Is Landmark Forum a cult?
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
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Rick Ross is an expert on cults who has led over 500 interventions to deprogram people, and help them get out of cults. He is also the founder and executive director of the Cult Education Institute.
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Oh man. I did "est" in 1982 because my whiny boyfriend (at the time) whined until I did it. It was $400, which was three months rent back then. Two weekends being locked in a huge conference room with several hundred strangers, no windows, no watches, no talking amongst yourselves...only one meal allowed a day, and they had a list of things you could and couldn't eat. Bathroom breaks only when they decided to let you go. Very very creepy, brainwashing and "reprogramming", lots of jargon and bs.
Fully 1/3 of it was training you in ways to get your friends and family into the cult, roleplaying reluctant friends and figuring out how to get them to come, because of course est was SO AMAZING AND LIFE-CHANGING that if you truly, truly love your family and friends you would want them to have this incredible experience. And they held this "secret" over your head the whole two weeks (Wednesday evening seminars before, after and between the two weekends) that they wouldn't reveal till the end, and they played a little game by saying (right before the big reveal) that you could get your money back and be allowed to leave if you didn't want to know the SECRET. Of course no one left because we are curious monkeys and sunk-cost fallacy.
So you are not supposed to tell the "secret" to anyone outside. Well, I'll tell you the "secret" and save you some money: you're a machine and you've been programmed by society and your family. And only with est can you break that programming. In other words, "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine".
Another awesome thing is that I moved four or five times after I did "est" and they tracked me down every time, calling me and sending me letters to try and get me back into the seminars and "training". They finally stopped when I threatened to take out a classified ad telling "the secret" to the greater Baltimore Washington area.
I have to say, going through that much garbage jargon training made me pretty much invulnerable to people trying to sell me anything that's crap. I can spout it right back at them and they Know I Know.
I'm with ya, been there, done that.
I'll tell ya what I really think: people who don't get creep/scam vibes from this kinda stuff are narcissists, and fall for the phoniness of it all and of course the fact that Landmarky kinda stuff is alllll about self-betterment/obsessing over oneself. They want to believe they're more evolved than others, somehow, or that they know something others don't. Not sure I'm articulating this properly, happy for additions from others...
@@meghanemilymurphy There's a lot of that, to be sure; soulless people who enjoy scamming vulnerable people and gaining power over them. Those were the leaders of the forums, the people guarding the doors (oh yes), the people in the cult. BUT. I also saw a lot of sad people who were desperate to find ways to fix their lives and this was one more attempt at that (at some expense). A lot of them had tried religion or drink or drugs or whatever to feel better in their own skins and didn't have the tools to see they were being scammed; it seems the ability to see that people are lying to your face while being charming isn't as common as it could be, and that a lot of people talk down the warnings their gut is sending them.
Everything you describe in your comment sounds exactly like Landmark Forum. Now Landmark allows bathroom breaks after EST was sued for causing people to become physically ill for not letting people leave the room. I never went to EST but did attend Landmark and was told Landmark is a “softer” version of EST.
@@meghanemilymurphy A friend of mine has repeatedly tried to get me to attend over the past 26 years. I'd gone to an evening gathering in London with her and I think it was a kind of dating night, but so long ago I don't remember anything other than getting creepy vibes from the whole situation. My friend is older than me, seems very intelligent, has had a very successful career but all her intimate relationships fail. In the time I've known her she's had relationships and marriages constantly falling apart even though she always raves about how great the Forum is for relationships. It's interesting you talk about narcissism because her exes often level that at her, and having flat shared with her for a year (I didn't have a name for it at the time, but now can see she does fit that description) I'd say she probably is. In spite of that I do enjoy her company in small doses. I admire her professional life and how she seems to relentlessly bounce back from broken hearts to live another day, we can have in depth conversations on an intellectual level but I always have some sense of fakeness that I can't put my finger on.
That fakeness came up again with a recent relationship I was in, something slightly off that I kept pushing to the back of my mind because he was charming and intelligent and we could talk for hours, and yup you guessed it, after 5 years of absolute bullshittery I'd say a classic narc. Anyhoo, Landmark, I'm glad I listened to my gut feeling on that one. My friend is still involved, and asked me again back in 2019 to do the Forum, I politely declined (again) saying it wasn't for me and then curious went googling and hey presto, I was right to be wary. It baffles me that someone can seem to be very intelligent and what's more, really tight and astute with money and still get taken in by this kind of thing. Intellectually I've always felt inferior to her so why can I smell bullshit a mile off but she can't...? Regarding the money, she really is squeaky tight and she is very comfortably off owning no less than three properties outright but is the least generous person I know along with the other narc I was unfortunate to cross paths with, and yet Landmark costs a pretty penny or two!. It amazes me that she has been spending money on it for decades. Eee, there's nowt as queer as folk!
Ah, now I understand why Landmark Forum is referred to as "Scientology Light!"
Just finished a LF. I was talked into it by my parents who did EST back in the 80s. I will say this, it 100% is shady and cult like, if not a full on cult. That being said, it did help people in the program reach out to loved ones who were estranged and I did get something from hearing the stories of the participants. It also gets you out of your comfort zone which is great for a lot of people. One guy I was moved by finally called his daughter he hadn't talked to in almost 6 years which is awesome! Then again followers of Jim Jones said he changed their lives, so who really knows. I personally didn't learn anything from the actual lessons being taught as I love studying religions, philosophy, epistemology, cults, and self help programs. It's a hybrid of shit from all over.
The shadiest part of the program is that it really made people vulnerable and reeled them in with constant marketing and promises of enlightenment. Even on the first day they were trying to sell you on more courses, and I was like, we barely even started this one! One weird thing is that they never mentioned Werner Erhard except in the very last minutes of the last day. The group leader thanked him for creating the program that became LF and had us clap for him. I had no idea who he was so I did some research and quickly realized that his real name is Jack Rosenberg (what is it with Jews changing their names?) Rosenberg has a shady past to say the least and participated in Scientology. I could see a lot of the people didn't actually understand what was being taught to them and were just sucked up into the whole experience. It was kind of sad because these were vulnerable people with traumatic pasts. If you want to hear some traumatic shit, or share some, go to AA or go to church. It's free and the people will be more honest and willing to help you personally, not just sell you shit. Just my honest opinion.
Did you get / produce anything out of it / since then?
