Hiiiiiiiiiiii!🏳️🌈 What's your favorite LGBTQ Muppet moment? (For some reason RUclips has been censoring the q-word in comments on my channel for over a year now so please know it's not me deleting your comments!)
Do you have any evidence of how jim henson would weigh in on the topic today? I know Walt Disney would likely be appalled because as wonderful as he was in many areas, he seems to have been pretty conservative minded, valuing the white, straight, middle class, suburban, nuclear family. Not sure about Henson though. Thoughts? (Also i'm not saying that we should ignore progress to religiously respect the creator's vision and ideals. I'm just curious where we think the muppets would be today if he were still with us)
the 2015 show where Kermit asks Bunsen and Beaker why they're wearing eachother's clothes and Bunsen tells Beaker "sshh, if it happens outside of work, it's none of their business"
@@chipkid there are so many that engage in incel screaming or flip flop sides. when ever I say something about "how can someone who likes women se the woman inside a person that looks like giga chad" then they go "some pass as cis women". and yet then they tell me a gigachad looking women should not raise eyebrows or make cis women uneasy when she goes to the woman's shelter or undress in the locker room. Oh and again always with the "unpack your bias" when it comes to sex. or how I should, if "I like men" date and have sex with a man that looks like Billie Piper. "because he is a man and I need to see him as a man because that is how it works" I have people tell me the neurology behind being trans. i have people tell me there is no neurology. I have people say we should be at a point in civilization where there is no differnce between the two, and yet it is very important that someone is trans I have people telling me I can be trans when i only fel 99.8% not woman, I have people tell me that is absurd and offensive. people say there is no oppression olympics but then there is there are trans people screaming that we call a sperm producing horse a "he", "male" and "stallion" and demand more inclusive biology lessons if gender is a social construct then does cis or trans really exist?.
As a straight male, I like Gonzo he is my favorite Muppet character. If Gonzo has taught me anything as a kid is too be whatever you want to be. “When I was a kid I saw you recite hamlet while jumping your motorbike through a flaming hoop, and it made me feel like I can do anything” -Walter, Muppets 2011
@@somerandomstranger783 neither, I'm saying on the whole he's weird and that's his character. He wants to be weird and goes against the norm, if it's normal he doesn't like to do it. That's literally his character in the original Muppet babies. My personal head cannon is that he's a non binary who goes by he/him and prefers chickens but it's a kid show so that's never been confirmed.
My completely straight son (he has been crushing on girls since he could walk) loved dressing in fairy princess costumes when he was a preschooler. He also preferred fluffy girls pajamas and liked glitter and sequins. I always let him wear whatever he wanted and it didn’t hurt him at all.
I didn't really see the Gonzorella episode as a story about gender identity. I think it was more about letting children play how they want regardless of gender norms. Like not all girls want to play with dolls or wear dresses and that's okay
yeah! i see it swim both ways. in boy thinking maybe he doesn't feel like he is 100% a boy OR a boy who simply likes dresses. And it's a kids' cartoon! I thinks kids will see it and go "oh, so Gonzo likes dresses so... that boys can wear them too! cool" not as much as kids understanding the whole thing (let's be honest, ost adults don't and that is ok as long as you are respectful and willing to learn), but accept it
That’s true there was really no clear explicit statement on any sort of identity. That’s completely a product of our political climate. My mom told me a story of how I was invited to a princess bday party, and everyone was wearing dresses, and I refused to put on the dress they wanted me to. The bday girl’s grandmother got really mad at me, but my mom stood up for me. To this day I still hate and would never wear any sort of princess style dress. Most anything with sequins is a no-go for me. But I do love really light simple sun/beach-type dresses. Additionally I went, and sometimes still go to the men’s section for many things. They just had actually appealing T-shirts. Shoes that fit my feet, and that I liked. We’re so threatened by the reason why a kid might want to, or not want to wear something, that we could easily leap to conclusions far beyond the truth, and make a child feel left out for no good reason. Interesting observation. Oh I also despised barbie and any other sort of dolls.
The Muppets were always open about pushing societies ideals whether that was with an "interracial" relationship between Kermit and Miss Piggy or with Gonzo being a whatever. The reason the Muppets persisted through the years is because they could bring a voice to topics that felt taboo and make it okay. The trans panic only shows that these pundits haven't really been paying attention or refuse to see the complicated issues these characters have always delicately handled. Thanks for what you do here at Dreamsounds. Always a great watch!
The episode was about non gender conformity gonzo loves the dress and wants to wear it instead of being a knight. The episode centers around how being different and trying different things everyone can have more fun. I also like how they addressed the episode very well thought out. I expect nothing less from Jim henson studios
as someone who was late to the muppets party (post socialism country, what you gonna do) i can tell muppets is one of the franchises that actually evolved. you can pick and thing and notice certain things specific for certain area and changes.
I don't know a lot about The Muppets, but if you're telling me that the only evidence of the show being progressive is that the pig and the frog fug, then you're reaching.
I love how fox says that "the left" is super sensitive and gets offended from everything but think a boy wearing a dress is child abuse and turns kids gay lmao
I never met a crossdresser that wasn't gay, and that didn't get their start from "playing with dolls" or "dress up". It's a weird phenomenon how kids that participated in cross gender activities turn out MORE to identify with that role of masculine or feminine 🤔🤣🤦
A reminder that they're ok with "crossdressing" in kids media if it's supposed to be a joke. So that's not the problem for them. It never was. Breaking gender rules is OK if it's framed as a joke, or shown as wrong for them.
@@griffinoleary1694 i mean polling shows homophobes and transphobes are way more hated than lgbt people lol at least in America and most of the developed world.
It’s funny how Fox makes fun of “the left” for being triggered and finding everything offensive, then proceeds to call the blue ailen wanting to wear clothes child abuse
ikr right, i will admit, im not a fan of woke, political correctness, and cancel culture and i think its tearing society apart, but i feel trying to censor a character coming out of the closet is even worse for a kid, and harms them because they feel they have to be a certain way, i think if they want to show a character coming out do it (so long as it does not ruin the story or continuity), just don't hammer it over the audience head, like how nickelodeon did
It's funny how the left loves to point out individuals from the right being offended like it's some game changing news while their entire community is literally flooded with people who are nothing but offended.
As a girl, it's no big deal if a girl wants to dress like a boy, in fact, it's even somewhat incorporated in women's fashion today. But when a boy wants to dress like a girl, he is faced with rude and cruel people. I don't understand, what's so different?
I read once an article, I can't really remember the name, but it was about how our society sees masculinity and femininity, because a masculine woman is powerful and some girl boss, but a guy being feminine is bad and weak, society sees femininity as a flaw, masculinity is the only way of power there seems to be, doesn't matter if you're a guy or a girl, being masculine will make people take you more seriously in some cases, it's not about boys, it's about femininity
I mean, even Candace Owens in the video where she talked about Gonzo was wearing a dress shirt and pants, which used to be clothes strictly meant for men. Its not about boys wearing girls clothes, its about boys being feminine. Femininity is seen as weak or worse. Thats also why they seem to only talk about trans women, while trans men are widely ignored.
well femininity has always been considered weak, and men have been told to grow into leaders, something that does not usually have time for "weak" things. the two just don't mix, and people don't want that to change. Unfortunately, it seems like it may be a while for that attitude to die down😕
I now want to heacanon Gonzo being raised by two moms to just further the gayness and spite the homophobes 😂. I mean fun fact it’s already implied that Gonzo might be adopted since in another episode we see a photograph where Gonzo’s grandparents are two humans
They want to call us snowflakes for calling them out for being flat out discriminatory, but they get their panties in a wad over a puppet wearing a dress and calling it preditorial, and straight up child abuse. 😐
I can see why their angry, personally I can see this kind of stuff impacting young kids views on gender. Making them think they should’ve been born female or male, this stuff can really impact children.
@@theerealaykay47 “Its ok to wear dresses even if you are a boy” its not “you should’ve been born a girl or a boy” Also even if later in life they identified themselves as trans or non-binary, thats a problem with you because? 🤨
My mom is a preschool teacher who's worked with the same age group that watches the Muppet Babies. There are certainly young preschool age children who are assigned male at birth who seek out 'female' dress-up like dresses and plastic tiaras. Sometimes, kids just like to experiment with toys that they were never exposed to before. My mom always said that a lot of boys will play with the Barbies out of curiosity, partially because they've never had Barbies in their household and they just want to see what they are. For some kids, they are just curious about girl toys because their parents never let them have them, and in preschool, there are both boy and girl toys out there. Parents, though, often get annoyed when they find out that their kids are playing with Barbies or dress-up at school. They want to police their kid's behavior even when they're not around. My mom though doesn't police their behavior and basically just lets any kid play with any toys. And that's how it should be. It's normal for kids to want to play with all kinds of toys, boy and girl, and to even dress-up in traditionally female or male dress-up. This could mean that these kids will one day identify as queer or non-binary, but that may not always be the case. Regardless, it is important to let kids experiment with different styles of clothing and 'girl' and 'boy' toys.
Once had a job doing demos of glitter temporary “tattoos” for kids. We offered them to all kids regardless of gender. Boys almost always wanted one but their parents often blocked them. One time a family came by with a 2 elementary shed girls and a preschool boy. The boy saw the girls putting their hands in the counter for tattoos and he put his too. His dad then said he couldn’t get one because they were for girls and the boy cried for the rest of the time. Made me so sad for the boy. Also seems like a stupid parenting decision. Toddlers can go into tantrum mode over anything and it’d stupid to risk provoking it over harmless things.
Yeah, I remember this one time my family and I were visiting some family friends (two parents and 3 boys) and I brought my American girl doll and some of her different outfits that I had. And let me just tell you, they were having a blast playing house with her and coming up with different combinations of outfits. When I asked my mom on the ride home why they were so excited with the doll (I have a younger a brother who would always play whatever with me so it did’t occur to me why the liked the doll so much) she said that the never had that experience and were curious.
Yeah, I went through something like that. I am a male and was assigned male at birth, but I always had an interest in my sister's frilly girly clothes. I used to wear them in secret and just see how I felt, I guess. But then as I grew up... I just... Stopped doing that cause I didn't care anymore. Wearing my sister's clothes didn't impact my gender identity in the future - I ended up being comfortable as a heterosexual man, and nowadays I just feel neutral about it. It was just a curiosity I had as a kid that faded as I grew to understand myself a bit more. If a person is a man, woman or a whatever, it doesn't matter what they do as a kid, really. They'll find out what and who they are naturally as they mature, and the least we can do is accept and respect them. And really, why should it even matter what others present as, anyways? Policing people's fashion and personalities is lame as hell
@@parasitecat3892 hell yeah. I want to see more cis and heterosexual people wearing clothes and doing things not typically associated with their AGAB. It's very cool to see people look fashionable and cool and happy.
Honestly yeah the moment I stopped caring about what my label or what gender norm I needed to follow was the moment I felt so much... freer? Better? It was a welcome feeling whatever it was Edit: trans and nonbinary rights btw
As a girl, i wanted to try a tuxedo on when I was 11, and people said I looked like a cute little business woman, but when one of my friends, who is male, wanted to wear a dress, he was ridiculed. It was horrifying to watch.
I wanted to wear suits when I was 11. It took me a little while to figure out that I was trans lol (I'm not insinuating that you are, I just had a similar experience)
Is like they can accept Gonzo dating a Chicken but can't accept him wearing a dress and being comfortable with himself wearing a dress. I'm happy Gonzo exists and that he brings comfort to many people, as Miss Piggy gives me comfort being the Plus Size diva that she is and helped me a lot about accepting my body. If shows like those help kids watching to be more open and respectable and be better people than their parents I'm happy it exists.
