What I love about this show is that when Nora gave her monologue, my wife turned to me and said, "So that's what happened" and I looked at her like she had two heads. It was so clear to me she was lying, and it was equally clear to her that Nora was telling the truth. That's good storytelling and absolutely amazing thematics.
I’m with you.. she said she never lies in the beginning of this episode and then she has a whole fake identity.. which I think proves your point.. but it’s about Kevin’s faith in Nora she needs him to believe she went even if he thinks/knows she really didn’t
I love that, in having this interpretation of Nora's experience (which I share, Nora giving her beads to the scapegoat seals the deal) we are also at risk of not learning Nora's lesson.
It's funny I feel the exact opposite. Her explanation is actually rooted in science and makes more sense than 99% of the theories proposed for the departure. She contacted a scientist... Not a preacher or a man of God or a snake oil salesman... But a scientist. And any string theorist would tell you then the concept of there being multiple dimensions is plausible. Again I'm not going to pretend to understand the signs of it but it's not beyond the realm of physics. Most of the other explanations for the departure that were proposed were something like biblical damnation or the end times.... I find it so strange that people assume she's lying... Her story is one of the least unusual things in the entire show. It's far more believable than what we saw with our own eyes of what happened to Kevin.
@@xxAKSHUNxxwhy would he doubt her? Look what he went through, and he literally went through completely undescribable unbelievable things that defy the laws of physics.... Her explanation actually doesn't defy the laws of physics, but involves leaning into physics and finding a physicist who had some method to get into the other dimension. I don't claim to understand the science behind it but it's not outside the realm of string theory and the laws of physics that there could be some kind of multiverse or multiple dimensions that we do not see. In this show it was pretty typical for the audience to accept unbelievable things about biblical damnation or the end times or dreaming or dying and coming back to life... I find it strange that the idea that a physicist could have found some kind of wormhole device to be the one that people refuse to believe. And certainly strange that they would think Kevin would be incapable of believing it.
@@michaelcorcoran8768 Well...but did she contact the actual scientist? Did the scientist have a method to get to the other dimension? We don't actually know. We haven't actually seen what happened. We only have Nora's words to go by. You can have faith in her or be a cynic and assume she is lying, which would also be very fitting with her character. And Nora doesn't really care if you believe her or not. At the end, the only thing that matters to her is that Kevin believes her. A beautiful finale which is not obvious and very open to interpretation.
So here's a fun fact, this episode was the first I've seen of the show. I was flipping channels one day and came across HBO as Nora was driving her bicycle in the night, and suddenly she falls over and I'm hooked. So I watch the rest of the episode, it ends and I don't think much more of it at the time. Skip like a year or two forwards and one of my favorite youtubers, Johnny from newLEGACYinc is talking about watching Leftovers and recommends checking it out, so I do so, and low and behold I realize it's the same show I've seen a third of the finale of. And I absolutely loved the journey I went on watching the show from the start. The show, to me, has always been about people's ways of understanding the unexplainable things, and about belief, more in the truth way than the faith way (though obviously religion plays a big part too). The understanding motif comes around near the end of the first two seasons, Patti wanting Kevin to understand, Evie telling Erika she understands, but the finale of the third season and the whole show is solely focused on belief, choosing what to believe in, or even trying to choose a new truth like Kevin tried to.
I absolutely loved this finale!! I was bawling the whole time. I have learned by reading the comments on other people's reactions that I am in the very small minority of people that believe Nora was telling the truth. So glad you watched this show.
Interesting...it never occurred to me that Nora would lie about what happened to her, even though she's lied plenty on the show. It just seems like that would be a weird, and unnecessary, choice for the writers to make. Plus, a long journey like that would explain Nora's current circumstances better to me than if she hadn't gone.
Macabre storytelling has an amazing analysis on the series and one about Nora's story. Highly recommend it. I'm sad we have reached the end but so happy to see more people discovering this incredible show
I'm still convinced that Nora lied in the end, and Kevin knows that she's lying. It's the story of closure that she needs and he is choosing to just be with her. I think, honestly, that's the more powerful take and much more in line with the characters than an offscreen dimension hop.
Perhaps it's not that she was lying, but that she was being metaphorical. Maybe she was trying to say that it was pointless for her to go through the machine in the first place, because after everything that happened, after all that time had passed, her family would have moved on, and she'd be alone again on the other side anyway. And after that, she feared that the same thing happened between her and Kevin. But in the end, Kevin hadn't moved on. Whether Nora went through the machine to find her family or not, Kevin absolutely went through his own metaphorical machine to find Nora.
