I guess you use 2618 aluminum, but what about the elliptical shape and piston profile? Are you just ok with it not beeing round when its hot and it will wear linears and pistons fast ? Piston shape in cold state is very very important.
Are you going to coat the surface of the pistons sidewalls, for less friction inside the cylinder? There’s a black coating which works suuuper crazy good for lowering friction and keeping the temps cool while having the piston slide up and down the cylinder more easily resulting in less performanceLoss and reaching higher rpm faster as well as loosing rpm faster when no gas is pressed.
Wow, the quality of content on this channel is just so amazing. Love the spirit. When RUclips started we had DIYers tuning their cars and a few building kitcars. Today, people building the entire thing from scratch. What a journey!
I have a couple of suggestions for you. 1.) use a double spiral lock piston pin retainer (wire lock isn’t sufficient for that rpm) 2.) if you’re utilizing a dry sump system you can eliminate the oil control rings all together and use a Napier 2nd ring 3.) an accumulation groove between the top and 2nd ring wouldn’t be a bad idea 4.) a solid oil return design would be well worth the time in the design process 5.) checking the surface finish would be ideal and can be compensated with a coating 6.) if the design allows for a wider “rail” (for a lack of a better term) on the top of the pistons where it is at its thinnest that would be awesome. While the piston may sustain the pressure, it may not sustain the heat and can melt that edge
I know I'm late, just seeing this but WPC is a great surface treatment for parts, for pistons you have to be selective on where you treat them with this, but it is a great process.
I started watching your channel in 2018 because of your educational engineering videos. I'm glad you're getting back into it! Thanks for adding to the underserved MotorSport Mechanical Engineering market on RUclips. If you can, please keep posting more nerdy engineering videos.
There's a lot of sharp concave corners in that design unlike the f1 or any other piston. Concave edges are stress concentrations and sources of fatigue cracks and should always be filleted for load bearing features
@@xfmotorsports About sharp edges, i've noticed that the skirt's side edge isn't vertical on F1 piston and mercedes has put a chamfer like cutout on it. The skirt itself also seems to have some kind of relief (or is it just a wear pattern?)
@Muckin 4on You know what prototype means? Its just giving a try of the gcode in the machine, so he doesnt waste a expensive material. And He already told the load that should handle the design. That means he consider the yield strenght and others mech properties of the material in the calculus of the design with a safety factor. with that you can tell if viable to use the material or not
Amazing! I'm in a project for a class in my university in which we choose a piston to design the forging manufacture process and it is very similar to what you guys are doing!
What material is the billet. I would suggest for a production run, get the shape you need, slightly under size the wrist pin holes, solution heat treat and age to the final temper, then final machine and ream the wrist pin hole. Then look into surface coatings such as sulfuric acid anodize or chem film.
This is amazing you have come so far buddy it's awesome, I wish I had half the knowledge you do. Throwing this out there would you ever consider making pistons for any other mercedes engines like the M111.975? We are having so much trouble to find affordable solutions to the brittle mercedes pistons well Nural pistons. We have found like the M104 the engine is tough but the pistons let it down and have limited options in the UK for machining. I know it's a bit off the wall especially considering you specialise in the V8s
The only issue with that is that it reduced structural rigidity. So if you are doing rebuilds or replacements every 2 or three races like a pro team then maybe, but for the needed durability of low cost club racing, I would avoid it.
@@commentaryking5165 Maybe they can add thin pipe or use not pure aluminum to strengthen the piston, to make some kind of complicated drilling, I think pure aluminum is is bad for the load that they are trying to do, also the block itself is aluminum. Im watching other channel where they restore engines and modern engines are aluminum - trash that doesn't hold shape. Cast iron blocks come with 4 - 5 times more milage than aluminum. Skirts on modern pistons, piston rings, oil drain holes on piston oil rings, everything is done towards fuel efficiency and higher hp with less engineering.
