Dr William Lane Craig Discusses God's Existence And The Historical Adam
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Cosmological Argument (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy): plato.stanford...
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*Timestamps:*
0:00 - Introduction
0:17 - Background of Dr. Craig
1:01 - Topics of Discussion
1:32 - Origin of the Kalam Cosmological Argument
3:09 - What's the Kalam Cosmological Argument?
4:40 - Objection to the 1st Premise of the Argument
5:35 - Response to the Objection
8:57 - Objection to the Argument's Conclusion
10:04 - Response to the Objection
13:06 - Historicity of Jesus' Resurrection
16:03 - Did Jesus pbuh think he was God?
18:04 - Development of the Kalam Cosmological Argument
18:59 - Dr. Craig's Book on the Historical Adam
20:10 - Genre analysis of Genesis
21:51 - Historical Evidences of the Prophets
23:17 - Myth vs Reality in the story of Adam & Eve in Genesis
26:54 - God's use of Language in Genesis
28:04 - Authorship of the Pentateuch & its inconsistencies
32:32 - At what time did Adam & Eve exist?
(Origin of Humanity)
39:04 - Adam's Supernatural Creation
43:15 - Future & Current Projects of Dr. Craig
46:03 - Closing Remarks from Dr. Craig
46:47 - Wrapping Up
👍
Asad:"Ok you may now pin my comment brother Paul"
Paul: "Thanks for your amazing work Asadullah"
@@Snakejuce_ 😂🤣👍🏻👌🏻
@@supporterofeastturkestanin2871 If you could politely just leave through the door, it's right behind you. There is no room for ignorant children here.
Many thanks!
I love the push back that Paul gave Dr Craig with his attempt at proselytizing the idea of Jesus as God. TabarakAllah brother Paul! You gave the man his deserved credit and respect for his Kalam argument and his trashing of Krause but you gave him a resounding no on Jesus as God😃 May Allah reward you in this world and the next!
Alhamdulillah.
I came here to write this exact comment but you said it very well 🙏
@@BloggingTheology When will be the video uploaded on Daniel 9 that you will do with Dr Ali Ataie?
we are looking forward to seeing it in the channel
please answer this question
@@RobinoftheHod CWL knows that Paul Williams is a Muslim. It's no longer a secret. Paul had him as a guess to let him share his version of the Kalam argument and to explain his take on the historicity of Adam (as). WLC explained the Kalam argument for God but then tried to sell the idea Jesus as God as a two-for-one to go with the Kalam argument. And of course, PW respectfully declined.
Not Paul it's Saul.. Who like the ( Baptist of pagan al-lah, (2:138, yusuf Ali. )
Paul Williams conversing with William Lane Craig in addition to Jordan Peterson talking with Hamza Yusuf 2 days ago - Wow!
It's really good to see these friendly lines of dialogue opening up between our faiths!
Even the debate between Jake the Muslim metaphysician and IP was very cordial
These discussions have BEEN happening, it's nothing new. But yes, it is great to continue establishing these bridges and strengthening them.
@@merlinx8703 IP? Ip Man? You could've just wrote out the name lmao. My guy just HAD to abbreviate it to two letters.
@@Snakejuce_ the christian apologist Inspiring Philosophy
@@merlinx8703 Yeah I figured it out because I randomly stumbled upon it, then I was like "oh that's what that kid was talking about", when I saw "IP" next to the dudes name haha.
It wasn't as I expected. He's really inventing something new to his religion. We know that there is always a new updates. Thank Allah for Islam. Well done Pual
😂😂 looks like Mohammed did too, where a donkey flies, virgin awaits for sex that's was never a part of God of Israel..
Pual? 😅
Common people. This channel should be nearing a million followers with the content uploaded in short period of time. Great dawah brother Paul
Respect for Dr. Craig, and brother Paul who was very sharp like always.
Great critical questions brotha Paul. Instead of just blindly agreeing and jumping from point to point, it is far more poignant to have discussions like this and ask these questions. Thank you to both persons for this video.
A lovely man, chatting with a lovely man - about existential, spiritual and philosophical subjects of great magnitude, thank you!
I agree. I hope Paul will have more discussions with WLC.
Fascinating discussion as usual - thanks Paul.
If one believe parts of one’s scripture to be mytho- history than the world is your oyster. It does however create the problem of inconsistency of views as well.
This was always going to be a difficult convo. WLC life and reputation is built on doctrine of trinity, original sin and resurrection. He is a profound Christian apologetic. Nonetheless a well conducted discussion Paul👍
Well, approach of Muslim scholarship to the Quran is similar, especially the angels bowing down to Adam. Perhaps the word "mythic" is not accurately put. Maybe "figurative" would be a better fit. Quran and Sunna also keep using symbolic, figurative language many times over. One has to learn the interpretation (ta'weel) in order to discern the theme being discussed in a specific context.
