Any of these surprise you? Hopefully some of them can actually help you improve your brewing and dialing in for a tasty coffee! And don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe if you haven't! Much appreciated.
Lance, OK I’ll hit the like button, but please tell me do you have a recommendation for Burrr replacement on my Eureka special 65 grinder that’s worth it, or should I save my cash????
Such an awesome video! I'm a chemical engineer and so much of what Dr Samo Smrke had to say resonated with my understanding of "fluidized beds" and general extraction principles. The fact that he has actual studies to backup the theories is really awesome! Lots of fun to watch and learn!
You talked about "fresh is best" in one of your last videos too and believe me you helped me a lot. I'm still kinda new to specialty coffee (about a year) and I was ALWAYS obsessed with roast date, to the point of missing out on good coffee because of that. After your thorough explanation I finally started to relax and I'm starting to obsess less and less over taste notes 😂
I've watched hundreds of hours of Espresso / Coffee U-Tube videos and I think I enjoyed this one more than most all of the others... Thanks for sharing this with us today Lance.
Lance, just want to say how much I appreciate it that you listed the six items, with timestamps, in the description. It's that kind of no BS approach that demonstrates you're the real deal.
Thanks, Lance and Dr Samo! Love the chemistry! All in all, this confirms that science is not absolute (that doesn't mean, all you conspiracy nuts, that science is not to be trusted, FFS!) because there are so many variables. On balance, work with what we know, make slight changes to our preference (try new things because that's the only way we can accept tastes different to those which we are used to!) and always remember the law of diminishing returns... Oh, and always respect the raw coffee producers - especially the women majority in the less wealthy producing countries (that is, most of the producers countries!) because they're most often the ones getting the worst deal out of this luxury industry - by purchasing traceable, fair-paid beans. Cheers! ❤️☕️😄👍
Thanks Lance & Samo. I think I gained an answer to a situation I have been seeing after I recently "Slayer modded" my BES920, and that is when using quite low pressures, the flow rate seems to be more overall than expected. It stands to reason, now, that the coffee particles aren't offering as much resistance if they aren't squashed closer together, which is what is happening at higher pressures.
Great video Lance. As your average consumer I can't say I notice or pay much attention to those myths, but it's very interesting to see how much work and research is done by yourself and other coffee experts/enthusiasts. Thanks for the hard work!
Lance, the consistency of your content quality is excellent. I clicked on this video in my feed, and it took me reading the comments halfway through the video to realize the video was only 1 hour from roast date, haha. Just trying to say your production quality has continuously improved, but it's not jarring to watch videos from years apart. I guess the only way to mark the passage of time is your facial hair, or lack thereof!
Thank you for the video! I'm always curious why too fresh is not good. I heard explanation on the CO2, but i don't think it affects pourover much. Now I know there are other unpleasant component which can be disappeared in a few days. Great learning!
Fascinating. Freshness, I used to have a coffee shop, and roaster. Fresh roasted, a few hours, was very 'fizzy' and tasted lighter, because of the CO2. But I have also found that less fresh coffee, 4-6 weeks there was a change in the coffee compounds. For most people, they preferred the coffee younger than this, though they were still happy enough with older coffee.
Due to elevation my water doesn't go above 94-95°C, I've always thought I was leaving some stuff on the table so it's interesting to see that generally a few degrees don't make that much of a difference.
Lance, can you do a video on pour over blooms? How do you dial in your bloom time and weight for different coffees? It seems like most people just do 3x the coffee dose for 45 seconds for all coffees.
Fresh isn't always best, I am curious how the packaging affects the de-gassing. Are the volatile compounds releasing if the coffee is stored in a vacuum canister? Is it better to store coffee in its original bag for a week or two before opening? Should I open the bag day one and let it casually de-gas and then air seal it? You have created a lot of questions to answer🧐
Yep, temperature is a useful tool to avoid extracting bitter compounds - once more for those in the back! I'd love to see newer studies on this that test temps like 80C vs 85C vs 90C and 95C (not just 87-90-93). Shouldn't only be grind size that's adjusted, because brew temp produces different tastes for quite a few people.
