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Ow1 were the low were lows and the high were highs. + W teamwork. Ow2 the lows are still pretty low, but the highs are no longer really high. + L teamwork Sadge
Honestly, I would rather have my average games that are mid but still enjoyable than endure for 15 games and have a legendary game when stars aligned. If I want a sense of relief the 6v6 overwatch gives me, I'll just hold my pee for as long as I can.
How did they rework orissa from being the most annoying, pace slowing, unkillable character into the most annoying, pace slowing, unkillable character, honestly its impressive
@@sobervision1049 IDK what y'all were expecting but supports are actual heroes, not target practice, it's normal for them to be able to defend themselves. And it's really not that hard to pressure a squishy in OW2, you need to be a bit more tricky with your timing and positioning, but supports are still much easier to kill than most DPS and all tanks, you just spend more time pressuring them than shooting at shields and cluster of people. Supports still have a much higher ttk than dps so they really aren't favoured to win the dual, but I guess overwatch 1 supports just made it so easy to kill them that actually having to try feels weird
Almost like all u had to was nerf 2 tanks for the game to be fun again. Or we go to this shit format where supports have to be broken to keep their one tank alive because there no longer is an offtank to peel. That’s more fun
@@lukassorowka2672you are part of the issue as a rein main. I think if they buff up doom fist and ball they could make a really good solution to double shields. Sure the tanks can sit behind their shields but how long can their supports stay hidden?
@@lukassorowka2672but over watch 2 is different I think you will thrive with 6v6. You can be a mobile double shield with sigma, or a juggernaut escorting a juiced up samoan. A lot of things need to happen to make 6v6 great but, in its current state I think 6v6 would be better than what we have now.
@@jacobsotorios8886 It's a LOT less effective without bap. Lamp is a third shield, it's actually even better than that because you have to aim to hit it, and it may not even be in LOS. It's the difference between being able to do any meaningful damage after breaking / otherwise bypassing the shields or giving them time to reposition / recharge shields. Not to mention all the nerfs immortality got since then.
It was a balance issue but you know what people still think the old team was somehow better at balancing than the current. I'm guilty of this as well cause of last patch but gotta admit the old team was just as bad if not worse.
@@RD-um9dy it blows my mind that this isn't obvious to more people. at least 90% of hero additions have been a net negative for the game, and only added to create the most shallow hype + keep things "interesting". bring back 2016 ow
I wish they had just created two subclasses of tanks. Off tank heroes and main tank heroes. That way players that like to off tank can always queue to be an off tank (Zarya, D.VA, Doomfist, Junkerqueen, Hammond) + main tank queue (Orisa, Sigma, Reinhardt, Winston, etc.).
Blizzard could've literally dropped Ram instead of echo and the problem would've been solved years ago. Also double shield was a Baptiste problem because we can clearly see the shields are broken pretty easily but the lamp buys 5 extra seconds to get all CD's and recharge back, the comp was nothing without bap and people refuse to admit it
Idk if Ram would actually had fix double shield, His ult would have maybe been useless considering he's getting blocked by shield and his fist with 2 tanks will not do that much imo
@@bourbiespeedrun Back then Orisa could be headshot in fortify and didn't get overhealth when using it, she was considerably less tanky, and sigma can't block the punches either, the point of Ram wouldn't be for his ult, it would be to bypass the shields easily forcing CD's like bap lamp AND being able to break it through shields. Pair that with Lucio speed, Zarya to bubble him or Sig to cover him. That brawl style of comp would've easily crushed double shield out of the meta, but Blizzard doesn't like to think. They even confirmed they had the heroes ready for years but kept them in thier back pocket so there's no excuse why they didn't release him over echo. Also Ram ult would be surprisingly effective since Orisa shield was stationary leaving only Sig shield as the main threat, Ram's main priority would be attacking the supports and dps leaving the tanks helpless to defend the team
@@judebrown3588 Oh yeah you're right I forgot some things mb, but it actually just would have been putting a new meta and forcing Ram in every comp games but yeah now that the game is dead hard to see what impact would have really been
Yes double shield was bad, but I haven’t seen coordination like this in OW2 ever. The level of coordination in OW1 was what made the game feel so lively, and now that is definitely gone.
100%. Overwatch is so independent now. Too independent, it’s a TEAM GAME. I miss tank coordination so much. I also think this is why so many people liked lw so much, there is a level of synergy with him and team work that gives people that same fulfillment to some degree that ow 1 had.
@@zeldacerezaNah tank synergy was so painful in ow1. Masters was a cancerous rank. Just meta slaves. The second an OWL team plays Winston zarya, the whole rank copies it. There actually was no counterplay to it, that Winston will jump into the middle of a team, for free, sleep, brig stun, mcree nade, nothing. There were so many comps like that where map control for the other roles did not matter. Even if map control did matter, it was for the tanks, not the other roles, the tank controls the off angles, main, everything. Imo it was actually terrible when everyone got good. Now dps are expected to take off angles as soon as possible, even some supports. Even brawl comps, the dps or supports take off angles.
Nothing has been as bad as the recent Mauga meta. That was completely brain-dead. This needed a lot of actual teamwork. Dive is another cool play style. Hard to sync up, but when you get it becomes extremely fun
or just let them stay overtuned, but give all dps additional tactical charges. That would make them so dynamic, so they would be able to stand up to double tanks
@dmitrychirkov4206 i am like wouldn't it be easier to make all shields just reduce the damage that goes trought them ao they are not just a net denial but still give a lot of protection and block projectiles and hooks
say it louder for the people in the back. 6v6 was never the issue. it was blizzard's dogsh!t design and balance philosophy that is still running rampant to this day. this is why my friends and i dont play this game no mo
It is a second tank issue. You either nerf shields so they're not great when having two, meaning having one is even worse. Or you can no longer design heroes with shields.
The reality is not that 6v6 was an issue, the end of Overwatch 1 was an issue. If the game remained getting updates (just like early Overwatch with sym and torb), we could have still seen the Orisa rework and bastion rework. Bunker would be literally removed from the game. And the shield spam would have openings because every other shield is a resource, not a cooldown. Even ramattra is a lesson learned that a shield duration must exist like bubble.
It wasnt even the shield, it was the baptiste that made everything work, it was a cycle, sheild, sig suck and fortify, then bap lamp while all the cds came back, the bap was the issue, insane aoe heals, (which got buffed in ow2 thanks blizz) good dmg, insane ult for teamfights
I think it was the DPS more so than the shield, as someone who used to play rein at the start of double shields, the problem felt less like Orisa/Sigma couldn't die and more that if you didn't have both of them, you just exploded. I think if they had nerfed the damage, the comp would have fallen apart since rush/dive would have been able to close the distance without being deleted.
@@markbo3251this is a terrible take because the buffed damage so bad after inflating the amount of sustain by a billion and creating goats. In their ultimate wisdom, even from the time of ana world of tanks and Moira Proto goats they thought damage was the counter to this and to goats. The devs are idiots. The damage was so high because sustain was so high, and they refused to rework shit like brig or Moira or orisa or sig. bap brig was just the final nail in the coffin as in it was the most miserable of everything Overwatch had to offer… the stupefying sustains and the reliance on insane burst dmg to get any kills or break shields. Nerfing damage without ggoijg to the root would just make the DPS role even more useless (was already useless at that point) that’s why u saw a lot of these clips mainly bastion mei and snipers.
Nah, you guys are just being unnecessarily nostalgic for a time long gone, because you know it will never come back. Double tank was utter nightmare, and this is coming from a tank main role. It prolongs matches and makes them feel so stagnated.
@@Hunterz_VR That’s okay, I’m not looking to change your mind. That is your opinion and you should stick by it. And it is my opinion that 6v6 was a clusterfuck shit show of shields and stagnated matches. It’s not the end of the world.
