Do O-Rings Really Leak Over Time? Testing PROPRESS
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2022
- Can PROPRESS fittings work without o-rings? What makes the seal? Is PROPRESS better than a typical soldered connection? Do orings leak? See the REAL ANSWER for yourself!
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what would happen is you re-press the fiting again after it leaks??
Electrician, here. I'm still fighting with brothers who refuse to accept WAGO connectors...decades on.
Some people are just not willing to accept reality. Good video! Thanks.
Heh. Same folks who insist that cordless tools are a fad. "You'll have to pry my Mag 77 worm drive out of my cold, dead hands!"
@@SplashJohnwe live in a temporary society. Old tools last forever, new tools last a few years.
I DO HVAC AND WAGO IS THE WAY TO GO, DOING CONTROL WIRING SO MANY TIMES I WOULD HAVE ONE LOOSE WIRE IN NUT, NOT NO MORE. PLUS, IT IS JUST A CLEANER JOB
I've had several WAGO's that failed due to user error I guess. When the wire appears to be in, all the way, I've has them loose connectivity. After a few customer complaints (sometimes they have to loosen the connection an reasseble because of a specific installation) and one Customer who's wago nearly melted; I bailed on them altogether. To much at stake for the saings over a traditional din rail mounted distrobution block method.
I'm rerouting wiring in a 50 year old house.
Back then they mostly used crimps; and they are NOT coming apart.
Even in places where they did use wire nuts, they are still staying put.
I do run into problems with WAGO when the wires are pushed back in the box, and the lever got hung up on something, and the lever got flipped.
I use WAGO where I anticipate changes.
And in places like in the ceiling, where the wiring is permanent, I trust wire nuts more.
Also in high current, I use wire nut.
When I use WAGO, i tape the levers down.
i'm a commercial plumber and aside from a few special case scenarios here and there propress is practically all that is used any more for copper. It does work well. Usually if you have a leak its from an instillation error where the pipe pulls out before you press it or something. The down side of it is that when you press it, it tends to pull in any direction it wants and fucks up your square, plumb, and level
Thanks, I've been thinking about adding a press tool, and will definitely consider that down side.
@@williardbillmore5713 It is about getting more done and working smarter. Are you really telling us that soldering a whole complex is faster than prepressing it. You can wrap up jobs a ton faster and move on to the next one and most cases if a leak happens and you followed everything, you can pin on the manufacturer. Not going to work with Soldering. I do however believe Soldering is an art and maybe people do it wrong or partially right. I have seen so many plumbers skip steps such as deburring, cleaning, wiping flux because they just want to move to the next thing
@@williardbillmore5713pro press is the new standard you geezer
@@williardbillmore5713 propress has been around for decades. It's not new. It's been used in Europe since the 80s and the USA since the 90s.
Propress is rated for 50 years while sweating copper is rated from 5-60 years. The huge change comes from the fact you are using Flux. Flux eats away at the material. You can clean the outside of the pipe (which i usually find green from previous plumbers) but you can't clean the interior of the pipe & fittings.
Furthermore, the o-ring in press & push to fit, are under pressure but not under running water, as the ring is between the pipe and fitting. It is not like a seal in a moving/working part like faucets.
The ring is compressed and flattened around the pipe and only a small portion of it is actually wet. Nearly 80% of the ring never gets water. For it to degrade, it would have to eat thru the entire ring, including the parts that have never touched water.
Simply put, you are talking down a system you know little about. I find many plumbers do the same for everything. Go back a few decades and you'll find plumbers talking bad about copper, only trusting galvanized pipe.
@@williardbillmore5713maybe if you’re too lazy to watch this very video that proves you wrong, you shouldn’t be a plumber
I would like to see you recreate the test of you beating on the pipe, but with the o-rings still in place. To prove they are actually working as a backup.
That's a good idea, I am still in shock of these results. I will have to work on a followup with some endurance tests.
My guess is beating a soldered pipe will eventually cause leaks. Fortunately, most of us don’t have to worry about bars to our pipes in the walls.
@@tb2324 no, but sometimes pipes in walls move and bang around due to the water pressure. That can be a problem 5 years later. Still impressive though
@@SilverCymbal Water hammer pushes and pulls the pipe, gravity twists joints in some installations. Fun experiment but the o-ring is still necessary and is still the point of failure. Chlorinated (or worse chlorinated with fluoridic acid) water destroys o-rings in a few years in some parts of the country.
