This type of attitude is the exact reason why studios make so many stale and lifeless movies these days. Storytelling isn’t about giving fans or audiences what they want it’s about crafting stories that people can gain something from. Whether that’s entertainment or emotional connection or intellectual stimulation. If you don’t like the story that’s fine. But you don’t get to say that the story should have been completely different that’s not a critic.
No it DIDNT need a sequel. A good sequel leads to a trilogy & eventually Joker would need a Batman to bounce off of, similar to how Superman needs a Lois Lane. That would never work because this Joker was never physically or mentally capable to compete with a Batman. As a standalone story it works well though.
@@jordanalford2825Nahh first joker was it's own unique version and did what you just said. This just didn't and why the musical element. This just wasn't it and even the critics agree.
@@jordanalford2825not every movie needs a sequel. 1. Nothing about the ending of the first Joker movie hinted at a potential sequel 2. Todd Phillips and Phoenix both said (at the time of Joker’s release) that they had no intention of a sequel. Sure a sequel can work, whether it’s warranted or not. But the point is Joker is one of those movies (just like Taxi Driver) where it works on its own
I think you’re off the mark there. In 10 years this movie will have its niche cult audience. And with the benefit of hindsight people will look back more graciously.
Much respect... but the movie sucked 😂. I dont think a total character deconstruction of the joker in folie a deux is going to be a cult hit. It makes the first film irrelevant. His child abuse was brought up in the first. Every part of the court segment was a re tread of the first film. Bruh the prison guards Graped the Joker outta him. This was not a joker movie in essence. And Sidenote. If you tell your therapist/psychiatrist that you've commited or contemplating a murder they have to tell the authorities. Crazy times we are in, where The Penguin outshines The Joker.
This might be a controversial opinion, but I'd say the writing was pretty much on the wall since the first film, considering that in itself was already a deconstruction of The Joker. Not a very good one, but a deconstruction nonetheless.
@andytrevino4077 if that was truly the case, not as vast as folie a deux. The first film pretty much copied Taxi Driver and King Of Comedy as a blueprint/structure. I only agree with your statement slightly, directed at Jaquin Phoenix random performance choices. Deconstruction is what happened in folie a deux. The first film showed the birth of the Joker persona. Folie a deux took that away.
This is why SOME movies do not need a sequel, we all knew it and based on the trailer we all saw this coming (real comic fans and those who like the super hero genre). @Struggle Thank you Mdog and Joe for your integrity as even when I disagree with you i KNOW your both coming from a place of fandom
I respect y'alls opinion more than almost all other review channels but as much as I'm curious, I don't want to chance wasting time and money. I'll probably catch it on Max when it starts streaming in a few months.
It will depend on what local and national laws apply, but in the US the general guideline is that confidentiality must be protected with the exceptions of a duty to protect (if the client is in danger of hurting themself), a duty to warn (if the client is in danger of hurting someone else), and other mandatory reporting requirements (abuse of children or other vulnerable populations). There is no duty to report a crime that has already happened, but there is a pretty well protected duty to protect the public, so it is my impression that many psychiatrists (therapists etc) might tend to lean towards reporting a recent murder. (James Hayford)
I thought it was good. Not as good as the first one. But honestly it wasn't as bad as ppl are making it seem. I agree that if you already have a bias, especially when it comes to musicals you might not be able to appreciate the film. Personally, I've always enjoyed musicals as long as there is a good story. Personally the acting was superb, the story was really good. I would say people should give it a chance and make up your own mind. Don't listen to the hate, listen to your own experience. I give it an 8/10. The first one is this the best. but this was good too in my opinion. Like he said in the video, I liked more than I didn't like. And that's good enough for me :)
Idky I actually really liked it. I saw it last Thursday and went back to see i on Imax the next day. It's more about understanding the mix up of different types of mental illnesses Fleck has and how he was doped up on pharmaceuticals. His psychosis, which is presented as the musical bits were hit break from reality moments and were actually used to foreshadow he was going to get fucked up by others and himself. Understatement of an Idiom of him shooting himself in the "foot" when deciding to go his own way in the courtroom. As I was watching it for the first time in retrospect to his musical scenes I thought this actually makes sense for the joker. Cesar Romero had a singing bit back in the 60s, Jack Nicholson had a goofy dancing around scene back in 1989, Mark Hamill did it on the animated series, Troy Baker sang in the Arkham games series. It just makes sense to me and musical scenes did not bother me at all. In retrospect it's fitting for that character. I did see Lee as the antagonist though. Had to just sabotage everything that could've possibly been beneficial for Fleck. Like M-Dog, I can see why ppl won't like it, but, again, in retrospect it just makes sense.
Great review! Am sure people have said this already, but you need to rewatch that end scene again and actually watch what’s going on in the background rather than Arthur. Confirms your theory/thoughts about that other prisoner!
The first movie was Taxi Driver w/elements of Kings of Comedy dressed up as a DC Joker film. How he didn't see the opportunity to make the sequel One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest set in Arkham asylum is wild to me.
I can respect somebody for genuinely liking/disliking something but, if you’re the type of person who likes/dislikes something just to be different, I can’t respect it because it’s not genuine.
This was never supposed to have a sequel, and it shows from the ending. Anyone ever watch the Old Daffy Duck cartoons? Scarlet Pumpernickle, where Daffy shoots himself because he ran out of ideas and desperate? That's Joker: Folie a Deux, same ending, same beat, same bar.
i LOVED it. i love musicals so when i knew we were getting joker/harley with songs and dance sequences i got excited. i understand why people are saying it’s unnecessary to have but at the end of the day you could say that about literally everything. this movie was a great reminder about how arthur is still a human first, no matter how you wanna look at him or judge him for his actions. you gotta appreciate why he even got to the point he got to in the first place, it’s an important conversation to have
Gotta say, I had zero interest in even hearing anything about this movie until MDogg gave his own impressions. Respect for coming to your own opinion, regardless of the public's general thoughts on the movie.
