"I don't know what Nightblood's gonna do but that's important somehow" In retrospective of this retrospective, that's the understatement of the century.
On pacing: I think the reason there are so many pacing opinions isn't actually to do with pacing. Oathbringer is the stormlight book most clearly plotted as a trilogy. The first "book" is a pretty small story with it's own climax when they fight the first unmade. Then Oathbringer slows down again as we move to an entirely new story with Kholinar, and if you were super into that first story maybe it's a letdown. Then after the Kholinar climax it slows down yet again as we move to a whole new story with Shadesmar, and again maybe that's disappointing if you were loving Kholinar. If you think of it as three books, the pacing is much better, as the calmer parts are not breaks in the story, but the beginnings of new stories. That's how I was thinking of it, and the pacing never bothered me.
Can’t Kal and Shallan just have a connection without it being romantic? They were two broken people who related to each other, that’s all. The world changed and their powers weren’t secret anymore, so they moved on. I dunno. I didnt really see it as a triangle. Adolin is healthier for her anyway. And they’re betrothed, so there’s THAT.
I never really saw Kal having as a romantic interest in Shallan. It was mostly him trying to figure some thongs about himself. It was Syl who that of it as something romantic. The romantic interest was from Shallan/Viel only, and that too in an unrequited manner.
i read the stormlight archives before i read warbreaker so i didnt know about vivenna and nightblood until i read oathbringer the second time and figured it out, then my mind exploded!!!!
I have an interesting opposing opinion on Shallan. When Jasnah started ordering her around, I, without any input from Shallan, was like 'No, no, no, no. I don't want Shallan to lose her individuality' I bugged me for a good long while and I was happy when Shallan said 'Let's call the wardship done.' Note that I'm aware that Shallan was being immature, as being Knight Radiant doesn't absolve, say, Kaladin from taking orders from Dalinar, but I wanted compromise. Jasnah to give more than just surface level credit to Shallan, but also not diminish Shallan's presence within a group Shallan helped forge. Personally, I sympathised with Shallan, so it felt like my hard word was being taken from me. Part 2 was a drag otherwise
My first read through, I thought Ameran was being built up to be Odium's Champion. I wasn't expecting it was to be Dalinar until it came to head at the end. I do agree that this was a big hand off from Ameran to Moash as the big transition to being Kaladin's Foil. For the love triangle, I think it is a transition to being Shallan and Kaladin being best friends. I think Shallan and Adolin are showing Kaladin that not all "high born" people are bad. Many are pretty cool people and he needs to let go of his bigotry to light eyes. The growth of Adolin I found a big set up for him resurrecting his sword. I mean can you picture Adolin with an Edge Dancer's powers? I felt so much is leading to that being the big pay off. Back to Shallan though, It also shows her struggling with her borderline multiple personality disorder. I can't help but to feel most of the love triangle is perpetuated by her and Syl. I find Bridge Four parts was a counter swing with Szeth's training. I felt we were seeing how training was being done well with Szeth but with Bridge Four, we were being shown how they were making it up as they go along. I also felt Bridge Four parts were setting us up for the next book since we had the first 3 main characters flashed back, we got to be ready for different characters to get flashbacked for book 4. I bet it will be Szeth though. Speaking of Seth, with him finally bound to Dalinar, I have to ask, At what point does he out King Taravangian. I also want to see Rlain get an honor spren! What form will he take and will he have both sets of surges! Also, did anyone catch that Timbre maybe Ico's daughter? Then there was Renarin's growth as a character through the book. His appearances were brief but he was so damn significant whenever he showed up. Especially when Jasnah had to decide to kill him or not. Leads to also the question of tainted Spren and with Sja-anat. There is hints that the unmade can be redeemed too... maybe... dare I say... remade? Lastly was the interlude to the island where the soulcaster becomes smoke. Later we see the Soulcasters making food becoming all covered in vines. Then we see the various spren in shadesmar having those attributes. I have a strong suspicion that these people are becoming spren!
I really wanted Shallan to pick Kaladin... But he's right, you can't blame Adolin, he's so easygoing, you can't be mad at him... And the series hasn't ended yet ;)
I dont think szeth knows anything about taravangian beyond what taravangina told dalinar. In fact, szeth serving him was probably one of the points that forced taravangian to let a bit of the dirt out.
