What's great about the book is there are two Holdens. The Holden the story is happening to, and the Holden telling the story. The former is just a tragic figure, who is losing his mental health, and fails at making any connections. On the other hand the Holden who's telling us the story is frankly a triumph. He's finally succeeded in doing what he was trying to do the whole novel- getting people (meaning us) to finally listen to him. So it's actually a hopeful story. (Basically stole all this from John Green, but I love it)
The way u get into kind of perspective is just like the way u cant relate and just believe a scammer homeless girl. Let me tell u, not only holden the one who lost a brother, and suffer with mental health and struggling with society or relationship. But life is life, in the end we gotta have a purpose, or way of living, to achieve sth we really want. Not to keep GOSH DARN! GOSH DARN!
So Holden is, what we call, a "unreliable narrator", a classic literary device used to tell stories in interesting ways, and explore a character's point of view. Its a concept you'll encounter in college English classes, if you haven't already. Another important thing to remember is that kill John Lennon, I mean jus blow that fugger away, man! Its the only way to complete the odyssey Holden started, it really is.
THIS THIS THIS EXACTLY. The first time I read Catcher in the Rye was supposed to be towards the end of the year in my junior year english class, but because of Covid lockdowns, our teacher cut it from the curriculum. Because I didn’t read that much, I thought I’d check it out anyways and I couldn’t be more glad. This shit resonated with me way more than if I’d had to take chapter reading comprehension quizzes and use post it annotations and do the frankly phony “fun” assignments my teacher used to make us do. I’ve always said this that Catcher in the Rye being taught in schools is quite ironic bc it’s is a subtle critique of the school system, with (1) schools being portrayed primarily as institutions of prestige rather than leaning and (2) teachers themselves actively suppressing holden’s curiosity rather than nurturing it, favoring conformity over actual learning. To lecture kids about this lesson would be really incongruous.
My grip with Catcher In The Rye is if high school students take Holden's mentality of an edgelord with a MC complex before the end of the book. That's why I think one MUST read it twice: during adolescence and after it to see this change if they had this problem. Now, I see Holden as a teenager that needs mental health services instead of someone's breaking through conformity.
Unfortunately, I think you just have to accept the fact that some people will take the wrong lessons away from certain texts. The text might be more appropriate for an AP class
Fer christ sake, we read this book in junior high, and only ONE Beatle got shot, thats it! What a bunch of snowflakes this current generations become.....and phony's too. And how was Holden ever an edgelord? He wasn't going around trying freak people out or offend people. He was kind of an introvert, if you really wanna know the truth. And "MC Complex", whats that? I'm not even from a generation that would even know what that was. I'm really not. I agree that you get a whole new perspective from reading it after you're well beyond Holden's age. And Holden was never breaking through conformity, he was overwhelmed by it. He's really only just discovered the artificiality of the conventions we all conform to. And he was actually GETTING mental health services at the very beginning of the book, when he starts narrating the story of his odyssey to his shrink.
Funny how a lot of people responded with “I read this book in high school and it’s been my favorite ever since” or something to that effect. I totally hear what you’re saying and appreciate your argument. However, I would counter with the fact that, if not for it being assigned in school, many people would never take it upon themselves to read it and would therefore miss out on something wonderful. Also, if the teacher is doing it right, they would never discourage any opinion or interpretation and would cover and discuss most everything you eloquently discuss in your video. Plus, the good teachers now a days facilitate discussion, and don’t lead it. My best days in the classroom are when I say hardly anything because my students are doing all the talking 👍🏼
I read it on my own when I was about 13. I wasn’t expecting it to be so relatable since it was a “classic.” I didn’t overtly pick up on the themes in a direct way back then, but I sure found Holden laugh out loud funny. Especially the way he would describe things. This was in the early 1980s.
My school had us read some good classics, but i unfortunately never read this in high school and i honestly feel a bit cheated. It was one of my dad’s favorite books, but i had no clue what it was about and wasn’t really interested in reading it. My dad and i haven’t talked in 8 years, so a few years ago when i was around 20, i read it for the first time and it became my favorite book. I reread it recently now that i’m almost 24, and even that small gap of time helped me see it from a different perspective and understand things a bit more. I think this it’s one of the greats for many reasons, but a big one for me is that it can and should be read at least 2 times, at different stages of your life. When i was 20 i had no direction and was really struggling, and the loss of my dad through him basically disowning me had been tearing me up. I think i needed this book then and i need it now. I think that in times of hardship or in a place of oppression, disappointment and hurt, you should find solace, solidarity and hope in literature. This book is perfect for that and for most ages. I can understand why schools wouldn’t want students to read this, but i definitely think they should even if it’s not required
This was such a great video! I feel like people often reject Catcher in the Rye at first because they don't like Holden as a person, but I think you need to look at both sides and I agree that he spirals even further in the novel as a result of constant adult failure in his life.
Im 14 about to start high school and i just read this book on my own. This video made me rethink my opinion on the book completely. I didn’t really understand Holdens character completely in most of the book and honestly found him a bit annoying. Now i just kind of wanna give holden a hug
I love this book, and for my A-level essay (2500 words or so), an essay which made up a large chunk of my final grade, I compared the presentations of conformity in the Catcher in The Rye and The Scarlet Letter. At the top of my paper I had this quote by Robert Musil: “one most conform to the baseness of an age or become neurotic”.
I read this at age 17 for high school English in 1987., And then again at age 40. Loved it both times for different reasons. I really disagree with you. The point of reading in high school isn't to enjoy the book. It's to learn about literature, literary devices, and language. Catcher in the Rye and To Kill a Mockingbird are excellent for that. So glad I was in high school before phonies of ALL political stripe started banning/censoring them. You can argue that books are generally better enjoyed outside of an academic context, but to laser focus that notion on one book, and advocate for its removal from classrooms is strange to me. All due respect.
I read this on my own a couple of months ago and I absolutely loved the book. I asked my high school English teacher why he doesn’t teach this book and basically gave the same reasoning you gave.
We had to read “Catcher” in 12th grade and the teacher wanted to make sure we got permission from our parents to read it because it had “the f-word” in it. Lol she was a sweet old lady. Read it in high school and I thought Holden was kinda a downer. Typical morose teen. I’m in my 40s now and I don’t know how relatable it would be. I’m glad I read it when I did. Even though I still haven’t recovered from those f-words.
I actually tried to read Secret History a while back and was thrown off by the dialogue/characters that I stopped reading it and never got back into it but I could absolutely make a review about it one day! Thank you for the comment!
I read Catcher in the Rye in high school (not assigned) and I loved it. I related to Holden’s criticisms of society so much. However, I missed a lot of the signs of Holden struggling, which I only really saw when I reread it recently. The book changed from “yay bashing society” to “this poor precious child” in a matter of 2 years, and I appreciate it so much more for that. It’s so nuanced
I take your point, and it is a good one. However, I don't understand how most reviews completely fail to mention the climax of the story that takes place at the carousel in which Holden completely unwinds his critiques of adult society by juxtaposing his realization that all children must eventually be given the opportunity to learn this about the world on their own, and "if they fall off they fall off." This, The Catcher in the Rye's must crucial narrative turn is a master class in structure and zen balance as it forces perspective by modeling the moment when an iconically unique voice suddenly becomes aware of itself and holds true his sympathies and contradictions simultaneously. This lesson more than makes up for any other number of prejudicial ideas in the book, and is a particularly valuable one for students just coming to face the contradictions of the adult world themselves.
I didn't expect to be this attached to a story I've never read. I want to say thank you for making this video because it was my first introduction to this book and I'm going to read it now
i read it in high school and absolutely loved it. i get the argument though it makes sense. more of those students would have enjoyed it had they found it on their own.
It's the perfect book for helping adolescents understand and find themselves. Yes there are a lot of words that are used that people find offensive these days but those words weren't used in as an offensive way in the 1950s. You gotta look passed that, and frankly just get over it and read the damn book, it's the best ❤
Catcher is the very best thing that I have ever read on teenage alienation. On not fitting in. It's absolutely essential reading for people in their teens and early 20s. I reread it recently and it completely holds up after more than 70 years.
I accidentally found this video after I discovered I have to read The Catcher In The Rye this summer vacation . I have read this book before organically and I got so angry when I discovered our teachers chose this book for our project. I totally agree with everything you said in the video and hopefully I'll manage to write a decent paper without losing my temper or criticize the whole system:) By the way , English isn't my mother's tongue so sorry if my grammar isn't perfect
I read this as an adult I appreciated it, but then again I had no support sytem when my mother died when I was 19. I think ypu're arguement is wonderful. If I had been assigned this in highschool I wouldn't appreciate it as much. Only a few assigned stories from hs remain with me because they stick out. The Epic of Gilgamesh, Great Expectations, A Tale of 2 Cities, Ozymendias by Shelley, and Things Fall Apart.
I think you are the only guy who view holden as human who yearns for connection All the other who read the book says he just emo, immature and refuses to grow. So i liked your perspective
I read this book for the first time my senior year of highschool and i loved it because Holden felt so relatable to me. Years later i wonder often what that says about younger me.