Accommodation theory that Craig referred to reminded of theiry of tanzeel in Quran that scholars talked about. Tanzeel is the idea that Allah accommodated human comprehension by the Quran. Otherwise His original speech would be like His speech to Moses from which Moses lost his consciousness and fell as narrated in the Quran.
Another concepts in the same context that Muslim scholars pointed out are tanzeeh and tashbeeh; transcendence and semblance. Quran also used some terms about Allah (hands, face etc) which gave semblance to humans to bring His presence closer to human mind (tanzeel). However many scholars said that these attributes cannot be taken literally, nor their truth be denied in any way.
Most world religions consider parts of their scriptures to be mytho-history to some degree. Islam is unique in that it considers its holy book to be the verbatim dictated word of God. Only a very small minority of Christians believe anything close to that about the Bible; most Christians simply declare the Bible "inspired" by God, but there is enormous variation on what that means. That's part of why, like you say create an impetus for many different sects/denominations/brands of Christianity that are not in Communion with each other. "Christianity" is really more an umbrella term of many different (related) religions, rather than one single monolithic religion.
Craig's use of the term "myth" in his book, quest for the historical Adam, is very different than how we interpret and think of a myth in the world today. Craig uses the word in a very broad sense to convey the oral traditions passed down over hundreds of generations, with minimal factual evidence. For example, Genesis chapters 1 thru 11 do not have direct authorship - we do not know who wrote these chapters and they have similarities to mesopatam and sumerian writings. However, the mesopotamian and sumerian writings also have multiple gods with multiple personalities, making outlandish unsubstantiated magical claims. Nevertheless, the creation story overlapped with these other oral traditions and thus the term mytho history. I just read the book - deep dive into sumerian and mesopotamian legends, myths and history and how it may have influenced the author(s) of Genesis chapter 1 thru 11.
Two great minds meeting .. May Allah guide Dr Craig to the truth of Islam ☪️
New viewer of BT and I must say that the focus, rigor, preparation and depth that Paul displays in his engagements with his accomplished guests is refreshing amidst a sea of mediocre podcasts and RUclips personalities. Well done Paul!
Thank you!
May Allah swt guide Dr. Craig to islam.
So he just stated Gazzali took the Kalam cosmological concept from christians? How!!
@@engineered.mechanized no way what is the timestamp for when he said this?
Aneen
He doesn't have to become a Muslim the way we Muslims believe because he already submitted himself to The only God. Every person who believes in the oneness of God is a Muslim, according to the Quran and God is All-knowing.
@@FullMoongrn don't cook up your own narrative of Islam. Quran specifically says Islam is the only religion chosen by Allah. You have to abide by the criterion set by Islam.
That was a good one... enjoyed this.
I only wish it was much longer. I hope you can bring him back again to discuss another form of argument.
I like your response Paul. Your an amazing man. Very intelligent, keep going. William couldn't discuss the suspect of the historical Jesus peace be upon him!
We need a interview from Paul on this too in the future
I like how he tried to rob Muslims of the Kalam argument. Ghazali simply inherited. Haha. Nice. Oh well, let Dr. Craig have his day.
He still has to call it Kalam, an Arabic word, despite his "robbing"
They always do it. With everything. They just can’t accept the awesomeness and intelligence of non white/ European human beings.
We are living in am perceived European superiority, this perception was designed and imposed on us all !
He is a brilliant mind regardless of differences. It's important to keep up conversation with the likes of Dr Craig
I once a heard a scholar saying about existence of God: If you do not expect the Oxford dictionary have made itself by itself with all the letters exploding and arranging themselves in alphabetical order …then you should never expect the Universe with its most intricate meticulous arrangement ( far more than the Oxford dictionary)to make itself by itself. As simple as that.. a very strong argument for myself.
Hey... I like those comments by that scholar. Peace
@@johnbrzykcy3076
Salam John . Me too I agree
Our Creator is the One and only the True Eternal Living God who is describe by this verse:
( Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one (Deuteronomy 6:4 (NIV))
I pray to only Him to guide us to the truth. Amen
That is too simplistic arguement. The person who wrote Oxford dictionary was human who have been evolved from a very simple substance/life for million of years. Due to evolution of his brain , he became smart enough to write a dictionary. Its OK to think that God created that simple life or substance but most important all complex objects or life form you see today were originated from a very simple things. Simple things met the incredients to form more complexs things and subsequently evolve through trial and errors. There must be an errors everywhere before reaching the stage today and today we still can see many errors such as dying, killing, accidents, war, predator eating life prey, cancer in human, birth defects, climate disaster, tsunami killing hundred thousands of human including innocent childrens etc.
so, lacking an ACTUAL understanding of existence, "god" gets thrown up as the "answer". Classic god of the gaps fallacy. LOL
@@doctorzeno1914 It is good to find someone who has the ACTUAL understanding of the existence like your good self. Keep laughing out loud !