Yep it sure is just a slapdash mix of things, some good but used in very harmful ways like encounter group therapy, which Carl Rogers was particularly concerned about and NLP (though NLP practitioners can.also be a bit suspect). Some of the other source material is just as shady and manipulative e.g. Napoleon Hill, Dale Carnegie,Mind Dynamics (a former LGAT cult Werner was a trainer in), and Scientology as you point out.All combined with the high pressure sales techniques Erhard learned as a used car salesman and door to door salesman.
Yes there's a reason why they don't talk much about Jack. I think he lives near me in Hampstead though I've not seen him, lord knows what I'd do if I did!! Possibly get arrested...
Have you read the Steven Pressman book about Werner Erhard? It's pretty insightful talks a lot about how much he stole from Scientology's 'technology' by recruiting an auditor.
@@priscillaeyles3301 I get where you’re coming from
You don’t have to do the forum,
Taking a step back
If you’re interested in a product or service
Sales person gives you a great deal and asks you to buy?
You say what you say
They say what they say
The interpretation of high pressure sales is valid
Know that this organization, that I don’t work for, is not attempting to pressure anyone in to taking it
Yes or no
No - okay, I request you keep an open mind
That’s not high pressure
Even asking you what you’re committed to in your life
They care and listen more than most people
They didn’t mean it to come off as pressure and I’m sorry you experienced it as pressure and it’s not fair for anyone to be pressured into anything
The forum is all about creating free choice in any area of your life that’s important to you so to force something one way or the other would be absolutely not what’s it is / life in general is all about
You didn't need to bring up Jewish people at all, especially since you said in the next sentence that he was shady. That's probably the reason he changed his name. Lots of people change their names, my sister did, and she isn't Jewish.
The reason they have you reach out to estranged friends and family is for recruitment. You mend the broken relationship and then tell them about this amazing seminar you just did…
They threaten to sue anyone who challenges their courses, had a friend who got involved and she spent a hell of a lot money on word salad courses and grooming her friends into taking the courses to the point I had to walk away from her.
You can challenge all you want you wouldn’t want anyone to defame you so if you defame them they have a right to sue
I ask tou to consider speaking to your friend again from what you want not what she wants What really matters to you, because that is a real friend that tried to get you a leg up and she came off like not what you wanted that’s not what this is
It's like an MLM. Beware of life coaches recommending these courses. At the end of a course, they will ask you to bring your friends with you. They wear you down and make you feel like you are fundamentally flawed by some random childhood experience. You will never stop needing to achieve enlightenment from these flaws of yours - you'll need to keep on paying and paying for courses to achieve a nirvana that doesn't exist. As one of the Scientologists in the Scientology/GoingClear documentary says, being told constantly that, whatever you do, you are never good enough sends you into a deep depression.
I had a personal trainer who tried to get me involved with landmark and I agreed to go to one meeting and could tell after the presentation the people were total liars who were so good at playing up their stories to the point of being in tears and full emotion. I could barely leave that building without hundreds of random people trying to shake my hand and get me to sign up. Luckily I got out of there safe and when I spoke to my personal trainer he had offered to pay the initial deposit that was maybe $150 but I’d have to pay the remaining $900 or so. When I told him I was not interested his tone completely changed and this person I once trusted and believed to be honest and respectful really showed his true colours by not respecting my decision.
Red flaggggssssss
If he is on steroids, that's already a red flag as a Personal trainer. For these people, lying and manipulating is normal to them. They justify bad behavior. They only care about short term progress and profits. All about appearances rather than long term fulfilment. By the time you realized you have been conned, they got what they wanted out of you. Usually money. This type of sales practice works for car salesman because you only see the customer maybe once in your life. The salesman are not your friend even tho they act like they are. Some people's entire personality are like this because they just don't understand the value of long term good relations. They only understand abuse and manipulation. If you look into their personal lives, they don't have true friendship or love. They don't know what that is. If it doesn't benefit them, they aren't friendly to you. Everything is all about them. Selfishness.
I've seen people pay thousands to this cult, adopt the jargon, give years of free hours and they still don't have a handle on their lives. At least they respected my request to not be subjected to hearing about their cult though.
I get it they sound different and spent money They are trying desperately to communicate with you and all we have is language I get how it comes across and I ask you to consider staying in touch with them and tell them what you want and ask how your could get that from three days and an evening for $795 Like I’ve been working on X for 20-years and you tel me I can have it in five days?? How? Because if you’re not engaged in at least be skeptical and open to it, the I’d say that you have an opinion about things that cost money or time and about how your parents didn’t do this so why should you it’s not what you think
I randomly searched for Landmark Forum again and I'm glad to see so many videos on it now after I lost my ex-girlfriend to it around 2016. My second-hand experience of watching it change a person is really scary. I thought I was going crazy for a while but after we broke up and I moved on I looked back and realized "yeah she got sucked up by a cult"
The Landmark Forum, like a lot of cults, reel you in with genuinely good surface-level advice. (i.e. speaking your mind, taking action). Where it goes wrong is isolating you from your friends and family and removing everyone else's perspective. My ex grew up poor with an abusive family. She didn't know how to stand up for herself. I was very patient with her and thought she was the one. Around 2015 her aunt roped her into the Landmark Forum in NYC. It was $600 at the time per month, I believe. Something like that. Keep in mind she was already poor and struggling to make ends meet and we also were at the stage in our relationship to plan living together. Not long after the first few sessions she entered a manic phase when she called up everyone she knew and told them how she really felt. She called up her ex at the time and told him everything that she thought was wrong about him but had held back during their break up. It FELT good at first. That's the thing. It's this promise of cathartic release that ropes people in. Everything fell apart when she asked me to join a session. I didn't feel okay because I was cautious about where this new attitude was going. She started to become a completely different person. When I expressed hesitancy, she said, verbatim, "If you don't go with me, then that tells me a lot about this relationship and how it won't work out." I asked her to elaborate and she said that Landmark told her that people who aren't willing to join you are not really going to go all out for you, and if you are going to be with someone with the rest of your life they would go all out for you. I was devastated. I asked her, "Is this really the one thing that is going to be in the way of our relationship? Giving an ultimatum over this doesn't seem very loving." I then pointed out how she was still having financial issues but was spending a whopping $600 on this. She flipped out on me. She said this was necessary and life-changing, and that me not wanting to go meant I was holding her back. I said I would support her in going and wouldn't judge her, but that it was just not for me. She then wanted to break up. I cried a lot that night because it was like a switch had flipped in her and she became very manic and had a falling out with our entire friend group. Nobody really hears from her except from what she posts on Instagram. I don't know if she still goes or not. I was with her for 7 years. I felt like she died. I think it fucked me up because I haven't been in a relationship since because I constantly worry if I did the right thing or if I was in the wrong or if I would ever fail to support someone in the future, and if I can't then what use am I? At what point would I fail in going all out for someone? What happens if I do? What does that say about me? Those questions have plagued me ever since that break-up.
