I use vertical louvers that allow just whatever amount of light I want -you can buy them extra thick, in a cork surface, tend to be cat proof (they destroy curtains as a climbing challenge) and do deflect sound.
Density is a factor. If the curtains are stretched across the window so that they have shallow undulations, I can understand how they wouldn't do much in the way of sound absorption. But if you added a second pair to each window, the undulations would be steeper and the surface area would be increased which would certainly increase their effectiveness . They may even look more sculptural bunched closer together.
Pro tip: do not cut the curtains if they are too long. Get the seamstress /taylor to fold pleats at the bottom. The extra weight down low helps keep the curtains from blowing when there is a breeze.
Oh yes, curtains. When I did mine (but I wanted to have dark room, it was not planned to be accoustic treatment - maybe as a side effect) I noticed a big difference in dialog in movies. And I am not an audiophile. I have a cheap mini stereo system. But the difference is so big.
It’s hard to imagine that a $50 curtain would make a noticeable difference in a room that had thousands of dollars worth of sound treatment already. Seems that a more reasonable test would be to hang them up in a ‘normal’ room and compare the measurements. Interesting idea though.
Thanks for the review! I was considering buying these curtains based on the product description. I play music in my office and my office neighbors sometime complain that the sound bleeds through into their office. Now, I know it would be a waste of money. Oh well...
If you're comparing measurements of FR and RT60 with the curtains open and closed, keep in mind that for both measurements the curtains are still in the room. I think a better basis for comparison would be to completely remove the curtains from the room and start with that measurement. (It'll still probably be negligible... )
As a studio designer , audio engineer and acoustician, curtains and carpets make pretty much zero difference until you buy specific acoustic curtains with a substantial NRC.
It’s all about mass. Those are thin and light. I’ve got double lined heavy blackout curtains covering 50% of my walls. Probably ~20-25 lbs of material. It’s helped a noticeable amount. Clap test, fans are quieter. How much? Maybe 3-5db in the high end. Who knows, maybe some cleaver engineering could do more with less but I doubt there’s a substantial way to reduce sound without mass or power. Something’s gotta give.
They work to block out the sound of plates clinking, and they help block the sound of my neighbors having conversations outside of my big picture windows while my birds are trying to sleep. So I’m happy with them.
I want my listening room to look like the Black Lodge from Twin Peaks. Curtains everywhere! I have a lot of windows in my office, even along the wall behind my speakers. My thick curtains make a huge difference. And I love that they block out all the light as a bonus. I can't think of a solution for removing window sound reflections while still letting in the light.
The reason it shows a negligible improvement at the higher frequencies is that the wavelength is much shorter and easier to absorb. Low frequency long wavelength as you know is much,much harder to absorb
Hi, I have measured and done research on materials in an acoustics laboratory. We also perform ISO354 measurements. Curtains do not ISOLATE sound, they are simply not heavy enough. You would need curtains that have a surface weight of 20kg/m² to have a bit of isolation. Curtains that heavy cannot function as curtains. In terms of absorption, they can work. But I think you forgot to mention this, the IKEA product description mentions that the curtains should be placed 10-15 cm off the wall for optimum performance. The curtains should also be draped so that there are folds (so not entirely open). These are typically also the recommendations that acousticians give. Even though I didn't find any measurement data (of ISO354), it's likely that the way you hung and opened the curtains did not deliver the highest sound absorption possible. Again, no sound absorption coefficient so I cannot say if this would make a difference. Another aspect is surface area. The surface area of the curtains in your room, and any typical room, is rather small. The larger the surface area of a material, the more if affects the sound field in a room. My guess is that the sound absorption coefficient of these curtains is quite low (expert speak: it looks like the flow resistivity is too low for that) even with optimal placement.
They could probably dampen noticeably if the room was empty hehe, but when a room is fully furnished and decorated a thin piece of fabric won`t make any difference, not that I`ve done measurements, but I`ve been in empty rooms where there were curtains in place and after getting a couch, a carpet (covering maybe 1/5th of the floor) as well as a desk, THAT makes a huge difference (: not too many people bring a bag and their sound system when moving into a new place, but those were the circumstances at the time hehe..
Great video. Not surprised with this result. I'm currently in the process of building acoustic panels and one of the properties of the cloth going on the outside of the absorber that is important is that it's breathable / light can get through. As soon as you said light could get through I was thinking "it will be surprising if this works at all". The only curtains that I would imagine contribute to acoustics of the room would be the THICK acoustic curtains that literally have an extra layer of felt INSIDE the fabric. And even then I can't imagine it doing much below 1 khz? and at that point.... you might as well get a real acoustic panel and just have it on wheels or something and slide it in front of the window when you want to, since these thick curtains probably won't look that great anyways. Internet dummy here - not an acoustician or sound engineer, etc.
