For those of you wondering about inertia.... imagine the big spinning metal disk spinning very fast. Imagine your hand is a motor or a kettle 20 miles away. When the motor or kettle (your hand) needs power, it puts its hand on the disk to slow it down. If the disk is small, your hand slows it quickly, if the disk is heavy and big, your hand doesn't really slow it down. If the disk slows down, the speed it is spinning slows down which takes the frequency below 50 Hz. This is called droop. If the speed drops below 49.5 Hz then the disk is automatically disconnected from the grid and can no longer power the kettle or motor. It is like a bouncer steps in and tells you to move away from the disk. All of a sudden, the amount of motors or kettles needing power exceeds the amount of power available and which is like a lot of hands on a small disk.... slowing it further.... causing more bouncers to step in. That is when the grid collapses. That is the issue Guy was explaining at the start. Wind turbines are like very small disks. Coal and gas turbines are like very heavy disks.
That is correct. If the turbine trips (as Guy mentions), That turbine is out of the game, and can not provide any power, even though it has inertia and what not. The CB will open the moment the power drops on the turbine. its better to see the inertia on the grid at "shock absorbers" on power demand.
Years ago (late 80's) we used to work at ICI in mid-Cheshire, I used to see a bloke at work who'd quote to me that the chlorine plant at ICI Runcorn used to consume 1% of Britain's electricity....Just think of it for one moment, 1% is hell of a lot of power consumed 😮. Guy if you do read this comment that bloke was called Tim Poole 🏍!
Much as I love this show and Guy, this seemed like they were really trying to fill the actual science explanation by just repeating the word 'inertia', as if no one has heard that word before. Would be good to actually have heard about why it's needed in a bit more detail, from the power generation to the power consumers.
I'm not sure what all that inertia talk was about...possibly what happens during a full load rejection? Or what happens when a large load pickup is required?
Not saying anything specific, just highlighting how important it has been to the grid and continues to be (we're replacing sources of it like thermal power plants with static sources like batteries and photovoltaic etc). But yes load rejection or pickup is softened by the inertia providing the energy difference while generators are slow to notice and react to it. As said as static sources are replacing out sources which inherently have inertia it's important to invest and give that inertia separately by bringing online large synchronous motors that have no load, in this application typically called synchronous condensers (though this video called it something similar). They not only provide inertia but also controllable reactive power as an added advantage.
So I'm just assuming here but I believe this edit of the video isn't the complete edit for TV. If you noticed those black boxes that appear throughout, I'm guessing those are marked out spots where text is supposed to be.
Good Lad guy always bringing us some good British tv shows they should give you the top gear show and get rid of those idiots who are doing it now your a propper presenter
Converting it from a power station to a bank of synchronous capacitors. They remove the boilers and turbines and other bits they don't need. The generators are retained and remain connected to the grid and turning at speed they provide inertia and the ability to consume or generate VARS (volt amps reactive) for power factor correction. Both help stabilise the grid. It has become a popular option as we move from fossil fuels to renewables.
@@markgohl2660 No. Wrong. Synchronous compensator. It's a MVAR compensator. Back energise the generator to become a motor and put inductive load onto the grid system -true power v apparent power. Trust me, I worked there for 10yrs and still work in the industry after 30yrs.
@@Huwie73 Maybe I got the Technical name wrong. As I understand it these are synchronous motors/generators. If you under excite the device it behaviours like an inductor if you over excite it it behaves like a capacitor. This enables you to put a variable load onto the grid. Power factor is true power divided by apparent power. One of these en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_condenser One question I do have. Do they need a pony motor to bring them up to grid speed before connection or is some other arrangement used?
@@markgohl2660 The gas turbines had a Static Starting Device SSD which is a thyristor drive -old school variable speed drive. It's a 2.1kV backfeed via the 400/16k/2.1kV system (tri wound transformer). In the UK, we never under excite the generator when pushing megawatts onto the grid -research rotor stability vector diagram. Any voltage regulation is done by the AVR auto voltage regulator. If you operate it manually, it goes pear shaped pretty fast -research 'pole slipping' -not a good day for anyone fella!
