This may be the first time im thankful for some ignorant person or persons not taking responsibility for his or her actions. Thank you Eric for another very educational update. You sure been a blessing an mentor.
0:17 stainless steel and 4140 both has very low percentage of carbon in them. The CLR is removing the carbon that has built up in the rifling, not effecting the chemical bonds of the atoms in the steel itself.
Thank you. if it were that easy to manipulate the chemical composition off your alloy, no gun would work longer than a few shots (if at all) and people would rather go to war with stones on sticks.
rydplrs, I take it you’re likely a materials engineer or a tribology analyst. If I’m not mistake, you raised a point about stress cracking of CLR on bare high carbon steel. I’d like to see any Ra measurements from a surface trace before and after being subjected to CLR. Granted, I would think this would be heavily dependent on the residence time of the acid in contact with the surface. I would be highly doubtful if it has any describable influence on fatigue life of a barrel, or any quantifiable influence on the asperity contact interface between the copper jacket and the lands. Also, if we consider the design life of a competition match barrel of ~2000 rounds, practically I think there could likely be more favorable benefits of a cleaner barrel with potentially increasing surface asperities, than a barrel with carbon build up. I could be mistaken in my thought process, and I’m always open to learning more, and please set me straight if you have data indicating otherwise. Thanks!
@@BurnDuration I’ve done semiconductor process engineering for 20 years with part of that being part cleaning procedures. I don’t think you would see a difference in Ra, even with an AFM. Ra was only measured on parts that were physically resurfaced. you would see it in SEM images. As for the differences in performance or barrel life I don’t know if it would be measurable, just that CLR is not a best practice for cleaning steel without having any effect the substrate. I look at it like racing, you do everything possible using best practices, and occasionally those very small differences will make the difference between winning and losing.
Sorry, I work with a lot of 4140/4145 , both are high carbon steel with a high Crome content, but your right CLR in your barrel is not going to affect it in the least ✌🏼
Dude, you are so humble and provide great information. It's obvious you just want to help people and the sport. Thank you, I have learned a ton from your videos
Your videos are the highlight of my day. It is so rare to see an experienced person who has so much knowledge willing to share it and do it the way you do. There is so much worthless garbage out there today. Erik we think alike. I’m a machinist/technician/mechanic/programmer/ and very amateur reloader. I like the way you think and use common sense. Do things that get results and measure it or verify it somehow. I’m from Texas too!
This guy can hit a Gnat's ass at 1000 yards. Also his rifles are probably worth thousands. Why would he use a product that would damage his rifle's bore?
Because barrels are disposable. Some shooters get new barrels every 3000 rounds or so. They just get it clean however they can knowing they'll swap it out soon.
Thanks for the video Erik. It would be great, if you could do a video on "reading" the borescope. How carbon fouling/carbon ring looks like. What level of fire cracking is still ok and when the barrel is toast etc...
Erik, Received the same model of Teslong Bore Scope last Friday. Operating it is great and now can tell how my cleaning process is going. Thanks for all the videos and info.
The thing about CLR is that it's an acid. Wiping it out with alcohol will not get it out. There needs to be some neutralizing going on such as some kind of an alkaline solution. Get the carbon out...yup, tough on barrels...yup. Maybe not so bad for stainless but on carbon steel barrels, I'm not doin' it. The Teslong is the Nuts!
Hi again Erik I gave CLR a try on a section of a canon steel blued barrel it removed every trace of carbon with no damage to the barrel or the bluing , The procedure I used was 50/50 CLR and warm water squirted into the barrel , rotate the barrel so you get a full cover inside the barrel let it sit for about 15 minutes run a nylon brush through about 15 times from back to front then patch it out until the patches are as clean as you can get them , then run 4 Ballistol soaked parches through and 4 dry patches to remove any excess Ballistol , the Ballistol treatment is important to prevent rust forming as the CLR removes everything that lubricates the barrel , it worked perfect for me and had absolutely no side effects , I hope that clearers up any confusion or doubts people may have about this procedure I would love to see your and your viewers comments on this Kind Regards Steve from Australia.
Boretech Eliminator takes carbon and copper out of your bore at the same time. For me, it works better than any cleaner I have used. I've got Wipeout, Hoppes and just about every other cleaner. Try this, especially if you don't have a scope (bore scope) , clean your bore with your favorite cleaner, then use Eliminator and see what happens.
Since Boretech also has specific products for different tasks, I suspect Eliminator could be a bit jack of all trades-product. That being said, I also use Eliminator and it has done what I need it to do.
@@jpenna1976 I think Eliminator came out after their Copper remover and Carbon remover, not positive tho, because I pirchased those before I ever heard about Eliminator. That said, I know there are some people who like to do the separate steps of removal and both of those previous products actually will remove some of the other residue.....just not all. Like I said above, I have used so many cleaning products and then ran Eliminator afterwards only to find my barrels were not clean. I use Eliminator exclusively and recommend it to everyone who asks.
@@kokonanana1 That's good to know, I have almost full bottles of both that haven't been used since I started with Eliminator. Thanks for that info. I also quit using a cleaning rod since I started using Boretech, I've been using weed eater line, a trick learned from .22 lr shooters. I run five wet patches and let it sit for few hours, then dry patches until clean and repeat until the wet patches come out clean. Usually only takes 3 rounds, even on some of my roughest bores.
I use CLR on both Krieger and Brux stainless steel barrels.....NO Damage what-so-ever to the barrels.....works well.....Don’t pay heed to what “They” say....Erik is dead on!
Love your humility and expert knowledge, based on your professional experience. Those who choose to not listen are ignorant and choose not to learn. By the way, I just cleared out some space on my bench for a bore scope. When you upgrade and feel generous, I will free up your clutter, no problem. Keep up the great content.
Man, thank you so much for the heads up on that Teslong bore scope. I didn't think I could get that kind of quality unless I spent almost a grand. I'll be ordering one ASAP so I can give myself an aneurysm the first time I look in my barrels!
I've "fixed" so many gun barrels by cleaning them properly. It seems so many people are afraid to use brushes or strong solvents, they just hoppes patch the barrel a couple times and call it clean. I've never used a carbon remover and horribly fouled barrels were quite a chore. I just scrubbed them with motor oil and a bushed till I could not feel the fouling, then used a copper solvent. Im mostly rimfire these days but that's interesting. Im glad you mentioned the layers of carbon. I discovered this before I had a bore scope because I would check if the bore was clean after scrubbing. Id come back with a copper solvent and find more copper. I always wondered if it was from the brush. No guessing with the bore scope.
