How you recycled those panels is a model for how things should be done. You could have sent them for recycling and kidded yourself that you were doing what you could but you chose to do all you could and now people in a foreign land will have access to the things we take for granted.. I can only imagine what giving the gift of clean water to people feels like..well done mate..
Well, of course, eventually, those panels will end up in Mauritania's landfills. So maybe some money should be put aside to recover the (finally) dead panels and transport them to a proper wafer recycling plant. Maybe, in 20 years, when the panels you've just installed wear out and you need to donate those, you can reload the container with the ancient panels to prevent inappropriate local disposal. (I.E. tell the recipients that in x years they will get a dollar amount so please don't chuck them in the environment.)
@@mb-3faze so your saying that in Mauritania there's no-one who thinks truly end of life solar panels would be better off being recycled rather than thrown in landfill? And ten or twenty years from now, there won't be any local recycling facilities, even though solar adoption is increasing worldwide at a massive rate, and we'll need recycling on every continent, and in many if not all sizeable countries?
@@jonevansauthor Although altruistic for sure, this plan could fall under the 'no good dead goes unpunished' category. Previous examples include exporting waste plastic to willing countries for them to recycle and make money - that did not end well. Well meaning donations of footwear and clothing to disaster stricken locales in the past have resulted in the decimation of local shoe and clothing manufacturing. Donation plans needs to be thought through. Mauritania would be a great place to set up a recycling plant - lots of (uninhabited) space and a good global location. Maybe when the Western Sahara to Cornwall DC interlink is built with solar and wind in the desert, Mauritania could join in.
@@mb-3faze my point was, you're making the patronising assumption that no-one involved in this has thought about it at all. As if they're just posting it to someone in Mauritania with no plan. There's a clear plan for what they are going to do with it, they talk about it in the video. You're like the people who say NASA can't get to Mars because there's cosmic radiation which will kill the astronauts. Which is obviously something they haven't considered, despite their public statements on the subject and white papers on it, and the fact that all the scientists and engineers, and the astronauts themselves are well aware of this and are often scientists and/or engineers themselves. They're artisan electrics not dodgy fly by night cowboy electrics without the ability to consider the potential downsides of shipping panels to Mauritania.
@@jonevansauthor It's an interesting discussion but as someone who lived quite a lot of their life in Africa (albeit in the east), I find the concept of shipping used stuff to African countries patronizing and somewhat colonial. Artisan electrics are going to fill that container up with other panels from other sources. Are they going to test them all before shipping? One wonders if they've worked out the carbon foot print of the transport and distribution to see whether it even makes sense from an energy generation/ environmental perspective. I wonder if some enterprising individual in Mauritania has already shelved her plans for a solar PV import business because these cheap/free panels are going to appear. I think those panels would be better deployed in the UK where they can be use in applications where depleted output is acceptable and where the redistribution carbon miles are much lower.
Great work, Artisan Electrics team! Your efforts to explain everything so clearly are truly commendable. The attention to detail and the passion you bring to each project shine through in your videos. I especially love the idea of donating old solar panels-what a fantastic way to give back while promoting sustainability. Keep up the amazing work, and looking forward to more insightful content!
I love the video... But the difference between the two systems is just 12 kw (41vs29). So why not just install another 12kw row of new panels and save all this enormous work?
Technology always gets better. I don't worry about consumers as the rich ones will always foot the bill to upgrade and the rest will just wait - I worry about about the public rollout - local authorities being criticised for not rolling out faster, yet when they do, a decade later it's all unsupported old Tech. Broken at the roadside.
The customer gets more solar energy (weather permitting) and another country still benefits greatly from the old solar panels, win win situation, I hope there’s some old companies who may have upgraded their old solar panels who can also help and donate them.
Good idea. I have actually seen frames that automatically change the pitch according to the time of year. You tell it the latitude and longitude they’re installed on and it does the rest according to the time of year. Clever stuff.
someone has more money than sense, new panels and each with an optimizer while all facing in the same direction. It would make more financial sense to fit some extra solar panels to the existing. I can see any cost benefit to this approach over the life of the panels?
Fantastic stuff guys. Love the idea of donating the panels. I'm seriously impressed with everything you do. Your standards, ethics, your neatness. Methodical and conscientious, you set the example for others to follow. Keep up the amazing work. 👍👏🥇🏆
No need for an enclosure heater. The amount of power going through that thing will generate plenty of heat. Just need a humidity buffer for night time. An old sock would do but that wouldn't be 'proper' !
@@petewright4640 I've never actually seen a heater to maintain a breakers temperature anyway. We use heaters to keep moisture low, but never to keep a breaker in it's temperature range. Even in Antarctica with equipment outside, I've never have seen a heater for the breakers. Now I have used higher temp, 50C rated breakers in Vietnam though. Since the enclosures can get 50C plus and then you get misoperations, but never adjusted for cold application and 0C isn't cold.
You mentioned the customer is receiving FIT payments. Thought upgrading the system from 29kWp to 41kWp wasn’t allowed? Would be good to know how you managed to get around this for future jobs?