Thing is Scotland has been able to run the whole of Scotland off of renewable electricity be it solar ,wind ,wave and or hydro since 2019 so I electricity shouldn't of risen at all when for almost 4 years now have been able to use 100% renewable engery to power the grid
Bitcoin mining can be used to balance energy grids. They can instantly take up the slack in quiet times and generate an income for power producers regardless of consumer demand. They can also incentivize the development of very large renewable power facilities because of this. The heat generated from mining can also be used to provide heat at very low cost, something greenhouse vegetable growers might find useful right now. They can also be used to tap stranded energy sources that would otherwise completely go to waste. There is one huge rabbit hole to fall down if you want to... There's a 38 minute documentary called This Machine Greens which explains a lot of this
@@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589 I wouldn't expect anyone to understand it without putting the time in first. If you don't recognise a store of value, a hedge against inflation, a censorship free permissionless currency that can't be debased by any government or central bank, basically digital gold without the problems of storage, then I don't know what to tell you. My comment above isn't aspirational.. It is already being used for this purpose in various places around the world and incentivizing renewable investments. Hopefully this comment rings a little bell when the purchasing power of GBP has dropped even more (for examples just think back at the price of anything 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago) and eventually you are "encouraged" towards the "solution" of adopting a government issued CBDC and digital ID for basic services in the near future. 😉
thats not really true. If those 120tons of turbine lose their steam, they will try to coast down, but then rpm would go down generator frequency would try to go down and the grid power would start trying to keep the generator turning-like usually the grid is trying to slow the generator down by loading it and automatic systems would increase steam to maintain the rpm, but this time its the other way around.
Having worked in a factory with their own turbines, as we introduce load (400kW) we let the power house know so they can increase firing to avoid droop - extra power is absorbed by the grid as we place the factory back on line
They built this power station on the edge of the River Dee near Queens Ferry,they’ve been telling us for years about rising tides and yet they built this place at pretty near sea level,at high spring tides the water level is Not far off flooding the power station,not much forward thinking there was there,we were told sea levels would rise over a metre in the next few years but built this place next to a tidal river anyway,brilliant.
The tide swing was 10m but the issue was getting the cooling water on site. The silt burden was horrendous -many a night shift spent dealing with that issue fella! Never came close to flooding. I worked there for 10yrs.
Stored energy. Like a flywheel in your car , or when washing machine finished the washing, still is spinning when it's off and yuo can't open the door till it stops.
It helps soften big sudden changes in the grid, like if a substation were to trip out suddenly the load on the generators would lessen and they'd speed up, or opposite happen and generators would bog right down if a massive load like too many furnaces coming on at once. the intertia is energy stored in heavy mechanical rotation, which will provide energy opposite to the grids demand immediately, giving more time for the prime mover to adjust (say load went up a lot suddenly, the huge mass spinning will be harder to slow down than just the steam driving the turbine. The "harder" part just means the inertia of the weight is giving up energy immediately and sending out power while the steam takes time to adjust.) A freight train is a good example, if the prime mover died (yep same noun, prime mover just means which machine is adding the energy to the system) then the train will take a long time to stop. Even with brakes applied, there's a lot more energy to convert from more mass of a freight train than say a passenger train.
Great program . We should still be mining coal and using it for power the price has went through the roof because of our reliance on Russian gas it's a fecking joke.
You do know Pumped Hydro Storage Has more inertia Than A Very long Freight train \ Even some Super ships Forget you Tiny HGV A Freight Train / Supership at 5 mph would Drag you remains For the Next 2 ~ 3 miles even with the ALL emergency brakes Even going Penalty brakes Applied after impact Sadly Power usage Today isn what it use to be in the 1940s ~ 1990s ~ 2000 (All power Usage habits have changed ) Due to a abnormal loads & feeds in caused by Switch modes Power supply's and Grid Tie inverters are Altering the 50Hz(UK) / 60Hz (USA)waveform waveshape its Ment to be Sine wave but it more looking like a Noisy Square Wave that gained a few issues and isn yet causing other issues (Computers & Radio & TV radio interference even jamming Radar And upsetting Hams & AM (LW MW SW) Radio )
I worked at a "freewheeling" PowerStation for several years, yes it can burn gas when it needs to generate MW, but as in this video it is just freewheeling, locked onto the National Grid as a big motor with no load, as it has a mechanical clutch disconnecting it from the turbine. It is doing several things, it can adjust network voltage slightly to filter peaks and dips, it can absorb or generate reactive power similar to a capacitor and it can come online in a few minutes to generate MW when needed .