Just a couple pedantic nomenclature things about these words in American English 1. An easier word for non-homogeneous is heterogenous. 2. Methanethiol is a type of Mercaptan. Mercaptans are more widely known and associated with fart smell (as well as being added to natural gas).
Yes I know heterogenous. It has a bit different oomph to pushing the antithesis of homogeneity. As for methane, yes. I think many remember the fart jokes from middle school lol
In his book, A Question of Freshness, Paul Songer says something like, methanethiol is used as one of the indicators of freshness. Methanethiol is a pungent chemical on its own right, but surprisingly, in coffee, it serves as a flavour compound that actually hides undesirable odours. Does this mean that when methanethiol is extracted along with other chemicals during the brew, it no longer hides other undesirable odors but emit its own overpowering foul smell? I would love to know all the gives and takes of key compounds linked to temp, time, and water chemistry someday.
Brilliant thank you. Now I’m going to stop wondering if I should change my machine’s pressure down to 6 bar like so many people swear by and just enjoy my coffee 👌
I have the chance to roast beans frequently and yes pour different batches (roast dates) of same beans so yes the coffee varies way too much but so does your climate. Personally the only reason i buy coffee fresh is when im buying a bigger batch or when im gonna drink the most after a week or 2
It would be interesting if you made a video about methods for consistency. A hard thing about all of this is all of the variables. I always made coffee at home. I was buying coffee from a roaster in Portland called Thornton once and they asked if I wanted to try the espresso. That opened my eyes to the potential of coffee since I had never tried espresso before. After that I knew I must learn how to make it. Ritual brewing in SF gave me the best espresso shot I've had. It really tasted like blueberries it was amazing that that flavor profile could come out of coffee. Besides ritual, I've been disappointed by highly reputable third wave cafés. If I buy their coffee I can make it better at home with a cafelat robot. The baristas are really good at latte art, but the espresso is meh, just an afterthought, a vehicle for coffeesque milk For those of us who never really went to cafés could you make a guide for the café and what to look for? That ritual shot was inspirational but everything else has been disappointing. I don't have the knowledge to select a cafe where the coffee comes first
i feel the same way about many 'good' coffee shops..they talk the talk, they have the hipsters, the cool equipment...and i make better espresso with inferior tools. that being said. if you are ever in Bergamo, Italy go to Bugan Coffee lab. Never have I had a shot with more clearly defined flavors and balance.
Thanks Lance for this useful aspect as always. I really need you to do this vdo: when someone said use 92degC water for pour over, does it mean temperature of water or temperature in coffee bed? If using 92C water, in bed is about 85, but when I use 100c, it is about 92c. I got both brew from both temp but really love to know from u.
Brother, Also, (It has been my personal experience) on myth #2, that it depends on the process combined with the roast... for example, have tasted natural anaerobic or CM coffees that actually develop more stable tasting notes between 1 to 3 months, Delicate washed floral profiles that really pick up after 8 days and so on... keep up the good work 😇
On tamping pressure: can you tamp too lightly? I've always assumed you can, so my solution has always been to tamp pretty much as hard as I can, because that's a consistent value.
Hey Lance, as usual, I love the video. Could you maybe expand a bit on the topic of lower pressures? In your experience, are there some coffees which benefit from a pressure lower than 9 bar? Does lower pressure allow for a bit finer grinding and less channeling?
I am sure you both know UMPAUL. He is a Korean latte champion. He makes this tamper called Channeling Master, I suggest you reach out to him and purchase his tamper. With that tamper you will eliminate sour or bitter coffee, no more channeling and 100% extraction all the time at traditional ratios and yield. Time is no longer an issue.
So I should always hot start my grinder, as in, turn it on then put the beans in? I have been cold starting which is putting the beans in then turning it on....
Never really noticed a natural gas type smell (sulfur) with coffee but did notice some fresh coffee gives off a nice farty smell lol. One thing i noticed with a lower end grinder like a ceramic burr hand grinder or baratza vario which had the same profile lots of fines. I found i enjoyed super fresh espresso more, now with higher end more unimidal grind distribution grinders for light roasts they do seem to be more variable and inconsistent and settle down and usually give better results after more degassing. I had one light roast coffee that i kept trying to get good results with and it was always just ok like meh. One day i had an amazing shot and couldn't reproduce it. After about a month of rest i think it finally got better and more consistent. A couples times i noticed that.
