I think you are absolutely right and I felt the same way. I got the CD on release day and I had figured couple of days before that there was only 7 tracks. I knew there was deluxe version but I was a bit hesitant to get it. I thought about selling the CD back to the store and upgrading to the box but I gave up that idea. So I went home and saw the 10 tracks in Spotify and I felt really bad. Then I went to the MP3-site that I use and saw 10 tracks there too. So I bought the remaining 3 tracks as MP3's and ripped the 7 tracks of the CD. Then I printed an album cover with letters P/T C/C +3. So now with some work I have the superdeluxe version of the album as I have a physical album with all the tracks and no need to switch discs in the middle. I would have been more okay with this 7/10 situation if the tracks were released later on some EP. This was kinda expected after Future Bites. That album had only 9 tracks but it has been expanded later and the Spotify version has now no less than 30 tracks! I feel a bit strange with all these versions but I still think it's good that Steven wants to create compact quality albums without filler tracks. He has many times said how much he admires the original version of The Seeds Of Love by Tears For Fears, which has only 8 finely crafted songs. With these latest two albums I think he has wanted to do the same. All killer no filler.
Hi, thank you for watching. I have mellowed a bit over this but would still have like all 10 tracks on a physical item. I also have to respect the artist and the vision they have for what we think is an album. Many new artists only really think of music as single track releases so maybe we need to see some tracks as part of the artists vision for a physical album and the others as stand alone tracks. Phil
The bonus tracks are absolutely killer, no filler.. they would be among the stand out tracks if they were put on the regular CD. Then a next dilemma pops up: which bonus tracks to put on the DeLuxe Edition? Let’s say: 3 new ones. “Problem” with PT: most bonus tracks they come up with are fantastic. There’s no filler. Then you want them on the main CD as well. Ir’s a perpetuum mobile. That’s why I always buy DeLuxe Editions for PT and SW - they never disappoint. So all in all, we are talking about a real luxury problem here.
I agree with all you're saying here! It goes even deeper here if you're into audiophile stuff. If you get the Deluxe CD/Blu-ray edition, you get the 7 "standard" tracks on CD1, which are presented in standard "CD" quality of 16/44.1 CD2 contains the additional 3 "bonus" tracks PLUS the instrumentals, also presented in "CD" quality of 16/44.1. For the Blu-ray, here is where it gets interesting AND disappointing: you get JUST the 7 tracks in hi-res stereo 24/96, 5.1 surround and Atmos. NONE of the additional tracks are included on the Blu-ray. This is pretty much a crappy oversight. If you look at the Deluxe CD/Blu-ray for Steven Wilson's Hand Cannot Erase, you get all the tracks, plus instrumentals, alternate mixes and even the documentary on the blu-ray, all in Hi-res format. For people looking for a complete collection of the album and it's bonus content in hi-res format, this is appropriately packaged. C/C is sorely lacking in this.....to the point that i'm not sure why they even did it. I can log into Qobuz and stream all 10 tracks in hi-res, but sadly the instrumentals are absent. It really is perplexing.
Hi Andrew, thank you for watching and for mentioning Hand Connot Erase. It was this that made me feel the current deluxe offering was not up to what had gone before. Phil
Hi Rene, thank you for watching, so many music fans feel the same. I hope more people find this video and eventually the record label or even Steven Wilson. Phil
Very Good Points and Comes to a Person Willingness and Having Enough Money to Purchase the 3 CD Deluxe or 1 CD or Vinyl Albums? Some People Buy a Mercedes’ or Others by Like Me Buy a Hyundai! Or U Can Download Entire 10 Tracks at Amazon too! But a Great Album and I Give it Ten Out Of Ten Track’s! It Was a Grower Over Many Listens For Me…
Full disclosure, I did not read all the comments, so this might have already been said, but the deluxe is strictly about the surround mix! I’m so amazed people aren’t more into that! The real issue for me is the super high ticket prices for the live show.that’s way out of a lot of peoples range. Oh well, I’ll wait for the Blu-ray I guess! Cheers
Hi, thank you for watching, I love 5.1 mixes but would have thought the Blu Ray would have had all the tracks as well. I guess live concerts are where artists try and balance the books with the money taken by streaming but I have stopped going now due to the price of tickets. Phil
@@kevinbossick8374 I agree. Even Pink Floyd is releasing the Animals remix as a 5.1 Blu-ray, sold separately. But, ya, I’m not super impressed with the packaging concept. Albums great though!
Love in the Past Tense is one of my favourite Porcupine Tree songs full stop, let alone one of the best songs in the Deluxe Set. All three should be album tracks, without a doubt and it sucks that they can't be had on the physical release without paying extortionate money. This video is great and I sincerely hope that the inevitable reissue in a few years time includes these tracks as standard. Looking at Hand Cannot Erase, it was rereleased last year (or this), so there isn't long between his reissue output (granted a few years, but he has form for this at least).
I bought the album on iTunes which seems like the best way to go for this release. Still waiting for the physical cd to ship only to have for the collection. I did order only to cancel the deluxe version after seeing unboxing videos. Then they released the deluxe digitally off the PT website for $7.99. Bizarre.
Hi Phil from Australia once again. As a veteran record store manager, I am convinced that the issue here comes down to the record company. Over the years I seen loyal record buyers ripped off dozens of times by the exploitation of the record companies trying to eek out every last cent from a product. Numerous times I’ve seen albums on the market selling for a number of months while the artist has a non album hit single. The song is quickly tacked on to the album leaving the the buyer of the original release highly pissed off and venting at store staff. Constantly re-released classics said to to be the the ultimate version have flooded the market. The Doors catalog has been released 4 times, each time claiming to be the ultimate remaster. Dark Side Of The Moon, Tubular Bells and Bat Out Of Hell have had 25, 30, 35 & 40 year releases claiming the latest version is sonically better than the previous version. Ultimately the poor hardcore fan continues to shell out money. For the past few years The Stones have been releasing ultimate remaster/remixes of classic albums in some cases being the 3rd remaster. To the artist, it’s a windfall, to the record company it’s exploitation.
Lex, good post. I'm a big fan of the Physical format. Whether vinyl or CD ( Blu Ray, SACD or basic CD) if well recorded will sound better than an overly compressed streamIng of music. Plus the physical format, provides art, pictures, liner notes, etc that you can look at. With vinyl sales up for the 14th year in a row and CD sales up for the first time since 2005, you would think the record companies would make sure that the packaging is first rate with all the songs included in the various formats in a first time release. The deluxe package can have the CD with the studio tracking rough mix, instrumental versions of the tracks or the Blu Ray or SACD with 5.1 mix. Add the nice art book. It is a deluxe package. But, for the person who only has $20 to spend, let them be able to get the released recorded tracks for that album and not have to spend $50 - $100 to get those bonus tracks. As for the remix or remaster of an album, it depends. An album as well recorded as Supertramp's Crime of the Century, Pink Floyd's DSOTM, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours or Steely Dan's Aja, it's probably not getting much better. I can understand the remixing/ remastering for 5.1when it became an option with SACD or later Blu Ray. If there were tracks that were recorded that did not make the original release because it was not up to standards of the rest of the tracks, time constraints, etc, fine. Jethro Tull was known back in the day for recording a whole bunch of songs, picking what they wanted for the album and putting the rest in the vault. Release it down the road. Just don't do that 2 years from now. Some albums, like Yes's Relayer is a favorite among Yes and Prog fans. Great music and performances with Yes doing their best Mahavisnu Orchestra or Return to Forever impression. The production, however was not good. Steven Wilson did a very good job of remixing that album. Just a much better version than the original release. But yeah, I know where you are coming from. Do we need another remastered version of Miles Davis Kind of Blue? Because there are already some great versions of that album.
Hi Lex, thank you for watching and for your excellent comment on this situation. I agree with you totally. There is a fine line between a music fan feeling excited about a new release, even if it’s another reissue and feeling ripped off. Phil
Hi Missy, I have a weakness in buying almost anything that says ‘remixed by Steven Wilson’ and his attention to detail is usually beyond reproach. But somewhere along the line it feels he got distracted here… or I hope so! Phil
I never liked Bowies ‘The Next Day’ album cover. I understand the whole connection of a retired artist releasing a new and secret album onto an unsuspecting public and I am glad they did it. I am all for ‘The Next Day’ - ‘On The New Day’ SURPRISE! But not that artwork booklet they gave us. It is rather a joke. I never like Lassie Hole and his PT artwork either, but at least it was better than what we are getting with this new one. I also understand saving money by packing everything in an LP format box. But I do not have any records on my shelf, so I do not need some giant box for my CD’s, especially when those CD’s do not even have their own holders. I have never played a Blu-ray album, so I did not need that either, though I might like it. So bad booklet and bad box, do I really need to spend $69 for 3 songs? I waited for release day to see what others said about the Deluxe version instrumental tracks (still waiting). But by that morning the deluxe version had already doubled in price. I thought I would just buy it from iTunes - but they only had 9 songs for sale. So I bought the CD, for $7 more than I would have paid pre-order - and waited a week for it to come over from the UK. I then went to Amazon and downloaded the extra 3 tracks - and for some reason was not charged for them. Then I made a CDR which is better than the actual album. So in the end I am happy and I am glad I did not buy the deluxe version. After all, the cover could have looked worse; it could have looked like In Absentia!
brilliant band....lot of there stuff remind me of early floyd....but yeah PT rule........"in absentia"is me fav. steve wilson rules, he reminds me of devin townsend.
