All great compasses. I have trained and utilized both, plus the addition of the M2 (I've even navigated with it although I do not reccommend it for folks whom are not very comfortable with compasses). For navigating, I would use either the Cammenga or Suunto MC2. The non-declinating aspect of the Cammenga can be overcome by just getting used to adding or subtracting as needed based upon the date found in the declination chart on the bottom of the map. For laying a howitzer battery or mortar section, calling for and adjusting fire, or laying out a property line, I would use the M2.
I have both compasses. As a field archaeologist since 1976 I have used the Silva Ranger base plate for all my work because of the reasons you have mentioned, plus the fact that the side rulers scales are in sync with the USGS topographic 7.5 maps 1:24,000 scale; whereas the lensatic Cammenga uses the 1:50,000 scale which is primarily designed to use with Military maps or 15 minute maps which are harder to get.
I'd say the biggest difference between the two is that the Lensatic tends to be more durable. Liquid compasses suffer from a critical problem: over time a bubble tends to appear on them. At first this isn't a problem, but over time the bubble only grows, interfering with the needle and making the compass completely unusable. The main thing that causes a bubble to appear is a difference in pressure. If you go up to a mountain of 3 or 4 thousand meters, when you come down there will certainly be a bubble in the compass. Therefore, if you live in areas with variations in terrain and altitudes, liquid compasses are certainly not suitable if you want to rely on them for the long term. I have the MC-2 and the M-3, both global. I also have the Brunto GeoTransit, southern hemisphere, I'm from Brazil. I bought this more than 10 years ago, when my country's currency was still worth something; today it would be impossible for me to buy it.
Glad to see you back, good video! Like you said most of us in the Military (I served in 2/75 Rangers) got quite familiar with the Cammenga tritium lensatic compass. I continue to use it, but started using the Suunto MC-2 compass years ago, I carry the Cammenga as a backup, because I began teaching civilians and Boy Scouts land navigation, etc. My only other comment is: since most people won't be going overseas, a "G" global compass is not necessary and is more expensive.
For functionality, the Suunto. But for durability, something that will survive, the Cammenga. With that, I prefer the Cammenga as yes, you can do many things with the Suunto, but if you work with and know your compass, for me, the Cammenga is the compass of choice first time everytime.
Great video, thank you. I was a 19d Scout in the Army. Love my tritium but agree the baseplate style is very useful. Make the Sunnto with tritium and win the world. Take care man.
Who needs tritium with phosphors holding for hours. Where older tritium are burned out. Silva 54 baseplate is tritium, should be the world, has prismatic build in so it's a better lensatic too.
I like the Cammenga for its durability and lack of bubbles. I have learned how to use it on a map without a protractor, and clicking in the declination is trivial, so I don't see the downsides others complain about. I make my 1:50000 and 1:25000 maps for free with CalTopo. Having a compass with an adjustable declination is a double edged sword. It can either simplify things or it can double your error if you get it wrong. I do carry a cheap Silva 1-2-3 compass as a backup because two is one, one is none.
I do the same. The Camenga is bombproof, so I always take it, and once you understand how to convert between magnetic north and grid north it becomes second nature. I also bring the Sunto, but I just can’t trust my life to something made of plastic. It’s a great compass, and it’s convenient to not have to worry about declination, but like you said, it is a double edge sword. I recommend that anyone serious about navigation should learn to use both
We (our navigator) made that error 50 years ago one whole morning. So it exists. On the other hand the persistence of the Cammenga is a display of human resilience. There is an older video where a soldier puts down rifle and helmet to use his Cammenga.
I have used both the M-2 as a Field Artillerymen (13B) and when I became "Warrior Leader Course Instructor I was putting out Land Nav markers I really fell in love Suunto MC-2 for it's ease of use. Living in Colorado it's my camping and backpacking go to for plotting my bearing. From one Old Red Leg to a Grunt thanks for your service buddy to our great country.
It’s always good to hear from fellow veterans. I agree and find the Suunto compass an invaluable piece of gear on my backpacking adventures. Stay safe on your wilderness adventures in Colorado. It is a great state for some hardcore backpacking adventures. I have backpacked the Weminuche Wilderness, and the Lost Creek Wilderness areas, and I hope to do some more wilderness backpacking there in the future.
@@TheAmericanBackpacker *Since "lensatic" means with a lens, what could the advantages be of a "non-lensatic" compass?* *Dave Canterbury recommends "non-lensatic", why?*
@@Christian_Prepper The use of a lensatic vs non-lensatic compass differs. For sighting the former is held close to the face. The latter is held at arms length. DaveC has a school. He has to focus on teaching one method. The MC-2 is more versatile as stated in this video and the attached comments. Remember the compass you want is the one you know how to use. Buy either or both and practice.