Samo said that there is no difference in extraction at 6 and 9 bar. But that contradicts what you, Lance, said in your video about turbo shot (quoting English scientists). You said that there is a difference, and turbo shot gives better extraction as 9 is too compressing the coffee puck, causing the water to break through a lot of channels. So who's right?
So what I said in the turbo video was based on the paper that theorized 6 bar could lead to more consistency. Not to better taste. The point here was about objective extraction. All extraction being held equal, taste would be similar. But are 6 bar the theory is the shots would be more consistent.
I have a very hard time differentiating between bitter and acid coffee flavors. I think this is making very hard for me to dial anything in properly. I need to find a coffee shop that offers cupping/palette training sessions. One of the coffee shops in my town (Columbus, Ohio) used to offer cupping classes at their lab/roastery. I think they stopped offering those classes after COVID.
Thank you Dr. Smrke and Lance. This is great information. You mentioned the size differences from a cold start in grinding. With a single dose grinder, would it lessen the size variation if one would start the grinder and then add the beans so that the burrs are already at their normal speed? Just curious if this would help, but understand that there will always be variations in particle size due to the nature of being a natural material. Thanks again for such an informative video.
Exactly. By letting the grinder get up to speed, and only then adding the coffee beans (slowly, rather than all at once) you'll minimise the variations from speed thus increasing grind homogeneity. Once the grinder is running at speed, it's no longer considered a cold start, it's known as a hot start. It's easier to do on some grinders than others, but always worth doing if you want to chase optimisations.
"We should assume we have a fixed brew ratio". Why? I vary my ratio based upon many variables on every extraction. I am coming to the strong conclusion that videos should declare whether they are talking about commercial settings or a home setting. BTW I like this guy. He talks about a pull being both over extracted and under extracted at the same time because of channeling. You can get the same thing with a conical burr grinder that produces a wide variation in grind sizes.
He's only saying assume a fixed ratio for the sake of the maths from a scientific model to be able to give consistent examples. He is only changing one variable in his examples to make the points much clearer. He's absolutely not saying to use a fixed ratio/recipe when brewing. It's commonly notation used in scientific work, assume x, y and z, we'll be changing α and observe the result.
I totally got that. But this is not a scientific approach, it is amateurish tinkering. You get nothing, scientifically speaking, out of a complex multivariate problem by fixing one variable and then modifying other variables one at a time. It is alchemy and leads to false conclusions when using a limited data set. Anyways, I get that a modern restaurant or cafe takes this approach of fixing variables when preparing meals or coffee, out of a necessity for profit, and it reminded me of the wider point I made.@@theSnowpup
The temperature comments surprised a little. Not that boiling water can't burn, that was obvious. But that small temperature changes won't affect the extraction much. With all the PID controllers in espresso machines and the talk of machines that brew at 93 degrees struggling to avoid sour shots with light roasts I had thought that smaller changes in temperature were having more of an effect on extraction, at least with lighter roasts?
@@richardmiddleton7770 I know that is what is recommended but what I was mildly surprised by were the numbers thrown around here re temperatures needed to make a noticeable difference. Is 3 degrees, say 93 to 96 just enough to make a difference with lighter roasts because when loosely talking temps they were more in the 5 to 10 degree range from what I remember? I guess it's right in the middle of where they said small changes that don't matter (0.5-1 degree) and where we get a big difference so maybe it is just enough to make a real difference?
In 6) pressure are you talking about the peak pressure hit during the extraction? Because when I pull a "9 bar" shot it only reaches 9 bars for a short amount of time and then it quickly decreases from there on. Or are you pressure profiling and the pressure stays at 9 bar for the whole shot?
On typical machines, most people dial in finely enough to maintain roughly 9 Bar. Unless you have a rapidly eroding puck and an ever increasing output flow, you're likely sticking around 9 bar or so with maybe a slight dip. Doesn't take pressure profiling to do this. Most normal machines do.
