Inspired by SwingRipper's comment about classes that make good bottoms... What classes do you think would be good tops and bottoms in the Centaur Stack? Or who would be good being part of the Double Meat? ADDITIONS/ERRATA: -It's possible to have FIVE in the stack, if you accept a toy centaur: the Poppet ancestry can take the Level 1 Quadruped feat, to be a toy horse/centaur and be the Small creature in the stack. (A triple decker, if not quite triple meat!) -I'm disappointed that I didn't think of calling the Rogue's flanking feat the Gang Bang feat. -I deny the allegations that my videos are "dry." I think this video's quite moist! And the next one's downright WET. Join the Patreon for early access! =D -The general feat Adopted Ancestry (Elf) can get the Nimble Elf feat, which by RAW should stack with the centaur heritage's Speed increase! This, together with GREATER Alacritous Horseshoes, brings your base Speed up to 55 feet! -Since the Fighter has the Druid archetype, they can cast Fleet Step for a 30-foot status bonus to Speed! -A GM can allow horseshoes, which are "companion" items, on a centaur PC. From the GM Core pg. 272 on Companion Items: "These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally, these are the only items a companion can use." "Normally" means that the RAW allows a GM to decide otherwise. And it's hard to argue that horseshoes don't work on a Centaur! -If you think a Trip automatically makes them all prone, then I counter that a Stand action will bring them up again. Touché! -Inner Radiance Torrent is not an Arcane spell, so not available to a magus. In my defense I wasn't thinking of this stack in particular at that moment. And there are many 3-action (and some 6-action) spells in the arcane spell list!
I feel like a barbarian might make a really good bottom cause they can get reactive strike and extra mobility through feats, if you're giant instinct you can enlarge yourself without the assistance of your other party members and best of all if you want some alone time you can use that one level 8 feat and throw all the people riding you. And all 3 of them would get a reaction to attack an adjacent enemy
Drawbacks: any spell with a burst Telekinetic rend hits your whole stack for example, despite having a relatively small AoE That said, I'll agree that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks here
I've had this up on Patreon since before the recent allegations lol. Yeah this one's pretty moist. The next one is downright WET! Patreon supporters get to watch it early! =D
Huh sounds like you have a lot of experience in riding! I bet the bottom champion could athletic rush and grab enemies to allow the top to have another target for their opportune backstab I bet Monks would be great powerful bottoms as they don't need bulky clothes and are naturally fast and efficient so they can move to satisfy the needs of their riders
Good idea. Those Focus Spells can benefit the whole party. Ki Rush, allowing 2 strides for a single action, and the monk can even Florry of Blows after that. The monk is basically doing 4 actions but paying only 2.
My one of those was "the bottom is doing all the work anyway". Luckily my tea was still brewing and I hadn't begun drinking it yet, so ROnald doesn't owe me a new keyboard. THIS TIME.
I believe the only con in this build is that when mounted, you take -2 to reflex. AoE is the major enemy of this party since everyone is together, but this is not the end of the world, you can still heal after the damage.
This right here is true optimization. None of that white room DPR nonsense, you just stack your entire party in one spot and add a heaping dose of innuendo to keep things running, and unlock the infinite potential. Oh and also just don't think about what happens if any area damage is thrown your way. It's probably fine.
Don't forget the Sylph versatile heritage as an option for extra move speed (and flight later!). Best yet, Adopted Ancestry (Elf) for Nimble Elf can get you that 5' speed *and* stacks with Fleetwind heritage. 30 base + 5 (fleetwind) +5 (nimble elf) +5 (fleet) = 45' speed by level 7, with all bonus types still available. if the bottom is a monk, at 7th level they have a 60' speed without any items or buffs. Flurry of Blows helps compensate for only having two actions as well. There *is* one downside - they centaur stack party is always clumped in AoEs. You are right though - who cares! (Correction: The Nimble Elf, Nimble Hooves, and Swift feats state that they do not stack with other ancestry feats that increase speed. However, they do not mention heritages, so will stack with Fleetwind.)
BUILD VIDEOS?! OH HELL YEAH! HAPPY PRIDE INDEED! Edit- This video was so much fun! I was going crazy in my chair watching the quad-taur destroy everything lol! Def need more videos like this!
Don't forget that carrying capacity also incrases when you're large (they reference the increased bulk of large equipment in Howl of the Wild which is in the same table that mentions double carrying capacity for large and more for huge) so the bulk is probably not an issue without Hefty Hauler anyway.
Oh yeah I had some very ugly math work but didn't want to bog down the video with it It did get dicey however because the Bottom carries everyone's weight on top PLUS their equipment, AND their own equipment is 4x as heavy. Hence the caveats
8:48 OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR! I think Accommodating Mount only applies the rider immediately above the mount, not the top rider. For example, I'd assume that if we were to label the centaurs 1 through 4 (with 1 being the smallest), then if 4 has AM, that would only effect 3. 3 would need to have AM to effect 2, and 2 would need it to effect 1. This is because 1 isn't riding 3, nor are 1 and 2 riding 4; but rather 1 is riding 2, which is riding 3, which is riding 4. However, functionally, I believe you are correct. Only 1 gets to reap the benefits from 2, as 2 is losing the action that it would get from 3 by virtue of being ridden, while 3 is losing the action from 4 by virtue of being ridden. I rest my case.
