The Passive-Aggressive Covert Narcissist (Interview with Debbie Mirza)
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- Today I interviewed Debbie Mirza, author of a new book called The Covert Passive-Aggressive Narcissist, available on Amazon. In this video we are talking about the traits of covert narcissists, how they differ from overt narcissists and what’s the best defense against covert narcs.
Debbie's RUclips channel: / @debbiemirza1744
Debbie's website: debbiemirza.com/
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NOTE: Meredith Miller is not a therapist or counselor. She is a holistic integration coach, helping you to self-heal and transform your life after narcissistic abuse and toxic relationships. Meredith teaches the mindsets and tactical skills to help with recovery. She works with a mind-body-spirit approach to wellness that is a valuable complement to traditional psychotherapy. Meredith recommends that you also seek out a licensed therapist who has experience with narcissistic abuse and relational trauma in order to help you with the complex-PTSD symptoms. Thank you for taking responsibility for yourself!
I'm no longer offering one-on-one coaching sessions so I've partnered with BetterHelp, an affordable online therapy portal where you can get matched with a licensed counselor who specializes in abuse and trauma. - Get 10% off your first month with this link: betterhelp.com/innerintegration
I am suffering a lot with a relationship with a sociopath.
I got a baby with him. I don't know how to go out of this situation.
I don't have a lot money for pay 120 £.
If you are unable to work this out you may have to leave. There are women shelters out there if you don’t have family to take you in.
With better help are we able to pay week by week? I would to try it out but if I dont think it's for me do I have to pay for the full month?
@@user-uk3iy1mi9o I use BetterHelp and I think there are three payment methods, you can get one week, 4 weeks, or 8 weeks I think. Billing is automatic after whatever your selected payment plan is. It’s also cheaper to get more sessions at once than single sessions but the single sessions are useful if you feel that you struggle to find a good therapist. I found that the first therapist I was paired with was perfect for me. It’s honestly changed my life and I would recommend this service to anyone looking for online counseling. You can even message and have calls with your counselor between sessions! It’s awesome.
Thank you , but I have report my spending so I am not able to get it
A big part of the covert narcissist’s game is getting you to distrust yourself.
Almamater8888 yessssss omg
Thumbs up. I don't even know if I'm the narcissist or not at this point. I just want to kill my self because I can't trust anyone or myself. I've been told before that I'm a narcissist, and I really don't know if it was true or not. All I know is that I am in a perpetual state of pain and self hatred. I listen to these videos, but they don't help me because I can see little bits here and there that seem to be a part of everyone and myself. All I know is that I can't stop hurting or thinking about it
Almamater8888, he succeeded, I was actually letting him take credit for my artwork because I was so unsure of myself.
@@iisaka_station A true narcissist would never analyze themselves like you are doing. After all according to them they're perfect and everyone else is screwed up.
Well Said!
“Your body is the most accurate barometer you have” ❤️👏👏👏❤️
yes because the body keeps the score, also a great book!
Fibromyalgia. Since 12 years old. Unexplained chronic pain, anxiety & depression. Irritable bowel syndrome. Skin rashes. CPTSD. Chronic Fatigue. It’s taken me 30 years to figure out what’s been going on. I was just in hospital for Anaemia. It has real costs for the body.
Laura Mundy yes! Same here! Anxiety, depression, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, constipation, throat closing, PTSD, anorexia, bulimia, and more! It's slow torturous killing. I grew up in the house of two abusive narcs and my ex of 9 years is a narc. They literally are literally predators that rip off the skin of the prey and slowly pull off its limbs before killing.
To anyone who has suffered? I am a survivor myself who having experienced a Narcissistic family to then meeting guys like it. I survived a relationship that almost cost me my life. And I had to do a lot of work in myself and finally I am a stage in my life as a person I have health conditions as a result of my head injury that I endured called Dystonia, functional Neurological Disorder. And I chose to be creative with my blog to help people so if you fancy seeing anything that benefits your wellbeing. Feel free to look at my blog- The Wellbeing Warrior. There’s not much content about it this particular video stood out for me and I decided to put this on my blog. So I wish to thank these inspirational woman who are sharing about the psychology and the dynamics in these “ toxic relationships!” Blessings to anyone who is suffering or has survived. 🙏🏼😇🙏🏼🙏🏼🕊💫❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@lauratheexplorer6390 I have Dystonia Functional Neurological Disorder and fibromyalgia and get what you are saying. Feel free to reach out to me or check out my blog “ The Wellbeing Warrior “ on tumblr where I have created a space to help people in various ways. But you may find some helpful content not just on abuse etc... but meditation 🧘♀️ techniques etc... blessings to you 🌷🙏🏼🌷🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
With coverts, a lot of the issue is what they DON'T do. They will severely neglect and ignore their spouse and kids.
No. A lot of the issue is what they do very subtlely. It's the emotional abuse that they can get away with, that's hard to call out.
Humble Wonder right and when you call it out, they easily accuse you of being the one causing the trouble
@@nh55871 yes or they DARVO and make themselves the victim some other way
My ex Narc would take off to his house and ignore me ,, abandon me for weeks on end ,, No contact whatsoever!,,,, how abusive and destructive,,,, Pure Evil 👿
And the neglect is turned on us for being too needy or attention seeking
“When you’re the only one that can see the truth and it’s very lonely” I started turning to these narcs videos because it helps me to know that I’m not alone and I’m not the only one who feel this. So glad I found your channel.
Nobody understands unless uve lived it. Recognise the red flags in future. Don't waste your years with these people. All the best it's a horrible experience
Debbie speaks too slow, very boring and almost sounds like she is not knowledgeable. Needs to take a public speaking course. Does not keep one's arrention
Being "punished" for having natural reactions and emotions...
Jamie Ritchey yes! I have believed for many years that I was too emotional and over reactive. 😔
AMEN!
yes yes yesss!!!!
Always trust your own judgment.
I'm so relieved to have seen this video. I have been in this relationship for years and couldn't understand why I felt so awful about it.
He's covert and abusive and he manipulates everything.
The covert narcs are a master at the subtle back handed put downs.
My sibling good that slight jabs at me . It’s never straight up . It’s subtle put downs .
Heather Mooney exactly! I always wondered why none of the so called friends, I believed were friends, never once called to ask me what was going on or anything! Not a single one! Whatever he told them they believed & I was discarded by all too.
Only one has stayed in touch as it turns out her ex is also a covert narcissist.
I definitely listen to my gut about everything now. I won’t waste time with confrontation, I simply walk away & cut them out of my life in every way possible.
Coverts are so calculating in everything they do, they KNOW what they’re doing & your pain is a succulent dessert for them. Their cruelty knows no bounds & they will suck you dry leaving you a discarded shell.
I’m wondering if I really was a victim of that. Not sure if it’s disbelief or hesitance to finish throwing my best pal under the bus, but he’d say things to be frank and I wonder if it was really just that. I just took a lot as playfully jabbing banter too, but they day there’s a little seriousness behind every joke. I’m still not sure since he’s a threshold case and does have feelings and other elements of more normal presentation.
Better known as throwing shade.
Had experience with both Overt and Covert Narcs, Covert was worse by far. Don't underestimate them, especially if you make an enemy of them. Insidious, manipulative, vicious people.
I just discovered one of my friends is at least partly a covert narcissist, and i plan to slowly distance myself and never reveal that i am on to them. It would be too dangerous, they are friends with all of my friends.
Indeed. Overly despicable.
100% true. They know no limits. If they need to partnerd with previous enemie of them in order to harm you, they will. I'd say that covert ones are the closest to psychopaths that exist!
And the pain lies in the fact that you are alone because NOONE , absolutely NOONE gets its...so, therefore, we are ALONE
PLEASE ADDRESS THIS FACT. thank you
alisonbuchanan4. I am reaching out to you because I know that feeling SO well. It doesn’t have to feel that way once we understand that YOU ALONE are enough. Being alone is a perceived condition, and the narcissist loves to create that condition in us. But it’s an illusion. We choose whether to buy into it or not. Now whenever I feel alone, I remind myself that my company is good company because I can care for myself. I recommend a long road trip by yourself to give you a feeling of autonomy. Blessings.
You are only alone until you leave the PNARC then in a short while you start to love yourself again and meet new friends ! !
Alisonbuchanon4; You hit the nail on the head No one gets it, unless they've been there. I just took yesterday off due to my boss enabling a coworker on Thurs. I noticed a pattern that at the end of Every month this covert coworker tries to distract me and interfere with things that have nothing to do with her work in order to break my focus on getting the monthly payroll done. But She acts like she's trying to be helpful. So this time I went to my supervisor to ask tell her to get out of my lane. He starts enabling by saying, maybe she's just bla-bla-bla, and I said no and before I could say that there's a pattern he comes up with another 'maybe'/excuse. At that point I just said, 'okay never mind'. And 'He flips out on me! He starts hollering, "look at the way you're acting, I'm just trying to have a conversation with you. GET OUT OF MY OFFICE! As I left I said, you never listen to me. I have no idea what he hollered as the door closed.