I were a bit surprised 😅 i would se a overlay bitter coffee as a defective coffee, I've heard the theory of scolding coffee oils, I don't think people are afraid of burning as in combustion but burning as in tasting overly bitter, as in burned car-tires as some describe overly darkroasted coffee. So I wouldn't say the myth is busted just because the coffee dosnt combust, just taste overly extracted in a way that that taste unpleasant 😅 Other than that, great video!!!
I thought higher pressure due to more puck resistance (grinding finer) would increase likelyhood of channeling. However if you didn't get channeling then you can achieve a higher extraction with a finer grind size.
@@LanceHedrick on e61 with flow control I think the limiting factor is the grind size. But maybe Decent or other more advanced machines work differently with more legit pressure profiling rather than flow control.
Any of these surprise you? Hopefully some of them can actually help you improve your brewing and dialing in for a tasty coffee! And don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe if you haven't! Much appreciated.
Lance, OK I’ll hit the like button, but please tell me do you have a recommendation for Burrr replacement on my Eureka special 65 grinder that’s worth it, or should I save my cash????
@hifi2169 save your cash!
@@LanceHedrick
Thank You!
The Pressure as a static variable seems like fighting words. I am trying to reconcile that statement with all the flow/pressure profiling
Do one of these for Filter please!
Such an awesome video! I'm a chemical engineer and so much of what Dr Samo Smrke had to say resonated with my understanding of "fluidized beds" and general extraction principles. The fact that he has actual studies to backup the theories is really awesome! Lots of fun to watch and learn!
great video! Thanks to Dr. Smrke for taking the time to come on the show, and thanks to Lance for putting together the list of myths.
“Temperature and pressure don’t matter all that much!”
*Greg Scace sweats nervously*
He been real quiet since this dropped
Lol
True, but consistency gives a ~consistent product. And that's what the Scace II is really useful for.
Love this video and his style of dumbing things down for us! Happy to see people with the know-how sharing information with us
Samo is the best!
@@LanceHedrick we love him!
You talked about "fresh is best" in one of your last videos too and believe me you helped me a lot.
I'm still kinda new to specialty coffee (about a year) and I was ALWAYS obsessed with roast date, to the point of missing out on good coffee because of that.
After your thorough explanation I finally started to relax and I'm starting to obsess less and less over taste notes 😂
Definitely! So glad you enjoyed that video. Figured I'd bring it up again with an accredited scientist haha!
Hydraulic Press Channel needs to do some coffee tamping experiments
I've watched hundreds of hours of Espresso / Coffee U-Tube videos and I think I enjoyed this one more than most all of the others... Thanks for sharing this with us today Lance.
This is my favourite type of content, full of information! Thanks Lance and Dr Samo.
Myth number 7: Lance actually sleeps …
That one will never be busted sadly
@@LanceHedrick Dumb question, have you tried going caffeine free?
Haha of course. Did 4 months no caffeine at all. No luck.
@@LanceHedrick :(
@@LanceHedrickhave you tried drinking more caffeine 😂
Lance, just want to say how much I appreciate it that you listed the six items, with timestamps, in the description. It's that kind of no BS approach that demonstrates you're the real deal.
Thanks, Lance and Dr Samo! Love the chemistry! All in all, this confirms that science is not absolute (that doesn't mean, all you conspiracy nuts, that science is not to be trusted, FFS!) because there are so many variables. On balance, work with what we know, make slight changes to our preference (try new things because that's the only way we can accept tastes different to those which we are used to!) and always remember the law of diminishing returns... Oh, and always respect the raw coffee producers - especially the women majority in the less wealthy producing countries (that is, most of the producers countries!) because they're most often the ones getting the worst deal out of this luxury industry - by purchasing traceable, fair-paid beans.
Cheers! ❤️☕️😄👍
Thanks Lance & Samo. I think I gained an answer to a situation I have been seeing after I recently "Slayer modded" my BES920, and that is when using quite low pressures, the flow rate seems to be more overall than expected. It stands to reason, now, that the coffee particles aren't offering as much resistance if they aren't squashed closer together, which is what is happening at higher pressures.
