Thank you for the great video. Not boring at all and I learned that there is a reason why one needs to be careful when using slimline breakers and also that it is okay to use two wires and a ground wire for water heaters.
In cases where the existing wiring is 12 awg and replacing it with a proper 10 awg too inconvenient and/or cost prohibitive, replace the 4500 watt elements with 3500. This will ensure the wiring doesn't overheat, although it will reduce the heater's recovery rate, so households may have to adjust their expectations accordingly, often easier said than done for parents of teenage girls.
I learned so much just with this video, I was almost ready to put a 4500 watt 40 gallon water heater on 12/2 20amp breaker. I decide to look for a 3500/3800 watt water heater which had come with the manufactured home. Thank you for explaining this.
Helped me a ton on the job! Customer had power running through white wire to ground bar, had to redirect to the breaker lug, taped black tape for identification and now works perfectly!
Trades dealing with electrical distribution when they don't know what they are doing scares the crap out of me. It's amazing what I have seen over the past 20 years when working with plumbers and even with electricians during renovations.
This is a very useful video. I bought a house that was seriously neglected by the original owner, then someone else bought it and the made all kinds of "fixes" and now I am stuck fixing their fixes. On top of all that, I think the water heater might be going out and I thought it would be a very easy fix. After seeing this, I am not so sure, but will run a new 10 amp line if I have to. Hopefully the power usage spikes aren't due to the power lines melting or anything like that.
Yes, never fun to fix someone else's mistakes. And just to make sure, you said a 10 amp line, but it's most likely a 30 amp circuit and you'd be running 10/2 wire to it. I'm sure that's probably what you meant, but just for clarification. Let me know if you need any help diagnosing weird stuff.
I’m struggling to get this information across to some coworkers. We install lots of water heaters, and a bunch of them go into mobile homes where this is an extremely common issue. The solution is super simple: downsize the default 4500 watt elements with 3500 ones. Like you said, you ‘probably’ won’t have issues. If you do, however, it can be annoying or dangerous, neither of which are ideal. Thanks for this information. It will arm me to better help educate my coworkers on this issue.
Good thinking. 3500 watt elements would eliminate the issue of overloading a 20 amp 240v circuit, but would definitely extend heating time. Compromises are a part of life and that's probably the best solution if running a 30 amp circuit isn't possible.
No! it hasn't been a boring video at all . it has been intriguing.. very interesting.. I learned quite a bit.. especially with the jumper line bar . I didn't know that and I just did some Slimline breaker work in a panel not too long ago, so now I have to go back and look.. but I'm working on a water heater for a trailer right now.. and you answered my very specific question I was looking for . so this is been the best video ever thank you and I love your voice wow sexy
My Dad just replaced his water heater without looking at his breaker or wire and it's tripping. WH spec only require 2000w/120v so less than 25amp, right? The circuit breaker for the WH currently is a double 20amp slot, so that mean it accommodate 40amp? It looks like a 10 guage copper wires 2 colors and green grounding. Is the breaker tripping because 40amp is too high? Should replace it with 30 amp or even 25 amp?
So it sounds like he is hooking up hot to neutral because he's using a dual 20 amp breaker (2 hots = 240 volts) for what would only be a 120 volt connection (1 hot, 1 neutral). I'm guessing it's a 20 gallon water heater. So he would need to remove the dual 20 amp breaker and just put in a single 20 amp breaker, hook up one of the conductors to that and then take the additional wire and put it on the neutral bar. It's possible though that he could have damaged the electrical of the heater if he was feeding hot down the neutral. The grounding conductor is simply there to make sure that nobody gets shocked and it will trip the breaker if hot is fed down the wrong side (like in this case). So it sounds like the ground is doing what it's supposed to.
Hi, I learned a few things but im still a little confused lol. I recently got a Steibel Trend 24 on-demand hot water heater and it calls for two 50 amp DP and two 8/2 AWG wire. I called Steibel and he said it needs 2 breakers that will take up 4 slots. Two DP breakers means that it will take all 4 wires and no nuetral, correct? My dad has the exact same heater but says that his electircian hooked it up to a single 50 amp DP breaker, I'm not sure what that looks like as I havent looked at it myself. And I just ordered two 50 amp DP breakers.
Yeah, so you might want to check the manual, but it is probable that it's just four hots and a ground going into the panel (it is fine to connect both line's ground to the panel if the ground lug allows two grounds), but you only need one if you're running individual hots and a ground to the panel. So yes, it's a basic install like a normal water heater but pulls a LOT more amps to heat water instantaneously. If you use slimline breakers like in a GE panel, just make sure you're bridging between two hot bars so that you are pulling amperage equally off both sides. And again, make sure power is turned off and you're following the installation manual because some do require a neutral if they have special 120v circuits inside.
Thank you! I did pull up the manual online but it doesn't talk about wiring up the breakers at all, just that it's 240v and needs 2x50A breakers and 2 x 8/2 awg. Outside of that I can't find any specific info on wiring up the breakers.