I wrestled with the craziness of it all. The doubts that maybe it is me and I'm just paranoid having been in a covert relationship that I ended 3yrs ago when it got physically abusive. But it was DV all along. Exactly what has been described in this video.
I have no idea how to trust people anymore, and sometimes even trusting myself is challenging. But when I know in my heart of hearts that I'm being sabatoged I have found no one that will support me.
I remember going to HR 3x's, over a 2yr period, about the sexual harassment by my last supervisor.
I was told, 'that's not okay" and then I was handed a pamphlet to go see the staff psychologist.
There are a lot of days where I just don't give a damn anymore. Then I come across a video like this and comments like yours that let me know I'm not crazy.
Is there a word that can top ALONE? I have never ever thought about suicide or giving up on life and just giving up until now! There is soooo much chaos and struggle! I had a doctor of 20 years that wanted to literally kill me because I said something that hurt his feelings ( another narc!, took me off meds he put me on COLD TURKEY, I LITERALLY ALMOST DIED, Got told I had to find a place to stay because she got married, needed a place to stay and HE FOUND ME!! HE HAS FED ME ALL THE LINES, HELPED ME THRU THE DETOX HORROR, I LOST MY JOB, LOST MY STORAGE UNIT that had allll my kid's things they made, pictures, a lifetime of memories gone! I could NOT THINK DURING THE DETOX HELL. He COUKD HAVE HELPED, BUT "Didnt have money"!... A lie!! I want to screammm and just go to his job today and confront the person I am SURE he is messing with!! She is. 35 years old! He cant have sex, but can give at 71 years old. She is married and has a husband with $$. Its a long story to explain hpw I am sure its her. Evidence. But not ABSOLUTE CONCRETE. He started this job and pulled away emotionally, and in allll ways at home but when I confronted his actions, he said I was depressed all the time!! I am the most opposite of depressed there is! It was bad! The rage! I went SILENT AS HE WAS RUNNING HIS MOUTH AND WALKED AWAY! After 2 days of me not doing crap for him or talking to him, he began asking me what was going on with me. I told him how I felt again I told him I felt it might be the girl he worked with even though yes she is half his age. He asked me what gave me that impression and I told him that it's something that a girl knows when she's around another woman and they're interested in their man it's the way she acts she was acting overly nice to me when I first met her and probably taught me 15-20 minutes about nothing really and I could just feel it. The routine here has been he gets up early in the morning goes to work an hour early to go to McDonald's and get himself something to eat sit and just relax and have coffee before his shift well I decided I was going to follow him one morning and I'll be dang as I was following him I missed him by like 2 minutes and he met somebody don't know who because I didn't get to see it across the street from his bank. The maps literally took me right to the place they met Okay. So ironically the very day were talking about this which was a Friday last Friday we were down in an area completely opposite of where we live to eat seafood afterwards we stopped by a convenience store and she just randomly happened to be in the same area which she doesn't live in that area and neither do we which is okay she did that because I think that was a coincidence cuz she had her daughter with her which is trying to give away puppies the thing that got my attention there was he didn't go over to say hello or anything because that's just odd if you know someone you work with why wouldn't you like bring me over there to talk to her which was fine I'll let it go and the next morning this is the catcher right here we were leaving to go to his sister's house to cut grass early in the morning again routine he gets up early in the morning and normally when we go to cut grass we go together to McDonald's to get our biscuit and go head out to her area she owns five acres of land she's an elderly person that can't do it so we go out to help her while as we went that morning to go to the bank to get money and then go to McDonalds who was across the street sitting in her car just sitting there and of course I lost my ever-loving mind I can't for positive say it was her cuz I couldn't see in the window because her windows are tinted superblack but it's a department store parking lot it's the only vehicle in the whole parking lot who in the world besides her car could have been is a dark blue car with dark Windows Shades so who else could have been so of course I confront him he denies yada yada we didn't go over there cuz I said no I don't want to confront which I kicked myself now wishing I'd said yes but in just a few minutes I will be going to her workplace and taking a picture of her car because I did take a picture from across the street it was not a good picture at all. If it is her absolutely for sure I really don't know how I'm going to respond I will keep this area updated but I will say this I told him that morning if by chance they are doing anyting the husband will find out about it and then he really lost his mind then and said why would you say something like that and I said because it's the truth I don't care someone's messing with my guy that husband's going to find out and he goes why I'm not messing with her finding you ain't got nothing to worry about do you every since then like I said he has been kissing my butt. The problem with the covert because they are so sensitive and very obviously convincing and of his age and all this goofy stuff the thing is I don't I don't know and I can't understand what he could be giving her money for I know that sounds stupid but the only thing I could think of is she does do drugs not that he does neither one of us do but maybe he's helping her with it. He said to me why in the world would I take you somewhere knowing she's going to be across the street I said because you didn't know I would be across the street with you and you didn't have a chance to text her before we left so therefore that's why. Clearly this whole thing is eating me up I want to know for some reason to absolute truth I haven't caught them together red-handed but the signs are there I just in my head can't understand what she's trying to get out of him but I told him a w**** is a horn about how you look at it they want anything and everything they can get from you. And a narcissist they'll give anything just to get what they want which is attention. I won't lie and say I enjoy the attention he's giving me I feel like we're stronger and closer now than we ever been and that's what scares me I feel like it's all another illusion he sucker me back in so he can hurt me again. I wasn't attracted to him at all when I first met him he's not super attractive or anything like that when I first met him but them taking me in obviously there's trauma bonding and we slowly started kind of fooling around even though he couldn't it just is what it is but anyway clearly you can see I'm more messed up than I ever was and I can't stand this I just want to know the truth and I'm trying to find ways
"lowering your standards without noticing"
Just had that conversation yesterday and received a 101 manipulative covert lesson. I let the grandson know I was well aware bottom line i am done...I am setting boundaries. Better yet, I am through with toxic people...
"Drama gives them energy". That's right folks. The moment you see someone get the tiniest bit excited or giggly about sabotaging someone, that's when to not trust a word they say.
my flatmate does this. i've learnt to see it now, i just say her i see your condescending smirk or i feel you are being manipulative right now and she magically stops. she can't con me anymore and she knows it.
My husband literally grins while pointing out how awful he thinks I am, but I'm learning now about why. So sad.
Facts right their
100%! Definitely walk away quietly from them too. Be extremely “boring” to them (talk to them about random things like cleaning products, notebooks, etc lol). That helped me!
Mine was watching me play wii bowling (he wasn't playing against me, just watching). He would snicker and laugh excitedly when I would miss a spare or miss a strike by one pin. I thought who is this humonculous sitting there.
Bragging about you to others makes them appear to actually care about you, but more importantly, it also works as "love-bombing by proxy": when I met or saw the people he bragged to about me, they would tell me how highly he spoke of me and how lucky I was to have such a devoted husband who loved me so much. Even though I never felt his love and often felt totally unloved, hearing other people tell me how much my husband loved me and how proud he was of me made me believe it to be true.
Same experience with me.
Welcome to the crazy club, pc pc. At least now we can see it, whether we want to or not is almost irrelevant once this incredibly diabolical magic trick is revealed as a simple slight of hand.
Jenn (Hall) Nodine Going through the same thing!
They also think it boosts their ego and ups their standing if people believe they’ve been able to bag such an amazing partner, they think you’re a reflection of themselves and vice versa in that situation. If you’re amazing then they must be too
Yup
The words and actions NEVER match: ie " I love you and want to be with you" but they avoid you, never do anything with you and abandon you. They are also very sneaky and secretive.
Sounds so familiar or they say stuff like we should take a trip but never really mean it. They say "I miss you" just to Hoover you back in and then once they have you they dissapear for days and weeks at a time barely giving you anything except a "hey" text message. It's unnerving and exhausting.
Yes yes yes and YES!!!,,,,,
jett888 that’s why I don’t listen. I know what someone would do if they loved you and so it doesn’t match up.
Amen.
That's the truth. Words don't match their actions. It's simple. Ask yourself, if they truly loved me, would they (fill in the blank). Ask yourself, would I do this to them? The things they do to their partners are not from a place of love and respect.
I think it's the little digs that slowly erode your soul. That eventually destroy it.
Barefoot Prof agreed
@broody snoody well said
Yes my ex friend used to have these little digs at me with bizarre lies which led me to research on RUclips different personality types
Barefoot Prof Yes exactly! It’s the drip, drip, drip poison.
Thinking Peter Yes that happened to me too. And I was well aware of narcissism too. It would always come out when she had been drinking. She would swing from being aggressive some of the time to mostly passive aggressive. Very nasty stuff. But it was slow to build. Took years. Finally she did too much too soon and I walked. Then I checked it out. Apparently alcoholics.....which is what she had become....have something like 11 traits of the narc. Not really sure if she was one but I won’t take it off the table. Her mother was full blown and the nastiest piece of work.
She is a hoarder and I did some research on that. Apparently many of them are narcs!
