Why Smash Clones Always Fail
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2024
- Let's examine why games like nick all-star brawl and Multiversus seemed to die. What are these platform fighters missing or doing wrong? Let's try to examine this and take a look at some issues with these games.
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#multiversus #supersmashbros #supersmashbrosultimate
I feel like something was missing from MultiVersus. I played it a little bit with some friends but kept telling myself I would rather play Smash. I know a lot of my friends were having a problem with people who were getting too good too quickly at the game, so every single game they were getting dunked on and quit because of it. I think there's something to be said about that as an issue for games in general. I've seen it happen before where a game gets a lot of players really early on but gets ruined by people who sit down and learn the game like the back of their hand and then dominate every single game they play. It also doesn't help that the game didn't really have any sort of authentic hype around it with bigger content creators. Sure people were playing the game because of sponsors and it worked before, but the thing is that once the contract was over no one talked about the game anymore. It's really hard to replicate a Minecraft or Fortnite and I feel like paying your way into it is going to be a quick way to getting some initial players but a quick and steep decline
Something of a hot take, but I see a lot of platformers try to make competitive tech a priority. Like they thought it was important that Spongebob could wavedash, but the casual player doesn't care about that. The casual player wants a wacky storymode where the Nicktoons have to team up to save the world or something. Yes, competitive players keep the game going, but casual players bring in the money.
Thank you exactly. Every game doesn’t need to cater for the smash community and every platform fighter isn’t trying to be smash or is a smash clone. It sucks that in order to be casually good at a platform fighter, you have to learn every single tech in a game, like wave dashing and short hopping. Not to mention smash doesn’t feel good to everyone that plays it. for some people it feels very restrictive. and the biggest hot take I have is that smash players won’t just put down smash and pick up another game because it’s tech is like smash. They’ll complain until they change the game, come out saying how great it is then go back to playing smash. Theres no need to cater to their needs cause they’ll stay on smash anyway
That dunkey vid was right, you can add as many iconic characters as you want, but if you refuse to make more than 4 maps over the course of a year then your game’s not gonna last very long.
But it’s also worth noting that these clones are made by companies’ skeleton crews, often just lacking the sheer manpower required to roll out meaningful content to keep pace with an ever-feverish playerbase. Multiversus had super passionate developers behind it, but weren’t given the necessary tools and management to actually craft a long lasting product. This goes for Nick Brawl too, which feels like it was legitimately developed by a team of six or seven people.
I actually do think a smash clone using a property like Cartoon Network or Disney could be HUGE and really challenge smash, but it would require actual management. The hype around multiversus was unreal for that short window of time, all it takes is for the right people to keep that lightning in the bottle.
Idk about you guys but I really miss Subspace Emissary from Brawl
Same, World of Light was ok but not the same as Subspace Emissary. Also wish they brought back boss rush mode.
The only good smash bros story mode
Another things you should've mentioned is that almost every time there's a new "smash clone" they *always* get something wrong.
With Playstation all Stars, you couldn't launch your opponents off screen because you basically fought in a box, you had to KO them using the equivalent to a final smash, they basically removed the feature that makes Smash bros such a fun and unique game and replaced it with something far worse in every way. (Only redeeming thing was the roster, I genuinely would love to have Isaac Clarke, Raiden, Booker De Witt, Kratos and Big daddy as playable characters in smash, or for Big daddy to be at least an assist trophy/spirit or a Mii)
NASB was incredibly unpolished, had little content, no skins making dittos confusing, no voice acting making the fights more boring and focused so much in competitive gameplay that they scared away the casual audience (the bigger and more appealing audience) that got obliterated by professional players from both Smash Ultimate and Melee that tried out the game.
Multiversus was yet another live service game in an oversaturated market, and they haven't updated the game in months, they haven't released any significant content that can engage players and it made them not care about this game enough to justify grinding for months or paying to unlock a single skin or character.
Smash Bros is extremely polished and fun, it has a lot of content even without DLC, the DLC offered a lot that kept players engaged and it appeals to both casuals and professionals
Good video. Glad someone finally talked about Multiversus' artificial hype. A ton of the hype for it was just content creator grifters moving on to it after they gaslit people into thinking Nickelodeon All Star Brawl was dead 2 weeks after release.
