Star Trek: Generations Is Good, Actually | Renegade Cut
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- The first Star Trek The Next Generation movie, Star Trek: Generations, is pretty good. You don't have to feel that way, and the "actually" in the title is a little facetious, but I bet some commenters will ignore this. Let's find out! Captain Picard wants kids, and that's OK. Support Renegade Cut on Patreon: / renegadecut
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Letterboxd: letterboxd.com...
Fun fact: Malcom McDowell is the real-life uncle to Alexander Siddig, who plays Dr. Bashir on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
That is a fun fact. 😊
The guy who played the Vulcan antagonist in ST: the final frontier, was the uncle of the wachawski sisters who created the matrix franchise.
I didn't know that until just now!
Data finally understanding the joke he heard in the pilot was a nice touch.
Brendan Mohan nice shirt dude
@@DLZ2000 what the one about Pinocchio?
Would have been better if it was when Geordi actually told a joke on the bridge in Conspiracy.
I've seen McDowell unexpectedly appeared on stage doing the whole "Time is a predator" speech at a convention, just for fun, while Stuart and Shatner were talking at a Q&A. It was awesome, the guy can really put emotion and gravitas into anything!
link! is it on youtube?
Hi, everyone. Two things.
First, trying to argue against a point I did *not* make to strawman the argument will not work in my comments section, and I have no tolerance for it. Watch the whole video. I don't speak ambiguously.
Second, my comments section is not a place to stir up trouble. This channel is moderated, which means nothing is visible until it is approved in the RUclips dashboard by the moderator. Attempting to start trouble with another RUclips channel won't be seen and will cause you to be banned. If I didn't mention anyone specific in the video, take your cue from me. This isn't a drama channel. Thanks.
That’s one reason I enjoy your comment section over most others, especially those attached to certain unnamed “Fan Channels.”
Renegade Cut this episode and Dans(folding human) episode on “Annihilation and metaphor” should be an introductory course on film theory.
That is it.
Watching this video has got me curious - what did you think of Tasha Yar's death in the show?
Choosing May the Fourth to launch a Star Trek video?
How deliciously Romulan.
🤣 lmfaoooooo
23:05 Out of context Ro Laren shooting randomly in the air while Riker plays the trombone is the best thing I've seen today.
Don't worry guys, the Kurlan Naskios is fine, it's in Picard's Starfleet archive in the new show.
OMG PLOTHOLE!
I re-watched this movie a couple of years back after going through the entirety of Next Gen. I remember liking it a lot, partly because I don't usually have a brain that picks up on things like narrative themes, but I'd been watching a lot of cultural analysis stuff on youtube, Renegade among them.
So this is the first movie I can remember seeing and thinking, "Oh I never noticed before how thematically cohesive this story is, and now I do."
My primary issue with this film is that I was five years old when I saw it and it killed my favorite TV character AND blew up my favorite TV ship in the span of about 10 minutes. Crushed my tiny soul.
I'm at my friends' house, my friend takes a book out from the living room shelf. "Plothole!" I yell, for last time I saw said book it was in the bedroom shelf. Then my friend beats me unconcious with said book
Book ex machina!
@@AirborneSpitfire This book is not my girlfriend in this scene. *ding.*
Pff that book was SO contrived I mean everyone knows you taking a book out off a shelf is NOT at all what you would have done, pff worst episode ever pff
Pfft, books make no sense at all
You have to do prior research by learning "The alphabet" and "Sentence structure"
Who's got time to learn the lore? Just inject the dopamine straight into my brain!
Here's to hoping that Books 2 fixes the mistake of its predecessor
@@JeevesAnthrozaurUS seriously, what is going on here? ^^
"I always believed that I didn't need children to complete my life. Now, I couldn't imagine life without them." -- Jean-Luc Picard (The Inner Light)
Anyone complaining about Picard wanting children needs to turn in their Trekkie card. Picard's mind, for all intents and purposes, spent decades believing he was a husband and father. He seemed particularly close with his daughter, Meribor, to whom he passed on his passion for science as she joined him collecting samples in the hills around their community.
It’s kind of weird because one of my big problems with this movie is how enamored it is with canon. So so much of it is based around stuff from the series coming back. The emotion chip, Picard’s family, the Duras sisters, freaking Kirk! The whole movie just feels like it needs a lot of tightening up to me.
Sir Patrick Steward's performance during his scene about the death of his family gets me every time. To this day, I always cry along with Picard. Sure, my reaction depends on the emotional baggage of knowing and loving the "Family" episode, but it's also a testament to the writers being able to leverage that for those who have the context. It's one of my favourite parts of the film.
Hot take: I think this is one of the most, if not the most, visually appealing Trek films (of the original 10 flicks). I love the imagery and color palates in Generations. I know a lot of the darker lighting was used just to cover up the TV-friendly/Non-feature-film-friendly ENT-D sets, but it works for me.