Argghh! I fell for the click-bait headline! But at the same time Im relieved it was just that and that the channel is not closing down due to health issues, war or anything else. And I liked the content.
I've seen a few comments like this. Yes, the material is still in the room when the curtains are open. But the larger point is that whenn the curtains are open, the windows are exposed to sound. And windows are potentially refelective surfaces like a wall, the ceiling or the floor. The idea behind sound absorbing curtains is that by covering up those reflective surfaces you can (but not always) reduce the reverb.
You had me laughing very hard at the first time, but again it's a very good made video in so many ways. I think you could even inform me about tax return thingymagic and I would be happy to watch it. And it's extremly nice to see you building from ground up and doing those measurements for the tech heads among your viewers.
Thank you for this John! I was considering curtains as a kind of "room treatment" in the room where my other system is. I'm glad I've watched this video before I splashed 70 EUR on a pair of curtains (that's what they cost here at IKEA Serbia).
One reason why I love my headphones, of which I have quite a few, is that I can listen to music without these concerns. I first got really into headphones when I lived in a flat in London in the 90s. I didn't want to disturb my neighbours with music so headphones were a great option. Anyway I now live in a detached house in Brighton but I still listen to music with headphones primarily, I'm into the way of it. I don't want to have to make changes to the rooms in my house, I like the way they are. With really good headphones the sound quality is truly stunning, way ahead of what can be achieved for the same price with speakers. I do know that John has made these points at various times himself. I do think that a lot of audiophiles might like to have a look at the excellence of good quality of headphones, if you haven't tried them you might be surprised at just what can be achieved. I do think that this is an interesting video anyway, I do like that John addresses broader issues of audio rather than just reviewing components all the time.
Couple of things: RT60 tends to be very inaccurate on the bass frequencies. You should take several measurements to see how much fluctuarion there is. I think that the difference in RT60 curtains open and closed was just measurement uncertainty. For higher frequencies you could also take a look on impulse response whether there would be reduction of reflection spikes coming from the side walls. Also worth pointing out that the curtains will have impact on the RT60 regardless being open or closed. And to extend the impact more towards lower treble and upper mids, you should have so much curtains that they are folded even when pulled in front of the windows.
Yeah, only the thick curtains will give the room a bit more of a 'warmer' sound. I'm roughly guessing that velvet curtains, with lining, would be the best. I suppose most people would assume that, but you have to either like the look of them, or put up with them if sound is your priority. :)
The old rubber-backed paisley-print velvet drapes from the 60s/70s. 7' lengths. I had loads of these in both red and gold. Likely came from Sears. They were brilliant at calming a bright reflective surface. Wish I still had them.
Frankly I would have been surprised if a lightweight, semi-opaque bit of cloth made much difference. Speaker grills, which are intended to be acoustically transparent, come to mind.
I’m a huge IKEA fan myself and got really excited in the early stage of the video. I also have to add curtains to address reverberation and this sounded like a great solution (at first) but unfortunately not. One thing about the measurements: with the curtains open you have a more compsct stack of fabric to absorb sound but more locally. A third measurement in the same timeframe with the curtains taken down would be interesting in the comparison. As for my setup, I guess I have to get some thick curtains that do the job 🙄
What about prior to any curtains at all, because close or open they still provide a dampening factor despite the window reverberation. Same with the flat closed vs rippled, sometimes it’s not just about absorption but dispersion. Anyways I think they look good in your new sanctuary!
It would be interesting to see the variation between multiple measurements (frequency response and RT60) at the listening position for a given listening configuration (e.g., curtains open). To account for the uncertainty in individual measurements, it might be worth averaging multiple measurements at the listening position for a given listening configuration and then comparing that to an averaged set of measurements for a different listening configuration.
John, another significantly sized reflective surface is your LED screen behind you. I wonder if you hung a thick fleecy fabric over the screen, would you hear (and measure) less reverb in your room? Really enjoy your videos, including all the ones on room treatments.
curtains open and closed probably isn't a big enough audible difference, but with or without curtains might be. Or prior to the Vicoustic treatments, I'm sure the curtains would be a noticeable difference. I'm sure you are at the point of diminishing returns. I'm glad you've optimized your listening area though and described the process and changes you have heard and measured. Thank you!