@@pfoxhound I agree that pure aluminum is not the best choice, although I believe he said it was chosen just for gcode. So the final product will be made out of something else. There is always a trade off of some kind, that's for sure.
@@pfoxhound not true. Aluminum just needs a coating since otherwise it will deform too easily. Disadvantage of surfave hardening is that it will change shape slightly and you cant really do anything afterwards except grinding a couple thousands off, so extreme precision is required which this cnc cant do, esp not with the temperature changes. Im really sorry and maybe they have it conpletely planned out but i predict failiure sooner than later. Milled stock is one of the weakest form of metal
@@pfoxhound There might be a problem with that maybe? I’m not very knowledgeable about engines but I do know people remove piston oil squirters on the 2JZ because hot pistons + cooled oil caused blown engines. Perhaps the same logic might be applied here?
Great. Thumbs up. Ever thought of making a sleeve valve engine with your knowledge about thermal expansion? I could provide the CAD. One thing though, if u have a piston which can bear 250 bar, the open deck cylinder block will certainly be the limiting factor here, not the pistons.
Are you going to have the pistons coated with Teflon or Ceramic? I really enjoy watching your progress, from building a Race car from scratch, to making pistons In your new shop. Thanks for taking us along. 😊👍
I'm very impressed! Just a quick note, I'd make the sharp edges of the piston rounded. Round shapes will reduce stress concentrations, especially if the part is CNC'd instead of forged.
Looks like you need to try out trochoidal high speed milling to speed up your roughing process. But very impressed in how you used your mill as a lathe to finish the OD of the pistons.
Kudos to you - you are definitely pushing way through the boundaries of small company tuning development and I admire this very much. I am very curious, you have not mentioned the metallurgy of your pistons - can you tell us which alloy you are using, what, if any, final treatment process you intend to apply and whether you are going to utilise any of the many coating treatments available?
@@jareknowak8712 i didnt mean to write the, its late sry. What i mean was cam like in computer aided manufacturing (the stuff that happens between cad and gcode)
@@jareknowak8712 The original machines for making oval pistons did use a cam: It moved a grinding wheel in and out slightly as the piston was rotated on the machine, which produced the correct oval shape. Thus they were called 'cam ground' pistons. Nowadays you can do the same thing with the CNC software.
@@nerd1000ify grinding wheels???? this model piston doesn't have to be oval. The parts to make it oval (for less friction) are already missing. And that's good!!
Design has several areas with sharp corners which will result in stress concentrations where fatigue cracks will form. For something like this fatigue is critical, need to analyze it subject to the acceleration loading it will see at TDC, BDC at max rpm and see what happens. Ball end mill can get you the required fillets in the pockets. Otherwise, exciting project. Maybe you can make me some custom pistons!
i'm wondering about heat treating those pistons. is that part of the plan? i was also wondering about the density of your aluminum vs. what you used for your simulations. are you planning on refining the FEA with updated material properties?
It looks like there was some technology sharing when Daimler-Benz owned Chrysler. the combustion chamber on those heads is basically a 3-valve version of gen 3 Hemi right down to the dual spark plugs. granted the Benz head is a OHC and the Hemi is a push rod engine. but it is amazing how similar the intake and exhaust runners are to a gen 3 hemi as well. amazing video.
Interesting study congratulations for achieving it. I'm going to do the same. Pro: One axis turning for machining the piston profile and the ring grooves (+1) Cons : Missing the elliptical shape of the piston. Your alusil liners will rapidly wear without the needed coatings... How did you set up the loadings on the software? Thermal and mechanical. Thanks.
As for wrist pin clearance, final coearance needs to be done on line hone for final surface polishing/cross hatch on the wrist pin area... Not to mention u need oil port hole for the pin, for the oil scraper ring as well as gas port for top of the piston ring for total cylinder seal during engine operation
Are there any books you would recommend on internal combustion engines? I would really like to learn more about clearances, engine designs etc. And I'm a bit puzzled on where to start.