Hey guys.. I loved this book.. While I thought Ur discussion was great, I wanted to point one thing that I thought u guys missed out about shallan and her arc.. Shallan and her use of her powers is actually a way to hide behind other characters. Almost like split personalities, where each one is a different person. And these develope often from some emotional shocks. She has had some aweful emotional shocks.. So, her creating sit personalities, then each personality showing their own preference, the shallan finally trying to overcome her emotional deficiencies.. I thought it was a gud arc. For me, it was never a developed love triangle.. it was just more of how she is going to take care of her personalities and their preferences...
Y'all asked for our Oathbringer reactions, so here we go. I was lucky enough to re-read Stormlight in audiobook format the last time, which helped me to go slower and pick out details I had previously missed (I read ridiculously quickly, and sometimes skip over things when the story gets exciting). And what I noticed the most during the readthrough was how much more I liked Jasnah. Now, don't get me wrong. Jasnah was and always has been objectively the coolest Kholin and probably the coolest Cosmere character at all. But on my first read of Oathbringer I was channeling Shallan maybe a little too much? And Jasnah's insistence on being a moderating influence on Shallan grated on me nearly as much as it did on Shallan. On the re-read, however, I found it a lot easier to understand and empathise with Jasnah's decisions. Because I read so quickly I usually end a book the way Shannon described, generally to emotionally exhausted to have any feelings left over. But during my re-read I was able to take time and think about the things that happened during the Brandon avalanche, and that really changed how I felt about the radients (plus Adolin) that we saw. When Dalinar went out into the mist with just a book and then becomes Unity, I thought it couldn't get any better. When Kaladin defeated Amaram, I thought it couldn't get any better. When Shallan lightwove an entire army, I thought it couldn't get any better. But then Jasnah shows up onscreen, shardcasting and analyzing and slicing enemies to shreds, and I knew it couldn't get any better. Her POVs in 119 and 120 are my absolute favorite part of Oathbringer.
Read it twice on my own, reading it aloud to my wife now. I love reading Sanderson to someone else and get the real time reactions. Edit after listening to the Vivenna discussion: I was like Grace, and the slow uncertain reveal was incredible. To be fair though, I didn't even realize it who Zahel was until nightblood showed up.
Oathbringer felt like I was cruzing down the road with the wind blowing threw my hair (its funny because I'm bald) in part 1, then I started running out of gas and have no clue where a gas station is....then I come to a 12% grade and realized I don't have breaks....so now I'm screaming and white knuckling downhill with no hope and no plan, knowing I'm going to die. Finally, I wake up to the smell of coffee and bacon and kinda understand everything I just read.....kind of🥴
Odds on Kaladin swearing the Fourth Ideal as he accepts that he can't save Moash (from himself)? And that gives him the edge (Plate) to beat Moash. This is assuming the Ideal is along the lines of "I will accept that there are those I cannot save (even from themselves)."
Speaking of Amaram, the transition to him becoming the villain isn't perfectly smooth, but everything is there really that you need to know the character could and would change. I also don't think it could have been done naturally either given the fact that Sadeas troops turn on Thaylen City later on is meant to be a surprise. However, his death at the hands of Rock or Bridge 4 really is important. It is a very important realization for kaladin, that he doesn't need to do all the saving, that other can save him too, that his friends are there to help just as much as he is there for them. And it is a good counter point to Moash killing Elhokar, Moash felt empty after he did it but Kaladin was not and that is a very important contrast. It may not be immediately satisfying but if you read the few chapters before and after it, it makes total sense.
One thing about the pacing: on my first read through I thought the Kholinar sequence was so slow because I hadn’t clued in on the fact that it was only gonna be part 3. So I thought Shallan was taking forever to do what she had to do because I thought they were gonna keep on doing more Kholinar stuff, and I thought the wall guard was gonna be around a little longer so I didn’t understand why they were spending so much time with them. So when it all just ended I thought it was rushed. Rereading it knowing that it was all gonna end at part 3, I found it much more enjoyable.
Freddy Ramirez I like to think of Oathbringer as a series of connected - but separate - novellas. I think the three novellas concept is helpful for the broad arc of the story, but even those novels seem pretty clearly broken up. I have read the book at least five times, and I sort of started to hate it because the pacing was so weird. The last time I read it I started to think of it along the “several novellas” line and it changed my whole experience - I loved it.