Those 3 tracks are excellent and should have been there on 1 or 2CD's. I bought the deluxe but the artwork and package was not very good so not worth it.
Interesting topic, I recenty purchased a few old Scorpions albums (Blackout, Animal Magnetism & Love at First Sting) on vinyl that included cd versions of the album, also bought recent albums on vinyl by the brilliant Scott Matthews from England called 'The Great Untold' & 'New Skin' from his website that included cd versions at no extra cost, surely Porcupine Tree could so similar?
Hi, Thank you for watching. I am certain this would have been the case up until recently. Buying the vinyl album with the CD included is quite common but even if they had done this option the album would still have been incomplete. Phil
Agreed. Bought the Spec Ed CD/BluRay and Deluxe Vinyl on pre-order. Plus three other vinyl variations asap thereafter. The supposed Deluxe versions are a real let down. Not the music as it's great, but compared to other PT and SW Deluxe versions this album pales in comparison. Is this the fault of the label or the band? Who knows. But anyway, for the first time EVER I will not be pre-ordering the next SW or PT album until I know the full content. Feel a little bit used...
Just wondering Phil if it wasn't the label doing it like they did with The Quest by Yes.The label only wanted so much time on the disc.But they could of had a two disc version out also.Who knows what goes on with some wacky stuff in the music business.I purchased the box set and was disappointed with the layout.Nothing great in the booklet,no bonus tracks like demos,but I always fall for the 5.1 mix.That's my achilles heel
If it includes the bonus tracks its even better they should be actual album tracks as they are so good On Spotify it includes the bonus tracks On to the album its excellent
Well the 45rpm triple clear vinyl album has 9 tracks on it so that's not too bad and the audio quality is great, but I totally agree with you about everything, especially too many different versions and editions in which he milks his fanbase in hard times!
I feel ripped off as well in that regard. I wanted to buy the CD with the extra tracks but there wasn't an option. So I have the CD and have to go to Spotify to listen to the other 3. Absurd.
Hi Juan, thank you for watching, that is exactly how I feel. He has really dropped the ball here and not thought this through on how the fans that like to buy the physical album will feel. Phil
There was, of course, a very vigorous sales campaign last year, encouraging pre-orders for a mid 2022 release. I think that told us how the label was going to treat fans. It was a ridiculous amount of time to be collecting money versus actual delivery of product and I said so at the time. And now, when the product is delivered, we find they've actually treated streamers better than purchasers of a physical copy. I really like SW, bought the audiobook of his biography recently, and I think he's had nothing to do with this. With that being said, he arguably needs to get involved, because it's his band's reputation that risks being diminished by this regrettable exercise in taking advantage of his biggest fans, i.e. those who will buy physical copies of output. Further, this is not a time to be chintzing people and acting like all is well economically for a lot of folks. If physical copy sales start to suffer, then labels need to consider giving customers much more, not much less, for their hard earned cash.
Hi Chris, thank you for sharing this excellent comment here as well as the Facebook Group. Judging by the other comments here ( and elsewhere) either the label or Steven Wilson himself has scored an own goal by giving the streaming community a better deal. Phil
Are you purposely forgetting to mention that most folk bought the physical media so early due to them having the slightest of teensiest weensiest of chances of actually buying a ticket for the live dates.
@@chriswright5016 SW has been involved in many poor business models in recent years, usually in his habit of milking the fanbase with as many coloured vinyl editions as their are digits on your hands and feet (slight exaggerate but sentiment noted). There are by far too many Limited Edition in White, Limited Edition in Red, Limited Edition in Blue, Limited Edition in Yellow, Limited Edition in Orange, Limited Edition in Green, Limited Edition in Silver, Limited Edition in Gold, Limited Edition in Clear and then standard Black Vinyl.... You see my problem is we see nine different availble colours of vinyl alone not to mention the various other media formats, for the ease of calculation let's make it 10 colours of vinyl, now if he presses 1000 copies of each then there's an immediate 10,000 albums pressed and he like other artists will have a hardcore of fans who will buy each and every colour. Now 1000 hardcore fans from around the whole World is not impossible for someone like SW so there is 10,000 albums snapped up by 1000 fans alone when there are another possible 9000 fans just wanting to own one copy in one colour that have to do without owning one copy alone because 1000 fans own ten copies each and those 1000 fans who own 10 albums each only need one album after all, one to play but these c**ts want one to play and one to store away unopened. Sadly though quite a lot of those unreasonable collectors will want two copies of each colour which will reduce the amount of copies available and when you throw opportunists into the mix who buy loads of copies knowing that within weeks when they sell out they can post on discogs and ebay for unrealistic prices because they just want to make a quick quid by exploiting the fans and have no real interest in actually owning and/or playing the vinyl!
It would be interesting to get a business insider's view on this and how the decision was made. I guess that ultimately it'll be down to optimising revenue. I do wonder though what went through his mind when he was sequencing the album, how those extra tracks would've slotted in and why he rejected them.
The 3 extra tracks are, for me, stronger than some of the material on the official album especially Dignity. BTW The 3 lp 45rpm i believe, contains 2 of the extra tracks so, in essence, if you want the 3 lp vinyl copy it is about £54 and you then have to then fork out roughly the same for the cd-blu ray to obtain the other 'extra' track (although this may not even be the case...not sure). In the end all the extra tracks could easily fit onto a double vinyl album. The band's last album 'The Incident' contained an additional extra c.d with 4 additional tracks so surely same could be the case for this record? As such this is an obvious marketing ploy and in these financially stringent times i don't think it shows empathy for the fans. Also may i mention that Tool's Fear Inoculum was released as a 5 vinyl album edition retailing at £185 in my local record store not long back, which, on August 5th, will now be released as a 3 album edition for £54. All just a marketing rip off ploy methinks.
Barrie, You are correct. There are only two bonus tracks included on the three vinyl deluxe version of PTCC. Love in the Past Tense is left off. I know this is supposed to be the audiophile version of this release it being cut at 45 RPM and placed on 180 gram vinyl. Generally ideal length per side is 9-12 minutes for vinyl cut at 45 RPM. However, 15-16 minutes is doable, while still having an excellent sounding recording. Same thing with 33 RPM vinyl. Ideal is 15-19 minutes, but an excellent sounding vinyl recording can be cut with lengths 20-23 minutes. On the PTCC deluxe vinyl, three sides have only one song. A side has Harridan, C side has Dignity and F side Chimera's Wreck. Since it's not a concept album and the track listing is different anyway on the deluxe vs other available versions, there is no reason why Love in the Past Tense ( 5:50 minutes) could not have been placed on the A side with Harridan or C side with Dignity and come in under 15 minutes on that side. Jazz artist Patricia Barber had her excellent Cafe Blue re-released by Impex Records. It's roughly about 63 minutes cut at 45 RPM and they were able to get it on a double album. By the, way, look at this packaging for Cafe Blue. For $125 dollars, you get a 1 Step recording process, using the best vinyl ( VR 900 Super Vinyl) at 180 grams. The two vinyls are housed in a gatefold heavy duty 3 sleeve jacket. A nice booklet is placed in the middle jacket. The vinyl album comes in a classy cloth bound slipcase. Oh, by the way, the album is Mastered by legendary engineer Kevin Gray too. No shortcuts. This is what the PTCC deluxe vinyl package should be. Yes Barber's cost $35 dollars more, but the packaging is far nicer and includes 1 step recording process. You don't feel like you are getting ripped off as no corners were cut. If it was a typical 3 Step, like PTCC, Barber's album would be in the $60-80 range. Now compare Barber's Cafe Blue packaging at that range to PTCC deluxe vinyl packaging and it would be embarrassing.
@@ciciusss many thanks for your superb and HIGHLY informative commentary. For me Love In The Past Tense is one of the strongest tracks so to leave it off the 45rpm version is very poor.