First things first. Not oval put tapered, and not F1 car pistons but road car with different tolerances. Another thing I saw when they measured existing piston, no doubt they doing a job good💁
Hi XF and Marhew. Thank you for your vid. Your design requires substantial skirt ovality because the boss webs expand lengthwise with combustion heat. If you run these at a similar clearance to original pistons, they will sieize in 4 places. In contrast, a very basic design such as a 2 stroke, can get away with almost no ovality. With your equipment and expertise, a precision oval turning attachment that you could make yourselves is absolutely do-able. Reply to this comment if you want some pictures of my version for a cnc mill. Piston Pete UK.
Amazing content, will you be reducing the counterweights on the factory crankshaft to compensate the lighter pistons or is the weight decrease of the pistons not significant enough to cause imbalance?
What material did you use to make the piston and what is your clearance between the piston and bore. Just curious about thermal expansion and how you calculated for it.
The material you're using will determine expansion taper, and the top of the piston is called the crown...💯 But congratulations on pushing the boundaries, you've got a new subscriber
you pull apart enough engines you can find where the valves floated into the crown of the piston and the marks are no where near the reliefs sometimes. The engineering on mass produced engines can be quite scary. Interested to see how this works out. The skirts of most pistons are usually patterned with an oil retaining feature of some micro grooving or knurling.
My engine builder hones the bores on out of the box forged pistons from the aftermarket. Some times it's best to hand finish certain things. He often saw differences in fit from side to side. Are you going to balance the pistons for weight?
Wondering if the sharp corners where the side wall bits meet the flat head are optimal ? Quite a peak stress point ? The f1 piston also has a radius there.
Amazing stuff, so that ferrari piston came with the specifics of the alloy used in it? It also came with the thermal/chemical treatment guide, didn't it ?
Is really cool and you get a lot more tuning capabilities over the rpm range, but you need to drive a compressor, by engjne power to let the valves go up and down. So i don't think it is really more efficiënt over the conventional camshaft as you use the high rpm range on the track anyway. But it is cool to see someone use the tech tho.
It allows you to tune for higher range of RPM but he's using 2618 because he only needs the top end. So, going camless would quite an obsolete yet expensive choice. 🤷🏻♂️
Forged w/finished machining will be stronger (f1 piston) and less prone to stress cracks due to proper grain flow in the metal lattice Billet machined wont have proper grain flow and will be more prone to fatigue and stress cracking across grain boundaries. This isn’t simulated in the FEA you’ve run. Good nugget of info to tell your viewers.
Yeah i thought the same. Im really worried that it wont work. Its also need really good cooling and oiling otherwise the block will enjoy a nice bite out of it
They're machined from forged 2618. The material about 30% stronger than the regular 4032 forged pistons. It just has a 20% higher expansion rate which is why road cars don't use them
@@xfmotorsports are you annealing the final product? that will improve the grain flow substantially If you ever need anything 3D scanning, I run a small engineering business in the UK (insta @Laminar.solutions) and would be happy to use our laser scanners to give you hand on any projects. Love your content, keep it up!
@Jessica Suzumiya mate, he never assumed him to be an idiot, rather merely made a genuine suggestion. Then he got an fairly inoffensive reply. If you want drama, go watch some bloggers. This is how we tend to communicate in STEM... straight to the point.
Pretty cool. It would have been nice too see more focus on ring grooves, flatness and surface finish. All very important aspects of getting the rings to seal.
What grade/alloy of aluminum are you using for the final product? Is it forged stock or cast stock? Congratulations on prototyping a design. There’s weeks of work that goes into getting something that works at all.
Amazed by your work truly motivational to build something from scratch. All the best for your future. I am not sure though but since you reduced the weight of the pistons by a significant amount don't you need to decrease the weight of the balancing masses/counter weights on the crankshaft otherwise unbalanced rotational mass might lead to increased vibrations. I hope this is not the case since I am not quite sure. Anyways Jazak Allah Khaer for these amazing content.
