You should have so many more subs than you do. I’m almost certain you’re the only high quality channel that spends 100% of your review videos reviewing the game. Every other channel spends 80% of the video explaining the rules 🤦🏾♀️ Also what an honest review. I appreciate the transparency, but I wonder if you’ll get another review copy from FFG? 😅 Great video tho 💚
Well I got this from Asmodee UK so who knows but they do fast respect my honest opinion. 😁 And if they don't, well too bad! 🙏 But thank you so much for the kind words, I like the style and format I have now and I wish I had more subs but sadly honesty is only semi rewarded and I'm just some dude from Britain, nothing special 😅
Thank you! And yes, I will always be honest to say when I get a review copy of a game but in no way does it affect my verdict. I don't have any ties to publishers/distributors and refuse to subscribe to the IGN crowd of board game reviewers. 👍😁
You know what I found when I played this game? The one thing that just came back to my mind over and over as me and several of my friends played some of it? This is not Descent, this is just a watered down Diablo clone with physical components.
6/10 is brutal for such an expensive game! Was wondering whether to buy this but after seeing your review I'll save myself the money & wait for Arydia!
Fair review, Hector. It’s definitely not for everyone but it truly is a unique experience. It has a Legos feel to it when building the map and I personally enjoy seeing how the map expands throughout the game. The combat is fun and there is enough strategy and abilities available to enjoy this adventure. Once again, fair review and it’s fun to hear about everyone’s different opinions. Some games that have been praised, I have not enjoyed. Other times, games that have been panned, I’ve enjoyed. What matters most is that we all play what we enjoy and share the experiences this hobby has to offer with others! Great review and take care!
Great review, I feel like this game is getting an easy pass for a high score. Being FFG with a map and miniatures and app driven yet before this review I sat back and thought about the hefty price tag and it does seem fiddly. To me it seems like a sort of mix up of gloomhaven and Lotr: Journeys in Middle Earth, both are good games but a little overrated IMO. Nice to hear your thoughts on this and get a balanced opinion. Would love to see you review Unfathomable 😄
Totally agree! I passed on Unfathomable due to the expectation of needing a big group, lots of hours etc and not easily being able to do that. But if I get a chance to play it I will and I'll certainly do first impressions.
Great review! Thanks! The parallel with LotR:JoME is enough to keep me away. I enjoy JoME, but you're so right about the big box expansions. A lot of money for a game I'll probably only play once.
I think there's fair points. It's a fairly typical dungeon crawler of you explore, move, and kill monsters. The story is easily the weakest point, particularly because of how much it's talking heads. However, I don't get the setup issue. You don't tear down the 3D terrain once it's setup. So, that means all you have to do is add 3-4 pillars to the few raised pieces of terrain in the game. And, it's only like 30-60 seconds to attach the pillars. Maybe it's actually an organization or table space issue? As far as storage for future expansions, I'm not seeing any reason an Act 2 won't find in the core box. The bottom section still has a lot of room left. And, the miniature trays waste a lot of space in the top section. Like most injection molded miniature trays, they're pretty crap and will be the first thing I toss when I need more room. As far as where I'd rate this with comparable games... - I haven't played Descent 2E. - I like Imperial Assault more than this game. And, I would recommend someone get IA with multiple expansions before Descent. - Additionally, I like Mansion of Madness 2E more than this game. While I think Descent has a more interesting combat mechanism, MoM is such a sold mystery adventure game. - I like Descent better than Journey's in Middle Earth. I find JiME's deck usage interesting where you can stack successes or use cards for active abilities, but it's not very engaging. I enjoyed the game enough to get the expansions, but I feel like the gameplay is too focused on interactions. A few things I wish they'd have done with Descent... - Make elevation matter. It could be a simple as modifying ranged attacks. +1 hit if you're attacking a lower elevation, -1 hit if you're attacking a higher elevation. - Make the terrain more interesting for combat. It's weird to me that JiME's battle maps do more interesting things with terrain than this. I want to kick the cauldron over onto the baddies and do damage. I want to be able to flip the table and hunker down behind it. Let us use the terrain in some capacity other than searching it.