Do you guys plan on doing an episode about Kelsier and what you think his future role in the cosmere will be? I think that would be pretty interesting!
I think Grace is going into this "love triangle" thing the wrong way, because she is treating it like it was supposed to be a love triangle subplot...when I think Brandon intentionally designed it to NOT be a love triangle subplot. It was designed as the START of a triangle, and intentionally never developed into a real triangle. I think the readers have pulled WAY more out of Kaladin and Shallan's brief time getting to know each other than actually existed. It caused a brief stir of feelings between the two of them, but I wouldn't call that a triangle. What happened in OB is actually exactly what I would have told you I expected to happen after the end of WoR, and that made it deeply satisfying to me. Anything more between Shallan and Kaladin would have felt contrived. They were passively fond of each other, but honestly, I never saw it as a real romantic interest. Veil DID have a more genuine romantic interest in Kaladin...but Shallan just never did, so there was never really a question about who she would choose. I agree with a ton of what Evgeni said. Also Adolin is so adorable and just a treasure.allan and Kaladin were passively fond of each other, but honestly, I never saw it as a real romantic interest. Veil DID have a more genuine romantic interest in Kaladin...but Shallan just never did, so there was n
Jennifer I totally agree. I think the connection they had in the chasms was very meaningful but it doesn’t have to be romantic. Not the MENTION the fact that it really helped Kaladin and Adolin’s relationship!
Vivenna could be important for some the Horneater peaks POVs that we will need as the Unmade and Voidspren are moving towards Cultivation's perpendicularity. Besides Szeth meeting Vivenna is definitely gonna be weird and spicy
Rhythm of War has changed my opinion of Oathbringer drastically. I honestly find RoW to be kinda weak, at least on its own, but it fits very well into the Cosmere as a whole. Oathbringer felt like a very natural conclusion to a 3-book arc.
They are two Bridge 4 moments that I'm looking forward to: 1) The akwardness of Sigzil when he finally meets Hoid again. I expect a lot of sputtering. :) 2) Rock's experience/lore of the perpendarity around the waters of the mountain. PS - I knew he was Special in The Way of Kings...
I don't think the Dalinar v. Moash comparisons are fair when Dalinar had years of magical intervention to reach this point while Moash is dealing with this all on his own. When Dalinar was left to his own devices he responded by being a useless drunk, at least Moash is doing *something* with his convictions
I feel that Moash is a far better foil to Kaladin than Dalinar. They have similar origins, were wronged by the same person (Elhokar via Roshone), and are idealistically opposed. Kaladin responded to his circumstances by ultimately taking responsibility for himself and others (side note: this is why I think Kaladin's Fourth Ideal won't have anything to do with "forgive myself for those I can't save". The Ideals are all about actions and external deeds. They are driven by personal understanding of what is right and so on, but they're always externally shown.) Moash is the typical Millenial actually. He was wronged legitimately, but refuses to move on from it and ignores opportunity to grow because his pain is the only thing that matters. And, in the end, he loses even that. He is an empty vessel ready to be filled by whatever spirit of Hatred that his overlords see fit to stuff in him.
I hated how Shallan could take a bolt to the face or a sword through the chest and heal herself no problem. It kills the tension when the protagonists aren't in any danger. Brandon should have left the healing powers to those with Regrowth.
Saved this for a road trip! I dislike Shallan and Jasnah despite liking politics so part 2 was pretty rough for me. I particularly hate that Shallan gave herself pseudo MPD. I really enjoyed part 3 and I still have questions about what was going on in Kholinar. Was not a huge fan of the shadesmar sections, too weird even compared to the regular Roshar weird. But the non-shadesmar stuff was pretty interesting. I thought the love triangle was disastrous and poorly written. I have no issues with Adolin/Shallan. The A/S relationship seems somewhat unhealthy, but it can evolve into a better place. I think it would have worked better if K/S just developed into really close friends. But the whole thing seemed contrived to me from the start. A shorter speech between Amaram and Kaladin would work better imo, and definitely a few sections earlier in the book where Amaram looked troubled or haggard or said something to Ialai to indicate he was dealing with issues.