For maximum mobility/speed, the bottom centaur should be a monk. :) The biggest drawback is that the entire party can always be hit with even a small AoE, such as a cone.
The main drawback is you need to spend actions at the start of combat to enlarge/mount/shrink which kind of gives up half a round lmao. It's genuinely solid starting with round 2 though and that's hilarious.
The top player can be a non-centaur tiny size (even if it feels wrong in the polycule) So that would save 1 spell cast with a tiny animal instead (...a tiny Awakened Miniature Horse maybe?)
This is the PF2e content I needed in my life. My friend and I were thinking a mounted Kineticist on a centaur Monk! Monk for the extra speed and great action econ from Flurry of Blows.
Hecatonchire Centaur stacks. Don't forget l4 enlarge let's you get a huge centaur for a little bit. And that Gang Up whirlwind attack (avalanche strike) is possible with a Mauler Archetype Rogue, all of which can qualify for sneak affack
Who would win? The centower vs. one (1) successful trip? As always, the hero of our story is wrestling! I do actually want to know what happens to the top of the tower if you trip the middle, and if there were any rules in HotW about PCs not needing the mount special ability to use speeds other than land speed. That said, the power of the centower is that it's awesome - not that there are no possible drawbacks.
This reminds me so much of Vehicle Crew rules from Only War where the entire party can drive a tank together. Most people dislike the idea and just play regular infantry but I personally love the idea of a mobile fortress with internal rooms people customise scince a Baneblade has a lot of spare rooms where people just sit to pilot the 11 guns. One weakness I see is that the centaur stack is a little bit vulnerable to AoEs without a 2nd dedicated heal mage.
Regarding the Horseshoes i would argue that the companion item text: "These items have the companion trait, meaning *they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures*. Normally, these are *the only items a companion* can use." Refers to them only being usable by companions and the "Normally" only allows companions different items. However since the Horseshoes are just the Companion Version of "Boots of Bounding" and as far as i can tell nothing stops centaurs from wearing those (by tying them to your hooves maybe) the reflavoring of Boots as Horseshoes is perfectly fine. An excellent build and one i hope my players will never send against me!
Actually I just started a playthrough on Baldurs Gate 3 where all the characters are stacked on the paladin. She's basically a tank while the others are turrets firing off spells and shields. It's very fun
Just don't let the grounded centaur get tripped and I think you'll be okay lol I'd like to make the bottom centaur a Monk. They don't need armor or weapons so that allies can carry more equipment, they get large bonuses to move speed, they can crank up their reflex saves high, and flurry of blows is pretty great when you only have one non-movement action per turn.
Hi Ronald, really enjoyed the video! It's funny and informative. Also, your Foundry setup looks awesome! Is there a place where you've listed what modules you use?
It looks like by the wording of it you cannot invest in the alacritous horseshoes because the wording states an ordinary horse or a quadrupedal animal companion. It even has companion as a trait.
From the GM Core pg. 272 on Companion Items. The last sentence is relevant: "You might want to acquire items that benefit a creature that assists you, such as an animal companion, familiar, or bonded animal. These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally, these are the only items a companion can use." Normally means that the RAW allows a GM to decide otherwise. And it's hard to argue that horseshoes don't work on a Centaur! By the way there's another magic item that has the exact same level and price. So whatever GM interpretation you have, PF2 has you covered. I couldn't resist an item called Horseshoes.
I'm about to play a merfolk champion in AV. I'm starting with Nimble Elf from half elf, and I think that 200% movement speed increase makes this a Very Good Build because it has a Big Numerical Increase
Centaur stacks are certainly sensationally sensual. But I personally preferred the barbarian tank build. I can't put my finger on why, but part of me yearns to be inside a 18 ft. tall man/woman.🤔
I think the only drawback would be if an enemy tripped those that are mounted on one another. As it stands and using all the Mounted Combat special rules; The only [Move] action you can take is 'Mount/Dismount' while mounted, meaning you cannot effectively 'Stand' as 'Stand' is a [Move] action. So, if an enemy trips up the tower starting at the top, everyone is -2 to attack rolls and Off-guard until they dismount, falling the distance they were up, then having to spend an action to stand. All that being said, it's a silly idea and enjoyable. x3
I love that reading this strictly only the bottom Centaur needs to stand in order to right everyone again EDIT: I misread the original intent, but I still love the idea!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I may have worded it wrong or vaguely in my original reply and I apologize for that; I meant taking a Trip action (or otherwise cause Prone condition) against every Mounting Centaur. Example if you take the Trip action (Or Telekinetic Maneuver) to trip Top, then the Meats and then (Or ignore) Bottom. I don't think Mounted makes you immune to Trip/Prone but it does act with the Mounted Rule regarding where the only [Move] action you can take is Mount(To Dismount) and therefore cannot Stand from Prone since Stand is a Move Action. Sure, it's a lot of actions but I think the Quad Mounting Centaur would have trouble RAW for Mounted combat in this one, very niche example. I agree that tripping 'Bottom' doesn't make them all prone; It'd only make 'Bottom' prone, not 'Lucky' and 'Pierre' or 'Top.' At least, that's my understanding of it?
