Actually I think it's a lot better, since Mastema was the one responsible for the sudden change of personality. In the original, he sort of changes himself without foreshadowing. So, while he's significantly more abrasive, you can chalk it up as almost brainwashing. Also the part about "I don't need to live my life depending on others" is very fitting considering his backstory.
Dazai's hair is styled like the Angel Micheal from the series. Micheal being the spear of god and most common Angel used to fight demons. After Mastema bestowed power and new knowledge, Dazai and Abdiel take on the role of being the spear of god. Excercising power to kill the Demon king, kill the Nahobino, and march onto the emperium as Gods will.
Exactly. With the hat, he looks somewhat dorky but approachable and really friendly. On the surface, he doesn't have any problems with anybody and just goes along with everyone else's decisions. Then, he removes the hat and the buried ego, the conceit, the self-confidence, the inner strength, the ambition finally gets laid bare for all to see. A perfect self-demonstrating article of Rob Caro's "Power does not corrupt, it reveals. When a person has the power to do anything they wanted to do, you see what they always wanted to do".
They literally all just agreed to be best friends, then dazai spoke to mastema and changed, didn't give us a reason why he did but it's implied he's being controlled
@@BAIGAMINGI also really liked this new story, it's sad cause the nahobino and tsukuyomi didn't even realize dazai was being controlled, they get revenge for atsuta without ever knowing the truth
I don't think Mastema was exerting literal mind control over him but rather used his magic and power to uber-brainwash him into doing all of this and thinking the Law faction was completely justified in everything they did, meaning, Ichiro still had all of his mental faculties and was in charge of his own consciousness and mind but the Mastema brainwash was so powerful he became this deranged psycho extremist overnight It's a small but crucial difference
I get that Vengeance wanted to make Ichiro Dazai’s character a bit better from the Creation storyline, and I think they did accomplish that. But to me, it still feels a bit…well, empty. Don’t get me wrong, there’s something that somewhat filled the void, but Ichiro’s new role as a Law and Order alignment leader still is missing a lot of character. If you ask me, they should’ve gave some screen time of him with Mastema telepathically “guiding” him to follow the will of God by giving him ideas about what to do and Ichiro following them hesitantly at first, but starts to get used to it later. That’s just my idea, and I just felt like that I should get that off my chest. Sorry if this was long.
Atlus work too much on extremes. CoC was criticized for being too Neutral-biased, so they decided to make CoV not have a Neutral ending (which was kinda lame). Yuzuru got almost no focus in CoV, so they gave him almost all the spotlight in CoV. And so on and so forth. There are still things in the game that would greatly benefit from an expansion pass. Some demons that didn't make the cut, Ichiro and Mastema's rapport, Samael's role in the story (since he states he's the one who summoned the Qadistu into the world), maybe a true endgame boss for Chaos, since facing Mastema controlling Tiamat felt strange, then we faced Mastema again and so on. I usually don't ask for DLC in games, but VV could really benefit from some.
Oh, I got an idea! If Vengeance had a neutral ending, Tiamat would be the final boss, we would fight Translucent Lucifer with all his phases, and the end goal would be to create some kind of barrier that repels both demons and angels from the human world, with the condition of it being broken by the extinction of mankind? And the endgame boss for Chaos would be God Himself, since that’s what the Qadištu and Samael wanted to kill from the start?
@@thegodslayer8685 that would be too similar to the "create a world for humanity alone" ending in the Canon of Creation, however. A Neutral ending for Vengeance would only work if it involves getting rid of the system as a whole - for that, the Mandala would need to become something you can actually interact and beat, like Canopus in Devil Survivor 2. Also neither the Qadistu nor Samuel want to kill God. God is already dead by the time the game starts. They want to tear His world down.
Kinda disappointed there's no universe where Dazai isnt a massive piece of shit. He's a hypocrite too. "I don't need to live my life depending on others", he says while depending on God's Law to give him a purpose.
Same, I was hoping Vengeance would make him better. He's definitely a contradiction, it reminds me of how the characters in Nocturne acted, like Chiaki talking about power even though she was gifted her strength from Gozu Tennoh, and like Isamu talking about not doing anything and makes you do all the work to get his magatsuhi.
I like how this time Dazai is the one that convinces Abdiel to go after the Nahobino. It really adds a lot to their dynamic and gives him much more importance earlier on than Creation.
@@BAIGAMINGMe too, I wish Mastema had given Dazai an angel form like how Mastema gave Zelenin her form so there is at least proof of Dazai's "new power" rather than him hiding behind the skirts of Abdiel.