I just watched video and came to comments to ask the same thing. Beat on it with the O-Rings installed.
There are a few things you can do to ensure an even stronger connection as well. Using a deburring tool on the inside, and outside of the pipe, properly sanding the ends of the pipe that will be joined, and ALWAYS testing the depth of the fitting on the pipe.
The only time I’ve seen a pro press fitting fail was due to improper installation. There is a reason Viega warranties these things for 50 years with those caveats.
I work in the research and scientific field in Facility Management, and can say with confidence that the O-Ring is definitely necessary for applications where pneumatics and vacuum are involved. We have Propressed ball valves that wiggle on the pipe after repeated use from students and researchers over the years- Especially in our laser cutting room and chemical labs. The only thing keeping compressed lab air in the lines, or keeping our systems under vacuum at that point in time is the O-ring.
Buddy, change the pipes. It always amazes me to see such intelligent people in other fields say such incredibly silly things about construction.
I can guarantee you that o-ring is not holding pressure. If you see a pressurized line start to fail, Stop using it and change it. Obviously propressed isn't the right choice in your situation.
Pro press is not meant for vacuum or valves that are going to be used on and off constantly also pro press holds air and gases just like water because they are both fluids but that being said not all fluids can be held by pro press once again the right tool for the right application and I say this with 25 years of experience in working on vacuum systems and freeze dryers and many other types of systems from steam to chiller.
Wow, I'm shocked that it was sealed without the o-rings! Thanks for the test.
Metal expands and contracts based on the water temp so I would still use the O-rings as a safety. Nevertheless, this was still is impressive.
Expansion should be little concern as long as all components are the same material. Yes one end will warm and cool slightly faster and copper has a high expansion rate but my non-expert opinion would be not enough to have an effect. I'm not a plumber but i am a machinist so metal is my life. During machining processes i deal with heat all the time and sometimes use it to my advantage.
@@95dodgev10 I've had threaded connections have no leaks until they were heated with hot water.
It’s still crimped together. Meaning some of the copper was removed from the fitting during the press. It is smushed together much like a compression fittings’ ferrule is mashed into the pipe. Expansion from temperature isn’t going to separate the fitting from the pipe is literally smashed together like gum. The goal with plumbing is to make the pipe and fitting as one singular piece as possible. Just like PVC, it’s not glued into the joint it is a chemical weld that bonds the two pieces together into one piece. Or else all of the fittings will leak. The goal is to make the spaces close enough that water can’t slip through or to bond it into one piece
I mean heck on water HEATERS we thread brass female adapters onto the MIP threads coming off of the water heater. And it cools and heats. No leaks
@@drooplug Nice thought. Yeah I would like to see this test redone with HOT water, COLD water cycling and longevity test. Just because something works nice now does not mean it will work like that in the long term.
Great followup! The original vid was timely for me since I had just seen them for the first time. I've done some sweating since then, only because I already had the fittings, but these have been on my mind for a while. Thanks (and we miss you on the South Shore)
I use propress fittings often as part of my job, from small diameters of pipe to much larger diameters that require the bigger gun. I can also solder and depending on the situation may have to opt for one over the other. I can't understand the disdain some folks have for propress. Both have their pros and cons, but the fact is that both work. I have a sneaking suspicion that many who are worried about a propress fitting lasting for 20 years aren't reaming or cleaning their copper properly anyway. Tradesmen need to stop being scared of change lol
A properly made solder joint is always going to be better than a propress joint. The problem is that a properly made solder joint isn't that easy to make and people like to cut corners. First you have to cut and deburr the pipe. You have to clean both the pipe and the fitting well. You have to apply solder and correctly heat the fitting enough to allow the full length of the joint to wick the solder in, but not too much heat as to burn off your solder. Then applying too much solder will create little globs of solder in your pipe causing weird water turbulence reducing flow and causing pinhole leaks down the line. Oh and you have to flush the system after soldering with flux and hot work permits are required for commercial projects.
Now... once we get into some of the bigger 2" and bigger pipes that many of the properties that I work with use and you realize that getting a good solder joint on a 3" copper pipe is an absolute nightmare where you're heating the joint with two or sometimes three torches and have two people working on one joint to get enough heat in the pipe to melt the fitting and you see how a megapress tool just starts to be a necessity.