Thank you Lance for the great video and for Dr Srmke spending many hours on helping better understanding on these points ❤ ☕️ 🙏
I just binged James Hoffmann. This is the first of your videos I've watched and I think I'm going to be binging your stuff now.
“Gassy shots.” I have to admit, I giggled at this, but only due to having the sense of humor of a 9 year old. 😁
Tbh same. But it's my duty not to laugh at gassy on camera. (Did duty make you giggle)
Wow. Not sure why it is so pleasant to hear what I already know but very enjoyable to hear that all in one place 🎉 love it
Great video Lance. As your average consumer I can't say I notice or pay much attention to those myths, but it's very interesting to see how much work and research is done by yourself and other coffee experts/enthusiasts. Thanks for the hard work!
great way to popularize science on the channel, thanks!👍
Lance, the consistency of your content quality is excellent. I clicked on this video in my feed, and it took me reading the comments halfway through the video to realize the video was only 1 hour from roast date, haha. Just trying to say your production quality has continuously improved, but it's not jarring to watch videos from years apart. I guess the only way to mark the passage of time is your facial hair, or lack thereof!
Thank you for the video! I'm always curious why too fresh is not good. I heard explanation on the CO2, but i don't think it affects pourover much. Now I know there are other unpleasant component which can be disappeared in a few days. Great learning!
very interesting, thanks. This is the kind of content that's not found elsewhere, appreciated Lance!
Loved this. Dr Smrke knowledge on this is fascinating. What a guy.
Really good job on both sides of the conversation. I learned a lot. Thanks!
Dr Samo Smrke scored a gaming winning goal with this excellent collaborative video. I truly learned a great deal. Thanks. Cheers.
Fascinating. Freshness, I used to have a coffee shop, and roaster. Fresh roasted, a few hours, was very 'fizzy' and tasted lighter, because of the CO2. But I have also found that less fresh coffee, 4-6 weeks there was a change in the coffee compounds. For most people, they preferred the coffee younger than this, though they were still happy enough with older coffee.
Would love more Q and A vids!
very cool to hear this point of view. thanks Doc and Lance
Due to elevation my water doesn't go above 94-95°C, I've always thought I was leaving some stuff on the table so it's interesting to see that generally a few degrees don't make that much of a difference.
Such a great video. Loved the insight of Dr. Smrke! Now I feel a little smarter again :)
Loved this fantastic video, so clear and informative, directly applicable!
Lance, can you do a video on pour over blooms? How do you dial in your bloom time and weight for different coffees? It seems like most people just do 3x the coffee dose for 45 seconds for all coffees.
Fresh isn't always best, I am curious how the packaging affects the de-gassing. Are the volatile compounds releasing if the coffee is stored in a vacuum canister? Is it better to store coffee in its original bag for a week or two before opening? Should I open the bag day one and let it casually de-gas and then air seal it? You have created a lot of questions to answer🧐
Thank you so much for making these videos.
it was so cool and I've found the answers of some of my questions in this video. 🙏🏻❤
Really interesting video! Thank you Lance and Dr Smrke!
Please do more with Dr. Smrke!!
great explanations, thanks Lance and DR. Samo
Enlightening! Great piece of information! Appreciated. Thanks a lot.
This was an amazing video. Thank you Lance!!
Yep, temperature is a useful tool to avoid extracting bitter compounds - once more for those in the back! I'd love to see newer studies on this that test temps like 80C vs 85C vs 90C and 95C (not just 87-90-93). Shouldn't only be grind size that's adjusted, because brew temp produces different tastes for quite a few people.
in my experience there's definitely a difference in extraction due to brewing temperature and i believe that's well established?!
But you do want some of those bitter compounds to balance out the acidity.
Great video my friend! I have learned much in this process!
Just a couple pedantic nomenclature things about these words in American English
1. An easier word for non-homogeneous is heterogenous.
2. Methanethiol is a type of Mercaptan. Mercaptans are more widely known and associated with fart smell (as well as being added to natural gas).
