As the original owner and founder of Titus titanium Cycles I found your article to be pretty accurate. The the only other item you missed was the fatigue life of titanium is much higher than that of steel or aluminum. We warrantied our bicycles for life to the original owner when the aluminum frames were warrantied for one year and the steel frames for 3 years. We never had a failed titanium frame come back to us be due to fatigue. Now in a strange twist of fate, I find myself currently producing carbon fiber aircraft parts . Go figure . Good job on the article.
I bought a Merlin with lifetime warranty in 1990. I averaged 7000 miles per year through 2003 and had to replace the frame three times under warranty. Each of the first three frames developed cracks at or above the seat tube to bottom bracket weld after between 12000 and 35000 miles. I still have frame #4 but it only gets about 50 miles per week now.
Fred Last you can-he just described why there’s lifelong warranty. Myself I have two identical Titanium frames since 2003-one for racing,one as a randonneur. As steel frames loose stiffness over time,Titanium stays the same-plus these frames are quite comfortable to ride over cobblestones/bad roads. I’ve ridden the best steel frames throughout my racing career,but nothing gets close to Ti 3A2.5Va
Fatigue is much too complicated for generalized claims of one material always being better than another. Fatigue almost always initiates at points of stress concentration like notches, bends, and welds. That's why polishing a part can dramatically increase its fatigue life. Some metals (like steel) will exhibit an endurance limit where stresses below that level never lead to fatigue. I am not aware of any aluminum alloys having an endurance limit. While that's one reason people think of aluminum as having poor fatigue life, it's also because to get aluminum to the strengths needed for a bike frame mean pushing the material to its limit, which makes it less ductile, less tough (i.e., the energy absorbed to fracture), and the fracture toughness goes way down. That means the critical crack size--the size of flaw that will lead to a catastrophic failure--is small. Meanwhile, cromoly steels will still be ductile & have high fracture toughness at strengths used in frames such that fatigue cracks grow slowly and their critical flaw size is larger--in many cases, you can ride for a long time with visible cracks. Ti alloys used in bikes (3/2.5 & 6/4) are made up of two phases (i.e., different crystal structures) called alpha & beta. The beta phase is much stronger, and fatigue cracks propagate through the alpha phase and have to work their way around the beta phases. That makes crack propagation slow & tends to give ti a good fatigue life. But considering that in fabricated assemblies, fatigue almost always occurs at the welds, the properties of the base material are much less important. Thus, _how_ welds are made can dominate how long a bike lasts. Preparation, filler material, preheat/postheat treatment, full penetration & complete fill of welds, elimination of precipitates, good grain structures (no growth of grains, no dendritic structures, etc.), and so on, matter. A very high quality aluminum weld can certainly last longer than a crappy steel or titanium weld. It is entirely possible that since any shop can weld steel but only premium suppliers can weld ti, that quality drives fatigue resistance of bicycles more than material. In other words, ti bikes might last longer because their welds are only performed by experts who do a good job controlling all critical parameters while many steel/aluminum bikes are welded by low cost suppliers with less expertise & fewer quality controls.
I am able to walk, and ride my bikes because of Titanium, I had a bad accident and my pelvis was broken into multiple pieces, on arrival at the hospital and after xrays ,i was told it was unlikely i would ever walk again. But a world renown pelvic specialist heard of my case and took it on(it was filmed and used for his North American lecture tour), the operation lasted 27 hrs and my pelvis is held together by several specially shaped plates and 20 plus screws(all Titanium), My Xrays looks like they are from Steve Austin the bionic man, they didn't stitch me up they stapled me, it was horrific at the time. Although I'm OK now I ride an Ebike because it can only take so much pressure. Obviously I love Titanium and when i can afford it I intend to get a titanium frame and build a super ebike around it. Titanium is my favourite metal for obvious reasons.
I have to ask, since you gave the Steve Austin reference. Was the medical bill more than $6 million dollars? Seriously. I’m truly glad you were taken care of and truly given a second life by the use of Titanium implants and modern medical surgical techniques.
@@iamrocketray I'm glad you're ok now sir. But i think you have to switch to adamantium or vibranium alloys to even make you better than you are today. Just kidding. Wish you luck on your journeys
@@rogermccaslin6750 My favorite metal is stiffanuim. Hookers like it and it can get me free beer occasionally, but definitely can't buy neither gold nor titanium with it.
Si, as a materials scientist and engineer working in the aerospace industry, I have to commend you on the accuracy and the level of details with which you present this stuff. It's super refreshing to see materials properties described as they are and not mixed together in nonsensical ways, as usual.
How can you be an engineer and commend GCN for their accuracy when Si doesn't know the difference between a unit and an assigned value? Titanium doesn't "have a GPa of 110"; titanium's Young's modulus *is* 110 *GPa* . The same happened with the the yield strengths. This is like saying "my Ferrari has a bhp of 597" and just sounds so utterly horrific to any engineer!
Titanium bikes are why I chose to study materials science at university. 15 years later and I can now afford to watch a video about them on my phone. No regrets.
Ryan Ford Graphene is just an additive to carbon at the moment, you can't really make bikes out of it. Although there are those Vittoria tires and wheels that use it. Kind of interesting to me that Vittoria seems to be the only major player that's using the stuff. Would be cool to see it mentioned in that kind of a roundup, though. Especially if it picks up any momentum.
I've had a Lynskey Ti bike for about 5 years and as Simon indicated it's extremely durable and immune to the effects of oxidation and the elements. I can't make any whacky fan-boy claims as to its ride comfort in comparison to other materials (that's really a function of your tires) but I do feel safer knowing that my frame won't crack due to stress as I've experienced on carbon bikes (and I'm not a big person). For me the bottom line on Ti is that the frame will outlast me, it's safe, it's seriously lighter than my steel bike, it always looks great in its raw, unfinished state and is totally repairable if it does get damaged. I'm not a missionary of titanium but if you decide to go this route there are no downsides and you can pass it along to the next cycling generation in your family.
Here’s an ironic fact: during the Cold War, the Soviet Union had the largest stock of titanium so the United States secretly purchased its titanium for the SR-71 from the USSR... they unknowingly helped America build the planes that spied on them!
The US secretly funded the Bolshevik Revolution in 1916-17 given it is a matter of fact, verified in State Department archives, that President Wilson gave Trotsky a US passport to finish the regime change, sorry, revolution in Russia. The Cold war was a manufactured propagandist lie designed and carried out by Communists. Source - Read Antony Sutton's Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution.
Bearable Pain Geeze. Amazingly, I found another person who has actually read Anthony Sutton’s books. On a bike channel...that should be a materials science course required viewing in today’s educational environment. Anthony Sutton got a little too “out of of bounds” for the Hoover Institute so they “fired” him. And No. I had to dig up his books on my own. Public Schools failed to inform me about virtually all of his writings. Shocking, isn’t it.
@@msmeyersmd8 - We are the unwitting Communists. Communists have run the show since 1913 and they have covered it up until the watershed year of 2006 and no I am not on their side. They murder children and call it civil war - they call it revolution when it's Christian, Russian Orthodox, Armenian or Cambodian genocide. The scum Bankers run the show but you know that. I was paid a visit of sorts by a pedigreed person related to two Presidents - both traitor scum Presidents - because of my reading list. That scene in Seven where the FBI monitors people reading lists - it's true - I bought one too many books and read them... I was told after a three hour interview of sorts not to start a group so if asked YOU ARE NOT IN A GROUP, you never met me... Maybe someday we can talk about the traitors that destroyed our country - after we won it back of course...
After a few years of racing on a carbon bike, I made the switch this year to a custom titanium bike and I can safely say I am delighted! The feel on the road is pretty similar to what I had with my carbon bike with maybe a boost in stiffness and a clear boost in comfort. And yes indeed, beauty is subjective, but I just love the look of my new bike, the artisan managed to make seemingly seamless welds and the magnificent paint job just make it look so slick!
titanium.The Queen of bumpy roads or cobblestones. Nothing to compare with,always stays in the same stiffness and doesn’t rust or oxydize and has that special shiny glance to it
Has to be one of the best deliveries I have encountered. Wish you had presented MOST of my mechanical engineering courses, I would have learned, not have left college wondering if I actually learned something! VERY GOOD!