Spinning through did not have time to see where FIT is mentioned but if customer is claiming FIT it's very simple. By law he has to declare the upgrade to his FIT payment provider and he will be paid pro-rata on the TIC (i.e. combined power of panels NOT the inverter output). So in this case upgrade from total combined panel power 29kW to 41kW so his future payments will be paid pro-rata 29/41ths of the generated output as his FIT array was declared at 29kW at installation (presumably). It's all clearly stated by OFGEM. If they don't declare it the FIT provider will see a massive increase in power generated and will be coming to ask how and possibly cancelling all future FIT for fraudulent claims! If it's SEG then of course no problem. As far as I know that is simply payment per unit exported.
The FIT ‘capacity’ is defined by the generator capacity. This is the output the system can run out without damage. Generally the grid tie inverter has a lower capacity than the solar peak. If you increase the panel capacity you haven’t necessarily increased the generation capacity as the inverter is unchanged. However the larger panel capacity will give you a better yield on days that are cloudy - or when the sun is low in the sky.
25:37 John, are you aware hot air is lighter and rises to top? 🤔 perhaps, you could have fitted the heater BELOW the consumer-unit so that it's metal would absorb the heat QUICKER than it now will, from only circulated air, in that void space...
People that don’t understand are getting so hung up on panel efficiency. Panels cost nothing to run as efficiency is irrelevant unless you are short of space. The increase in efficiency only reduces the size. This customer must have money to burn or there was other problems with this array such as shading. Efficiencies have only increased marginally in the last decade. No way are those panels twice the efficiency as stated. They are also larger if you look at the overhang on the frame. 400 watt panels are still much larger that 220w. This is going to be the new salesman’s patter “your panels are 10 years old you should really be thinking about fitting more efficient ones” I wonder how the new inverters will hold up compared with the super reliable Sunnyboys
Yes, heat rises, but those types of heaters are enough to keep the whole compartment hot enough for the switches to work optimally. Putting it at the bottom would also be trickier since all the cables are there and putting a heating element near cables isn't the best idea since it will make them hotter and thuss making the trip fuses trip when the cables are much hotter making the fuse less safe instead.
21:07 Could you not have moved the isolator to the left side instead of crimp joining the cables? Is there a rule in the UK where main switches need to be on the right hand side? Those busbars are fancy though, the MCB links we have in NZ are pretty rubbish
100% agree with the way you recycled this!!!!!! Well done!!!! I work in IT. The idea of functioning kit going to land fill kills me. So glad to see this being done.
Big job, I appreciate it! But two questions: you've put the heater in the isolator enclosure at the top, not the bottom. Warm air rises. How do you know the breakers will get warm enough? It isn't monitored. The mounting rail for the panels ended up being a little too long. Why did you not space the panels very slightly to use the full length? Neat, no cutting...
@@tatuben22Define efficiency. An optlmiser can get more power from the panel. That's not to do with efficiency. That's power delivery. Efficiency is to do with the amount of energy lost by components, or the proportion of sunlight falling onto a panel which is converted into electricity.
There's a couple more options install new alongside Old. Or find a reseller that will sell them at a discount to people who are not necessarily looking for the top-of-the-line newest ones.
cool idea to use the old panels over in africa for power and water, but it can become a problem if used to extensive though, water that isn´t in the ground anymore takes a laong time to get back the most of the water vanishes into thin air and goes down elsewhere, i hope they also think about that and put good systems in place not that they face water shortages in some years like they have in the US.
It is true that NGOs and African governments haven't thought about where water will continue to come from. /sarcasm Honestly people need to stop thinking like this 'Highly technical people are doing civil engineering projects but haven't thought about how it will work.' Of course mistakes can be made, but they can Google stuff in Africa as well as they can here, and they do have engineers, and the NGOs will also be employing and funding people with relevant skills.
That is a fantastic thing you guys are going. Top job. Also great to see proper consideration given to outdoor Switchgear. Information some don't like to hear but valid all the same. Top job.
If you didn't already have a solutino, you could also sell them to Bimble Solar in Sussex - who would regrade and resell the working panels and recycle materials from any that are duff.
strikes me, aside from the recycling issue (and epic project! we could start to see countries with the higher average sunshine hours start to become soolar exporters in the future), why not use bi-facial solar panels and fill over the ground with white gravel?
Great project, well done. I hope other solar installers can come together with you and try and ensure similar upgrades can be repurposed more often while industrial scale recycling plants ramp up.
My first thoughts just after the video had started was to donate the panels, so I was so releaved to hear they where going to Africa fantastic work guys and I can see you are all please to be working on this project, having that good feel factor ha!!! I will be doing the very same thing with my panels next year!
I'll have enough of the panels to build a 4Kw south facing system in Scotland !!! I'm a 53 year old Lancia / Fiat Mechanic .. You lads have no idea about corrosion issues ;)
I know that your main switches in England are always placed on the right side, but why not move it to the left for this situation? Now you are creating an extra joint with resistance and heat production. Maybe this is in the Netherlands a little bit different.
It looks like optimizers will not be useful as there aren't any obvious shading issues. Putting the inverters outside is not a good idea, and high voltage DC (500VDC?) would have much less I^2*R losses than 240VAC on the long line to the house.
Why saw the ends off if the frames. The next upgrade may need those bits! Well done for reusing the panels. It should be elegal to destroy functioning pannels.