Really great reaction! Even though this show had me weepy several times during its run, by the very end of the last episode - I was broken and crying. Apart from the story, the performances, the sadness, and the stillness of those last shots, it was that precious ambiguity that gripped me. What is more honest and heart wrenching than the one thing that is always at the centre of life...ambiguity. This show will always be a personal favourite. Thank you for reacting to it.
Thank you for the journey! I really enjoyed it. 👍 Good you mentioned Occam's razor. Use it one more time: if the easiest answer to the confusion about Kevin was that he has lied, what would be the easiest answer to the confusion that goes with Nora's story? 😉
The Leftovers is basically, a magnified version of the actual normal life, it's just that a lot of people depart at the same time, and then people start asking questions. It's amazing because it is rooted in truth.
Think back to the older episodes, like when Gladys was stoned to death or when Kevin's daughter got locked in that refrigerator......lol who would've ever guessed that the show would end where and how it did? Such a great journey this show takes you on.
Glad you enjoyed this show so much Neil. Your analysis and deep thinking (which features in all your vids!) really worked with this show. As you've mentioned it leaves you with questions and thoughts which you will carry for a long time! Not one for reacting I imagine but check out Six Feet Under if you haven't seen. And if you ever fancy Twin Peaks I'll be there!! :)
One of the best! Similar themes/questions to Leftovers, both changed way I see the world significantly. 1st watched when I was 17 and related to Clarie so so much. Recently watching it at 26 and suddenly I feel Nate completely. Every character is just so real! Maybe Neil should react to it ahahaha!
I think Six Feet Under could work better as a full season (or multiple episodes, at least) per video reaction series, honestly. I don't know how much more work that is for the creators, but I think it's an interesting route to take with shows that don't necessarily lend themselves to episode by episode reactions.
I've enjoyed your analysis of every episode of this show. Although in this case, I definitely believe Nora is lying. Cause if she's not, she's so wrong not talking to her kids, not letting them know that she's alive, that she's there. And also, if she wanted to disappear and never see anyone again, staying on the other side would have made more sense. Either way, it's a beautiful ending =)
The whole vibe of wedding reception was so great. But Lhm, the music!!! First, Bach's PACHELBEL'S CANON, then Otis Redding doing I'VE GOT DREAMS TO REMEMBER. Oh my heart!
Peoples reaction to Noras story is so interesting: people instantly believe it or see it as a lie instantly! Reddit/RUclips can explain better why it is very unlikely it is true. For me the scene with the nun, the bathroom scene, Nora accepting she is a sinner (and placing the beads on the symbol of her kids) are massive pointers. Her arc doesn't work (for me) if it happened either. No matter what you believe: what a finale. Cried again watching it again here. Masterpiece!
I believed her initially too, Neil. Then I really thought about the logistics and the implications. While her story is an elegant solution, it's not what happened to her. Why was there no news about a naked woman showing up somewhere in this world, no ID or money? No one else ever came back through, after the inventor supposedly went through tremendous difficulty to recreate the machine. Nora never went to the two scientists and confirmed that the machine worked, something that could have reunited so many people. The "bravest girl on Earth" changed her mind, and lied about it, as she has always lied. You thought Laurie died, too. But we didn't actually see it happen. Think of that bathroom scene. Submerged in liquid, then desperate to get out. The nun lying about a guy going down a LADR. These are all clues. Nora loves to call other people out for lying, but she herself has always lied. But Kevin doesn't care anymore. He just wants to be with her, regardless. He's been on an odyssey, and was finally reunited with his love. (Note that Jill's daughter is named Penelope.)
I think Nora is telling the truth here. If you think about it her explanation for the departure is the most plausible one anyone had made in the entire show. It involved contacting a physicist and finding a physical explanation for the departure. No dreams, no dyying and coming back to life, no end times or biblical damnation. A physical explanation for the departure that is almost boring. On another show under different circumstances I could see this story being hard to believe. On this show, it's easier to believe Nora's story than things we saw with their own eyes that Kevin went through.
Nora was lying. She backed off in the last moment and ran away because she couldn't face Kevin after not having the courage to face death to meet her children. But Kevin doesn't care whether she's lying or not. He would happily accept it if it allows Nora to move on and actually be happy, with him. The series ends on a fictional story told by a character who's asking you to believe in it despite it being a lie. The perfect ending imaginable to a series that talks about a loss that nobody can define. This show is a masterpiece.
