10 MORE THOUGHTS on the Peachtree GAN-1 ✍🏻 ('Dear John')
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
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Peachtree GAN-1 (US$2000)
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Развлечения
Hey John, it’s been a while but have to weigh in on this one. The PCM-PWM conversion technology has been around for some 20+ years now. I believe Tact and Sharp were early manufacturers on the scene with stereo amplifiers/integrated amplifiers, then Panasonic, Sony and JVC soon thereafter with multi-channel home theater receivers. There may have been others. I was an early adopter of this technology soon after realizing how clear and dynamic it sounded compared to very good analog systems I had at the time. That these solutions were much less expensive (except the Tact and maybe the Sharp) was a huge plus. At the time, I also found Tact room correction and digital crossover units to work very well with my three way, Apogee Mini-Grand speakers. I found the Panasonic units (SA- XR 45, 50, 55, 57, 70, 300 and SA-BX 500) to sound excellent and offer many features and options for bi-amping, tri-amping, channel time-delay, etc. to be very versatile when used with the digital outputs of the Tact digital preamps/room correction units. Later, NAD began manufacturing an M2 amplifier (2008?). At 250 WPC and $6000, It was much more powerful than predecessors. Later yet, 2009? NAD introduced the C390DD which had modular input card capability and might I say is still very fictional today with a BluOS card in it, giving it full digital streaming capability along with MQA. I have owned many of the Panasonic units, a Tact digital amp, both the NAD units mentioned and most recently two Technics SU-G700 units using a MiniDSP nano-digi digital crossover to route pcm digital signals to a three way system including Apogee Duetta Signatures and open baffle servo subs from GR-Research. With no analog in the signal chain and no passive components between amplifiers and speaker drivers, the sound is super holographic, dynamic, and distortion free. Anyone wanting the hear the fully digital difference on a budget should find themselves a used Panasonic SA-XR 70 or 57 on eBay and give it a try. I think you will not be disappointed!😊
The Tact Millennium was an amazing product at the time and I bet it still holds up..The GaN 1 DSP implementation is a little different but sonically the biggest difference would be the lack of global feedback combined with GaNFETs .
I will say, I appreciate that you don’t slag manufacturers for telling you no. They don’t owe you anything, especially free time with their product. That said, “It’d be a lot cooler if [they] did.”
Or he could buy one?
I have this node/Gan1 setup and find it to be exceptionally clear, clean and lively.
"Emotionally invested"?
Of course we're going to comment on equipment we own, John🙄
Can you let me know what speakers you have paired with your Gan 1?
Love the B&W speakers behind you. Hope to see a review of them soon.
What i really admire about your channel is that you make a huge effort to open the conversation about hifi rather than dig a trench and take a side. Long may it continue. Thank you
John, your honesty about what you do in these reviews, what you like in a product and in audio in general, and how you do these things is absolutely what keeps me coming back. Love it!
gan fets are the future. outstanding job mr. darko.
Hi John, just to clarify, yes you "do" get subwoofer out from an SHD Studio. You can map input 1, 2 to Out 1, 2 via Dirac stage. After that you can add high-pass and low-pass filters to the two channels and sum the low-pass output from 1 and 2 into Out 3 which then becomes your subwoofer output. I have a Minidsp Flex which is similar with an added DAC and analog outs. I do the same thing. I use Linkwitz-Riley filters, 24DB per octave slope for the High and Low pass filters. The Minidsp units are extremely flexible. You can even do two subwoofers outs if you do not sum.
I own the NAD Masters M33 with the Purify Eigentakt amplifier. I would be very interested in a comparison of this amps sound vs the GAN1.
Masterful as ever John, thanks for the infotainment. Can’t wait for the CD/amp reviews. Peace and believe etc.
Another interesting video John. You always give us something to think about. 🙂
well done! thanks for doing this
yes, me too. Really think these follow ups work very well indeed. They really supplement and reinforce the initial video piece. Great stuff.
interesting and informative as always! thank you john!
Great discussion. Love these Dear John videos.
Best video ever
More like this please
Thanks much, John, for introducing music and audio lovers about these new and interesting technologies. Great stuff as always! 🎵
Thanks again for the great content. IMO, the sound is the only thing that matters, whether analog, digital or something in between, doesn’t matter.
