Another great video. As someone suffering from severe depression, I don't think I should be allowed to fly a plane whenever I please via a license. I wouldn't do anything but temptation is there and different people are willing to do different things, clearly.
I know fully what you mean. I too have had severe depression. My mind and thoughts would go to the deepest depths imaginable and I was aware that something was wrong. I sought help and at the same time turned all my hunting rifles over to the RCMP for disposal. I was the last one to ever think it could happen to me. It is THAT insidious a disease. Fortunately I have great medical care and a supportive family that have stood by my side, regardless of where my thoughts of them went…it was that serious. Diagnosed at 40, realized having it since early teens and now 66, if it wasn’t for help and medication I would not be here and I am sure I would have been a high risk to the safety of loved ones. Now putting that in context of being young, promising career full of potential and prestige, only to have it stripped away, and doing everything you can to ride it out, this disease is far more powerful than anyone can imagine! Andreas unfortunately crossed that threshold and was not of sound mind. It’s easy to say snap out of it, he had ample opportunity to stop that horrible process, which he did. But his mental state was like a run away freight train with no brakes and no one at the controls. Nobody deserved to have this happen. There are too many ‘cracks’ in every system that are overlooked or ignored with denial that allows such events to happen.
@@hillarybillary21Psychopathy is a well defined medical condition with several criteria that must be met. You can't just diagnose that from afar. You can't just draw a converse conclusion the same way you can't say that everything that has an engine is a car.
As someone with ADHD here, I should not be allowed to fly a plane also due to impulsivity and mild anxiety. Also, my hopes are that you get better from your depression, Cherri Berri, and Merry Christmas/holidays and Happy New Year.
I guess that would depend on which plane you were on. Seeing a KLM 747 heading straight at you (if you sat on the right side) might be just as scary. I mean, thinking, "Those look like lights. Yep, they're lights, alright. And they're getting brighter. Uh oh, here it comes. Holy crap! That's a big plane. This will probably hurt a bit. I'm screwed." Many on Germanwings had earbuds on and never realized what hit them. If they even looked outside, they'd be thinking, "Nice mountains. Why is one of the pilots knocking on the door; maybe he should try the doorbell? I'd just text him; nobody ignores those. Those mountains almost look like you could reach out and touch them." Kaboom!!
Why do people feel the need to take others down with them? Why did he want to ruin everyone else's life? Agreed 100% though that aviation needs to reform it's views on mental health treatment. Treatment would have stopped this from happening, but their rules prevented treatment from happening instead.
Yeah, I'm still gonna blame the deaths of everyone else on board on Lubitz. He was a bastard, even if suicidal and even if the system wasn't great. I've been suicidal before and I wouldn't have dreampt of doing something that would've killed anyone else.
I hate how this is blamed on depression. There are millions of people, including me, with depression being able to function normally, with medication and with regular visits with their trusted doctors. People who are aware of their condition and can accommodate their lives accordingly and try their best to lead a good life with what little mental capacity they have. This mass murder was not caused by depression but by a severely disturbed individual lacking any sort of empathy for their fellow human beings. On another note though, the system making him wean off his drugs to keep his job just perpetuates the stereotype of individuals suffering from mental illness being unable to function normally. It is possible to have a normal life and achieve anything - through accessible healthcare and compassion. But yeah. This was not caused by a mental illness. This was one seriously spoiled apple. To me this is the same as any old notorious mass murderer. Yeah, one could argue they were sick, but that doesn’t explain countless of good people struggling from the same illness yet not killing a bunch of innocent people.
@@EmaMariaOndruskovabut you contradict your own point here. You say we can function normally with “medication and regular visits”. But the system is so f*cked up that medication and regular visits were simply not an option for him
Yeah, I think that situation might be one of those that the true colors of someone show through. Whenever someone is in a situation where they will suffer absolutely no consequences, and the outcome is what they want, you get to see their true colors.