I bought a Litespeed Catylst back in 1994 tricked out with 8 speed Dura Ace and a set of Mavic GEL 280 32 spoke tubular wheels! Very lite bike in that era about 18lbs./8.064k I turned it into a gravel bike, the Dura Ace brakes back then are wider they accept up to 30mm tyres! Its always a fun bike to ride and still going strong after 24yrs. of riding!
I bought a catalyst too and outfitted it with 10spd dura ace and custom 32spoke wheels on dura ace hubs.......it is an awesome bike and not one of my bikes I would be willing to part with.......I would say it's my go to bike but I just got a derosa.....in slx .....nice to hear someone else speak highly of the catalyst. .......in am working on getting tubular wheels for it too
I had a custom ti frame built back in 1994 and built it with Campy Record 8 speed. Still all these years later, it is my favorite bike and has Campy 10 speed.. so maybe it needs another upgrade. Or just maybe down the road, I need another custom ti.
My profile pic is my Litespeed T1 and I absolutely love it. It has a 6Al top tube, but all the rest is 3Al and feels buttery smooth, especially with the Campagnolo Chorus groupset, and Bullet 50s (steel bearings). I bought the groupset off Wiggle, then assembled it myself. The frame weighed in at 980g before anything was put on it. I had a Specialized Tarmac which was a really nice carbon bike, but there is just something I cant pin down with titanium. Maybe it is because I dont have to worry about corrosion. Maybe it is because titanium virtually eliminates road buzz. Maybe it is because not many people have titanium bikes near me. Maybe it is because I dont have to worry about pretty paint. I accidentally leaned my bike against the sharp corner of a cement pillar and it slid along it a little and I could hear the grinding. At first I was worried, but then I just laughed because I can take a green Brillo pad and make it shiny in a few minutes. Go on. Give titanium a try. You'll thank me later, I promise.
I have a ti Kona King Kahuna (2000). The parts have changed numerous times, but the frame is still going strong. It's been ridden all over the western US (mostly the pnw) and on many DH courses and has never failed me. It's by far my favorite bike. It has a snappy ride quality, but is not harsh at all. If I had to pick just one bike to keep, that would be it.
1:45 The video states: "Both [3/2.5 and 6/4] have very high Young's Modulus." As a general rule, modulus is unchanged from minor alloying, so pure ti, 3/2.5, and 6/4 will all have about equal modulus. Ti has a modulus a bit over half of steel, so I wouldn't say it's "very high." It's definitely stiffer than aluminum, wood, plastics, etc., but it is far less stiff than steel or carbon.
Thankfully he rejected the age-old tradition of early Scientists naming their discoveries after themselves. Medical science is (or was) positively lousy with it. Titanium is badass. Gregorium or Williamium? Not so much.
@@taitjones6310 I rode a 853 steel bike for years. Put the wheelset on a lightweight alloy bike and literally had to stand up on the bike the majority of the ride so harsh was the frame! Steel had spoiled me!
@Bernd DasBrot Because there are not many options for other materials in their price range. In the late 90's you could ride similarly equipped steel and aluminium bikes back to back, it was clear steel rode better but marketing pushed the weight savings of aluminum.
A cycling buddy of mine was out on training run on his pride and joy carbon bike.:..hit a lot hole and frame cracked up...he fell off and broke his neck ...was paralised from neck down..:..survived for six months then died.....carbon frames should be xrayed periodically for cracks ....but who does that?....professionals get new bikes regularly so bikes are new for them ..ordinary people keep their carbons awhile...:i sold my carbon bike after my buddies accident .:.on alloy bike now ....i will never ride carbon again....remember this story folks....if you ride carbon frame regular check for cracks and if possible get it xrayed. Remember carbon is only plastic glue and fibers..
I have an aluminum, a carbon and a Ti bike. They are all good,but the Ti is my favourite. There is something, that I can't actually describe, in the ride quality that feels sleeker.
I got a new titanium bike this year because I love the corrosion resistance, raw finish, fatigue limit properties, and ride quality. I think Reynolds 953 Stainless Steel tubing can be equally good, though. Modern metallurgy and welding practice is phenomenal regardless of the metal. A well-built aluminum, stainless steel or titanium bicycle from this year can, if cared for, be handed down to your grandchildren.
I bought a Ti roadbike last year. Got an Ti mtb a few weeks back. And when the time comes to replace my cyclocross bike, it'll be Ti too. Dont care if its the best or not, i just really love it
You should now do a bit on Magnesium frames. 60% lighter than aluminum but as strong as carbon fiber. You can use the Pinarello Dogma AK-61 frame as an example (2007 frame, which won the TDF by the way).
Love my Lynskey Ti bike. Best ride quality of any bike I've owned. Last week I had the opportunity to tour Roark Cycles facility (custom Ti frame builder). Very cool process.
@@K777John my fibia and tibia are titanium my body doesn't like it all that much. No flex makes for a rigid leg. I suppose it's better than not having a leg 😅
I actually AM a hunchback, and even a seatpost slammed al the way down is painful for me to ride if there's drop bars. That setup would be physically impossible for me to even sit on.
I've got Al, carbon, steel, combos of the above and an old Ti Merckx. The Merckx get 90+% of the ride time. Hard to explain but it does everything very well and looks really cool. Plus zero worries.
Just as all carbon bikes are not the same, Ti bikes depend on the proper alloy in the right place, and expert manipulation of the tubes. I test-rode several Ti bikes in the early 2000's, and all felt dead until I tried a Litespeed Ultimate, with a mix of 6/4 and 3/2.5. 17 years later, and it's as lively as ever. Maybe the basic straight-gauge tubes have improved since then, but definitely try before you jump on a 'budget' Ti bike. Two years ago I rebuilt it with all new Super Record components, and built a twin carbon Litespeed (C1R) with the same components, wheels and geometry, so I'm able to compare apples to apples between the best carbon and the best Ti. While they feel quite different, I can't decide which I like better... but if I had to choose just one bike to keep it would be Ti. I view the carbon one as race-only, and only for TT and hilly road races at that, because it's lighter and more aero. For crits I'll grab the Ti bike 10 out of 10 times for its toughness. One crit crash and the carbon bike could be destroyed by a Ti bike. What's not mentioned in the GCN video is the fatigue life of Ti alloys. They make far superior springs than spring-steel due to lower hysteresis and much longer fatigue life. This flexing and returning nearly all of the spring energy is what gives Ti its life-long lively feel, similar to a good brand new steel bike, without getting whipped out in a couple years (or decades!) as steel does.
Very nicely done, sir! Great pacing and cadence, great data presentation and relating it to practical matters, and a very positive overall demeanor. Bravo, mate!
My No 22 rides like nothing else. Highly recommend giving ti a try if you haven’t yet. Simon is right about that undeniable ride feel separate from steel and carbon
I took a quick spin on a titanium bike for the first time the other day, and I was surprised how pronounced that feel actually was. I was kinda expecting it to be a slight difference, but it was very distinctive.
placebo effect. Lets see you feel all these perceived differences if the bike is disguised. FYI, such tests have been conducted with a number of top pros and endurance riders. Verdict, they could not distinguish one frame material from the other any better than random guessing given similar components set up.
I bought my De Rosa Titanio back in 1995 complete with Campy Record Gruppo, Campy Shamal wheel, K-EMS Composite fork, Selle Turbo saddle and other … those were exotic pieces in ‘95 … and today still intact and smooth as a silk … that’s what you get from titanium frame, never ending satisfaction and last …
i'd love to submerge that frame in a bathtub with water and baking soda, and run a 30V DC Current through it to anodise it to a stunning blue.. or 60 V DC to make it Gold... :) Anodising Titanium is really easy, and recently i saw a video of an American bike builder that makes titanium frames, and the anodise their brand name on the frames.. Stunning!
DosWheelsBetter, I'm a terrible welder but lately I've been milling Ti. What a learning curve that was. I also learned of you snap a hss drill in Ti, you can remove it with ferric chloride and not harm the Ti.