The biggest danger in my opinion with the covert is that you don't see it. Fifteen years with mine and I only discovered it about 3 months ago. The abuse is subtle, can go on for years, slowly escalates because you become more accustomed to the crazy making, and it is intermixed with breadcrumbs of sweetness and kindness to keep you confused. Then the abuse escalates to the point you cannot take any more and finally learn about narcissism and start understanding what the hell has been going on all these years. The loss in years you invested, the way they left their victim utterly destroyed, and then left abandoned to get the spark you had before they killed your soul, is simply devastating. Unless you've endured it, you cannot begin to comprehend it.
Exactly!
John wentz what happened is you was at the stage where they were running you crazy and the got you thinking you crazy then you finally go searching for answers wondering why they treating you like this. Why they dont love you they dont love us cause they dont love no one not even their selves .They are straight psycopaths .Thats what i think my mother is cause know person in their right mind would treat any human being like this and they jelous of you cause you got a good heart and they trying too make you evil like them. RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN SHE NOT GOING TO CHANGE FOR YOU AND NO ONE ELSE.GOD GOT YOU BE BLEESED BECAUSE YOU ARE.
Unfortunately, I can totally relate to all of this, although I have “only” wasted two years. I’m an empath and he destroyed my heart and soul. I never knew people like this existed and spent endless nights crying and analysing everything, trying to understand what on earth is going on, of course he couldn’t care less. Then one day I started googling some words and bought a couple of books on covert narcissists and they were literally all written about him.
JOHN WENZE. YR COMMENT RANG SO TRUE 4 ME. THE YRS WASTED THE LIES CRUELTY brings u to the point where you have a Breakdown, and then you are made to believe that you must pull yourself together, isn't that what you have been doing 4 years, and in fact u have used Yr energy and emotional strength to help them. In my case, parents, and husband, and now NC with a daughter l loved and thought l new. Yes they or it does feel like they take your Soul. BUT they cannot take it it belongs to a higher power and you. In the end it saves us. Bless you.
John, I'm living it and know what you mean. Its so hard to explain to someone that has not experienced it. I feel I can't even explain it b/c its not physical. I was discarded.
Most therapists have NO idea how to work with narcissistic abuse survivors because they don´t understand everythimg that we have so clear. I´m so grateful I found you Meredith.
It is a total a waste of time and money to go to a therapist that does not understand covert narcissism and there are many that don't.
Just finished my training as a counsellor, about to do client hours...I will definitely recognise their patterns of behaviour, as I spent 26 years with one!
It was so validating to hear her say that the Covert Narcissist is difficult to spot. I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't figure out what until I stumbled onto Covert narcissism & that took years. I'm so thankful someone has focused on this particular disorder.
Exactly!! He used to grin when I’d say what is it going to be with you??!! You’re not a drug addict or alcoholic like the past two. After parents passed after 3 hard yrs of caregiving he decided to ghost me but then admitted he was getting attention elsewhere like he hadn’t had in the past few!! He got to drop the bomb on me and he felt so powerful but yet he is Fonzie to the rest of the world!!
When she said “birthdays were horrible and I don’t know why.” I broke down. I’ve never heard anyone else say that before. ♥️
I was turning#35 at the time I experienced the birthday from hell. My plan was to have Dinner and a movie but just the opposite happened. Too much to type t it didn't end well.
I reacted in exactly the same way. I totally understand this too, and so I have complete empathy with you, Cyndl.
Cyndl Brown you're not the only one. hope you are doing well and loving yourself
Girl. EVERY HOLIDAY. Even romantic ones I would plan. I literally lost it when she said that.
Tiff Bazarte YUP!!! Same
Most horrible thing I have ever endured. Still recovering 2 years later.
I hope you are healing and I understand. I hope to find a therapist that I can trust. So far I haven't.
Take care of yourself. .
Michelle Turner me too 4 yrs later
I’m so sorry. Me too. :(
so cold, distant, discarded, silent treatment, emotionally unavailable to myself & the kids, angry, he isolated himself for years and years. However, he would go help his best friend or someone else & I would hear what a great guy he is! I tried to help him, but he didn't think he had an issue. I asked him for an emotional relationship, he couldn't do it. He would listen to me talk & not respond at all, unless he was taking the other person's side. 23 yrs. & he never took my side...I was always wrong.
Oh, and the porn addiction...always making me feel inadequate.
Sorry about the porn. My ex did that too. That just tops it off.
Oh so sorry this sounds just like my ex husband 😢
I deal with this too. He also takes everyone else's side.
I once got into a car accident. They rear ended me at a stop light. When I got home I told him I was in an accident. He said, "what did you do?" I said, "well III I didn't do anything. They rear ended me." He said, "well you must have done something. People don't just hit you." I said, "yes they do. That is why it is called an accident." He said, "Well you must have slammed on your breaks in front of them then." I said, "No I did not. I was at a stop. They hit me. And by the way the first thing you should have said to me was are you okay. Not what did you do?" There have been multiple situations just like that. Some guy almost hit us in a parking lot. He was in the car with us and saw what happened and yet still looked me straight in the eye and blamed me. Yelling at me telling me how I was in the wrong when it was clearly the guy in the big suped up truck who was driving down the middle speeding without watching where he was going.
You have just accurately described my ex to the letter! Wow! These narcs really are like a cloned nation. Blows my mind when I read testimony from victims that are replications of my exact experience. How can this be?
There is always some sexual deviation with NPD. Porn addiction is actually quite mild and usually accompanied by others. Not that I don't totally get how inadequate that alone makes you feel. It's incredible torture on so many levels with these disordered shells of humans
I am literally in tears & my heart is pounding, yet at the same time I am physically getting sick to my stomach because she has so clearly explained the narcissist in my life. Thank you for having her on. Clearly you care about people with a narcissist.
He is the family gossiper but also wants to be the one that rescues them. Loves when everyone is looking to him for advice.
Oh God, they know everything and expect praise from everyone.
Omg!!! The point of "lowering your standards without noticing". So.true. By the time you realize its too late and your confused and disappointed in yourself
fitandfabulous Absolutely.
fitandfabulous yes, and notice its disappointed with your/my Self.. Effective npd conditioning strikes again :(
fitandfabulous illusions of love. Really well described. And empty people
fitandfabulous so true dear
Woooo........so true....its shattering to the core of your inner self once your eyes are open too...but lowering your standards gradually is what they do ...Strategically 😢
What the narc means when they say the hate drama is: they hate everyone else's drama. They want exclusive drama rights.
Intuition is the GPS of the soul!
Indeed. Our gut tells us when something is off.
Soul GPS is a wonderful channel too. Highly recommend. Lots of very helpful content. Good luck & look after yourselves. Peace ✌️
I feel like one sign of a covert narcissist is a lack of true connection and genuine intimacy in the relationship. they care about creating the impression that you're in a relationship more than actually having a relationship. They might tell you how much they love you, but their actions will tell you they really don't actually care about your feelings at all. You will feel that the friendship lacks stability and transparency. They are very guarded and it will feel like something very important is missing in the relationship. they are masters of deflection and will always have you believe the problem is that you are not putting enough effort into the relationship (projection)
Water colour that is exactly what i felt, experienced. Well described.
Thank you, I finally realised cognitive dissonance is an important message to pay attention to, (after years of rationalising, and giving the benefit of the doubt) We shouldn't need to be mind readers in relationships :)
Water colour i dont know really what cognitive dissonance is?
Oh, well one example might be, if you're really unclear about how someone feels about you, they tell you you're their best friend, but you often wonder if they even really like you . Or they are really unreliable and only support you in a begrudging way. It's basically the result of the words and actions not being congruent. Other examples might be they subtlety invalidate your opinions or feelings, or aren't happy for your successes but seem annoyed or distant when things are going well for you.
Water colour ah thanks. Definately with my female narc. Always unsure of the relationship. Always
I have someone living in my house that is a covert narcissist and is pure hell. I didn't realize it until I listened to your whole video. They are really good at apologizing but actions don't match.
They are so fake that there is nothing in their words. I've seen through mine CN and it became ridiculous to listen to his crap and especially to read his messages (cause they will rather send messages, leave messages around the house on paper then tell you in your face). They are cowards, liars and petty manipulators. Easily triggered to show their true face. Disgusting entities, not human beings.
I've had knots in my upper abdomen whenever I had to get with the CN, I felt sick to my stomach more times than not. They put you on the defensive when you call them out on their abuse towards you.
Tight stomach, headaches, feeling obsessed with what they mean, never feeling comfortable around someone, feeling the need to research their background or play detective by searching phone messages, rummaging through pockets, listening at doors, checking mail and bank statements, wanting to distance yourself from them are all signs that something is wrong with the relationship - even if you can't identify intellectually what it is with no actual tangible evidence to show for your energy burning efforts to feel comfortable and reassured. If you felt reassured you would not need to feel or do any of these things.
RUclips is fantastic, it has connected us all and this talk and others out there are saving people everyday ...it is a life line ;-)
I learn SO much on youtube, and before I realized the guy I was dating was "covert narscisst" he randomly shamed me for watching informative videos on youtube.. and so I did a search on Google that said something about this guy told me something I like to do is stupid.. lol
Yeah, that' what I was thinking about.
Thanks to the experts and RUclips. 😊
We have to give a huge thank you to Merideth for helping so many of us...