Most people miss rein/zarya or winston/dva, but I miss playing with my best friend all the weird duos, like hog/zarya , dva/sigma , rein/ball, etc. I mean, we also miss playing classic tank combos, but we loved doing crazy stuff and try to both do our own thing as our picked characters, and synergise as much as we could at the same time. Enabling an aggresive hog hook with a bubble or *cleansing* an anti'ed roadhog by ana's grenade was a much more fair thing to do than nowadays kiriko's suzu imo. I would explain every other small thing that you would do with any other 'weird' tank combo, but that was peak gameplay for me and my friend. Now all of the main cast got either giga buffed to the point where their gameplay lost their charm and feeling of being reawrded by winning (I can just shield bot as rein and never die, or use dva's matrix for an entire team fight and never die, and hold self-heal on hog and never die) or they lost their identity because there is no second tank (ball). Now I just play only junkerqueen and sometimes doomfist (also bring dps doomfist back) and despite the fact that thery're more like big dpses than tanks, they're for me the only two characters in the tank role rn that reward you for your skill and game knowledge, and not just beefy stats. And of course it's my take, anyone should play any character they want and have fun with, it's just a game, some characters' mains may complain that their hero is the most skill required than any other one and it's fine, that is just how I feel about playing tank in ow2 in its current state.
Agreed. The comp shown in this video just needed some balancing, that's it. OW1 wasn't perfect for sure, but I did have more fun playing it than I do OW2, and that remains today. I think OW1 was actually best just before Role Queue was introduced.
Exactly, the first year or two of OW1 was a blast because it was casual-friendly and allowed for some really creative and clever gameplay. Matches were a lot less predictable and the "META" didn't really become a thing until Role Queues and OWL, which was a huge mistake on every level. OW2 is the definition of homogeny, boring and predictable.
6v6 could work if they either got rid of most shields or maybe created a tank passive that decreases the shield health drastically when you add a second shield tank
you know, i’m honestly not opposed to this idea. it’s surprisingly intuitive that more shields would mean less health shields, almost like it’s a resource that needs to be split.
@@defaultdan7923 Yep, and it would eliminate the need for weird strict role restrictions, hero bans, and unneeded reworks. You'd still be able to use shields for plays whether it be saving a teammate, blocking a ton of burst damage, giving your team cover to advance forward, but the resource of the shield itself would be more limited. It'd probably lead to a lil more tank synergy of properly timing shields to go one after the other. They could also toy with shields like sigmas or ramattra disappearing after a while. Theres a lot of changes that could be make but I think making shield health a resource that gets split when more shields are present could be interesting
@@connor.chan.jazzman yeah, the obtuse role restrictions suggestion is the one i never understood. encourage creativity by restricting the ability of tanks to work together, brilliant. not to mention how awful it would be for new players to learn that they can’t run certain characters together, and not know why. it’s just clunky.
They easily could have either put Sigma on a long redeploy timer, Or changed lamp to have less hp or a longer CD. There's so many answers we could have tried instead of removing a tank. I miss playing in tank duos with my partner. OW will never been the same without 2 tanks.
Problem is mostly that the tank population was already dwindling a looot. Queues were 15-20 minutes for your average metal rank DPS, and it only got worse the more you went into the low and high extremes of the SR curve. Nerfing the tanks would only make them feel worse to play. They would have needed a ridiculous amount of systematic changes to the entire DPS roster for that to happen. There's a lot of rose tinted nostalgia for OW1, and I have some myself tbh, but I do honestly believe the 5v5 model has more potential for balance. Yes, it is currently annoying to be counter-swapped by the entire team, but I think that problem is potentially easier to solve than the dilemma surrounding oppressive tank synergies vs low tank population in OW1.
@@penrilfake it’s not rose tinted glasses if the game was genuinely better and I believe that’s pure facts . OW1 captured the hearts of millions and won game of the year . OW2 is a worse product in every way in terms of presentation, gameplay, interactions, mechanics, synergies. You have lost many more ways to play in ow2 than OW1 . A term you see thrown around a lot now is that the game is watered down. Having less ways to play will always be worse experience hands down. OW2 is not and will never be a better game than ow1 in its current state.
@@penrilfakethis argument that it’s “rose tinted glasses” is bullshit. I’ve seen it so many times, it’s not an argument either. You’re assuming something without fact. 5v5 has literally made certain characters and roles unplayable. These characters especially overwatch one characters were made specifically for 6v6 in mind. It literally broke the game. Tank is rock paper scissors, most tanks aren’t viable anymore, off tank isnt a thing anymore, and the synergy is gone. It’s not a team game anymore. There’s no level of team work anymore. And losing a tank slot makes fights end too quickly and make small mistakes huge mistakes. One death equals a lost fight or a point lost 90% of the time, it should not be this way. Especially if it’s the tank who made the mistake. Mistakes are going to happen, and one should not equate to a total flip around. All it needed was balance changes. Not to completely get rid of a role slot.
@@zeldacereza5v5 has made every character and role playable, not the other way around, you can literally one-trick any hero to top 100 rn. That just simply wasn’t possible in 6v6. „Team games“ can only ever go so far before they deny agency and therefore fun from the individual. Ofc it sucks to be counterswapped and the disproportionate value of it needs (and can) be adjusted. But it’s still better then feeling like you have no other means of outplaying the enemy when you’re getting rolled. In fact, I’m even gonna argue that the problem with 6v6 was the fact that it was Team play oriented, that certain tanks could cover each others weaknesses. Heroes should have weaknesses and there should always be room for utilizing those weaknesses, it just has to require enough skill to do so. 5v5 is definitely not perfect. And requires a ton of reworks. But it is still the change the game needed to survive and has a lot more potential than 6v6.
@JCon.G not only is that a lot of cope but your wrong about one tricks because not matter how many characters slots we lose there will always be a one trick who just wants to play their favorite character no matter what.
The reason there is 1 tank is because Blizzard was running with a minimal support attitude doing next to nothing for patches or attempts to change meta. It was only number changes for 3 years, and 2 of those years were 1 patch every 3-4 months which is a dead game. Team 4 gave up.
not only the laziest but the worse. instead of nerfing it they have broken the tank role and its not repairable unless they go back, but they will never go back because then that means they are admitting overwatch 2 was a cash grab
Deleting a whole tank role was truly, absolutely, without a doubt, definitively, positively the right choice. I mean, what was Blizzard to do, TRY and fix double shield? PREPOSTEROUS!!! BLIZ HAD TO delete a tank role!
Completly agree. People are so delusional, nobody liked this when we were there, nobody liked shooting shield for the whole game and getting cc every 2 secondes, but suddenly this "coordination" was so fun ?? But bro, just balance the tanks lul. Does nobody remember the 30-60 min dps queue ? And your solution to make more people play tank would be to nerf them ? Only 1 tank now, and they're way more impactful than before, and yet tank is still the fastest queue in most rank. But surely 2 tanks would work right ?
My Hope hero ban comming to Overwatch2 i will 100% Bann Ana (my ow1 main) and Kiriko they desverd it. If there is a Team Ana, Kiriko against other Supports we know which side have a higher winrate
btw this isnt me shitting on OW1 as some believe if people watched to the end they would know dont hate on me just dug up some old clips +1 nostalgia point
@@toons8744 when have you ever heard the amount of communication in vc in ow2 that the bastion clips have? i'm grandmasters and i straight up don't see anyone on voicechat period
@@toons8744 Look at the first clip. There's so much crucial game decisions there. When to strike, when to fall back, when to use your ability, should you or your teammates use ults now or not. If you were just "sitting in one spot and clicking shoot" you would be dead.
Nah bro this was actually pretty horrible, I take OW2 over this. OW1 was better in general but not updating the game really lead to the worst meta ever :(
I have genuinely not had actual fun in overwatch 2. Even games where we stomp the enemy feel empty. The teamwork in ow1, when it worked, was peak gaming experience that i wish everyone got to have at least once
I've had tons of fun with ow2. Team play can still be done and it feels so great when you manage to coordinate with your team. But I still get you. It was way more common to play as team before, the game actually forced people to play as a team. Now, a lot of times it feels like people are playing death match. And it's gonna be worse with the new passive healing for tanks and DPS in the next patch
It's pretty hard to tell if lack of enjoyment is the game changing or yourself getting burned out or unwilling to change with it sometimes. I found learning new ways to play and learning different heroes always kept me engaged with 2. I had to let myself enjoy it
@@hardcase8003Nah this game is not the same and that’s fine. Some people prefer the new OW. I find no joy in playing it anymore no matter who I play anymore. No satisfaction in winning. Helldivers has been a breath of fresh air I tell you.