Darko, You don't need to make a whole video about Ikea curtains. It's simple, if they let light through then they will let sound through. You need heavy curtains (with multiple layers of high density fabric sandwiched) like the ones they have in theatres, even there they have two sets with a air gap between. These theatre curtains only stop mid range and hi frequency, for bass you need curtains made of concrete, lead, sand (inert materials).
Those are way too thin to make any real impact IMHO. For what its worth, you don't have to close the curtains to gain the sound absorption. I have a set from another manufacturer on my sliding door to the patio and they are full light blocking (3 layers, with heavy felt in the middle). They typically remain open and pushed/bunched to the sides out of the way as more of a window dressing. Because they are on my door, they stand out from the wall about 3" and provide an extra air-gap. They still work just fine removing much of my room's reverb and it is really all about the mass they provide. Yes, perhaps they'd work slightly better spread out across the entire door, but not as much as you would think.
back to the drawing board John been there well ended up with double lined heavy curtains .lol mind you living in the North of Scotland probably good buy 😊
Great. Love, love, love your attitude and style towards what you do. These curtains was a bit audiophile graded, but now you focus on the audiophile plants. They do more then thin IKEAs. Hold on, you might buy plants at IKEA!! What are you going to do? Berliner IKEA plants? Achtung!
Many viewers rely on you to accurately guide them toward an improvement in their quality of life. I'm glad you are calling attention to the utility of readily obtainable decor products to help achieve that end. Your comments, E. G. 7:35, present concerning information inconsistencies from the IKEA link you provide. Some viewers might not be familiar with drape sizing and fitting conventions. Your presentation does little to change that. Mentioning briefly the services of a skilled fabric craft person is hardly adequate for the uninitiated, but a good beginning for many of us. Thank you for your well intended efforts. Hopefully your presentation will stimulate viewers to welcome alternative means to improve their audio environment, decor, and experience. Thanks for all your contributions. Wish you the best for the future.
You should have measured it with the curtains closed and without them at all. if you don't even put it on, the difference would definitely be bigger, since it absorbs the sound even in the open position. Great video anyway!
Hi John, if you’re up for some experimentation, you might consider adding a second pair to each window. When closed, they will hang fuller and have a more uneven surface. More like they look now when open. Could be a shot in the dark, but I have a feeling it might help. Good luck. Love your channel - Kelly
I think these curtains, when using just a few (square meters) of them don't do a lot. But still the difference between closed and open is probably not the main thing. The fact that they are installed in the room might be the most significant difference. Open or closed...
Don't forget that your Umik-1 has an accuracy of +-1 dB. For best results, do each measurement looped at least 3 times. If you did that, the difference would probably be smaller.
Have you repeated the test more than once? Cause with REW and an UMIC-1 Mic I get slightly different RT60 every time I measure, even if nothing changes in the room, even repeating the test immediately after...so the differences you see might not even be "real". Especially in the 100Hz, I don't think a curtain can do something in that low area.
Oh John your not finished yet you have to investigate “Large Pot Plants” used as bass traps and sound diffusers to add to your “April” Greening The Listening Room series - since you’ve done curtains and blown your chance on that.
How about this, you can get white acoustic foam in a flat format and get sheets put into open backed frames and the hang them from the ceiling on nice hooks about 20cm from the window and have a gap of 10cm from each hung frame which will allow light in. Also because you would have the 20cm gap in-between the window and the panels you double the reduction with soundwaves front and back. And because they hang you choose if there in place or not. That would work far better for what your trying to achieve regarding the reduction of sound reflections regarding windows. Look at The Acoustics Company for the Melamine Foam.
You know John you could also Double up the curtains so when you want light...you use the center set l. And when it's say night time you can then use both for a more density. And you may...obtain more sound deadening for Night Music... They likely attunate the high and hence sharpness?
I wouldn't have thought a relatively sheer curtain that allows light to pass would, at the same time, attenuate sound, and presume the efficacy of the curtains would depend in large part on the amount to which they're pleated when closed? If one had the funds, would slatted shutters be another option? They could be adjusted and, as slats, would reflect sound to varying degrees and in different directions, depending on their slant.
Bit puzzled by your reverb times. Why would a curtain INCREASE reverb at some frequencies? Wonder what the error rates on the measurements are - could you really just be seeing variations within the margin of error?
Yes, it's possible that my measurements only show margin of error differences and that the curtains could be doing at all to the reverb. However, if we are seeing a real (non margin of error) increase in RT60 at any given frequency, it could mean the curtain is reflecting that frequency back into the room.