Yes I know heterogenous. It has a bit different oomph to pushing the antithesis of homogeneity.
As for methane, yes. I think many remember the fart jokes from middle school lol
And it wasn't mentioned, but methanethiol (methyl mercaptan) contains sulphur, which is what gives it the awful odour (and taste.)
More from this dialled in duo! Thank you
Thanks for putting this together!
Thank you Lance.
In his book, A Question of Freshness, Paul Songer says something like, methanethiol is used as one of the indicators of freshness. Methanethiol is a pungent chemical on its own right, but surprisingly, in coffee, it serves as a flavour compound that actually hides undesirable odours.
Does this mean that when methanethiol is extracted along with other chemicals during the brew, it no longer hides other undesirable odors but emit its own overpowering foul smell? I would love to know all the gives and takes of key compounds linked to temp, time, and water chemistry someday.
Brilliant thank you. Now I’m going to stop wondering if I should change my machine’s pressure down to 6 bar like so many people swear by and just enjoy my coffee 👌
I have the chance to roast beans frequently and yes pour different batches (roast dates) of same beans so yes the coffee varies way too much but so does your climate. Personally the only reason i buy coffee fresh is when im buying a bigger batch or when im gonna drink the most after a week or 2
Lots of great objective, and illuminating information. Thank-you...
Thank you for the support!
excellent video! would love to see future videos like with maybe with more visual aid.
It would be interesting if you made a video about methods for consistency. A hard thing about all of this is all of the variables.
I always made coffee at home. I was buying coffee from a roaster in Portland called Thornton once and they asked if I wanted to try the espresso. That opened my eyes to the potential of coffee since I had never tried espresso before. After that I knew I must learn how to make it. Ritual brewing in SF gave me the best espresso shot I've had. It really tasted like blueberries it was amazing that that flavor profile could come out of coffee. Besides ritual, I've been disappointed by highly reputable third wave cafés. If I buy their coffee I can make it better at home with a cafelat robot. The baristas are really good at latte art, but the espresso is meh, just an afterthought, a vehicle for coffeesque milk
For those of us who never really went to cafés could you make a guide for the café and what to look for? That ritual shot was inspirational but everything else has been disappointing. I don't have the knowledge to select a cafe where the coffee comes first
i feel the same way about many 'good' coffee shops..they talk the talk, they have the hipsters, the cool equipment...and i make better espresso with inferior tools.
that being said. if you are ever in Bergamo, Italy go to Bugan Coffee lab. Never have I had a shot with more clearly defined flavors and balance.
Very interesting information.
Another great video Lance!
Great video! Thanks guys! 🙂
Very nice video👍🏼 Thank you so much😊🧡
I am so glad to find out I m NOT MAD!
Thanks Lance for this useful aspect as always.
I really need you to do this vdo: when someone said use 92degC water for pour over, does it mean temperature of water or temperature in coffee bed?
If using 92C water, in bed is about 85, but when I use 100c, it is about 92c. I got both brew from both temp but really love to know from u.
Lance it would be really cool to see you cover traditional coffee brewing methods, arabian qahua coffee or ethiopian buna.
very interesting Lance, thank you.
Brother, Also, (It has been my personal experience) on myth #2, that it depends on the process combined with the roast... for example, have tasted natural anaerobic or CM coffees that actually develop more stable tasting notes between 1 to 3 months, Delicate washed floral profiles that really pick up after 8 days and so on... keep up the good work 😇
The 58mm basket is the most common. Is it also the best size for a single espresso with a ratio of 1:2?
Killing it Lance - great vid
Hi, Lance! Thanks for the content
thank you for supporting it!
I repeated for that laugh at 1:33 way too many times lol
Love it Lance!
If we talk about the pressure, is it puck or pump pressure?
Puck
The pressure the extraction experiences
On tamping pressure: can you tamp too lightly? I've always assumed you can, so my solution has always been to tamp pretty much as hard as I can, because that's a consistent value.
Hey Lance, as usual, I love the video.