This is coming from someone who is 31 years old btw, I've played so many games since I was 11 years old (mostly MMORPGs) and I used to think the same way you do, that nothing can ever compare to the games I played and experiences I had when I was young so I decided to just refuse most new games because I kept thinking that I can never had what I had and the future was bleak. I decided to change this attitude and try out a lot of games (including overwatch 2) and found myself enjoying them, making new friends, amazing memories, and good moments. If I stayed the same way as I was before, I will end up old and bitter, wishing for the past that will never come, refusing to make new memories.
I wasnt really into overwatch but I got back into it about just over a year before overwatch 2 and I really enjoyed some of the combos you could do with tanks. Some simple stuff like having your rein charge into a bunch of enemies and make sure you shield him at the right time with zarya.
This looks way funner and involves the entire team working together with thier abilites than just "take all the enemies CCs and hope they can kill their immortal supports"
@@defaultdan7923 Finding a team to willingly do that in sync happens every 1/8 games. Even then, it is a team working together to perform a very specific comp in very specific situations. Definitely requires more teamwork than just pumping steroids into Mauga until both of his hearts give out.
that sigma barrier without the 2 second cooldown felt so good to use, it was easier to block shatter, can reposition it much quickly, and the hp, it was so busted
You brought back some really fond memories man, I think I agree with you that id rather have double shield, goats, or triple tank, or just overwatch 1 back rather than overwatch 2. Thank you for this man it was really cool to see the past again :)
I’m not going to lie though. Those were some of the funnest team fights I’ve ever been in. If they could find a good middle ground between these long fights and the short ones if OW2 that would be great
Yeah totally understandable to want to deal with 3-5k worth of shield damage just to see the point get captured instead of at most dealing 500 damage and making them run away as well
@@muysli.y1855 The real take. This guy saying he liked double shield at the end was fucking hilarious. I legit watched the whole video thinking it was a display of how awful the game got.
These kind of things werent because of 2 tanks on a team though, its 2 specific tanks that had everything in their kits instead of trade offs, propped up by bap and brig most of the time whom both were (and still are) busted as well. not a 2 2 2 issue, a hero design of 4 heroes specifically issue
I feel like this argument falls flat on its face anymore because Orisa no longer has shield. Best you could do these days is run a Rein and Sigma, but the Rein would probably get run over by Ram+Bastion, leaving the rest of the team wide open to be wiped.
They could’ve added a new stat that gave certain heroes weapons a bonus damage multiplier on shields (i.e 1.5x for junkrat or 1.3x for pharah) giving them another roll they could’ve filled. Instead we have the extremely repetitive gameplay loop of “tank looks at tank until one tank stops breathing, repeat”
Idk who is saying they want "This" back, but people are sad they broke the 6v6 for no other reason but to change stuff up cause OW2 needed something different. I played OW for nearly 3 years, and during that time, double shield meta wasn't a thing
I feel like this is more "why Bastion and chain stuns were a problem." Bastion still is a problem but not *as* bad and chain stuns are becoming more and more a problem as they slowly reintroduce all the stuns from OW1 but now with 1 less tank to absorb it. I do think 1 tank is better for the game overall and I kinda like the hybrid-DPS tank thing that tanks are now, but I also greatly miss having a good tank partner and the feeling that gave (Rein/Zarya, Winston/D.Va, Hog/Sig, etc.) and the strategy brain needed to play tank
Yeah, 6v6 was way more fun, especially in a team setting. The issue wasn't the amount of players on each team, but a couple of poorly designed heroes and balance changes. 2CP is also more fun than push, especially in a team setting, a lot more strategy and coordination was required to play 2CP effectively. Push feels very deathmatch-y and the large king of the hill is a worse paced control point.
I miss ow1 so much, actually having to work together as a team was so much fun. Sure there were tons of times where I wanted to rip out my eyes and eat them up but I haven’t had as much fun in ow2. t500 games in ow1 were the absolute best
I just wanna know why Winston’s shield up time was shorter than the cool down for it? Meanwhile, oresa can deploy shield and up time will exceed the cooldown to deploy shield.
Reason this worked was mostly Bap, Brig, Sigma and Orisa (if we're talking about final version of double barrier before ow2). Brig could basically deny any chance of using dive against the comp and with the combination of Sigma and Orisa's shields + her fortify and his grasp, they basically had no defensive ability cooldown and if they were ever at any threat of death, well bap just swoops in with his big heals + good dmg + good ult + immortality that you basically couldn't destroy when placed effectively. Had they nerfed these 4 characters then double shield basically wouldn't work. Or at the very least, double shield would only be good on certain maps rather than basically every map.
i started playing ow a bit after they added like you have to have 1 tank 2 dps and 2 heal in ow1 but i cant imagine anyone new to owl scene understanding all that chaos it seems so chaotic and just hard to keep track
I agree. I played and loved OW1 but the league was hard to follow, which was probably one of the biggest reasons why it struggled so much. For actual play though, that didn't matter much, the only issues would come up with the visual clutter that having 2 extra players can bring, but then again we didn't have stuff like Lifeweaver's tree so honestly the visual clutter is similar in current OW2.
Overwatch get 2016 Game of the Year and until 2018 is was fun beside Brig but back then there was no Sigma or Bap so double Shield. These Clips are mostly 2019-2022 abandon era
This video did not show the issue with having two tanks at all. The most it did was show how much team work was involved in this game vs what it is now on ow2. Shield meta was a problem, yes. But it never worked if you didn’t have Baptise in the back throwing a lamp when shit broke. While it still has its issues I’d rather deal with this than 2 supports drilling a whole through the entire enemy team.
Paladins has a balance. You could run a full team of tanks and it wouldn't cement your win. With the item system, shields can easily be delt with, especially in the late game, you also sacrifice a healer, so your teamwork has to be impeccable to really pull off the strategy, that and tanks are usually well balanced. In overwatch 2, whenever I play open queue and the whole enemy team goes tanks, it's so frustrating because you can feel the lack of balance as there will be little teamwork, yet you are still getting steamrolled by a full stack of tanks that basically have everything.
Yea this is what i talk since Ow1 double Shield we need Item/Ticket system like in League or Paladins Something to deal with such comp maybe you can have 2 of 5 upgrade which you can can equip. Gives you bonus against Shield, Heal, Overhealth or lifesteal, movement speed out of combat.
You don't realize that this is the result of 3 YEARS of dev neglect. It doesn't matter what meta it is, after 3 years anything gets stale. What OW1 players want is the return, not just of the gameplay, but the care they put into the game back then as well. Nowadays they put more effort into monization than gameplay. Half of the roster was specifically designed for 6v6 and the fixes they did for them just kill their identity (sombra, mei, widowmaker, bastion).
@@Anonymous-lv4di sombra went from a utility focused ambusher focused on ability denial to a preying assassin. Mei lost most of her freezing capability, a huge loss to her indivuality and utility. Bastion's immobility may hav me made him weaker, but you had much more control. The ability to freely swap between forms, ungated by a cooldown, allowed for a much more varied playstyle than the "just press shift when it's off cd and fire" he has now. OW1 just doesn't have the same focus on utility as others. If sombra doesn't do dmg she isn't played. If mei doesn't do dmg she isn't played. If bastion deals too much dmg he is always played.
Balance issues that brought bad metas + the game being forgotten for years! 2 tanks wasn't the problem... not even close. If removing one tank "solved" something themselves created, then they shoud've just deleted brig when #removebrig was a thing. Half of their problems wouldn't even exist
imagine comparing 1% of the player base to being the reason why there isnt 2 tanks anymore, the casual player base would crap their pants once one team remotely had any type of synergy..
As overwatch 2 player, this looks SUPER FUN and when you have 2 tanks I feel super good feeling tbh. And I feel more comfort and safe while there is another tank with u xd. + the synergies looks awosome. Imagine with Ram, Mauga, Junker queen etc..