Good explanation, thank you for showing the proper use of the Lensatic. It seems like in so many other videos they fold the sight wire down to about 45 degrees. Then they’ll fold the lens bracket forward to meet it. Sight wire should be at 90 and lens back for compass to cheek method. And thanks again, I’ve been using it for yrs and never noticed that the whole dial moves on the Lensatic. It seems obvious now but I never noticed that difference before. Also, the military uses the model 3H. Yours says model 27?
I enjoyed your video. I have not used a compass for walking trails / mid wilderness since I was in the Boy Scouts 52 years ago. Reading instructions from a book is a pain ... Do you know of any video that teaches how to use the Suuonto MC2 compass?
If one would set up the map one is using with the lines drawn indicating true north (taking into act declination) then the lensatic could bed used very easily.
Quick question. Been looking at a new compass, and your videos have convinced me to get the Suunto M2-C G. Even though most likely only use in northern hemisphere. Live in USA. My question is which version do you recommend? I see UTM USGS, various metric , imperial and such. Intend to us with USGS topo maps. Watched your whole series on land navigation. Thank very much for these excellent teaching videos!
Go with the MC2G USGS UTM. This particular compass has metric and imperial. This is the compass I use. On it you will see kilometers and miles. below is a link to Bass Pro with the compass I have. The link below is for your review. Please look around online for a price which may be lower. Thanks for watching my videos. www.basspro.com/shop/en/suunto-mc-2-g-usgs-mirror-compass?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&ds_e=GOOGLE&ds_c=BPS%7CShopping%7CPMax%7CCamping%7CGeneral%7CNAud%7CNVol%7CNMT&gclid=Cj0KCQjw06-oBhC6ARIsAGuzdw1BR35ljUTaLzJen18kKU7F8V9S7s6AOULUzJwsJvlX04PXtqeSarwaAn8eEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Can someone please answer the below questions? - When conducting land navigation in open country, is the lensatic a better option? as you can take a bearing to another point far away for better accuracy. - is using the baseplate a better option for close country/forest? Im practicing my in thick forest, and i notice that the baseplate is FAR more effective (much quicker rate of march) than the lensatic. I used to use the lensatic but i found it useless in the forest due to limited visibility. Its also impractical when i reach obstacles as 'boxing' around it would take mental effort and calculations that were often inaccurate. Since changeing to the baseplate, i have been able to do navigation legs up to 4km in thick forest, within 300m of the target. I sacrifice a bit of accuracy for speed but i aim off and use catching features so i know where i will be. When i navigate obstacles using the baseplate, i just approximate how many paces left or right im taking to bypass it and find i naturally correct myself back onto my bearing line. This has taken some practice. Does anyone else think the baseplate is superior in forests?
I use both and only prefer the baseplate mirror compass because of the ease of use doing mapwork. However, I get the same accuracy with both. If you go around obstacles like a pond, you could also leave a (degradable) mark on your bearing, like toilet paper on a twig, go around the obstacle and take the backbearing to the mark. That way your navigation will be much more accurate than just doing an approximation. And you can show off your awesome navigation skills to any companions. 😁
I have the Lensatic. Can't seem to take it due to weight. BUT I hate the baseplate as they develop bubbles. I think I have 6 of them and they all have a bubble.
I've found, over the years using both, that the weight is worth it if you're actually COUNTING on using a compass for land nav. If you're just using GPS and the compass is a backup, just get a small mirrored baseplate compass and wear it between your layers. I've only had bubbles from flying with it or letting it get too cold... both situations I was able to simply leave the compass in a warm window or dash of my car for a while and the bubble will disappear.
I have a question. I bought my Camenga years ago. It was $70, so I’m guessing about 20 years ago. I bought the tritium version , but the tritium has lost its ability to be seen in the dark due to age. Is there any way to rectify this? Is there any type of tritium paint or something that I can use to restore its night navigation capabilities? It’s not a deal breaker, and I don’t intentionally navigate at night, but I like the security of knowing I can should the need arise. I would hate to buy another one for $100-120 simply because of the tritium. This compass has proven its accuracy and reliability to me many times over, and to be honest, I’m sentimentally attached to it 🤷. Thanks
Depending on how old your compass is the current seller of Cammenga compasses may be able to revitalize the tritium on your compass. I am not sure what that age requirement is. I believe it runs about 50 dollars which is about half the cost of a new one. Call them and find out if they can do it. The end cost to include shipping may make you want to purchase a new one.