Well. It wont happen again.
Cold, lacking empathy, gaslighting, low in mood/disphoria, distant/emotionally absent, can be attentive with gifts & time but when being requested to be emotionally available they're absent, passive aggressive remarks & attitudes, excessive need for everything to be about them, passive aggressive punishment, entitlement, atmospheric abuse. The list is endless but it's all passive aggressive as oppose to overt & evident.
Mady L It is unfortunate that he could not model the father role better for his daughter but toxic people only tend to have one concern & one priority - themselves. I'm glad that you had the courage to ensure that you & your children were a priority & that you're no longer in the relationship. People such as that do not change. Hoping that he's not causing too much chaos with regards to custody rights etc.
Yep exactly
You're completely right. Coverts are scapegoaters who present an idea as if they're doing good things for you when they're actually working to demolish you. Usually behind the scenes though, and confronting one can be a strange experience. With an overt it's just rage, with a covert they'll just laugh, and pick a time to pick you apart. It won't be when you expect it.
Well with a covert, should you choose to confront them, generally you can expect gaslighting, more of them playing the victim card, pseudo stupidity (pretending to have absolutely no idea what you could possibly be referring to) & promises to be better, should it eventually strike them that they're losing this battle (which it generally doesn't). Passive aggressive remarks, an air of superiority yet an inferiority complex & word salad is what can be frustrating expected with a covert.
:(
I love at the end how they uplift each other and they both leave with smiles and feeling good about themselves and the other person. This is what healthy looks like. CLUE: if you often and usually feel small and insignificant after being in a particular person's presence and can't see any overt reason for you feeling this way, then there is something going on energetically that is very wrong. Trust this feeling!!!
Megan Peterson,You got a lovely smile 😊!!
I'm very grateful to hear this. For years I wondered if I was too sensitive. But I trust my gut now. Sensitivity is a superpower, that's why the evil Narcs don't want you to use it.
I met a Narc and a few months later would get a nauseating feeling in my stomach near them. I had strong feeling to get away from them - weeks later I felt drained and ill after spending time near them. A Narc and demonic energy vampire was a really tough lesson - I dumped them 3 months ago, no contact at all - take back your power, love yourself and heal from Narc abuse💛🧡❤️
The more you communicate with them the more ammo you give them
Tammy Larson yes it's been my biggest mistake so far
Yes they love to Draw you in it gives them the control they want
Exactly. So frustratingly true.
No Contact is the way to go.
Oh my goodness YES!!!! I’ve realized that once I Let my husband know that words of affirmation and physical touch are my “love languages” was the beginning of the REAL mental and emotional abuse. My needs became his weapons and ways of keeping me completely reliant on his validation
I eventually got to enjoy the silent treatment because if was so peaceful :)
haha this is a joke i make sometimes but i also don't really feel that great about it at the same time.
haha this is a joke i make sometimes but i also don't really feel that great about it at the same time.
It actually happened for me, I was more at peace during silent treatments. It hurt but there was something peaceful too
I’m having my last (hopefully as had enough of him finally) silent treatment and using it to watch RUclips videos on covert narcissists. I have already read 7 books on him, literally. I still feel sick to my stomach thinking about how text book his behaviour was and how I fell for it even though I’m normally a good judge of character... 😬
You fell for it because you are a GOOD person.. They are so damn good no one can see it unless you have an education in psychology. @@katalinmcewan
“These relationships are an illusion of love” , 😳this phrase sums it all.
I remember coming in from work one night..opened the house door,my narc(was upstairs)She gave me a big happy"Hi Daddy",when she heard me come in(she was giving our 1 year old son a bath)..I went up the stairs, to see a completely different demeanour to the person that just gave the big happy welcome seconds before.
Very subdued.
Dead eyes.
Very disconnected.
Zero happiness.
And this wasn't exhaustion on her behalf....this was something else..covert narcissism is very complexed,and so under the radar.
Even faced with tangible evidence they will deny it.
no point even trying. you are always the bad guy in their guys. I dislike that my sister seems to view me entirely as something i'm not and if for any reason i get negative at times it comes from a lifetime of being criticised and put down over my weight and hair colour and now over the things i say. it never ends.
Yes, I just confronted “mine” re his textbook narcissistic behaviour over the past two years (only figured out he was a covert narcissist recently after going through hell and searching for answers) and he told me that I was delusional. 😂
or just shut down and become depressed
Oh my gosh yes!!!
Jodi, that's a definite character trait of the CN. My husband gets mad at me because when I water the trees because I have forgotten and flooded the area. So when I saw that he did the same thing I mentioned it to him. He blamed our 3 lb. chihuahua, saying she must've moved the hose. Unbelievable how they can't admit to mistakes at all.
There's one thing: these people are sowers, they plant little seeds onto others' minds to induce certain feelings and opinions.
Yup, have seen this SO many times. These people are poison!
Yes they sow seeds of doubt and confusion.
@@growingandlearning164 Yes
Wow, he actually uses that phrase "planting seeds".
@@ModernDomme ~
They absolutely play the long game,.
The sabotage of things that mean the most. Omg it tears you apart.
They always say “you’re too sensitive, you’re reading into it too much” etc.
Are you really sure? I don't think you have got that right? I don't remember that detail ? You mean you are not actually doing a full days work? ( Smiles but voice increasingly distant ,lacking empathy)
Suddenly interrupts you changing subject but becomes inappropriately elated later on while largely ignoring you .Then goes quiet.Starts talking, timing herself deliberately to interfere/ talk across someone else in the room. Throws in a few bits of praise but then abruptly switches into disparaging comments ( keeps smiling ).
If you suddenly attack a covert narc catching them off guard they cannot explain why they have said something which is obvious bullshit .The masks slips.The big strain is having to concentrate all the time to make sure you are listening .If you miss something anxiety will increase.
You're too sensitive, you're too.......... fill in the blank. It's always ýou re too, and never ever them! I'd never speak to my fam the way they speak to me
"you assume people are as honest as you are" I can totally relate to this "wakeup call" *sigh* It is getting hard to trust people!
Jennifer M m
I used to say in front of my ex covert gf "eyes are the window to the soul, I can tell so much about people by just looking into their eyes" and she would say 'iiii wouldnt be so sure about that' 😳
Same here
@@joec1212 You can see it, but in close relationships, many people shut down their alarm system for a reason. 🙂
Not to sound smug, but honestly you have to be a victim of a covert narcissist to understand it fully. It is the most bizarre and sinister person you will ever meet when you start to understand just what you have let into your life. I need to look into the difference between them and a sociopath because they strike me as being very similar. These people are charming, the life of the party, god-fearing Christian types (they love that cover...it works so well), and the very least person you would EVER suspect of malevolence. But that’s what they really are all about. You don’t ever confront them.
Omg dont get on to them being christians the spiritual abuse they use is almost unforgiveable, and then quote that God commands to forgive .It is pyscological torture 😳
My adopted mother
They will sip your pain like fine wine from a crystal glass.
Ugh and being raised my a Nmom is child abuse!
Mine is not into God, he thinks he's God. Not really fair to say Christian types, they are all types really.
About giving gifts: my mom gave me a blouse once and said: "I thought it would be nice for you to have something thst looks good." All the time being nice but with that touch of evil.
Ahhh, the endless digs of the Narcissistic Mom. ... Don't dare say a word, because then you are just too overly sensitive. So predictable.
This. 100%. Expert use of the backhanded compliment.
"You'd be so pretty if you'd just smile more." "You'd be pretty if you'd just put on makeup."
@@falconbritt5461 ... geez, you're too sensitive ....
Nevermind what she's saying about you when you don't have makeup on or smile
🤨 ...
@@Skinny4406 Exactly. Then there's the direct, "You walk like a gorilla." At least that's direct, but I'm still too sensitive. ;-)
It is so vindicating to finally hear someone that understands what I've been dealing with for such a long time. Just to have someone actually understand really comforts my heart. At least I know I'm not crazy!
The covert is looking for a mommy or daddy replacement not a wife or husband.
Wow! Spot on!
So you've met my ex-husband! He claimed he wanted children but it never happened, so your comment so spot on for me....
Absolutely, when you tell them to run back to mummy their true self comes out.
Totally, I even joked to someone that I should adopt him as my child. 😂
JoJoZep ofthejungle Thats Right!
Almost makes you prefer the overt given a choice...at least you know what you are dealing with. The covert is punishing like slow torture, walking on eggshells, wondering if everything you say is being stored for future recall. Very interesting to watch.
Ian M I'm sorry to read that.
I’m so sorry for your loss. These creatures really need to be eliminated.
Wowww good point!!!!
When you tell them what bothers you, they give you a small break lol then they come back 10x worse than the first time.
💯💯💯
This is a great channel just come across it. They say oh sorry, you should have told me. 2 days later they'll be doing the exact same thing!
This has been my life since 1985. I am getting out now with the help of a great therapist, my daughter and my sister. Everything you have said is 100% spot on. No one in my life has ever seen that he has a problem. But OMG the gossip thing just blew me away. I am just now figuring this out as his method of pitting people against each other at work.