Omg don't be him 😅But I like how they made the law alignment representatives look wild, and the chaos alignment representatives all wear suits which is a nice reversal.
@@BAIGAMING OG Dazai does have resolve on his own to enforce order. Starting from feeling weak and helpless, brave himself enough to talk to Abdiel who is very menacing and strict Angel. He's happy how he can contribute in Surt arc and sees Abdiel as a mother figure that he never had before. He faced harsh reality that the pantheon gods are start racing on taking the throne plus seeing Abdiel got beaten by the MC. In the brink of despair, he realizes if you want to uphold justice, you should do it yourself. Hence, he managed to persuade Abdiel to become nahobino. Breaking one law for greater purpose, upholding the Creator's order. I would say he's the closest guy who resembles Zayin, the law rep in SMT II Vengeance Dazai is just Mastema's pawn for his schemes. A lapdog and a prick.
You have no diea how much this has haunted me for so long, I can hear Bury The Light, but only the instrumental because this asshole doesn't know how to be Motivated and only brain washed
I'm confused on which side i should take in this comment section, to say whether the characterization in cov is better or that barely anything improved...
Hmmm well I really like the Qadistu in Vengeance and that plotline. The developers tried to put the old characters in a different light too and I get that it barely improved if any, but I felt like the real focus is meant to be on the Qadistu and Yoko. I think they put in the old characters out of obligation and for simplicity to be able to re-use the assets.
Do I the only person who like Ichiro Dazai? He just tries not to be a loser anymore, like you have one change to become on top in the post apocalypse world, either you help Nahobino or go back home, you die either way, so it is worth every bit of effort. To be fair, the protagonist is also survive in the first place because of Lucifer send Aogami to save him, so it is not different for Ichiro Dazai receive the blessing from Mastema.
I sympathized with him in the original SMT V but he's more cruel in this version. In the original game he quickly gets a lawful alignment, I did all his optional conversations in the base and you could tell he likes law alignment a lot, he doesn't really like how the Prime Minister is asking for everyone's opinions - he thought Bethel Japan would be like a military where he'd get ordered by one leader. I liked him better in the original game because it was fair at the end of the game, all the factions compete at the endgame to see who gets their wish. But here it looks more like a betrayal and him taking advantage when everyone else is weak.
CoV Dazai trust mastema (a huge mistake really you can ask people who played Strange Journey what happen to Zelenin) and simply become mastema's lapdog. CoC Dazai had his own conviction (Lucifer inspires him a bit too tho) with enforcing law and order to the point he's able to convince Abdiel to broke one law for enforcing God's order.
Absolutely, he had no reason to do all this 😥I still really like Devil Survivor's route representatives, some of the most well done routes in the whole series.
Honestly, to those saying this is a lot better than the original for Dazai, it isn't. There is still no buildup for Dazai's change in personality. We are just left to assume that Mastema's touch changed it. It is still half assed.
Hmm true, I don't know if the developers assumed you played the Canon of Creation route first because Canon of Vengeance skips a bunch of plot. I thought Dazai got a lot of buildup in the original plot - he looks silly but he's definitely lawful alignment and he gets a lot of scenes with Abdiel. I was hoping for more buildup regarding Yuzuru, Nuwa and Yakumo. Though the Qadištu are really amazing villains and I'm happy they went for a very different route, literally speaking.😁
When the devs said that they’re making CoV as a sort of apology for CoC’s underwhelming reception, I didn’t expect them to make the characters that much more unreasonable and nonsensical. This is them saying “Uh oh, we need to make law look bad, quick!” This is such an asspool that I simply cannot describe.
Actually I think it's a lot better, since Mastema was the one responsible for the sudden change of personality. In the original, he sort of changes himself without foreshadowing. So, while he's significantly more abrasive, you can chalk it up as almost brainwashing. Also the part about "I don't need to live my life depending on others" is very fitting considering his backstory.
what being turned to salt and back does to a mfer
@@zaqareemalcolmHe's literally salty now.
Dazai looks like completely different person without his hat he looks actually scary💀
Dazai's hair is styled like the Angel Micheal from the series. Micheal being the spear of god and most common Angel used to fight demons. After Mastema bestowed power and new knowledge, Dazai and Abdiel take on the role of being the spear of god. Excercising power to kill the Demon king, kill the Nahobino, and march onto the emperium as Gods will.
Idk what you talking about but seeing Dazai look up in the sky reaching his hands out is pretty creepy. Dazai really think he the honored one.
Exactly.
With the hat, he looks somewhat dorky but approachable and really friendly. On the surface, he doesn't have any problems with anybody and just goes along with everyone else's decisions.
