OptiThreading™ - Thread turning without chip jamming
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- Опубликовано: 5 ноя 2021
- OptiThreading™ is a method with tool oscillation movements that will enable controlled chip breaking in thread turning applications. This unique method gives repeated interrupted cuts on all passes except the last one. Read more: www.sandvik.coromant.com/opti...
OptiThreading™ was developed for the CoroThread® 266 thread turning system. This method creates high cutting forces when going in and out of cut for which CoroThread® 266 is the ideal system. It can withstand the high, alternating cutting forces thanks to the iLock™ interface giving exceptional stability on insert indexing in combination with inserts and grades with high toughness.
OptiThreading™ is also suitable for T-Max U-Lock™ on smaller internal diameters and threads, with adjusted cutting data and increased number of infeeds to be able to handle the high cutting forces. 
Наука
basically "peck" threading. So clever. Obvious in hindsight, like all the best ideas.
Yeah but only a cnc machine can do it im guessing so useless really
@@smashyrashy yeah, cnc machines don't exist in real life....
Of course it's useful, for people doing production runs of parts on cnc lathes. I dont have access to a cnc lathe at work (yet) but many people do.
@@crashfactory what i mean is theyre only availabe to very few people. Not everyone is lycky enough to work for a wealthy or even just an intelligent company. I will never be able to afford one and my company will most definitely never ever buy even just one machine
@@smashyrashy you can do this manually... in fact, it's an old technique that's been around since before the beginning of screw-turning with modern lathes. You just have to do the math and measure like in the old days
@@undr_guv_surv yeah i considered it but seems very difficult
Imagine a machinist doing this on a manual lathe 😂
Hahaha, like a bent lead screw and only half of the 1/2 nut... Almost. Hahaha
Actually I don't think its that crazy. Check out this Clickspring video ruclips.net/video/7yyrILbqgMQ/видео.html If you had the base of the cutter moving across some kind of textured surface, it could make cuts like these
@@vipe_toutonche at this point just buy a cnc machine lmao, these ancient relics cost 10 times as much and are tedius to use, although beautiful, not practical
@@balthazarnaylor5874 Yeah, thats what this video we're commenting on is about. My comment is about how it could be done on a manual lathe if you were so inclined
Not impossible... Just have to mount your cutter in a semi rigid mount and occasionally whack it with a dead blow hammer to disrupt the engagement 🤣
No programmers were harmed in the making of this film.
LOL
I see they are trying to make you break more inserts.
You almost made me spill my coffee
Yeah, probably not going to be good on all materials.
Hahahaha! That makes more sense.
I actually tried this by making my own G32 Macro with U- and + increments at .005. Astonishingly it Made My inserts last 50-75% less than with standard G76. I remove the chips by running the spindle in high speed reverse and hovering the cutter .050 above the workpiece to push and unscrew the birdsnest. Works 100% of the time.
The last pass sounded like it had chatter too.
This metod was tested with free demo and works fine (now full version), no problem with tool life, same thread quality, less volume of chips in chips bin - same wight. Thrully recommend this method!!!
Nice!!
I can see it being used especially on ductile materials like copper and such.
Certain materials, the chips not breaking are the reason why a process is not reliable.
yes on aluminum, this would work wonders.
Thinking the same, I think the wear on the insert would be a lot when doing this in steel.
But would work wonders in softer materials as you said. Where the wear on the insert is less
seems like would be particularly good on ID threads where chip binding is a problem..... would very much like to see it in action.
This is very cool and also completely mad 10/10
Wie geil ist das denn? Kaum schneiden wir mal ein paar hundert Jahre lang Gewinde, schon kommt jemand auf eine total simple Idee wie es viel besser geht
What a smart idea! That's thinking outside the box done right!
This just seems to be an alternative to designing a threading insert with a chip breaker. I would imagine repeatedly plunging into the job would wear out the bottom of the insert which most gauging methods do not check(wires, soft gauges and gaugemaker would all miss minor wear). Also would need to be a very rigid setup to avoid having a wavy thread with just the one pass to clean it up. Neat idea but i think a single groove in the middle of the threading edge that got the swarf to coil tightly / at a bit of an angle would cause it to chip better, and would be a universal design without any of the drawbacks of this.
