5:51 After the collapse, Jessica asks the cafe manager "what did you put in the drink"? Which is interesting because at that point no one had suspected the drink was the cause.
I don't see why this is a problem. I would have asked also because it was the last thing she had before collapsing. Maybe something was in it that she may have been allergic too.
Mirna immediately respond how awful the coffee was after sipping it, she said it over and over, even asking Jessica to get her mineral water immediately after that. Jessica went to the bar to order mineral water, and when she got back to the seats not long after that just few seconds Mirna collapsed. So I think it was very relevant asking what was in the coffee..
Jessica also lies when mirna father ask her what she's drink/ordering for herself while mirna had the cofee, jesica said it was mineral water but the fact is she is ordering cocktail.
She ask that because the smell was horrible. She didnt drink the coffe but she smell something wrong. Thats why she ask the barista what did you put in the drink.
We’re still finding who is the one real suspect in this case, such of mind-boggling case considering that Jessica is not completely 100% false. Just let’s talking within Indonesia law system, we can’t talk much about this
No hecking way! Thank you for analysing this case! We studied her case as uni students. I pretended to be the lab analyst in a mock trial. One of the most important fact in the trial was that they still don't know where she got the "murder weapon", cyanide and the container carrying it was never found. It's not guilty beyond doubt but attempts to get rid of evidence were made and her actions were alarmingly suspicious
there was surely reasonable doubt - and i dont like it any more than anyone else, but its just the legal state of the case. sadly the legal system over there seems to be childish...
She was at the mall. No one was paying attention to her. She could have discarded the bottle anywhere. But, yeah the husband and actions of the waitress was suss. But maybe both she and the waitress were in on it?🤷🏽♀️
It was said by her maid that Jessica gave her jeans that she wore that day to be thrown and she also said that the jeans was weird and had bad smell. And from CCTV, we could see that she was so uncomfortable with her jeans.
When Jessica turned and asked the waitress - what did you put in her drink - that absolutely sealed it for me that she was guilty because she wasn’t even dead at that point yet. Jessica declining to taste the coffee, not helping her friend, etc., also didn’t help. I also didn’t know she previewed the restaurant looking for CCTV cameras.
Then why you never judged victim's family who were not fauvored of autopsy.. and why toxology reports negative for cyanide in victim's body.. why would officers not included cctv footage as evidence.. becoz it's proove nothing... And why would investigators never found the source of this much cyanide... And why they throw away the remaining coffee which victim's drink.. why her other friend and cafe guy not affected by coffee... Can you plzz explain why victim's dad refused say that what he talked to cafe staff... Anyways she free now.. and one of the investigator is behind the bars for different case 😂😂😂😂
I don't know. I feel like there was some pretty heavy diagnosing going on there. He was a bit hard on a couple of them (particularly considering that they were abused/neglected by their former parents).
Maybe your speculation would change if you saw the news of the increasing wealth of the prosecutor Doc. It was all set up by the family, police, prosecutor and the judge.
She went around looking where all the CCTVS were.. After that she left to shop it seems to buy gifts for her friends but in fact she bought gifts in a bag to lay on the table straight in a row to hide what's she was about to do... that is poison Mirna's drink....
Brilliant !!.....a surprise early video ty Dr Grande, and I hope you celebrated hitting 800k yesterday with your family and friends, very well deserved.
I think Mirna eventually knew Jessica was going off the deep end. She saw the signs which is why Mirna: 1. Didn’t invite Jessica to her recent wedding. 2. Mirna invited a 3rd friend to meet w/ Jessica b/c she was afraid to meet with her alone.
Finally someone have the same thinking, 3 of them were sitting together, when mirna having seizure after sipping the coffee, you can see clearly j is just doing nothing, what caught my curiosity, sniffing like 3/4 seconds can it caused death? Cause the friend did it
This case just recently got talked hotly again due to a Netflix adaptation, and I watched a popular and very respectable TV host called Bapak. Karni Ilyas inviting Jessica's lawyer, Mr. Otto Hasibuan. Just last week. With all due respect, I'd say I must agree with Mr. Hasibuan. First of all there was no real Autopsy done on the victim's body. What they did was just taking samples. It's not enough. No Autopsy, no case. That simple. If the dead girl is very important to her family, they'll authorize the autopsy. As SIMPLE as that. Why not, tho? There's other speculation about a huge amount of Life Insurance under the dead girl's name. But I'm not gonna judge. Just keep it as a footnote. Secondly, people turned reddish pink after cyanide poisoning, never blue. Mr. Hasibuan said that after this information came to light, the family of the dead girl came rushing one morning with a new sets of photos with a now pink body. Put those photos on the judge's table, on the judge's table (Mr. Hasibuan was laughing, what on earth for? What is this family member trying to achieve?). While several experts already confirmed the day before that the body was as blue as blueberry. The lawyer then said it's the strangest thing he ever experienced. He could only smile. Next, cyanide is a poison that spreads quickly inside the system and it HAS got to be found in the liver (an organ that neutralizes toxins). Lab findings DID NOT find them there. In fact, cyanide was never found when samples were first taken from the victim's body. It just appeared a few days later, garnering suspicion that it's her own body who produces it as part as decomposing process. Or the embalming. It was found in the digestive system in an amount so little and so insignificant, it will NEVER kill any human being. Next thing, Mr. Hasibuan claimed that other two friends of the victim also tasted the drink. Both of them are still alive. They should also be dead. And now we come to the strangest part. The LIQUID EVIDENCE taken directly from the Cafe was poured into a new plastic bottle. When asked why, it was just said "to make carrying it easier". Suspicious, Mr. Hasibuan bought the exact same glass used to serve that specific Vietnamese coffee from the Cafe, and based on what dead girl drank via straw and the other two friends also drank, he took an experiment and deduct the amount and he knows exavtly how much liquid will be contained in the plastic bottle. What happened tho? In reverse, the amount of liquid from the plastic bottle, poured back into the glass, OVERFLOWS. Understand what this means? That means, it's not even the original proof item from the location. It must've been switched, the amount put recklessly without much thought that a suspicious person will make a measurement. It shouldn't have overflowed. It is SUPPOSED to be an EXACT amount, if it's the real thing. Every lawyer I have asked casually (and I know several because they helped out with our family business) have stand with Mr. Hasibuan. No Autopsy, no case. And the funny thing they also said was this thing: FERDY SAMBO GOT HIS Karma. Now, who is he? He's a high ranking person in the police department and was in charge of the lab where the dead girl is supposed to be analyzed. He was the one with the authority to state that there's cyanide, thus sealing Jessica's case. He is awarded DEATH Penalty not very long ago, for receiving bribes and something unforgivable he did. Now put 1+1 together and sum up on yourself what kind of person he is. On the light of the Netflix series, there are lots of people that actually wants this case to be reopened. And I must say, I am one of these people. I thinks it's absolutely ATROCIOUS to accuse someone WITHOUT ENOUGH PROOF and just play it on the DRAMA FACTOR. This, is not your midday soap opera, lmao. If it turned out that Jessica was previously wrongfully accused, then those that helped that are also murderers. Worse than that because we can wonder what else this involves. Is it money? Lots of it? Its so easy and interesting to make this as colorful as a cheap Hollywood B movie. Teens messing up and killing each others. Of course lots of low IQ people will like this version. The question is, rather than all of these bullshit why not just do PROPER AUTOPSY, like what Jessica's lawyer invited everyone to do??? I'm not defending Jessica or anything. And I have followed her case when it was first aired many years ago. I know she's a troublesome girl too. But troublesome people don't make them automatically a killer. She might just be having poor adjusting skills, etc. In fact, rather than making wrong accusations, why not this channel INVITE MR. OTTO HASIBUAN for a good long talk, if you're so interested about this case? Let the man explain himself and I believe he will do so as well as he does on national TV last week. I would like to see that. Now, can you???
@@letterman7064I wrote this because they're the truth and it's for those with big enough brains to process the information. If clearly you're not one of us, that's okay too. Cheers.
Police investigation was the worst. They completely incompetent for such case. The court was publicly open for media, marathon for months, so you can see how messed up the case was. There was never a proper investigation about the case & the investigation itself was so bizarre. Mirna's family also reject the full autopsy to be done. The other thing also about Jessica was so rigid & so unsympathetic, very suspicious. Hope Mirna rest in peace in her new place now.
Exactly the police cant even secure the evidence as 2 cups and a bottle of coffee taken from the cafe changed to 1 cup and 2 bottle of coffee when its arrived at the laboratory. Also how the victims father came to the court early in the morning and put unlegitimate picture (we dont know where it came or is it legit?)on the judges table and as the trial going the judges just accepted the picture as evidence (pretty weird in my opinion) Also the family refused for autopsy multiple times until the end Also the father blatantly said he have friends in upper rank police and politician and used lots of money. Also the fact that no trace of cyanide in dangerous amounts found in the victims body ( only 0.2 as comparison apple seed have 0.6) The doctor who embalming the body said that the victims body had blue colour not red cherry which means she doesn't died by cyanide
Yeah you absolutely right... justice in Indonesia base on money and power...you have money/power ,law and justice on your side... disappointed but it's reality in our country..im indonesia also live in Jakarta Indonesia
Jessica isn't the typical extrovert Indonesian girl with warm welcoming personality, she's more introvert cold type, it doesn't mean that she's killer because of her personality
I watched the original case from an Australian news and get to this video. Your explanation is very clear and get to the point easly for non English natives.
I just feel the need to say that if you are working in a coffee shop and someone collapses after drinking their coffee you probably should not take a sip to see if it's okay or not. That is above and beyond the job requirements for your pay scale
yes Dr Grande. Majority now believes that Jessica was not guilty, because the physician Dr Djaja who had treated Mirna just 70 minutes after her death found no cyanide in her body. Moreover, the physician saw that her face was blue. It was not what was expected of a cyanide poisoned individual whose face should have turned red.
If it'd death by cyanide, then cyanide should be found in the liver, and in the blood. There should be plenty of cyanide all over. Instead what we get is... a little bit from the stomach.... and nothing is found in the liver nor blood. And it's not proper autopsy on a fresh corpse either! It's just sample taking... from a body 3 days old that has been embalmed ! Truly the incompetence of the police is mind boggling. This case should have been dismissed for lack of evidence.
As an Indonesian who followed the case, I have to point out that they did the reconstruction twice because Jessica kept on lying and doing things different with what cctv shows. And the second time was in sync with the cctv and it clearly shows that she had all the opportunity in the world to do anything to the cup without being seen
Gak di otopsi. Malah muntahannya tidak ada sianida sama sekali.. Sample lambung aja pertama tidak ada sianida, 3 hari baru ada. Itu pun 0.2 tidak membuat org mati.
@@fernandogonata4683 you need to do more research. Jessica's story is not consistent and coherrent with the first simulation. That is why they redo it but the 2nd time with facts that investigator has gathered And Jessica is believed has purposely block cctv view to the coffe glass for minutes with paper bag, which is her opportunity to throw the poison in
@@andreagassi1857 apparently there is explanation from the forensic expert in court about not carrying out an autopsy & amount of cyanide found, even other things such when initially checked the skin color not being red as the case with cyanide poisoning.