Great insightful conversation with Dr. Craig, very intelligent, very informative, thoroughly enjoyed this, great facilitation, helpful clarifying questions raised during this conversation Paul, 👍May Allah guide Dr. Craig during his discovery whilst compiling his 3 volume set, Ameen
Masha-Allah brother Paul, salaam alaikum wa Rahtullahi wa Barakatuh, this is a huge surprise‼️ i believe that these discussions need to be further elaborated with Dr Craig. He's such a gentleman, my respects to him‼️ we need to have Muhammad Hijab discussing with with him also. Jazak Allahu Khairan brother Paul, excellent interview, do you think you can have him talk with professor Ali Ataie? Here in your show, it'll be a great topic to discuss‼️👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Before I watched the video, I saw who was the guest and immediately clicked on the video. Thank you brother Paul
You have the best guests and they have great knowledge, thanks to you brother Paul! These are much needed discussions indeed.
Ma sha Allah brother Paul, I haven't seen anyone pump out great content as much as you are! Keep up the good work, but please take care of yourself. We don't want you to burnout. Allah be with you!
25:05 - Craig mentions that one of the main reasons why he believes part of the creation-story as found in genesis to be a myth is because it describes God with very finite human-like characteristics, "a finite humanoid deity" as he puts it. Thus - according to Craig - it is in contradiction and incompatible with other parts of the pentateuch that describes God as being transcendent and far above such anthropomorphic ascriptions and characteristics. That according to him is seen as clearly indicative that it is mythical. But... at the same time he is willing to believe as a "historical fact" that God became a human in the new testament doing exactly that for which he deemed parts of the creation-story in genesis to be mythical.
Oh my God, go easy on him, he's a 70 years old man.
Of course we humans can convince ourselves anything. The heart gets what the heart wants. It's called emotionally invested.
Your observation is very interesting. I myself believe that Jesus did come in human form to show us the love of God the Father. Regarding Genesis, I still don't know what to think. Is it "myth" or can some of Genesis be understood literally?
Anyhow.... peace of God to you...
Excellent point. Craig is just another clueless pseudo philosopher groping in the dark.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 yeah but islamic view on messenger is that as you are saying in the sense they dont "become human" they are human but special in the sense they spread god's word in the earth even though most dont believe them, that was the life of moses,abraham,jesus, and muhammad pbuh, humans who had a mission, god is infinite, he always sended humans to spread his words for thousand years and knows everything, the jesus preaching years and what happened to him, also happened to abraham,moses,muhammad pbuh all of them were not rich kings they had very very tough trials, god knows that humans wont believe them he sends them as warners so in the day of jugment none of the unbelievers will have an excuse.
9:22
This is exactly what Ibn Taymiyyah has raised against such arguments.
He stated that even if the argument itself is true, it's not very beneficial, because it gives us only a general concept of "uncaused cause" without specifying the attributes of the God of the prophets.
Maybe you should have listened at the 25 mins of the interview. You may get your answers. As some salafi's say Allah has in reality (in حقيقه) has attributes like HAND, FACE AND SHIN, but we can't say how (كيف) leads to Anthropomorphism. When Allah says in the Quran 42:11.
11. The Creator of the heavens and earth.’ He made mates for you from among yourselves-and for the animals too-so that you may multiply. There is nothing like Him: He is the All Hearing, the All Seeing.
Qur'an 112:4.
4 And none is like unto Him.”
This two verses are a definitive (Qad'iقطعي) and are the standard to understand the rest of the Qur'an.
@@khaderlander2429 that's basically the same as the idea of tafwid according to the asharis. It's a coherent and logical position. Alhamdulillah for Islam.
Ehh, not really. Uncaused cause is a synonymous way of saying the creator of the Universe is Eternal. You don't need to know that Allah has many attributes to realize that there is Allah
Well done Paul. Kindly do an interview with him on the inconsistencies within Bible, if possible. He is an erudite man, so let's see what he says.
Excellent interview! Paul did very well in conducting the interview.
Thank you brother Paul for another great interview , May God bless you brother.
Thanks!
Many thanks Neil!
Truly Paul, thank you for everything you do, and thank God for guiding you to Islam.
God bless both of you great men and thinkers.
Was waiting for this!
Wow this has been absolutely fascinating for me to watch! Jzk brother Paul for the brilliant stream. Allah reward you and your efforts. Aameen 🤲
Great minds discussing basic theological questions. Pleasure to watch!
When Dr. William Craig started talking about humanity and his question about when exactly did humanity appear, he got me interested, I believe that humanity and morals have the same meaning, so when morals appeared in human behaviour, then humanity also appeared, when humans began to act in the opposite way to the behavior of animals, That is, when the negative desire appears within him.
Dr Craig's introduction to the kalam arguement is really Surah 112 of the Qur'aan, where Allah[swt] is described.
May Allah bless you brother paul for bringing up the fact that it's a strongly held position amongst academicians that the historical Jesus didn't claim to be God in any way.