There are two big questions that fans of this show often consider (and often change their mind on): Were Kevin's experiences (seeing Patty, the hotel) real? And, Was Nora telling the truth about the 2% world?
Really enjoyed your reactions to this wonderful show. You felt it all. It stupifies me when anyone can witness one of these convos, like Nora and Matt's beachside at her leaving, and not be moved by it. Or at Kevin Jr and Sr with the bathtub scene... I could go on. Between the writing and the absolutely fine acting; very little compares to this quality.
"What on Earth is going on?!" I thought, watching this, that it was the afterlife, a kind of (spoilers ) à la LOST-season 6 episode. A weird Flash-Sideways. I fit the fact that old Kevin seemed to not remember.
Why would Nora be the one to convince the ladder builder to build another one? You’d think he would build one on his own accord to start getting the 2% back. Also seems implausible he would just say “ok no problem I’ll build it for you”. Also seems unlikely he’d be able to actually obtain the materials and make it again. That’s why I think she was lying.
I mean why wouldn't he, they live in a post scarcity society where only 2% of the population is on a planet the size of Earth. They would not want for resources at all... But they would lack for purpose and this would give it to him. If you were a physicist who had figured out how to cross wormholes into a dimension, and someone came to you and asked for help would you offer it? Especially if you lived in a near empty world where 98% of everyone was gone. Again compared to the other stuff this show asks the audience to believe... Like everything that happened to Kevin basically dying and coming back to life... International assassins, end times in dreams... Ghost shooting dogs... And all the theories about the departure were rooted in non-physical explanations like biblical damnation or the end times. Nora is offering a scenario where it was a physicist or an a scientist who discovered what happened. And that it didn't have any deep meaning but it was more like a cosmic accident. To me it's one of the more believable things that happened on the entire show. I know I'm in the minority, everyone seems to think she's lying. I find it fascinating though that of all the things they show asks people to believe or ponder, the explanation that had the most science in the least hyperbole is the one people refuse to believe
It would depend on what materials they needed but if they were able to accumulate these materials in the exact same location in the dimension with 98% of the people.... Well in a situation like that those materials and the logistics of getting them would be expensive. You're living in a scarcity society with 98% of the population competing for resources. And the other dimension, the planet is almost empty and it's a post scarcity society. It's like Star Trek in that sense. .. they really wouldn't want for material needs because 2% of the planet would be sharing the planets collective resources. No of course the difference is they would lack the industrialization... They would lack the ability to produce things in scale. But this isn't something they're trying to produce at scale, this is something they're just making one of. More than that if you are in a dimension with only 2% of humanity, someone asking you for help would give you purpose. And if you're a physicist to figure out the biggest mystery in the world, I imagine you would be eager to help them and while you're at it continue to research the phenomena itself. If this were any other show I can understand being skeptical of Nora's claims. But on this show, people believe things that are literally physically impossible and beyond the bounds of the laws of physics. Nora's explanation is not. People want an explanation that is deep with meaning... It was God, it was biblical damnation, it was heaven or hell... But what if it was just sort of sort of cosmic rip... An accident. And what if the explanation is lacking any meaning, and is rooted in physical properties? People willing to seriously entertain almost every crazy theory about the departure. But for some reason, the only theory that was actually rooted in science, is the one everyone rejected.
I love the ending...they left it all up to the imagination. I believe either... A) Nora lied, never went through, and just stayed in hiding out of shame. B) I would like to believe Nora died in the ladder, and like, lost, they have met again in a type of Purgatory. And neither of them know yet...
It sounds morbid but I thought Lory not dying was one of the few missteps of this series. It was a beautiful episode. I heard an interview with Lindelof and he said they were really conflicted about it and changed it later.
I believe Nora was telling the truth. In fact I find it kind of wild how many people don't believe her when her explanation is actually rooted in science. Of all the wild spiritual or metaphysical explanations for the universe in this show... Or for the departure anyway, hers is fairly simple. The physicist figured out a way to transform into the other dimension or whatever .... If you think about it that's more plausible than most of the explanations about biblical damnation or the end times....
When I first watched the episode, I really thought Nora was telling the truth. But then, a friend told me was that the truth? And I was like... I never doubted it ahaha. In the end Nora and Kevin ended up together.