20:42 one thing I'd like to add is that this issue is not something pilots are subtle about. They are to a degree...they don't want to lose their license, obviously.... .....but, once they do, they have ways to get around the issue and get flying again. *I'm not a pilot* so where am I getting this info? ....from an article in EAA magazine. EAA is the Experimental Aircraft Association. They do what it sounds like: fly aircraft rated as experimental. This doesn't mean they fly odd planes, like a test pilot. Instead, the article (which was written to inform people how they could get back to flying after failing their med check) suggests that pilots join the EAA, buy a kit plane, build it and fly that. The EAA chapter near you (very near to me... like "they will see my apartment if they are looking for a safe place to perform an emergency landing near the airport" kind of near, which is... something I think about) will help you build your plane and help you get it properly registered. Since 'you and some other untrained people' built the plane, it doesn't fall under the same laws and restrictions regular aircraft are held to. One rule that doesn't apply: pilots flying an experimental plane don't need to pass a medical exam. I suppose since 'an experimental plane' is already such 'a risk to the pilot flying it', that there is 'no need to worry about the pilot's health'....? *Again, I'm not a pilot* but.... this seems completely backwards to me. If it were, say... an experimental car, you would be banned from driving it on public roads in most cases. If you're in the military and are a test pilot, then you get to fly experimental aircraft....and that takes Chuck Yeager levels of skill. Thus, a medical exam should be required and the limitations could be much more strict than those for an FAA approved general aviation aircraft. If you happened to be lucky enough to be one of the pilots who got to fly one of the world's well known experimental aircraft: you'd be an astronaut piloting the space shuttle....which was an experimental craft. Personally, when I see that a plane is experimental (which can apply to everything from the shuttle, a kit plane, any diy developed planes .... even some warbirds), I would like *healthy, well trained, top of the line* pilots flying them. I don't want to see a grandpa who failed their medical due to a heart condition flying at all....let alone an experimental craft (and please, please: not a warbird!). I mean, who do you personally, think should be allowed to...say.... drive a top fuel dragster? A.) Only the best drivers B.) Any person who can show they are, not just knowledgeable about their dragster (including how to operate it safely, how to fix any issues that might come up during a run, and how to handle emergency situations), but are also able to show that they are mentally and physically capable of handling the vehicle without the risk of crashing and without a known medical condition that may or may not pose an issue while driving? C.) Anyone who wants to try. If they have known medical or mental health issues.... 🤷♂️.... if they are elderly, can't really see, have heart palpitations and the occasional stroke... that just makes the plane and the entire flight that much more experimental. Who knows what will happen until the experiments are finished? Yes... they will being flying over your home. why do you ask? *The correct answer is: anything but C. If you disagree or don't see why C is incorrect: please don't hesitate to **_not_** try to become a pilot.* Think about it: Imagine you learn that tomorrow, an experimental craft that will be flying all over your town... and you also learn that the pilot of this flight has many hours in this warbird (most gained during the second world War when he was a teenager) and is at 'that age' where you have similar discussions about "how those people that get older and have decreased cognitive function and/or have certain medical conditions that make driving a risk...should have their license revoked" Is that, honestly, the best person for the job? ....or even a safe person to be tasked with the job? If you go to your elderly parents' and tell them "we need to talk about how the physiological changes a person experiences at your age, their known medical conditions (similar to the one's you deal with) and their mental state (which, as we all know, changes with age).... may negatively affect their ability to drive. Sometimes, so much that it makes driving unsafe. .....I said WE NEED TO TALK.... NO, TALK, NOT WALK.... LOOK, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE ANYMORE! YOURE TOO OLD, ITS DANGEROUS AND YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE REVOKED! ....🤦♂️ NO, DAD... I didn't say 'You're not allowed at dive bars'... I didn't say 'you store mold, you're a stranger kid and neat to have Yoda lie and choked'! ....I said.... aw, F-it. Mom: tell dad he has to take the bus from now on and hide the car keys, please! What? No, not 'trick his boss Allen'....that doesn't make sense and dad is retired... omg, forget it and drive safe!" *Removes the distributor caps from their cars on the way out* ....then you recognize the danger. So, shouldn't the same apply to planes? They are faster, have the ability to gain altitude and fly over other people....the stakes are much higher. so for a group person to say or write about how to successfully "skirt the law meant to keep people safe" and actively encourage people to do thid....is (imho) a bad idea at best, immoral and potentially reckless on a level that could kill people at worst.
The issue is not quite "as prevalent as ever" and there are actually some mitigating procedures that have now been implemented. For example, it is no longer permissible for a single person to solely occupy the cockpit. For example, in this case where the captain exited, a member of the flight crew would need to be physically in the cockpit until the captain returned.
he procedure has been in use for some time but by today it has been largely superseded - per the EASA rules, the airlines may apply it at their discretion but are not required to. So did the Australian authorities.
@@firmbutton6485 Fair enough - and thanks for this information. If this rule is not mandated by each jurisdiction and/or certain airlines do not wish to mandate this rule then fair enough. I would go so far as to say shame on those airlines who do not want to mandate this rule after the GermanWings incident.
