Hi Alex, I wanted to add some support information to your video (as a tire development engineer) For the UTQG testing, Michelin makes the control reference tire called the Standard Reference Test Tire (SRTT) under Uniroyal. It’s the Tiger Paw. It use to be 14” but since 2021 I believe it was switched to a 16” size because Michelin stopped making the 14”. All tires for UTQG treadwear is tested against this specific tire. Companies can advertise the given score or lower it as a marketing strategy. The chart you mentioned is generally called a spider chart. With regards to tire dimensions, the Tire and Rim Association (TRA), European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation (ETRTO), and Japan Automobile Tyre Manufacturers Association (JATMA) establish the dimensions regulations, generally a max OD and OW for tires. Manufacturers can design tires to be just about any dimension as long as it complies with the regulation. The tire shape you mentioned is determined by the mold profile shape and tire construction. Every manufacturer has their method of achieving specific performance targets through mold profile shape and tire construction for target footprint shape. Great video and keep up the great work. *sorry if there’s any typo in this post. It’s hard to type this on a little window with the phone.
As a former tire development engineer, completely agree with all this. UTQG tread-wear (or really any UTQG test) is a very limited view into tire performance. Generally I don't recommend using the information compared to just looking for real reviews on the tire from external sources. Spider charts are everything ETRTO is definitely the dominant one for p-metric and TRA for LT. I never saw JATMA much but also never did JDM/KDM tires. Target footprint shape is also heavily influenced by tire pressure and vehicle load. OEM tires are designed for the specific vehicle while replacement market tires are designed either for the nominal accd to ETRTO/TRA. Usually performances for aftermarket tires are going to be according to the standardized testing that tire will need to see though handling/ride performance will be based on a reference vehicle(s) the tire supplier chooses.
Enjoyed as always but have you done a segment on the differences between brands? Like have an episode to compare "sports tires" of brands and then "everyday tires" of brands?
Tyre reviews on YT have proper great, real informative testing on alot of popular brand tyres One in particular I learned alot from was the one that showcases the differences between regular Michelin PS4S and OEM fitted BMW/porsche etc Michelin PS4S*.. alot of differences There's alot of cool info out there and I think that channel is awesome for tyre info
the warranties are kinda a scam. I mean if you puncture your tire on a high hp car you typically should replace all 4 especially on AWD, so if you get 1 of em free I guess it might make sense. I always have sets of 3 and use em on cheaper 2wd cars when I have 2 of a kind.
Ordered up some contis. Can’t wait to swap out my pirellis. God I hate Pirelli, I’ve never had a good experience. PZ4 summer tires came on my ride. Not a good combo with 500hp RWD. 7k miles and the rears are almost at the bars. No drag racing, or racing just. Nice back road ripping. Started to get sketchy around 6k. And dreadful in the rain since 3500 miles. Don’t cheap out on tires people. It’s your life and they’ll save your booty.
Idk bro I just get whatever my mechanic has for cheap. I just keep them reasonably fresh and rotate them, then swap as 4. New tyres over premium old tyres. They all have some differences between each brand and construction style but at the end of the day they're gonna pull 1g as any other.
Michelin, bridgestone, yokohama, falken, Nangkang are the best brands is all categories.. For summer/track. Winter.. the only 2 brands i would recomend( winter you really needs good tires(for safe driving) Nokian hakkapulita/bridgestone blizzac
Please recommend a good for a Tesla Model S Plaid (heavy, high torque, staggered) for daily driving in an area that gets the full range of weather. Good dry weather performance, reasonable winter performance, preferably a while.
No mention of date codes, or pressure and weight limit,and zero mention of speed ratings. I COMPLETELY get that this vlog is probably geared towards the young adult who is either drifting, or stanced to hell...... BUT, your YT audience is and could be a lot bigger. A missed opportunity l would call this..... js
Very informative video. Although warranty and such don't matter to me because they don't offer it in my country. The biggest killer of tires in my area is the sun. 90% of tires (excluding accident damage) are dry rotted due to sun exposure. Michelin sell tires that are made in China, I got a set with my new car in 2021 and they are showing signs of dry rot. How would I protect them if I can't park in the shade all the time?