Hi Missy, thank you for taking the time to write this, it is very useful and informative and offers great insight into what could have been done. I would like to add this to the website post if that is ok? Phil
Actually a separate 2 cd or CD+blu-ray (2 disc set would be an idea. People were getting used to record labels forcing artists to make 12 track length records. 8 tracks @ 50 mins (this album) is a good balance, focused and to the point. 1/4 of the tracks on a 12 track album aren't the strongest. This how vinyl was
I was one of the suckers who bought the £55 deluxe version. Now in the past SW and PTree releases have usually been really nice quality. Just to quote what I have mentioned elsewhere "compare this to other SW related deluxe versions and it feels cheap, the book is a load of arty nonsense with bunches of white squares just obscuring pictures...is this really supposed to be some high brow statement - or more the emperor's new clothes? At first I thought it was a printing error ha! The book title "What You See Is What You Think You See." - I think I see me being sold a pig in a poke. The CD housing itself feels cheap and a bit naff - the artwork....stickers stuck onto white card completes that naff concept - one of them on the back of the main box has developed a long bubble from the centre to the top of the sticker where the adhesive is failing so sticking it down again has left a line now!!! Definite deluxe version rip off when you compare it to what went before, plus the overlong wait after pre-ordering, put pre orders up a month or so before the release not 6 months. Having bought / pre ordered all the SW (and PTrees The Incident) deluxe versions I feel totally let down by the quality of this and it'll make me think twice next time - but maybe FOMO will get the upper hand :( Considering the content 2CDS a Blu ray, a thin booklet with little merit going for it, main album artwork that is basically stickers on cardboard this is a £30 value box at most, to retail at £55 is comical. Good job the album is great".
Hi Nick, you experience and others like it, is what inspired this video. Steven Wilson created a standard when it came to deluxe box sets and this is nothing like them. Phil
I ended up getting the porcupine tree on iTunes because the CDs were just totally overpriced. Of course the digital version does have the three extra tracks. I do think they are ripping us off by doing that the way they’re doing though. But I am not going to pay a huge price for a CD that should be normal priced and could just have the 10 tracks on it
Hi Phil, I thought I would share some semi-recent "feeling-ripped-off" releases,(one that you mentioned, being the two disc version of Black Sabbath's "13" ...they could have fitted it all on one disc) more recent is the "Senjutsu" album from Iron Maiden. They could have easily shortened a couple of minutes of a rather boring album, and put it all on one disc...so go figure?? Hence the rip-off feeling. It would be interesting to hear about why on Black Sabbath "the End" tour (DVD,CD), they did not play anything from the "13" album (or "never say die") ??? Oh well, carry-on
Hi Stan, I am with you on the Sabbath album 13. I guess for the End Tour they felt there was no room in the set and the whole thing was based on looking back and not forwards. Phil
Hi Phil, I was a massive Porcupine Tree fan from the very beginning and bought everything including singles. However, I lost interest in the last few SW and PT releases, just something about the recent music that I didn't get. However, I've read some interesting reviews of this album so will make the effort to stream some tracks and see if I'm back on board. However, one big issue for me is packaging which, for me, is a big part of the artifact I'm buying, sure the music is everything but packaging is part of the value. This album and the last SW album artwork and the so called deluxe box for the SW album were nothing short of taking the p@#s!. I'm sure SW is making some sort of artistic statement with this minimalist and blanking out artwork but for the punter being asked to shell out hard earned money it really is disrespectful and disappointing. Add in the missing music you have to shell out separately for and, yes, the 'fan' is being laughed at. Is SW really being driven by record company pressures?, I very much doubt someone of his standing has nothing to do with the overall packaging and marketing. Artists have to make a living but where is the line between value and rip-off?
Hi Ian, thank you for watching and I did hesitate before making this video and then after seeing other people talking about thought I should just say how I feel. I do think this will damage his reputation because he has always been seen as on the side of the music fan. Phil
Hi Ian, thank you for watching and I did hesitate before making this video and then after seeing other people talking about thought I should just say how I feel. I do think this will damage his reputation because he has always been seen as on the side of the music fan. Phil
Hi Phil, sorry to hear your disappointment. Sometimes the edition you want (in this case a 2cd)is released at a later date after everyone has already forked out for the deluxe. Might not be the case here but that sort of thing does happen. Doesn`t feel right you can stream those extra tracks for virtually nothing but don`t have them on the physical version. Hope your next purchase is better!
Hi Sjhue, thank you for watching. I am never usually negative and this is a fabulous album, but I feel I must use what influence I might have in being honest about how I feel on the music I review. Phil
I got the digital download as FLAC from Porcupine Tree during the 2 week window they made it available. This gave me everything FLAC including the 3 bonus tracks as well as all the tracks as instrumentals too. Further I also got the booklet as full quality PDF download too. How much was this? An impressive £ 4.99 which I thought was pretty amazing albeit that the Flac's are 44.1 16 Bit but hey that's CD quality anyway. I hate the artwork and for me a bit like The Future Bites this is a step too far as a concept. None of the merchandise has any appeal to me with the whole white square just art for art concepts sake. Its a waste of paper to me whereas had they used Lasse it could have been so opulent and genuinely nice. I really don't get the lack of inclusion of the 3rd bonus track on the Vinyl edition. Its not as if the set was cheap as it was. I don't think this is PT's fault I think this is the issue when you go with a bigger record company who just milk it for what its worth. Its a shame though that Steven did not put his foot down over this as it spoils things a little. As for the nonsense about the 3 bonus tracks being the best 3 tracks that really is just utter nonsense they are good but the best tracks are on the main release. Yes they are worth having but come on lets be real here! I do feel the digital download was the real bargain here. All the music for less than a fiver! Unreal. But I can imagine those of you who bought box sets and vinyl do feel a tad ruffled at not getting everything.
So did I, Roy, and I only got the CD, so was very happy to get the bonus tracks AND the instrumentals for what amounts to a trip to Burger King or something. Regarding the third bonus track missing from the 45RPM deluxe vinyl, apparently 'Love in the Past Tense' wasn't finished as a track before the vinyl had to be cut and mass produced ready to meet pre-order shipping, so they had to take it out of the running order. It's a shame they couldn't get everything ready in time, and I agree that there should have been a 2CD version with the bonus tracks on the second disc, but it very much feels like the label went a little overboard, so much so that they couldn't right the ship once it started to capsize. All that was needed was standard download, CD and vinyl in a variety of colours, 2CD, 3CD and deluxe clear vinyl with the bonus tracks inserted into the running order. Push the album back a week and that would have all been achieveable.
Allow me to take the role of devil's advocate here, the PT album with the extra tracks goes to where there are the most listeners-streaming. Think of it as further enticement to bring new customers to the streaming services by adding a little "extra" for the monthly fee. The disgust you feel for purchasing the physical media, regardless of version or format, is suppose to drive you into streaming and dump physical media for good. No doubt, you feel short changed or cheated but I would put blame on PT's record company/publishers. Or you can wait a year for the next Record Store Day when an more deluxe edition is released(only on vinyl) with those extra tracks included. Honestly, I'm surprised others have not done this already.
@@NowSpinningMagazine My reaction when they published the release was exactly the same as yours Phil. I was so outraged. Sometimes some decisions do not make sense.
@@NowSpinningMagazine Nil Recurring and Fear of a Blank Planet could also fit on a single CD (as they do on the deluxe black vinyl), but nobody complains because the album was designed as six songs and 50 minutes of music, with perhaps weaker (though barely) tracks forming the EP released some time later. It was carefully sequenced too, and I personally think the black vinyl track order and bloated length is unnecessary and takes away from the experience of the base album. Similarly, they designed C/C to be 7 tracks and 48 minutes of music, and the three tracks that were left out were determined to be too old-fashioned in sound, offering little in the way of growth that's seen on the album proper. I pre-ordered the album and was offered the chance to purchase the entire £55 deluxe CD edition tracks for £3.99 as a digital download, altogether spending less than £20. That came as a very nice surprise, but I knew from the first day the track list was revealed that they had created an album from available tracks, sequenced it very carefully as they always do, and a future EP was perhaps in the works; while that didn't happen (though a 2CD version might well happen in the future), it was clear that the three bonus tracks were never intended to represent the album, just like Nil Recurring was never meant to represent Fear of a Blank Planet, despite being recorded for that very purpose and cast aside once a stronger album presented itself. This, for me at least, is a non issue.
I'm sick and tired of artists releasing albums in this piecemeal fashion. In the good old days, if someone released an album and you bought a copy, you KNEW you had the complete album. Regardless if you had a cassette, CD or vinyl, everyone had the same content and what that album was comprised of was clearly defined. In their rush to have the public buying multiple versions of a release containing different content to rack up sales, they are assisting in killing off the concept of the album as an artistic statement. Short term thinking for a quick few quid.