The issue of solar panel recycling has actually been discussed behind the scenes for many years. Unfortunately, no one wants to put the resources, ie the money, into developing proper solar panel recycling processes
When MCB is in cold environment...so is the cable. And yes, cable can actually carry more current if in cold. Same with MCBs. So why do the hassle of MCB warmer..
you sell perfectly good old panels. I have lots of second hand ones and they have year's of life in them yet. not all diyers are going to be making bodgy shit out of them. I just wish they would make it onto the second hand market rather than being landfilled. Ill come and collect free of charge as many panels as i can to keep them out of landfill or recyclers. its a waste of something that still works
The new panels looks like the new Longi HiMo6 435W Explorer panels: LR5-54HTH-435M I was a bit confused by the removal of the DC isolators (5:25), but this was explained that when the system is off, the voltage output of each optimizer is just 1V - quite a useful feature and you will probably be able to track to output of each panel. Is the metal cabinet for the consumer unit at 17:45 weather proof?
I've thought about installing PV solar panels on my house but there are disused water heating panels on the roof from the previous owner. I dont know how much extra it will cost to remove them and possibly fix the roof, on top of the cost of a new PV array
Good to see the re-purposing of the panels to Mauritania even if they were salable on the UK second hand market. The customers seems to have goals beyond simple economics, if they have the means then that's fine too. One day we'll have proper recycling for true end of life panels, I'm sure regulators will get on top of that just as they have with Lithium batteries [well, EU directives have at least].
The only efficient place in the world for solar is Africa, the science on this has been published & peer reviewed and know for some years now. The UK doesn't get enough sun, so it takes more fossil fuel energy to make the panels than you get back. Financially it's different, because by purchasing a solar system now you're purchasing cheap energy and labor from China, rather than the UK.
Solar panels are just not efficient enough, very expensive to have a worthwhile setup,only around 30% efficiency, with the uk weather, probably only getting the max out of them for six months of the year, and after you have payed back the initial cost the dam things probably will need replacing,
Why haven't you addressed the low pitch? If you are so worried about running a heat pump, something i would not advise, then you need to chase winter sun. As our latitude is 38 degrees this is the optimum pitch but to bias to winter sun you need to be on plus side of 38 degrees. Trouble is row spacing may then be to tight....
Great project! There was mention that the array was on a FIT. I'm interested to know if the inverter capacity remained the same as it was previously, obviously now the panel kWp has increased significantly. Therefore more generation. Was this cleared with the energy company which pays out the FIT? I will definitely keep you in mind if I have panels which are no longer required.
I've also just posted a comment asking about this. As I now understand it you can increase the system wattage, but the generation reading is pro-rata back to reflect the original system size. So go from 4kW to 8kW, you get paid based on 50% of the generation.
Is it safe to disconnect the cables on such a large array even after safely isolating the dc and ac isolators. How do you check theres not a high voltage or current running though the cables?
Uplift in performance of about 10% plus individual panel monitoring means we can see if any panel is underperforming and even if it is it will not bring down the whole array. They cost about £60 each.
@artisanelectrics If one wanted to build an off grid solar pv system where running off a battery rather than grid export was the priority, would a system like this make sense or would one get greater overall efficiency by keeping everything DC from the panels to the battery storage and then only have the AC inverter powered from the battery ?
Yes but that's my point increasing efficiency is irrelevant when there is no running costs. It simply means same power generated from a smaller area. 409w at 10% or 400 w at 30% is 40@ watts period. There is no tax writeoff for non business, it's not a cash donation
Yes there is a benefit. A higher efficiency may result in a lower equivalent pence per kilowatt hour of electricity generated. It all comes down to how much higher the equipment costs are at the higher efficiency.
Why did you install optimizers. Didn't see any shading risk. These optimizers need also power to operate and increase risk of failure significantly - 96 electronic boxes out in the weather day and night 🤔
I like the SolarEdge it’s a good system but if there isn’t a specific need due to shading then I’d steer away. The safety factor is worth looking at but that can be mitigated with quality MC4’s & proper terminations.
It seems mad there isn't a way of scraping the back layer off and 're-printing' PV panels when their output's no longer good enough. Presumably a pane of glass in an aluminium frame could last almost forever? That way there'd only be a tiny bit of e-waste per panel per upgrade. I'm not suggesting it should be done on site (might be nice for one dead panel in a serviceable array?), rather as a last resort before actually scrapping the whole lot.
@@joeroberts6056 I said "printing" because it was the simplest word I could think of to describe what would have to happen for my fantasy solution to work. I'm imagining the frame and pane of glass being used more or less forever, and the PV layer on the back being removed and a new one put back on. If it was 'printed' it could always properly fill the frame. If it was a replacement 'film' to be re-bonded / re-laminated whatever, you'd have to order them to fit. There is no "printing" yet as far as I know - sorry for the confusion.
Sorry guys but these videos aren't as good. All this jumping in and out to Jordan.....bit monotonous. The 'spark' is going. Pardon the Pun. I think we either do without Jordan or have one set - not drop ins. My thoughts - anyone else the same or just me ! Sorry 😮
Donating old panels to Africa is a bit like musical chairs, eventually they will need proper disposal. The continual evolution of electronics whether it be pv, computers, switchgear, EV, etc etc means that a proper recycling system needs to be developed. Aggregates for building materials comes to mind for the hard stuff and the metals should be reused.