"Change, grow and even regress" Especially that last bit. So often I've heard complaints like 'but that person learned his lesson' as if a single realisation will always stick and completely negate a significant behavioural habit.
Folks forget how his relationship with Wesley changed through the series, or how he saw Data as more of a son throughout the movies.
@@jasons5916 Yes you can. It would be a tragedy.
Old comment but this is so true - I feel like that mindset comes from a lack of real life experience. Just because you have the answers, does not mean you are immediately going to implement them
I will never be ashamed of admitting my love for this movie. As a fan of TNG and the TOS movies, it was a dream come true (Nexus vibes, I guess), tied together with the lynchpin of Malcolm McDowell, and to a lesser degree, Whoopi Goldberg, both incredible character actors. Seeing each of the captains finding their paradise and then making the call to abandon it for the greater good was beautiful and heartbreaking. As you say, the most sentimental of the Star Trek movies, easily. But I was a young teenager when I saw it, and that suited me just fine.
The relic in Picard’s room-easily explained. In the series, he said, “This should be in a museum.” I think he donated it, but made detailed scans first and replicated a copy. The original is kept in a safe place, while digital info about it is kept in Picard’s virtual library. The “relic” on screen in Generations is a copy from those scans, and thus isn’t that valuable or rare. Picard wouldn’t keep an original on a ship that has all kinds of dangerous and weird things happening to it on a weekly basis.
They keep children on that same ship...
The biggest problem with Generations is that the fact that it was billed as a grand crossover between eras, but the crossover itself was put on the back burner in relation to the story. I think if it was solely a story about TNG it would be a bit more appreciated, or if they had made effort to integrate Kirk's role into being a bit more important to the story than it was. Felt kinda like an afterthought.
Picard when we first met him, at age 47, has different thoughts on Children than Picard at age 57, after the rest of his family has died? After he's been through his Borg experience? After he's seen others around him, marry, have kids, die? How could his attitude possibly have changed?!? Character growth?!?!
(And yeah, that's without even getting into him having already lived an entire lifetime with a wife and kids in a virtual memory...)
As someone who's liked Generations for years I'm glad to see this
Me too.
Given that the odd numbered Star Trek movies are usually rather disappointing, it was actually one of the best odd numbered movies.
I guess upsetting Star Trek fans is one way to celebrate Star Wars day. (and upsetting Star Wars fans is DEFINITELY a good way to celebrate Star Wars day!)
Seriously though, good episode, lots of good food for thought. Have a good day, and May the Fourth be with you.
I was a big fan of The Last Jedi, and never really watched any Star Trek content, so I mostly heard this message in relation to Star Wars. The biggest problem there is that Disney actually listened to the complaints of these canon keepers. The Rise of Skywalker was such a pedantic circle jerk of inward references with no purpose or theme to hold on to that it soured my feelings on the entire franchise and it's exactly what these people told Disney they wanted.
Never been a big fan of the new franchise, but i must admit that the rise of skywalker shines by it's supernova-sized failure among the three. everything in it was 2000 % wrong.
The rise of sky walker is 50% the fault of *certain* fans, and 50% of creators working to placate the people that already hated them.
Breaking cannon was the last thing i would mention when describing why the new trilogy is bad. never understood peoples religious like adherence to it when there is so, so, so much else wrong with those movies you could focus on.
There's a Simpson's Comic where the nitpicking nerd characters get an unlimited budget to make a realistic sci-fi movie free of plot holes and inaccuracies. It winds up being the worst movie ever made because it's so boring.
Dogma 95 in space? I'd watch it.
Nice to see someone else remember that story. The Simpsons comics easily rival the show at times
whats the name of the issue?
People talk about death making us human as if we're the only ones in the whole universe that die.
I feel like “human” in such a context is just shorthand for our experience as self-aware, emotionally complex, social agents occupying a tiny sliver of space and time in a universe vastly larger than us. Of course in the Star Trek universe there are other beings like that, and even on Earth in real life there are other similar beings, but I still think it’s an acceptable shorthand. The “humanity” of existential philosophy can refer to all sorts of human-like beings like aliens or apes or advanced robots. It doesn’t need to refer just to beings with Homo sapiens DNA.
The true statement "death is part of human experience" has literally nothing to do with the false statement "humans are the only things that experience death." What are you trying to say?
As far as we know we are the only creatures aware of the fact that we will die. Death itself is not as difficult a concept to grapple with as knowing that it will happen to you and the people you love.
gp There's other species that have rituals of sorts when a member of their community dies. I'm sure at least some other species must be well aware of both the concept and their own mortality.
Because "human" is just a name given to one form. Though the meaning of life is not that it ends, death helps things be alive at one point, and the chance to be alive at one point is a privilege, even if it's just for one good experience.
Renegade Cut has zero patience for nerd minutiae and I'm here for it.