I suspect if you move the microphone an arm's length in any direction you will get different relative results at different frequencies but still essentially zero difference.
I am actually asking, when I shopped for curtains they were rated for sound absorption but that rating was specific to the curtain hung with a significant amount of “bunching” I.e. there had to be quite a bit of redundant width so that the curtain was not flat when fully opened, is that how the ikea curtains are rated as well?
Ir's curtains for you, Darko. Curtains! Jokes aside, one of your most interesting reviews this year. An inexpensive way to level up the audio quality played in your home and may (ultimately) make your home peaceful if music is not played.
I would think the difference in measurement is down to the margin of error, not actual changes caused by the curtains. The difference is simply too small to say anything conclusive other then "the difference is negligible"
"It's curtains for this channel" Oh no thought I, what could be wrong......?? Great review, funny almost as quite possibly the least likely product to expect you to cover. Good conclusions though, as the curtains work well visually, which is nice, yet fail on other claims. Well done John, I hope the stitches have come out well and we will see what you can conjure up for us next. Mugs perhaps? Audiophile Cheeses? We await your pleasure.
Swiss rail not that type of track rail curtains got to be close to the wall to block outside noise. And you really want to have two curtains so they're pleated when you bring them together not stretched out. If somebody wants to block outside noise virtually completely or completely! You need to get some minimum 6 mm perspex have it to the size of the frame close to the wall as possible, you probably need some one inch stick of wood to keep the perspex away from the fittings furniture, this could be glued to the perspex or to the frame, and attach the perspex to the frame with Blu-Tack or spongy tape double-sided what would be more permanent another benefit it will keep your house warmer as well in the rooms that are done
No surprise, really. I mean, what can you expect from something as thin as a curtain fabric? The difference between closed and open also make sense. Open means a large area thinly covered, closed means a narrower but thicker column covering a narrow section of the wall. I've seen it recommended to leave curtains open for listening because most rooms are more reverberant at lower frequencies than in the high treble. 4kHz is around where you see the 60 degrees off axis start to drop off in typical 25-28 mm soft domes. I have pleated curtains made to measure and directly on the glass of each window. The frequency response looked the same quite high up, and even slightly more ragged at higher frequencies. Didn't do an RT60, though.
I use vertical louvers that allow just whatever amount of light I want -you can buy them extra thick, in a cork surface, tend to be cat proof (they destroy curtains as a climbing challenge) and do deflect sound.
Density is a factor. If the curtains are stretched across the window so that they have shallow undulations, I can understand how they wouldn't do much in the way of sound absorption. But if you added a second pair to each window, the undulations would be steeper and the surface area would be increased which would certainly increase their effectiveness . They may even look more sculptural bunched closer together.
How many hours will they require to be fully burned-in ?
😂😂
Most fascinating curtain video I've ever watched! Thanks John.😎☠️🏴☠️
Pro tip: do not cut the curtains if they are too long. Get the seamstress /taylor to fold pleats at the bottom. The extra weight down low helps keep the curtains from blowing when there is a breeze.
Oh yes, curtains. When I did mine (but I wanted to have dark room, it was not planned to be accoustic treatment - maybe as a side effect) I noticed a big difference in dialog in movies. And I am not an audiophile. I have a cheap mini stereo system. But the difference is so big.
But I have some really heavy curtains ;) Not the one mentioned in the movie.
It would be interesting to try them in an untreated room.
It was funny to watch a video about curtains on Friday night. Thank you for the fun.
It’s hard to imagine that a $50 curtain would make a noticeable difference in a room that had thousands of dollars worth of sound treatment already. Seems that a more reasonable test would be to hang them up in a ‘normal’ room and compare the measurements. Interesting idea though.
Quickly watched this in a panic! Phew!
me too!
There are heavy insulating curtains you can buy. They will make a difference
Yes, low mass materials don't have much impact on sound. Those lightweight IKEA curtains were never going to do much. It's basic physics.
The curtains weren't a winner, but your title choice in naming this video, brilliant!
I’ve learned the term “click bait” the hard way. You gave me a scare.
😂ditto
There was curtains in the thumbnail 🤭
i like your attitude toward curtains John
Thanks for the review! I was considering buying these curtains based on the product description. I play music in my office and my office neighbors sometime complain that the sound bleeds through into their office. Now, I know it would be a waste of money. Oh well...