Yes, but it will eat bluing right off it. Don't get it on chrome or aluminum either. If you find a way to get it in the bore and not on any of the bluing, it will be fine.
I started using CLR on my carbon steel, 2 groove, Nov of 1943 barrel. I start with a Cooper cleaner, then oil patch it clean, than I follow that up with CLR, than follow that up with a regular oil patch. It's amazing all the gunk that comes out.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 Thanks for asking! I actually switched to Boretech Eliminator now. Now I only have to use one cleaner...and Boretech Eliminator works amazing!! I didn't realize how awesome that stuff worked until I started using my borescope.
HOPPE"S ELITE Bore Gel works as advertised, when a patch comes out black with copper flakes all over it, there is no denying that it works as advertised.
Bore Tech Carbon Remover. After finishing with Hoppes Black Copper Cleaner, no brushes and swab drying the barrel. I ordered Bore Tech Carbon Remover and 2 days later I spent about 1 hr. removing heavy carbon deposits. The Copper Remover works great too.
I have several muzzle brakes that mate with a can and they end up looking like a piece of Kingsford charcoal after a day at the river. I was willing to sacrifice one for the test, soaked it in CLR and minutes later it came out looking brand new. Simple as that. CLR works. Thanks, Erik!
I saw this video a week ago and decided to try it and it usually takes me 2 days of soaking the break just to start loosening up the carbon , well magic 20 min of soaking left the break cleaner than my soaking ever did and a heck of a lot less time I wanted to say thank you for the video i also loved that it worked and cost me 1/3 the cost of my normal cleaning products .
Great job Eric! Thank you very much for the work and time you put into your videos, you produce the very best RUclips videos related to the shooting and reloading info I like to watch. Keep up the great work and may all your shots be exactly where you want them to go! lol
Exactly! Until you get a bore scope, run a patch wet with of CLR down the barrel of a rifle you believe is clean, just keep some Kleenex handy to dry those eyes. I've tried the products you mentioned as well as CLR and many others, they do indeed all work, they will turn a rag or patch black with carbon, but not like CLR. Try it on an the carbon deposits on an AR bolt.
I do very little barrel cleaning. I may only put 5 patches wet, dry and I don't try to remove every bit of copper. I don't even try to get a clean white patch.
Thanks Erik. I just ordered a Teslong bore scope. I have a Hawkeye borescope; It cost me nearly $100 dollars to get the mirror at the end of the scope resurfaced, been very timid about using it after that expense. Excited about getting this digital scope - as you said, for the cost, there is no excuse not to have one. I had never looked for a digital bore scope because I figured it would likely cost as much, or more, than the Hawkeye cost (and I don't even have the smaller tube or angle eyepiece for he hawkeye).
Keep doing what you're doing Erik, you've been putting out videos on stuff I've done for a long time and people called me crazy. Now I can point them to you as evidence since you're far more qualified as a subject matter expert than I am.
AJ from Arkansas here. Went out to the range to shoot some groups and ran into James Haney getting set up for Nationals. Told him I watch your videos and use some of your reloading techniques. He backed you up on all of them. Really good guy. Did not know you guys were on the USA Rifle team together. Anyways told James to tell you I said wassup at the Nationals. Good luck sir!!
I love the CLR idea. I’m just mad your video came out after I bought the A419 nitrided brake. Good news for your sponsor. I just picked up some patch out and accelerator. 👍
I agree on the bore scope. I thought i knew how to clean a barrel until i bought one, as far as the CLR, i'll try it and see if it works for me, i appreciate the suggestion.
Ok, i have a question - does cleaning the barrel actually help? Have you done any testing comparing cleaning vs not cleaning? I religiously clean the barrel of my AK because it's non-chrome lined and most of the ammo is corrosive. But on my sniper rifle i only lightly clean the barrel with a patch and little gun oil and then wipe it completely dry. The thing is that i've noticed no POI change, zero shift or change in cold bore shot if i just lightly swipe the barrel or even leave it dirty after a low round count. If i clean the barrel thoroughly, sometimes my cold bore shot and POI change. So on my sniper rifle i started practicing minimal bore cleaning with great results and no drop in accuracy. I'm doing this for about 3 years now but i have a low average round count per range trip (40-60) and i don't shoot with my sniper rifle that often.
@@kevind716 I remember some guy, who claimed that you should never change the oil in your car, as used oil contain a particles of graphite which will lubricate you engine more effectively. Not sure how many people have listened to him, but I believe some of the people surely did.
It all these guys not ever Doing anything,judging guys who are not only doing it but have the courage to put themselves out there to try and help others. Forget the haters
I use Hondalock 2 instead of locktight. I use aeroshell 22 or 33 for grease when building. I use motor oil for lube. I use CLP to break carbon. A rifle and a car engine does the same thing.. controlled explosions and results in high friction. The only difference is a car engine projects the vehicle, while a riffle projects a projectile.
A friend of mine cleans carbon with easy off oven cleaner. If the barrel seems to be burned out and nothing gets it clean, he has restored the accuracy of a few with easy off.
I've been using WipeOut/PatchOut for years and it works. About every fourth or fifth cleaning exclusively with PatchOut, I use the bronze brush/ShootersChoice method as a follow-up to remove any fouling left behind. I use CLR in an ultra sonic for cleaning my suppressors to like-new condition. In my experience CLR can attack carbon steel (discoloration). Your recommendation to try a test piece first is sound.
Thanks I just bought a jug of CLR for our 9mm handgun comps that I have been cleaning with 50% vinegar and 50% hydrogen peroxide this is for comps only and yes it eats the bluing but for me it has been the best at cleaning the pain in the ass to clean comps. See what works exactly
Propelyne glycol does buffer the acids against attacking steel, but it does still cause brittle cracking of the surface with the sulfamic acid. If I was you I would use simple green or purple power cleaner and an ultrasonic tank, and have a second ultra sonic rinse and IPA dry for the ultimate clean without any changes to your substrate.
I have just dropped aluminium, stainless and mild steel in a cup of CLR to see if the non stainless get damaged. Think about it in terms of exposure though. If carbon steel is soaked in CLR for 10 minutes then the CLR neautralised, how much damage can it really do?