I can totally understand on the part on how other platform fighters focus too much on competitive play. I like playing and understanding the competitive scenes of platform fighters, but then I wonder how much I would have cared of them if I were still more interested in the casual side. Would I have cared about the fact that you can wavedash or that there's rollback netcode for online play as a casual player? Probably not. I probably would have looked at these games and thought, "there's no final smashes, no story mode, no items, no mini games, in that case, I'm not interested." Which I think that's probably the main reason why most other platform fighters don't make it big like Smash. It's because casual players are often forgotten about when making the games.
A actual budget, single player content, polish. These are things some of these platform fighter games lack. Also focusing on just the competitive sceen is dumb, yes its an important aspect but not everyone is gonna give ip their time for it.
6:56 brawlhala still pretty relevant to these day, and also rivals of aether and i feel like those are the most active plataform fighter
Nice video and analysis on why smash clones tend to fail. I want to throw in another important piece on why smash clones tend to fail:
Identity.
This is a recurring issue that I tend to notice with many smash clones. Developers need to study why Smash Bros became popular in the first place. Having popular characters and gearing toward competitive gameplay isn't an identity, it is just another cliche marketing strategy to create hype and pull in a player base.
Multiverses just didn't have an established identity and using iconic IPs wasn't enough to hold an audience. Warner Bros using iconic IPs felt more like a gimmick and a cheap nostalgia tactic just to keep players hooked. The reason why a lot of fighting games hold up is because of their identity. Mortal Kombat has such extreme violence that it changed the face of ESRB ratings, Street Fighter created the Hadōken, and Tekken was one of the first 3d fighting games.
Even more niche fighting games such as Guilty Gear hold an identity as they helped kicked the anime-fighting genre. Guilty Gear also includes a lot of heavy-metal references and is home to musical tracks that is unrivaled compared to its competitors. Super Smash Bros is home to characters that changed the video game industry and culture.
But for Multiversus? The developers just had to use some of the most generic tactics such as being free-to-play and tedious grinding just to enjoy the game. Being home to a bunch of IP's is not enough to save a game.
I grew up playing smash so all of these clones aren’t as good as the original
trust me smash is not as good as you think edit: sorry if i was being harsh i understand if you are casual
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i won't like the vid unless you take back what you said about using the term "smash clone"
at least you only said it about multiversus
I think you are right about the casual content. Mi little nephew and his friends have a blast playing Smash, creating their own rules about the items. Hell, they even play in the 75m stage.
I think the current over saturation of video games in general is also a factor, I only have so much time and money and these games keep trying to get more and more grindy for "player engagement" with their battle passes and whatnot
A lot of hype gets sorrounded behind these types of things but it's always a "This will be" rather than "This is". Thats the problem
It's weird how Brawlhalla doesn't get much attention when it has 100 million players with 20million monthly players (crossplay). Insanely good tournament entries online and LAN, massive prize pools, consistent developer support, extremely active community. It's not nearly as recognized as Smash (it does not have the massive legacy or storied history of it), but it deserves some praise imo. It's different from Smash in basically every way but the genre. People are very quick to discount it without giving it a serious try and how good high level competitive play is. Also one of the most balanced fighting games ever.
Companies don’t want to invest sadly.
That's why story mode was *super* important in Overwatch 2 and Blizzard chose greed.
Great video, well rounded points.
All in all I feel like smash has already captured the hearts and minds of many gamers for years, so just like a love interest, there can be flings out there and one night stands, but nothing ever compares to where it all started and the one where love was most invested.
I feel like even new games can hold that value to someone if it is their first and where they Garner nostalgia.
It's all so dependant on the user and the circumstances overall. But no game can ever recapture that virgin love or experience like the first one can if the bond's been well established
I have the same feelings towards world of warcraft after trying dozens of mmorpgs. Sure each one is fantastic in its own way, but nothing can ever fully level out with how magical the experience was of for rst stepping foot on Azeroth with a new form of life and magic to explore
The animations in Smash-likes feel lifeless.