@@Chazori Hmm, the fact that you can't Stand while riding seems to be a hole in the rules. It implies that you cannot be prone if you're riding a mount, because it makes no sense to not be able to right yourself up. The only other fair reading is that you CAN be knocked prone but you may Stand to right yourself. It is possible to be partially out of your saddle I'm guessing. Whether or not it's RAW I'd allow Prone and Stand for a rider.
The prone condition means you are on the ground. Which means you were dismounted as part of the trip. So you can stand up. The movement restriction applies to the person who is riding, not to the person carrying riders. Your riders can stay on you (??!!?) while you stand back up and get on your mount again.
What in the name of Ron Jeremy. Lol. Talk about taking your enemies to the Donkey Show. 😂 Kidding aside, if that huge centaur on the bottom was a Kineticist (Fire/Earth Dual-Gate), you could pull some nasty shenanigans thanks to Safe Elements at Level 4. At level 8, you could then have that Centaur Kineticist, while enlarged, use the Solar Detonation feat to blow your load all over the place, while keeping your friends safe. And that doesn't even take into consideration their Gate Junctions. Or Aura Shaping starting at level 10. Yikes and Lolz.
I list my modules on my discord. as for the macros I've used I've built those up over years There is a Foundry Community Macros module I believe But the Discord is very friendly and will answer your questions!
Only one I can think of makes your entire stack suspect to AoEs far more often so maybe you just need to account for that with counterspells and other shit but this makes it incredibly easy to build for.
Objections! - Alacritious Horseshoes states "ordinary horse or quadrapedal animal companion". A Centaur is neither of those things. I'd allow it as a GM, but Rules As Written it doesn't work. - Inner Radiance Torrent is a Divine/Occult spell. The Magus cannot cast it as they use the Arcane spell list. Without a Divine or Occult spellcasting dedication, this doesn't work. I rest my case.
On the horseshoes, I wrote this: From the GM Core pg. 272 on Companion Items. The last sentence is relevant: "You might want to acquire items that benefit a creature that assists you, such as an animal companion, familiar, or bonded animal. These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally, these are the only items a companion can use." Normally means that the RAW allows a GM to decide otherwise. And it's hard to argue that horseshoes don't work on a Centaur! Inner Radiance Torrent - good point! But in my defense I wasn't really thinking about the Magus specifically at that point. There are 3-action and 6-action arcane spells as well!
Can you go even further? There's a Poppet feat that makes you a small-sized centaur, and then there's a Poppet heritage that can make you tiny-sized...
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I assume they are referring too 'Quadraped', the Poppet feat that lets you have 4 legs and 30ft speed, that references your a 4-legged toy (like a horse. or a Centaur), in addition to the Toy Poppet heritage to be Tiny sized So not a actual Small Centaur, but flavor wise it is!
I played a normal size donkey centaur bard with a stereotypical Mexican mariachi-bandit human part , called don Pedro Pocito el Burro for a one shot get drunk fun game. And I loved it! I intimidated everybody by making a finger gun pointing at them, because that was my method of casting Phase bolt. It was super fun to meet my nemesis during that game: it was a ladder to climb XD
Being large has its problems. As a man who is six and a half feet or a thumbs breadth short of two metres, I am constantly asked about the downsides of being tall. I say the number one problem is chronic headaches (intentional pause) due to low ceilings.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG but if we have a large centaur, a medium centaur could ride a large centaur. Could a small player like a halfling ride the medium centaur riding the large centaur, so could you stack 3 characters if all of them can validly mount each other? Dang it, just now realising I used the wrong taur in the original post
@@PizzaMineKing Yes, you could even have only one centaur, the bottom, and have the middle be a medium creature, and the top be a tiny creature (like a toy poppet).
@@PizzaMineKing Yes that would be legal but it's not as funny as having a centaur on top =D I don't see a way under RAW to make a Small centaur atm, but someone mentioned a poppet feat? (hmm face)
Question: will the Rogue have his reaction to use on their Opportune Backstab? Their turn hasn’t started yet, as you’ve said the Centaur goes first. In other words, if two creatures share the initiative count but one “acts first” does the second creature gain their reaction? Does it count as if their turn has already started even though they haven’t had a go in the combat yet?
The rules say the GM can allow a reaction before a creature's first turn. I made a point that they all challenged each other to a fight openly, so it was clear that yes all creatures involved could react before their 1st turn.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG That's great, thank you for the clarification! I suppose it could also be said that as long as the 'rider' performs scouting during exploration, they can't really be surprised by the enemy.
