World's Tallest Scope Base - Does Height Over Bore Matter?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- DOES HEIGHT OVER BORE MATTER?
The distance or “height” of your scope over the bore of your rifle is an important factor in calculating your D.O.P.E. (Data On Previous Engagements aka, how much you need to dial your scope turret for elevation at distance), but, as long as you know the measurement, does it really matter how high or low it is?
Traditionally, it was accepted that a shooter would want the scope height over bore as low as possible, this made it easier to calculate your D.O.P.E. for the moderate distances you might see hunting. However, with modern-day tools like Kestrel, or even a simple downloadable phone app to help us non-mathematicians calculate this, we wanted to explore the topic a bit more, and in true MDT fashion, take this test to the extreme. Check out the video above for our result, see you out there!
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MDT was born out of a single purpose: to provide better value and better accuracy for precision rifles. The first MDT chassis was developed from the ground up based on the needs of shooters.
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When you trying to shoot enemy but you are inside a submarine
But you hit your own submarine 😂
It's called a periscope
When your gun is roleplaying as a submarine
How does a comment this moronic end up at the top 🤦♂️
@@coryb6722 And this aint it
The perfect hip fire scope mount..
Or maybe it's the future for bench rest shooter's.
Maybe it is!!
Scope risers are nothing new to BR shooters…….
@@SigmaBallistics he’s talking about a 20” one
@@rileyf8036 BR shooters already use risers probably up to 8” or so depending.
It's the future for bench rest shooter's what?
I personally think hip firing guns is more macho, but my accuracy suffers because Im not aiming down sights. Finally there is a solution. Any chance you could do an iron sights version of this CQC?
I am taught how to hip fire and you can do it well if you understand how to alight your aim with your body position
@@zatoby6705
But do you hip fire with iron sights?
In a pinch, the front site post can be used as a bayonet as well.
@@casey6104 the front sight has 2 aluminum fingers in the same of an index finger and middle finger forming a v, it sticks straight forward and you jab it at your enemies' eyes, meanwhile, under the barrel there is an aluminum foot wearing an aluminum timberland boot with a steel toe, which kicks them in the balls.
@@robertdevito5001 add razor blades to the steel toes and you have the ultimate weapon
Height over bore has never affected accuracy, just ease of use. The lower your height over bore, the less you have to compensate for the difference when shooting at distances closer or further from your zero range. I think the idea of it affecting accuracy is a massive misconception. Just like the idea of a foregrip improving your accuracy. It doesn't. Just affects your ability to grip the weapon and for some shooter, improve control of recoil, but the weapon's accuracy is not affected. People tend to use accuracy in place of the word usable when usable is a more fitting term.
Cheek weld has been my only concern with scope height.
By that reckoning sights never effect accuracy so long as they don't move at all (and I won't argue with that).
@@SaneAsylum I mean, yeah. That's what I'm getting at. The rifle has a set standard it will perform with. Anything outside of that is shooter interference. As long as your scope doesn't lose zero, regardless of height over bore, the moa will always be based on the rifle and ammo and the ability of the shooter to remain consistent.
@@aaronmiles1971 Yeah. If you mount it too low, it can really be hard to get a good eye box. I like my weld to be somewhere in between chin and cheek.
@@aaronmiles1971 For me, cheek weld only gives me a nice comfy feel rather than real a accuracy boost. Because when standing. cheek weld only matters when you shoot fairly rapidly, and when you're at that fire rate, a solid chin weld coupled with locked tight shoulders would yield the same result. But that's only personal experience.
Be prepared to make these now. People are going to want them lol
Yes, we've had a few requests!
When can I purchase?
I would buy one to put on an AK side rail just to be outrageous.
I actually want one of these bases.
Imagine the gun case you would need if you didn’t want to unmount it.
"The real reason why your stock is on back order"
Thank you so much for watching! Please rest assured that production is constantly moving, and fun projects and videos like this won't hinder shipping times. Over time, we get questions such as this one "does scope height matter" so our prototyping department decided to meet that challenge and come out with this super fun crazy ring height. Since this is a separate department from our manufacturing, it doesn't slow us down for shipping and provides fun video content for our viewers.
😂😂😂
This is how you make a point. Build the hyperbole and prove it. Genius.