@@NotMadaraaa Yeah i didnt , but i think u had one major issue , which is lack of updates so literaly no balance , same meta over years, if u had same team as now you gonaa really love those days. and the meta gonna change every month like ov2 ,not double shield for 2 years
@@apan990 i agree that 6v6 was really fun and playing tank with your friend was awesome, but double shield meta is not more fun than anything from overwatch 2 like they say. I think the mauga meta and double shield are very similar.
i never played ow1 but this dosent look fun at all.. still i feel like this could be prevented by making it so every team can only have 1 shield tank, this can be easier now that we have tanks like jq, doom and mauga.
If you're referring to the first clip, not that the only reason it became like this was due to the lack of balance patches, this "meta" should only have lasted a month at most, and now: - Orissa doesn't have a shield anymore (it was also the only shield in the game that could stay up 14/7) - Bap lamp is much weaker on a much higher CD (It's the only reason that clip lasted so long, both team would have died many times over without it.) - Even bastion got reworked completely. - Ramatra wasn't a thing yet and would have loved to shred everyone in that closed space with his punches. The meta was only "forced" at higher ranks and even then, the video still showed so much more teamwork that I have ever seen in OW2. OW2 now feels more like COD than OW1.
Majority was fun of Overwatch1 until Sigma was release in 2019 because he synergy so good with Orisa before Orisa and Rein never work (Rein is the perfect Tank design) Shield = no attack Attack = no shield This is why Rein meta is always fun meta
Honestly I’ve played 6v6 I. Customs, some where it was OW1 stats and abilities and one where it was OW2 with 2 tanks, and base overwatch 2 is more fun, some of the tank duo’s you could use was just cancer and it felt all over the place and messy, I played OW1 too I dont get why people like 2 tanks so much
wouldnt happen if OW2 just limited it to one shield tank per team. They are already talking about doing hero bans. That would basically fix it, limit one shield only.
The comp itself was annoying but you notice most teams were groups which is why it worked so well. Without that most games that wouldn’t happen. For the most part though alot of the characters needed some essence of teamwork to work now its all over the place supports dont even have to heal you tbh they can free roam and be just as effective as a any other role.
@@quote_ow i agree, old orisa wasnt engaging at all but it was really funny and way less horrible to play against, i would rather shoot a barrier for 2 minutes and do nothing then get touched by orisa when she shoves me into a corner and spears me against my will
The problem with Orisa + Sigma wasn't the barriers, it was that Fortify + Kinetic Grasp remained strong close-range defensive abilities for all of OW1's life. The devs needed to focus on nerfing Fortify + Kinetic Grasp so that Brawl & Dive comps could deal meaningful damage to Orisa + Sigma once they closed the distance on them.
Игры
Ow1 were the low were lows and the high were highs. + W teamwork.
Ow2 the lows are still pretty low, but the highs are no longer really high. + L teamwork
Sadge
W COMMENT
OW2 where lows are lows and highs? what highs? you're getting games from high Elo!?
Honestly, I would rather have my average games that are mid but still enjoyable than endure for 15 games and have a legendary game when stars aligned.
If I want a sense of relief the 6v6 overwatch gives me, I'll just hold my pee for as long as I can.
I prefer my games to be mediocre but enjoyable rather than being shit or legendary, with no middle ground
Only played ow2. Ngl this looks pretty shit in comparison.
How did they rework orissa from being the most annoying, pace slowing, unkillable character into the most annoying, pace slowing, unkillable character, honestly its impressive
At least now you can kill her team I guess ?
@@artimist0315 which would be true if Supports werent the true final bosses of OW now
Orisa is garbage now easily countable
@@EstebanSarmiento-gs6sl i mean they have a 54% win rate in gm I don't think they're that bad
@@sobervision1049 IDK what y'all were expecting but supports are actual heroes, not target practice, it's normal for them to be able to defend themselves. And it's really not that hard to pressure a squishy in OW2, you need to be a bit more tricky with your timing and positioning, but supports are still much easier to kill than most DPS and all tanks, you just spend more time pressuring them than shooting at shields and cluster of people. Supports still have a much higher ttk than dps so they really aren't favoured to win the dual, but I guess overwatch 1 supports just made it so easy to kill them that actually having to try feels weird
I bet bastions felt so cozy sitting behind 89 shields bruh
6v6 never or remove shields . that bastion play is insaanely boring . how could people play it wtf
All they had to do was restrict double shield and balance a few supports. That’s literally it.
It was nice ngl
The best time to main bastion
@@maxerko its not like it actually worked lol. remember bastion couldnt move in that time all it took was one clever flank from a team
This is peak overwatch, modern day lacks the true feeling of doing nothing for 30 seconds just for your tank to explode because their shield broke!
nah now we just explode before we get our shield broken
Almost like all u had to was nerf 2 tanks for the game to be fun again. Or we go to this shit format where supports have to be broken to keep their one tank alive because there no longer is an offtank to peel. That’s more fun
Wdym peak overwatch, this video is the embodiment of pain for me as a rein main
@@lukassorowka2672you are part of the issue as a rein main. I think if they buff up doom fist and ball they could make a really good solution to double shields. Sure the tanks can sit behind their shields but how long can their supports stay hidden?
@@lukassorowka2672but over watch 2 is different I think you will thrive with 6v6. You can be a mobile double shield with sigma, or a juggernaut escorting a juiced up samoan. A lot of things need to happen to make 6v6 great but, in its current state I think 6v6 would be better than what we have now.
bap immortality looks like a large reason this shit worked
Bap immo and orisa shield’s nonexistent cooldown
it was the only reason. without bap immortality they are all dead cuz the shields went down instantly
AOI healing, shield and bap imo killed OW. Defensive utility sucks
@@scegex6500 double shield still works without bap. Go home. Your time of gaming is over
@@jacobsotorios8886 It's a LOT less effective without bap.
Lamp is a third shield, it's actually even better than that because you have to aim to hit it, and it may not even be in LOS.
It's the difference between being able to do any meaningful damage after breaking / otherwise bypassing the shields or giving them time to reposition / recharge shields.
Not to mention all the nerfs immortality got since then.
Seeing this now its actually insane seeing how many shit was going on at the same time and we felt like it was normal 💀
It was amazing. Easily the best part of the game
@@Pes._don’t lie
@@CasualCat64 some of us got a thing called adhd bro
@@Pes._ visual clutter has nothing to do with adhd
@@CasualCat64 we talking about ow1 not 0.8 with kirko/Lw ult, zarya "enchanced" particle beam, mauga sun shooting miniguns etc etc
always felt more like a balance issue than a tank synergy issue
It was a balance issue but you know what people still think the old team was somehow better at balancing than the current. I'm guilty of this as well cause of last patch but gotta admit the old team was just as bad if not worse.
It was a sigma, bap, and brig issue. Those three heroes ruined the game
@@RD-um9dy it blows my mind that this isn't obvious to more people.
at least 90% of hero additions have been a net negative for the game, and only added to create the most shallow hype + keep things "interesting". bring back 2016 ow
same with 5v5 it can work, its just balance was garbo
I wish they had just created two subclasses of tanks. Off tank heroes and main tank heroes. That way players that like to off tank can always queue to be an off tank (Zarya, D.VA, Doomfist, Junkerqueen, Hammond) + main tank queue (Orisa, Sigma, Reinhardt, Winston, etc.).
Blizzard could've literally dropped Ram instead of echo and the problem would've been solved years ago. Also double shield was a Baptiste problem because we can clearly see the shields are broken pretty easily but the lamp buys 5 extra seconds to get all CD's and recharge back, the comp was nothing without bap and people refuse to admit it
Idk if Ram would actually had fix double shield, His ult would have maybe been useless considering he's getting blocked by shield and his fist with 2 tanks will not do that much imo
@@bourbiespeedrun Back then Orisa could be headshot in fortify and didn't get overhealth when using it, she was considerably less tanky, and sigma can't block the punches either, the point of Ram wouldn't be for his ult, it would be to bypass the shields easily forcing CD's like bap lamp AND being able to break it through shields.
Pair that with Lucio speed, Zarya to bubble him or Sig to cover him. That brawl style of comp would've easily crushed double shield out of the meta, but Blizzard doesn't like to think. They even confirmed they had the heroes ready for years but kept them in thier back pocket so there's no excuse why they didn't release him over echo.
