Kapton Tape Supercapacitor?
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
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Can you make a supercapacitor from kapton tape? Yep! Using a laser, we can decompose the Kapton (polyimide) into a graphene "foam" via a process known as Laser Induced Graphene. This form of graphene makes an excellent material for electrostatic double-layer supercapacitors. It has reasonable conductivity and a very large surface area due to the foamy nature, which allows good contact with the electrolyte.
"Lin, Jian, et al. "Laser-induced porous graphene films from commercial polymers." Nature communications 5.1 (2014): 1-8." www.nature.com/articles/ncomm...
More papers on LIG: scholar.google.com/scholar?as...
0:00 Intro
0:48 Graphene
1:51 Laser Induced Graphene
3:07 Supercap structure
4:12 Expected voltage
4:36 Parallel plate capacitance vs Electrostatic double-layer
6:05 Stacking kapton to increase capacitance
7:04 Adding electrolyte and watching capacitance increase
7:37 Validating the capacitance meter
9:10 Low voltage, high-temperature heater setup 
Наука
I realized my explanation of how these work was vague and poorly worded, sorry! Graphene-based supercaps are a form of electrostatic double-layer capacitors (EDLCs). Charge is stored at the interface between the electrode and electrolyte via electrostatic attraction when charged. Due to the small charge separation EDLCs can charge and discharge very quickly, and the extreme surface area of graphene foam gives a large interface with the electrolyte to improve overall capacitance. That's why the "perimeter" of interdigitated electrodes is important, because more exposed perimeter == more interface opposing the other electrode to accumulate charge.
What goes into selection of optimal electrolyte? What gives kapton tape this property of UV -> graphene? Could you estimate your capacitance economy? Like capacitance per area, volume, dollar, time, etc?
Is this why you use an acid for the electrolyte rather than say an oil like in electrolytic caps? Because the electrolyte must be somewhat conductive?
One other point on you're value measurements... It is not uncommon for capacitors to be manufactured under "tolerance" of 20% or more, so the meter might not be as inaccurate as it looks.
@@donaldviszneki8251 well the tape is plastic made from hydrocarbons.
Laser burns it down to carbon.
Electrostatic? So it's charged by thunderstorms?
Your capacitance meter is likely more accurate than you realize; most commercial capacitors have a fairly wide tolerance from their stated value. Manufacturers data sheets should list the tolerance for each type the produce.
And the tolerance rating is often kind of 'skewed'. Something like +20/-10% of the nominal value is common.
I was hoping someone would mention this
Looked for this comment to upvote
Agreed. One of the caps he tested looked like it was rather old (the 5uF unit). First, if it actually was rated 5uF, it really is old, because anything made after say, 1975 would likely have been a 4.7uF, not a 5uF unit. Anyway, old electrolytic caps tend to become leaky, and leaky caps often read high on capacitance checkers, even though their true capacitance is falling.
+20/-10% is actually a tight tolerance. I have also seen +50/-20% tolerance in datasheets for electrollytics
Awesome project and quantum leap in production quality. Wow. I wish I had the skill / patience to actually setup shots 😬
He's the combination of you and Applied Science. Glad Ben shouted him out!
Stuff Made Here and Applied Science shoutouts?? Your channel is so underrated!
@@Gwallacec2 btw a quantum leap is extremely small. I mean I guess from the perspective of virtual particles it's extremely large, but a quantum leap is like between electron bands
Then again scale becomes a very strange thing to consider eventually so I'll stop there.
To be fair - wives are pretty wiley subjects. Difficult to capture on camera in their natural environment.
Just please don't you also start talking off to one side without anyone else there. It's really distracting because it's so very forced.
Man I am binging on your channel. This is some seriously awesome stuff!
Thanks! Remarkably, I've somehow never stumbled on your channel, starting to queue up videos now myself! :)
@@BreakingTaps I enjoy both of your channels
It would be amazing to see RUclipsrs start a license free movement, I was just watching one guy create spider silk using genetically modified yeast and released the gene sequences he developed under an MIT license. Absolutely amazing, his next step was to actually have the yeast absorb graphine and/or carbon nanotubes to bond them in the silk to make it stronger.