24 hours, no change to the aluminium, the carbon steel is also unchanged bar the protective coating that is applied at manufacturing is starting to flake off, the stainless is now very shiny
At about 2.5 days soaking there is slight damage to the carbon steel. And none to the aluminium. I'm happy to send a couple of photos to shoot you if you like
I'll give it a try on my non match rifles they never clean like my bench barrels. I use Kroil 2 wet wait 5-10 minutes depending on total sighters shot then Butch's with brush 10 strokes followed by Butch's on patch 3 times then 2 dry followed by one with Rem oil then one dry. I do this after every two relay's work's great on match barrels but we don't put as many rounds though as F-class before switching to new barrels. Always have to use Sweets or Wipeout in hunting barrels and AK platforms to get copper and carbon out. Thanks for the tip 👍
Erik, can you please do a video on your complete brass prep of new brass. Showing every step in detail and then one on fired brass. If not is there another RUclips you would recommend me watch? Thanks in advance.
Good vid Erik, you really opened my eyes about bore cleaning. I'm gonna get one of those bore scopes ASAP......It's not magic just trial and error and input from reputable sources. Thanks
get the teslong 36 inch flex so u don't have to move around to the muzzle,,,they can be used for many things...drill a hole in your case chk for neck length to chamber,,,,chk dies, ears. teeth,
The pH of CLR is about the same as lime juice. Between 2pH-2.4ph. You can actually buy food grade 88% lactic acid at brew shops. Lactic acid is the primary rust remover in CLR but the SDS lists it between 5-18%. That is a huge range as far as acidity is concerned. Will that pH hurt bluing...maybe but i dont think it will hurt a 4140 barrel. It is a good idea to keep it away from the bluing just like with any acid.
I tried CLR on a very caked up 9mm PCC and did almost nothing for me, Tried Otis foaming bore cleaner, seemed better, and then I used KG 12 to remove copper then KG 1 & 2 for carbon all the while vigorously brushing. That did the trick for me.
Look into Carburetor Dip, it comes in one-gallon cans and is cheap enough. It cleans the burnt on carbon off of engine pistons in less than 20 minutes. Is it safe to use on your gun's finish??? I don't know.
Look on Amazon, they have one from a company called "Teslong". They come in various types from semi-flexible to solid rod, you can get a wifi one or a straight USB one. I originally bought the wifi one as their site says it can also be used by just plugging into your PC with the USB, but it doesn't really work. Yes, the camera will come on, but the lights do not (and there is no way to control the lights), so it is useless. I sent it back and just got the USB only one (it has a small dial on the cable to control light brightness). If you want to use it on an iPhone or iPad, you have to get the wifi one, but it will also work with Android. I wanted to use mine on my desktop PC and my laptop, so that's why I ended up with the USB only one. I also went with the semi-flexible as it coils up in a nice little case (i.e. I can take it to the range with me easily). The wifi one is $69, the USB only one is $45. The solid rod versions are a little more expensive. They also offer a mirror end kit that comes with the mirror ferrules sized for 4 different calibers (12.7mm, 9mm, 30 caliber, and 22 caliber). That kit was $19.99 and well worth the price. Keeps the camera centered in the bore so there are no focus issues. Look up reviews of it here on YT. Very nice scope for the price.
Hi Erik, I dont know if CLR is corrosive, but I'm impressed to see how F-Class shooting burns barrels ! There are some videos on other F-Class channels showing the inside of their barrel and it's just the same (cracking). I guess it is caused by the fast firing rate. Hopefully this kind of damage doesn't necessary affect the accuracy but it's impressive. I've seen some heavy corrosion (pitting) in some of my barrels that keep on shooting well...
"Unless you are neck sizing" That made me laugh. A month ago I would have and did disagree with you BUT I always keep an open mind and rather than whine like a girl I tried the method you went over. I now 100% agree as I no longer get those wayward flyers I could never get rid of in the past. Yes, my groups opened up a little UNTIL I went back through my charge weight's and seating depth (Again, thank you for the information on that) and finding my depth nodes. My groups are back WITHOUT the flyers. Now I just have to focus and tighten them up even more. Keep an open mind folks, just because that is how you have always done it does not make it the best way. There is always room for improvement.
I got one recently also. I was very impressed with the quality of the video irrelevant of the price but if you consider the price it is really incredible. Very good value.
I have a lot of old surplus rifles, its amazing how well plain old warm water and dish soap work to get the carbon and filth out. Then as you do I will chase out the copper. I have inexpensive bore scope and its better than nothing. It lacks the 90’ view. As far as CLR , just be careful thats all. People think im nuts cleaning my bored with soap and water. For my other guns , I really like gun slick foam bore cleaner and for copper , seeets or Montana Copper killer. Keep up the vids , good dtuff
M-Pro 7 and Butch's Bore shine have worked great for me for years. My first question when people bring up "They" is who exactly is "They". If you cannot tell me then I am not worried about it.
Okay, you convinced us to buy a bore scope… any chance you can do a video explaining what we are looking at? Especially when it comes to acceptable levels of wear, cracking, throat erosion, etc. Maybe compare a nicely broken in barrel to one that is at the end of its useful/accurate life? Great videos btw. Learning so much!
Video is on the members area of my website. www.shootsmallgroups.com/community/eriks-forum/step-by-step-barrel-cleaning-verified-with-borescope-after-each-step/#post-912
CLR works great on my stainless brakes. Best I've found. Haven't tried in my barrel, but I plan on it. It did fade my Nitride coated brake, but i left it in over night, and made it a pretty slick copper color. Doesn't bother me at all. I put my stainless brake in a glass jar with CLR, and then sit it in my ultrasonic cleaner after it's been soaking for a few hours. Ultrasonic really knocks the last little bit off.
You can fix that by soaking your brake in copper solvent. The rosey red color is just the dissolved copper that the clr originally exposed when the clr liquid dissolved the carbon. The copper has basically chemically plated itself to the outside of your brake, easy fix.
@@kip6006 I used the bore tech copper solvent when it happened to me. Eliminator should work too. I remember having to scrub mine a little, it was tenacious.
CLR keeps my shower heads squeaky clean. For everything else..... I use Elbow Grease. Elbow Grease keeps my wheels shiny, my toilets spotless and my refridgerator smelling like a field of roses. Why use anything else? Elbow Grease, now in the new Salsa Scent. Now... can we discuss long range shooting, or something?