You got a pretty good point about it not being forced in schools, dude. When I was a teen my mom wouldn't leave me alone about reading The Catcher in the Rye. When I finally read it, I understood why she kept suggesting it. It is best organically. And I can see why schools ban it too. I can also see why people hate it. Most people would rather follow the crowd. It's easier, but not necessarily the best choice. Especially these days in 2022.
Thank you so much for this analysis! I just finished the book and I was trying to process/understand Holden's perspective. Your explanation cleared everything up, and now I definitely like Holden more as a character, haha.
I read this book for the first time a few weeks ago, I am 55. I can relate to Holden in many ways. I too, would like to be a catcher in the rye, even to this day. I suppose this is because I left school and home when I was 15, parents weren’t not there mentally and I had in many ways been on my own prior to 15. I was surprised at the content whereas Salinger talks about real life people, gay, cross dressing, sex at that age etc, as most TV didn’t depict this as being around in that era, even using the “fuck you”, that era I believe for most of us in my age group was sugar coated to be the happy 50’s and everyone had the leave it to beaver mentality. My differences however are not about the “phonies” but as we have to conform weather we choose to or not, to life. This is the part i love about Holden, he catches Phoebe from the rye cliff by not letting her go with him, protecting her innocence a little longer before realizing the real world, and all the people trying to survive in it after the end of innocence.
This is my favorite book I ever read. I read it during the summer for a summer English assignment my freshman year of high school. It was the first book that I willingly decided to read twice.
I'm spanish so in highschool it's not on the list of mandatory readings, but I read it a long time ago (2011) when I was 20 and I loved it, your video just made me want to read it again, maybe this time in english! Also, I don't get the controversy about the author, it seems a lot of people hate it but I remember I enjoyed it a lot... Anyway I loved your video, new subscriber here! Greetings from Mallorca💜🏝
As another commentor mentioned, there's a difference in how one might relate to Holden when they read it in school vs reading it again years later. In highschool, Holden seems like a jerk lashing out against anyone who is unfortunate enough to listen, but now 7 years later, I can tell from the beginning that Holden is in pain. From the issues with his parents' indifference to the death of Allie; The way none if his teachers seem to actually care. I think Holden goes about his days covering up who he really is, because who he really is, is sad and depressed and lonesome, in pain. So he makes the assumption that everyone else must be doing the same. So he makes this feedback loop of bad interactions with people. He feels lonely so he tries to reach out. If they respond poorly, he gets upset and pushes back. Even if they respond well, he feels uncomfortable and still pushes back. Then he comes away from the issue unfulfilled. I see my own teenage self reflected in this book. Unfortunately i was too in my own head to see it back then. It's a great book and this is a great review. I'll be watching more of your channel!
Thank you endlessly for being the person to finally get me shut up and read it. It absolutely has no place in school, but I’d say I’m glad I didn’t read it till almost 19 years old. It may just be my personal favorite neck ever now, and I never would’ve given it the fair chance it deserved if not for you man. Thanks:)))
The first time I read this book was my senior year of high school. I feel that a lot of the books that I read outside of what I was forced to read have stayed with me far longer than they ones that were assigned reading. My school didn't assign this book to read at any level to my knowledge but I'm glad I found it when I did anyways. It was in a box that my grandfather found of his mother's who was an English professor. It was super old and he gave it to me because he knew I liked to read but I ended up buying my own newer edition because I didn't want to end up ruining it. My English teacher saw me reading it one day when I was supposed to be reading Crime and Punishment and instead of getting on to me about it she actually talked to me about it after class since I had her back to back since she was also my psychology teacher. I didn't ask her why it wasn't taught at the school, I kind of figure why as the town I'm from is very small minded when it comes to things such as having a brain and they probably banned it years ago and I just didn't know. I feel like there is a way to teach Catcher in the Rye that allows conversation between students and the teacher in a conductive manner. Probably at the 11th grade level. Kids are introduced to things at such a young level compared to previous generations and it's something I don't think the older generations realize. I know I was introduced to things at a younger age and wish that I found stories that I found later in life much sooner in life. It would have made things make more sense when they were happening.
My English teacher nailed it. She assigned it over winter break. When we went back to school we took a quick quiz on it to prove we read it and then spent maybe 10 minutes discussing it. She didn’t impose any of her opinions onto us. She just let us talk about how we felt about it. I’m so glad I read Catcher when I did. I was the perfect age for it. I tried rereading it as an adult and didn’t enjoy it nearly as much. It was the only book in high school that I read and enjoyed.
I was assigned to read Catcher in the Rye in high school. It is one of the few books which I hated primarily because of the character of Holden Caufield. Who in the hell is Holden Caufield to judge whether or not a person is authentic or phony!?! Is concept of authenticity is ill-defined and some of the adults who ere interacting with him were being authentic but Holden labels them as phony anyway. His critique of his brother is the worst one of all, his brother has found a way to make a living doing what he loves, but Holden criticizes him because he makes compromises in order to pursue a living. You have to make compromises in order to survive in this world and to establish a stable society. The lack of a willingness to compromise is detrimental to mainitaining a democratic society. I blame Holden Caulfield for the state of political polarization that we are currently experiencing. In short it is better to learn to get along with others than it is to pursue a phony authenticity. Holden Caulfield thinks that anyone who does not conform to his way of thinking is a phony insteard of a person who has a genuine disagreement. Thank you for this video. I now have a more sympathetic understanding of Holden Caulfield and realize now that he was trying to process his grief over the loss of his brother and of how those feelings made him feel isolated and disconnected from the world and that is the reason for a lashing out at what he perceives as being phony, because it doesn't want to deal with the existential crisis that all of us share.
I got extremely lucky. I did first get to read this incredible book in school, but under quite possibly the best and worst circumstances. I had a really hard childhood where I did not realize that I was not safe until I finally got out at 18. Because of that, I was probably already bound to love this book. I didn't have to read it for English class, but by ironically a film teacher who was forced to give to this day still the best history class I have ever had. This incredible person was loved by kids, especially kids like me who came from hard places, and I imagine he did too. He lived his whole life clearly from a similar place to Holden (besides the hating movies lol) and truly wanted to take care of and keep children's creativity and innocence alive. He was definitely meant to be a teacher. A lot of the class absolutely loved the beginning of the book when the act was still up, but I hated it. When the cracks started showing though, I absolutely melted while they in turn found Holden annoying and too soft. I don't blame any of those kids, but I was also at a private high school and many of them were at a point in their life where they liked the idea of the cool bad boy but not the experiences that could drive someone to that thankfully. That teacher single handedly probably dragged me through all of high school and for a time I even considered him as close as family. I wonder if this book was something he knew I needed or if it was a happy accident, but either way I will forever be thankful. If this book is taught in schools, I feel that it really should be through those that never let the Holden in themselves fully go away - ironically that probably lies more often than not with film and theater teachers or those that teach it from a place of love and passion, rather than a requirement on a reading list somewhere. I will treasure this book at the time I needed it most and the gift of this wonderful teacher forever and I hope that even some other students can be lucky enough to have that similar experience.
I was made in to read the book in English class at 15. It is one of the three books I was assigned in school I can say I had a lot of interest in and read ahead on. Loved every second because I really seen Holde in myself
but seriously- I liked the way it deals with nonconformity and adolescence. But the way Holden thinks about women, gay people and cross dressers just irked me. Of course that was normal back then but if I had the choice, I would study this topic through other books. Also, Salinger’s obsession with the innocence of children is understandable since he seems to have had a traumatic childhood but still kind of icky in my opinion.
That is understandable. Anytime I read a book, or even teach it to my students, I always try to contextualize it so its treatment of women, anyone in the LGBTQ community, or people of color is explained
But that really says much doesn't it? You're trying to depict phoniness and innocence yet you're just another person embodying the values of the times? Unless that's the message, and it's a message I fundamentally disagree with. So really no matter how you look at it, I really don't like this book anymore.
J.D fookin sallonger is the kind of beggar who asked how to become a writer when he saw Lewis and Tolkien were sippin' some coffee nearby the main st's cafe
Mr Antolini definitely was tryna something shady with Holden though and even if he wasn’t it’s important to note that Holden has been molested in the past because afterwards he says something in the book like “it’s happened countless times before” after leaving antolinis house. And it would check out he’s been violated because his obsession with the innocence of kids
it might just be me, but i really really loved this book- on its own and as a school assignment. it was interesting seeing others perspectives on it and connecting with others through the story. but it could also be the fact im indecisive and enjoy all books school assigns me
i had to read this in AP English in 11th grade (i live in Germany) and absolutely hated this book lol, i probably would´ve enjoyed it more outside of school. like without the pressure to read 20 pages a day and analyze everything and to be graded on everything
I just finished it for the first time at 26 and I was SHOCKED it was ever taught. I loved it and related to Holden and his thought processes so much, but I had always heard about how he’s insufferable and annoying. I couldn’t imagine being in a highschool class and haveing a discussion about it, it would have absolutely torn me apart to know people thought so harshly about depression. And even then, I don’t think it’s even healthy. The themes of suicide and anhedonia would have completely swallowed me up and I feel like I would have ended up idolizing his struggles as “poetic”, you know, how teens do. As an adult, it felt almost indulgent to go back to that headspace of feeling so lost and isolated, but without the added weight of adult responsibilities. Now everything has an additional layer of overwhelming guilt, along with a weird jealousy that I was never hospitalized for treatment, because failing to thrive is always putting your weight on someone else’s shoulders. As an adult it felt comforting. As. A teen… I believe it would have been dangerous.