I disagree that Veil was the one who like Kaladin. Shallan is the persona with the quips, which is the basis of her chemistry with Kaladin. Shallan is the one who likes Kaladin. Full stop. And Kaladin thinking Shallan reminds him of Tien, that's fair, but I don't think that discredits their chemistry, it only adds to the quips that Kaladin enjoyed with his mother. I like Adolin, I like Kaladin, I just feel Sandy took a shortcut to resolving this, and I don't feel anyone but Adolin was being sincere. There's a possibility that Sandy made Shallan and Kaladin make excuses now so there will be conflict later. Like for something along the lines of Adolin dies and there's a similar situation to Dalinar and Navani
Just re-read OB at I totally agree. I feel like he did kaladin and shallan dirty by purposefully not including scenes with them so we couldnt see them together. Like when he flies her to thayelna, when I first read that they were going I was so excited to get more development but he purposefully skipped it. I agree though, I feel like this isnt the end of them. There is still two more books to come. However, I think neither of them are ready yet, they need to sort themselves internally before they can even begin to look externally (kaladin needs to swear the 4th ideal)
@@brandonjohnson6326 Oh for sure they both still need to grow. I still need to grow, since I'm still stuck in that chasm with them during the highstorm
To do with the Kal/Amaram fight. I'm guessing none of you have been in many fights lol. When people are fighting toe-to-toe, people tend to talk shit. That's essentially what they were doing with the exposition. I didn't find it at all weird, but I've been in a few fights in my life.
Kaladin imo knows Shallan better than Adoelin Shallan has not told Adoelin her biggest secrets that she murdered her parents... Shallan never discussed that Kaladin murdered her brother with him. Once she found that out Veil started liking Kaladin because Kaladin didn’t kill Veil’s brother. Adoelin had no flaws in Oathbringer. He was just supportive of everyone. He murdered Sadeas but no repercussions from it. He seemed to a playboy but now he is on in on Shallan not sure. I didn’t like the plot to assassinate Elokhar in WOR I thought they should’ve been trying to assassinate Sadeas not Elokhar. I also thought it was oddly convenient that Shallan found the ghost bloods. Only done one read through and like Oathbringer better.
The Way of Kings started slow, and Kal was mostly tidious, but the end was cool. The second book was really good, but Oathbringer was just tedious wall to wall. I didn't want to return to read it, but I forced myself, because I like to finish books. I couldn't... all the whiny characters were boring (why should one give powers to disfunctionals idiots???), the only human-like character was forcefully killed to push the plot onward, and it was done in an unreliable way, then another normal character that already matured personally started to return to drug use... at that moment I just left the book, it was just bad writing. I couldn't care less what will happen. I understand there isa big battle at the end and what not... I just don't care.
Hey, Eric...here’s a tip. Lower your voice and dampen the enthusiasm in your introduction. It blows out me ears (especially on the podcast) and is kinda annoying. You don’t really talk like that elsewhere, so I’m not really sure why you do that. These would be a lot more enjoyable if you toned down to the same vocal consistency everyone else is on
What’s wrong with love stories? It was actually very interesting....I mean y’all act like the best stories don’t have a great couple. Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings???
"I don't know what Nightblood's gonna do but that's important somehow"
In retrospective of this retrospective, that's the understatement of the century.
Bwahahaha. I love reading comments like this to remind us of hilarious quotes like that. That is amazing. -Eric
On pacing: I think the reason there are so many pacing opinions isn't actually to do with pacing. Oathbringer is the stormlight book most clearly plotted as a trilogy. The first "book" is a pretty small story with it's own climax when they fight the first unmade. Then Oathbringer slows down again as we move to an entirely new story with Kholinar, and if you were super into that first story maybe it's a letdown. Then after the Kholinar climax it slows down yet again as we move to a whole new story with Shadesmar, and again maybe that's disappointing if you were loving Kholinar. If you think of it as three books, the pacing is much better, as the calmer parts are not breaks in the story, but the beginnings of new stories. That's how I was thinking of it, and the pacing never bothered me.
kaladin finds sqads like kelsier makes cults
Kaladin Squadblessed
Can’t Kal and Shallan just have a connection without it being romantic? They were two broken people who related to each other, that’s all. The world changed and their powers weren’t secret anymore, so they moved on. I dunno. I didnt really see it as a triangle. Adolin is healthier for her anyway. And they’re betrothed, so there’s THAT.