As an Indonesian who follwed this case, thank you so much for bringing an awareness to this gruesome tale of murder. It definitely shocked the Indonesian population. Cyanide poisoning in a public cafe, with an incredibly sinister reason to boot; pure jealousy of another woman's better life. However, if I might add just a little correction, I'm not too sure about the political fact that you mentioned? Because from what I've gathered, there never really was a dichotomy between the upper class vs. the lower socioeconomic group, in terms of their opinion of the murderer. Yes, these girls were definitely amongst the upper echelon of the Indonesian population, and this definitely contributed to the 'glamour' of the case, making it even more popular. However I think everyone agreed that Jessica was the killer. I think what truly made this case so intriguing was the fact that Jessica behaved like an exceptionally cold-blooded psycopath during the trial. She was often laughing and smiling, or making light of the situation. It was a total media circus. I think it's similar to America's case of Jodi Arias.
These people could diagnose a case from thousands of miles away but they couldn't figure out that we're not living in a jungle. Four dollars worth of coffee is like my morning, daily. Lol
@@ardi.wibowo Yeah, because you are the upper class of Indonesian society. The fact that you are speaking English on the internet is evidence of that. 43% of Indonesia's population is rural, and a large chunk of the non-rural population are Urban poor.
What about race? I hear there is a big divide between Chinese Indonesians and Javanese Indonesians. Based on her name, this person seems to come from the Chinese minority.
@@jhonklan3794 more like a middle class. And people in rural areas are not necessarily poor, they just won't spend as much for a cup of coffee lol. But you were right on the racism part. People with Chinese heritage aren't exactly respected.
Dr. Grande, the Indonesian legal system is based on the legal system of their previous colonial rulers, i.e. The Netherlands. The Dutch legal system is similar to the German, French, Italian and other Continental European nation, i.e. trial by a panel of judges, NOT by jury. Trial by jury comes from the Anglo-Saxons in old England and can only be found today in the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other former colonies of Britain.
Yeah he acknowledged that I don't want to speak for him, but I'm assuming he still talks about the US standard of beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt as he thinks that's a good way to assess guilt from a legal perspective. Also most viewer are probably american or at least familiar with American culture and thus know that standard too
Me too I think the idea is she got those large bags so she can hide what she was doing I love their soap especially the foaming bath soap Japanese cherry blossom is my fav
I was thinking the same lol. I've got friends who have gifted me shampoo/soap/body butter from the body shop, they smell great, what's wrong about picking soap as a gift lol. In my eyes it's a way to buy a gift that won't posibly offend, and that they'll get some use out of it unless they never shower lol. The bags, sure weird but i would first check the store. Lots of times i've been told "oh, we are out of size XYZ i can only offer you these ones" and you just say sure no problem and move on
Dr. Grande, I think you nailed it when you talk about how politically charged this was by the Indonesian caste system. Prior to your video, I’d never heard of the “witness” implicating the husband of the victim. Coffeehouse Crime just released a great episode on this case as well, for anyone who wants to see some of the surveillance footage. Thanks for another great video Dr! 🥰
The coffee house crime episode on this is excellent yes. I also agree with Dr Grande's analysis that the right result was made (Jessica is clearly guilty as sin) but the going about of getting that conviction was a farce. I have lived in South East Asia for over a decade, and the policing and courts here are a whole different kettle of fish. One does wonder where Jessica managed to get cyanide from though.
@@mrrizzla4961 Cyanide is a naturally occurring substance found in cherry and peach pits, etc. Or she could have ordered it on line from the Dread Pirate Roberts' Silk Road Emporium🤔.
The strangest thing is why Jessica ordered coffee for Mirna before she arrived. Mirna came 15 minutes later and ice had melted. She even asked "why" but drank it straight away. An autopsy was also performed and cyanide was found in his stomach, kidneys and heart. I followed the case at that time. So it is not true to say there was no autopsy. It was just a talking trick for the people on Jessica's side. And the police have also conducted with good standard procedures.
As someone lives in Indonesia, the case became popular now, because the netflix documentary shows something suspicious, because in the court room, his dad says "kamu jangan bohong, saya ini dulu ahli racun, saya tahu dosis sianida untuk membunuh bagaimana," or in english "don't lie,i know how many cianide to kill someone" And the judge ask him about thing that he said before, his dad doesnt answer but talk something else, And one of the police in this case is ferdi sambo, and 5 years after the case ferdi sambo is guilty as a corrupt cop,killed his own subordinates, and being a bribed police,
You don't understand This situation happened in the Cafe at the mall!! Not Inthe family house!! Is father Mirna's at the cafe?!! At the cafe only Jessica, Hani and Mirna 😅
@@Manushan_Melvinlmao. Just as soon as Mirna passed away, tye father divorced his wife and remarry a woman the same age as his deceased daughter. That in itself is already yuck and weird, but it would be okay if it's a happy marriage. Wanna know what happened, tho? Just now I was recommended a video on my RUclips feed (maybe because I'm following this case again after Karni. Ilyas interviewed Otto. Hasibuan on national TV last week). And the news I got was that the new wife ALSO DIED SUDDENLY WHILE THE NIGHT BEFORE SHE WAS REPORTED TOTALLY FINE. Oh come on. It's not Jessica. It's the father. Let's see if this case gets reopened and curious and angry people allover Indonesia demands to know what's truly right. Karma does exist and money can't protect someone forever. Cheers.
@@Manushan_Melvin And you also don't understand the sample that was taken a few hours after the victim's death didn't contain cyanide. The only sample that contains cyanide was taken 3 days after that and they only found 0.2 mg/l in the stomach which is far lower than deadly dose. They don't find any in the liver, blood or urine. So from that we can confirm that she didn't die because of cyanide poisoning. It is still possible that she was poisoned but we can be sure that it was not using cyanide. From that we can probably conclude that the evidence in the case has been tampered. The coffee evidence that contains very large amount of cyanide 7400 mg/l was not the actual coffee that the victim drank.
@@Manushan_Melvinat the Cafe, Hani and one other girl also sampled the drink. They should be as dead as Mirna, yet why are they still alive? I think it's a pity that you missed the interview Bapak Karni. Ilyas did with Mr. Otto Hasibuan and after that with Mirna's father. Literally, anybody could see the lawyer speaking the truth and the father don't. Watching the father's segment, the hairs on my arm stood on end. Literally, when Bapak Karni asked why no Autopsy, the father denied and said there was Autopsy. So Karni said "well it wasn't, they're just samples not proper Autopsy". Then the WORD SALAD begins. The father proceed to try tell his version of the story that Autopsy were performed. Only on his next sentence he SWITCHED BACK N FORTH between Autopsy and Sample. Until I was like, make up your mind, you old geezer.
You're right, totally irrelevant and appears biased. But coincidentally, many cultures consider soap an inappropriate gift (except for family who know you love a certain soap).
I don't find it suspicious that she asked the café staff what they put in the coffee. Her friend talked about how awful the coffee tasted right before collapsing. I may have made a connection here, too, if I would have been in her position - without having anything to do with the murder.
But in group chat she has been asking if there is a doctor in that mall. Furthermore she put her 3 small shopping bags on the table. She was also looking for the cctv left and right above , and nobody ordered a coffee 1 hour earlier than the meeting time. A lot of her behaviours is unusual . She was also not invited to Mirna’s wedding
I absolutely agree with you . I believed that she was quilty but she did not have a fair trial , which everyone deserves. Her defence lawyer realised that half way during the trial as well . In the end I believed that her actions in the coffee shop was highly suspicious and if it could somehow be proven that Mirna's death was by a different method , I would be surprised. Thanks for the analysis.
Do you think it would be fair for Jessica if no cyanide was found in Mirna's body ? Did you know that the gastric fluid taken 70 minutes after Mirna died was NEGATIVE = confirmed there was no cyanide? Then 3 days after Mirna died, on the 2nd shot, there were caffeine remaining in her liver, bile and urine but NO CYANIDE ??
Oh I saw this captured on CCT cameras. She was mad cause she didn’t get invited to wedding. As her GORGEOUS friends life was moving forward with a fairytale wedding, Jessica’s life was unraveling along with her mind! I still enjoy your videos detailing the crime and mental health issues better though. Why would someone order or pre pour a tea 1 hour before drinking.
Couples have small weddings all the time and people don't go around killing others for not being invited... I'm not sure if she was even in the country when the wedding took place. It's a weird motive, I doubt it.
@@Jess-jt4zf that’s what Australian 60 minutes said of the crime. She was jealous and upset because she didn’t get invited due to her increasing erratic stalking behavior.
The husband poisoning the victim through a waitress seems improbable. That would imply that he knew she was coming to that very restaurant the following day, that this particular waitress would be assigned them, and that the waitress would know exactly which of the three seats the victim would choose to strategically place the cyanide in the _right_ coffee. It seems more likely to me that Jessica poisoned one of the coffees and kept them all under her control so she could push the poisoned one to the victim once they seated. Of course I’m speculating here, but the alternative seems wild and ludicrous.
That goes to show you how hateful people like to be with other people's lives. Could you imagine how he was treated after losing his wife because of these crazy accusations?
It’s not cyanide, if it were cyanide, everyone else would have smelled it as it has a very strong smell even in a very small dosage. It could be another poison. But Jessica’s behaviour is indeed very suspicious
@@sho9214 I don't believe it was either. The doctor clearly said she would have been red and not blue. There was no cyanide found in any other part of her body except her stomach. As long as her heart was pumping blood it would have traveled. Some fruit seeds have cyanide. We eat them and are still alive.
I hope nobody ever judges me based on the presence or absence of tears. I have severe dry eye - a fairly common disorder. I might no shed tears if you told me my best friend had died - I don’t make tears much!!
@@princesadelaos😂😂😂😂 agreed... she think she is artist?? i don't have any idea why she's so cool like nothing happened 🤷🏻 i can't understand until now
@@princesadelaos : maybe she's just trying to be strong to endure the trials? You can't expect people to behave the way you expect, or otherwise they will be wrong. That is NOT evidence. "ah my feelings." is not evidence.
@@princesadelaos Do you think it would be fair for Jessica if no cyanide was found in Mirna's body ? Did you know that the gastric fluid taken 70 minutes after Mirna died was NEGATIVE = confirmed there was no cyanide? Then 3 days after Mirna died, on the 2nd shot, there were caffeine remaining in her liver, bile and urine but NO CYANIDE ??
Dr. Grande, you should cover the Edwin Lara case. It is pretty insane and has some interesting mental health content that I think would relate to narcissism. After killing a girl and kidnapping a different one while on the run, Lara decided to call the police and turn himself in but the whole time on the phone call all he did was beg the dispatcher to tell the officers to treat him kindly and not to rough him up when they pulled him over. This was after Lara had already killed two people and currently had a girl kidnapped.