Love this! I had to read Catcher in the Rye in high school, but we didn’t actually talk about it much, it was more of an independent study type thing. And I don’t remember much from the novel at all, which is unfortunate (I do own a copy and will reread it someday). I think I might become an English teacher one day, and I hope to remember to encourage my students to read this on their own, outside of school or after they graduate from high school.
They generally don't teach the book in public schools as the whole preppy experience is so unrelatable to working class and students of color. It does nothing to generate disruptive change. The book also fails to call out unjust bourgeois white supremacy and obliquely approves of capitalist class-based income inequality. Holden, a recipient of capitalist white privilege, lives on fifth avenue. Holden attends an expensive boarding school unavailable to poor students of color or undocumented new Americans of Latino extraction. The book also perpetuates homophobia with its use of terms like "flit" to represent gay men. It unjustly attacks one of Holden's former teachers and his sexual orientation which may have been "MAP". Thus it denormalizes the condition of LGBTQIA++ people and their allies. The only purpose of children's education must be toward engineering their minds to think properly and correctly. To equip them to make proper moral decisions. Anything thats not a part of the solution to our unjust racist society is part of the problem and can no longer be tolerated. By failing to proffer a proper attack on the status quo, this book fails young students miserably by leading them toward outdated discredited thinking and must therefore be condemned as a work of counter-education. 'Catcher in the Rye' must be removed from all libraries and restricted from sale on Amazon, Kindle, and Barnes and Noble. Only academics have any business possessing it.
@@RaptorFromWeegee I can see that your liberal/woke education has failed you and I wouldn’t be surprised if you hadn’t actually read the book. While “Catcher in the Rye” isn’t perfect and may contain ideas or phrases from the time it was written, that doesn’t make the overall message bad. Nor does the containment of xyz problem mean it should be 100% banned and only possessed by academics. Clearly you’ve also never read Fahrenheit 451 and think it’s totally fine to censor information.
The Catcher in the Rye is one of my favorite books, but I probably will never be able to read it again (I identify with Holden Caulfield so much that I had to take a break from the book because it made me cry).
I just finished “catcher in the rye” a couple minuetes ago. While I read it, I thought that I wouldn’t have enjoyed it as much if it was assigned as homework. I agree with what you said about “catcher in the rye” read organically.
I completely agree. I grew up in Russia and picked it up on my own at 14 and to this day (at 30yo) I still consider it my favourite book, and the one that shaped me.
JD Salinger worked in counter-intelligence for the military during World War 2. It is suspected some sort of trigger words are in it, and part of some sort of MK Ultra program geared at males (i.e. the guy accused of shooting rock star John Lennon dead in NYC had a copy of "Catcher in the Rye" on him, John Lennon was carrying his wife's ((Yoko Ono)) music demo "Walking on Thin Ice" at the time.) Some other assassination instances as such. The other suspicion I have is with Judith Rossner's "Looking for Mister Goodbar" geared toward females, but it is not required reading for high school students. I did not see that she served in the military but worked for publications like "Scientific American." I doubt anyone would criticize their great writing skills.
Good discussion. I basically hated Shakespeare for the some of the same reasons you give for not wanting the teaching of, or mandating the reading of, CITR in high school. Still, if an individual high school teacher wanted his/her (("They/"Them"🙄)) students to read it, I would have no objections to such a thing even if I was a school administrator, (which I'm not). I had very different ressons for wanting to read such a work......MUCH later than my high school years.😶
I think there's a lot of books on the reading list in highschool that should wait to be read. Recently I tried to remember every book I had to read for English class in highschool. I realized that in 11th grade alone, we covered: The Glass Castle The Great Gatsby The Scarlet Letter The Crucible East of Eden Catcher in the Rye One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest Huckleberry Finn Death of a Sales Man And those are only the ones I remember us covering, and I don't even fully remember the books themselves. How does anyone gain anything meaningful or substainable from any of these complex reads when they are covered in one academic year? A whole class could be taught on east of Eden alone.
Holy moly you had to read East of Eden in high school? I wouldn't even know how to begin to teach that book to my students! That's amazing you were reading that stuff at such a young age!
@@colorlesswonderland Honestly, it became one of my favorite books that year even though I had to skim read it/skip certain parts and ask people for details in order to finish it in time. I want to reread it as an adult, at my own pace.
I will Grier and Greeks Gatsby but I disagree on the other ones and I know why because I think the students aren’t really getting it especially with catcher of the rye because the fact is there is another Holden Caulfield there literally is I never Holden Caulfield and that is the present Holden Caulfield that dude is different than the one in the story that’s the key Takeaway here
Say things start later in the crucible like to to understand those things I think it’s really people are failing on it because of one thing there’s different offer there’s other present tense and past it’s going on especially in the crucible that’s acting like oh what happened before but that it has a connection to what’s going on with the red scare
In my own case, as groundbreaking as CITR was in regards to Holdens depressed feelings about the world around him. I read CI.TR at age 16 in 1967 and lacking in maturity, I immediately viewed Holden as a hero and role model. Like many male teens of that period I was pro non-conformist, I played guitar in a band and I failed to see the positive aspects of my upbringing combined with all the advantages afforded me. So, yes many impressionable teens don't have the maturity to read CITR.
I agree with much of your commentary. I'm 72 years old, and when I was in high school Catcher was a forbidden book (though mostly because of the "fuck you"s written in the school stairways). Of course I read it when I was a freshman, along with many other "forbidden" books, like Grapes of Wrath, Tropic of Cancer, and many other literary books like that (I couldn't afford to buy actual porn books then, and they were hard to find), which were in the public library. I've read Catcher many times during my life, and have a like/dislike relationship with it. Yes, Holden sees the world as full of phonies, but he's not much better. His parents are rich, and he's going to an exclusive private school. Throughout the book he has no real contact with any actual working person. Not the prostitute. Not the cab driver. The girls he met in the nightclub in New York he basically thought of as airheads, hoping to meet movie stars. In essence, Holden is a rich asshole.
All very good points you make. But I'm curious about how the book was originally forbidden. I'm guessing, based on your age, that this state of affairs existed in the early 1960s? I'm curious when it attained the status of a book they make kids read in school? Was it like `72? Cause we had to ready it in 8th grade (like 1977). Of course we were a progressive school just outside of New York.
I personally think it's not a natural loss of Innocence from consensual romance or inevitable tough experiences but a premature or brutal loss that Holden wants to stop. We're talking about kids being abused, molested, or serially bullied like the Castle boy who jumped out the window. He will catch them figuratively and/or literally if able so that the kids don't become irreparably damaged.
This was the one book they gave us to read in high school that I actually enjoyed and related to, so I have to disagree. We should instead have higher expectations of teachers and in general less rigid education.
I really liked your interpretation in this video. To be honest, when I finished reading this I didn't understand what was the point of the novel but what I got from it is some incomprehensible hatred for Holden. Yet you explained it in a short 14 minute video. I understand why I hate Holden because I relate to him in a sense that I hate conformity in the school education system. As a high schooler myself, I see myself conform to standardized testing, interacting with people I dislike, and basically being a "phony" and when I read this book (thankfully not because it's required) I disliked him because it made me realize that I was jealous. Basically what I'm saying is that I wish I could be nonconforming like him but I can't. Sorry for the long message, but your video actually helped me understand what I felt in the book in a more precise way. Thank you
Great video! Loved this book in high school though, the only assigned reading I enjoyed. I think this book is for the damaged, but everyone can enjoy the psychology.
The book should be required reading.... in life... in college. As for high school, maybe yes, maybe no. Some teenagers will relate. But the book is very deep from multiple angles, and many teenagers will not full grasp it all. Either way, the book is extremely well-written.
Agreed. However, I recently watched a Yale course on Franny & Zooey. It confirmed, taught and relieved. Though university and highschool are not the same, they share their fabric as institution, and in my experience, are equally disappointing. To me this course did not disappoint, it did justice. So I agree with you. But I wonder what your thoughts would be on this course. PS I know Franny & Zooey is not Catcher, still, wonder what your take on it might be.
