Gurdjieff on self-observation and the man-machine , the playhouse , New York 1924
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2024
- Hello, and a very warm welcome to you.
The reading is from chapter 48 of G.I. Gurdjieff's Beelzebub's Tales to his grandson entitled 'From the Author'.
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Lara&Noel
my brother! thank you for this.
Thank God for Gurdjieff!
Listening to this, My head spins and it feels like a kind of terror is lurking behind the spinning. I can not do anything about it…so I just watch as best I can. 🙏
Listening to this, My head spins and it feels like a kind of terror is lurking behind the spinning. I can not do anything about it…so I just watch as best I can. 🙏and it feels like all the sounds that come out of my mouth called ‘words’ are just meaningless sounds.
Correction : chapter 48 , from the author
I remember a Fourth Way Guy telling me once he faced a dirty, extremely difficult, dangerous, and most certainly uncertain task.
He said upon achieving an all centers state, He proceeded. At times he knew severe obstacles would present themselves but each time ideas and pathways would emerge.
Finishing, he said had anyone told me I could do this filthy dangerous task I would have scoffed, but at each new challenge I got help somehow. Holding that state over time was like connecting to a cosmic power source.
The longer one is in the work , the more difficult things become. Although , as you say , when all centers are aligned whatever task/challenge one is met with , one "gets help somehow."
The presentation of new ideas and pathways ( a reconstruction of the work ) is indispensable to meet these challenges.
Very helpful video. With regard to self observation. I tried an exercise where I tried to listen to my 'talking machine' during the course of a day. Was horrified, I had always thought of myself as the strong silent type. Realised how much bollocks that it was talking, how an insincere, repetitive, monotonous drone was being omitted.
This is very true.
Between each thought there is a barely perceptible nanosecond of total silence. It is possible to suspend mechanical thought in this interval. Then hold it and see what happens. First of all you will realize that there is a subtle energy outside you , directly above you. Michel de salzmann refers to it as "a sacred energy coming into me." John Pentland speaks of the same thing in a great talk he gave. Here is the link to the Pentland talk
ruclips.net/video/kqDYrGrfFuw/видео.htmlsi=gDn-BCT1ZdgoTxlz
A detached energy by Lord John Pentland.
You will also find Jeanne de Salzmann's The Reality of being a minefield of information on this subject and exceedingly helpful.
All the best ,
Noel
@@hermesnoelthefourthway Thank you very much for signposting me to Lord Pentland and Jean de Salzmann. Will be looking at their work. Today found that observing inner chatter in the morning before going to the day job made me just a little bit more aware of 'it' talking. Attempting this again tomorrow. With all good wishes.
@@michaelbully3210
ruclips.net/video/NojgKgQPsqs/видео.htmlsi=6sv2xtn3P6g_SM_K
This came as a revelation to me a few years back and should kick-start your introduction to Madam de Salzmann's The reality of being.
It's a very important section from chapter 7 , section 73 , ego and illusion , the imagination of myself.
Madam de Salzmann worked closely with Gurdjieff for over 30 years and he said to her , " I want you to live to be 100 and pass on my work in its essence."
This she did.
She lived to be 101.
Osho said that Gurdjieff is the most important man of this century and the only real psychologist. That Freud, Alder etc were only alchemists. What we call psychology today is not psychology at all, it is in its infancy stage. I totally agree.
Nowhere in my degree or ongoing training does anyone talk about the three centres and self observation.
Since I have been actively participating in self observation for a while now, (once I realised modern psychology on its own is a pile of dog poo) the sheer ugliness (and sometimes beauty) I have come accross helps me understand why it is not a popular movement. It can be extremely painful at times. But absolutely essential if one is to actually live or love.
Thank you for your persistent reminder of the importance of this work ❤
Great comment and so very true. Everyone who I've ever come across in this work has fully realized that it is true and that it has no equal. Not even remotely.