When you're "friend" orders ahead but won't taste test the drink when you're feeling kinda funny....check please! And can I get a refund for the "friend" ie: my life back?
Jessica definitely did it. Although there was no hard evidence, everything was suspect. Ordering drinks way before her friends arrived, checking out the cameras, putting the shopping bags on the table to hide what she was doing in which the bags just contained soap (which is a strange choice and cheap gift to give friends you haven't seen in a long time, IMO), accusing the restaurant of putting something in the drink, and then her weird behavior during the trial. She wasn't even saddened by her friend dying and just kept laughing and smiling. On top of that, although she was apparently wealthy, she had a troubling life with multiple suicide attempts and her ex-boyfriend put a restraining order against her.
I agree with everything except soap. If you buy fancy perfumed soap that’s an ideal gift because it’s something they can use and use up (if you’re like me your friends don’t need more junk). Now if it was some Irish spring then that’s different.
😅 Oh yeah and you forgot the homicidal threats she made to those women along with her reckless car crash into an old folks home 🏡 😳as a "suicide" attempt 🤯 ... This chick was capable of anything evil.
You should try to re-evaluate this case, and now this case is being widely discussed in various media in Indonesia after the documentary film was released on Netflix..
I have watched Jessica Wongso case on other non-English documentaries and many have concluded that she is guilty of murder. Based on her background, I personally believe she killed her friend out of jealousy.
The insurance behind? Jes might have been a Victim herself as she might have been rewarded /asked to kill M?? She was just a tool perhaps as She did behave erratically?? viz confused as she had not intended to do the killing but was forced to do and then felt confused/mad having killed a friend??
Are you absolutely sure she is guilty? that it is beyond all reasonable doubt? That there's zero chance she's innocent? Be careful who you condemn. A special place in hell is reserved for those who unjustly punished an innocent.
I was in indonesia in late 70s, knew the parodoxes. Just imagine, a deputy Minister of law prof Edy became an expert witness for persecutors as legistative law deputy minister, directly or indirectly he could influence all 15 judges invovled in listening the case from provicial to supreme court. This is a parodox where a legistative minister ( superior to supreme judges) and judiciary are on a same platform. The witness who is also Deputy Law Minister can transfer any 15judges to remote Province like Papua or other form of penalty if they dont dance to the music the Law minister of indonesia become a star witness . This is odd. The minister not agriculure or economic should excuse himself from becoming star expert witness or get involved with case. Indonesia judiciary is so peculiar, a Law Deputy minister can appear before 3-15 judges who are in heirarchy are under his direcr or indirect command. It was a mistrial from the beginning. The deputy Law minister todate is still offering public comment on the case, without realising he is the loughing stock of the world as indonesians on average could not find the Deputy Law Minister involving in court case as an anomaly in justice.
Doc, I would recommend the case of Hannah Upp, she has disappeared three times in her lifetime due to an alleged, rare amnesia disorder - dissociative fugue. She is currently missing and was last seen in 2017. It is a very strange story and I would love to hear your opinion on it.
Dr.Grande, could you talk about the rape accusation of Kris Wu, a Canadian Chinese singer? The event has been the headline for one month in China because of its dramatic development and seems to be escalating, with more Chinese celebrities getting involved. Thanks.
i've been vaguely following Kris for 8 years now as i'm a fan of some related chinese artists, and he's had similar allegations popping up every now and then for years, so when Du Meizhu came out with her story, i had no problem believing her. it's not looking good for Kris
@@小鹿-p8f I can't believe I never heard about the past accusations🤦♀️ Was these news only known/published on Chinese websites and such? Or was it known everywhere and I just didn't notice?
"Lethal dose of bullets." Classic Grande. Dr. Grande, please consider looking at the case of Dr. Christopher Duntsch. His case appears to be unique as the I don't believe a single contributing factor accounts for his crimes (narcissism, drug use, psychopathy, insufficient training, etc). It's more like the perfect storm of factors.
YES to Christopher Duntsch! I read an excellent in depth article in on Dentsch, I think in Atlantic Monthly. This guy is both inept and a total psychopath. Let's get the popcorn out.......
Please don’t blame her in one side. We still finding who is the first leader of this case. It seems like media is highlighting Jessica that she was the imposter. Imagine you were in Jessica’s situation, what should you do?
Dr Grande, You have such a strong work ethic. The volume of content is so heavy, I really don’t know how you do it. I work hard, but you top the list for long videos with an abundance of detail. I really can’t see how you do it.
I watched the Netflix documentary. The investigators in the case were inept and Indonesia's legal system is terrible. While there are many reasons I also feel that Jessica was, in fact, guilty of poisoning Mirna, there was never actually any hard evidence entered at trial that proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Jessica was guilty. Honestly though, from a purely emotional perspective - who stares at their friend with indifference while their friend is convulsing and dying before their eyes and then after being arrested for a crime she didn't commit is seen smiling and giggling at the camera.
Apparently no cyanide was found in her stomach by the original forensic doctor . And her father did not want a full autopsy. 1) Funnily , they couldn’t trace or track if she bought any cyanide from anywhere . 2) Mirna was blue ( suggesting lack of oxygen probably due to a stroke ) .. but the same picture was photoshopped to make her look red ( in cyanide ) 3) Mirna’s father mentioned that ‘ I hope nobody think so did it ‘ ( a few times ) .. really strange for a father . This girl had 4.5 mil in life insurance not too long before and her father wa st he beneficiary 4) we all have had a few instances where we fell out with certain ppl . If we gathered those ppl and brought them to court like in Jessica’s case , we’d all be sitting in jail … for what could’ve been 5) the victim was on a diet … ate only an apple ( apple seeds have small doses of cyanide ) and the said coffee . 6) the father comes up ( years later ) with a video showing a hand putting something in a cup of coffee . An expert viewed the video and said it was fake . 7) one of the police officers is now in jails for murder. He’s serving a life sentence . His boss or mentor was the said officer .. monkey see.. monkey do. 8) I might put the gifts I bought for my friends I haven’t seen in years on the table as opposed to putting them on the floor . 9) lastly , we all grief differently… hence I really don’t think there was enough proof for her harsh sentence. .. just my thoughts
@@skimmilk1039 You clearly didn't watch the full conference. There are 3 doctors involved in this case and 2 toxicologists. The doctor already stated that it's not a must to appear cherry red when the person dies of cyanide. Sometimes they can appear blue due to a lack of oxygen. Cyanide can make you short of breath. Hence, Mirna's face is turning blue. But her face turned blue only 72 hours after her death, which is normal. Also, the doctor found Mirna's throat and stomach corrosive, which will never happen in our normal bodies. I've been on a diet for many years, and I have severe GERD and Gastritis. I still consume coffee every day. But I never experienced any poisoning. I salute Mirna's dad for doing the best that he can to bring justice. He even paid a huge amount of money just to find people in Australia to check on Jessica's criminal background and found that Jessica has 14 criminal cases there! She even threatened her boss, her BF (Patrick), that she would poison herself, and she said she knew the right doses to kill someone!! She hit the retirement home with her own car and was rushed to the hospital shortly after. She was even sent to psychiatry to get treatment for her mental illness. The most obvious is: if the barista wanted to poison Mirna, how the hell can he know that the coffee is for Mirna? Jessica did not mention to the barista that she was ordering for Mirna. This is enough information for you to swallow and change your narrative.
I agree that the Indonesian justice system could use an overhaul. Had this happened in the US, reasonable doubt would have been enough to acquit her. I, too, feel that she was guilty. Thank you for covering cases all around the world! It is interesting to see how other criminal cases are adjudicated in other cultures. 🤔😊 EDIT: ONE DAY after hitting the 800,000 mark, you've got 801,000 subs!
Yes! An international audience! It is so good that there is cross-border interest as well as cases from other countries! Imo this is now a global (as opposed to a nationalistic) entity!🌍🌎🌏🌐
@@bthomson it is 💯 a global channel! People from all over the planet watch Dr. Grande. They leave comments and replies which start all kinds of conversations and share opinions and perspectives that may differ from yours. Of course, we all like the humor!😅
you know what's common in indonesia? Some guy was accused of stealing a stereo from a mushala... The mob got so riled up they beat up the poor guy until he's dead. Then... turned out they got the wrong person! It wasn't that guy who's the thief. But ... well... the poor guy's already dead now. No one took responsibility. No shame at all. That's the kind of people we have in indonesia. Too quick to judge... to quick to anger... too harsh in punishment... but often get it all wrong... in their quest to correct injustice, they end up creating even more injustice, ... and yet they never once stop to think perhaps they are the problem. It's same thing too back then when this case was hot... in 2016? The people just got so convinced already about Jessica being guilty, they demanded her blood. The police saw a chance to win popularity and promotion. And so they gave the public what they want. I believe a special place in hell is reserved for those who unjustly punish an innocent. It's going to be most crowded there.
this case becoming popular again in indonesia because of netflix documentary. no one talk about how the forensic doctor explaining so many times that no cyanide found in victim's body.
Kecurigaan adalah wajar, dan hak bagi setiap individu, namun hukum adalah lain. Apabila batas kemampuan hanya kecurigaan maka akan timbul 1000 kecurigaan.
The Indonesian justice system is terrifying. No autopsy, no proven cause of death, yet they prosecuted a woman. This isn't a flawed criminal justice system, this is no criminal justice system. I'm so accustomed to living in a society based on a constitution of mostly unbiased (working on that point) enforcing of laws with protections for our citizens, this story is totally foreign to me. I'm naive, I know, but it's amazing civilized countries are run this way.
you know what's common in indonesia? Some guy was accused of stealing a stereo from a mushala... The mob got so riled up they beat up the poor guy until he's dead. Then... turned out they got the wrong person! It wasn't that guy who's the thief. But ... well... the poor guy's already dead now. No one took responsibility. No shame at all. That's the kind of people we have in indonesia. Too quick to judge... to quick to anger... too harsh in punishment... but often get it all wrong... in their quest to correct injustice, they end up creating even more injustice, ... and yet they never once stop to think perhaps they are the problem. It's same thing too back then when this case was hot... in 2016? The people just got so convinced already about Jessica being guilty, they demanded her blood. The police saw a chance to win popularity and promotion. And so they gave the public what they want. I believe a special place in hell is reserved for those who unjustly punish an innocent. It's going to be most crowded there.
Thank you for the analysis. This was far more informative than the Netflix documentary. I have hard time seeing that Jessica would have been found guilty in a western country based on the lack of evidence and the undetermined cause of death. The activity of the police was also suspicious. People might have been paid off to say certain things, including the cafe staff.
This case got huge coverage in my country and became the topic of everyday conversations. There were memes and jokes about coffee, cyanide and Jessica. The trials were live on tv with reporters and lawyers commenting on the case. I was so sick of the news so I didn't catch up with the details.
Your justice system is a joke. I remember what they did to Schapelle Corby. Also it is said that no one who ever comes before that court accused of smuggling drugs goes free.