Yeah I think she was telling the truth. I find it bizarre people are so skeptical. In a vacuum her story is crazy. But in the world of the departure it's actually one of the most scientifically plausible explanations there is. Everybody wanted some kind of religious or metaphysical explanation that was deep with meaning. People were seriously willing to entertain biblical damnation or the end times or some kind of magic. Even the audience was willing to entertain these explanations that were beyond the laws of physics. And yet when we get an explanation that is technically rooted in physics and science, The audience can't accept it. It's a fascinating phenomena. To me people don't want to believe Nora's explanation because it's the one with the least meaning. In her explanation it was just sort of a cosmic accident that caused this. Some kind of cosmological or universal rip in the cosmic structure that led to another dimension, which is technically possible in the laws of physics according to most string theorists. If she had said God came down from heaven and told her that the 2% were needed for some special mission I feel like the audience would have believed her more.... It's because her explanation provides no deep meaning that the audience is reluctant to tolerate it. In the end, the departure had no meaning. There was no spiritual explanation. It was just a physical explanation that we don't quite understand (well any lay person doesn't understand but clearly at least one physicist / understood it to some degree). This explanation is the only one that was rooted in literal scientific method.
I agree, wish more people watched it. It's a great show. He has said he's watched Dark, and he seemed to enjoy the time travel part of Lost so I think he'd enjoy it.
The visual storytelling lends to the idea that she was lying. I’ve already seen the series 3 times but on this rewatch with you it just seems obvious to me they want you to infer she war lying.
Of course Nora talks bullshit and totally lies, that's a given. The episode even starts with her trying to conceive us that she doesn't lie, with no effect
A lot of people feel like Nora wants to go back and yells stop while she’s in the pod. I’ve never felt that. I’ve slowed it down and listened dozens of times and I hear her yell “yes.” I also feel like the Nora that I watched for 3 seasons is 100% going through the process in order to see her kids no matter what.
One of my only criticisms of this show is Laurie appearing in the finale. Think it devalues 'Certified'. The ending was ambiguous but thought the episode leaned heavily towards Laurie ending her life (and her being ok with that). The finale use it here just to put doubt on if what we are seeing is real. Its playing on a flashsideways/afterlife idea (Kevin mentions a hotel, says the word LOST with emphasis). Like I don't mind this doubt but shame to use/change such a heavy thing just for plot reasons. Not a deal breaker for me, happy she was alive but effects the re watch for me.
Interesting. I thought the ending of Certified was pretty unambiguous and leaned towards her not killing herself. For me, it was mainly cause it was supposed to look like an accident and she didn't mention to Jill when she called that she was about to go scuba diving, and I think she even failed to mention she was in Australia. I never thought she killed herself for a second so I didn't mind the confirmation in the end.
Actually they didn't do it for plot reasons, even tho the end of certified was ambiguous they wanted her to be dead initially but once it happened they changed their mind because they were very unsatisfied by the idea.
@@Eowyn187 From comments seems more interpretive than I thought! Few guys I know saw it same as me 🤷♂ I find Certified a really hard episode to talk about but on this, the final call to me was confirmation of the talk she had with Kevin- the best thing they did was raise the kids. The call confirms to Laurie that they are ok, they have each other- so it is ok for her to go. As I said up to interpretation, just found her inclusion here clunky (even if confirming change of mind.
@@M4ke4l I have seen this before and fair enough- but it suggests that Certified was written to suggest Laurie did go through with it. They changed their minds after watching- don't want to be mean to them but does that mean they failed with their writing aim?! Its more interpretive than I thought but I just think little in the episode before the call suggests she will change her mind. Out of interest what did you think at the end of certified? Interested
What I love about this show is that when Nora gave her monologue, my wife turned to me and said, "So that's what happened" and I looked at her like she had two heads. It was so clear to me she was lying, and it was equally clear to her that Nora was telling the truth. That's good storytelling and absolutely amazing thematics.
I’m with you.. she said she never lies in the beginning of this episode and then she has a whole fake identity.. which I think proves your point.. but it’s about Kevin’s faith in Nora she needs him to believe she went even if he thinks/knows she really didn’t
I love that, in having this interpretation of Nora's experience (which I share, Nora giving her beads to the scapegoat seals the deal) we are also at risk of not learning Nora's lesson.
It's funny I feel the exact opposite. Her explanation is actually rooted in science and makes more sense than 99% of the theories proposed for the departure. She contacted a scientist... Not a preacher or a man of God or a snake oil salesman... But a scientist. And any string theorist would tell you then the concept of there being multiple dimensions is plausible.
Again I'm not going to pretend to understand the signs of it but it's not beyond the realm of physics. Most of the other explanations for the departure that were proposed were something like biblical damnation or the end times....
I find it so strange that people assume she's lying... Her story is one of the least unusual things in the entire show. It's far more believable than what we saw with our own eyes of what happened to Kevin.