It's everything you do though. The dream one for example has you maintaining two separate maps. And you have to get the underlays, put things like stairs, chests, shelves, etc in place. It all adds up over time. I prefer IA as well. And I much prefer MoM and JIME to this game.
Hi Luke, I’m interested in how this compares to Destinies (which I regret buying) particularly where the app almost becomes the focus of the game when you play solo (as in Destinies) - is that the case here?
The app has more of a purpose here but you can't use it on its own. It doesn't track the pieces on the table such as characters and enemies so you still need those, it's mainly for combat, inventory and the map layout.
Great to hear your take on this game! It sort of solidified my initial impressions that it feels sort of meh, not bad and certainly has some cool components but at the same time I just don't feel drawn to the character artwork and overall it feels a bit like a generic video game rpg which I'd probably find easier to play (and cheaper) on my console.
Those who have played - how does set up/ play time compare to mansions of madness? I have a group of 3 who love MoM and was considering getting this… but sounds like it may take longer?
This takes longer I feel. MoM tells you everything to set it up in the app as you do a scenario. In Descent you have the stuff in between missions if you're doing it and terrain to set up rather than just putting a tile down. Plus MoM doesn't need you to spend hours assembling all the terrain when you buy it.
Buy the core box and then keep having to buy expansions. So like most dungeon crawlers Fantasy Flight puts out then? LOTR, Mansions of Madness, Imperial Assault. Even before Asmodee bought them, they seemed to be headed in this direction to me.
Haha! I have the game, I enjoy the game, is it a £130 game….no. I’ve been kidding myself it’s better than it is and sometimes you need someone to take you to one side and whisper a few truths in your ear😂 That said, I’ll still pick up the expansion. A very fair review👍
You assume there's a lot of opportunities to get in these short sessions. Also the danger with that approach is that you forget what was going on when you go back to the scenario. Always best to save in between, not during.
Thanks! I can see the merits of this but I think some reviewers are potentially overlooking the cost factor and what you get for that cost, when ideally it's a major consideration.
I'm glad you referenced Tainted Grail and TWoM, both of which have truly compelling writing. Meanwhile the majority of fantasy dungeon-crawlers all too often present generic story lines. I always find this immensely ironic, that 'fantasy' is so often unimaginative as a genre.
But, the story and narrative in this game beats the absolute pants off of Tainted Grail. That game's story beats and writing were standard basic, and the combat was a chore.
Yeah got the game hoping that the ease of play would make it a good game for my wife and I but alas no. We only played mission 1 and we can't be bothered with it. I think I'll just stay away from dungeon crawler anyway. I need to sell it soon.
I thought I agreed with all of this, until I played it. Bought it and played it some more. And I disagree on most nearly all points. Tainted Grail, in particular, compares poorly in every way to this game. I was so sure I would dislike this take on Descent, but it's a solid 9/10. The only real weakness is the admittedly cheap and silly cardboard dragon. Tainted Grail was a 4/10 for me. It had boring writing, unwarranted bloat, and combat that was a chore.
