I read Rendezvous With Rama and loved it. Tried reading Rama II and gave up. After 80 pages they still hadn't reached Rama and were fiddling about with soap opera nonsense. Arthur C Clarke wrote hard science fiction. Gentry Lee wrote airport novels.
You're right it turns into sci-fantasy. I read them so long ago I can't remember the details. But I thought it kinda makes sense as a "scientific expedition". The first one is a probe, collecting mostly information about likely intelligent species. Hardly anyone actually reaches it, so it's mostly empty, and doesn't stay long. The second one collects samples and stowaways, so is a bit more habitable, and studies them more closely. The third one builds actual habitable areas en route and collects a viable population, an entire colony to study. But I don't remember if it's ever explained "Why?" Are the Ramans just curious, benevolent scientists who go around the galaxy collecting intelligent species in order to preserve the preciousness of intelligence, and introduce them to each other, so we can all learn to live in peace? That's the kinda hippy vibe I got from it. I bet that was Clarke. He turned all hippy in his later years. Lee's books are very dry, impersonal, militaristic and tactical. He doesn't Human well. So I'm guessing Lee did the math, and Clarke did the characters. Anyway, they're worth a read if you don't mind sci-fantasy and got nothing better to read ATM. Or you're a completionist. :)
I agree wholeheartedly and honestly after reading Rama II and going into the background of these books to learn that Clark never intended to write any sequels (and didn’t actually have any involvement in Lee’s books beyond being used to bounce a few ideas off him) I actually reread the ending of Rendezvous and took it in an entirely different light. What originally felt like a cliffhanger to me read more as a simple statement on my return to it - a statement that “we’re likely to see 2 more of these ships and they’ll be just as disinterested in us as they were last time”. The entire theme of the first book, as you rightly state, is that we’re just so insignificant and don’t feature in the plans of this advanced species. Clarke uses the metaphor of feeling like “ants crawling on the inside of a bottle” more than once to really drive this home. The idea that an author would turn around and make it all about us just totally misses the point…
The thing that bugged me about the sequels wasn’t what they changed, it was the fact that I contributed to a blatant money grab. I think the only think Clarke contributed to these books was the credibility of his name (which was pretty deteriorated after the first sequel).
Thank you for a well organized, substantiated and objective review. I loved the original so much. I have re read it regularly and still inspires a sense awe as the first time. But when I read the first sequel ... I felt cheated. Really hated the way it destroyed all the serene elation and mystery of the original.
To add my thoughts on the title question: I actually enjoyed the sequels. Yes, they have a different feeling in them than RwR, but I actually DO think they are really worth reading.
I don’t agree. I slogged through them and my conclusion was that Gentry Lee wanted to write a 90s soap opera in space and bastardised Clark’s original intent and message with the story. They’re absolutely dreadful and leave a bad taste in your mouth.
Thank you for the video. I listened to Rendezvous with RAMA on audio book. I have the book. It was pretty good. After reading the comments I don't think I'll continue the series - since - from what I understand Clarke wasn't involved too much with the rest of the series - did I get that right? Anyway I'm moving on - some things are best kept original. 🤙
I've read the sequels: Rama II, The garden of Rama, and Rama Revealed. I'v read them time twice. Awesome books. I was hoping to see the movie. Thank you.
I don't even have to watch the video to answer that question. Yes you should. They expand so much on the original novel. And then you should read Bright Messengers and Double Full Moon Night by Gentry Lee, a duology set within the same universe.
I became a hard fan of Clarke's stories since I was a teenager, I loved Rendezvous since the first pages. My expectations with Rama II were high and my disappointing with it (and the other two books) was also very, very high. I am still angry with the way Gentry Lee used Arthur Clarke for his own interests and corrupted a beautiful hard sci fi jewel and turned it into a boring soap opera... I read the three books waiting for something marvelous to happen, as is usual in Clarke's novels, but that never happened. There were only some bright glimpses of the ramans (which I would bet, were written by Clarke himself) but no more. Clarke should have written the stories alone...or not.