According to the Netflix documentary her father spoke to the cafe staff and could have possibly helped them create a story that was consistent to prove Jessica’s guilt…when asked what they spoke to him about they refused to say…
Mirna immediately responded how awful the coffee was after sipping it, she said it over and over, even was asking Jessica to get her mineral water immediately after that. Jessica went to the bar to order mineral water, and when she got back to the seats not long after that just few seconds Mirna collapsed. So I think it was very relevant asking what was in the coffee..
There was a msg from Mirna in their group chat that she will be at the caffee at 4pm. Thats why she ordered it. But it ended Mirna came late. So late. Without a msg on their group chat about why.
She was recorded casing the restaurant, walking around looking for cameras, repeatedly rearranging bags to block drinks and finding least observable seat. Unfortunately for her, she missed the camera pointed at her. She ordered signature drinks long before friends' arrival in a place known for performance of making the drinks. I encourage people to watch videos of what she was doing. This get-together was so surprising and uncomfortable, that the victim brought another friend along just in case - Perpetrator behaved with forced intimacy toward the victim including roaming around the other's private quarters in the family's house on a rare visit. Families were very wealthy and that behavior was shocking. Jessica's gathering was a surprise because their last meeting was so bitter - she literally stormed out of a lunch with the victim and her fiance without a word and was furious that she didn't get invited to the wedding, finding out after the fact. There is A LOT more. When she arrived in court it was if she was a starlet to an interview. Totally narcissistic and deranged. Bottom line - she was pathological liar, delusional, resentful and bitter out for revenge. The fake "gifts" were just 'Bath & Bodyworks' body wash, i.e. a cheap popular stockjng-stuffer/random item for women her age and wealth. Both women were wealthy, so it seems odd for that reason. No doubt that she was guilty.
oh you should watch the victim's dad interviews first so we can discuss the "pathological liar, delusional, resentful and bitter out for revenge" part LOL
An assumption without proof is a Lie and there is nothing more disgusting than people who trying to force other people to believe their lies. So disgusting liar, are you one of them? . 💩
It's actually not that long if we consider the fact that the victim said she would arrived at 4ish and J order the drink around 4.30. But the victim came around 5.17
Fascinating case and your analysis was excellent! It would be lovely if you could cover this one on your podcast. I just feel there so much to say about it... Thank you so much Dr. Grande, for another very interesting review.❤️
To those who insisting Jessica was guilty, please explain, why the family refused an autopsy while it's compulsory when the death was suspicious, where was the ACTUAL recorder, why the forensic expertise opinion were dismissed, instead relying on the opinion of the body language expert? Please explain why there wasn't any trace of cyanide in the vomit?
The only one who can explain is myrna's family. But it's their right to give permission of autopsy or not. It's their personal matter, as it's related to the deceases body. It's not unheard of for family refusing for autopsy. This alone doesn't prove that Jessica wasn't guilty. Nor a reason good enough to suspect that Jessica wasn't guilty, compared ti some other odd factors happened around the case. However, why do you seem to insist that Jessica wasn't guilty? How do you relate with her? 🤔
I still do believe jessica is guilty. Although, mirna's father is indeed a bit creepy and a narcissist in a sense, probably an upper class behavior. Jessica was way too calm during every devastating court process as if it wasn't her 1st time having these kinda 'issue'
Fun fact, there's is no Cynide in Mirna's body after she's dead and "not" doing autopsy where it's very important for police evidence but taking a piece of body sample for check up.. so, what happendd?
Ini lagi koplak, lu tau drmn tubuh mirna g ada sianida sdgkan disana g ada otopsi, gmn kalo memang ada sianida di liver? Gmn kalo memang ada di ginjal? Krn sampel lambungnya aja ada sianidanya bahkan setelah dia meninggal, kok bisa2 lh bilang di tubuh ga ada Sianida sdgkan otopsi nya aja g dilakuin
Justru itu pentingnya otopsi ya si paling pinter, kenapa jg pihak kepolisian minta surat ijin otopsi ke pihak forensik tp gak ada otopsi? Hrsnya ga ada otopsi ya ga ada kasus lah, ada pun jg cuma ambil sampel dan hasilnya 0,2mg ga mematikan Lu sendiri komen jg ga psti ada apa gak klo ada jg dmana brarti disini prosedur penanganan kasusnya udh dipertanyakan.. dimana mana ya ada kasus melibatkan org mati ya hrs otopsi dlu sesuai undang" jd penyebabnya apa bisa di teliti ga asal vonis orang
@@dvrama lha lu juga koplak orang liver g dicek kok pasti bilang ga ada 🤣🤣 ,, itu dilambung kan ada sianida bambang plus kerongkongan korosif ga mgkin cuma minum kopi tu kerongkongan lu rusak 🤣🤣 dr Jaya saksi ahli J cuma nyebutin bukan krna sianida tapi krn zat lain kalopun itu di racun,, lucu ente cuma ikut2an doang g tau cerita lengkapnya
There are so many unanswered questions in this case. To me it appears circumstantial. No real investigation appears to have been done. This one is plain weird. But the plants are in order on the side diagonally from the shortest to the biggest. The 2 in the center are huddling, they might be plotting to accidentally shove the littlest one off the table😎
Anyone that orders a drink for their friends 51 minutes before they arrive is suspicious to me.
Never!
Exactly. I will order my own when I get there
@@cheridehart7771 Always
@@violetedge83The drink will also get cold if she ordered hot coffee or flat if she ordered iced.
Yeah, this is the second video on this crime and neither included her explanation for doing that.
No one orders a coffee for someone else who hasn't arrived yet, it's going to cold or melted. That in itself is suspect.
It was iced coffee: they drink it with a straw.
@@marysylvie2012 Uh, it wouldn't have been very icy after sitting on a table for almost an hour.
She probably did it under the guise of saving her friends time and lying about the cafe being busy
Why do i keep seeing you in the comments dishing out verdicts and misusing grammer
Melted coffee, a sign of the times. ;).
5:51 After the collapse, Jessica asks the cafe manager "what did you put in the drink"? Which is interesting because at that point no one had suspected the drink was the cause.
I don't see why this is a problem. I would have asked also because it was the last thing she had before collapsing. Maybe something was in it that she may have been allergic too.
Mirna immediately respond how awful the coffee was after sipping it, she said it over and over, even asking Jessica to get her mineral water immediately after that. Jessica went to the bar to order mineral water, and when she got back to the seats not long after that just few seconds Mirna collapsed. So I think it was very relevant asking what was in the coffee..
Jessica also lies when mirna father ask her what she's drink/ordering for herself while mirna had the cofee, jesica said it was mineral water but the fact is she is ordering cocktail.
@@infjne9405
And she had 2 glasses of cocktails.
She ask that because the smell was horrible. She didnt drink the coffe but she smell something wrong. Thats why she ask the barista what did you put in the drink.
I had a feeling you’d hit up on this story. Never a stone unturned for you, Dr Grande! Love your 2 cents on every whack job out there!
yeah me too. I like it when he shows them to be even less nuts then the common thought of them is.
YAAASS!! this was on the news for more than a year in Indonesia! Thanks for covering this case ❤️🇮🇩
Seru bgt ya ngikut kasus ini haha, gk pernah kelewat siaran livenya. Dan sangat yakin si jessica pembunuhnya
We’re still finding who is the one real suspect in this case, such of mind-boggling case considering that Jessica is not completely 100% false. Just let’s talking within Indonesia law system, we can’t talk much about this
Those cacti have to be experts in criminal psychology by now.
I think they are all learning to be stand up comedians!
@@bthomson Lol and poking fun of each other in the process
No hecking way! Thank you for analysing this case! We studied her case as uni students. I pretended to be the lab analyst in a mock trial. One of the most important fact in the trial was that they still don't know where she got the "murder weapon", cyanide and the container carrying it was never found. It's not guilty beyond doubt but attempts to get rid of evidence were made and her actions were alarmingly suspicious
there was surely reasonable doubt - and i dont like it any more than anyone else, but its just the legal state of the case. sadly the legal system over there seems to be childish...
@@BrainDamageComedyWhat's the reasonable doubt? Do y'all.
She was at the mall. No one was paying attention to her. She could have discarded the bottle anywhere. But, yeah the husband and actions of the waitress was suss. But maybe both she and the waitress were in on it?🤷🏽♀️
It was said by her maid that Jessica gave her jeans that she wore that day to be thrown and she also said that the jeans was weird and had bad smell. And from CCTV, we could see that she was so uncomfortable with her jeans.
@@Mehki227 the coffee was served in front of the guest, they mixed everything in front of Jessica not in the kitchen.
Suspicion is not a proof. You can't put someone at jail due to suspicion.
There has to be a proof beyond reasonable doubt.
When Jessica turned and asked the waitress - what did you put in her drink - that absolutely sealed it for me that she was guilty because she wasn’t even dead at that point yet. Jessica declining to taste the coffee, not helping her friend, etc., also didn’t help. I also didn’t know she previewed the restaurant looking for CCTV cameras.
Then why you never judged victim's family who were not fauvored of autopsy.. and why toxology reports negative for cyanide in victim's body.. why would officers not included cctv footage as evidence.. becoz it's proove nothing... And why would investigators never found the source of this much cyanide... And why they throw away the remaining coffee which victim's drink.. why her other friend and cafe guy not affected by coffee... Can you plzz explain why victim's dad refused say that what he talked to cafe staff... Anyways she free now.. and one of the investigator is behind the bars for different case 😂😂😂😂
Love when you only speculate, Doc. Big respect for your car-speculating and not diagnosing skills, also.
I know. The detail of work he did on his car, his memory skills are very impressive
I don't know. I feel like there was some pretty heavy diagnosing going on there. He was a bit hard on a couple of them (particularly considering that they were abused/neglected by their former parents).
Maybe your speculation would change if you saw the news of the increasing wealth of the prosecutor Doc. It was all set up by the family, police, prosecutor and the judge.
I was just watching the 60 minutes coverage of this case. Can't wait to hear your thoughts!
Me too
She went around looking where all the CCTVS were.. After that she left to shop it seems to buy gifts for her friends but in fact she bought gifts in a bag to lay on the table straight in a row to hide what's she was about to do... that is poison Mirna's drink....
Brilliant !!.....a surprise early video ty Dr Grande, and I hope you celebrated hitting 800k yesterday with your family and friends, very well deserved.
"Well, about 90mg" actually got a small snort laugh out of me
I find today's background setup particularly aesthetically pleasing. 🌵📙
I think Mirna eventually knew Jessica was going off the deep end. She saw the signs which is why Mirna:
1. Didn’t invite Jessica to her recent wedding.
2. Mirna invited a 3rd friend to meet w/ Jessica b/c she was afraid to meet with her alone.
Finally someone have the same thinking, 3 of them were sitting together, when mirna having seizure after sipping the coffee, you can see clearly j is just doing nothing, what caught my curiosity, sniffing like 3/4 seconds can it caused death? Cause the friend did it
Thought you had gotten rid of the little plants I see that you just like to mix up the scenery. Very lovely.