Then, he removes the hat and the buried ego, the conceit, the self-confidence, the inner strength, the ambition finally gets laid bare for all to see.
A perfect self-demonstrating article of Rob Caro's "Power does not corrupt, it reveals. When a person has the power to do anything they wanted to do, you see what they always wanted to do".
They literally all just agreed to be best friends, then dazai spoke to mastema and changed, didn't give us a reason why he did but it's implied he's being controlled
Yeah I assume it was Mastema's touch is when the mind control began
@@BAIGAMINGyeah and if you go to 0:49 dazai strikes a pose similar to the ones mastema does
@@BAIGAMINGI also really liked this new story, it's sad cause the nahobino and tsukuyomi didn't even realize dazai was being controlled, they get revenge for atsuta without ever knowing the truth
this is what really bugging me. They shouldve shown atleast the brainwashing or try to resist it or smth with flashbacks idk
I don't think Mastema was exerting literal mind control over him but rather used his magic and power to uber-brainwash him into doing all of this and thinking the Law faction was completely justified in everything they did, meaning, Ichiro still had all of his mental faculties and was in charge of his own consciousness and mind but the Mastema brainwash was so powerful he became this deranged psycho extremist overnight
It's a small but crucial difference
I get that Vengeance wanted to make Ichiro Dazai’s character a bit better from the Creation storyline, and I think they did accomplish that. But to me, it still feels a bit…well, empty. Don’t get me wrong, there’s something that somewhat filled the void, but Ichiro’s new role as a Law and Order alignment leader still is missing a lot of character. If you ask me, they should’ve gave some screen time of him with Mastema telepathically “guiding” him to follow the will of God by giving him ideas about what to do and Ichiro following them hesitantly at first, but starts to get used to it later.
That’s just my idea, and I just felt like that I should get that off my chest. Sorry if this was long.
Yeah even though there's more scenes it still somehow feels rushed to me especially him and Mastema it's very rushed.
Glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. It’s like they neglected Ichiro this time around and gave Yuzuru the spotlight lol.
Atlus work too much on extremes. CoC was criticized for being too Neutral-biased, so they decided to make CoV not have a Neutral ending (which was kinda lame). Yuzuru got almost no focus in CoV, so they gave him almost all the spotlight in CoV. And so on and so forth.
There are still things in the game that would greatly benefit from an expansion pass. Some demons that didn't make the cut, Ichiro and Mastema's rapport, Samael's role in the story (since he states he's the one who summoned the Qadistu into the world), maybe a true endgame boss for Chaos, since facing Mastema controlling Tiamat felt strange, then we faced Mastema again and so on. I usually don't ask for DLC in games, but VV could really benefit from some.
Oh, I got an idea! If Vengeance had a neutral ending, Tiamat would be the final boss, we would fight Translucent Lucifer with all his phases, and the end goal would be to create some kind of barrier that repels both demons and angels from the human world, with the condition of it being broken by the extinction of mankind?
And the endgame boss for Chaos would be God Himself, since that’s what the Qadištu and Samael wanted to kill from the start?
@@thegodslayer8685 that would be too similar to the "create a world for humanity alone" ending in the Canon of Creation, however. A Neutral ending for Vengeance would only work if it involves getting rid of the system as a whole - for that, the Mandala would need to become something you can actually interact and beat, like Canopus in Devil Survivor 2.
Also neither the Qadistu nor Samuel want to kill God. God is already dead by the time the game starts. They want to tear His world down.
Kinda disappointed there's no universe where Dazai isnt a massive piece of shit. He's a hypocrite too. "I don't need to live my life depending on others", he says while depending on God's Law to give him a purpose.
Same, I was hoping Vengeance would make him better. He's definitely a contradiction, it reminds me of how the characters in Nocturne acted, like Chiaki talking about power even though she was gifted her strength from Gozu Tennoh, and like Isamu talking about not doing anything and makes you do all the work to get his magatsuhi.
things are serious as hell now
I like how this time Dazai is the one that convinces Abdiel to go after the Nahobino. It really adds a lot to their dynamic and gives him much more importance earlier on than Creation.
Exactly
Camper move Dazai, camper move, he talks a lot of shit but fights like a camper when the real threat shows up like the Qaditsu and Tiamat
I wish he had a new boss form for Vengeance
@@BAIGAMINGMe too, I wish Mastema had given Dazai an angel form like how Mastema gave Zelenin her form so there is at least proof of Dazai's "new power" rather than him hiding behind the skirts of Abdiel.