My mother was the trekie in the house and bought this movie for my sister and I to watch. This was a big deal as VHS was at its most expensive and money was tight. We all enjoyed it except she did take issue with Kirk's role/death as he was her favorite character from the OG series. But as a darn'd youth, I never understood the argument that he "deserved a better funeral". The man had been "dead" to everyone who might have cared about him for over 70 years. I'm sure they did a starfleet send off and put up a memorial like they would any missing in action, presumed dead officer. What good would it do for Capt. Picard to call them up and say 'hey you know Jame T Kirk? Turns out he wasn't dead! I mean he's dead now and so is probably anyone who personally knew him, but we should probably jet him out into space in a pod or something.'
If you want to watch people wait for a rocket to arrive somewhere, watch The Expanse, a show written around that.
But really watch the expanse, it uses the 'boring' parts of space travel to make the story better.
Ugh so good. The books are some of the best sci-fi written...ever?
Expanse does compress certain things to make the pacing better though, a lot of people get upset about the slingshot scene but IMO it does what it needs to do, which is depict the gist of the maneuver itself and show us that Alex is a great pilot. I certainly wouldn't have liked the realistic version of it which would probably have been episodes long...
In the scene where they shoot the Martian missile platforms with their railguns, I remember thinking how it was unusually unrealistic for the Expanse, because the railgun rounds would have taken 30-120 minutes to hit their targets. And then I remembered that the "realistic" version of that scene would have been bad television.
I really enjoyed Generations, except for the part with Kirk. Not because I'm a canon junkie, but because I felt the inclusion of Kirk was shoehorned in for the sake of fanservice and his sudden death narratively unsatisfying. It felt like a corporate mandate.
However, I don't think all fanservice is a bad thing. Depending on the tone, it can be the entire point of a very fun movie (see Deadpool), create a narrative flowthrough in a series that only deepens the lore that fans find fascinating (Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan for example) or just be the source of fun little Easter eggs that fans catch but don't affect the narrative or story.
That is were Generations fell down, IMHO. You could have removed the scenes with Kirk from the film and had basically no difference in the narrative, emotionally or plot wise. I think it was Linkara who said that the only reason to kill a character is when they have no further stories to tell. Leaving Kirk to have been presumably retired on Earth or somewhere, living out his remaining days, or even have a note that he had been killed in action taking on the Borg after his retirement would have been a much more satisfying conclusion for the character's life and career than a frankly pointless death after what is basically an extended cameo.
That said, I agree with you that it was overall a good movie, well made, and the jump of production design from TV to feature film was well done, the characters well acted and the story well paced. Certainly not the worst of the Star Trek movies, even judging through the lens of their own franchise.
The franchise needed to pass the torch for commercial reasons. A plaque about Kirk having died off screen wouldn’t have served. And yes, it wasn’t done very well, but it still needed to be done.
I feel like adding Kirk was a final reconciliation with the fact that Star Trek the Next Generation is called the Next Generation. Which implies that the previous generation is very important. And of course that they were still making Kirk movies during the TNG production. I feel like they wanted to tie it all up
I always have difficulty with reviews like this that argue so aggressively against nitpicks and cannon minutiae when defending movies because I'm always thinking "who really cares about this stuff?" It's hard for me to remember that there is an entire subsection of the internet that spends their time screaming about Kurlan naiskos. I've seen all of Star Trek, literally every episode and every movie, all of it. I don't think Generations is a good movie and when I was showing my wife "the good" Star Trek movies we only got about half-way through it before she asked to turn it off, but it has zero to do with "the cannon." For me it has to do with the over the top performance by Brent Spiner, the awkward pacing of it, and the handwavy explanation of how the Nexus let them travel back in time and leave it through horses? Data was the part that my wife couldn't handle, it was just too over the top. That said, our objections were entirely subjective. It wasn't a great movie, it wasn't a movie I'd show anyone who didn't desperately love Star Trek to begin with, but it was fine.
I also feel that Kirk's death and burying Kirk on the planet make total sense and are respectful to his character. Way more than Picard, Kirk was an away mission guy he was always the one going down to the planet on the mission. Having him die in one last mission on a planet to save Millions and burying him there make total sense for his character.
Sorry but I saw this movie for the first time a few months ago and it wasn't very good. I agree Trekkies can be dummies about canon and all that, but this movie just wasn't all that good. Kirk's involvement in this movie is incredibly forced and not properly motivated. Why does Picard need Kirk just to help him punch a guy in the face? Data's B-plot with the emotion chip was interesting but didn't live up to its potential. I thought First Contact was a way better TNG movie.
Art Vandelay Agreed. Generations may not be the worst ST movie out there (and there's a lot bad ones), but I think it's greatest sin is that it's dull.
You say you watched the movie, then turn around and ask why Picard needed Kirk. If Picard didn't need Kirk, he wouldn't have met Kirk.
Of course it wasn’t good. It was a TNG episode that cameos Kirk to pass the torch. They had to spend half the film shoe horning in the old captain just to get to the point where they could start writing the movie.