Law enforcement needs a court order to obtain psychiatric records. Therapists also have a duty to warn if a client seems to have a plan to harm themselves or others. That must be reported or the therapist can be held accountable. A therapist will tell a client of these exceptions to confidentiality.
It took a character known for committing crimes and killing people and gave him no ability to commit crimes or kill people except in his dreams. It's like making a Hannibal Lecter movie where he's tied up the whole time and just has dreams about eating people.
In the first movie we cheered for him when he becomes joker. In the second movie everyone wanted joker and we got Arthur fleck story. In the movie the media and everyone wanted joker cuz he’s entertaining. No one care about Arthur fleck, this movie was meant to get ppl angry cuz everyone wanted a joker movie not an Arthur Fleck story. I liked this movie
I personally enjoyed it. The film was not by any means perfect, but it was a pretty good movie in my opinion. I'm a big lady gaga fan so I had my eye on Harley a lot more than the average viewer. But I'm pretty upset with what Todd Phillips did with the character. I think Gaga was a great fit for the movie, and she was good enough to hold her own against Joaquin Phoenix which is an achievement in itself. But from beginning to end, Harley's character lacks depth and character development. If you watch an interview with lady gaga discussing the role. she will tell you that Lee is complex, and that lee loved Arthur after all, and that she had her reasons for what she did. But none of this is true after watching the movie, and lee's character didn't have a chance to reach its full potential. I just don't think Lee had enough screen time for Gaga's interpretation to take full effect on screen, and that's my biggest critique of this film. That she wasn't given a fair chance, while the slow courtroom scenes dragged on, Harley was in the background watching, no dialogue, no real impact on the story. And the musical sequences didn't seem push the story along either, which made up many of her scenes. I'm just disappointed with how her character was handled, and I truly feel that the filmmakers didn't allow Gaga to show her true vision for the character, which only makes me angrier.
REAL talk, reassessing movies after some time and a rewatch can make a huge difference in our opinions. A lot of people either dont care to understand that or they're actually scared of the possibility of changing their mind.
I had the same reaction with the first joker movie. First time watching it I hated it and didn’t understand how someone could like a Joker without Batman until I rewatched it. Now I believe it’s top 50 movies of all time
Dude i could have watched a crime documentary or some movie with shouts hope in it. Why the heck was joker confused in this movie. The movie didn’t even reach its crescendo it was just swinging in between.
Yea I tried to give it a chance because Joaquin didn't disappoint.. but he didn't write this.. sad he still followed through. The mockery of the first one and the hate it apparently had, it was a masterpiece. They turned it into a "made for TV movie" that's dirty
Thanks for this video. I enjoyed the movie. I like musicals so I appreciate the musical aspects of the film. I also enjoyed the performances from Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga. I think it works as a follow-up to the first one. I appreciate the movie for being bold and taking some big swings. We will probably never get another musical in this genre so I am glad it exists.
I liked it until the 3rd act…. After the implied S/A scene with the guards I was over it. I didn’t even mind it being a musical they just went left with the story. I didn’t like the ending even with it being interpreted 100 different ways online. This movie is depressing, and nothing like the first. I do encourage people to form their own opinions. Like you said if you liked the first film give this one a chance… at home. 😅 Don’t spend money at the movies for this.
I agree, ppl should go and watch it to judge for themselves. I’m going to buy it and watch it for the first time. When you said there are movies that bombed years ago are now seen as amazing, do you think in 20 years ppl will see Madame Web as an amazing movie that we couldn’t see? 😂
Author fleck told y’all at the end of the first movie, y’all wouldn’t get it. But I respect y’all opinions, instead of being simple minded and just dismissing it, y’all are actually trying to dissect it. I personally loved the creative direction, reminded me of Sweeney Todd for those who know
IMO this movie was an 8 out of 10.. my only complaint was that Joker & Lee would break into song when they didnt need to. I dont mind musicals but I felt it overtook the movie too much. If they wouldve balanced out a lil better then this movie is a 9 out of 10.
I like the musical concept. It shows how he handles his psychotic disorder and depression. Though i agree that the singing became too much at one point.
Two people, two different opinions, both well said. I liked this movie but I think I took away different things from the first movie than most. I feel time will be good to this movie after people actually see it instead of creating opinions based on others.
I liked it when it came to the story until the end. The musical aspect could’ve been better to me. I liked the joker is me song and the were gonna build a mountain song, but other than those songs, eh. I personally give it a 6 because of the way it ended. If the ending was better it would’ve been higher.
I was waiting for you guys review, and I’m glad I’m not the only one. I actually enjoyed the movie spite everyone hating on it. I agree with you on you can see why people would not like it, especially because it’s a musical. And I’m not the biggest fan of those movies but I can enjoy them going in with an open mind and no bias. I actually don’t think the movie is as bad as everyone is saying or jumping in the wagon of it being bad. Everyone has their opinions and that’s the beauty of cinema. It can be interpreted in many ways. I think this movie will grow over time. Maybe I’m wrong and ir doesn’t But I enjoyed it. As you said there’s more that I liked than I didn’t like.
First time seeing this channel. Happily subscribing! I just found it to be disappointing. Not terrible but not good enough considering how great the first one was. I thought the more over the top musical sequences were actually the best parts but not done well enough imo. I also didn't mind the story direction but I felt like the road there was a big misstep. I also agree about this version of Harley being very interesting. I just wish they did more with it.
As someone who works with HIPAA cases that go to trial. The patient’s record and the doctor themselves can be requested and subpoena’d to be presented to the judge to disclose HIPAA info. Especially if it involves a crime. It’s not that uncommon.