Probably because him dating a chicken was a dumb temporary joke while this is something that can change his character forever like why not do it to a new character?
@@hinamatsuro1908 I'm pretty sure this isn't Canon. Not that it truly matters, I mean we all go through clothing phases of sorts, I used to like wearing female Ballet costumes. Probably should've kept that factoid about myself to the grave but here we are.
@@hinamatsuro1908 I don't think you can call it a temporary joke when his girlfriend camilla the chicken has been with him thru every movie and show the muppets have done since the 90s lol.
For some of the audience having issues with a Muppet in a dress, employee abuse is simply the natural order of things and therefore not a contradiction or a misplaced priority. Even for those who would acknowledge it, many would probably rate what they perceive as child abuse through corporate propaganda as a worse evil, and that seems fair. Unfortunately their flawed assumptions (and lack of openness to correction) make these dangerously self-righteous positions to take, and ultimately at least as damaging as what they imagine they are fighting against.
I feel the exact same way you have people losing their mind over a fictional character yet completely ignore the serious problems like current work culture.
Little girls can dress up as a male Marvel superhero but the moment a little boy wants to dress up as a Disney princess, it's just not allowed? Society's a wonderful thing, isn't it?
i think it's because they think girls becoming more masculine is better because masculinity is superior over femininity. If it's a boy dressing up as a girl, they think the boy is giving up his duty to be a man, and be feminine, an inferior trait
@@st3ll497 but why is feminine seen as less than? why should girls be expected to be like boys? some girls like girly things and shouldnt be shamed for it. then you have those Feminazis pushing girls to be tough, cut their hair, be competitive, etc when you can be girly AND tough which they dont expect. theyre very controlling! policing, gatekeeping what ppl like
As a transwoman living full-time, I get lulled into thinking I'll be safe and won't get bashed ever again, and society has changed, and then I see things like this, and I'm like, "Oh, yeah..."
Excuse my name, But I'm about to start my counseling for transition to female. When I see something like this, the right's overreaction, it gets me worried.
@@mainstreetsaint36 Interestingly, although gender is obviously a part of it, transitioning is really about having the courage to just be yourself. Don't ever let anyone else tell you who you are.
@@jordanwljable Thanks. I reached a point where I could either commit suicide or live as myself. I decided to live, and my life is better than it ever was before.
One of the original writers, Muppets From Space, Joey Mazzarino, said how the ending was bastardized by the executives. Mazzarino explained that the aliens saw Gonzo on The Muppet Show, thought he was a supreme being, and were only making themselves to look like him. Then they reveal themselves to be hideous looking monsters. Gonzo then realizes that his true family has always been, and always will be, the Muppet gang. Mazzarino was _furious_ they got rid of this heartwarming ending with its vital message!
@@ironpulcinella3586 No, he wasn't that either? Don't you see‽ His species or how he met Kermit and the others isn't important! But if you insist on the actual origin story, I'll leave it in the comments above.
"It's clear that Gonzo doesn't have a father in the home to tell him 'Hey get that thing off! You look stupid! Get that thing off!'" To me, that's closer to child abuse than Muppets encouraging children to be themselves. Like, that's literally verbally assaulting your child. The logic is just non existent here. I didn't think that this level of hatefulness was even possible but here we are. I don't understand why some people won't let others be how they want to be.
Ah, yes. Because, according to this guy, the fatherly thing to do is to insult and embarrass your child into conforming to the nonsensical gender norms created in the past and that have been the root of many societal issues that have pushed society in a downward spiral of injustice and corruption. Because children aren't considered people that have personality interests and opinions in society. They are more like possessions of their parents. They aren't allowed to express themselves, so they'll end up bottling up all they're feelings and grow up bitter, misogynistic and continue the cycle.
To police a male child's ability to wear a dress is infinitely more abusive than showing a male character wearing a dress. Men can wear dresses. That's it. A reminder before you hit that 'Reply' button that a troll is almost never worth the emotional effort. Let rubbish be.
There was a tumblr or other post addressing this in a somewhat comedic fashion, I'm gunna paraphrase it a bit here. Person 1: "Biomechanically, pants are more suited to women, and skirts are more suited to men" Person 2: "The Scots were right all along!" Person 3: "actually the Scots wore kilts to hide more knives and other weapons on their person." Person 2: *"THE SCOTS WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!"*
Ah yes. A child being allowed to wear a dress on their own according to play pretend is abuse but screaming, berating and belittling them for their dress isn't.../s total fucking sense.
@@corvus5801 at this rate, Heaven would be worst then Hell because all the ones who fight people for such stupid things will all be in one pla... wait that actually sounds good.
It isn't even a transgender thing, it's addressing gender identity and labelling things as "male" and "female". The episode teaches boys that they can wear dresses and still be boys, and girls can do sports and still be girls. Honestly, it's a topic not talked about much in kids media. Crossdressing does not equal transgender.
There was a Rugrats episode in the 90s as well, but I don’t think it gained this much outrage. I think the internet wasn’t peddled “spread the outrage!” As it is now. Then again there was a time folks wanted to boycott SpongeBob because they saw Spongebob and Patrick as a same sex couple.
@@nenesaidwhatshesaid3151 does it affect you? I'm being serious, I don't see why it should matter to you what kids want to wear. Especially if its not even your kid, and just a fictional cg puppet, you know?
@@Hell_With_Perks A lot of things always start out small. They soon grow and become a societal topic/issue because they actually do end up affecting ppl cause we are all part of a society. Also, this whole "it doesn't affect you" idea is kind of ridiculous because if it's something as widespread as this of course I'm gonna care regardless. Also, there are a lot of things that don't affect other people so why should they care about those things. It honestly seem like y'all don't want ppl to care unless it's a positive reaction and I can understand why but still. If it doesn't affect certain ppl and they don't need to care then why does the community always need supporters and drag people for not supporting? Also, there are KINDERGARDEN teachers teachers who speak to these TINY children about sexuality/gender and all of that. They shouldn't do that. Also, even with this whole transgender thing. First people just wanted to be what they wanted to be without being harassed but now you have some trans women who are assaulting and violating women and children in their own spaces. PLUS there are some lgbt people who want to protect those people and hide them in an attempt to NOT look bad but it just makes the entire community look worse. Also we should be concerned about kids are wearing. If it's not something appropriate for them to be wearing then of course I'll care whether it's my child or not. However, folks have different ideas of what it appropriate. Also, there are some adults who are failing their jobs as parents by encouraging nonsense like this. You may think it's not nonsense but like I said, people have different ideas but sometimes there MUST be some kind of moral objective. Children are children. Parents need to do their jobs and let their children make those decisions when they get older. There have been a few stories of some parents pushing this nonsense onto their young children and that's just sick. There is plenty of fictional stuff that EVERYONE gets upset about so him being a fictional character doesn't matter. Lastly, with the things happening today a lot of people are within reason to be suspicious of anything lbgtq because the community doesn't have such a good reputation at the moment due to the loud minority of lgbt/lgbt ally SJW's.
The idea conservatives have of “bringing back manly Muppets” in the first place is already absurd. Putting aside the fact that Gonzo has been non-binary for decades, it’s not like other Muppets characters haven’t played with gender expectations before. Let’s not forget Kermit made his first appearance back when television was still black and white on a show called Sam and Friends, where he would often cross dress and lip-sync to songs sung by women. This happened so often that some people actually thought Kermit was a girl, meaning that at one point it was necessary to clarify in an interview that Kermit was indeed intended as a (usually) male character. There are so many excellent examples of Muppet cross dressing across decades of media, and the Muppet Wiki has an entire article dedicated to the subject (as well as an article about The Muppets in relation to LGBT culture) that are well worth checking out. All this to say... the Muppets have always played with the concept of gender, so trying to imply after the fact that the Muppets were ever an example of normative masculinity is completely ridiculous.
PLEASE watch the Matt Baume video about Richard Hunt; the gay man behind the muppets. who worked right alongside jim hensen throughout the entirety of the muppets. lgbtness (cant say the easier word on yt) has always been a part of the muppets and its story - and its characters. its baked into its DNA.
Being trans isn't a church, you can't be "converted" to it. You either understand and support it or you can identify it; maybe even both buts that's okay, we're all growing.
@@thesardonicrenegade the point is that you cant just "become not trans" you're always trans no matter what. that's why you cant convert these people. They can pretend they "converted" but they haven't. unlike the church, where they can convert a Muslim to a Christian.
@@thesardonicrenegade No, i have not. Your parents denying your transition isn't a valid source. I understand you're hurting inside because they didn't let you, but you have to let go.
The idea of transgender that most republicans don't understand is its not a choice, it's something that's always been there from birth; the only "change" is deciding to come out or not.
@@6-dpegasus425 Yes! And the guy who said it’s a disorder, like yes, BUT THE CURE IS TRANSITION. Seriously how dumb can you be when you can’t even accept science? Most of my best friends are trans or have questioned before, while I was born a female and I happily love that about myself, and I’ll never (maybe) understand what being transgender feels like, I accept it. And just saying this because it’s a common misconception, I’m a Christian who fully believes in the lgbtq+, and I also fully believe it’s the truth, however, I respect if others don’t as long as they don’t shame others, since it’s also science that shaming people for it hurts their mental health, I believe it.
if a little kid is watching muppets and sees gonzo wearing a dress, They might not want to wear a dress themselves, but if the had a friend who liked to wear dresses like gonzo, then maybe they won’t make fun of them anymore, and that can have a real impact. The show isn’t showing what “should” be done, it’s showing that what some people choose to do is completely normal, and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. That’s what’s important.
I'm nonbinary and tend to refer to myself as a "creature", so finding out that Gonzo was considered things like "whatever" or "thing" really resonate with me. Gonzo's just there! He's whatever! He's a fantastic fearless daredevil, with no need for gender
Right wingers: "WE WANT FREEDOM!" Also right wingers: "NO, NOT THAT KIND OF FREEDOM! YOU'RE DOING FREEDOM WRONG! NOW I HAVE TO OPPRESS YOU WHILE I TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH I CHERISH FREEDOM!"
@@64SMBZ Not to get political, but that guy is right, and if you actually listen, this whole political thing is a distraction. The republic always existed but not democracy, liberal, or any of that which explains why George Washington said having two sides will cause chaos and grant future presidents too much power in the future. I know you're going to call me a certain political name but you need to recheck your reality check and understand that the United States isn't what you think it is. Not even history itself was what you was told.
Ppl that got upset: THIS IS CHILD ABUSE Also those ppl: *emotionally and physically abuse their children just for not being the way they wanted to force their children to be*
Its really dumb. Why should you care about child safety if you dont even practice it? Plus hiding the fact we exist from kids is stupid, i didnt even know girls could like the same gender or that nonbinary people existed until i was like 10 and I realized my identity a that age. Eventually everyone will know what it is and those few people who feel that way will go, ‘oh this is me!’ And those that dont wont. Nobody is forcing kids to be that way, its just if they feel they do. Plus most kids dont even feel attraction at the ages these shows are meant for, its not corrupting them, its just normalizing lgbtq identities just like how cishet people have been forever Whats even funnier is most reasons these people have for lgbtq rep shouldnt be in shows targeted for younger kids IS EXACTLY how straight people have been shown in childrens cartoons for decades haha sorry for the long reply i needed to get this off my chest
Y'know, even if we pretend that it IS inherently weird for a boy to wear a dress, which it really isn't or shouldn't be anyway, it's literally just a piece of clothing... when has Gonzo of all characters ever been concerned with societal norms of any kind? Like, obviously the actual problem with the way these people talk about this is the impact it has on real LGBTQ+ people, not having bad takes on fictional characters, but that's been spoken about by others more eloquently than I could, so I'm going to point out that they also clearly don't understand much about the Muppets.