I agree! It's pretty amazing what some of the minds on YT are capable of :) IIRC that was Thought Emporium.... he does some really fantastic work. One of my goals is to help spread knowledge of these interesting papers that are just buried in archives. Would be neat to see what we could accomplish as a group on YT sharing and developing different techniques that would normally end up in a paper or patent.. There are other interesting developments too, like Joe Barnard (BPS.space) working on launching suborbital rockets, etc. I'm happy to see YT being more than _just_ entertainment.
there is a lot of exciting research done by private individuals. you don't have to be a mega corp to invent new tech
Yes, let’s start! Open source and iterative
Your point about reaching a level of technology in a society where we can do pretty serious testing and innovation in our garages with off-the-shelf components is spot on… This is the future I ordered! Liked and subscribed! 😎👍🏼
every school need to have machine shops and maker spaces and every community needs to have at least one guild hall of sorts where crafts men and women can ply there craft and find young apprentices to share there knowledge with.
absolutely, man, absolutely, i was thinking the same right now.
Welp, this is one of those treats of RUclips: An easy insta-subscribe with a new underappreciated channel.
I look forward to watching your channel eclipse 100k subscribers in the next 6 months.
Really good presentation on this... you talk so naturally with no hint of "I'm reading a script" and no "uuum" or "aah" either. Nice smooth editing too.
This capacitor seems like it could be useful as the flexure part of a homemade MEMS scale strain gauge, pressure or temperature sensor. Guys like me who are only hobbyists can't afford off the shelf devices just for the hell of it so making them is the only way to go. Lol
"There's only so much two dimensional space..."
In a room in the middle of a city, someone working on coastline lengths sighs in the dark.
imagine Ben from Applied Science, Stuff Made Here and Breaking Taps combine one day into one superhuman being, and make the world a perfect place
The other individual would be Todd O. from Project Farm channel -- excellent, realistic testing of stuff you use or need every day....!
They should collab with carykh and build a robot
and the thought emporium
Also;
- Steve Mould
- Mark Rober
- Veritasium
- The Action Lab
- Cody's Lab
- Project Farm
- NileRed
- Kyle Hill
- KYLE.ENGINEERS
- Engineering Explained
- Tom Stanton
- James Bruton
- Etc
The reason for the high values could also be leakage current. Especially on cheap meters, leaky caps can lead to much higher readings than the actual capacitance.
Cane here to say this.
Just found your channel today: love the videos, the level of detail, and pace. I'd been searching an Applied Science like channel and your's is a great addition to my subs. Thanks :)
This channel is one of my favorites actually, really awesome content. And that laser induced graphene are so versatile that a lot of technological applications can be made with that. Thanks to show us that amazing technique.
you should be trying to light at least a led, the experiment will bring " light " in this clip and make more visual for all on the channel ;)
yep, capacitance meters can show a completely irrelevant reading if you just connect a slightly weird resistor-like thing to it... because from the video, i remained unconvinced that the device can actually store some energy.
@@victortitov1740 it works... my group works on this and other things in the lab (a little fancier, granted, but the principle is the same).
That being said, I would have cycled it with a decent sourcemeter, then again, me, laser physicist lab, him, at home ... so.
@@randfee I am currently working on an electrostatic adhesion gripper. They require an input voltage between 1-6kV, so we need materials with high dielectric strength. At the moment we are ordering flexible PCBs with the interdigitated pattern and the space between the electrodes is limited by the dielectric strength of the adhesive. Would you be able to produce them with this method and what material would you use to cover the electrodes?
Just waiting for the youtube algorithm to bless this channel. Great work as usual, I'm using your metallic microlattice video for one of my projects right now.
Oh awesome, lemme know how it goes (or if you run into issues)! :)
@@BreakingTaps Played around with this graphene concept last weekend, turns out it works really great with the 10um co2 lasers, which is mighty convenient. Also turned much more black (vantablack?) than yours. Anyways, do you have a discord server or something? It would be neat to hang around, as I and a few friends are all doing similar stuff as you
@Wid Lay Awesome, glad to hear it! The first LIG papers were done on CO2 iirc, and there are some neat followup papers where they perform multiple passes to turn amorphous carbon into LIG (which isn't possible with shorter wavelengths like mine). Was used to make supercaps on coconuts and potatos as demonstrations :) I wonder if that's why yours was blacker? The literature shows that LIG is a big mess of graphene + amorphous carbon + fullerenes + tubes, so I wonder if the CO2 does a better job of converting some of the non-graphene into graphene? Dunno, but interesting result!