Myself do not like fixing the declination (to a single place). It is not difficult to just adjust the degrees rather than having to mess around with the screw becuase this time am in Yellowstone not Boston. Then again one does not hsve to use it and do it,what to me anyway, is the easy way. Just me.
Too much credence is given to lensatic compasses or even mirror compasses, the cammenga compass is accurate to +/- 2.25 degrees or +/- 40 mils. So being able to see the exact degree or mil doesnt really help you that much. The silva expedition S compass is accurate to +/- 1 degree. And all this is assuming they are not being influenced by any nearby metal, or ferrous rocks. And it just gets worse if you dont take magnetic declination into account.
all word best compass have suunto factory made. all other have something worst sure. i live near suunto factory and has visiting manytime to factory and have sure totally best compass and other compas and dive computer and weather balloon and other parts made in world. all weather station, and ofiicial army and other who need sure perfect weather,diving,or compass measure parts buy only suunto parts. because have only official accurate parts in world.
The Sunto MC-2G is dog shit. I bought one three years ago and it was nice at first. But within the first few months the North needle began to stick and I wound up constantly second-guessing myself. In the second year an air bubble formed inside the dial (it's a fluid-filled compass). Having decided to get a new compass I researched this Sunto model and found numerous reviews reporting the same thing. Some people say get the non-global model instead, but upon reading the reviews on that model I see more reports of the same. I won't buy another Sunto MC-2.
All great compasses. I have trained and utilized both, plus the addition of the M2 (I've even navigated with it although I do not reccommend it for folks whom are not very comfortable with compasses).
For navigating, I would use either the Cammenga or Suunto MC2. The non-declinating aspect of the Cammenga can be overcome by just getting used to adding or subtracting as needed based upon the date found in the declination chart on the bottom of the map.
For laying a howitzer battery or mortar section, calling for and adjusting fire, or laying out a property line, I would use the M2.
I have both compasses. As a field archaeologist since 1976 I have used the Silva Ranger base plate for all my work because of the reasons you have mentioned, plus the fact that the side rulers scales are in sync with the USGS topographic 7.5 maps 1:24,000 scale; whereas the lensatic Cammenga uses the 1:50,000 scale which is primarily designed to use with Military maps or 15 minute maps which are harder to get.
I'd say the biggest difference between the two is that the Lensatic tends to be more durable. Liquid compasses suffer from a critical problem: over time a bubble tends to appear on them. At first this isn't a problem, but over time the bubble only grows, interfering with the needle and making the compass completely unusable.
The main thing that causes a bubble to appear is a difference in pressure. If you go up to a mountain of 3 or 4 thousand meters, when you come down there will certainly be a bubble in the compass. Therefore, if you live in areas with variations in terrain and altitudes, liquid compasses are certainly not suitable if you want to rely on them for the long term.
I have the MC-2 and the M-3, both global. I also have the Brunto GeoTransit, southern hemisphere, I'm from Brazil. I bought this more than 10 years ago, when my country's currency was still worth something; today it would be impossible for me to buy it.
Glad to see you back, good video!
Like you said most of us in the Military (I served in 2/75 Rangers) got quite familiar with the Cammenga tritium lensatic compass.
I continue to use it, but started using the Suunto MC-2 compass years ago, I carry the Cammenga as a backup, because I began teaching civilians and Boy Scouts land navigation, etc.
My only other comment is: since most people won't be going overseas, a "G" global compass is not necessary and is more expensive.
Excellent! Good to have you back on RUclips.
For functionality, the Suunto. But for durability, something that will survive, the Cammenga. With that, I prefer the Cammenga as yes, you can do many things with the Suunto, but if you work with and know your compass, for me, the Cammenga is the compass of choice first time everytime.
Great video, thank you. I was a 19d Scout in the Army. Love my tritium but agree the baseplate style is very useful. Make the Sunnto with tritium and win the world. Take care man.
Who needs tritium with phosphors holding for hours. Where older tritium are burned out.
Silva 54 baseplate is tritium, should be the world, has prismatic build in so it's a better lensatic too.
1st video in a year. He’s back!
They both work, but I find the baseplate compass far more intuitive and easy to read.
You can shave with the mirror on the Suunto!