Making pistons lighter is really important for high revving engine, but even more important is to reduce stroke to achieve lower speed/inertia of the piston. The valves and in particular the valve spring are the other thing you should think about if you would want 11k+ rpms. I am really curious how this will perform. Congratulations on this amazing project !
Have you thought about coating? Cerakote micro slick P-109 is 70$ for a pint and made for piston skirts, valve stems, etc. C-110 is the same but air curing so a bit easier to apply.
How much do you change the ovality and taper on the piston to compensate for differing materials and higher designed operating temperatures?. Curious about how you simulate the change in the shape of the piston at operating temperature based on the temperature gradient and the thermal mass in differing areas - ie it does not expand evenly in all directions. how is this then fed into the design for machining at room temperature. be interesting to see the F1 piston - how much ovality and taper in the design
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I guess you use 2618 aluminum, but what about the elliptical shape and piston profile? Are you just ok with it not beeing round when its hot and it will wear linears and pistons fast ? Piston shape in cold state is very very important.
How about you ceramic coated the top and the skirts
@@karlssonengineering I think he's not aware of that pistons aren't round..
Talkin, talkin, talkin nnnnn talkinnnn. when do u breathe..or... sigh...?
Are you going to coat the surface of the pistons sidewalls, for less friction inside the cylinder? There’s a black coating which works suuuper crazy good for lowering friction and keeping the temps cool while having the piston slide up and down the cylinder more easily resulting in less performanceLoss and reaching higher rpm faster as well as loosing rpm faster when no gas is pressed.
Wow, the quality of content on this channel is just so amazing. Love the spirit.
When RUclips started we had DIYers tuning their cars and a few building kitcars. Today, people building the entire thing from scratch. What a journey!
This is amazing. Really looking forward to your future projects if this is your standard!
I have a couple of suggestions for you.
1.) use a double spiral lock piston pin retainer (wire lock isn’t sufficient for that rpm)
2.) if you’re utilizing a dry sump system you can eliminate the oil control rings all together and use a Napier 2nd ring
3.) an accumulation groove between the top and 2nd ring wouldn’t be a bad idea
4.) a solid oil return design would be well worth the time in the design process
5.) checking the surface finish would be ideal and can be compensated with a coating
6.) if the design allows for a wider “rail” (for a lack of a better term) on the top of the pistons where it is at its thinnest that would be awesome. While the piston may sustain the pressure, it may not sustain the heat and can melt that edge
I know I'm late, just seeing this but WPC is a great surface treatment for parts, for pistons you have to be selective on where you treat them with this, but it is a great process.
Whu are you ?
I started watching your channel in 2018 because of your educational engineering videos. I'm glad you're getting back into it! Thanks for adding to the underserved MotorSport Mechanical Engineering market on RUclips. If you can, please keep posting more nerdy engineering videos.
Been a machinist for 30 years never seen anyone use the mill like that. Unreal! Way to think outside the box!
nothing special for "easy" tasks. i can´t believe you´ve never seen something like that...
There's a lot of sharp concave corners in that design unlike the f1 or any other piston. Concave edges are stress concentrations and sources of fatigue cracks and should always be filleted for load bearing features
Super cool stuff though!!
Yeh it's just for the prototype. For the final ones we are using radiused endmills
@@xfmotorsports You always think of everything. Can't wait to see it run!
@@xfmotorsports About sharp edges, i've noticed that the skirt's side edge isn't vertical on F1 piston and mercedes has put a chamfer like cutout on it. The skirt itself also seems to have some kind of relief (or is it just a wear pattern?)
It's so cool to see the design process of this car. Can't wait to see the rest!
So need am vantage special zagato ?