What is the general consensus on Pirelli tires? The new vehicle I'm purchasing is coming on Pirelli Scorpion tires and on my current car I am rocking some cheap Hankook tires, I've noticed a difference on the test drives alone.
Damn man, was looking specifically for treadwear and you flipped my understanding. SO it's usable only within a manufacturer and not even there for some ( nitto ).
I was hoping to finally get the information on how much sidewall goes into the rim, in other words how much sidewall will actually be visible. Because from my understanding the ratio will tell you the whole sidewall size of the "naked" tire. Am I making sense here?
Knowing what you know about tires, how can you cater to these "stance" morons? "Gee, how can I make my car handle like crap and wear the inside in 1000 miles? That's what I want to do."
As someone who rides roadbikes, off road bikes and also drives a bmw e92 335d, I say in any of these cases to always spend as much money on tyres as you can afford without bankrupting yourself. Of course also depending on what you need. don't spend for the sake of it. The gains in safety and performance of a very good tyre will pay dividends when shit hits the fan either in braking or handling. the braking distance between a premium ultra high performance (UHP) tyre and a budget UHP tyre can be up to 10m in wet AND dry conditions. (tyrereviews did a test on that) think about that, when you slap some cheap tyres on your fancy fast car, because you blew your money on dodgy lowering springs. Bought Michelin PS4S for my bmw. no regrets.
I am using Nankang ns2r, perform great on track and are really chep, but i dont have much horsepower/downforce, so i dont know how they perform on mor high end cars
You're description of a Perfect Fitment wheel confuses me and I need a bit more. You say 225/40 on a 8.5" wide wheel will give you a straight vertical face. From what I understand, whatever the listed width is of a wheel, you add an inch to account for the actual lip to lip because width iz measured from bead to bead. So now an 8.5" wide wheel is actually 9.5". Convert that to mm brings you to 241.3mm, so 245/xx should give you a mathematically vertical face. Now there's the sidewall design as you discuss where some have a bend and others are very square but yhis is what I've understood. Why do you say 225 for 8.5?
I can help answer this question. Tires have a standard range of wheel widths that is approved to be safe by the Tire & Rim Association and other standardizing bodies like the European Tyre Rim Technical Organisation. 225/40 has a range from 7.5” to 9.0” wheel widths. So a 8” or 8.5” is right in the middle, with 8.0” being the width that regulatory testing is done on. When Alex is referring to the bend in the sidewall or the tread shape, he’s talking the tires profile. This is determined by the mold profile design. Tire construction has an affect on this also. All manufacturers will have different shapes and dimensions since these are proprietary information. All tire manufacturers have to follow the design guidelines set my TRA and ETRTO for dimensions, like not exceeding the max overall diameter and overall width. Besides that, tires can range largely in width and diameter. That’s why some brand tires are so much width than others, making some tires easier to stretch (construction plays a role also of course) I’m speaking from my field of experience.
@@ProjectPanda13 Ah okay, so per the regulatory bodies a 225 may not be the mathematically perfect flush fitment (compared to the wheel face & lip), but fits safely within the given range. When you say tires can vary in size, are you talking about margainal differences within a specified size (i.e. 225/40 may actually be 220-230mm) or just the general different commercial sizes?
@@tcb_666, for the dimension size difference, a Michelin Pilot Sport 225/40r18 but be 640mm in diameter, while a Bridgestone Potenza in the same nominal size might be 235mm in diameter. The design center from ETRTO for a 225/40r18 is 637mm for diameter with a max diameter of 647mm diameter. It’s the same for the width. It can range between tires as long as it’s under the max a value.
@@tcb_666Bro you are completely right, don't like people confuse you! 😂 The are using the MINIMUM WIDTH for a 8.5 wheel not the IDEAL/SMART/FUNCTIONAL width.