I'm certainly not going to deny that TG has its flaws. I do have to house rule some of the grinding nature of the game to make it "my own" per say. However I will still defend that it's a far greater product than Descent 3.0. "Bloat" - I would argue that a ton of cardboard terrain that looks like low graphic PC pixels or dull flat terrain sheets is worse bloat, bare in mind that's why your box costs over £150. TG doesn't need Sundrop figures or the extra monster minis for sure, but they were optional, not mandatory inclusions. "Writing" - this I respectfully have to disagree a ton on. One of my favourite things in TG is the story and writing. It's done like a proper gritty fantasy and having voice narration on the companion app only adds to it (which incidentally didn't cost extra). Descent has no voice narration and the writing is worse than the worst of CW show dialogue. There's barely a story arc and the character interaction is more like a parody than an actual serious plot. Even those who like the game tend to comment on the bad writing and many other reviewers have also (TV inclusive) The combat I can take or leave. I like the card system but admittedly, the locations which auto generate encounters can be a pain, hence I make those "optional" not mandatory. But then the combat in Descent is only fine at best. You don't have a lot of options even with card flippery nonsense and it's still luck of the dice.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Descent fits in one box. And you do a lot more interacting with the furniture in Descent than you do the Menhirs in TG. Those things could have been tokens, and then maybe there wouldn't be so much stuff. I gave TG a good go. I have a friend who loves doing the Kickstarter thing, and has the whole pile. At first, I highly enjoyed it. I don't need top tier writing, just a plot to follow. But man, the miniatures have never seemed more pointless in a game, to me. And then after a few encounters, I realized I hated that symbol matching system that plays out during battle. It doesn't feel like what it is trying to represent. It feels too gamified, I guess? IDK, I'm not a reviewer. But the systems and writing were not to my taste in TG. And, as a fan and previous collector of Descent 1st and 2nd, I was upset about LoTD. It seemed like a massive mistake to change Descent in all the ways they did. I felt all the same things before I even played it. But it isn't a dungeon crawler like those, it's a dungeon crawler like Mansions of Madness. And what the app allows the story to do is just better to me than any system of checkmarks besides Fabled Lands. I guess we just have different taste in writing and UX, at least in this instance. I was prepared to hate it, but I couldn't deny all the things it did right. The miniatures alone are the finest FF has ever produced, there is more variety in the enemies than previous editions. Also, I found that the flipping and crafting systems create all sorts of interesting chains to set up in combat. You can even spend fatigue to affect dice rolls, mitigating some of the luck factor. Anyways, luck factor is the great equalizer. I need a little dice chucking or something in there.
I too really enjoy this game. I find myself thinking about possible improvements to equipment and strategies between sessions. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but it truly holds my attention. The people I have told about this game want to try it so we have multiple campaigns going on. Just by doing that, you think I would lose enthusiasm. I have not. I appreciate this review. It gives me food for thought, but in the end, if I have fun with the game, I think that’s the goal anyway.
How does this get a 6? No replayability, no tactical decisions, not great 3D tiles (they look very low quality and almost pixelated, plus, its a chore to set up), very little components aside from the terrain, no useful insert, bad narrative... What exactly is good about this game?
Easy to learn, a well crafted app, fantastic miniatures, plenty of content even if only one playthrough, still immersive thematically even if the writing isn't anything to sing home about. Fun to level up characters and acquire new loot. Best played solo rather than a group which was my main experience. There is still good parts to this game, but the price tag hurts it.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Personally, I dont care for minis. I dont think either good minis enhnace a bad game that much or that bad minis spoil a good game that much. Most of the content is in the app, right? Because as far as actual components go, there seems to be not that many. If so, then its just a "good app" point. I dont think a game with just a good app and a "fun" level up mechanic (which still offers less choices than Descent 2ed) deserves a 6.
You should have so many more subs than you do. I’m almost certain you’re the only high quality channel that spends 100% of your review videos reviewing the game. Every other channel spends 80% of the video explaining the rules 🤦🏾♀️
Also what an honest review. I appreciate the transparency, but I wonder if you’ll get another review copy from FFG? 😅
Great video tho 💚
Well I got this from Asmodee UK so who knows but they do fast respect my honest opinion. 😁 And if they don't, well too bad! 🙏 But thank you so much for the kind words, I like the style and format I have now and I wish I had more subs but sadly honesty is only semi rewarded and I'm just some dude from Britain, nothing special 😅
If Asmodee has any integrity they'll appreciate the review regardless of stance. Even negative reviews generate buzz.
Good review! I was worried when you said you got a review copy that it was going to be a propped up review but your review was legit!