I just wanted to thank you for helping me learn about what audio quality is possible. I have returned to listening to music as a listening therapy.
I know I don't tell you this for the first time, John. I really like this relatively new format "10 more thoughts..."!
You need a rel subwoofer you could connected to any amplifier by using the high level cable!
another great vid.
your prob right with the tech GAN inside the peach tree being the future, but the peach tree GAN1 is a seperate unit. and i see future-fi as being all-in-one single box units.
GAN is the future. The way Peachtree put together this particular unit may not be, but the technology that powers it IS the future.
As a retired EE I can see this tech developing rapidly and eliminate traditional preamps and dacs. The bridge maybe uncomplicated, just a matter off time before you plug your streamer output or local network into a selection of great power amps or speakers. Traditional power amp manufacturers just adapt their existing products. I'm to invested now in the current architecture.
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I’m guessing you’re better at electronics.
This is a potentially disruptive design. It potentially reworks the electronics side of audio, displacing discrete DACs, preamps and amps.
And yes: I like your attitude in dealing with Hi-Fi gears. Thanks for your efforts, I do appreciate your stick-to-the-point words.
This was fun! 😂
Thank you!
Interesting and yet not shocking the people have opinions of things they never heard. For my part I don’t know until I hear.
A lot of people aren't ready for I am like this yet, But in time you will find them to be more and more popular
I am very into analog separates (with a dedicated dac), but I am still thoroughly intrigued by this offering. Just wish there were more dac/pre options with a stereo sub out to pair with this amp, but kudos to peachtree/bluesound for this unique offering.
Upgraded to Gan1 + Node from my 12 year old Inova. I think it sounds amazing paired with my GE Triton 2s. I am amazed at the sound.
Thanks John, very interesting discussion. By the way, I'm also going to Munich High End next month for the first time. Looking forward to it. If I am lucky enough to see you I'll say a quick hello.
I've got the exact same setup for my upstairs system paired with vanderstine 2ce speakers and a sub. It has been great and is such a clean setup. The eArc was critical for replacing my bulky and power hungry pioneer elite receiver.
Being able to easily play Tidal without the TV on was nice as well.
Thanks for another great video. Can you please help me understand the difference between this product and any other power amp connected to a Node? Keep up the great work.
I've run my TT through an ADC for years (lyngdorf - a powered DAC) and you can still hear a difference between the TT and my CD and a friend also confirmed the same .
Room correction is THE game changer in hifi (provided its done well).
Peachtree’s new slogan will be “a pragmatist’s approach to music” LOL. But I hear you and actually agree about the benefits of digitization, I think
Stereophile: The output-stage transistor in the SU-R1000 is a GaN FET; in the SU-G700M2, it's a MOSFET. (The G700M2 uses GaN FETs in its power supply circuit.) Please take a look at the AGD TEMPO De GaN for comparisons.
I have enjoyed the last two videos not because I will ever buy the amp, but because it is a new technology and implementation. Thanks. As for the Technics, I have never seen a bad review on it. Those who review it love it.
About the purist vs pragmatist topic: if being an “audiophile” means looking for the best sound possible, you can probably argue that the pragmatists digitalizing their signal for room EQ are more of an audiophile than the purists.
(And that’s coming from me: a purist)
I would LOVE to see your review of the technics sug700m2!!!!!!! Maybe I would give it a double-like... 🤔😃
And yes, four coffees are way to much! 😉
Hi John, I really wanted to like this amplifier for some of the reasons you mentioned. It offered a streamlined setup with the Node without being an integrated amplifier, no DAC to decide on, and plenty of juice as a power amplifier. However, l decided to return it because I couldn't get past the sound quality. I loved the detail and clarity, but it became too much of a good thing for me when I played it loud. I'm sure if I tried different speakers I could have found a better balance, but I didn't have time to play with pairings within the return timeframe. Thank you for your review, glad to hear another perspective on it.
That makes no sense. "too much of a good thing"? Too bright or what do you mean? :-)
Good video! Very informative, love it. Thank you. The future is here,
The quality of the streamer (or rather, its power supply) does matter for the DA conversion stage (jitter!). Is the GAN-1 more immune to this than 'regular' DAC's? Were you able to test this?