Lisa Owens,You got a lovely smile 😊
Omg!!! The drama part got me cracking up!! “I dont do drama!” (They started the drama)
Montserrat Bros EXACTLY, along with the 'I never gossip' when that's all they EVER do!
Montserrat Bros truth....... so true. Idk why they do this either.
Aint this the damn truth. A walking contradiction
In a nut shell.
Words must match actions.
Loving words with zero action is a dead end.
I would say this and he seemed confused as if he didn't understand the concept. Words are only words, actions must match what you say otherwise they are meaningless. That would make him upset.
Thank you, ladies. I was raised by a closet narcissist who had me totally in her grip for 30 years of my life. I want to believe I left early enough to rebuild.
I finally set myself free from the narc mother at 54 years old. March 2013. Happy joyous and free
As I was listening the video I was crying, because there in front of me was my life... Cognitive dissonance the most powerful thing that kept me in my marriage with a covert narcissist. I'm trying to heel all my traumas from my childhood until now. No more doubts about who i am, what i see and feel. I learned to trust myself. I now know what my relationship wasn't and what isn't.
Sorry for my English I'm not American.
This makes me just want to stay single forever.
Ha. Ha!!! Hilarious!
Disguised as concern by telling/worrying you by listing all the negative things that can happen to you if you dont do what they want you to do. They feed off of adding stress to a stressful situation.
They create drama anywhere they go, they feed on drama. They are pathetic! 🤨
The covert can turn overt when you catch on and leave.
Absolutely. Always behind the scenes. They're despicable. Such drama queens.
Yes!
you have to be the person closest to the covert to be the chosen one to serve the majority of the covert’s needs and see them for who they really are;
people on the periphery are not abused or manipulated or impacted by the covert or to a great enough extent to see it
Stephanie Bynum you’re 100% right!!! No one believed me when I tried to explain the CONSTANT manipulation and gaslighting. He had perfected his fake public persona, and By the time I realized who I was married too, the outside world thought he was the perfect husband
Look up "dog whistling narcissist" it will blow your mind... that have trigger / code words they insert in to a public conversation to trigger some specific past pain in only you, that still sounds like a normal conversation to everyone else. I never knew the name for this behaviour until very recently. Covert Narcissists are the worst kind of creeping venom.
Thats so true.they save most of their abuse for their main supply source.
You have to be close enough to the fire to burn..
Learned the lesson, paid the prize, got out alive, took the trip back to earth, landed the spaceship, scorched and beaten up....and now im analyzing the data.....wooow what a trip... and thanks to the narcissist, for beeing the messenger, telling me what i need to work on.😎🤘🏻
ace
Allan ... No. Your statement might reflect an ok attitude for someone coming out of a short relationship with a narco but for children going through entire lifetime of narco abuse and having to go no-contact with people they do still love (or being completely shunned by those people) is just absolutely heart-wrenching and sickening. It's total psy-op abuse, period. There's no "thanking the narco" for using you as a host for their parasitism for all your formative years of life. This is a very serious topic. Most of us who've Truly gone through this kind of abuse have had to make lemonaid out of lemons for way, way, way too long, so please don't make light of it by implying that a survivor should just "be thankful" to the narco for the "amazing ride" - that is yet another way to try and diminish the seriousness of it and deflect responsibility of the narco for what they've put on someone else. We survivors have been taking responsibility for the narcos for far, far too long. Basically your statement is blame-shifting.
Allan Lauritsen Hahahaha! Exactly what I’m feeling now. Just went through the discard phase. My eyes are open now.
I love that comment TOXIC HOPE. That explains so much.
Nearly everything you two are saying is Spot on to my marriage of 34 years. I kept saying before I married him. Something is not right. But I could not put my finger on what. Everyone I talked to told me how wonderful he was and I would be crazy not to marry him. But all my warning flags were flying high and I just caved and listened to everyone's praises. But my reality with him. Is like living a ROLLER COASTER NIGHTMARE. The Birthday thing made me laugh out loud. I wondered why he picked a fight on every one of my birthdays and the next day would pretend to want to bring you flowers. Every holiday the same. I have not received gifts or tenderness, or compassion when sick. I feel like I am Cinderella before the Ball and He is the Wicked Step Parent. I have just recently figured out that he is a Covert Narcissist with a Sociopathic override. OMG, how enlightening for me, but my other family members still are being so fooled and easily manipulated by his shit. Can't wait till they all see through him.
I have the same story!!!! 15 yrs, as soon as I was dependent on him, he started the discard phase!
I hear you
I’m at 34 years 30 married and just finally figuring it out
It is like a frog sat in hot water will let itself be boiled to death
Being groomed to just not even know if I’m being slowly
Strategically dismantled
False flattery and superficial love bombing.
Always a motive behind the flattery or affection....it's never about your worth to them.
Ugh, it was usually done in front of his friends. He'd say, look how gorgeous she is, I'm so lucky to have such a wonderful woman in my life blah, blah, blah🙄
He would never make me feel that way, only lip service, such a lonely existence. I felt starved of love, affection or care. Never really wanted to know me on a deep level, or have intimate conversations and when I would bring up any emotions about how I was feeling about the relationship or the lack of it he would fly into a rage.Truly heartbreaking.
"That toxic hope...."
That's Oxytocin that spikes "in anticipation of being loved". Great vid.
Hope dope
Sometimes this type withholds compliments. Or gives backhanded ones. They’ll only give nice compliments once in a while. Thank you for helping so many people 😊
Compliments are given as a reward for being a submissive character in their game or for getting you hooked before they reveal their real colors.
@@laurenholly1849 , you nailed it!
👏👏👏
My mother doesn’t compliment me at all but apparently she brags about me to everyone. To my face, she tries to tear me down but to the world, I’m amazing! It’s the biggest mind phuck!
So true
Your a great father but ur a horrible person. You've a lovely face but ur just nasty. Your a lovely person till people get to know you.
My stomach tightens every time he calls me, when I’m driving home and he is there or when I’m home and I hear him coming in. He rarely answers me the first time I ask him a question. I have to repeat my self several times. I could go on and on.
The red pillers call it initiating dread
Totally understand what you are going through
15:40 yes my mother always talks about other peoples daughters like they are perfect :) and she doesnt say it but means I cannot measure up! wow!
They seem to say things to make you feel small so it gives them control over you.
You are beautiful and theres something seriously wrong with her that she feels the need to passively aggressively compare you. You are worthy, and please look up reprogramming and or learned behavior by a narc.
I know the feeling, I used to get told at 6 my friends were all clever, why did she have to have the stupid daughter.
@@lisacoates4967
I feel your pain but don't worry we are all God's children.
He doesn'tcare if we are famous smart etc. He loves us anyway.
@@lisacoates4967
Your entitled to your opinion✨☄❤🕊
We are more to life than what's on this earth.
We are the only intellectual beings on the earth and have dominion over it.
There are angels and demons etc.
We are ruled by princes' and principalities invisibly and for some people they've actually experienced the paranormal.
Anyway, I don't want to start preaching. To each his own.
Seek n you'll find. I walk by faith not by sight. We all have free choice. Much Love to you ☺😇
Yes, yes, yes, covert narcissists, you can FEEL the rage. The partner I had would never shout, no verbal abuse but I felt edgy around him, I could sense he was always angry. I would ask him gently sometimes and he would dismiss it uite defensively but I was left feeling depressed and uncomfortable because I could FEEL it. Most red flags are not seen, they are FELT
Very well said!! Wow, my eyes have been very opened. I always thought I was too sensitive, I'd get yelled at for any questions/skepticism, etc. "You are overthinking this", or "look at all you have, why are you worried about this". Anything to dismiss and covertly admonish your thoughts or feelings.
Yes..Sometimes a little bit of the rage comes out as if from nowhere, usually in a spiteful remark.Leaves you feeling confused, uneasy and off balance.
Yes. Exactly. I am so glad you said this. This is what I have been dealing with and I can never explain it.
@MrsAnn indeed it is. The damage done by these specific type of covert narcs is irreparable, it's caused me life long harm and lots of time trying to figure out why. Happy holidays to you.x.
12 years and I am only an eggshell of my former self now. This is so empowering for me. Im at the point where I’m very angry now after I’ve realized how submissive I have been. I don’t wanna do this anymore but I’m running in circles...😭
April Pryor try to get out, it only gets worse. Thirty one years with my husband/narc has left me feeling so angry and bitter. I just want revenge but how. Leaving is the best solution. Start over fresh and be careful next time.
I’m 70 years old so I don’t think I need any growing up to do...I just need to realize that my narcissist isn’t going to change his ways...and I might as well give up caring for him..
You must set your own boundaries. Write in a paper your boundaries. And after try to re enforce them. Ans also important: learn to say no.
1) trust yourself and what you know to be true about him. 2) Do not isolate 3) find the courage to make a new life for yourself. Narcissistic behavior does not simmer down as a person gets older.
I spent the weekend of my father's funeral comforting my wife who was scared of losing her own parents one day.
She would sabotage everything we did, but if I got frustrated about it then the issue was suddenly that I have an anger problem. I would apologize for getting frustrated, and she would forgive me, but we would never get to the sabotage which derailed things to begin with.