If you're comparing measurements of FR and RT60 with the curtains open and closed, keep in mind that for both measurements the curtains are still in the room. I think a better basis for comparison would be to completely remove the curtains from the room and start with that measurement. (It'll still probably be negligible... )
As a studio designer , audio engineer and acoustician, curtains and carpets make pretty much zero difference until you buy specific acoustic curtains with a substantial NRC.
I guess the test would be no curtains vs curtains (open or closed). Since u might get a bigger difference. Which would make them useful (or not).
"Oh pull yourself together" ! .... 😎
Open & Closed curtains is not the same as With and Without curtains!
It’s all about mass. Those are thin and light. I’ve got double lined heavy blackout curtains covering 50% of my walls. Probably ~20-25 lbs of material. It’s helped a noticeable amount. Clap test, fans are quieter. How much? Maybe 3-5db in the high end.
Who knows, maybe some cleaver engineering could do more with less but I doubt there’s a substantial way to reduce sound without mass or power. Something’s gotta give.
in an empty untreated room the difference would maybe be huge
They work to block out the sound of plates clinking, and they help block the sound of my neighbors having conversations outside of my big picture windows while my birds are trying to sleep. So I’m happy with them.
I guess it's only fair to IKEA to compare with no curtains at all. The main thing is they look nice and are affordable. I like them!
I want my listening room to look like the Black Lodge from Twin Peaks. Curtains everywhere!
I have a lot of windows in my office, even along the wall behind my speakers. My thick curtains make a huge difference. And I love that they block out all the light as a bonus. I can't think of a solution for removing window sound reflections while still letting in the light.
This week's podcast was so informative and interesting on bluetooth your guest was brilliant listened to the podcast twice
The reason it shows a negligible improvement at the higher frequencies is that the wavelength is much shorter and easier to absorb. Low frequency long wavelength as you know is much,much harder to absorb
Ha, ha, good title. I might have to get a pair. We have a lot of heavy padded curtains elsewhere, mostly to keep the cold out.
Hi, I have measured and done research on materials in an acoustics laboratory. We also perform ISO354 measurements. Curtains do not ISOLATE sound, they are simply not heavy enough. You would need curtains that have a surface weight of 20kg/m² to have a bit of isolation. Curtains that heavy cannot function as curtains. In terms of absorption, they can work. But I think you forgot to mention this, the IKEA product description mentions that the curtains should be placed 10-15 cm off the wall for optimum performance. The curtains should also be draped so that there are folds (so not entirely open). These are typically also the recommendations that acousticians give. Even though I didn't find any measurement data (of ISO354), it's likely that the way you hung and opened the curtains did not deliver the highest sound absorption possible. Again, no sound absorption coefficient so I cannot say if this would make a difference. Another aspect is surface area. The surface area of the curtains in your room, and any typical room, is rather small. The larger the surface area of a material, the more if affects the sound field in a room. My guess is that the sound absorption coefficient of these curtains is quite low (expert speak: it looks like the flow resistivity is too low for that) even with optimal placement.
They could probably dampen noticeably if the room was empty hehe, but when a room is fully furnished and decorated a thin piece of fabric won`t make any difference, not that I`ve done measurements, but I`ve been in empty rooms where there were curtains in place and after getting a couch, a carpet (covering maybe 1/5th of the floor) as well as a desk, THAT makes a huge difference (:
not too many people bring a bag and their sound system when moving into a new place, but those were the circumstances at the time hehe..
Great video. Not surprised with this result. I'm currently in the process of building acoustic panels and one of the properties of the cloth going on the outside of the absorber that is important is that it's breathable / light can get through. As soon as you said light could get through I was thinking "it will be surprising if this works at all". The only curtains that I would imagine contribute to acoustics of the room would be the THICK acoustic curtains that literally have an extra layer of felt INSIDE the fabric. And even then I can't imagine it doing much below 1 khz? and at that point.... you might as well get a real acoustic panel and just have it on wheels or something and slide it in front of the window when you want to, since these thick curtains probably won't look that great anyways.
Internet dummy here - not an acoustician or sound engineer, etc.
Argghh! I fell for the click-bait headline!
But at the same time Im relieved it was just that and that the channel is not closing down due to health issues, war or anything else. And I liked the content.
Well. If your curtains are open. The materiel is still in the room absorbing sound. A better comparison would be to remove them completely.
I've seen a few comments like this. Yes, the material is still in the room when the curtains are open. But the larger point is that whenn the curtains are open, the windows are exposed to sound. And windows are potentially refelective surfaces like a wall, the ceiling or the floor. The idea behind sound absorbing curtains is that by covering up those reflective surfaces you can (but not always) reduce the reverb.