@@tommyhansen7600 All good. We used to have educational tours for University engineering students, many could not comprehend that it wasn't generating or using gas, even though it was spinning. We could also stop it frighteningly quick in an emergency, a Breaker disconnects it from the National Grid then another Breaker connects a massive 10MW load bank which stops it as quick as a push bike heading up hill switched to hardest gear.
Guy has just stated why clean/ green is dirtier than all other forms of power as you have to have wat for wat backed up & produced by fossil fuels or nuclear what a total waste of resources & money. I am living off-grid with alleged rentable's also wind is probably the worst as I have had 2 wind generators that have destroyed themselves not impressed & solar pv 👎not enough direct sunlight for it to work successfully in North West continental Europe.
To watch the full series, head over to All4: www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martins-great-british-power-trip
Guy Martin proper down to earth gentleman
For those of you wondering about inertia.... imagine the big spinning metal disk spinning very fast. Imagine your hand is a motor or a kettle 20 miles away. When the motor or kettle (your hand) needs power, it puts its hand on the disk to slow it down. If the disk is small, your hand slows it quickly, if the disk is heavy and big, your hand doesn't really slow it down. If the disk slows down, the speed it is spinning slows down which takes the frequency below 50 Hz. This is called droop. If the speed drops below 49.5 Hz then the disk is automatically disconnected from the grid and can no longer power the kettle or motor. It is like a bouncer steps in and tells you to move away from the disk. All of a sudden, the amount of motors or kettles needing power exceeds the amount of power available and which is like a lot of hands on a small disk.... slowing it further.... causing more bouncers to step in. That is when the grid collapses. That is the issue Guy was explaining at the start. Wind turbines are like very small disks. Coal and gas turbines are like very heavy disks.
That is correct. If the turbine trips (as Guy mentions), That turbine is out of the game, and can not provide any power, even though it has inertia and what not. The CB will open the moment the power drops on the turbine. its better to see the inertia on the grid at "shock absorbers" on power demand.
He's a modern day Fred Dibnah. Cracking guy so is our Martin.
Wish these was longer :)
Watch the episodes on 4od
Years ago (late 80's) we used to work at ICI in mid-Cheshire, I used to see a bloke at work who'd quote to me that the chlorine plant at ICI Runcorn used to consume 1% of Britain's electricity....Just think of it for one moment, 1% is hell of a lot of power consumed 😮. Guy if you do read this comment that bloke was called Tim Poole 🏍!
I don't know how to feel tbh. I spent 10yrs working there. It's traumatic see the place ripped apart. I'm glad Guy appreciated Deeside. RIP Deeside.
I like him. He's a learner.
Used to fly over this regularly as a gliding instructor next door at RAF Sealnd.
Good thermal generator from that chimney?
Much as I love this show and Guy, this seemed like they were really trying to fill the actual science explanation by just repeating the word 'inertia', as if no one has heard that word before. Would be good to actually have heard about why it's needed in a bit more detail, from the power generation to the power consumers.
I wish i had a mate like guy. I love building things in my shed aswell
Thanks for reminding me about the show, off to watch it now 🙂
Guy has to have the job that dreams are made of.
tom scott morph danced with mike rowe, i love it
worker: arc flash overalls, Guy: jeans and a hoodie. yes
Excellent 👍
Nice Guy, proper Lad, 👍👍.
6:51 Yes.... Metric FTW...
I'm not sure what all that inertia talk was about...possibly what happens during a full load rejection? Or what happens when a large load pickup is required?
Not saying anything specific, just highlighting how important it has been to the grid and continues to be (we're replacing sources of it like thermal power plants with static sources like batteries and photovoltaic etc).
But yes load rejection or pickup is softened by the inertia providing the energy difference while generators are slow to notice and react to it. As said as static sources are replacing out sources which inherently have inertia it's important to invest and give that inertia separately by bringing online large synchronous motors that have no load, in this application typically called synchronous condensers (though this video called it something similar). They not only provide inertia but also controllable reactive power as an added advantage.
I can’t believe he went to Deeside !!! That’s where I live :( I wish i knew 😓😩
& what and why was he knocking down? Was it the same power station he'd just changed the oil filter on?
