only to come back and continue the same behavior (even though he sorted things out?)….she said she needed to go slow but he tried to kiss her the next time they were together; he tried to hold her hand in public and complained about the fact that she withdrew. I have no problem with Lucas as a character in HV and like Chris the actor. It’s just that the theme makes no sense!!! I think it makes sense that he would want to try to get her to like him and then want to hold her hand and that he would be jealous and insecure to know that she’s not committed while they are dating but this doesn’t make him particularly patient. I would easily argue that Nathan is the more patient of the two (just read Sheila’s wonderful letter to Hallmark)…and I only mention this because they kept bringing up this quality in Lucas otherwise it doesn’t really matter which is patient. They each have wonderful qualities. It matters who they showed us has her heart.
Thank you for this!! All of your points are spot on and just clarifies all the reasons season 8 went wrong and was messed up. I think the writer's made mistakes throughout the season and ended up being a huge dissapointment.
Horrible writting. I am finally moving on from the show. Thank you for this! much needed.
Thank you
During that time period, a school teacher would never be allowed to marry a saloon owner. That would not have been tolerated by any community.
that's why they made him sell the saloon.....so fans wont be able to hold that against lucas. its not working though
It doesn't even make sense. Elizabeth in the early years made a big deal to her parents at dinner explaining that Jack hardly drinks. For her, based on the old Elizabeth and the character we saw before season 8, to now pick a saloon owner, doesn't match... at all.
Oh no did she really lol!
@@covmyers22 and make sure they drink everytime they are together!!??
What a great review. I loved this show prior to season 8. I am done watching the show.
All of this is what I wish I could tell EVERYONE! I thought I was the only one who thought this. It was really disappointing to me the way things were written. I wish that they could have at least written the story so that fans had some sort of closure. That was the purpose of the whole season, and they didn't accomplish it. She chose between Lucas and Nathan, but there were so many subplots, arguments, and issues that were never resolved. Nothing made sense, and there were so many plot holes. Thank you for sharing this video. It helps so much to know I'm not the only one who saw this.
You definitely are not! Thinking back to it always makes me shake my head - even professionals can mess up big time…but the whole damage control is even worse than the mess up now
Anna, You weren’t the only one who saw it that way, in fact, I think you were in the majority. So many storylines went unresolved. I believe a big part of the problem was not deciding who Elizabeth would choose before the season started. By having to write toward two possible endgames in the first half of the season, neither was sufficiently developed and they never caught up. You would think experienced professionals would never make that kind of mistake.
@@ehoffman2260 I agree. I do think it shoud have been decided in the beginning. Even if it hadn't been decided until after they started writing, they could have polished things up before filming, that way the story would have flowed better. I'd also like to know why we got all this drama surrounding Nathan that didnt ever get truly resolved. In my opinion, characters should have conflict with one another to help each other grow. Nathan and Elizabeth couldn't stop challenging one another all season and what did we get out of it? Oh forget all the conflict none of it meant anything. Let's just go with the guy who doesn't wear a red surge and move on like nothing happened. It just doesn't even feel realistic to me.
@@annanorlanderauthor Exactly, They had Nathan’s life in turmoil constantly and then didn’t even get closure on most of it. And why would they put Nathan through so much if he’s not going to be the choice? It seemed like he had to justify everything and no one else had to justify anything. As you said, Nathan and Elizabeth challenged each other all season long. On the other hand, Elizabeth let Lucas avoid tough conversations time after time. That’s not how you build a lasting relationship. It didn’t make any sense to me at all. I have to tell you, when I read your initial comment, it really struck me because after I watched episode 12, I thought to myself, am I the only one who thinks this whole season was totally unrealistic.Then I started reading the avalanche of comments. (Maybe we’re not crazy after all. LOL) Hope all is well with you.
@@ehoffman2260 I agree. Hope all is well with you as well.
Awesome analogy! I agree, there is just so much to deal with and way too much drama!
I support your channel so much. ♥️ but because this season was handled so badly in that last and final episode, and because the execs on the show shut down on any comments about how genuinely upset we are and cheated we feel, I can’t keep watching When Calls The Heart. It was just overwhelmingly disappointing that I trusted the writing all the way up until the last episode and they abandoned all storyline decisions at the last minute. And I genuinely believe Elizabeth should be ashamed of herself for how she handled these two suitors and especially how she never apologized to Allie. I can’t support her character anymore, she was a terrible disappointment this season.
I’m not watching either
At least there are so many of us out there who are feeling the same things about it, makes me feel less alone in my frustration and sadness!
I am glad I am not the only one who does not like Elizabeth any longer. She has morphed into an unlikeable spoiled brat, and people were calling Allie a brat! They have truly spoiled this show and made the characters and storylines cringeworthy. I really would not mind if Elizabeth and Lucas left the show or moved out of Hope Valley.