@@lray801 The only reason he met with Kirk is because Guinan inexplicably showed up (don't feed me any of that echo bs, I know how the movie hand-waves it away and it still makes no sense) and told him to go meet with Kirk. Or rather, sent him to Kirk? Or something? They don't bother explaining how he winds up there, either, and it's not just because he needs Kirk specifically. He even asked Guinan's echo for help but she couldn't because she wasn't actually in The Nexus. But the biggest issue of all is that he could've gone back at any point in time, anywhere, literally according to Guinan. Why go back that far? Why not go back to when they picked up Soran originally and keep him under tight security? Or why not go back to Earth and save his family from the fire, or go back to the Enterprise and set a course for Earth before that happens? There's no reason he needed Kirk's help to stop Soran in the first place. He could have gone back to a good amount of time before that happened and stopped him from even meeting with the Duras sisters or getting to the planet.
You not liking a movie =/= it being bad
last time I was this early; there was no distinction between the Romulans and Vulcans
It's been YEARS since I've watched Generations, but how is it so hard to understand that a man who has suddenly become the last male in his family line may all of a sudden decide he wants to have children, even if he had expressed differently in the past? Not only is he dealing with the loss of his family and may be seeking a way to replace them in some way to fill the void of their loss, but he's also having to deal with the existential dread of the ending of a whole family line! If he dies without children, his line of the Picards is gone forever. Before he could have felt secure that the name would live on through his nephew, but now the buck stops with him unless he decides to change that. What a stupid argument for someone to have about Picards motivations. SMH.
I thought the artifact complaints you mention were parody. Surely, that couldn't be a real complaint.
Googled it, to be sure. Well. Wow.
Great video.
@@tomgl6684 ...he literally explains the narrative purpose of the prop in the scene, within the video you're commenting on. The point of the object being valuable... is the point.
@@LisaBeergutHolst I have to admit I'm curious what they said, since they seem to have deleted their comment out of embarrassment.
Overall, I partially agree here. I have not enjoyed much of the new Trek shows because they seem, at least to me, to really be other properties that have had a coat of Star Trek paint slapped on top. Like I remember not being a huge fan of DS9 back in the day, though I have come to appreciate it much more as I've gotten older, but it never felt like a different show pretending to be Star Trek. The federation still seemed to act like the federation. Klingons had changed over time but they were still Klingons. So I think cannon matters to some extent but I have to agree with your criticism of people obsessing over tiny minutia.
DS9, Voyager and Next Gen aren't even the same feel as TOS. Enterprise again is completely different. The new films are again completely different. "Canon" of any fiction that spans decades is at best a luxury. Your argument is that you want to "feel" like it's the same. What a sad, narrow window to aim for.
@@skyerune It's interesting you think that because I thought TOS >> TNG worked quite well, the original series having the "frontier" feel, ships were rarer, Captains had to make calls as they saw without communication, less bureaucracy but less safeguards, and over time technology improved, more ships, and you get the TNG crew, a totally different style but it follows the "timeline" quite well. Everything is more "regulated" and checked up on, because it can be. In Voyager they had that flashback to Sulu where they were shocked he'd falsify his log, because you just don't get away with that kind of thing anymore.
After he wrecked his Dad’s Ferrari he still gets to Captain the Enterprise B
Maiden voyage of the Enterprise B: wrecks it
I feel personally attacked by this video. But I deserved it and have a much better understanding of why I reacted certain ways to certain Star Trek developments. So thank you for the ideological uppercut.
most fans come into the film keep the cannon in the back of their minds while watching because its a star trek film, its meant to be a continuation of the stories previously told. thats why the fans are there. if the makers dont want to make a continueation of the previous stories, they should make a different story entirely
Great ,now Imagine the artefact scene with riker finding his trombone and as they are beamed up he makes one long trumpet noise.XD
Rip Picard’s fish
Hahahahaaaaaa....definitely a forgotten casualty. Spot definitely got a more emotional moment in the picture.
“It’s only matters if you decide it’s important and people don’t have to decide that with you.” Best thing I have heard all week.
Quite possibly the hottest take in the history of the channel!
"No critic is an objective reviewer."
Fucking exactly. I wish people would get this fucking point.
"We didn't have to watch him walk down the corridors, go into the turbolift, say bridge, and then see him walk out of the turbolift in order for us to understand how he got there."
Nah, dude, I've been wondering about that for 25 years.
Regarding the artefact Picard finds in the wreckage, I honestly don't even remember noticing what it was, but now that I know I think it's a nice touch, a nice little "Hey, remember this thing? Look! It survived! Isn't that good?"
I find it so weird that people focused on it a negative way.
Also, yes, I agree. It is good.
Same here! I'm a huge Star Trek fan. I'm one of those guys who can (often) tell you the episode title, season, and minutiae even more obscure than that (sometimes). I saw this film in the theaters at least 5 times when it opened and this is the FIRST time I even noticed the artifact. A nice touch, in retrospect? Absolutely! But, like Renegade Cut correctly points out, the family album is MORE important to the film's theme (as is Data finding Spot, I would argue).