No discord at the moment, but I was just thinking it'd be fun to have a place to gather folks working on similar stuff. Lemme set one up and I'll give you a ping!
@@you2709 Made a discord! discord.gg/R45uCXcEv4 feel free to invite whomever :)
And man, I loved your explanation style. Please keep going.
Never seen this guy before, but I started watching and couldn't stop because it was such a good video.
Subbed.
A note on the capacitance meter: electrolytic caps tend to have a very generous tolerance range, skewed up, since for the most part they're used with rectifying circuits for their relatively high capacity. There's a possibility for the real capacitance value to be closer to the meter readings than to the value on the label.
Holy crap! Man, thank you so much for making this. I have been wanting to get into working with graphene and you inspired me. Thanks!
the second camera makes it seem like i'm watching a testimonial; it feels more personal if you talk to the camera you're looking at
Cheers for the feedback! I've heard similar from a few other folks... will try to tone it down in future videos! :)
I've seen this editing style on quite a few channels lately. I'm guessing there is some popular videography instructional video out there that was promoting it.
@@BreakingTaps second camera is a nice touch, you could always just turn towards it, would be nice if you wanna add some extra info or something, like an aside in theatre....or malcolm in the middle haha
or the tangent cam, for when you go to explain something that is a bit off topic or complementary, but please do keep looking at us. tv show style makes me want to switch channels...
Just your regular off the shelf 5W LASER!!! Yeah I can just walk into a supermarket to get one lol.
The video is stellar, good job!
If styropyro has taught me anything, you can probably find one on ebay, improperly listed with a lower power rating.
They're available as parts for laser cutters
The bed heaters on my 3D printers typically have kapton covering them. They also suffer from being inconsistent and take a long time to come up to temperature with DC power (less so with the AC bed heaters), with less heat near the outer edges. If the kapton covering them were the actual heat source then I imagine it would perform MUCH better. :)
I immediately thought about the same thing. Aluminum is often used to spread the heat from the wires of a heater. Lot of the heat is lost to the backside of the plate. So what if you had a glass bed, completely covered with kapton tape and a standard PEI sticker on top of that. Glass is more rigid than aluminium, has lower density, is a fairly poor conductor of heat and even cheap glass sheets are usually flatter than aluminum. So one can have a lighter, more rigid and flatter bed, reduce losses from the backside and get a more uniform heating. Manufacturing this should be very easy too. Just apply kapton tape to the glass, treat it with a laser, run two pieces of copper foil on the sides for power, then apply PEI sticker on top. Or, perhaps a magnetic sticker to enable the use of removable flex sheets.
@@anttiandreimann8456 you'd also have to figure out where to shove the sensor to feed data back to the controller, and hope your PID tuning algorithm works properly. That said, insulation layer, kapton, electrodes and thermistor, then print bed should work really well and keep the heat directed upwards.
@@anttiandreimann8456 You could make the bed heater using the printer itself. Just mount the laser to the print head and run it uniformly over the kapton.
@@AlexanderTzalumen to try it out crudely there's a simpler solution, since the resistance of the "heating mat" shouldn't vary too much with the temperature swings (at max up to ~100°C of swing from ambient, for general 3D printing with "normal" materials) you could even characterize it measuring the temperature with a thermocouple vs PWM percentage of current, and then control it just by using a look up table and not even need a PID controller, as a certain amount of PWM controlled current should provide the same temperature consistently. Although thermal imaging would be necessary to ensure the current is not traveling in just a straight line or area of the mat (think skin-effect) as opposed to through the whole mat, because PWM-ing creates a lot of high frequency harmonics which may (or may not) induce this effect. Might give this a try one day if I get myself a laser, hope someone beats me to it because it sounds promising IMHO
@@markopesevski perhaps, but the marlin firmware used in the majority of hobbiest and consumer 3d printers all use PID controllers for their heating elements, partially for the initial temperature ramp, and also for maintaining temp stability against the various sources of heat loss (radiant losses, ambient air currents, part cooling fans, moving build plate, etc). For a heated build plate, inconsistant temperature can lead to 1st layer delamination, which will cause the print to shift, warp, or fully detach.