Maurice Nicoll was friends with Carl Jung and spent time with him in Switzerland. When Nicoll came back to london he had said to Jung that he would promote his ideas. A few weeks later Nicoll was introduced to Gurdjieff at a London meeting. The next day he informed Jung that he would no longer be promoting his ideas and severed ties with him.
A wise move , if ever there was one.
As for the so-called psychologists you mention , total garbage at best , misleading , gravely mistaken charlatans at worst.
Gurdjieff contemptuously dismisses all theosophists , occultists , and psychoanalysists (et al) as candidates for the lunatic asylum who will set up schackermacker booths of lunacy and lead the gullible astray.
Thank goodness , the work is not popular and never will be so. It takes a rare intelligence (something in short supply these days) to even remotely understand and evalue its timeless beauty and unquestionable truths.
As Mr.Ouspensky would say at his london meetings...."the work is of value because it is not for everyone. "
@@hermesnoelthefourthway I totally agree. Osho says Ouspensky and Gurdjieff are the two main men that he values the most this century. He has also developed active meditations that reflect their work, in order to help people move into the three centres (among other things). Osho was ruthlessly attacked and forced to leave America for his work, but he didn’t care about what society or tradition thought at all.
I find myself speaking with people about the three centres and the types of meditations originally created by Gerdjieff. And I find myself trying to find ways to respond to people’s attempts at freeing themselves in these more authentic ways. However, for myself, I want to respond to the work as authentically and as fiercely as possible. It is so challenging at times, I completely understand why it frightens people and why they would shy away from it. And why they would prefer a watered down version. Personally I don’t agree wanting to water it down, because as you said, if the three centres are not touched by the Devine then it’s all worth naught. But, it’s their choice, and I can not force anyone to do anything.
@@hermesnoelthefourthwayyes, whether true or not, I always admired the story of Mr. Gurdjieff throwing Mr. Crowley out his house.
Well? As Far as "I" can understand, we must look at the 3 "Archetypes" (as mentioned within "The First Series")... WHAT do these 3 "Archetypes" (Represent)? Ahoon, Hassein, and Beelzebub? (in my humble opinion) Understanding these 3 Archetypes (is "key") However? From my "subjective understanding" I see That? First "Ahoon" is the "Archetype" of "The False personality/False identity"... That is? "The organic body" (second world)... Now Who/What is the "Hassein" "Archetype" then? Well? That must be "related to" (That) What Gurdjieff called "The Essence"... and/or (perhaps) related to "The Emotional center" (and/or) "The Higher Emotional center" (in short) "Hassein" is then "The Archetype" of "The Essence" (or) "The spirit" (The Emotional/Higher Emotional centers)... That (inner) "Essence" (the "inner spirit") That has been "swallowed up" (inside) by the "False personality" (organic body)...and? This is also related to that "Subject/matter" (The Struggle) "in between" (The "inner" (Essence) The "inner" Spirit) and "The False pesonality" (organic body)... This is the "cosmic drama" (of "The Third State") of "Self-Awareness/Self-observation"... (The Struggle) in between "The organic body(False personality) and/"The Spirit"(The "inner" Essence).... As Gurdjieff also mentioned (within the very last chapter).... "Ahoon" (The False personality/organic body) (The *Servant* of Beelzebub)... "will *Not* "be forgiven" (for all the various (past) "voluntary and involuntary" (disrespectful manifestations) as "Ahoon" "Beg for forgiveness" (Beelzebub) "in silence" (gaze at him) "with a look which, though percieved externally from without" (was full of love and forgiveness) *Yet* "there could be felt in it also "His Essence-grief and inevitable resignation".... (so? in reality) "Ahoon" (The false personality/organic body) is *Not* "forgiven" (for all the various) "voluntary and involuntary" "disrespectful manifestations".... And? (Furthermore?) The (very last) "reply" (To *Hassein* "The Essence/The Spirit").... "That has been "Swallowed up" ("within") by the False personality/False identity....