@@Nuvizzle That's fair. I still think it's a nice touch to include it, but you're 100% right that the scene would have been way more effective if it was something established in the film itself.
Generations is a lovely film.
I think a larger point worth making is that TV shows translate poorly to movies. Character arcs are fine and good, but the velocity of character change is an order of magnitude faster in movies. It's pretty jarring to see what would normally be years of character development compressed into 15 minutes.
10/10 for the video and for posting this on so-called Star Wars day.
CSGraves Hell yea- wait, what?
I liked the film well enough, but it wasn't what I'd hoped it would be. I wanted a wholly Next Gen film. Kirk and his crew had sailed off into a well-earned sunset at the end of Undiscovered Country. There was also no need to put Picard and Kirk together, because in a universe as big as Star Trek's, *things don't need to revolve around BOTH Picard and Kirk.* The story could have been tighter, could have worked just as well or better, without Kirk in it, mainly by giving the other Next Gen characters more lines, more screen time, more things to do. But I got what I got when I bought my ticket. Still, it was good to see Captain Kirk work with Captain Picard.
Are you saying that fanboys have a complete lack of empathy that derivates of their outstanding immaturity... call me surprised!!!
I think you meant "...that derives from...". Also "outstanding" is not really the adjective one would use in this case, maybe "extraordinary". Pff, I really hope someone got fired for these blunders
I think there needs to be a distinction between having some legitimate criticisms about Generations and thinking it's a "bad movie". I don't need canon to note that the uniforms don't match, or that, through the lens of the science fiction genre, the star instantly going dark after the missile launch might violates viewers' expectations because of its lack of scientific accuracy. These things don't necessarily "ruin" the movie, but if someone cites these reasons when asked why they didn't like Generations, they're not wrong for doing so. Generations doesn't have to be perfect to be good, and not everyone has to like it.
A lot of people also forget that in TOS, women were banned from being captains...obviously THAT was retconned in later series, but I don't see many complaining about it, even in the series that takes place before TOS having female captains.
It may not have been a Star Wars themed video you uploaded on this May the 4th, but you still mentioned it a fair bit, so it counts! Happy Space wizard day.
I don't like this film because the last fight scene comes off like a Wily Coyote scene with a guy trying to shoot a rocket into the sun so he can orgasm forever.
... in contrast I love Star Trek 5's Row Row Row your boat heckling of Spock :v
I think it fits Kirk very well to be buried there: somewhere out at the Frontier (Hello, Star TREK ...), after giving his best do defeat some crazy evil.
His corpse would have been eaten by space coyotes after 5 minutes, but it fits.
And it's a great scene.
There is NOTHING keeping Starfleet or Kirk’s next of kin from retrieving his corpse to bury him elsewhere. Certainly this information will be in Picard’s report. Also, it takes time to bury someone...even above ground. So, Picard was probably stranded for many hours or even a few days with no idea when he might be rescued.
Just like the Food Replicator lady told me when I put in my vanilla card
"Sometimes there are good surprises Billy and sometimes there are bad ones This was a bad surprise." - replicator lady
'Replicator lady' was nurse Chapel. And BTW, it wasn't a replicator, it was a food synthesizer...🤓
Begs the question: was there an incentive to sell the Star Wars franchise to Disney because the writers were so sick of researching "cannon" and the previous works -- "We're fiction writers, damn it, not historians!" to appease the fans -- besides the money of course --?
Yes but the opposite is just as bad, where a writer
I think that the issue is that the expanded universe actually had some very, very good ideas for giving the entire setting a much more expensive phylosophical grounding. Ok, maybe not that elaborate, but something you could be working on to make a truly different story that also resonated with people.
I don't think it was about continuity. No story in the expanded universe respect any other story either. But there are stories that seriously asked themselves "What can the Force stand for? What part of the human condition can it represent?" and made stories that were all the better because of it.
Ironically enough, the new trilogy is great if you see it as horror, then it becomes quite a literal adaptation of "Ghost of My Life" by Mark Fisher: a world like ours, where all meaning is dead, and has been replaced by the events of the past. The only thing left to do is to repeat what has already happened over and over again, even if all original context no longer exist. In the new movies, the presence of the past is literally haunting the present, and taking it over. It's textbook hauntology!
I mean, ok, Star Wars has alway been hauntological, with all its reference to 50s pop culture. But it was hauntological to the viewers, not to the character. The new movies are hauntological to the character themselves. They are diegetically hauntological! And the worst thing is that it seems like the writer think is a good thing!
@@illerac84 Had to have done.
@@Skullkan6 ?
@@leonardorossi998 It's beautiful isn't it.
I also love the bridge refit and wish it had been done this way earlier at the beginning of season 7.
Um excuse me, I will not tolerate disrespect of the Curlan Nescafé.
In all seriousness, good analysis! While I still dislike the film, I agree with you that it has kernels of a decent film, and that dedication to canonical minutia can be insufferable.