John you should have save this for April Fools:)
You had me laughing very hard at the first time, but again it's a very good made video in so many ways. I think you could even inform me about tax return thingymagic and I would be happy to watch it.
And it's extremly nice to see you building from ground up and doing those measurements for the tech heads among your viewers.
You scared the LIVING CRAP out of me! Good one. I clicked SO HARD on this one!
Is it not too early for April 1st ? Hi John, thank you for all your great work to educate and entertain me. All best for you. Take care.
Doctor doctor, I think I'm a pair of audiophile curtains... Pull yourself together man!
Thank you for this John! I was considering curtains as a kind of "room treatment" in the room where my other system is. I'm glad I've watched this video before I splashed 70 EUR on a pair of curtains (that's what they cost here at IKEA Serbia).
One reason why I love my headphones, of which I have quite a few, is that I can listen to music without these concerns. I first got really into headphones when I lived in a flat in London in the 90s. I didn't want to disturb my neighbours with music so headphones were a great option. Anyway I now live in a detached house in Brighton but I still listen to music with headphones primarily, I'm into the way of it. I don't want to have to make changes to the rooms in my house, I like the way they are. With really good headphones the sound quality is truly stunning, way ahead of what can be achieved for the same price with speakers.
I do know that John has made these points at various times himself. I do think that a lot of audiophiles might like to have a look at the excellence of good quality of headphones, if you haven't tried them you might be surprised at just what can be achieved.
I do think that this is an interesting video anyway, I do like that John addresses broader issues of audio rather than just reviewing components all the time.
Couple of things: RT60 tends to be very inaccurate on the bass frequencies. You should take several measurements to see how much fluctuarion there is. I think that the difference in RT60 curtains open and closed was just measurement uncertainty.
For higher frequencies you could also take a look on impulse response whether there would be reduction of reflection spikes coming from the side walls.
Also worth pointing out that the curtains will have impact on the RT60 regardless being open or closed. And to extend the impact more towards lower treble and upper mids, you should have so much curtains that they are folded even when pulled in front of the windows.
Yeah, only the thick curtains will give the room a bit more of a 'warmer' sound. I'm roughly guessing that velvet curtains, with lining, would be the best. I suppose most people would assume that, but you have to either like the look of them, or put up with them if sound is your priority. :)
As long as you both like them and their effect then happy days. I still stand by my various sized books in Billy bookcases as a great absorber.
The old rubber-backed paisley-print velvet drapes from the 60s/70s. 7' lengths. I had loads of these in both red and gold. Likely came from Sears. They were brilliant at calming a bright reflective surface. Wish I still had them.
Frankly I would have been surprised if a lightweight, semi-opaque bit of cloth made much difference.
Speaker grills, which are intended to be acoustically transparent, come to mind.
I’m a huge IKEA fan myself and got really excited in the early stage of the video. I also have to add curtains to address reverberation and this sounded like a great solution (at first) but unfortunately not. One thing about the measurements: with the curtains open you have a more compsct stack of fabric to absorb sound but more locally. A third measurement in the same timeframe with the curtains taken down would be interesting in the comparison. As for my setup, I guess I have to get some thick curtains that do the job 🙄
What about prior to any curtains at all, because close or open they still provide a dampening factor despite the window reverberation. Same with the flat closed vs rippled, sometimes it’s not just about absorption but dispersion. Anyways I think they look good in your new sanctuary!
you got me with the title. well done.
Ikea offer curtain rails that are double rails. So you can have a lighter curtain, and a heavy curtain
It would be interesting to see the variation between multiple measurements (frequency response and RT60) at the listening position for a given listening configuration (e.g., curtains open). To account for the uncertainty in individual measurements, it might be worth averaging multiple measurements at the listening position for a given listening configuration and then comparing that to an averaged set of measurements for a different listening configuration.
Good luck with your surgery I hope it goes well and you feel better
John, another significantly sized reflective surface is your LED screen behind you. I wonder if you hung a thick fleecy fabric over the screen, would you hear (and measure) less reverb in your room? Really enjoy your videos, including all the ones on room treatments.
curtains open and closed probably isn't a big enough audible difference, but with or without curtains might be. Or prior to the Vicoustic treatments, I'm sure the curtains would be a noticeable difference. I'm sure you are at the point of diminishing returns. I'm glad you've optimized your listening area though and described the process and changes you have heard and measured. Thank you!