Agreed, there used to be such threading tools available at my general reseller but large companies would just buy the regular one and have their own guys grind that.
Thee hobbyist volume alone couldnt justify keeping it in stock.
Aren't we supposed to be at least a little skeptical of a different 'process' promoted by a tooling company whose main goal, if we're being honest about it, is to sell more tools and inserts? :) The process obviously does work to reduce chip buildup, but I agree that the setup/part would need to be quite rigid for best results and repeatability. It has been my experience that once you start to get some chatter on the threads, it will usually only get worse with each subsequent pass. I'm sure some will find it of use though.
@@Dyna78cut down the middle almost to depth, then side cut back then front just .001" or so each way. Then final cut just to clean up the root of the thread. I've cut 3'+ long threads this way. Even threaded through a steady with two of the bearings just touching to prevent job bending. There are so many different ways to prevent and reduce chatter.
@@iainwalker8701 That sounds like it would work well, thanks for sharing! Unfortunately, I do not run parts any more, just inspect them these days, so I won't have the opportunity to try it out.
I saw two clean up passes. One clipped the top of the wave so the final pass was uninterrupted.
Neat little set up 😯
just how quiet is this lathe? you can hear chips dropping!
It's a cool idea, but does the extra load from the cyclical forces on the tool not make it wear faster? I would be interested to see an endurance comparison
I made a similar program with macros but i was not able to try it yet. But i did it for internal diameter.
Just in time! I'm doing a full retrofitting in a lathe, I'm going for sure to implement that, so my client will be fascinated! Thank you!!!
Sandvik is excellent
Brilliant!
Wonder what the chips look like under high power scope? Nano crystal structure would be interesting to compare
I don’t know anything about machining, but that looks so cool
Absolutely brilliant idea! Coming in and out of Radial engagement between the cutting tool and work piece to make a discontinuous chip and then refining the thread profile with subsequent passes until a final continuous cut at full depth is taken to complete the thread form. 👍👍👍
Its so great idea
So cool 🥳
That is awesome! Now i just need a cnc lathe.
It's Crazy method!!!
@Sandvik
I've always wondered about starting in the back then threading out.
A ramp move on the O.D. would improve insert life.
vs
First insert contact being on the face of the work piece.
fantastic 🤩
G73 drilling code for G71 turning code 😍
years ago, i tried with MACRO but too difficult
congratulation
now I can go to my former owner and let him know that I was not wasting time 😂😇
New programming techniques... I wonder if this is an outcome of Sandvik's purchase of Mastercam
Nice song choice
Seems like it would be kinda hard on that insert point.
What's the g code look like for that?
kinda mesmerizing
Same product in the end with lubricant flowing it usually don’t collect and brakes off every cycle
Can we have an example of G code?
I still get amazed how the threads don’t get crossed.
I can write the math behind it but it still amazes me
@@conodigrom Thought the same. Doing something on paper and seeing it in reality is just something else.
That feeling when we realized we’ve been doing it wrong for decades. 🤠
So is this just a bunch of G32s with zig-zagging X-values? I assume there is an optimized pattern for the zig-zagging. Is there a special G-code program for this like Prime turning before it was integrated into CAM packages? This seems like it's beating the heck outta the insert but I suppose as long as the wear is more predictable than with chip packing at least tool life is more consistent right?
The program for OptiThreading™ (as well as PrimeTurning™) is generated by CoroPlus® Tool Path web-based software, which is available to try for free by visiting www.sandvik.coromant.com/optithreading.
Our lab and field tests show that tool life is similar or longer using OptiThreading™ compared with conventional method.
F-ing Sandvik, ya'll are cutting edge AF. Also, do it with hand wheels though bruh...
This is great. now it will be matter of the big guys implementing it in CAM packages. I assume that MasterCam will be the first one. ;) .
You can Peck thread in fusion
@@siraig That is cool! I didn't know about it.
They have aquired GibbsCAM(Cambrio), so my first guess is that.
@@MrXtacle I don't think so. Gibbscam can't primeturning so why it should optithread?
What's the g code you're using?
More clearance between tool and part would help
So if I’m understanding this correctly - you could do the same technique with other tools and inserts, but it’s more stressful and demanding than traditional threading toolpaths, so it will probably not work as well with lesser tooling?