Freaking love guy just wished it was on for about an hour but I'm greedy.
It is on for an hour but only on Ch4 or All4 in the U.K.
So I'm just assuming here but I believe this edit of the video isn't the complete edit for TV. If you noticed those black boxes that appear throughout, I'm guessing those are marked out spots where text is supposed to be.
I understand now, elastic band stability
A lot of generators aim for 1500rpm. It's all to do with the pairs of poles inside the generator itself. I've also seen 750rpm generators.
Just one thing bothering me. The spelling of "too" on the manual syncing switch😅
Good Lad guy always bringing us some good British tv shows they should give you the top gear show and get rid of those idiots who are doing it now your a propper presenter
The demolition is of the old cooling towers and boilers as they are now redundant.
Deeside has a very specialist MoD facility
5 min from my house that. Should of said mate I would of had you over for a brew.
So what's the connection between the turbine building and the demolition?
Are they decommissioning the place?
Converting it from a power station to a bank of synchronous capacitors. They remove the boilers and turbines and other bits they don't need. The generators are retained and remain connected to the grid and turning at speed they provide inertia and the ability to consume or generate VARS (volt amps reactive) for power factor correction. Both help stabilise the grid. It has become a popular option as we move from fossil fuels to renewables.
@@markgohl2660 No. Wrong. Synchronous compensator. It's a MVAR compensator. Back energise the generator to become a motor and put inductive load onto the grid system -true power v apparent power. Trust me, I worked there for 10yrs and still work in the industry after 30yrs.
@@Huwie73 Maybe I got the Technical name wrong. As I understand it these are synchronous motors/generators. If you under excite the device it behaviours like an inductor if you over excite it it behaves like a capacitor. This enables you to put a variable load onto the grid. Power factor is true power divided by apparent power. One of these en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_condenser
One question I do have. Do they need a pony motor to bring them up to grid speed before connection or is some other arrangement used?
@@markgohl2660 The gas turbines had a Static Starting Device SSD which is a thyristor drive -old school variable speed drive.
It's a 2.1kV backfeed via the 400/16k/2.1kV system (tri wound transformer).
In the UK, we never under excite the generator when pushing megawatts onto the grid -research rotor stability vector diagram.
Any voltage regulation is done by the AVR auto voltage regulator. If you operate it manually, it goes pear shaped pretty fast -research 'pole slipping' -not a good day for anyone fella!
Backfeeding the generator with 2.1kV using the thyristor drive turns the generator into a motor.
you would make a good dr who !
Thing is Scotland has been able to run the whole of Scotland off of renewable electricity be it solar ,wind ,wave and or hydro since 2019 so I electricity shouldn't of risen at all when for almost 4 years now have been able to use 100% renewable engery to power the grid
How to tell us you didn't understand or didn't watch the video without telling us
Bitcoin mining can be used to balance energy grids. They can instantly take up the slack in quiet times and generate an income for power producers regardless of consumer demand. They can also incentivize the development of very large renewable power facilities because of this. The heat generated from mining can also be used to provide heat at very low cost, something greenhouse vegetable growers might find useful right now. They can also be used to tap stranded energy sources that would otherwise completely go to waste. There is one huge rabbit hole to fall down if you want to... There's a 38 minute documentary called This Machine Greens which explains a lot of this
Yeah it'd be good if it were actually useful for something, other than getting tech bros all sweaty in the gusset.
@@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589 I wouldn't expect anyone to understand it without putting the time in first. If you don't recognise a store of value, a hedge against inflation, a censorship free permissionless currency that can't be debased by any government or central bank, basically digital gold without the problems of storage, then I don't know what to tell you.
My comment above isn't aspirational.. It is already being used for this purpose in various places around the world and incentivizing renewable investments. Hopefully this comment rings a little bell when the purchasing power of GBP has dropped even more (for examples just think back at the price of anything 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago) and eventually you are "encouraged" towards the "solution" of adopting a government issued CBDC and digital ID for basic services in the near future. 😉
if money wasnt a option what truck would you buy and want ,to do anything you need work farm and luxury
thats not really true. If those 120tons of turbine lose their steam, they will try to coast down, but then rpm would go down generator frequency would try to go down and the grid power would start trying to keep the generator turning-like usually the grid is trying to slow the generator down by loading it and automatic systems would increase steam to maintain the rpm, but this time its the other way around.