The kind things she said were always the precursor to wanting something.
I didn't see any of this until I was divorced, and started reading about the P-A Covert Narc
My narc was constantly with a migraine or a stomach ache - sick all the time the migraines never ending
Sunshine andloveinside,You don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
The “communication” thing is such a trap. It is the most subtle form of gaslighting.
Hi have learnt this, i was not sure but i have been suspecting my boyfriend to be covert narc, this man you cant communicate with him, be it in whatsapp or in real, in whatsapp this narc could only communicate with sending his pictures, and the family, this guy is ever busy either with family, extended families, friends, partying with friends, he always seems restless, but i think he tried to manupulate me but he failed, anytime im with him, my brain never function, i cant remember anything when im with him,my brain is always shut, i thought of going to see memory doctor, he started calling me names that im crazy, eventhough, have never spend a full whole day with him, all what i know hes so full of himself, this man has no empathy, have always been asking him, his sence of humour, another thing, whenever we text his text are based on sexting and exchanging pictures, in this case he can adjust his words, without, he could ignored my text or send me two words, o was sick this man never text me askibg me how im feeling, at some point i asked him, why he has no homour, not even asking me how was my day, all base on him, i have always to initiate conversation, he likes ghosting me, but i didnt know anything about narc, i remember recentely i told him i wont fall a victim of his narcissist approach, i even told him im tired of his pictures coz i dont date pictures and are not of my intrest since im a woman, i told him to look for anothing victim whom will be praising his pictures, sexting him and exchanging nudes, i didnt know about supply, he always focused on what i dont like, when we first met, i complained several times him sending me pictures and requesting me constantly to send him my pictures in return, after doing online research i thought it was normal, he lured me on this, he stated sending me his pictures in GIF, o exploded, i insult him ,call him names, i even forwarded online article of narcissist, buy focusing on his look ,i told hime never to send me GIF anymore,covert are like small kids, they never listen, recently he started sending me his Videos with Bloomberg, i asked him if his back to GIF, i was so furios, i again i told him i dont have enough space on my phone to store such stupid videos with scary facial Expression, he stopped for one week he started again, i remember he once told me im so diffrence with all his girls, i know why he told me this because im never agreed in Supply. .have been with him for 1 1/2, i dont his friends, even though this man has alot of friends, both male and females, now im starting to believe even the pictures of him with girls hes been sending me, im starting to believe this were the Supply. ..have never seen a male man with lots of friends, hes always busy, he could mert me in the day or afternoon, i once spend a night at his place, the guy was so restless till i started to be restless, he faked a phone call that his collique need a hard disk at 01:00am in the night, i told him im not going anywhere that im tired ,if he feels likes going he can locked me inside, it was away of throwing me out, he eventually asked to pay me taxi, simply because, i asked him, why communication is a problem between us, thats how he blew he used the excuse that its me who is taking time to reply, if you see our that my chat are lenthy his chats are not longer than four words,this approach draines me to core, often times after confronting him of his behaviour, ill end up apologising not knowing the reason for that, hes words does not march his action, his so selfish, greedy,he has never invited me for dinner or lunch, even if i asked him help maybe with my studies, or something at home is broken, he has never helped me.. God not going back let him ghost me, he doesnt want to block me, i wont block him,let me give him hopes ill be back as always, he will really wait..., i wished to spend time with him, grt to know him, but this man denies me access to know him... let him find another Supply. .
@@nyinyibito1757 If this person is so horrible, why are you with him? Leave. Don't question yourself. This post says it all. It's how you feel. It's valid. Just... leave him.
They don't share, they gather ammunition.
@@shannon8315 If they do share information, it's all fabricated.
They aren't communicating, at least not how I understand it to be. My mom now 80, knows absolutely near zero about who I was as a child about what I felt or thought or who I was and now at 56 she still has no clue. They don't and aren't interested in communication because they feel no need to know you
It's difficult when you grow up with a parent that is narcissist (overt or covert). You can have great intentions in your relationships, but you've grown up being trained that anything you're feeling is not valid if it's not convenient. As an adult you can really struggle with open communication and find yourself resorting to some of those passive aggressive tactics without even fully realizing it until later. Part of it is that when you do want or need something you fear you'll be dismissed or considered too needy if you outright ask for it. You (often unfairly) assume the person just won't listen or care. The need doesn't go away though, and so those feelings seep out at times in ways that are less healthy than honest and open communication.
Me thank you for sharing this, you articulated how I feel
and how I am in relationships! At 45yo I have been working on myself for the past 2 years and healing decades of trauma inflicted on me by my Narc mother. Now I can see how my self worth was smashed at a young age and how I often attract subconsciously a Narc partner. It’s so frustrating! So much work to do and I can see how the programming as a child is keeping me stuck in trauma now. I’ve just figured out words and sentences that were said to me during my childhood, that have been running my subconscious all my adult life! So grateful to Meredith and her amazing work and the community here. I always know I can come here and I am understood not judged! 🙏🏻💞
Less us more. Don't overshare. I tell myself this everyday!
This I think describes me, but I also think I am a covert narc myself. I've been raised by a dad who I think he really hated me , never gave me anything emotionally. I think that I am a covert b cause I don't want people be around me sometimes and I think most of the time only at myself. I also am cold with people, what's the deal could I be an covert ? I mean even if am I'm, I don't wanna abuse others . I've done it in the past and it was so freaking lame , I'm a piece of shit for this I know. I don't wanna drag attention or something , but I don't know,
@@coastcrystal7671 thanks bro , God bless you and your family .
This is so true. I grew up in a narc household and struggle to ask for help or ask for simple things to get my needs met. Over the years I have isolated myself from people to avoid rejection.
I'm so emotional. Yep, gave me the silent treatment. Made me out to be crazy. Nothing is wrong, I'm just watching tv. What are you talking about?
At 1st, i thought the silent treatment was just him needing alone time coz everyone needs that so i gave it to him. Then after a while i detected it for what it was and became upset, then i got sick of it and decided to just show him a mirror of what he was, and i became indignant. This made it an easy transition to "yep... u do u, i'll do me and when u try this crap, i'ma go aaaaaalllllll the way over there to do me & i'ma enjoy myself with my own life & distractions & friends & have fun & i'll come back when & if i want with a smile on my face, & i know that one day, i'll come back way after ur silent treatment has ended & u'll know that ur not in control. So be careful how much u intend to punish me, coz i don't have to take this crap, and regret will be more ur friend than mine :)"
And after i behaved like this long enough, not only did i not want to go back, but i realized that i was stong enough to be alone as well coz he'd left me alone for so long, that i realized i was doing all the work myself without his help or support ... i found me without him.
His attempt to control me by covert means became his downfall and his loss...
I have the perfect example of what your talking about.
He says to me..."your so beautiful...even those lines in between your eyebrows" With a smirk on his face when he said it too.
Fully knowing I was insecure about that.
I was like...what the hell kind of compliment was that? A backhanded one! But that's what they do.
Reality Check Ugh, that's awful! My favorite backhanded compliment I got from my ex was, "I still find you attractive." Gee, thanks, that makes me feel great. 😒 Any kind of compliment from him was few and far between over the course of our 20 year relationship. As time went on, I got the impression it was almost painful for him to voice them.
Laura Neary Smith it takes a very weak person to have to try and crush someone else's self esteem to make themselves feel better. It's pathetic really
I lost 30 lbs and he never, ever acknowledged it or praised my efforts. Do you know how hard it is to lose wt, especailly with a fat-shaming NPD?
@RC
That's also a technique called "negging" I think. It's used in social settings too to pick up women and it works.
Jay Klaxton Can you elaborate a bit?
I lowered my standards big time! I loved him so much and wanted it to be right I allowed big, huge things to continue to happen. Not to say I didn’t try, was always made to feel I should take another pill and calm down, I was remembering wrong, I blew it out of proportion...it was always thrown in my lap. Yet the hard evidence of what HE DID DO was right there. He did switch legal documents, he did manipulate me with two financial documents, he did allow his sons to disrespect me, he did disappear twice for weeks at a time, so much more. He DID DO these things, I’m not crazy. I am divorced now and struggling because I fell in love with a robotic shell of a man who only had me around because it suited him. It is a huge awakening to know I was being honest with everything I did and he was being dishonest. It was painful and I still struggle with self doubt even today knowing the truth. He absolutely shredded my heart and fed it to the wolves.
Wake Up soo true eerily similar to the last 21 yrs of my life I truly feel your pain. At this point onward March is my war cry .Attempting to re enter society after 21 yrs of being a domestic goddess🤱🏃♀️what are u good at well honestly hard work and a million little things no one else had time for starters . Maybe a fixer ?
Wake Up he is the wolf! But you’re talking about my life as well! Oh the show for either all to say how awesome he is or how crazy I am.......geez! My boys finally saw through my ex’s bs, unfortunately, at their expense. One thing they credit me for is I never involved them with our problems or divorce. He, on the other hand, bashed me, lied & continues to do so to all. Since nobody cares enough to hear my side, I cut all ties with common so called friends. I don’t talk about him nor do I ask about him. I’m simply there for my boys and allow them to vent. They’re grown and have always been very close to me because of his explosive anger, control, & put down tactics. We endured his narcissistic abuse together.