What's more, no one wanted it to be done in relation to this sequel, but nothing could end up turning it into a joke in bad taste than what it was and meant in its first part. And she'd better stay alone.
From what I understand Arthur regressed. Instead of the same triumphant Joker we saw in the first movie he's back to square one and for what? They totally scrapped the Eat The Rich mindset of Joker 1.
Nah I actually liked it you have to take a new narrative and remember the movies are not telling a story about the dark crime lord it's about Arthur himself both movies are
@@luna-mo3ol you need to go to a university to do a character study dont put sense into a fictional character giving him a moral. Keep hands away from classical comic characters.
Sometimes creators have an idea that plays out with multiple beginnings, middles and ends along the way, making sequels or serializations smooth. It seems like the ideas were only fully baked for the first movie, and this sequel needed more sauce and flambe before being served. They had the perfect opportunity to follow society failing those with mental health issues with the justice system doing similar for the correctional industrial complex and did not take it.
Todd Philips said he didn’t want to come back and make a sequel. So when WB called and payed him crazy money he basically did a total dissection of the character and the audience. He basically threw it in our face that we’re wrong for glorifying someone like Arthur Fleck who’s clearly unstable, was pushed to a breaking point, and wants to see him kill. The more we glorify this behavior, the more it becomes inherited.
I expected psychological drama about Arthur Fleck, and not capeshit supervillain shit, and i'm not disappointed. But even if i focus on DCU, i really like the idea of Joker not being one single person, but more of an idea, it makes "him" more dangerous.
23:02 not to mention he then starts cutting his face up showing the scars that joker had with his mouth and smiling . He cuts his face just like heaths joker did
@@quentinperkins6002 No not at all lol The movie takes place in the 80's and they already introduced adult Harvey Dent and kid Bruce Wayne which doesn't fit in Nolan Batman universe.
It could have worked really well, if they perhaps took more of a Moulin Rouge route by having the songs say what the characters could not. It’s a bold choice. I think that the musical aspect felt too jarring for many.
@@kazetoameI think it was brilliant that they went about it this direction. Could the musical elements have been handled better? Absolutely. But because it was such a bold thing for them to do, I applaud it nonetheless.
The problem was joker set the bar high for rated R comic book film" not only that, it walked away with Oscar and smash the box office before covid hit" as an it was organic boxoffice number " before inflation , So sadly Joker 2 died by the hands of the bar it set 🤕
Great movie imo, musicals came when his emotions switched(hallucinations), turning joker into a symbol & not a person was 🔥, Harley manipulated him 👍🏾& being a psycho psychiatrist 😂
I still watch scenes for the 1st Joker flick and Will always be fans of Lady Gaga & mr. Phoenix. That being said, I still haven't finished watching sequel and not in a hurry to get back to it. It was director's experimental Hail Mary that missed the mark. The story Arc quickly diluted and I lost a sense where the plot was going. I wanted to be engaged and hooked but there is clearly no comparison to the first one. I'm gonna watch the first one again to recover.... Peace
I liked the movie. I thought it was good. It definitely had issues and stuff I did not like. And it's definitely not as good as the first one. But overall it was good. Joker 8.5/10 or B+ Joker 2 7.5/10 or B-
I don't think it's a horrible movie like many people think, it has some very bad things but in general it's a good movie, it has some very accurate reviews and others that don't make sense, Joaquin Phoenix's performance is impressive and he deserves to be nominated for the Oscars again. What I hated most about the movie is that the director treats you as if you were stupid, he reiterates things a lot to make sure we understand what's going on, as if it were very complex when it's not, like the guy who tells a joke to Arthur at the end of the movie. Did Phillips really think that we didn't expect the guy to do something to Arthur? LITERALLY THE CAMERA FOCUS ON HIM LIKE 3 TIMES AND HE ALWAYS HAS THE FACE OF A FUCKING VILLAIN
I hope Joe goes into The Last of Us Season 2 with this individualistic opinion mindset instead of letting online (and M-Drew's) hate taint his perspective.
Bro respectfully, I’d…I been following yall channel since like 2012 maybe earlier….i feel u did Way too much talking to give reason on why you’re okay with not saying this movie was awful, yes we’re all entitled but as ya mans said about you not following the crowd(I’ve never been a ride the wave person either) but at the 7:30 mark of u still covering up for this film after stating it may be a quick review…felt u coulda kept it a buck n said “I liked it but I understand if others don’t”..once again salute, it’s like watching yall reviews is like talking amongst brothers but ehhhh this movie I walked out n was told I missed nothing
This movie didn't need to exist and I stand by that. It felt like Todd Phillips wanted to make a response to the first movie and purposely step on the toes of the people that liked the first one. Although I feel like that's the case, there are things about the movie that are interesting ideas that could've worked. They just weren't that well executed in my opinion. I don't hate the movie as much as some people, but I can't say I like it that much either.
Perfect review. Too many people want to make their opinion on something the same exact opinion of their favorite RUclipsrs or streamers or friends. Nobody wants to make opinions for themselves anymore. Give things a chance and don’t be afraid to be different.
I was also thinking the guy that killed Arthur at the end turns into the joker we know. Cause you can see and hear him carving a smile to his face after using Arthur’s blood to make the red smile on his face.
My opinion is pretty much the same as yours, I liked it more than I disliked it, and as a whole I liked it, loved the first one though. When it comes to the guy that stabbed him, I interpreted it as just a cult follower who was disappointed in him and wanted to emulate him, not necessarily making him the next joker. Unless Todd Phillips says we'll never really know. My last thought is that for the majority of people that didn't like it I'll just say what Arthur said once or twice "you wouldn't get it".
Be it positive or negative, if your opinion happens to fall into the majority that doesn't mean you're following the crowd. I didn't care for the first one and I'm not supporting this one but I will see it one day to have my own opinion.