Great followup video John. I have been searching the threads for insight. Not sure what the stats are, but prefer to stream my music. It is good enough for me. I have several systems using the Nodi, so I like that. I want variety, so one system is Luxman L100/Thiels & Nodi, the other is Peachtree Nova or BC Acoustique for Legacy HD monitors. Outside is the XTZ A2-300 and the Nodi. So, I like this!
I heard everything you said in this vid but it was so hard to not get distracted by those speakers behind you.
In my opinion this was one of the more thought provoking Dear John videos. My knee jerk reaction to the review of the Peachtree was the same as to the Technics on another channel “yeah, no.” While I can’t see this product as a solution for me at this time, already invested in a nice DAC and Phono Preamp, I’m very curious to see/hear where the GaN tech leads to.
I’m fascinated about this method. It won’t float the boat of audiophile purists but for someone wanting a nice sounding simplified system having some amp juice behind it is an easy recommendation/step-up for those hoping for a no muss/no-fuss pragmatic choice.
Love these videos.. All the Grumphyphiles comming out :D i do belive they are even shorter than Michael :D
You could send a signal to a subwoofer with the minidsp too but you would of course need a dac but a cheap dac like a topping e30 or similar could be a fine solution
Exactly, miniDSP’s bread and butter is subwoofer integration! Studio as you says gives you ability to choose your DAC’s, or could go for the full width SHD that has DAC’s built in as well as digital out still for the GAN-1.
perfect for me this amp, i asked in a forum earlier this ear that i wanted a power amp with a dac, and no one could answer me.
but her we are :)
and for the minidsp shd studio subwoofer question: i can now use my minidsp straight into this amp instead of going thru a dac and then into a power amp and then into my passive subwoofer.
Peachtree GAN-1 is not full size hifi but i wish it was smaller, and i want to know if its noisy, hiss from the tweeter or eltrical noise from the unit itself, and how about some effiency graphs? icepower is leading in this regard so far.
im happy with my linn kairn and meridian 105/b monos ,sondek ,ive recently started streaming using just my phone ...whole new world lol and imo and all that...
OK, these GANFETs look great and according to some (and you) they sound very good. But how do they stack up against a price competitive class AB amp or integrated fed by an external DAC? The GANFET amp might not "technically" be a DAC, but it is acting as one if it takes a digital signal and outputs an analog one. With DACs we can upgrade if we want, but I assume can't "upgrade" this amp. It is a one and done solution, right? There's something to be said for that, sure. I guess my real question is simply how good is the D to A conversion in this thing? Good enough for grumpy old audiophiles?
I'm grumpy and I approve this message 😅
When comparing, you could have comparisons between SET amplifiers as it would be fair to compare zero-feedback designs. I think that the novel design here is that there is no analog signal or conversion to an analog signal AND no feedback circuits. What we hear from the speakers are the voltage and current changes from the GanFETs processing of the PWM generated from the digital source material (up to 24bit/192kHz in the Peachtree Gan1). From the Input through to the output stage, the signal is not converted to analog. Isn't that a trip?
To have this topology and to have it sound good wasn't achievable with silicon based MOSFETs.
I pretty much got what you meant in the first video John. The Peachtree is great for a minimalist system.Not bad for a boomer eh :)
The GaN 1 is really a compelling power amp since most of my sources start in the digital domain (HDMI, qobuz, Spotify), but was curious about the sound from my vinyl player. Thanks for answering my question!
Besides the Node, are there any other well rounded streamers with a sub-out and hdmi arc? I attended AXPONA this year and was pretty impressed with the Rose RS250.
I think the MiniDSP model SHP is the ticket. It does have subwoofer outputs, plus a whole lot more! ;-) Thanks!
Yes I agree. You can connect all your sources into it, have room correction and bass management, take a digital out to the Peachtree and an analogue out to the sub. It's also a Roon ready streamer. I have this device and it's superb, however, it's more than twice the price of the Node.
I have the Sabaj a30a amp ($500.) which has the same specs and I love it. I am thinking about the Peachtree for my main amp. Great review...thanks
Remindes me of the S-Master Pro series from Sony in the early 2003 Years. All digital until the Speakeroutput.