Sad to see many comments here showing a lack of understanding of the nuance involved in managing mental health in flying. With our greater understanding of mental health, it is now well-understood that almost everyone will face mental health challenges at some stage during their lives. It is the rule, not the exception. Thus it is entirely appropriate and necessary that the aviation medical system recognises mental health challenges, and the management of same, as normal. There are many levels and layers. Should someone with suicidal ideation operate an airliner? Probably not until they are treated. Can someone who is mildly depressed, under stress or appropriately managing another mental health challenge operate safely? Absolutely. It’s not simply a black and white case of mental health challenges = end of career. It’s far more nuanced than that and requires appropriately skilled mental health professionals to be involved in the selection, training and ongoing assessment of pilots. None of this excuses Lubitz’s actions. He is absolutely the perpetrator responsible for the deaths of 149 innocent people - but in some very specific ways he could be considered the 150th victim of this tragedy.
Was a bit confused because you said A321 throughout apart from once when you said it was an A320 in which it was! Anyway thanks for this; I’m sure it took a lot of work.
You could tell there was tension between the Captain and the FO when the Captain said, “you can go anytime…” Anyone who needed to be hospitalized at one point for mental depression should have never been in the cockpit. General depression is super common and no big deal IMO nor would medication, but to be that severely depressed at any point is a red flag. We can’t allow empathy and flexibility, normally good things, to extend to people with severe mental issue and the cockpit.
I think mental illness should be treated a lot like being sleepy is treated. If you are too sleepy to fly, you can refuse a flight and should do so and the same goes for feeling too depressed. I know pilots face backlash if they refuse to fly at all, even for good reasons, so there ought to be a law making it a criminal offense for the company to penalize pilots who report being unfit to fly before the flight. I say it should be a criminal law because civil law requires the person who is wronged to come up with all the resources to seek justice but, in criminal law, the district attorney investigates and prosecutes it on the government's dime. This makes it less likely that justice is only served to those who can afford it.
Unfortunately, and speaking as s Doctor, there is an illness called psychotic depression, and that can seriously impair the insight of the person with the illness, making self-reporting less likely. However, the system as it stands is far too punitive, and pilots themselves, along with their colleagues, should be able to report impairment without serious implications to their careers. The aim should be to maintain healthy crews, not throw out unhealthy staff, especially when most forms of depression can be very effectively treated. Just my 2 cents.
Maybe general depression which happens to like most of the population at some point, but not someone who was once so depressed they had to be hospitalized for their safety. That’s just insane. No pun intended.
As someone who was diagnosed with depression I feel I can add my 2 cents. Whilst I could never imagine myself acting as it seems the first officer did I do not believe anyone with any mental health issues whatsoever should be in charge of a commercial flight. Also, I feel relying on self reporting of such issues is not sensible IMO when hundreds of lives are at stake. I think the industry needs to make reporting of medical circumstances leading to disqualification easier to do, maybe guarenteeing another job in the company in a non-critical role rather than basically throwing the now ex-pilot to wolves as it seems now?
I've struggled too, and whilst I don't want to remove any of the blame from the pilot, I wish we were talking about this in a healtier way. It's a stressfull job, we all know that. Being responsible for hundreds of peoples lives can definately take a toll. It probably wasn't the only factor, but I guess it didn't help in this case either. The industry needs to rethink the procedures regarding mental illnesses. I completely understand pilots that don't want to report that they're going through some shit. They might have a lot of debt from flight school, and as you say, they're just thrown to the wolves right now. I don't have any issues with the airlines ability to easily disqualify a pilot from flying. But they need to assure the pilots, that they will still provide support and allow them to come back once the've recovered. It needs to be a safe environment where the pilots trust that they can speak about their problems, without it costing them their jobs leaving them in a lot of debt. Pilots must go through mental checks often, so that they can get the help they need in time. For everyones sake.
Fully agree with you on this! I too have lived with depression most my life and know just how insidious it is. There needs to be systems in place whether mandated by law, covered by insurance or wage sharing between employer and govt that will guarantee that a person does not lose their income due to certifiable illness. This I believe is the main cause why sufferers choose to sweep it under the rug.😢
"We know you have the brain makeup to have severe mental illness, so, after this first rime it happens, better not let it happen again, if it does, let us know so we can fire you for life, ok?" I also can't stand these people who decide they want to die but also decide that other people are coming with them.
I don't get the calls on why he did this. The question has to be in general, why do people going to kill themselves? Because if you are in such a state of mind, where you believe nothing will help you and not being anymore is better than struggling, you don't act rational anymore. You don't act, as the others are not the reason for your issues, because that's unimportant for you. As soon as you wanna kill yourself, why care about happy people anymore? Don't get me wrong, the FO never should have been allowed to fly in that condition. And for that we normally have therapy. But because mental issues can't be seen, it's important to be honest, and it's important that honesty doesn't fire back. I am sure there are many pilots with small or medium depression out there, yet fulfilling their job and feeling important is often the most important thing people in those states of life need. (except the job is the reason) So it's also important to give people a layer in which they can trust while struggling through therapy. And yes, the FO might have been a psychopath, but he was never given the opportunity to realise it and to overcome it. He was forced to keep his inner demons in him, until they took fully over, without only one plausible exit left.