So how do you Guys handle Centaur and Minotaur too Large to enter a narrow Dungeon Entrance? How do you handle to have a Centaur Sneak Attack? How you handle a Centaur trying to move stealthy? How do you handle a Centaur & Minotaur in a Tavern drinking Beer? How do you Handle a Centaur & Minotaur on a Ship and in Water? And and and? :D (focused on regular Large and non Magic Help )
The large Centaurs can Squeeze to get through 1 square openings. They just have to treat it as difficult terrain. If it's narrower than that, then you need some sort of magic, or the GM might let you break down a wall or something.
I tried to have them touch each other as much as possible. The Champion shouldn't be the only one laying hands. Actually, I did it because making someone Huge requires heightening Enlarge to 4th rank, so only the Magus can cast it at this level!
Yes (no seriously I think the less generous reading would be RAW. The feat only helps a Rider. It doesn't help a Mount. If someone is both, then the penalty of being a Mount is still in effect.)
Now I'm sad there isn't a way to do this for Androids, so we can have PCs Voltron, but this is so cool regardless! Also for this whole video: "Phrasing!"
If you want a machine you can kinda do it with a single pc. Construct companion (large) + construct eidolon (medium) + automaton/android pc (small). Also given that you can combine any ancestries now, you could mix automaton with something else. Main class summoner, archetype inventor. Might be a way to have the eidolon grapple two things to use as arms. Advanced weaponry gives the grapple trait. Think anything can use improvised weapons. Can do something similar using undead as well (with undead master instead of inventor)
Here's the rule: "The GM determines whether you can use reactions before your first turn begins, depending on the situation in which the encounter happens. " 2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2432&Redirected=1
Oh God No! I do not want to hear about the Centaur Stack again! D&D 5E was enough of that nightmare. POS D&D sub banned my account years ago. Reddit is surprisingly easy to circumvent.
Inspired by SwingRipper's comment about classes that make good bottoms... What classes do you think would be good tops and bottoms in the Centaur Stack? Or who would be good being part of the Double Meat?
ADDITIONS/ERRATA:
-It's possible to have FIVE in the stack, if you accept a toy centaur: the Poppet ancestry can take the Level 1 Quadruped feat, to be a toy horse/centaur and be the Small creature in the stack. (A triple decker, if not quite triple meat!)
-I'm disappointed that I didn't think of calling the Rogue's flanking feat the Gang Bang feat.
-I deny the allegations that my videos are "dry." I think this video's quite moist! And the next one's downright WET. Join the Patreon for early access! =D
-The general feat Adopted Ancestry (Elf) can get the Nimble Elf feat, which by RAW should stack with the centaur heritage's Speed increase! This, together with GREATER Alacritous Horseshoes, brings your base Speed up to 55 feet!
-Since the Fighter has the Druid archetype, they can cast Fleet Step for a 30-foot status bonus to Speed!
-A GM can allow horseshoes, which are "companion" items, on a centaur PC. From the GM Core pg. 272 on Companion Items: "These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally, these are the only items a companion can use."
"Normally" means that the RAW allows a GM to decide otherwise. And it's hard to argue that horseshoes don't work on a Centaur!
-If you think a Trip automatically makes them all prone, then I counter that a Stand action will bring them up again. Touché!
-Inner Radiance Torrent is not an Arcane spell, so not available to a magus. In my defense I wasn't thinking of this stack in particular at that moment. And there are many 3-action (and some 6-action) spells in the arcane spell list!
Champion of Arshea and a Cleric of Calistria.
A monk might be faster as a bottom and they also know how to use their tools well in few actions.
I feel like a barbarian might make a really good bottom cause they can get reactive strike and extra mobility through feats, if you're giant instinct you can enlarge yourself without the assistance of your other party members and best of all if you want some alone time you can use that one level 8 feat and throw all the people riding you. And all 3 of them would get a reaction to attack an adjacent enemy
The bottom center has to be a monk for all of that additional increased speed
@@CourtOfWinter I like the idea of a lightning-fast bottom who takes charge and Grapples with their arms and legs
All creatures upon seeing 4 centaurs riding each other immediately make a morale check.
Will save not to laugh and fall prone.
I came for the absurd idea and stayed for the double entendres
Drawbacks: any spell with a burst
Telekinetic rend hits your whole stack for example, despite having a relatively small AoE
That said, I'll agree that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks here
Remember the one who comment that Rules's lawyer video were dry? Bet they're feeling pretty stupid right now
Admittedly, this one is uncharacteristically lubricated.
I've had this up on Patreon since before the recent allegations lol.
Yeah this one's pretty moist.
The next one is downright WET! Patreon supporters get to watch it early! =D
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Ah, we talkin merfolk next?
I will neither confirm nor deny!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG slippery and non-committal!
Oh man, the Champion Centaur with Rogue Rider combo is absolutely devastating. And it's RAW LEGAL!!! Well done.
I'm not a naysayer, I'm a neighsayer! 😂😂
Huh sounds like you have a lot of experience in riding!