I know this will sound like people come up with anything. When I was a child I would throw tantrums at school, and Sunday school. Usually throwing and breaking everything as a revolt against my on off relationship with my parents, which I was staying with a babysitter who favored me over the other children at the time. I was only 7-10 years old was time period and I would go along with an assumption the psychiatrist had that I would 'black out' and comment these 'tantrums'. I agreed with him in thinking I was leading on the lie for attention I guess I was young and naive. It was a good way to get out of school since they placed me in ese classes simply for displinary reasons, I was not their for learning difficulties per say.I was diagnosed with a rare type of 'seizure with rage spikes'. I was sent to a brain monitoring facility where they performed ekgs on my brain and hooked wires to me for whole weekends at the time and I remember while I was there I was put into a room and an antagonist experiment similar to the one conducted on the college student in that one mkultra movie I forget the scene was where his teacher brings him into a theater room and makes him watch heinous images over and over trying to trigger his symptoms. Anyways I am 34 years old now and I just read the 1st chapter of 'Catcher in the rye' being inspired to buy the book after watching Mel Gibson/Julia Roberts movie "Conspiracy Theory". After reading 1st chapter I fell asleep and instantly not in my REM sleep cycle fell into a horrible nightmare hypnosis where a man I couldn't face had a baby carriage and the baby would come out and shapeshift Into some sort of demon and it was happening over and over in slightly different scenes, it was as if he was coming at me to possess me. Never had anything like this occured since When I was taking riddilen as a young child maybe 6 I had a series of horrific nightmares over two week period which stopped after I was taken off that medication. Point being maybe there is more to the story than people think. I put the book up after chapter one and refuse to read anymore of it. First novel I have tried to read in awhile I typically stay reading ancient Greek/Roman, non-fiction, and politically relevant books. I don't regard myself as easily hypnotizable but maybe I was partially hypnotized into being a sleeper cell but they didn't complete process...this is definitely a true story I am not insane. It was just a nightmare in any case maybe brought on about the hype of the book, but I don't really think so. The way it hit me was so perfect, and the epiphany afterwards so vivid. I understood the mind of a lunatic before I was able to come back to my senses.
I had a fine time in high school and I was never wearing a mask. I wasn't the type to be pressured into anything. Not by my friends and not by guys. There was not a lot of bullying but I did step in when I could to help someone with no fear of losing my own "social status". No major problems and I had a lot of fun socially. I had friends at my high school and also at other high schools near me. It's sad that so many people have awful experiences in high school. We were not assigned Catcher in the Rye in high school or in college. Reading it as an adult it didn't blow me away and I didn't understand what all the fuss was about. He was clearly not meant to be a hero or role model. There are certainly enough sad and tragic books, so why this is any different is beyond me.
I completely agree, except there's a problem. Yes, The Catcher in the Rye is ruined by the school environment, but this also applies to literally everything else in one way or another. The obvious conclusion being the immediate ending of the school system.
This was a pretty good video I personally found it to be a very interesting book to think about, & few other books stick in my mind or pop back up as often as it does. I like catcher in the rye but for a very different reason than you do. It was an interesting book because partway through I realized that Holden is the biggest phony in the book. In his sadness he is blinded to the sincerity others hold, just as they don't try to understand him, he doesn't try to understand where the adults are coming from.
If the movie is made in 90s I picture tobey meguire play holden or if the movie made in the 50s I picture marlon Brando they fit to play holden maybe James dean if he’s alive
I almost disliked the video because i disagreed with your opinion but you are just too darn likable to dislike. So I decided to like & comment instead. Catcher in the rye was the ONLY book I enjoyed reading in high school & that’s the only reason I think it SHOULD be taught in school… for the kids like me ☺️
I’m not from United Stated, nonetheless I decided to read The catcher in the rye basically because it was a book that I always heard about, people saying is a bad book, why is this book a classic?, Holden is an idiot, Holden is hating on everything, and also you can only enjoy this book when you are a teenager, thus a decided to gave it an opportunity, my thoughts about this books are that Holden is the modern idea of what Peter Pan is, a boy scared of growing up, a person who does rather back to his childhood instead of keep on growing, what I do think is a respectable and accurate opinion, and I’d say this respond the causes of his demeanor, the phony thing may be the way how his wrath, disconcerting, sadness is represented, he is always thinking people is false merely because he is not conforming with the society he’s living in, the fact that he lives in a world when he’ll never stay the same, a world that make you maturate when you are not ready (I mean you never really are) the extract you did show is my favorite part by the way, and the reasons why I love this book so much, we all once or yet wanted to stay at a time forever but we couldn’t, times doesn’t come back we only go ): at the ending part it’s clear to understand Holden’s personality, with his sister on the horse, rounding and rounding, knowing she is going to grow some day and he is just concerned about here, such as he is with himself, definitely is a great book, despite of the narrative that would disconcert some people, and the ideas that at first sight seems stupid, nevertheless with the passing of the book they make sense, and also make you question yourself, and about the book in high school, well .... none book ought to be obliged to read haha, even so this book is something teens would be more interesting in, because of the simpleness in which is written, but the meaningful this that are hidden, i loved your opinion and the enthusiasm you did show. 🙏🏻(:
Thank you so much for your comment! I love comments like this because it shows just how passionate you are about this! I absolutely love the comparisons to Peter Pan here because that's a really fascinating way to look at this, especially since Peter Pan is often associated with family friendly content and The Catcher in the Rye isn't, despite the two containing similar themes. I also love how you bring up the point of society trying to force us to mature even when we aren't ready which would help us understand Holden's interaction with Carl Luce more! Thank you again for the comment I love reading stuff like this!
Wow you really misunderstood this book. He was molested. He's disociating and talking about ducks because he doesn't want to think about his experiences. Sex is a dangerous and vulnerable act holden can't just have fun with like his friends. That boy who jumped out the window was molested by the same teacher, he was the only one to touch the body.
I disagree, I read it in highschool and what changed my class drastically from a reserved boring class to a open readily willing to discuss freely the issues of the day
That is. nonsense. Discipline doesn't mean the end of individuality. Taking direction from other people, or doing things as a group, including standardized testing and activity doesnt mean the end of individuality. You dont need to be a hedonist with no rules to keep your individuality. Your individuality is pointless if it rules over you.
The only reason I would not recommend this book to anyone is because it’s a road to no where. From what I remember, Holden does not grow as a character, he does not evolve. He’s a whiny b!tch throughout the whole story. Just when you think he’s going to have an epiphany, he doesn’t.
I'm nearly 60. I had to put up with being taught this in high school and college...and i was an English lit major. And while it has its place as a tool for helping to generate critical thinking reflection introspection etcetera, as with most of these self-obsessed deep thinkers his own life was in some ways a parody of everything that he seemed to be complaining about. Yeah I know he was World War II combat veteran etc. In the end though kind of like David Crosby lecturing people on how to be parents and he was such a dirtbag himself.... you get the idea. Do I think this book should be taught in school? Sure why not. But I think the narcissism and self-obsession and self-absorption of the author to say nothing of the character put on full display absolute hypocrisy and arrested development. And for someone who was in love with studying Eastern religion religion and philosophy Salinger sure seem not to get it
See this is a stupid reason this actually forgets and this is a big thing I think most people forget about is that there are two Holden Caulfield there’s the past one the one who’s doing all that stuff and there’s the other Holden Caulfield the one that’s telling you what he did that’s the present tense that’s the one who wrote the story that’s the one telling you how are you got to this point
No honestly I completely disagree that I think it needs to be taught is the way that it’s been touched kind of makes me feel like it people are failing at the message of this because well the truth is nobody wants to know the truth about their own life and so they’ll see that Holden Caufield basically them and yet they’re getting mad because they don’t like that the truth is coming out about them in a way they want to feel secured just like him
Nice review. Its a little hard to focus on what you are saying a lot of the time though. Talking with your hands and turning your head to your laptop is very distracting. I had to look away to be able to pay attention.
What's great about the book is there are two Holdens. The Holden the story is happening to, and the Holden telling the story. The former is just a tragic figure, who is losing his mental health, and fails at making any connections. On the other hand the Holden who's telling us the story is frankly a triumph. He's finally succeeded in doing what he was trying to do the whole novel- getting people (meaning us) to finally listen to him. So it's actually a hopeful story. (Basically stole all this from John Green, but I love it)
Doesn't he talk about being in a psych ward in the current moment of narrating in the last chapter
@@denzelherrman I believe he's out of the psych ward while he's telling the story.
The way u get into kind of perspective is just like the way u cant relate and just believe a scammer homeless girl.
Let me tell u, not only holden the one who lost a brother, and suffer with mental health and struggling with society or relationship.
But life is life, in the end we gotta have a purpose, or way of living, to achieve sth we really want.
Not to keep GOSH DARN! GOSH DARN!
So Holden is, what we call, a "unreliable narrator", a classic literary device used to tell stories in interesting ways, and explore a character's point of view. Its a concept you'll encounter in college English classes, if you haven't already.
Another important thing to remember is that kill John Lennon, I mean jus blow that fugger away, man! Its the only way to complete the odyssey Holden started, it really is.
Big time respect for admitting you took your ideas from someone else!! It's very refreshing to see!