It was both the fault of the rules and reporting system, but more his. Much more his, especially due to his decision to take every passenger down with him.
The similarities to MH370 are pretty scary. The powerless of passengers and crew to do anything if a mentally ill pilot decides to do something like this is worrying. Do you have any thoughts would could be done to mitigate this risk?
The "system" wasn't really part of the problem, per se. While everything always has room for improvement, reality doesn't care about what people want, and part of being an adult is understanding that sometimes what you want isn't possible, or isn't good for society in general. Pilots are only "incentivized" to hide psychological issues in the same way people are "incentivized" to commit crimes, in that sometimes it works, and can result in at least short-term benefit for the person in question. But, of course, often has bad consequences for the people around them. This isn't really something that can be fixed, as it's a feature of reality itself, since nature doesn't care about humans or human morals and desires. If anything, this is a good example of why many psychological issues should rightly disqualify people from certain occupations that could be severely impacted by them. While some people *are* indeed able to responsibly manage their conditions with therapy and/or medication, it's generally not possible for someone on the outside to tell if a person is actually managing it responsibly or not. When the consequences of improperly managed issues are this severe, it's not worth the risk in allowing it. If anything, there should probably be better screening methods implemented if possible, as the people who are responsibly managing their symptoms are the most likely to responsibly self-report issues, and the ones who's conidtions are the least well managed are the most likely to end up concealing them. (Individual situations vary, of course, but the general trends are still important.)
I've visited the 4U9525 memorial at Le Vernet this summer. To this day, it is still beyond me, how anyone can put protecting data before protecting human lives.
There are similarities with such absurdities as the Ariana Grande bomber in Manchester not being stopped and searched as the security guard did not want to appear rashally biased. So unimportant beaurocratic sensitivities result in mass tragedies.
Lubitz was an evil psychopath. Not content in simply ending his own life, he took the lives of 149 innocent people. His actions are rightly remembered as mass murder. That his parents tried to discredit the proven facts shows how Lubitz, himself, became utterly delusional.
Certainly fair to call it murder, but not to call him a psychopath. He was a mentally ill man who was incentivized to not get the help he needed. There’s no record of psychopathic behavior so we shouldn’t be diagnosing people from afar
Psychopath is a Mental Illness in itself and also as he felt no empathy for the people he was about to kill which defines a psychopath it fits his "diagnoses" @@alec_s18
I think the CVR should be made public for ALL Crashes on the main www (web) . But FYI this CVR is Available on the Dark Web AKA The Real Internet, Just like all CVR's and Police Recordings that have been banned are mostly Available on the Dark Web (like when 12 US cops murdered that disabled man in wheelchair who had a knife, banned by FBI from internet) (NO i will not share the link on Internet) .
if youve ever been on antidepressants and suicidal.... you cant be a commercial pilot... that sounds pretty prudent... we dont need crazy people in charge of airliners...
@@joohannaz yes it does, stigmatizing it more would have prevented him from getting the position in the first place... it's not like there weren't multiple warning signs... but they didn't stigmatize enough and just figured it would be ok....
Another great video. As someone suffering from severe depression, I don't think I should be allowed to fly a plane whenever I please via a license. I wouldn't do anything but temptation is there and different people are willing to do different things, clearly.
I know fully what you mean. I too have had severe depression. My mind and thoughts would go to the deepest depths imaginable and I was aware that something was wrong. I sought help and at the same time turned all my hunting rifles over to the RCMP for disposal. I was the last one to ever think it could happen to me. It is THAT insidious a disease.
Fortunately I have great medical care and a supportive family that have stood by my side, regardless of where my thoughts of them went…it was that serious.
Diagnosed at 40, realized having it since early teens and now 66, if it wasn’t for help and medication I would not be here and I am sure I would have been a high risk to the safety of loved ones.
Now putting that in context of being young, promising career full of potential and prestige, only to have it stripped away, and doing everything you can to ride it out, this disease is far more powerful than anyone can imagine!
Andreas unfortunately crossed that threshold and was not of sound mind.
It’s easy to say snap out of it, he had ample opportunity to stop that horrible process, which he did.
But his mental state was like a run away freight train with no brakes and no one at the controls.