I read first Garden of Rama by chance, I din't even knew that it's a sequel, and I fully loved it, and still enjoyed the rest of the saga very much even disordered
Great clip. I stopped after 'Rama Revealed' because Rama wasn't actually revealed and I realized that Clarke's version is far and away the definitive vision. Publisher was just milking their consumers. Peace.
From where I have gotten to in Rama II (chapter 21 "Pandora's Cube") I have to agree with you. Be nice if some animator would do Rendezvous as a serious animation. Altho modern CGI and green screening are getting pretty good!
I actually read "Rama II" first. Then I read the first book, which was much better. Then I attempted to read rest of the sequels. Attempt failed. Few weeks ago I read them in order, but by the 4/5 of "Garden of Rama" I switched to "Dream catcher" by Stephen King... The proper Rama sequel should show humanity's attempt to get to the ship earlier, explore it in greater detail, and even try to get access to its computer or navigation system. In the end they would learn some secrets, but not the important stuff. The third book would follow the same pattern, with goal of obtaining the secrets of reactionless drive, and they would succeed, only to discover that Rama decided to not let them out, as this information is not for them. In my version of the story Rama ignores humanity the way we ignore ants... Instead we got a character driven adventure with Mary Sue as protagonist and some weird vibes from the author. By that I mean an older man getting married to teenage girl because advanced alien species can't figure out artificial womb and genetic modification. And that pair are catholic. Coincidence? I don't think so...
I thought it was good. 3 where left on the ship, they had kids went to the hub and met the eagle. Refitted the ship to take human colonies, met Aliens, went back to earth, picked up passengers. Humans being humans tried to kill everything. Made it back to the hub. Nichol chooses to die instead of being turned in to a robot. The end.
I read all the books in high school around 2001-2003. I loved the first book, still one of my favorites along with Dune 1 and 2. I had no idea that Rama 2, 3, and 4 were all written much latter and mostly by Gentry Lee, but back then I had the suspicion. I like the sequels but they aren’t as good as the original. The OG book is a masterpiece
I started reading Ramma II and felt that too, I finished it and then this video hit my algorithm. Thanks for the summary and your insights! Do you plan to talk about more sci-fi novels?
I read the first a long time ago. Didn't know there were squeals. I don't read a lot.... Michner's SPACE, Battlefield Earth 4 times, Star Ship Troopers
If you're into hard science, Clarke (writing alone) can't be beat. I read Rama II all the way through, got about halfway thru the 3rd book and never finished it (luckily just borrowed it from a friend, was happy to return it), never bothered with subsequent books.
It's been 20 years since I read them, but remember having the exact same feeling, like it just didn't fit with the first book at all. But they were still descent enough that I read all of them. Definitely not HARD sci fi and much more focused on characters (which admittedly lacked in the original).
I agree that the sequels could not compare with the mystery and suspense of Rendezvous. I definitely prefer Clarke’s style over Lee’s. Also his story lines of personal relationships among crew members and eventually family members made the whole story kind of drag for me. But remember the builders of Rama also said they change Rama for whatever task they give it. Such as going back to earth to collect earthlings. I had hoped the sequel would be as much fun as the original, with or without the surprise ending and all, but the soap opera feelings I got from the characters kind of dulled it all down. It became a story about them and not about the amazing discoveries and new mysteries of the incredible interior world of an immense spaceship. And whoever told Nicole de Jardin she was always right? All in all I give the direct sequels a C+. At most a B-. Too much Gentry Lee and not enough Arthur C. Clarke.
I have bailed on Rama ll twice, because the second time finishing Rama i thought "it can't be as bad as i remember, or maybe it gets better", so much did Rama rev me up. I won't make that mistake a third time. Unlike the Ramans, i can forego doing everything in threes. I kill me.