There's not just silicone on the outside of the tire. They use silicone inside the rubber itself because it helps make the tire wear faster. Planned obsolescence. There are many fillers in our rubber today.
This isn't true. Tires come with warranties so the manufacturer would be shooting themselves in the foot. Only 12, percent of consumers have one brand loyalty meaning they'll stick with that brand but 70 percent have general brand warranty meaning they'll buy any national brand if the price is right
The Yokohama Advan Apex is a great budget-minded tire that does great in the canyons and does pretty well on track too. For $214 per front tire and $264 per rear, they're a great deal on my Mustang
I’ve never worn out a tyre (Australian spelling) in my life. I don’t do that many kilometres. Over the last 25 years the furthest I have lived from my workplace is 4km. My tyres get replaced every 5 to 7 years due to the rubber deteriorating. I forgo “longevity” for grip and (driving a convertible) low road noise levels. They get thrown out with the vast majority of their tread still in tact. We also drive on all season tyres here as there is no snow so winter tyres are pointless.
Glad I watched this. Just went with some new tires, the part about treadwear was dead on how I looked at it. *one more thing to mention is that companies may deliver you a tire with different ratings from what is advertised. I thought I was getting a 450 TR but ended up with 500 TR...not really a big deal, but just something to be aware of. I wanted to experiment a bit with softer compounds. Went with Toyo extensa HP 2 coming from the Continental Driveguard 2. I am happy rn. I have put about 300 miles on em and am paying attention.
@@daryltang17 I've run both 245/40/17 and 255/40/17 on a 17x8 and the same two tire sizes on a 17x9. 245 was a little stretched on the 17x9 and 255 was juuuust barely meaty(almost perfectly square). 255/40 was a little too much tire for the 17x8, but was perfect IMO on the 17x9. The extra height of the sidewalls on the 255 also filled out the fenders better. The 255 that I ran was Dunlop Direzza Star Spec and the 245 was Yokohama S.Drive.
In the '80's I had a Firebird V8, non T/A, and bought Yokohama A 008 just on the front, and cornered at 80 MPH in a 25 zone with total control. The car was on rails !! Also had a Ford EXP with Michelin EURO spec tires and you could push that car to some incredible cornering, circa 1987.
Hi Alex,
I wanted to add some support information to your video (as a tire development engineer)
For the UTQG testing, Michelin makes the control reference tire called the Standard Reference Test Tire (SRTT) under Uniroyal. It’s the Tiger Paw. It use to be 14” but since 2021 I believe it was switched to a 16” size because Michelin stopped making the 14”. All tires for UTQG treadwear is tested against this specific tire.
Companies can advertise the given score or lower it as a marketing strategy.
The chart you mentioned is generally called a spider chart.
With regards to tire dimensions, the Tire and Rim Association (TRA), European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation (ETRTO), and Japan Automobile Tyre Manufacturers Association (JATMA) establish the dimensions regulations, generally a max OD and OW for tires. Manufacturers can design tires to be just about any dimension as long as it complies with the regulation.
The tire shape you mentioned is determined by the mold profile shape and tire construction. Every manufacturer has their method of achieving specific performance targets through mold profile shape and tire construction for target footprint shape.
Great video and keep up the great work.
*sorry if there’s any typo in this post. It’s hard to type this on a little window with the phone.
As a former tire development engineer, completely agree with all this. UTQG tread-wear (or really any UTQG test) is a very limited view into tire performance. Generally I don't recommend using the information compared to just looking for real reviews on the tire from external sources.
Spider charts are everything
ETRTO is definitely the dominant one for p-metric and TRA for LT. I never saw JATMA much but also never did JDM/KDM tires.
Target footprint shape is also heavily influenced by tire pressure and vehicle load. OEM tires are designed for the specific vehicle while replacement market tires are designed either for the nominal accd to ETRTO/TRA. Usually performances for aftermarket tires are going to be according to the standardized testing that tire will need to see though handling/ride performance will be based on a reference vehicle(s) the tire supplier chooses.