Nobody deserved to have this happen. There are too many ‘cracks’ in every system that are overlooked or ignored with denial that allows such events to happen.
Absolutely. That's the line between us and someone like him. We don't want anyone else to get hurt. He wanted to bring others down with him.
He was a psychopath. Your inability to differentiate between the two is more worrying than your depression
@@hillarybillary21Psychopathy is a well defined medical condition with several criteria that must be met. You can't just diagnose that from afar. You can't just draw a converse conclusion the same way you can't say that everything that has an engine is a car.
As someone with ADHD here, I should not be allowed to fly a plane also due to impulsivity and mild anxiety. Also, my hopes are that you get better from your depression, Cherri Berri, and Merry Christmas/holidays and Happy New Year.
keep making this content man its so good, ridiculus it isnt more popular
The aviation horror story of all time. Less deaths than Tenerife, but much more terrifying.
I guess that would depend on which plane you were on. Seeing a KLM 747 heading straight at you (if you sat on the right side) might be just as scary. I mean, thinking, "Those look like lights. Yep, they're lights, alright. And they're getting brighter. Uh oh, here it comes. Holy crap! That's a big plane. This will probably hurt a bit. I'm screwed." Many on Germanwings had earbuds on and never realized what hit them. If they even looked outside, they'd be thinking, "Nice mountains. Why is one of the pilots knocking on the door; maybe he should try the doorbell? I'd just text him; nobody ignores those. Those mountains almost look like you could reach out and touch them." Kaboom!!
Why do people feel the need to take others down with them? Why did he want to ruin everyone else's life? Agreed 100% though that aviation needs to reform it's views on mental health treatment. Treatment would have stopped this from happening, but their rules prevented treatment from happening instead.
I don't think this is something that could happen again.
It's something that WILL happen again.
MH 370 !
Yeah, I'm still gonna blame the deaths of everyone else on board on Lubitz. He was a bastard, even if suicidal and even if the system wasn't great. I've been suicidal before and I wouldn't have dreampt of doing something that would've killed anyone else.
I hate how this is blamed on depression. There are millions of people, including me, with depression being able to function normally, with medication and with regular visits with their trusted doctors. People who are aware of their condition and can accommodate their lives accordingly and try their best to lead a good life with what little mental capacity they have. This mass murder was not caused by depression but by a severely disturbed individual lacking any sort of empathy for their fellow human beings.
On another note though, the system making him wean off his drugs to keep his job just perpetuates the stereotype of individuals suffering from mental illness being unable to function normally. It is possible to have a normal life and achieve anything - through accessible healthcare and compassion.
But yeah. This was not caused by a mental illness. This was one seriously spoiled apple. To me this is the same as any old notorious mass murderer. Yeah, one could argue they were sick, but that doesn’t explain countless of good people struggling from the same illness yet not killing a bunch of innocent people.
@@EmaMariaOndruskovabut you contradict your own point here. You say we can function normally with “medication and regular visits”. But the system is so f*cked up that medication and regular visits were simply not an option for him
He was homicidal. God I can’t take the word suicide being used. Disgusting.
You're bang on the money with this comment.
Yeah, I think that situation might be one of those that the true colors of someone show through. Whenever someone is in a situation where they will suffer absolutely no consequences, and the outcome is what they want, you get to see their true colors.
Great video!
Just one correction: at the start of the video, you stated the plane was an Airbus A321 when it was actually an A320. :)
20:42 one thing I'd like to add is that this issue is not something pilots are subtle about. They are to a degree...they don't want to lose their license, obviously....
.....but, once they do, they have ways to get around the issue and get flying again.
*I'm not a pilot* so where am I getting this info? ....from an article in EAA magazine. EAA is the Experimental Aircraft Association. They do what it sounds like: fly aircraft rated as experimental. This doesn't mean they fly odd planes, like a test pilot.
Instead, the article (which was written to inform people how they could get back to flying after failing their med check) suggests that pilots join the EAA, buy a kit plane, build it and fly that. The EAA chapter near you (very near to me... like "they will see my apartment if they are looking for a safe place to perform an emergency landing near the airport" kind of near, which is... something I think about) will help you build your plane and help you get it properly registered.
Since 'you and some other untrained people' built the plane, it doesn't fall under the same laws and restrictions regular aircraft are held to. One rule that doesn't apply: pilots flying an experimental plane don't need to pass a medical exam.
I suppose since 'an experimental plane' is already such 'a risk to the pilot flying it', that there is 'no need to worry about the pilot's health'....?
*Again, I'm not a pilot* but.... this seems completely backwards to me. If it were, say... an experimental car, you would be banned from driving it on public roads in most cases.