In 10 years the technology has moved on. They are now reaching a point where new panels are coming close to the theoretical limit so there will be fewer or smaller advances going forward.
You mentioned FIT payments. You know you can’t get FIT payments if you change the system, only lower SEG. Also, I thought over-sleeving an earth cable was an absolute no no, or is that only in multi cored cables?
This must be why they reduced the number of panels. I guess these panels have the same overall peak power but produce more power in lower light, making the upgrade worthwhile.
Under recent regulations you can increase the size of a FITS system, but you are paid pro-rata. For example, you have a 4kW of installed panels, you double it to 8kW, you would be paid FITS based on 50% of your generations, so just 4kW.
Should have used a tracking system for a third of the panels. That way you'd get a decent amount back come the winter months. 25-35% more efficiency with the tracker. Ok they arnt cheap but neither is 96 new panels. If the bumfs right at 25-35% more efficient then they will pay for themselves a lot quicker.
Isn’t the problem that we are increasing the cost of power generation by installing intermittent wind generation and non optimally placed solar panels then expecting the (conventional) grid to cope with the power swings so caused …
You should really advertise this so that the average population see that the anti-solar people's claims are just misinformation and they can see that they're actually reused rather than their misinformation of them ending up in landfills. Especially for this truly worthy cause reuse case.
My solar edge are really bad in dull conditions, maybe the optimizers self consume what little power is generated. And of course they were not even needed in that open field.
The talk about solar panels as if they just grow on a tree, all the framework the cables the isolators etc all just naturally hanging off branches. Very good in isolated places and for a single house in some cases, but a very high carbon footprint to produce,
Request a quote from Artisan Electrics here - app.openquote.net/company/artisanelectrics
It's good to see Wayne get some screen time. He's a good presenter with a warm and friendly personality. Cheers, lads.
Hoping to get Wayne on even more videos in the future!
He has a morning breakfast show energy.
How you recycled those panels is a model for how things should be done. You could have sent them for recycling and kidded yourself that you were doing what you could but you chose to do all you could and now people in a foreign land will have access to the things we take for granted.. I can only imagine what giving the gift of clean water to people feels like..well done mate..
Well, of course, eventually, those panels will end up in Mauritania's landfills. So maybe some money should be put aside to recover the (finally) dead panels and transport them to a proper wafer recycling plant. Maybe, in 20 years, when the panels you've just installed wear out and you need to donate those, you can reload the container with the ancient panels to prevent inappropriate local disposal. (I.E. tell the recipients that in x years they will get a dollar amount so please don't chuck them in the environment.)
@@mb-3faze so your saying that in Mauritania there's no-one who thinks truly end of life solar panels would be better off being recycled rather than thrown in landfill? And ten or twenty years from now, there won't be any local recycling facilities, even though solar adoption is increasing worldwide at a massive rate, and we'll need recycling on every continent, and in many if not all sizeable countries?
@@jonevansauthor Although altruistic for sure, this plan could fall under the 'no good dead goes unpunished' category. Previous examples include exporting waste plastic to willing countries for them to recycle and make money - that did not end well. Well meaning donations of footwear and clothing to disaster stricken locales in the past have resulted in the decimation of local shoe and clothing manufacturing. Donation plans needs to be thought through. Mauritania would be a great place to set up a recycling plant - lots of (uninhabited) space and a good global location. Maybe when the Western Sahara to Cornwall DC interlink is built with solar and wind in the desert, Mauritania could join in.
@@mb-3faze my point was, you're making the patronising assumption that no-one involved in this has thought about it at all. As if they're just posting it to someone in Mauritania with no plan. There's a clear plan for what they are going to do with it, they talk about it in the video.
You're like the people who say NASA can't get to Mars because there's cosmic radiation which will kill the astronauts. Which is obviously something they haven't considered, despite their public statements on the subject and white papers on it, and the fact that all the scientists and engineers, and the astronauts themselves are well aware of this and are often scientists and/or engineers themselves.
They're artisan electrics not dodgy fly by night cowboy electrics without the ability to consider the potential downsides of shipping panels to Mauritania.
@@jonevansauthor It's an interesting discussion but as someone who lived quite a lot of their life in Africa (albeit in the east), I find the concept of shipping used stuff to African countries patronizing and somewhat colonial. Artisan electrics are going to fill that container up with other panels from other sources. Are they going to test them all before shipping? One wonders if they've worked out the carbon foot print of the transport and distribution to see whether it even makes sense from an energy generation/ environmental perspective. I wonder if some enterprising individual in Mauritania has already shelved her plans for a solar PV import business because these cheap/free panels are going to appear.
I think those panels would be better deployed in the UK where they can be use in applications where depleted output is acceptable and where the redistribution carbon miles are much lower.
I really like Wayne, he's great on camera, very relaxed, good presenter :)
I agree, he's a natural
Would be great on 60 minute makeover 😂
Good sparky too, knows his stuff.
Great work, Artisan Electrics team! Your efforts to explain everything so clearly are truly commendable. The attention to detail and the passion you bring to each project shine through in your videos. I especially love the idea of donating old solar panels-what a fantastic way to give back while promoting sustainability. Keep up the amazing work, and looking forward to more insightful content!
