Gloomhaven Monster AI - Rules Quiz: Questions 16-20
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- This video is the fourth in my series covering Gloomhaven Monster AI rules; this one covering monster rules concepts from questions 16-20 of the Gloomhaven Monster AI Movement Quiz, aka the Gloomhaven Rules Quiz as found on the BoardGameGeek forum (boardgamegeek..... I go ever each of the questions, and provide visual examples utilizing terrain and miniatures to explain the rules concepts for how monsters and summons activate, select focus, target enemies, and so on.
If you're new to Gloomhaven or the Monster AI rule-set as found on pages 29-31 of the main rule book, I recommend first watching the Gloomhaven Monster AI Basics video here: • Gloomhaven Monster AI ...
The first 10 questions from the quiz are covered in this video here: • Gloomhaven Monster AI ...
Questions 11-15 from the quiz are covered here: • Gloomhaven Monster AI ...
If you're interested in the terrain used to make this video, you can get more information about fully-painted terrain for your table over at Talisman Sabre Terrain: www.talismansa...
Thanks for watching! 
Игры
Thanks a lot for the good vids, regarding monster AI. You are doing a great job..
Hi from Denmark
That's my first salutation from Denmark, so thank you very much!
After playing thru JOTL, and re-taking the quiz, I hit 20/20. Now in real life gameplay I likely miss some little ones, especially when an attack cannot be made, but they move yet.
So happy to see you upload again!
Glad you like it!
Thank you very much! So helpful!
Feels like I haven't seen you in forever! Love the visuals, is the terrain all 3d printed or are some assets borrowed?
It's certainly been less frequent as of late, but I'm still here! In this particular video, the only pieces that weren't 3D printed were the following dungeon dressing pieces:
2 barrels (Dungeon Saga)
2 boxes (Hirst Arts)
1 Skull Pile (Hirst Arts)
2 Bone Piles (Toad King Castings)
Everything else was 3D printed:
Walls, floors, large bone piles, boxes, trees, bushes, rocks, etc: Talisman Sabre Terrain (designed, printed, & painted by yours truly)
1 Chest: Robagon Chest (Thingiverse)
1 Rubble Pile: Robagon Rubble Pile (Thingiverse)
You've done everyone a nice service with these, and I'd personally love it if you did more, even if concepts are repeated, because your presentations and explanations beat hell out of anything else I can find. Plus they're nice to look at and listen to. Your voice is as pro as your craft. Bet you'd get more than enough views to make up for it. I'm pretty sure at least 50% of all viewers who came to learn ended up visiting your website for more eye candy just like I did, so it's not a bad advertising strat, either. In fact, I think you should go a little harder on the advertising, because, given the subject matter and the audience, the advertising for your product is one of those rare instances in which it feels like a treat. Lots of example images presented with some flashy editing is the way to go. But then, maybe you have your hands full of business enough already. Lol, what do I know?
Thank you very much for the kind words. I do wish I had more time to dedicate to the videos, but as you mentioned, I am rather occupied with a lot of behind-the-scenes things such as designing, printing and painting the terrain that gets put on the table, so what usually ends up getting cut short is time spent on the RUclips stuff. I do hope to do another Rules Quiz video or two in the near future though.
@@LambosNerdery Good for you. You obviously deserve the business.
At this point you start to wonder how this game can get so good reviews with such unintuitive rules that need hours of videos to clarify lol.
damn. I got them all right! progress!
Nicely done!
Yeah I failed the first set horribly just getting into JoTL last week, I got all these right yay! BTW I'm going with focus and movement from GH big box as we are going there after JoTL anyway
@@mr.rogers7612 Nice job!
PSA: if you need miniatures for gloomhaven, reapers kickstarter sets are still available.
I just paid $180ish for 140+ minis.
Not shilling, I just don't want anyone to miss out.
I have used several of the Reaper Bones miniatures in several of my games, including Gloomhaven. It's a great starting place for someone wanting a lot of minis to get going in the hobby.
@@LambosNerdery they really are great. Especially for monsters like zombies, skeletons, bandits etc where they don't need to be hyper detailed like heros or bosses would.
Question 20: Why doesn't the bear stay put? Because when he is at B, his distance to his focused target would be the same.
As the crow flies, yes, the distance is the same, but since there is no path to the focused enemy straight through the monster's ally, you must count the actual distance to a location where the monster could attack the enemy, not just how far away the monster is from the enemy's hex. Therefore the monster is 4 hexes away from a place to attack from, not 2 hexes, so by moving the monster ends 2 hexes away from its focused enemy when it started at 4 hexes away, which is closer.