Add in the fact that propress is quicker and better for service work because it doesn't require the water to stop dripping and any idiot can do it and do it well and I prefer to spec work be done in propress when I'm asking contractors to spec out work for me. I do property management and have seen a hundreds of solder joints fail and I've never seen a propress joint have any issues.
@@dudas91 yeah I think this is good summary that highlights benefits of press fittings. soldering has it's place in my opinion, but when factoring in all the variables press fittings really tend to be the best fit for a majority of applications these days.
@@dudas91 Well said sir!! You have me wanting to go become a licensed plumber. 🤣🤣🤣
@@dudas91 This is where so many pointless arguments stem from - something being better in theory vs being better in practice.
Imma just say pro press is fine but solder and braze with
Thanks for this video. I recently had my water heater replaced and the plumber used all propress fittings which I was very skeptical about. I guess I can sleep a little better at night now. On a side note that’s a great bike stand!
Wow, excellent transparency. Nice content SS.
Excellent! Thank you for this demonstration. Very valuable information for us service plumbers.
Great experiment! Just had one installed and was skeptical!
The pipes will vibrate and move over time due to temperature changes, pressure changes, etc... The fitting will have a slightly different rate of movement and expansion or contraction which could slowly cause the leaking to occur over time if the o rings are missing. Thank you for sharing your experience!
Long term
No Bueno
I would say the temperature change inside of most houses is like 4 to 6 degrees over the entire year
@@blackwall619 I mean it’s been the standard in Europe for the last 30 years and there haven’t been many issues with it so
@@blackwall619 Always great to be taught by people from countries with lower quality construction standards (be it infrastructure or house building) on how things are done properly. (Attention, that's sarcasm). Greetings from Germany :D
Great video. Cool to see that it doesn't leak even withoug the o rings
Great test 👌! About to use this method to fix three leaking valves in my house 🏠!
Just to show how good they are. Great video!
I love your channel teaches me so much
Ok. I'll try it. Just let us know when to apply the products. Thanks for the video.
I work for a company which designs similar fittings. European market requires a test of 5000 cycles of alternating 20 and 95 degrees Celsius water under 10 bars (145 psi) of pressure. Which simulates a lifetime of ~49 years. So sure these fittings would last a while without O-ring, under these conditions.
Great vid!
I don't use pro press yet, but it's def much better than soldering in hvac. I'm watching as many videos as possible to learn about it so I can finally buy one and save time
I think the O ring does more than catch a small weeping connection. I have had propress fittings leak. Usually it's my fault. Not deburring the pipe good enough. But I have also had leaks when everything was done exactly correct. That being said I've had sweat joints that have leaked. Everyone has had that happen to them if they are being honest with themselves.
I just pressed a joint yesterday that leaked. 1 out of about 200 joints i did that day, try that with solder. When I have a leak i always like to cut the pipe as close to the fitting as i can so i can stick my finger in it and see if the joint wasnt inserted fully. i found the oring had pushed 1/2 way out the joint. It took over 30 min to form 1 drop!!!
The way you banging at the joint, it would leak even with the O rings inside. I know it is only a test and it is a good show. Thank you for sharing.
That's a great test, thanks! I've been watching for a deal on a propress tool.. $$$$!
Bahahaha. They are only getting more expensive.
The metal hitting put a noticeable bend in piping. Of course it will leak at that point. To me that is extreme.
wow. amazing. always had the impression these propress fittings will leak overtime due to the oring. Armed with this knowledge, hopefully the demand for these will increase and will become cheaper overtime.
Business has us coming and going. .....oh demand is low so prices are up.... oh demand is high so prices are high..
50 year warranty from manufacturers defects with Viega propress. What's the warranty on a solder fitting?
Watch out Project Farm here comes Silver Cymbal!!!
I wish! I have a long way to go for that. He's amazing!
You pretty good yourself!
You should do more live videos like this instead of voice overs. All of your videos are awesome just a suggestion!!
That’s impressive 👍
Good demonstration. I think there would be a lot of leaks without the o-rings, and of course the o-rings will perish, especially on hot pipes.
We did a 500 VAV box change out about 13 years ago swapping out existing boxes with new, all had Hot water heat connections. It was an occupied medical building so it was decided to use Propress fittings so as not to have to get burn permits and not have to use any torches in the ceilings. It went well the guys missed pressing a few here and there which we found testing with air. As far as I know the system is still holding together. Only draw back is the tool is large and hard to get in tight areas. Also the Tool is expensive and fittings are real expensive.