Like Johnny and dutch from the killhoys tv series xD
I never really saw Kal having as a romantic interest in Shallan. It was mostly him trying to figure some thongs about himself. It was Syl who that of it as something romantic. The romantic interest was from Shallan/Viel only, and that too in an unrequited manner.
i read the stormlight archives before i read warbreaker so i didnt know about vivenna and nightblood until i read oathbringer the second time and figured it out, then my mind exploded!!!!
I have an interesting opposing opinion on Shallan. When Jasnah started ordering her around, I, without any input from Shallan, was like 'No, no, no, no. I don't want Shallan to lose her individuality' I bugged me for a good long while and I was happy when Shallan said 'Let's call the wardship done.' Note that I'm aware that Shallan was being immature, as being Knight Radiant doesn't absolve, say, Kaladin from taking orders from Dalinar, but I wanted compromise. Jasnah to give more than just surface level credit to Shallan, but also not diminish Shallan's presence within a group Shallan helped forge. Personally, I sympathised with Shallan, so it felt like my hard word was being taken from me.
Part 2 was a drag otherwise
My first read through, I thought Ameran was being built up to be Odium's Champion. I wasn't expecting it was to be Dalinar until it came to head at the end. I do agree that this was a big hand off from Ameran to Moash as the big transition to being Kaladin's Foil.
For the love triangle, I think it is a transition to being Shallan and Kaladin being best friends. I think Shallan and Adolin are showing Kaladin that not all "high born" people are bad. Many are pretty cool people and he needs to let go of his bigotry to light eyes. The growth of Adolin I found a big set up for him resurrecting his sword. I mean can you picture Adolin with an Edge Dancer's powers? I felt so much is leading to that being the big pay off. Back to Shallan though, It also shows her struggling with her borderline multiple personality disorder. I can't help but to feel most of the love triangle is perpetuated by her and Syl.
I find Bridge Four parts was a counter swing with Szeth's training. I felt we were seeing how training was being done well with Szeth but with Bridge Four, we were being shown how they were making it up as they go along. I also felt Bridge Four parts were setting us up for the next book since we had the first 3 main characters flashed back, we got to be ready for different characters to get flashbacked for book 4. I bet it will be Szeth though.
Speaking of Seth, with him finally bound to Dalinar, I have to ask, At what point does he out King Taravangian.
I also want to see Rlain get an honor spren! What form will he take and will he have both sets of surges!
Also, did anyone catch that Timbre maybe Ico's daughter?
Then there was Renarin's growth as a character through the book. His appearances were brief but he was so damn significant whenever he showed up. Especially when Jasnah had to decide to kill him or not.
Leads to also the question of tainted Spren and with Sja-anat. There is hints that the unmade can be redeemed too... maybe... dare I say... remade?
Lastly was the interlude to the island where the soulcaster becomes smoke. Later we see the Soulcasters making food becoming all covered in vines. Then we see the various spren in shadesmar having those attributes. I have a strong suspicion that these people are becoming spren!
I really wanted Shallan to pick Kaladin... But he's right, you can't blame Adolin, he's so easygoing, you can't be mad at him... And the series hasn't ended yet ;)
I dont think szeth knows anything about taravangian beyond what taravangina told dalinar. In fact, szeth serving him was probably one of the points that forced taravangian to let a bit of the dirt out.
Hey guys.. I loved this book..
While I thought Ur discussion was great, I wanted to point one thing that I thought u guys missed out about shallan and her arc..
Shallan and her use of her powers is actually a way to hide behind other characters. Almost like split personalities, where each one is a different person. And these develope often from some emotional shocks. She has had some aweful emotional shocks..
So, her creating sit personalities, then each personality showing their own preference, the shallan finally trying to overcome her emotional deficiencies.. I thought it was a gud arc. For me, it was never a developed love triangle.. it was just more of how she is going to take care of her personalities and their preferences...
Y'all asked for our Oathbringer reactions, so here we go. I was lucky enough to re-read Stormlight in audiobook format the last time, which helped me to go slower and pick out details I had previously missed (I read ridiculously quickly, and sometimes skip over things when the story gets exciting). And what I noticed the most during the readthrough was how much more I liked Jasnah.