I looked up the wiring diagram online and it shows 4 hots and 1 ground going into the panel (8/2 with ground and 8/2 without ground coming from two double pole 50amp breakers). So it's just like you said. If I ran two 8/2 into the panel I would put a wire nut on one ground and only connect one line's ground like they show. This site has the installation manual at the bottom of the page as a downloadable pdf: www.stiebeleltronamericas.com/en/products/tempra-series-whole-house-tankless-electric-water-heaters
Thank you I appreciate it! And just to confirm, on the unit L1 and L2 should go to one breaker and then the other L1 and L2 would go to the other breaker? Other than that it doesn't matter which wire goes where on the breaker correct? It's been awhile since I've hooked anything up.
I have a Rheem 5500 / 5500 Gladiator installed in a 20A @ 240v circuit. Last couple days where the weather is a bit colder, the breaker tripped twice after W/H running for around 30-40min while family taking shower. So I'm going to replace breaker and wiring. The company that replaced the W/H mess up the electrical part. Gonna fix myself.
Yeah, that water heater runs at 22.92 amps so it requires a 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire. I'm guessing they left it on a 20 amp circuit because the old one had just 12 ga. wire for the circuit? If so, good for them, because otherwise you could have had a serious fire. However, if they installed 12 ga. wire then that was bad on them for not installing the proper wire to the unit. Obviously, they should have informed you either way.
So you are good with the 10/2 wire running to the water heater. The only reason a 20 amp is "incorrect" is because a water heater could cause the breaker to flip if it uses beyond the 20 amps the breaker is rated for. Breakers are meant to protect the wire from pulling too much current, but 10 gauge wires are rated for use with a 30 amp breaker. So if your breaker is flipping off occasionally, (and your water heater is rated for a 30 amp breaker, which 99% of all water heaters in residential service are), then you can change out the 20 amp breaker for a 30 and you should be good. If you are having some other problem let me know and I'll try to help you diagnose it.
So I'm just curious, I have an electric 50-gallon AO Smith heater, I replaced both thermostats and both elements but even after that, the heater doesn't seem to be turning on, I also made sure that the breakers weren't tripping.
So I assume you checked that you have power to the unit? Breakers can go bad even if they still function, so that's where I would check first. Then I would check that the elements are getting power. If they aren't you need to check where the last spot power comes to. Look up the electrical diagram for your unit if you don't have the paper it came with.
@MyFortressConstruction I just checked my elements, and apparently, they aren't getting any power at all, I really think the breakers could be the culprit to this. I really do appreciate hearing back from you
@MyFortressConstruction I just replaced the breakers to the water heater. Unfortunately, it didn't fix anything, but since there's power going through the wires, I feel like there may be improper wiring somewhere as an electrician recently did all the electrical work.
So, a lot of things could be going on. How are you probing the 2 pole breaker? Is the two pole breaker a standard size or thin line? It is possible to put a two pole breaker so that it's pulling from only one half of the breaker panel. Easy solution if you just can't figure it out is if you remove the breaker (shut off the main power first), take another functioning 2 pole breaker and wire it in the place of the other. If the water heater starts working again, then you'll know the breaker was the issue. However, I'd recommend getting a $5 voltmeter or multimeter and see what the voltage coming off either legs actually was.
@@cx1741 So 10/2 means that it has 2 conductors that are size 10 ga. (it also has a bare ground wire). I would highly recommend hiring an electrician to do the work because there is a lot more to it than just choosing the correct sized wire and breaker. If you are determined to do this yourself then watch a lot of videos on proper water heater installation and make sure you have the proper tools so you don't burn up your water heater, flood your house or electrocute yourself. If there's anything else you have questions on, feel free to ask.
I need help! I bought a mobile home for my parents and switched out their hot water heater for a tankless. The breaker for the water heater is an4 pole breaker it has 2qty 40amp breakers side by side on the inside and 2qty 20amp breakers on the outside: 20/40/40/20 . I have a red, black and copper wire. The old heater had a wire in each of the 20amp breakers. There are no other wires or appliances on this breaker. I resided the (new breaker) breaker the same way as the old tank water heater but it’s tripping. The heater is a Rheem 8kw and requires a 2 pole 40 amp breaker. Should I have wired it in the 40amp a and not the 20’s? God I hope this makes sense😂 . … I learned a lot from your video!
I know you're not a dummy, but I have to say first that you are messing with some serious electricity so make sure you understand the risk and ways to protect yourself before doing any work. An electrician is always the way to go if you can. I have melted metal bits and wrenches from messing in live panels where I wasn't using proper tools. Thankfully I had enough insulation between me and the electricity to not pass through me, but it taught me to be more careful and not mess around while things are live. Onto your actual question. Send me your model number so I can see which unit you have. It's possible that it only requires two hots like a standard water heater, but my guess (based on you saying it has a dual 20amp and dual 40amp breaker) is that it requires four conductors, plus neutrals and grounds. You can probably use the old 10ga wire with the 20 amp breakers, but you will need to run 8ga wire for 40amp. Also, you may need neutrals with this unit so send me the model number and I might be able to point you in the right direction.
Water heater was working perfect and after the elements got wet it stopped functioning now even with a new water heater is not working at all could that be the wiring coming from the box
With any kind of electrical issue you always work backwards. So is power coming to the unit? If not, then you check the next connection, and the next until you get to the source. So definitely check the wires coming into the water heater to make sure there's power, if no voltage is detected then go to the next connection point which could be a junction box next to the water heater, or it could be inside the main panel. Breakers go bad, connections become loose, wires inside of walls can be chewed by rodents and short (hot/ground touching). Just be careful!