That's what I'm saying!!!! It seems like people who "criticize" these things don't really care about these works at all. They just care that they're being inclusive.
The way these people talk about kids' shows makes me sick. Reminds me of the people who lost their minds about She-Ra not being sexualised enough and being too 'boyish'
do noooooot remind me of that. people can have such startling reactions to things that really don't matter that much. the new design's great, and it's fitting for the characters to vaguely look kind of teenager-ish and child-ish because of the target demographic. I would've preferred a different art style, but I probably wouldn't have noticed the art quality as a kid, considering I watched the original She-Ra myself(spoilers: it doesn't look that great).
Here’s my strong reaction to that clip:oh dang! A kids show that actually lets the computer animate the fabric and the flimsy feathers on the mask. Most other 3d kids shows things like that would just be stiff and plastic but here, man I was just not expecting that, it hit me really hard! I generally don’t regard ‘cash cow characters but babies’ shows in any sort of quality, so they are doing something else very very right!
Gonzo literally just put on a dress- It teaches more to show kids that they don't have to be LGBTQ+ to stray from gender norms honestly. Kids feel like they have to be put in some sort of category for them to be able to be who they are when in reality anyone can be anything. LGBTQ+ or not. Just because you're feminine doesn't mean you're gay but just cuz you're masculine doesn't mean you're straight. I think this is a really good lesson for kids to learn and it's actually doing the opposite of pushing transitioning It's letting people know that anyone can be who they want to be regardless of gender It's not "pushing" anything
And furthermore it can even help kids who are scared to transition realize that they don't have to transition to be themselves. Not everyone wants to go through transitioning even if they feel disconnected from their gender so this helps people realize that maybe they don't have to physically transition if they're not comfortable with that and they can just be who they are because that's who they want to be.
Sometimes listening to these people blabbering about how they are being ''persecuted'' by *the gays* (or *the trans* in this instance) makes me realize how obsessed they are with these communities. They end up considering everything to be an affront to their values, as small as it may be. I still remember people complaining that a new lesbian character in a Disney movie would be the death of their children's innocence... it was a secondary character that said something in passing, not even the word 'lesbian'.
But you see back then it was played for mockery and a joke. When characters wear dresses without the need to trick anyone and are doing it for their own self-expression, THAT’S when it becomes an issue apparently
The "child abuse" argument makes zero sense to me. Wouldn't it be better for the child's development to have the freedom to explore and interact with the world to find their own interests and personality rather than have it thrust upon them simply because of their sex? Their biological sex is not something the child could choose at birth, but what they should be able to choose is their personality & behavior which includes gender. This doesn't mean feminity in men means the male is trans or a crossdresser or gay or any of that. It very well could and that's perfectly acceptable. It could also just be that the child finds something deemed feminine by society interesting and wants to further explore that. By utilizing Gonzo, a character who has always been built around the idea of being whoever & doing whatever makes himself feel good internally, the show found a way to simply suggest child exploration even if it's not within societal norms. Let the child be whoever they want to be. Simple as that
Growing up I was drawn to and identified with both Wacko from Animaniacs and Gonzo. Both are "whatevers" and decades later after consuming their media, I'm slowly realizing I'm a whatever too 💜
@@kaiyodei yes you're absolutely right. Non-binary people definitely need a wider representation than they have been. I'm a bit of a wacky person anyhow so Gonzo and Wakko are fine for me however I know not everyone is like me. Thankfully there are slowly more non-binary characters in shows. Now we just need to stop making them nonhuman entities (aliens, robots)
@@kaiyodei yes you're absolutely right. Non-binary people definitely need a wider representation than they have been. I'm a bit of a wacky person anyhow so Gonzo and Wakko are fine for me however I know not everyone is like me. Thankfully there are slowly more non-binary characters in shows. Now we just need to stop making them nonhuman entities (aliens, robots)
@@bunnykatzen it's just the "LOL OK,. but this character is silly" or "this character is a robot" or "this character is an extra tressteral" or "this character came from 300,000 years ago so..." is sometimes ok, except for when it's not. the same with anything. people tell me a trans woman can look like "giga chad" and then the others get mad when I use that as an example of why a cishet man might reject her by swiping left(and he shouldn't!) kind of deal.
As a nonbinary person with a Muppets Special Interest, Gonzo has been dear to my heart for years. When I first started expressing that I wasn't a woman nor a man, I used the term "whatever". I'd also like to add on that Dave Goelz is an ally to the queer community and has made a lot of his characters work as queer stand-ins (most recently Boober Fraggle on "Back to the Rock").
Gonzo is such an amazing character, he brings comfort to all who feel outside of the norm. He was so instrumental to me gaining confidence as a neurodivergent person who was often misunderstood, he shows us all that even if others don’t understand or might not even try to, that you should still love and accept yourself and have confidence in your own expression. While I cannot relate to him in my gender expression or my sexuality, he still taught me so much about myself 💕
Yes literally! Growing up watching the Muppet, and the anime Ouran High School Host Club, it always confused me when I could relate to these things characters say. Gonzo being a "whatever", Haruhi saying "I don't really care if people see me as a boy or a girl." Now, as an adult, I know why. I'm non-binary, but I don't really care what strangers will look at me and see. The people who matter to me know who and what I am, and that's all I need.
The reactions to this episode are sadly not surprising, but it's incredibly disturbing and disheartening that people genuinely think that a boy wearing a dress is akin to predatory behavior. I've always loved Gonzo. He's one of my favorite Muppets because of how much he embraces himself and has so much fun. I can definitely see how his Whatever identity would connect with a lot of people too. I always loved his "I'm Going Back There Someday" song. It has such a somber, yet hopeful message and that really appealed to me. Hearing your version was such a beautiful way to end the video too.
Gonzo has been romantically attracted to barn animals (especially chickens) since forever, but people don't have a problem with him until he wears a dress as a toddler.
You know as a feminine cisguy, I would have loved to have seen something such as this when I was a kid. It's not just LGBTQIA+ people who need this sort of thing.
I just find weird that for a boy to use a dress he needs to be lgbtq. Why a straight man cant use a dress? Romans used robes that were basically less chamative dresses. Scotish man uses kilts. Edit: For those who dont know, men just use pants regurlaly because of medieval era Europe. Knights ride horses, and riding with your nutsack in the saddle is reeealy uncorfortable. Because knights regurlaly used it on battle, pants became something that represent the high class and masculinity of men. And yes, pants were used before that (They didnt get as popular), but again, normally was because some survival problem like freezing cold. Pants werent made to be everyday clothing originally.
Yeah,like my dad told me that when he was younger,there used to be a guy who was riding around everywhere in a dress,and no one had a problem with that,anyone can wear a dress
Real though my husband likes wearing my dresses and skirts because they’re comfortable where especially in summer when it gets really hot okay and as long as he doesn’t go and ruin my dresses I don’t care now I’ve gone comments like oh my god obviously he’s gay like well he has complimented on Samuel L Jackson how he is one fine man who can argue with that Izzy not a fine man that people freaking overdresses needs to be left in the 2000 and tens how it should’ve been left in the 1990s
I agree. Gonzo’s character has always resonated with me. I’m cis, but I think it would be really uncharacteristic for him to have a cis human gender. I mean, come on. It’s Gonzo. Gonzo is just Gonzo, and he knows he’s Gonzo. That’s why we love him. 💙
But Gonzo ain't trans? Just because he crossdressed doesn't mean he wants to transition. Like how Bugs Bunny in the 60's has crossdressed many times. And Buggs is either bi, pan or straight due to Lola (and his joke of kissing everyone on the mouth)
jim henson always wanted the muppet show to have diversity and i think he would be proud of what they're doing now. remember, there will always be people who love and support you, as there always have been :)
The term "whatever" is dismissive: "whatever, let's move on" but in this way, the fact that gonzo is a whatever is active in a way like: "are you a boy or a girl?" "why does it matter?" and I think that's amazing
So, hi. Trans person who is also a massive Muppet fan here. I'm required by law to comment on this video, as well as this whole drama. And your video is amazing. So now the drama. Their complaining that "queer people are taking over children's TV" as a bad thing is kind of an odd thing in my mind, especially in regards to The Muppets. Apart from Sesame Street, Jim Henson never considered his creations as children's entertainment as an exclusive thing. Meanwhile, at the same time, some of Henson's other work like The Muppet Show always had queer coded character, either in the form of Gonzo, Miss Piggy, Bunsen and Beaker, Statler and Waldorf and Janice, or to a similar extent, Red and Mokey Fraggle on Fraggle Rock. Keep in mind how many times I dropped character names like Statler, Beaker and Janice, because this next part is important. The other thing is that Henson willingly hired gay performers at a time when it wasn't fashionable and could result in blacklisting. Folks like Richard Hunt, the performer of Beaker, Statler, Janice, Junior Gorg and tons of others. He was one of the many famous names we lost during the AIDS crisis. The Muppet Show, of course, allowed many performers, both closeted and not, to perform for a massive audience. Folks like Liberace, Elton John, Rudolph Neureav, Vincent Price. If there's any franchise that could have done gay/trans plots right, it really IS The Muppets. And the fact that they don't get that is extremely disturbing.
Hearing about this argument just makes me laugh and then get sad, because the actual episode is cute and wholesome and like any show for toddler’s and the lesson is really good and important and has been said before “ let people be themselves “so what’s the problem but then there are people who think it’s about the “trans agenda” and I don’t even know man, this world is crazy Also the show doing this is the muppets a show which has always been for diversity and growing as a society they may not always do it right ( working with autism speaks ) but at least they actually try
If this was the opposite like a girl dressing up as a prince or a knight everyone would been like oh she’s a strong and powerful woman she can wear whatever and be whoever she wants. but when it’s a guy who wants to dress up as a princess everybody suddenly gets super upset about it.
I’m not a muppet fan and I’ve never liked their design, but when I found this out I went to Disney plus just to find that chapter isn’t available in my country u.u but I’m still glad this chapter existed, as a nonbinary person I’m glad and I hope we have more representation in future media
Conservatives: "Boys shouldn't wear dresses" Liberal minded virtue signalling losers: "why?" Conservatives: "Because a boy's job is to grow up and become a man, and a man's job is to be masculine. If a boy finds it so hard to be masculine that they can't even dress properly, then they're just weak. A boy who cannot live up to the expectations of a man must be ashamed. It takes zero strength to dress properly, and yet these boys wanna throw a fit because they can't dress up like a femboy? The only people who are allowed to be feminine are the privileged who don't go through any problems in life, and just sit on their ass all day in the comfort of their own home, never having to worry about responsibility."
As an LGBTQ+ member with three transgender friends (one is questioning if they are trans or not,) I want you to know that… No you aren’t a “disorder,” you aren’t “crazy,” you aren’t “a choice,” and God does NOT hate you. Even if you aren’t trans, you are still valid. Ignore the haters. I and the entire LGBTQIA+ community love you for being yourself 💖
Ignore the haters, until they start organizing, engaging in acts of terror, and trying to pass legislation to suppress others. Then pay very close attention, organize, and get heavily involved in politics.
As a Gonzo fan, the negative reaction to this really got on my nerves! The idea of the character is that he's a Whatever. A guy that always does things differently from the norm. A person that no one understands, but his family accepts him anyway. Others consider an interpretive dance or a profound poem high art, he considers dancing in a giant bucket of oatmeal or wrestling a brick high art. Others would find a hot babe attractive, he finds poultry attractive. Others would call going on rides and seeing shows a good time at Walt Disney World, Gonzo would rather cuddle with his girlfriend in one of the laundry mats or look in trash cans. Heck! There's even a comic of Gonzo passing by a men's and a women's restroom so he could go to the whatever's restroom. Before you say a franchise is going "woke", make sure you actually know about it first.