Now, don't get me wrong. Jasnah was and always has been objectively the coolest Kholin and probably the coolest Cosmere character at all. But on my first read of Oathbringer I was channeling Shallan maybe a little too much? And Jasnah's insistence on being a moderating influence on Shallan grated on me nearly as much as it did on Shallan. On the re-read, however, I found it a lot easier to understand and empathise with Jasnah's decisions.
Because I read so quickly I usually end a book the way Shannon described, generally to emotionally exhausted to have any feelings left over. But during my re-read I was able to take time and think about the things that happened during the Brandon avalanche, and that really changed how I felt about the radients (plus Adolin) that we saw. When Dalinar went out into the mist with just a book and then becomes Unity, I thought it couldn't get any better. When Kaladin defeated Amaram, I thought it couldn't get any better. When Shallan lightwove an entire army, I thought it couldn't get any better. But then Jasnah shows up onscreen, shardcasting and analyzing and slicing enemies to shreds, and I knew it couldn't get any better. Her POVs in 119 and 120 are my absolute favorite part of Oathbringer.
Where should I start with his book series I’ve read miss born and storm light that’s it please and thank you 🙏
Read it twice on my own, reading it aloud to my wife now. I love reading Sanderson to someone else and get the real time reactions.
Edit after listening to the Vivenna discussion: I was like Grace, and the slow uncertain reveal was incredible. To be fair though, I didn't even realize it who Zahel was until nightblood showed up.
Oathbringer felt like I was cruzing down the road with the wind blowing threw my hair (its funny because I'm bald) in part 1, then I started running out of gas and have no clue where a gas station is....then I come to a 12% grade and realized I don't have breaks....so now I'm screaming and white knuckling downhill with no hope and no plan, knowing I'm going to die. Finally, I wake up to the smell of coffee and bacon and kinda understand everything I just read.....kind of🥴
Odds on Kaladin swearing the Fourth Ideal as he accepts that he can't save Moash (from himself)? And that gives him the edge (Plate) to beat Moash. This is assuming the Ideal is along the lines of "I will accept that there are those I cannot save (even from themselves)."
Commenting so you can feel kinda smug, You were pretty close!
Speaking of Amaram, the transition to him becoming the villain isn't perfectly smooth, but everything is there really that you need to know the character could and would change. I also don't think it could have been done naturally either given the fact that Sadeas troops turn on Thaylen City later on is meant to be a surprise. However, his death at the hands of Rock or Bridge 4 really is important. It is a very important realization for kaladin, that he doesn't need to do all the saving, that other can save him too, that his friends are there to help just as much as he is there for them. And it is a good counter point to Moash killing Elhokar, Moash felt empty after he did it but Kaladin was not and that is a very important contrast. It may not be immediately satisfying but if you read the few chapters before and after it, it makes total sense.
Way of King's is still my favourite but this series is a joy to read.
the few months after Oathbringer released were such exciting times
Eric’s intro is so iconic
One thing about the pacing: on my first read through I thought the Kholinar sequence was so slow because I hadn’t clued in on the fact that it was only gonna be part 3. So I thought Shallan was taking forever to do what she had to do because I thought they were gonna keep on doing more Kholinar stuff, and I thought the wall guard was gonna be around a little longer so I didn’t understand why they were spending so much time with them. So when it all just ended I thought it was rushed. Rereading it knowing that it was all gonna end at part 3, I found it much more enjoyable.
Freddy Ramirez I like to think of Oathbringer as a series of connected - but separate - novellas. I think the three novellas concept is helpful for the broad arc of the story, but even those novels seem pretty clearly broken up. I have read the book at least five times, and I sort of started to hate it because the pacing was so weird. The last time I read it I started to think of it along the “several novellas” line and it changed my whole experience - I loved it.
So Eric says, "Join us in Discord." Apparently you work for Odium.
I've read it five times and still think it's the best book I've ever read 😅
Do you guys plan on doing an episode about Kelsier and what you think his future role in the cosmere will be? I think that would be pretty interesting!
Yep, that's been on our list for a while! Might be a bit longer until we do that, though. But yes, it will absolutely happen. -Eric
Interesting discussion on Vivena. I still don't know who that is as SA was my first Brandon Sanderson read.