@@xxAKSHUNxxwhy would he doubt her? Look what he went through, and he literally went through completely undescribable unbelievable things that defy the laws of physics.... Her explanation actually doesn't defy the laws of physics, but involves leaning into physics and finding a physicist who had some method to get into the other dimension. I don't claim to understand the science behind it but it's not outside the realm of string theory and the laws of physics that there could be some kind of multiverse or multiple dimensions that we do not see.
In this show it was pretty typical for the audience to accept unbelievable things about biblical damnation or the end times or dreaming or dying and coming back to life...
I find it strange that the idea that a physicist could have found some kind of wormhole device to be the one that people refuse to believe.
And certainly strange that they would think Kevin would be incapable of believing it.
@@michaelcorcoran8768 Well...but did she contact the actual scientist? Did the scientist have a method to get to the other dimension? We don't actually know. We haven't actually seen what happened. We only have Nora's words to go by. You can have faith in her or be a cynic and assume she is lying, which would also be very fitting with her character. And Nora doesn't really care if you believe her or not. At the end, the only thing that matters to her is that Kevin believes her. A beautiful finale which is not obvious and very open to interpretation.
I like how the first episode opened with the 911 calls, people saying “they’re gone,” “she’s gone” and the series ends with “I’m here.”
Also every seasons ends with a line from Nora.
So here's a fun fact, this episode was the first I've seen of the show. I was flipping channels one day and came across HBO as Nora was driving her bicycle in the night, and suddenly she falls over and I'm hooked. So I watch the rest of the episode, it ends and I don't think much more of it at the time. Skip like a year or two forwards and one of my favorite youtubers, Johnny from newLEGACYinc is talking about watching Leftovers and recommends checking it out, so I do so, and low and behold I realize it's the same show I've seen a third of the finale of. And I absolutely loved the journey I went on watching the show from the start.
The show, to me, has always been about people's ways of understanding the unexplainable things, and about belief, more in the truth way than the faith way (though obviously religion plays a big part too). The understanding motif comes around near the end of the first two seasons, Patti wanting Kevin to understand, Evie telling Erika she understands, but the finale of the third season and the whole show is solely focused on belief, choosing what to believe in, or even trying to choose a new truth like Kevin tried to.
So sad we’ve reached the end of this amazing series. You’ve been a great gecko Neil. Thank you.
I absolutely loved this finale!! I was bawling the whole time. I have learned by reading the comments on other people's reactions that I am in the very small minority of people that believe Nora was telling the truth. So glad you watched this show.
Interesting...it never occurred to me that Nora would lie about what happened to her, even though she's lied plenty on the show.
It just seems like that would be a weird, and unnecessary, choice for the writers to make.
Plus, a long journey like that would explain Nora's current circumstances better to me than if she hadn't gone.
I am on the fence as to whether she is lying. I lean towards it not happening but I can’t close the door on it having happened.
she told the truth, it an alternative realm
The Leftovers and Legion are probably the two shows I've gone back to afterwards because they stayed with me and really expanded how I see the world.
Macabre storytelling has an amazing analysis on the series and one about Nora's story. Highly recommend it. I'm sad we have reached the end but so happy to see more people discovering this incredible show
I'm still convinced that Nora lied in the end, and Kevin knows that she's lying. It's the story of closure that she needs and he is choosing to just be with her. I think, honestly, that's the more powerful take and much more in line with the characters than an offscreen dimension hop.
Also, them showing us that Lori changed her mind in the same episode is a little wink to us that Nora changed her mind in the tank.
Perhaps it's not that she was lying, but that she was being metaphorical. Maybe she was trying to say that it was pointless for her to go through the machine in the first place, because after everything that happened, after all that time had passed, her family would have moved on, and she'd be alone again on the other side anyway. And after that, she feared that the same thing happened between her and Kevin. But in the end, Kevin hadn't moved on. Whether Nora went through the machine to find her family or not, Kevin absolutely went through his own metaphorical machine to find Nora.
This has been great. Thank you for taking this ride!
Really appreciate being able to be with you on this journey, thank you!
My pleasure!
Really great reaction!
Even though this show had me weepy several times during its run, by the very end of the last episode - I was broken and crying.
Apart from the story, the performances, the sadness, and the stillness of those last shots, it was that precious ambiguity that gripped me. What is more honest and heart wrenching than the one thing that is always at the centre of life...ambiguity.
This show will always be a personal favourite. Thank you for reacting to it.