@@Kitty-the-Bunny I think this makes Camilla the Sailor Neptune to Gonzo's Sailor Uranus (who also btw had/has cannon controversy about being binary interestingly enough...)
This is actually Franziska von Karma from Ace Attorney- she's a lawyer, not a magical girl. ^^' But I DO love magical girls and also I think I have an AU to make now because who says she can't be both?
I just find it highly irritating when people say that homosexuality shouldn't be pushed upon children because it might corrupt or make then homosexual. I think its an educational moment that can raise questions for younger audiences. Like for example: the episode of Arthur where were they find out Mr.Ratburn is gay.
I’m a big Muppets fan and you really did an amazing job on this video! Gonzo wearing a dress really shouldn’t be shocking to any fan. Gonzo has always struggled with their place in the world and really removed all boundaries in hopes that one day that place would be found. Really great work here!
I am honestly bewildered how ridiculous this "trans panic" thing is. Society is unfortunately affected by so many bad stereotypes from looks, to skin color to heck, how you dress. I was once ridiculed by a homophobic women who thought because I had short hair, I was automatically a lesbian, which isn't the case. It hurt and angered me to know such garbage claims are placed onto LGBTQ+ people or anyone who is deemed to "look" like a homosexual or anything deemed as "abnormal" by society. Stay strong because indeed, life is about evolving and society simply needs to catch up.
I’m offended that people are getting offended by this. These people need to stop living in the past and let there be new positive Things that we can learn with our emotions. Pretty much here’s a message to these people. You may say your own beliefs but we have the right to open up and express our feelings!
So because you're offended at people getting offended at this, you get to say that they shouldn't get offended by this, argo telling people to stop telling people what to do
Don’t let the stupid ass media and ppl make u feel unwelcome, they don’t know any better and sadly they prolly never will, I just want u to know u wonderful and if I could I’d give u hug rn❤️
People like Candace Owens don't represent a majority. They represent a minority of people who are so insecure, ignorant, and bigoted that the have to bully the people around them into conforming to a set of expectations that aren't reasonable or coherent. Don't let the Candace Owenses of the world win by keeping you from seeing how many people will accept and value you for who you are.
This was great, I love Gonzo getting the recognition he deserves and being an important icon and reference for all us little Gonzos out there. Thank you for this.
Kermit sang a song about rainbows and taught kid me the importance of connections, and even though the song didn't have anything to do with sexuality, it indirectly showed me that my connections with people can be with anybody and who I am is "something that I'm supposed to be" And now I find out that Gonzo isn't constricted by society's views of him or whatever he may be, cause he's a whatever, an artist, and a little weirdo, and I wouldn't want him any other way. And I wouldn't want to be any less than Odd
i think a lot abt my mom sending me an article talking about this and how excited she was, even moreso when i was happy she showed me. it was really sweet. stuff like this can be so so helpful to trans kids and to parents of said kids who genuinely want to try and help them and show them that their experiences are normal. (not the same situation for me because i’m 21, but still)
Gonzo is one of those characters that almost any societal misfit can relate to. I love Gonzo because he made weird normal to me. I’ve always tried to embrace my weirdness, because if a whatever can date a chicken, shoot themselves from cannons, teach a block of cheese how to salsa, and sing introspective, meaningful songs about not fitting in yet. I can be my weird theater kid self too! Gender is a label like any other. Labels can be changed, replaced over time, or gotten rid of all together. Gonzo can be whatever Gonzo wants to be. That’s what it means when he says he’s a Whatever. And you know what, I’m a whatever too.
Considering this is the guy who ate a TIRE to flight of the bumblebees.........this is not that weird. Also I think this would have been perfect for a skit in the original Muppet show
"It's child abuse." No, it's teaching your child that LGBTQ+ is okay! And it's great, because gonzo is lots of kids favorite character! and it teaches kids that this is normal. You don't want your child when they are older to find a early Trans kid and make fun of them. If you think that making fun of a lgbtq+ is okay then that's literally bullshit.
Now I'm thoroughly convinced that people don't have actual problems in their life if they get so concerned about a Muppet, who just happens to be male, wears a dress.
There was a time not that long ago when women weren't supposed to wear pants. Clothes are pieces of fabric you wear on your body, why should it have anything to do with gender? Let people wear what they want, it's not that deep.
I mean, I always found it a little unfair that there are tons of opportunities where the girl main character wants to be a knight, or wants to go on adventures, or do masculine things, and that's okay. But the second a guy wants to wear a dress or anything like that, it's inappropriate.
I just want to say that Gonzo's outfits where always so pleasant to see, he has been an inspiration to me since childhood wearing clothes with all kinds of patterns and high waisted pants, it's a thing not everyone would wear because of the fear of been seen as a weirdo, so him confidently wearing a dress melted my heart.
Hiiiiiiiiiiii!🏳️🌈 What's your favorite LGBTQ Muppet moment? (For some reason RUclips has been censoring the q-word in comments on my channel for over a year now so please know it's not me deleting your comments!)
I absolutely love the "whatever" bathroom comic, the simplicity of it makes me really happy.
Do you have any evidence of how jim henson would weigh in on the topic today? I know Walt Disney would likely be appalled because as wonderful as he was in many areas, he seems to have been pretty conservative minded, valuing the white, straight, middle class, suburban, nuclear family. Not sure about Henson though. Thoughts? (Also i'm not saying that we should ignore progress to religiously respect the creator's vision and ideals. I'm just curious where we think the muppets would be today if he were still with us)
the 2015 show where Kermit asks Bunsen and Beaker why they're wearing eachother's clothes and Bunsen tells Beaker "sshh, if it happens outside of work, it's none of their business"
I've had that too, sometimes they turn up later. It's *interesting* that we can't talk about ourselves because of how the cis/hets use the word.
Beefcake unless they are tho
Are we gonna ignore the fact that cartoon characters like Bugs Bunny were crossdressing WAY before Gonzo?
for deception and to dick around with other characters, playing dress up to be silly
@@kaiyodei You can't tell me he didn't rock those dresses though.
@@anib8863 oh yeah. I guess. I'm not really a dress person
@@kaiyodei do you support trans people tho
@@chipkid there are so many that engage in incel screaming or flip flop sides. when ever I say something about "how can someone who likes women se the woman inside a person that looks like giga chad" then they go "some pass as cis women". and yet then they tell me a gigachad looking women should not raise eyebrows or make cis women uneasy when she goes to the woman's shelter or undress in the locker room. Oh and again always with the "unpack your bias" when it comes to sex. or how I should, if "I like men" date and have sex with a man that looks like Billie Piper. "because he is a man and I need to see him as a man because that is how it works"
I have people tell me the neurology behind being trans. i have people tell me there is no neurology. I have people say we should be at a point in civilization where there is no differnce between the two, and yet it is very important that someone is trans
I have people telling me I can be trans when i only fel 99.8% not woman, I have people tell me that is absurd and offensive.
people say there is no oppression olympics but then there is
there are trans people screaming that we call a sperm producing horse a "he", "male" and "stallion" and demand more inclusive biology lessons
if gender is a social construct then does cis or trans really exist?.
As a straight male, I like Gonzo he is my favorite Muppet character. If Gonzo has taught me anything as a kid is too be whatever you want to be.
“When I was a kid I saw you recite hamlet while jumping your motorbike through a flaming hoop, and it made me feel like I can do anything” -Walter, Muppets 2011
That's basically why he usually refers to himself as a whatever, he's whatever he wants to be and what he wants to be is weird.
I love that movie!
@@weegarI can’t tell if you think gonzo is weird for not being a female or male, or you’re saying that it’s okay to be different.
Please clarify.
@@somerandomstranger783 neither, I'm saying on the whole he's weird and that's his character. He wants to be weird and goes against the norm, if it's normal he doesn't like to do it. That's literally his character in the original Muppet babies. My personal head cannon is that he's a non binary who goes by he/him and prefers chickens but it's a kid show so that's never been confirmed.
@@weegar Oh, okay. Thank you for confirming
My completely straight son (he has been crushing on girls since he could walk) loved dressing in fairy princess costumes when he was a preschooler. He also preferred fluffy girls pajamas and liked glitter and sequins. I always let him wear whatever he wanted and it didn’t hurt him at all.
you're a good parent
Here lies some good parenting
exactly, and u are a great parent for that. let kids express themself!
Based and redpilled parenting, based indeed
I have stumbled upon a good parent, have a cookie. 🍪
I didn't really see the Gonzorella episode as a story about gender identity. I think it was more about letting children play how they want regardless of gender norms. Like not all girls want to play with dolls or wear dresses and that's okay
yeah! i see it swim both ways. in boy thinking maybe he doesn't feel like he is 100% a boy OR a boy who simply likes dresses. And it's a kids' cartoon! I thinks kids will see it and go "oh, so Gonzo likes dresses so... that boys can wear them too! cool" not as much as kids understanding the whole thing (let's be honest, ost adults don't and that is ok as long as you are respectful and willing to learn), but accept it
Same
maybe not the episode, but it does seem like the character has a lot to do with gender regardless of that episode :)
That’s true there was really no clear explicit statement on any sort of identity. That’s completely a product of our political climate. My mom told me a story of how I was invited to a princess bday party, and everyone was wearing dresses, and I refused to put on the dress they wanted me to. The bday girl’s grandmother got really mad at me, but my mom stood up for me. To this day I still hate and would never wear any sort of princess style dress. Most anything with sequins is a no-go for me. But I do love really light simple sun/beach-type dresses.
Additionally I went, and sometimes still go to the men’s section for many things. They just had actually appealing T-shirts. Shoes that fit my feet, and that I liked. We’re so threatened by the reason why a kid might want to, or not want to wear something, that we could easily leap to conclusions far beyond the truth, and make a child feel left out for no good reason. Interesting observation.
Oh I also despised barbie and any other sort of dolls.
Same!
The Muppets were always open about pushing societies ideals whether that was with an "interracial" relationship between Kermit and Miss Piggy or with Gonzo being a whatever. The reason the Muppets persisted through the years is because they could bring a voice to topics that felt taboo and make it okay. The trans panic only shows that these pundits haven't really been paying attention or refuse to see the complicated issues these characters have always delicately handled. Thanks for what you do here at Dreamsounds. Always a great watch!
YESSSS! THIS!!
Also, Richard Hunt, who performed Beaker and Scooter as well as countless others, was gay.
The episode was about non gender conformity gonzo loves the dress and wants to wear it instead of being a knight. The episode centers around how being different and trying different things everyone can have more fun. I also like how they addressed the episode very well thought out. I expect nothing less from Jim henson studios
as someone who was late to the muppets party (post socialism country, what you gonna do) i can tell muppets is one of the franchises that actually evolved. you can pick and thing and notice certain things specific for certain area and changes.
I don't know a lot about The Muppets, but if you're telling me that the only evidence of the show being progressive is that the pig and the frog fug, then you're reaching.
I love how fox says that "the left" is super sensitive and gets offended from everything but think a boy wearing a dress is child abuse and turns kids gay lmao
don't forget how the right wing is feuding with big bird now too lmao.
@@m0xl3y89 wait what lmao
@@Cinnamatime yep, big bird promoted vaccines and now the right wing (mainly ted cruz) are attacking him.
@@m0xl3y89 lmao over a vaccine to protect you from a virus and they're mad about it?
I never met a crossdresser that wasn't gay, and that didn't get their start from "playing with dolls" or "dress up".
It's a weird phenomenon how kids that participated in cross gender activities turn out MORE to identify with that role of masculine or feminine 🤔🤣🤦
A reminder that they're ok with "crossdressing" in kids media if it's supposed to be a joke. So that's not the problem for them. It never was.