Could you maybe expand a bit on the topic of lower pressures? In your experience, are there some coffees which benefit from a pressure lower than 9 bar?
Does lower pressure allow for a bit finer grinding and less channeling?
Awesome geekin out on coffe!!!!
This was interesting. Good video.
Lance! Can you please talk about matched solubility in roasting/brewing blends?
Lance, when you guys were talking about RPM and said that for some coffees it’s measurable- please do share for which ones and what the effect is!
Very interesting video ! I definitely learned something (myth number 4). I was wondering, what do you use as a kettle?
❤❤❤❤moooooore of These!!!
Myth Busters. Coffee Edition.
“Watch out coffee myths, cuz your gonna get BUSTED!”
I am sure you both know UMPAUL. He is a Korean latte champion. He makes this tamper called Channeling Master, I suggest you reach out to him and purchase his tamper.
With that tamper you will eliminate sour or bitter coffee, no more channeling and 100% extraction all the time at traditional ratios and yield. Time is no longer an issue.
I know um and that tamper
@@LanceHedrick Well then get it and try it. It will change the way you talk about coffee.
So I should always hot start my grinder, as in, turn it on then put the beans in? I have been cold starting which is putting the beans in then turning it on....
Never really noticed a natural gas type smell (sulfur) with coffee but did notice some fresh coffee gives off a nice farty smell lol.
One thing i noticed with a lower end grinder like a ceramic burr hand grinder or baratza vario which had the same profile lots of fines. I found i enjoyed super fresh espresso more, now with higher end more unimidal grind distribution grinders for light roasts they do seem to be more variable and inconsistent and settle down and usually give better results after more degassing. I had one light roast coffee that i kept trying to get good results with and it was always just ok like meh. One day i had an amazing shot and couldn't reproduce it. After about a month of rest i think it finally got better and more consistent. A couples times i noticed that.
Samo said that there is no difference in extraction at 6 and 9 bar. But that contradicts what you, Lance, said in your video about turbo shot (quoting English scientists). You said that there is a difference, and turbo shot gives better extraction as 9 is too compressing the coffee puck, causing the water to break through a lot of channels. So who's right?
So what I said in the turbo video was based on the paper that theorized 6 bar could lead to more consistency. Not to better taste. The point here was about objective extraction. All extraction being held equal, taste would be similar. But are 6 bar the theory is the shots would be more consistent.
Good question!
Q. Will the pump in coffee machine have longer service life if set OPV to 6-7 bar?
Nice!
I have a very hard time differentiating between bitter and acid coffee flavors. I think this is making very hard for me to dial anything in properly.
I need to find a coffee shop that offers cupping/palette training sessions. One of the coffee shops in my town (Columbus, Ohio) used to offer cupping classes at their lab/roastery. I think they stopped offering those classes after COVID.
Thank you Dr. Smrke and Lance. This is great information. You mentioned the size differences from a cold start in grinding. With a single dose grinder, would it lessen the size variation if one would start the grinder and then add the beans so that the burrs are already at their normal speed? Just curious if this would help, but understand that there will always be variations in particle size due to the nature of being a natural material. Thanks again for such an informative video.
Exactly. By letting the grinder get up to speed, and only then adding the coffee beans (slowly, rather than all at once) you'll minimise the variations from speed thus increasing grind homogeneity.
Once the grinder is running at speed, it's no longer considered a cold start, it's known as a hot start.
It's easier to do on some grinders than others, but always worth doing if you want to chase optimisations.
Me *sipping beans from 2019 that I just ground and ran through a keurig*
"Cool video"
Awesome video ❤👍
1:01 = this is why I love Lance 😂
I was in that damn room 🎉 (not making a collab)
In the room where it happened.
Really enjoyed this interesting video, food for thought.
What do you think James??
Dr. Samo Smrke was great! Does he have a channel or outlet where he dumps all his info?
I love these scientific tests! SCIENCE FTW!!!
"We should assume we have a fixed brew ratio". Why? I vary my ratio based upon many variables on every extraction. I am coming to the strong conclusion that videos should declare whether they are talking about commercial settings or a home setting. BTW I like this guy. He talks about a pull being both over extracted and under extracted at the same time because of channeling. You can get the same thing with a conical burr grinder that produces a wide variation in grind sizes.
