HOW TO: Build a Timber Wall
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Step-by-step HOW TO video of building a timber wall with 6" x 6" x 8-foot treated timbers. First tool that will come in handy during construction is a 4-foot level. Footnote: On taller and longer walls you might consider adding a cross-timber on the end of the deadmen (tiebacks running into the ground behind the wall) to create a "T" for added support and strength.
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awesome video sir. As an architect, I recommend including a "T" at the end of the deadman so that the deadman has more tearout/bearing and provides more support for the wall. Also, try to offset, uphill, the timbers at least 1/4" per layer so they lean back into the hill.
For your purposes here, this should work very well.
Definitely good ideas, especially for longer and higher walls! I need to get back down to that job site to record a fresh video of this past project, to see how it's doing.
What a good video! Clear concise instructions/explanations! Just by chance, today, I was outside planning almost the identical hillside wall and this video magically appeared as "recommended for you" as I was looking at gun videos!
Considering the popularity of guns these days, it might be popping up a lot! I still need to get out to do another follow-up on that wall, and see how its holding up.
Your shed is so clean it looks like a drawing. Nice video.
The client had it installed right before our work on the timber wall. Thanks for watching Bobscaping!
Thank you mr. bob! I know you know your stuff when you explained that you don’t use fabric under regular mulch. Great video
You bet
Thanks bob
Ty so much
Thanks for watching the Bobscaping channel!
Nice job boss man thanks for you recommendation 👍
You bet
Due to all the comments received on this timber wall construction I thought it would be worth checking-up on the wall 26 months later (and 2 cold freeze-thaw winters) to see how it was doing. Other than some slight timber shrinkage and twisting the wall is standing tall and has not moved. Short video: ruclips.net/video/U4cRLOWJ1GU/видео.html
Nice job and way to keep it concise.
Thanks!
I'm starting my own landscaping business and your vids help a lot
First thing to learn on landscaping. Drainage. What he did is all wrong. High potential of moving. Always wrap big o and clear gravel with landscaping fabric like a burrito. They way he did it. Sand will clog the clear and then fill the big o. See it before. What can happen then is all that area behind the area gets saturated and the weight of dirt will push the wall out. If it's in an area with with freezing are. Frost WILL push it out over time
Thanks for your input, but I would offer up a case where we used your burrito method for a french drain running across a lawn, and the landscape fabric clogged with dirt, thereby preventing water from reaching the gravel. This wall was still holding up well the last time I checked!
1:47 No comment on the black hose. Wasn't in there at 1:35. Oh good, you mention it at 2:35. At 4:46 ... One thing to note is that the bushes are too close to the wall, although a good distance apart. For a guy that carefully measured everything else, I, as a landscaper, got a good laugh out of that. Loved your video! Filled my cart up at Home Depot as you spoke. Thank you. Getting a great price comparison to stone this way. I want to use the buried Ts, stain my wood, and switch to 4ft rebar instead of 2ft.
The "black hose" is 4-inch perforated plastic flex pipe. Bushes were intentionally planted close to the wall as that section of lawn is narrow. The 4 ft. rebar is fine if you don't hit rock... or an underground utility line. Have fun!
this is exactly what i will be doing
The more 'deadmen' the better, this wall didn't have very much soil to retain.
I'm starting my own landscaping business and your vids help a lot thanks bro!
Hope you got your business off the ground and it is still doing well, glad to help! New website now at bobscaping.com
@@bobscaping top soil? no hard base? thought a tractor was going through. that wall is failing too. dead man is in wrong. the plants are pooling into the barn too. horrendous job
@@wilcoleman9742 We used topsoil so the client would have the best quality lawn possible when viewing that area from his back windows, and the most weight traversing that area will be a small garden tractor. Many landscapers probably would have used cheap fill dirt. Never heard the term "plants are pooling"?? Here is a follow-up video of the wall showing that it was doing just fine after 2 years: ruclips.net/video/U4cRLOWJ1GU/видео.html Maybe someday we can check back on that wall again with another video to help allay your fears. Thanks for watching the Bobscaping channel!
Nice work
Thank you! Cheers!
Great Tutor and done right
stormennorm Time will tell... it always does!