Thank you for the journey! I really enjoyed it. 👍
Good you mentioned Occam's razor. Use it one more time: if the easiest answer to the confusion about Kevin was that he has lied, what would be the easiest answer to the confusion that goes with Nora's story? 😉
In my opinion, this is one of the best crafted series ever made. It's unusual to have such a satisfying ending. But this worked brilliantly.
Great job Neil!! I binged your reaction to this show in 3 days.
Hope you enjoyed it!
Same!
You’re the best reactor on RUclips, truly enjoyed watching you during Lost and The Leftovers. Thank you Neil.
Absolutely my pleasure, David. Many thanks!
The Leftovers is basically, a magnified version of the actual normal life, it's just that a lot of people depart at the same time, and then people start asking questions. It's amazing because it is rooted in truth.
It's been a delight watching your reactions. Thank you!
Thank you too!
Think back to the older episodes, like when Gladys was stoned to death or when Kevin's daughter got locked in that refrigerator......lol who would've ever guessed that the show would end where and how it did?
Such a great journey this show takes you on.
Glad you enjoyed this show so much Neil. Your analysis and deep thinking (which features in all your vids!) really worked with this show. As you've mentioned it leaves you with questions and thoughts which you will carry for a long time!
Not one for reacting I imagine but check out Six Feet Under if you haven't seen. And if you ever fancy Twin Peaks I'll be there!! :)
Absolutely LOVED "Six Feet Under"! Such fantastic characters!
One of the best! Similar themes/questions to Leftovers, both changed way I see the world significantly.
1st watched when I was 17 and related to Clarie so so much. Recently watching it at 26 and suddenly I feel Nate completely. Every character is just so real!
Maybe Neil should react to it ahahaha!
I think Six Feet Under could work better as a full season (or multiple episodes, at least) per video reaction series, honestly. I don't know how much more work that is for the creators, but I think it's an interesting route to take with shows that don't necessarily lend themselves to episode by episode reactions.
I've enjoyed your analysis of every episode of this show. Although in this case, I definitely believe Nora is lying. Cause if she's not, she's so wrong not talking to her kids, not letting them know that she's alive, that she's there. And also, if she wanted to disappear and never see anyone again, staying on the other side would have made more sense. Either way, it's a beautiful ending =)
The whole vibe of wedding reception was so great. But Lhm, the music!!! First, Bach's PACHELBEL'S CANON, then Otis Redding doing I'VE GOT DREAMS TO REMEMBER. Oh my heart!
Peoples reaction to Noras story is so interesting: people instantly believe it or see it as a lie instantly!
Reddit/RUclips can explain better why it is very unlikely it is true. For me the scene with the nun, the bathroom scene, Nora accepting she is a sinner (and placing the beads on the symbol of her kids) are massive pointers. Her arc doesn't work (for me) if it happened either.
No matter what you believe: what a finale. Cried again watching it again here. Masterpiece!
I believed her initially too, Neil. Then I really thought about the logistics and the implications. While her story is an elegant solution, it's not what happened to her. Why was there no news about a naked woman showing up somewhere in this world, no ID or money? No one else ever came back through, after the inventor supposedly went through tremendous difficulty to recreate the machine. Nora never went to the two scientists and confirmed that the machine worked, something that could have reunited so many people.
The "bravest girl on Earth" changed her mind, and lied about it, as she has always lied. You thought Laurie died, too. But we didn't actually see it happen. Think of that bathroom scene. Submerged in liquid, then desperate to get out. The nun lying about a guy going down a LADR. These are all clues. Nora loves to call other people out for lying, but she herself has always lied.
But Kevin doesn't care anymore. He just wants to be with her, regardless. He's been on an odyssey, and was finally reunited with his love. (Note that Jill's daughter is named Penelope.)
Nora: "I don't lie"
Niel: Everybody lies
And yeah, everybody in this episode lied, the nun, the bride, kevin, and nora
I think Nora is telling the truth here. If you think about it her explanation for the departure is the most plausible one anyone had made in the entire show. It involved contacting a physicist and finding a physical explanation for the departure. No dreams, no dyying and coming back to life, no end times or biblical damnation. A physical explanation for the departure that is almost boring.
On another show under different circumstances I could see this story being hard to believe. On this show, it's easier to believe Nora's story than things we saw with their own eyes that Kevin went through.
Nora was lying. She backed off in the last moment and ran away because she couldn't face Kevin after not having the courage to face death to meet her children. But Kevin doesn't care whether she's lying or not. He would happily accept it if it allows Nora to move on and actually be happy, with him. The series ends on a fictional story told by a character who's asking you to believe in it despite it being a lie. The perfect ending imaginable to a series that talks about a loss that nobody can define. This show is a masterpiece.