You can break a chip on normal cutting toolpaths, but you're locked in to form cutting/feed, which makes a chipbreaker very difficulkt.
Why is it jumping around and not doing the entire thread at once?
Terrible idea intermittent cutting asking for chip breakage . Trying to fix something that isn't broken
New concept
What about a correct chip breaker
So is this operation just to clear the chip? I could see this being useful in parting off large diameter plastics but why threading?
The threading tool is far weaker to chips catching it and snapping the tool
It also generates a different kind of chip when compared to proper parting, the kind you saw in the start of the video is far worse than normal but threading still tends to generate that kind of stringy 5-6xC chip.
But there's so many other options such as tool geometry, depth of cut, spindle speed, stagger amount, retract clearance and high pressure coolant. It just seems excessive to me.
@@Num6er47 while i always appreciate more options (this might be good in doped copper as an example), this does indeed seem like an attempt from them to not change the tool but update pricing.
Guessing the peck is to avoid the long string.
Neat
Now this is really cool but how will you sell it??? Anyone who watches this video could copy this.
I haven't been working in a machine shop that long or learned enough about it yet. I've ran probably 10s of 1000s of parts the I guess the normal way? Just feeding the insert across the material at deeper increments. Pecking just looks wrong
Now that Sandvik owns GibbsCam they can add this to their threading options.
How to program this cycle
Thank you for your question. CoroPlus® Tool Path web-based software is used to generate the program for OptiThreading™. It is free to try for 30 days. Visit www.sandvik.coromant.com/optithreading to read more.
Background Soundtrack name
Those stringy chips like that are a pain
Don't have such problems if you can thread mill.
Hobby machinist: "ooooh I'm going to synchronize Z to spindle motion functions on BOTH axes, and imma gonna DO this...!" That would be neat to figure out how to do on a home-built machine.
Neat! Could do that with G32 in a macro. :)
How?
What do you think the piece of software is? All it does is chuck out g32s
@@spikeypineapple552 Have you seen the video? They are moving in and out with the X-axis while turning a pass. G32 is locked in X with each pass.
@@johs290185 you can sign up for the trial version of the software. Its a bunch of G32 X and Z movements. Could very well be done with a macro program.
@@mortimer6266 They are selling stuff like that for real money? I can do much more complex stuff... I can even do flat ends like on thread gauges without milling!
😳😳😳
😍😍😍
👍👍👍
Wouldn't that mess the tip up quicker?
It almost certainly does
Yes
Standard cycle in Esprit Cam for about 10 years
W Espricie jest taka opcja gwintowania z odskokiem podczas przejścia narzędzia? Nie wiesz czy ma to faktycznie wpływ na żywotność krawędzi?
@@adamjaroc304 tak jest, w cyklu gwintowania można to włączyć.
Ale żywotności nigdy nie sprawdzałem, i oczywiście generujemy tylko g32
I've used it. Had to set the pitch for the cycle times 2. Worked good in nickle based material
What G
code to use?
The G code can be generated using web-based software CoroPlus Tool Path, available here: www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-gb/products/coroplus-toolpath/pages/thread-turning.aspx
It is free to try for 30 days.
I imagine something similar could be possible by alternatingly advancing and retarding the translation speed of the tool, causing chips to form more on either side of the cutting tool?
Thank you for your comment. Changing speed within a threading cycle is challenging as a dislocated start-point of the spindle will lead to an incorrect thread profile.
Why??
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
It’s cool to watch tho but high pressure coolant tool holder directly to turning point can slove the problem 😎
There are cutting tools that have a chip break angle built into them so you make chips and not stringers.
Why is this beneficial in the first place?
Not a machinist but I'm guessing this would be used on some materials that are difficult to work due to the chip not breaking easily, by manually moving the tool in and out of the workpiece it causes the chip to break.
Why the chip failing to break is enough of an issue to necessitate this I don't know, beyond maybe just that having a long chip 'bird nest' being kind of annoying to deal with, or maybe scuffing the surface finish. Again, not a machinist.
Why not increase your depth of cut a bit?