I disagree. I think it's simply the market is already saturated in the platform fighter space. Brawlhalla, a game with practically zero single player content (not even an arcade mode iirc) has 15k concurrent players on PC alone. You might think it's because Brawlhalla is free, well Multiversus is free, and it's best to appeal to people already invested in the genre, and still isn't doing great. I don't think simply adding X means the game would do great.
Smash did well because it sold well, trying to make a complete package with all its single player content. Brawlhalla is doing well because it created a niche (a free to play platform fighter live service) and continued support. It's targeting a different audience. Multiversus wanted to get the same audience Brawlhalla has, but Brawlhalla already exists and is more developed, and so that's why I think it failed. If Multiversus tried to mimic smash, smash players are still going to play smash.
People already have a game made for them. To me, that's all.
The reason why I drop most platform fighters aside from smash is the way the game feels to play.
Smash feels tight, responsive, and fast. It just feels nice to control
All the other games (mainly multi) feel very floaty and slow. They feel sluggish, and not as fun to play
There's only one reason I stopped playing Multiversus: A complete lack of "PvE" for local/offline. In Smash Bros, I exclusively play against bots. when I play with others in my family, we're always on the same team fighting against an equal-size team of CPUs. Multiversus didn't have that when I downloaded it, so I just never bothered to check up on it again. I tried Brawlhalla, but the controls were *way* too... uncontrollable, in all honesty.
I think it's like the reason amiibo are the only successful toy ls to life thing and that is just that the ven diagram of people who like video games and people who play video games is just two circles on top of each other. Where as with any other ip based video games they will have to get people who like the ip to like playing a game or people who like to play games to give the ip a shot, it's alot more work to get someone to buy a my little pony videogame then it is to get someone to buy an animal crossing game.
THIS. Most AAA devs don't want kids' cartoons to be shoved down their throats, and back in the 2010s, Activision and Little Orbit were doing licensed games and many of them were terrible at best, including that infamous Ghostbusters 2016 game that was so bad it caused its dev to file for bankruptcy. Not only that, you also need a LOT of knowledge to make a proper NON-crossover cartoon game that doesn't feel like an officially greenlit fanfic or break the continuity of the series.
I thought of, while watching this video, how if you want to make a casual racer like Mario Kart, you basically need an established property, because Nintendo already set the standard of that being the case. In a similar way, Smash has set a standard where the characters are all from the same or related franchises, and that immediately restricts most interest in these types of games without gimmick of a recognizable cast of characters. I mean, do you ever see someone making a game like Mario Kart without using their own established characters?
Note how one of your points for why platform fighters should be more prevalent is so other characters can be playable in other games.
One of my biggest issues with most platform fighters that try to copy Smash is just how clunky their movement is.
Smash has such a great feel to its playstyle, every input doing exactly what you want it to do, every death being your own fault.
In a lot of these other games, because the inputs are so clunky and the end lag for every move is so long, it never feels like it's my fault that I'm losing. I'm constantly having to fight with the game to do what I want to do. It's why Finn was so powerful early on in the game's history, he was the least clunky character in the game and had the least amount of end lag for his moves.
But even just looking at side by side comparisons with Smash and other Platform fighters you can see just how much each player is struggling on the other games compared to smash.
imo I like the feel of Multiversus n NASB cuz to me Smash Ultimate character's has very stiff n clunky control n i barely have control over whoever I play in SSBU . I literally only play Steve. Kirby, Jigglypuff, Pyra n Mythra cuz they are thy least clunky characters on the roster
@@VitaStarzthank you!!!!! Not everyone feels like smash has the tightest moment. Cause it doesn’t. I hate sliding when I’ve already stopped pushing forward. Or how little control you have in the air. I tell people all the time smash is a competitive poke simulator. there’s no actual combos to be had
I thought mulitversus was just a joke i didn't know it was supposed to be an actual game. Memes are the only thing that keeps these games somewhat going for a bit until everyone gets tired amd eventually doesn't give a shit
The problem with these “smash clones” games is simple. It’s not with the platform fighter genre in general. I think there is definitely a market for these games and they could be really successful if done properly. Multiverses is a perfect example of this. It had the blueprint to maybe be just as successful as smash bros with all the possibilities for characters that people would love to play as in a fighting game. It failed mainly due to how it was handled after launch. There were a few other problems but overall it had the framework to be a great game. Why these games fail is because they try to be too different from what has already proven to be successful. Usually with with lesser quality also. I think the saying “if you can’t beat em, join em” really applies. Super Smash Bros. has winning formula with an established fan base. Platform fighters don’t have to be EXACTLY like smash bros, but I think most people would love to be able to play a quality game similar to super smash bros without having to own a Nintendo console. I know I wish I could to be able to play my friends that only have Xbox or Playstation.