The writing was definitely all over the place this season which made the “love triangle” storyline very inconsistent. I didn’t see it as a love triangle at all!!! For me, I think the show missed out on a great storyline opportunity this past season. If they had no intention of putting Elizabeth with another Mountie, I think they should have introduced a young Mountie and his new bride to Hope Valley! That would have been a great storyline to build on especially with having Elizabeth helping them navigate the dangers and struggles that the new couple would be facing, having gone through it herself. Then Elizabeth’s relationship with Lucas would have been more accepting to us fans. I love the show and the actors are fantastic in their roles but in my opinion, they took a risk in taking the show in a different direction last season and it completely backfired on them!
So Ellie, thank you..... this does express a lot of the stuff I’ve thought about. And I also totally agree that I would have gladly sacrificed the Rachel/Christopher story line in order to finish up the triangle in a more satisfactory manner. I also feel the story telling in season 8 was a disaster. After a difficult pandemic year I needed a happy show. I was not on Team Nathan at the beginning of the season, but his declaration of love in episode 2 started swaying me and I was a goner by the parent teacher conference. I feel the following episodes did much to keep Nathan’s hope alive even though Elizabeth was dating Lucas. I personally grew to admire Nathan more and more as he persevered under the fire of season 8’s events. I feel the storyline clearly led us to want Nathan and to be faithful to Nathan. I grew to care for him very much and now I realize I care for him more than his creators. The season finale was one of worst viewing experiences I’ve ever had. Watching Elizabeth dump Nathan with such immature words and then swing suddenly to passionately kissing Lucas, was an emotional whiplash that left me feeling nauseated and confused and led to sleepless nights for a week. WCTH I am now a guarded heartie, I don’t trust you. I love Nathan and Allie enough to want to see them in season 9, but only if I can read the reviews before I watch to known if it will be a safe viewing experience and not more heartbreak.
Yes! Another weird thing: Nathan was way more patient than Lucas, so how can they use the "Love is patient" theme for the L&E storyline. Lucas was getting to date her, hold her hand, spend quality time with her. Nathan was holding on to the little bit of hope she had left him when she didn't answer to his "I know you feel the same way I do"...he was truly a patient man. Lucas was being way too avoidant- he had a right to tell Elizabeth that her behavior was hurting him. Instead he let it out on Nathan
I can’t be a heartie. I’m surprised you trust the show. Such a disappointment and crush to me.
I'm not sure you will see more of Nathan and Allie.They have to spend time trying to give depth to Lucas and convince the viewers he is the right choice for Elisabeth.
I agree with your comments Jennifer. "If" I watch S9 it will be because of Nathan, Allie and some of those wonderful characters we've come to love. They created total chaos with that awful heartbreaking conclusion. I doubt it can be fixed, they all seem to be thrilled with that ending. I don't trust the writers to be able to write themselves out of that corner.
Bernardine Jolly, June 2, 2021
It is almost a month since the end of S8 on May 9. I have reviewed almost every day episodes from S6 and S7 and have gone back to watch again S8. In April I found watching WCTH extremely stressful. I took the time to learn who the producers and the writers were. I fully intend to study your excellent analysis of what went wrong with S8. I wish to point out additional storylines which were dropped. During the Mountie inquiry Bills says several times to Nathan that the Inspector has a personal vendetta against you. My question is whether Nathan discovered the Inspector knew the training exercise was too dangerous and was he responsible for Jack Thornton's death. Bill states that he is going to look into it further. Is that why the inspector wants to have Nathan removed from the Mounties?
Considering the strange out-of-character episode 12, I include, Elizabeth, Lucas, and Nathan, the entire set of scenes with Elizabeth speaking with Katie and Ned makes no sense. ""Our greatest risk is our greatest joy". "Life is brief and often unexpected." Elizabeth is either lying to herself or she is totally without any self-awareness.
Another scene which I found totally distasteful was putting Mountie Nathan with Faith. Landis, the school inspector, said, if he had to he would replace Elizabeth with another teacher. This is a possible storyline with a new teacher and Mountie Nathan, it just would not be Elizabeth Thornton. Regardless of where S9 goes with the various stories, Mountie Nathan will still be the leading man story.
When JT was asked on his "live," if there was any more to the story of Inspector Hargraves and FortClay, he said, "Yes there is." I wonder how long we have to wait for the rest of that story?
That’s right!!!! The inquiry storyline also was dropped along with the adoption storyline!
Yes. This whole video. Just...yes.
The reason I got so irritated with the show was the story telling/writing. Nothing to do with her end choice.