Thank you! And yes, I will always be honest to say when I get a review copy of a game but in no way does it affect my verdict. I don't have any ties to publishers/distributors and refuse to subscribe to the IGN crowd of board game reviewers. 👍😁
You know what I found when I played this game? The one thing that just came back to my mind over and over as me and several of my friends played some of it? This is not Descent, this is just a watered down Diablo clone with physical components.
Hmm, yeah makes sense!
6/10 is brutal for such an expensive game! Was wondering whether to buy this but after seeing your review I'll save myself the money & wait for Arydia!
Glad it helped you make a choice either way! :-)
Fair review, Hector. It’s definitely not for everyone but it truly is a unique experience. It has a Legos feel to it when building the map and I personally enjoy seeing how the map expands throughout the game. The combat is fun and there is enough strategy and abilities available to enjoy this adventure.
Once again, fair review and it’s fun to hear about everyone’s different opinions. Some games that have been praised, I have not enjoyed. Other times, games that have been panned, I’ve enjoyed. What matters most is that we all play what we enjoy and share the experiences this hobby has to offer with others! Great review and take care!
Great to hear, multiple opinions are key!
Great review, I feel like this game is getting an easy pass for a high score. Being FFG with a map and miniatures and app driven yet before this review I sat back and thought about the hefty price tag and it does seem fiddly.
To me it seems like a sort of mix up of gloomhaven and Lotr: Journeys in Middle Earth, both are good games but a little overrated IMO.
Nice to hear your thoughts on this and get a balanced opinion. Would love to see you review Unfathomable 😄
Totally agree! I passed on Unfathomable due to the expectation of needing a big group, lots of hours etc and not easily being able to do that. But if I get a chance to play it I will and I'll certainly do first impressions.
Great review! Thanks!
The parallel with LotR:JoME is enough to keep me away. I enjoy JoME, but you're so right about the big box expansions. A lot of money for a game I'll probably only play once.
Yeah once I'm done with the campaign I won't hang on to this.
Had zero desire when I first read about this game and that hasn’t changed.
Glad i at least confirmed your expectations! :D
I think there's fair points. It's a fairly typical dungeon crawler of you explore, move, and kill monsters. The story is easily the weakest point, particularly because of how much it's talking heads.
However, I don't get the setup issue. You don't tear down the 3D terrain once it's setup. So, that means all you have to do is add 3-4 pillars to the few raised pieces of terrain in the game. And, it's only like 30-60 seconds to attach the pillars. Maybe it's actually an organization or table space issue?
As far as storage for future expansions, I'm not seeing any reason an Act 2 won't find in the core box. The bottom section still has a lot of room left. And, the miniature trays waste a lot of space in the top section. Like most injection molded miniature trays, they're pretty crap and will be the first thing I toss when I need more room.
As far as where I'd rate this with comparable games...
- I haven't played Descent 2E.
- I like Imperial Assault more than this game. And, I would recommend someone get IA with multiple expansions before Descent.
- Additionally, I like Mansion of Madness 2E more than this game. While I think Descent has a more interesting combat mechanism, MoM is such a sold mystery adventure game.
- I like Descent better than Journey's in Middle Earth. I find JiME's deck usage interesting where you can stack successes or use cards for active abilities, but it's not very engaging. I enjoyed the game enough to get the expansions, but I feel like the gameplay is too focused on interactions.
A few things I wish they'd have done with Descent...
- Make elevation matter. It could be a simple as modifying ranged attacks. +1 hit if you're attacking a lower elevation, -1 hit if you're attacking a higher elevation.
- Make the terrain more interesting for combat. It's weird to me that JiME's battle maps do more interesting things with terrain than this. I want to kick the cauldron over onto the baddies and do damage. I want to be able to flip the table and hunker down behind it. Let us use the terrain in some capacity other than searching it.
It's everything you do though. The dream one for example has you maintaining two separate maps. And you have to get the underlays, put things like stairs, chests, shelves, etc in place. It all adds up over time. I prefer IA as well. And I much prefer MoM and JIME to this game.
Hi Luke, I’m interested in how this compares to Destinies (which I regret buying) particularly where the app almost becomes the focus of the game when you play solo (as in Destinies) - is that the case here?