Been using CLR since I watched this video a year ago. Yep, it works. THE grain of salt here is bluing. Blued steel is essentially rust it will remove it or at least partially. :-}
Erik just watched you video on using CLR and instead of soaking the break for 24Hrs have you tried using it with a sonic cleaner? I would think between the CLR and the vibrations of the cleaner it would cut your clean time way down. Just a thought......really enjoy your videos with I was 50 yrs younger I would show you how it was DONE! I can relate to the conversation with Speedy of back in the day all the expense and training that went into win the state and national matches and all you got from it was a few pieces of sterling silver spoons, knifes and forks and an At-A-Boy from the NRA. It was fun and the bragging rights you had around the area was worth it at the time! Again really like watching your videos it takes me back.
Good video. I will start using CLR on my stainless barrels now. Should save a lot of time and effort. If I had an old regular carbon steel barrel that was worn out, I would test CLR on it to see what happens. If you have an old one, it would make for a good video to do the test and show the bore scope results after. 😉
Just another thought, for all those interested. Pull a MSDS on any of your cleaning products and compare to others. CLR is different acids and a surfactant......like all the others. Most is just rebranded/renamed or just a different blend Fun stuff
I used CLR on my stainless AR10 barrel and it worked great. I just used it on my weatherby and in 15min it completely removed bluing in large spots on the exterior 😭. CLR will completely destroy bluing but it does work great on carbon
Like you said do what works for you. I’ve been using carb out and VFG cleaning pellets for some time and it works for me. Definitely gonna try some CLR next time.
To each their own, I have tried just about every bore cleaner out there, the one that I like the best is Bore Tech Eliminator, fantastic stuff and guess what ....... its made for guns.
CLR removes calcium lime and rust. The bluing on some guns is black oxide...aka black rust and will be removed from CLR. I have seen it discolor, and etch some stainless steels... not gun barrels but i have not tried it.
What's all the drama for? I've never viewed carbon removal as a problem. I used RB-17 BORE GEL for years, until it seemed to not be available. Switched to Mpro7. Still no sweat removing carbon. I've always viewed copper build up as the real issue. So I added some JB bore brite and Kroil on match barrels. For routine cleaning tasks, I break out the PROSHOT products. Cripes, it seems hard to find a product that doesnt work. I dont see much reason for CLR except maybe to save some cash on these products. However, I dont see any way around a good copper remover.
For me shooting 1 or 2 "fouling shots" avoids flyers in my first group. My 6.5 CM barrel seems to foul way faster than my 308 (more pressure+friction ?). It's very difficult to get consistent accuracy with it because of the carbon that builds up fast in the first 10 inches after the chamber.
There’s no excuse to not have a bore scope , these Teslong bore scopes should be something every shooter can afford to purchase. I still use the Sweets 7.62 to get the copper fouling out of my barrels , that stuff works fast , but I make sure to not leave it in the barrel for more than 10 to 15 minute and then I dry out the barrel and spray plenty of rust preventative in the bore .
On the weekends do you clean off your picnic table and have picnics in the shop on bad weather days? That is an interesting idea for a work bench if you have the room.
What sucks is being suckered out of money that you could be saving toward your next new barrel or load development, or... From a scientific aspect, CLR is quite mild compared to other carbon cleaners. CLR is about 12.00% Lactic Acid which is an acid that accumulates in the human skeletal muscles as a result of physical stress, such as working out. So, it's pretty mild but very effective at what it can do as an aqueous solvent. I have a stainless barrel and have 0% concern that CLR will attack the metal. I'm going to try it and I do have a borescope and will see positive results at a bargain. Up until now, I have been using 50% tranny fluid and 50% Acetone and it also works amazingly well but is quite aggressive. I'll give it a shot Erik and thank you!
what is your opinion on Kroil alone vs Kroil with JB Bore Paste vs using them both with VFG pellets Super or white felt Thanks for all the hard work to put this info out
And demonetized... 🤷♂️
"They" demonitized you huh?
Do they tell you why or allow you to rebuttal the decision?
RUclips sucks
That sucks. Guess some soyboy thought it was icky because it talks about manly things.
What!? Why? I dont understand youtube. Your videos are nothing but informative and educational. There are way worse things on RUclips
This may be the first time im thankful for some ignorant person or persons not taking responsibility for his or her actions. Thank you Eric for another very educational update. You sure been a blessing an mentor.
0:17 stainless steel and 4140 both has very low percentage of carbon in them.
The CLR is removing the carbon that has built up in the rifling, not effecting the chemical bonds of the atoms in the steel itself.
Thank you. if it were that easy to manipulate the chemical composition off your alloy, no gun would work longer than a few shots (if at all) and people would rather go to war with stones on sticks.
Do you have SEM or TEM images to back that up? I have seen enough to know CLR does effect the surface.
rydplrs, I take it you’re likely a materials engineer or a tribology analyst. If I’m not mistake, you raised a point about stress cracking of CLR on bare high carbon steel. I’d like to see any Ra measurements from a surface trace before and after being subjected to CLR. Granted, I would think this would be heavily dependent on the residence time of the acid in contact with the surface. I would be highly doubtful if it has any describable influence on fatigue life of a barrel, or any quantifiable influence on the asperity contact interface between the copper jacket and the lands.
Also, if we consider the design life of a competition match barrel of ~2000 rounds, practically I think there could likely be more favorable benefits of a cleaner barrel with potentially increasing surface asperities, than a barrel with carbon build up.
I could be mistaken in my thought process, and I’m always open to learning more, and please set me straight if you have data indicating otherwise. Thanks!
@@BurnDuration I’ve done semiconductor process engineering for 20 years with part of that being part cleaning procedures. I don’t think you would see a difference in Ra, even with an AFM. Ra was only measured on parts that were physically resurfaced. you would see it in SEM images.
As for the differences in performance or barrel life I don’t know if it would be measurable, just that CLR is not a best practice for cleaning steel without having any effect the substrate. I look at it like racing, you do everything possible using best practices, and occasionally those very small differences will make the difference between winning and losing.