@@austinwoods466 I just realized that today. Finally received it in the mail. The book is worthless, but I do enjoy the music. Also the DTS has little to no bass. It’s better with the Dolby though.
Phil, Agreed. The three bonus tracks, Population Three, Never Have and Love in the Past Tense are, in my opinion, after Harridan and Chimera's Wreck the strongest tracks on the album. Adding these bonus tracks takes the album from 48 minutes to 65 minutes, easily doable for a CD and a double album running at 33 RPM. Instead you have to get the deluxe CD package that cost nearly 5 times more in the US to get those bonus tracks. Yes it's a 2 CD + BRD and 60+ page Art Book package. Usually, that would be fine, but in this case the Art Booklet is a big disappointment. The pictures have a big white square in the middle, which is aggravating. But, even without that what is there looks uninspired ( in contrast to the music). Typically, PT and Steven Wilson solo releases have Art Books that are really well done. Even the inserts in the basic CDs were well done, usually consisting of 16 - 20 pages with interesting art, pictures, lyrics and band and recording information. With this release, however, the PTCC CD has a foldout that looks like it belongs in a 1980s era tape. It's bad. It's even worse for the deluxe vinyl. Yes, it's a 3 vinyl 180 gram set cut at 45 RPM. That's where the good news ends. Because, of the 45 RPM vinyl, you only get two of the bonus tracks. Love in the Past Tense is not included. Nor, is the Art Book. Nor, are the sleeves polylined. This package cost $90 dollars. If a label like Analogue, Craft or Impex that is marketed to the Audiophile community released this, it would have been done with the vinyl housed in a polylined sleeve and placed in a nice substantial gatefold jacket that would be housed in a nice slip case with a well thought out booklet. In the Audiophile community, you expect to spend anywhere from $60 to $125. But, you know the vinyl is going to be the highest grade, mastered well, 180 gram with tip-on jackets, maybe 1 step vinyl pressing if at the $100-$125 range. But, that's not the case here. The vinyl on the PTCC deluxe version appears to be top notch and is attractive, substantial 180 gram vinyl. The rest of the package, at this price point, leaves much to be desired. At least the music and performances are excellent.
Hi Missy, thank you for watching and for your very detailed response. You have put into words what I feel and illustrated very clearly how many Porcupine Tree fans are feeling about this. Phil
I won’t buy the deluxe version. Too expansive for me. I will stream the 3 tracks. With a little luck we’ll get an expanded with live material. Hopefully will get them then.
I am a huge Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree fan, and have purchased all of the Hi Res Surround releases , as they are just sublime. I was completely perplexed at how Steven has now jumped in on the rip off deluxe package hosing. At a $100+ here in Canada, I decided against it. I only want the Blu Ray and refuse to contribute to this. It's the first time I didn't buy show tickets since I became a fan in 2006. The whole reunion thing feels insincere, and a bit of a rip off in my opinion. Hoping the stand alone blu ray might be a possibility in the future. Oh well.
Hi Duane, thank you for watching. I am the same as you. I always saw SW as separate to the major labels and a music fan who also released music. I feel more like a number after this. Phil
No es solo el aspecto de dejar fuera esas tres canciones, es tambien la calidad del empaque de esa edicion deluxe. Es muy pobre y los discos en esas pestañas de carton! Y por ese precio... es muy triste ver el declive en calidad y el poco respeto por el fan. Lo mismo sucedió con el nuevo set de C/C Live... no creo que compre ese nuevo album en directo. La calidad del empaque es pesima ademas de costosa.
I disagree. The seven main songs make for a better album flow absent the three "extra" tracks - which I'm glad are a separate item. Most artists who record extra options when creating an album just throw those tracks away - here you have the OPPORTUNITY to go get them if you want. And why is anyone surprised by this? Wilson and PT have been releasing extra tracks separately since as far back as In Absentia. Every single record he/they have done since then has had different versions (with and without extra tracks not part of the main album). This is part of how modern music sales/marketing has been forced to operate in the "I demand my music be free" generation. Or do you not think they deserve to make a living of of their music? Why can't you focus on the fact that brilliant musicians are putting out some excellent music and you have a choice of how much of it to consume?
Hi Tim, thank you for watching and sharing your comment. I buy a lot of Steven Wilson Deluxe sets as he is one of my favourite artists. The Hand, Cannot Erase deluxe set seemed to include everything so I was expecting something similar. Your opinion is just as valid as mine, so thank you again. Phil
Sorry but Wilson is no genius. You are correct about everything else except, the music is OK but nothing new, regurgitation of the highest order. I've said enough already about this release. Totally agree except it is not the record company, Wilson always does this multiple releases of the same thing. The deluxe edition is usually good though but not here, it's piss poor. I don't believe a word he says, he is full of contradiction, a used car salesman. People like Zappa and Miles Davis are geniuses, Wilson isn't fit to wipe their arses I'm afraid. Nevermind, there is other music out there. Good video 👍
Hi Stuart, thank you for watching. We might differ on how we perceive Mr Wilson’s musical talents but I am 100% with you on how this multiple options comes across. I think what he thought was clever marketing will damage his reputation more than he thinks. Phil
I feel that this is complaining for the sake of complaining. Porcupine Tree DID NOT have to reform. They DID NOT have to release new material. But here we are, in 2022, with a new Porcupine Tree album. OK, the "main" album does not have the three bonus tracks. So what. When Fear of a Blank Planet was released, the "extra" songs were put on a separate EP and I don't remember seeing or hearing one complaint about that. Quit bitching and be thankful they released anything at all. And if you don't like the way it's released... don't buy it! How simple is that? This kind of shit is why we can't have nice things...
I agree that we want nice things. The deluxe version of Hand, Cannot Erase was a very nice item and the level of detail and what it included was exceptional. This time the deluxe version for roughly the same price is not even in the same ball park. You are right they did not need to release a new album but they did and also chose to release it on multiple formats knowing some fans would buy more than one. You viewport is just as valid as mine but looking through the comments here and elsewhere many fans feel a bit miffed with the package and not the music.
@@NowSpinningMagazine I definitely see your (and others) point of view, and I understand and respect it. My view on the packaging, and this is just my opinion, is that it could be that the band decided to go with a more "minimalistic" approach since the deluxe package for The Incident was pretty detailed even though the music was not as strong to them. Also, as someone else mentioned, it could very well come down to the record company saying "we'll release it but it can only have this much as far as the deluxe package is concerned since you haven't released anything new in 13 years." I suppose that these "deluxe editions" can be called hit or miss, and I think it depends on the mindset and type of fan you are. For me, as a Porcupine Tree fan, I think this deluxe edition is perfectly fine. But then I look at the "super deluxe" of Kiss' Destroyer album, and I think it's too much and too expensive, but that could just be down to the fact that I am not a huge Kiss fan. But other people like it and will pay for it, so more power to them. As I said, I'm just happy we got something from PT and choose to enjoy it.
@@zoan2013 you say everything that brings us together in your last sentence where you mention you are just pleased PT released this album. At the end of the day it’s about the music and i agree it’s a great album! Thank you - Phil
I think you are absolutely right and I felt the same way. I got the CD on release day and I had figured couple of days before that there was only 7 tracks. I knew there was deluxe version but I was a bit hesitant to get it. I thought about selling the CD back to the store and upgrading to the box but I gave up that idea. So I went home and saw the 10 tracks in Spotify and I felt really bad. Then I went to the MP3-site that I use and saw 10 tracks there too. So I bought the remaining 3 tracks as MP3's and ripped the 7 tracks of the CD. Then I printed an album cover with letters P/T C/C +3. So now with some work I have the superdeluxe version of the album as I have a physical album with all the tracks and no need to switch discs in the middle. I would have been more okay with this 7/10 situation if the tracks were released later on some EP.
This was kinda expected after Future Bites. That album had only 9 tracks but it has been expanded later and the Spotify version has now no less than 30 tracks! I feel a bit strange with all these versions but I still think it's good that Steven wants to create compact quality albums without filler tracks. He has many times said how much he admires the original version of The Seeds Of Love by Tears For Fears, which has only 8 finely crafted songs. With these latest two albums I think he has wanted to do the same. All killer no filler.
Hi, thank you for watching. I have mellowed a bit over this but would still have like all 10 tracks on a physical item. I also have to respect the artist and the vision they have for what we think is an album. Many new artists only really think of music as single track releases so maybe we need to see some tracks as part of the artists vision for a physical album and the others as stand alone tracks. Phil
The bonus tracks are absolutely killer, no filler.. they would be among the stand out tracks if they were put on the regular CD. Then a next dilemma pops up: which bonus tracks to put on the DeLuxe Edition? Let’s say: 3 new ones. “Problem” with PT: most bonus tracks they come up with are fantastic. There’s no filler. Then you want them on the main CD as well. Ir’s a perpetuum mobile. That’s why I always buy DeLuxe Editions for PT and SW - they never disappoint. So all in all, we are talking about a real luxury problem here.