THIS THIS THIS EXACTLY. The first time I read Catcher in the Rye was supposed to be towards the end of the year in my junior year english class, but because of Covid lockdowns, our teacher cut it from the curriculum. Because I didn’t read that much, I thought I’d check it out anyways and I couldn’t be more glad. This shit resonated with me way more than if I’d had to take chapter reading comprehension quizzes and use post it annotations and do the frankly phony “fun” assignments my teacher used to make us do. I’ve always said this that Catcher in the Rye being taught in schools is quite ironic bc it’s is a subtle critique of the school system, with (1) schools being portrayed primarily as institutions of prestige rather than leaning and (2) teachers themselves actively suppressing holden’s curiosity rather than nurturing it, favoring conformity over actual learning. To lecture kids about this lesson would be really incongruous.
My grip with Catcher In The Rye is if high school students take Holden's mentality of an edgelord with a MC complex before the end of the book.
That's why I think one MUST read it twice: during adolescence and after it to see this change if they had this problem. Now, I see Holden as a teenager that needs mental health services instead of someone's breaking through conformity.
nah, shit, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
Why are you so right?
I definitely was someone similar to Holden when I was in highschool.
Unfortunately, I think you just have to accept the fact that some people will take the wrong lessons away from certain texts. The text might be more appropriate for an AP class
Fer christ sake, we read this book in junior high, and only ONE Beatle got shot, thats it! What a bunch of snowflakes this current generations become.....and phony's too.
And how was Holden ever an edgelord? He wasn't going around trying freak people out or offend people. He was kind of an introvert, if you really wanna know the truth. And "MC Complex", whats that? I'm not even from a generation that would even know what that was. I'm really not.
I agree that you get a whole new perspective from reading it after you're well beyond Holden's age. And Holden was never breaking through conformity, he was overwhelmed by it. He's really only just discovered the artificiality of the conventions we all conform to.
And he was actually GETTING mental health services at the very beginning of the book, when he starts narrating the story of his odyssey to his shrink.
Funny how a lot of people responded with “I read this book in high school and it’s been my favorite ever since” or something to that effect. I totally hear what you’re saying and appreciate your argument. However, I would counter with the fact that, if not for it being assigned in school, many people would never take it upon themselves to read it and would therefore miss out on something wonderful. Also, if the teacher is doing it right, they would never discourage any opinion or interpretation and would cover and discuss most everything you eloquently discuss in your video. Plus, the good teachers now a days facilitate discussion, and don’t lead it. My best days in the classroom are when I say hardly anything because my students are doing all the talking 👍🏼
I read it on my own when I was about 13. I wasn’t expecting it to be so relatable since it was a “classic.” I didn’t overtly pick up on the themes in a direct way back then, but I sure found Holden laugh out loud funny. Especially the way he would describe things. This was in the early 1980s.
My school had us read some good classics, but i unfortunately never read this in high school and i honestly feel a bit cheated. It was one of my dad’s favorite books, but i had no clue what it was about and wasn’t really interested in reading it. My dad and i haven’t talked in 8 years, so a few years ago when i was around 20, i read it for the first time and it became my favorite book. I reread it recently now that i’m almost 24, and even that small gap of time helped me see it from a different perspective and understand things a bit more. I think this it’s one of the greats for many reasons, but a big one for me is that it can and should be read at least 2 times, at different stages of your life. When i was 20 i had no direction and was really struggling, and the loss of my dad through him basically disowning me had been tearing me up. I think i needed this book then and i need it now. I think that in times of hardship or in a place of oppression, disappointment and hurt, you should find solace, solidarity and hope in literature. This book is perfect for that and for most ages. I can understand why schools wouldn’t want students to read this, but i definitely think they should even if it’s not required
This was such a great video! I feel like people often reject Catcher in the Rye at first because they don't like Holden as a person, but I think you need to look at both sides and I agree that he spirals even further in the novel as a result of constant adult failure in his life.
Im 14 about to start high school and i just read this book on my own. This video made me rethink my opinion on the book completely. I didn’t really understand Holdens character completely in most of the book and honestly found him a bit annoying. Now i just kind of wanna give holden a hug
I love this book, and for my A-level essay (2500 words or so), an essay which made up a large chunk of my final grade, I compared the presentations of conformity in the Catcher in The Rye and The Scarlet Letter.
At the top of my paper I had this quote by Robert Musil: “one most conform to the baseness of an age or become neurotic”.
That is an excellent quote and now you make me want to reread The Scarlet Letter haha!
I read this at age 17 for high school English in 1987., And then again at age 40. Loved it both times for different reasons. I really disagree with you. The point of reading in high school isn't to enjoy the book. It's to learn about literature, literary devices, and language. Catcher in the Rye and To Kill a Mockingbird are excellent for that. So glad I was in high school before phonies of ALL political stripe started banning/censoring them. You can argue that books are generally better enjoyed outside of an academic context, but to laser focus that notion on one book, and advocate for its removal from classrooms is strange to me. All due respect.
I read this on my own a couple of months ago and I absolutely loved the book. I asked my high school English teacher why he doesn’t teach this book and basically gave the same reasoning you gave.
Huh.
We had to read “Catcher” in 12th grade and the teacher wanted to make sure we got permission from our parents to read it because it had “the f-word” in it. Lol she was a sweet old lady.
Read it in high school and I thought Holden was kinda a downer. Typical morose teen. I’m in my 40s now and I don’t know how relatable it would be. I’m glad I read it when I did. Even though I still haven’t recovered from those f-words.
Off topic but... I see the secret history on your book pile. Will we get a review on it? 😭😭
I actually tried to read Secret History a while back and was thrown off by the dialogue/characters that I stopped reading it and never got back into it but I could absolutely make a review about it one day! Thank you for the comment!
This book made me question my morals.. bunny is one of the most annoying characters lmaooo
@@zero-tonin I feel it!! Especially towards the end :/
Catcher should be read twice: in high school when you get WHAT Holden is saying, then as an adult when you understand WHY he says it
I read Catcher in the Rye in high school (not assigned) and I loved it. I related to Holden’s criticisms of society so much. However, I missed a lot of the signs of Holden struggling, which I only really saw when I reread it recently. The book changed from “yay bashing society” to “this poor precious child” in a matter of 2 years, and I appreciate it so much more for that. It’s so nuanced
I take your point, and it is a good one. However, I don't understand how most reviews completely fail to mention the climax of the story that takes place at the carousel in which Holden completely unwinds his critiques of adult society by juxtaposing his realization that all children must eventually be given the opportunity to learn this about the world on their own, and "if they fall off they fall off." This, The Catcher in the Rye's must crucial narrative turn is a master class in structure and zen balance as it forces perspective by modeling the moment when an iconically unique voice suddenly becomes aware of itself and holds true his sympathies and contradictions simultaneously. This lesson more than makes up for any other number of prejudicial ideas in the book, and is a particularly valuable one for students just coming to face the contradictions of the adult world themselves.
I didn't expect to be this attached to a story I've never read. I want to say thank you for making this video because it was my first introduction to this book and I'm going to read it now
i read it in high school and absolutely loved it. i get the argument though it makes sense. more of those students would have enjoyed it had they found it on their own.
It's the perfect book for helping adolescents understand and find themselves. Yes there are a lot of words that are used that people find offensive these days but those words weren't used in as an offensive way in the 1950s. You gotta look passed that, and frankly just get over it and read the damn book, it's the best ❤
Catcher is the very best thing that I have ever read on teenage alienation. On not fitting in. It's absolutely essential reading for people in their teens and early 20s. I reread it recently and it completely holds up after more than 70 years.
I accidentally found this video after I discovered I have to read The Catcher In The Rye this summer vacation . I have read this book before organically and I got so angry when I discovered our teachers chose this book for our project. I totally agree with everything you said in the video and hopefully I'll manage to write a decent paper without losing my temper or criticize the whole system:)
By the way , English isn't my mother's tongue so sorry if my grammar isn't perfect
I read this as an adult I appreciated it, but then again I had no support sytem when my mother died when I was 19. I think ypu're arguement is wonderful. If I had been assigned this in highschool I wouldn't appreciate it as much. Only a few assigned stories from hs remain with me because they stick out. The Epic of Gilgamesh, Great Expectations, A Tale of 2 Cities, Ozymendias by Shelley, and Things Fall Apart.
If it’s not taught in school most people will never read it
I think you are the only guy who view holden as human who yearns for connection
All the other who read the book says he just emo, immature and refuses to grow. So i liked your perspective
As an immature emo who refused to grow, I still hated this character.
I read this book for the first time my senior year of highschool and i loved it because Holden felt so relatable to me. Years later i wonder often what that says about younger me.
You got a pretty good point about it not being forced in schools, dude. When I was a teen my mom wouldn't leave me alone about reading The Catcher in the Rye. When I finally read it, I understood why she kept suggesting it. It is best organically. And I can see why schools ban it too. I can also see why people hate it. Most people would rather follow the crowd. It's easier, but not necessarily the best choice. Especially these days in 2022.
Thank you so much for this analysis! I just finished the book and I was trying to process/understand Holden's perspective. Your explanation cleared everything up, and now I definitely like Holden more as a character, haha.