Sorry, I work with a lot of 4140/4145 , both are high carbon steel with a high Crome content, but your right CLR in your barrel is not going to affect it in the least ✌🏼
Dude, you are so humble and provide great information. It's obvious you just want to help people and the sport. Thank you, I have learned a ton from your videos
Your videos are the highlight of my day. It is so rare to see an experienced person who has so much knowledge willing to share it and do it the way you do. There is so much worthless garbage out there today. Erik we think alike. I’m a machinist/technician/mechanic/programmer/ and very amateur reloader. I like the way you think and use common sense. Do things that get results and measure it or verify it somehow. I’m from Texas too!
This guy can hit a Gnat's ass at 1000 yards. Also his rifles are probably worth thousands. Why would he use a product that would damage his rifle's bore?
Because barrels are disposable. Some shooters get new barrels every 3000 rounds or so. They just get it clean however they can knowing they'll swap it out soon.
Thanks for the video Erik. It would be great, if you could do a video on "reading" the borescope. How carbon fouling/carbon ring looks like. What level of fire cracking is still ok and when the barrel is toast etc...
Great request.
Erik, Received the same model of Teslong Bore Scope last Friday. Operating it is great and now can tell how my cleaning process is going. Thanks for all the videos and info.
Tested on chromoly and ss barrels. Works very well. Thank-you for the tip👍👍
The thing about CLR is that it's an acid. Wiping it out with alcohol will not get it out. There needs to be some neutralizing going on such as some kind of an alkaline solution. Get the carbon out...yup, tough on barrels...yup. Maybe not so bad for stainless but on carbon steel barrels, I'm not doin' it. The Teslong is the Nuts!
Hi again Erik
I gave CLR a try on a section of a canon steel blued barrel it removed every trace of carbon with no damage to the barrel or the bluing , The procedure I used was 50/50 CLR and warm water squirted into the barrel , rotate the barrel so you get a full cover inside the barrel let it sit for about 15 minutes run a nylon brush through about 15 times from back to front then patch it out until the patches are as clean as you can get them , then run 4 Ballistol soaked parches through and 4 dry patches to remove any excess Ballistol , the Ballistol treatment is important to prevent rust forming as the CLR removes everything that lubricates the barrel , it worked perfect for me and had absolutely no side effects , I hope that clearers up any confusion or doubts people may have about this procedure I would love to see your and your viewers comments on this Kind Regards Steve from Australia.
I took your advice on the Patch-Out and accelerator. I thought how and what I used in the past worked. Boy was I wrong!
*Ive used CLR on anodized aluminum and SS. Works great cleaning suppressor baffles*
Wow. Demonetized. Ridiculous. Your are so informative and straight forward.
Boretech Eliminator takes carbon and copper out of your bore at the same time. For me, it works better than any cleaner I have used.
I've got Wipeout, Hoppes and just about every other cleaner.
Try this, especially if you don't have a scope (bore scope) , clean your bore with your favorite cleaner, then use Eliminator and see what happens.
Since Boretech also has specific products for different tasks, I suspect Eliminator could be a bit jack of all trades-product. That being said, I also use Eliminator and it has done what I need it to do.
@@jpenna1976
I think Eliminator came out after their Copper remover and Carbon remover, not positive tho, because I pirchased those before I ever heard about Eliminator.
That said, I know there are some people who like to do the separate steps of removal and both of those previous products actually will remove some of the other residue.....just not all.
Like I said above, I have used so many cleaning products and then ran Eliminator afterwards only to find my barrels were not clean.
I use Eliminator exclusively and recommend it to everyone who asks.
@@theunofficialresults231
World record BR shooter in our club spoke with Bore Tech staff. He now uses a50/50 mix of carbon and copper cleaners.
@@kokonanana1
That's good to know, I have almost full bottles of both that haven't been used since I started with Eliminator.
Thanks for that info.
I also quit using a cleaning rod since I started using Boretech, I've been using weed eater line, a trick learned from .22 lr shooters.
I run five wet patches and let it sit for few hours, then dry patches until clean and repeat until the wet patches come out clean. Usually only takes 3 rounds, even on some of my roughest bores.
@@theunofficialresults231
How do you use weed eater line?
I use CLR on both Krieger and Brux stainless steel barrels.....NO Damage what-so-ever to the barrels.....works well.....Don’t pay heed to what “They” say....Erik is dead on!
Saving for bore scope
Love your humility and expert knowledge, based on your professional experience. Those who choose to not listen are ignorant and choose not to learn. By the way, I just cleared out some space on my bench for a bore scope. When you upgrade and feel generous, I will free up your clutter, no problem. Keep up the great content.
Man, thank you so much for the heads up on that Teslong bore scope. I didn't think I could get that kind of quality unless I spent almost a grand. I'll be ordering one ASAP so I can give myself an aneurysm the first time I look in my barrels!
I've "fixed" so many gun barrels by cleaning them properly. It seems so many people are afraid to use brushes or strong solvents, they just hoppes patch the barrel a couple times and call it clean. I've never used a carbon remover and horribly fouled barrels were quite a chore. I just scrubbed them with motor oil and a bushed till I could not feel the fouling, then used a copper solvent. Im mostly rimfire these days but that's interesting.
Im glad you mentioned the layers of carbon. I discovered this before I had a bore scope because I would check if the bore was clean after scrubbing. Id come back with a copper solvent and find more copper. I always wondered if it was from the brush. No guessing with the bore scope.
CLR isnt going to damage a carbon steel barrel anymore or any less than any carbon solvent
Yes, but it will eat bluing right off it. Don't get it on chrome or aluminum either. If you find a way to get it in the bore and not on any of the bluing, it will be fine.
Sir, refreshing to watch a true professional.
Thanks for your input Erik. Unlike EVERYONE else, I don’t know EVERYTHING, so your knowledge is very valuable information.
I started using CLR on my carbon steel, 2 groove, Nov of 1943 barrel. I start with a Cooper cleaner, then oil patch it clean, than I follow that up with CLR, than follow that up with a regular oil patch. It's amazing all the gunk that comes out.
Any issues a year later?
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 Thanks for asking! I actually switched to Boretech Eliminator now. Now I only have to use one cleaner...and Boretech Eliminator works amazing!! I didn't realize how awesome that stuff worked until I started using my borescope.
I always get a ton out of your videos! You've given me a lot of great ideas to try over the years. Keep it up! Best wishes for 2022, Erik!
On the CLR website it states it's safe for Stainless steel.