That's how you find what is better or worse. Test both extremes and see what is better than the other
I think the most important thing that extreme height over bore brings to the table is cant. I would think the extremely high mount would make a big difference with that. So I'm definitely excited to see that video.
Check it out, you may be surprised!
@@MDTTAC definitely will. But now that I think of it, degrees of a circle remain the same no matter the size of the circle 🤔 your rifle cants 3°, so does the optic, even if it's moving on a larger arc 😱 maybe over thinking this 😂
I think it would make the cant easier to see in the scope and correct for, since small adjustments in the rifle will make for large movements in the scope
@@keatoncyre9926 it will shift your point of impact for sure
Line of sight to bore offset does not change the magnitude of poi error for any given angle of cant, it only changes the direction of the error.
Oh MAN, me and my friends have an inside joke called "tall scope" which is about some drawing I'd made like 5 years ago of a stick figure hip firing an AK, but the rifle had a scope mount that brought it up to his eye, so he could ADS while hipfiring. This video is definitely going to each of them.
"Tall scope" lol nice story
I want the picture
@@wombatburrito5896 I have it, but I have no clue how to get it to you
@@darkninjacorporation take a picture of it or scan it, upload it to an image sharing site, Google drive, etc and post the link here for us to see it
@@jasonharrison25 Problem with that is my dude is the tube friggin hate links. I have had several comments launched in the sun because I linked to imgur.
now this is the content we need! :D well done MDT for having some fun with it
Thank you and thanks for watching!
"Mom, can we have artillery?"
"No, we have artillery at home!"
The artillery at home:
Looks like something that would be invented in WW1 so that snipers can bayonet charge into no mans land with the infantry and still be able to hip fire snipe the enemy in the other trench.
hip fire snipe while bayonet charging.... I am at a total loss for words at the sheer idiocy of such an idea.
I remember The AK Guy once said that his theory is AR guys are working towards an optic riser that lets them mount their optics so high they can use their optic while using the fleshlight stock
I dont think the argument is the accuracy of the gun or projectile, i think the “accuracy” ideal is more about the “ease” of insuring a hit when computer enhanced calculations arent available. Its literally 2 angles. Bore angle and scope angle. The closer those 2 are together on one side, obviously the closer those 2 will be on the other. So in my opinion, the argument is that its easier to achieve a more precise hit on targets at 100yds or 300yds (lets say both rifles were zero’d at 200yds) with the more parallel optic than the tall boy. I dont think anybody ever argued the accuracy of the gun or projectile.
For when you want to shoot with the rifle on your lap while sitting in a lazyboy.
haha, no kidding!
Funny video but a great one, I have been wondering how height over bore effects accuracy. My curiosity did not account for a situation this extreme but I cannot deny that this clearly answered the questions I had.
Before watching, I'd say it has no effect on accuracy if it's zeroed for where you're shooting. But say you're zeroed for 100m, and shooting at a target 125m away, that height over bore will significantly come into play and will require more compensation.
Exactly you could have the scope 6ft up and 6ft to the side and hit the same target if you sight it in lol dunno how anyone can't understand it
@@raynman6466 I think the problem people have is that for most practical uses where you aren't shooting at a static target at a precisely known distance and with all the time in the world to make adjustments, this is functionally inaccurate.
Started like a 1st of april video for sure!
Great question answered awesomly.
Thank you!!!
Worlds smallest group shot from the hip?
We will have to try it!!
Please do a limited run of these things!!!! It would be really funny to have one of these on my wall hangers lol
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that height over bore affected accuracy. The whole reason people have said they want a low scope mount has always been (theoretically) to keep the scope more in line with the flight path and therefore reduce the amount of adjustment needed to dial throughout various ranges (although this really doesn’t matter anymore since we all have access to ballistic software via our phones - the only time I can see a potential benefit would be if you’re hunting and have no time to calculate dope - even then, why are you shooting at an animal without having your dope calculated?).
I guess we can all test this right at home with ballistic software. Test the amount of adjustment required to dial out to 200, 300, 400, etc. with two different height over bore amounts. When I do it for a 6.5 CM, outside of the initial come-up, the difference between each subsequent 100 yard increment is very close between a 4” height over bore compared to a 1”. And surprisingly the 4” height turns out to need slightly less adjustment at each subsequent yardage. Myth busted
Why try to get a cheek rest when you can have a hip rest.
Right!!