How about a curtain comparison review video?
Darko,
You don't need to make a whole video about Ikea curtains. It's simple, if they let light through then they will let sound through. You need heavy curtains (with multiple layers of high density fabric sandwiched) like the ones they have in theatres, even there they have two sets with a air gap between. These theatre curtains only stop mid range and hi frequency, for bass you need curtains made of concrete, lead, sand (inert materials).
Thank you for testing this. Safe travels, and best wishes!
Those are way too thin to make any real impact IMHO. For what its worth, you don't have to close the curtains to gain the sound absorption. I have a set from another manufacturer on my sliding door to the patio and they are full light blocking (3 layers, with heavy felt in the middle). They typically remain open and pushed/bunched to the sides out of the way as more of a window dressing. Because they are on my door, they stand out from the wall about 3" and provide an extra air-gap.
They still work just fine removing much of my room's reverb and it is really all about the mass they provide. Yes, perhaps they'd work slightly better spread out across the entire door, but not as much as you would think.
I’ve got a set of these and I totally echo (pun intended) John’s findings.
THANKS JOHN, I FOUND IT INFORMATIVE AND ENTERTAINING 👍😎💚💚💚
Gunnlaug is a REALLY old female name here in Norway. You say it perfectly
Thick, double or better triple layer curtains may loose you the translucency but will vastly and noticeably improve reverb coming from the window
back to the drawing board John been there well ended up with double lined heavy curtains .lol mind you living in the North of Scotland probably good buy 😊
What is the difference if you do the measurement with and without the curtains? Not that i expect a real big difference but...
I actually am too broke and I found that Shower Curtains on the Windows to be the cheapest solution. Once up nobody can tell the difference anyway.
Plastique chique :) anyways, better than cardboard!!
you magnificent bastard. well played
In order to block sound one needs mass followed by air space followed by decoupled mass.
Great. Love, love, love your attitude and style towards what you do. These curtains was a bit audiophile graded, but now you focus on the audiophile plants. They do more then thin IKEAs. Hold on, you might buy plants at IKEA!! What are you going to do? Berliner IKEA plants? Achtung!
Many viewers rely on you to accurately guide them toward an improvement in their quality of life. I'm glad you are calling attention to the utility of readily obtainable decor products to help achieve that end. Your comments, E. G. 7:35, present concerning information inconsistencies from the IKEA link you provide. Some viewers might not be familiar with drape sizing and fitting conventions. Your presentation does little to change that. Mentioning briefly the services of a skilled fabric craft person is hardly adequate for the uninitiated, but a good beginning for many of us. Thank you for your well intended efforts. Hopefully your presentation will stimulate viewers to welcome alternative means to improve their audio environment, decor, and experience. Thanks for all your contributions. Wish you the best for the future.
I like your ambition experimentation is the way to go 😉
No big differens with them open or closed, but how was the measurement without any curtains at all?
You should have measured it with the curtains closed and without them at all. if you don't even put it on, the difference would definitely be bigger, since it absorbs the sound even in the open position. Great video anyway!
Yes, that’s exactly what I would wanna know.
Hi John, if you’re up for some experimentation, you might consider adding a second pair to each window. When closed, they will hang fuller and have a more uneven surface. More like they look now when open. Could be a shot in the dark, but I have a feeling it might help. Good luck. Love your channel - Kelly
I think these curtains, when using just a few (square meters) of them don't do a lot. But still the difference between closed and open is probably not the main thing. The fact that they are installed in the room might be the most significant difference. Open or closed...
Don't forget that your Umik-1 has an accuracy of +-1 dB.
For best results, do each measurement looped at least 3 times. If you did that, the difference would probably be smaller.
You scared me with this title. I thought you were leaving us. Happy to see it was actually about curtains.
Have you repeated the test more than once? Cause with REW and an UMIC-1 Mic I get slightly different RT60 every time I measure, even if nothing changes in the room, even repeating the test immediately after...so the differences you see might not even be "real". Especially in the 100Hz, I don't think a curtain can do something in that low area.
Oh John your not finished yet you have to investigate “Large Pot Plants” used as bass traps and sound diffusers to add to your “April” Greening The Listening Room series - since you’ve done curtains and blown your chance on that.
Interesting video. In an untreated room difference could be a bit more significant, I would assume.
How about this, you can get white acoustic foam in a flat format and get sheets put
into open backed frames and the hang them from the ceiling on nice hooks about 20cm
from the window and have a gap of 10cm from each hung frame which will allow light in.