I can't believe it, this man is making his own pistons even
@Muckin 4on as if it's that easy
@Muckin 4on Its a prototype, he doesnt especified the material and treatment that is going to be in the final product
@Muckin 4on You know what prototype means? Its just giving a try of the gcode in the machine, so he doesnt waste a expensive material. And He already told the load that should handle the design. That means he consider the yield strenght and others mech properties of the material in the calculus of the design with a safety factor. with that you can tell if viable to use the material or not
Come on man, Burt Monroe even cast his own 1000 years ago.. :D
Amazing! I'm in a project for a class in my university in which we choose a piston to design the forging manufacture process and it is very similar to what you guys are doing!
So excited for this amazing project
One the projects I'm most impressed with. Great work as always!
This is an awesome video, thank you for making and posting it!
Loving the videos, really interesting and well explained. Keep it up :)
Great work, you guys put a lot of thought into it. I wish I could like this more than once, thank you.
What material is the billet. I would suggest for a production run, get the shape you need, slightly under size the wrist pin holes, solution heat treat and age to the final temper, then final machine and ream the wrist pin hole. Then look into surface coatings such as sulfuric acid anodize or chem film.
2618 forged alloy
This is amazing you have come so far buddy it's awesome, I wish I had half the knowledge you do. Throwing this out there would you ever consider making pistons for any other mercedes engines like the M111.975? We are having so much trouble to find affordable solutions to the brittle mercedes pistons well Nural pistons. We have found like the M104 the engine is tough but the pistons let it down and have limited options in the UK for machining. I know it's a bit off the wall especially considering you specialise in the V8s
Make oil feed through piston, so it will be extremely cooled by oil.
The only issue with that is that it reduced structural rigidity. So if you are doing rebuilds or replacements every 2 or three races like a pro team then maybe, but for the needed durability of low cost club racing, I would avoid it.
@@commentaryking5165 Maybe they can add thin pipe or use not pure aluminum to strengthen the piston, to make some kind of complicated drilling, I think pure aluminum is is bad for the load that they are trying to do, also the block itself is aluminum. Im watching other channel where they restore engines and modern engines are aluminum - trash that doesn't hold shape. Cast iron blocks come with 4 - 5 times more milage than aluminum. Skirts on modern pistons, piston rings, oil drain holes on piston oil rings, everything is done towards fuel efficiency and higher hp with less engineering.
@@pfoxhound I agree that pure aluminum is not the best choice, although I believe he said it was chosen just for gcode. So the final product will be made out of something else. There is always a trade off of some kind, that's for sure.
@@pfoxhound not true. Aluminum just needs a coating since otherwise it will deform too easily. Disadvantage of surfave hardening is that it will change shape slightly and you cant really do anything afterwards except grinding a couple thousands off, so extreme precision is required which this cnc cant do, esp not with the temperature changes. Im really sorry and maybe they have it conpletely planned out but i predict failiure sooner than later. Milled stock is one of the weakest form of metal
@@pfoxhound There might be a problem with that maybe? I’m not very knowledgeable about engines but I do know people remove piston oil squirters on the 2JZ because hot pistons + cooled oil caused blown engines. Perhaps the same logic might be applied here?
This is an awesome project kudos to you guys!
Great. Thumbs up. Ever thought of making a sleeve valve engine with your knowledge about thermal expansion? I could provide the CAD.
One thing though, if u have a piston which can bear 250 bar, the open deck cylinder block will certainly be the limiting factor here, not the pistons.
Love the progress of the build!
Are you going to have the pistons coated with Teflon or Ceramic?
I really enjoy watching your progress, from building a Race car
from scratch, to making pistons
In your new shop. Thanks for taking us along. 😊👍
I so enjoy everything about this video great job thank you for the info
can you please make video on Finite element analyais
I've done fea to some degree but if you use Ansys I would like imdepth with boundaries
I'm very impressed! Just a quick note, I'd make the sharp edges of the piston rounded. Round shapes will reduce stress concentrations, especially if the part is CNC'd instead of forged.
Epic!!!! Well done mate they look awesome
Looks like you need to try out trochoidal high speed milling to speed up your roughing process. But very impressed in how you used your mill as a lathe to finish the OD of the pistons.