I love the video... But the difference between the two systems is just 12 kw (41vs29). So why not just install another 12kw row of new panels and save all this enormous work?
Technology always gets better. I don't worry about consumers as the rich ones will always foot the bill to upgrade and the rest will just wait - I worry about about the public rollout - local authorities being criticised for not rolling out faster, yet when they do, a decade later it's all unsupported old Tech. Broken at the roadside.
perfect customer for artisan ...more money than sense
Especially in cost of living crisis.
The customer gets more solar energy (weather permitting) and another country still benefits greatly from the old solar panels, win win situation, I hope there’s some old companies who may have upgraded their old solar panels who can also help and donate them.
Great story. Given the cost involved, why not also modify the frame to be able to adjust the pitch for changing seasons?
Good idea. I have actually seen frames that automatically change the pitch according to the time of year.
You tell it the latitude and longitude they’re installed on and it does the rest according to the time of year. Clever stuff.
When money is not an issue
someone has more money than sense, new panels and each with an optimizer while all facing in the same direction. It would make more financial sense to fit some extra solar panels to the existing. I can see any cost benefit to this approach over the life of the panels?
Fantastic stuff guys. Love the idea of donating the panels. I'm seriously impressed with everything you do. Your standards, ethics, your neatness. Methodical and conscientious, you set the example for others to follow. Keep up the amazing work. 👍👏🥇🏆
Shouldn't the enclosure heater (ideally) be toward the bottom of the enclosure rather than the top (~21:30), as heat rises..?
Normally heaters are put on the bottom, odd to see it up top here.
Guy at 19.30 clearly isn't an engineer "this inverter is 25kwhr" he says. Doesn't make any sense!
No need for an enclosure heater. The amount of power going through that thing will generate plenty of heat. Just need a humidity buffer for night time. An old sock would do but that wouldn't be 'proper' !
@@inothomeAlso it's not needed as losses in the wires etc will generate enough warmth. A heater us wasting energy. Probably in 24/7.
@@petewright4640 I've never actually seen a heater to maintain a breakers temperature anyway. We use heaters to keep moisture low, but never to keep a breaker in it's temperature range. Even in Antarctica with equipment outside, I've never have seen a heater for the breakers. Now I have used higher temp, 50C rated breakers in Vietnam though. Since the enclosures can get 50C plus and then you get misoperations, but never adjusted for cold application and 0C isn't cold.
You mentioned the customer is receiving FIT payments. Thought upgrading the system from 29kWp to 41kWp wasn’t allowed? Would be good to know how you managed to get around this for future jobs?
Me thinks someone is confusing FIT and SEG..
Spinning through did not have time to see where FIT is mentioned but if customer is claiming FIT it's very simple. By law he has to declare the upgrade to his FIT payment provider and he will be paid pro-rata on the TIC (i.e. combined power of panels NOT the inverter output). So in this case upgrade from total combined panel power 29kW to 41kW so his future payments will be paid pro-rata 29/41ths of the generated output as his FIT array was declared at 29kW at installation (presumably). It's all clearly stated by OFGEM. If they don't declare it the FIT provider will see a massive increase in power generated and will be coming to ask how and possibly cancelling all future FIT for fraudulent claims!
If it's SEG then of course no problem. As far as I know that is simply payment per unit exported.
The FIT ‘capacity’ is defined by the generator capacity. This is the output the system can run out without damage. Generally the grid tie inverter has a lower capacity than the solar peak. If you increase the panel capacity you haven’t necessarily increased the generation capacity as the inverter is unchanged. However the larger panel capacity will give you a better yield on days that are cloudy - or when the sun is low in the sky.
25:37 John, are you aware hot air is lighter and rises to top? 🤔
perhaps, you could have fitted the heater BELOW the consumer-unit so that it's metal would absorb the heat QUICKER than it now will, from only circulated air, in that void space...
20:40 You should also carry on of those step up drill bits. Very versatile especially when drilling metal sheeting.
25:58 come on lads you should know this is not correct information. They are double the output not double the efficiency.
People that don’t understand are getting so hung up on panel efficiency. Panels cost nothing to run as efficiency is irrelevant unless you are short of space. The increase in efficiency only reduces the size. This customer must have money to burn or there was other problems with this array such as shading. Efficiencies have only increased marginally in the last decade. No way are those panels twice the efficiency as stated. They are also larger if you look at the overhang on the frame. 400 watt panels are still much larger that 220w. This is going to be the new salesman’s patter “your panels are 10 years old you should really be thinking about fitting more efficient ones” I wonder how the new inverters will hold up compared with the super reliable Sunnyboys
I would have thought they would have gone for 550W panels
Shouldn't the (External Box protecting the Consumer Unit) Heater be installed at the base? Bearing in mind - heat rises
Good point
Yes, I suspect that tube heater will be pretty much ineffective where it has been placed.
Yes, heat rises, but those types of heaters are enough to keep the whole compartment hot enough for the switches to work optimally. Putting it at the bottom would also be trickier since all the cables are there and putting a heating element near cables isn't the best idea since it will make them hotter and thuss making the trip fuses trip when the cables are much hotter making the fuse less safe instead.