Woah. There are many things in RwR that are not explained by common sense and known physics. It's not as bullet proof as many seem to think it is. Problems such as: -The way the "gravity" works (essentially there's none unless you are standing on the interior, but Clarke seems to think there is some kind of diminishing gravity towards the spin axis in mid air). -The atmosphere. Funnily enough completely breathable by humans. And what happens when the interior gets down to near absolute zero? - All those lifeforms in the ocean. Yet nobody dies from alien bacteria and, v.v, Rama is not affected by the introduction of Earth bacteria. - The stairs; how very anthropocentric (along with quite a few other things). - The rather unrealistic trajectory across the inner solar system. Clarke seems to have made some effort to do a back of a fag packet calculation, but his timings are a factor of two out. Ok, it's just a story and it's an interesting read, but it's certainly not as scientifically accurate as it could have been. Clarke does a lot better in some of his other stories. There are other issues too - nobody takes any interest in magical materials that can survive asteroid impacts. They didn't even bother to take any samples. But that's another set of suspension of disbelief. 😄
Rama Revealed is great as a standalone... by itself, i get to engage in descriptive details of a giant ship and a conflict of humans and other alien colonies, but honestly, the exploration is what draws me, so having to imagine all the visual splendor in my head makes up for the political human stuff happening in the background... It honestly was not central to my focus lol
Agree that RWR is great sci-fi, but the sequels are a totally different ballgame. Read 3 of them but felt they ruined the original story completely. Hope Villeneuve will only do RWR as a stand-alone adventure.
Having just finished the full series for the first time (I had read RWR once before, but struggled to get through Rama 2 on initial reading), I can say that in a vacuum, the sequels are fine books, not great, but decent. But compared to the first book, they just suck. Also, while I understand the context of them, Garden had some disgusting scenes that I’m shocked made it into the final novel.
The sequels are a lot like the TV show Lost before Lost was a thing. Lots of intrigue lots of mystery, bugger all resolution. It is obvious Gentry did the bulk of the work and Clarke was just padding his retirement fund
I listened to the audio book version of Rendezvous with Rama last week and it was great. I started listening to the 2nd book. The 2nd book is really annoying. Too much character development before they even get to rama 2.
While I share the general dissatisfaction with the sequels, I have a completely different reason for it: While I love both Clarke's fiction and Lee's real-world engineering skills........NEITHER of them could write characterization worth a damn! Clarke's solo books didn't suffer much for it because Clarke didn't write much characterization (I'd guess that's because he knew he wasn't good at that aspect of writing, so he deliberately avoided it). So partnering with Lee for the sequels is puzzling because Lee is no improvement in that regard. Worse, the sequels have plenty of character moments, and they almost ALWAYS feel phony. Most obvious example: In Rama Revealed, when Richard Wakefield's daughter confides her drug addiction to him........does ANYBODY in the real world talk like that?!?
I have read most of Clark's books as with Asimov, both trained scientists and extraordinary imaginations considering the era in which they were born. The only comparable person of the same stature is H G Wells, also scientifically trained. Therefore it would take someone with equal insight to produce work of such quality. Sequels to Rama were unnecessary it is complete.
Good question! First, I think that mysteries are always more fun to think about than to have answered. But I'm just like everyone else and wants to know the answers. So even tho I think there would still be a lot of people feeling unsatisfied, Lee did the double damage of not just answering the mysteries in an unsatisfying way, he also ruined what made the original special, Which I really doubt Clarke would have done. So the readers feel both insulted and let down. "you liked how old rama was? Well that was actually not true. Its brand new. And btw, I'm gonna ignore your original questions while changing the story to make them not matter anyway" at least thats how I felt. lol
@@SciFiSecrets thanks for the response . However im struggling to find a way to have the series continue if it kept with Clarkes vision. For example, why would there be another Rama If the our solar system was not important to them?