This case just recently got talked hotly again due to a Netflix adaptation, and I watched a popular and very respectable TV host called Bapak. Karni Ilyas inviting Jessica's lawyer, Mr. Otto Hasibuan. Just last week.
With all due respect, I'd say I must agree with Mr. Hasibuan. First of all there was no real Autopsy done on the victim's body. What they did was just taking samples. It's not enough. No Autopsy, no case. That simple. If the dead girl is very important to her family, they'll authorize the autopsy. As SIMPLE as that. Why not, tho? There's other speculation about a huge amount of Life Insurance under the dead girl's name. But I'm not gonna judge. Just keep it as a footnote. Secondly, people turned reddish pink after cyanide poisoning, never blue. Mr. Hasibuan said that after this information came to light, the family of the dead girl came rushing one morning with a new sets of photos with a now pink body. Put those photos on the judge's table, on the judge's table (Mr. Hasibuan was laughing, what on earth for? What is this family member trying to achieve?). While several experts already confirmed the day before that the body was as blue as blueberry. The lawyer then said it's the strangest thing he ever experienced. He could only smile.
Next, cyanide is a poison that spreads quickly inside the system and it HAS got to be found in the liver (an organ that neutralizes toxins). Lab findings DID NOT find them there. In fact, cyanide was never found when samples were first taken from the victim's body. It just appeared a few days later, garnering suspicion that it's her own body who produces it as part as decomposing process. Or the embalming. It was found in the digestive system in an amount so little and so insignificant, it will NEVER kill any human being.
Next thing, Mr. Hasibuan claimed that other two friends of the victim also tasted the drink. Both of them are still alive. They should also be dead. And now we come to the strangest part. The LIQUID EVIDENCE taken directly from the Cafe was poured into a new plastic bottle. When asked why, it was just said "to make carrying it easier". Suspicious, Mr. Hasibuan bought the exact same glass used to serve that specific Vietnamese coffee from the Cafe, and based on what dead girl drank via straw and the other two friends also drank, he took an experiment and deduct the amount and he knows exavtly how much liquid will be contained in the plastic bottle. What happened tho? In reverse, the amount of liquid from the plastic bottle, poured back into the glass, OVERFLOWS. Understand what this means? That means, it's not even the original proof item from the location. It must've been switched, the amount put recklessly without much thought that a suspicious person will make a measurement. It shouldn't have overflowed. It is SUPPOSED to be an EXACT amount, if it's the real thing.
Every lawyer I have asked casually (and I know several because they helped out with our family business) have stand with Mr. Hasibuan. No Autopsy, no case. And the funny thing they also said was this thing: FERDY SAMBO GOT HIS Karma. Now, who is he? He's a high ranking person in the police department and was in charge of the lab where the dead girl is supposed to be analyzed. He was the one with the authority to state that there's cyanide, thus sealing Jessica's case. He is awarded DEATH Penalty not very long ago, for receiving bribes and something unforgivable he did. Now put 1+1 together and sum up on yourself what kind of person he is.
On the light of the Netflix series, there are lots of people that actually wants this case to be reopened. And I must say, I am one of these people.
I thinks it's absolutely ATROCIOUS to accuse someone WITHOUT ENOUGH PROOF and just play it on the DRAMA FACTOR. This, is not your midday soap opera, lmao. If it turned out that Jessica was previously wrongfully accused, then those that helped that are also murderers. Worse than that because we can wonder what else this involves. Is it money? Lots of it?
Its so easy and interesting to make this as colorful as a cheap Hollywood B movie. Teens messing up and killing each others. Of course lots of low IQ people will like this version. The question is, rather than all of these bullshit why not just do PROPER AUTOPSY, like what Jessica's lawyer invited everyone to do???
I'm not defending Jessica or anything. And I have followed her case when it was first aired many years ago. I know she's a troublesome girl too. But troublesome people don't make them automatically a killer. She might just be having poor adjusting skills, etc.
In fact, rather than making wrong accusations, why not this channel INVITE MR. OTTO HASIBUAN for a good long talk, if you're so interested about this case? Let the man explain himself and I believe he will do so as well as he does on national TV last week. I would like to see that. Now, can you???
Yup, please reopen analysis for this case. There are many experts who explain the truth now, something that covered by the media back then.
i aint readin allat 💀
@@letterman7064I wrote this because they're the truth and it's for those with big enough brains to process the information. If clearly you're not one of us, that's okay too. Cheers.
@@letterman7064 It is Ironic your name is Letterman but refused to read just a few paragraph of letters lol
She was the only one who didn't say anything and during trial she only was laughing.
Police investigation was the worst. They completely incompetent for such case. The court was publicly open for media, marathon for months, so you can see how messed up the case was. There was never a proper investigation about the case & the investigation itself was so bizarre. Mirna's family also reject the full autopsy to be done. The other thing also about Jessica was so rigid & so unsympathetic, very suspicious. Hope Mirna rest in peace in her new place now.
You are wrong
Exactly the police cant even secure the evidence as 2 cups and a bottle of coffee taken from the cafe changed to 1 cup and 2 bottle of coffee when its arrived at the laboratory. Also how the victims father came to the court early in the morning and put unlegitimate picture (we dont know where it came or is it legit?)on the judges table and as the trial going the judges just accepted the picture as evidence (pretty weird in my opinion)
Also the family refused for autopsy multiple times until the end
Also the father blatantly said he have friends in upper rank police and politician and used lots of money.
Also the fact that no trace of cyanide in dangerous amounts found in the victims body ( only 0.2 as comparison apple seed have 0.6)
The doctor who embalming the body said that the victims body had blue colour not red cherry which means she doesn't died by cyanide
Agree. No autopsi no case.
Yeah you absolutely right... justice in Indonesia base on money and power...you have money/power ,law and justice on your side... disappointed but it's reality in our country..im indonesia also live in Jakarta Indonesia
Jessica isn't the typical extrovert Indonesian girl with warm welcoming personality, she's more introvert cold type, it doesn't mean that she's killer because of her personality
"A lethal dose of bullets"......how could you not laugh at Dr Grande's humour ?
The timing and execution of that line 😂
Fatal dose of lead. Dr. Grande is the best.
Lake City quiet pills
Jessica did say about the perfect lethal dosage of poison to kill someone
I watched the original case from an Australian news and get to this video. Your explanation is very clear and get to the point easly for non English natives.
I just feel the need to say that if you are working in a coffee shop and someone collapses after drinking their coffee you probably should not take a sip to see if it's okay or not.
That is above and beyond the job requirements for your pay scale
Hey, I think someone peed in my coffee, here take a sip of this and tell me what you think.
☕🤔🤭🤣🤣🤣🤣
Amen
Yeah how stupid do you have to be to drink from the same cup someone accused of being poisoned???
True, but they didn't think of poison at first.
yes Dr Grande. Majority now believes that Jessica was not guilty, because the physician Dr Djaja who had treated Mirna just 70 minutes after her death found no cyanide in her body. Moreover, the physician saw that her face was blue. It was not what was expected of a cyanide poisoned individual whose face should have turned red.
If it'd death by cyanide, then cyanide should be found in the liver, and in the blood. There should be plenty of cyanide all over.
Instead what we get is... a little bit from the stomach.... and nothing is found in the liver nor blood.
And it's not proper autopsy on a fresh corpse either! It's just sample taking... from a body 3 days old that has been embalmed !
Truly the incompetence of the police is mind boggling. This case should have been dismissed for lack of evidence.
As an Indonesian who followed the case, I have to point out that they did the reconstruction twice because Jessica kept on lying and doing things different with what cctv shows. And the second time was in sync with the cctv and it clearly shows that she had all the opportunity in the world to do anything to the cup without being seen
Gak di otopsi. Malah muntahannya tidak ada sianida sama sekali.. Sample lambung aja pertama tidak ada sianida, 3 hari baru ada. Itu pun 0.2 tidak membuat org mati.
it's not because she is lying, the reconstruction itself made up by the police lol
and what kind opportunity? pls enlighten me
@@jonasalvarogerrard3212 interesting claim, but you need to support it and show that data
@@fernandogonata4683 you need to do more research. Jessica's story is not consistent and coherrent with the first simulation. That is why they redo it but the 2nd time with facts that investigator has gathered
And Jessica is believed has purposely block cctv view to the coffe glass for minutes with paper bag, which is her opportunity to throw the poison in
@@andreagassi1857 apparently there is explanation from the forensic expert in court about not carrying out an autopsy & amount of cyanide found, even other things such when initially checked the skin color not being red as the case with cyanide poisoning.
As an Indonesian who follwed this case, thank you so much for bringing an awareness to this gruesome tale of murder. It definitely shocked the Indonesian population. Cyanide poisoning in a public cafe, with an incredibly sinister reason to boot; pure jealousy of another woman's better life.
However, if I might add just a little correction, I'm not too sure about the political fact that you mentioned? Because from what I've gathered, there never really was a dichotomy between the upper class vs. the lower socioeconomic group, in terms of their opinion of the murderer. Yes, these girls were definitely amongst the upper echelon of the Indonesian population, and this definitely contributed to the 'glamour' of the case, making it even more popular. However I think everyone agreed that Jessica was the killer. I think what truly made this case so intriguing was the fact that Jessica behaved like an exceptionally cold-blooded psycopath during the trial. She was often laughing and smiling, or making light of the situation. It was a total media circus. I think it's similar to America's case of Jodi Arias.
These people could diagnose a case from thousands of miles away but they couldn't figure out that we're not living in a jungle. Four dollars worth of coffee is like my morning, daily. Lol
@@ardi.wibowo Yeah, because you are the upper class of Indonesian society. The fact that you are speaking English on the internet is evidence of that. 43% of Indonesia's population is rural, and a large chunk of the non-rural population are Urban poor.
What about race?
I hear there is a big divide between Chinese Indonesians and Javanese Indonesians. Based on her name, this person seems to come from the Chinese minority.
@@jhonklan3794 more like a middle class. And people in rural areas are not necessarily poor, they just won't spend as much for a cup of coffee lol. But you were right on the racism part. People with Chinese heritage aren't exactly respected.
Memang peninggalan belanda tapi banyak negara masih pakai ada dua jenis pengadilan. Yang pakao juri atau berdasarkan keputusan hakim
Dr. Grande, the Indonesian legal system is based on the legal system of their previous colonial rulers, i.e. The Netherlands.
The Dutch legal system is similar to the German, French, Italian and other Continental European nation, i.e. trial by a panel of judges, NOT by jury.
Trial by jury comes from the Anglo-Saxons in old England and can only be found today in the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other former colonies of Britain.
Yeah he acknowledged that I don't want to speak for him, but I'm assuming he still talks about the US standard of beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt as he thinks that's a good way to assess guilt from a legal perspective. Also most viewer are probably american or at least familiar with American culture and thus know that standard too
The modern Dutch and German legal systems look nothing like the modern Indonesian one, by the way.
Personally; I love it when someone gives me a bottle of Bath and Body Works soap. Just saying - not that it makes any difference at all.