Hi, nice video. How do you estimate the thermal expansion of the cylinder in order to choose the correct clearence between piston and cylinder?
Kudos to you - you are definitely pushing way through the boundaries of small company tuning development and I admire this very much.
I am very curious, you have not mentioned the metallurgy of your pistons - can you tell us which alloy you are using, what, if any, final treatment process you intend to apply and whether you are going to utilise any of the many coating treatments available?
12:27 i think the clearance was perfect, considering that aluminum expands alot more than steel and the piston will be alot hotter than the wrist pin.
Did you mean 22:27
@@zakr1187 no i'm talking about the wrist pin
Yup i agree, it shouldnt be too loose, otherwise it will knock around and bend the aluminum
I thought the clearance was perfect also
Can’t wait to follow more of this build!!!
Mahle pistons are not only tapered, also egg-shaped. They're not round. it's compensation for the exhaust side getting hotter.
Maybe they compensated for this in the cam but i doubt it
@@D3nn1s How You gonna compensate the outer shaper of piston (round-oval) with a cam? :)
@@jareknowak8712 i didnt mean to write the, its late sry.
What i mean was cam like in computer aided manufacturing (the stuff that happens between cad and gcode)
@@jareknowak8712 The original machines for making oval pistons did use a cam: It moved a grinding wheel in and out slightly as the piston was rotated on the machine, which produced the correct oval shape. Thus they were called 'cam ground' pistons. Nowadays you can do the same thing with the CNC software.
@@nerd1000ify grinding wheels???? this model piston doesn't have to be oval. The parts to make it oval (for less friction) are already missing. And that's good!!
i cant wait to hear that engine start when its finished.
Wow! Like the design decisions behind this.
Design has several areas with sharp corners which will result in stress concentrations where fatigue cracks will form. For something like this fatigue is critical, need to analyze it subject to the acceleration loading it will see at TDC, BDC at max rpm and see what happens. Ball end mill can get you the required fillets in the pockets. Otherwise, exciting project. Maybe you can make me some custom pistons!
He answered a different comment pointing out the same thing and he just didn't do it for the prototype pistons but will radius the real pistons
i'm wondering about heat treating those pistons. is that part of the plan? i was also wondering about the density of your aluminum vs. what you used for your simulations. are you planning on refining the FEA with updated material properties?
Awesome! Thanks for sharing.
Some amazing stuff happening here. Nice!
Mercedes Benz's engineers: makes a piston
XF Motorsport engeneers : Not good enough
🤣
Well, they are not getting all that went into that AMG piston.
They even compare Billet to Forged ...
well, there is a difference between costs of standard production cars and the exclusive models, Good enough is for what application it is intended for
Love your content. Thank you very much!
Crazy cool, nice work,
Cool project!
Can't wait for the next vid. Definitely want to dry sump my m113 one day as well
It looks like there was some technology sharing when Daimler-Benz owned Chrysler. the combustion chamber on those heads is basically a 3-valve version of gen 3 Hemi right down to the dual spark plugs. granted the Benz head is a OHC and the Hemi is a push rod engine. but it is amazing how similar the intake and exhaust runners are to a gen 3 hemi as well. amazing video.
You are amazing man , i'm following from libya
Just curious, are you going to adjust the weights of the crankshaft balancing weights to adjust for the now lighter pistons?
Im so stoked to see this
Interesting study congratulations for achieving it. I'm going to do the same.
Pro: One axis turning for machining the piston profile and the ring grooves (+1)
Cons : Missing the elliptical shape of the piston. Your alusil liners will rapidly wear without the needed coatings...
How did you set up the loadings on the software? Thermal and mechanical. Thanks.
fascinating work!
Next level engineering 👏👏👏👏
As for wrist pin clearance, final coearance needs to be done on line hone for final surface polishing/cross hatch on the wrist pin area...