@@isaacbourdeau3167 well that part is easy. "ramans do everything in 3's" So if they sent one ship to a destination, they would most likely send 3. But the first part of your question is much harder. Personally, this is how I think it would go. The space christians that I can never remember the name of, would most likely have a large percentage of their religion get on the 3rd rama since they believe its an ark like in the bible, sent to save humanity. They would bring a lot of stuff on rama obviously, but the most important thing they would have to do is discover how to control rama. Otherwise they will all freeze to death in the dark. But if they could manage that, and figure out how to survive on rama, they have a very long trip on their hands. Eventually they may even forget that they came from earth after many generations and believe that the inside of rama is the entire universe if they devolve badly enough. Or they could find out how to control rama to the point where they would have rama MAKE a raman with new york. (or both, one society on either side of the sea) making a raman could go a few ways also. Maybe they would have genetic memory, maybe not. Maybe they wouldn't know anything we didn't teach them, just like a human baby. Or maybe they grew up knowing everything. the only problem I see, is that I cant see how it ends in any way other than them all dying when rama runs out of power eventually. Even if that is in a few thousand years. Rama is clearly made to save energy on its long interstellar voyage, suck up energy from its destination sun, and use that to make the ramans. At least that seems to be the intent imo. unless they use some kind of hibernation pods? but hundreds of thousands of years seem to make that impossible imo. The ramans would be doing it otherwise I would think. ...actually i just thought of a solution... Nuclear generators. They last thousands of years and as they die, the remaining uranium could be combined from 2 spent reactors to make a new one with the right tools. they could use them for heat while rama saves energy also. ...I'd have to look into it more to see if that is really possible but its an idea. Still, I think it could be a both fun and tragic story. We get to know how rama works as they figure it out, and it ends with everyone dying... or not if something like the nuclear generators can last that long. Ok, obviously you got me talking about something I've been thinking of. lol.
@@SciFiSecrets that is a very intriguing concept. Makes me convinced that someone should pick this series up again. BYW love the channel. I was really looking for someone who was talking about science fiction books. Thank you :)
My opinion: Gentry Lee should never have been allowed to do any of the sequels. To me, they were ultimately silly. I read RWR when I was a kid, and re-read the original a few times, I'm 71 now and remember how awful the sequels were, and yes, I read all of them. Just embarrassing. Remember, this is my opinion, I am not a writer or literary critic, just a sci-fi pedestrian who loved R.with Rama very much. Why Clarke let him ruin his beautiful idea I'll never know. I felt silly reading all the sequels.
I dont know quite why, but i just love seeing older folk (65+) talk about how they read RwR "as a kid" and enjoyed it. You Folks live through the "Golden era" of Science-fiction ...What a Time to Be Alive!!!! (Im jealous)
Idk about the idea that the 3 ships were going to be the same. I feel like the ending of the first one was that there would be 3 ships but that they would have different unknown purposes. I mean it sounds like the sequels is shit and not what I thought it should be.
I first read Rama about a decade ago (with so many books to read, it just fell through the cracks in my collection), and loved it. I went out and got Rama II looking forward to more of Clark's "hard science" fiction. I couldn't get through the first 50 pages! With having some knowledge of how NASA picks astronauts I found every character introduced in those first 50 pages more like bad 1970's Soap Opera characters than mission professionals that they should have been. And the writing style of Lee was just off-putting. Rama II went up on my book shelf never to be touched until I traded it in at a used book store.
Nope. Aside from the fact that they are horribly, horribly written -- clunky, dull word-assemblages in stark contrast to the sparse elegance of Clarke's prose, and attempts at characterization that occasionally rise above the mush into juvenile stereotyping -- they take the whole multiplanet civilization that was the backdrop of Clarke's novel and stomp it into the ground for no good reason at all.
Next week: Armor by John Steakley!
Totally agree with you. Loved the original, found the sequels disappointing.
HAHA "The aliens wanted to hang out with the cool humans, who wouldnt want to hang out with us...". SO good! You just earned yourself a subscription!
I read Rendezvous With Rama and loved it. Tried reading Rama II and gave up. After 80 pages they still hadn't reached Rama and were fiddling about with soap opera nonsense. Arthur C Clarke wrote hard science fiction. Gentry Lee wrote airport novels.
You're right it turns into sci-fantasy. I read them so long ago I can't remember the details. But I thought it kinda makes sense as a "scientific expedition". The first one is a probe, collecting mostly information about likely intelligent species. Hardly anyone actually reaches it, so it's mostly empty, and doesn't stay long. The second one collects samples and stowaways, so is a bit more habitable, and studies them more closely. The third one builds actual habitable areas en route and collects a viable population, an entire colony to study.
But I don't remember if it's ever explained "Why?"
Are the Ramans just curious, benevolent scientists who go around the galaxy collecting intelligent species in order to preserve the preciousness of intelligence, and introduce them to each other, so we can all learn to live in peace? That's the kinda hippy vibe I got from it.