HDtracks sells all 10 tracks in 96/24 except Harridan and Of the New Day, which are 44/24, below $20.
I agree with all you're saying here! It goes even deeper here if you're into audiophile stuff. If you get the Deluxe CD/Blu-ray edition, you get the 7 "standard" tracks on CD1, which are presented in standard "CD" quality of 16/44.1 CD2 contains the additional 3 "bonus" tracks PLUS the instrumentals, also presented in "CD" quality of 16/44.1. For the Blu-ray, here is where it gets interesting AND disappointing: you get JUST the 7 tracks in hi-res stereo 24/96, 5.1 surround and Atmos. NONE of the additional tracks are included on the Blu-ray. This is pretty much a crappy oversight.
If you look at the Deluxe CD/Blu-ray for Steven Wilson's Hand Cannot Erase, you get all the tracks, plus instrumentals, alternate mixes and even the documentary on the blu-ray, all in Hi-res format. For people looking for a complete collection of the album and it's bonus content in hi-res format, this is appropriately packaged. C/C is sorely lacking in this.....to the point that i'm not sure why they even did it. I can log into Qobuz and stream all 10 tracks in hi-res, but sadly the instrumentals are absent. It really is perplexing.
Hi Andrew, thank you for watching and for mentioning Hand Connot Erase. It was this that made me feel the current deluxe offering was not up to what had gone before. Phil
You are absolutely right! I bought the cd version also. I would NEVER pay €55,= for three tracks. That is THEFT!!
Hi Rene, thank you for watching, so many music fans feel the same. I hope more people find this video and eventually the record label or even Steven Wilson. Phil
Very Good Points and Comes to a Person Willingness and Having Enough Money to Purchase the 3 CD Deluxe or 1 CD or Vinyl Albums?
Some People Buy a Mercedes’ or Others by Like Me Buy a Hyundai!
Or U Can Download Entire 10 Tracks at Amazon too!
But a Great Album and I Give it Ten Out Of Ten Track’s!
It Was a Grower Over Many Listens For Me…
Full disclosure, I did not read all the comments, so this might have already been said, but the deluxe is strictly about the surround mix! I’m so amazed people aren’t more into that! The real issue for me is the super high ticket prices for the live show.that’s way out of a lot of peoples range. Oh well, I’ll wait for the Blu-ray I guess! Cheers
Hi, thank you for watching, I love 5.1 mixes but would have thought the Blu Ray would have had all the tracks as well. I guess live concerts are where artists try and balance the books with the money taken by streaming but I have stopped going now due to the price of tickets. Phil
That is why I bought the deluxe. 5.1 all the way. Did not need the larger packaging though. Nothing really there.
@@kevinbossick8374 I agree. Even Pink Floyd is releasing the Animals remix as a 5.1 Blu-ray, sold separately. But, ya, I’m not super impressed with the packaging concept. Albums great though!
Love in the Past Tense is one of my favourite Porcupine Tree songs full stop, let alone one of the best songs in the Deluxe Set. All three should be album tracks, without a doubt and it sucks that they can't be had on the physical release without paying extortionate money. This video is great and I sincerely hope that the inevitable reissue in a few years time includes these tracks as standard. Looking at Hand Cannot Erase, it was rereleased last year (or this), so there isn't long between his reissue output (granted a few years, but he has form for this at least).
I bought the album on iTunes which seems like the best way to go for this release. Still waiting for the physical cd to ship only to have for the collection. I did order only to cancel the deluxe version after seeing unboxing videos. Then they released the deluxe digitally off the PT website for $7.99. Bizarre.
Hi Brian, thank you for watching, that is an odd thing to do! Phil
Phil, Agree with your assessment of this release. Thanks for the review !
You make a very good point here Phil, I hope Steven is listening!
I hope so! Thank you for watching - Phil :)
I agree with you 🤟😎
6:00 Ooo tasty licks. I'm subbed now.
I agree Phil, I have the bluray and it only has the 7, sux
Hi Phil from Australia once again. As a veteran record store manager, I am convinced that the issue here comes down to the record company. Over the years I seen loyal record buyers ripped off dozens of times by the exploitation of the record companies trying to eek out every last cent from a product. Numerous times I’ve seen albums on the market selling for a number of months while the artist has a non album hit single. The song is quickly tacked on to the album leaving the the buyer of the original release highly pissed off and venting at store staff. Constantly re-released classics said to to be the the ultimate version have flooded the market. The Doors catalog has been released 4 times, each time claiming to be the ultimate remaster. Dark Side Of The Moon, Tubular Bells and Bat Out Of Hell have had 25, 30, 35 & 40 year releases claiming the latest version is sonically better than the previous version. Ultimately the poor hardcore fan continues to shell out money. For the past few years The Stones have been releasing ultimate remaster/remixes of classic albums in some cases being the 3rd remaster. To the artist, it’s a windfall, to the record company it’s exploitation.
Lex, good post.
I'm a big fan of the Physical format. Whether vinyl or CD ( Blu Ray, SACD or basic CD) if well recorded will sound better than an overly compressed streamIng of music. Plus the physical format, provides art, pictures, liner notes, etc that you can look at. With vinyl sales up for the 14th year in a row and CD sales up for the first time since 2005, you would think the record companies would make sure that the packaging is first rate with all the songs included in the various formats in a first time release.
The deluxe package can have the CD with the studio tracking rough mix, instrumental versions of the tracks or the Blu Ray or SACD with 5.1 mix. Add the nice art book. It is a deluxe package. But, for the person who only has $20 to spend, let them be able to get the released recorded tracks for that album
and not have to spend $50 - $100 to get those bonus tracks.
As for the remix or remaster of an album, it depends. An album as well recorded as Supertramp's Crime of the Century, Pink Floyd's DSOTM, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours or Steely Dan's Aja, it's probably not getting much better. I can understand the remixing/ remastering for 5.1when it became an option with SACD or later Blu Ray. If there were tracks that were recorded that did not make the original release because it was not up to standards of the rest of the tracks, time constraints, etc, fine. Jethro Tull was known back in the day for recording a whole bunch of songs, picking what they wanted for the album and putting the rest in the vault. Release it down the road. Just don't do that 2 years from now.
Some albums, like Yes's Relayer is a favorite among Yes and Prog fans. Great music and performances with Yes doing their best Mahavisnu Orchestra or Return to Forever impression. The production, however was not good. Steven Wilson did a very good job of remixing that album. Just a much better version than the original release.
But yeah, I know where you are coming from. Do we need another remastered version of Miles Davis Kind of Blue? Because there are already some great versions of that album.
Hi Lex, thank you for watching and for your excellent comment on this situation. I agree with you totally. There is a fine line between a music fan feeling excited about a new release, even if it’s another reissue and feeling ripped off. Phil
Hi Missy, I have a weakness in buying almost anything that says ‘remixed by Steven Wilson’ and his attention to detail is usually beyond reproach. But somewhere along the line it feels he got distracted here… or I hope so! Phil
I completely agree!
Great video. Spot on.
I never liked Bowies ‘The Next Day’ album cover. I understand the whole connection of a retired artist releasing a new and secret album onto an unsuspecting public and I am glad they did it. I am all for ‘The Next Day’ - ‘On The New Day’ SURPRISE! But not that artwork booklet they gave us. It is rather a joke. I never like Lassie Hole and his PT artwork either, but at least it was better than what we are getting with this new one.
I also understand saving money by packing everything in an LP format box. But I do not have any records on my shelf, so I do not need some giant box for my CD’s, especially when those CD’s do not even have their own holders. I have never played a Blu-ray album, so I did not need that either, though I might like it.
So bad booklet and bad box, do I really need to spend $69 for 3 songs?
I waited for release day to see what others said about the Deluxe version instrumental tracks (still waiting). But by that morning the deluxe version had already doubled in price. I thought I would just buy it from iTunes - but they only had 9 songs for sale. So I bought the CD, for $7 more than I would have paid pre-order - and waited a week for it to come over from the UK. I then went to Amazon and downloaded the extra 3 tracks - and for some reason was not charged for them. Then I made a CDR which is better than the actual album. So in the end I am happy and I am glad I did not buy the deluxe version. After all, the cover could have looked worse; it could have looked like In Absentia!
brilliant band....lot of there stuff remind me of early floyd....but yeah PT rule........"in absentia"is me fav. steve wilson rules, he reminds me of devin townsend.
No you're not mistaken. Absolutely right... This is ridiculous and hilarious. Infuriating i would say...