Do you think your girlfriend was that naïve? I get your thoughts and opinions in the matter
I’ll ask you to consider that that was your outsiders perspective
You can be skeptical I ask you be open
I am sorry to hear you had such a traumatic experience.
I went for the Landmark forum recently (it is a 3-day online course now) and.. No I am not enroling/asking anyone to join. No, I am not going for anymore advanced courses. It is my choice. It seems to be completely opposite of the experience your ex had as if she went for a completely different course that isn't the landmark forum.
Yes, there is that 'transformation'. I understand it and I am now "free to be and free to act" (exactly what was taught/offered in the course) and there is nothing about isolating or removing oneself from reality.
When you mentioned your ex said to you "If you don't go with me, then that tells me a lot about this relationship and how it won't work out.".. There was absolutely nothing of the sort being taught during my 3-days course. In fact, it was discouraged by the course leader to enrol anyone by manipulation or considerations. What your ex did, is the complete opposite of what was taught.
So my guess is.. either she:
1) Did not understand what was taught, completely twisted the meaning and came up with her own story
or
2) What was taught at that forum back in 2016 is completely different from what I was taught today in 2023.
Imho you did the right thing. Please stop beating yourself up over that one decision you made in your relationship. I understand the hurt was very deep, but you followed your instincts perfectly. I don't really know what else to say, advice wise other than I hope you find peace. You deserve that.
Thank you for sharing. People with real hard traumas are the ones they easily trap.
There’s no wrong path Zack. Strengthen yourself to go out & have an intention to find someone new. Like really think about her, what do you want her to be like, mentally, physically etc. then talk about that person to a friend speak it out in detail. With a day or months she’ll somehow appear in your life.
I’m sorry that happened to you man sincerely bro.
i lost my long term partner to it. I'm still mortified . He was just too naive :( . I felt i was going mad too.
I know someone who has been deep in Landmark for about 15 years. She works for them without pay. As far as I can tell her life isn't any better since she is still obese, mooches off her parents, suffers from depression and has never really had a significant romantic relationship.
whoa....sounds like her "ACT" is LOVE ME< LIKE ME> ACCEPT ME...she is getting something out of it.
She's in deep.
No need to be mean.
Does she still? I wouldn’t be surprised if she is up to something new some people have more to deal with than others
I agree that landmark is horrible but making fun of someone due to their weight and other hard things about their life really sucks.
@KD--sj8eo why is that mean?
Landmark is trash 🗑. I went and never fell for it. Everyone else went up and sharer everything and signed up for more and more courses
If they threaten you if you leave, than it is a cult.
Any body can leave the room whenever they want, and, the person standing inside the door want’s to ask you a question, so that _you_ will question, what conversation happening in the room right now, is prompting you to leave? There is another person outside the door to stop any non-participant from coming _in_ the room, unless they are a fire marshal. (I used to run the room.)
I was forced to go to an intro session by a former employer as a condition of my continued employment so that we'd have a 'common language'.
I bet your former employer did not enjoy you "calling him/her on his/her shit" which is a big part of this cult.
@@devilkitty6725 she was misguided at the time but we worked it out.
My former employer wasn't too thrilled when I came back from the weekend he paid for and quit my job to go back to school because suddenly everything was possible.
I’m sorry you felt forced into this it’s not fair, that wasn’t the intention
It seems like a lot of people don’t take time to find out what people really want and just tell them that they have to do this thing because they know that it’s gonna be better for them in the long run
The way it’s designed the forum is meant to accomplish things that you want in your own life not that someone else wants for you
If you’re not taking it or going there for you, it sounds like you’re there for the wrong reasons Or rather reasons that are going to benefit you in anyway like why sit through some thing if you’re doing it for somebody else
If you’re up to something in your life and you’re out to accomplish some thing and you want a different better relationship with someone well then you’re doing it for a reason but if you’re doing it for someone else then that doesn’t make any sense
@@annieoccident4459Prerty awesome
I knew my ex boss before she became involved in LM and she is a totally different person now, and someone i choose not to have in my life!! I do not understand how people can say they have good ideas and concepts... anyone knows what they tell you for hundreds of dollars, and then there is all of the manipulation, short breaks, lack of food, long hours ( i believe it was 9-7) then they send you back to your room with homework to do that night! It was horrible!! They even monitor your trips to the bathroom!! It is just ludicrous, and I have a brain, and do not need anything like Landmark!!!
I was invited to sit in on an introduction last night via Zoom. The control of even making you keep your camera on was so uncomfortable. It felt like they purposefully have a watch keeper. Definitely knew this wasn't for me.
Glad you realized it's not for you. I took the course. It's beyond controlling and just plain weird.
About 9 years ago, someone tried to get me to do the Landmark Forum and I had absolutely no interest. Then about a year later, my estranged ex-husband phoned me out of the blue (I thought one of our children must be dead! He had not spoken to me in over 10 years before that!) and he mentioned the Landmark Forum too, and said it was because of Landmark that he was phoning me. Not again, I thought. And I felt suspicious that my ex-husband's sudden out of the blue call was not a genuine desire to connect with me.
Wrong! It is now 8 years later and my ex-husband and I have been really great friends that whole time. When I realized it wasn't just a cult thing (after a couple of years!), I did the Landmark Forum myself. Although I have criticisms of it (nothing to do with the crazy "it's a cult" nonsense), it remains to this day by far the most life-enhancing thing I have ever done, especially in terms of mending broken relationships and resolving the procrastination that was interfering with my work. I found it totally empowering - it blew out of the water my habit of resigning myself to things I didn't like - it showed me that things I thought I couldn't ever do, I could do and now have done. It blew my powerlessness out of the water. It freed me from feeling like a victim of my circumstances. This is huge for me!