I was so shocked the law allignment was threathing for a reason now, tbh, i like him, i could even say, he's literally me
Omg don't be him 😅But I like how they made the law alignment representatives look wild, and the chaos alignment representatives all wear suits which is a nice reversal.
@@BAIGAMING No, literally me
This is what you get for trusting Mastema
Exactly! In SMT4 on the law route Jonathan/Merkabah is the only one who is smart, he will tell you to get rid of Mastema in a side quest!
@@BAIGAMING OG Dazai does have resolve on his own to enforce order. Starting from feeling weak and helpless, brave himself enough to talk to Abdiel who is very menacing and strict Angel.
He's happy how he can contribute in Surt arc and sees Abdiel as a mother figure that he never had before.
He faced harsh reality that the pantheon gods are start racing on taking the throne plus seeing Abdiel got beaten by the MC. In the brink of despair, he realizes if you want to uphold justice, you should do it yourself.
Hence, he managed to persuade Abdiel to become nahobino. Breaking one law for greater purpose, upholding the Creator's order. I would say he's the closest guy who resembles Zayin, the law rep in SMT II
Vengeance Dazai is just Mastema's pawn for his schemes. A lapdog and a prick.
Dazai… You heartless bastard.
My man became Vergil
You have no diea how much this has haunted me for so long, I can hear Bury The Light, but only the instrumental because this asshole doesn't know how to be Motivated and only brain washed
I'm confused on which side i should take in this comment section, to say whether the characterization in cov is better or that barely anything improved...
Hmmm well I really like the Qadistu in Vengeance and that plotline. The developers tried to put the old characters in a different light too and I get that it barely improved if any, but I felt like the real focus is meant to be on the Qadistu and Yoko. I think they put in the old characters out of obligation and for simplicity to be able to re-use the assets.
3:43 “I’m watching you” ahh move
Bro thinks he’s virgil 💀💀💀💀💀💀
Do I the only person who like Ichiro Dazai? He just tries not to be a loser anymore, like you have one change to become on top in the post apocalypse world, either you help Nahobino or go back home, you die either way, so it is worth every bit of effort. To be fair, the protagonist is also survive in the first place because of Lucifer send Aogami to save him, so it is not different for Ichiro Dazai receive the blessing from Mastema.
I sympathized with him in the original SMT V but he's more cruel in this version. In the original game he quickly gets a lawful alignment, I did all his optional conversations in the base and you could tell he likes law alignment a lot, he doesn't really like how the Prime Minister is asking for everyone's opinions - he thought Bethel Japan would be like a military where he'd get ordered by one leader. I liked him better in the original game because it was fair at the end of the game, all the factions compete at the endgame to see who gets their wish. But here it looks more like a betrayal and him taking advantage when everyone else is weak.
CoV Dazai trust mastema (a huge mistake really you can ask people who played Strange Journey what happen to Zelenin) and simply become mastema's lapdog.
CoC Dazai had his own conviction (Lucifer inspires him a bit too tho) with enforcing law and order to the point he's able to convince Abdiel to broke one law for enforcing God's order.
Dazai is still cringe bruh
Yes definitely very edgy😅
ATLUS always writes very evil Law representatives. Besides Strange Journey, Law has never been nuanced which is sad
@@macemaster5295 And Zayin in SMT 2 ?
@@nr2676 How and why did ping me?? HUH
@@BAIGAMING edgy is a cringey buzzword
I thought he was a jerk
Absolutely, he had no reason to do all this 😥I still really like Devil Survivor's route representatives, some of the most well done routes in the whole series.
Honestly, to those saying this is a lot better than the original for Dazai, it isn't. There is still no buildup for Dazai's change in personality. We are just left to assume that Mastema's touch changed it. It is still half assed.
Hmm true, I don't know if the developers assumed you played the Canon of Creation route first because Canon of Vengeance skips a bunch of plot. I thought Dazai got a lot of buildup in the original plot - he looks silly but he's definitely lawful alignment and he gets a lot of scenes with Abdiel. I was hoping for more buildup regarding Yuzuru, Nuwa and Yakumo. Though the Qadištu are really amazing villains and I'm happy they went for a very different route, literally speaking.😁
it is better, this is pure unadultered smt where your friends go mad due demonic bs and triggered tourist get angry theyre not good people
When the devs said that they’re making CoV as a sort of apology for CoC’s underwhelming reception, I didn’t expect them to make the characters that much more unreasonable and nonsensical. This is them saying “Uh oh, we need to make law look bad, quick!” This is such an asspool that I simply cannot describe.
True I would've liked a more distinct and separate route with more scenes of the Qadištu instead.
babies first smt game and she didnt know all your friends go mad every single time