As much as i don't like this sequel, i understand why it was made. there was NO WAY this "Joker" was EVER going to meet or share the same universe with Batman. Had joker not met little Bruce in part one it would have probably opened the door to more possibilities. Its like when Rocky Balboa went to Russia to fight Drago and he left his then 6 year old son at home, then 3 months later he comes home to find his son is now 12 and on the honor roll...HOW!!??
We are living in denial if we believe that Joaquin Phoenix, the artsy-artist who was glorified 5 years ago for his Batmanless performance, was ever going to co-star with yet another actor taking on the Bat mantle. Now that this movie's released, it makes sense why his only superhero sequel (something that would otherwise never be on his resume) was framed this way, and I don't even watch Phoenix's movies. Perhaps another Batman performance was what you wanted, but we don't need to say that's what was needed. Those are two different conversations
Would rather use money to see Transformers One than this…While I agree that some movies ya may not like much when first viewing it and it growing on ya(EXAMPLE: I didn’t like Age of Ultron much at all, Iron Man 2 also took time to be appreciated..Iron Man 3 using a fake Mandarin when the trailer teased the rings…I ended up liking the film later)…THIS movie I certainly don’t expect that turn around..just like I’ve never rewatched BvS nor Snyderverse Suicide Squad since first viewing
The movie was incredible I loved it I didn’t like parts and half of it I wasn’t feeling it the bad parts I was like this is painfully bad and the parts that worked I was like better then the first something massive no one is talking about is the guy that kills Arthur we hear him getting killed by the guards before that scene happens we hear the guards saying your killing him stop don’t do it we hear him dying he dies they say he is gone then that ending scene happens there is something with that
I think there's so much overreaction to this movie. It wasn't garbage but i can understand why people were disappointed with the direction they took with the film.
Joker 1 was very overrated, Arthur is not true to the Joker character. The joker shouldn’t have a backstory imo. With that being said, Joker 1 was not a bad movie. Glad to see a different option about #2 tho
I don't understand the hate other than the musical aspect however I enjoyed this movie. Saw it twice and left the second viewing just a couple of hours ago and this time wanted to really pay closer attention to the lyrics. Once I did it instantly went from a 8/10 premiere night I went to into a 9/10. I don't want to say forced hate but some people really outta stop going by word of mouth and just see things for themselves. It's why I never ever listen to reviews and I'm glad I did not. Enjoyed myself ☺️
I still think joker didnt need a sequel.
Phillips and Pheonix both said they would never do a sequel. I imagine that changed very quickly when they saw the one billion dollar check.
It never did. This sounds more like an epilogue than an actual story
Well every movie didn’t need a sequel 🤷🏻♂️
@@Alvinthebest_PR I wouldn’t say every movie didn’t need a sequel
It really didn't. Joker worked best as a standalone and this sequel added nothing. A complete waste of time and money.
"There was nothing for me to sit there and like" 😂
Perfect
Well said
It's not that Joker didn't need a sequel. It's that it didn't need THIS sequel
This type of attitude is the exact reason why studios make so many stale and lifeless movies these days. Storytelling isn’t about giving fans or audiences what they want it’s about crafting stories that people can gain something from. Whether that’s entertainment or emotional connection or intellectual stimulation. If you don’t like the story that’s fine. But you don’t get to say that the story should have been completely different that’s not a critic.
No it DIDNT need a sequel. A good sequel leads to a trilogy & eventually Joker would need a Batman to bounce off of, similar to how Superman needs a Lois Lane. That would never work because this Joker was never physically or mentally capable to compete with a Batman. As a standalone story it works well though.
i mean its both
@@jordanalford2825Nahh first joker was it's own unique version and did what you just said. This just didn't and why the musical element. This just wasn't it and even the critics agree.
@@jordanalford2825not every movie needs a sequel.
1. Nothing about the ending of the first Joker movie hinted at a potential sequel
2. Todd Phillips and Phoenix both said (at the time of Joker’s release) that they had no intention of a sequel.
Sure a sequel can work, whether it’s warranted or not. But the point is Joker is one of those movies (just like Taxi Driver) where it works on its own
That guy who told his Joke in the end not just laughing, he cut his mouth by his "joke" weapon.
It was the only decent scene in the whole film making it a 1/10 rather than straight up 0 IMO
Yeah this movie is gonna age like an open bottle of milk
😂😂😂 yeah
😂😂
I think you’re off the mark there. In 10 years this movie will have its niche cult audience. And with the benefit of hindsight people will look back more graciously.
@@RobertLivingston828 I disagree, this movie was made for Disney kids not general audiences
@@joseestrada395 not sure how you watched that Prison Guard scene and the ending and thought it was made for Disney Kids
The cartoon part at the beginning was the best part. After that this movie was boring.
You mist be 14 years old
@@travisbickle5829 No but you MUST be seeing as you don't know how to spell.
Awful animation. Joker blended in with the walls.
@@travisbickle5829damm you got ratio’d
@@Kai-ps8lu cute, making up words that don’t exist. Jou Ma Se Vet Vuil Poes.
Much respect... but the movie sucked 😂. I dont think a total character deconstruction of the joker in folie a deux is going to be a cult hit. It makes the first film irrelevant. His child abuse was brought up in the first. Every part of the court segment was a re tread of the first film. Bruh the prison guards Graped the Joker outta him. This was not a joker movie in essence. And Sidenote. If you tell your therapist/psychiatrist that you've commited or contemplating a murder they have to tell the authorities.
Crazy times we are in, where The Penguin outshines The Joker.
This might be a controversial opinion, but I'd say the writing was pretty much on the wall since the first film, considering that in itself was already a deconstruction of The Joker. Not a very good one, but a deconstruction nonetheless.