Not to mention u need oil port hole for the pin, for the oil scraper ring as well as gas port for top of the piston ring for total cylinder seal during engine operation
Are there any books you would recommend on internal combustion engines? I would really like to learn more about clearances, engine designs etc. And I'm a bit puzzled on where to start.
Amazing, this is good content
Pistons are slightly oval to allow expansion in the direction of piston pin. From what I saw of the final turning of your piston it is not.
Quer ensinar o padre a rezar a missa...
There is much the father could learn from him
First things first. Not oval put tapered, and not F1 car pistons but road car with different tolerances. Another thing I saw when they measured existing piston, no doubt they doing a job good💁
Can anyone tell whether zinc aluminum alloy is good for making pistons of bitzer semi hermetic
@@maciejsn2126 Pistons are tapered and oval
Hi XF and Marhew. Thank you for your vid. Your design requires substantial skirt ovality because the boss webs expand lengthwise with combustion heat. If you run these at a similar clearance to original pistons, they will sieize in 4 places. In contrast, a very basic design such as a 2 stroke, can get away with almost no ovality. With your equipment and expertise, a precision oval turning attachment that you could make yourselves is absolutely do-able. Reply to this comment if you want some pictures of my version for a cnc mill. Piston Pete UK.
I'm impressed with your piston lathe. Holding the tool in the vice :D That's creativity.
Cheers!
Is this aluminium forged or a special strength?
T5952
2618
@@xfmotorsports thanks. It's a good read on what that aluminium is capable of and what additives it has in it. Looking forward to this build👌
@@xfmotorsports what software do you use
@@xfmotorsports did you increased the clearance for 2618 vs stock?
Yes! Please analyze the F1 race used piston you have also!
This channel is so much underrated
Amazing content, will you be reducing the counterweights on the factory crankshaft to compensate the lighter pistons or is the weight decrease of the pistons not significant enough to cause imbalance?
This project just keeps getting better.
Your work inspires me bro. Mercedes doesn’t have much aftermarket support and it’s sad but you got a great thing going keep the motion
What material did you use to make the piston and what is your clearance between the piston and bore. Just curious about thermal expansion and how you calculated for it.
The material you're using will determine expansion taper, and the top of the piston is called the crown...💯 But congratulations on pushing the boundaries, you've got a new subscriber
18:34 now thats is one heavy piston. Just kidding man, nice video as always!
you pull apart enough engines you can find where the valves floated into the crown of the piston and the marks are no where near the reliefs sometimes. The engineering on mass produced engines can be quite scary. Interested to see how this works out. The skirts of most pistons are usually patterned with an oil retaining feature of some micro grooving or knurling.
Taking "building it better" to another level!
My engine builder hones the bores on out of the box forged pistons from the aftermarket. Some times it's best to hand finish certain things. He often saw differences in fit from side to side. Are you going to balance the pistons for weight?
hi , saw your videous of suspension geometry , wanted to know which soft you were
using?
Amazing. How the mterial of this piston is choosed can you give me an clear idea
What about having to get the piston skirts coated for less friction?
Would love to visit this guy for once. Best youtube channel for geeky stuffs.
Man it brings me joy to see how you have grown from a garage project to basically teaching engineering students in your own workshop
Going fast is definitely cool but the journey to achieve fast is the real joy. Enjoy the journey !
Wondering if the sharp corners where the side wall bits meet the flat head are optimal ? Quite a peak stress point ? The f1 piston also has a radius there.
I am working on a de-stroking of an engine, and using Fusion 360 may you show me the way you design the piston, and did analyzes?
Thanks
Arin
is there any point to making the pocket around the intake valves a little deeper, for a some more float and add it back in around the sides?
Amazing stuff, so that ferrari piston came with the specifics of the alloy used in it? It also came with the thermal/chemical treatment guide, didn't it ?
After the dry sump you need to start to design to go camless for the high rpm
Camless need solenoid and computer to can operate.