21:07 Could you not have moved the isolator to the left side instead of crimp joining the cables? Is there a rule in the UK where main switches need to be on the right hand side?
Those busbars are fancy though, the MCB links we have in NZ are pretty rubbish
My thoughts as well on moving the ISO
100% agree with the way you recycled this!!!!!!
Well done!!!! I work in IT. The idea of functioning kit going to land fill kills me. So glad to see this being done.
Totally agree people are so bloody dumb, 12 year old panels here being used to make raised garden beds !!! Pisses me off something horrible!!!
isn't the buyer also part of the problem, replacing panels that arguably don't need to be replaced?
@@worldsend69it's a house not a business
how do you know@@dgmclar? I didn't hear them say it was just a house.
Exactly, why not just add more panels? Presumably the owner is not getting any money from the electricians selling them?
Maybe they were not compatible with the upgrades they wanted? @@Crand0m This was missing from the video. They why?
@@Crand0m You hate the idea of them helping Africans?
Big job, I appreciate it! But two questions: you've put the heater in the isolator enclosure at the top, not the bottom. Warm air rises. How do you know the breakers will get warm enough? It isn't monitored.
The mounting rail for the panels ended up being a little too long. Why did you not space the panels very slightly to use the full length? Neat, no cutting...
Very impressed you have found a great project for the panels to be reused.
I would really love to see what effect an optimiser has in this setup. It literally looks like a plane field without shadows.
less efficiency for a premium price - just compare the Datasheets with a SMA or Fronius Inverter ...
There is a whole line of trees about 20m to the east of the arrays... I suspect that will cast a few shadows.
@@tatuben22Define efficiency.
An optlmiser can get more power from the panel. That's not to do with efficiency. That's power delivery.
Efficiency is to do with the amount of energy lost by components, or the proportion of sunlight falling onto a panel which is converted into electricity.
Not really.@@mastweiler22
@@deang5622 But if well matched panels are connected in series they will all have the same characteristics so an optimiser is pointless.
There's a couple more options install new alongside Old. Or find a reseller that will sell them at a discount to people who are not necessarily looking for the top-of-the-line newest ones.
cool idea to use the old panels over in africa for power and water, but it can become a problem if used to extensive though, water that isn´t in the ground anymore takes a laong time to get back the most of the water vanishes into thin air and goes down elsewhere, i hope they also think about that and put good systems in place not that they face water shortages in some years like they have in the US.
It is true that NGOs and African governments haven't thought about where water will continue to come from. /sarcasm Honestly people need to stop thinking like this 'Highly technical people are doing civil engineering projects but haven't thought about how it will work.' Of course mistakes can be made, but they can Google stuff in Africa as well as they can here, and they do have engineers, and the NGOs will also be employing and funding people with relevant skills.
ReSolar is doing similar reuse. I just saw an article in theGuardian that they have sent 730 panels to a 2 locations in Ukraine
That is a fantastic thing you guys are going. Top job.
Also great to see proper consideration given to outdoor Switchgear. Information some don't like to hear but valid all the same. Top job.
If you didn't already have a solutino, you could also sell them to Bimble Solar in Sussex - who would regrade and resell the working panels and recycle materials from any that are duff.
strikes me, aside from the recycling issue (and epic project! we could start to see countries with the higher average sunshine hours start to become soolar exporters in the future), why not use bi-facial solar panels and fill over the ground with white gravel?
Bi-facial panels are something we have looked at recently but nothing much since
@@artisanelectricsdo you think it worth the extra cost per sqm? I’d imagine theyd only be useful in certain circumstances though
I bet the old ones didn't have time to repay themselves. And the owner was upsold with new ones. It will take around 20 years to break even.
Great project, well done. I hope other solar installers can come together with you and try and ensure similar upgrades can be repurposed more often while industrial scale recycling plants ramp up.
Wayne is a natural. Good to see his enthusiasm!
My first thoughts just after the video had started was to donate the panels, so I was so releaved to hear they where going to Africa fantastic work guys and I can see you are all please to be working on this project, having that good feel factor ha!!! I will be doing the very same thing with my panels next year!
Glad you enjoyed it! We were very happy with this project.
I'll have enough of the panels to build a 4Kw south facing system in Scotland !!! I'm a 53 year old Lancia / Fiat Mechanic .. You lads have no idea about corrosion issues ;)
I know that your main switches in England are always placed on the right side, but why not move it to the left for this situation? Now you are creating an extra joint with resistance and heat production. Maybe this is in the Netherlands a little bit different.
Fab cause to support those in need in Africa 😊 great work team
Wayne's a born presenter. He's got a voice for telly.
It looks like optimizers will not be useful as there aren't any obvious shading issues.
Putting the inverters outside is not a good idea, and high voltage DC (500VDC?) would have much less I^2*R losses than 240VAC on the long line to the house.
Silly question but why didn't you place the isolation in the 3phase DB on the left?
Why saw the ends off if the frames. The next upgrade may need those bits! Well done for reusing the panels. It should be elegal to destroy functioning pannels.
Will you be going over to the village to install the old ones?
There is a substantial second use market. I know of 3 sets of people who will bite your hand off for those “old” panels
The issue of solar panel recycling has actually been discussed behind the scenes for many years. Unfortunately, no one wants to put the resources, ie the money, into developing proper solar panel recycling processes
When MCB is in cold environment...so is the cable. And yes, cable can actually carry more current if in cold. Same with MCBs. So why do the hassle of MCB warmer..