@andytrevino4077 if that was truly the case, not as vast as folie a deux. The first film pretty much copied Taxi Driver and King Of Comedy as a blueprint/structure. I only agree with your statement slightly, directed at Jaquin Phoenix random performance choices. Deconstruction is what happened in folie a deux. The first film showed the birth of the Joker persona. Folie a deux took that away.
This is why SOME movies do not need a sequel, we all knew it and based on the trailer we all saw this coming (real comic fans and those who like the super hero genre). @Struggle Thank you Mdog and Joe for your integrity as even when I disagree with you i KNOW your both coming from a place of fandom
I respect y'alls opinion more than almost all other review channels but as much as I'm curious, I don't want to chance wasting time and money. I'll probably catch it on Max when it starts streaming in a few months.
All the audience reviews (Rotten Tomatoes) said don't waste your money.
A few weeks, you mean lol
@seanyoung9014 lol I think it'll have more legs than Borderlands 😆
Even with the poor score/ reviews
Pure pain. 😢. Had some good scenes but I was hoping for way more
It was what we call DREK in my culture basically you tried to make a decent product but you made some drek 🗑️ instead
It will depend on what local and national laws apply, but in the US the general guideline is that confidentiality must be protected with the exceptions of a duty to protect (if the client is in danger of hurting themself), a duty to warn (if the client is in danger of hurting someone else), and other mandatory reporting requirements (abuse of children or other vulnerable populations).
There is no duty to report a crime that has already happened, but there is a pretty well protected duty to protect the public, so it is my impression that many psychiatrists (therapists etc) might tend to lean towards reporting a recent murder. (James Hayford)
I thought it was good. Not as good as the first one. But honestly it wasn't as bad as ppl are making it seem. I agree that if you already have a bias, especially when it comes to musicals you might not be able to appreciate the film. Personally, I've always enjoyed musicals as long as there is a good story. Personally the acting was superb, the story was really good.
I would say people should give it a chance and make up your own mind. Don't listen to the hate, listen to your own experience.
I give it an 8/10. The first one is this the best. but this was good too in my opinion. Like he said in the video, I liked more than I didn't like. And that's good enough for me :)
Today is my birthday 🎂 y’all
Happy birthday 🎉
Happy birthday
Happy birthday.
Hbd Fam Enjoy from Canada🔥🇨🇦
happy birthday! hope you enjoy your day
While this movie was no masterpiece, it had it’s moments and Lady GaGa was wonderful in it.
No she wasn’t
Idky I actually really liked it. I saw it last Thursday and went back to see i on Imax the next day. It's more about understanding the mix up of different types of mental illnesses Fleck has and how he was doped up on pharmaceuticals. His psychosis, which is presented as the musical bits were hit break from reality moments and were actually used to foreshadow he was going to get fucked up by others and himself. Understatement of an Idiom of him shooting himself in the "foot" when deciding to go his own way in the courtroom. As I was watching it for the first time in retrospect to his musical scenes I thought this actually makes sense for the joker. Cesar Romero had a singing bit back in the 60s, Jack Nicholson had a goofy dancing around scene back in 1989, Mark Hamill did it on the animated series, Troy Baker sang in the Arkham games series. It just makes sense to me and musical scenes did not bother me at all. In retrospect it's fitting for that character. I did see Lee as the antagonist though. Had to just sabotage everything that could've possibly been beneficial for Fleck. Like M-Dog, I can see why ppl won't like it, but, again, in retrospect it just makes sense.
Great review! Am sure people have said this already, but you need to rewatch that end scene again and actually watch what’s going on in the background rather than Arthur. Confirms your theory/thoughts about that other prisoner!
I think that there’s something beautiful deadly about a musical-esque sequel over here, man!
100% but this isn't it
I agree! I thought it was brilliant.
@@BrandonCornwall-fn6mo yup i would have watched la la land
He said give it a few years, lol for me it would be like about 60 years of marination.
Right, I’m like bro…just say u liked it and may be in the minority
The first movie was Taxi Driver w/elements of Kings of Comedy dressed up as a DC Joker film. How he didn't see the opportunity to make the sequel One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest set in Arkham asylum is wild to me.
I can respect somebody for genuinely liking/disliking something but, if you’re the type of person who likes/dislikes something just to be different, I can’t respect it because it’s not genuine.
I saw it today and loved it. It’s gloriously messy and heartbreaking.
This was never supposed to have a sequel, and it shows from the ending.
Anyone ever watch the Old Daffy Duck cartoons? Scarlet Pumpernickle, where Daffy shoots himself because he ran out of ideas and desperate?
That's Joker: Folie a Deux, same ending, same beat, same bar.
i LOVED it. i love musicals so when i knew we were getting joker/harley with songs and dance sequences i got excited. i understand why people are saying it’s unnecessary to have but at the end of the day you could say that about literally everything. this movie was a great reminder about how arthur is still a human first, no matter how you wanna look at him or judge him for his actions. you gotta appreciate why he even got to the point he got to in the first place, it’s an important conversation to have
Keep Todd Philips away from making sequels. Especially when they’re unnecessary.
It kills me they let that moron do another one after he did the Hangover part 2 😂😂😂
Director slapped the joker title on these movies to trick you to go see them. They’re nothing like their characters should be. Not even 40% accuracy.
Yeah especially the first one. This one he wanted to deliberately piss off the fans of his Joker who thought he was a justified hero or something
Joker didn't even do any Joker esque things lol It's just Arthur in the whole movie.
@@KazzKobbhe actively rejected and denied being the Joker until he died
My favorite line in the movie, "Why didn't you tell me your dog was Catholic?"
Gotta say, I had zero interest in even hearing anything about this movie until MDogg gave his own impressions. Respect for coming to your own opinion, regardless of the public's general thoughts on the movie.
🔴 The director DID NOT want to do a sequel and was pressured. This is the result.