I know more about tires now, but still not what a Ferrari tastes like. 🙄
Probably a combination of leather, carbon, aluminium and plastic
Tastes almost like a Fiat but with some cologne.
Great overview sir. Thank you
I’ve actually been waiting for this vid for SO LONG
Enjoyed as always but have you done a segment on the differences between brands? Like have an episode to compare "sports tires" of brands and then "everyday tires" of brands?
Tyre reviews on YT have proper great, real informative testing on alot of popular brand tyres
One in particular I learned alot from was the one that showcases the differences between regular Michelin PS4S and OEM fitted BMW/porsche etc Michelin PS4S*.. alot of differences
There's alot of cool info out there and I think that channel is awesome for tyre info
Hi Alex,can you advice which tire for 17/7.5 for my civic 8th gen,i want a square and meaty setup
The Michelin man's name is Bib
the warranties are kinda a scam. I mean if you puncture your tire on a high hp car you typically should replace all 4 especially on AWD, so if you get 1 of em free I guess it might make sense. I always have sets of 3 and use em on cheaper 2wd cars when I have 2 of a kind.
Rubber? I hardly know her
YOU want to talk about useless rubber info? Let me tell you about a story.... about my life.
😭
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R been my all time favorite. Bless whoever traded in that base 370z with a freshish set
Well they're a damn semi-slick.
They will give the best possible grip in dry, less so in the wet.
RE003s are also damn good.
I have seen 80 year old tractor tires that still hold air, and 3 year old new ones with bad weather cracking.
Rubber? I hardly know her!
Liquor?
I don't even know her name yet?
We haven't even kissed yet.
Ordered up some contis. Can’t wait to swap out my pirellis. God I hate Pirelli, I’ve never had a good experience. PZ4 summer tires came on my ride. Not a good combo with 500hp RWD. 7k miles and the rears are almost at the bars. No drag racing, or racing just. Nice back road ripping. Started to get sketchy around 6k. And dreadful in the rain since 3500 miles.
Don’t cheap out on tires people. It’s your life and they’ll save your booty.
But what about those Aliexpress tires? 👀
Death ofc
Idk bro I just get whatever my mechanic has for cheap. I just keep them reasonably fresh and rotate them, then swap as 4. New tyres over premium old tyres. They all have some differences between each brand and construction style but at the end of the day they're gonna pull 1g as any other.
Let's get a video on
20 minutes of useless Kei truck info
Day 24 of How to Modify a Kei Truck
The $uicideboy$ part literally made me laugh out loud. Very true tho stance + $uicideboy$ = 🔥
Man, you guys do such an amazing job of making it simple and easy to understand.
Continental for a daily any time, Cup2 for track (not pro racing).
I love tire
Thanks for this, Alex. Educating the people is crucial these days haha. Also love to see Woyshnis Media’s footage.
Michelin, bridgestone, yokohama, falken, Nangkang are the best brands is all categories..
For summer/track.
Winter..
the only 2 brands i would recomend( winter you really needs good tires(for safe driving)
Nokian hakkapulita/bridgestone blizzac
Please recommend a good for a Tesla Model S Plaid (heavy, high torque, staggered) for daily driving in an area that gets the full range of weather. Good dry weather performance, reasonable winter performance, preferably a while.
I gotta stick with my no name Walmart tires because nobody has both my sizes 🙃
What sizes do you run? Curious now
@@MartiniWorksOfficial 215/35r19 front
225/35r19 rear
No mention of date codes, or pressure and weight limit,and zero mention of speed ratings.
I COMPLETELY get that this vlog is probably geared towards the young adult who is either drifting, or stanced to hell...... BUT, your YT audience is and could be a lot bigger. A missed opportunity l would call this..... js
Very informative video. Although warranty and such don't matter to me because they don't offer it in my country.