Pretty sure you are not allowed to have exposed romex coming out of the wall directly to the water heater. It needs to be run inside a shielded flexible conduit to a wall panel within 3' of the heater.
So there are certain instances that require using larger gauge wire due to heat or distance, but I have seen 10/2 run to water heaters 200' away with zero issues.
@@Tomtom9401 No problem. The more in-depth answer is: The issue with using certain gauge wire over long distance is usually the voltage drop. Most of the time it doesn't effect anything, but in certain circumstances you can drop beneath the recommended manufacturer voltage. Over a 200' distance a regular 50 gallon electric water heater will pull about 20ish amps and will have a little over 3% voltage drop. That's not ideal as it would take a 240 volt current down to 232 or so. If the system is already giving you a low voltage (220s) then you could fall beneath the required voltage, for whatever it is, to run well. The NEC doesn't want anything over 3% but most systems are close to 240 and can handle it.
I came here simply to learn how to wire/connect a water heater onto a circuit breaker and got a long lesson on electrical. I can probably take the exam and pass to become a licensed electrician and all I wanted to know is how to connect a water heater but never learned how to do it. Never saw an orange wire coming from the water heater connected any where. Let me look else where.
Lol. Yeah, this was more about theory than installation. I am the type of person that struggled with math because I wanted to know "Why?". I'm sure you'll find the video you were hoping for.
I've just had a new 60 gallon giant cascade water heater installed. But my water tank breaker keeps tripping. The specs say that the tank generates 40 amps and needs a 25-30 amp breaker, but I do have a 30 amp breaker. What could the problem be? Thanks
What is running to the tank? Is it 10/2 with ground? It's possible it's the breaker itself, or a short in the tank's electronics or in the wire itself. A breaker trips over current/heat and that can be from hot contacting ground/neutral or from a higher demand than the breaker is rated for. I would turn it on and run hot water and use my ammeter to see what current draw is on it. If it's going higher than the breaker rating then something's wrong with the WH or wiring. So first I would use my ammeter or multimeter to find out the amperage being pulled, and if it was normal then I would change the breaker. If it wasn't normal then I would want to start testing the individual elements and seeing if they might be pulling more than they should be. I would also start "googling" to find out if other people had a problem with their water heater of the same brand. Using some common sense, Google and a multimeter, or ammeter, you should be able to narrow down the problem. Report back what it is and you might help someone else!
You need two separate circuits providing power to each one and then you can decide whether you want to connect the water lines in series or in parallel. I made a video of gas water heaters in series here: ruclips.net/video/1usbFPVvGBk/видео.html
Illegal, there needs to be a two pole 240 volt disconnect switch near the water heater. Also metal clad cable needs to be used. You can't have exposed Romex below 8 feet.
Ah yes, sorry I must have mis-spoken. I meant to say you shouldn't have a load on the system that is more than 80% of the breaker capacity. Thanks for the clarification. Breakers can run for a minute or two with twice the amps running on them than they are rated for.
Yes, I mentioned that not only was the breaker inside the box turned off, but the main shut off at the meter was also turned off (and had a lock out tag on it too). Can't be too redundant with electrical safety!
Hoping someone will help me confirm my thinking on my hybrid water heater electrical wiring hookup. I have a 30 amp 2 pole breaker using 10-3 wire to the old water heater. I installed the old heater 12 years ago and bought this new hybrid. But I forgot to check my electrical wiring using the 10-3 wire. Usually take a pic, but didn't. Anyway, I just want to be sure how I connect wires. Water heater has typical black and red plus green ground inside. I have red, black and white neutral with ground coming from panel/30 amp breaker. I believe I can connect red to red and black to black from 10-3 wire I have coming from panel to water heater. And then white neutral of 10-3 to chassis of heater inside electric compartment and ground to green ground screw. Anyone help me out? I've always been wondering why both neutral and grounds are connect to bus bars inside home electrical panels. Which from what I've seen both bus bars are connected to metal of electrical panels. I ask a retired electrical friend about why and never really got a clear explanation except to say they are often connected to same bus bars inside panels. Anyway more concerned is my wiring idea for water heater is correct from anyone who knows about using 3 wire connecting to heater with 2 wire and ground. Thanks
Good questions: So the only purpose of having a neutral with your water heater is if it has a 120 volts system inside of it such as a fan or Wi-Fi connection or something else that needs 120 volts. A standard water heater only uses two hots and a ground. If your new water heater does not have a place for the neutral then you do not hook it up, just cap it. The reason why some panels are bonded with neutral and ground is because of the way electricity works. It is a little complex but here is a good place to learn the basics: ruclips.net/video/_XM6rXjv0vc/видео.html
@@MyFortressConstruction Yes it does have Wi-Fi and a fan, but no white neutral. I guess it's probably internally wired to handle those items with electronic circuitry. I try what you said. Thanks for the link. Although I'm not sure I totally get the difference, at least when a short actually occurs. I think the video is saying, then both ground and neutral carry voltage and can shock you. Otherwise Neutral splits 240 into 120 on each side the leg. While ground is to protect you from shock by sending voltage to earth. Maybe???