I agree with you but the life and stories of Jesus ( including His miracles) do point to Jesus being more than a mere human. I think that was why God the Father called Jesus "my beloved." Peace
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Yes an honorable prophet, messenger and and messiah from the One God. God chose him over others to lead and rule over the children of Isreal and to recite to the people of the good news.
And when he comes again he'll establish justice on the world by the will of God and rule over the world with Gods blessing and it'll be a great honor to obey and serve him as that is what an honorable man should do. But Jesus was only a man.
Peace
At the begining of the podcast when the question regarding how to find the other attributes of God came out
@@wasifsamin2056 I like your comments except the sentence "But Jesus was only a man." In my understanding, if Jesus was only a "man', then why should I even follow Christianity? Jesus the Christ came to earth in human form in obedience to God the Father in order to show us how much God loves us, His creation.
Anyhow, I don't know it all so I try to respect Muslims. Only God can guide each of us. Thanks for your reply.
@El-Ḥaakim be-Amr Allāh I agree with you. I struggle with Jesus' true identity but so far it seems like Jesus was divine. God the Father called Jesus, "My beloved." And the way Jesus prayed to God is very enlightening. May God guide each of us. Peace to you
Dr. Craig, really grateful for sharing your arguments and wisdom with us.
I must confess I wasn't expecting you leaving the origin o Man/Adam to science. To which I adhere.
With some minor disagreements.
You also mentioned Sumerian narrative of creation somehow inserted in Genesis. And I find it fascinating and under researched.
It was a pleasure listening to both of you exchanging views.
Many thanks
👍🏽😘
God bless Dr Craig. A fierce defender of our faith!
I'm a Christian believer and although I never want to insult Islamic believers, I hope I can defend the foundational doctrines of Christianity which point to God's love for us. Peace
@@johnbrzykcy3076
What makes the bible authentic source?
@@landofbanana6304 In my understanding, the evidence from the many manuscripts of the New Testament point to it's reliability regarding the life of Jesus. And early Christian followers of Jesus also wrote about Jesus. So I believe that the early followers of Jesus communicated orally the stories of Jesus who came to show us the love of God the Father.
I could ask what makes the Quran an "authentic source"? I don't dispute it's historical evidence, but I don't seem to understand why it's considered the "last revelation." Exactly what does it mean by "last revelation"?
By the way, no disrespect toward Muslims. God give you peace.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 were the gospel writers eyewitnesses of every event of their writings or other people were reporting to them ?
@@coffeelover4956 That's an excellent question. I think that the gospel writers ( at least Matthew and John ) were eyewitnesses to most of the events. But the other gospels ( Mark and Luke ) were probably written when other people reported events to the author. I could be wrong.
Peace
Super interesting conversation. The historical hominid development and subsequent “infusion” of some elevated aspect to ‘Adamify’ this pre-existing hominid creature was an interesting turn; that it may be spiritual or biological or some other dimension which makes us ‘human’.
We must always approach with humility; if we don’t know what is “beyond our grasp”, we must be patient.
I really like your statement of "if we don't know what is 'beyond our grasp,' we must be patient" Excellent. And I agree. Peace
Paul, thoughts on having Dr Craig to discuss the Trinity? It’s amazing how someone can be so intelligent yet scripturally incoherent at the same time.
This is going to be juicy!!! Prepping my espresso based beverages as we move along.
Well that escalated quickly regarding Jesus' relation to the cosmological aargument.
@@yasminenazarine1629
Well depends on what type of espresso too.
@@yasminenazarine1629
Well then literally anything is better than your morning espresso.
Even though I'm a Muslim, I'm a big admirer of W L Craig & have been for almost 20 years. Would be great to have a 'part 2' of this interview after you've read his historical Adam book.
LoL. A muslim and a "big admirer of Dr Craig"? And after 20 years, you still admiring him? Where is your critical thinking my man?
He could like Dr.Craig's arguments
Much respect to Dr Craig and bro Paul. Allah bless you both!
I am not sure at all about his opening statement, (Too convenient) because some historical facts disagree with Dr Craig.
He is a definitely a good defender of theism, but he also is known to slightly bent the truth to give Christianity a head start and advantage.
That is Great Sir.
i am waiting for this from many weeks😊🤗
Hey Paul, I just noticed that Dr. Craig has an excellent presentation ( May 29 ) about the Kalam Cosmological argument ( part 8 ) on his RUclips channel Reasonablefaith. He gives credit to the Medieval Muslim Theologian al-Ghazali which I was happy to hear.
Peace to you..... from Florida
mashaAllah, Allah has blessed Dr William Lane Craig with such a smart looking for someone his age.