If you're in the military and are a test pilot, then you get to fly experimental aircraft....and that takes Chuck Yeager levels of skill. Thus, a medical exam should be required and the limitations could be much more strict than those for an FAA approved general aviation aircraft.
If you happened to be lucky enough to be one of the pilots who got to fly one of the world's well known experimental aircraft: you'd be an astronaut piloting the space shuttle....which was an experimental craft.
Personally, when I see that a plane is experimental (which can apply to everything from the shuttle, a kit plane, any diy developed planes .... even some warbirds), I would like *healthy, well trained, top of the line* pilots flying them.
I don't want to see a grandpa who failed their medical due to a heart condition flying at all....let alone an experimental craft (and please, please: not a warbird!).
I mean, who do you personally, think should be allowed to...say.... drive a top fuel dragster?
A.) Only the best drivers
B.) Any person who can show they are, not just knowledgeable about their dragster (including how to operate it safely, how to fix any issues that might come up during a run, and how to handle emergency situations), but are also able to show that they are mentally and physically capable of handling the vehicle without the risk of crashing and without a known medical condition that may or may not pose an issue while driving?
C.) Anyone who wants to try. If they have known medical or mental health issues.... 🤷♂️.... if they are elderly, can't really see, have heart palpitations and the occasional stroke... that just makes the plane and the entire flight that much more experimental. Who knows what will happen until the experiments are finished? Yes... they will being flying over your home. why do you ask?
*The correct answer is: anything but C. If you disagree or don't see why C is incorrect: please don't hesitate to **_not_** try to become a pilot.*
Think about it: Imagine you learn that tomorrow, an experimental craft that will be flying all over your town... and you also learn that the pilot of this flight has many hours in this warbird (most gained during the second world War when he was a teenager) and is at 'that age' where you have similar discussions about "how those people that get older and have decreased cognitive function and/or have certain medical conditions that make driving a risk...should have their license revoked"
Is that, honestly, the best person for the job? ....or even a safe person to be tasked with the job?
If you go to your elderly parents' and tell them "we need to talk about how the physiological changes a person experiences at your age, their known medical conditions (similar to the one's you deal with) and their mental state (which, as we all know, changes with age).... may negatively affect their ability to drive. Sometimes, so much that it makes driving unsafe. .....I said WE NEED TO TALK.... NO, TALK, NOT WALK.... LOOK, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE ANYMORE! YOURE TOO OLD, ITS DANGEROUS AND YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE REVOKED! ....🤦♂️ NO, DAD... I didn't say 'You're not allowed at dive bars'... I didn't say 'you store mold, you're a stranger kid and neat to have Yoda lie and choked'! ....I said.... aw, F-it. Mom: tell dad he has to take the bus from now on and hide the car keys, please! What? No, not 'trick his boss Allen'....that doesn't make sense and dad is retired... omg, forget it and drive safe!"
*Removes the distributor caps from their cars on the way out*
....then you recognize the danger.
So, shouldn't the same apply to planes? They are faster, have the ability to gain altitude and fly over other people....the stakes are much higher. so for a group person to say or write about how to successfully "skirt the law meant to keep people safe" and actively encourage people to do thid....is (imho) a bad idea at best, immoral and potentially reckless on a level that could kill people at worst.
The issue is not quite "as prevalent as ever" and there are actually some mitigating procedures that have now been implemented. For example, it is no longer permissible for a single person to solely occupy the cockpit. For example, in this case where the captain exited, a member of the flight crew would need to be physically in the cockpit until the captain returned.
he procedure has been in use for some time but by today it has been largely superseded - per the EASA rules, the airlines may apply it at their discretion but are not required to. So did the Australian authorities.
Add to that they've actually started repealing this rule.
I’ve been on a flight when a pilot left the cockpit and was not replaced by another person. Recently, in the EU
@@firmbutton6485 Fair enough - and thanks for this information. If this rule is not mandated by each jurisdiction and/or certain airlines do not wish to mandate this rule then fair enough. I would go so far as to say shame on those airlines who do not want to mandate this rule after the GermanWings incident.
I fly regularly domestically in Australia and also internationally, and I've seen no evidence of such a rule being observed over the past 5 years.
Sad to see many comments here showing a lack of understanding of the nuance involved in managing mental health in flying. With our greater understanding of mental health, it is now well-understood that almost everyone will face mental health challenges at some stage during their lives. It is the rule, not the exception. Thus it is entirely appropriate and necessary that the aviation medical system recognises mental health challenges, and the management of same, as normal. There are many levels and layers. Should someone with suicidal ideation operate an airliner? Probably not until they are treated. Can someone who is mildly depressed, under stress or appropriately managing another mental health challenge operate safely? Absolutely.