@@bertpainter8385 It is possible that your water heater is built to run off 10/2 since that's how most water heaters have been wired in the past, just make sure that's the case. Definitely don't attach neutral to the chassis like ground though. What's the make and model? As to neutrals: If the circuit isn't completed back to the transformer then the breaker won't necessarily sense that current is running on the ground, is my understanding. The ground is "a" path but returning current to the transformer is the "true" path. Grounding is a fail safe to try and coerce the electrons to it instead of you since it's looking for the path of least resistance, but a breaker is made up of a heat sensing strip as well as magnets that sense the field of electrons. The flow of unhindered current down the neutral triggers the breaker more reliably. Again, this is my basic understanding and may be missing key points.
@@MyFortressConstruction Thanks for taking the time to reply and explain, which was a much better explaination than what I've research online and from my retire union electrician I just spoke with. He also said to wire nut the neutral off. I asked him if I should do the same inside the panel too, but he didn't think it was necessary. The water heater is a Rheem Performance Platinum 50 Gal. 10-Year Hybrid High Efficiency Smart Tank Electric Water Heater
@@bertpainter8385 👍 I just looked up the wiring diagram for that model and it showed that it only required two hot legs and a ground. If the fan, wifi, etc. did not function then it would indicate that a neutral was missing, but if everything is working without the neutral then that is further confirmation that you are good to go.
Assuming your water heater has 4500 watt elements 25 amp breaker & 10 awg meets the minimum requirements. (4500 ÷ 240 = 18.75A) × 125% = 23.4A. Because 10 awg wiring is good for 30 amps and 25 amp breakers are a rather oddball size typically reserved for HVAC systems and some motor applications, it's common practice to use 30 amp breakers for a water heater. Note that some water heaters have 5500 wart elements and require 30 amp minimum. More rarely the water heater is configured for simultaneous operation (both elements come on at the same time) and use two 30 amp circuits or one 50 amp circuit, this would typically be seen in a commercial setting such as a restaurant, or in a very large household with extreme hot water usage such that non-simultaneous operation is inadequate and a larger tank cannot be installed for some reason.
They make them. It's a standard size. Problem is you just don't go to home Depot and buy one off the shelf because they don't carry them. If you really want one you'll have to go to a good electricsl supply house that will sell to the public.
Yes, you can always up size your wire ( to the limit of the terminals at least), but not the breakers. The equipment mfg. will specify breaker minimum/maximum.
Yes, you're correct. I meant that breakers shouldn't be more than 80% loaded to capacity, but breakers can run 10% or more over capacity before flipping.
You're not wrong, but tandem and 2 pole are terms that manufacturers use interchangeably sometimes and fundamentally they're the same if you are connecting to a system that allows a tandem to be in contact with both poles of the panel, which is one of the points of the video. If you're using a thin line/tandem breaker you need to make sure you're putting it into the right spot so that both poles are engaged. A true 2-pole breaker forces you to connect to both due to its size.
Power coming to heater verified? Did you wait to turn it on until the tank was full of water and the lines purged? A new tank can burn up the elements quickly if there's not water inside. I have had a new tank (6 months or so) stop heating very well. Checked the elements (dual) and reconnected everything and it was working fine. Figured it was a bad connection. But start with the basics (power coming in is correct) then check wiring on the tank. May God bless your endeavor!
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Thank you for the great video. Not boring at all and I learned that there is a reason why one needs to be careful when using slimline breakers and also that it is okay to use two wires and a ground wire for water heaters.
Great! I know I can go off on rabbit trails, but it is encouraging when someone says they've learned something helpful.
Exactly the video I was looking for. Thank you for the great explanations, there was absolutely no rabbit trails in this video. Thank you for posting.
Learned something new today about slim line connectors. Appreciate the education. Not boring at all.
In cases where the existing wiring is 12 awg and replacing it with a proper 10 awg too inconvenient and/or cost prohibitive, replace the 4500 watt elements with 3500. This will ensure the wiring doesn't overheat, although it will reduce the heater's recovery rate, so households may have to adjust their expectations accordingly, often easier said than done for parents of teenage girls.
I learned so much just with this video, I was almost ready to put a 4500 watt 40 gallon water heater on 12/2 20amp breaker. I decide to look for a 3500/3800 watt water heater which had come with the manufactured home. Thank you for explaining this.
Great, glad it helped.
Thanks for all the info, not boring at all! I learned new stuff today Sir!
You're welcome, glad it helped.
Helped me a ton on the job! Customer had power running through white wire to ground bar, had to redirect to the breaker lug, taped black tape for identification and now works perfectly!
Good to hear, that's all I hope for with these videos.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video as it has helped me significantly!!!
Glad it helped!
Having the same exact issue. Thanks for the video it confirms my problem!
You're welcome, glad it helped!
Trades dealing with electrical distribution when they don't know what they are doing scares the crap out of me. It's amazing what I have seen over the past 20 years when working with plumbers and even with electricians during renovations.
Be educated, be sure of your knowledge and application and be careful. Someone's life could be at stake.
This is a very useful video. I bought a house that was seriously neglected by the original owner, then someone else bought it and the made all kinds of "fixes" and now I am stuck fixing their fixes. On top of all that, I think the water heater might be going out and I thought it would be a very easy fix. After seeing this, I am not so sure, but will run a new 10 amp line if I have to. Hopefully the power usage spikes aren't due to the power lines melting or anything like that.