He's only saying assume a fixed ratio for the sake of the maths from a scientific model to be able to give consistent examples. He is only changing one variable in his examples to make the points much clearer. He's absolutely not saying to use a fixed ratio/recipe when brewing.
It's commonly notation used in scientific work, assume x, y and z, we'll be changing α and observe the result.
I totally got that. But this is not a scientific approach, it is amateurish tinkering. You get nothing, scientifically speaking, out of a complex multivariate problem by fixing one variable and then modifying other variables one at a time. It is alchemy and leads to false conclusions when using a limited data set. Anyways, I get that a modern restaurant or cafe takes this approach of fixing variables when preparing meals or coffee, out of a necessity for profit, and it reminded me of the wider point I made.@@theSnowpup
The temperature comments surprised a little. Not that boiling water can't burn, that was obvious. But that small temperature changes won't affect the extraction much. With all the PID controllers in espresso machines and the talk of machines that brew at 93 degrees struggling to avoid sour shots with light roasts I had thought that smaller changes in temperature were having more of an effect on extraction, at least with lighter roasts?
With lighter roasts I always brew at higher temperatures and grind finer.
@@richardmiddleton7770 I know that is what is recommended but what I was mildly surprised by were the numbers thrown around here re temperatures needed to make a noticeable difference. Is 3 degrees, say 93 to 96 just enough to make a difference with lighter roasts because when loosely talking temps they were more in the 5 to 10 degree range from what I remember? I guess it's right in the middle of where they said small changes that don't matter (0.5-1 degree) and where we get a big difference so maybe it is just enough to make a real difference?
In 6) pressure are you talking about the peak pressure hit during the extraction? Because when I pull a "9 bar" shot it only reaches 9 bars for a short amount of time and then it quickly decreases from there on. Or are you pressure profiling and the pressure stays at 9 bar for the whole shot?
On typical machines, most people dial in finely enough to maintain roughly 9 Bar. Unless you have a rapidly eroding puck and an ever increasing output flow, you're likely sticking around 9 bar or so with maybe a slight dip. Doesn't take pressure profiling to do this. Most normal machines do.
Would you suggest getting the grinder at full speed before pouring the single dose beans into the grinder? Therefore creating a more uniform grind.
That's what many cafes do, us included
Exactly. Letting the grinder get up to speed and slowly feeding the beans will reduce variability in your grind.
I’ve seen more and more pseudoscience creep in to coffee talk so this is refreshing
I were a bit surprised 😅 i would se a overlay bitter coffee as a defective coffee, I've heard the theory of scolding coffee oils, I don't think people are afraid of burning as in combustion but burning as in tasting overly bitter, as in burned car-tires as some describe overly darkroasted coffee. So I wouldn't say the myth is busted just because the coffee dosnt combust, just taste overly extracted in a way that that taste unpleasant 😅
Other than that, great video!!!
Oh no. You're just removed from novices in coffee. Novices very much believe it will actually burn the coffee like when you burn a steak.
@LanceHedrick wauw 😅 people needs to see more "the last airbender" then 😂 clearly water can't burn, only scold😅
You roasted those myths!
"Unreal." - Thomas(2023, after watching this legendary video.)
If this is a shoresy reference, we are BFF and you get a stick. Because they're unbelievable
I thought higher pressure due to more puck resistance (grinding finer) would increase likelyhood of channeling. However if you didn't get channeling then you can achieve a higher extraction with a finer grind size.
Higher pressure is due to BOTH resistance and flow. You could do same resistance and have higher input flow.
@@LanceHedrick on e61 with flow control I think the limiting factor is the grind size. But maybe Decent or other more advanced machines work differently with more legit pressure profiling rather than flow control.
@@BensCoffeeRants well sure but that's an e61 with constant flow. Not just a pump with an OPV, which is MO.
@@LanceHedrick what's "MO" mean?
Modus operandi
So if I’ve got this right, as long as you make a coffee that you enjoy the minutiae really doesn’t matter.