Those 3 tracks are excellent and should have been there on 1 or 2CD's. I bought the deluxe but the artwork and package was not very good so not worth it.
Interesting topic, I recenty purchased a few old Scorpions albums (Blackout, Animal Magnetism & Love at First Sting) on vinyl that included cd versions of the album, also bought recent albums on vinyl by the brilliant Scott Matthews from England called 'The Great Untold' & 'New Skin' from his website that included cd versions at no extra cost, surely Porcupine Tree could so similar?
Hi, Thank you for watching. I am certain this would have been the case up until recently. Buying the vinyl album with the CD included is quite common but even if they had done this option the album would still have been incomplete. Phil
Agreed. Bought the Spec Ed CD/BluRay and Deluxe Vinyl on pre-order. Plus three other vinyl variations asap thereafter. The supposed Deluxe versions are a real let down. Not the music as it's great, but compared to other PT and SW Deluxe versions this album pales in comparison. Is this the fault of the label or the band? Who knows. But anyway, for the first time EVER I will not be pre-ordering the next SW or PT album until I know the full content. Feel a little bit used...
Hi Norman, thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts. I will be doing the same! Phil :)
Just wondering Phil if it wasn't the label doing it like they did with The Quest by Yes.The label only wanted so much time on the disc.But they could of had a two disc version out also.Who knows what goes on with some wacky stuff in the music business.I purchased the box set and was disappointed with the layout.Nothing great in the booklet,no bonus tracks like demos,but I always fall for the 5.1 mix.That's my achilles heel
Hi Thomas, thank you for watching. The 5.1 mix is my weak spot as well ! Phil :)
Same here. And the bonus songs are not even on the blu ray.
If it includes the bonus tracks its even better they should be actual album tracks as they are so good
On Spotify it includes the bonus tracks
On to the album its excellent
Hi Brian, thank you for watching. It certainly is a fabulous album. Phil
Well the 45rpm triple clear vinyl album has 9 tracks on it so that's not too bad and the audio quality is great, but I totally agree with you about everything, especially too many different versions and editions in which he milks his fanbase in hard times!
I feel ripped off as well in that regard. I wanted to buy the CD with the extra tracks but there wasn't an option. So I have the CD and have to go to Spotify to listen to the other 3. Absurd.
Hi Juan, thank you for watching, that is exactly how I feel. He has really dropped the ball here and not thought this through on how the fans that like to buy the physical album will feel. Phil
There was, of course, a very vigorous sales campaign last year, encouraging pre-orders for a mid 2022 release. I think that told us how the label was going to treat fans. It was a ridiculous amount of time to be collecting money versus actual delivery of product and I said so at the time. And now, when the product is delivered, we find they've actually treated streamers better than purchasers of a physical copy. I really like SW, bought the audiobook of his biography recently, and I think he's had nothing to do with this. With that being said, he arguably needs to get involved, because it's his band's reputation that risks being diminished by this regrettable exercise in taking advantage of his biggest fans, i.e. those who will buy physical copies of output.
Further, this is not a time to be chintzing people and acting like all is well economically for a lot of folks.
If physical copy sales start to suffer, then labels need to consider giving customers much more, not much less, for their hard earned cash.
Hi Chris, thank you for sharing this excellent comment here as well as the Facebook Group. Judging by the other comments here ( and elsewhere) either the label or Steven Wilson himself has scored an own goal by giving the streaming community a better deal. Phil
Are you purposely forgetting to mention that most folk bought the physical media so early due to them having the slightest of teensiest weensiest of chances of actually buying a ticket for the live dates.
@@redlioness6627 that "incentive", in itself was another rather poor business model.
@@chriswright5016 SW has been involved in many poor business models in recent years, usually in his habit of milking the fanbase with as many coloured vinyl editions as their are digits on your hands and feet (slight exaggerate but sentiment noted).
There are by far too many Limited Edition in White, Limited Edition in Red, Limited Edition in Blue, Limited Edition in Yellow, Limited Edition in Orange, Limited Edition in Green, Limited Edition in Silver, Limited Edition in Gold, Limited Edition in Clear and then standard Black Vinyl....
You see my problem is we see nine different availble colours of vinyl alone not to mention the various other media formats, for the ease of calculation let's make it 10 colours of vinyl, now if he presses 1000 copies of each then there's an immediate 10,000 albums pressed and he like other artists will have a hardcore of fans who will buy each and every colour.
Now 1000 hardcore fans from around the whole World is not impossible for someone like SW so there is 10,000 albums snapped up by 1000 fans alone when there are another possible 9000 fans just wanting to own one copy in one colour that have to do without owning one copy alone because 1000 fans own ten copies each and those 1000 fans who own 10 albums each only need one album after all, one to play but these c**ts want one to play and one to store away unopened.
Sadly though quite a lot of those unreasonable collectors will want two copies of each colour which will reduce the amount of copies available and when you throw opportunists into the mix who buy loads of copies knowing that within weeks when they sell out they can post on discogs and ebay for unrealistic prices because they just want to make a quick quid by exploiting the fans and have no real interest in actually owning and/or playing the vinyl!
Legit gripe, brother! Great album though!
You are absolutely right. The production of this album is worse then on previous albums, isn’t it?
Spot on 👍
It would be interesting to get a business insider's view on this and how the decision was made. I guess that ultimately it'll be down to optimising revenue. I do wonder though what went through his mind when he was sequencing the album, how those extra tracks would've slotted in and why he rejected them.
I can only presume they looked at the bottom line and kept adding more variants and forgot to look at the release through the eyes of the fans. Phil
@@NowSpinningMagazine I expect you're right, Phil. Hopefully Wilson will be aware of what fans are saying and do the right thing. Ian
The 3 extra tracks are, for me, stronger than some of the material on the official album especially Dignity. BTW The 3 lp 45rpm i believe, contains 2 of the extra tracks so, in essence, if you want the 3 lp vinyl copy it is about £54 and you then have to then fork out roughly the same for the cd-blu ray to obtain the other 'extra' track (although this may not even be the case...not sure). In the end all the extra tracks could easily fit onto a double vinyl album. The band's last album 'The Incident' contained an additional extra c.d with 4 additional tracks so surely same could be the case for this record? As such this is an obvious marketing ploy and in these financially stringent times i don't think it shows empathy for the fans. Also may i mention that Tool's Fear Inoculum was released as a 5 vinyl album edition retailing at £185 in my local record store not long back, which, on August 5th, will now be released as a 3 album edition for £54. All just a marketing rip off ploy methinks.
Barrie,
You are correct. There are only two bonus tracks included on the three vinyl deluxe version of PTCC. Love in the Past Tense is left off. I know this is supposed to be the audiophile version of this release it being cut at 45 RPM and placed on 180 gram vinyl. Generally ideal length per side is 9-12 minutes for vinyl cut at 45 RPM. However, 15-16 minutes is doable, while still having an excellent sounding recording. Same thing with 33 RPM vinyl. Ideal is 15-19 minutes, but an excellent sounding vinyl recording can be cut with lengths 20-23 minutes.
On the PTCC deluxe vinyl, three sides have only one song. A side has Harridan, C side has Dignity and F side Chimera's Wreck. Since it's not a concept album and the track listing is different anyway on the deluxe vs other available versions, there is no reason why Love in the Past Tense ( 5:50 minutes) could not have been placed on the A side with Harridan or C side with Dignity and come in under 15 minutes on that side.
Jazz artist Patricia Barber had her excellent Cafe Blue re-released by Impex Records. It's roughly about 63 minutes cut at 45 RPM and they were able to get it on a double album. By the, way, look at this packaging for Cafe Blue. For $125 dollars, you get a 1 Step recording process, using the best vinyl ( VR 900 Super Vinyl) at 180 grams. The two vinyls are housed in a gatefold heavy duty 3 sleeve jacket. A nice booklet is placed in the middle jacket. The vinyl album comes in a classy cloth bound slipcase. Oh, by the way, the album is Mastered by legendary engineer Kevin Gray too. No shortcuts. This is what the PTCC deluxe vinyl package should be. Yes Barber's cost $35 dollars more, but the packaging is far nicer and includes 1 step recording process. You don't feel like you are getting ripped off as no corners were cut. If it was a typical 3 Step, like PTCC, Barber's album would be in the $60-80 range. Now compare Barber's Cafe Blue packaging at that range to PTCC deluxe vinyl packaging and it would be embarrassing.
@@ciciusss many thanks for your superb and HIGHLY informative commentary. For me Love In The Past Tense is one of the strongest tracks so to leave it off the 45rpm version is very poor.
Hi Missy, thank you for taking the time to write this, it is very useful and informative and offers great insight into what could have been done. I would like to add this to the website post if that is ok? Phil
Phil, Thank you. And yes you may.