I was also deeply in love with the fake persona he presented to all. His self righteous bs became very evident when he had his affair & continued lying & deceiving me about it & everything else. His own sons love him but have zero respect for him. He brought that on himself! I’m sure in his mind it’s my fault. I still haven’t shared everything with them. He killed my youngest sons military career & then college! Ugh! My boys are the only real thing to come out of our union. I’m glad to be completely free of him! I’m not bitter nor do I hate him. My boys get enough of that from his hatred of me.
I hope you continue healing & moving forward! Hugs, sugar!
My Heart Totally goes out to you💖 I truly understand. Your comments are my story as well.... You Are Walking In Favor because You survived the BEAST. he didn't and couldn't kill you because you are mentally strong. It may not feel like it, but your emotional & mental existence is proof. I'm A Survivor Also!
They want someone around because they like the feeling of attention being lavished on them, makes them feel good about themselves, meanwhile, they will not offer you one shred of respect.
Lauren Holly...I think he only wants me around for a ‘status symbol’...His first wife was a good looking woman, I’m not ugly and I think he tried to find me as soon as he was served divorce papers from his first wife...He was sure to make her out as the only one at fault...I’m 70 almost, and unable to leave him half of the house I paid for from an inheritance...The law is somewhat on his side on this issue...I need a good lawyer and a great judge to favour me and my welfare for a change..
I can’t believe how much I relate to these comments. Your video got me from sobbing in bed to feeling empowered. Thank you. I’m going to need it for this long journey...
He was the king of the silent treatment
Omg i got the silent treatment in my relationship and still i apologized for kicking him out because of the name calling and disrespect....smh
@@beautifulqueen3887 They are masters of flipping it around & turning the blame back onto you. So YOU are the one who ends up apologising. & you have no idea how they achieved this, because it’s all done with smoke & mirrors.
Big baby sulking
They are always discrediting you.
Always.
I believe the ending portion was the most illuminating. If someone makes you queasy when you're with them then there is a big issue. If you find yourself confused as to the status of the relationship, there is an issue. If a person says one thing and acts differently, it's an issue. When you put all these things together you will finally come to the understanding that this person is being false. Once you reach this point it become incumbent on the individual to begin clarifying the issues and getting resolution to the confusion. If you cannot do that then the only option is to remove yourself from the relationship. It will not be getting any better.
Andrew Boehmer thank you for this
Unfortunately, I've learned that we try to hard with this type of person. Always giving the benefit of the doubt. That is what really hurts is when we see how much time, energy and emotional effort we could have saved had to paid attention. Best wishes to you.
I completely agree, Andrew; I'm always afraid that I might be overly condemning because we all make mistakes and none of us is perfect - and I know that I often make mistakes as I'm certainly not perfect - so giving the benefit of the doubt is a good thing to do. Interestingly, it just occurred to me that people with toxic traits don't give us the benefit of the doubt though, and their 'punishments' are well over proportion to the perceived wrongdoing. Unfortunately, it's very hard to spot with these sneaky coverts as they hide it so well.
Yep.
this is really disappointing especially when you're back on the dating scene. learning to trust my intuition and uneasy feelings. So you should try to clarify the issues with the person, or just drop them like a bad habit?
I had to go no contact with a friend of over 30 years. It's been 1 year now and I still have PTSD. I don't like to gossip about her so I end up going over senarios over and over in my head.
S Cassi,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🥀,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
I'm the same. I don't know how to break it off because I'm terrrified of her and her reactions.
You ladies are breathing life into me right now. Thank you for this. There is no validation and it is hard, especially when it is your mother.
This video is my soon to be ex wife explained perfectly! Nobody knows her unless they've lived with her.
Exactly!
‘Toxic hope’ sums it up perfectly!! 👌🏻
Hope was also in Pandora's Box... it's the most insidious curse.
Hope was the last to fly out of Pandora's Box.
To that: "live in hope, die in despair"
I call it "buying time"
YES!!!
I was older than him but I love my birthdays. He completely sabotaged my birthday. He was looking at being evicted and needed money. He knew I was better financially and coerced me to 'lend' him money. Then ghosted me, but I know he will reach out in time. I read a comment that pointed out they are looking for moms and dads ...
But, awareness is powerful. The boundaries are set now. Thank you 💕
I accidentally upset him after his father died, But it was an honest unintentional thing.
He told me not to worry....”that I was going to pay when my father dies.”
He wasn’t wishing him harm or anything… But he was making sure I knew that he would remember.
They are so vendictive.
Even if you unintentionally upset them, they will make sure you pay.
These people are pure evil. Emotional violence is still violence. Unfortunately other people can’t see your psychological marks of abuse and so don’t believe it. It is a devastating isolating experience to be targeted by one of these people.
The term emotional violence isn't a good one, imho.
Emotional abuse is better. Violence directly implies physicality, & that is a very important distinction. (Definition: "behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something." - note "physical force" within this official/conventional/original/primary/commonplace definition.)
These days, people try to up the ante by applying the word violence to things like non-tangible actions, words, feelings, and even ideological or financial systems, etc.. It's getting very out of hand, because again, they are using a more abrasive word to imply how horrible it is, but the word communicates something that is literally impossible, that being a sort of physical assault. & some try to defend this by saying "it made me so upset I had a physical reaction, so yes, it was violence"... which is simply absurd, as by that logic, being broken up with could be considered an act of violence. Another example is when they call an ideology or system violent, when they mean that they either *promote* violence, *allow* violence, or *result in* violence - again, an important distinction, as anything abstract, no matter how evil we think it to be, cannot be violent in and of itself.
As someone who has been through both emotional/psychological abuse, as well as actual violence, I believe it's absolutely imperative that we keep our language clear & direct when it comes to such serious issues.
You don't need to call it violence for it to be considered serious, either. Personally, I would rather be slapped in the face than deal with passive aggression. I absolutely can't stand such behavior, and would take direct aggression to the point of actual violence over it any day - seriously. So yeah.
That being said, feel free to continue to use it that way if you'd like. You absolutely have every right to. Objectively, you're using it wrong, but there's a certain small but vocal group that is making such language changes more commonplace... so I can understand, colloquially, why people are using it like that. & even if there was no reasoning behind such usage, you can talk however you damn well please, as you have and absolutely deserve the freedom to do so! That being said, I stand resolute in my opinion, at this point. If language keeps being altered this way, imho it'll likely simply result in people making a new word to fill the gap that is created by turning the word "violence" into a direct synonym for "abuse". I can only imagine it would keep escalating, and new words would continue to fill the gaps, to higher and higher extremes. Such a thing would be pointless, and is already pointless at this stage. Abuse is a serious enough word, and violence already makes a clear distinction by definition. I say, let's use words as intended, to best communicate to one another. That's what I hope for, personally.
But that's just my opinion! Just one person. :P
Back to the original topic... these types are certainly difficult to deal with. I imagine it's difficult to even know how many exist. Scary to think about. Sad... tbh I hope both sides in such a relationship get the help they will certainly need.
@@jht3fougifh393 if my "brain " isn't a part of my physical , TANGIBLE BODY...then what the f is it! Emotional abuse Is BRAIN ABUSE ie Violence that can and has killed.
Language is a living evolutionary means of human communication..I say ITS ABOUT TIME THE LAW AND OUR LANGUAGE EVOLVES AND STOPS THE VIOLENCE OF SO CALLED "INTANGIBLE" EMOTIONAL ABUSE.
Physical vs emotional is more and more being finally understood to be two sides of the same coin.
It's worse when you were raised by one, they suck your childhood and punish you for behaving like a child, they are emotional succubi.
@@dietcris Sure they are, I think part of their control come from they purposely making us feel hopeless, specially when you are a kid.
Agreed.
They're grandiose too but not In front of witnesses. More in their own heads and since nobody treats them special they take it out on the people closest to them.
Great insight!
Well put!
Shannon, THANK YOU! You just described my mother, but I have to throw in a lot of Bi-Polarism! Yep. This explains why I moved so far away from her!
@@lindsayschilling8707 yeah my mother always used me and babied my brother's. When I stopped coming around out of self preservation, she had friends and family members call me and ask why I'm being so mean by avoiding her. She never put me down in front of my father, only when nobody was around. A true covert narcissist.
True, completely. The mask is OFF. Thanks, ladies, brilliant! Covert says "Sorry".
You two are saving lives. Thank you. I adore both of your channels. I just went no contact with my creepy covert narc adoptive mother & sister. I am 55. I escaped her at age 26 and unwittingly married a guy who has emotionally abused me for the past 25 yrs. I did my DNA 2 years ago and found 2 covert narc half sisters (one is a psychopath) and a covert narc cousin. They are EVERYWHERE. Thank you for doing the amazing work you do.
All spiritual vampires; do not invite one in.