Also because you would have the 20cm gap in-between the window and the panels you
double the reduction with soundwaves front and back. And because they hang you choose
if there in place or not. That would work far better for what your trying to achieve regarding
the reduction of sound reflections regarding windows.
Look at The Acoustics Company for the Melamine Foam.
This reminds me of your "Houseplants for audiophiles" video ;)
Gotta get your Vitamin D when listening to music 👍🏽
You know John you could also Double up the curtains so when you want light...you use the center set l. And when it's say night time you can then use both for a more density. And you may...obtain more sound deadening for Night Music... They likely attunate the high and hence sharpness?
Welcome to Portugal!
I wouldn't have thought a relatively sheer curtain that allows light to pass would, at the same time, attenuate sound, and presume the efficacy of the curtains would depend in large part on the amount to which they're pleated when closed? If one had the funds, would slatted shutters be another option? They could be adjusted and, as slats, would reflect sound to varying degrees and in different directions, depending on their slant.
Bit puzzled by your reverb times. Why would a curtain INCREASE reverb at some frequencies? Wonder what the error rates on the measurements are - could you really just be seeing variations within the margin of error?
Yes, it's possible that my measurements only show margin of error differences and that the curtains could be doing at all to the reverb.
However, if we are seeing a real (non margin of error) increase in RT60 at any given frequency, it could mean the curtain is reflecting that frequency back into the room.
@@DarkoAudio Yes - perhaps at certain frequencies the curtain is reflecting rather than absorbing. This is beyond my engineering degree knowledge!
I suspect if you move the microphone an arm's length in any direction you will get different relative results at different frequencies but still essentially zero difference.
I am actually asking, when I shopped for curtains they were rated for sound absorption but that rating was specific to the curtain hung with a significant amount of “bunching” I.e. there had to be quite a bit of redundant width so that the curtain was not flat when fully opened, is that how the ikea curtains are rated as well?
i have been looking into molton or stage curtains, and found this video very interesting! thanks!
John compliment for the good tiles, very very nice!
Ir's curtains for you, Darko. Curtains! Jokes aside, one of your most interesting reviews this year. An inexpensive way to level up the audio quality played in your home and may (ultimately) make your home peaceful if music is not played.
It's gunn-laaaauuuugh. 😂 So yes, great pronunciation!
I would think the difference in measurement is down to the margin of error, not actual changes caused by the curtains. The difference is simply too small to say anything conclusive other then "the difference is negligible"
"It's curtains for this channel" Oh no thought I, what could be wrong......?? Great review, funny almost as quite possibly the least likely product to expect you to cover. Good conclusions though, as the curtains work well visually, which is nice, yet fail on other claims. Well done John, I hope the stitches have come out well and we will see what you can conjure up for us next. Mugs perhaps? Audiophile Cheeses? We await your pleasure.
Built To Spill!!❤ my home town Hero’s❤
YES this is what we want,love it.
This was a little mean but quite funny. I approve of this sort of click bait.
Swiss rail not that type of track rail curtains got to be close to the wall to block outside noise. And you really want to have two curtains so they're pleated when you bring them together not stretched out.
If somebody wants to block outside noise virtually completely or completely! You need to get some minimum 6 mm perspex have it to the size of the frame close to the wall as possible, you probably need some one inch stick of wood to keep the perspex away from the fittings furniture, this could be glued to the perspex or to the frame, and attach the perspex to the frame with Blu-Tack or spongy tape double-sided what would be more permanent another benefit it will keep your house warmer as well in the rooms that are done
How did you get your expertise in this area? Asking in a curious and non-snarky way
Thank you! You saved me some money as was thinking of buying these curtains. The fact they don't specify the sound absorption ratio is a bad sign.
No surprise, really. I mean, what can you expect from something as thin as a curtain fabric? The difference between closed and open also make sense. Open means a large area thinly covered, closed means a narrower but thicker column covering a narrow section of the wall.
I've seen it recommended to leave curtains open for listening because most rooms are more reverberant at lower frequencies than in the high treble. 4kHz is around where you see the 60 degrees off axis start to drop off in typical 25-28 mm soft domes.
I have pleated curtains made to measure and directly on the glass of each window. The frequency response looked the same quite high up, and even slightly more ragged at higher frequencies. Didn't do an RT60, though.
I would say the curtains are doing an excellent job, I couldn't hear the neighborhood drilling at all in this video.
Would be nice to see some environment shots from your surroundings in Portugal too.
This reminds me of your plant placement vid Mr D, but April 1 is a week away…