Actually a separate 2 cd or CD+blu-ray (2 disc set would be an idea.
People were getting used to record labels forcing artists to make 12 track length records. 8 tracks @ 50 mins (this album) is a good balance, focused and to the point. 1/4 of the tracks on a 12 track album aren't the strongest. This how vinyl was
Hi, thank you for watching. I agree your suggestion would have been ideal. I get the feeling a 2CD set might still appear later down the line! Phil
I was one of the suckers who bought the £55 deluxe version. Now in the past SW and PTree releases have usually been really nice quality.
Just to quote what I have mentioned elsewhere "compare this to other SW related deluxe versions and it feels cheap, the book is a load of arty nonsense with bunches of white squares just obscuring pictures...is this really supposed to be some high brow statement - or more the emperor's new clothes? At first I thought it was a printing error ha! The book title "What You See Is What You Think You See." - I think I see me being sold a pig in a poke. The CD housing itself feels cheap and a bit naff - the artwork....stickers stuck onto white card completes that naff concept - one of them on the back of the main box has developed a long bubble from the centre to the top of the sticker where the adhesive is failing so sticking it down again has left a line now!!! Definite deluxe version rip off when you compare it to what went before, plus the overlong wait after pre-ordering, put pre orders up a month or so before the release not 6 months. Having bought / pre ordered all the SW (and PTrees The Incident) deluxe versions I feel totally let down by the quality of this and it'll make me think twice next time - but maybe FOMO will get the upper hand :(
Considering the content 2CDS a Blu ray, a thin booklet with little merit going for it, main album artwork that is basically stickers on cardboard this is a £30 value box at most, to retail at £55 is comical. Good job the album is great".
Hi Nick, you experience and others like it, is what inspired this video. Steven Wilson created a standard when it came to deluxe box sets and this is nothing like them. Phil
I ended up getting the porcupine tree on iTunes because the CDs were just totally overpriced. Of course the digital version does have the three extra tracks. I do think they are ripping us off by doing that the way they’re doing though. But I am not going to pay a huge price for a CD that should be normal priced and could just have the 10 tracks on it
Hi Phil, I thought I would share some semi-recent "feeling-ripped-off" releases,(one that you mentioned, being the two disc version of Black Sabbath's "13" ...they could have fitted it all on one disc) more recent is the "Senjutsu" album from Iron Maiden. They could have easily shortened a couple of minutes of a rather boring album, and put it all on one disc...so go figure?? Hence the rip-off feeling. It would be interesting to hear about why on Black Sabbath "the End" tour (DVD,CD), they did not play anything from the "13" album (or "never say die") ??? Oh well, carry-on
Hi Stan, I am with you on the Sabbath album 13. I guess for the End Tour they felt there was no room in the set and the whole thing was based on looking back and not forwards. Phil
ALL 10 Tracks should be on BOTH the CD and VINYL and the booklet should have detailed liner notes and the LYRICS as well.
Totally agree
Hi Phil, I was a massive Porcupine Tree fan from the very beginning and bought everything including singles. However, I lost interest in the last few SW and PT releases, just something about the recent music that I didn't get. However, I've read some interesting reviews of this album so will make the effort to stream some tracks and see if I'm back on board. However, one big issue for me is packaging which, for me, is a big part of the artifact I'm buying, sure the music is everything but packaging is part of the value. This album and the last SW album artwork and the so called deluxe box for the SW album were nothing short of taking the p@#s!. I'm sure SW is making some sort of artistic statement with this minimalist and blanking out artwork but for the punter being asked to shell out hard earned money it really is disrespectful and disappointing. Add in the missing music you have to shell out separately for and, yes, the 'fan' is being laughed at. Is SW really being driven by record company pressures?, I very much doubt someone of his standing has nothing to do with the overall packaging and marketing. Artists have to make a living but where is the line between value and rip-off?
Hi Ian, thank you for watching and I did hesitate before making this video and then after seeing other people talking about thought I should just say how I feel. I do think this will damage his reputation because he has always been seen as on the side of the music fan. Phil
Hi Ian, thank you for watching and I did hesitate before making this video and then after seeing other people talking about thought I should just say how I feel. I do think this will damage his reputation because he has always been seen as on the side of the music fan. Phil
Couldn't agree more and it makes it even more bewildering
Hi Phil, sorry to hear your disappointment. Sometimes the edition you want (in this case a 2cd)is released at a later date after everyone has already forked out for the deluxe. Might not be the case here but that sort of thing does happen. Doesn`t feel right you can stream those extra tracks for virtually nothing but don`t have them on the physical version. Hope your next purchase is better!
Hi Sjhue, thank you for watching. I am never usually negative and this is a fabulous album, but I feel I must use what influence I might have in being honest about how I feel on the music I review. Phil
@@NowSpinningMagazine Absolutely Phil no need to explain! Positive and negative reviews are both very useful to viewers/consumers!
I got the digital download as FLAC from Porcupine Tree during the 2 week window they made it available. This gave me everything FLAC including the 3 bonus tracks as well as all the tracks as instrumentals too. Further I also got the booklet as full quality PDF download too. How much was this? An impressive £ 4.99 which I thought was pretty amazing albeit that the Flac's are 44.1 16 Bit but hey that's CD quality anyway.
I hate the artwork and for me a bit like The Future Bites this is a step too far as a concept. None of the merchandise has any appeal to me with the whole white square just art for art concepts sake. Its a waste of paper to me whereas had they used Lasse it could have been so opulent and genuinely nice.
I really don't get the lack of inclusion of the 3rd bonus track on the Vinyl edition. Its not as if the set was cheap as it was. I don't think this is PT's fault I think this is the issue when you go with a bigger record company who just milk it for what its worth. Its a shame though that Steven did not put his foot down over this as it spoils things a little.
As for the nonsense about the 3 bonus tracks being the best 3 tracks that really is just utter nonsense they are good but the best tracks are on the main release. Yes they are worth having but come on lets be real here!
I do feel the digital download was the real bargain here. All the music for less than a fiver! Unreal. But I can imagine those of you who bought box sets and vinyl do feel a tad ruffled at not getting everything.
So did I, Roy, and I only got the CD, so was very happy to get the bonus tracks AND the instrumentals for what amounts to a trip to Burger King or something. Regarding the third bonus track missing from the 45RPM deluxe vinyl, apparently 'Love in the Past Tense' wasn't finished as a track before the vinyl had to be cut and mass produced ready to meet pre-order shipping, so they had to take it out of the running order.
It's a shame they couldn't get everything ready in time, and I agree that there should have been a 2CD version with the bonus tracks on the second disc, but it very much feels like the label went a little overboard, so much so that they couldn't right the ship once it started to capsize. All that was needed was standard download, CD and vinyl in a variety of colours, 2CD, 3CD and deluxe clear vinyl with the bonus tracks inserted into the running order. Push the album back a week and that would have all been achieveable.
Hi Roy, thank you for watching and your very informative comment which explains a lot. You are right the digital release was a total bargain! Phil
There were probably too many variations to keep to a specific release date, but thank you for the extra information that is really useful. Phil
Allow me to take the role of devil's advocate here, the PT album with the extra tracks goes to where there are the most listeners-streaming. Think of it as further enticement to bring new customers to the streaming services by adding a little "extra" for the monthly fee. The disgust you feel for purchasing the physical media, regardless of version or format, is suppose to drive you into streaming and dump physical media for good. No doubt, you feel short changed or cheated but I would put blame on PT's record company/publishers. Or you can wait a year for the next Record Store Day when an more deluxe edition is released(only on vinyl) with those extra tracks included. Honestly, I'm surprised others have not done this already.
Well, Porcupine Tree have had a number of reissues Phil. You can bet they will re-release the album as a two CD at some point.
I am sure they will, but the 10 tracks that represent the album on the streaming platforms would have fitted on a single CD.
@@NowSpinningMagazine My reaction when they published the release was exactly the same as yours Phil. I was so outraged. Sometimes some decisions do not make sense.
@@NowSpinningMagazine Nil Recurring and Fear of a Blank Planet could also fit on a single CD (as they do on the deluxe black vinyl), but nobody complains because the album was designed as six songs and 50 minutes of music, with perhaps weaker (though barely) tracks forming the EP released some time later. It was carefully sequenced too, and I personally think the black vinyl track order and bloated length is unnecessary and takes away from the experience of the base album.