To quote Brandon "I don't like love triangles, I DO like complicated relationships."
I see David wasn’t far off with his “reading the Way of Kings backwards” idea ;)
I think Grace is going into this "love triangle" thing the wrong way, because she is treating it like it was supposed to be a love triangle subplot...when I think Brandon intentionally designed it to NOT be a love triangle subplot. It was designed as the START of a triangle, and intentionally never developed into a real triangle. I think the readers have pulled WAY more out of Kaladin and Shallan's brief time getting to know each other than actually existed. It caused a brief stir of feelings between the two of them, but I wouldn't call that a triangle. What happened in OB is actually exactly what I would have told you I expected to happen after the end of WoR, and that made it deeply satisfying to me. Anything more between Shallan and Kaladin would have felt contrived. They were passively fond of each other, but honestly, I never saw it as a real romantic interest. Veil DID have a more genuine romantic interest in Kaladin...but Shallan just never did, so there was never really a question about who she would choose. I agree with a ton of what Evgeni said.
Also Adolin is so adorable and just a treasure.allan and Kaladin were passively fond of each other, but honestly, I never saw it as a real romantic interest. Veil DID have a more genuine romantic interest in Kaladin...but Shallan just never did, so there was n
Jennifer I totally agree. I think the connection they had in the chasms was very meaningful but it doesn’t have to be romantic. Not the MENTION the fact that it really helped Kaladin and Adolin’s relationship!
Vivenna could be important for some the Horneater peaks POVs that we will need as the Unmade and Voidspren are moving towards Cultivation's perpendicularity. Besides Szeth meeting Vivenna is definitely gonna be weird and spicy
Rhythm of War has changed my opinion of Oathbringer drastically. I honestly find RoW to be kinda weak, at least on its own, but it fits very well into the Cosmere as a whole. Oathbringer felt like a very natural conclusion to a 3-book arc.
They are two Bridge 4 moments that I'm looking forward to:
1) The akwardness of Sigzil when he finally meets Hoid again. I expect a lot of sputtering. :)
2) Rock's experience/lore of the perpendarity around the waters of the mountain.
PS - I knew he was Special in The Way of Kings...
hasn't sigzil already met Hoid? He was Sig's teacher wasn't he?
@@cameronlaing8746 that's true. I ment when they meet again. :)
I'll change it now..
I love Adolin and Shalan together! I was rooting for them 💕
I don't think the Dalinar v. Moash comparisons are fair when Dalinar had years of magical intervention to reach this point while Moash is dealing with this all on his own. When Dalinar was left to his own devices he responded by being a useless drunk, at least Moash is doing *something* with his convictions
I feel that Moash is a far better foil to Kaladin than Dalinar. They have similar origins, were wronged by the same person (Elhokar via Roshone), and are idealistically opposed. Kaladin responded to his circumstances by ultimately taking responsibility for himself and others (side note: this is why I think Kaladin's Fourth Ideal won't have anything to do with "forgive myself for those I can't save". The Ideals are all about actions and external deeds. They are driven by personal understanding of what is right and so on, but they're always externally shown.)
Moash is the typical Millenial actually. He was wronged legitimately, but refuses to move on from it and ignores opportunity to grow because his pain is the only thing that matters. And, in the end, he loses even that. He is an empty vessel ready to be filled by whatever spirit of Hatred that his overlords see fit to stuff in him.
Oathbringer good
Ben: you cant reread a book to many times or you get sick of it
Me: (having finished the book 4 times within a month of release) am I a freak?
WTCC - 1:54:46
Eric is energy and Evengi is his opposite
I hated how Shallan could take a bolt to the face or a sword through the chest and heal herself no problem. It kills the tension when the protagonists aren't in any danger. Brandon should have left the healing powers to those with Regrowth.
Saved this for a road trip!
I dislike Shallan and Jasnah despite liking politics so part 2 was pretty rough for me. I particularly hate that Shallan gave herself pseudo MPD. I really enjoyed part 3 and I still have questions about what was going on in Kholinar. Was not a huge fan of the shadesmar sections, too weird even compared to the regular Roshar weird. But the non-shadesmar stuff was pretty interesting.