Instead of leaving the edge staggered, did you give any thought to cutting beveled pieces for the edge of the wall to make a 45 degree angle from the ground and make it look better?
ecstasyofgold888 That can add a nice finishing touch to walls.
Thanks and yes, that's the way we roll! Maybe find some friends to help too.
+boyzgotdablues Many hands make light work!
Million dollar question...How has it held up? I've been searching for a video like this to see how I could build the approach to my shed that can only be built on a hillside.
Below is the link to the follow-up video of that timber wall 8 years later and it looked good. It never hurts to use more "deadmen" to help give a wall additional support, especially if the wall is any taller than that one, and holding back more of a slope.
ruclips.net/video/FSF0bDsD3Zk/видео.html
I hope you put fabric around your drain pipe or else it will be rendered useless when the dirt fills and clogs the drain holes. Also. it seemed to drain out to nowhere. I'm perplexed. But then again I confuse easily !
We did one french drain with the same type pipe surrounded by 2b limestone, with it all wrapped in fabric, and the fabric actually clogged and had to be cut away later. We would typically at least put a fabric "roof" over top of a pipe like the one in the video.
Check with your timber supplier for specific recommendations. It's often recommended that CCA treated lumber used for decks and timbers is sealed to help limit leaching and exposure to the treatment chemicals, with arsenic being the most likely to leach. CCA treated timbers were pulled from the market in some countries about 10 years ago. Sealing fully-dried treated timbers might help them a little cosmetically, with cut ends most likely to benefit from sealing for extending longevity.
your job looks good, and for what your retaining it looks strong enough to me, hopefully drain is working that will make a difference. did you put your Decorative Stone up to the grass will nothing in between. must need constant hand weeding lawn growing into bed.
You have a point there, but we didn't want to 'break the budget' on this bid.
how did you fasten two timbers that are butted up end to end?
The timber ends were not fastened together. Having each timber spiked into the timber below held them in place, but we made sure to stagger those joints like bricklayers do with brick walls. And of course the timber joints that were sandwiched between timbers, above and below, have extra support.
Also.. Do you use plastic or material around the pipe? and is there a drain coming from between the timbers to allow the water from drain to exit. Liked this video but so much important info missing.
Sorry about that Misty, actually getting a job done took priority over making a video in most cases, so things got missed. I don't recall wrapping that perforated pipe with any landscape fabric, but we may have put a layer over top (like a roof) to prevent dirt from percolating downward through the gravel. Some commenters here have made a good case for using pebble-sized river rock instead of the 2b limestone we typically used, since the gaps between stone are slightly larger. In case you missed it, I recently posted a follow-up video of that wall project here: ruclips.net/video/FSF0bDsD3Zk/видео.html
Thanks for watching the Bobscaping channel!
@@bobscaping I can imagine. Do appreciate you making it.
Looks good. I'd throw in some edging along the gravel.
Yes, some sort of border would enhance the project, but we were trying to hold down costs.
@@bobscaping You'll lose the stone to the tractor as it cuts the grass and as the grass moves in. (Landscape fabric does not stop grass.) Long-term, it'd be better to add edging, even if only aluminum and not stone. If you really want to cut costs, look for free bricks, and use those to protect some cheap cruddy black rubber edging or the aluminum as I'd suggest. The bricks not only keep the stone in but also act as a rumble strip for the tractor. You can easily spray any grass with a tiny bit of roundup or just let it grow into the bricks like I do; the edging stops most of it.
Wish you would have shown what you did with the drainage pipe....
It basically ran along the bottom of the wall and exited at the end of the lowest exposed timber, on the opposite end of the wall from the shed.
@@bobscaping Did you put a end cap on one side and a drain screen on the other?Did the drain go out between the timber?
They make a plastic end cap that fits on those drain pipes, or you can tie a piece of landscape fabric over that end. Our pipe just exited right behind the timber on the low end of the wall. You can't really see it in this follow-up video we did recently: ruclips.net/video/FSF0bDsD3Zk/видео.html
When you spiked the 6x6 did you pre drill holes or just hammer in without drilling holes? This is my project for next spring. Thanks
TarsandSerpents We drill all the way through the top timber with a ship auger style drill bit that is the same diameter as the spike, and just slightly into the timber below, so that the spike can still firmly embed in the bottom timber. It also helps if a helper stands on the top timber as it is being drilled and spiked to hold it in place.