That is absolutely hilarious. I love how you brought out the big iron and beat that pipe hahaha. Haters can back off. This aint no game this is A bad-ass review channel
Can you do the same banging test on a sharkbite and soldering?
More importantly, will it stand the test of time? Thanks SC 😊 you're awesome!
I live in Germany and most of the buildings at my workplace use Viega Propress for water and heating for at least 10 years. We even have them in rooms that are full with servers and ISP network gear and I haven't heard of any water leakage since I started working here in 2010.
@@Jonkree awesome! Thank you!
Awesome!
Great point about Shark Bite. Thank you
Quite interesting! Wonder how the metal to metal connection will hold up with repeated heating/cooling cycles over the years.
I was just thinking this exact same thing
Agree
I was going to ask this question too. It would presumably take a long time to test.
They are same metal so the will Heat and contract at the same rate. I don't see a reason how they will fail.
The metal to metal connection won't hold up. You definitely need the rubber O-ring.
The propress from Viega is good up to 4 inches. There were failures in these systems as recently as 5 years ago. But I would say it has become a mature technology. Viega warranties its products for 50 years. The advantages for large projects; no fire watch or hot work permits, no purging; so, you are saving time.
the most important detail to me is, did you use type L or type M copper pipe?
I think if your a professional or a home owner who was replacing all his plumbing spending a couple grand on that tool may make sense but I am to frugal for that. I replaced all my copper back in the day on my first house and to be honest when there is no water in the lines sweating pipes is really not that big of a deal. Thanks for showing us what is possible. Take care
Most plumbing stores rent the tool. I literally have a rented one in the truck right now for a repipe I'm finishing tomorrow.
You should do that same bang test with the Orings in and see what happens
Is pro press common in the states? In Canada it’s not quite mainstream. I personally love it because it lets me smoke the competition in commercial copper jobs
Heating contractors use it like crazy, it seems like every one does for the speed and considering most heating systems are removed within 30 years, there isn't any concern about potential failures, though these are designed to last for 50 years + But some plumbers use them but still not super common. Viega needs to release their patent and focus on the fitings, the tool prices ruins this for most people.
the only thing i don't like about Pro Press is that it kinda deforms the pipe, so if it's an old type M pipe, i'm just kinda iffy on it. But it is an excellent method to make joints
Also, a bunch of hot cold thermal cycling might induce a leak without the o rings.
Rubber does not last forever, at some point it does deteriorate especially when it is exposed to chlorinated water flow. In these fittings the o rings should last quite some time.
All these new plumbing materials and methods are great.
How do propress fittings hold up in freezing conditions?
Any advice on how to get rid of grass and weeds growing in between interlocking bricks.
Straight white vinegar
In aircraft maintenance, we use permaswages to repair rigid hydraulic lines. They follow the same principle. They don't O-rings. They are good for over 4000psi.
They dont follow the same principle, swaging is completely different to just compressing metal on metal. Swaging cuts into the metal to produce a seal, thats what they do to copper pipes when they run gas through them.
I doubt they ever intended for the crimp to make the seal without the o-ring, but it's certainly a testament to the quality of the crimp.
If you going to say that the rubber breaks down over time and starts to leak I believe that. However we have a hydrojet at the shop and a copper water supply line put together with ProPress fittings running across the wall to the back door. This entire line has been here for 10 years and the only part of it that's leaking is the ball valve that we use to turn on and shut off when we're filling the hydrojet or done filling the hydrojet
Now try to do the smash part of the experiment with the O rings in.
Pro press is an amazing system, I wonder if would be suitable for gas piping, as in HVAC for air conditioning purposes, if so or if they make a version for that purpose it would also be a game changer.
got mega press for black iron or grazine pipe, for hvac have different company make those
ZoomLock!!!
Look it up
fuel gas, and many other gases Viega has IPS MegaPress fittings
Love the content brother! What brand and model vise are you using to hold the test up?
Thank you, that's a bike repair vise: amzn.to/3RAxtiF
Incredible that there was no leak, although that press must cost a fortune.
The manual press is amzn.to/3qbPCI4 not bad. The power tool is $2k but if you have a plumber install two valves in yoru house nowadays you might spend 1/2 that. So one trick is if you have LOT to do, buy the power tool, use it for the job, sell it later and you will get back 80% of what you paid. They are very desirable used.