I read this book for the first time a few weeks ago, I am 55. I can relate to Holden in many ways. I too, would like to be a catcher in the rye, even to this day. I suppose this is because I left school and home when I was 15, parents weren’t not there mentally and I had in many ways been on my own prior to 15. I was surprised at the content whereas Salinger talks about real life people, gay, cross dressing, sex at that age etc, as most TV didn’t depict this as being around in that era, even using the “fuck you”, that era I believe for most of us in my age group was sugar coated to be the happy 50’s and everyone had the leave it to beaver mentality. My differences however are not about the “phonies” but as we have to conform weather we choose to or not, to life. This is the part i love about Holden, he catches Phoebe from the rye cliff by not letting her go with him, protecting her innocence a little longer before realizing the real world, and all the people trying to survive in it after the end of innocence.
This is my favorite book I ever read. I read it during the summer for a summer English assignment my freshman year of high school. It was the first book that I willingly decided to read twice.
I'm spanish so in highschool it's not on the list of mandatory readings, but I read it a long time ago (2011) when I was 20 and I loved it, your video just made me want to read it again, maybe this time in english! Also, I don't get the controversy about the author, it seems a lot of people hate it but I remember I enjoyed it a lot...
Anyway I loved your video, new subscriber here! Greetings from Mallorca💜🏝
U have melted my brain... Excellent work... I must read this book.
As another commentor mentioned, there's a difference in how one might relate to Holden when they read it in school vs reading it again years later.
In highschool, Holden seems like a jerk lashing out against anyone who is unfortunate enough to listen, but now 7 years later, I can tell from the beginning that Holden is in pain.
From the issues with his parents' indifference to the death of Allie; The way none if his teachers seem to actually care.
I think Holden goes about his days covering up who he really is, because who he really is, is sad and depressed and lonesome, in pain. So he makes the assumption that everyone else must be doing the same.
So he makes this feedback loop of bad interactions with people. He feels lonely so he tries to reach out. If they respond poorly, he gets upset and pushes back. Even if they respond well, he feels uncomfortable and still pushes back. Then he comes away from the issue unfulfilled.
I see my own teenage self reflected in this book. Unfortunately i was too in my own head to see it back then. It's a great book and this is a great review. I'll be watching more of your channel!
Great take! Very interesting. I read it last year when I was 17 and loved it!!! Lots of love from Germany
Thank you so much! It's really crazy to think someone from Germany watched my video haha!
Thank you endlessly for being the person to finally get me shut up and read it. It absolutely has no place in school, but I’d say I’m glad I didn’t read it till almost 19 years old. It may just be my personal favorite neck ever now, and I never would’ve given it the fair chance it deserved if not for you man. Thanks:)))
The first time I read this book was my senior year of high school. I feel that a lot of the books that I read outside of what I was forced to read have stayed with me far longer than they ones that were assigned reading.
My school didn't assign this book to read at any level to my knowledge but I'm glad I found it when I did anyways.
It was in a box that my grandfather found of his mother's who was an English professor. It was super old and he gave it to me because he knew I liked to read but I ended up buying my own newer edition because I didn't want to end up ruining it.
My English teacher saw me reading it one day when I was supposed to be reading Crime and Punishment and instead of getting on to me about it she actually talked to me about it after class since I had her back to back since she was also my psychology teacher.
I didn't ask her why it wasn't taught at the school, I kind of figure why as the town I'm from is very small minded when it comes to things such as having a brain and they probably banned it years ago and I just didn't know.
I feel like there is a way to teach Catcher in the Rye that allows conversation between students and the teacher in a conductive manner. Probably at the 11th grade level. Kids are introduced to things at such a young level compared to previous generations and it's something I don't think the older generations realize. I know I was introduced to things at a younger age and wish that I found stories that I found later in life much sooner in life. It would have made things make more sense when they were happening.
My English teacher nailed it. She assigned it over winter break. When we went back to school we took a quick quiz on it to prove we read it and then spent maybe 10 minutes discussing it. She didn’t impose any of her opinions onto us. She just let us talk about how we felt about it.
I’m so glad I read Catcher when I did. I was the perfect age for it. I tried rereading it as an adult and didn’t enjoy it nearly as much. It was the only book in high school that I read and enjoyed.
I was assigned to read Catcher in the Rye in high school. It is one of the few books which I hated primarily because of the character of Holden Caufield. Who in the hell is Holden Caufield to judge whether or not a person is authentic or phony!?! Is concept of authenticity is ill-defined and some of the adults who ere interacting with him were being authentic but Holden labels them as phony anyway. His critique of his brother is the worst one of all, his brother has found a way to make a living doing what he loves, but Holden criticizes him because he makes compromises in order to pursue a living. You have to make compromises in order to survive in this world and to establish a stable society. The lack of a willingness to compromise is detrimental to mainitaining a democratic society. I blame Holden Caulfield for the state of political polarization that we are currently experiencing. In short it is better to learn to get along with others than it is to pursue a phony authenticity. Holden Caulfield thinks that anyone who does not conform to his way of thinking is a phony insteard of a person who has a genuine disagreement.
Thank you for this video. I now have a more sympathetic understanding of Holden Caulfield and realize now that he was trying to process his grief over the loss of his brother and of how those feelings made him feel isolated and disconnected from the world and that is the reason for a lashing out at what he perceives as being phony, because it doesn't want to deal with the existential crisis that all of us share.
It irritated me then, and still irritates me now.
I got extremely lucky. I did first get to read this incredible book in school, but under quite possibly the best and worst circumstances. I had a really hard childhood where I did not realize that I was not safe until I finally got out at 18. Because of that, I was probably already bound to love this book. I didn't have to read it for English class, but by ironically a film teacher who was forced to give to this day still the best history class I have ever had. This incredible person was loved by kids, especially kids like me who came from hard places, and I imagine he did too. He lived his whole life clearly from a similar place to Holden (besides the hating movies lol) and truly wanted to take care of and keep children's creativity and innocence alive. He was definitely meant to be a teacher. A lot of the class absolutely loved the beginning of the book when the act was still up, but I hated it. When the cracks started showing though, I absolutely melted while they in turn found Holden annoying and too soft. I don't blame any of those kids, but I was also at a private high school and many of them were at a point in their life where they liked the idea of the cool bad boy but not the experiences that could drive someone to that thankfully. That teacher single handedly probably dragged me through all of high school and for a time I even considered him as close as family. I wonder if this book was something he knew I needed or if it was a happy accident, but either way I will forever be thankful. If this book is taught in schools, I feel that it really should be through those that never let the Holden in themselves fully go away - ironically that probably lies more often than not with film and theater teachers or those that teach it from a place of love and passion, rather than a requirement on a reading list somewhere. I will treasure this book at the time I needed it most and the gift of this wonderful teacher forever and I hope that even some other students can be lucky enough to have that similar experience.
I was made in to read the book in English class at 15. It is one of the three books I was assigned in school I can say I had a lot of interest in and read ahead on. Loved every second because I really seen Holde in myself
but seriously- I liked the way it deals with nonconformity and adolescence. But the way Holden thinks about women, gay people and cross dressers just irked me. Of course that was normal back then but if I had the choice, I would study this topic through other books. Also, Salinger’s obsession with the innocence of children is understandable since he seems to have had a traumatic childhood but still kind of icky in my opinion.
That is understandable. Anytime I read a book, or even teach it to my students, I always try to contextualize it so its treatment of women, anyone in the LGBTQ community, or people of color is explained
But that really says much doesn't it? You're trying to depict phoniness and innocence yet you're just another person embodying the values of the times? Unless that's the message, and it's a message I fundamentally disagree with.
So really no matter how you look at it, I really don't like this book anymore.
Wholeheartedly agree.
He was sure obsession with children. left his wife and kids for a 19 years old girl
@@RUclipsr-xs9cp 19 year old is a child?
J.D fookin sallonger is the kind of beggar who asked how to become a writer when he saw Lewis and Tolkien were sippin' some coffee nearby the main st's cafe
Mr Antolini definitely was tryna something shady with Holden though and even if he wasn’t it’s important to note that Holden has been molested in the past because afterwards he says something in the book like “it’s happened countless times before” after leaving antolinis house. And it would check out he’s been violated because his obsession with the innocence of kids
it might just be me, but i really really loved this book- on its own and as a school assignment. it was interesting seeing others perspectives on it and connecting with others through the story. but it could also be the fact im indecisive and enjoy all books school assigns me
i had to read this in AP English in 11th grade (i live in Germany) and absolutely hated this book lol, i probably would´ve enjoyed it more outside of school. like without the pressure to read 20 pages a day and analyze everything and to be graded on everything
I just finished it for the first time at 26 and I was SHOCKED it was ever taught. I loved it and related to Holden and his thought processes so much, but I had always heard about how he’s insufferable and annoying.
I couldn’t imagine being in a highschool class and haveing a discussion about it, it would have absolutely torn me apart to know people thought so harshly about depression. And even then, I don’t think it’s even healthy. The themes of suicide and anhedonia would have completely swallowed me up and I feel like I would have ended up idolizing his struggles as “poetic”, you know, how teens do.