Similarly, they designed C/C to be 7 tracks and 48 minutes of music, and the three tracks that were left out were determined to be too old-fashioned in sound, offering little in the way of growth that's seen on the album proper. I pre-ordered the album and was offered the chance to purchase the entire £55 deluxe CD edition tracks for £3.99 as a digital download, altogether spending less than £20. That came as a very nice surprise, but I knew from the first day the track list was revealed that they had created an album from available tracks, sequenced it very carefully as they always do, and a future EP was perhaps in the works; while that didn't happen (though a 2CD version might well happen in the future), it was clear that the three bonus tracks were never intended to represent the album, just like Nil Recurring was never meant to represent Fear of a Blank Planet, despite being recorded for that very purpose and cast aside once a stronger album presented itself. This, for me at least, is a non issue.
@@ShiivaWilding Thank you for watching and sharing your viewpoint which does make a lot of sense. Phil
I'm sick and tired of artists releasing albums in this piecemeal fashion. In the good old days, if someone released an album and you bought a copy, you KNEW you had the complete album. Regardless if you had a cassette, CD or vinyl, everyone had the same content and what that album was comprised of was clearly defined.
In their rush to have the public buying multiple versions of a release containing different content to rack up sales, they are assisting in killing off the concept of the album as an artistic statement.
Short term thinking for a quick few quid.
Hi Sean, thank you for watching, I agree 100%. Phil
Wait the bluray only has 7 songs. This band is as frustrating as they are brilliant.
Yep. So you have to put in another cd just to hear the extra tracks. Ridiculous.
@@kevinbossick8374 And no 5.1/surround/dolby atmos/or even just PCM stereo on the 3 "bonus tracks". So weak.
@@austinwoods466 I just realized that today. Finally received it in the mail. The book is worthless, but I do enjoy the music. Also the DTS has little to no bass. It’s better with the Dolby though.
Phil, Agreed. The three bonus tracks, Population Three, Never Have and Love in the Past Tense are, in my opinion, after Harridan and Chimera's Wreck the strongest tracks on the album. Adding these bonus tracks takes the album from 48 minutes to 65 minutes, easily doable for a CD and a double album running at 33 RPM.
Instead you have to get the deluxe CD package that cost nearly 5 times more in the US to get those bonus tracks. Yes it's a 2 CD + BRD and 60+ page Art Book package. Usually, that would be fine, but in this case the Art Booklet is a big disappointment. The pictures have a big white square in the middle, which is aggravating. But, even without that what is there looks uninspired ( in contrast to the music). Typically, PT and Steven Wilson solo releases have Art Books that are really well done. Even the inserts in the basic CDs were well done, usually consisting of 16 - 20 pages with interesting art, pictures, lyrics and band and recording information. With this release, however, the PTCC CD has a foldout that looks like it belongs in a 1980s era tape. It's bad.
It's even worse for the deluxe vinyl. Yes, it's a 3 vinyl 180 gram set cut at 45 RPM. That's where the good news ends. Because, of the 45 RPM vinyl, you only get two of the bonus tracks. Love in the Past Tense is not included. Nor, is the Art Book. Nor, are the sleeves polylined.
This package cost $90 dollars. If a label like Analogue, Craft or Impex that is marketed to the Audiophile community released this, it would have been done with the vinyl housed in a polylined sleeve and placed in a nice substantial gatefold jacket that would be housed in a nice slip case with a well thought out booklet. In the Audiophile community, you expect to spend anywhere from $60 to $125. But, you know the vinyl is going to be the highest grade, mastered well, 180 gram with tip-on jackets, maybe 1 step vinyl pressing if at the $100-$125 range. But, that's not the case here. The vinyl on the PTCC deluxe version appears to be top notch and is attractive, substantial 180 gram vinyl. The rest of the package, at this price point, leaves much to be desired. At least the music and performances are excellent.
Hi Missy, thank you for watching and for your very detailed response. You have put into words what I feel and illustrated very clearly how many Porcupine Tree fans are feeling about this. Phil
I won’t buy the deluxe version. Too expansive for me. I will stream the 3 tracks. With a little luck we’ll get an expanded with live material. Hopefully will get them then.
I am a huge Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree fan, and have purchased all of the Hi Res Surround releases , as they are just sublime.
I was completely perplexed at how Steven has now jumped in on the rip off deluxe package hosing.
At a $100+ here in Canada, I decided against it. I only want the Blu Ray and refuse to contribute to this. It's the first time I didn't buy show tickets since I became a fan in 2006.
The whole reunion thing feels insincere, and a bit of a rip off in my opinion. Hoping the stand alone blu ray might be a possibility in the future. Oh well.
Hi Duane, thank you for watching. I am the same as you. I always saw SW as separate to the major labels and a music fan who also released music. I feel more like a number after this. Phil
No es solo el aspecto de dejar fuera esas tres canciones, es tambien la calidad del empaque de esa edicion deluxe. Es muy pobre y los discos en esas pestañas de carton! Y por ese precio... es muy triste ver el declive en calidad y el poco respeto por el fan.
Lo mismo sucedió con el nuevo set de C/C Live... no creo que compre ese nuevo album en directo. La calidad del empaque es pesima ademas de costosa.
Its all tricking the fans for more money which is deplorable
I disagree. The seven main songs make for a better album flow absent the three "extra" tracks - which I'm glad are a separate item. Most artists who record extra options when creating an album just throw those tracks away - here you have the OPPORTUNITY to go get them if you want.
And why is anyone surprised by this? Wilson and PT have been releasing extra tracks separately since as far back as In Absentia. Every single record he/they have done since then has had different versions (with and without extra tracks not part of the main album). This is part of how modern music sales/marketing has been forced to operate in the "I demand my music be free" generation. Or do you not think they deserve to make a living of of their music? Why can't you focus on the fact that brilliant musicians are putting out some excellent music and you have a choice of how much of it to consume?
Hi Tim, thank you for watching and sharing your comment. I buy a lot of Steven Wilson Deluxe sets as he is one of my favourite artists. The Hand, Cannot Erase deluxe set seemed to include everything so I was expecting something similar. Your opinion is just as valid as mine, so thank you again. Phil
Sorry but Wilson is no genius. You are correct about everything else except, the music is OK but nothing new, regurgitation of the highest order.
I've said enough already about this release. Totally agree except it is not the record company, Wilson always does this multiple releases of the same thing. The deluxe edition is usually good though but not here, it's piss poor.
I don't believe a word he says, he is full of contradiction, a used car salesman.
People like Zappa and Miles Davis are geniuses, Wilson isn't fit to wipe their arses I'm afraid.
Nevermind, there is other music out there.
Good video 👍
Hi Stuart, thank you for watching. We might differ on how we perceive Mr Wilson’s musical talents but I am 100% with you on how this multiple options comes across. I think what he thought was clever marketing will damage his reputation more than he thinks. Phil
I feel that this is complaining for the sake of complaining. Porcupine Tree DID NOT have to reform. They DID NOT have to release new material. But here we are, in 2022, with a new Porcupine Tree album. OK, the "main" album does not have the three bonus tracks. So what. When Fear of a Blank Planet was released, the "extra" songs were put on a separate EP and I don't remember seeing or hearing one complaint about that.
Quit bitching and be thankful they released anything at all. And if you don't like the way it's released... don't buy it! How simple is that?
This kind of shit is why we can't have nice things...
I agree that we want nice things. The deluxe version of Hand, Cannot Erase was a very nice item and the level of detail and what it included was exceptional. This time the deluxe version for roughly the same price is not even in the same ball park. You are right they did not need to release a new album but they did and also chose to release it on multiple formats knowing some fans would buy more than one. You viewport is just as valid as mine but looking through the comments here and elsewhere many fans feel a bit miffed with the package and not the music.
@@NowSpinningMagazine I definitely see your (and others) point of view, and I understand and respect it. My view on the packaging, and this is just my opinion, is that it could be that the band decided to go with a more "minimalistic" approach since the deluxe package for The Incident was pretty detailed even though the music was not as strong to them. Also, as someone else mentioned, it could very well come down to the record company saying "we'll release it but it can only have this much as far as the deluxe package is concerned since you haven't released anything new in 13 years."
I suppose that these "deluxe editions" can be called hit or miss, and I think it depends on the mindset and type of fan you are. For me, as a Porcupine Tree fan, I think this deluxe edition is perfectly fine. But then I look at the "super deluxe" of Kiss' Destroyer album, and I think it's too much and too expensive, but that could just be down to the fact that I am not a huge Kiss fan. But other people like it and will pay for it, so more power to them. As I said, I'm just happy we got something from PT and choose to enjoy it.
@@zoan2013 you say everything that brings us together in your last sentence where you mention you are just pleased PT released this album. At the end of the day it’s about the music and i agree it’s a great album! Thank you - Phil
Holding out 3 songs is inane. Weak indeed. These are not b-sides.
yes,yes, is not fear! ES sind die companys. mp3 verson all track 11eur amason gemany. sound ok .