There are two big questions that fans of this show often consider (and often change their mind on):
Were Kevin's experiences (seeing Patty, the hotel) real? And, Was Nora telling the truth about the 2% world?
Following your journey has been a fun experience ✨
Really enjoyed your reactions to this wonderful show. You felt it all.
It stupifies me when anyone can witness one of these convos, like Nora and Matt's beachside at her leaving, and not be moved by it. Or at Kevin Jr and Sr with the bathtub scene... I could go on.
Between the writing and the absolutely fine acting; very little compares to this quality.
"What on Earth is going on?!" I thought, watching this, that it was the afterlife, a kind of (spoilers ) à la LOST-season 6 episode. A weird Flash-Sideways. I fit the fact that old Kevin seemed to not remember.
Neil what would ya rate The Leftovers out of 10?
Why would Nora be the one to convince the ladder builder to build another one? You’d think he would build one on his own accord to start getting the 2% back. Also seems implausible he would just say “ok no problem I’ll build it for you”. Also seems unlikely he’d be able to actually obtain the materials and make it again. That’s why I think she was lying.
I mean why wouldn't he, they live in a post scarcity society where only 2% of the population is on a planet the size of Earth. They would not want for resources at all... But they would lack for purpose and this would give it to him.
If you were a physicist who had figured out how to cross wormholes into a dimension, and someone came to you and asked for help would you offer it?
Especially if you lived in a near empty world where 98% of everyone was gone.
Again compared to the other stuff this show asks the audience to believe... Like everything that happened to Kevin basically dying and coming back to life... International assassins, end times in dreams... Ghost shooting dogs...
And all the theories about the departure were rooted in non-physical explanations like biblical damnation or the end times. Nora is offering a scenario where it was a physicist or an a scientist who discovered what happened. And that it didn't have any deep meaning but it was more like a cosmic accident.
To me it's one of the more believable things that happened on the entire show. I know I'm in the minority, everyone seems to think she's lying.
I find it fascinating though that of all the things they show asks people to believe or ponder, the explanation that had the most science in the least hyperbole is the one people refuse to believe
It would depend on what materials they needed but if they were able to accumulate these materials in the exact same location in the dimension with 98% of the people.... Well in a situation like that those materials and the logistics of getting them would be expensive. You're living in a scarcity society with 98% of the population competing for resources.
And the other dimension, the planet is almost empty and it's a post scarcity society. It's like Star Trek in that sense. .. they really wouldn't want for material needs because 2% of the planet would be sharing the planets collective resources.
No of course the difference is they would lack the industrialization... They would lack the ability to produce things in scale. But this isn't something they're trying to produce at scale, this is something they're just making one of.
More than that if you are in a dimension with only 2% of humanity, someone asking you for help would give you purpose. And if you're a physicist to figure out the biggest mystery in the world, I imagine you would be eager to help them and while you're at it continue to research the phenomena itself.
If this were any other show I can understand being skeptical of Nora's claims. But on this show, people believe things that are literally physically impossible and beyond the bounds of the laws of physics.
Nora's explanation is not. People want an explanation that is deep with meaning... It was God, it was biblical damnation, it was heaven or hell... But what if it was just sort of sort of cosmic rip... An accident.
And what if the explanation is lacking any meaning, and is rooted in physical properties?
People willing to seriously entertain almost every crazy theory about the departure. But for some reason, the only theory that was actually rooted in science, is the one everyone rejected.
I love the ending...they left it all up to the imagination.
I believe either...
A) Nora lied, never went through, and just stayed in hiding out of shame.
B) I would like to believe Nora died in the ladder, and like, lost, they have met again in a type of Purgatory. And neither of them know yet...
9:07 Unrelated to the Leftovers but Neil, you got the best laugh lol
It sounds morbid but I thought Lory not dying was one of the few missteps of this series. It was a beautiful episode. I heard an interview with Lindelof and he said they were really conflicted about it and changed it later.
I believe Nora was telling the truth. In fact I find it kind of wild how many people don't believe her when her explanation is actually rooted in science. Of all the wild spiritual or metaphysical explanations for the universe in this show... Or for the departure anyway, hers is fairly simple. The physicist figured out a way to transform into the other dimension or whatever ....
If you think about it that's more plausible than most of the explanations about biblical damnation or the end times....