Then he should have said no n let somebody else direct it.
Todd Phillips is a comedic movie director. He needs rip stick to comedies because these “Joker” movies are trash 🗑
They done graped the joker bruh. Like what the actual fuck was this movie?
There were a few things I definitely wouldn't have done but overall it isn't bad in my opinion. It's well made and well acted.
Law enforcement needs a court order to obtain psychiatric records. Therapists also have a duty to warn if a client seems to have a plan to harm themselves or others. That must be reported or the therapist can be held accountable. A therapist will tell a client of these exceptions to confidentiality.
It took a character known for committing crimes and killing people and gave him no ability to commit crimes or kill people except in his dreams. It's like making a Hannibal Lecter movie where he's tied up the whole time and just has dreams about eating people.
It’s DIFFERENT is a understatement 😂
In the first movie we cheered for him when he becomes joker. In the second movie everyone wanted joker and we got Arthur fleck story. In the movie the media and everyone wanted joker cuz he’s entertaining. No one care about Arthur fleck, this movie was meant to get ppl angry cuz everyone wanted a joker movie not an Arthur Fleck story. I liked this movie
I also liked the movie too. But i get why others didn't.
Well, I was neutral. Didn't hate it. It was boring. I liked the ending though. No one gave a shite about Arthur. They all wanted...Joker!
I personally enjoyed it. The film was not by any means perfect, but it was a pretty good movie in my opinion.
I'm a big lady gaga fan so I had my eye on Harley a lot more than the average viewer. But I'm pretty upset with what Todd Phillips did with the character. I think Gaga was a great fit for the movie, and she was good enough to hold her own against Joaquin Phoenix which is an achievement in itself. But from beginning to end, Harley's character lacks depth and character development. If you watch an interview with lady gaga discussing the role. she will tell you that Lee is complex, and that lee loved Arthur after all, and that she had her reasons for what she did. But none of this is true after watching the movie, and lee's character didn't have a chance to reach its full potential.
I just don't think Lee had enough screen time for Gaga's interpretation to take full effect on screen, and that's my biggest critique of this film. That she wasn't given a fair chance, while the slow courtroom scenes dragged on, Harley was in the background watching, no dialogue, no real impact on the story. And the musical sequences didn't seem push the story along either, which made up many of her scenes. I'm just disappointed with how her character was handled, and I truly feel that the filmmakers didn't allow Gaga to show her true vision for the character, which only makes me angrier.
REAL talk, reassessing movies after some time and a rewatch can make a huge difference in our opinions. A lot of people either dont care to understand that or they're actually scared of the possibility of changing their mind.
Or it just sucked and was pointless and is bombing at the box office.
I had the same reaction with the first joker movie. First time watching it I hated it and didn’t understand how someone could like a Joker without Batman until I rewatched it. Now I believe it’s top 50 movies of all time
Dude i could have watched a crime documentary or some movie with shouts hope in it. Why the heck was joker confused in this movie. The movie didn’t even reach its crescendo it was just swinging in between.
Nah man this movie is trash regardless
@20tejas "Why the heck was joker confused in this movie" what do you mean?
Yea I tried to give it a chance because Joaquin didn't disappoint.. but he didn't write this.. sad he still followed through. The mockery of the first one and the hate it apparently had, it was a masterpiece. They turned it into a "made for TV movie" that's dirty
Thanks for this video. I enjoyed the movie. I like musicals so I appreciate the musical aspects of the film. I also enjoyed the performances from Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga. I think it works as a follow-up to the first one. I appreciate the movie for being bold and taking some big swings. We will probably never get another musical in this genre so I am glad it exists.
I liked it until the 3rd act…. After the implied S/A scene with the guards I was over it. I didn’t even mind it being a musical they just went left with the story. I didn’t like the ending even with it being interpreted 100 different ways online. This movie is depressing, and nothing like the first. I do encourage people to form their own opinions. Like you said if you liked the first film give this one a chance… at home. 😅 Don’t spend money at the movies for this.
I agree, ppl should go and watch it to judge for themselves.
I’m going to buy it and watch it for the first time.
When you said there are movies that bombed years ago are now seen as amazing, do you think in 20 years ppl will see Madame Web as an amazing movie that we couldn’t see? 😂
I liked it, and it only gets better with each watch once you understand what these films are. I don't even give a slice of a shit what anyone thinks.
Author fleck told y’all at the end of the first movie, y’all wouldn’t get it. But I respect y’all opinions, instead of being simple minded and just dismissing it, y’all are actually trying to dissect it. I personally loved the creative direction, reminded me of Sweeney Todd for those who know
I truly believe if this movie had more Blood & violence especially with the musical sequences people would've really liked this movie!
IMO this movie was an 8 out of 10.. my only complaint was that Joker & Lee would break into song when they didnt need to. I dont mind musicals but I felt it overtook the movie too much. If they wouldve balanced out a lil better then this movie is a 9 out of 10.
I like the musical concept. It shows how he handles his psychotic disorder and depression. Though i agree that the singing became too much at one point.
Two people, two different opinions, both well said. I liked this movie but I think I took away different things from the first movie than most. I feel time will be good to this movie after people actually see it instead of creating opinions based on others.
And I thought my jokes were bad
@@brandenmanuel2037 heath’s joker laughing in an alleyway looking at this crap.
I liked it when it came to the story until the end. The musical aspect could’ve been better to me. I liked the joker is me song and the were gonna build a mountain song, but other than those songs, eh. I personally give it a 6 because of the way it ended. If the ending was better it would’ve been higher.