(is that) "a new organ" (should be "implanted" again *INTO THEIR PRESENCES*) That "He" (Hassein) "Should constantly *SENSE* and Be *COGNIZANT* (of the inevitability) "of his own death" "as well as of the death of everyone upon his Eyes or *ATTENTION* (rests)"... So That is (also) "The Final destiny" (for "Hassein") "Why" did Gurdjieff call "Humans" "The Food Factory"? (meaning?) "The *Trogoautoegocratic* (cosmic law) meaning? "we" "exist" as a "food source" (for a "Higher world" a "Higher intelligence").... (unconsciously or consciously) its "up to us" (to realize/understand it)... meaning? "Either we "like it" or ("not") we *Still* "exist" (consciously or unconsciously) as "The Food source" (for our *own* "Higher intelligence", "Higher world" or "Higher being body") "The Third World" (That exist *IN BETWEEN* "The inner/outer world")....or Else? we will be? "Unconscious" "Food-sources" (for the "Higher world/Higher intelligence" (unconscious food-sources) for "The Higher worlds/Higher intelligences" etc... its a "cosmic/universal law" (That we "should") understand (meaning? "The Trogoautoegocratic" cosmic/universal law) "we exist" (as conscious or unconscious) "Food sources" "The Higher world" or "The Higher intelligence" (for *our own* *individuality* for our own "Higher Being Bodies")... That is my "subjective understanding". Than you..
www.gurdjieff.org/gurdjieff5.htm
This will be of some help for those wishing to go further into "the third world of man" and the necessary conditions in which to do so.
Thank you for your comment.
Noel
I don’t think we need to believe in a higher force
Because a higher force has no belief.
It is like asking god which region it believes in. 😊
Thanks for the reading and your insight 🙏
Yes. You are absolutely right. "Belief" doesn't come into it. Here is Mr. Ouspensky on this subject.
"There is no question of faith or belief in all of this. Quite the opposite , this system reaches people believe in absolutely nothing. You must verify everything that you see , hear and feel. Only in that way can you come to something." Chapter one , the fourth way.
If you haven't read the fourth way , I would put it at the top of your reading list.
"
Hi Noel. In one video you said your age was early 80's and then another video you said you were born in 1928. And I think another video there was another age discrepancy. Are we to make anything of this? Thanks
Hi there ,
One thing is certain about the work , and that is , those that do it retain an uncanny youthfulness , vigour , and generally live to be a great ago. Both Maurice Nicoll and Madam de salzmann say that this is due to our brain cells being transformed via the intake of higher impressions. One is basically working on oneself along the lines of tried and tested principles as opposed to being negative and vegetating. Nothing ages one as fast as an indented negative emotion. Although the moon is very happy with this as it is all part and parcel of the great cosmic scheme.
I really don't know how old I am.
Time does not exist.
And then again , life is real only then when "I am."
And the work is all non sense.
All the best ,
Noel
@@hermesnoelthefourthway thank you
I am looking for gurdjieffs comment about the danger of man using too much electricity and that civilizations had gone down due to this....also using too much affected spirituality and why that was so. Can anyone help?
Chapter 45 of Beelzebub's tales , in the opinion of Beelzebub , Man's extraction of electricity from Nature , and its destruction during its use , is one of the chief causes of the shortening of human life.
Thanks for that but although similar it's not the one I meant ..gurdjieff went into detail as to why extracting ??? from aether ........meant less for spirituality...which I suspect causes wars and low vibrations..animal like existence more people more deaths as only way to fulfil natures needs ..looked through fragments of a lost teaching .doesn't seem to be from there...
I found what I was searching for in C S notes book on Orages commentary on Beelzebub.."heat and light are the remorse of matter it is sometimes said in modern physics that we are the product of electricity. The three forces are assembled in one. Okidanokh electricity -positive negative and neutralising. Gurdjieff said that two previous civilisations had gone down because of too much mechanical use of electricity..ours maybe the third one. Owing to this extreme mechanical use there is less for psychological use .hence the willnessless and aimlessness of people at 18 and 21 when ancients began teaching ..at this idealistic time life is full of electricity but there is no one to show youth what to do with it.