Question 20: doesnt the bear end up further away from his primary focus by moving through the trap to hex B? I thought he would stay put, since it's the closest path to his primary target... any explanations?
Ahhh... wait. The bear wants to reach a viable hex to attack from at all costs. So even though he ends up further from his focussed target, he will go to hex B because it is the only path towards a tasty meal... right?
There is only one space from which the monster can conduct its current attack, and that is the unoccupied space above both the Mindthief and the Scoundrel. We can't count the space in front of the Mindthief because it is an occupied hex and is therefore essentially the same as if the monster's ally (the hound figure) were an obstacle this round. Therefore the monster must find the shortest path to the space where it can attack from this round as if it had infinite movement. Tracing a path to the only acceptable space would require a movement of 4 hexes up around the hound and rock obstacles, and through the trap (This is also the only available path to that hex). With a movement of two, the monster will get as far along that route as possible this round, moving through the trap and stopping on space B. The monster started out 4 hexes away from a space from which to attack from, and ended 2 hexes away, which is closer in terms of monster attack math. Physical distance to the target (2 hexes) only comes into play when determining the tie breaker of who to focus since it is a movement of 4 hexes to attack either hero model.
@@LambosNerdery So if I could get a reply on this it would be awesome.
Regarding to question 4 from the first part of the video.
The inox guard stays put because the path through his allies is a viable but he doesn't have enough movement pts to not break the no 2 standies on 1 hex rule. But the bear goes around because he can't pass through his enemy and so that shorter path isn't allowed?
@@danilodjokic5303 Correct, the only path to a space where the bear can attack goes up around the obstacle through the trap.
I disagree on the combination of the rules you applied in this question 16 opposed to question 15. In question 15 you applied the rule of the secondary target (Tinkerer). If you would apply the rules from 15 consistently here as well, the dragon should select his secondary target from where he begins his round. Because of the distance, this should be C2. So the focus ranking from where he begins would be C4, C2 at two hex distance and , C1, C3 at 3 hex. Then he would look for the hex, where he can maximize his attack and keep focus on those two targets, which would result in hex a.
On the contrary, if you apply the rules you utilize here in question 15, the targets would be the scoundrel, brut and the summon. The difference lies in selecting a secondary target or not. Based on this answere here, the focused target in 15 would have been the scoundrel only. Than he tries to maximize, which would also result in movement to field b, but would result in targeting the summon instead, because there was no second target which he should focus on at the beginning. Overall there would be an inconsistency in your rules here because sometimes you prioritize a secondary target over maximizing and sometimes not. You could now say, that the difference is, that in the question 15, there were three targets there either way and in question 16 there was a difference in targeting 3 instead of 2.
So this results in the only consistent option in my opinion. There can only be one focus target at the beginning and no secondary target at all. Then trying to maximize attack, which will result in movement whithout loosing attack range to primary target. Then (only if more possible targets than allowed are in range) determine secondary targets to maximize based on position where he stands, which would result in attacking summon first in question 15, because of the summon first rule.
Otherwise please resolve my misconception.
bye the way...pretty awesome 3D terrain and good content to clear up most of the rules. Thumbs up!
Thanks for the compliment!
Long answer incoming:
So the only inconsistency is in my using of the term "secondary focus", which is not a real thing in the rules, but something I have said to help explain concepts. The actual rule however is applied consistently throughout. Here's the step by step breakdown for both Q15 & Q16 using the rules that demonstrates this:
Range attack with multiple targets - "If the monster is performing a ranged attack, it will only move toward a hex where it is within range to perform its best possible attack" (P.30).
"...if the monster can attack multiple targets, it will attack its focused enemy and as many other enemies as possible to maximum effect" (P.31).
Q15
1) Monster selects focused enemy (no secondary or tertiary focuses, there is always just one focused enemy, and then additional targets - that's where I created confusion). Focused enemy is the monster the figure can perform its current attack using the least amount of movement.
Tie Breakers when movement is equal:
a) Actual distance to model
b) Initiative Value
Scoundrel is focused enemy due to tie breakers above.
2) Monster seeks to perform its "best possible attack" which must still include focused enemy (Scoundrel/C1), and "as many other enemies as possible" (target 3).
"If a monster has multiple attacks, it will choose the focus of its other attacks following normal focus rules, excluding figures it is already attacking (P. 31)". -This is where I created the term secondary focus from, but that's just my own wording, it's not a real rule, and may have caused the confusion.