I actually think Nick All Star Brawl is a better example of the downfall of these titles. It focused almost exclusively on competitive played and it died way faster than Multiverses (basically it was a round a week at best). In their gameplay showcase, they showed off wavedashing and their weird parry system. They focus each character showcase as if diehards were watching. This is the game that should be the most fun and whacky. Multiverses gets shit I think because it was bigger so its failure is more apparent, but I think they had a more interesting vision and identity. The issues it had were similar to what you said with the added issue that its platforming mechanics were iffy.
Good point, I play a lot of Flash Party, but I'm afraid that the game simple get closed. They just focus on pvp, there ir no pve or story mode, like u said
in agreement with the reasoning here. the idea that smash holds a monopoly shouldn't be the case. it seems that the titans who have fallen underneath the earth sized blot that is smash are attempting one more time. here's to potential redemption and understanding i suppose. if anyone is to ever rival nintendo in a smash like setting it'd probably take another company of their size to try.
I don’t think all platform fighters are necessarily smash clones, They are definitely inspired probably though. I actually thought NASB and Multiversus were pretty fun, but it is kinda obvious why they wouldnt live up to the hype like smash bros. Yes its cool to see another game like Smash Bros with all those recognizable ips thats why they were hyped in the first place. Nickelodeon All Star Brawl had a good dev team the same ones that made Slap City but Nickelodeon gave them a small budget, so they had little to work with. It did have a sports game mode for casual fans but that was basically it I do think they ended up adding items though I’m not sure. Multiversus was going strong, but my guess is what made people quit and what turned people away was that characters costed honestly a lot of coins. What if you wanted to play as your favorite WB character but you had to grind for them? Yes you can just pay money but most people do not wanna go that option. I know sometimes they make characters free to play as for a limited time and then rotate it but still. The video games aren’t really Nickelodeon or Warner Brother’s main focus, its more on like the cartoons/media/movies. They still want to market there ips as much as possible, thats why games were made but they basically just put it out and there done with it. I still hope Multiversus stays strong but yeah. And maybe Smash Bros never losed all that hype was cause its been around for so long! Since the Nintendo 64! Some platform fighters are still going strong at least like Rival of Aethers with its strong modding community and the up and coming Fraymakers. Great video by the way.
Well for Nick All-Stars, it was confirmed in a chat with Hungrybox that the game was made in reference to Melee's in-gameplay speed which was popular in the competitive scene
Smash ultimate will be the last *"perfected"* smash bros of it's franchise, and it would be a good time for other platform fighters or unannounced new platform fighters to step up their game. f Nintendo, lol.
Multiversus is gonna regain its shine with a small player base overtime, totally a big guess but I feel like tony and the devs are taking there time before actually unveiling the full game Release where there developers and Tony will actually put an effort with new characters(plus gaining legality with Warner bros characters) and plus the awesome maps they made was amazing !! Although there may be bugs and lag you just learn to play around them. But until the full game is released the game will be a hit
hope so, it's a pretty cool game
In alot of cases the n64 smash has more content than these clones do. Not even to bring up melee and brawls hundreds of hours of single player
You're underrated
I also don't like these clones. XD
So, they're trend-chasing nostalgia-bait
Yeah aim for the eSports community because working with Nintendo in a tournament environment is terrible , so there is a void to fit , the problem is money nickelodeon all star was good but janky in controls so the competitive scene dropped it , same with multiversus. Take the time to develop a solid competitive game and the fgc will take you far
Where is Brawlhalla in this vid? the game is really succeful
Underrated youtuber
thank you!!