Time savings equal labor savings, and no one thinks about the cost of consumables, solder, flux, gas, etc etc. A press tool now gets over 100,000 presses before needing to be adjusted, no matter if it is pressing 1/2" or 4". How much solder would you have to buy, or brazing rods, for 100,000 4" presses?????
@@robpendola5888the answer 100,000 4” couplings is 400,000 inches of solder. Theres 27 feet in a roll of solder approximately so just over 33,000 rolls of solder for 100,000 4” soldered couplings. Just an fyi nobody solders that much 4”. A better comparison is to take an average pipe size which is 3/4” and use that. Which would be 75,000 inches of solder at 27 feet per roll equals just over 231 rolls of solder at an average of 30 bucks a roll… that prices you out at about 6,900 bucks. But heres the kicker…. You would have to solder like 40,000 joints before the tool paid for itself. The average on call repair plumber does a hand full of joints on average a day at best. But lets say 4 a day on average. So 20 joints a weeks on average which is 1,000 joints a year… which would mean it would take 40 years for the tool to pay itself off. Where the tool makes sense is in large scale new construction with inexperienced staff. For the average plumber it doesnt really pay to invest in propress unless its something you really want and you can charge the extra costs in your area to make back the cost of the tool. Just sayin.
@@robpendola5888you could do 90 to 120 freeze break repairs on one roll of solder approximately. I mean if im crunching numbers…. I would say that a freeze break repair uses at cost 5 to 7 dollars worth of materials. Thats the cost of propress coupling… so both soldering and propress both price out for the customer right about the same with it being only maybe a couple bucks more for propress. Easier and cheaper to buy solder cup fitting in bulk and stock on the truck though, just my opinion.
@@-Nobody-1it saves time, and when you work for a company that provides the ProPress tool it helps both the company and me. It saves my time as a plumbing service tech, you can’t sweat joints as fast as just inserting copper into the fitting and pressing it. I did a job at a propane company, they had a pinhole in their water main. I just killed the breaker for the well pump drained down the pressure tank, cut a section out and pressed together a new section. No hot work permits, no pretending to pay attention to the safety guy ramble on for 15 minutes about the dangers of fire before I can even grab my torch out of the van even though they had a gas fired hot water and guys were smoking outside the front office that is 100 feet from the giant tanks. it was a propane company so they had a safety guy on site. Every tool I used he wanted to go over a safety list or some shit. If I even mentioned anything about a torch I’d be there all day
Where do pipes get beaten with a stick in the wall?
Should have done 150psi to simulate a failed pressure regulator which happens more often than not.
It's not expensive, the price is very close to solder fittings. I did however buy the rigid tool for $4000.00 because I have 3 homes that I am working on. It will save me in the long run.
Van you do a test and still sweet it and see if the plastic ring will melt
Oh and one other thing I forgot to mention use it on a circulator pump what you just did and be surprised to see what happens. The reason I know is because I have had several fittings leaking on me because of seal rubber were broken when I was using the clamper.
Then you aren't sanding the pipe well enough and are cutting or dislodging the ring. The fittings do not leak if installed correctly.
It should be noted that some propress fittings rotate slightly even after they are pressed. The ones that rotate probably need the o-ring. Such as street fittings and female adapters.
What is the difference between M contour and V contour? I'm about to buy a press but don't know which contour should I buy M or V? I will use the press on steel water pipe to radiators for 45° connector. Thanks for reply 😍💪
They are supposed to be rated the same. But I've never even seen the M ones.
The most common fittings & tools are V.
I would ask your plumbing supplier what they carry more of. Fitting availability in your area should be the largest factor to consider.
Not true. I always look to make sure the ring is fine, but last summer I had a doctor crawling down my back to hurry with a repair because they can’t operate the office without hot water in exam rooms. So I pressed a fitting, turned in the water and the fitting leaked. I had never had that happen so I was surprised. I cut it out and finished the repair. Back at the shop I split the fitting to find there was no o ring in it. Which explained the ring I later found on my passenger seat 🤨 but long story left long, they don’t seal without the ring. And solder as much as you can. I love press 1. To avoid hot permits 2. For speed 3. Final connection to avoid the annoyance of being set up and having a drip ruin everything. Soldering is cheaper, and some will say more dependable (as long as you clean your flux off afterwards)
As someone who crimps a lot of stuff every single day. This might look impressive but with repeated hot/cold cycles the metal will move and there will be a leak without the o rings because theres no interlocking going in between the two metal surfaces its just being held in by the inital crimp, thats why the o-rings are there to actually seal during movement. O-rings are rubber and rubber degrades over time so this fitting will eventually fail, which isn't a problem with most other applications of o-rings since you can usually replace them but these are not replaceable. Brazing is much better because it actually bonds the two metal surfaces together, brazing holds up to 70 000 psi!