@@MDTTAC They wanted a good cheek weld....engineers (the brainy ones) just got the wrong cheek.
My red dot runs almost 5" height over bore with a tube mounted 12 o'clock setup. The chin weld was a little tough to get used to, but in 5.56 from 25 to 300 yds at a 66 yd zero, I'm within 4" on elevation between those ranges. It works out very well for me.
Why 66 yard zero? I’ve just seen 50 and 100 for 5.56
@TEXT+①⑤⓪⑤⑤⑧⑤②①⑦⑥ get in touch
This is fucking brilliant. Can I borrow that mount?
HahaHaha , that thumbnail image is absolutely hilarious! Has me rolling! Great video!
I want one for home defense and hunting. I can be in my tree stand while my rifle is on the ground. Genius.
Getting all the way to the range and realizing you forgot the staple gun is a mood.
Yea it is....
But hey…I have my 20” high scope mount!
All I gotta ask is, what would John Wayne say about this? Excellent video MDT. Great info for us looking to refresh our skills.
john wayne would shake his head and say, whats the point
Very cool video showing that the height of the mount does not affect accuracy. A lot of people are wrong about this.
But in my humble opinion, the existence of different height mounts is not just about the ergonomic comfort of the shooter. It also has to do with the optimized use of the ballistic curve. It is possible to observe in the video that in both comparisons a zeroing strategy was used: the choice of zero at the top of the ballistic trajectory. If we look at the ridge it went from 100 yards to 300 yards (correct me if I'm wrong). This shows that for long distance shots it is advisable to use high mounts and for short distances lower mounts. That's because, physically, taller mounts tend to throw the ridge (the point blank range) further away from the firing point.
With that same thought in mind, we can say that, if the shooter has the habit of zeroing his platform always at the top of the ballistic trajectory (or with an uninterrupted point blank range of small killzone - small diameter) and using those height-adjustable mounts, raising the rear mount is the same as using a non-adjustable low profile mount. On the other hand, raising the front mount is the same as using a high profile non-adjustable mount. I see that most shooters buy those adjustable mounts, they only buy these mounts with the objective of reaching very distant targets, but they forget that this projectile will have a very steep climb, a very high killzone and this will result in a poor use of the ballistic curve. Thank you for the video and for the commitment to make an unprecedented test.
When "standing desk" people design a rifle
Awesome to see these experiments!
This is some Bugs Bunny shit. I love it.
Did you consider a raised cheek rest to make things more stable when shooting?
Its not even April!!
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Thank you guys, i needed this lol!!
🇨🇦😎👌
this build is perfect for Arnold Schwarzenegger. he always shoot guns below the chest height in the movies ... lol
You should test it at a closer range like for. 22 and what not...... I was always taught that it makes somewhat of a difference when it's close range 🤔
Nice shooting. Nice to see our brothers from the north lol so close you can almost taste the maple
Needs a cheek riser to match! Great video guys
I used to joke about having a 2' optic mount so I could hip fire and see my optic since higher and higher optic mounts are the new old thing now.... now it's a reality....
now go take that somewhere and shoot at something moving without a laser range finder or some fancy ballistic calculator.
Was this a gbrs precision rifle prototype mount that you decided to make a video on?
Hahaha
I was looking for a GBRS comment and I’m glad I found one!
I need that for a CQB rig. Could also use it to go sailing. Just need a Glock for the anchor.
The standing desk for bench rest shooters
height over bore plus an offset from bore is where the fun happens.
This needs to be in tarkov for much more cursed builds...
Time to do a sight under bore test.
Height over bore is very important. Any extra height magnifies cant
That's why having a level on your rifle is very important and the Send It Levels are an awesome tool to help you get on, and stay on target!
We're gonna go oot to distance and find oot if scope over bore height matters
Forget scope kiss, this mount allows you to send the recoil to your nuts
What I’m hearing is when I wanna shoot really far away Mount the scope really high and it gives you way more room for adjustment in your scope
Dear Nikita, please add this to Tarkov
This should allow Mark & Sam to get to 10 miles now :P
Should have mounted a periscope on it to bring shooter's eye back down to normal height. That would have been hilarious! Great video guys
Looks like a setup that Giraffe would use if they could.
People's idea of accuracy needs to have a basis of understanding of what the rifle is used for. This setup for 1 distance would be great, but using this to change shot distance quickly would be a nightmare.