Also Ram ult would be surprisingly effective since Orisa shield was stationary leaving only Sig shield as the main threat, Ram's main priority would be attacking the supports and dps leaving the tanks helpless to defend the team
@@judebrown3588 Oh yeah you're right I forgot some things mb, but it actually just would have been putting a new meta and forcing Ram in every comp games but yeah now that the game is dead hard to see what impact would have really been
@@judebrown3588 while Ram would be good against shields he might get shredded by bastion before he could get good effectiveness in
@@heyyou9903 he would 100% get shredded before he even took a step near their tanks.
Honestly looking back at OW1 made me realize how impressive the casters were to keep up with all that
Yes double shield was bad, but I haven’t seen coordination like this in OW2 ever. The level of coordination in OW1 was what made the game feel so lively, and now that is definitely gone.
EXACTLY
100%. Overwatch is so independent now. Too independent, it’s a TEAM GAME. I miss tank coordination so much. I also think this is why so many people liked lw so much, there is a level of synergy with him and team work that gives people that same fulfillment to some degree that ow 1 had.
@@zeldacerezaNah tank synergy was so painful in ow1. Masters was a cancerous rank. Just meta slaves. The second an OWL team plays Winston zarya, the whole rank copies it. There actually was no counterplay to it, that Winston will jump into the middle of a team, for free, sleep, brig stun, mcree nade, nothing. There were so many comps like that where map control for the other roles did not matter. Even if map control did matter, it was for the tanks, not the other roles, the tank controls the off angles, main, everything. Imo it was actually terrible when everyone got good. Now dps are expected to take off angles as soon as possible, even some supports. Even brawl comps, the dps or supports take off angles.
Nothing has been as bad as the recent Mauga meta. That was completely brain-dead. This needed a lot of actual teamwork. Dive is another cool play style. Hard to sync up, but when you get it becomes extremely fun
@@Nemo.404 mauga is goats as a character
This is an issue of hero design, not the 2nd tank. Feels bad man.
or just let them stay overtuned, but give all dps additional tactical charges. That would make them so dynamic, so they would be able to stand up to double tanks
@dmitrychirkov4206 i am like wouldn't it be easier to make all shields just reduce the damage that goes trought them ao they are not just a net denial but still give a lot of protection and block projectiles and hooks
say it louder for the people in the back. 6v6 was never the issue. it was blizzard's dogsh!t design and balance philosophy that is still running rampant to this day. this is why my friends and i dont play this game no mo
It is a second tank issue.
You either nerf shields so they're not great when having two, meaning having one is even worse. Or you can no longer design heroes with shields.
@@TheShapingSickness Brother my whole youtube channel is dedicated to this.
Its not the tanks.
The reality is not that 6v6 was an issue, the end of Overwatch 1 was an issue. If the game remained getting updates (just like early Overwatch with sym and torb), we could have still seen the Orisa rework and bastion rework. Bunker would be literally removed from the game. And the shield spam would have openings because every other shield is a resource, not a cooldown. Even ramattra is a lesson learned that a shield duration must exist like bubble.
All of these clips are from 2019-2020 (double shield meta)
It wasnt even the shield, it was the baptiste that made everything work, it was a cycle, sheild, sig suck and fortify, then bap lamp while all the cds came back, the bap was the issue, insane aoe heals, (which got buffed in ow2 thanks blizz) good dmg, insane ult for teamfights
I think it was the DPS more so than the shield, as someone who used to play rein at the start of double shields, the problem felt less like Orisa/Sigma couldn't die and more that if you didn't have both of them, you just exploded. I think if they had nerfed the damage, the comp would have fallen apart since rush/dive would have been able to close the distance without being deleted.
@@markbo3251this is a terrible take because the buffed damage so bad after inflating the amount of sustain by a billion and creating goats. In their ultimate wisdom, even from the time of ana world of tanks and Moira Proto goats they thought damage was the counter to this and to goats. The devs are idiots. The damage was so high because sustain was so high, and they refused to rework shit like brig or Moira or orisa or sig. bap brig was just the final nail in the coffin as in it was the most miserable of everything Overwatch had to offer… the stupefying sustains and the reliance on insane burst dmg to get any kills or break shields. Nerfing damage without ggoijg to the root would just make the DPS role even more useless (was already useless at that point) that’s why u saw a lot of these clips mainly bastion mei and snipers.
I miss the old comp with stars, I miss loot boxes, I miss having 2 tanks... I miss OG Overwatch
It was god awful lmao, good riddance
@@masift1494 lol enjoy season 9. Roles are arbitrary and pointless in OW2.
Nah, you guys are just being unnecessarily nostalgic for a time long gone, because you know it will never come back. Double tank was utter nightmare, and this is coming from a tank main role. It prolongs matches and makes them feel so stagnated.
old comp was def 100x better no one can change my mind@@Hachishaku-Sama
@@Hunterz_VR That’s okay, I’m not looking to change your mind. That is your opinion and you should stick by it. And it is my opinion that 6v6 was a clusterfuck shit show of shields and stagnated matches.
It’s not the end of the world.
not being able to play rein/zarya , dva/winston is really making me sad.
I miss double bubble so much. Quit tank after S1 of OW2. Just never felt as fun as 6v6. I need monke zarya
Be missing my tank buddy
play open queue, the og way to play ow
@@DaRocketGuy it's just not the same
Not being able to play sigma/orisa really makes me sad
Most people miss rein/zarya or winston/dva, but I miss playing with my best friend all the weird duos, like hog/zarya , dva/sigma , rein/ball, etc. I mean, we also miss playing classic tank combos, but we loved doing crazy stuff and try to both do our own thing as our picked characters, and synergise as much as we could at the same time. Enabling an aggresive hog hook with a bubble or *cleansing* an anti'ed roadhog by ana's grenade was a much more fair thing to do than nowadays kiriko's suzu imo. I would explain every other small thing that you would do with any other 'weird' tank combo, but that was peak gameplay for me and my friend. Now all of the main cast got either giga buffed to the point where their gameplay lost their charm and feeling of being reawrded by winning (I can just shield bot as rein and never die, or use dva's matrix for an entire team fight and never die, and hold self-heal on hog and never die) or they lost their identity because there is no second tank (ball). Now I just play only junkerqueen and sometimes doomfist (also bring dps doomfist back) and despite the fact that thery're more like big dpses than tanks, they're for me the only two characters in the tank role rn that reward you for your skill and game knowledge, and not just beefy stats. And of course it's my take, anyone should play any character they want and have fun with, it's just a game, some characters' mains may complain that their hero is the most skill required than any other one and it's fine, that is just how I feel about playing tank in ow2 in its current state.
Agreed. The comp shown in this video just needed some balancing, that's it. OW1 wasn't perfect for sure, but I did have more fun playing it than I do OW2, and that remains today. I think OW1 was actually best just before Role Queue was introduced.
>I can just shield bot as rein and never die
no offense but what rank are u (genuine question)
Exactly, the first year or two of OW1 was a blast because it was casual-friendly and allowed for some really creative and clever gameplay. Matches were a lot less predictable and the "META" didn't really become a thing until Role Queues and OWL, which was a huge mistake on every level.
OW2 is the definition of homogeny, boring and predictable.
Remove 1 Tank make Supports way stronger expecially ana and kiriko
Hog Zarya meat grinder was OP
6v6 could work if they either got rid of most shields or maybe created a tank passive that decreases the shield health drastically when you add a second shield tank
Or actually just balance the heroes that cause this meta?? Sigma, bap, and brig.
you know, i’m honestly not opposed to this idea. it’s surprisingly intuitive that more shields would mean less health shields, almost like it’s a resource that needs to be split.
@@defaultdan7923 Yep, and it would eliminate the need for weird strict role restrictions, hero bans, and unneeded reworks. You'd still be able to use shields for plays whether it be saving a teammate, blocking a ton of burst damage, giving your team cover to advance forward, but the resource of the shield itself would be more limited. It'd probably lead to a lil more tank synergy of properly timing shields to go one after the other. They could also toy with shields like sigmas or ramattra disappearing after a while. Theres a lot of changes that could be make but I think making shield health a resource that gets split when more shields are present could be interesting
@@connor.chan.jazzman yeah, the obtuse role restrictions suggestion is the one i never understood. encourage creativity by restricting the ability of tanks to work together, brilliant. not to mention how awful it would be for new players to learn that they can’t run certain characters together, and not know why. it’s just clunky.