It’s not simply a black and white case of mental health challenges = end of career. It’s far more nuanced than that and requires appropriately skilled mental health professionals to be involved in the selection, training and ongoing assessment of pilots. None of this excuses Lubitz’s actions. He is absolutely the perpetrator responsible for the deaths of 149 innocent people - but in some very specific ways he could be considered the 150th victim of this tragedy.
Was a bit confused because you said A321 throughout apart from once when you said it was an A320 in which it was!
Anyway thanks for this; I’m sure it took a lot of work.
He knew what he was doing was wrong. He knew the fear everyone else would be feeling. I have less than no sympathy for him.
You could tell there was tension between the Captain and the FO when the Captain said, “you can go anytime…” Anyone who needed to be hospitalized at one point for mental depression should have never been in the cockpit. General depression is super common and no big deal IMO nor would medication, but to be that severely depressed at any point is a red flag. We can’t allow empathy and flexibility, normally good things, to extend to people with severe mental issue and the cockpit.
Three. Three times that the fucking bulletproof door has resulted in a mass casualty event.
Yep. If only we could travel back in time and prevent 2001.
@@thatguyalex2835 Just, in general? The whole year?
@@dracorex426You missed your calling as a standup comedian.
Correction, the plane is an Airbus A320, and not an A321
I think mental illness should be treated a lot like being sleepy is treated. If you are too sleepy to fly, you can refuse a flight and should do so and the same goes for feeling too depressed. I know pilots face backlash if they refuse to fly at all, even for good reasons, so there ought to be a law making it a criminal offense for the company to penalize pilots who report being unfit to fly before the flight. I say it should be a criminal law because civil law requires the person who is wronged to come up with all the resources to seek justice but, in criminal law, the district attorney investigates and prosecutes it on the government's dime. This makes it less likely that justice is only served to those who can afford it.
Unfortunately, and speaking as s Doctor, there is an illness called psychotic depression, and that can seriously impair the insight of the person with the illness, making self-reporting less likely. However, the system as it stands is far too punitive, and pilots themselves, along with their colleagues, should be able to report impairment without serious implications to their careers. The aim should be to maintain healthy crews, not throw out unhealthy staff, especially when most forms of depression can be very effectively treated. Just my 2 cents.
Maybe general depression which happens to like most of the population at some point, but not someone who was once so depressed they had to be hospitalized for their safety. That’s just insane. No pun intended.
As someone who was diagnosed with depression I feel I can add my 2 cents. Whilst I could never imagine myself acting as it seems the first officer did I do not believe anyone with any mental health issues whatsoever should be in charge of a commercial flight. Also, I feel relying on self reporting of such issues is not sensible IMO when hundreds of lives are at stake.
I think the industry needs to make reporting of medical circumstances leading to disqualification easier to do, maybe guarenteeing another job in the company in a non-critical role rather than basically throwing the now ex-pilot to wolves as it seems now?
I've struggled too, and whilst I don't want to remove any of the blame from the pilot, I wish we were talking about this in a healtier way. It's a stressfull job, we all know that. Being responsible for hundreds of peoples lives can definately take a toll. It probably wasn't the only factor, but I guess it didn't help in this case either.
The industry needs to rethink the procedures regarding mental illnesses. I completely understand pilots that don't want to report that they're going through some shit. They might have a lot of debt from flight school, and as you say, they're just thrown to the wolves right now.
I don't have any issues with the airlines ability to easily disqualify a pilot from flying. But they need to assure the pilots, that they will still provide support and allow them to come back once the've recovered. It needs to be a safe environment where the pilots trust that they can speak about their problems, without it costing them their jobs leaving them in a lot of debt.
Pilots must go through mental checks often, so that they can get the help they need in time. For everyones sake.
Fully agree with you on this! I too have lived with depression most my life and know just how insidious it is.
There needs to be systems in place whether mandated by law, covered by insurance or wage sharing between employer and govt that will guarantee that a person does not lose their income due to certifiable illness. This I believe is the main cause why sufferers choose to sweep it under the rug.😢
It was an A320, not an A321
the music .. almost takes over the narration. do you check the levels before uploading 3 greens?
+1. kinda hard to hear
Correction: The plane was an A320, not an A321.
"We know you have the brain makeup to have severe mental illness, so, after this first rime it happens, better not let it happen again, if it does, let us know so we can fire you for life, ok?"
I also can't stand these people who decide they want to die but also decide that other people are coming with them.