Sounds like he was more nervous to speak to you bro 😅
"The Kalam Cosmological Arguement" ... Read his book in my late teens in the 90s alongside Richard Swinburne's book
I was reading in surah alae Imran 3rd chapter, starting from verse 46 onwards. After discussing how Jesus was born miraculously to Mary (peace be on her) and how from day one he spoke in cradle and how he was given miracles, how he will also speak in later life and how he was taught scriptures,there is a long discussion, where Jesus Christ( peace be upon him) is trying to convince Jewish people (Bani Israel) of his being a prophet of God a messiah for them with signs and proves, mentioning his God given miracles of curing the sick and others and his knowledge of Torah and how he has come with new legislation of replacing the old from Torah to new one (Bible), the same consistent clear cut message of one and only one God and to worship that God, as all prophets (peace be upon them) did convey. Same unity of message with all prophets.( peace be upon them)
After conveying his message, Jesus (peace be upon him) senses unbelief and rejection in his prophecy by the general Jewish community and he asked his disciples if he can count on their help and they responded yes, in writing.
Then Quran makes a major statement in verse 54 saying of how the unbelievers in Jesus ( peace be upon him) planned a plot against him, so Allah (swt ) responded with a far greater perfect plan. Obviously than unbelievers plan was to get Jesus Christ (peace upon him ) crucified and be punished. But God’s great plan was to make one of the traitor from his disciple’s face resemble that of Jesus’s face and take Jesus ( peace be upon him ) back to Himself.
وَمَكَرُوا۟ وَمَكَرَ ٱللَّهُ ۖ وَٱللَّهُ خَيْرُ ٱلْمَٰكِرِينَ
“And the disbelievers made a plan ˹against Jesus˺, but Allah also planned-and Allah is the best of planners”.
So the bad guy was crucified and Jesus (peace be upon him) was saved.
Why would the most merciful God sacrifice his prophet for all humanity when He is capable of forgiving all their sins except the sin of shirk ( including partners with Him ) the only unforgivable sin.
This is not the first time it has happened. It has happened with other great prophets of God, as well for example, Ibrahim ( peace be on him ) from the fire, with prophet Yunus (Peace be on him) from the whale,
Prophet Musa (peace be upon him) from pharoh,etc.
This is always the sunnah of Allah (swt) ( practice )of God.
So the person crucified was a different person while Jesus Christ (peace be on him) was seen as alive when being in ascension to God because he was not crucified unlike what Christians belief.
I see liberal Jews having the approach of looking at the Bible as some kind of collection of myth and stories that are to inspire the reader. This is probably result of the doubts in the literal authenticity of the Bible as a doccument when its inconsistencies got revealed.
Now we see this with Dr. Craig's understanding of the story of Adam in Genesis.
But this begs the question, if this would be true, which authority or institution or commission wrote those things as a guidence and with what competence .
Islam says that the Bible was revealed but later was changed by people. Therefore there is the last revelation which is the Quran and it preserved. Now this makes things clearer.
When will be the video uploaded on Daniel 9 that you will do with Dr Ali Ataie?
we are looking forward to seeing it in the channel
please abswer this question
When will be the video uploaded on Daniel 9 that you will do with Dr Ali Ataie?
we are looking forward to seeing it in the channel
please answer this question
Jake Muslim metaphysician please 👍🏿👍🏿
Craig says the opposite of love is not hate but it's 'not love'. That's when I started to have doubts about his intellect and intentions. Christianity and Trinity can corrupt wise minds.
I'm not very wise to begin with, but why do you say that "Christianity... can corrupt wise minds"? I think Jesus the Christ was the wisest "man" who ever lived. Peace to you
Walekum assalam, peace be upon all from Christ. John 20/19.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 I will tell you why. Jesus always said that he has been sent by God and he has a God and he is not good but only God is good. Jesus never said that you have to believe that I died for you. He said submit your will to God and God is one. Its christianity which has added Trinity and to justify it, they are struggling everywhere, giving weird logic and reasoning that there are 3 fully Gods and they are one...which was not the teaching of Jesus ever.
@@henriquesombiga4338 I respect what you said and in a way, I agree with you. I don't think I will ever understand concept of "trinity." But to me, the most important thing in Christianity is NOT words like "trinity" but the truth that God loved us so much that He sent Jesus in human form to die on a cross for us.
Anyhow... peace to you
@@henriquesombiga4338, no, what corrupt minds is when people try to understand God and his word without knowing God, without God's Spirit guiding and teaching them. Exactly what Christianity is, the restoration of our personal relationship with our Creator....
Excellent thank you very much both hoast and guest.
The incredible thing is not only did Gazali make the most profound simplistic argument with regards to the universe but also propound about the universe had a beginning so many hundreds of years ago, when no one was sure about the universe having a beginning (thanks to the Qur'an)
@24:00 minute mark! Well done Paul well done sir! That fall of man narrative. That one, single narrative is ALL that separates Islam from Christianity. MashAllah Well done brother!
wow was not expecting this one
He's my favourite Christian apologetic to listen to!! He is very eloquent in his conferences and is also very tolerant on the subject of Christianity being questioned. A very neutral person overall.
Yes.... I agree with you. I don't listen to Dr. Craig's channel that much. I'm a Christian believer but I actually listen to Blogging Theology the most !