Aw man these just keep getting better! Your production quality really shows, I can't imagine how much time must go into each of these shots. Keep up the great work! (Not to mention the great science you keep showcasing, I really like this series where you recreate scientific paper results)
Thanks, really appreciate it!
Fantastic. Please keep making these!
You did a great job on the video! Well put together and informative.
So great to see the recognition starting to happen for this channel - I keep trying to pump the views a little (I just love rewatching lasers blow polyimide into carbon foam).
I'm trying a repeat on this but using a second copper deposit layer for charge collector.
I am so glad this was recommended to me. Amazing content and setup!
This is the content that I was looking for. Keep it up.
I'm so glad I found your channel!!!!
Awesome Video, Keep up the Great work, love the videos, educational, and informative. Thanks for feeding the publics Intellectual curiosities.
You RoKK, excellent explanation and application of terminology! Thanks!
This was very cool. I can't wait to see your flux capacitor ;) Happy New Year and thanks for the video.
amazing production quality and science!
Awesome project, very good production quality and a perfect explanation.
Subscribed! 🤓
THANK YOU. Great content and production quality!!!
Material science + Manufacturing + home shop... Love it.
soooo glad i found this channel!
Good production quality on this one, and very interesting content! I like the background.
Thanks! I was hoping to do some chalkboard demos.. but it's not quite smooth enough yet, need to apply a few more layers and keep sanding 🙃
Beautiful explanations brother!
I wanna go to the kind of party where people demonstrate shit like this to each other. Party tricks where I'm from are usually something like someone opening a beer bottle with their eyebrow.
I know the feeling, I need more productivity and prosperity-minded friends.
I actually have a friendly competition where my friends and I compete to create the coolest mechanical thing based on a theme. At the end of every other month we get together and show it off. You should join us! 😂
@@grahamgrecian1332 oh wow, that's sick. How do you organize this?
@@woulg it's just a few other guys in the honor hall at my college. You should start one too! It's a lot of fun
@@grahamgrecian1332 nice! Will do, thanks
This is fantastic. I love your videos.
Bruh, this was an awesome explanation, I got most of what was explained. So facinating you made this with advanced homemade tools. I learned something today just as I got bored real happy about that.
You're my hero. Keep on the good work.
Perfect video
Thanks a lot
Your first video I watched as a random suggestion by RUclips but didn't skip a minute and am subscribing to your channel.
You are a blast to watch and listen to.
capacitance reading may be off in this case due to high leakage resistances, you need some type of rlc meter to determine simultaneously Parallel, series resistances AND capacitance. Parallel Resistance is responsible for leakage currents -determines self discharge speed actually, while series resistance is like a series connected resistor - limits the current and has other detrimental effects. But anyways with some clever experimentation I think you can figure out all of them. nice job.
Really cool stuff! Thanks!
This is awesome! Can't believe I didn't know about this before.
Great research and presentation! The applications for this technique are huge! I'm an electronics engineer. And I think there's a possible fault on the capacitance metering. Multimeters presume you are measuring a capacitor, but electrodes in a acid medium will make a resistor(or RCL equivalent circuit), also may be electro-chemical reactions going on. There is no insulation on your device and electrons are flowing between terminals. It will probably self discharge almost instantly. To measure a capacitor precisely you first need to charge it, disconnect from source, than connect it to a load. Integrate the power it produced and you will have the energy it is able to store.
Ah interesting, does that apply when using a dedicated "capacitance meter"? I had assumed/hoped it had internal circuitry to power the cap to some degree and test it's leakage or something? This is the device I have: www.newark.com/general-tools/cap1500/capacitance-meter-digital-200pf/dp/59P4162 I did find that it self-discharged very quickly just sitting on the bench, and made even worse when poking it with a multimeter :) I'll see about setting up some kind of circuit as you suggest to test it. Thanks for the help! Electronics is definitely not my forte, very much a newbie still :)
@@BreakingTaps Hard to tell what process it uses to measure. But I think you don't have a capacitor(yet). You need an insulating medium between electrodes. For example electrolytic capacitors use aluminum oxide. In a capacitor electrons can't flow between terminals, there should be an insulation, where an electric field will be created to store enery.