As an adult, it felt almost indulgent to go back to that headspace of feeling so lost and isolated, but without the added weight of adult responsibilities. Now everything has an additional layer of overwhelming guilt, along with a weird jealousy that I was never hospitalized for treatment, because failing to thrive is always putting your weight on someone else’s shoulders.
As an adult it felt comforting. As. A teen… I believe it would have been dangerous.
Love this! I had to read Catcher in the Rye in high school, but we didn’t actually talk about it much, it was more of an independent study type thing. And I don’t remember much from the novel at all, which is unfortunate (I do own a copy and will reread it someday). I think I might become an English teacher one day, and I hope to remember to encourage my students to read this on their own, outside of school or after they graduate from high school.
They generally don't teach the book in public schools as the whole preppy experience is so unrelatable to working class and students of color. It does nothing to generate disruptive change.
The book also fails to call out unjust bourgeois white supremacy and obliquely approves of capitalist class-based income inequality. Holden, a recipient of capitalist white privilege, lives on fifth avenue. Holden attends an expensive boarding school unavailable to poor students of color or undocumented new Americans of Latino extraction.
The book also perpetuates homophobia with its use of terms like "flit" to represent gay men. It unjustly attacks one of Holden's former teachers and his sexual orientation which may have been "MAP". Thus it denormalizes the condition of LGBTQIA++ people and their allies.
The only purpose of children's education must be toward engineering their minds to think properly and correctly. To equip them to make proper moral decisions. Anything thats not a part of the solution to our unjust racist society is part of the problem and can no longer be tolerated.
By failing to proffer a proper attack on the status quo, this book fails young students miserably by leading them toward outdated discredited thinking and must therefore be condemned as a work of counter-education. 'Catcher in the Rye' must be removed from all libraries and restricted from sale on Amazon, Kindle, and Barnes and Noble. Only academics have any business possessing it.
@@RaptorFromWeegee I can see that your liberal/woke education has failed you and I wouldn’t be surprised if you hadn’t actually read the book. While “Catcher in the Rye” isn’t perfect and may contain ideas or phrases from the time it was written, that doesn’t make the overall message bad. Nor does the containment of xyz problem mean it should be 100% banned and only possessed by academics. Clearly you’ve also never read Fahrenheit 451 and think it’s totally fine to censor information.
I read it in high school in my senior year, 1980, a Catholic school. It was a cut up.
The Catcher in the Rye is one of my favorite books, but I probably will never be able to read it again (I identify with Holden Caulfield so much that I had to take a break from the book because it made me cry).
I just finished “catcher in the rye” a couple minuetes ago. While I read it, I thought that I wouldn’t have enjoyed it as much if it was assigned as homework. I agree with what you said about “catcher in the rye” read organically.
I completely agree. I grew up in Russia and picked it up on my own at 14 and to this day (at 30yo) I still consider it my favourite book, and the one that shaped me.
JD Salinger worked in counter-intelligence for the military during World War 2. It is suspected some sort of trigger words are in it, and part of some sort of MK Ultra program geared at males (i.e. the guy accused of shooting rock star John Lennon dead in NYC had a copy of "Catcher in the Rye" on him, John Lennon was carrying his wife's ((Yoko Ono)) music demo "Walking on Thin Ice" at the time.) Some other assassination instances as such. The other suspicion I have is with Judith Rossner's "Looking for Mister Goodbar" geared toward females, but it is not required reading for high school students. I did not see that she served in the military but worked for publications like "Scientific American." I doubt anyone would criticize their great writing skills.
When I read this book in middle school, certain pages were will marked. ;^) Great video many thanks
Good discussion. I basically hated Shakespeare for the some of the same reasons you give for not wanting the teaching of, or mandating the reading of, CITR in high school. Still, if an individual high school teacher wanted his/her (("They/"Them"🙄)) students to read it, I would have no objections to such a thing even if I was a school administrator, (which I'm not).
I had very different ressons for wanting to read such a work......MUCH later than my high school years.😶
refreshing booktube channel!
I think there's a lot of books on the reading list in highschool that should wait to be read. Recently I tried to remember every book I had to read for English class in highschool. I realized that in 11th grade alone, we covered:
The Glass Castle
The Great Gatsby
The Scarlet Letter
The Crucible
East of Eden
Catcher in the Rye
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Huckleberry Finn
Death of a Sales Man
And those are only the ones I remember us covering, and I don't even fully remember the books themselves. How does anyone gain anything meaningful or substainable from any of these complex reads when they are covered in one academic year? A whole class could be taught on east of Eden alone.
Holy moly you had to read East of Eden in high school? I wouldn't even know how to begin to teach that book to my students! That's amazing you were reading that stuff at such a young age!
@@colorlesswonderland Honestly, it became one of my favorite books that year even though I had to skim read it/skip certain parts and ask people for details in order to finish it in time. I want to reread it as an adult, at my own pace.
I will Grier and Greeks Gatsby but I disagree on the other ones and I know why because I think the students aren’t really getting it especially with catcher of the rye because the fact is there is another Holden Caulfield there literally is I never Holden Caulfield and that is the present Holden Caulfield that dude is different than the one in the story that’s the key Takeaway here
Say things start later in the crucible like to to understand those things I think it’s really people are failing on it because of one thing there’s different offer there’s other present tense and past it’s going on especially in the crucible that’s acting like oh what happened before but that it has a connection to what’s going on with the red scare
In my own case, as groundbreaking as CITR was in regards to Holdens depressed feelings about the world around him. I read CI.TR at age 16 in 1967 and lacking in maturity, I immediately viewed Holden as a hero and role model. Like many male teens of that period I was pro non-conformist, I played guitar in a band and I failed to see the positive aspects of my upbringing combined with all the advantages afforded me. So, yes many impressionable teens don't have the maturity to read CITR.
I agree with much of your commentary. I'm 72 years old, and when I was in high school Catcher was a forbidden book (though mostly because of the "fuck you"s written in the school stairways). Of course I read it when I was a freshman, along with many other "forbidden" books, like Grapes of Wrath, Tropic of Cancer, and many other literary books like that (I couldn't afford to buy actual porn books then, and they were hard to find), which were in the public library.
I've read Catcher many times during my life, and have a like/dislike relationship with it. Yes, Holden sees the world as full of phonies, but he's not much better. His parents are rich, and he's going to an exclusive private school. Throughout the book he has no real contact with any actual working person. Not the prostitute. Not the cab driver. The girls he met in the nightclub in New York he basically thought of as airheads, hoping to meet movie stars.
In essence, Holden is a rich asshole.
All very good points you make. But I'm curious about how the book was originally forbidden. I'm guessing, based on your age, that this state of affairs existed in the early 1960s? I'm curious when it attained the status of a book they make kids read in school? Was it like `72? Cause we had to ready it in 8th grade (like 1977). Of course we were a progressive school just outside of New York.
I personally think it's not a natural loss of Innocence from consensual romance or inevitable tough experiences but a premature or brutal loss that Holden wants to stop. We're talking about kids being abused, molested, or serially bullied like the Castle boy who jumped out the window. He will catch them figuratively and/or literally if able so that the kids don't become irreparably damaged.
This was the one book they gave us to read in high school that I actually enjoyed and related to, so I have to disagree. We should instead have higher expectations of teachers and in general less rigid education.
I really liked your interpretation in this video. To be honest, when I finished reading this I didn't understand what was the point of the novel but what I got from it is some incomprehensible hatred for Holden. Yet you explained it in a short 14 minute video. I understand why I hate Holden because I relate to him in a sense that I hate conformity in the school education system. As a high schooler myself, I see myself conform to standardized testing, interacting with people I dislike, and basically being a "phony" and when I read this book (thankfully not because it's required) I disliked him because it made me realize that I was jealous. Basically what I'm saying is that I wish I could be nonconforming like him but I can't. Sorry for the long message, but your video actually helped me understand what I felt in the book in a more precise way. Thank you
I too hate Holden, but because he is one of the weakest mfs out there. He's delusional, pathetic, and tries his best not to fit in.
@@torshavnnewell Respect, Holden kinda tried being nonconforming by conforming to the idea of being cool
Why do you keep looking on your right before a cut
Great video! Loved this book in high school though, the only assigned reading I enjoyed. I think this book is for the damaged, but everyone can enjoy the psychology.
Great take on the book!
Thank you so much!!!
The book should be required reading.... in life... in college. As for high school, maybe yes, maybe no. Some teenagers will relate. But the book is very deep from multiple angles, and many teenagers will not full grasp it all. Either way, the book is extremely well-written.
Agreed. However, I recently watched a Yale course on Franny & Zooey.
It confirmed, taught and relieved. Though university and highschool are not the same, they share their fabric as institution, and in my experience, are equally disappointing.
To me this course did not disappoint, it did justice.
So I agree with you. But I wonder what your thoughts would be on this course.
PS I know Franny & Zooey is not Catcher, still, wonder what your take on it might be.