I bet the bottom champion could athletic rush and grab enemies to allow the top to have another target for their opportune backstab
I bet Monks would be great powerful bottoms as they don't need bulky clothes and are naturally fast and efficient so they can move to satisfy the needs of their riders
Oh no what have I done
@@TheRulesLawyerRPGthe lord's work...and a big mistake
Good idea. Those Focus Spells can benefit the whole party. Ki Rush, allowing 2 strides for a single action, and the monk can even Florry of Blows after that. The monk is basically doing 4 actions but paying only 2.
Being mounted solves the 3rd action problem so well, by giving the rider your movement.
Bottom centaur taking fleet made me come very close to choking on my coffee
My one of those was "the bottom is doing all the work anyway". Luckily my tea was still brewing and I hadn't begun drinking it yet, so ROnald doesn't owe me a new keyboard. THIS TIME.
I believe the only con in this build is that when mounted, you take -2 to reflex. AoE is the major enemy of this party since everyone is together, but this is not the end of the world, you can still heal after the damage.
There was a patently disturbing amount of cackling coming from the room where I was watching it.
This right here is true optimization. None of that white room DPR nonsense, you just stack your entire party in one spot and add a heaping dose of innuendo to keep things running, and unlock the infinite potential.
Oh and also just don't think about what happens if any area damage is thrown your way. It's probably fine.
A Centower ... :-)
"Where were you when you first heard of the Pathfinder Centower?" 😂
To the top
"Being larger isn't necessarily better. Believe me, I know."
RULES LAWYER!!!
Ronald, you made me spit-take my coffee. Good show man. Happy Pride Month!
Don't forget the Sylph versatile heritage as an option for extra move speed (and flight later!).
Best yet, Adopted Ancestry (Elf) for Nimble Elf can get you that 5' speed *and* stacks with Fleetwind heritage.
30 base + 5 (fleetwind) +5 (nimble elf) +5 (fleet) = 45' speed by level 7, with all bonus types still available.
if the bottom is a monk, at 7th level they have a 60' speed without any items or buffs. Flurry of Blows helps compensate for only having two actions as well.
There *is* one downside - they centaur stack party is always clumped in AoEs. You are right though - who cares!
(Correction: The Nimble Elf, Nimble Hooves, and Swift feats state that they do not stack with other ancestry feats that increase speed. However, they do not mention heritages, so will stack with Fleetwind.)
Many stacks might find they prefer a fairy to top
@@LeahLuciBi would rather have a Tiny Awakened Animal.... Miniature Horse? On top!
Just in case you're worried about how they maintain balance: the situation is stable.
I think this is the best video of all the internets.
I was so surprised when you got to "what about 4"
BUILD VIDEOS?! OH HELL YEAH! HAPPY PRIDE INDEED!
Edit- This video was so much fun! I was going crazy in my chair watching the quad-taur destroy everything lol! Def need more videos like this!
This has literally nothing to do with pride.
@@BobBobert-pz5eu I beg to differ!
I didn't plan for it to fall during Pride but this is a very moving story of forbidden Centaur-on-Centaur love
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Centaurs are supposed to bone other Centaurs. That's how babies are made. Still has nothing to do with pride.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG staying within your species is just... normal. Literally nothing to do with pride.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG How is two of the same species related to pride?
I was not ready for this greatness
Don't forget that carrying capacity also incrases when you're large (they reference the increased bulk of large equipment in Howl of the Wild which is in the same table that mentions double carrying capacity for large and more for huge) so the bulk is probably not an issue without Hefty Hauler anyway.
Oh yeah I had some very ugly math work but didn't want to bog down the video with it
It did get dicey however because the Bottom carries everyone's weight on top PLUS their equipment, AND their own equipment is 4x as heavy. Hence the caveats
8:48 OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR!
I think Accommodating Mount only applies the rider immediately above the mount, not the top rider.
For example, I'd assume that if we were to label the centaurs 1 through 4 (with 1 being the smallest), then if 4 has AM, that would only effect 3.
3 would need to have AM to effect 2, and 2 would need it to effect 1.
This is because 1 isn't riding 3, nor are 1 and 2 riding 4; but rather 1 is riding 2, which is riding 3, which is riding 4.
However, functionally, I believe you are correct. Only 1 gets to reap the benefits from 2, as 2 is losing the action that it would get from 3 by virtue of being ridden, while 3 is losing the action from 4 by virtue of being ridden.
I rest my case.
I only said it benefited the top Centaur, so the top Meat of the Double Meat is the only one who needs it!
For maximum mobility/speed, the bottom centaur should be a monk. :)
The biggest drawback is that the entire party can always be hit with even a small AoE, such as a cone.
The main drawback is you need to spend actions at the start of combat to enlarge/mount/shrink which kind of gives up half a round lmao. It's genuinely solid starting with round 2 though and that's hilarious.
The top player can be a non-centaur tiny size (even if it feels wrong in the polycule)
So that would save 1 spell cast with a tiny animal instead (...a tiny Awakened Miniature Horse maybe?)
This concept is wildly fun.
Every line of this video is gold.
This is some wackiness that you would see in Totally Accurate Battle Simulator.