Yes, never fun to fix someone else's mistakes. And just to make sure, you said a 10 amp line, but it's most likely a 30 amp circuit and you'd be running 10/2 wire to it. I'm sure that's probably what you meant, but just for clarification. Let me know if you need any help diagnosing weird stuff.
Very interesting . I learned more and mor. Thank you
Glad to hear it!
Not boring at all I think you may have just solved my problem God bless you pulling off of the same buss bar
Great, glad it helped!
I’m struggling to get this information across to some coworkers. We install lots of water heaters, and a bunch of them go into mobile homes where this is an extremely common issue. The solution is super simple: downsize the default 4500 watt elements with 3500 ones. Like you said, you ‘probably’ won’t have issues. If you do, however, it can be annoying or dangerous, neither of which are ideal. Thanks for this information. It will arm me to better help educate my coworkers on this issue.
Good thinking. 3500 watt elements would eliminate the issue of overloading a 20 amp 240v circuit, but would definitely extend heating time. Compromises are a part of life and that's probably the best solution if running a 30 amp circuit isn't possible.
thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.
You bet! Hope it was helpful.
Thanks for the video
You're welcome. The more knowledge we share, the better we get. I'm always learning.
No! it hasn't been a boring video at all .
it has been intriguing.. very interesting.. I learned quite a bit.. especially with the jumper line bar .
I didn't know that and I just did some Slimline breaker work in a panel not too long ago, so now I have to go back and look..
but I'm working on a water heater for a trailer right now..
and you answered my very specific question I was looking for .
so this is been the best video ever
thank you
and I love your voice wow sexy
My Dad just replaced his water heater without looking at his breaker or wire and it's tripping. WH spec only require 2000w/120v so less than 25amp, right? The circuit breaker for the WH currently is a double 20amp slot, so that mean it accommodate 40amp? It looks like a 10 guage copper wires 2 colors and green grounding. Is the breaker tripping because 40amp is too high? Should replace it with 30 amp or even 25 amp?
So it sounds like he is hooking up hot to neutral because he's using a dual 20 amp breaker (2 hots = 240 volts) for what would only be a 120 volt connection (1 hot, 1 neutral). I'm guessing it's a 20 gallon water heater. So he would need to remove the dual 20 amp breaker and just put in a single 20 amp breaker, hook up one of the conductors to that and then take the additional wire and put it on the neutral bar. It's possible though that he could have damaged the electrical of the heater if he was feeding hot down the neutral. The grounding conductor is simply there to make sure that nobody gets shocked and it will trip the breaker if hot is fed down the wrong side (like in this case). So it sounds like the ground is doing what it's supposed to.
Thanks so much this was so help5
Glad it was helpful!
Hi, I learned a few things but im still a little confused lol. I recently got a Steibel Trend 24 on-demand hot water heater and it calls for two 50 amp DP and two 8/2 AWG wire. I called Steibel and he said it needs 2 breakers that will take up 4 slots. Two DP breakers means that it will take all 4 wires and no nuetral, correct? My dad has the exact same heater but says that his electircian hooked it up to a single 50 amp DP breaker, I'm not sure what that looks like as I havent looked at it myself. And I just ordered two 50 amp DP breakers.
Yeah, so you might want to check the manual, but it is probable that it's just four hots and a ground going into the panel (it is fine to connect both line's ground to the panel if the ground lug allows two grounds), but you only need one if you're running individual hots and a ground to the panel. So yes, it's a basic install like a normal water heater but pulls a LOT more amps to heat water instantaneously. If you use slimline breakers like in a GE panel, just make sure you're bridging between two hot bars so that you are pulling amperage equally off both sides. And again, make sure power is turned off and you're following the installation manual because some do require a neutral if they have special 120v circuits inside.
Thank you! I did pull up the manual online but it doesn't talk about wiring up the breakers at all, just that it's 240v and needs 2x50A breakers and 2 x 8/2 awg. Outside of that I can't find any specific info on wiring up the breakers.
And that's not counting the ground, I believe.
Says Power connection 2/GRD
I looked up the wiring diagram online and it shows 4 hots and 1 ground going into the panel (8/2 with ground and 8/2 without ground coming from two double pole 50amp breakers). So it's just like you said. If I ran two 8/2 into the panel I would put a wire nut on one ground and only connect one line's ground like they show. This site has the installation manual at the bottom of the page as a downloadable pdf: www.stiebeleltronamericas.com/en/products/tempra-series-whole-house-tankless-electric-water-heaters
Thank you I appreciate it!
And just to confirm, on the unit L1 and L2 should go to one breaker and then the other L1 and L2 would go to the other breaker? Other than that it doesn't matter which wire goes where on the breaker correct? It's been awhile since I've hooked anything up.
I have a Rheem 5500 / 5500 Gladiator installed in a 20A @ 240v circuit.
Last couple days where the weather is a bit colder, the breaker tripped twice after W/H running for around 30-40min while family taking shower. So I'm going to replace breaker and wiring. The company that replaced the W/H mess up the electrical part. Gonna fix myself.