I don't understand why people think it's a cult. Don't cults try to isolate you from your family and make you do what THEY want? That is like the opposite of my experience of the Landmark Forum. I am so grateful to the Landmark Forum for what it did for me and continues doing for me long after I did the course.
Cult member detected
This was my experience too. Thank you for writing it.
I'll never forget on day 3 of doing the Forum, the leader stated "New Zealand has the highest percentage of its population in the world to complete our program, and that's why it's such a well adjusted country."
Talk about grand claims without evidence!
This is hilarious because the friend who tried to recruit me met her boyfriend (who was a complete and total mess - cheater, alcoholic, loser) in Forum, and he was from New Zealand.
@@meghanemilymurphy do you think the Forum improved their lives, or made it worse? I personally hated it, and think they’re a shady organisation, but I’m open to the idea that there’s a small number of people who are so broken that their approach could potentially work. It’s very much playing with fire though and I’d never recommend it.
Side note, after the beginner course I had to tell them multiple times to stop contacting me, and it wasn’t until I threatened them with a restraining order that they got the message.
@@NickKano11 neither. I think they were seeking religion/meaning. I think when people have an empty hole inside they need to fill it themselves, through action and change, not by seeking out cults/self-help crap/religion. The hole will never be filled if you don't do it yourself.
I can test to the threat of lawsuit by their attorney. They are definitely a cult.
Culty office space seminars.
Cults are what’s cults are, this is not a cult
I hate this place! They made me believe and think it wasnt a cult when now i know after giving them so many years of my life to them that they are most definitely a cult!
I did Landmark Forum about 25 years ago. They have good ideas and good concepts but all the positives are erased when they pressure you to recruit new people and sign up for the subsequent class. I would say about 30 percent of the time is spent convincing you to recruit others and sign up for the next class. You will find “graduates” doing a lot of work at each class for no pay. The volunteers also add to the cult-like feeling. Almost everyone else I met through Landmark eventually quit and got sick of all the heavy pressure to recruit, the lingo, etc. What this guy says in this video is true…Landmark does not produce lifelong results. And it would never, ever make into a professional peer-reviewed journal. Personally, I may stuck with it had they not put so much pressure to recruit others and take next course.
Yeah I gotcha that’s not the intention
At the same time if you had a friend addicted to drugs you do anything
Sounds like you’re making a bigger deal out of them wanting you to talk to people then out of what results you’ve produced in the last 25 years, they may not of happened if you were an opinionated or egotistical
@@HermeticSuperstars You sound like a Landmark Forum “grad.” Glad it works for you. And you are right that Landmark Forum works with addicts just like high demand religions and other cults also work with addicts. Addicts are able to move their addiction from a drug of choice to another addiction that may or may not be as harmful. I too know someone who was a coke addict and stopped after Landmark Forum. I also know people were addicts and stopped after joining Scientology and other fundamental religions. There is nothing wrong with high demand religions or things like Landmark Forum or Scientology if the new addiction is better than the first addiction. Personallly I don’t like the hard sell tactics Landmark uses. People spend a lot of money for their sessions yet about 20 percent of the time is spent asking people to recruit more people. Everyone I know of who went through Landmark eventually burn out from it
@@lizhoward9754 I do understand what you’re saying when I use the addict example as specifically referring to people that don’t know that their subconscious is in their way Or that we collapse things that happen in life with how with what we make them mean
Did all the people you know burn out from Landmark or did they just take enough courses to get what they really wanted out of life?
I get how it occurs to people as a hard sell
After having a 15 year friend that said no originally and then chose to do it, our relationship is completely changed there’s barely any arguments anymore
So while it could occur as a hard sell, is that just an occurrence?
There’s probably someone in your life they could really use this, so what you interpret as a hard sell isn’t for you it’s for that other person
I know three people who all got into Landmark about 15 years ago. Subsequently, they then spent 25% of the time telling me that it wasn't a cult and the other 75% trying to get me to go to a free introductory seminar, because I had so many problems with my life! Hilarious.
I really hope this landmark cult gets exposed!
I got bipolar disorder shortly after being in landmark. I was there for a year straight and literally lived there for that year and did course after course after course and basically worked for them for free for 6 months. I recruited 12 people during those 6 months I worked for them. Meanwhile I thought I was “improving” myself by being able to persuade others powerfully… I don’t know if landmarl directly caused me getting bi polar or if I was going to get bi polar anyways but I can tell you landmark stressed me out in so many ways it’s hard to describe and that perhaps induced my bi polar to start
Sorry to hear that.
Even though I agree with some things these Destiny fans are saying, their way of criticizing you is a bit harsh and unhelpful. But for me I'll say that after watching the debate you had with Destiny, it became clear as to why you were dodging his line of questioning. Destiny's questions were purely a practice of deductive logic. And if you were truly confident in your stance on the subject being grounded in logic, you would have engaged with his line of questioning. But instead you tried to dance around it as a slick way of getting out of challenging yourself.
You clearly have held this belief for years and have become married to your ideas. You demonstrated that you are more concerned about how you feel, rather than what's real.
I went to my Brothers Graduation. Then to my Dads graduation as well. I love em both, but they were on either side of me pressuring me to buy into it. They both fizzled out on the whole thing a few months later. Fortunately!
Yeah I feel like the pressuring part should be an automatic red flag for anyone... The fact everyone involved is tasked with pressuring everyone around them to join (and does so) is creepy.
I was briefly involved with Landmark (Forum, Advanced course - in Vancouver and only one seminar).I volunteered for a Forum and we were treated like slaves. That's when I saw the man behind the curtain and left that night. They just want money and Erhard stole a lot from Scientology. As their motto goes Landmark is "empty and meaningless".
I’m sorry you felt like you were treated like a slave, that wasn’t fair for you, I’m sure it was what it was That’s not a motto that’s existentialism
If you think this is about the money, it’s not
You must’ve produced some sort of result
Do you think it’s all about money, or that they’re true believers?
@@NickKano11 neither. “True believer” A strict follower of a doctrine. One who believes dogmatically in something regardless of evidence or even conclusive proof that the thing is false or was staged; one who has true-believer syndrome.