Exactly! Although soo many are looking for a quick fix, a no-brainer, a no-experience required tool, or are just lazy! When I was young I was taught that all rubber will degrade and now as an adult working as a maintenance technician I can tell you that all rubber seals will fail and with plumbing a connection that is meant to be leak free "forever", not just 5-20 years then why take risks?
For a homeowner I think it's ok to take a shortcut such as pro-press or sharkbite. But any professional should be thinking of longevity not look smart by completing a job crazy quick.
I wonder how many plumbers out there mainly use compression fittings and have anxiety of when they all start to fail! lol
For anyone looking for a quick plumbing method should use Pex pipe which is plastic not rubber and has no rubber seals.
@@mrdan2898 Idk why americans dont seem to use them but Ermeto fittings for copper is the much better alternative, I personally dont like PEX because the water quality degrade over time because it doesnt cleanse waterpipe like copper does. I lived in an apartment that used PEX and by the time I moved out the water quality was shit.
@@spoofer20 Funny that you mentioned the Ermeto compression fittings. Just yesterday I was thinking that they would be a great choice over sharkbite.
I have used these compression fittings on certain situations and rarely run into issues. There's also no rubber seal that can fail, thus as long as they are installed correctly there is little chance of future failure. My workplace uses heavy cleaning chemicals that will degrade rubber seals or non-stainless connections. I aim for stainless connections and then I'm worry free.
Wow, I was always so careful to protect the O ring.... what a waste :P They are expensive though, and I don't see why the o-ring would fail, but good to know it's not needed!
wtf yes it is needed!
It most certainly IS needed unless you want your piping to look like a lawn sprinkler either immediately or after a short time.
@@nheng6913 Did you watch the video?
@@HezekiahDomowski It is needed because crimping will only hold the two metal pieces together until it experiences temperature changes over time, metal moves and with movement the crimping wont stick. Crimping wont fuse the metals together. I work at a production facility and we crimp all kinds of stuff and if we just crimped metal on metal it will leak 100% over time even at very low pressures.
It is needed, the video just proves the fittings are really extremely tight when pressed.
Its similar to a copper flare...so if the pipe is in original drawn form....it will be good,never had a problem with compression flares when done right....i use synthetic grease with my flares like a gasket,so the oring does the same thing as a gasket on press copper...
Should have also said that if you were to hit the copper with a soldered connection it would probably crack and leak as well anyway
I’ve had them leak without the o ring, bought some from the supply house that didn’t have the o rings obviously a foresight by veiga
I would keep the o rings in. Not sure about anyone else but I believe they did this not for the system but for your pro press machince. Over time and abuse your pro press gun will need recalibrated so I think they took that into consideration to account for that
What if you crimp again will It seal ? Or keep dripping ? Thanks
That is a good question, I need to put this as a follow up test
theyll release the new propress with compression fitting ferrule material for the o ring in the future.
He just gave me an idea. I can remove O-rings solder and pro-press for a lifetime trouble free connection
Problem is what happens at higher pressures or if water hammer becomes an issue?
Viega Propress is good up to 300 PSI operating pressure
this is VERY surprising NOW on need to let is set under pressure for like - A week ? NOW would have been interesting if you beat on the other joint that had the o ring too
Trying to get jaws around a 4" ProPress 90 close to the wall, and the gasket waddled off at some point. Contrary to video results, it was pissing out :(
brake lines in your car works the same way, compression fitting. Some brake lines on motorcycle works with copper gasket.
Automotive Brakes Do Not use Compression Fittings. Most use either a Double Flare or Bubble Flare fittings whuch are good for over 1000 psi. Your Homes water pressure is under 100 psi tops so these fittings are no problem.
@@jeffreycaban5107 maybe what I wanted to say was the fittings doesn't use any form of rubber seal. But thanks for that clarification.
Can you crank up the pressure until you see a leak?
They should sell them without the O-Ring, but with the ring cavity prefilled with solder. Then you could flux up that pipe, press the fitting, then hit it with a torch. Everybody's happy. 😁
maybe for extra insurance, since o-rings are out, you put a little solder on outside? then should be good to go for a long long time.