This is a great breakdown. So many people are focused on the wrong things that the point of the movie is lost on them. They can't see the universe for the stars.
How about that footage of someone reading from an iPad and typing one handed on a typewriter at 8:44. Relatable.
Thats how I do all my writing lol
@13:00
Luke: *“ThE sAcReD jEdI tExTs!”*
Yoda: “Bupkis! I found it in a Crackerjack box!” 😂😂😂
Whenever I was running a Vampire: the Masquerade or any RPG that has a general established canon, I would always make clear to my players one thing. "Canon is that thing we use to shoot itself out of." Granted, the sentence makes no logical sense, but the sentiment always got across.
Your comment makes me think of all the discussion about the canon continuity in the last edition of Vampire. I would never think this video would apply so much about tabletop rpg to be honest.
My table always avoids the issue by either playing in a different era from canon events or just saying it’s an alternate universe.
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure has an audience that's really pretty good at loosening that judgement and dominance. Death is pretty common throughout but the ways it's presented are almost exclusively emotional, there is no solid "What happens when you die" and they are often loudly different.
People may joke about things but it seems like most people are able to accept the way it's written, as it relates to the circumstance of whatever it may connect to at the moment.
'araki forgot' is one of the reasons, i think, jojos is so good, he isnt trapped by past mistakes in his work
I think it's the 2nd best TNG film. There are lots of things I like about it, but it's not a good film. The story is silly. Kirk and Picard meet up to cook eggs and then punch an old man in the face. And if the nexus can take you to any time and place, why do they go back 5 minutes before Soran launches the rocket? And why does he even need Kirk? And so much important stuff happens off screen so that it's hard to care about, especially if you're not a fan of the show.
Kirk's girlfriend? She's off screen.
Picard's brother and nephew whom we only saw in 1 episode? They die off screen.
The planet of hundreds of millions of people that are threatened by Soran? We never see them at all.
I love the TNG stuff in this movie. The intro on the holodeck is fun. I like Data's emotion chip B story. The enterprise sets look great in the movie lighting. The battle with the Klingons is well shot and edited, even though it's essentially a rehash of the one from the previous movie and even reuses the explosion footage. And the destruction of the Enterprise D is great too. It's a shame the film was rushed so badly because the script needed to go through another couple of drafts.
I kinda like the fact that you get a glimpse of Kirk just being some guy at his (seemingly) awesome house. But yes, a lot of important stuff is off screen and is disappointing.
Jesus: *returns
Fans: Not my Jesus!
I believe this is exactly how it would go xD
Thank you. I'm a life long trek fan, but I often can't stand interacting with the community because of these issues. People complain about things that if the opposite would be done, often would make for horrible tv/movies. Such as make designs copy TOS.
Watched it today for the first time in years. I really liked it a lot. It's a fitting story off the heels of All Good Things.
I love Generations, the sentimentalism and the music. The themes of loss but the promise of hope and rebirth. I still listen to the soundtrack often to this day.
I've learned to take this approach towards canon: if something doesn't seem right, or someone acts different from what I expected, what does that mean? What has happened yo change things? This is much more interesting to me than going "but that's not how it was!"
I agree with this. Like, I really hate how much people hated the new Star Wars movies. I think they were fine. It made me look at some characters in different ways.
This is a very well thought out and excellent exposition. I just watched this film again a couple of weeks ago after many, many years, and I completely agree with your analysis. I definitely appreciated it more this time! I think my big beef is that Kirk's last words were "it was fun". I wish the writers had come up with something better! And that they never did anything with Guinan!! Such an enigmatic, seemingly immortal character, and we never learned anything about her race or her father or what she was up to on Earth in the time of Mark Twain? How did she end up tending bar on the Enterprise? I'd love a movie about Guinan's story. (Maybe she's a Timelord?)
People change, Picard's exposure to children over the years has slowly changes his heart in that regard, in truth all those experiences prior to generations has softend him to the idea, and the tragedy of his brother's family was the final straw on that.
I am so glad you made the TLJ point. As someone who does love SW continuity and gets enjoyment from things thematically tying to the rest of the franchise as well as literal ties; I loved the film. I hate it when people fight back against the toxic fanboys by saying "it doesn't work with canon and the OT cause that doesn't matter'. Yes of course that does not matter as to whether or not it is a good movie, but we shouldn't give ground to fanboys and pretend like they own the concept of canon and larger themes. TLJ doesn;t have to work with the OT to be a good film, but not only does it work with the OT, the way it does so is so much of WHY it is so fucking good.
Luke being "out of character" is not out of character but rather his arc in and of itself, and the expectation and the uncomfortable feeling from Luke acting that way is the point. You are supposed to be shocked and maybe even disgusted when he throws the lightsaber, it IS out of character from when we last saw him and from who he really is as his interaction with Leia shows. The discomfort is the fucking point and the fact that people don't get that is aggravating. People change, people give in to their worst traits, and they have to choose to be who they are. Luke was not the cheery good person in the OT because it was inherent to him, he was that way cause he CHOSE to be that way. And he has to choose to be that person again, just as Rey has to choose to not be "no one" just cause her parents are not special, or Poe to be responsible, or Finn to stay and live.