I have a 6/4 Litespeed a 3/2.5 Merlinand a Serotta Legend Ti. The first is very aggressive while the second and third are very smooth. The daily drivers are a Parlee Z3 and two Serottas, an Ottrott and a Meivici. I love them all!
I read about this company which made a berylium bike, Berylium doesn’t extrude so the tubes had to be made by rolling a sheet into a tube. I think welding was a problem, it was very light - but poisonous.
solid & useful video, guys. namely distinguishing between the 2 types of titanium, and also pointing out many of its differences against Al and Fe. thanks.
I ride a 15-year-old Serrotta ti bike. I love it. Tried to convince myself I needed a new bike, but just upgraded components. The most remarkable feature is that it loves to go downhill fast. Without trying, I just roll past friends.
@@AirCrash1 Maybe he just meant that it was "interesting". And I'm sure you know all about his knowledge of science (or anything else, for that matter).
I have a Seven Axiom SL. I am 54 years old and it is without a doubt the best thing I ever purchased for myself. Looking at it fills me with joy. Riding it? I don't have words. Great video.
I’m considering a titanium gravel bike for my next bike with a set of road and off road wheels. Titanium is virtually indestructible and doesn’t need to be painted because it won’t corrode. If it gets scratched just polish it. If you travel a lot it’s more resistant to baggage handlers! I believe it to be a true life time bike!
I had a Ti gravel bike built for my around the world bike tour and had a set of S&S couplers installed when it was built. Best decision ever. It rips on the road with some slightly narrow tires, but takes everything you can throw at it on gravel or with a couple fully loaded ortlieb packs on the back. A Ti gravel bike with couplers is the true do it all, take it anywhere bike.
I've been making heading (forging) dies for titanium fasteners for over 30 years and never knew so much about 6AL4V as I learned watching this video. Very concise. Thanks for making this vid.
I'm hoping you know what GPa and MPa stand for. Using terms like Young's Modulus suggests you do. I would prefer you used the actual terms rather than the units for them. I don't have a kg or cm.
This professor should better get back to uni though! MPa and GPa are units and not values. You don't say "My maximum power output is high: it's a Watt of 500" just as you don't say "Titanium's yield strength is a MPa of 1000".
What about 3D-printed Titanium? On that note. A visit to Bastion Cycles in Australia should be perfect for GCN Tech! Combine it with some Tour Down Under content ^_^ Love the video btw! Keep up the good work!
Anders Øksendal Larsen bastion are copies of another lugged frame and they come apart. Lugged frames look good but a bit yesterday imo. I'd take a Baum.or a Liynksey, etc.
glenny oc Calling Bastion "a copy" is a bit harsh. And I believe the bonding issue was fixed a good while ago. Inspired by other lugged bikes maybe, but have you ridden one? Currently I have a Van Nicholas Boreas which I love, and I'm fortunate enough to own a Bastion. The rides are totally different and I must say the Bastion is the best thing I've ever tried :-D
Ive ridden a couple of other branbs over the years and Kbedfords road frame was one that i really liked. I'm sure Bastion fixed up the glue problem. I'm sure they are fine now. Nothing ground breaking mind you so many are doing it now.
Excellent video. I chose to watch this video because I’m in the process of purchasing a light speed titanium bike on craigslist. Your video was extremely informative. It gave me the basic knowledge to know that I’m making a sound purchase.
@@gummybear41283 because my Seven was designed for me the ride quality is right where I want it to be. The carbon bike that I use to own handled extremely well, but didn't have the ride quality I was looking for.
My Merlin titanium bike is going to outlast me,, I crashed the carbon colnago C60 and broke,,,what a waist of money...my Cannondale cadd 12 broke behind the bottom bracket,,, but my schwinn paramount and the Merlin just keeps going and going and going.. I guess the best bike is the one that you ride everyday...go titanium ,,, you won't be disappointed...
Thank you for sharing the video. Any chance of explaining the various tube butting and welding (or brazing methods) to allow for more informed future purchases?
try habcycles.com. got a custom ti carver, then a stock habanero ti. i dont know why spend ghe extra dough on custom u less you really really want a lower bb and s&s on it
Good stuff-maybe you need a video to cover all the materials science basics. Stress, strain, E, ultimate tensile stress,yield, fatigue, factors of safety.
Simon... why why why... My Litespeed Teramo has been under the stairs for 5 years with a cracked seatstay... time to fix my favourite bike back to roadworthy condition. Titanium FTW.
I bought a "new" Litespeed years ago from the former PreOwnedBikes (which was like American Bicycle Group's certified refurb bikes). Cracked mine at the BB shell. They refused to warranty. Also bought a Tomac Taos at the same time, which was a great hardtail. Do a Google search of ABG titanium frames from that era and later on Lynskey frames...cracking seems pretty common with titanium.
Pretty much everything white has been dyed with titanium oxide. Not just paper as mentioned but plastics, paint etc. The problem is that enormous amounts of energy are required to turn titanium oxide into titanium so it will never be cheap. Aluminium is similar in that it only occurs naturally as bauxite but it is cheaper, less energy intensive to process.
Hi, we have a couple of bikes on our yacht, but the gears and chain rust. Would titanium be the answer and if so could you recommend some parts. The bikes are hybrid and are designed more for comfort than anything
I doubt you can get titanium chains..... Your best bet is good lubrication, good maintenance and cleaning of the vulnerable parts, and if possible, keep the bikes under covers when not in use, to reduce exposure to salt water spray and mist.
Simon Kinsella I think you may be correct. We keep it well lubricated with silicone spray. We can’t use wd40 because we live in Abu Dhabi. We do keep them in the stem cabin but fear they is a worse place for them
I picked up a 2018 Ti Century Pro by Moto -is a truly a great ride. Put about 1,000 miles on it so far this Spring. Hard to get one though, they sell out fast and of course you need to do some simple assembly. Can't beat the factory direct prices. I can't compare to other custom Ti but the ride is better than other mainstream bikes I've ridden over the years (riding since the 1970's). The weight is close to a high quality aluminum build, it's about 21 lbs with the heavy wheel set is comes with..
@@HelloHello-hk4sx some noob doesn't know there's serious bamboo frames out there but had to be insulting. Bamboo is popular with tandems so it must be strong.
What about Ti skewers? I've read lots of pros and cons about this. It seems like an inexpensive way to knock 100 grams off the weight of the bike, but cro-mo steel seems much stiffer and safer. What's the best choice, Ti or steel skewers?
I've been using super light TI skewers for the last 1.5 years. No problems at all. Large Lynskey R360, 15.8 lb build. Moderately stiff with a silk smooth ride
My Ti Merlin Magia was built in about 2000. I'm at least the 3rd owner (had it 10 years). It has Shimano TL 24s and a Sram Force / Red groups (when is it going to get some love on the Tech show - photos sent weeks ago :-). Despite owning an S Works Roubaix with DA DI2, the Merlin is still my best bike. If only I could retro-fit it with discs. Also, fun fact: Titanium has a melting point of 1670 degrees C, so if your house burns down (and so long as the roof doesn't fall on it), your frame will be fine.
I have the idea to build the core of a table tennis paddle in titanium , which grade/thickness would you suggest ? Is it a good idea in the first place ? Helpfull video in any case , thanks.
As a mechanical engineer it is funny to listen to these guys describe this stuff. GPa is a unit not a spec. The way he described the "GPa" would be like describing someone's cm as 182 instead of describing the height as 182 cm. I guess you can figure it out when there is only one parameter being discussed. But if you just said the bikes cm is 47 then how would you know which measurement he is referring to.
i have no idea WTF you are saying. It sounds like blablabla to me. To be fair I didn't listen to his bullshit as well. I was admiring Enigma bike instead.
Savage Poop, I think you need to explain some more, and with some reverence to modern grammar. It's so hilarious when someone calls another person an idiot when they're actually being an idiot themselves. I'm sure this only gets better, so keep it coming.
Dave Hughes drive feel is probably the most important part. Plus, youre finding the middle ground on all the other main materials. Lighter than steel, more comfortable than aluminum, tougher than carbon, and coorosion resistant. Might not be worth it to everyone, but I'd consider it for my next bike.
Bob Lim I have a titanium XC hardtail and I've never been able to explain the feel of riding it until now. The description is really appropriate. It's much more forgiving than an aluminium frame, and when you're riding a hardtail that's quite important.
Ti is quite a bit heavier than aluminum, (in between, but closer to steel than aluminum), and stronger than steel used on bicycles. It is because of it's strength that bike tubes can be made thinner than steel and much thinner than aluminum. Surprisingly, high end bicycle frames made from those different materials almost weigh the same.
I have a 1999 Airborne Lucky Strike. I put it though off-road hell for a while, and now - 20+ years later - I still use it as my do-everything/commuting cycle. It still looks and feels fantastic, and I wouldn’t be shocked it it outlives me. 😅 (Great vid!)
Lance Armstrong used a Titanium aerodynamic bike made by litespeed to win a TT in the 90s. It was re-painted to look like a Trek but it was a Litespeed.
Titanium is very springy and has a long fatigue life. It's the material of choice for soft-tail frames because it can handle the repeated flexing. That springiness is what gives it such great ride qualities. It really does feel like riding a living beast that wants to run.
My Serotta Concourse CS ti bike has always been a great smooth ride! My very first road bike was a low end Cannondale aluminum, so much rougher on the road.
Aluminium is best, stronger than Carbon. Carbon is ok for a road bike as not much stress going on but definitely Aluminium for Mountain, Endura or XC bikes.
Ambrose Goode Explain how that makes it better than Ti as well. Are you saying that Ti can't handle stress as well as Al or carbon? Pretty big assumption that carbon fiber frames can't handle stress and strain as well as Al.
Carbon has a higher tensile strength to steel let alone aluminium but surface strength sucks . Also carbon is strong only one direction hence why frames have different layers in different directions to accommodate different stress levels .
Aluminum is not stronger then good quality carbon. Check Santa Cruz vid. They break both aluminum and CF rear triangle on special stand . CF was actually almost 25% or 30% more difficult to break. Real difference is where aluminum bends carbon cracks. Personally I see only aesthetic and price difference between aluminum and CF today. Weight difference is 200-300 gram. Doesn't change anything for me.
My John Tomac Design Series Raleigh titanium mtb is still going strong as it enters its 28th season. Original Deore components. One of the best purchases I've ever made.
I have three carbon bikes: an Alan from 1988, an ICE from 1998 and a Neuvation from 2011. The evolution has been mostly in compliance without sacrificing power stiffness, secondary to monocoque construction with infinitely variable tube material, shape and thickness. This suits me in my old age in terms of comfort. Can a Ti frame with fixed radius and thickness tubes really match that?
Check out Dean bikes! Currently racing for Athlete Octane racing team in Arizona. Riding a a devo geometry and its incredible! Will be released to the public soon!
There are many A-10 Warthog pilots that are thankful for the properties of the titanium “bathtub” that they sit in during flight. Informative video, I look forward to hearing your impressions of titanium after you spend some more time on one.
My straight gauge Tom Kellogg designed Merlin is more than 30 years old. It's a 1992 the same year Greg LeMond used the prototype Merlin Extra Light butted friame in the Tour de France.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
What's the coolest frame material?
Wood
Biscuits
icecubes
Unequivocally speaking the coolest frame material would be "Metalic Hydrogen".
One that has been in the cold the longest?
As the original owner and founder of Titus titanium Cycles I found your article to be pretty accurate. The the only other item you missed was the fatigue life of titanium is much higher than that of steel or aluminum. We warrantied our bicycles for life to the original owner when the aluminum frames were warrantied for one year and the steel frames for 3 years. We never had a failed titanium frame come back to us be due to fatigue. Now in a strange twist of fate, I find myself currently producing carbon fiber aircraft parts . Go figure . Good job on the article.
I bought a Merlin with lifetime warranty in 1990. I averaged 7000 miles per year through 2003 and had to replace the frame three times under warranty. Each of the first three frames developed cracks at or above the seat tube to bottom bracket weld after between 12000 and 35000 miles. I still have frame #4 but it only gets about 50 miles per week now.
@@oldcyclist5880 you can't beat a steel frame for durability
Fred Last you can-he just described why there’s lifelong warranty.
Myself I have two identical Titanium frames since 2003-one for racing,one as a randonneur.
As steel frames loose stiffness over time,Titanium stays the same-plus these frames are quite comfortable to ride over cobblestones/bad roads.
I’ve ridden the best steel frames throughout my racing career,but nothing gets close to Ti 3A2.5Va
Nice job..
Fatigue is much too complicated for generalized claims of one material always being better than another.
Fatigue almost always initiates at points of stress concentration like notches, bends, and welds. That's why polishing a part can dramatically increase its fatigue life.
Some metals (like steel) will exhibit an endurance limit where stresses below that level never lead to fatigue. I am not aware of any aluminum alloys having an endurance limit. While that's one reason people think of aluminum as having poor fatigue life, it's also because to get aluminum to the strengths needed for a bike frame mean pushing the material to its limit, which makes it less ductile, less tough (i.e., the energy absorbed to fracture), and the fracture toughness goes way down. That means the critical crack size--the size of flaw that will lead to a catastrophic failure--is small. Meanwhile, cromoly steels will still be ductile & have high fracture toughness at strengths used in frames such that fatigue cracks grow slowly and their critical flaw size is larger--in many cases, you can ride for a long time with visible cracks. Ti alloys used in bikes (3/2.5 & 6/4) are made up of two phases (i.e., different crystal structures) called alpha & beta. The beta phase is much stronger, and fatigue cracks propagate through the alpha phase and have to work their way around the beta phases. That makes crack propagation slow & tends to give ti a good fatigue life.
But considering that in fabricated assemblies, fatigue almost always occurs at the welds, the properties of the base material are much less important. Thus, _how_ welds are made can dominate how long a bike lasts. Preparation, filler material, preheat/postheat treatment, full penetration & complete fill of welds, elimination of precipitates, good grain structures (no growth of grains, no dendritic structures, etc.), and so on, matter. A very high quality aluminum weld can certainly last longer than a crappy steel or titanium weld.
It is entirely possible that since any shop can weld steel but only premium suppliers can weld ti, that quality drives fatigue resistance of bicycles more than material. In other words, ti bikes might last longer because their welds are only performed by experts who do a good job controlling all critical parameters while many steel/aluminum bikes are welded by low cost suppliers with less expertise & fewer quality controls.
I am able to walk, and ride my bikes because of Titanium, I had a bad accident and my pelvis was broken into multiple pieces, on arrival at the hospital and after xrays ,i was told it was unlikely i would ever walk again. But a world renown pelvic specialist heard of my case and took it on(it was filmed and used for his North American lecture tour), the operation lasted 27 hrs and my pelvis is held together by several specially shaped plates and 20 plus screws(all Titanium), My Xrays looks like they are from Steve Austin the bionic man, they didn't stitch me up they stapled me, it was horrific at the time. Although I'm OK now I ride an Ebike because it can only take so much pressure. Obviously I love Titanium and when i can afford it I intend to get a titanium frame and build a super ebike around it. Titanium is my favourite metal for obvious reasons.
I have to ask, since you gave the Steve Austin reference. Was the medical bill more than $6 million dollars? Seriously. I’m truly glad you were taken care of and truly given a second life by the use of Titanium implants and modern medical surgical techniques.
@@msmeyersmd8 Hiya, Fortunately for me I live in the UK where all medical treatment is FREE thanks to our excellent NHS.
@@iamrocketray
I'm glad you're ok now sir. But i think you have to switch to adamantium or vibranium alloys to even make you better than you are today. Just kidding. Wish you luck on your journeys
You know, if your favorite metal was gold, and you had a bunch, you could buy some titanium. And a beer. And a hooker.😁
@@rogermccaslin6750
My favorite metal is stiffanuim. Hookers like it and it can get me free beer occasionally, but definitely can't buy neither gold nor titanium with it.
Si, as a materials scientist and engineer working in the aerospace industry, I have to commend you on the accuracy and the level of details with which you present this stuff. It's super refreshing to see materials properties described as they are and not mixed together in nonsensical ways, as usual.
Thanks placidesulfurik
How can you be an engineer and commend GCN for their accuracy when Si doesn't know the difference between a unit and an assigned value?
Titanium doesn't "have a GPa of 110"; titanium's Young's modulus *is* 110 *GPa* . The same happened with the the yield strengths. This is like saying "my Ferrari has a bhp of 597" and just sounds so utterly horrific to any engineer!
riemjann1 Because I'm not as good an engineer as you are
Si, you did a really good job - i'm a metallurgical engineer and you hit all the major points with wonderful clarity
riemjann1, are you the the type that trims their lawn with Scissors because the lawn mower lacks your level of precision?
Titanium bikes are why I chose to study materials science at university. 15 years later and I can now afford to watch a video about them on my phone. No regrets.
These kind of comments prove why YT need a haha react button 😂
More titanium content please. One mega Steel, aluminum, carbon and titanium episode would be great.
John Rodgers and graphene
Thanks John for the suggestion!
Ryan Ford Graphene is just an additive to carbon at the moment, you can't really make bikes out of it. Although there are those Vittoria tires and wheels that use it. Kind of interesting to me that Vittoria seems to be the only major player that's using the stuff.
Would be cool to see it mentioned in that kind of a roundup, though. Especially if it picks up any momentum.
teuast I think in the future it could be a possibility that bikes are made from it but at the moment its only really wheels as you mentioned
I've had a Lynskey Ti bike for about 5 years and as Simon indicated it's extremely durable and immune to the effects of oxidation and the elements. I can't make any whacky fan-boy claims as to its ride comfort in comparison to other materials (that's really a function of your tires) but I do feel safer knowing that my frame won't crack due to stress as I've experienced on carbon bikes (and I'm not a big person). For me the bottom line on Ti is that the frame will outlast me, it's safe, it's seriously lighter than my steel bike, it always looks great in its raw, unfinished state and is totally repairable if it does get damaged. I'm not a missionary of titanium but if you decide to go this route there are no downsides and you can pass it along to the next cycling generation in your family.
Here’s an ironic fact: during the Cold War, the Soviet Union had the largest stock of titanium so the United States secretly purchased its titanium for the SR-71 from the USSR... they unknowingly helped America build the planes that spied on them!
The US secretly funded the Bolshevik Revolution in 1916-17 given it is a matter of fact, verified in State Department archives, that President Wilson gave Trotsky a US passport to finish the regime change, sorry, revolution in Russia. The Cold war was a manufactured propagandist lie designed and carried out by Communists. Source - Read Antony Sutton's Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution.
Bearable Pain Geeze. Amazingly, I found another person who has actually read Anthony Sutton’s books. On a bike channel...that should be a materials science course required viewing in today’s educational environment. Anthony Sutton got a little too “out of of bounds” for the Hoover Institute so they “fired” him. And No. I had to dig up his books on my own. Public Schools failed to inform me about virtually all of his writings. Shocking, isn’t it.
@@msmeyersmd8 - We are the unwitting Communists. Communists have run the show since 1913 and they have covered it up until the watershed year of 2006 and no I am not on their side. They murder children and call it civil war - they call it revolution when it's Christian, Russian Orthodox, Armenian or Cambodian genocide. The scum Bankers run the show but you know that. I was paid a visit of sorts by a pedigreed person related to two Presidents - both traitor scum Presidents - because of my reading list. That scene in Seven where the FBI monitors people reading lists - it's true - I bought one too many books and read them... I was told after a three hour interview of sorts not to start a group so if asked YOU ARE NOT IN A GROUP, you never met me... Maybe someday we can talk about the traitors that destroyed our country - after we won it back of course...
That news was old 20 year ago. Ever hear of a show called Wings on the Discovery Channel?
Bearable Pain , Trotsky was a nobody at that time, it was the Germans armoured train that contained Lenin that started it ! Dip stick !!
After a few years of racing on a carbon bike, I made the switch this year to a custom titanium bike and I can safely say I am delighted! The feel on the road is pretty similar to what I had with my carbon bike with maybe a boost in stiffness and a clear boost in comfort. And yes indeed, beauty is subjective, but I just love the look of my new bike, the artisan managed to make seemingly seamless welds and the magnificent paint job just make it look so slick!
titanium.The Queen of bumpy roads or cobblestones.
Nothing to compare with,always stays in the same stiffness and doesn’t rust or oxydize and has that
special shiny glance to it
Has to be one of the best deliveries I have encountered. Wish you had presented MOST of my mechanical engineering courses, I would have learned, not have left college wondering if I actually learned something! VERY GOOD!
I bought a Litespeed Catylst back in 1994 tricked out with 8 speed Dura Ace and a set of Mavic GEL 280 32 spoke tubular wheels! Very lite bike in that era about 18lbs./8.064k I turned it into a gravel bike, the Dura Ace brakes back then are wider they accept up to 30mm tyres! Its always a fun bike to ride and still going strong after 24yrs. of riding!
I bought a catalyst too and outfitted it with 10spd dura ace and custom 32spoke wheels on dura ace hubs.......it is an awesome bike and not one of my bikes I would be willing to part with.......I would say it's my go to bike but I just got a derosa.....in slx .....nice to hear someone else speak highly of the catalyst. .......in am working on getting tubular wheels for it too
I had a custom ti frame built back in 1994 and built it with Campy Record 8 speed. Still all these years later, it is my favorite bike and has Campy 10 speed.. so maybe it needs another upgrade. Or just maybe down the road, I need another custom ti.
My profile pic is my Litespeed T1 and I absolutely love it. It has a 6Al top tube, but all the rest is 3Al and feels buttery smooth, especially with the Campagnolo Chorus groupset, and Bullet 50s (steel bearings). I bought the groupset off Wiggle, then assembled it myself. The frame weighed in at 980g before anything was put on it. I had a Specialized Tarmac which was a really nice carbon bike, but there is just something I cant pin down with titanium. Maybe it is because I dont have to worry about corrosion. Maybe it is because titanium virtually eliminates road buzz. Maybe it is because not many people have titanium bikes near me. Maybe it is because I dont have to worry about pretty paint. I accidentally leaned my bike against the sharp corner of a cement pillar and it slid along it a little and I could hear the grinding. At first I was worried, but then I just laughed because I can take a green Brillo pad and make it shiny in a few minutes.
Go on. Give titanium a try. You'll thank me later, I promise.
I have a ti Kona King Kahuna (2000). The parts have changed numerous times, but the frame is still going strong. It's been ridden all over the western US (mostly the pnw) and on many DH courses and has never failed me. It's by far my favorite bike. It has a snappy ride quality, but is not harsh at all. If I had to pick just one bike to keep, that would be it.
Hey, this is one of the greatest video about it ! Short but complex.. PLEASE add more about Titanium and Carbon Fibre bike/component productions!!
Glad you enjoyed it Sergei
1:45 The video states: "Both [3/2.5 and 6/4] have very high Young's Modulus."
As a general rule, modulus is unchanged from minor alloying, so pure ti, 3/2.5, and 6/4 will all have about equal modulus. Ti has a modulus a bit over half of steel, so I wouldn't say it's "very high." It's definitely stiffer than aluminum, wood, plastics, etc., but it is far less stiff than steel or carbon.
Finally something about the frame that really last: Titanium.
Please cover more information about it.
Titanium was discovered in Cornwall by William Gregor in 1791, and was named after the Titans of Greek mythology.
Thankfully he rejected the age-old tradition of early Scientists naming their discoveries after themselves. Medical science is (or was) positively lousy with it.
Titanium is badass. Gregorium or Williamium? Not so much.
Yeah, but Cornwallium would have been awesome.
He was a shepherd, but also a geologist...
You sound very smart.
Thanks for that 🙏
I'd rather have a titanium bike than carbon fiber. No need to worry about the frame exploding if it has an impact.
I fucking hate the way carbon bikes feel. I prefer steel to carbon. Ti if you can afford it. Aluminum frames should be illegal.
@@taitjones6310 why illegal for Al? Fatigue life?
@@taitjones6310 I rode a 853 steel bike for years. Put the wheelset on a lightweight alloy bike and literally had to stand up on the bike the majority of the ride so harsh was the frame! Steel had spoiled me!
@Bernd DasBrot Because there are not many options for other materials in their price range. In the late 90's you could ride similarly equipped steel and aluminium bikes back to back, it was clear steel rode better but marketing pushed the weight savings of aluminum.
A cycling buddy of mine was out on training run on his pride and joy carbon bike.:..hit a lot hole and frame cracked up...he fell off and broke his neck ...was paralised from neck down..:..survived for six months then died.....carbon frames should be xrayed periodically for cracks ....but who does that?....professionals get new bikes regularly so bikes are new for them ..ordinary people keep their carbons awhile...:i sold my carbon bike after my buddies accident .:.on alloy bike now ....i will never ride carbon again....remember this story folks....if you ride carbon frame regular check for cracks and if possible get it xrayed. Remember carbon is only plastic glue and fibers..
The bike in the background was stunning😊
I have an aluminum, a carbon and a Ti bike. They are all good,but the Ti is my favourite. There is something, that I can't actually describe, in the ride quality that feels sleeker.
I got a new titanium bike this year because I love the corrosion resistance, raw finish, fatigue limit properties, and ride quality. I think Reynolds 953 Stainless Steel tubing can be equally good, though.
Modern metallurgy and welding practice is phenomenal regardless of the metal. A well-built aluminum, stainless steel or titanium bicycle from this year can, if cared for, be handed down to your grandchildren.
held onto a 2013 norco XFR ...looked minty until i was hit by a truck last month ,which is a lot to say for a bike i rode year round in canada
I bought a Ti roadbike last year. Got an Ti mtb a few weeks back. And when the time comes to replace my cyclocross bike, it'll be Ti too. Dont care if its the best or not, i just really love it
You should now do a bit on Magnesium frames. 60% lighter than aluminum but as strong as carbon fiber. You can use the Pinarello Dogma AK-61 frame as an example (2007 frame, which won the TDF by the way).
You could watch a video about corrosion as well.
Love my Lynskey Ti bike. Best ride quality of any bike I've owned. Last week I had the opportunity to tour Roark Cycles facility (custom Ti frame builder). Very cool process.
how does it feel compared to steel, aluminum and carbon fiber
Fun fact: the m's printed on M&Ms are titanium dioxide.
Another fun fact-your body likes Titanium-bone will grow onto and attach to it-which is one reason why it is largely used orthopaedic surgery.
and dental implants
Yep, just finished eating millions of M&M's scraped of all the M's, processed it into titanium tubes and built my titanium bike
Have you worked off all those M&M's you ate to make that bike frame yet?
@@K777John my fibia and tibia are titanium my body doesn't like it all that much. No flex makes for a rigid leg. I suppose it's better than not having a leg 😅
That position hurts my back just looking at it
Steven Tencer that can’t be real. It’s probably just like that for the presentation and to get the clamp on the seat post.
You ever seen the hunchback of notre dame
Clearly set that way to clamp the seatpost.
Idk si might truly be a hunchback
I actually AM a hunchback, and even a seatpost slammed al the way down is painful for me to ride if there's drop bars. That setup would be physically impossible for me to even sit on.
I've got Al, carbon, steel, combos of the above and an old Ti Merckx. The Merckx get 90+% of the ride time. Hard to explain but it does everything very well and looks really cool. Plus zero worries.
Please tell me you're going to go for a ride on that beautiful Enigma and make an impressions video.
Just as all carbon bikes are not the same, Ti bikes depend on the proper alloy in the right place, and expert manipulation of the tubes. I test-rode several Ti bikes in the early 2000's, and all felt dead until I tried a Litespeed Ultimate, with a mix of 6/4 and 3/2.5. 17 years later, and it's as lively as ever. Maybe the basic straight-gauge tubes have improved since then, but definitely try before you jump on a 'budget' Ti bike.
Two years ago I rebuilt it with all new Super Record components, and built a twin carbon Litespeed (C1R) with the same components, wheels and geometry, so I'm able to compare apples to apples between the best carbon and the best Ti. While they feel quite different, I can't decide which I like better... but if I had to choose just one bike to keep it would be Ti. I view the carbon one as race-only, and only for TT and hilly road races at that, because it's lighter and more aero. For crits I'll grab the Ti bike 10 out of 10 times for its toughness. One crit crash and the carbon bike could be destroyed by a Ti bike.
What's not mentioned in the GCN video is the fatigue life of Ti alloys. They make far superior springs than spring-steel due to lower hysteresis and much longer fatigue life. This flexing and returning nearly all of the spring energy is what gives Ti its life-long lively feel, similar to a good brand new steel bike, without getting whipped out in a couple years (or decades!) as steel does.
Very nicely done, sir! Great pacing and cadence, great data presentation and relating it to practical matters, and a very positive overall demeanor. Bravo, mate!
My No 22 rides like nothing else. Highly recommend giving ti a try if you haven’t yet. Simon is right about that undeniable ride feel separate from steel and carbon
I took a quick spin on a titanium bike for the first time the other day, and I was surprised how pronounced that feel actually was. I was kinda expecting it to be a slight difference, but it was very distinctive.
I'll have to agree with you. My No.22 is the most comfortable bike I've owned.
placebo effect. Lets see you feel all these perceived differences if the bike is disguised. FYI, such tests have been conducted with a number of top pros and endurance riders. Verdict, they could not distinguish one frame material from the other any better than random guessing given similar components set up.
I bought my De Rosa Titanio back in 1995 complete with Campy Record Gruppo, Campy Shamal wheel, K-EMS Composite fork, Selle Turbo saddle and other … those were exotic pieces in ‘95 … and today still intact and smooth as a silk … that’s what you get from titanium frame, never ending satisfaction and last …
i'd love to submerge that frame in a bathtub with water and baking soda, and run a 30V DC Current through it to anodise it to a stunning blue.. or 60 V DC to make it Gold... :)
Anodising Titanium is really easy, and recently i saw a video of an American bike builder that makes titanium frames, and the anodise their brand name on the frames.. Stunning!
Don't even need to do that. Just heat the metal to the colour you want.
That would be Lynskey.
I love how clear the explanations are... I think to buy a Enigma Excel GR but not sure yet... is it worthy ?
I've been a welder for three years now. I've yet to weld titanium but stainless is my favorite material to weld thus far.
DosWheelsBetter My teacher said stainless is good for people that want to braze a steel that doesn't rust. Titanium is a lot more work.
DosWheelsBetter apparently titanium is very similar to weld to stainless steel, it is tig welded mainly but I have one that is plasma arc welded
DosWheelsBetter, I'm a terrible welder but lately I've been milling Ti. What a learning curve that was.
I also learned of you snap a hss drill in Ti, you can remove it with ferric chloride and not harm the Ti.
I have a 6/4 Litespeed a 3/2.5 Merlinand a Serotta Legend Ti. The first is very aggressive while the second and third are very smooth. The daily drivers are a Parlee Z3 and two Serottas, an Ottrott and a Meivici. I love them all!
I read about this company which made a berylium bike, Berylium doesn’t extrude so the tubes had to be made by rolling a sheet into a tube. I think welding was a problem, it was very light - but poisonous.
solid & useful video, guys. namely distinguishing between the 2 types of titanium, and also pointing out many of its differences against Al and Fe.
thanks.
An informative and interesting tech piece...now please do a ride and performance evaluation of titanium compared to steel, aluminum and carbon bikes.
I ride a 15-year-old Serrotta ti bike. I love it. Tried to convince myself I needed a new bike, but just upgraded components. The most remarkable feature is that it loves to go downhill fast. Without trying, I just roll past friends.
It's just weird how alloys, with only a small percentage of different metals are so radically different than pure metals.
No it's not, you just have a very limited knowledge of science. You see it across all materials not just metals.
@@AirCrash1 Maybe he just meant that it was "interesting". And I'm sure you know all about his knowledge of science (or anything else, for that matter).
@@SinnerSince1962 The 90s are calling, they say they want their white knight back.
@@AirCrash1 Asshole.
@@AirCrash1 MICRO PENIS PAUL COMPENSATING AGAIN!! FUCK caps
I've just bought a titanium frame so was waiting for this video. Thanks!
Awesome!
Got my Materials exam at Uni tomorrow, we have a section on Titanium. I'm going to pass my exam now, thanks GCN! XD
Great, good luck Ellis!
GCN Tech there wasn’t a question on titanium, probably failed, should’ve revised instead of watching videos 🙃
Aesthetic alone of Ti does it for me, just like a 2003 Macbook. That bike looks epic!
I have a Seven Axiom SL. I am 54 years old and it is without a doubt the best thing I ever purchased for myself. Looking at it fills me with joy. Riding it? I don't have words. Great video.
Cheers David
I’m considering a titanium gravel bike for my next bike with a set of road and off road wheels. Titanium is virtually indestructible and doesn’t need to be painted because it won’t corrode. If it gets scratched just polish it. If you travel a lot it’s more resistant to baggage handlers! I believe it to be a true life time bike!
it is :-) I have frequently traveled with a sub 7kg ti bike without a bikecase. no problem
I had a Ti gravel bike built for my around the world bike tour and had a set of S&S couplers installed when it was built. Best decision ever. It rips on the road with some slightly narrow tires, but takes everything you can throw at it on gravel or with a couple fully loaded ortlieb packs on the back. A Ti gravel bike with couplers is the true do it all, take it anywhere bike.
Have you looked into moots? they make some lovely titanium gravel bikes. I have a routt rsl it's the bees knees.
I've been making heading (forging) dies for titanium fasteners for over 30 years and never knew so much about 6AL4V as I learned watching this video. Very concise. Thanks for making this vid.
I'm hoping you know what GPa and MPa stand for. Using terms like Young's Modulus suggests you do. I would prefer you used the actual terms rather than the units for them. I don't have a kg or cm.
I'm not sure if Si is reading from a script or not, but he is a natural at presenting, well done professor1
marnug Cheers!
This professor should better get back to uni though! MPa and GPa are units and not values. You don't say "My maximum power output is high: it's a Watt of 500" just as you don't say "Titanium's yield strength is a MPa of 1000".
What about 3D-printed Titanium? On that note. A visit to Bastion Cycles in Australia should be perfect for GCN Tech! Combine it with some Tour Down Under content ^_^ Love the video btw! Keep up the good work!
Anders Øksendal Larsen Bastion is the work of art
On that trip to Australia GCN could also check out Baum down in Geelong not far from Bastion in Melbourne. Bay Crits or Cadel Ride next year?
Anders Øksendal Larsen bastion are copies of another lugged frame and they come apart. Lugged frames look good but a bit yesterday imo. I'd take a Baum.or a Liynksey, etc.
glenny oc Calling Bastion "a copy" is a bit harsh. And I believe the bonding issue was fixed a good while ago. Inspired by other lugged bikes maybe, but have you ridden one? Currently I have a Van Nicholas Boreas which I love, and I'm fortunate enough to own a Bastion. The rides are totally different and I must say the Bastion is the best thing I've ever tried :-D
Ive ridden a couple of other branbs over the years and Kbedfords road frame was one that i really liked. I'm sure Bastion fixed up the glue problem. I'm sure they are fine now. Nothing ground breaking mind you so many are doing it now.
Excellent video. I chose to watch this video because I’m in the process of purchasing a light speed titanium bike on craigslist. Your video was extremely informative. It gave me the basic knowledge to know that I’m making a sound purchase.
I think GCN need to do a review of a titanium bike!
Tom Newham they hardly review stuff. Mostly are paid intros
Love my 2011 Ti Seven Axiom SL, it brings a smile to my face every time I ride it! The two things I love about Ti, ride quality and timeless design.
hows does the ride compare to steel, aluminum and carbon
@@gummybear41283 because my Seven was designed for me the ride quality is right where I want it to be. The carbon bike that I use to own handled extremely well, but didn't have the ride quality I was looking for.
@@irideaduck939 whats their website? and what current model would be like yours
That bike is a stunner. Love the absolute black oval chainring!!
what is it?
That was one comprehensive video. Very well researched and executed. Top notch m8.
All the hard core cyclists I've met eventually end up on Ti. I would love to buy Ti but I can't quite afford it yet. Thanks.
I’m impressed by your super smooth transitions! Paper to bike is an example. Professionally done.
The world leader in manufacturing in titanium is probably akrapovic. That would have been interesting to se their manufacturing teqniqes.
this presenter is so perfect. Great voice, nice tempo and no hesitations. Very, very good.
More in titanium bikes please. Take one for a spin Si.
I love this tech videos! I'm stress engineer and you guys explain it very good. Congrats and thanks!
My Merlin titanium bike is going to outlast me,, I crashed the carbon colnago C60 and broke,,,what a waist of money...my Cannondale cadd 12 broke behind the bottom bracket,,, but my schwinn paramount and the Merlin just keeps going and going and going..
I guess the best bike is the one that you ride everyday...go titanium ,,, you won't be disappointed...
Thank you for sharing the video. Any chance of explaining the various tube butting and welding (or brazing methods) to allow for more informed future purchases?
I'm dying to get a ti frame
Coach JG RIP your bank account if you do 😂
Coach J
try habcycles.com. got a custom ti carver, then a stock habanero ti. i dont know why spend ghe extra dough on custom u less you really really want a lower bb and s&s on it
I got a ti frame (Lynskey Cooper CX) 2 years ago and I love it. It has drawn quite a few admiring comments from other cyclists.
Ryan Ford you can get a commercial titanium frame for 1100 euros
Good stuff-maybe you need a video to cover all the materials science basics. Stress, strain, E, ultimate tensile stress,yield, fatigue, factors of safety.
Simon... why why why... My Litespeed Teramo has been under the stairs for 5 years with a cracked seatstay... time to fix my favourite bike back to roadworthy condition. Titanium FTW.
I bought a "new" Litespeed years ago from the former PreOwnedBikes (which was like American Bicycle Group's certified refurb bikes). Cracked mine at the BB shell. They refused to warranty. Also bought a Tomac Taos at the same time, which was a great hardtail. Do a Google search of ABG titanium frames from that era and later on Lynskey frames...cracking seems pretty common with titanium.
Member of my bike club also had bad experience with Litespeed honoring warranties.
Thanks Si and the whole GCN team for enlighten us about Ti.
I work with commercially pure titanium for a living and another fun fact about Ti is it's non-magnetic
Lucky you!
Carbon isn't magnetic either and a wheel is round
Nor aluminium nor austenitic stainless ....
Titanium allow is mildly magnetic. I can feel the magnetism slighly on some titanium alloy bike parts using a neodynium magnet
yeah, an MRI tech told me they can barely even see the metal.
I moved from a scott addict to a Seven SLX titanium. I will never forget that first ride home from the shop. thought the bike had suspension.
It never ocuured to me how common titanium is on earth
Also, aluminium is the third most common element on the Earth's crust; iron, the fourth.
Pretty much everything white has been dyed with titanium oxide. Not just paper as mentioned but plastics, paint etc. The problem is that enormous amounts of energy are required to turn titanium oxide into titanium so it will never be cheap. Aluminium is similar in that it only occurs naturally as bauxite but it is cheaper, less energy intensive to process.
common but not all that easy to access.
Hi, we have a couple of bikes on our yacht, but the gears and chain rust. Would titanium be the answer and if so could you recommend some parts. The bikes are hybrid and are designed more for comfort than anything
I doubt you can get titanium chains..... Your best bet is good lubrication, good maintenance and cleaning of the vulnerable parts, and if possible, keep the bikes under covers when not in use, to reduce exposure to salt water spray and mist.
Simon Kinsella I think you may be correct. We keep it well lubricated with silicone spray. We can’t use wd40 because we live in Abu Dhabi.
We do keep them in the stem cabin but fear they is a worse place for them
You can't really say 'has an MPa of...', it's just a unit for breaking/limit stress. MPa stands for mega pascals: 1 Pa = 1 N/m²
Likewise GPa, giga pascals.
I picked up a 2018 Ti Century Pro by Moto -is a truly a great ride. Put about 1,000 miles on it so far this Spring. Hard to get one though, they sell out fast and of course you need to do some simple assembly. Can't beat the factory direct prices. I can't compare to other custom Ti but the ride is better than other mainstream bikes I've ridden over the years (riding since the 1970's). The weight is close to a high quality aluminum build, it's about 21 lbs with the heavy wheel set is comes with..
Agree, great bikes! I have a Moto Fantom Pro CX that doubles as a road bike in the summer.
Ca you do bamboo next?
"bamboo"?!?! This ain't a toy he's talkin about, lady.
@@HelloHello-hk4sx some noob doesn't know there's serious bamboo frames out there but had to be insulting. Bamboo is popular with tandems so it must be strong.
What about Ti skewers? I've read lots of pros and cons about this. It seems like an inexpensive way to knock 100 grams off the weight of the bike, but cro-mo steel seems much stiffer and safer. What's the best choice, Ti or steel skewers?
I've been using super light TI skewers for the last 1.5 years. No problems at all. Large Lynskey R360, 15.8 lb build. Moderately stiff with a silk smooth ride
My Ti Merlin Magia was built in about 2000. I'm at least the 3rd owner (had it 10 years). It has Shimano TL 24s and a Sram Force / Red groups (when is it going to get some love on the Tech show - photos sent weeks ago :-). Despite owning an S Works Roubaix with DA DI2, the Merlin is still my best bike. If only I could retro-fit it with discs.
Also, fun fact: Titanium has a melting point of 1670 degrees C, so if your house burns down (and so long as the roof doesn't fall on it), your frame will be fine.
I got my ti bike retrofitted with disk brakes
facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214803955476185&set=pcb.10214803962196353&type=3&theater
can't seem to get the page to open :-(
I have the idea to build the core of a table tennis paddle in titanium , which grade/thickness would you suggest ? Is it a good idea in the first place ? Helpfull video in any case , thanks.
As a mechanical engineer it is funny to listen to these guys describe this stuff. GPa is a unit not a spec. The way he described the "GPa" would be like describing someone's cm as 182 instead of describing the height as 182 cm. I guess you can figure it out when there is only one parameter being discussed. But if you just said the bikes cm is 47 then how would you know which measurement he is referring to.
Justin Becker I am glad I was not the only person who groaned at this. Gigapascals and Megapascals. Like mm and meters.
i have no idea WTF you are saying. It sounds like blablabla to me. To be fair I didn't listen to his bullshit as well. I was admiring Enigma bike instead.
Is a very beautiful bike!
Justin Becker fk off
Savage Poop, I think you need to explain some more, and with some reverence to modern grammar. It's so hilarious when someone calls another person an idiot when they're actually being an idiot themselves. I'm sure this only gets better, so keep it coming.
Are titanium spokes for bikes or motorcycles any good? Or are stock spokes better? Thank you
Scandium and magnesium still to review then....
Great presentation. Spot on. Just the right amount of words. Not too many. Not too few.
The "zing" bit made me laugh, is that the best people who have shelled out so much money can come up with to justify the expense! lol
Dave Hughes drive feel is probably the most important part.
Plus, youre finding the middle ground on all the other main materials. Lighter than steel, more comfortable than aluminum, tougher than carbon, and coorosion resistant. Might not be worth it to everyone, but I'd consider it for my next bike.
its also so purtty. so there is that
That's because it's the best word to describe the ride! I have more expensive steel and carbon framed bikes but they don't have the zing
Bob Lim I have a titanium XC hardtail and I've never been able to explain the feel of riding it until now. The description is really appropriate.
It's much more forgiving than an aluminium frame, and when you're riding a hardtail that's quite important.
Don’t have a single interest in bikes, but this video was superb. And that shop layout....thumbs up just for that.
Titanium; light as Aluminum, strong as steel.
And 10-20x as expensive
@@davecrupel2817 Yes. It used to be $8.50 a pound at my company's machine shop. But now it is $30.00 a pound.
Ti is quite a bit heavier than aluminum, (in between, but closer to steel than aluminum), and stronger than steel used on bicycles. It is because of it's strength that bike tubes can be made thinner than steel and much thinner than aluminum. Surprisingly, high end bicycle frames made from those different materials almost weigh the same.
I have a 1999 Airborne Lucky Strike. I put it though off-road hell for a while, and now - 20+ years later - I still use it as my do-everything/commuting cycle. It still looks and feels fantastic, and I wouldn’t be shocked it it outlives me. 😅
(Great vid!)
Titanium aero bike?
Not sure if it's possible to get the shapes of the tubes right.
Litespeed Ultimate from 2005 and 2006. Tubes are not just round. They have an aero shape.
Lance Armstrong used a Titanium aerodynamic bike made by litespeed to win a TT in the 90s. It was re-painted to look like a Trek but it was a Litespeed.
Titanium is very springy and has a long fatigue life. It's the material of choice for soft-tail frames because it can handle the repeated flexing. That springiness is what gives it such great ride qualities. It really does feel like riding a living beast that wants to run.
bamboo.. next?
Ian Barton the debt will probably be for the chainring and crank to pass the chainstay.
I really don't think you meant to reply to me :)
Ian Barton fk off. Go play with yourself troll.
My Serotta Concourse CS ti bike has always been a great smooth ride! My very first road bike was a low end Cannondale aluminum, so much rougher on the road.
GPa is gigaPascal, which is 10^9 Pascal or (N/m^2). So the titanium alloy has a Youngs modulus of 110 GPa, not a gpa of 110.
Ti so brittle is it likely to crack at head tube when putting in new cups?
Only Stainless Steel left eh? ;-)
magnesium?
Scandium
Graphene
Stainless steel is steel.
bamboo?
Aluminium is best, stronger than Carbon. Carbon is ok for a road bike as not much stress going on but definitely Aluminium for Mountain, Endura or XC bikes.
Is it stronger than carbon though?
Ambrose Goode Explain how that makes it better than Ti as well. Are you saying that Ti can't handle stress as well as Al or carbon? Pretty big assumption that carbon fiber frames can't handle stress and strain as well as Al.
Carbon has a higher tensile strength to steel let alone aluminium but surface strength sucks . Also carbon is strong only one direction hence why frames have different layers in different directions to accommodate different stress levels .
UNLESS YOU NEED TO REPAIR IT.
Aluminum is not stronger then good quality carbon. Check Santa Cruz vid. They break both aluminum and CF rear triangle on special stand . CF was actually almost 25% or 30% more difficult to break. Real difference is where aluminum bends carbon cracks. Personally I see only aesthetic and price difference between aluminum and CF today. Weight difference is 200-300 gram. Doesn't change anything for me.
My John Tomac Design Series Raleigh titanium mtb is still going strong as it enters its 28th season. Original Deore components. One of the best purchases I've ever made.
I have three carbon bikes: an Alan from 1988, an ICE from 1998 and a Neuvation from 2011. The evolution has been mostly in compliance without sacrificing power stiffness, secondary to monocoque construction with infinitely variable tube material, shape and thickness. This suits me in my old age in terms of comfort. Can a Ti frame with fixed radius and thickness tubes really match that?
Check out Dean bikes! Currently racing for Athlete Octane racing team in Arizona. Riding a a devo geometry and its incredible! Will be released to the public soon!
Which of those materials would be the best (safest, longest lasting) choice for a very heavy rider doing bikepacking?
There are many A-10 Warthog pilots that are thankful for the properties of the titanium “bathtub” that they sit in during flight. Informative video, I look forward to hearing your impressions of titanium after you spend some more time on one.
My straight gauge Tom Kellogg designed Merlin is more than 30 years old. It's a 1992 the same year Greg LeMond used the prototype Merlin Extra Light butted friame in the Tour de France.