The app has more of a purpose here but you can't use it on its own. It doesn't track the pieces on the table such as characters and enemies so you still need those, it's mainly for combat, inventory and the map layout.
@@TheBrokenMeeple thanks Luke - and thanks for a measured review - very helpful
Great to hear your take on this game! It sort of solidified my initial impressions that it feels sort of meh, not bad and certainly has some cool components but at the same time I just don't feel drawn to the character artwork and overall it feels a bit like a generic video game rpg which I'd probably find easier to play (and cheaper) on my console.
Too expensive to be just ok.
Those who have played - how does set up/ play time compare to mansions of madness? I have a group of 3 who love MoM and was considering getting this… but sounds like it may take longer?
This takes longer I feel. MoM tells you everything to set it up in the app as you do a scenario. In Descent you have the stuff in between missions if you're doing it and terrain to set up rather than just putting a tile down. Plus MoM doesn't need you to spend hours assembling all the terrain when you buy it.
Buy the core box and then keep having to buy expansions. So like most dungeon crawlers Fantasy Flight puts out then? LOTR, Mansions of Madness, Imperial Assault. Even before Asmodee bought them, they seemed to be headed in this direction to me.
That's true, but I've already spent as much as a core + 2 expansions on one core box here.
Haha! I have the game, I enjoy the game, is it a £130 game….no. I’ve been kidding myself it’s better than it is and sometimes you need someone to take you to one side and whisper a few truths in your ear😂 That said, I’ll still pick up the expansion. A very fair review👍
Thank you!
well.. you can save the game and pick up later... so.. length is not an issue.. to play a scenario over several short sessions.
You assume there's a lot of opportunities to get in these short sessions. Also the danger with that approach is that you forget what was going on when you go back to the scenario. Always best to save in between, not during.
Playing this now. I know exactly how you feel (2nd mission) where you think you’re done and all of a sudden act 2 comes in.
Yeah I mean I'd have taken more missions but shorter timeframes personally. Which was the 2nd mission you did? I did the Dwarven one.
@@TheBrokenMeeple we did the cat one.
Good, honest video here. I'm on the fence and still gonna sit there and wait to see what FFG bring out in the future. Thanks
Thanks! I can see the merits of this but I think some reviewers are potentially overlooking the cost factor and what you get for that cost, when ideally it's a major consideration.
@@TheBrokenMeeple agreed, to put it into perspective, Gloomhaven was cheaper!!
I'm glad you referenced Tainted Grail and TWoM, both of which have truly compelling writing. Meanwhile the majority of fantasy dungeon-crawlers all too often present generic story lines. I always find this immensely ironic, that 'fantasy' is so often unimaginative as a genre.
Totally! It's so hard to make anything original when it comes to a fantasy setting any more.
But, the story and narrative in this game beats the absolute pants off of Tainted Grail. That game's story beats and writing were standard basic, and the combat was a chore.
Yeah got the game hoping that the ease of play would make it a good game for my wife and I but alas no.
We only played mission 1 and we can't be bothered with it. I think I'll just stay away from dungeon crawler anyway.
I need to sell it soon.
Fair enough, I'd get selling now while it's still hot.
I thought I agreed with all of this, until I played it. Bought it and played it some more. And I disagree on most nearly all points. Tainted Grail, in particular, compares poorly in every way to this game. I was so sure I would dislike this take on Descent, but it's a solid 9/10. The only real weakness is the admittedly cheap and silly cardboard dragon. Tainted Grail was a 4/10 for me. It had boring writing, unwarranted bloat, and combat that was a chore.
I'm certainly not going to deny that TG has its flaws. I do have to house rule some of the grinding nature of the game to make it "my own" per say. However I will still defend that it's a far greater product than Descent 3.0.
"Bloat" - I would argue that a ton of cardboard terrain that looks like low graphic PC pixels or dull flat terrain sheets is worse bloat, bare in mind that's why your box costs over £150. TG doesn't need Sundrop figures or the extra monster minis for sure, but they were optional, not mandatory inclusions.