I bet that was Clarke. He turned all hippy in his later years. Lee's books are very dry, impersonal, militaristic and tactical. He doesn't Human well. So I'm guessing Lee did the math, and Clarke did the characters.
Anyway, they're worth a read if you don't mind sci-fantasy and got nothing better to read ATM. Or you're a completionist. :)
I wish I had stopped after the first book. You are so right.
Now THAT is a critique!
Keep it up.
I agree wholeheartedly and honestly after reading Rama II and going into the background of these books to learn that Clark never intended to write any sequels (and didn’t actually have any involvement in Lee’s books beyond being used to bounce a few ideas off him) I actually reread the ending of Rendezvous and took it in an entirely different light. What originally felt like a cliffhanger to me read more as a simple statement on my return to it - a statement that “we’re likely to see 2 more of these ships and they’ll be just as disinterested in us as they were last time”.
The entire theme of the first book, as you rightly state, is that we’re just so insignificant and don’t feature in the plans of this advanced species. Clarke uses the metaphor of feeling like “ants crawling on the inside of a bottle” more than once to really drive this home. The idea that an author would turn around and make it all about us just totally misses the point…
The thing that bugged me about the sequels wasn’t what they changed, it was the fact that I contributed to a blatant money grab. I think the only think Clarke contributed to these books was the credibility of his name (which was pretty deteriorated after the first sequel).
Thank you for a well organized, substantiated and objective review. I loved the original so much. I have re read it regularly and still inspires a sense awe as the first time. But when I read the first sequel ... I felt cheated. Really hated the way it destroyed all the serene elation and mystery of the original.
To add my thoughts on the title question: I actually enjoyed the sequels. Yes, they have a different feeling in them than RwR, but I actually DO think they are really worth reading.
I don’t agree. I slogged through them and my conclusion was that Gentry Lee wanted to write a 90s soap opera in space and bastardised Clark’s original intent and message with the story. They’re absolutely dreadful and leave a bad taste in your mouth.
Thank you for the video. I listened to Rendezvous with RAMA on audio book. I have the book. It was pretty good. After reading the comments I don't think I'll continue the series - since - from what I understand Clarke wasn't involved too much with the rest of the series - did I get that right?
Anyway I'm moving on - some things are best kept original.
🤙
I've read the sequels: Rama II, The garden of Rama, and Rama Revealed. I'v read them time twice.
Awesome books.
I was hoping to see the movie.
Thank you.
I don't even have to watch the video to answer that question. Yes you should. They expand so much on the original novel. And then you should read Bright Messengers and Double Full Moon Night by Gentry Lee, a duology set within the same universe.
I have read both novels.
I became a hard fan of Clarke's stories since I was a teenager, I loved Rendezvous since the first pages. My expectations with Rama II were high and my disappointing with it (and the other two books) was also very, very high. I am still angry with the way Gentry Lee used Arthur Clarke for his own interests and corrupted a beautiful hard sci fi jewel and turned it into a boring soap opera... I read the three books waiting for something marvelous to happen, as is usual in Clarke's novels, but that never happened. There were only some bright glimpses of the ramans (which I would bet, were written by Clarke himself) but no more. Clarke should have written the stories alone...or not.
I read first Garden of Rama by chance, I din't even knew that it's a sequel, and I fully loved it, and still enjoyed the rest of the saga very much even disordered
great video thx im looking forward to another trippy sci fi story i’ve never heard of
Great clip. I stopped after 'Rama Revealed' because Rama wasn't actually revealed and I realized that Clarke's version is far and away the definitive vision. Publisher was just milking their consumers. Peace.
From where I have gotten to in Rama II (chapter 21 "Pandora's Cube") I have to agree with you.
Be nice if some animator would do Rendezvous as a serious animation. Altho modern CGI and green screening are getting pretty good!
Damn, you're spot on with this video. Great work.
I actually read "Rama II" first. Then I read the first book, which was much better. Then I attempted to read rest of the sequels. Attempt failed. Few weeks ago I read them in order, but by the 4/5 of "Garden of Rama" I switched to "Dream catcher" by Stephen King...