The biggest killer of tires in my area is the sun. 90% of tires (excluding accident damage) are dry rotted due to sun exposure.
Michelin sell tires that are made in China, I got a set with my new car in 2021 and they are showing signs of dry rot. How would I protect them if I can't park in the shade all the time?
Conti warranty program is not good.. its a reson why AMG(german) went to Michelin..(frensh) and not Continental tire(german)....
What is the general consensus on Pirelli tires?
The new vehicle I'm purchasing is coming on Pirelli Scorpion tires and on my current car I am rocking some cheap Hankook tires, I've noticed a difference on the test drives alone.
I had pirelli p7 on my golf R, just recently switched them to dws06+ and can say it feels significantly better cornering
Damn man, was looking specifically for treadwear and you flipped my understanding. SO it's usable only within a manufacturer and not even there for some ( nitto ).
I was hoping to finally get the information on how much sidewall goes into the rim, in other words how much sidewall will actually be visible. Because from my understanding the ratio will tell you the whole sidewall size of the "naked" tire. Am I making sense here?
Knowing what you know about tires, how can you cater to these "stance" morons? "Gee, how can I make my car handle like crap and wear the inside in 1000 miles? That's what I want to do."
TBH...stance is overrated...
100% just swapped my lowered mx5 back onto stock suspension and it just drives so much better
As someone who rides roadbikes, off road bikes and also drives a bmw e92 335d, I say in any of these cases to always spend as much money on tyres as you can afford without bankrupting yourself. Of course also depending on what you need. don't spend for the sake of it.
The gains in safety and performance of a very good tyre will pay dividends when shit hits the fan either in braking or handling. the braking distance between a premium ultra high performance (UHP) tyre and a budget UHP tyre can be up to 10m in wet AND dry conditions. (tyrereviews did a test on that)
think about that, when you slap some cheap tyres on your fancy fast car, because you blew your money on dodgy lowering springs.
Bought Michelin PS4S for my bmw. no regrets.
I am using Nankang ns2r, perform great on track and are really chep, but i dont have much horsepower/downforce, so i dont know how they perform on mor high end cars
I have Continental tires on my daily driver. 20,000 miles on them so far, and they still look like brand new. I will easily get 80,000 miles on them.
I'm loyal to motorcycles, and at most, considering an RV. Have no interest in stretching tires. And I still enjoyed this useless info.
Hell yeah dude can't wait for the next one
Thanks for all the info👏🏽,, but what was that playing from 09:00 onwards 🔥?
I hate when tire companies dont show aspect ratios.
215R16
You're description of a Perfect Fitment wheel confuses me and I need a bit more. You say 225/40 on a 8.5" wide wheel will give you a straight vertical face. From what I understand, whatever the listed width is of a wheel, you add an inch to account for the actual lip to lip because width iz measured from bead to bead. So now an 8.5" wide wheel is actually 9.5". Convert that to mm brings you to 241.3mm, so 245/xx should give you a mathematically vertical face. Now there's the sidewall design as you discuss where some have a bend and others are very square but yhis is what I've understood. Why do you say 225 for 8.5?
I can help answer this question. Tires have a standard range of wheel widths that is approved to be safe by the Tire & Rim Association and other standardizing bodies like the European Tyre Rim Technical Organisation.
225/40 has a range from 7.5” to 9.0” wheel widths. So a 8” or 8.5” is right in the middle, with 8.0” being the width that regulatory testing is done on.
When Alex is referring to the bend in the sidewall or the tread shape, he’s talking the tires profile. This is determined by the mold profile design. Tire construction has an affect on this also. All manufacturers will have different shapes and dimensions since these are proprietary information.
All tire manufacturers have to follow the design guidelines set my TRA and ETRTO for dimensions, like not exceeding the max overall diameter and overall width. Besides that, tires can range largely in width and diameter. That’s why some brand tires are so much width than others, making some tires easier to stretch (construction plays a role also of course)
I’m speaking from my field of experience.