HOPPE"S ELITE Bore Gel works as advertised, when a patch comes out black with copper flakes all over it, there is no denying that it works as advertised.
Bore Tech Carbon Remover. After finishing with Hoppes Black Copper Cleaner, no brushes and swab drying the barrel. I ordered Bore Tech Carbon Remover and 2 days later I spent about 1 hr. removing heavy carbon deposits. The Copper Remover works great too.
unrelated to CLR....sir - compliments to you - you have the cleanest, most well organized, laid out shop ever....
I have several muzzle brakes that mate with a can and they end up looking like a piece of Kingsford charcoal after a day at the river. I was willing to sacrifice one for the test, soaked it in CLR and minutes later it came out looking brand new. Simple as that. CLR works. Thanks, Erik!
I know… late to the party… just got my teslong borescope… WOW… game changer! Thanks for the advice Erik.
I saw this video a week ago and decided to try it and it usually takes me 2 days of soaking the break just to start loosening up the carbon , well magic 20 min of soaking left the break cleaner than my soaking ever did and a heck of a lot less time I wanted to say thank you for the video i also loved that it worked and cost me 1/3 the cost of my normal cleaning products .
I really hope you one day post a video of how to do a deep clean on your barrel and chamber.
Thanks Eric. Good stuff. Always a learning opportunity from your videos.
You forgot your new outro lol. Nice work. Keep doing what you do.
Great job Eric! Thank you very much for the work and time you put into your videos, you produce the very best RUclips videos related to the shooting and reloading info I like to watch. Keep up the great work and may all your shots be exactly where you want them to go! lol
Exactly! Until you get a bore scope, run a patch wet with of CLR down the barrel of a rifle you believe is clean, just keep some Kleenex handy to dry those eyes.
I've tried the products you mentioned as well as CLR and many others, they do indeed all work, they will turn a rag or patch black with carbon, but not like CLR. Try it on an the carbon deposits on an AR bolt.
I do very little barrel cleaning. I may only put 5 patches wet, dry and I don't try to remove every bit of copper. I don't even try to get a clean white patch.
Thanks for your time
Thanks Erik. I just ordered a Teslong bore scope. I have a Hawkeye borescope; It cost me nearly $100 dollars to get the mirror at the end of the scope resurfaced, been very timid about using it after that expense. Excited about getting this digital scope - as you said, for the cost, there is no excuse not to have one. I had never looked for a digital bore scope because I figured it would likely cost as much, or more, than the Hawkeye cost (and I don't even have the smaller tube or angle eyepiece for he hawkeye).
Keep doing what you're doing Erik, you've been putting out videos on stuff I've done for a long time and people called me crazy. Now I can point them to you as evidence since you're far more qualified as a subject matter expert than I am.
AJ from Arkansas here. Went out to the range to shoot some groups and ran into James Haney getting set up for Nationals. Told him I watch your videos and use some of your reloading techniques. He backed you up on all of them. Really good guy. Did not know you guys were on the USA Rifle team together. Anyways told James to tell you I said wassup at the Nationals. Good luck sir!!
😉💪😁
Great content and delivery. Thanks alot.
I love the CLR idea. I’m just mad your video came out after I bought the A419 nitrided brake.
Good news for your sponsor. I just picked up some patch out and accelerator. 👍
I agree on the bore scope. I thought i knew how to clean a barrel until i bought one, as far as the CLR, i'll try it and see if it works for me, i appreciate the suggestion.
Ok, i have a question - does cleaning the barrel actually help?
Have you done any testing comparing cleaning vs not cleaning?
I religiously clean the barrel of my AK because it's non-chrome lined and most of the ammo is corrosive.
But on my sniper rifle i only lightly clean the barrel with a patch and little gun oil and then wipe it completely dry.
The thing is that i've noticed no POI change, zero shift or change in cold bore shot if i just lightly swipe the barrel or even leave it dirty after a low round count.
If i clean the barrel thoroughly, sometimes my cold bore shot and POI change.
So on my sniper rifle i started practicing minimal bore cleaning with great results and no drop in accuracy.
I'm doing this for about 3 years now but i have a low average round count per range trip (40-60) and i don't shoot with my sniper rifle that often.
Yes, proven over and over that clean barrels shoot better. BR shooters clean every 15-20 rounds for that reason.
I remember seeing toborasaurusrex saying that he never cleaned his barrels
@@kevind716 I dont think rex is a bench rest shooter.
@@kevind716 I remember some guy, who claimed that you should never change the oil in your car, as used oil contain a particles of graphite which will lubricate you engine more effectively. Not sure how many people have listened to him, but I believe some of the people surely did.
“Sniper Rifle”..... Lol
It all these guys not ever Doing anything,judging guys who are not only doing it but have the courage to put themselves out there to try and help others. Forget the haters
I use Hondalock 2 instead of locktight. I use aeroshell 22 or 33 for grease when building. I use motor oil for lube. I use CLP to break carbon.
A rifle and a car engine does the same thing.. controlled explosions and results in high friction. The only difference is a car engine projects the vehicle, while a riffle projects a projectile.
Erik, CLR worked for me, and I also have the Teslong bore scope which is gold! Appreciate your advice!
A friend of mine cleans carbon with easy off oven cleaner. If the barrel seems to be burned out and nothing gets it clean, he has restored the accuracy of a few with easy off.
Slip 2000 Carbon Killer is another good one.
I have been using slim 2000 for a while
Yes it is !
I really like slip 2000 also
I've been using WipeOut/PatchOut for years and it works. About every fourth or fifth cleaning exclusively with PatchOut, I use the bronze brush/ShootersChoice method as a follow-up to remove any fouling left behind. I use CLR in an ultra sonic for cleaning my suppressors to like-new condition. In my experience CLR can attack carbon steel (discoloration). Your recommendation to try a test piece first is sound.
Thanks I just bought a jug of CLR for our 9mm handgun comps that I have been cleaning with 50% vinegar and 50% hydrogen peroxide this is for comps only and yes it eats the bluing but for me it has been the best at cleaning the pain in the ass to clean comps. See what works exactly
Propelyne glycol does buffer the acids against attacking steel, but it does still cause brittle cracking of the surface with the sulfamic acid.
If I was you I would use simple green or purple power cleaner and an ultrasonic tank, and have a second ultra sonic rinse and IPA dry for the ultimate clean without any changes to your substrate.