Me too I think the idea is she got those large bags so she can hide what she was doing I love their soap especially the foaming bath soap Japanese cherry blossom is my fav
Maybe the reason they thought it was inappropriate was that someone could take a gift of soap as “you think I’m dirty/smelly???”
Seriously!
Maybe they thought it was inappropriate because the "friends" were estranged for a while before meeting up.
I was thinking the same lol. I've got friends who have gifted me shampoo/soap/body butter from the body shop, they smell great, what's wrong about picking soap as a gift lol.
In my eyes it's a way to buy a gift that won't posibly offend, and that they'll get some use out of it unless they never shower lol.
The bags, sure weird but i would first check the store. Lots of times i've been told "oh, we are out of size XYZ i can only offer you these ones" and you just say sure no problem and move on
Dr. Grande, I think you nailed it when you talk about how politically charged this was by the Indonesian caste system. Prior to your video, I’d never heard of the “witness” implicating the husband of the victim. Coffeehouse Crime just released a great episode on this case as well, for anyone who wants to see some of the surveillance footage. Thanks for another great video Dr! 🥰
The coffee house crime episode on this is excellent yes. I also agree with Dr Grande's analysis that the right result was made (Jessica is clearly guilty as sin) but the going about of getting that conviction was a farce.
I have lived in South East Asia for over a decade, and the policing and courts here are a whole different kettle of fish.
One does wonder where Jessica managed to get cyanide from though.
@@mrrizzla4961 Cyanide is a naturally occurring substance found in cherry and peach pits, etc. Or she could have ordered it on line from the Dread Pirate Roberts' Silk Road Emporium🤔.
@@evelynwaugh4053 don't make it easy for people to find it lol
Indonesia don't have a caste system tho ☠️
@@mre1369 😂 honestly I was like ??? This ain't India?
The strangest thing is why Jessica ordered coffee for Mirna before she arrived. Mirna came 15 minutes later and ice had melted. She even asked "why" but drank it straight away. An autopsy was also performed and cyanide was found in his stomach, kidneys and heart. I followed the case at that time. So it is not true to say there was no autopsy. It was just a talking trick for the people on Jessica's side. And the police have also conducted with good standard procedures.
tidak ada otopsi hanya pengambilan sampel
@@winnput7159 pengambilan sampel pada organ2 tertentu yg terdapat sianida,,sama sj namanya autopsi parsial
@@winnput7159 sampelnya diambil di bagian perut, ginjal dan hati
No autopsy just Samples, and 0.2mg were found, less than what you would find if you swallowed an apple seed, 0.6 mg
Were did you get these info from?.
Also, taking samples is not an autopsy.
As someone lives in Indonesia, the case became popular now, because the netflix documentary shows something suspicious, because in the court room, his dad says "kamu jangan bohong, saya ini dulu ahli racun, saya tahu dosis sianida untuk membunuh bagaimana," or in english "don't lie,i know how many cianide to kill someone"
And the judge ask him about thing that he said before, his dad doesnt answer but talk something else,
And one of the police in this case is ferdi sambo, and 5 years after the case ferdi sambo is guilty as a corrupt cop,killed his own subordinates, and being a bribed police,
You don't understand
This situation happened in the Cafe at the mall!!
Not Inthe family house!!
Is father Mirna's at the cafe?!!
At the cafe only Jessica, Hani and Mirna
😅
@@Manushan_Melvinlmao. Just as soon as Mirna passed away, tye father divorced his wife and remarry a woman the same age as his deceased daughter. That in itself is already yuck and weird, but it would be okay if it's a happy marriage.
Wanna know what happened, tho? Just now I was recommended a video on my RUclips feed (maybe because I'm following this case again after Karni. Ilyas interviewed Otto. Hasibuan on national TV last week). And the news I got was that the new wife ALSO DIED SUDDENLY WHILE THE NIGHT BEFORE SHE WAS REPORTED TOTALLY FINE.
Oh come on. It's not Jessica. It's the father. Let's see if this case gets reopened and curious and angry people allover Indonesia demands to know what's truly right. Karma does exist and money can't protect someone forever. Cheers.
@@Manushan_Melvin And you also don't understand the sample that was taken a few hours after the victim's death didn't contain cyanide. The only sample that contains cyanide was taken 3 days after that and they only found 0.2 mg/l in the stomach which is far lower than deadly dose. They don't find any in the liver, blood or urine. So from that we can confirm that she didn't die because of cyanide poisoning. It is still possible that she was poisoned but we can be sure that it was not using cyanide. From that we can probably conclude that the evidence in the case has been tampered. The coffee evidence that contains very large amount of cyanide 7400 mg/l was not the actual coffee that the victim drank.
@@Manushan_Melvinat the Cafe, Hani and one other girl also sampled the drink. They should be as dead as Mirna, yet why are they still alive? I think it's a pity that you missed the interview Bapak Karni. Ilyas did with Mr. Otto Hasibuan and after that with Mirna's father.
Literally, anybody could see the lawyer speaking the truth and the father don't. Watching the father's segment, the hairs on my arm stood on end. Literally, when Bapak Karni asked why no Autopsy, the father denied and said there was Autopsy. So Karni said "well it wasn't, they're just samples not proper Autopsy". Then the WORD SALAD begins. The father proceed to try tell his version of the story that Autopsy were performed. Only on his next sentence he SWITCHED BACK N FORTH between Autopsy and Sample. Until I was like, make up your mind, you old geezer.
@@curiouscat428 klo bukan Jesika yg bunuh tunjukkin dong cara bunuh nya si Mirna ? Klo bukan di sianida kemudian di apaain? Disianida dari rumah kah?
Imagine deeming handsoap an inappropriate gift and considered relevant in a murder trial.
😜
You're right, totally irrelevant and appears biased.
But coincidentally, many cultures consider soap an inappropriate gift (except for family who know you love a certain soap).
@@l.w.paradis2108 wth, different soaps are the most common little gift things
@@Lyle-xc9pg Be careful with that *if* the person is from a different culture. Trust me.
@@Lyle-xc9pg over where i live it’s considered an insult. its like an underhanded way of calling someone smelly here.
Hello, I'd like to order a Tall, Non-Fat Latte With Caramel Drizzle, with no cyanide please.
Extra antifreeze drizzle instead?
The old "hold the cyanide".
@@miranda13c sounds delicious!
I don't find it suspicious that she asked the café staff what they put in the coffee. Her friend talked about how awful the coffee tasted right before collapsing. I may have made a connection here, too, if I would have been in her position - without having anything to do with the murder.
I agree with that.
But in group chat she has been asking if there is a doctor in that mall. Furthermore she put her 3 small shopping bags on the table. She was also looking for the cctv left and right above , and nobody ordered a coffee 1 hour earlier than the meeting time. A lot of her behaviours is unusual . She was also not invited to Mirna’s wedding
Yeah!
I absolutely agree with you . I believed that she was quilty but she did not have a fair trial , which everyone deserves. Her defence lawyer realised that half way during the trial as well . In the end I believed that her actions in the coffee shop was highly suspicious and if it could somehow be proven that Mirna's death was by a different method , I would be surprised. Thanks for the analysis.
Do you think it would be fair for Jessica if no cyanide was found in Mirna's body ? Did you know that the gastric fluid taken 70 minutes after Mirna died was NEGATIVE = confirmed there was no cyanide? Then 3 days after Mirna died, on the 2nd shot, there were caffeine remaining in her liver, bile and urine but NO CYANIDE ??
Oh I saw this captured on CCT cameras. She was mad cause she didn’t get invited to wedding. As her GORGEOUS friends life was moving forward with a fairytale wedding, Jessica’s life was unraveling along with her mind! I still enjoy your videos detailing the crime and mental health issues better though. Why would someone order or pre pour a tea 1 hour before drinking.
What does her attactiveness have to do with anything lol
Couples have small weddings all the time and people don't go around killing others for not being invited... I'm not sure if she was even in the country when the wedding took place. It's a weird motive, I doubt it.
@@Onus6688 perhaps Jessica was jealous of Mirnas beauty?
@@Onus6688 the girl was said to be jealous of her. She was apparently a socialite. Austrian 60 minutes did a show on her
@@Jess-jt4zf that’s what Australian 60 minutes said of the crime. She was jealous and upset because she didn’t get invited due to her increasing erratic stalking behavior.
The husband poisoning the victim through a waitress seems improbable. That would imply that he knew she was coming to that very restaurant the following day, that this particular waitress would be assigned them, and that the waitress would know exactly which of the three seats the victim would choose to strategically place the cyanide in the _right_ coffee. It seems more likely to me that Jessica poisoned one of the coffees and kept them all under her control so she could push the poisoned one to the victim once they seated. Of course I’m speculating here, but the alternative seems wild and ludicrous.
That goes to show you how hateful people like to be with other people's lives. Could you imagine how he was treated after losing his wife because of these crazy accusations?
Only Mirna who order some coffe, jessica ,and hani order some fruity ice
It’s not cyanide, if it were cyanide, everyone else would have smelled it as it has a very strong smell even in a very small dosage. It could be another poison.
But Jessica’s behaviour is indeed very suspicious
@@sho9214 I don't believe it was either. The doctor clearly said she would have been red and not blue. There was no cyanide found in any other part of her body except her stomach. As long as her heart was pumping blood it would have traveled. Some fruit seeds have cyanide. We eat them and are still alive.
@@hennesseyme9112indo netizen is easily change becoz of netflix. and of course it was a fortune for jessica family now, try to turn the table
I hope nobody ever judges me based on the presence or absence of tears. I have severe dry eye - a fairly common disorder. I might no shed tears if you told me my best friend had died - I don’t make tears much!!
it's not that she didnt cry, she was smiling and waving at the camera like she was in a beauty pageant while on trial
@@princesadelaos😂😂😂😂 agreed... she think she is artist?? i don't have any idea why she's so cool like nothing happened 🤷🏻 i can't understand until now
@@princesadelaos : maybe she's just trying to be strong to endure the trials? You can't expect people to behave the way you expect, or otherwise they will be wrong. That is NOT evidence.
"ah my feelings." is not evidence.
@@princesadelaos Do you think it would be fair for Jessica if no cyanide was found in Mirna's body ? Did you know that the gastric fluid taken 70 minutes after Mirna died was NEGATIVE = confirmed there was no cyanide? Then 3 days after Mirna died, on the 2nd shot, there were caffeine remaining in her liver, bile and urine but NO CYANIDE ??
But would you be laughing hysterically during court proceedings though?
Congratulations on reaching over 800,000 subscribers truly amazing, thank you for hours of contact that you produce for us
I watched the 60 minutes Australia piece on this case the other day...happy that you are covering the case! Can you do a video on Jho Low too?
Dr. Grande, you should cover the Edwin Lara case. It is pretty insane and has some interesting mental health content that I think would relate to narcissism. After killing a girl and kidnapping a different one while on the run, Lara decided to call the police and turn himself in but the whole time on the phone call all he did was beg the dispatcher to tell the officers to treat him kindly and not to rough him up when they pulled him over. This was after Lara had already killed two people and currently had a girl kidnapped.