This is savage... You're savage Ronald you know that?😂
This is the PF2e content I needed in my life.
My friend and I were thinking a mounted Kineticist on a centaur Monk! Monk for the extra speed and great action econ from Flurry of Blows.
I loved everything about this. :D Just a bit of spite and spice makes everything taste better.
Hecatonchire Centaur stacks.
Don't forget l4 enlarge let's you get a huge centaur for a little bit. And that Gang Up whirlwind attack (avalanche strike) is possible with a Mauler Archetype Rogue, all of which can qualify for sneak affack
Who would win?
The centower vs. one (1) successful trip?
As always, the hero of our story is wrestling!
I do actually want to know what happens to the top of the tower if you trip the middle, and if there were any rules in HotW about PCs not needing the mount special ability to use speeds other than land speed.
That said, the power of the centower is that it's awesome - not that there are no possible drawbacks.
Having fun seeing you cut loose with some MOIST CONTENT since some critics were saying you're too dry =)
This reminds me so much of Vehicle Crew rules from Only War where the entire party can drive a tank together. Most people dislike the idea and just play regular infantry but I personally love the idea of a mobile fortress with internal rooms people customise scince a Baneblade has a lot of spare rooms where people just sit to pilot the 11 guns.
One weakness I see is that the centaur stack is a little bit vulnerable to AoEs without a 2nd dedicated heal mage.
Leaning tower of centaur?
As a genius wrote: CenTower
Regarding the Horseshoes i would argue that the companion item text:
"These items have the companion trait, meaning *they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures*. Normally, these are *the only items a companion* can use."
Refers to them only being usable by companions and the "Normally" only allows companions different items.
However since the Horseshoes are just the Companion Version of
"Boots of Bounding" and as far as i can tell nothing stops centaurs from wearing those (by tying them to your hooves maybe) the reflavoring of Boots as Horseshoes is perfectly fine.
An excellent build and one i hope my players will never send against me!
Mount your Friends - but in Pathfinder.
Petition to name this strat the tower of babel.
5e has nothing on this madness. Thanks for getting me to switch!!
So this is the form of the optimal party.
A little taller than I thought.
I love absurd builds which are "correct" by the rules and work without destroying the game.
That was amusing to watch.
Not sure it is really practical to mount a mount but who cares for some Rules Lawyer fun!
You're having too much fun with this!
Actually I just started a playthrough on Baldurs Gate 3 where all the characters are stacked on the paladin. She's basically a tank while the others are turrets firing off spells and shields. It's very fun
Happy Pride Month, TRL!
Just don't let the grounded centaur get tripped and I think you'll be okay lol
I'd like to make the bottom centaur a Monk. They don't need armor or weapons so that allies can carry more equipment, they get large bonuses to move speed, they can crank up their reflex saves high, and flurry of blows is pretty great when you only have one non-movement action per turn.
Hi Ronald, really enjoyed the video! It's funny and informative. Also, your Foundry setup looks awesome! Is there a place where you've listed what modules you use?
There was not enough double entendres in this video.
Amazing kickoff to pride month
@3:15 Very nearly destroyed a keyboard with a spit take at that bit.
Happy pride 🐎
Cowboys are always ready to ride! 🌈
It looks like by the wording of it you cannot invest in the alacritous horseshoes because the wording states an ordinary horse or a quadrupedal animal companion. It even has companion as a trait.
From the GM Core pg. 272 on Companion Items. The last sentence is relevant: "You might want to acquire items that benefit a creature that assists you, such as an animal companion, familiar, or bonded animal. These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally, these are the only items a companion can use."
Normally means that the RAW allows a GM to decide otherwise. And it's hard to argue that horseshoes don't work on a Centaur!
By the way there's another magic item that has the exact same level and price. So whatever GM interpretation you have, PF2 has you covered. I couldn't resist an item called Horseshoes.
I will not share this to my group for fear of them trying these sort of shenanigans
The only neigh you'll get out of me for a drawback is AoE spells and attacks would be so effective good against this mighty mounted 4.
Perfectly released on time for pride month
@TheRulesLawyerRPG
a fireball or a grease spell and the 4 centaurs are'nt more a problem, no ?
Neighsaying: Your party is ripe for every AoE
This is ridiculous and I love it.
I'm about to play a merfolk champion in AV. I'm starting with Nimble Elf from half elf, and I think that 200% movement speed increase makes this a Very Good Build because it has a Big Numerical Increase
The pride month video we didn't deserve but got anyway
Centaur stacks are certainly sensationally sensual.
But I personally preferred the barbarian tank build. I can't put my finger on why, but part of me yearns to be inside a 18 ft. tall man/woman.🤔
I think the only drawback would be if an enemy tripped those that are mounted on one another.
As it stands and using all the Mounted Combat special rules; The only [Move] action you can take is 'Mount/Dismount' while mounted, meaning you cannot effectively 'Stand' as 'Stand' is a [Move] action.
So, if an enemy trips up the tower starting at the top, everyone is -2 to attack rolls and Off-guard until they dismount, falling the distance they were up, then having to spend an action to stand.