That’s because you’re going to be Muslim soon! InshAllah.
Sir Paul, how did you find talking to Dr. William? He is a very learned and sincere person but you got my point I made in the last post that True Christians and True Muslims have so much in common as opposed to the New Atheists. As you see how well Dr. William explained the Kalam argument, on the topic of Adam, its a bit over board. (It might indicate how Christianity has evolved over the years) but my point is that a True Christian is indeed God fearing and will stay away from sins but as we know where the clash is and lets leave that to The God.
Brother Paul, May Allah swt bless you and grant you even more success. I watch your videos religiously. When I watch reverts like you and others, I almost feel a sense of jealousy mixed with admiration. Despite being born in a society that's so far removed from Islam, Allah swt softened your heart and guided you to Sirat al Mustaqeem.
It's funny when the topic of the conversation is about the cosmological argument and historical Adam book yet Dr Craig started preaching unnecessarily about his theology that has nothing to do with the topic and then became a bit definsive when Paul starting pushing back by mentioning the scholarly consensus about the historical Jesus and authenticity of the scripture like Craig was expecting Paul to absorb that christian " dawah " he pushed within the conversation and let it pass as if it's well established and we all should agree and it's PAUL who is going off topic .
This is one of the most interesting Vlog I’ve ever seen. Thank you Sir.
one of the best christians apologist
once i saw his name i was excited
I thought he was Dr Craig Considine at first 😃
Love this channel…thanks Paul
Magnifique Frère Paul, très subtile ,'vous lui répondez:« j'ai retenu de ''choisir'' avec des yeux ouverts et aussi un coeur ouvert».
Et , and it's what he did say ,:« to look at the evidence whith an open heart and open eyes.»
hhh, hh.👍👍👍.
That’s a healthy transformation of discussions in common ground and I think people who believe in the existence of God have common ground in a good number of objects so we need to build this common ground and protect it together even when there is critical objects and differences in other objects but still like the existence of God the only true one is a good common ground we need to care about making it everywhere clear.
Paul, an excellent choice!
Keeping the language the bible in sight, every prophet is a son of God in unique sense. This is why Bible has sons by the tons (as famously put by Sheikh Ahmed Dedaat)
I love how Paul just realized he doesn't need to argue about anything because William was going to confirm all of Paul's criticisms of Christianity without any push. I genuinely mean this, huge respect to William for actually doing apologetics in an honest way at least.
Always a pleasure to hear dr william ...
building bridges ..
Paul....man......your Faith ❤️ being around so many convincing ideas yet clinging to the Allah/Elohim/Allaha
It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.
I find it odd how Jesus Christ is believed to have been "the Son of God, in a unique sense", which is Dr. Craig really referring to John's Gospel, where it says that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, which in turn is interpreted to refer to the Son's pre-eternal existence alongside God the Father, but then Dr. Craig mentioned how John Philoponus, for instance, argued against the Greek belief in the past eternity of the universe, and its coexistence alongside The Maker (i.e. God).
The issue here is that "the only begotten Son of God" we find in John's Gospel actually uses the exact same phraseology as we find in, for instance, Plato's writings. Plato calls the universe the monogenes ouranos, or "the only begotten heaven", and what that means is that the universe, as a whole, is this unique creation that has no beginning, and has existed alongside The Maker since beginningless eternity. They believed that God's precedence to the created world is not in terms of chronology, but more like how you preceed your own shadow: the shadow being dependent in its existence on your existence, whereas you are not dependent in your existence on the existence of the shadow you cast. You exist simultaneously, but your precedence to it is only in terms of being. This "monogenes ouranos" is then 'copied' in John's Gospel, "heaven" is replaced by "son", and the exact same term is then applied to Jesus; again, making something other than God coeternal with Him: Jesus, in this case, instead of the universe. I find this to be rather similar, since you basically end up with the same problem, which is that you have a creation/creature being attributed with a beginningless existence.
So I wonder how exactly Philoponus refutes the Greek concept of a uniquely created universe (i.e. a beginninglessly eternal creation), while not simultaneously shooting down his own Christian theology. Because the argument against this Greek idea that Al Ghazali, for example, formulated in his "Tahafut" can, in my opinion, just as easily be applied to the Christian idea of a beginninglessly eternal Christ. I'm sure Christians would respond to this by going into the supposed dual nature of Christ, trying to move away from the fact that we're talking about a (created) human being here, but then how do they distinguish this disembodied and beginninglessly eternal second persona of the godhead from the Father? I'd be interested in hearing that. To me, the problem of distinction, poses a huge problem for Christian theology and to their claim of believing in One God.
Another point worth noting here, is that "only begotten son" was an expression that shows up quite a lot in pre-Christian, Greek literature. It means exactly what it means, in most cases. Either it pertains to human beings and their only offspring, or it referred to anthropomorphic deities (literally in the form of humans) and their only offspring. But there's still that modality involved of sexually reproducing and giving birth to the child. This meaning is often rejected by Christians, and so they'll go back to Plato's description of the beginninglessly eternal universe, but then now they will often reject that Christ was a creation. Plato believed that the world was in fact created. It is being created since beginningless eternity, because The Maker must be attributed with the necessarily existent attribute of Creating, and they figured that this meant that He must have been creating 'something' since forever.