Landmark education has no doctrine no dogma, nothing is false or staged
I don’t work for them haven’t taken a course in years
All landmark discusses is knowledge that’s thousands of years old
Some people go to another country and achieve enlightenment
Most people Learn some disturbing things about themselves, then they learn some thing encouraging about themselves then they learn something very profound about themselves
It’s not that your friend or family member that spoke to you about it knows some thing that they think you need to know, it’s that you know some thing that if you knew you knew it it would dramatically enhance the quality of your life
One example is the pervasive influence over the past in that many things that human beings do is based on their thoughts and opinions from the past
Where is before I may have jumped to conclusions, now I’m able to see things as new
The company is owned by its employees, I don’t know any businesses where the employees on a piece of the company I believe pretty quickly
Their money spent in for Ways
Staff
Telecommunications
Travel
Office space/materials well if you went to an office, you may find a printed syllabus, the syllabus is also completely for free online and if you did enough research you could find the source of all of their work comes from Heidegger existentialism Buddhism
It’s great deal to have someone else read all of the history‘s written texts pull out what’s most effective for human beings, and then sell it at a very reasonable price
I know people that have spent 10+ years on enlightenment and have not achieved enlightenment
I would’ve paid a lot more than $795 for the forum and $895 for the advanced courseto achieve enlightenment
I cannot put a price on my happiness, my health, my marriage, my relationship with my son, my relationship with my parents, I can’t put a price on it
Maybe I would’ve achieved all these things, without the form, but looking at this on my friends I don’t have this work yet, I think I would’ve been a wreck at this point in my life had I not done it at 22
A lot of my friends at 40 years old are asking all the same questions about how they can have work, income while having their happiness and freedom they think they’re sacrificing their happiness and their freedom for a temporary hard work or something it’s unreal I work hard and I have a blast moment by moment, that’s not to say that things don’t happen and I have to deal with them
It seems as though I deal with problems and issues with grace and ease and speed without suffering, hemming and hawing
I’m not saying that everyone or you do that
I’m just saying there’s lots written in books, taking action is different
“Be the change you wish to see” bhudda?
@@HermeticSuperstars Not sure what it was like when you did it, but the leader of my session came across as a true believer. Reminded me very strongly of some of the worst religious fanatics I've met.
So he was either a fanatic or the best salesperson I've ever seen.
yea, they’re only discussing things that most human beings deal with
If people want happiness, freedom, enlightenment, it’s really no longer a sales process it’s you want it I have some stuff that could point you into a direction to get it
It only takes an instant, it happens over the course of the three days with discussions like the one below
sales is really just speaking with people
It’s called the pervasive influence of the past we’re constantly as humans comparing to other things
Person speaking at the front with a crowd full of people listening reminds us of religious experiences
With this in mind I got to see that I jumped the gun and assumed things
Like I always thought my mom was trying to nag me until I told her that I think that that’s ridiculous
Now each and every conversation is like I never knew it before she could say I’m your mom and I guess I didn’t know that it’s a new way to look at things approaching things is new all the time every moment by moment The Buddhists talk about bringing beginners’ mind
I think it would be a good idea to interview someone who has actually attended and completed The Landmark course. The comments all seem to be from the outside, or a barely scratched surface looking in.
Well I literally just did the forum and it was complete garbage, the comments were true the “secret” of life is you’re machines programmed by society or your past so to be free you need to go watch the matrix movie so you can be Leo with limitless possibilities, that’s literally all , since it’s so life changing you have to ask everyone you know to take the course for only $800 ❤️
@@fifiapollo I'm glad you commented cuz I was thinking about going recently since someone recommended that I try it about six years ago. I know some people seem really bettered by it and not everyone seems crazy who comes out of it changed. I just wanted to know if I would get my money's worth.
I did it years ago and found it to be a lot of cultish, controlling nonsense. Very controlling. Controlling toilet breaks. Keeping you in a room for ridiculously long days. Pressuring you to phone people from the past etc. A bunch of wolves in sheeps clothing after your money/time. A multi level marketing scheme pressuring you to recruit others. So many red flags it is ridiculous
@@eja1258You sure can get your money’s worth! The forum let’s you and others break apart and analyze what comprises ones ontology. Then, you can make choices for yourself as to how you use those components. You can see and learn from other people what they do (and help).
Sorry in advance about the length of this post but am just so so excited to see more people talking about how abusive Landmark is on here finally!!
Thanks so much for posting about Landmark and naming them as they cult they are! Sooo many media platforms seem too scared to go there because of them being seen as so legally litigous (althou as I detail below having written and talked about them extensively as a cult, they dropped the ball with me! and I just dare them to bring me to court...). But it takes outspoken advocates like yourself and the inspirational Rick Ross, to break that barrier of fear and for there to be a tipping point as there was with Scientology and after South Park revealed their abuses etc.
I am survivor of Landmark's pyramid scheme-style programs having particapted for 5 years (2009-2014) and having completed senior programs like their Coaching Program (which just teaches you how to be an enslaved telemarketer for Landmark, all in the name of your transformation of course!) and am now doing all I possibly can to continually educate people about how dangerous and manipulative LGATs like Landmark are. Because to people who don't know about cults and cult dynamics, they may seem benign, or just like some American entreprenurial self-development thing like Tony Robbins, which is btw also def a cult to me!
So I write and talk as much as I can about them to expose them. As such to date I have written extensively on Quora about the abuses of Landmark and one of my first posts on Landmark being a cult has to date reached 13k views🥳🥳: www.quora.com/Is-the-Landmark-Forum-a-cult/answer/Priscilla-Eyles
I've also appeared on podcasts such as On Belief talking about the links of neurodivergent people and getting enmeshed in cults like Landmark and One Taste: onbelief.fireside.fm/318
As well as talking at the International Cultic Studies Association and other awareness raising events about my intersectional and neurodivergent perspective as a cult survivor of Landmark, all viewable in the portfolio section of my LinkedIn page: www.linkedin.com/in/priscillaeyles/?originalSubdomain=uk.
So in short also if you ever wanted to talk to someone as a cult survivor of Landmark and One Taste, then I am happy to be of service! :)
Thanks for all you do and so much solidarity! And thank you @RickRoss for being such a shining example of someone who truly is ruled by their 'integrity' unlike Landmark, and refuses to be cowed down by their aggressive legal harassment. I can't even imagine what it's like to have PI's going through your trash trying to dig up dirt on you and bankrupting you, abusive and disgusting behaviour which really shows their true narcy colours. Thanks for really inspiring me to be the advocate I am today! Much love.