Having worked in a factory with their own turbines, as we introduce load (400kW) we let the power house know so they can increase firing to avoid droop - extra power is absorbed by the grid as we place the factory back on line
They built this power station on the edge of the River Dee near Queens Ferry,they’ve been telling us for years about rising tides and yet they built this place at pretty near sea level,at high spring tides the water level is Not far off flooding the power station,not much forward thinking there was there,we were told sea levels would rise over a metre in the next few years but built this place next to a tidal river anyway,brilliant.
The tide swing was 10m but the issue was getting the cooling water on site. The silt burden was horrendous -many a night shift spent dealing with that issue fella! Never came close to flooding. I worked there for 10yrs.
What does the inertia do
Stored energy. Like a flywheel in your car , or when washing machine finished the washing, still is spinning when it's off and yuo can't open the door till it stops.
It helps soften big sudden changes in the grid, like if a substation were to trip out suddenly the load on the generators would lessen and they'd speed up, or opposite happen and generators would bog right down if a massive load like too many furnaces coming on at once.
the intertia is energy stored in heavy mechanical rotation, which will provide energy opposite to the grids demand immediately, giving more time for the prime mover to adjust (say load went up a lot suddenly, the huge mass spinning will be harder to slow down than just the steam driving the turbine. The "harder" part just means the inertia of the weight is giving up energy immediately and sending out power while the steam takes time to adjust.)
A freight train is a good example, if the prime mover died (yep same noun, prime mover just means which machine is adding the energy to the system) then the train will take a long time to stop. Even with brakes applied, there's a lot more energy to convert from more mass of a freight train than say a passenger train.
1/4 way through the video &. No need for the music.
Go to an offshore platform
Great program .
We should still be mining coal and using it for power the price has went through the roof because of our reliance on Russian gas it's a fecking joke.
4:47
You do know Pumped Hydro Storage Has more inertia Than A Very long Freight train \ Even some Super ships
Forget you Tiny HGV A Freight Train / Supership at 5 mph would Drag you remains For the Next 2 ~ 3 miles even with the ALL emergency brakes Even going Penalty brakes Applied after impact
Sadly Power usage Today isn what it use to be in the 1940s ~ 1990s ~ 2000 (All power Usage habits have changed )
Due to a abnormal loads & feeds in caused by Switch modes Power supply's and Grid Tie inverters are Altering the 50Hz(UK) / 60Hz (USA)waveform waveshape its Ment to be Sine wave but it more looking like a Noisy Square Wave that gained a few issues and isn yet causing other issues (Computers & Radio & TV radio interference even jamming Radar And upsetting Hams & AM (LW MW SW) Radio )
Ok, so that power company is spending all that money to burn all that gas to keep a turbine spun up, but NOT having it actually output any power??
its for gas thats local and more expensive to ship for usage than direct burning now, although im saying this whilst just watching the video
I worked at a "freewheeling" PowerStation for several years, yes it can burn gas when it needs to generate MW, but as in this video it is just freewheeling, locked onto the National Grid as a big motor with no load, as it has a mechanical clutch disconnecting it from the turbine. It is doing several things, it can adjust network voltage slightly to filter peaks and dips, it can absorb or generate reactive power similar to a capacitor and it can come online in a few minutes to generate MW when needed .
@@wonton8983 ah excuse me i thought i knew more than i actually know
@@tommyhansen7600 All good. We used to have educational tours for University engineering students, many could not comprehend that it wasn't generating or using gas, even though it was spinning. We could also stop it frighteningly quick in an emergency, a Breaker disconnects it from the National Grid then another Breaker connects a massive 10MW load bank which stops it as quick as a push bike heading up hill switched to hardest gear.
Guy has just stated why clean/ green is dirtier than all other forms of power as you have to have wat for wat backed up & produced by fossil fuels or nuclear what a total waste of resources & money. I am living off-grid with alleged rentable's also wind is probably the worst as I have had 2 wind generators that have destroyed themselves not impressed & solar pv 👎not enough direct sunlight for it to work successfully in North West continental Europe.
Just keep on blathering. Someone will care about what you're saying one day.