"Writing" - this I respectfully have to disagree a ton on. One of my favourite things in TG is the story and writing. It's done like a proper gritty fantasy and having voice narration on the companion app only adds to it (which incidentally didn't cost extra). Descent has no voice narration and the writing is worse than the worst of CW show dialogue. There's barely a story arc and the character interaction is more like a parody than an actual serious plot. Even those who like the game tend to comment on the bad writing and many other reviewers have also (TV inclusive)
The combat I can take or leave. I like the card system but admittedly, the locations which auto generate encounters can be a pain, hence I make those "optional" not mandatory. But then the combat in Descent is only fine at best. You don't have a lot of options even with card flippery nonsense and it's still luck of the dice.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Descent fits in one box. And you do a lot more interacting with the furniture in Descent than you do the Menhirs in TG. Those things could have been tokens, and then maybe there wouldn't be so much stuff. I gave TG a good go. I have a friend who loves doing the Kickstarter thing, and has the whole pile. At first, I highly enjoyed it. I don't need top tier writing, just a plot to follow. But man, the miniatures have never seemed more pointless in a game, to me. And then after a few encounters, I realized I hated that symbol matching system that plays out during battle. It doesn't feel like what it is trying to represent. It feels too gamified, I guess? IDK, I'm not a reviewer. But the systems and writing were not to my taste in TG. And, as a fan and previous collector of Descent 1st and 2nd, I was upset about LoTD. It seemed like a massive mistake to change Descent in all the ways they did. I felt all the same things before I even played it. But it isn't a dungeon crawler like those, it's a dungeon crawler like Mansions of Madness. And what the app allows the story to do is just better to me than any system of checkmarks besides Fabled Lands.
I guess we just have different taste in writing and UX, at least in this instance. I was prepared to hate it, but I couldn't deny all the things it did right. The miniatures alone are the finest FF has ever produced, there is more variety in the enemies than previous editions. Also, I found that the flipping and crafting systems create all sorts of interesting chains to set up in combat. You can even spend fatigue to affect dice rolls, mitigating some of the luck factor. Anyways, luck factor is the great equalizer. I need a little dice chucking or something in there.
I too really enjoy this game. I find myself thinking about possible improvements to equipment and strategies between sessions. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but it truly holds my attention. The people I have told about this game want to try it so we have multiple campaigns going on.
Just by doing that, you think I would lose enthusiasm. I have not. I appreciate this review. It gives me food for thought, but in the end, if I have fun with the game, I think that’s the goal anyway.
Great review thank you I enjoyed this game 😊
Fantasy Flight games are such a waste of money. Thanks Luke!
Ti4 and Cosmic Encounter are the exceptions!
very balanced review
Thank you!
How does this get a 6? No replayability, no tactical decisions, not great 3D tiles (they look very low quality and almost pixelated, plus, its a chore to set up), very little components aside from the terrain, no useful insert, bad narrative... What exactly is good about this game?
Easy to learn, a well crafted app, fantastic miniatures, plenty of content even if only one playthrough, still immersive thematically even if the writing isn't anything to sing home about. Fun to level up characters and acquire new loot. Best played solo rather than a group which was my main experience. There is still good parts to this game, but the price tag hurts it.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Personally, I dont care for minis. I dont think either good minis enhnace a bad game that much or that bad minis spoil a good game that much.
Most of the content is in the app, right? Because as far as actual components go, there seems to be not that many. If so, then its just a "good app" point.
I dont think a game with just a good app and a "fun" level up mechanic (which still offers less choices than Descent 2ed) deserves a 6.
The app is the central focus point of the game, it can't be simply dismissed as a tiny aspect. The worst this game could be is a 5.
What is going on with this accent?
Welcome to South West England
Thank you for the review! I am glad you went ahead and created your video as It answered a lot of questions I had about the game.
Glad you found it useful!