All that being said, it's a silly idea and enjoyable. x3
I love that reading this strictly only the bottom Centaur needs to stand in order to right everyone again
EDIT: I misread the original intent, but I still love the idea!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I may have worded it wrong or vaguely in my original reply and I apologize for that; I meant taking a Trip action (or otherwise cause Prone condition) against every Mounting Centaur.
Example if you take the Trip action (Or Telekinetic Maneuver) to trip Top, then the Meats and then (Or ignore) Bottom. I don't think Mounted makes you immune to Trip/Prone but it does act with the Mounted Rule regarding where the only [Move] action you can take is Mount(To Dismount) and therefore cannot Stand from Prone since Stand is a Move Action. Sure, it's a lot of actions but I think the Quad Mounting Centaur would have trouble RAW for Mounted combat in this one, very niche example.
I agree that tripping 'Bottom' doesn't make them all prone; It'd only make 'Bottom' prone, not 'Lucky' and 'Pierre' or 'Top.' At least, that's my understanding of it?
@@Chazori Hmm, the fact that you can't Stand while riding seems to be a hole in the rules. It implies that you cannot be prone if you're riding a mount, because it makes no sense to not be able to right yourself up. The only other fair reading is that you CAN be knocked prone but you may Stand to right yourself. It is possible to be partially out of your saddle I'm guessing. Whether or not it's RAW I'd allow Prone and Stand for a rider.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG That's a completely fair assumption, for sure! I think that's the best way to go about it.
The prone condition means you are on the ground. Which means you were dismounted as part of the trip. So you can stand up. The movement restriction applies to the person who is riding, not to the person carrying riders. Your riders can stay on you (??!!?) while you stand back up and get on your mount again.
I'm only 3 minutes in and I'm already dying
Completely off topic: DC20 just arrived on Kickstarter, I wonder what everyone's thoughts are, hoping for a lawyer vid :)
What in the name of Ron Jeremy. Lol. Talk about taking your enemies to the Donkey Show. 😂
Kidding aside, if that huge centaur on the bottom was a Kineticist (Fire/Earth Dual-Gate), you could pull some nasty shenanigans thanks to Safe Elements at Level 4.
At level 8, you could then have that Centaur Kineticist, while enlarged, use the Solar Detonation feat to blow your load all over the place, while keeping your friends safe.
And that doesn't even take into consideration their Gate Junctions. Or Aura Shaping starting at level 10.
Yikes and Lolz.
Have to ask, what UI modules do you use in foundry? in particular I love the chat cards, and am curious about the bottom 10 icons (macros?)
I list my modules on my discord. as for the macros I've used I've built those up over years
There is a Foundry Community Macros module I believe
But the Discord is very friendly and will answer your questions!
"Like in real live being larger isnt necesary better"
Me getting a critical hit with the kitchen shelf at 1.80 meters of the floor: "Its true"
Only one I can think of makes your entire stack suspect to AoEs far more often so maybe you just need to account for that with counterspells and other shit but this makes it incredibly easy to build for.
Crazy fun😁
Objections!
- Alacritious Horseshoes states "ordinary horse or quadrapedal animal companion". A Centaur is neither of those things. I'd allow it as a GM, but Rules As Written it doesn't work.
- Inner Radiance Torrent is a Divine/Occult spell. The Magus cannot cast it as they use the Arcane spell list. Without a Divine or Occult spellcasting dedication, this doesn't work.
I rest my case.
On the horseshoes, I wrote this:
From the GM Core pg. 272 on Companion Items. The last sentence is relevant: "You might want to acquire items that benefit a creature that assists you, such as an animal companion, familiar, or bonded animal. These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally, these are the only items a companion can use."
Normally means that the RAW allows a GM to decide otherwise. And it's hard to argue that horseshoes don't work on a Centaur!
Inner Radiance Torrent - good point! But in my defense I wasn't really thinking about the Magus specifically at that point. There are 3-action and 6-action arcane spells as well!
A cleric could be a good fit as well with how your main answer to any area-based reflex save will be to heal it off.
centower!
Can you go even further? There's a Poppet feat that makes you a small-sized centaur, and then there's a Poppet heritage that can make you tiny-sized...
Oh what is this feat? Was looking for a way to make a small centaur
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I assume they are referring too 'Quadraped', the Poppet feat that lets you have 4 legs and 30ft speed, that references your a 4-legged toy (like a horse. or a Centaur), in addition to the Toy Poppet heritage to be Tiny sized
So not a actual Small Centaur, but flavor wise it is!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Quadrupled. It gives the Poppet 4 legs.
@@tylerperkins6295 Thanks! Added to pinned comment
Just imagine a critter trying to grapple that stack....
That's it I'm going back to DND 😂
I played a normal size donkey centaur bard with a stereotypical Mexican mariachi-bandit human part , called don Pedro Pocito el Burro for a one shot get drunk fun game. And I loved it! I intimidated everybody by making a finger gun pointing at them, because that was my method of casting Phase bolt. It was super fun to meet my nemesis during that game: it was a ladder to climb XD
Being large has its problems. As a man who is six and a half feet or a thumbs breadth short of two metres, I am constantly asked about the downsides of being tall. I say the number one problem is chronic headaches (intentional pause) due to low ceilings.