I guess it depends on brand and model of MCB.
MK Sentry are only rated down to -5DegC so in winter could drop out of their operating range. 🤷🏻♂️
Get your selves some taller steps!!! Also a bit of head protection when working under the frame wouldn’t go a miss!!
you sell perfectly good old panels. I have lots of second hand ones and they have year's of life in them yet.
not all diyers are going to be making bodgy shit out of them. I just wish they would make it onto the second hand market rather than being landfilled.
Ill come and collect free of charge as many panels as i can to keep them out of landfill or recyclers. its a waste of something that still works
The new panels looks like the new Longi HiMo6 435W Explorer panels: LR5-54HTH-435M
I was a bit confused by the removal of the DC isolators (5:25), but this was explained that when the system is off, the voltage output of each optimizer is just 1V - quite a useful feature and you will probably be able to track to output of each panel.
Is the metal cabinet for the consumer unit at 17:45 weather proof?
I've thought about installing PV solar panels on my house but there are disused water heating panels on the roof from the previous owner. I dont know how much extra it will cost to remove them and possibly fix the roof, on top of the cost of a new PV array
Do it yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good to see the re-purposing of the panels to Mauritania even if they were salable on the UK second hand market. The customers seems to have goals beyond simple economics, if they have the means then that's fine too. One day we'll have proper recycling for true end of life panels, I'm sure regulators will get on top of that just as they have with Lithium batteries [well, EU directives have at least].
Wayne’s got great presentation and voice for TV.
The only efficient place in the world for solar is Africa, the science on this has been published & peer reviewed and know for some years now. The UK doesn't get enough sun, so it takes more fossil fuel energy to make the panels than you get back. Financially it's different, because by purchasing a solar system now you're purchasing cheap energy and labor from China, rather than the UK.
The new guy is very good and very natural. More of him please
👍🤩
Everyone is talking about it - it’s completely not a “hidden” issue.
As you say they currently have so much value you don’t throw them away.
Would love to see where the panels go, and seeing the full journey.
Solar panels are just not efficient enough, very expensive to have a worthwhile setup,only around 30% efficiency, with the uk weather, probably only getting the max out of them for six months of the year, and after you have payed back the initial cost the dam things probably will need replacing,
Good on you mate, brilliant idea, 1 less corruption in a world full of corruption
It’s strange it’s like aluminium and glass can’t be recycled
Why haven't you addressed the low pitch? If you are so worried about running a heat pump, something i would not advise, then you need to chase winter sun. As our latitude is 38 degrees this is the optimum pitch but to bias to winter sun you need to be on plus side of 38 degrees. Trouble is row spacing may then be to tight....
Great project! There was mention that the array was on a FIT. I'm interested to know if the inverter capacity remained the same as it was previously, obviously now the panel kWp has increased significantly. Therefore more generation. Was this cleared with the energy company which pays out the FIT? I will definitely keep you in mind if I have panels which are no longer required.
I've also just posted a comment asking about this. As I now understand it you can increase the system wattage, but the generation reading is pro-rata back to reflect the original system size. So go from 4kW to 8kW, you get paid based on 50% of the generation.
How much carbon footprint that heater will create. How many kWh annually?
Is it safe to disconnect the cables on such a large array even after safely isolating the dc and ac isolators. How do you check theres not a high voltage or current running though the cables?
Given that the total installed capacity has increased how does this affect the Feed in Tariff of the original system?
I am fairly confident that everywhere on earth averages 12 hours of daylight per day over a year
The equator, yes…
Everywhere else, not quite, but effectively also yes
But, more relevant is Solar irradiance…which is wildly different depending on location
What is the typical cost of the optimisers for an install of this size?
What benefits do they provide for an install such as this?
Uplift in performance of about 10% plus individual panel monitoring means we can see if any panel is underperforming and even if it is it will not bring down the whole array. They cost about £60 each.
We're trying to do the same for old laptops and PC's, putting them back to use instead of in a skip. We'd love a new sponsor ;) ;)
@artisanelectrics If one wanted to build an off grid solar pv system where running off a battery rather than grid export was the priority, would a system like this make sense or would one get greater overall efficiency by keeping everything DC from the panels to the battery storage and then only have the AC inverter powered from the battery ?
Yes but that's my point increasing efficiency is irrelevant when there is no running costs. It simply means same power generated from a smaller area. 409w at 10% or 400 w at 30% is 40@ watts period. There is no tax writeoff for non business, it's not a cash donation
Yes there is a benefit. A higher efficiency may result in a lower equivalent pence per kilowatt hour of electricity generated.
It all comes down to how much higher the equipment costs are at the higher efficiency.
Why did you install optimizers. Didn't see any shading risk. These optimizers need also power to operate and increase risk of failure significantly - 96 electronic boxes out in the weather day and night 🤔
I like the SolarEdge it’s a good system but if there isn’t a specific need due to shading then I’d steer away. The safety factor is worth looking at but that can be mitigated with quality MC4’s & proper terminations.