At that point you defeated the whole purpose of these fittings (faster, no flame required, no need for pipes to be dry) so you may as well skip the expensive crimper tool and use the much cheaper fittings that are made to be soldered. Also, solder wouldn't correctly penetrate this joint as tight as it is. If it's sealed well enough to contain pressurized water, there's no way solder would get through it. Just crushing a regular fitting enough to keep it in place while you solder it can cause the solder to not seal properly.
@@averyalexander2303I think that was exactly his point
You didn't mention thermal expansion or pressure spikes and poorly installed pipe fasteners meaning when the pipe moves around the wall for a long period of time.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying these things aren't great. I'm just saying the o-ring is extremely necessary just like SharkBite.
ATTN: REQUEST!
3" pro press, no O rings, on hot water and 100 psi, please!!!
This reminds me of how they thought older style electrical connectors were fine because they initially work great for 10 years or so but metal expands and contracts with temperature and over years it will no longer be a tight connection. Then you're really depending on the o ring, which won't last forever. These kinds of connections are going to not last as long as solder. But at least most of us will be retired or dead by the time things really get bad.
Virgin themselves say that the o ring is what seals the connection. Not the metal to metal contact. If you’d left it for longer before beating on it you’d eventually have had a small leak.
My problem with ProPress is not hitting it with a wrench. It's hitting with something much more solid. Water hammer. A lot of houses have water hammer issues and ProPress is commonly used as a repair to an existing system. A lot of older houses have water hammer problems. Mine is one of them I just have an addressed it yet. However, you're only a 58 PSI. Every house I've ever lived at had nearly a hundred PSI water pressure. Mix that with a few long pipes and a sprinkler solenoid that abruptly shuts off, now you get shock loads of several hundred psi. In some cases hammer can explode pipes. However i'm not talking about that extreme of a case.
Yes, it would be nice to see the test repeated at 300 PSI, with and without O-rings. Of course, water hammer can cause properly soldered joints to fail also.
gadeteez. I am genuinely interested in your comment. Is it the velocity of the water that causes the pressure surge. I think a water pressure of 100 psi that can produce three times that by shutting off the valve is always going to be at risk regardless of the fittings.
I would fit a shock arrestor in such a system.
I understand this is good. But is solder still better? If you beat a solder connection the same number of times, will it leak?
You could bend a soldered one 90deg at the fitting or hammer it flat and it probably still wouldn't leak.
@@Chris-du7hiuntrue. The flux eats away the copper & brass and hardens the silver in the solder. The copper & brass are way more malleable, while the old solder can crack, since potable water solder has nearly no soft lead in it.
Years ago I was sent to a class where they taught us about ProPress and what not. The guy leading the presentation mentioned that it would still work without the O rings and no one in the class would believe him. Fuck me he was right! Was this performed using M, L or K type? I tried scrolling through the video and could not see any lettering.
On a hot water line where you have expansion and contraction, I doubt it would be leak free without the orings for long.
I would like to see the inside of the pipe after crimping
I'd like to see the results of long term water hammering.
very impressive !!
👍
Crazy! The orings probably also keep it from wiggling out like it mightve here with the vibration from the impacts?
#silvercymbal you & #projectfarm are my two most valuable resources for DIY tips - Thank you!
Repeat the test but use air behind the water and see if it can hold 100 psi ,150 psi ,200psi to see how it does with higher numbers
Agree.
I do wonder how water hammer will affect them over time without O-rings ... water hammer can do some crazy damage
Introduce it to a temperature variation of about 120 degrees, and then about 0 degrees
Those presses are pricy. I'll keep my torch and solder for now. Can I borrow yours?
100,000 presses out of one tool even if you are pressing 4" copper. How many rolls of solder, and tank refills, flux, and acid brushes would it take for 100,000 4" copper connections?
@@robpendola5888 I only need to do 90,000.
Rent it. I have a rental in the truck right now. Most plumbing supply stores rent out.
Viega calls them "sealing rings" and distinguishes against o-rings because sealing rings can't move once pressed.
"two o-rings installed in both ends" means 4 total... what you meant to say was "one o-ring installed in each end".
The ProPress clearly isn't for consumers with that price, it's for professionals. Anyone who thinks they suck can argue with the 50 year warranty. It's faster, works in adverse situations like tight fittings or water in the line, and it's nearly idiot proof. A professional obviously should know how to solder, but this is just as good for nearly all consumer applications.
The tool can be rented.