When I first watched the episode, I really thought Nora was telling the truth. But then, a friend told me was that the truth? And I was like... I never doubted it ahaha. In the end Nora and Kevin ended up together.
Yeah I think she was telling the truth. I find it bizarre people are so skeptical. In a vacuum her story is crazy. But in the world of the departure it's actually one of the most scientifically plausible explanations there is.
Everybody wanted some kind of religious or metaphysical explanation that was deep with meaning. People were seriously willing to entertain biblical damnation or the end times or some kind of magic. Even the audience was willing to entertain these explanations that were beyond the laws of physics.
And yet when we get an explanation that is technically rooted in physics and science, The audience can't accept it.
It's a fascinating phenomena. To me people don't want to believe Nora's explanation because it's the one with the least meaning. In her explanation it was just sort of a cosmic accident that caused this. Some kind of cosmological or universal rip in the cosmic structure that led to another dimension, which is technically possible in the laws of physics according to most string theorists.
If she had said God came down from heaven and told her that the 2% were needed for some special mission I feel like the audience would have believed her more.... It's because her explanation provides no deep meaning that the audience is reluctant to tolerate it.
In the end, the departure had no meaning. There was no spiritual explanation. It was just a physical explanation that we don't quite understand (well any lay person doesn't understand but clearly at least one physicist / understood it to some degree).
This explanation is the only one that was rooted in literal scientific method.
What a jorney
well, we've reached the end, here comes grief.
dont worry, you'll be okay. ♥
Huh huh you got so nervous when they brought out the goat 😂🤣
So, you believe Nora?... Okham's Razor she didn't and lied...or you can believe that she did... either way brilliant ending to a fantastic show...
I would LOVE to see your reaction to SyFy's "12 Monkeys". One of the best and most underrated time travel show out there.
I agree, wish more people watched it. It's a great show. He has said he's watched Dark, and he seemed to enjoy the time travel part of Lost so I think he'd enjoy it.
The visual storytelling lends to the idea that she was lying. I’ve already seen the series 3 times but on this rewatch with you it just seems obvious to me they want you to infer she war lying.
Of course Nora talks bullshit and totally lies, that's a given. The episode even starts with her trying to conceive us that she doesn't lie, with no effect
If the machines inventor could build another machine wouldn't he build one and use it to get back to his loved ones
Nora lied.
A lot of people feel like Nora wants to go back and yells stop while she’s in the pod. I’ve never felt that. I’ve slowed it down and listened dozens of times and I hear her yell “yes.” I also feel like the Nora that I watched for 3 seasons is 100% going through the process in order to see her kids no matter what.
She clearly starts saying something with S. Why would she yell "yes"?
I wonder if everyone we saw in the this episode was actually dead.
One of my only criticisms of this show is Laurie appearing in the finale. Think it devalues 'Certified'. The ending was ambiguous but thought the episode leaned heavily towards Laurie ending her life (and her being ok with that).
The finale use it here just to put doubt on if what we are seeing is real. Its playing on a flashsideways/afterlife idea (Kevin mentions a hotel, says the word LOST with emphasis). Like I don't mind this doubt but shame to use/change such a heavy thing just for plot reasons. Not a deal breaker for me, happy she was alive but effects the re watch for me.
I feel like they showed her so we'd know she didn't do another foolish thing, and hurt her children again. 🤷♀️
Interesting. I thought the ending of Certified was pretty unambiguous and leaned towards her not killing herself. For me, it was mainly cause it was supposed to look like an accident and she didn't mention to Jill when she called that she was about to go scuba diving, and I think she even failed to mention she was in Australia. I never thought she killed herself for a second so I didn't mind the confirmation in the end.
Actually they didn't do it for plot reasons, even tho the end of certified was ambiguous they wanted her to be dead initially but once it happened they changed their mind because they were very unsatisfied by the idea.
@@Eowyn187 From comments seems more interpretive than I thought! Few guys I know saw it same as me 🤷♂ I find Certified a really hard episode to talk about but on this, the final call to me was confirmation of the talk she had with Kevin- the best thing they did was raise the kids. The call confirms to Laurie that they are ok, they have each other- so it is ok for her to go. As I said up to interpretation, just found her inclusion here clunky (even if confirming change of mind.
@@M4ke4l I have seen this before and fair enough- but it suggests that Certified was written to suggest Laurie did go through with it. They changed their minds after watching- don't want to be mean to them but does that mean they failed with their writing aim?! Its more interpretive than I thought but I just think little in the episode before the call suggests she will change her mind. Out of interest what did you think at the end of certified? Interested