The larger franchise makes TlJ great, and the film's reaction shows just how fucking stupid this coopting of "canon" is. It doesn't have to be minutia, or petty; but people have let franchises become beholden to their own headcanon and preference over actual content and themes. None of the cool continuity minutia I love matters to me if the heart is missing, and i think the toxic fanboys miss that
Great video, made me cry, this was my childhood, I was 14 when I saw this in theaters with my mom who's gone now. The way you analyze films is how I do too. I'm a massive Trek nerd but setting down that object never bothered me. I was sooo thrilled they actually used a prop from one of my fav episodes. It coulda just been an empty Romulan ale bottle but the props department took the care to include a known prop!
This vid is basically how I feel about "The Last Jedi"
Star Wars, Episode VIII: The Last Jedi...is good actually
@@MesaAufenhand TLJ didn't have any "mystery boxes." TFA did, which TLJ addressed in various ways, so the onus was on TROS to have new ideas of where the story was going to go.
@@cartooncritic7045 and JJ Abrahms said "no"
The vast majority of canon complaints are of the variety that can be solved easily without any impact to the creative intent of the production team. It just takes 5 minutes of effort and one or more persons actually being fluent in the material. It is directly equivalent to a piece of media having unfortunate implications or some sort of cultural etc. insensitivity caused by the blinders or implicit biases that media's own creative team.
Avoidable errors in canon represent the creative team not caring about or respecting the fan community. At some point in the pipeline, someone didn't care to take the time to learn the material, hire someone who knows the material or listen to their advice. Canon errors are the brown M&Ms in the back stage area of the concert venue. It might not really matter that they are there, but it indicates that the production team didn't read the contract closely.
The Original Series would do things like ensure the accuracy of turbolift movement. It didn't matter, but they did it because they cared. The fan community first and foremost wants to know that the production team cares and aren't just a bunch of corporate hacks on hand to provide return on the company's investment at the expense of the fan community's investment.
You do realize that every single piece of production has errors. Even the Original Series that you are holding on a pedestal is filled with continuity errors. Canon errors is not a sign of whether the production cares about the project or not respecting the fans. Film productions and TV productions are difficult things to wrangle, even the best of them will have errors due to simple production reality. Equating an error to “the creatives don’t respect me as a fan” is an utter joke. Literally no one is trying to attack you because of canon errors, they are literally spending hours to give you entertainment.
i just wanted to comment about that part about the photo album not being in the room it was last seen in. this annoys the hell out of me, that some audience members need things like showing Obi Wan and Yoda going off to their new home planets (tattooine and degobah) for decades, because thats where we'll find them the next time they are seen.
Maybe Picard didn't contact Starfleet and arrange a funeral is because it had been 78 years since he was presumed dead. Imagine the confusion it could cause to an organisation like Starfleet upon finding out one of there greatest heroes had actually been in a heaven dimension for nearly a century and they now had to redo his funeral. Not to mention his next of kin had probably died making his now distant family far less inclined to want to mourn a man they already though dead.
Unpopular opinion: Star Trek Generations is by far the best TNG movie, and the only one that feels faithful to its source material.
I'd still put First Contact above it for the simple fact it's just a more fun movie experience but besides that I get what you're saying.
I agree completely
This will always be one of my favorite Star Trek movies. I’ve never cared what people say to that reality. I also like Nemesis quite a bit. Like what you like. There is no rule. Gene wanted us to get along.
One of my favourite films. The whole theme on 'Time' is fantastic. I referred to this film in my thesis on time. Soundtrack is also top class.
O'Brien: "Why do all these planets look like they're made of cardboard and sack cloth?"
Worf: "We do not talk about it with Outsiders"
As someone who follows your channel and literally just watched Generations for the first time since it was in theaters this past week this was a truly coincident gift. My rewatch matched my memories, which is that it was a good film. Your video helped me frame why. I was never drawn to Trek by the minutiae and Treknobabble. I was raised poor by my grandparents, and my grandmother got me into Trek because of the morality lessons and my grandfather saw a lens to talk about his Navy career. We all really had little in common, but we could always gather around Star Trek and have a good time. Those lessons from both of them is what led me to the Coast Guard Academy, where I studied Marine Biology and served aboard 5 ships (and counting hopefully), and two commands. I owe a lot of that success to sitting around the living room with my grandparents. Generations was the first film I ever managed to get my grandmother to see in a theater in my lifetime, and the last before she died. I still only had my learners permit when I drove to the theater. She loved it and wept over the themes of family and loss and duty. Your review tonight really struck a chord for framing my thoughts on the rewatch all these years later. It's a good (not objectively great) film that hits earnest emotional themes and I have fond memories associated with it. As I rewatched it across my own gulf of time (25 years...a predator indeed) and reflected on the choices I've made in my own life and how much I've changed since then, I'm glad you posted your thoughts now to help remind me why we watch cinema and tell these stories in the first place - to find and perpetuate stories in which we can find the pieces of ourselves. Bravo Zulu.