We do find something similar to this in Christianity, or at least in how Christians often speak about God, which is that they'll tell us that God must be attributed with being All-Loving, and so there must have been a beginninglessly eternal object of said love, which would be the Son, in past eternity. Again, this is very similar to what the Greeks wrongly attributed to God, and to me this now seems to imply that their understanding of "past eternity" really means that this is a very long period of time in the past, or a time, passed. But that's not what God's intrinsically necessary and beginninglessly eternal existence refers to. They put God in this 'eternal' timeline, really, and so His attributes have to be acted upon, expressed, or be in effect, always, since past eternity, and therefor, the created world is a beginninglessly eternal and necessary outcome of God's attribute of being The Creator, and Jesus as the Son then is a beginninglessly eternal and necessary object of God's attribute of being The All-Loving Father.
There's many more issues or questions I can come up with in this regard, but I'll just leave it at that. I think Dr. Craig is a very nice individual, but we have to be critical and engage with his input, from an Islamic perspective. I think Dr. Craig should convert to Islam, being the learned man that he is, because I don't see how he can maintain a belief in the absolute Oneness of God, while simultaneously holding on to the belief of God incarnating and become a creature. I would love to see him debate an Islamic theologian who is well-versed in Ilm ul Kalaam. Anyway, thanks for the video, I'm looking forward to watching the remaining topic regarding Adam(as).
I have to read your comments again because some of your statements escape my understanding. Unfortunately I can't be critical of Dr. Craig "from an Islamic perspective" because I stand firm on the foundational belief that God sent Jesus the Son in human form in order to show us God's love.
May I ask, do you think God has always had the attribute of "love" ? Could God have had such without any other "being" or "creation" to love? Of course I look at it from a human perspective ( human love) but maybe God's attribute of love is different than ours?
I appreciate your response because I'm searching or seeking to understand better. Peace
@@johnbrzykcy3076 By your logic god cant be all knowing before creation because only he exist.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Hi John.
"May I ask, do you think God has always had the attribute of "love" ? Could God have had such without any other "being" or "creation" to love? Of course I look at it from a human perspective ( human love) but maybe God's attribute of love is different than ours?"
God's attributes are necessarily existent, meaning that their non-existence isn't possible. This means that God has always had His attributes and He always will. God, nor His attributes, are in time, though, so we shouldn't think of God as moving through time. He doesn't reach points on a timeline that have a 'before' and an 'after' to them. Attributes are traits that He has, but He is not His attributes, and they're not other than Him. They are 'attributes', full stop.
God's attributes being beginninglessly eternal, ever-lasting, and necessarily existent automatically means that they are not like the attributes of human beings, which are in fact not intrinsically necessary in their existence, but merely possible, and they are not eternal, but temporal; i.e. our attributes are created, and God's attributes are definitely not. In Islamic theology, it's often said that whoever attributes to God a meaning that has a meaning from among the attributes of created beings, has committed blasphemy.
So take the attribute of "being capable to show love". By necessity we must affirm that God's attribute of having the ability to love is without beginning, but remember that "past eternity" doesn't mean "a very long time in the past", or "a time, passed", when referring to God's existence and that of His attributes. So yes, God is always attributed with "love", but He is perfect and doesn't have any needs or wants, so that it's incorrect to say that there must have always been an object of God's love, or "a beloved". Not only does this immediately plant the seed of polytheism, since now you're introducing another, besides God, who is supposedly necessary in his existence as well, but it's also claiming that God is imperfect. This is because it's less than perfect to have the need of the existence of a beloved, and it's definitely better to not have such a need. A need is a want; a yearning to have a thing that isn't there, or a thing that must be fulfilled in order for you to feel complete, right? So it's basically saying that unless there is a second necessary being, God is lacking something, and how can God lack a thing?
Rather, you could say that God has always loved whatever He has loved, because He isn't confined to the passing of time, and He knows all things, always. You could even say that God loved Jesus, even when Jesus didn't exist yet. You can say that God is The Creator, even when He existed, and nothing else existed. In other words, God does not pass through a state of time called 'before creating John' and 'after creating John', because He is not in time. What this means isn't something we can know through personal experience, because we wouldn't know what it means to have always existed, but we know what it means through reflection and by definitions.
It must be understood that God’s creating is not a sequential action, it is an action without a how. It has no beginning or end. If it was sequential, one previously non-existent action coming into existence after another, then each action would itself need to be brought into existence. This is because it did not exist previously. Then if that action of bringing the action into existence also had a beginning, we would need a bringing into existence of that one also, etc. to infinity, which would mean that one single act of creating would need an infinite amount of bringings into existence prior to it. This means that the act of creating can’t ever exist, because the prerequisite infinite amount of bringings into existence cannot ever be concluded. The solution to this is to say that God’s act of bringing into existence does not have a beginning, and therefore does not need to be brought into existence. The time factor only pertains to creations.