I have just dropped aluminium, stainless and mild steel in a cup of CLR to see if the non stainless get damaged. Think about it in terms of exposure though. If carbon steel is soaked in CLR for 10 minutes then the CLR neautralised, how much damage can it really do?
6 hours sitting in clr. No visible. Change to any metal
24 hours, no change to the aluminium, the carbon steel is also unchanged bar the protective coating that is applied at manufacturing is starting to flake off, the stainless is now very shiny
At about 2.5 days soaking there is slight damage to the carbon steel. And none to the aluminium. I'm happy to send a couple of photos to shoot you if you like
Thank you.
I'll give it a try on my non match rifles they never clean like my bench barrels. I use Kroil 2 wet wait 5-10 minutes depending on total sighters shot then Butch's with brush 10 strokes followed by Butch's on patch 3 times then 2 dry followed by one with Rem oil then one dry. I do this after every two relay's work's great on match barrels but we don't put as many rounds though as F-class before switching to new barrels. Always have to use Sweets or Wipeout in hunting barrels and AK platforms to get copper and carbon out. Thanks for the tip 👍
Erik, can you please do a video on your complete brass prep of new brass. Showing every step in detail and then one on fired brass. If not is there another RUclips you would recommend me watch? Thanks in advance.
Good vid Erik, you really opened my eyes about bore cleaning. I'm gonna get one of those bore scopes ASAP......It's not magic just trial and error and input from reputable sources. Thanks
get the teslong 36 inch flex so u don't have to move around to the muzzle,,,they can be used for many things...drill a hole in your case chk for neck length to chamber,,,,chk dies, ears. teeth,
isso or J&B will cleaN better than anything or Montana bore cream
Thanks again Eric !
Thanks Boss! Appreciate the wisdom!
The pH of CLR is about the same as lime juice. Between 2pH-2.4ph. You can actually buy food grade 88% lactic acid at brew shops. Lactic acid is the primary rust remover in CLR but the SDS lists it between 5-18%. That is a huge range as far as acidity is concerned. Will that pH hurt bluing...maybe but i dont think it will hurt a 4140 barrel. It is a good idea to keep it away from the bluing just like with any acid.
Hot soapy water, Paul Harrell 2020
On the actual bore he used hopped #9 I think...
I tried CLR on a very caked up 9mm PCC and did almost nothing for me, Tried Otis foaming bore cleaner, seemed better, and then I used KG 12 to remove copper then KG 1 & 2 for carbon all the while vigorously brushing. That did the trick for me.
Look into Carburetor Dip, it comes in one-gallon cans and is cheap enough. It cleans the burnt on carbon off of engine pistons in less than 20 minutes. Is it safe to use on your gun's finish??? I don't know.
For a bad carbon problem I use automotive carburetor or intake cleaner. Just don't get it on paint.
Just seeing this almost a year after it was uploaded and you convinced me to buy a borescope. Thank you.
Look on Amazon, they have one from a company called "Teslong". They come in various types from semi-flexible to solid rod, you can get a wifi one or a straight USB one. I originally bought the wifi one as their site says it can also be used by just plugging into your PC with the USB, but it doesn't really work. Yes, the camera will come on, but the lights do not (and there is no way to control the lights), so it is useless. I sent it back and just got the USB only one (it has a small dial on the cable to control light brightness). If you want to use it on an iPhone or iPad, you have to get the wifi one, but it will also work with Android. I wanted to use mine on my desktop PC and my laptop, so that's why I ended up with the USB only one. I also went with the semi-flexible as it coils up in a nice little case (i.e. I can take it to the range with me easily). The wifi one is $69, the USB only one is $45. The solid rod versions are a little more expensive.
They also offer a mirror end kit that comes with the mirror ferrules sized for 4 different calibers (12.7mm, 9mm, 30 caliber, and 22 caliber). That kit was $19.99 and well worth the price. Keeps the camera centered in the bore so there are no focus issues.
Look up reviews of it here on YT. Very nice scope for the price.
Hi Erik, I dont know if CLR is corrosive, but I'm impressed to see how F-Class shooting burns barrels ! There are some videos on other F-Class channels showing the inside of their barrel and it's just the same (cracking). I guess it is caused by the fast firing rate. Hopefully this kind of damage doesn't necessary affect the accuracy but it's impressive. I've seen some heavy corrosion (pitting) in some of my barrels that keep on shooting well...
"Unless you are neck sizing" That made me laugh. A month ago I would have and did disagree with you BUT I always keep an open mind and rather than whine like a girl I tried the method you went over. I now 100% agree as I no longer get those wayward flyers I could never get rid of in the past. Yes, my groups opened up a little UNTIL I went back through my charge weight's and seating depth (Again, thank you for the information on that) and finding my depth nodes. My groups are back WITHOUT the flyers. Now I just have to focus and tighten them up even more. Keep an open mind folks, just because that is how you have always done it does not make it the best way. There is always room for improvement.
Ayyy got the teslong borescope a couple months ago! Pretty damn good for the money, for once amazon reviews werent BS.
I got one recently also. I was very impressed with the quality of the video irrelevant of the price but if you consider the price it is really incredible. Very good value.
All I know is Erik favorite work is OK. Just had to throw that in there🤪. Luv ur channel…lot of insight! Keep is coming 👌
I have a lot of old surplus rifles, its amazing how well plain old warm water and dish soap work to get the carbon and filth out. Then as you do I will chase out the copper. I have inexpensive bore scope and its better than nothing. It lacks the 90’ view.
As far as CLR , just be careful thats all.
People think im nuts cleaning my bored with soap and water.
For my other guns , I really like gun slick foam bore cleaner and for copper , seeets or Montana Copper killer.
Keep up the vids , good dtuff
Mac 1911 that's what we used to clean rifles USMC 1965 to 1969. Hot soapy water then dry and light oil.
M-Pro 7 and Butch's Bore shine have worked great for me for years. My first question when people bring up "They" is who exactly is "They". If you cannot tell me then I am not worried about it.
Awesome info, keep helping us Erick. I see that little lathe , what you know about that?
😁
Okay, you convinced us to buy a bore scope… any chance you can do a video explaining what we are looking at? Especially when it comes to acceptable levels of wear, cracking, throat erosion, etc. Maybe compare a nicely broken in barrel to one that is at the end of its useful/accurate life? Great videos btw. Learning so much!