The proper Rama sequel should show humanity's attempt to get to the ship earlier, explore it in greater detail, and even try to get access to its computer or navigation system. In the end they would learn some secrets, but not the important stuff. The third book would follow the same pattern, with goal of obtaining the secrets of reactionless drive, and they would succeed, only to discover that Rama decided to not let them out, as this information is not for them. In my version of the story Rama ignores humanity the way we ignore ants...
Instead we got a character driven adventure with Mary Sue as protagonist and some weird vibes from the author. By that I mean an older man getting married to teenage girl because advanced alien species can't figure out artificial womb and genetic modification. And that pair are catholic. Coincidence? I don't think so...
Agree, the vibe of the first book is Rama is passing through on the way to something far more important than us
I thought it was good. 3 where left on the ship, they had kids went to the hub and met the eagle. Refitted the ship to take human colonies, met Aliens, went back to earth, picked up passengers. Humans being humans tried to kill everything. Made it back to the hub. Nichol chooses to die instead of being turned in to a robot. The end.
I read all the books in high school around 2001-2003. I loved the first book, still one of my favorites along with Dune 1 and 2.
I had no idea that Rama 2, 3, and 4 were all written much latter and mostly by Gentry Lee, but back then I had the suspicion.
I like the sequels but they aren’t as good as the original. The OG book is a masterpiece
I started reading Ramma II and felt that too, I finished it and then this video hit my algorithm. Thanks for the summary and your insights! Do you plan to talk about more sci-fi novels?
I read the first a long time ago. Didn't know there were squeals. I don't read a lot.... Michner's SPACE, Battlefield Earth 4 times, Star Ship Troopers
I really like your channel and the "theme" of it. Scifi is my thing! Keep up the good work!
If you're into hard science, Clarke (writing alone) can't be beat. I read Rama II all the way through, got about halfway thru the 3rd book and never finished it (luckily just borrowed it from a friend, was happy to return it), never bothered with subsequent books.
It's been 20 years since I read them, but remember having the exact same feeling, like it just didn't fit with the first book at all. But they were still descent enough that I read all of them. Definitely not HARD sci fi and much more focused on characters (which admittedly lacked in the original).
keep making this stuff, it's great
Can't wait to see you hit 333k subs.
Never explain the force, let their imagination come up with its own hypothesis.
Book one and done for me.
I agree that the sequels could not compare with the mystery and suspense of Rendezvous. I definitely prefer Clarke’s style over Lee’s. Also his story lines of personal relationships among crew members and eventually family members made the whole story kind of drag for me. But remember the builders of Rama also said they change Rama for whatever task they give it. Such as going back to earth to collect earthlings. I had hoped the sequel would be as much fun as the original, with or without the surprise ending and all, but the soap opera feelings I got from the characters kind of dulled it all down. It became a story about them and not about the amazing discoveries and new mysteries of the incredible interior world of an immense spaceship. And whoever told Nicole de Jardin she was always right? All in all I give the direct sequels a C+. At most a B-. Too much Gentry Lee and not enough Arthur C. Clarke.
I read the Rama series starting from the second book. I missed out on the first book. So I have a different take of the RAMA series.
Thank god I watched this before readin the second book.
I have bailed on Rama ll twice, because the second time finishing Rama i thought "it can't be as bad as i remember, or maybe it gets better", so much did Rama rev me up. I won't make that mistake a third time. Unlike the Ramans, i can forego doing everything in threes. I kill me.
Woah. There are many things in RwR that are not explained by common sense and known physics. It's not as bullet proof as many seem to think it is. Problems such as:
-The way the "gravity" works (essentially there's none unless you are standing on the interior, but Clarke seems to think there is some kind of diminishing gravity towards the spin axis in mid air).
-The atmosphere. Funnily enough completely breathable by humans. And what happens when the interior gets down to near absolute zero?
- All those lifeforms in the ocean. Yet nobody dies from alien bacteria and, v.v, Rama is not affected by the introduction of Earth bacteria.
- The stairs; how very anthropocentric (along with quite a few other things).
- The rather unrealistic trajectory across the inner solar system. Clarke seems to have made some effort to do a back of a fag packet calculation, but his timings are a factor of two out.