I don't get the calls on why he did this. The question has to be in general, why do people going to kill themselves? Because if you are in such a state of mind, where you believe nothing will help you and not being anymore is better than struggling, you don't act rational anymore. You don't act, as the others are not the reason for your issues, because that's unimportant for you. As soon as you wanna kill yourself, why care about happy people anymore?
Don't get me wrong, the FO never should have been allowed to fly in that condition. And for that we normally have therapy. But because mental issues can't be seen, it's important to be honest, and it's important that honesty doesn't fire back. I am sure there are many pilots with small or medium depression out there, yet fulfilling their job and feeling important is often the most important thing people in those states of life need. (except the job is the reason) So it's also important to give people a layer in which they can trust while struggling through therapy.
And yes, the FO might have been a psychopath, but he was never given the opportunity to realise it and to overcome it. He was forced to keep his inner demons in him, until they took fully over, without only one plausible exit left.
Wow, such videos recently between this channel and Green Dot. Pretty spooky reality.
It was both the fault of the rules and reporting system, but more his. Much more his, especially due to his decision to take every passenger down with him.
The similarities to MH370 are pretty scary. The powerless of passengers and crew to do anything if a mentally ill pilot decides to do something like this is worrying. Do you have any thoughts would could be done to mitigate this risk?
Pilots being able to seek help without the fear of losing their careers.
Pilots being able to seek help without the fear of losing their careers.
I have no issue with suicide but please just don’t take innocent people with you. 😞
The "system" wasn't really part of the problem, per se. While everything always has room for improvement, reality doesn't care about what people want, and part of being an adult is understanding that sometimes what you want isn't possible, or isn't good for society in general. Pilots are only "incentivized" to hide psychological issues in the same way people are "incentivized" to commit crimes, in that sometimes it works, and can result in at least short-term benefit for the person in question. But, of course, often has bad consequences for the people around them. This isn't really something that can be fixed, as it's a feature of reality itself, since nature doesn't care about humans or human morals and desires.
If anything, this is a good example of why many psychological issues should rightly disqualify people from certain occupations that could be severely impacted by them. While some people *are* indeed able to responsibly manage their conditions with therapy and/or medication, it's generally not possible for someone on the outside to tell if a person is actually managing it responsibly or not. When the consequences of improperly managed issues are this severe, it's not worth the risk in allowing it. If anything, there should probably be better screening methods implemented if possible, as the people who are responsibly managing their symptoms are the most likely to responsibly self-report issues, and the ones who's conidtions are the least well managed are the most likely to end up concealing them. (Individual situations vary, of course, but the general trends are still important.)
I've visited the 4U9525 memorial at Le Vernet this summer. To this day, it is still beyond me, how anyone can put protecting data before protecting human lives.
There are similarities with such absurdities as the Ariana Grande bomber in Manchester not being stopped and searched as the security guard did not want to appear rashally biased. So unimportant beaurocratic sensitivities result in mass tragedies.
poor guy. depression kills. condolences to the families. we need to improve mental healthcare somewhat
The health care is good, it's just German need refined their privacy policy
He killed 200 people, he is a murderer
Lubitz was an evil psychopath. Not content in simply ending his own life, he took the lives of 149 innocent people. His actions are rightly remembered as mass murder. That his parents tried to discredit the proven facts shows how Lubitz, himself, became utterly delusional.
Certainly fair to call it murder, but not to call him a psychopath. He was a mentally ill man who was incentivized to not get the help he needed. There’s no record of psychopathic behavior so we shouldn’t be diagnosing people from afar
Psychopath is a Mental Illness in itself and also as he felt no empathy for the people he was about to kill which defines a psychopath it fits his "diagnoses" @@alec_s18
@@alec_s18 - ah yeah, murdering 149 innocents isn’t at all psychopathic behaviour.
@@alec_s18I’m diagnosing you with retardation.
I think the CVR should be made public for ALL Crashes on the main www (web) .
But FYI this CVR is Available on the Dark Web AKA The Real Internet,
Just like all CVR's and Police Recordings that have been banned are mostly Available on the Dark Web
(like when 12 US cops murdered that disabled man in wheelchair who had a knife, banned by FBI from internet)
(NO i will not share the link on Internet) .
if youve ever been on antidepressants and suicidal.... you cant be a commercial pilot... that sounds pretty prudent... we dont need crazy people in charge of airliners...
and this mentality is why people do what he did. stigmatizing helps nobody
@@joohannaz yes it does, stigmatizing it more would have prevented him from getting the position in the first place... it's not like there weren't multiple warning signs... but they didn't stigmatize enough and just figured it would be ok....
@@joohannazthat's why people go crazy and crash planes?