Yeah, that water heater runs at 22.92 amps so it requires a 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire. I'm guessing they left it on a 20 amp circuit because the old one had just 12 ga. wire for the circuit? If so, good for them, because otherwise you could have had a serious fire. However, if they installed 12 ga. wire then that was bad on them for not installing the proper wire to the unit. Obviously, they should have informed you either way.
so you used a 30a for water heater? i got 20a on 10/2 wire having problems with it
So you are good with the 10/2 wire running to the water heater. The only reason a 20 amp is "incorrect" is because a water heater could cause the breaker to flip if it uses beyond the 20 amps the breaker is rated for. Breakers are meant to protect the wire from pulling too much current, but 10 gauge wires are rated for use with a 30 amp breaker. So if your breaker is flipping off occasionally, (and your water heater is rated for a 30 amp breaker, which 99% of all water heaters in residential service are), then you can change out the 20 amp breaker for a 30 and you should be good. If you are having some other problem let me know and I'll try to help you diagnose it.
Wow thank you yes I'm headed back with the 30 amp breaker I got a multimeter too just in case I have to test the water heater
So I'm just curious, I have an electric 50-gallon AO Smith heater, I replaced both thermostats and both elements but even after that, the heater doesn't seem to be turning on, I also made sure that the breakers weren't tripping.
So I assume you checked that you have power to the unit? Breakers can go bad even if they still function, so that's where I would check first. Then I would check that the elements are getting power. If they aren't you need to check where the last spot power comes to. Look up the electrical diagram for your unit if you don't have the paper it came with.
@MyFortressConstruction I just checked my elements, and apparently, they aren't getting any power at all, I really think the breakers could be the culprit to this. I really do appreciate hearing back from you
@@OctAngel Great, I'd love to hear what you figure out. Hope it's just the breaker.
@MyFortressConstruction I just replaced the breakers to the water heater. Unfortunately, it didn't fix anything, but since there's power going through the wires, I feel like there may be improper wiring somewhere as an electrician recently did all the electrical work.
@@MyFortressConstruction UPDATE: AFTER AN HOUR OF REPLACING THE BREAKER THE HOT WATER FINALLY CAME ON!!!!
I have A 2way voltage tester it only matks 120 or 240. Anyways it should mark 240 and only marking 120 could the breaker be bad
So, a lot of things could be going on. How are you probing the 2 pole breaker? Is the two pole breaker a standard size or thin line? It is possible to put a two pole breaker so that it's pulling from only one half of the breaker panel. Easy solution if you just can't figure it out is if you remove the breaker (shut off the main power first), take another functioning 2 pole breaker and wire it in the place of the other. If the water heater starts working again, then you'll know the breaker was the issue. However, I'd recommend getting a $5 voltmeter or multimeter and see what the voltage coming off either legs actually was.
Which wire should I use for 50 gallon water heater (4500 w)? Two 20A brake or one 50A?
Neither. Wire size should be 10/2 Nm-b and you should use a double pole 30amp breaker. Let me know if you need more clarification.
@@MyFortressConstruction I don’t understand the wire size, is it a gage 12 wire? It seems 30 amp should use a gage #10 wire. Thanks.
@@cx1741 So 10/2 means that it has 2 conductors that are size 10 ga. (it also has a bare ground wire). I would highly recommend hiring an electrician to do the work because there is a lot more to it than just choosing the correct sized wire and breaker. If you are determined to do this yourself then watch a lot of videos on proper water heater installation and make sure you have the proper tools so you don't burn up your water heater, flood your house or electrocute yourself. If there's anything else you have questions on, feel free to ask.
I need help! I bought a mobile home for my parents and switched out their hot water heater for a tankless. The breaker for the water heater is an4 pole breaker it has 2qty 40amp breakers side by side on the inside and 2qty 20amp breakers on the outside: 20/40/40/20 . I have a red, black and copper wire. The old heater had a wire in each of the 20amp breakers. There are no other wires or appliances on this breaker. I resided the (new breaker) breaker the same way as the old tank water heater but it’s tripping. The heater is a Rheem 8kw and requires a 2 pole 40 amp breaker. Should I have wired it in the 40amp a and not the 20’s? God I hope this makes sense😂 . … I learned a lot from your video!
I know you're not a dummy, but I have to say first that you are messing with some serious electricity so make sure you understand the risk and ways to protect yourself before doing any work. An electrician is always the way to go if you can. I have melted metal bits and wrenches from messing in live panels where I wasn't using proper tools. Thankfully I had enough insulation between me and the electricity to not pass through me, but it taught me to be more careful and not mess around while things are live.
Onto your actual question. Send me your model number so I can see which unit you have. It's possible that it only requires two hots like a standard water heater, but my guess (based on you saying it has a dual 20amp and dual 40amp breaker) is that it requires four conductors, plus neutrals and grounds. You can probably use the old 10ga wire with the 20 amp breakers, but you will need to run 8ga wire for 40amp. Also, you may need neutrals with this unit so send me the model number and I might be able to point you in the right direction.