Video is on the members area of my website.
www.shootsmallgroups.com/community/eriks-forum/step-by-step-barrel-cleaning-verified-with-borescope-after-each-step/#post-912
CLR works great on my stainless brakes. Best I've found. Haven't tried in my barrel, but I plan on it. It did fade my Nitride coated brake, but i left it in over night, and made it a pretty slick copper color. Doesn't bother me at all. I put my stainless brake in a glass jar with CLR, and then sit it in my ultrasonic cleaner after it's been soaking for a few hours. Ultrasonic really knocks the last little bit off.
You can fix that by soaking your brake in copper solvent. The rosey red color is just the dissolved copper that the clr originally exposed when the clr liquid dissolved the carbon. The copper has basically chemically plated itself to the outside of your brake, easy fix.
@@skunkworx7324 Nice! I'll give that a try! thanks for the heads up! Thinks Bore Tech Eliminator is enough?
@@kip6006 I used the bore tech copper solvent when it happened to me. Eliminator should work too. I remember having to scrub mine a little, it was tenacious.
CLR keeps my shower heads squeaky clean. For everything else..... I use Elbow Grease. Elbow Grease keeps my wheels shiny, my toilets spotless and my refridgerator smelling like a field of roses. Why use anything else? Elbow Grease, now in the new Salsa Scent. Now... can we discuss long range shooting, or something?
Yes. Soon.
For reference , 416 stainless steel has carbon content of .15 maximum. A typical non-stainless barrel steel would be .40 to .50
Been using CLR since I watched this video a year ago. Yep, it works. THE grain of salt here is bluing. Blued steel is essentially rust it will remove it or at least partially. :-}
I would really appreciate a how to clean video Playlist with alternatives for blue and stainless processes.
Teslong borescope was probably the best investment I ever made in my cleaning equipment!
Erik just watched you video on using CLR and instead of soaking the break for 24Hrs have you tried using it with a sonic cleaner? I would think between the CLR and the vibrations of the cleaner it would cut your clean time way down.
Just a thought......really enjoy your videos with I was 50 yrs younger I would show you how it was DONE! I can relate to the conversation with Speedy of back in the day all the expense and training that went into win the state and national matches and all you got from it was a few pieces of sterling silver spoons, knifes and forks and an At-A-Boy from the NRA. It was fun and the bragging rights you had around the area was worth it at the time!
Again really like watching your videos it takes me back.
Good video. I will start using CLR on my stainless barrels now. Should save a lot of time and effort. If I had an old regular carbon steel barrel that was worn out, I would test CLR on it to see what happens. If you have an old one, it would make for a good video to do the test and show the bore scope results after. 😉
Just another thought, for all those interested. Pull a MSDS on any of your cleaning products and compare to others. CLR is different acids and a surfactant......like all the others. Most is just rebranded/renamed or just a different blend
Fun stuff
I used CLR on my stainless AR10 barrel and it worked great. I just used it on my weatherby and in 15min it completely removed bluing in large spots on the exterior 😭. CLR will completely destroy bluing but it does work great on carbon
Like you said do what works for you. I’ve been using carb out and VFG cleaning pellets for some time and it works for me. Definitely gonna try some CLR next time.
To each their own, I have tried just about every bore cleaner out there, the one that I like the best is Bore Tech Eliminator, fantastic stuff and guess what ....... its made for guns.
@ I think a chemical bore cleaner is a bit different than general lubes, you dont understand the difference ?
'...whatever works for you. Except Neck-Sizing, that doesn't work at all!!' That was Classic!
CLR removes calcium lime and rust. The bluing on some guns is black oxide...aka black rust and will be removed from CLR. I have seen it discolor, and etch some stainless steels... not gun barrels but i have not tried it.
What's all the drama for? I've never viewed carbon removal as a problem. I used RB-17 BORE GEL for years, until it seemed to not be available. Switched to Mpro7. Still no sweat removing carbon.
I've always viewed copper build up as the real issue. So I added some JB bore brite and Kroil on match barrels.
For routine cleaning tasks, I break out the PROSHOT products.
Cripes, it seems hard to find a product that doesnt work.
I dont see much reason for CLR except maybe to save some cash on these products. However, I dont see any way around a good copper remover.
I used clr to boil (soak) copper tube bundles. Didn't hurt them any, not sure why it would hurt steel.
CLR works fine on stainless steel.
It will also remove bluing, and dissolve aluminum
100% agree. Common sense, what works for you, not follow everyone over the cliff. Honestly great video Eric.
So is your first shot after cleaning your barrel your most accurate shot all other things aside or is the barrel more accurate after a few shots?
For me shooting 1 or 2 "fouling shots" avoids flyers in my first group. My 6.5 CM barrel seems to foul way faster than my 308 (more pressure+friction ?). It's very difficult to get consistent accuracy with it because of the carbon that builds up fast in the first 10 inches after the chamber.
There’s no excuse to not have a bore scope , these Teslong bore scopes should be something every shooter can afford to purchase. I still use the Sweets 7.62 to get the copper fouling out of my barrels , that stuff works fast , but I make sure to not leave it in the barrel for more than 10 to 15 minute and then I dry out the barrel and spray plenty of rust preventative in the bore .
What works best for me is Ed’s Red. Carbon only. Cheap effective. Look up formula on your search engine. Been using it for years.
On the weekends do you clean off your picnic table and have picnics in the shop on bad weather days?
That is an interesting idea for a work bench if you have the room.
Teslong should be sending you a check. Just ordered one from Amazon as apparently I’ve been cleaning “blind” my whole life.
What sucks is being suckered out of money that you could be saving toward your next new barrel or load development, or... From a scientific aspect, CLR is quite mild compared to other carbon cleaners. CLR is about 12.00% Lactic Acid which is an acid that accumulates in the human skeletal muscles as a result of physical stress, such as working out. So, it's pretty mild but very effective at what it can do as an aqueous solvent. I have a stainless barrel and have 0% concern that CLR will attack the metal. I'm going to try it and I do have a borescope and will see positive results at a bargain. Up until now, I have been using 50% tranny fluid and 50% Acetone and it also works amazingly well but is quite aggressive. I'll give it a shot Erik and thank you!
what is your opinion on Kroil alone vs Kroil with JB Bore Paste vs using them both with VFG pellets Super or white felt
Thanks for all the hard work to put this info out