If God 'needs' a beloved, in order for His attribute of 'love' to have any meaning to you, then what do we do with His attributes of Mercy and Wrath, for example? God's Mercy means that He forgives creatures that commit sinful actions. Does this then mean that there must have been a sinful creature in existence, since past eternity, that God has been forgiving since beginningless eternity? His attribute of Wrath means that He punishes creatures that commit sinful actions. Does that mean that God has been punishing a sinful creature since past eternity? All of this accomplishes is that you are forced to believe that at least one creature is attributed with existing without beginning, which is impossible, because being created, by definition, means that you had a beginning to your existence. It's placing God in time, and it's ascribing divine attributes to creations, and it's playing around with polytheism, since whatever is said to exist as an intrinsic necessity (i.e. without beginning), really is God. And you can't claim that Jesus must have been God's eternal beloved, who himself existed since past eternity, but that he's also the eternal object of God's forgiveness or punishment, because that necessitates the eternal existence of a sinful being in need of God's Mercy or deserving of His Wrath. So if not Jesus, then who or what is that being?
@@wudafek8561 I don't understand your comment, sorry.
@@XaeeD You seem to like to explain things in a very scholarly way but I need to read your comments slowly because I don't quite follow everything you say. I guess I'm lacking some ability to understand everything.
Your examples of "mercy and Wrath" are somewhat enlightening because those attributes may have a correlation to God's other attributes, including love.
I agree with you that God "is not in time." I believe He may have "entered" time in order to communicate with prophets. Correct?
I don't believe that Jesus was a "second necessary being" but I do believe that Jesus could have entered into "time" in human form to show us God's love. But Jesus' exact identity seems to elude me. I still believe Jesus was more than a mere man or just another prophet.
Anyhow... I hope I can keep learning although I'm getting old. Thanks for your respectful reply. Peace
Keep going Mr paul
This video is still surreal for me tbh.
MashaAllah brother Paul you really tranformed and flourished. May Allah increase you in goodness.
Assalamualaikum Paul. Thank you for the work you're doing. I pray that Allah protects you.
I thought Paul and Craig were sitting in the same room. Books on books on books 📚
The Kalam cosmological argument goes back all the way to Aristotle, ofc it can spread or evolve but it’s never been a Christian or Islam thing instead an idea of many philosophers back then
Nice a Chrestian scholar on the channel.
Deeply engaging discourse, Muslims and Christians do have common grounds at the cosmological level to argue against atheism. Many thanks Bro. Paul.
When a Muslim or a Christian uses the cosmological argument, all you have to do is ask them...
"What does your holy book actually say regarding the cosmological argument?"
That will be the last time you hear from them.
I am fine,Alhamduillah,
I so enjoyed this lovely conversation
We don't need WLC to defend the arguments for God's existence. He is a man who has chosen to push back the truth of Islam and hold on to his Christian prejudices
nice convo..thanks Paul
Dr William Lane Graig displays the aura of graciousness that Muslims love in their Christian Brethren.
That's a very nice statement. Thanks
Great channel!
Would love to see you interviewing Sheikh Imran Hosein on Islamic Eschatology.
Mega.
May Allah guide him and Lennox to Islam.
Dr Craig states the uncaused cause must be timeless, spaceless, immaterial and powerful but how do Christians reconcile and fit Jesus into these categories?
Brilliant! Really enjoyed that
I think that you should have discussed the possibility of infinite regression
Great discussion as per usual. Bring on David Berlinksi and give him dawac please 🤣
*Not sure about his view! If he thinks the scripture he believes in contains myths (i.e. lies), how on earth does he continue believing in it?*
*And OMG, after all these researches and studies, he still wants to argue for trinity?*
*It is obvious that he puts his beliefs first then he looks for evidences to support them. He doesn't begin with a neutral view. He begins as biased.*
Messengers are the proof of God!
God’s judgment appeared on earth on those nations where messengers were sent!
Mytho-historical model presented here for the understanding of Genesis may cast a deep shadow on the inspiration of the Scripture.The Scripture is silent whether a human-like creatures existed before Adam. To argue from silence lends you in dangerous grounds. I do have great respect for Dr Craig but I dis agree on this approach. Having said that I do believe he is a committed Christian who cannot easily be shaken in his faith by the onslaught of skeptics.
Dr. Craig is very careful with the words he uses.
Thanks Paul for the interview.
Answers in Genesis says DNA doesn't generate with time, it DEgenerates. Our image ("homosapians"), has always been the same and will remain. God, and His image, are unchanging.
Even the sub atomic particles are created by G-d. The physicist did not contradict that “ G-d did Create the Sub-Atomic Events and Particles”. Esse And Essence