I like the Cammenga for its durability and lack of bubbles. I have learned how to use it on a map without a protractor, and clicking in the declination is trivial, so I don't see the downsides others complain about. I make my 1:50000 and 1:25000 maps for free with CalTopo. Having a compass with an adjustable declination is a double edged sword. It can either simplify things or it can double your error if you get it wrong. I do carry a cheap Silva 1-2-3 compass as a backup because two is one, one is none.
I do the same. The Camenga is bombproof, so I always take it, and once you understand how to convert between magnetic north and grid north it becomes second nature. I also bring the Sunto, but I just can’t trust my life to something made of plastic. It’s a great compass, and it’s convenient to not have to worry about declination, but like you said, it is a double edge sword. I recommend that anyone serious about navigation should learn to use both
You must be my doppelganger. I would have written the same comment.
I posted a run down on using the Commenga without a protractor on Oshawa Bushcraft (Canada). Also Nova Scotia Canada.
We (our navigator) made that error 50 years ago one whole morning. So it exists.
On the other hand the persistence of the Cammenga is a display of human resilience. There is an older video where a soldier puts down rifle and helmet to use his Cammenga.
I carry one of each in my backpack.
Just in case.
Great presentation!
👍🇺🇸
I have used both the M-2 as a Field Artillerymen (13B) and when I became "Warrior Leader Course Instructor I was putting out Land Nav markers I really fell in love Suunto MC-2 for it's ease of use. Living in Colorado it's my camping and backpacking go to for plotting my bearing. From one Old Red Leg to a Grunt thanks for your service buddy to our great country.
It’s always good to hear from fellow veterans. I agree and find the Suunto compass an invaluable piece of gear on my backpacking adventures. Stay safe on your wilderness adventures in Colorado. It is a great state for some hardcore backpacking adventures. I have backpacked the Weminuche Wilderness, and the Lost Creek Wilderness areas, and I hope to do some more wilderness backpacking there in the future.
@@TheAmericanBackpacker *Since "lensatic" means with a lens, what could the advantages be of a "non-lensatic" compass?*
*Dave Canterbury recommends "non-lensatic", why?*
@@Christian_Prepper The use of a lensatic vs non-lensatic compass differs. For sighting the former is held close to the face. The latter is held at arms length. DaveC has a school. He has to focus on teaching one method. The MC-2 is more versatile as stated in this video and the attached comments. Remember the compass you want is the one you know how to use. Buy either or both and practice.
Good explanation, thank you for showing the proper use of the Lensatic. It seems like in so many other videos they fold the sight wire down to about 45 degrees. Then they’ll fold the lens bracket forward to meet it. Sight wire should be at 90 and lens back for compass to cheek method.
And thanks again, I’ve been using it for yrs and never noticed that the whole dial moves on the Lensatic. It seems obvious now but I never noticed that difference before.
Also, the military uses the model 3H. Yours says model 27?
3H denotes the compass illumination is tritium. They make non tritium models too and they are marked differently
I enjoyed your video. I have not used a compass for walking trails / mid wilderness since I was in the Boy Scouts 52 years ago. Reading instructions from a book is a pain ... Do you know of any video that teaches how to use the Suuonto MC2 compass?
I have videos here on my site under the playlist called Land Navigation which you can review at your own leisure.
What do you think about the HUGE Sunnto logo on the new ones blocking the map.
I have not seen it yet. Is it on the Sunnto website ?
Declination is different depending on which coast you are + or - ( East or West ).
If one would set up the map one is using with the lines drawn indicating true north (taking into act declination) then the lensatic could bed used very easily.
Quick question. Been looking at a new compass, and your videos have convinced me to get the Suunto M2-C G. Even though most likely only use in northern hemisphere. Live in USA. My question is which version do you recommend? I see UTM USGS, various metric , imperial and such. Intend to us with USGS topo maps. Watched your whole series on land navigation. Thank very much for these excellent teaching videos!
Go with the MC2G USGS UTM. This particular compass has metric and imperial. This is the compass I use. On it you will see kilometers and miles. below is a link to Bass Pro with the compass I have. The link below is for your review. Please look around online for a price which may be lower. Thanks for watching my videos.
www.basspro.com/shop/en/suunto-mc-2-g-usgs-mirror-compass?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&ds_e=GOOGLE&ds_c=BPS%7CShopping%7CPMax%7CCamping%7CGeneral%7CNAud%7CNVol%7CNMT&gclid=Cj0KCQjw06-oBhC6ARIsAGuzdw1BR35ljUTaLzJen18kKU7F8V9S7s6AOULUzJwsJvlX04PXtqeSarwaAn8eEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Thank you very much @TheAmericanBackpacker !!