Breaking gender rules is OK if it's framed as a joke, or shown as wrong for them.
Right no one is mad when Bugs Bunny does it.
@@Jynxxy13ravedoll
Homophobes are dumb
that's because you are a joke. You are a joke to society.
@@griffinoleary1694 lgbt after someone doesnt think babies shouldnt know about lgbtq
@@griffinoleary1694 i mean polling shows homophobes and transphobes are way more hated than lgbt people lol at least in America and most of the developed world.
It’s funny how Fox makes fun of “the left” for being triggered and finding everything offensive, then proceeds to call the blue ailen wanting to wear clothes child abuse
Yeah, it's so stupid. Idk why it's even an argument in the first place, it's literally a fictional character lol
ikr right, i will admit, im not a fan of woke, political correctness, and cancel culture and i think its tearing society apart, but i feel trying to censor a character coming out of the closet is even worse for a kid, and harms them because they feel they have to be a certain way, i think if they want to show a character coming out do it (so long as it does not ruin the story or continuity), just don't hammer it over the audience head, like how nickelodeon did
@@alphayun7401 Yeah this is why I'm a centrist. As both sides are ridiculously hypocritical.
Dear god
It's funny how the left loves to point out individuals from the right being offended like it's some game changing news while their entire community is literally flooded with people who are nothing but offended.
As a girl, it's no big deal if a girl wants to dress like a boy, in fact, it's even somewhat incorporated in women's fashion today. But when a boy wants to dress like a girl, he is faced with rude and cruel people. I don't understand, what's so different?
exactly, i dont understand why we all just cant accept eachother for who we are or how we like to express ourselves :(
I read once an article, I can't really remember the name, but it was about how our society sees masculinity and femininity, because a masculine woman is powerful and some girl boss, but a guy being feminine is bad and weak, society sees femininity as a flaw, masculinity is the only way of power there seems to be, doesn't matter if you're a guy or a girl, being masculine will make people take you more seriously in some cases, it's not about boys, it's about femininity
I mean, even Candace Owens in the video where she talked about Gonzo was wearing a dress shirt and pants, which used to be clothes strictly meant for men. Its not about boys wearing girls clothes, its about boys being feminine. Femininity is seen as weak or worse. Thats also why they seem to only talk about trans women, while trans men are widely ignored.
well femininity has always been considered weak, and men have been told to grow into leaders, something that does not usually have time for "weak" things. the two just don't mix, and people don't want that to change. Unfortunately, it seems like it may be a while for that attitude to die down😕
@@igmoreno3579 i do agree about the boys, of that being weak and bad and i doesn't matter when they whore pink shirt or tax
"It's clear Gonzo doesn't have a father in the home." Almost killed me. We're speculating on the home lives of puppets now.
@Lana Augustine Oh it was? Well that's nice he wasn't being serious then. It is pretty funny to hear.
@Lana Augustine Yeah, op should of included the full clip
I now want to heacanon Gonzo being raised by two moms to just further the gayness and spite the homophobes 😂. I mean fun fact it’s already implied that Gonzo might be adopted since in another episode we see a photograph where Gonzo’s grandparents are two humans
For real he does have a father is the person who sticks his hand up his butt
I have a dad and I’m non-binary but my dad is a redditor so what’s the difference
I didn’t think “Let Gonzo wear a dress” would be the hill I die on but here we are.
At least it's a fancy ball gown. It could have been a plain French villager girl's dress.
Take my hand friend; it's dangerous to go alone.
Sad honestly
"Freedom of dress is the right of all sentient beings."
- Optimus Prime.
@@mainstreetsaint36 can't deny he wouldn't look good in it though
They want to call us snowflakes for calling them out for being flat out discriminatory, but they get their panties in a wad over a puppet wearing a dress and calling it preditorial, and straight up child abuse. 😐
Okay
@miles gwatidzo Thank u 4 understAnding of the argument!! Much appreciated🤗
I can see why their angry, personally I can see this kind of stuff impacting young kids views on gender. Making them think they should’ve been born female or male, this stuff can really impact children.
That's cuz it is
@@theerealaykay47 “Its ok to wear dresses even if you are a boy” its not “you should’ve been born a girl or a boy”
Also even if later in life they identified themselves as trans or non-binary, thats a problem with you because? 🤨
My mom is a preschool teacher who's worked with the same age group that watches the Muppet Babies. There are certainly young preschool age children who are assigned male at birth who seek out 'female' dress-up like dresses and plastic tiaras. Sometimes, kids just like to experiment with toys that they were never exposed to before. My mom always said that a lot of boys will play with the Barbies out of curiosity, partially because they've never had Barbies in their household and they just want to see what they are. For some kids, they are just curious about girl toys because their parents never let them have them, and in preschool, there are both boy and girl toys out there. Parents, though, often get annoyed when they find out that their kids are playing with Barbies or dress-up at school. They want to police their kid's behavior even when they're not around. My mom though doesn't police their behavior and basically just lets any kid play with any toys. And that's how it should be. It's normal for kids to want to play with all kinds of toys, boy and girl, and to even dress-up in traditionally female or male dress-up. This could mean that these kids will one day identify as queer or non-binary, but that may not always be the case. Regardless, it is important to let kids experiment with different styles of clothing and 'girl' and 'boy' toys.
Once had a job doing demos of glitter temporary “tattoos” for kids. We offered them to all kids regardless of gender. Boys almost always wanted one but their parents often blocked them. One time a family came by with a 2 elementary shed girls and a preschool boy. The boy saw the girls putting their hands in the counter for tattoos and he put his too. His dad then said he couldn’t get one because they were for girls and the boy cried for the rest of the time. Made me so sad for the boy. Also seems like a stupid parenting decision. Toddlers can go into tantrum mode over anything and it’d stupid to risk provoking it over harmless things.
@@LemonDove it's glitter oh my god, are shiny things only reserved for girls 😭
Yeah, I remember this one time my family and I were visiting some family friends (two parents and 3 boys) and I brought my American girl doll and some of her different outfits that I had. And let me just tell you, they were having a blast playing house with her and coming up with different combinations of outfits. When I asked my mom on the ride home why they were so excited with the doll (I have a younger a brother who would always play whatever with me so it did’t occur to me why the liked the doll so much) she said that the never had that experience and were curious.
Yeah, I went through something like that. I am a male and was assigned male at birth, but I always had an interest in my sister's frilly girly clothes. I used to wear them in secret and just see how I felt, I guess. But then as I grew up... I just... Stopped doing that cause I didn't care anymore. Wearing my sister's clothes didn't impact my gender identity in the future - I ended up being comfortable as a heterosexual man, and nowadays I just feel neutral about it. It was just a curiosity I had as a kid that faded as I grew to understand myself a bit more.
If a person is a man, woman or a whatever, it doesn't matter what they do as a kid, really. They'll find out what and who they are naturally as they mature, and the least we can do is accept and respect them. And really, why should it even matter what others present as, anyways? Policing people's fashion and personalities is lame as hell
@@parasitecat3892 hell yeah. I want to see more cis and heterosexual people wearing clothes and doing things not typically associated with their AGAB. It's very cool to see people look fashionable and cool and happy.
For years, I've not really known how to express my gender as anything but a "Whatever," inspired by Gonzo. It feels freeing to be a "Whatever."
That’s lovely😊
I'm so happy for you man that's amazing
More like a free to be a doesnt matter.
Honestly yeah the moment I stopped caring about what my label or what gender norm I needed to follow was the moment I felt so much... freer? Better? It was a welcome feeling whatever it was
Edit: trans and nonbinary rights btw
*tearful hugging sounds* Being a whatever is pretty great.
As a girl, i wanted to try a tuxedo on when I was 11, and people said I looked like a cute little business woman, but when one of my friends, who is male, wanted to wear a dress, he was ridiculed. It was horrifying to watch.
It's really sad how males aren't allowed to wear dresses.
@@KyleEvra I totally agree
I wanted to wear suits when I was 11. It took me a little while to figure out that I was trans lol (I'm not insinuating that you are, I just had a similar experience)
Is like they can accept Gonzo dating a Chicken but can't accept him wearing a dress and being comfortable with himself wearing a dress.
I'm happy Gonzo exists and that he brings comfort to many people, as Miss Piggy gives me comfort being the Plus Size diva that she is and helped me a lot about accepting my body.
If shows like those help kids watching to be more open and respectable and be better people than their parents I'm happy it exists.
Probably because him dating a chicken was a dumb temporary joke while this is something that can change his character forever like why not do it to a new character?
@@hinamatsuro1908 I'm pretty sure this isn't Canon. Not that it truly matters, I mean we all go through clothing phases of sorts, I used to like wearing female Ballet costumes. Probably should've kept that factoid about myself to the grave but here we are.
@@hinamatsuro1908 I don't think you can call it a temporary joke when his girlfriend camilla the chicken has been with him thru every movie and show the muppets have done since the 90s lol.
@@hinamatsuro1908
Gonzo has been non-binary for decades what are you talking about.
@@mangoshake3837 Fact checking and paying attention is hard, okay?!
All the things Disney does as a corporation overall like the treatment of employees and they're upset about a Muppet in a dress. Priorities people.
For some of the audience having issues with a Muppet in a dress, employee abuse is simply the natural order of things and therefore not a contradiction or a misplaced priority. Even for those who would acknowledge it, many would probably rate what they perceive as child abuse through corporate propaganda as a worse evil, and that seems fair. Unfortunately their flawed assumptions (and lack of openness to correction) make these dangerously self-righteous positions to take, and ultimately at least as damaging as what they imagine they are fighting against.
@@JosephDavies good point. I hadn't thought of that. 🙂
I feel the exact same way you have people losing their mind over a fictional character yet completely ignore the serious problems like current work culture.
Isn't that comparing oranges with apples?
It's called a distraction
Little girls can dress up as a male Marvel superhero but the moment a little boy wants to dress up as a Disney princess, it's just not allowed?
Society's a wonderful thing, isn't it?
It’s seen as empowering for girls to like superheroes and sports etc but these feminazis want girls to all be like that
i think it's because they think girls becoming more masculine is better because masculinity is superior over femininity. If it's a boy dressing up as a girl, they think the boy is giving up his duty to be a man, and be feminine, an inferior trait
@@st3ll497 but why is feminine seen as less than? why should girls be expected to be like boys? some girls like girly things and shouldnt be shamed for it. then you have those Feminazis pushing girls to be tough, cut their hair, be competitive, etc when you can be girly AND tough which they dont expect. theyre very controlling! policing, gatekeeping what ppl like
It's really fucked up.
That boys aren't allowed to like feminine clothing and feminine things.
I really hate this Homophobic and Transphobic society.
Dang it, it says there's 4 comments but I can't see them :/
As a transwoman living full-time, I get lulled into thinking I'll be safe and won't get bashed ever again, and society has changed, and then I see things like this, and I'm like, "Oh, yeah..."
Excuse my name, But I'm about to start my counseling for transition to female. When I see something like this, the right's overreaction, it gets me worried.
@@mainstreetsaint36 Interestingly, although gender is obviously a part of it, transitioning is really about having the courage to just be yourself. Don't ever let anyone else tell you who you are.
I'm happy that you're living full time.
@@jordanwljable Thanks. I reached a point where I could either commit suicide or live as myself. I decided to live, and my life is better than it ever was before.
same, as a trans masculine :/
One of the original writers, Muppets From Space, Joey Mazzarino, said how the ending was bastardized by the executives. Mazzarino explained that the aliens saw Gonzo on The Muppet Show, thought he was a supreme being, and were only making themselves to look like him. Then they reveal themselves to be hideous looking monsters. Gonzo then realizes that his true family has always been, and always will be, the Muppet gang.