Also online only matches is terrible
I quite multiverses since my wife is finnecy and I couldn’t always get a stable connection (especially on PS5 since the online subscription just blocks people out of some games
Smash is playable completely off line with only the shitty online being disabled
Also I hate battle passes, DLC microtransactions and live service
Honestly I actually loved multiversus when it first came out but ranked mode never released and just got bit boring still play every so often
Short answer. They just aren't mechanically good and have enough content. A smash game takes years to develop and polish and it's clear there's passion behind the direction of the games. Other platform fighters don't have enough past the surface to keep you coming back and they all feel cheap
Multiverse had a chance but they kinda just stopped with that game 🤷🏻♂️ and now it’s too late I feel
I want a smash alike for indies
Like immagine sans Vs omori
Fraymakers is an upcoming smash like fighter with indie characters in it, theres also another indie platform fighter called indie pogo. They both dont have Sans or Omori but who knows maybe they can be added characters in the future or dlc characters
@@scwiby I put it in my buy list
Where can I play it?
@@yuriswasd7238 Steam
@@scwiby maybe I will buy it one of this days
gonna leave 2 comments. one before the video and one after. the title is a grossly oversimplification of the platform fighter genre as a whole as misses the point that it shouldn't only be smash. we do not have the entire fgc call the entirety of the 2d arcade style fighters "street fighter clones." i know it's probably for recognition or views or controversy or some other way to stir interactivity but next time, please. do the genre a favor by putting some respect on its name. please and thank you.
Edit 1: a second in and i've eaten my own words. XD
Well for me the reason why smash clones doesn't go is because
1 is ftp,I know is a good point but at the same time someone do one/two games and stop
Second: smash have a legacy and an expirience so evryone know what they can do or not
You know, I have been asking myself the same question. And you know something they are right about lack of voice acting, lack of characters, lack of perspective, etc. However even if that are right, they are also half wrong. Why? Well we all know that smash bro series has the content everybody wants and needs and even Nintendo and Sakurai was trying to tell and/or show people that the game is fundamental. But since they have alot tournaments for smash bros, which is slowly dying, people just dont seem to give a care in the world about fundamentals, minigames, or even the characters. Mutilversus on the other hand, people been complaining about the content itself, the battle pass, and the schedules even tho it's a BETA version of the game. Nickelodeon AllStar Brawl has good characters, but lacks of some budgets, lacks of animations, lacks of content, and lacks of voice acting which they fixed it and the people STILL complains about it. Brawhalla has no voice acting, no 3D animations which there is no problem with it, and it never gets enough attention for no reason. I mean I can list of many "smash liked" games with some flaws but not all games are perfect it's not easy to get a good game and a good deal beggars can't be choosers. What does all the smash-liked games with some flaws tells us? Hm? It tells us that some of us are being hypocritically, selfish, greedy, ungrateful, competitive people that cannot be satisfied or make up our minds with what we have given. I just hope people can either see the error of their ways and make up their minds and be happy with what they have, or just play any platform fighting games at all because stuff like this is getting us nowhere.
I feel like most people generally believe Smash bros is just better than the competition. I agree. Why would I wanna play Brawlhalla or Multiverses or PlayStation Allstars or etc, when I can just play Smash which is the most incredible fighter of like ever
I''ve played Smash for so many years, but imo Smash Ultimate is the worst one in the series, most of the characters have clunky controls and stiff combat to where it feels like i don't have control over what i do with anyone on the roster, that's y i only play Kirby, Jigglypuff, Steve, Pyra, n Mythra cuz they are thy only characters that doesn't feel clunky n stiff. that's y i like Multiversus n especially Nick All Star Brawl combat n movement cuz you can actually control everything from movement to attacking n not wait for shitty clunky hitstun, or endlag, or some dumb shit to end!
this is just my hot take but Smash bros n many other platform fighters have terribly ass music. Playstation All Stars is literally thy only platform imo with the best soundtrack
I agree I played smash since 64 ultimate is very frustrating it feels like you're fighting the game every time I have almost 2,000 hours on it and it still feels clunky and things don't make sense at all in this game
Stolen video