We recommend using the default settings in CoroPlus® Tool Path for defining depth of cut and number of passes. Although the parameters are fully customizable in the NC code generating software, increasing the depth of cut too much can cause the insert to break.
В России упоминания в справочниках о вашей фирме в книгах 1972 году!!!
Isn't the start of a cut the most "dulling" part of cutting i feel like your inserts won't last as long with his method
Isn't that exactly what Sandvik would want? That the inserts don't last long enough.
@@SubramaniamLakshminarayanan Why would anyone buy them then or use this technology if they don't last long enough? Kind of backwards thinking there.
Helpful hint fellow engineers........ I use SECO threading inserts and they break the chip....... even in tricky materials. Also they work on manual and CNC machines with simple programming techniques!!!!! Ssshhhhhhh!!!!!!
Can ANYBODY give some price information?
This is a Softwarefeature....
CoroPlus® Tool Path web-based software is used to generate the program for OptiThreading™. It is available to try for 30 days. Subscription pricing and more information is available on www.sandvik.coromant.com/optithreading
@@sandvikcoromant this is an absolutely useless feedback from sandvic. On the website I can not find ANY pricing!
@@sandvikcoromant even worse I think if it's only a subscription and noting I can buy and owne for myself.
You have demonstrated a piezo-based active vibration damper in the milling process to reduce chatter. Could similar actuators be used to "peck", not at 1Hz but instead (say) at 1kHz?
The math hurts, but for most CNC machines its nothing.
seems like extra heat cycling on the insert.
Yea but less chance of breakage from a goofy chip or making some fucked up threads. Either it's a con or it really does increase the life of the insert and make more consistent threads. I mean it's Sandvik, they probably know what they are doing.
@@elmfuzzy1 im sure it would depend on the application, if it where me id lift the tool just enough to break the chip and no more than that.
Why are you recommending me this RUclips?
If you combined a straight line engine to a lathe you could do this manually
Ну для вязких металлов и сплавов типа меди самое то, и писать не очень сложно, правда проходов больше чем обычно будет
I need work
I am programming for the longer fanuc
I live in algéri 🇩🇿
Many companies hiring in the USA.
So it also needs a special cam procedure to actually get that going like that. Hmm 🤔
For now. Could be a feature some day though if it catches on
How about develop a tip that chips like standard turning? Bit of a no brainer really......
so do it
@@charliew.1122 gottem lmao
Thanks RUclips Algorithmus
Spindle bearings: what for???
Engineer Sandvik: shut up and work, the sun is still high!
Напишите на название музыки?
Looks like a quick way to brake your tools
I have no idea what's happening, hit like if you got recommended this
😳😳😳😳😳😳😳🤯
357
546
Но зачем?...
like pron!
Chip recovery can be inhibited by very high pressure coolant. I don't like this method , the extra wastage of the machine !
Not to mention just having proper speeds and depth of cut when threading will usually cause chip breakage. 4145 breaks easily with 100m/min and 0.2doc when threading, and lasts just as long as going 80m/min 0.1doc like most people do(at least in my shop). People will bitch about chatter, but just flank feeding instead of going straight down the middle solves it.
talk about ballscrew unnecesary wear...
Not bad for a first try but you are doing it wrong.
All fine until the X-axis starts to wear out prematurely and all the little savigs you got from this evaporate in an instant.
181617
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Or you could just retract your tool 10mm away from the job each pass giving the chips room to fall off. Much simpler than bashing your head on the keyboard trying to get the cam software to do this. What about tapered threads? !
Presumably the idea is that this is CAM-integrated, and the software produces the thread profile rather than your CAM software's thread tool. This method of profile generation produces a smooth curve usable in high-speed tooling, as much as 40x faster than this video, while any sharp change in direction or "jerk" will slow the tool down at these speeds. A tapered thread would be made in a series of passes just like a manual process.
Я застал советские системы ЧПУ, в которых в обязательном порядке в технологических циклах был параметр «Величина стружкодробления»(для токарных станков). Инженеры Сандвика улучшили задумку советскую, но принцип остался тем же, а именно: не всегда геометрия режущего инструмента и режим резвния может обеспечить надёжное дробление и ломание стружки - именно поэтому и применялся вышеуказанный параметр.
что за системы?