I also wondered this, added also the panels are split face so handle shading a little better! I have the Himo 5’s
Is Wayne taking over your channel now?😅
I usually hate changes and new people but i actually like him and the way he speaks clearly and calmly
I want to hear more on the panels donated and how the village gets on with them!
was there no one in the uk that could of had them panels like a school which is underfunded and finding it hard to pay the heating bills in winter ?
Why not just move the breaker to the left instead of the right if the cabls are too short?
Sound. All the og lads back. Good work boys.
i don't like all the ads really ruins the channel imo, but what a great thing to do sending the old pv to Africa
Got to pay for holiday..... I quit video due to too much advertising.
It seems mad there isn't a way of scraping the back layer off and 're-printing' PV panels when their output's no longer good enough. Presumably a pane of glass in an aluminium frame could last almost forever? That way there'd only be a tiny bit of e-waste per panel per upgrade. I'm not suggesting it should be done on site (might be nice for one dead panel in a serviceable array?), rather as a last resort before actually scrapping the whole lot.
They’re fully bonded I think , the bond is probably stronger than the glass
@@stephenfanthorpe2708that does seem likely to be the case with current tech
What printing?
@@joeroberts6056 they can be almost fully recycled buy not disassembled and rebuilt easily
@@joeroberts6056 I said "printing" because it was the simplest word I could think of to describe what would have to happen for my fantasy solution to work. I'm imagining the frame and pane of glass being used more or less forever, and the PV layer on the back being removed and a new one put back on. If it was 'printed' it could always properly fill the frame. If it was a replacement 'film' to be re-bonded / re-laminated whatever, you'd have to order them to fit. There is no "printing" yet as far as I know - sorry for the confusion.
Sorry guys but these videos aren't as good. All this jumping in and out to Jordan.....bit monotonous. The 'spark' is going. Pardon the Pun. I think we either do without Jordan or have one set - not drop ins. My thoughts - anyone else the same or just me ! Sorry 😮
Donating old panels to Africa is a bit like musical chairs, eventually they will need proper disposal.
The continual evolution of electronics whether it be pv, computers, switchgear, EV, etc etc means that a proper recycling system needs to be developed. Aggregates for building materials comes to mind for the hard stuff and the metals should be reused.
Love to see how this channel has grown / evolved!
Whenever i see "NOBODY Is Talking About! " in a RUclips , you know they haven't done any research or its clickbait
Curious to know how the panels are recycled in Africa after they’ve done with the solar panels!!!
Massive landfill sites ...chucked in with all the wind turbine blades which only have 20yr lifespan
Great video. Fascinating. Thanks!
19:35 hahaha for once it would be right to say kW, like you always say with battery capacities.
But ...VERY GOOD idea. Totally support and great your doing it 👍💪👍💪
We are glad you enjoyed!
Ye but the guy that sold them a decade ago said these ones were ultra efficient 🤔
In 10 years the technology has moved on. They are now reaching a point where new panels are coming close to the theoretical limit so there will be fewer or smaller advances going forward.
@@ewadge adding heat extraction will be only way forward.....
Id love the old ones jordan
You mentioned FIT payments. You know you can’t get FIT payments if you change the system, only lower SEG.
Also, I thought over-sleeving an earth cable was an absolute no no, or is that only in multi cored cables?
This must be why they reduced the number of panels. I guess these panels have the same overall peak power but produce more power in lower light, making the upgrade worthwhile.
Do you have a link to the Ofgem document that states that?
@@andyca15 It's the "feed in" that counts, if they use more of the energy produced to heat lets say a large heat store during the day all is good!
@@timballam3675 FITS is basded on the generation, regardless of whether you use it or not.
Under recent regulations you can increase the size of a FITS system, but you are paid pro-rata. For example, you have a 4kW of installed panels, you double it to 8kW, you would be paid FITS based on 50% of your generations, so just 4kW.
Should have used a tracking system for a third of the panels. That way you'd get a decent amount back come the winter months. 25-35% more efficiency with the tracker. Ok they arnt cheap but neither is 96 new panels. If the bumfs right at 25-35% more efficient then they will pay for themselves a lot quicker.
Have you done any jobs that add batteries and separate solar panels to a house that has existing solar panels without affecting existing fit payments?
Why not send out the accessories too, i'm sure the isoaltor and inverters have a lot more life in them
I need some shingles for my house. These should last a long time.
Isn’t the problem that we are increasing the cost of power generation by installing intermittent wind generation and non optimally placed solar panels then expecting the (conventional) grid to cope with the power swings so caused …
You should really advertise this so that the average population see that the anti-solar people's claims are just misinformation and they can see that they're actually reused rather than their misinformation of them ending up in landfills. Especially for this truly worthy cause reuse case.
Solar Edge optimisers are not suitable and represent an unnecessary expense in this installation.
My solar edge are really bad in dull conditions, maybe the optimizers self consume what little power is generated. And of course they were not even needed in that open field.
Why would they even say the are destined for the land full when they can easily be sold to the 2nd hand market
Criminal to take out all that gear before they done its full life!
The talk about solar panels as if they just grow on a tree, all the framework the cables the isolators etc all just naturally hanging off branches. Very good in isolated places and for a single house in some cases, but a very high carbon footprint to produce,
My parents have 30 Sunpower panels, according to their website, they are recyclable