💪💪💪💞💞💞
Wow, I’m really sorry you had this experience
It sounds like you have quite the story to tell
It seems like you got some kind of a result from 2009 - 2010 to continue the following four years
I take it you realized it didn’t have integrity to keep participating at the level that you were
Yeah if you agree to agreement after agreement I could see how you could fee taken advantage of
I accept responsibility on behalf of landmark, I don’t work there
That wasn’t fair that you get sucked in and pressured to continue that was never the intention
Can you forgive that experience happened?
Because I had a similar and I got on the phone with them and had a conversation for completion
I was then left free
You can’t tell me 2009 - 2010 nothing happened that was extraordinary
It’s easy to get carried away I ask you to consider that you got carried away They didn’t do something to you
You chose it and now you are holding a grudge and that can’t benefit people
Grudges on further disputes
If you’re want the world to continue to go the way it’s been going keep fighting landmark
I’m pretty sure there’s other things that matter more
And they’re doing things very different now
@@HermeticSuperstars Hi there please don't gaslight me or trivialise my experience. You've never met me, you don't know me or what I experienced so don't presume to make sense of my experience for me using Landmark ideology thank you. That's extremely presumptive and I didn't consent to that.
Again to me this just seems another example of Landmark ideology surpassing human empathy and concern and turning to trusty old victim blaming, to conveniently not allow Landmark to have any responsibility for their abusive and dangerous behaviour and policies.
I shall remain having 'grudges' that people are harmed, manipulated, verbally and financially abused and even killed continually by this manipulative cult, of course I will!
Just because you felt complete by one conversation, where they probably sold you some story you're telling me now about you weren't being in integrity and that's why you had those results (how convenient) etc or offered you some hush money. As they've done with countless others (hence a lot of people not speaking out, that and fear of aggressive legal repercussions) doesn't mean you can project your illogical feelings about Landmark's complete lack of responsibility onto me.
And to the contrary I have had a lot of feedback about how much sharing my experience has helped others who've been harmed by cults and Landmark. So I shall continue to help people and spreading the word and if you want to have a 'grudge' about that that's your lookout.
But I'm all good and very much 'complete' about that, trying to get 'complete' with them is like going to an uncle who sexually abused you and expecting to get closure from explaining the harm they did (it's also what they've historically made Forum participants do, speak to former abusers btw as homework to repair 'broken relationships' which is just so messed up on so many levels), they know full well the harm they're doing it's part of their business model. Have a look on Rick Ross' website and forum of you don't believe me (there's a very good reason they constantly try to malign him and the work he's done to support Landmark survivors like me)Thanks for your disingenuous 'concern' anyway lol, but I'm great as I am ta. ☺️👌🏽
@@priscillaeyles3301 right that’s why I said I accept responsibility on behalf of landmark
That’s not okay for you or anyone
I’m just curious as you said, “I’m complete”, and “trying to get complete with them”
Also I think a lot has changed the power of simply writing a letter can be extremely powerful
I ask anyone you know to get it complete, like totally
You’re telling me that you can’t get complete with them
All they do is complete incomplete things,
It also looks like you are quite successful in your life I just thought I’d point out that a lot of things seem to be working in your life
If 95% of people say it works, and some people are saying on the internet that they were harmed - I just sounds a bit luck just call landmark or send an email
Your letter maybe totally different
This is personal to how I was about ten years ago
Dear Landmark, I felt taken advantage of because I got so engaged in self development I wasn’t focused on my own health, business, finances, etc. I wish someone had said, “Lee, wake up, you can do self development when you have your finances and health and business in order” No body did that I made a mistake and I give up any resentment or regret towards the forum and I’m going to make something great happen on this planet (I’m not sure what you’re up to today)
What questions, specifically, did #Destiny ask you that were out of line? 🤔
None, shes just pathetic.
I completed the Landmark Forum, which is 3 courses, back in 2020, from right before the pandemic started, through the early days.
I only found the second evening of the first course to be effective. It was due to this creepy almost meditation like session where the entire room closed their eyes and listened to the instructor tell you the lie that you believe about yourself, that everyone in the world looks down at you and laughs at you etc, and they tell you to laugh off that ridiculous idea...It was a strangely cathartic session. Many people started crying, some screaming. It was weird and creepy but oddly cathartic.
Fortunately, however, I never did any of the courses after the forum. Declined to sign up to be an instructor, and have ignored all their calls and they gave up on me. I dont regret the experience, but I also dont recommend it to anyone. And I never plan to attend another course with them.
Back in the early 70’s a member of my family attended. She became ruthlessly verbally cruel as if she gained permission! But this est was secret and attendees couldn’t talk about it. I was a young teen and was shocked by her behavior. It’s like her dark negative side gained permission bcuz how her behavior affected others was NOT HER PROBLEM
Thank you for this discussion!
I found the landmark Forum quite enjoyable. I participated in their program for five or six years and found it useful. I completed my time with them and moved on in my career. A couple of times, I have gone back and reviewed the course. It does share certain culty aspects, but overall, this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. When I was ready to move on, I moved on.
I did the forum and several more courses after. It made a huge positive difference in my life. Anyone can look at something from the outside and criticize it. I had the courage to do it (it is confronting) and became a fan. It's not perfect but then neither are you and I. If you think you are a victim of life or your parents or _________. I highly recommend it.
You should post the Destiny debate on your own channel.
Cults prey on the weak of mind and spirit. As do religion and the state.
This does none of that is actually allowed me and gave me the power to stand up for myself and get out of an abusive relationship that I was in When I saw the absurdity of opinions and right and wrong, and if the other person doesn’t want to see that well then I’m actually harming myself by staying in the relationship Now I’m free from relationship, and Emma million times out of here
I would offer you, that Religion does not prey on the weak, but attracts the strong, as it demands the character to build discipline in yourself to resist the bad, which can lead to a better, more forgiving, more loving, and fruitful life, and care less about the material.
when can we hope to see this full interview please?
OMG. I went to a intro Landmark Forum class through a family friend. HIGHLY charismatic
They are PUSHY, man. Lucky for me I get turned off when people get pushy or I feel like people are trying to sell me something, rather than the other way around...
I found them to be very crazy with the coerced persuasion very annoying and irritating, and non stop phone calls of over the top friendly people who are nothing but a bunch of fake people as well as so highly up themselves nothing is real about them
I'm a Landmark grad. Doing the Forum has had an immense impact on the quality of my life. I was actually upset to find out people I interacted with had done the Forum and never told me about it....