Perfection. Sure to inflict night mares upon one's foals.
Is there anything stopping 2 med creatures from mounting 1 large centaur?
... does double-mounting work / could a small creature ride the medium Centaur?
Yes
Centaurs can bear a rider 1 size category smaller, everyone else needs the rider to be 2 sizes smaller!
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG but if we have a large centaur, a medium centaur could ride a large centaur. Could a small player like a halfling ride the medium centaur riding the large centaur, so could you stack 3 characters if all of them can validly mount each other?
Dang it, just now realising I used the wrong taur in the original post
@@PizzaMineKing Yes, you could even have only one centaur, the bottom, and have the middle be a medium creature, and the top be a tiny creature (like a toy poppet).
@@PizzaMineKing Yes that would be legal but it's not as funny as having a centaur on top =D
I don't see a way under RAW to make a Small centaur atm, but someone mentioned a poppet feat? (hmm face)
Well, it does mean that the whole stack is in formation for any AoE, including the infamous Fireball.
Question: will the Rogue have his reaction to use on their Opportune Backstab? Their turn hasn’t started yet, as you’ve said the Centaur goes first. In other words, if two creatures share the initiative count but one “acts first” does the second creature gain their reaction? Does it count as if their turn has already started even though they haven’t had a go in the combat yet?
The rules say the GM can allow a reaction before a creature's first turn. I made a point that they all challenged each other to a fight openly, so it was clear that yes all creatures involved could react before their 1st turn.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG That's great, thank you for the clarification! I suppose it could also be said that as long as the 'rider' performs scouting during exploration, they can't really be surprised by the enemy.
So how do you Guys handle Centaur and Minotaur too Large to enter a narrow Dungeon Entrance?
How do you handle to have a Centaur Sneak Attack?
How you handle a Centaur trying to move stealthy?
How do you handle a Centaur & Minotaur in a Tavern drinking Beer?
How do you Handle a Centaur & Minotaur on a Ship and in Water?
And and and? :D (focused on regular Large and non Magic Help )
The large Centaurs can Squeeze to get through 1 square openings. They just have to treat it as difficult terrain. If it's narrower than that, then you need some sort of magic, or the GM might let you break down a wall or something.
Instead of We Bare Bears, they'd have to call this We Covered Centaurs.
Is there a reason that the fighter and magus cast enlarge/shrink on eachother instead of themselves?
They love each other so they help each other
They used spells as manipulate actions...
I tried to have them touch each other as much as possible. The Champion shouldn't be the only one laying hands.
Actually, I did it because making someone Huge requires heightening Enlarge to 4th rank, so only the Magus can cast it at this level!
The top player can be anything!
So an awakened Animal Tiny Miniature Horse to top off the stack
6:20
He might go over this later, but with a liberal GM any small creature like a gnome can ride on the pony-gate centaur
can anyone calculate the IPM on this video?
Inuendo per minute, that is.
Wait. So the Bottom is Huge, then large, then Medium and the top one is Tiny?!?!
This means there is an entire space for a Small size in there!!!
Because of the Lv5 feat
does every centaur but the top one have 2 actions?
or
does every centaur but the bottom one have 3 actions?
Yes
(no seriously I think the less generous reading would be RAW. The feat only helps a Rider. It doesn't help a Mount. If someone is both, then the penalty of being a Mount is still in effect.)
nice tower
Now I'm sad there isn't a way to do this for Androids, so we can have PCs Voltron, but this is so cool regardless! Also for this whole video: "Phrasing!"
If you want a machine you can kinda do it with a single pc. Construct companion (large) + construct eidolon (medium) + automaton/android pc (small). Also given that you can combine any ancestries now, you could mix automaton with something else.
Main class summoner, archetype inventor.
Might be a way to have the eidolon grapple two things to use as arms. Advanced weaponry gives the grapple trait. Think anything can use improvised weapons.
Can do something similar using undead as well (with undead master instead of inventor)
I thought the fighter only gets its reaction on its first turn? how did it reactive strike before it could act in initiative
Here's the rule: "The GM determines whether you can use reactions before your first turn begins, depending on the situation in which the encounter happens. "
2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2432&Redirected=1
If only Pathfinder had wemics (the lion centaurs from Forgotten Realms) we could call this build Happy Pride.
drawback: aoe and splash abilities hits necessarily everyone and iirc riding creatures take a penalty to reflex saves
Happy pride!
Anyone got a link to full mounting a player rules?
I can only find the rules for mounting a horse.
OMG This is soooo funny!
Oh God No! I do not want to hear about the Centaur Stack again! D&D 5E was enough of that nightmare. POS D&D sub banned my account years ago. Reddit is surprisingly easy to circumvent.
There's a foundry module for mount. Don't remember the name though.
My favorite weird idea from howl of the wild is being a merman werebear.