I was waiting for you guys review, and I’m glad I’m not the only one. I actually enjoyed the movie spite everyone hating on it. I agree with you on you can see why people would not like it, especially because it’s a musical. And I’m not the biggest fan of those movies but I can enjoy them going in with an open mind and no bias. I actually don’t think the movie is as bad as everyone is saying or jumping in the wagon of it being bad. Everyone has their opinions and that’s the beauty of cinema. It can be interpreted in many ways. I think this movie will grow over time. Maybe I’m wrong and ir doesn’t But I enjoyed it. As you said there’s more that I liked than I didn’t like.
i think the ending would’ve worked soooo well if they used it in the first film.
First time seeing this channel. Happily subscribing! I just found it to be disappointing. Not terrible but not good enough considering how great the first one was. I thought the more over the top musical sequences were actually the best parts but not done well enough imo. I also didn't mind the story direction but I felt like the road there was a big misstep. I also agree about this version of Harley being very interesting. I just wish they did more with it.
I am all about musicals, like little shop of horror…. But this one was stale. It moved very slow.
Mad respect to you for standing on your opinion. I don't want to see this though to be honest.
As someone who works with HIPAA cases that go to trial. The patient’s record and the doctor themselves can be requested and subpoena’d to be presented to the judge to disclose HIPAA info. Especially if it involves a crime. It’s not that uncommon.
JOKER deeeeeeefinitely warranted a sequel. THIS JUST WAS NOT IT.
LFG !! I've been waiting for your review !!!!!!
What's more, no one wanted it to be done in relation to this sequel, but nothing could end up turning it into a joke in bad taste than what it was and meant in its first part. And she'd better stay alone.
The nerve they had to use Joker, Gotham City and Wayne family to lure ppl into watching. And yes, the first movie was ahh too
From what I understand Arthur regressed. Instead of the same triumphant Joker we saw in the first movie he's back to square one and for what? They totally scrapped the Eat The Rich mindset of Joker 1.
Thanks for sharing this movie review, y'all!!
Awful movie shits all over the first, joker didn't need a sequel.
Nah I actually liked it you have to take a new narrative and remember the movies are not telling a story about the dark crime lord it's about Arthur himself both movies are
HOW does it shit all over the first? It had exactly the same narrative as the first did with it being a character study.
@@luna-mo3ol you need to go to a university to do a character study dont put sense into a fictional character giving him a moral. Keep hands away from classical comic characters.
@@20tejas Lmao what?
Sometimes creators have an idea that plays out with multiple beginnings, middles and ends along the way, making sequels or serializations smooth. It seems like the ideas were only fully baked for the first movie, and this sequel needed more sauce and flambe before being served.
They had the perfect opportunity to follow society failing those with mental health issues with the justice system doing similar for the correctional industrial complex and did not take it.
The first movie was so good it didn't need a sequel to leave a bad taste in our mouth
Todd Philips said he didn’t want to come back and make a sequel. So when WB called and payed him crazy money he basically did a total dissection of the character and the audience. He basically threw it in our face that we’re wrong for glorifying someone like Arthur Fleck who’s clearly unstable, was pushed to a breaking point, and wants to see him kill. The more we glorify this behavior, the more it becomes inherited.
I expected psychological drama about Arthur Fleck, and not capeshit supervillain shit, and i'm not disappointed. But even if i focus on DCU, i really like the idea of Joker not being one single person, but more of an idea, it makes "him" more dangerous.
23:02 not to mention he then starts cutting his face up showing the scars that joker had with his mouth and smiling . He cuts his face just like heaths joker did
It's suppose to be Heath ledger at the end of the movie
@@quentinperkins6002 No not at all lol The movie takes place in the 80's and they already introduced adult Harvey Dent and kid Bruce Wayne which doesn't fit in Nolan Batman universe.
As an avid fan of DC Comics and Marvel I would feel gobsmacked and would have left once it became clear it’s a MUSICAL. wtf???
Imagine having over 70 years of Joker stories to tell, but somehow "musical" was the best one 🤨
It could have worked really well, if they perhaps took more of a Moulin Rouge route by having the songs say what the characters could not. It’s a bold choice. I think that the musical aspect felt too jarring for many.
@@kazetoameI think it was brilliant that they went about it this direction. Could the musical elements have been handled better? Absolutely. But because it was such a bold thing for them to do, I applaud it nonetheless.
The problem was joker set the bar high for rated R comic book film" not only that, it walked away with Oscar and smash the box office before covid hit" as an it was organic boxoffice number " before inflation , So sadly Joker 2 died by the hands of the bar it set 🤕
Been waiting for this review
Great movie imo, musicals came when his emotions switched(hallucinations), turning joker into a symbol & not a person was 🔥, Harley manipulated him 👍🏾& being a psycho psychiatrist 😂
I still watch scenes for the 1st Joker flick and Will always be fans of Lady Gaga & mr. Phoenix. That being said, I still haven't finished watching sequel and not in a hurry to get back to it. It was director's experimental Hail Mary that missed the mark. The story Arc quickly diluted and I lost a sense where the plot was going. I wanted to be engaged and hooked but there is clearly no comparison to the first one. I'm gonna watch the first one again to recover.... Peace
I liked the movie. I thought it was good. It definitely had issues and stuff I did not like. And it's definitely not as good as the first one. But overall it was good.
Joker 8.5/10 or B+
Joker 2 7.5/10 or B-
This movie Won't Be Remembered in 2 weeks tops most people will have moved on
Should spoil it so can save us some money going to watch it 😂 gonna wait until it comes on TV or streaming for free I think I will enjoy it that way
I don't think it's a horrible movie like many people think, it has some very bad things but in general it's a good movie, it has some very accurate reviews and others that don't make sense, Joaquin Phoenix's performance is impressive and he deserves to be nominated for the Oscars again. What I hated most about the movie is that the director treats you as if you were stupid, he reiterates things a lot to make sure we understand what's going on, as if it were very complex when it's not, like the guy who tells a joke to Arthur at the end of the movie. Did Phillips really think that we didn't expect the guy to do something to Arthur? LITERALLY THE CAMERA FOCUS ON HIM LIKE 3 TIMES AND HE ALWAYS HAS THE FACE OF A FUCKING VILLAIN
I hope Joe goes into The Last of Us Season 2 with this individualistic opinion mindset instead of letting online (and M-Drew's) hate taint his perspective.