Ok, it's just a story and it's an interesting read, but it's certainly not as scientifically accurate as it could have been. Clarke does a lot better in some of his other stories.
There are other issues too - nobody takes any interest in magical materials that can survive asteroid impacts. They didn't even bother to take any samples. But that's another set of suspension of disbelief. 😄
The best part of of the sequels is the game based on Rama II.
Rama Revealed is great as a standalone... by itself, i get to engage in descriptive details of a giant ship and a conflict of humans and other alien colonies, but honestly, the exploration is what draws me, so having to imagine all the visual splendor in my head makes up for the political human stuff happening in the background...
It honestly was not central to my focus lol
The sequels, for the first time made feel like burning books.
Agree that RWR is great sci-fi, but the sequels are a totally different ballgame. Read 3 of them but felt they ruined the original story completely. Hope Villeneuve will only do RWR as a stand-alone adventure.
Answer to your thumbnail - Definitely.
I've read all the books of Rendevous with Rama l quite enjoyed them , l've also read most of the Ring World series , by David Niven
Kindly requesting you do a video on Rama revealed
Having just finished the full series for the first time (I had read RWR once before, but struggled to get through Rama 2 on initial reading), I can say that in a vacuum, the sequels are fine books, not great, but decent. But compared to the first book, they just suck.
Also, while I understand the context of them, Garden had some disgusting scenes that I’m shocked made it into the final novel.
Yes , nuff said !
The sequels are a lot like the TV show Lost before Lost was a thing. Lots of intrigue lots of mystery, bugger all resolution. It is obvious Gentry did the bulk of the work and Clarke was just padding his retirement fund
I listened to the audio book version of Rendezvous with Rama last week and it was great. I started listening to the 2nd book. The 2nd book is really annoying. Too much character development before they even get to rama 2.
Loved Rama, didn't even know there were sequels.
Having read the whole series, I can say the answer is no.
While I share the general dissatisfaction with the sequels, I have a completely different reason for it: While I love both Clarke's fiction and Lee's real-world engineering skills........NEITHER of them could write characterization worth a damn! Clarke's solo books didn't suffer much for it because Clarke didn't write much characterization (I'd guess that's because he knew he wasn't good at that aspect of writing, so he deliberately avoided it). So partnering with Lee for the sequels is puzzling because Lee is no improvement in that regard. Worse, the sequels have plenty of character moments, and they almost ALWAYS feel phony. Most obvious example: In Rama Revealed, when Richard Wakefield's daughter confides her drug addiction to him........does ANYBODY in the real world talk like that?!?
The short answer is YES read them all.
I have read most of Clark's books as with Asimov, both trained scientists and extraordinary imaginations considering the era in which they were born. The only comparable person of the same stature is H G Wells, also scientifically trained. Therefore it would take someone with equal insight to produce work of such quality. Sequels to Rama were unnecessary it is complete.
Wells was a journalist.
Thanks 4 this, you saved me several hours of disappointments.
I have a question. Do you think the sequels could have worked if Clarke decided to write them on his own?
Good question!
First, I think that mysteries are always more fun to think about than to have answered.
But I'm just like everyone else and wants to know the answers.
So even tho I think there would still be a lot of people feeling unsatisfied, Lee did the double damage of not just answering the mysteries in an unsatisfying way, he also ruined what made the original special, Which I really doubt Clarke would have done. So the readers feel both insulted and let down. "you liked how old rama was? Well that was actually not true. Its brand new. And btw, I'm gonna ignore your original questions while changing the story to make them not matter anyway" at least thats how I felt. lol
@@SciFiSecrets thanks for the response . However im struggling to find a way to have the series continue if it kept with Clarkes vision. For example, why would there be another Rama If the our solar system was not important to them?
@@isaacbourdeau3167 well that part is easy. "ramans do everything in 3's" So if they sent one ship to a destination, they would most likely send 3.
But the first part of your question is much harder.
Personally, this is how I think it would go.
The space christians that I can never remember the name of, would most likely have a large percentage of their religion get on the 3rd rama since they believe its an ark like in the bible, sent to save humanity.