I've been saying this exact thing for years!
They easily could have either put Sigma on a long redeploy timer, Or changed lamp to have less hp or a longer CD. There's so many answers we could have tried instead of removing a tank. I miss playing in tank duos with my partner. OW will never been the same without 2 tanks.
Problem is mostly that the tank population was already dwindling a looot. Queues were 15-20 minutes for your average metal rank DPS, and it only got worse the more you went into the low and high extremes of the SR curve.
Nerfing the tanks would only make them feel worse to play. They would have needed a ridiculous amount of systematic changes to the entire DPS roster for that to happen.
There's a lot of rose tinted nostalgia for OW1, and I have some myself tbh, but I do honestly believe the 5v5 model has more potential for balance. Yes, it is currently annoying to be counter-swapped by the entire team, but I think that problem is potentially easier to solve than the dilemma surrounding oppressive tank synergies vs low tank population in OW1.
@@penrilfake it’s not rose tinted glasses if the game was genuinely better and I believe that’s pure facts . OW1 captured the hearts of millions and won game of the year . OW2 is a worse product in every way in terms of presentation, gameplay, interactions, mechanics, synergies. You have lost many more ways to play in ow2 than OW1 . A term you see thrown around a lot now is that the game is watered down. Having less ways to play will always be worse experience hands down. OW2 is not and will never be a better game than ow1 in its current state.
@@penrilfakethis argument that it’s “rose tinted glasses” is bullshit. I’ve seen it so many times, it’s not an argument either. You’re assuming something without fact. 5v5 has literally made certain characters and roles unplayable. These characters especially overwatch one characters were made specifically for 6v6 in mind. It literally broke the game. Tank is rock paper scissors, most tanks aren’t viable anymore, off tank isnt a thing anymore, and the synergy is gone. It’s not a team game anymore. There’s no level of team work anymore. And losing a tank slot makes fights end too quickly and make small mistakes huge mistakes. One death equals a lost fight or a point lost 90% of the time, it should not be this way. Especially if it’s the tank who made the mistake. Mistakes are going to happen, and one should not equate to a total flip around. All it needed was balance changes. Not to completely get rid of a role slot.
@@zeldacereza5v5 has made every character and role playable, not the other way around, you can literally one-trick any hero to top 100 rn. That just simply wasn’t possible in 6v6. „Team games“ can only ever go so far before they deny agency and therefore fun from the individual. Ofc it sucks to be counterswapped and the disproportionate value of it needs (and can) be adjusted. But it’s still better then feeling like you have no other means of outplaying the enemy when you’re getting rolled. In fact, I’m even gonna argue that the problem with 6v6 was the fact that it was Team play oriented, that certain tanks could cover each others weaknesses. Heroes should have weaknesses and there should always be room for utilizing those weaknesses, it just has to require enough skill to do so. 5v5 is definitely not perfect. And requires a ton of reworks. But it is still the change the game needed to survive and has a lot more potential than 6v6.
@JCon.G not only is that a lot of cope but your wrong about one tricks because not matter how many characters slots we lose there will always be a one trick who just wants to play their favorite character no matter what.
The reason there is 1 tank is because Blizzard was running with a minimal support attitude doing next to nothing for patches or attempts to change meta. It was only number changes for 3 years, and 2 of those years were 1 patch every 3-4 months which is a dead game. Team 4 gave up.
There are a billion ways of solving the issues with this meta and blizzard literally chose the laziest one
not only the laziest but the worse. instead of nerfing it they have broken the tank role and its not repairable unless they go back, but they will never go back because then that means they are admitting overwatch 2 was a cash grab
Deleting a whole tank role was truly, absolutely, without a doubt, definitively, positively the right choice. I mean, what was Blizzard to do, TRY and fix double shield? PREPOSTEROUS!!! BLIZ HAD TO delete a tank role!
SURELY they couldnt just change a thing a two or add hero bans
I know it's not like orisa one of the main culprits had her shield removed or something 🤔
Completly agree. People are so delusional, nobody liked this when we were there, nobody liked shooting shield for the whole game and getting cc every 2 secondes, but suddenly this "coordination" was so fun ??
But bro, just balance the tanks lul.
Does nobody remember the 30-60 min dps queue ? And your solution to make more people play tank would be to nerf them ? Only 1 tank now, and they're way more impactful than before, and yet tank is still the fastest queue in most rank.
But surely 2 tanks would work right ?
My Hope hero ban comming to Overwatch2 i will 100% Bann Ana (my ow1 main) and Kiriko they desverd it.
If there is a Team Ana, Kiriko against other Supports we know which side have a higher winrate
@@contract_kilo1340 I feel insane reading all of the comments who want 6v6 back.
btw this isnt me shitting on OW1 as some believe if people watched to the end they would know dont hate on me just dug up some old clips +1 nostalgia point
A lot of these clips had me really confused because they’re genuinely good clips, like the architect jump
ow1 man :(
As chaotic as this looks these clips have genuinely more teamplay and more varied playstyles than any meta in ow2
Sitting in one spot and clicking shoot while behind 3 shields = "team play"
@@toons8744 when have you ever heard the amount of communication in vc in ow2 that the bastion clips have? i'm grandmasters and i straight up don't see anyone on voicechat period
@@toons8744
Yes, because they work together to work around the shields and win anyway.
@@toons8744 Look at the first clip. There's so much crucial game decisions there. When to strike, when to fall back, when to use your ability, should you or your teammates use ults now or not. If you were just "sitting in one spot and clicking shoot" you would be dead.
@@MrCake-ic6hn Yes, i too would love to strategically organize my whole team to shoot 3 shields continuously lmao
I can't believe most of these clips are from the lowest points of ow1 and they still look/sound more fun than the entirety ow2
IKR?
Yeah dealing with constant shield usage does not sound fun at all. Quite lying to yourself
Nah bro this was actually pretty horrible, I take OW2 over this.
OW1 was better in general but not updating the game really lead to the worst meta ever :(
@@greenpig1175 You know why they didn't update the game for 4 years?
@@charlestonjew7587 yup, as I said Overwatch 1 was a better game. Not updating it to make the second “game” hurt
double tank is legit more fun to play as/against than 1 tank
I have genuinely not had actual fun in overwatch 2. Even games where we stomp the enemy feel empty. The teamwork in ow1, when it worked, was peak gaming experience that i wish everyone got to have at least once
I've had tons of fun with ow2. Team play can still be done and it feels so great when you manage to coordinate with your team. But I still get you. It was way more common to play as team before, the game actually forced people to play as a team. Now, a lot of times it feels like people are playing death match. And it's gonna be worse with the new passive healing for tanks and DPS in the next patch
It's pretty hard to tell if lack of enjoyment is the game changing or yourself getting burned out or unwilling to change with it sometimes.
I found learning new ways to play and learning different heroes always kept me engaged with 2.
I had to let myself enjoy it
@@hardcase8003Nah this game is not the same and that’s fine. Some people prefer the new OW. I find no joy in playing it anymore no matter who I play anymore. No satisfaction in winning. Helldivers has been a breath of fresh air I tell you.
This is coming from someone who is 31 years old btw, I've played so many games since I was 11 years old (mostly MMORPGs) and I used to think the same way you do, that nothing can ever compare to the games I played and experiences I had when I was young so I decided to just refuse most new games because I kept thinking that I can never had what I had and the future was bleak. I decided to change this attitude and try out a lot of games (including overwatch 2) and found myself enjoying them, making new friends, amazing memories, and good moments. If I stayed the same way as I was before, I will end up old and bitter, wishing for the past that will never come, refusing to make new memories.
I wasnt really into overwatch but I got back into it about just over a year before overwatch 2 and I really enjoyed some of the combos you could do with tanks. Some simple stuff like having your rein charge into a bunch of enemies and make sure you shield him at the right time with zarya.