Mazzarino was _furious_ they got rid of this heartwarming ending with its vital message!
yeah that is totally an allegory for being trans gender in the dating world
@@kaiyodei I think the message was supposed to be something like this ruclips.net/video/M99KfhNV6to/видео.html but sure.
@@kaiyodei Gonzo was never a trans thingy.
He was an adopted immigrant.....
But sure
@@ironpulcinella3586 we're in an age where if someone's head canon states somehting, we listen to them and not the creators
@@ironpulcinella3586 No, he wasn't that either? Don't you see‽ His species or how he met Kermit and the others isn't important! But if you insist on the actual origin story, I'll leave it in the comments above.
"It's clear that Gonzo doesn't have a father in the home to tell him 'Hey get that thing off! You look stupid! Get that thing off!'"
To me, that's closer to child abuse than Muppets encouraging children to be themselves. Like, that's literally verbally assaulting your child. The logic is just non existent here. I didn't think that this level of hatefulness was even possible but here we are. I don't understand why some people won't let others be how they want to be.
Ah, yes. Because, according to this guy, the fatherly thing to do is to insult and embarrass your child into conforming to the nonsensical gender norms created in the past and that have been the root of many societal issues that have pushed society in a downward spiral of injustice and corruption.
Because children aren't considered people that have personality interests and opinions in society. They are more like possessions of their parents. They aren't allowed to express themselves, so they'll end up bottling up all they're feelings and grow up bitter, misogynistic and continue the cycle.
Well said
That’s already abuse?
To police a male child's ability to wear a dress is infinitely more abusive than showing a male character wearing a dress. Men can wear dresses. That's it.
A reminder before you hit that 'Reply' button that a troll is almost never worth the emotional effort. Let rubbish be.
There was a tumblr or other post addressing this in a somewhat comedic fashion, I'm gunna paraphrase it a bit here.
Person 1: "Biomechanically, pants are more suited to women, and skirts are more suited to men"
Person 2: "The Scots were right all along!"
Person 3: "actually the Scots wore kilts to hide more knives and other weapons on their person."
Person 2: *"THE SCOTS WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!"*
But also Gonzo isn't even male or female, just Gonzo
@@Gloomdrake ALSO this!
Yes they can. But should they?
@@laobok if they want to
Ah yes. A child being allowed to wear a dress on their own according to play pretend is abuse but screaming, berating and belittling them for their dress isn't.../s total fucking sense.
Guess we're going to hell for thinking that it's ok and the people harassing and threatening the people that don't are going to heaven!
@@corvus5801 at this rate, Heaven would be worst then Hell because all the ones who fight people for such stupid things will all be in one pla... wait that actually sounds good.
@@cameoshadowness7757 Hell's better, Lil Nas X confirmed 💀
@Rynno read again lol, it's a joke. I'm making fun of the people in the video
Bold of you to assume that I'm Christian as well
to me it isnt.
It isn't even a transgender thing, it's addressing gender identity and labelling things as "male" and "female". The episode teaches boys that they can wear dresses and still be boys, and girls can do sports and still be girls. Honestly, it's a topic not talked about much in kids media. Crossdressing does not equal transgender.
There was a Rugrats episode in the 90s as well, but I don’t think it gained this much outrage. I think the internet wasn’t peddled “spread the outrage!” As it is now. Then again there was a time folks wanted to boycott SpongeBob because they saw Spongebob and Patrick as a same sex couple.
But boys shouldn't be wearing dresses either so...
@@nenesaidwhatshesaid3151 but why not?
@@nenesaidwhatshesaid3151 does it affect you? I'm being serious, I don't see why it should matter to you what kids want to wear. Especially if its not even your kid, and just a fictional cg puppet, you know?
@@Hell_With_Perks A lot of things always start out small. They soon grow and become a societal topic/issue because they actually do end up affecting ppl cause we are all part of a society. Also, this whole "it doesn't affect you" idea is kind of ridiculous because if it's something as widespread as this of course I'm gonna care regardless. Also, there are a lot of things that don't affect other people so why should they care about those things. It honestly seem like y'all don't want ppl to care unless it's a positive reaction and I can understand why but still. If it doesn't affect certain ppl and they don't need to care then why does the community always need supporters and drag people for not supporting? Also, there are KINDERGARDEN teachers teachers who speak to these TINY children about sexuality/gender and all of that. They shouldn't do that. Also, even with this whole transgender thing. First people just wanted to be what they wanted to be without being harassed but now you have some trans women who are assaulting and violating women and children in their own spaces. PLUS there are some lgbt people who want to protect those people and hide them in an attempt to NOT look bad but it just makes the entire community look worse. Also we should be concerned about kids are wearing. If it's not something appropriate for them to be wearing then of course I'll care whether it's my child or not. However, folks have different ideas of what it appropriate. Also, there are some adults who are failing their jobs as parents by encouraging nonsense like this. You may think it's not nonsense but like I said, people have different ideas but sometimes there MUST be some kind of moral objective. Children are children. Parents need to do their jobs and let their children make those decisions when they get older. There have been a few stories of some parents pushing this nonsense onto their young children and that's just sick. There is plenty of fictional stuff that EVERYONE gets upset about so him being a fictional character doesn't matter. Lastly, with the things happening today a lot of people are within reason to be suspicious of anything lbgtq because the community doesn't have such a good reputation at the moment due to the loud minority of lgbt/lgbt ally SJW's.
The idea conservatives have of “bringing back manly Muppets” in the first place is already absurd. Putting aside the fact that Gonzo has been non-binary for decades, it’s not like other Muppets characters haven’t played with gender expectations before. Let’s not forget Kermit made his first appearance back when television was still black and white on a show called Sam and Friends, where he would often cross dress and lip-sync to songs sung by women. This happened so often that some people actually thought Kermit was a girl, meaning that at one point it was necessary to clarify in an interview that Kermit was indeed intended as a (usually) male character. There are so many excellent examples of Muppet cross dressing across decades of media, and the Muppet Wiki has an entire article dedicated to the subject (as well as an article about The Muppets in relation to LGBT culture) that are well worth checking out. All this to say... the Muppets have always played with the concept of gender, so trying to imply after the fact that the Muppets were ever an example of normative masculinity is completely ridiculous.
The only manly muppet is Walter.
@@adamunown A muppet of a man.
good to see another fan of muppet lore
PLEASE watch the Matt Baume video about Richard Hunt; the gay man behind the muppets. who worked right alongside jim hensen throughout the entirety of the muppets. lgbtness (cant say the easier word on yt) has always been a part of the muppets and its story - and its characters. its baked into its DNA.
@@adamunown I see you are a man of culture as well.
And yet Bugs Bunny has been doing this for decades and still a war hero
Bugs bunny do this for 80 years
Yes but he is doing for the funny
@@GeorgeSupremu Tom and Jerry and Daffy Duck did that too
Only because that was a joke
@@fatherpucci8170 Yes but it wasn't this weird
Being trans isn't a church, you can't be "converted" to it. You either understand and support it or you can identify it; maybe even both buts that's okay, we're all growing.
yeah wrong, wrong on all levels. Never heard of the people forced to transition?
@@thesardonicrenegade the point is that you cant just "become not trans" you're always trans no matter what. that's why you cant convert these people. They can pretend they "converted" but they haven't. unlike the church, where they can convert a Muslim to a Christian.
@@thesardonicrenegade No, i have not. Your parents denying your transition isn't a valid source. I understand you're hurting inside because they didn't let you, but you have to let go.
@@gayahhbihh you think I would willingly turn myself into a freak? Funniest thing I've ever heard
@@thesardonicrenegade denial will get you nowhere.
Its okay, just let it all out.
The complainers act like Gonzo has never worn a dress on Muppet Babies before.
like most things they dont care about the facts, they only care about what they can spin to get their fans riled up about.
The idea of transgender that most republicans don't understand is its not a choice, it's something that's always been there from birth; the only "change" is deciding to come out or not.
@@6-dpegasus425 Yes! And the guy who said it’s a disorder, like yes, BUT THE CURE IS TRANSITION. Seriously how dumb can you be when you can’t even accept science? Most of my best friends are trans or have questioned before, while I was born a female and I happily love that about myself, and I’ll never (maybe) understand what being transgender feels like, I accept it. And just saying this because it’s a common misconception, I’m a Christian who fully believes in the lgbtq+, and I also fully believe it’s the truth, however, I respect if others don’t as long as they don’t shame others, since it’s also science that shaming people for it hurts their mental health, I believe it.
black
@@thesardonicrenegade what
if a little kid is watching muppets and sees gonzo wearing a dress, They might not want to wear a dress themselves, but if the had a friend who liked to wear dresses like gonzo, then maybe they won’t make fun of them anymore, and that can have a real impact. The show isn’t showing what “should” be done, it’s showing that what some people choose to do is completely normal, and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. That’s what’s important.
You deserve mire likes sir.
This.
I'm nonbinary and tend to refer to myself as a "creature", so finding out that Gonzo was considered things like "whatever" or "thing" really resonate with me. Gonzo's just there! He's whatever! He's a fantastic fearless daredevil, with no need for gender
Only in your own mind. Non-binary is a social construct.
@@drganknstein There's lots of things that are! Neat stuff we come up with, huh
@@drganknstein Fun fact: the words you use are a social construct. Your point?
@@drganknstein and so is man and woman! gah its almost like were on the same wavelength or sumn! anyways smell ya later fellow featherless biped
I can't 100% understand this reply section it seems very hostile but at the same time friendly
Right wingers: "WE WANT FREEDOM!"
Also right wingers: "NO, NOT THAT KIND OF FREEDOM! YOU'RE DOING FREEDOM WRONG! NOW I HAVE TO OPPRESS YOU WHILE I TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH I CHERISH FREEDOM!"
Sounds like the lefts
@@PsychoChuckGreene Sounds like you need a reality check.
@@64SMBZ I think the human race need to Reality and Jesus at this point.
@@64SMBZ Not to get political, but that guy is right, and if you actually listen, this whole political thing is a distraction. The republic always existed but not democracy, liberal, or any of that which explains why George Washington said having two sides will cause chaos and grant future presidents too much power in the future. I know you're going to call me a certain political name but you need to recheck your reality check and understand that the United States isn't what you think it is. Not even history itself was what you was told.
so true
Ppl that got upset: THIS IS CHILD ABUSE
Also those ppl: *emotionally and physically abuse their children just for not being the way they wanted to force their children to be*
Ikr? People just love shit to try getting mad at
Its really dumb. Why should you care about child safety if you dont even practice it? Plus hiding the fact we exist from kids is stupid, i didnt even know girls could like the same gender or that nonbinary people existed until i was like 10 and I realized my identity a that age. Eventually everyone will know what it is and those few people who feel that way will go, ‘oh this is me!’ And those that dont wont. Nobody is forcing kids to be that way, its just if they feel they do.
Plus most kids dont even feel attraction at the ages these shows are meant for, its not corrupting them, its just normalizing lgbtq identities just like how cishet people have been forever
Whats even funnier is most reasons these people have for lgbtq rep shouldnt be in shows targeted for younger kids IS EXACTLY how straight people have been shown in childrens cartoons for decades
haha sorry for the long reply i needed to get this off my chest
me: (cough cough) my parents (cough cough)
Look at me. I am the child abuse now!
a kids show… about being friends…. and being nice to people…. shows a lesson about being nice to people??? HOW DARE THEY
I read this again in the oblivion guard voice after seeing your pfp and name :)
Y'know, even if we pretend that it IS inherently weird for a boy to wear a dress, which it really isn't or shouldn't be anyway, it's literally just a piece of clothing... when has Gonzo of all characters ever been concerned with societal norms of any kind?