Okay, the comparison of Picard not taking the artifact to Riker not taking his trombone was priceless!
Speaking as an archaeologist, the fact that Picard even picks the artefact up is significant--in all of this terrible mess--it is still something that is significant to him, and, yes, it is not as significant to him at that moment for very sensible narrative and personal reasons. This is absolutely something that he would want recovered as a priority, but the situation was stable, and it absolutely could have been recovered later. It is a durable object, which is part of how it survived so long, but, again, speaking as an archaeologist, artefacts are irreplaceable, but are damaged or destroyed all the time. If you think it's all going to be pristine and untouched, you are in for some serious heartbreak.
I've got some minutiae for you. I always thought that Picard said his brother and nephew "burned to death in the fire" in reference to Soran's metaphor about time being a fire - not a literal fire. /shrug
You are mistaken.
@@renegadecut9875 I'm pretty confident he says it in the scene immediately after Saron uses the metaphor. I just can't imagine that's a coincidence. I personally think the reference to the metaphor is way better dialogue as well.
@@acctigers1981 Yes, he does, but they still **literally** died in a fire, too. Soran saying it is the movie referencing it and tying time to fire, I know, but that does not mean they only "metaphorically" died in a fire and actually died some other way, which seems like you are implying. They **literally** also died in a fire, and metaphorically "time is the fire" in which we burn. If you're telling me Soran's statement is in reference to this, you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm not saying it's a coincidence. You're not arguing against something I've said because I never said that...but if you are trying to tell me they didn't actually die via fire, you are mistaken. Five seconds on Google could tell you this.
Stop having arguments that can be solved on Google. This isn't a debate on meaning. It's the synopsis of the film.
#CommentsforAlgorithm
#commentundercommentforthealgorithmalsoforthealgorithm
I always thought Picard buried Kirk on the planet because he'd been dead for decades. Then again I was 9 when I saw this in theaters. And a Power Rangers fan. I learned canon doesn't matter for enjoyment rather quickly.
People arguing about ‘canon’ and ‘respect for the character’ merely demonstrate their own lack of life experience.
People DO change, they DO develop, they DO move on - usually in conjunction with life-altering happenings, such as the loss of loved ones, duh 😵💫
I’m quite happy that I was relatively young when ‘Generations’ premiered, with only little baggage to ruin the experience.
That movie was lit!
I loved this movie as a kid (something which always confused my mom, because she thought it was too violent & that the fist fight at the end was too long), and it was largely because Malcolm McDowell is so compelling in this movie. It's a real shame that having to counterbalance the nitpicking when discussing this movie crowds out discussion of the actual movie that was made.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I'm a huge Star Trek fan and absolutely LOVED (and still love) Generations.
Atta boy sticking up for the little Trek’s 🤣 never realized how sentimental this movie was thank you
Interestingly Kirk and Picard wound up in sorta similar places in terms of family. Brothers+nephews died tragically. Picard had no children, Kirk had one son who he barely knew and who got killed shortly after they met. No other relatives to speak of. It's kinda sad, really.
I think an important point is Canon and Continuity are different. Continuity is important because it addresses themes or events that happened and aknowledge existence of different characters etc. Like when Worf appears of DS9 and Sisko says he's sorry to hear about the Enterprise or when DS9 mentions the First Contact Borg incursion. When DS9 premieres and Wolf 359 is addressed as the beginning of the story arc of Sisko it's the Continuity of the Star Trek universe that it addresses the Battle which has not been seen before.
- This movie felt it needed to fabricate a reason for Picard to want to stay in the Nexus, so it yeeted his family so that he'd want a family of his own to keep on the Picard name. Given the distance between the last (and ONLY time) we saw Picard's family, it would have been just as impactful to have Picard be envious of crew members with children. Basically, mirror the scene with Kirk where he comments on Sulu's daughter. Then GIVE him a family in the Nexus.
- Data pushing Crusher off that boat was funny AF, not to mention the SAME EXACT THING the others did to Worf. Another fabricated moment where they were like "TOO FAR DATA"! :D
One way to sum it up is that it’s impossible to make fans of both franchises completely happy. They’ll always find something to complain about.
We got the VHS of this film right after it came out, must have been 1995. I watched it so many times. I've always thought of it more like an extended episode and less a movie. Great video, thanks for sharing.
To prevent my post from ending up as a novel, I'll be concise and say I agree! I would add that in order to really 'get' this movie you have to 'get' the episode Family. It is kind of a companion to this movie and the clearest indication (among others) that the PIcard of seasons 3 through 7 has an arc that culminates with Generations. I've often found that audience members who didn't like this movie tend to dislike or at the very least do not perceive all of the implications that are present in the 'Family' episode and also do not understand how The Best of Both Worlds is elevated because of Family.