This looks way funner and involves the entire team working together with thier abilites than just "take all the enemies CCs and hope they can kill their immortal supports"
we can agree to disagree, idk about team working together with abilities when it’s just sigma shield-> orisa shield-> bap lamp-> repeat.
@@defaultdan7923 Finding a team to willingly do that in sync happens every 1/8 games. Even then, it is a team working together to perform a very specific comp in very specific situations. Definitely requires more teamwork than just pumping steroids into Mauga until both of his hearts give out.
@@defaultdan7923 bro what you said tho is teamwork. We can agree its toxic. But its still working together as one unit. That never happens anymore.
Standing still and shooting at a shield is fun?????
@@defaultdan7923This is only one comp that really wasn't even that popular outside of GM
We need OW1 throwback mode, old abilities, old team limits, all that
See how everyone sound way more happy and fulfilled while playing then then now?
No
I miss those times so much, overwatch felt more tactical and chaotic. Also working as a team with a second tank felt much more satisfying
You will rarely, almost never, see this much teamwork and coordination in Ow2 0:30
this in all seriousness looks 100x more fun than playing tank rn
Cap.
that sigma barrier without the 2 second cooldown felt so good to use, it was easier to block shatter, can reposition it much quickly, and the hp, it was so busted
Supports are what really killed the game not tanks. The power creep in the support role was absurd.
I feel like double shield was the problem not 2 tanks.
Double Shield was 2019 a Problem
You brought back some really fond memories man, I think I agree with you that id rather have double shield, goats, or triple tank, or just overwatch 1 back rather than overwatch 2. Thank you for this man it was really cool to see the past again :)
Glad you enjoyed
Ah brings me good old memories. it was so much better than current OW2
we can go back to 6 vs 6 with tuning down the tank role and supps
Still crazy to me that they removed 200-500 HP from the game and BUFFED supports like that wasn't going to be a horrible idea.
The good old days where teams didn’t fold as quickly.
I’m not going to lie though. Those were some of the funnest team fights I’ve ever been in. If they could find a good middle ground between these long fights and the short ones if OW2 that would be great
Ngl, I'd rather go against double shield than play "try to kill a single support simulator"
W mans
@@quote_ow 🤝
Yeah totally understandable to want to deal with 3-5k worth of shield damage just to see the point get captured instead of at most dealing 500 damage and making them run away as well
You do know that the supports would be behind those shields in this style of comp
Not that all players would do the best strategy anyway tho
@heyyou8592 that's fine because in this older meta, supports weren't unkillable dps heroes
ow 1 was such a tactical fps, there is more strat in 10 sec of video than my 1 year in ow2
All they had to do was nerf barriers, sigma, orisa, bap and brig and then the game would be fine.
It was fun 2016-2018 until Brig release and Sigma later
@@muysli.y1855 The real take.
This guy saying he liked double shield at the end was fucking hilarious. I legit watched the whole video thinking it was a display of how awful the game got.
the problem children were 100% orisa, bastion and bap...which 2 of the 3 were reworked so I can see modern 6v6 working
missing sigma
Missing sigma
the clips didn't show 6v6, they showed (late) overwatch 1. think about it...
2019-2022 mostly
@@muysli.y1855
That’s unsurprisingly when Sigma and Baptiste were out, who are arguably the most contributors to this
idc it was more fun and these plays required communication and the reason i love overwatch 1 more than 2.
Watching this makes me realize how much I miss some of these maps
I miss this only cuz it actually took team work. Like team work can work in OW2 but no teamwork also works
6v6 had problems, yes, but It was fixable.5v5 is not.
These kind of things werent because of 2 tanks on a team though, its 2 specific tanks that had everything in their kits instead of trade offs, propped up by bap and brig most of the time whom both were (and still are) busted as well. not a 2 2 2 issue, a hero design of 4 heroes specifically issue
i dont even need to watch the video, the thumbnail + title combo already made me laugh, cry, and like the video at the same time
That first one was pretty cool, like they have to perfectly remove the barriers until they're through, just can't imagine doing that every match.
This looks chaotic as hell wish I coulda played it xD
I feel like this argument falls flat on its face anymore because Orisa no longer has shield. Best you could do these days is run a Rein and Sigma, but the Rein would probably get run over by Ram+Bastion, leaving the rest of the team wide open to be wiped.
They could’ve added a new stat that gave certain heroes weapons a bonus damage multiplier on shields (i.e 1.5x for junkrat or 1.3x for pharah) giving them another roll they could’ve filled. Instead we have the extremely repetitive gameplay loop of “tank looks at tank until one tank stops breathing, repeat”
PLEASE MORE VIDEOS LIKE THIS ❤❤ BRING BACK THIS NOSTALGIA
nostalgia is absolutely the only reason people want this again
They'll quit after one match lmao
Idk who is saying they want "This" back, but people are sad they broke the 6v6 for no other reason but to change stuff up cause OW2 needed something different.
I played OW for nearly 3 years, and during that time, double shield meta wasn't a thing
I feel like there was so much they didn't try when it came to balancing 6v6 which is a shame. Having 2 tanks feels more natural
The thumbnail was enough thank you
I miss playing tank, I loved going D.VA and Zarya but I'm more of an off tank person. You can't off tank if you're the only tank :(
I climbed to masters in OW2 almost exclusively playing DVA.
I feel like this is more "why Bastion and chain stuns were a problem." Bastion still is a problem but not *as* bad and chain stuns are becoming more and more a problem as they slowly reintroduce all the stuns from OW1 but now with 1 less tank to absorb it. I do think 1 tank is better for the game overall and I kinda like the hybrid-DPS tank thing that tanks are now, but I also greatly miss having a good tank partner and the feeling that gave (Rein/Zarya, Winston/D.Va, Hog/Sig, etc.) and the strategy brain needed to play tank
Litterally feels like climbing over a cliff edge
The dafran clip is peak TBH
it wasnt a 6v6 issue it wasa a character design issue, before brig and sigma goats and double shield were never a thing
2016-early 2018 (Brig release)
Yeah, 6v6 was way more fun, especially in a team setting. The issue wasn't the amount of players on each team, but a couple of poorly designed heroes and balance changes.
2CP is also more fun than push, especially in a team setting, a lot more strategy and coordination was required to play 2CP effectively.
Push feels very deathmatch-y and the large king of the hill is a worse paced control point.
@@halinaqi21942cp was and still is terrible
@@NotMadaraaa2 CP blows push and arena out of the water. Push is the stupidest game mode.
Top 0.5% gameplay is why we don't have two tanks anymore
They cater to the higher ranked players and not the majority of the playerbase. Feels bad man.
you have convinced me, there should be 2 tanks! Good video gang
I miss ow1 so much, actually having to work together as a team was so much fun. Sure there were tons of times where I wanted to rip out my eyes and eat them up but I haven’t had as much fun in ow2. t500 games in ow1 were the absolute best
I just wanna know why Winston’s shield up time was shorter than the cool down for it? Meanwhile, oresa can deploy shield and up time will exceed the cooldown to deploy shield.
I miss main tanking
I miss 2 tanks, those were the golden days of OW.
Reason this worked was mostly Bap, Brig, Sigma and Orisa (if we're talking about final version of double barrier before ow2). Brig could basically deny any chance of using dive against the comp and with the combination of Sigma and Orisa's shields + her fortify and his grasp, they basically had no defensive ability cooldown and if they were ever at any threat of death, well bap just swoops in with his big heals + good dmg + good ult + immortality that you basically couldn't destroy when placed effectively. Had they nerfed these 4 characters then double shield basically wouldn't work.
Or at the very least, double shield would only be good on certain maps rather than basically every map.
Notice how none of that happened before Sigma got released?
i miss OW 1 tank synergy, it was the most unique part of the game for me
This is the Bastion with PTSD that fits within lore.
i started playing ow a bit after they added like you have to have 1 tank 2 dps and 2 heal in ow1 but i cant imagine anyone new to owl scene understanding all that chaos it seems so chaotic and just hard to keep track
I agree. I played and loved OW1 but the league was hard to follow, which was probably one of the biggest reasons why it struggled so much.