@@TheAmericanBackpacker Thank you very much!
@TheAmericanBackpacker >>> Great video. Subbed...👍
Great video! Subscribed!
New sub - great video!
Can someone please answer the below questions?
- When conducting land navigation in open country, is the lensatic a better option? as you can take a bearing to another point far away for better accuracy.
- is using the baseplate a better option for close country/forest? Im practicing my in thick forest, and i notice that the baseplate is FAR more effective (much quicker rate of march) than the lensatic. I used to use the lensatic but i found it useless in the forest due to limited visibility. Its also impractical when i reach obstacles as 'boxing' around it would take mental effort and calculations that were often inaccurate.
Since changeing to the baseplate, i have been able to do navigation legs up to 4km in thick forest, within 300m of the target. I sacrifice a bit of accuracy for speed but i aim off and use catching features so i know where i will be.
When i navigate obstacles using the baseplate, i just approximate how many paces left or right im taking to bypass it and find i naturally correct myself back onto my bearing line. This has taken some practice.
Does anyone else think the baseplate is superior in forests?
I use both and only prefer the baseplate mirror compass because of the ease of use doing mapwork. However, I get the same accuracy with both.
If you go around obstacles like a pond, you could also leave a (degradable) mark on your bearing, like toilet paper on a twig, go around the obstacle and take the backbearing to the mark. That way your navigation will be much more accurate than just doing an approximation. And you can show off your awesome navigation skills to any companions. 😁
I have the Lensatic. Can't seem to take it due to weight. BUT I hate the baseplate as they develop bubbles. I think I have 6 of them and they all have a bubble.
I've found, over the years using both, that the weight is worth it if you're actually COUNTING on using a compass for land nav. If you're just using GPS and the compass is a backup, just get a small mirrored baseplate compass and wear it between your layers.
I've only had bubbles from flying with it or letting it get too cold... both situations I was able to simply leave the compass in a warm window or dash of my car for a while and the bubble will disappear.
And what's wrong with a bubble? Besides, bubbles not being pink.
What is that wire thing on on the compass?
I’m not sure which compass you’re talking about but if it is the Lensatic compass it is the sighting line for shooting an azimuth.
Agreed. Baseplate is the way to go
I have a question. I bought my Camenga years ago. It was $70, so I’m guessing about 20 years ago. I bought the tritium version , but the tritium has lost its ability to be seen in the dark due to age. Is there any way to rectify this? Is there any type of tritium paint or something that I can use to restore its night navigation capabilities? It’s not a deal breaker, and I don’t intentionally navigate at night, but I like the security of knowing I can should the need arise. I would hate to buy another one for $100-120 simply because of the tritium. This compass has proven its accuracy and reliability to me many times over, and to be honest, I’m sentimentally attached to it 🤷. Thanks
Depending on how old your compass is the current seller of Cammenga compasses may be able to revitalize the tritium on your compass. I am not sure what that age requirement is. I believe it runs about 50 dollars which is about half the cost of a new one. Call them and find out if they can do it. The end cost to include shipping may make you want to purchase a new one.
Thanks
Myself do not like fixing the declination (to a single place). It is not difficult to just adjust the degrees rather than having to mess around with the screw becuase this time am in Yellowstone not Boston. Then again one does not hsve to use it and do it,what to me anyway, is the easy way. Just me.
Too much credence is given to lensatic compasses or even mirror compasses, the cammenga compass is accurate to +/- 2.25 degrees or +/- 40 mils. So being able to see the exact degree or mil doesnt really help you that much. The silva expedition S compass is accurate to +/- 1 degree. And all this is assuming they are not being influenced by any nearby metal, or ferrous rocks.
And it just gets worse if you dont take magnetic declination into account.
all word best compass have suunto factory made. all other have something worst sure. i live near suunto factory and has visiting manytime to factory and have sure totally best compass and other compas and dive computer and weather balloon and other parts made in world. all weather station, and ofiicial army and other who need sure perfect weather,diving,or compass measure parts buy only suunto parts. because have only official accurate parts in world.
The Sunto MC-2G is dog shit. I bought one three years ago and it was nice at first. But within the first few months the North needle began to stick and I wound up constantly second-guessing myself. In the second year an air bubble formed inside the dial (it's a fluid-filled compass). Having decided to get a new compass I researched this Sunto model and found numerous reviews reporting the same thing. Some people say get the non-global model instead, but upon reading the reviews on that model I see more reports of the same. I won't buy another Sunto MC-2.