So from where the monster is located before moving, two other targets must be selected to attack if possible, but we have three possible additional targets to pick from, so the same tie breaker rules are applied when selecting among a group of possible targets. The closest monster from point of origin is the Tinkerer/C2 at 4 hexes (tied with focused enemy Scoundrel/C1) and is the next target of the attack, followed by Brute/C3, who is tied with the Tinkerer/C2's summon at 5 hexes but has a lower initiative.
So because this attack hit the focused enemy and two additional targets, focus is determined in order per the rules as: Scoundrel/C1, Tinkerer/C2, Brute/C3.
Q16
Same rules apply: "Monster seeks to perform its "best possible attack" which must still include focused enemy and "as many other enemies as possible" (target 3).
1) Monster selects focused enemy (Brute/C2) because of distance and then initiative value. Any attack the monster conducts must include the Brute/C2.
2) Monster seeks to attack as many other enemies as possible (target 3). Here is the main difference between Q15 and Q16. In Q15 the monster could attack three additional targets besides its focused enemy and had to choose between them all which to attack. In this question the monster can only move to one hex in order to "attack as many other enemies as possible" (3 targets), and that is to space "d." If the monster attempts to attack the Spellweaver/C3 it cannot attack a third target, and is therefore in violation of the attacking "as many other enemies as possible" rule.
This is why the monster ignores the Spellweaver/C3, because it is maximizing its attack first by finding where it can hit three targets from, and then selecting which targets to attack second based on its current location.
Sorry for the delayed response. Hopefully that helps clear up the confusion.
The difference between the two caught me off guard too. The nutshell version seems to be in how multi target enemies select their secondary targets and how area of attack enemies target their secondary targets? Does that sound right?
Thank you so much for this series! It has helped me so much! Definitely earned my subscribe. Keep up the great work :)
Glad you liked it, and you've found it useful. Thanks so much!
Great vid Jeff. Super informative and epic terrain as always.
Thanks Jay! Hopefully you'll finally get the rules down now...
Haha. Its your last few Rules vids that misinformed me!
So, what I don't get about Q19:
You first make the primary focus, which is obviously C2
Now, in the previous quizzes, you always said the specific line "the secondary focus is always determined by the starting point, not the point were it would be after the movement"
Following this rule, wouldn't the secondary target be C3, and thus moving to C to attack C2 and C3, but also maximizing his attack by additional targeting C4?
(Exampel Question 15, where the Tinkerer is the first second focus, not the summon)
I see this more as a Rule-Loop (either "If-Then" or "For-Next" Coding) in which each rule is repeated after the maximum of targets can be attacked.
Because the way you show it (I know you only take it from the forum), it would first look for the 3 focus.
Or do all other characters count as secondary focus, and there is no "third" and "forth" focus?
So I used the terms "secondary focus" somewhat casually in previous videos, when in actuality there is no such thing, it was just a term I was dropping to try and explain rules concepts. In actuality, the monster only picks primary focus (enemy it can hit using least amount of movement with current attack), and then attempts to maximize the attack, again attempting to do so using least amount of movement (because monsters are lazy). So C2 must be attacked, the next priority is get two additional targets besides C2 using the least amount of movement, which is why the monster chooses to move 3 spaces to attack C1, C2, and C4.
So a flying monster wich ends on a trap will not trigger it. How about jumping?
According to page 19 of the rule book "Some Move abilities are specified as a “Jump.” Move X (Jump) allows the character (or monster) to ignore all figures and terrain effects during their movement. However, the last hex of a jump is still considered a normal movement, and so must obey the normal movement rules above." Therefore a monster will treat the final space of a jump move as if it were not jumping, avoiding any negative hexes or obstacles on the final space. A monster will only land on a trap if there is no other way to move towards a space where it can attack its focused enemy. If there is any other way around the trap or to space where the monster's current attack can be made, the monster will not land on the trap.
In question 18 wouldn't the Drake with an area affect attack be treated the same as a ranged with a multiple attack and therefore attack C2 and C4 from space D? I thought the determining factor would be proximity first before the creature moves to determine multiple attacks. So it's not the least amount of movement but proximity to the characters before the monster moves that should determine its multiple attacks and since C4 is closer before the monster moves then C4 is the next target for multiple attacks. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
This same issue occurs in question 19 also. I thought monsters with multiple attacks first find their focus, then use closest proximity before they move to determine which characters will be included in the monsters remaining multiple attacks. So the monster would move to space C since Character C3 is closer in proximity before the monster moves and must be included in its multiple attack, then attack C2, C3, and C4. This is the same order of operations as used with ranged monsters in previous questions. Does it change because the monster is using a melee attack instead of a ranged attack? Ah the joys of Gloomhaven monster AI.