“Lethal dose of bullets” Lol, right up there with “lead poisoning”
Good one
Dr. Grande, early today!🙂
Looking forward to watch it once I am done at work:)😉
Yay! New video. Thanks, Dr. Grande.
When you're "friend" orders ahead but won't taste test the drink when you're feeling kinda funny....check please! And can I get a refund for the "friend" ie: my life back?
Ordering your own drinks is a great habit, not just at a bar
Jessica definitely did it. Although there was no hard evidence, everything was suspect. Ordering drinks way before her friends arrived, checking out the cameras, putting the shopping bags on the table to hide what she was doing in which the bags just contained soap (which is a strange choice and cheap gift to give friends you haven't seen in a long time, IMO), accusing the restaurant of putting something in the drink, and then her weird behavior during the trial. She wasn't even saddened by her friend dying and just kept laughing and smiling. On top of that, although she was apparently wealthy, she had a troubling life with multiple suicide attempts and her ex-boyfriend put a restraining order against her.
with cut CCTV ?
I agree with everything except soap. If you buy fancy perfumed soap that’s an ideal gift because it’s something they can use and use up (if you’re like me your friends don’t need more junk). Now if it was some Irish spring then that’s different.
why girls need to be careful of the "ugly girl" in their friend group. she might just snap. this happens enough times for it to be a real concern
😅 Oh yeah and you forgot the homicidal threats she made to those women along with her reckless car crash into an old folks home 🏡 😳as a "suicide" attempt 🤯 ... This chick was capable of anything evil.
@@cagneybillingsley2165
Thank you for mentioning that.
Opportunities to use *spéciale ingreduents* abound these days to do the deed eadily.
Listening to Dr Grande makes my work day bearable 🙏🏼
Yah, hearing about friends murdering friends with cyinide laced coffee is so comforting and reassuring lol
You should try to re-evaluate this case, and now this case is being widely discussed in various media in Indonesia after the documentary film was released on Netflix..
I have watched Jessica Wongso case on other non-English documentaries and many have concluded that she is guilty of murder. Based on her background, I personally believe she killed her friend out of jealousy.
The insurance behind? Jes might have been a Victim herself as she might have been rewarded /asked to kill M?? She was just a tool perhaps as She did behave erratically?? viz confused as she had not intended to do the killing but was forced to do and then felt confused/mad having killed a friend??
What is the precise evidence?you claimed her too soon as an imposter. You should watch the documentary and you can speak afterwards
@@ericdarmawan9504exactly
100% correct!!!
Are you absolutely sure she is guilty? that it is beyond all reasonable doubt? That there's zero chance she's innocent?
Be careful who you condemn. A special place in hell is reserved for those who unjustly punished an innocent.
I was in indonesia in late 70s, knew the parodoxes. Just imagine, a deputy Minister of law prof Edy became an expert witness for persecutors as legistative law deputy minister, directly or indirectly he could influence all 15 judges invovled in listening the case from provicial to supreme court. This is a parodox where a legistative minister ( superior to supreme judges) and judiciary are on a same platform. The witness who is also Deputy Law Minister can transfer any 15judges to remote Province like Papua or other form of penalty if they dont dance to the music the Law minister of indonesia become a star witness .
This is odd. The minister not agriculure or economic should excuse himself from becoming star expert witness or get involved with case.
Indonesia judiciary is so peculiar, a Law Deputy minister can appear before 3-15 judges who are in heirarchy are under his direcr or indirect command. It was a mistrial from the beginning.
The deputy Law minister todate is still offering public comment on the case, without realising he is the loughing stock of the world as indonesians on average could not find the Deputy Law Minister involving in court case as an anomaly in justice.
Doc, I would recommend the case of Hannah Upp, she has disappeared three times in her lifetime due to an alleged, rare amnesia disorder - dissociative fugue. She is currently missing and was last seen in 2017.
It is a very strange story and I would love to hear your opinion on it.
just learned about this, now i agree!
problem it's TITO CARNIVAN become Chief Police
This is by far the most intelligent narrative I’ve ever came across in regards to this case.
Dr.Grande, could you talk about the rape accusation of Kris Wu, a Canadian Chinese singer? The event has been the headline for one month in China because of its dramatic development and seems to be escalating, with more Chinese celebrities getting involved. Thanks.
yes!! that situation is so wild i keep seeing updates on it like every few days
i've been vaguely following Kris for 8 years now as i'm a fan of some related chinese artists, and he's had similar allegations popping up every now and then for years, so when Du Meizhu came out with her story, i had no problem believing her. it's not looking good for Kris
@@小鹿-p8f I can't believe I never heard about the past accusations🤦♀️
Was these news only known/published on Chinese websites and such? Or was it known everywhere and I just didn't notice?
"Lethal dose of bullets." Classic Grande. Dr. Grande, please consider looking at the case of Dr. Christopher Duntsch. His case appears to be unique as the I don't believe a single contributing factor accounts for his crimes (narcissism, drug use, psychopathy, insufficient training, etc). It's more like the perfect storm of factors.
YES to Christopher Duntsch! I read an excellent in depth article in on Dentsch, I think in Atlantic Monthly. This guy is both inept and a total psychopath.
Let's get the popcorn out.......
I remembered watching her trial in national television, she was so calm,, the real silent killer
Please don’t blame her in one side. We still finding who is the first leader of this case. It seems like media is highlighting Jessica that she was the imposter. Imagine you were in Jessica’s situation, what should you do?
I like that you stick to your guns. Always an interesting view on day to day-news
Congratulations on 800k subscribers 💥 i appreciate your videos very much! Thank you for all your hard work!
Lesson of the day: Never drink from a straw that's missing the little paper thingie.
I think Dr. Grande came up with a new rap lyric.
“I emptied my gat and gave them fools a full dose”.
Dr Grande,
You have such a strong work ethic. The volume of content is so heavy, I really don’t know how you do it. I work hard, but you top the list for long videos with an abundance of detail. I really can’t see how you do it.
Oh Dr. G..."No employee of the year award was headed Jessica's way." Priceless.
I watched the Netflix documentary. The investigators in the case were inept and Indonesia's legal system is terrible. While there are many reasons I also feel that Jessica was, in fact, guilty of poisoning Mirna, there was never actually any hard evidence entered at trial that proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Jessica was guilty. Honestly though, from a purely emotional perspective - who stares at their friend with indifference while their friend is convulsing and dying before their eyes and then after being arrested for a crime she didn't commit is seen smiling and giggling at the camera.
😱😱😱 you analysing my country's case just brinngs my feelings closer to you😩🙏🏿
I thought cyanide poisonings were a thing of the past. How do you even get cyanide these days? Asking for a friend...
Find it at Walmart in the potpourri isle.
🙃🍯😁🤣🤣🤣🤣
The many illegal miners in Indonesia use it to extract gold from ore
Lame and reported
@@RTBZA wow, i had no idea. will read more about this, thanks!
😄😄😄
Apparently no cyanide was found in her stomach by the original forensic doctor . And her father did not want a full autopsy.
1) Funnily , they couldn’t trace or track if she bought any cyanide from anywhere .
2) Mirna was blue ( suggesting lack of oxygen probably due to a stroke ) .. but the same picture was photoshopped to make her look red ( in cyanide )
3) Mirna’s father mentioned that ‘ I hope nobody think so did it ‘ ( a few times ) .. really strange for a father . This girl had 4.5 mil in life insurance not too long before and her father wa st he beneficiary
4) we all have had a few instances where we fell out with certain ppl . If we gathered those ppl and brought them to court like in Jessica’s case , we’d all be sitting in jail … for what could’ve been
5) the victim was on a diet … ate only an apple ( apple seeds have small doses of cyanide ) and the said coffee .
6) the father comes up ( years later ) with a video showing a hand putting something in a cup of coffee . An expert viewed the video and said it was fake .
7) one of the police officers is now in jails for murder. He’s serving a life sentence . His boss or mentor was the said officer .. monkey see.. monkey do.
8) I might put the gifts I bought for my friends I haven’t seen in years on the table as opposed to putting them on the floor .
9) lastly , we all grief differently…
hence I really don’t think there was enough proof for her harsh sentence. .. just my thoughts
I agree
@@skimmilk1039 You clearly didn't watch the full conference. There are 3 doctors involved in this case and 2 toxicologists. The doctor already stated that it's not a must to appear cherry red when the person dies of cyanide. Sometimes they can appear blue due to a lack of oxygen. Cyanide can make you short of breath. Hence, Mirna's face is turning blue. But her face turned blue only 72 hours after her death, which is normal. Also, the doctor found Mirna's throat and stomach corrosive, which will never happen in our normal bodies. I've been on a diet for many years, and I have severe GERD and Gastritis. I still consume coffee every day. But I never experienced any poisoning. I salute Mirna's dad for doing the best that he can to bring justice. He even paid a huge amount of money just to find people in Australia to check on Jessica's criminal background and found that Jessica has 14 criminal cases there! She even threatened her boss, her BF (Patrick), that she would poison herself, and she said she knew the right doses to kill someone!! She hit the retirement home with her own car and was rushed to the hospital shortly after. She was even sent to psychiatry to get treatment for her mental illness. The most obvious is: if the barista wanted to poison Mirna, how the hell can he know that the coffee is for Mirna? Jessica did not mention to the barista that she was ordering for Mirna. This is enough information for you to swallow and change your narrative.
Congratulations on not making even one valuable point and clearly knowing absolutely nothing about the case details.
Thank you Dr.Grande for sharing. This is sad.. she was a beautiful woman. RIP
I agree that the Indonesian justice system could use an overhaul. Had this happened in the US, reasonable doubt would have been enough to acquit her. I, too, feel that she was guilty.
Thank you for covering cases all around the world! It is interesting to see how other criminal cases are adjudicated in other cultures. 🤔😊
EDIT: ONE DAY after hitting the 800,000 mark, you've got 801,000 subs!
Yes! An international audience! It is so good that there is cross-border interest as well as cases from other countries! Imo this is now a global (as opposed to a nationalistic) entity!🌍🌎🌏🌐
@@bthomson it is 💯 a global channel! People from all over the planet watch Dr. Grande. They leave comments and replies which start all kinds of conversations and share opinions and perspectives that may differ from yours. Of course, we all like the humor!😅
Universal!
you know what's common in indonesia?
Some guy was accused of stealing a stereo from a mushala... The mob got so riled up they beat up the poor guy until he's dead.
Then... turned out they got the wrong person! It wasn't that guy who's the thief. But ... well... the poor guy's already dead now.
No one took responsibility. No shame at all.
That's the kind of people we have in indonesia. Too quick to judge... to quick to anger... too harsh in punishment... but often get it all wrong... in their quest to correct injustice, they end up creating even more injustice, ... and yet they never once stop to think perhaps they are the problem.
It's same thing too back then when this case was hot... in 2016? The people just got so convinced already about Jessica being guilty, they demanded her blood. The police saw a chance to win popularity and promotion. And so they gave the public what they want.