Water heater was working perfect and after the elements got wet it stopped functioning now even with a new water heater is not working at all could that be the wiring coming from the box
With any kind of electrical issue you always work backwards. So is power coming to the unit? If not, then you check the next connection, and the next until you get to the source. So definitely check the wires coming into the water heater to make sure there's power, if no voltage is detected then go to the next connection point which could be a junction box next to the water heater, or it could be inside the main panel. Breakers go bad, connections become loose, wires inside of walls can be chewed by rodents and short (hot/ground touching). Just be careful!
Pretty sure you are not allowed to have exposed romex coming out of the wall directly to the water heater. It needs to be run inside a shielded flexible conduit to a wall panel within 3' of the heater.
Yes, I talk about that a little around the 4 min mark.
Amazing how people make comments that are made very clear in the video. It's like they didn't even watch the video.
Is 8/2 wire ever needed? My water heater is pretty far away
So there are certain instances that require using larger gauge wire due to heat or distance, but I have seen 10/2 run to water heaters 200' away with zero issues.
@@MyFortressConstruction thank you
@@Tomtom9401 No problem. The more in-depth answer is:
The issue with using certain gauge wire over long distance is usually the voltage drop. Most of the time it doesn't effect anything, but in certain circumstances you can drop beneath the recommended manufacturer voltage. Over a 200' distance a regular 50 gallon electric water heater will pull about 20ish amps and will have a little over 3% voltage drop. That's not ideal as it would take a 240 volt current down to 232 or so. If the system is already giving you a low voltage (220s) then you could fall beneath the required voltage, for whatever it is, to run well. The NEC doesn't want anything over 3% but most systems are close to 240 and can handle it.
And this is why you need a clamp on amp meter.
I came here simply to learn how to wire/connect a water heater onto a circuit breaker and got a long lesson on electrical. I can probably take the exam and pass to become a licensed electrician and all I wanted to know is how to connect a water heater but never learned how to do it. Never saw an orange wire coming from the water heater connected any where. Let me look else where.
Lol. Yeah, this was more about theory than installation. I am the type of person that struggled with math because I wanted to know "Why?". I'm sure you'll find the video you were hoping for.
I've just had a new 60 gallon giant cascade water heater installed. But
my water tank breaker keeps tripping. The specs say that the tank
generates 40 amps and needs a 25-30 amp breaker, but I do have a 30 amp
breaker. What could the problem be? Thanks
What is running to the tank? Is it 10/2 with ground? It's possible it's the breaker itself, or a short in the tank's electronics or in the wire itself. A breaker trips over current/heat and that can be from hot contacting ground/neutral or from a higher demand than the breaker is rated for. I would turn it on and run hot water and use my ammeter to see what current draw is on it. If it's going higher than the breaker rating then something's wrong with the WH or wiring. So first I would use my ammeter or multimeter to find out the amperage being pulled, and if it was normal then I would change the breaker. If it wasn't normal then I would want to start testing the individual elements and seeing if they might be pulling more than they should be. I would also start "googling" to find out if other people had a problem with their water heater of the same brand. Using some common sense, Google and a multimeter, or ammeter, you should be able to narrow down the problem. Report back what it is and you might help someone else!
How can I connect two water heaters on the house
You need two separate circuits providing power to each one and then you can decide whether you want to connect the water lines in series or in parallel. I made a video of gas water heaters in series here: ruclips.net/video/1usbFPVvGBk/видео.html
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Illegal, there needs to be a two pole 240 volt disconnect switch near the water heater. Also metal clad cable needs to be used. You can't have exposed Romex below 8 feet.
You're not wrong, but in our jurisdiction they don't require the shut-off and I talk about the need for a j-box and cladding.
Fact, breakers trip over the rated value not under. Thermal overload on a 20 will occur at 21-26 amps... not 15-20 like stated here
Ah yes, sorry I must have mis-spoken. I meant to say you shouldn't have a load on the system that is more than 80% of the breaker capacity. Thanks for the clarification. Breakers can run for a minute or two with twice the amps running on them than they are rated for.
How do you electric is off because you’re really keeping your hands inside of the box unless I just missed when you said you had turned it off🙀
Yes, I mentioned that not only was the breaker inside the box turned off, but the main shut off at the meter was also turned off (and had a lock out tag on it too). Can't be too redundant with electrical safety!
Hoping someone will help me confirm my thinking on my hybrid water heater electrical wiring hookup. I have a 30 amp 2 pole breaker using 10-3 wire to the old water heater. I installed the old heater 12 years ago and bought this new hybrid. But I forgot to check my electrical wiring using the 10-3 wire. Usually take a pic, but didn't. Anyway, I just want to be sure how I connect wires.
Water heater has typical black and red plus green ground inside. I have red, black and white neutral with ground coming from panel/30 amp breaker. I believe I can connect red to red and black to black from 10-3 wire I have coming from panel to water heater. And then white neutral of 10-3 to chassis of heater inside electric compartment and ground to green ground screw. Anyone help me out?