I know this will sound like people come up with anything. When I was a child I would throw tantrums at school, and Sunday school. Usually throwing and breaking everything as a revolt against my on off relationship with my parents, which I was staying with a babysitter who favored me over the other children at the time. I was only 7-10 years old was time period and I would go along with an assumption the psychiatrist had that I would 'black out' and comment these 'tantrums'. I agreed with him in thinking I was leading on the lie for attention I guess I was young and naive. It was a good way to get out of school since they placed me in ese classes simply for displinary reasons, I was not their for learning difficulties per say.I was diagnosed with a rare type of 'seizure with rage spikes'. I was sent to a brain monitoring facility where they performed ekgs on my brain and hooked wires to me for whole weekends at the time and I remember while I was there I was put into a room and an antagonist experiment similar to the one conducted on the college student in that one mkultra movie I forget the scene was where his teacher brings him into a theater room and makes him watch heinous images over and over trying to trigger his symptoms. Anyways I am 34 years old now and I just read the 1st chapter of 'Catcher in the rye' being inspired to buy the book after watching Mel Gibson/Julia Roberts movie "Conspiracy Theory". After reading 1st chapter I fell asleep and instantly not in my REM sleep cycle fell into a horrible nightmare hypnosis where a man I couldn't face had a baby carriage and the baby would come out and shapeshift Into some sort of demon and it was happening over and over in slightly different scenes, it was as if he was coming at me to possess me. Never had anything like this occured since When I was taking riddilen as a young child maybe 6 I had a series of horrific nightmares over two week period which stopped after I was taken off that medication. Point being maybe there is more to the story than people think. I put the book up after chapter one and refuse to read anymore of it. First novel I have tried to read in awhile I typically stay reading ancient Greek/Roman, non-fiction, and politically relevant books. I don't regard myself as easily hypnotizable but maybe I was partially hypnotized into being a sleeper cell but they didn't complete process...this is definitely a true story I am not insane. It was just a nightmare in any case maybe brought on about the hype of the book, but I don't really think so. The way it hit me was so perfect, and the epiphany afterwards so vivid. I understood the mind of a lunatic before I was able to come back to my senses.
I had a fine time in high school and I was never wearing a mask. I wasn't the type to be pressured into anything. Not by my friends and not by guys. There was not a lot of bullying but I did step in when I could to help someone with no fear of losing my own "social status". No major problems and I had a lot of fun socially. I had friends at my high school and also at other high schools near me. It's sad that so many people have awful experiences in high school. We were not assigned Catcher in the Rye in high school or in college. Reading it as an adult it didn't blow me away and I didn't understand what all the fuss was about. He was clearly not meant to be a hero or role model. There are certainly enough sad and tragic books, so why this is any different is beyond me.
I completely agree, except there's a problem. Yes, The Catcher in the Rye is ruined by the school environment, but this also applies to literally everything else in one way or another. The obvious conclusion being the immediate ending of the school system.
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This was a pretty good video
I personally found it to be a very interesting book to think about, & few other books stick in my mind or pop back up as often as it does.
I like catcher in the rye but for a very different reason than you do. It was an interesting book because partway through I realized that Holden is the biggest phony in the book. In his sadness he is blinded to the sincerity others hold, just as they don't try to understand him, he doesn't try to understand where the adults are coming from.
What happens after you look to your right, right before you cut?
So you agree with the book banners albeit for a different reason.
Gotcha.
If the movie is made in 90s I picture tobey meguire play holden or if the movie made in the 50s I picture marlon Brando they fit to play holden maybe James dean if he’s alive
best book ever-inspired me to write.
They made us read it in school. I hated the book so much
I read Catcher in the Rye at 30 and I'm glad I waited and didn't read it in high school.
wow i've never thought about it like that! i totally agree with you.
Thank you for commenting and I'm happy you agree! I look forward to seeing more of your comments!
My favourite book... hands down
High school is two words which begs me to ask if you graduated from high school?
I almost disliked the video because i disagreed with your opinion but you are just too darn likable to dislike. So I decided to like & comment instead.
Catcher in the rye was the ONLY book I enjoyed reading in high school & that’s the only reason I think it SHOULD be taught in school… for the kids like me ☺️
I’m not from United Stated, nonetheless I decided to read The catcher in the rye basically because it was a book that I always heard about, people saying is a bad book, why is this book a classic?, Holden is an idiot, Holden is hating on everything, and also you can only enjoy this book when you are a teenager, thus a decided to gave it an opportunity, my thoughts about this books are that Holden is the modern idea of what Peter Pan is, a boy scared of growing up, a person who does rather back to his childhood instead of keep on growing, what I do think is a respectable and accurate opinion, and I’d say this respond the causes of his demeanor, the phony thing may be the way how his wrath, disconcerting, sadness is represented, he is always thinking people is false merely because he is not conforming with the society he’s living in, the fact that he lives in a world when he’ll never stay the same, a world that make you maturate when you are not ready (I mean you never really are) the extract you did show is my favorite part by the way, and the reasons why I love this book so much, we all once or yet wanted to stay at a time forever but we couldn’t, times doesn’t come back we only go ): at the ending part it’s clear to understand Holden’s personality, with his sister on the horse, rounding and rounding, knowing she is going to grow some day and he is just concerned about here, such as he is with himself, definitely is a great book, despite of the narrative that would disconcert some people, and the ideas that at first sight seems stupid, nevertheless with the passing of the book they make sense, and also make you question yourself, and about the book in high school, well .... none book ought to be obliged to read haha, even so this book is something teens would be more interesting in, because of the simpleness in which is written, but the meaningful this that are hidden, i loved your opinion and the enthusiasm you did show. 🙏🏻(:
Thank you so much for your comment! I love comments like this because it shows just how passionate you are about this! I absolutely love the comparisons to Peter Pan here because that's a really fascinating way to look at this, especially since Peter Pan is often associated with family friendly content and The Catcher in the Rye isn't, despite the two containing similar themes.
I also love how you bring up the point of society trying to force us to mature even when we aren't ready which would help us understand Holden's interaction with Carl Luce more! Thank you again for the comment I love reading stuff like this!
half a century+ of literary theory went out the window in the first 3 min of the video that’s crazy
Wow you really misunderstood this book. He was molested. He's disociating and talking about ducks because he doesn't want to think about his experiences. Sex is a dangerous and vulnerable act holden can't just have fun with like his friends. That boy who jumped out the window was molested by the same teacher, he was the only one to touch the body.
I disagree, I read it in highschool and what changed my class drastically from a reserved boring class to a open readily willing to discuss freely the issues of the day
Great video. Interesting discussion. By chance, have you considered getting some bookshelves? LOL. Peace!
Haha lol, yes please for your books’ sake 🙏🏻
I like to live VERY dangerously
But I definitely do need bookshelves and 100% plan on buying them soon to spare my books from the agony
That is. nonsense. Discipline doesn't mean the end of individuality. Taking direction from other people, or doing things as a group, including standardized testing and activity doesnt mean the end of individuality. You dont need to be a hedonist with no rules to keep your individuality. Your individuality is pointless if it rules over you.
the book is like sex, if you waited 'til after High School it's too late.
This gave me and my roomates an audible chuckle so thank you for that!
I had to read TCITR in high school.
Glad I did.
Definitely pretty racey tho TBH.
I 100% agree. 1000%.
Shit you are looking fit man 😶
The only reason I would not recommend this book to anyone is because it’s a road to no where. From what I remember, Holden does not grow as a character, he does not evolve. He’s a whiny b!tch throughout the whole story. Just when you think he’s going to have an epiphany, he doesn’t.
I'm nearly 60. I had to put up with being taught this in high school and college...and i was an English lit major. And while it has its place as a tool for helping to generate critical thinking reflection introspection etcetera, as with most of these self-obsessed deep thinkers his own life was in some ways a parody of everything that he seemed to be complaining about. Yeah I know he was World War II combat veteran etc. In the end though kind of like David Crosby lecturing people on how to be parents and he was such a dirtbag himself.... you get the idea. Do I think this book should be taught in school? Sure why not. But I think the narcissism and self-obsession and self-absorption of the author to say nothing of the character put on full display absolute hypocrisy and arrested development. And for someone who was in love with studying Eastern religion religion and philosophy Salinger sure seem not to get it
See this is a stupid reason this actually forgets and this is a big thing I think most people forget about is that there are two Holden Caulfield there’s the past one the one who’s doing all that stuff and there’s the other Holden Caulfield the one that’s telling you what he did that’s the present tense that’s the one who wrote the story that’s the one telling you how are you got to this point
I think mr entolini was creepy and weird
everyone should read it
No honestly I completely disagree that I think it needs to be taught is the way that it’s been touched kind of makes me feel like it people are failing at the message of this because well the truth is nobody wants to know the truth about their own life and so they’ll see that Holden Caufield basically them and yet they’re getting mad because they don’t like that the truth is coming out about them in a way they want to feel secured just like him
But every high school student should watch the breakfast club
I have read everything but Catcher...
Nice review. Its a little hard to focus on what you are saying a lot of the time though. Talking with your hands and turning your head to your laptop is very distracting. I had to look away to be able to pay attention.
I rather catcher in the rye taught in school than the scarlet letter I hated that book