Yep
That needs to be a reminder note to put on your bathroom mirror
This is spot on. There are some other signs that I noticed in my relationship with my ex (dated 2 years) 1-The relationship always felt surface level. No real depth or intimacy. 2- He would talk about people in GREAT detail. People you didnt even realize were in the room. And these details included attitude, conversing style, their demeanor, assumptions of their lifestyle...all within literally talking to them for 2 mins. 3-You feel like you need to entertain this person constantly otherwise they will lose interest at any moment 4-He would share secrets of other people and always full of stories....makes you think that you are connecting, but he wouldnt share stories about himself. 5-Masters at not answering questions directly. He would answer questions with a question. "Why would I do that?" -- makes you draw your own conclusion, and they get away with never really answering. 6-They reply back with your concerns as "in your mind this is happening" or "I know you're thinking this" -- making it seem like you are crazy. And then you have to defend yourself for their false accusation 7-They are NEVER dependable. Taking you to the doctor when you are sick is a chore. I remember apologizing constantly to my ex about taking me to the hospital because it was an inconvenience to him 8- They seem SOOOOO calculated in every response. 9- There would be zero compliments, and if he did compliment me...it was a bit insulting "of all the girls at work, I would only be with you" ---- the girls at work? what about the rest of the world haha! ANDDDD so many more things I can go on for days. BUT damn they are charming and it hooks you! They are seemingly innocent and you never know what side of them to believe. You fall in love with their innocence and thats why you stay in these relationships, but the calculated side makes you feel the worst you have ever felt about yourself.
Lost Child - very well explained! And your points- absolutely on spot, if I think about it now. But then I didn't know but it felt off and odd and weired and very confusing.
Points 1,3,7, and 9 are very accurate to how I feel. I have been in a relationship for three years now and I have literally just found out I am an Empath (which was such a refreshing thing to learn about myself. I have hated my sensitivity for so long and I just never understood why people didn’t put themselves in others shoes, bc I did with every Situation I was in with out even having to try, so learning I’m an empath has shown me that I have a gift & not something that’s wrong with me, anyways... ) and when I found that out all the info tells how empathic people attract narcissists. I thought that that wasn’t the case for me, but looking into what a narcissist actually is I’m heartbroken because that’s exactly the kind of person I’m with.. it’s heartbreaking and so confusing and so hard I honestly don’t know what to do.
Lost Child your comment is everything
lets connect and support one another.
SO well said!
The best part of this segment was when you said to trust your intuition. Knowing all the traits, do get thrown out the window when you're involved, even in the slightest way. Keep strong in your knowing.
Making comments like, “am I not allowed to?” When they are actually in a suspicious or out of character way. Make you feel bad for noticing or questioning
My whole body got the chills when you talked about the "sophisticated model."
I am the only child of a covert narcissist. I feel like my role switched at varying times between being both the scapegoat AND the golden child. I feel like this form of abuse is deeply damaging and isolating. I'm learning a lot from your videos and from the videos of a few others. It's extremely validating for me.
Marsha Brown I come from a similar experience, you’re not alone
Marsha Brown this is exactly my situation too and it has set me up for all relationships with c'narcs throughout my life. I have never had any major issues with the overt type as I have been able to more easily call them out
Same here. Mine has cost me everything sacred in my life. He's vile and evil and I spent the first half of my life letting him steam roll me. Now, I'm the evil person bc I want him away from me and my kids. Now I'm 'alienating' his grandchildren even though he's abused me to the point that I miscarried and developed autoimmune disorder that's also about killed me. I noticed the evil when I got sick and he only tried to exacerbate my illness and isolate my children from me. Everything the Dr said I shouldn't have going on was going on. Stress is THE #1 killer with my disease. He'd "pfft" and laugh at me when I'd try to relax, ignore me and tell me I was wrong when I'd speak (in my own house!), tell my kids I'm stupid, and pluck at me if I tried to nap. I literally thought I was dying and he tried to make it worse. That was when I realized what an awful person he was so I started paying attention. He's a deacon of a church and tells the whole congregations business while they think he's just so sweet. He even tells ppl he thinks the pastor is a pedophile (he's not that I can tell) and acts like he's their best friends to their faces. His wife goes thru hell living with him, but she enables him (she also developed autoimmune disorder, but I'm sure it's a coincidence *sarcasm*), so I figure she asks for it.
He even caused my kids to almost get took bc he was bullying somebody else who tried to get even with him. Never told me it came through him and let me believe it was my ex husband. He came between my kids and their dad, then pushed me out. This shit is never going to end. Told me when hubby left, "I'll help you with money. " I'd rather have prostituted to get by now that my eyes are open. If he has anything to do with it, he'll kill me before it's over. He loves destroying my relationship with EVERYONE, but my kids are where I draw the line. I'm getting too stressed again like before I got sick. I'm praying he finds other supply soon so I can get away from my family and heal. They've been abusing me and bullying me since I was a little kid. I've always had to live three steps forward and two back bc he sabotages everything in my life.
Please don't accept help from a narcissist! Do anything but that! It's a trap! I used to think my mother was full of shit when she'd tell me stories about them being married. I'm seeing now that my mother was telling the truth. Not speaking to her for 2 weeks then finding out it's bc mashed potatoes weren't the way he wanted. He'll talk to his wife like a dog if she stands before he's done eating. He'll stop eating. Used to act like my house was nasty bc we had a dog OUTSIDE bc he hated dogs. Then, out of nowhere had a dog and acts like he's always loved dogs his whole life. It's maddening. I could go in for years with examples. Sorry I hijacked you. Your comment hit so close to home. I pray you find a way out and get to have a life. I'm 34 and I might have had one whole year to find myself. That's just the weekend days when he doesn't come to my house bc "HE has things to do." Must be nice to get to have plans and do things when you want. I feel like I'll never know.
If he wasn't abusive and actually trying to foster good things in my kids, I wouldn't care if he came all day, every day. I didn't know what his true intentions were. Now I have to look back and question lots of things. All the seeds he planted in mine and my kids lives to keep us from having anyone or anything. Was it an honest mistake when he worked on my car and left a whole tires lug nuts off? Was my ex husband wrong to be so pissed that he stole all of our sons time (the answer to that is a definite no), was I really stupid and wrong all my life (also no)...they're so chaotic on purpose that you start to realize how much easier life would've been without them, yet they've deluded everyone into thinking they're martyrs for "all they've done for you." All mine has done is abused me and my two kids. His GC is my oldest son and he flat tells my other two he doesn't like them and that my oldest is the only good one. He's a frigging nut, I'm telling you.
Last thing, I promise. Speaking of bdays, on mine last year (six months after I lost my baby after his fit), he never acknowledged it, but asked me when my brother's was bc he said he was afraid he'd miss it. Wtf?! Sat at my house all day so my spouse couldn't do shit for me, but wouldn't even acknowledge me and only insulted me all day. There's gotta be a special place in hell.
chenoa wooton please get as far away from this abuse as you possibly can. You can stand on your own two feet and make a life for yourself and your family. Also...pray and get help ( informed and professional) with the healing process. I understand and relate to everything you've written. I'm praying we'll have complete healing. Love and hugs.
Marsha
I am the oldest of 3. The scapegoat and also the now (non existent) one. No contact for over 20 years. I don't miss the manipulation or abuse.
He’s never once told me that I’m a good mother. I’ve heard him say other women are.
He’s never acknowledge the fact that I worked my butt off to make it through college. But he’ll mention how smart other people’s girlfriends are.
I've realized that I've been living with a narc for the past year. I'm stuck here for financial reasons but I'm still doing no-contact. If he asks me a question, I'll answer it but then that's it for many hours & sometimes for many days. I've moved into the other bedroom, which thankfully has its own bath room but we still share a kitchen. It's so much more peaceful with no contact !
You out?
Yes, I was out shortly after my comment above. I now live alone and am loving every minute of it.
I'm not rich but I'm in my own house & have my own car. All of my neighbors love me and my little dog. I have a nice garden and finally I'm my own person and I'm at peace with the world.
They fool people so completely sometimes. When my covert narcissist father died, the neighbor who had been friends with him came to the house and just sobbed on my shoulder about what a loss, and what a good man...bla...bla...blaa. I felt so bad for this man. He had no idea who my father really was. I was relieved when he died.
I can understand the feeling of relief!
@Otie Jason lol troll
@Otie Jason who are you to judge for some people have not worked through their emotional trama 🙄
@Otie Jason feeling grandiose are you?
@@carmel-wayfinder5401 lol ...he is..
My ex reminded me of a calm pond or lake that looks placid and peaceful from a distance, yet if you get too close or disturb it suddenly it will erupt and tear you apart.
Where have you been all my life? At the age of 42 I just realized I was not alone. I thought maybe it's just me and nobody would ever understand what I've been going through. I'm still trying to survive without feeling so guilty. Your youtube is now my sanctuary. THANK YOU 🙏
I feel the same
The fact I’m still in love with him but inside he always made me feel I was not enough !
You would look better if your hair was thicker !
You put weight on !
Why do you overthink so much !
You know that dress you wore last time we went out !!
Well I did not like the colour of your tights !!!
The list goes on !!
But the effect this man has made on me I feel he has killed me inside !