I've always been wondering why both neutral and grounds are connect to bus bars inside home electrical panels. Which from what I've seen both bus bars are connected to metal of electrical panels. I ask a retired electrical friend about why and never really got a clear explanation except to say they are often connected to same bus bars inside panels. Anyway more concerned is my wiring idea for water heater is correct from anyone who knows about using 3 wire connecting to heater with 2 wire and ground. Thanks
Good questions: So the only purpose of having a neutral with your water heater is if it has a 120 volts system inside of it such as a fan or Wi-Fi connection or something else that needs 120 volts. A standard water heater only uses two hots and a ground. If your new water heater does not have a place for the neutral then you do not hook it up, just cap it. The reason why some panels are bonded with neutral and ground is because of the way electricity works. It is a little complex but here is a good place to learn the basics:
ruclips.net/video/_XM6rXjv0vc/видео.html
@@MyFortressConstruction Yes it does have Wi-Fi and a fan, but no white neutral. I guess it's probably internally wired to handle those items with electronic circuitry. I try what you said.
Thanks for the link. Although I'm not sure I totally get the difference, at least when a short actually occurs. I think the video is saying, then both ground and neutral carry voltage and can shock you. Otherwise Neutral splits 240 into 120 on each side the leg. While ground is to protect you from shock by sending voltage to earth. Maybe???
@@bertpainter8385 It is possible that your water heater is built to run off 10/2 since that's how most water heaters have been wired in the past, just make sure that's the case. Definitely don't attach neutral to the chassis like ground though. What's the make and model?
As to neutrals: If the circuit isn't completed back to the transformer then the breaker won't necessarily sense that current is running on the ground, is my understanding. The ground is "a" path but returning current to the transformer is the "true" path. Grounding is a fail safe to try and coerce the electrons to it instead of you since it's looking for the path of least resistance, but a breaker is made up of a heat sensing strip as well as magnets that sense the field of electrons. The flow of unhindered current down the neutral triggers the breaker more reliably. Again, this is my basic understanding and may be missing key points.
@@MyFortressConstruction Thanks for taking the time to reply and explain, which was a much better explaination than what I've research online and from my retire union electrician I just spoke with. He also said to wire nut the neutral off. I asked him if I should do the same inside the panel too, but he didn't think it was necessary.
The water heater is a Rheem Performance Platinum 50 Gal. 10-Year Hybrid High Efficiency Smart Tank Electric Water Heater
@@bertpainter8385 👍 I just looked up the wiring diagram for that model and it showed that it only required two hot legs and a ground. If the fan, wifi, etc. did not function then it would indicate that a neutral was missing, but if everything is working without the neutral then that is further confirmation that you are good to go.
You need both phases for 240v not just one phase splitting the 120v circuit will only give you 120v
Right: 8:48
I have a 25 amp breaker for my water heater
Assuming your water heater has 4500 watt elements 25 amp breaker & 10 awg meets the minimum requirements. (4500 ÷ 240 = 18.75A) × 125% = 23.4A. Because 10 awg wiring is good for 30 amps and 25 amp breakers are a rather oddball size typically reserved for HVAC systems and some motor applications, it's common practice to use 30 amp breakers for a water heater. Note that some water heaters have 5500 wart elements and require 30 amp minimum. More rarely the water heater is configured for simultaneous operation (both elements come on at the same time) and use two 30 amp circuits or one 50 amp circuit, this would typically be seen in a commercial setting such as a restaurant, or in a very large household with extreme hot water usage such that non-simultaneous operation is inadequate and a larger tank cannot be installed for some reason.
Why would I not find a 25 amp breaker?
Because they don't make them.
They make them. It's a standard size. Problem is you just don't go to home Depot and buy one off the shelf because they don't carry them. If you really want one you'll have to go to a good electricsl supply house that will sell to the public.
Let's say a tankless calls for 2 8/2wires ran to 2 40 amp breakers you can always size up to a 6/2wire just never go lower..
Yes, you can always up size your wire ( to the limit of the terminals at least), but not the breakers. The equipment mfg. will specify breaker minimum/maximum.
I don't think breakers flip at 80% at all. It seems to me that most breakers need over current to flip at all ever.
Yes, you're correct. I meant that breakers shouldn't be more than 80% loaded to capacity, but breakers can run 10% or more over capacity before flipping.
@@MyFortressConstruction 80% continuous load that is. It's ok to run to near 100% for a less than 2 hours (depending on region), as far as I know.
That breaker idnt s 2 pole. Its a tein. Forsnt provide ,249 volts
You're not wrong, but tandem and 2 pole are terms that manufacturers use interchangeably sometimes and fundamentally they're the same if you are connecting to a system that allows a tandem to be in contact with both poles of the panel, which is one of the points of the video. If you're using a thin line/tandem breaker you need to make sure you're putting it into the right spot so that both poles are engaged. A true 2-pole breaker forces you to connect to both due to its size.
I have the same tank and im not getting hot water
Has it been working and then it just stopped?
new water heater installed yet no hot water after 12 hours
Power coming to heater verified? Did you wait to turn it on until the tank was full of water and the lines purged? A new tank can burn up the elements quickly if there's not water inside. I have had a new tank (6 months or so) stop heating very well. Checked the elements (dual) and reconnected everything and it was working fine. Figured it was a bad connection. But start with the basics (power coming in is correct) then check wiring on the tank. May God bless your endeavor!
To much rambling
Yeah, I do that.
No it's not. I like to learn
Pretty disgusting
I don't want to listen to anyone that cries, 'that is not ok.'
U TALK 2 MUCH!!! Ur making urself bored.. ramble ramble ramble......
It's true, there's so much information to cover that without a script it is difficult to nail only the important parts. Wanna write my scripts?