For actual play though, that didn't matter much, the only issues would come up with the visual clutter that having 2 extra players can bring, but then again we didn't have stuff like Lifeweaver's tree so honestly the visual clutter is similar in current OW2.
Overwatch get 2016 Game of the Year and until 2018 is was fun beside Brig but back then there was no Sigma or Bap so double Shield.
These Clips are mostly 2019-2022 abandon era
the crazy thing is this looks so much more fun and teamwork oriented than ow2 which requires no brain cells and is just a big deathmatch
This is what you guys miss?
Look at the team work and coordination. It’s not just a tank/dps/supp diff. It’s a team effort. THIS is Overwatch.
This video did not show the issue with having two tanks at all. The most it did was show how much team work was involved in this game vs what it is now on ow2. Shield meta was a problem, yes. But it never worked if you didn’t have Baptise in the back throwing a lamp when shit broke. While it still has its issues I’d rather deal with this than 2 supports drilling a whole through the entire enemy team.
Paladins has a balance. You could run a full team of tanks and it wouldn't cement your win. With the item system, shields can easily be delt with, especially in the late game, you also sacrifice a healer, so your teamwork has to be impeccable to really pull off the strategy, that and tanks are usually well balanced. In overwatch 2, whenever I play open queue and the whole enemy team goes tanks, it's so frustrating because you can feel the lack of balance as there will be little teamwork, yet you are still getting steamrolled by a full stack of tanks that basically have everything.
Yea this is what i talk since Ow1 double Shield we need Item/Ticket system like in League or Paladins
Something to deal with such comp maybe you can have 2 of 5 upgrade which you can can equip.
Gives you bonus against Shield, Heal, Overhealth or lifesteal, movement speed out of combat.
I really can't understand how people who have actually played through this want it back
Some of it is blind nostalgia. Most of it is becuase OW2 is a terrible pre-alpha masquerading as a full sequel. It's sad either way 😕
People find comfort in repetition
You don't realize that this is the result of 3 YEARS of dev neglect. It doesn't matter what meta it is, after 3 years anything gets stale. What OW1 players want is the return, not just of the gameplay, but the care they put into the game back then as well. Nowadays they put more effort into monization than gameplay. Half of the roster was specifically designed for 6v6 and the fixes they did for them just kill their identity (sombra, mei, widowmaker, bastion).
@@whythoisuk9646 I kinda agree about Widow but really? Sombra, Mei and Bastion?
@@Anonymous-lv4di sombra went from a utility focused ambusher focused on ability denial to a preying assassin.
Mei lost most of her freezing capability, a huge loss to her indivuality and utility.
Bastion's immobility may hav me made him weaker, but you had much more control. The ability to freely swap between forms, ungated by a cooldown, allowed for a much more varied playstyle than the "just press shift when it's off cd and fire" he has now.
OW1 just doesn't have the same focus on utility as others. If sombra doesn't do dmg she isn't played. If mei doesn't do dmg she isn't played. If bastion deals too much dmg he is always played.
So good to see Bastion Heal, Risa Halt and Bongos again, awe maaan lol
already forgot how annoying it was to be stuck in place as bastion.
Balance issues that brought bad metas + the game being forgotten for years! 2 tanks wasn't the problem... not even close. If removing one tank "solved" something themselves created, then they shoud've just deleted brig when #removebrig was a thing. Half of their problems wouldn't even exist
If there were two tanks, doom and Winston would work against double shield
Or they could remove double shield???
Off tank and main tank could have been two separate roles in ow2
Holy shit. Sigma 1500 shield was crazy with orisa 900
imagine comparing 1% of the player base to being the reason why there isnt 2 tanks anymore, the casual player base would crap their pants once one team remotely had any type of synergy..
kinda true, but easier to find clips AND double shield was played everywhere
@@quote_owtru but it no way hell didnt work below diamond😂😂
@@hambster9759 It didnt work, thats why they are below diamond.
you tank players were just waiting for everyone to forget about this footage to start bitching rent free bruh
@@NotGedas what, i dont understand, and im a tank player myself
the orisa and bastion rework were the most needed tbh
As overwatch 2 player, this looks SUPER FUN and when you have 2 tanks I feel super good feeling tbh. And I feel more comfort and safe while there is another tank with u xd.
+ the synergies looks awosome. Imagine with Ram, Mauga, Junker queen etc..
You definitely didn’t play ow1
@@NotMadaraaa Yeah i didnt , but i think u had one major issue , which is lack of updates so literaly no balance , same meta over years, if u had same team as now you gonaa really love those days.
and the meta gonna change every month like ov2 ,not double shield for 2 years
Overwatch 2 tank experience is just as miserable as this.
There is no way people are acctually missing double shield because it required team play 💀
look at this comment section, clearly they are, its ridiculous.
@@apan990 i agree that 6v6 was really fun and playing tank with your friend was awesome, but double shield meta is not more fun than anything from overwatch 2 like they say. I think the mauga meta and double shield are very similar.
I miss 2016-2018 i drop this game after Sigma release 2019
No one is missing double shield, 6vs6 is missing
i never played ow1 but this dosent look fun at all.. still i feel like this could be prevented by making it so every team can only have 1 shield tank, this can be easier now that we have tanks like jq, doom and mauga.
If you're referring to the first clip, not that the only reason it became like this was due to the lack of balance patches, this "meta" should only have lasted a month at most, and now:
- Orissa doesn't have a shield anymore (it was also the only shield in the game that could stay up 14/7)
- Bap lamp is much weaker on a much higher CD (It's the only reason that clip lasted so long, both team would have died many times over without it.)
- Even bastion got reworked completely.
- Ramatra wasn't a thing yet and would have loved to shred everyone in that closed space with his punches.
The meta was only "forced" at higher ranks and even then, the video still showed so much more teamwork that I have ever seen in OW2.
OW2 now feels more like COD than OW1.
lol 6v6 definitely wasn’t better you aren’t missing out. ppl are just blinded by the nostalgia
It wasn't fun playing against double shield, there wasn't lots of counterplays and it was boring just shooting shields all the time.
Majority was fun of Overwatch1 until Sigma was release in 2019 because he synergy so good with Orisa before Orisa and Rein never work (Rein is the perfect Tank design)
Shield = no attack
Attack = no shield
This is why Rein meta is always fun meta
Damn I remember watch this part live on his steam. Good old days...
literally my favorite days in overwatch
And 1 tank is so much worse for tank players, 6v6 is so much better than 5v5
6v6 was better though it was fun but they taking away
Honestly I’ve played 6v6 I. Customs, some where it was OW1 stats and abilities and one where it was OW2 with 2 tanks, and base overwatch 2 is more fun, some of the tank duo’s you could use was just cancer and it felt all over the place and messy, I played OW1 too I dont get why people like 2 tanks so much
@@Hisokaxchrollo custom games won’t get the same experience as regular matchmaking. can’t control rank gaps in custom games
wouldnt happen if OW2 just limited it to one shield tank per team. They are already talking about doing hero bans. That would basically fix it, limit one shield only.
My hope for Ow2
Hero ban lets go 100% Ana/Kiriko
Sad to see my OG main is so annoying nowadays
The comp itself was annoying but you notice most teams were groups which is why it worked so well. Without that most games that wouldn’t happen. For the most part though alot of the characters needed some essence of teamwork to work now its all over the place supports dont even have to heal you tbh they can free roam and be just as effective as a any other role.
the first bastion was triggering me not using the damn matrix to boost his damage only 1 pixel away from the square
you can complain about orisa sig double shield until u realize orisa doesn’t have a shield nor pull anymore
bring back old orisa!
@@quote_ow i agree, old orisa wasnt engaging at all but it was really funny and way less horrible to play against, i would rather shoot a barrier for 2 minutes and do nothing then get touched by orisa when she shoves me into a corner and spears me against my will
The problem with Orisa + Sigma wasn't the barriers, it was that Fortify + Kinetic Grasp remained strong close-range defensive abilities for all of OW1's life. The devs needed to focus on nerfing Fortify + Kinetic Grasp so that Brawl & Dive comps could deal meaningful damage to Orisa + Sigma once they closed the distance on them.