I can already imagine all the king of the hill billies just relaxing on a beach chair, beer in hand, with the rifle sitting on the front porch while the scope just about reaches eye level. In short, it's perfect.
This is actually PERFECT for a sniper hiding in a multi-story building, mount the rifle to a ceiling, cut a hole in the floor above it, feed the scope through the hole, your shots will look like they're coming from the floor below you so even if you are spotted they won't be shooting at the right window, just hope the wall in front of you is thick enough their bullets won't go through in case they hit high, now test out a "pariscope-style" scope and see if you can hide behind a corner while still being able to accurately fire a sniper
The problem with high scope mounts isn't accuracy, it's the fact that your shooting arc becomes a lot steeper, and it will also cause you to miss everything closer than a football field.
Which just means you need to calculate and adjust for it - or use a different sight/weapon for close up engagements.
@@MiaogisTeas which sounds great in theory, but if you are a hunter with a brush gun, the last thing you want to carry is a 10 pound rifle with multiple optics that get caught on every twig and branch along the way.
You need the worlds tallest cheek rest now!
Good video.
Even with the lowest rings I can use with my scope I still need a cheek riser to bring the comb up enough to be comfortable. So I have absolutely no need for tall rings.
Now that is an impressive scope mount. 🤣
_MSRP???_ This is the future right here.
Very cool video thanks for the test guys!
Thanks!
Now, you can quick-scope while hip firing~
😂
Ok but it affects accuracy if you change the range of your target without re-sighting ur scope in
If you have a scope that’s closer to the bore and it’s sighted in for 200m, your accuracy is going to drop much less the closer/farther away you change positions from it than it would with a big ass thing like that. This is assuming you don’t sight in your optic after changing ranges of course.
So when people make this claim I assume they’re referring to when they’re in high octane situations where they can’t repeatedly zero their optic over and over again such as in airsoft or milsims. It’s the same reason why I don’t like riser mounts on my m4, because I know that dot isn’t gonna have the same accuracy at 25m as it would at 50m. Sure it’s not gonna be the same either way but the closer to the bore you put your sight, the more range differentiation you have to play around with and your shots arnt gonna be too off from what you originally sighted it in to be
This
Nice demo. HoB is also about "natural point of aim". Your 20" example shows how crazy you have to train your muscles to manipulate the rifle to get on target. But down to 1.75" HoB vs 4" HoB.... who cares. If it naturally shoulders and reticle naturally pops into your view in a normal head position... that will be best for a shooter to quickly find target.
Also, expanding on this, you're in some danger of hitting objects in front of your rifle you're just staring over with your massively elevated scope (e.g. a wall, window sill, tree stump, what have you) .
correct me if 'm wrong but I would think a higher mount like that could in theory improve accuracy. By lengthening the lever arm between the scope and the rifle, you've created a situation where you're effecting less angle for every bit of noticeable movement in the scope. By that i mean you should have finer precision in leveling your rifle platform
What stops you from still holding it not 100% upright?
Noticing the scope is not alligend with the horizon?
I think I get your point but I am not 100% decided yet.
Where this matters is your elevation adjustments on your scope,
Omg when I first saw him look through the scope and the stock was in his crotch that was classic
imagine being hip fired from 800m. chad activities.
This is excellent.
Idk why height above bore is all the rage, height under bore is what we need
For keeping head below cover and having bore above cover.
Firing from 100% cover/concealment would be a game changer
Cant argue with that!
That’s fine for firing at the specific ranges it’s sighted into
But adjusting your aim on the fly in the field would be a nightmare
Bar none the sight DIRECTLY down the Bore However it is tough to sit the sight in the head of a bullet...........? Now theres a tech invention ...Micro sight on tip of bullet....However Field of View will be of issue..You ThiMk?
Could be done like a reflector telescope using a mirror with a hole in the middle for the barrel.
Reminds me of the Holley “Sky Ram” April fools high rise intake. It actually performed better than they thought, looks ridiculous tho.