Is really cool and you get a lot more tuning capabilities over the rpm range, but you need to drive a compressor, by engjne power to let the valves go up and down. So i don't think it is really more efficiënt over the conventional camshaft as you use the high rpm range on the track anyway. But it is cool to see someone use the tech tho.
It allows you to tune for higher range of RPM but he's using 2618 because he only needs the top end.
So, going camless would quite an obsolete yet expensive choice. 🤷🏻♂️
Forged w/finished machining will be stronger (f1 piston) and less prone to stress cracks due to proper grain flow in the metal lattice
Billet machined wont have proper grain flow and will be more prone to fatigue and stress cracking across grain boundaries. This isn’t simulated in the FEA you’ve run.
Good nugget of info to tell your viewers.
Yeah i thought the same. Im really worried that it wont work. Its also need really good cooling and oiling otherwise the block will enjoy a nice bite out of it
They're machined from forged 2618. The material about 30% stronger than the regular 4032 forged pistons. It just has a 20% higher expansion rate which is why road cars don't use them
@Jessica Suzumiya not assuming, it wasnt said in the video is all buddy, im a materials engineer mate
@@xfmotorsports are you annealing the final product? that will improve the grain flow substantially
If you ever need anything 3D scanning, I run a small engineering business in the UK (insta @Laminar.solutions) and would be happy to use our laser scanners to give you hand on any projects.
Love your content, keep it up!
@Jessica Suzumiya mate, he never assumed him to be an idiot, rather merely made a genuine suggestion. Then he got an fairly inoffensive reply.
If you want drama, go watch some bloggers. This is how we tend to communicate in STEM... straight to the point.
Good work 👍
Pretty cool. It would have been nice too see more focus on ring grooves, flatness and surface finish. All very important aspects of getting the rings to seal.
What grade/alloy of aluminum are you using for the final product? Is it forged stock or cast stock?
Congratulations on prototyping a design. There’s weeks of work that goes into getting something that works at all.
did you leave the oil return holes out of the oil ring bore because this is a prototype?
Amazed by your work truly motivational to build something from scratch. All the best for your future.
I am not sure though but since you reduced the weight of the pistons by a significant amount don't you need to decrease the weight of the balancing masses/counter weights on the crankshaft otherwise unbalanced rotational mass might lead to increased vibrations. I hope this is not the case since I am not quite sure.
Anyways Jazak Allah Khaer for these amazing content.
Making pistons lighter is really important for high revving engine, but even more important is to reduce stroke to achieve lower speed/inertia of the piston. The valves and in particular the valve spring are the other thing you should think about if you would want 11k+ rpms. I am really curious how this will perform. Congratulations on this amazing project !
At 10000 RPM a piston "weighs" 5000 times as much as at 0 RPM. so the saving of 20g+ will make a big differance at 11k rpm.
Have you thought about coating? Cerakote micro slick P-109 is 70$ for a pint and made for piston skirts, valve stems, etc. C-110 is the same but air curing so a bit easier to apply.
Do you mind me asking what grade of aluminium will you use for the final items, thanks
Did the stock piston also not have gas reliefs in the ring land areas? I know that is pretty common when managing piston rings.
U guys are geniuses
Ace, great work.
Have you given up on the e55 manual?
How come you keep the stock piston rod's? they are that good / strong? How much whp you think the can take from the m113k the rods?
YEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!! Next step. Designing your own turbos haha.
Excellent job
A fantastic journey into automotive engineering.
I love this channel.
How much do you change the ovality and taper on the piston to compensate for differing materials and higher designed operating temperatures?.
Curious about how you simulate the change in the shape of the piston at operating temperature based on the temperature gradient and the thermal mass in differing areas - ie it does not expand evenly in all directions.
how is this then fed into the design for machining at room temperature.
be interesting to see the F1 piston - how much ovality and taper in the design
Good job 👍
Amazing content
Awesome 😲👌👌