I get your point regarding using room correction with the Gan 1, as long as the room correction device keeps the signal in the digital domain. If you said that, my apologies.
Hi John, I do like the direction where this type amplifier goes, but just curious that, how good does this sound comparing to a dac-amplifier setup? For exxample, there's a test about the mojo2 with bluenode? how much is this better than that setup?
Thank you John I didn't fully appreciate that a DAC box could be admitted from a standard set up. Question if you wish to have an active system as I have how would the amps be controlled with the Node. You do your damdest and its appreciated. Love the room feel and complementary colours, I wonder did that have a feminine input😂. Look forward to the review on the B&W 703🎼🎵🎵
I found your Peachtree GAN-1 videos very very interesting and you will make me to try out connecting the coax out of my Primare SC15 (pre/streamer/dac) with my coax input of my Harman Cardon Citation (digital amp) !
I heard the, soon to be released, Cyrus Classic Streamer and the Cyrus Streamer XR a few days ago. The sound quality is streets ahead of the Node!
How about longevity? Will this be a product that lasts ten years or more like my integrated amplifiers?
Love the banter. Would you add a DAC to the Peachtree/Node combo and if so which one(s) would be on your list? Danke, JM
A separate DAC won't work with this peachtree. All digital amplifiers will digitize the signal again anyway so there's no point using a separate DAC. If you watch his first video on this product he mentions this.
Have you tried StarKrimson mono block? I have them and I llike how analog they sound. I am just wondering how this is compared to starkrimson.
Jon, this seems similar to the MHR inputs to Meridian Audio DSP Active Loudspeakers. For full disclosure, the digital coax input is limited to 24/192, is the GAN 1 limited to a resolution lower than 24/192 (like 24/96 for example) and is it capable of upsampling?
Triggering the grumps 😁
Hey John, provided that the powered subwoofer has speaker terminals such as the SVS Pro 1000, couldn't you just connect the subwoofer to the speaker terminals of the GAN-1?
Does anyone know if the node x has a delay on the analog in. ie your drop the needle on a record and it takes a couple of seconds to actually hear it. This is a problem sonos has.
I wonder how a ddc will improve the sound if at all with the Peachtree. Something like gustard ddc or denafrips ddc. Considering they are really some of the cleanest digital outputs out there.
There's a very simple way to get analog into the GaN-1. Van Alstine makes an A2D converter. 2 switchable RCA analog inputs and 1 digital output. Goes directly into the GaN-1. I feed both my ifi Pro iDSD and Peachtree PreDAC into the AVA A2D and then into the GaN-1. They sound excellent.
Just fired up my Gan-1 today with LS50 Meta, gonna need some breaking in...but sounds promising.
Cambridge turntable can also be connected to the Node via Bluetooth. Esthetically it goes very well with the Peachtree. I consider the Peachtree-Node combo as a very interesting take on the future even though I am still slightly uneasy about the digital volume control. I would personally combine this combo with a pair of 5040 Q Acoustics speakers on Iso-Acoustics feet plus a subwoofer of the same brand. This would give you a sleek, high tech and high end system that does not completely break the bank.
Hope you get to review either the technics 700mk2 or the 1000
Hi John I'd like to know what do you think about using the Ifi coaxial Spdf purifier 2 with Gan -1?
I have a Dirac Mini Dsp Studio. It has 4 chanels and you can use two for Stereo and two for the subs.
I do it in that way with one sub. The only thing you have to do (because the outputs are digital) is to convert the digital signal sub to analog.
Another great comments video. If we're looking for a digital do it all box (not that I am) may I nominate the ACRAM SA30. Hans B's review takes its cornucopia of digital capabilities to a PhD level. Go figure. And beyond streaming, it even has archaic analog inputs and MM&MC phono inputs.
Hello John, somebody may have pointed this out but the comment about the SHD was incorrect. In your picture, you showed the FLEX which is different from the SHD. The SHD has a balanced and unbalanced input for analog inputs as well as 2 balanced outputs and 4 unbalanced outputs that could be used for a sub or anything else. There are 2 coax stereo outputs 1,2 and 3,4 and can be configured independently from each other. 1&2 coax out to the Gan-1 and then 3&4 outputs out to subs. Hope this helps,
I mostly use vinyl records with solid state phono amp and zero feedback direct heated triodes amplifier. But this really looks like the way to go with full digital system. I don't like subwoofers, multi-amp and other unnecessary complications.