When the scope mount is longer than your barrel
a solidly mounted scope will of course be capable of being zeroed. the higher the height over bore, the greater number of variables, which means the greater chance of failure. personally, the "it only matters when hunting" statement was ridiculous. I think it is fair to say the majority of shooters don't run ballistic calculators and take wind readings when trying to make shots, and not all non-hunting shooting takes place at a bench. A mount this ridiculously high demonstrated the issue, the fact that you are basically required to use a lot of math to hit anything not at your zeroing range. is it accurate? of course, that has little to do with the scope as long as it's solidly mounted and not broken, that is primarily the rifle. you effectively tested the mechanical accuracy of the rifle, not the practical accuracy of the system. it technically does work on a theoretical level, in ideal settings where everything is literally plotted out.
Yeah. They did science?
Ideal settings are needed for a proper scientific trial
I think the best thing i saw in this video was the air compressing around the bullet as it travelled the trajectile path.
Amazing video!
Also that chart does a great job of showing why a lot of military rifles have such high bore offsets especially old Russian stuff zeroed at 400m so if you aim center you'll always hit out to that range.
Like what? A mosin? Lol
Instead of a cheek weld, gotta use that croch weld
Very cool
Great video guys
Thank you so much!!
So, this would be good for anyone looking to coax mount the rifle, with the mounted scope being above the commander's hatch?
Now we've come full circle 60 years on to Stoner being proved a genius once again by putting sights on a carry handle.
As long as you make the right range corrections you should be OK. Some weird configurations like for lever actions will throw off the parallax if mounted off center.
Of course height over bore doesn't matter at range. Height over bore only actually matters in close quarters.... That's why you need to know your holds. .. ... tf.
I get the point of this, but no mention about being off axis. The higher the mount, the more exaggerated the misalignment will be between line of sight and bullet path if your rig isnt perfectly level.
ruclips.net/video/KDtKkS3G_Mw/видео.html is the follow-up and answers that exact question!
*GBRS and tacticool AR users sweating profusely in the background*
I wished there was some short range shooting to show where the mount height really matters!
For hunters the close range shots are very important unlike benchrest long range shooters...
*Diagram was pretty intriguing tho!*
Does it effect accuracy, no, does it effect ease of use, yes. It depends how you are using your rifle, If you are setting up and calculating and adjusting your reticle for every shot, it is not as relevant (assuming you are not at your limits of adjustment). If you are in the field and trying to make quick snap shots at a variety of ranges it is relevant as it will effect the distance over which your sight reticle is close to your POI.
Obviously there's a difference in angles, it's strongest closeup.
You can visualize it by drawing 2 lines starting at different heights and converting at the desiref zero distance.
If you want to get more fancy, make the lower line follow a ballistic curve.
The further you shoot, the smaller the perceived angle gets, but also the ballistic curve gets stronger...
I picked up my DPGunworks yesterday at my FFL and stopped at my friends shop to show it off before I went home to get a scope mounted on it. He showed me his new build and his last two, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6BR. I was surprised at his scope heights, they were 3” above bore. He explained that he did it for comfort, not having your neck cranked when on scope. His explanation sounded plausible so I went home picked out my scope and mount. Weaver T36 and PEPR one piece mount. When mounted it was over 2.8” which seemed odd to me but very comfortable. I got the scoped zeroed and was shooting 1/4” groups at 50yds. All the comments were beautiful rifle but why is so scope so high. I’m a convert this this set up and getting up this morning I found your video, very extreme but perfectly explained and did you see how straight his neck is looking through the scope, just think more realistic and the theory works. Thanks for the great, fun video.
It's a really cool to see the bullets going down range simply because of the air disturbance
When you ask if you could.....but forget to ask if you should.......welp time to replace the stock with a fleshlight!
I always wondered where the recoil gonna kick. 🤣🤣🤣
Nice video. Thumbs up and subscribed. 👍👍👍
It will make very little difference in accuracy at any given range.... Problem is sight in at 100 yards or 8oo yards it will work.. BUT changing distances like 800 to 700 or from 100 to 300 you do not have enough adjustment in any normal optic. You are far beyond the typical 40min +_ adjustment.
How about scope below bore? Would have to be mounted via a side rail and hung off the edge of the table to make possible. With a wood bench and a strip of wood as a buttstop screwed to the table/bench so you don’t hit yourself in the head when you pull the trigger 😂
You could have built a periscope to go with that and you didn’t. I’m really disappointed in you guys..
This actually has a practical application for people in mobility devices like wheelchairs and those who can't actually bend over.
This is great because you get to use the 100/550 zero
Maximum point blank range about 650 yards