@@ProjectPanda13 Ah okay, so per the regulatory bodies a 225 may not be the mathematically perfect flush fitment (compared to the wheel face & lip), but fits safely within the given range.
When you say tires can vary in size, are you talking about margainal differences within a specified size (i.e. 225/40 may actually be 220-230mm) or just the general different commercial sizes?
@@tcb_666, for the dimension size difference, a Michelin Pilot Sport 225/40r18 but be 640mm in diameter, while a Bridgestone Potenza in the same nominal size might be 235mm in diameter. The design center from ETRTO for a 225/40r18 is 637mm for diameter with a max diameter of 647mm diameter.
It’s the same for the width. It can range between tires as long as it’s under the max a value.
@@tcb_666Bro you are completely right, don't like people confuse you! 😂 The are using the MINIMUM WIDTH for a 8.5 wheel not the IDEAL/SMART/FUNCTIONAL width.
I honestly really appreciate this video. Extremely educational.
- Eau Claire
What is your opinion on Toyo? Would you happen to know anything about the Toyo Extensa a/s ii?
20 minutes of tires and not a single mention of Fullway smh
There's not just silicone on the outside of the tire. They use silicone inside the rubber itself because it helps make the tire wear faster. Planned obsolescence.
There are many fillers in our rubber today.
This isn't true. Tires come with warranties so the manufacturer would be shooting themselves in the foot. Only 12, percent of consumers have one brand loyalty meaning they'll stick with that brand but 70 percent have general brand warranty meaning they'll buy any national brand if the price is right
The Yokohama Advan Apex is a great budget-minded tire that does great in the canyons and does pretty well on track too. For $214 per front tire and $264 per rear, they're a great deal on my Mustang
I’ve never worn out a tyre (Australian spelling) in my life. I don’t do that many kilometres. Over the last 25 years the furthest I have lived from my workplace is 4km. My tyres get replaced every 5 to 7 years due to the rubber deteriorating. I forgo “longevity” for grip and (driving a convertible) low road noise levels. They get thrown out with the vast majority of their tread still in tact. We also drive on all season tyres here as there is no snow so winter tyres are pointless.
Glad I watched this. Just went with some new tires, the part about treadwear was dead on how I looked at it.
*one more thing to mention is that companies may deliver you a tire with different ratings from what is advertised. I thought I was getting a 450 TR but ended up with 500 TR...not really a big deal, but just something to be aware of. I wanted to experiment a bit with softer compounds. Went with Toyo extensa HP 2 coming from the Continental Driveguard 2. I am happy rn. I have put about 300 miles on em and am paying attention.
Tire stats. Buffs & Debuffs
Tyres go from wildly mundane to insanely complex the milisecond you look up any amount of data about them
Banger!
Love this, Alex!
Should I align my truck before or after brand new tires?
What a relaxing and "useless" 20 minutes💪
Wait, did achilles and acelera is now being sold in US?
What tire width to perfectly fit a 9” wide wheel?
245 or 255 depending on sidewall height. It's also very different if talking about huge sidewall truck tires vs lower profile performance tires.
@@SecretSauceyjuice thanks. It’s a 17x9 hatchback. Looking at 245/45/17
In this case. The side wall height is about 110~
@@daryltang17 I've run both 245/40/17 and 255/40/17 on a 17x8 and the same two tire sizes on a 17x9. 245 was a little stretched on the 17x9 and 255 was juuuust barely meaty(almost perfectly square). 255/40 was a little too much tire for the 17x8, but was perfect IMO on the 17x9. The extra height of the sidewalls on the 255 also filled out the fenders better.
The 255 that I ran was Dunlop Direzza Star Spec and the 245 was Yokohama S.Drive.
We love your independence
In the '80's I had a Firebird V8, non T/A, and bought Yokohama A 008 just on the front, and cornered at 80 MPH in a 25 zone with total control.
The car was on rails !! Also had a Ford EXP with Michelin EURO spec tires and you could push that car to some incredible cornering, circa 1987.