Bro respectfully, I’d…I been following yall channel since like 2012 maybe earlier….i feel u did Way too much talking to give reason on why you’re okay with not saying this movie was awful, yes we’re all entitled but as ya mans said about you not following the crowd(I’ve never been a ride the wave person either) but at the 7:30 mark of u still covering up for this film after stating it may be a quick review…felt u coulda kept it a buck n said “I liked it but I understand if others don’t”..once again salute, it’s like watching yall reviews is like talking amongst brothers but ehhhh this movie I walked out n was told I missed nothing
They raped and killed the joker just to say ha joke's on you he's not really the joker some last of us 2 bullshit
Lot of disappointing sequels lately
This movie didn't need to exist and I stand by that. It felt like Todd Phillips wanted to make a response to the first movie and purposely step on the toes of the people that liked the first one. Although I feel like that's the case, there are things about the movie that are interesting ideas that could've worked. They just weren't that well executed in my opinion. I don't hate the movie as much as some people, but I can't say I like it that much either.
No lie, i didn't like the musical, but it grew on me it was an okay movie for me 😊
Perfect review. Too many people want to make their opinion on something the same exact opinion of their favorite RUclipsrs or streamers or friends. Nobody wants to make opinions for themselves anymore. Give things a chance and don’t be afraid to be different.
I was also thinking the guy that killed Arthur at the end turns into the joker we know. Cause you can see and hear him carving a smile to his face after using Arthur’s blood to make the red smile on his face.
My opinion is pretty much the same as yours, I liked it more than I disliked it, and as a whole I liked it, loved the first one though. When it comes to the guy that stabbed him, I interpreted it as just a cult follower who was disappointed in him and wanted to emulate him, not necessarily making him the next joker. Unless Todd Phillips says we'll never really know. My last thought is that for the majority of people that didn't like it I'll just say what Arthur said once or twice "you wouldn't get it".
Be it positive or negative, if your opinion happens to fall into the majority that doesn't mean you're following the crowd. I didn't care for the first one and I'm not supporting this one but I will see it one day to have my own opinion.
You can actually plead guilty, innocent or insanity. Pleading insanity means you didn’t fully grasp what you were doing.
Absolute nosedive of a sequel that seriously wasn't needed...the 1st ended perfectly
As much as i don't like this sequel, i understand why it was made. there was NO WAY this "Joker" was EVER going to meet or share the same universe with Batman. Had joker not met little Bruce in part one it would have probably opened the door to more possibilities. Its like when Rocky Balboa went to Russia to fight Drago and he left his then 6 year old son at home, then 3 months later he comes home to find his son is now 12 and on the honor roll...HOW!!??
I think m dog was right i think the guy at the end was the manifestation of the actual joker and thats why arthur went out like he did
how we get this review but not transformers one😭
The movie was literally a whole Joke.
If this sequel included a Batman, yes this needed to be a sequel but THIS movie didn't need to happen
We are living in denial if we believe that Joaquin Phoenix, the artsy-artist who was glorified 5 years ago for his Batmanless performance, was ever going to co-star with yet another actor taking on the Bat mantle. Now that this movie's released, it makes sense why his only superhero sequel (something that would otherwise never be on his resume) was framed this way, and I don't even watch Phoenix's movies. Perhaps another Batman performance was what you wanted, but we don't need to say that's what was needed. Those are two different conversations
Would rather use money to see Transformers One than this…While I agree that some movies ya may not like much when first viewing it and it growing on ya(EXAMPLE: I didn’t like Age of Ultron much at all, Iron Man 2 also took time to be appreciated..Iron Man 3 using a fake Mandarin when the trailer teased the rings…I ended up liking the film later)…THIS movie I certainly don’t expect that turn around..just like I’ve never rewatched BvS nor Snyderverse Suicide Squad since first viewing
I liked it a lot more than expected after the negative reviews. I'd like a sequal (but a non-musical one).
The movie was incredible I loved it I didn’t like parts and half of it I wasn’t feeling it the bad parts I was like this is painfully bad and the parts that worked I was like better then the first something massive no one is talking about is the guy that kills Arthur we hear him getting killed by the guards before that scene happens we hear the guards saying your killing him stop don’t do it we hear him dying he dies they say he is gone then that ending scene happens there is something with that
I haven't seen it not going to see it as I've always felt it didn't need a sequel why can't movie studios do One Shot films like in the comic industry
At the end of the movie I literally sighed for a really long time…
This movie was garbage but I’m willing to watch it again and give it another chance when it comes out on streaming platforms
I think there's so much overreaction to this movie. It wasn't garbage but i can understand why people were disappointed with the direction they took with the film.
Joker 1 was very overrated, Arthur is not true to the Joker character. The joker shouldn’t have a backstory imo. With that being said, Joker 1 was not a bad movie. Glad to see a different option about #2 tho
So many layers to this movie, i didnt personally like it that much but i cant deny todd popped off with making a polarizing part 2
He trolled the audience well it’s too bad trolling the audience is inherently wrong and bad.
I enjoyed the performance parts more
I don't understand the hate other than the musical aspect however I enjoyed this movie. Saw it twice and left the second viewing just a couple of hours ago and this time wanted to really pay closer attention to the lyrics. Once I did it instantly went from a 8/10 premiere night I went to into a 9/10. I don't want to say forced hate but some people really outta stop going by word of mouth and just see things for themselves. It's why I never ever listen to reviews and I'm glad I did not. Enjoyed myself ☺️