They would bring a lot of stuff on rama obviously, but the most important thing they would have to do is discover how to control rama. Otherwise they will all freeze to death in the dark.
But if they could manage that, and figure out how to survive on rama, they have a very long trip on their hands.
Eventually they may even forget that they came from earth after many generations and believe that the inside of rama is the entire universe if they devolve badly enough.
Or they could find out how to control rama to the point where they would have rama MAKE a raman with new york. (or both, one society on either side of the sea)
making a raman could go a few ways also. Maybe they would have genetic memory, maybe not. Maybe they wouldn't know anything we didn't teach them, just like a human baby. Or maybe they grew up knowing everything.
the only problem I see, is that I cant see how it ends in any way other than them all dying when rama runs out of power eventually. Even if that is in a few thousand years.
Rama is clearly made to save energy on its long interstellar voyage, suck up energy from its destination sun, and use that to make the ramans. At least that seems to be the intent imo.
unless they use some kind of hibernation pods? but hundreds of thousands of years seem to make that impossible imo. The ramans would be doing it otherwise I would think.
...actually i just thought of a solution... Nuclear generators. They last thousands of years and as they die, the remaining uranium could be combined from 2 spent reactors to make a new one with the right tools. they could use them for heat while rama saves energy also. ...I'd have to look into it more to see if that is really possible but its an idea.
Still, I think it could be a both fun and tragic story. We get to know how rama works as they figure it out, and it ends with everyone dying... or not if something like the nuclear generators can last that long.
Ok, obviously you got me talking about something I've been thinking of. lol.
@@SciFiSecrets that is a very intriguing concept. Makes me convinced that someone should pick this series up again. BYW love the channel. I was really looking for someone who was talking about science fiction books. Thank you :)
@@isaacbourdeau3167 TY!
if rama was using tech like the alcubierre drive the ice would not experience the momentum. but yeah sounds like a cop out.
Most certainly! The sequels and supplements help make sense of the original. Highly recommended!
My opinion: Gentry Lee should never have been allowed to do any of the sequels. To me, they were ultimately silly. I read RWR when I was a kid, and re-read the original a few times, I'm 71 now and remember how awful the sequels were, and yes, I read all of them. Just embarrassing. Remember, this is my opinion, I am not a writer or literary critic, just a sci-fi pedestrian who loved R.with Rama very much. Why Clarke let him ruin his beautiful idea I'll never know. I felt silly reading all the sequels.
I dont know quite why, but i just love seeing older folk (65+) talk about how they read RwR "as a kid" and enjoyed it.
You Folks live through the "Golden era" of Science-fiction ...What a Time to Be Alive!!!! (Im jealous)
no
The third one got me disinterested.
Idk about the idea that the 3 ships were going to be the same. I feel like the ending of the first one was that there would be 3 ships but that they would have different unknown purposes.
I mean it sounds like the sequels is shit and not what I thought it should be.
Looks like Halo may have taken some inspiration from that.
No.
Yeah it doesn't seem like an in-depth treatment of the sequels is warranted.
I only made it through Garden and lost interest.
I first read Rama about a decade ago (with so many books to read, it just fell through the cracks in my collection), and loved it. I went out and got Rama II looking forward to more of Clark's "hard science" fiction.
I couldn't get through the first 50 pages!
With having some knowledge of how NASA picks astronauts I found every character introduced in those first 50 pages more like bad 1970's Soap Opera characters than mission professionals that they should have been.
And the writing style of Lee was just off-putting.
Rama II went up on my book shelf never to be touched until I traded it in at a used book store.
Are you kidding? They are different books. Read them all 3-4 times. Books are better than movies, everyone knows that!
Nope.
Aside from the fact that they are horribly, horribly written -- clunky, dull word-assemblages in stark contrast to the sparse elegance of Clarke's prose, and attempts at characterization that occasionally rise above the mush into juvenile stereotyping -- they take the whole multiplanet civilization that was the backdrop of Clarke's novel and stomp it into the ground for no good reason at all.
Though Rama is a great story let's move on. Maybe you can help me find a book I read in middle school. A race steals the Sun.
The sequals were awful.
Absolutely they are.
No
No.