Glad it worked out for you, maybe you didn’t have much to deal with or maybe you did. As they are saying, measure that training has been effective for you or not.
I can categorically tell you that what they are saying in this video is absolutely true. Landmark has caused a complete destruction in my life personally. I am still dealing with the aftermath.
Take therapy, join yoga, build morning routines. Do the obvious. All of this is better than being fooled by landmark.
Or maybe this person is just a shill...
They did a lot of damage to me too I went back to therapy because of how they made me feel in day 3 because I refused to take part in any of the assignments and homework bullshit
What about the trans cult?
This is an interesting clip, I can’t wait for the whole interview. I hope this comment helps.
I swear, if anyone you know or meet says you should come to this meeting called Landmark run. I went to one intro meeting. Worst experience I've ever had. These people are totally nuts.
Agree
Is nuts the clinical term? What evidence do you have?
They completely ruined my sister. Her personality completely changed and not for the better. I believe they actually are a cult.
Oh wow, I would have totally forgotten the name of this group if it were not for this video. I went to a ŕecruitment rally for Landmark years ago with an extremely well-meaning and lovely roommate. I think it was just a small step in his journey of seeking meaning, and it was entertaining/interesting for me.
I can understand how one could get seriously caught up in it, though (unfortunately)!
Yeah I feel like a lot of people are seeking religion, but aren't religious, so find this, or AA (which totally works for some people, which is great, but some others I find get really religious about the whole thing), or maybe activism/a political movement, etc.
Had a friend do LF weekend ‘class’ 30 yrs ago. She could not stop talking about it and made us go to her ‘graduation’
Hubby and I looked at each other and mouthed the words ‘cult.’
I can understand how you could be skeptical I’d say to completely write it off isn’t as open minded as I’m sure you really are at heart I don’t think you’d consider yourself a closed minded person Because this isn’t what you think your Roomate was trying to share something with you to benefit you and if you can’t be okay with others benefiting for you to benefit I think you want to look in the mirror and have a real conversation with yourself
Came here after i watched the twin flame documentary on Netflix. It reminded me a lot of The Landmark Forum. I went to their weekend session and i think something off witn that organization
Pretty sure that there was a comic strip, the Fusco Brothers, they talked about Werner Airhose.
They brought me close to my family- so if you consider this a cult I'm all for it.
-Put my moms dealth to rest
-got a raise at work
-got my dad in my life
-fell in love for the first time
-best friend and I worked things out
-found out I had a brother that was afopted out side of our family. Etc
FYI Harvard did a case study on them.
That's great, but sorry to say this is not the end of your journey.
Landmark "brought" my bio father into my life, and sure I can be thankful for some of the experiences we had. But I also realize how those courses (and other similar material he obsesses over) contribute to his inability to express his emotions in a healthy way.
There's always some flaw to fix, something in our past we haven't moved on from, someone else in our life to convince that they too, need guidance from Landmark. And that is the kicker. The selling point is that Landmark will help you and your loved ones when in reality, most of not all of the advice found at a seminar can be found on a bookshelf, from observing an interaction between other human beings, from simply enjoying the time and company of your friends and family.
Have you heard about Choice Center in Las Vegas? Its also another Landmark-EST type cult.
I have not!
@@meghanemilymurphy Several of my colleagues have gone and my wife even went for the first 2 days before she felt that it was too much for her. They use all of the same general principles as all of the other early human potential movement groups.
@@rayfranklin5783Thank you for sharing.
The forum is unlike any of this it is like nothing you’ve ever done
This is incorrect they did a study with Dan Yankovic A pollster for CNN
What's an NFT
Nonfungible token
I got a lot out of the Landmark Forum course and the Advanced Course. When they got annoying, I quit.
Parent Allienation is a start of a family cult of one
thanks for this video. !
You can be skeptical, be open it’s not this
I haven’t watched your full video but if you are just being outsider from Landmark then it will be just running business model but if you are a participant then it will be definitely a life changer or transformation within yourself.
While on other side we normal human consider doctors as a god while they are also doing their business through hospitals, isn’t that strange!
Meghan would you ever do an interview with Ramzpaul? He would be very sympathetic to your viewpoint. He has that twitter handle, and that at gmail email address. I am sure he could accomodate your schedule and appear with you here or have you on his show and channel
I don't know who that is?
@@meghanemilymurphy He has a You-tube and Rumble channel by that same name. He used to do anti feminist videos, but also does not like when internet misogyny goes too far. All around I think you would find him interesting.
@@meghanemilymurphyYou totally should! RamZPaul is a RUclipsr on the right, and he was one of the first people I saw to really speak out against covid lockdowns. I think it would be a really interesting conversation and I think he'd be glad to have you on his show!
@@MechaWingZero Meghan he would be the best guy for you, because he reaches an audience receptive to your message, but just needs to hear a different voice with it. A voice it rarely gets to hear.
@@kmacksmcdonald6475 oh ok cool i'll look him up thank you!
i remember reading about some connection between Lululemon and landmark at one time. don't know if that's still a thing.
I forgot about that!! Makes sense a bit as Chip is prolly a narcissist...
Yes lulu is owned by people who see this as a massive benefit to the workplace
Seems like the issue comes in when people aren’t taking it for themselves, you have to want to get something in your own life to not feel forced into this but if you’re forced into this role she can’t work at the company well that’s when it becomes an issue
Who’s issue? If one feels forced, it’s helpful to vocalize that you feel forced, so that we can deal with it that this isn’t about forcing anything This is about things working for everyone If one feels forced then that’s not everyone
Super interesting conversation. I personally got a great deal from Landmark, but the cult like similarities are real. Pointing out the cultish tactics of Landmark is far less important than the larger problem that we as humans are all just trained primates. Whether someone believes in the Abrahamic deities or that they have created " a possibility for themselves by their participation in the Landmark Forum" makes no difference. There is really good information and work in the Forum and there is real garbage in the Bible, yet 50% of Americans claim the Bible is true. I would suggest to anyone that is curious indeed take the Forum, know that the hard sell and recruitment tactics are coming, and you are "at choice" to spread the word or not. Merely being "a stand" for yourself under pressure is good work in itself.
Yep.