Like, obviously the actual problem with the way these people talk about this is the impact it has on real LGBTQ+ people, not having bad takes on fictional characters, but that's been spoken about by others more eloquently than I could, so I'm going to point out that they also clearly don't understand much about the Muppets.
I couldn't have said it better myself! You are absolutely right! 👏
I really like the idea of Gonzo's true identity which gives other transgender people the idea of being themselves.
That's what I'm saying!!!!
It seems like people who "criticize" these things don't really care about these works at all. They just care that they're being inclusive.
Your logic is very out of place, but frankly, I expected that.
@@3rdtimesthecharm376 ???
The way these people talk about kids' shows makes me sick. Reminds me of the people who lost their minds about She-Ra not being sexualised enough and being too 'boyish'
do noooooot remind me of that. people can have such startling reactions to things that really don't matter that much. the new design's great, and it's fitting for the characters to vaguely look kind of teenager-ish and child-ish because of the target demographic. I would've preferred a different art style, but I probably wouldn't have noticed the art quality as a kid, considering I watched the original She-Ra myself(spoilers: it doesn't look that great).
Here’s my strong reaction to that clip:oh dang! A kids show that actually lets the computer animate the fabric and the flimsy feathers on the mask. Most other 3d kids shows things like that would just be stiff and plastic but here, man I was just not expecting that, it hit me really hard! I generally don’t regard ‘cash cow characters but babies’ shows in any sort of quality, so they are doing something else very very right!
God, you made me remember Nostalgia Critic's review of Sailor Moon.
@@aeroblu2002 oh dear god no
Ewww
Gonzo literally just put on a dress- It teaches more to show kids that they don't have to be LGBTQ+ to stray from gender norms honestly. Kids feel like they have to be put in some sort of category for them to be able to be who they are when in reality anyone can be anything. LGBTQ+ or not. Just because you're feminine doesn't mean you're gay but just cuz you're masculine doesn't mean you're straight. I think this is a really good lesson for kids to learn and it's actually doing the opposite of pushing transitioning It's letting people know that anyone can be who they want to be regardless of gender It's not "pushing" anything
And furthermore it can even help kids who are scared to transition realize that they don't have to transition to be themselves. Not everyone wants to go through transitioning even if they feel disconnected from their gender so this helps people realize that maybe they don't have to physically transition if they're not comfortable with that and they can just be who they are because that's who they want to be.
@@ellietheunicorn7706 Exactly ❤❤❤❤🙂🙂🙂🙂
@@ellietheunicorn7706 Thank You ❤❤❤❤🙂🙂🙂🙂
yes. Agreed! No need to be part of LGBTQ+ just because a boy dresses up like a girl, and vice versa. Be whatever you like.
Sometimes listening to these people blabbering about how they are being ''persecuted'' by *the gays* (or *the trans* in this instance) makes me realize how obsessed they are with these communities. They end up considering everything to be an affront to their values, as small as it may be.
I still remember people complaining that a new lesbian character in a Disney movie would be the death of their children's innocence... it was a secondary character that said something in passing, not even the word 'lesbian'.
Well, after all, their haters are their biggest fans.
"Persecuted"
Let me say this, no one, and I mean NO ONE thinks about gay s*x more than homophobes
Yeah, I remember my mum being shocked in the cinema when the purple cyclops lady from onward mentioned her girlfriend. Like, Christ, calm down.
@@SirFigBar EXACTLY!! Even if it’s gay kids in a show they will still talk about it. And still have the balls to call us predators
But y’know, the conservatives have no problem with Bugs Bunny wearing dresses hundreds of times back in the ‘50s…
And he kissed Elmer Fudd a few times I believe.
But you see back then it was played for mockery and a joke. When characters wear dresses without the need to trick anyone and are doing it for their own self-expression, THAT’S when it becomes an issue apparently
@@terrizoop3739 Doesn't help the fact that in newer shows Bugs stated he specifically likes the feel of dress disguises
Don't forget Mickey Mouse himself dressed as Minnie a few times too!
The "child abuse" argument makes zero sense to me. Wouldn't it be better for the child's development to have the freedom to explore and interact with the world to find their own interests and personality rather than have it thrust upon them simply because of their sex? Their biological sex is not something the child could choose at birth, but what they should be able to choose is their personality & behavior which includes gender. This doesn't mean feminity in men means the male is trans or a crossdresser or gay or any of that. It very well could and that's perfectly acceptable. It could also just be that the child finds something deemed feminine by society interesting and wants to further explore that. By utilizing Gonzo, a character who has always been built around the idea of being whoever & doing whatever makes himself feel good internally, the show found a way to simply suggest child exploration even if it's not within societal norms. Let the child be whoever they want to be. Simple as that
I'm very happy for Gonzo because he was being himself.
he isnt trans and thats important. boys can wear dresses.
Growing up I was drawn to and identified with both Wacko from Animaniacs and Gonzo. Both are "whatevers" and decades later after consuming their media, I'm slowly realizing I'm a whatever too 💜
but he to, is more silly out of the 3,(if i can recall) ones. won't it be better to have a serious "whatever"
@@kaiyodei yes you're absolutely right. Non-binary people definitely need a wider representation than they have been.
I'm a bit of a wacky person anyhow so Gonzo and Wakko are fine for me however I know not everyone is like me. Thankfully there are slowly more non-binary characters in shows. Now we just need to stop making them nonhuman entities (aliens, robots)
@@kaiyodei yes you're absolutely right. Non-binary people definitely need a wider representation than they have been.
I'm a bit of a wacky person anyhow so Gonzo and Wakko are fine for me however I know not everyone is like me. Thankfully there are slowly more non-binary characters in shows. Now we just need to stop making them nonhuman entities (aliens, robots)
@@bunnykatzen it's just the "LOL OK,. but this character is silly" or "this character is a robot" or "this character is an extra tressteral" or "this character came from 300,000 years ago so..." is sometimes ok, except for when it's not. the same with anything. people tell me a trans woman can look like "giga chad" and then the others get mad when I use that as an example of why a cishet man might reject her by swiping left(and he shouldn't!) kind of deal.
@@bunnykatzen Raine from the owl house is non-binary!!
As a nonbinary person with a Muppets Special Interest, Gonzo has been dear to my heart for years. When I first started expressing that I wasn't a woman nor a man, I used the term "whatever". I'd also like to add on that Dave Goelz is an ally to the queer community and has made a lot of his characters work as queer stand-ins (most recently Boober Fraggle on "Back to the Rock").
Gonzo is such an amazing character, he brings comfort to all who feel outside of the norm. He was so instrumental to me gaining confidence as a neurodivergent person who was often misunderstood, he shows us all that even if others don’t understand or might not even try to, that you should still love and accept yourself and have confidence in your own expression. While I cannot relate to him in my gender expression or my sexuality, he still taught me so much about myself 💕
Never thought i’d see three fully grown adults sit down at a table and film themselves screeching about a character wearing a dress.
content like this isn’t teaching children to be gay or “converting” them, it’s teaching them to be accepting.
Yes literally! Growing up watching the Muppet, and the anime Ouran High School Host Club, it always confused me when I could relate to these things characters say. Gonzo being a "whatever", Haruhi saying "I don't really care if people see me as a boy or a girl."
Now, as an adult, I know why. I'm non-binary, but I don't really care what strangers will look at me and see. The people who matter to me know who and what I am, and that's all I need.
Ouran High School Host Club is one of the best!
I LOVE Host Club!!!!
The reactions to this episode are sadly not surprising, but it's incredibly disturbing and disheartening that people genuinely think that a boy wearing a dress is akin to predatory behavior. I've always loved Gonzo. He's one of my favorite Muppets because of how much he embraces himself and has so much fun. I can definitely see how his Whatever identity would connect with a lot of people too. I always loved his "I'm Going Back There Someday" song. It has such a somber, yet hopeful message and that really appealed to me. Hearing your version was such a beautiful way to end the video too.
"It's clear that Gonzo doesn't have a father in the home" is literally the funniest thing I've ever heard.
Gonzo has been romantically attracted to barn animals (especially chickens) since forever, but people don't have a problem with him until he wears a dress as a toddler.
It’s also wack cause he wore dresses in previous muppets shows, including the og muppet babies
He’s an alien though
You know as a feminine cisguy, I would have loved to have seen something such as this when I was a kid. It's not just LGBTQIA+ people who need this sort of thing.
As a queer trans guy, keep doing your own thing, man :)
''Punching yourself a one-way ticket to hell..'' MAN THEY SHOWED A MALE PRESENTING CHARACTER WEARING A DRESS ON KIDS TV IT'S NOT THAT DEEP
I just find weird that for a boy to use a dress he needs to be lgbtq. Why a straight man cant use a dress? Romans used robes that were basically less chamative dresses. Scotish man uses kilts.
Edit: For those who dont know, men just use pants regurlaly because of medieval era Europe. Knights ride horses, and riding with your nutsack in the saddle is reeealy uncorfortable. Because knights regurlaly used it on battle, pants became something that represent the high class and masculinity of men.
And yes, pants were used before that (They didnt get as popular), but again, normally was because some survival problem like freezing cold. Pants werent made to be everyday clothing originally.
It can be both. Either a person in the lgbtq+ or a straight guy
Rightttt
Yeah,like my dad told me that when he was younger,there used to be a guy who was riding around everywhere in a dress,and no one had a problem with that,anyone can wear a dress
I’m pretty sure people in japan didn’t start wearing trousers until world war 1 or at least it wasn’t common until then.
Real though my husband likes wearing my dresses and skirts because they’re comfortable where especially in summer when it gets really hot okay and as long as he doesn’t go and ruin my dresses I don’t care now I’ve gone comments like oh my god obviously he’s gay like well he has complimented on Samuel L Jackson how he is one fine man who can argue with that Izzy not a fine man that people freaking overdresses needs to be left in the 2000 and tens how it should’ve been left in the 1990s
I grew up with The Muppets and this fits Gonzo’s personality perfectly.
Heck, Gonzo is the whatever who dated a chicken. He just wants whatever he wants.
I agree. Gonzo’s character has always resonated with me. I’m cis, but I think it would be really uncharacteristic for him to have a cis human gender. I mean, come on. It’s Gonzo. Gonzo is just Gonzo, and he knows he’s Gonzo. That’s why we love him. 💙
Girl: wears pants
Society: oh that's fine
Boy: wears skirt/dress
Society: WTF IS THIS
But Gonzo ain't trans? Just because he crossdressed doesn't mean he wants to transition. Like how Bugs Bunny in the 60's has crossdressed many times. And Buggs is either bi, pan or straight due to Lola (and his joke of kissing everyone on the mouth)
He's a whatever. He doesn't fit into gender norms or the binary. In this video they didn't say that he's trans
Fr lol
Yea in the fuckin 60s. Are we in the 60s anymore?
"Lol the left gets triggered so easily"
* puts a thing in a dress
*angry conservative noises*
Oh no! A scene that teaches children that there’s nothing wrong with being a boy and liking girly things! THE WORLD IS ENDING 😰😨
whatever will we do!!!😥😥
AAAAAHHHHHHHH! WERE ALL GONNA DIEEEEEE
There's something so powerful about you singing a qveer song from the 80s with your wedding ring so prominent in the shot.
jim henson always wanted the muppet show to have diversity and i think he would be proud of what they're doing now.
remember, there will always be people who love and support you, as there always have been :)
I think I missed the page where he talked about political indoctrination
@@LezSpringfield I just realised you have an anime pfp.
No wonder you seemed like a troll.
@@LezSpringfield Apparently wearing a piece of cloth is political indoctrination.