I believe a special place in hell is reserved for those who unjustly punish an innocent. It's going to be most crowded there.
this case becoming popular again in indonesia because of netflix documentary. no one talk about how the forensic doctor explaining so many times that no cyanide found in victim's body.
just discovered your channel, and my gosh, it is awesome. (just subscribed)
Not to be mean but have you been under a rock! Anyway welcome to the very best RUclips has to offer!
Kecurigaan adalah wajar, dan hak bagi setiap individu, namun hukum adalah lain. Apabila batas kemampuan hanya kecurigaan maka akan timbul 1000 kecurigaan.
The Indonesian justice system is terrifying. No autopsy, no proven cause of death, yet they prosecuted a woman. This isn't a flawed criminal justice system, this is no criminal justice system. I'm so accustomed to living in a society based on a constitution of mostly unbiased (working on that point) enforcing of laws with protections for our citizens, this story is totally foreign to me. I'm naive, I know, but it's amazing civilized countries are run this way.
It's a weak case. You can easily bribe them to get what you want. I strongly believe Jessica is 100% innocent.
you know what's common in indonesia?
Some guy was accused of stealing a stereo from a mushala... The mob got so riled up they beat up the poor guy until he's dead.
Then... turned out they got the wrong person! It wasn't that guy who's the thief. But ... well... the poor guy's already dead now.
No one took responsibility. No shame at all.
That's the kind of people we have in indonesia. Too quick to judge... to quick to anger... too harsh in punishment... but often get it all wrong... in their quest to correct injustice, they end up creating even more injustice, ... and yet they never once stop to think perhaps they are the problem.
It's same thing too back then when this case was hot... in 2016? The people just got so convinced already about Jessica being guilty, they demanded her blood. The police saw a chance to win popularity and promotion. And so they gave the public what they want.
I believe a special place in hell is reserved for those who unjustly punish an innocent. It's going to be most crowded there.
Thank you for the analysis. This was far more informative than the Netflix documentary. I have hard time seeing that Jessica would have been found guilty in a western country based on the lack of evidence and the undetermined cause of death. The activity of the police was also suspicious. People might have been paid off to say certain things, including the cafe staff.
I just watched another video about this. Such a sad case 😔 Not taking a break at all, I see Dr. Grande!
This case got huge coverage in my country and became the topic of everyday conversations. There were memes and jokes about coffee, cyanide and Jessica. The trials were live on tv with reporters and lawyers commenting on the case. I was so sick of the news so I didn't catch up with the details.
Your justice system is a joke. I remember what they did to Schapelle Corby. Also it is said that no one who ever comes before that court accused of smuggling drugs goes free.
Watch the video of her in the restaurant before her friends arrived. Really suspicious and strange.
I agree, just saw it on Coffeehouse Crime
According to the Netflix documentary her father spoke to the cafe staff and could have possibly helped them create a story that was consistent to prove Jessica’s guilt…when asked what they spoke to him about they refused to say…
Did he say "a LETHAL DOSE OF BULLETS!" 🤣🤣😂😂 thank you for the laugh Dr. Grande!
It’s like the saying goes, keep your enemies close but keep your friends closer.
Isn't it the other way around?
Hey doc, I’m from Indonesia, I agree with your speculations. Love your channel 😀.
Ordering for her friends almost an hour before and telling the manager, "what did you put to her drink?" makes it obvious that she did something 😬
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Such cynicism.
Mirna immediately responded how awful the coffee was after sipping it, she said it over and over, even was asking Jessica to get her mineral water immediately after that. Jessica went to the bar to order mineral water, and when she got back to the seats not long after that just few seconds Mirna collapsed. So I think it was very relevant asking what was in the coffee..
There was a msg from Mirna in their group chat that she will be at the caffee at 4pm. Thats why she ordered it. But it ended Mirna came late. So late. Without a msg on their group chat about why.
Mirna said she would arrived at 4ish but the she came late, the coffee ordered around 4.30 and mirna came a hour later
She was recorded casing the restaurant, walking around looking for cameras, repeatedly rearranging bags to block drinks and finding least observable seat. Unfortunately for her, she missed the camera pointed at her. She ordered signature drinks long before friends' arrival in a place known for performance of making the drinks. I encourage people to watch videos of what she was doing. This get-together was so surprising and uncomfortable, that the victim brought another friend along just in case - Perpetrator behaved with forced intimacy toward the victim including roaming around the other's private quarters in the family's house on a rare visit. Families were very wealthy and that behavior was shocking. Jessica's gathering was a surprise because their last meeting was so bitter - she literally stormed out of a lunch with the victim and her fiance without a word and was furious that she didn't get invited to the wedding, finding out after the fact. There is A LOT more. When she arrived in court it was if she was a starlet to an interview. Totally narcissistic and deranged.
Bottom line - she was pathological liar, delusional, resentful and bitter out for revenge. The fake "gifts" were just 'Bath & Bodyworks' body wash, i.e. a cheap popular stockjng-stuffer/random item for women her age and wealth. Both women were wealthy, so it seems odd for that reason. No doubt that she was guilty.
oh you should watch the victim's dad interviews first so we can discuss the "pathological liar, delusional, resentful and bitter out for revenge" part LOL
An assumption without proof is a Lie and there is nothing more disgusting than people who trying to force other people to believe their lies.
So disgusting liar, are you one of them? . 💩
It's actually not that long if we consider the fact that the victim said she would arrived at 4ish and J order the drink around 4.30. But the victim came around 5.17
Good observation
@@BrightSunshine-rp7iyI think Jessica must have known if the others will come late,she lied them if she was already in the Olivier Cafe
Been followed this case on TV for months and here I satisfied watching your 15 mins video.
Keep them coming Dr G. Love your work, enjoy your videos every day!
I just watched this case on Coffeehouse Crime, wasnt expecting to the psychology part of it today, Thank you for covering this
She didn't just put the bags on the table, she actually moved them in front of her to block anyone from seeing what she was doing!
Where and When Jesicca buy CN no one can cover up , all about poltican dececion because Tito Karnivan already become Chief Police
she's clearly guilty, netflix makes it just confusing people. People who watch the full trial will understand better that she is truly guilty
Fascinating case and your analysis was excellent!
It would be lovely if you could cover this one on your podcast. I just feel there so much to say about it...
Thank you so much Dr. Grande, for another very interesting review.❤️
Good morning Dr Grande! Thanks for the early video 🙌😄
I’ll take a Grande iced coffee, no cyanide
Good one ! 🤣🤣
im indonesian and we all people in Indonesia Support for Jessica Kumolo Wongso FREE. . we fight for free Jessica Wongso.
How awful 😞 Why do people go to such extent ?I try to understand but I just can't rap my head around such evil.Thank you Dr Grande ❤️
Powerful closer right there!! "The right result was obtained in the worst possible way"
To those who insisting Jessica was guilty, please explain, why the family refused an autopsy while it's compulsory when the death was suspicious, where was the ACTUAL recorder, why the forensic expertise opinion were dismissed, instead relying on the opinion of the body language expert? Please explain why there wasn't any trace of cyanide in the vomit?
Korban netplik 😅
@@rajendraathar474 : why not you try to explain that then?
No autopsy doesn't mean Jessica is not guilty. Also on the contrary. You only look from 1 single aspect.
@@richardofutuasella3453 : is it beyond all doubt though? is it 100% guaranteed that she is guilty?
The only one who can explain is myrna's family. But it's their right to give permission of autopsy or not. It's their personal matter, as it's related to the deceases body. It's not unheard of for family refusing for autopsy.
This alone doesn't prove that Jessica wasn't guilty. Nor a reason good enough to suspect that Jessica wasn't guilty, compared ti some other odd factors happened around the case.
However, why do you seem to insist that Jessica wasn't guilty? How do you relate with her? 🤔
Well explained hindsight on both side,,very detailed analysis that keeps the reader thinking "yeah,right"..
I still do believe jessica is guilty. Although, mirna's father is indeed a bit creepy and a narcissist in a sense, probably an upper class behavior. Jessica was way too calm during every devastating court process as if it wasn't her 1st time having these kinda 'issue'
Jessica Wongso is innocent but is a suspect in prison for 20 years. Today it's going viral and wants to be brought to the public again
What this to do with mirna's father?
@@luvangel8149Life Insurance Money in a Huge Sum.
Terus apa hubunganya sikap ayahnyairna dengan anaknya yang kalem saat persidangan? Mau mengiring opini?
@@jasonlemuel5078terlalu terlambat untuk menggiring opini, sidangnya udah lama
Fun fact, there's is no Cynide in Mirna's body after she's dead and "not" doing autopsy where it's very important for police evidence but taking a piece of body sample for check up.. so, what happendd?
Ini lagi koplak, lu tau drmn tubuh mirna g ada sianida sdgkan disana g ada otopsi, gmn kalo memang ada sianida di liver? Gmn kalo memang ada di ginjal? Krn sampel lambungnya aja ada sianidanya bahkan setelah dia meninggal, kok bisa2 lh bilang di tubuh ga ada Sianida sdgkan otopsi nya aja g dilakuin
Justru itu pentingnya otopsi ya si paling pinter, kenapa jg pihak kepolisian minta surat ijin otopsi ke pihak forensik tp gak ada otopsi? Hrsnya ga ada otopsi ya ga ada kasus lah, ada pun jg cuma ambil sampel dan hasilnya 0,2mg ga mematikan
Lu sendiri komen jg ga psti ada apa gak klo ada jg dmana brarti disini prosedur penanganan kasusnya udh dipertanyakan.. dimana mana ya ada kasus melibatkan org mati ya hrs otopsi dlu sesuai undang" jd penyebabnya apa bisa di teliti ga asal vonis orang
@@dvrama lha lu juga koplak orang liver g dicek kok pasti bilang ga ada 🤣🤣 ,, itu dilambung kan ada sianida bambang plus kerongkongan korosif ga mgkin cuma minum kopi tu kerongkongan lu rusak 🤣🤣 dr Jaya saksi ahli J cuma nyebutin bukan krna sianida tapi krn zat lain kalopun itu di racun,, lucu ente cuma ikut2an doang g tau cerita lengkapnya
@@rantingrizal8259gerd kronis dampaknya juga erosif, 3 hari kemudian menjadi korosif , jangan ngelawak bang, ini media luar !
There are so many unanswered questions in this case. To me it appears circumstantial. No real investigation appears to have been done. This one is plain weird. But the plants are in order on the side diagonally from the shortest to the biggest. The 2 in the center are huddling, they might be plotting to accidentally shove the littlest one off the table😎
I like to think the middle plants are in love and cuddling each other 🥰
Like I said before a pure Rorschach test of emotional outlook!
Upper class and police corruption is normal in Indonesia. Someone gained a lot with that case
I can’t wait for an update on the Kristin Smart case!
In the netflix there is another analysis about jessica case
ICE COLD documented by netflix
Punished someone only by her personality not by the evidence is just ridiculous