Be as skeptical as you want, be open
I almost went to one of these. It was right around the time the nxivm cult got exposed, and I immediately saw the resemblance
Cults are what cults are this is not a cult for so many reasons
I did Landmark in 93 was absolutely amazing and i was able to crush many goals every year...its the best thing you can do
Yes.
Go ahead and be skeptical, I ask you to consider to be open as well
September smith
I don’t need a research paper to go and choose for myself .
There’s lots of studies that show people are more productive afterwards
Sounds like this is more about Nexium than Landmark
It’s not about feelings
It’s not manipulation
Why don’t you do a scientific study?
They aren’t in the science business
They’re in the training and development business
It’s not like you don’t have to do the work while you’re there
I had to work out in my mind how things happen in life and as humans we make it mean something When I got my head around this I immediately called my mom and gave to a 10 year grudge That is indescribable how I left the forum free to take actions instead of time and energy I was spending on making my mom out to be a nag
It's a load of (inset your favourite unmentionable word here), I did it years ago but thankfully I have always been full of a healthy dose of skepticism and one of the least likely personalities to get sucked into a cult so I ran very fast. The first massive red flag was trying to control toilet breaks. As a young girl with endometriosis and terrible period pains and needing the bathroom I sat there thinking- how dare they, I am absolutely not playing this nonsense game. See ya later!!!!
When did you take it? Did you not finish the weekend? For the bathroom issues if I may, look up your symptoms and "carnivore diet". Processed foods and prescription medicine may be inhibiting you from healing. They're very clear about the whole bathroom thing. No one is trying to control anything. They just say, we have bathroom breaks, meal breaks, you paid for this. If it's not the right time to be there fully, maybe reschedule for a later date. If you didn't complete the weekend I ask you don't comment as there's two sides to a coin. There's actually lots of sides.
@@HermeticSuperstarsexactly. That lady is a whiny victim and projects her victimhood onto others.
Not a whiny victim. Everything is valid, and worthy of acknowledgement. That's not what it's about. It's about a benefit to playing a victim card and the freedom that comes with letting the past be in the past.
@@HermeticSuperstars not everything is valid. You took it too far. You already know this. Whatever I make myself a victim of, I had a part in. If I look for that instead of how I was wronged I am immediately free.
Power full
Keyword teaching course of control
Keyword pretzel alienation
These are all very distinct groups Did you do EST in the 70s? Things were different then that’s not the way it is today
7:07 coercive persuasion
One srider pain told me to attend landmark few years back so I was attending for 10 days from first day onwards that land mark education person talking about only sexual subject and I was clearly told them clearly I mension I need money even in the form but till today they hack through mob sending lot of unwanted things and they send one rahula from apartment he was talking only on sexual ma tar
I was asking something but this hijadas are doing something this is totally nonsense
Thanks for sharing your incoherence.
Hmmmm...Disagree
100% but everyone has an opinion, I see nothing that supports landmark is a cult.?
Can you explore Mystery School
LIFE is a cult -- and so there's not even a need to go further and label beyond that statement.
LIFE IS A CULT.
Very interesting technique of dialogue with Destiny!!! Impressive there is an interest for your niche! But then again, there are many idiots out there LOL
If you call Landmark a cult, I'll just say it's the only cult that let's you go home. Lol... How do you critique an ideology that helps discover the possibilities in life you've been missing. People say anything for likes... but carry on.
And have you become closer to your family.
@@johnnyxmusic yes
How about a family member who disagrees with Landmark?
I paid for and attended 5 landmark courses, which started with the Forum. I liked the Forum, and found it's material interesting and useful...but found little value in the other courses. It's not for everyone, but it did teach me about "My Story" , and how it's impacting my life. It is hard to explain what the Forum is all about, but let's just say it works better (in my opinion) for weaker minded people. And unless you're will to buy into it 100%, and spend lots of money besides, the teachings evaporate soon after leaving the course. So, really, it's all about how deep you commit to it, and what you want out of it. But, it's not a cult.
Hi Meghan - I know most likely you will dismiss my comment and continue living your life with the perception that Landmark Forum is a cult. Nevertheless, I will am choosing to invest 15 minutes of my life for a stranger for the upliftment of humanity. Your perception of Landmark Forum is only existing in your own mind and has nothing to do with the reality that Landmark Forum has helped millions of human beings live a more authentic and happy life. The Forum leader goes through 5-7 years of training. This is not easy training by any means. I myself tried and failed 5 times to even qualify to lead a group session for 5 people. The way life works is that you will attract people who believe that Landmark Forum is a cult and you will continue to reinforce your incorrect perceptions about Landmark. Then one day you will die not knowing who you could have been if you had learnt some of the tools that Landmark could have taught you. My recommendation is for you to do the Landmark forum, Advance course, SELP, ILP and communication courses. At the end of it all if you still feel that Landmark is a cult then ask Landmark for a full refund and they will gladly return you all your money. No one at Landmark wants your money or to exploit you or any other human beings in any way. Everyone at Landmark wants to see you be the best version of yourself. No one at Landmark is pressuring you or recruiting you. They are only inviting you to explore your life so that you can distinguish your perceptions and the universal reality more clearly. I hope this comment add value to your life and your subscribers. Take Care Meghan and all the best for your future endeavors. God Bless you.
Typical torrent-like post from a landmark cultist. Posting like this is part of their “homework”
@@cableg01Thank you for your post and I agree with you. There's many of these cult members on here. Creepy.
@@cableg01I almost believed him till he said "God bless you" 😅 Scammer cliche
I remember EST in the 1970's. And the Moonies, and Scientology, Rajneeshpuram...
Now it's MAGA, Birtherism, anti-vax.....
Transgenderism...
Anti- Vax is still be going, MAGA is on life support, birtherism is long dead.
Wokism is the dangerous cult of our age. Unlike the other groups you've mentioned, wokism has consumed virtually every major Western institution.
Russiagate
Anti vax is a cult 😲🙊 I thought it was just a name people called you if you dared to not follow the programming 🤣🤣🤣😵💫😝
The covidians...
Here's where it all starts... Litigating Parental Alienation: Evaluating and Presenting an Effective Case in Court
by Ashish S Joshi (Author)
Publisher : American Bar Association (ABA)
Published on (January 1, 2021)
Hardcover : 352 pages
ISBN-10 : 1641058285
ISBN-13 : 978-1641058285