@@LezSpringfield breaking news; a person wearing a dress is political indoctrination
nah but yall really be saying this shit then call us snowflakes
@Ty Tasse lol ok boomer
The term "whatever" is dismissive: "whatever, let's move on"
but in this way, the fact that gonzo is a whatever is active in a way like: "are you a boy or a girl?" "why does it matter?" and I think that's amazing
So, hi. Trans person who is also a massive Muppet fan here. I'm required by law to comment on this video, as well as this whole drama. And your video is amazing. So now the drama.
Their complaining that "queer people are taking over children's TV" as a bad thing is kind of an odd thing in my mind, especially in regards to The Muppets. Apart from Sesame Street, Jim Henson never considered his creations as children's entertainment as an exclusive thing. Meanwhile, at the same time, some of Henson's other work like The Muppet Show always had queer coded character, either in the form of Gonzo, Miss Piggy, Bunsen and Beaker, Statler and Waldorf and Janice, or to a similar extent, Red and Mokey Fraggle on Fraggle Rock. Keep in mind how many times I dropped character names like Statler, Beaker and Janice, because this next part is important.
The other thing is that Henson willingly hired gay performers at a time when it wasn't fashionable and could result in blacklisting. Folks like Richard Hunt, the performer of Beaker, Statler, Janice, Junior Gorg and tons of others. He was one of the many famous names we lost during the AIDS crisis. The Muppet Show, of course, allowed many performers, both closeted and not, to perform for a massive audience. Folks like Liberace, Elton John, Rudolph Neureav, Vincent Price. If there's any franchise that could have done gay/trans plots right, it really IS The Muppets. And the fact that they don't get that is extremely disturbing.
Hearing about this argument just makes me laugh and then get sad, because the actual episode is cute and wholesome and like any show for toddler’s and the lesson is really good and important and has been said before “ let people be themselves “so what’s the problem but then there are people who think it’s about the “trans agenda” and I don’t even know man, this world is crazy
Also the show doing this is the muppets a show which has always been for diversity and growing as a society they may not always do it right ( working with autism speaks ) but at least they actually try
Poor gonzo. He's not accepted by society. #WeSupportGonzo💜
If this was the opposite like a girl dressing up as a prince or a knight everyone would been like oh she’s a strong and powerful woman she can wear whatever and be whoever she wants. but when it’s a guy who wants to dress up as a princess everybody suddenly gets super upset about it.
They may have problems with the anime Revolutionary Girl Utena.
They would bitch and moan about making our girls less femenine
I’m not a muppet fan and I’ve never liked their design, but when I found this out I went to Disney plus just to find that chapter isn’t available in my country u.u but I’m still glad this chapter existed, as a nonbinary person I’m glad and I hope we have more representation in future media
Just pirate it
@@rattyeely that's not the point, they means as in censorship
Young children aren't really going to care too much about Gonzo (a character that is always shown as wacky and unique) dressing as the opposite gender
especially since bugs bunny is also shown as silly and CROSS DRESSED FOR YEARS yet they’re only just now mad
Yeah cross dressing has been in cartoons for a very long time. This isn't anything new
WHY are people so concerned about what other people wear? I’ve never understood it and I don’t think I ever will
Me neither.
I have always identified with Gonzo and having him open up about his identity really helps me come to terms with mine and hopefully others too 😊
Conservatives: "Boys shouldn't wear dresses"
Actually logical people: "why?"
Conservatives:
Conservatives: 😠
Conservatives: "Boys shouldn't wear dresses"
Liberal minded virtue signalling losers: "why?"
Conservatives: "Because a boy's job is to grow up and become a man, and a man's job is to be masculine. If a boy finds it so hard to be masculine that they can't even dress properly, then they're just weak. A boy who cannot live up to the expectations of a man must be ashamed. It takes zero strength to dress properly, and yet these boys wanna throw a fit because they can't dress up like a femboy? The only people who are allowed to be feminine are the privileged who don't go through any problems in life, and just sit on their ass all day in the comfort of their own home, never having to worry about responsibility."
They ain’t sone princess
@@johnpaulabocad6941 As a matter of fact, very few people are. Are you saying that dresses are reserved only for royals?
As an LGBTQ+ member with three transgender friends (one is questioning if they are trans or not,) I want you to know that… No you aren’t a “disorder,” you aren’t “crazy,” you aren’t “a choice,” and God does NOT hate you. Even if you aren’t trans, you are still valid. Ignore the haters. I and the entire LGBTQIA+ community love you for being yourself 💖
Ignore the haters, until they start organizing, engaging in acts of terror, and trying to pass legislation to suppress others. Then pay very close attention, organize, and get heavily involved in politics.
God’s a weird motherfucker if they ain’t dead
As a Gonzo fan, the negative reaction to this really got on my nerves! The idea of the character is that he's a Whatever. A guy that always does things differently from the norm. A person that no one understands, but his family accepts him anyway.
Others consider an interpretive dance or a profound poem high art, he considers dancing in a giant bucket of oatmeal or wrestling a brick high art.
Others would find a hot babe attractive, he finds poultry attractive.
Others would call going on rides and seeing shows a good time at Walt Disney World, Gonzo would rather cuddle with his girlfriend in one of the laundry mats or look in trash cans.
Heck! There's even a comic of Gonzo passing by a men's and a women's restroom so he could go to the whatever's restroom.
Before you say a franchise is going "woke", make sure you actually know about it first.
It’s literally a muppet wearing a dress “but no it’s child abuse” dude what-
Gonzo: Magical Girl.
Oh my goodness I would watch the HELL out of that
Is Camilla the magic animal sidekick?
@@Kitty-the-Bunny I think this makes Camilla the Sailor Neptune to Gonzo's Sailor Uranus (who also btw had/has cannon controversy about being binary interestingly enough...)
@@searchingfororion You're *absolutely* right
@@Kitty-the-Bunny I'm glad you approve. ^_^ Clearly by your icon, you'd have a much higher standard for magical girl criteria than others.
This is actually Franziska von Karma from Ace Attorney- she's a lawyer, not a magical girl. ^^' But I DO love magical girls and also I think I have an AU to make now because who says she can't be both?
Gonzo has, canonically, identified as "whatever" in the past. Gonzo is whatever they feel they want to be.
I just find it highly irritating when people say that homosexuality shouldn't be pushed upon children because it might corrupt or make then homosexual. I think its an educational moment that can raise questions for younger audiences. Like for example: the episode of Arthur where were they find out Mr.Ratburn is gay.
I’m a big Muppets fan and you really did an amazing job on this video!
Gonzo wearing a dress really shouldn’t be shocking to any fan. Gonzo has always struggled with their place in the world and really removed all boundaries in hopes that one day that place would be found.
Really great work here!
As someone who recently figured out I was nonbinary, I knew there was a reason Gonzo was always my favorite
Zaphod said enby rights
the part where the news reporter said being trans was a "mental illness" made me rage so hard >:/
I am honestly bewildered how ridiculous this "trans panic" thing is. Society is unfortunately affected by so many bad stereotypes from looks, to skin color to heck, how you dress. I was once ridiculed by a homophobic women who thought because I had short hair, I was automatically a lesbian, which isn't the case. It hurt and angered me to know such garbage claims are placed onto LGBTQ+ people or anyone who is deemed to "look" like a homosexual or anything deemed as "abnormal" by society.
Stay strong because indeed, life is about evolving and society simply needs to catch up.
I’m offended that people are getting offended by this. These people need to stop living in the past and let there be new positive Things that we can learn with our emotions. Pretty much here’s a message to these people. You may say your own beliefs but we have the right to open up and express our feelings!
So because you're offended at people getting offended at this, you get to say that they shouldn't get offended by this, argo telling people to stop telling people what to do
@@Jin-lg9kw learn how to spell before you defend hateful people
@@MakenaForest what spelling mistakes did i make?
As a trans person I will continue to feel unwelcome by the vast majority of media and people. Thanks people
Don’t let the stupid ass media and ppl make u feel unwelcome, they don’t know any better and sadly they prolly never will, I just want u to know u wonderful and if I could I’d give u hug rn❤️
@@andiflores4638 aww this made me smile
@@azaleaadair9053 💕💕
People like Candace Owens don't represent a majority. They represent a minority of people who are so insecure, ignorant, and bigoted that the have to bully the people around them into conforming to a set of expectations that aren't reasonable or coherent. Don't let the Candace Owenses of the world win by keeping you from seeing how many people will accept and value you for who you are.
This was great, I love Gonzo getting the recognition he deserves and being an important icon and reference for all us little Gonzos out there. Thank you for this.
Kermit sang a song about rainbows and taught kid me the importance of connections, and even though the song didn't have anything to do with sexuality, it indirectly showed me that my connections with people can be with anybody and who I am is "something that I'm supposed to be"
And now I find out that Gonzo isn't constricted by society's views of him or whatever he may be, cause he's a whatever, an artist, and a little weirdo, and I wouldn't want him any other way. And I wouldn't want to be any less than Odd
The funniest thing about the outrage is that the media is crying over a literal muppet with a dress
i think a lot abt my mom sending me an article talking about this and how excited she was, even moreso when i was happy she showed me. it was really sweet. stuff like this can be so so helpful to trans kids and to parents of said kids who genuinely want to try and help them and show them that their experiences are normal. (not the same situation for me because i’m 21, but still)
I don’t understand why people will call us sensitive yet make entire videos on why gonzo wearing a dress is predatory
I stan Princess Gonzo.
Miss Piggy said it best when she once said:
"It’s almost as laughable as accusing Fox News as being, uh, news!”
Gonzo in main muppet cannon is literally a masochist but wearing a dress as a kid is a bridge too far I guess
Gonzo is one of those characters that almost any societal misfit can relate to. I love Gonzo because he made weird normal to me. I’ve always tried to embrace my weirdness, because if a whatever can date a chicken, shoot themselves from cannons, teach a block of cheese how to salsa, and sing introspective, meaningful songs about not fitting in yet. I can be my weird theater kid self too! Gender is a label like any other. Labels can be changed, replaced over time, or gotten rid of all together. Gonzo can be whatever Gonzo wants to be. That’s what it means when he says he’s a Whatever. And you know what, I’m a whatever too.
Gonzo’s a Disney Princess now and nobody can change my mind!
Nothing about this has anything to do with children transitioning. It's just about being able to wear what you want
Considering this is the guy who ate a TIRE to flight of the bumblebees.........this is not that weird. Also I think this would have been perfect for a skit in the original Muppet show
"It's child abuse."
No, it's teaching your child that LGBTQ+ is okay! And it's great, because gonzo is lots of kids favorite character! and it teaches kids that this is normal. You don't want your child when they are older to find a early Trans kid and make fun of them. If you think that making fun of a lgbtq+ is okay then that's literally bullshit.
Now I'm thoroughly convinced that people don't have actual problems in their life if they get so concerned about a Muppet, who just happens to be male, wears a dress.
There was a time not that long ago when women weren't supposed to wear pants.
Clothes are pieces of fabric you wear on your body, why should it have anything to do with gender?
Let people wear what they want, it's not that deep.
I mean, I always found it a little unfair that there are tons of opportunities where the girl main character wants to be a knight, or wants to go on adventures, or do masculine things, and that's okay. But the second a guy wants to wear a dress or anything like that, it's inappropriate.
Fr
Like for some reason Tom boys are OK and actually pretty common but sissies aren’t
I just want to say that Gonzo's outfits where always so pleasant to see, he has been an inspiration to me since childhood wearing clothes with all kinds of patterns and high waisted pants, it's a thing not everyone would wear because of the fear of been seen as a weirdo, so him confidently wearing a dress melted my heart.
"It's child abuse"
*I'm sorry, I just choked on a load of bullshit*