I thought the love triangle was disastrous and poorly written. I have no issues with Adolin/Shallan. The A/S relationship seems somewhat unhealthy, but it can evolve into a better place. I think it would have worked better if K/S just developed into really close friends. But the whole thing seemed contrived to me from the start.
A shorter speech between Amaram and Kaladin would work better imo, and definitely a few sections earlier in the book where Amaram looked troubled or haggard or said something to Ialai to indicate he was dealing with issues.
I like Moash
How is Shannon's hair so shiny?
But Amaram was not driven by passion. He acted on a perceived necessity. Amaram tried a Taravangian to get Yelig-Nar.
Can you guys do a shardcast on mistborn era 2
We're going to do a lot of them! -Eric
Second era ? Dose it not end in the well of ascension
I disagree that Veil was the one who like Kaladin. Shallan is the persona with the quips, which is the basis of her chemistry with Kaladin. Shallan is the one who likes Kaladin. Full stop. And Kaladin thinking Shallan reminds him of Tien, that's fair, but I don't think that discredits their chemistry, it only adds to the quips that Kaladin enjoyed with his mother. I like Adolin, I like Kaladin, I just feel Sandy took a shortcut to resolving this, and I don't feel anyone but Adolin was being sincere. There's a possibility that Sandy made Shallan and Kaladin make excuses now so there will be conflict later. Like for something along the lines of Adolin dies and there's a similar situation to Dalinar and Navani
Reece Naidu naw, I thought she reminded him of Syl
Just re-read OB at I totally agree. I feel like he did kaladin and shallan dirty by purposefully not including scenes with them so we couldnt see them together. Like when he flies her to thayelna, when I first read that they were going I was so excited to get more development but he purposefully skipped it. I agree though, I feel like this isnt the end of them. There is still two more books to come. However, I think neither of them are ready yet, they need to sort themselves internally before they can even begin to look externally (kaladin needs to swear the 4th ideal)
@@brandonjohnson6326 Oh for sure they both still need to grow. I still need to grow, since I'm still stuck in that chasm with them during the highstorm
In the love triangle thing. Who said its been resolved. There is still two books left
I really hope it's done. The series really could have done without it.
Ian's beard makes me 10% more gay
To do with the Kal/Amaram fight. I'm guessing none of you have been in many fights lol. When people are fighting toe-to-toe, people tend to talk shit. That's essentially what they were doing with the exposition. I didn't find it at all weird, but I've been in a few fights in my life.
That wasn't my personal issue with the Amaram fight. Mine was more that Amaram's fall to Odium didn't seem well telegraphed. -Eric
Kaladin imo knows Shallan better than Adoelin
Shallan has not told Adoelin her biggest secrets that she murdered her parents...
Shallan never discussed that Kaladin murdered her brother with him. Once she found that out Veil started liking Kaladin because Kaladin didn’t kill Veil’s brother.
Adoelin had no flaws in Oathbringer. He was just supportive of everyone. He murdered Sadeas but no repercussions from it. He seemed to a playboy but now he is on in on Shallan not sure.
I didn’t like the plot to assassinate Elokhar in WOR I thought they should’ve been trying to assassinate Sadeas not Elokhar. I also thought it was oddly convenient that Shallan found the ghost bloods.
Only done one read through and like Oathbringer better.
The Way of Kings started slow, and Kal was mostly tidious, but the end was cool. The second book was really good, but Oathbringer was just tedious wall to wall. I didn't want to return to read it, but I forced myself, because I like to finish books. I couldn't... all the whiny characters were boring (why should one give powers to disfunctionals idiots???), the only human-like character was forcefully killed to push the plot onward, and it was done in an unreliable way, then another normal character that already matured personally started to return to drug use... at that moment I just left the book, it was just bad writing. I couldn't care less what will happen. I understand there isa big battle at the end and what not... I just don't care.
Hey, Eric...here’s a tip. Lower your voice and dampen the enthusiasm in your introduction. It blows out me ears (especially on the podcast) and is kinda annoying. You don’t really talk like that elsewhere, so I’m not really sure why you do that. These would be a lot more enjoyable if you toned down to the same vocal consistency everyone else is on
What’s wrong with love stories? It was actually very interesting....I mean y’all act like the best stories don’t have a great couple. Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings???