Introducing Duo: ZWO's new 2600MC with integrated guider | First Light Results | Deep Dive analysis
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- The new ASI 2600 Duo caused quite a stir when it was announced recently and we are pleased to bring you our indepth first light results
Astroworkz presenter Simon Lewis takes a look at the new ASI2600MC Duo - an IMX571 APS-C camera with a unique built in guide camera.
This caused quite a stir on social media with a lot of questions being asked:
How will I integrate Duo into my system?
Will Duo guide with short exposures ?
How big an image circle do I need?
Will Duo guide with narrowband filters?
Well we answer all these and a lot more!
There are some new updated features for the ASI2600MC Duo too, so check out the video and see what makes it an attractive combination.
Its ultra convenient .. warning! Use it and you might never want to go back to using a guide scope or Off Axis Guider again!
All will be revealed in todays video!
00:00 Introduction
02:06 What Is Duo and new updates to the ASI2600
06:24 New M54 Tilt Plate - for ASI2600 / 6200 and 2400 series cameras
07:44 Integrating Duo & Image circle requirements
10:52 Duo & Filters
12:17 First Light - Testing baseline
13:29 Filter Tests across varying speeds, image circles and filters
19:40 Duo and Hyperstar results
21:15 Final analysis from first light
22:35 Slower Scopes ?
Get your ASI2600MC Duo from Agena Astro - An Astroworkz Afiliate
agenaastro.com/zwo-asi2600mc-...
ZWO ASI2600 DUO Product Page
astronomy-imaging-camera.com/...
TS Optics CF80 APO
www.teleskop-express.de/shop/...
0.8 x reducer for TS optics CF Range
www.teleskop-express.de/shop/... 
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This is absolutely wonderful
And I’m happy I found this channel!!
Glad you enjoy it!
Many thanks for this review - have been looking forward to a review for a long time - very interesting.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent review. Can't wait to receive my Duo!
Hope you enjoy it! I'm quite taken with it :) It won't work for everyone and it won't fit every scenario but for many it will make like a lot easier and less messy :)
Great video. These were very much the results I was expecting. I'll be doing my own tests soon too and have already done some imaging.
nice one Ben hope you enjoyed Cherry Springs :)
@@TeamAstroworkz I did. Kids wore me out but they did have fun.
Thanks
I was going to get the asi2600mc pro but now got to get the duo ❤
I am loving mine :)
Great review mate. Busting a few myths along the way!
funny there is always a lot of preconceived ideas on social media ... I prefer hard facts LOL
I am looking for a replacement for my ASI071MC, but I'd like to see some Duo tests with C9.25" on targets like M51 and M101 first.
I think this was a well done review - I admit I was very critical of this approach and glad to see that it works for short focal lengths - My own experience with my 14" EdgeHD, an ASI2600MM Pro and a ZWO OAG with a Lodestar X2 is that at the longer focal lengths finding enough bright stars is always a challenge and putting a narrowband filter in front of the guider will make it just that much more difficult. I'm not sure if ZWO will ever make a mono version of this camera but I'm not convinced from this review that it would work well for single passband Ha, OIII, and S2 filters - As you know a 3 nm dual band filter is really passing 6 nm of light to the guider - to me a convincing acid test would be with a narrow S2 filter in the image path (not a dual band light pollution type of filter) - if that works I'd be impressed. I look forward to a test with a long focal length scope. Thanks for the excellent review !
thanks ... no its def not going to suit every scenario ... TJ is busy testing with longer FL on his Edge 11 so we might have some idea soon. I'll have to pull a filter out of the wheel and try that test! not too difficult to do a I have a spare wheel and filters on my desk. Stay tuned! I'd def love a mono version!
Would it be good with a c11
2800mm. Or with a reducer ..??
F10/6.3
Great review, many thanks, very helpful. My question is what is the bortle class of the location you did your test shots?
I am in Bortle 2-3
Hello Simon, need your help here please:
Firstly, this is great video so thank you so much for the efforts.
I have Edge 8, and a 0.7x reducer - making image circle 26mm. Am not sure if this expected to work well, but am struggling to get guiding stars (sometimes I have only one blurry star), specially when I image galaxies such as Whirlpool, Bode's, Cigars etc.
By not using the 0.7x reducer, the image circle becomes 44mm, however since focal length is high (2032mm), the Field of view narrows down, and hence reduces guiding stars, leaving me on the same problem as above.
I have finetuned the silver focus knob on DUO, increased gain and exposure enough under clear skies, but no luck.
Please advise.
Interested to know TJ's findings with the HD9.25. I own same scope. Would like it to use with a OSC and a filter drawer (2"). Would. like to know how he managed to get his backfocus without using a T-adapter (I have read the T-adapter may not work with the duo as the image circle is smaller)
42 mm is the image circle needed to cover full-frame 35-mm film. The OAG can tolerate some vignetting or coma that a photographer wouldn't want to see. I think that is why nearly all telescopes have image circles big enough for this instrument.
Question, can I use the Zwo duo on a 14 inch F5 Newtonian ? I want to place the camera in the center of the scope instead of the secondary mirror, direct imaging. I also want to use a corrector.
Thanks you
No problem :)
Watched, thanks. Does answer my question. Think an Optolong L-Pro light pollution filter would also work?
yup sure don't think an issue with a LPRO
Nice informative video. What was the Bortle scale of the sky for the tests?
2-3 with fog LOL
I don't know much about Tak telescopes but I am quite surprised about the guide stars lack of roundness. All screenshots you showed were similar. That's something I would have expected to see with a RASA. How would you explain this?
Thanks for the review. Currently using a 533MC with a 220mm guide, 80mm refractor and of course on my new favorite mount the AM5. Question can the AIR power this camera or does it need a separate power supply?
ASIAIR can power it perfectly :) its no different than any of the other cooled cams ...works a treat !
Thanks for the review!
I have the ES FCD100 127mm CF refractor with the 3” FR…
Did you explicitly state that in this scenario 43mm image circle -all- the guide stars were rather distorted, or just those at the edges? Thanks! David D
just those at the edge - centre image circle is ok ... the guide stars were a bit mishapen but not an issue to guide on and I had not taken a lot of time tuning the back focus between cameras :)
Thanks for this review. Now which image circle is required to cover guide and image sensor considering image scope vignetting? 48mm, 54mm?
min 44mm really
I just got one and it does NOT work at F8 at 2000mm narrowband (3nm)
Great review Simon!
Do you have any news about the rotator? When it goes on sale?
Thank you!
still no news on that one sorry to say
Wondering if they've sorted out their fan mount vibration issues or not. That's a bigger issue to me than pretty much anything else with a ZWO camera.
there have been some change to fan mounting implemented on all ZWO cameras more recently
First I think those are just rumors. I have 5 cameras and have never had this issue. I talked to a friend last night and he has 8 cameras and he has also never had the issue.
Second the new duo does have a completely new suspension system that hold the fan. So these rumors should become a thing of the past.
I checked my latest version ASI 071 with my VIBROMETER and it was fine. That being said I also installed the commercial fan dampers available from several companies. Before and after was mostly negligible. In any case actual image results showed no issue with image quality. I also checked some of my other cameras including a heavy and large SBIG STL 6303e mono with full set of internal 2" filters. No issue with any of the cameras but the one that had the absolute best vibration performance was my ATIK which had NO detectable vibration. I was also amused that the fan used in my SBIG STL6303e was the identical fan and model of the one in my ZWO 071. These fans are extremely cheap and easy to replace so if you had a bad one if would be best to just get another fan. Note that dust and grime can accumulate on the blades of the fan over time so probaby good idea to clean those blades with a paint brush on a regular basis to avoid out of balance issues.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel I 100% believe you that you haven't had problems, and I 100% believe knowledgeable people that they have changed their mounts/dampeners. That said, there are numerous videos from people showing before and after images with stock vs upgraded fan dampeners that did make a significant difference.
Informative review...can you provide a link for the new tilt plate. Thanks
astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/m54-tilter/
Excellent video. Very helpful.
Wondering if you have any thoughts on the duo for my application.
I just finished building my roll off roof observatory with an Edge HD800. I use the Celestron Edge HD reducer, mounted on a solid 12” pier.
Can you safely say that this duo would be a good addition to my set up?
Much appreciated my friend!
I do love the breadth of topics covered, and your explanations are very clear, and easy to understand.
I appreciate all Astroworx does.
Sincerely,
Tony V
thanks Tony - appreciate the feedback - we have not yet had a report on this setup with the image circle - the 9.25" reducer does work for sure - what we do know is that the image circles from these are larger than those stated which seems to be guarantee star quality - so MOST likely Tony :) but not yet 100pc confirmed !
Any update on tests with Edge HD8?
Well done being out in front on this. You pointed directly to my setup, the Edge HD8, and .7x reducer resulting in a much smaller than usual image circle. The reducer on the Edge HD8 results in a focal length of 1422mm at F7 with a 26.7mm image circle, so it has me in doubt about whether the ASI2600 Duo will auto-guide with my rig. Any chance you could test this setup?
that's the question we can't answer right now ... TJ has a 9.25 and now 11... with reducer and works fine and he has not had any issue or with his hyperstar - but neither of use own the 8 or RASA's so there are still some gaps in the testing for sure until its more widely released
Did Tj finish his tests? I have a rasa 8 that I can loan. I’m in NJ
Great review! I would have liked a bit more images or videos from the setup you have tried. This camera will replace my 294MC!
yes can do a follow up ... in effect its not really much to see .... a camera like the 2600 on a scope ... the magic is inside the faceplate :) the 2600 is a well known camera and the images will be the same too which is why we concentrated on the guide quality
@@TeamAstroworkz sure, I mean live shots of the guiding screen, not the final result of the camera as it will be the same as 2600 's sensor which everyone knows :) Thank you!
Makes it impossible to rotate the off-axis guider to select where in the sky you want it pointing, relative to the image you want to shoot.
thats a good point Fred - one I didnt think of - thats a limitation yes
Could you please test the askar d filter, it has an Oiii+Sii filter
I would say that given the results with the other dual band filters this should be no different :)
Hello, at the moment I have two telescopes, a TS 80 with a 480 mm focal length and a TS RC 6 inches with a 155 mm aperture and 1370 mm focal length. I have an ATIK 383L+ but I would like to switch to CMOS and I was thinking about the ASI 2600 DUO. Do you think it would be a good choice?
Thank you so much.
yes the RC will be fine and the TS80 will ok too ...
thank you so much
Thoughts on using on Edge HD 14?
hope to have news on longer FL in the next days :)
Newton 200/1000 f5 it is possible to use this camera with l-extreme? Thanks
Don't see any reason why not if you can get it mounted with the right focus
Simon, I read somewhere--possibly the ZWO Forum--that this Duo will not work on the RASA as the light cone does not illuminate the guider chip. Can you confirm that this will or will not work on the RASA 8? Thanks, excellent content here.
Did you watch the video? It’s literally a specific topic he touches on thrice.
@@ApoorvaIyer I did, but the comment for Simon was ambiguous since neither of them have a RASA 8. Hoping for something more definitive at some point.
The answer in the video was (summarized) “we don’t have one. You’ll have to wait until people get their hands on the actual camera to test it out”.
we checked the RASA 8 - confirmed as working even with dual band filters
@@TeamAstroworkz how did you connect the M54 threads on the Duo to the RASA 8?
Ordered mine from ZWO, wondering when they are full filing orders for them. Going to be killer with my new AM5 and ZWO 80mm scope.
going out now in the order of date placed - be despatched soon I am sure :)
Thank you very much for this very interesting Video! I have a Skywatcher 80 ED (F 7.5) on an Eq5 Pro, and I also have an Optolong L-Ultimate filter. My question is : Do you know if anyone has tested the ASI 2600 MC Duo with this configuration (Optolong L-Ultimate 3 nm and F 7.5)?
Thank you
I tested on my 127 at f7 ok with L Ultimate
@@TeamAstroworkz , thank you!
@@TeamAstroworkz Hello Simon, need your help here please:
Firstly, this is great video so thank you so much for the efforts.
I have Edge 8, and a 0.7x reducer - making image circle 26mm. Am not sure if this expected to work well, but am struggling to get guiding stars (sometimes I have only one blurry star), specially when I image galaxies such as Whirlpool, Bode's, Cigars etc.
By not using the 0.7x reducer, the image circle becomes 44mm, however since focal length is high (2032mm), the Field of view narrows down, and hence reduces guiding stars, leaving me on the same problem as above.
I have finetuned the silver focus knob on DUO, increased gain and exposure enough under clear skies, but no luck.
Please advise.
The Celestron White paper on the RASA 8 shows it as having a 'useful field' of 32mm and no doubt with poorer quality beyond that so guiding with a a DUO on a RASA 8 should be do able...
we checked the RASA 8 - yes it will work and with dual band filters too :)
Thanks for this test. It's quite interesting indeed.
As far as I can understand, using this set-up on an SCT at f/10 isn't the best idea (or even on my Skymax 180 at f/15).
I own an SVBONY 102ED refractor at f/7, and the matching 0.7 reducer (I think this one offers a 28mm circle).
I am wondering, would a monochrome ASI2600 Duo work well with NB filters with this refractor? (the horrible light pollution here in Athens doesn't seem very conductive on using an OSC camera)
thats a very qood question and one I've asked ZWO about :) a mono version! The image is an interesting one ... its not clear but some stated image circles are only for the centre of the image and further out the image doesnt just stop ... but you might have less than circular shaped stars - PHD and ASIAIR both managed on my 127 refractor reducer and the star were very much mishapen
@@TeamAstroworkz from what I understand PHD2 doesn't even need circular point stars in order to do its job.
And since your guiding camera is at the same focal length as the main camera, it should have quite a generous amount of fine correction compared to a 230-250mm focal length guide scope.
very true ... PHD2 is pretty amazing what it can guide on :)
Hope to see performance on the new Antlia 2.5 hso filters.
its a colour camera so not sure you will see that from anyone .. 2.5nm is ok I'd suspect on faster scopes and with 2-3s exposures
Shouldn’t full disclosure include the fact that you are working for ZWO?
I don't really - thats not my day job :) but as I said we were loaned them for testing and we would publish what we find good or bad ... I don't believe in only posting glowing reports if there are things that don't work
Yep still waiting for those in the community to test, as yet there’s no examples in the wild only those with heavy ZWO factory support…
Rather than the value of 91% QE shown on the ZWO description chart (pictured on this video from 3:02 to 3:19), this table entry has been changed by ZWO to now show as 80%. This is a huge decrease in efficiency.
I have a similar setup to yourself and this is interesting however I'd still like to see real-world tests by people without a vested interest with ZWO (no offense I love your work)
Tyler and I said from the start that we are only going to publish results that we actually find - if stuff doesn't work then we are going to say it doesn't - I don't believe in publishing videos with false info for someone to then spend hard earned money on and find it didnt do what they expected - to do these videos I theres some boundaries we have to follow - if I thought it was a lemon I'd not be publishing and telling ZWO's team just that ! We can't test every scenario either which is what I said in the video. It won't fit everyones set up and some will have to do more research particularly around image circles. But we also found not everything is black and white there either :) But I am very aware of the that Nik :)
@@TeamAstroworkz I understand that mate but maybe make it available for some end users to test who are not affiliated with ZWO they can report back to you as well.
@@nikaxstrophotography I know .. they didnt anyones for pilot ... will be this week I think
Interesting review, well done. Begs the question, why guide at all? Dithering and cloud cover issues can be covered off in other ways.
Ok, we know now that it works on fast scopes with short focal length even with dual narrowband filters..... WOW!!!! First of all that is an EXTREMELY low bar, second of all what is the point? For these kind of scopes any guiding solution like a small guide scope or an OAG will do well and there is almost no saving as Duo is more expensive. Then you have issues like that you have to calibrate every time you turn the camera, which is not the case with any other guiding solution. So thanks for testing but my verdict stays unchanged that this camera does not really make any sense, with a few exceptions like the Hyperstar.
it fits some scenarios but won't fit everyone ....as I said.... and you're most welcome to your views ... and for sure not all will find it of use ... the 2600 is 1800, duo 2000, a 220 is 300 and then add a guidescope on top so individual components is def more expensive off the shelf... but despite that .. its less mess with cables etc. For long FL scopes and OAG it might not be for you ... I can see and already experienced the ease of using it to simplify a system... so we'll have to agree to disagree there :)
Unfortunately, your "pushing the envelope" didn't really push the envelope. At 500mm and f/6 it's not particularly challenging to use an OAG,. While people certainly use them on any size scope, the place where an OAG is really needed is in long focal length scopes with their resulting very small field of view. That small field of view makes it tough to find a guide star at times with those setups, even though you're guiding in front of the filter. Putting the guide camera behind a filter like the Duo does will certainly make that even harder.
yes very aware of that and its a valid point - TJ is doing further tests on this as well .. as I said in my video he loves his reflectors :) I think Duo does more than replace an OAG ... it really replaces a guidescope on any set up too. Which i think will make it popular but it won't fit every scenario or set up for sure. We will publish more as TJ gets a a smoke free window
@@TeamAstroworkz Absolutely. As a guide-scope replacement, it's a winner.
RASA 8 yes or no ???????????????????????
hang in there we are trying to find one to test :)
@@TeamAstroworkz No worries :) My 2600mc Pro is doing fine but imagine the RASA minus one cable dangling from the front end. Imagine guiding the Edge HD 8+0.7 Reducer and no guidescope or OAG-L !!! Imagine if you can :)