I think it would be helpful to compile a list of streamers/players (other than the Node) which actually have a variable digital output, as I don't think it's a very common feature. Far from it, in fact. But such products are obviously a prerequisite for the GAN-1.
This! Spent a lot of time searching for a Node alternative and really haven't found it yet.
@@zachfein5255 Bit late I know - but the new Wiim Ultra streamer has variable digital out 🙂
If you're using a REL subwoofer I would assume you could use the high level REL input cable attached to the the speaker outputs of the GAN1. In this case could use another streamer with coax out and no need for blue sound subwoofer output.
The Bluesound offers high and low pass filters which are very beneficial when matching smaller speakers to a subwoofer.
Still not available in Australia as far as I can see...
WHY DIDN'T I SEE THIS SOONER
Why does it seem that 90% of the folks that commented don’t get it?🧐
Hi John, the MiniDsp Studio has four channels output, one digital out for L+R and one digital out for 2 subwoofers. You only have to add two Dacs to it. You can add a better dac for L+R (or the Peachtree) and a cheaper one for Subs. You will have much more flexibility than with the Node!!!!!
Orchard Audio GanFet Mono and Stereo Starkrimson Amps. DIY kits also ... Check those out.
Unless you're truly running a turntable into an all-tube, all point-to-point wired preamp and poweramp, I don't think you can claim that you dislike "digital" sound. The number of chips and processing in our systems is pretty astounding these days
Well this format is a refreshing departure from your previous attitude to the commenting community, John.
For a while there comments were either turned off, or moderated by an anonymous third party:-/
I'd just add that one could still *worry* about the crappy PSU in the BS NODE. (Look up "bricked Node" )
Yes I'm "emotionally invested" 🙄 in this topic, since my Vault2 bricked recently. I had a horrible time with BS tech support!
Upgraded PSU units are available for the node models.
Good thing for when it happens to my replacement NODE.
Sorry to muddy the water with my own experience, but it's all I have
🎶😅🎶
PS
Doesn't a digital volume control reduce resolution?
Do you think the GaN 1 will pair well with the Buchardt S400 MKII? Sorry if I missed anything you might have said about them. Thanks for all you do.
I don't see why not. :-)
The SHD studio has multiple outputs, I run multi sub from there. The only downside is, you need an extra D/A converter for the subs (Which is no issue for me)
MiniDSP SHD is 4 channel and can be configured for subwoofers. Not the MiniDSP SHD Studio though.
I can't recall whether you pointed out that you need a source with volume control (like the Node) because the GaN 1 has none. If so, then never mind. :)
How does the Gan1 compare with the more powerful Gan400? They are not that far off on price now.
Am I right when I think, that some equipement, you and some commentators suggest in this video to be associated with the gan1 amp, would not work, as they do not have the required variable (!) coaxial digital volume output, which the BlueSound Node does have. And, by the way, will a digitally variable output still be bitperfect?
How on earth am I supposed to enable MQA external DAC on blue sound node with this setup ?
Yes you can run an analogue valve/tube preamp into a digital poweramp by first converting it with an ADC analogue to digital converter you just need to convert the analog signal into a square wave John how much does it cost you to rent in Portugal I was thinking about moving over there is it an apartment you got need two bedrooms really
John. Earlier in my audiophile journey I chased resolution. I wanted to hear the finger work on a guitar, or a cello player scratching her foot on the wooden floor. As I got more sophisticated my attention turned to qualities I believe you referred to as mellifluous. If this amp is mellifluous, it is something I would be interested in.
Hi, I'm missing one thing here. If the source is a digital signal it has its resolution. Regardless if it is 16 or 24 bit the loudest sound will come out at max digital value. I think most of as are using their amps with moderate sound levels (20% of amp max input) . To do so the digital signal should be also at 20 percent of the digital resolution. That leads me to my fundamental problem whit this approach, you lose resolution. Like with every digitally lowered volume, you scale down your max resolution.
I still get the urge to try mine with different streamers like Lumin