@Eduardo Schoenknecht So big grain of salt due to my general ignorance, but my understanding from the literature is that these types of supercaps operate a bit differently. When charged, a helmholtz double layer is formed symmetrically on the electrodes using the ions in the electrolyte (graphene + | - electrolyte + | - graphene), so there isn't actually a dielectric in play here. Just ions associating / disassociating with the graphene at the interface between liquid and solid.
In theory, based on my reading, but as I said I could have that incorrect :)
@@BreakingTaps you are right. And I don't have knowledge on super capacitors chemistry. But I think a special electrolyte is needed, regular diluted sulfuric acid will just conduct electricity.
Roger, thanks for the help! Will do some more reading on my end. I'm itching to see if I can scale this thing up, so might be able to make a more robust v2 at the same time :)
thats a great design i liked to see the design transform and it was a good product!
Another great video that’s approachable for home gamers! Thanks and keep it up!
excellent work and explanation !
This video is awesome, thanks for adding the comment with the actual "how it works" explanation!
Your doing great work and making awesome videos keep up the great work and keep on making awesome content!!
This is so cool. Great work
Good stuff dude, you don't try to spice up your videos, which I appreciate. just straight forward trial and error goodness.
Thanks for the information.
Yo dude, these videos are great. Keep it up
Thank you for what you're doing. You are one of the reason why I like RUclips
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Awesome video! Thx for explaining, i want to try it know 😄
Just subscribed. Love your work. Thank you.
That does it. I'm building my Pi/Arduino laser CNC. I just found this post and it seems like it exactly matches my interests. Manufacturing, electronics, programming and materials.
This is wild, I'm going to have to try it
I'm liking the new format. BTW video, as always, awesome .
Awesome, thanks for the feedback! ❤ I was more than a little nervous to switch things up, never sure how it'll go :)
Thank you, looking forward to more postings
Subscribed to the next big channel, 7.800 subscribers, I predict Q4 2021 to be at least 500.000!
Good luck!!!!
Great stuff, keep it coming!
I keep seeing all these hype videos about super tech this and super magic that, but until it can directly improve my life it's nothing more than vaporware.
pretty sure this is not a supercap from the values ive seen.
Amazing heater, really want to build one.
Just found your channel. Nice work fella!
Thank you for this channel. Truly. Also face reveal gang
Thanks! And yeah... figured it was about time I stop being lazy and film some talking head stuff :)
Great video, thank you!
Your video are really awesome❤ thx
Great stuff man, thanks for sharing. 👍🤘👍
those interdigit things are fascinating!
Subscribed! Very awesome, keep it up.
Very cool project, glad i found your vid. just bought a diode laser cutter and this looks like a good project to try out.
Very nice video! I can wait for your next one!
Well done. Amazing indeed!
Great stuff!
Laser printing capacitors. Dude well done. Thanks for sharing your work
It's cool to see kepton turn to graphene when hit with a laser ! Great footage :D
Thanks👍👍👍 it is amazing idea. I wish i could try it...
Just wanted to offer up a big *Thank You!*
For your hard work and effort, and for your desire to propagate knowledge which I feel is a noble cause, and can only make the world a better place! If only more people had that same desire, or even the desire to learn, frankly. It seems nobody wants to learn, they just want to *know* if that makes sense.
Incredibly impressive project! Now I want to go order a laser from my printer and make use of the big roll of Kapton I've got. =]
Great quality of shots, editing, and sound too. You put out a high quality video sir!
dude. my dude. keep it up. Watched a couple of your vids now, and I don't have a good reason to NOT subscribe. You do good work.
Great job 👏
Really cool! Some of my collaborators used LIG. We far preferred to use printed graphene produced by liquid exfoliation. :D
I wanna try making long capacitors and rolling them up in a case like an electrolytic capacitor is normally made in . cool idea great vid.
Awesome stuff. I had to pause the video half-way through to go and try kapton tape on my own laser cutter... Yep.. works like a charm. Fantastic. I can see that I'm going to have some fun with this. Cheers!!
Holy crap I'm 100% trying this after work
Underrated channel
Nice work.. TY
Seriously cool stuff. 😎
Very Cool, Thank you
Great stuff !....cheers.
I wonder if the graphene heater would work in a bimetallic-like bend actuator.
There's no reason why it shouldn't
You deserve more subscribers my guy