Two questions. What size do you predrill for the rebar? Also, I'm using this method to install a playset on a slope, kind of looks like what was done for your shed. Basically the bottom 4x6 will be buried all around with a couple inches of paver base. There is a 6 inch difference from high end of slope to low end.. What is the best way to anchor and protect against vertical lift? I want to anchor the playset to the top 4x6's, and I want to make sure during high winds it won't lift the those 4x6 timbers out of the ground. I'll be anchoring the first row with rebar, and was considering playset anchors to anchor to the first row for vertical stability as I'm not sure how well the rebar will hold for vertical lift. The other rows of 4x6's will be fixed with 6 or 10 inch black lag screws.. the playset entire weight is 1000lbs, so I'm sure it will windstand most high wind storms, but I live off a field, and get some pretty strong winds during storms. Thanks!
Sound like questions for an engineer, which I'm not, so anyone care to jump in here with some good answers for Jeff?
If the rebar was 5/8-inch we drilled the holes 5/8-inch and used a "mash hammer" (small sledge hammer) to drive them down. I would suggest galvanized spikes and weather resistance lag bolts to help prevent (or slow) corrosion.
@@bobscaping Okay, sounds good, thanks for the tips!
You didn’t put a T on your dead head? What keeps it from sliding out?
We didn't cross our T's *but* we dotted our i's. Seriously though, it didn't seem necessary, as it might with a taller wall that's retaining more soil. The bottom timber was mostly buried, which also provided some holding strength.
At 3:33, I really wish you would have shown the back side of the wall. Did you install any deadmen other than the first row? You only showed the front side, and didn't give a good look at the backside. uhg! Also, on the backside was there fabric at the corner of the shed and the timber to keep soil from being lost? I am trying to do this project myself, that is why I am asking.
We installed deadmen for all except the final two top courses, and it is good to use as many deadmen as possible, especially on taller walls. Some wall builders add crossmembers to the end of their deadmen, creating a 'T' shaped end which gets buried. Not sure we used any landscape fabric between the wall and the shed, but that would not hurt, especially if there is a gap large enough for soil and stone behind the wall to wash out from behind the wall.
@@bobscaping Thank you. This was really helpful. I had the same question. I think we'll need to add the T.
Did you use 3/4" clear rock as your base under your first row, or did you use 0-3/4" with some fines in it for compacting.
2B limestone, commonly used around our Pittsburgh area as concrete sidewalk and driveway base.
Your dead man timbers should be "T" shaped at the end to create more strength. As they are they are useless and will not prevent the wall from pulling away.
You'll see I added a follow-up video of that wall showing no problems, but it would be interesting to stop by again to check up on it. At one wall seminar, I heard a guy say that he nailed old car tires on the end of his deadmen to help them hold!
Yeah, that’s not how you do a “dead man”. It needs another beam parallel to the wall, buried back in behind. With just those beams running perpendicular to the wall, they could potentially pull out. All you have here is the additional friction, holding the wall. If it had a beam fixed parallel, it’d have to pull all that material with it. As said above, your “dead man” need to be “T” shaped. It may be doing just fine, for now. Probably because it’s not getting heavy use. Do this someplace where a car/truck would be driving over it, and you’ll have a failure.
I understand that these type of timbers are pressure treated to prevent rot etc. Is it recommended to treat the timbers so they will remain water resistant? Would that give the timbers a longer life?
Sealing the cut ends might help, once they have dried from their pressure treatment. Some people do it for appearance sake, but most treated wood should dry for several months before it is sealed.
That's going to move man, it's only spiked in to mot.better with concrete with rebar mesh, you could face it with timber if you wanted. If your going to do it - do it well.
phatcat1210 Perhaps you live in a different climate or economy, but this small job was only budgeted for a timber wall. Concrete or masonry would have been too expensive. Most of the walls I have seen "move" in our "freeze-thaw" climate near Pittsburgh, Pa did not have good enough drainage behind them, so we always use a lot of 2b limestone gravel behind a wall to encourage good drainage.
These sorts of walls in our area used to be built out of used railroad ties but the laws and hazards with creosote on residential properties changed that picture, plus they are wicked heavy, so we always use "lifetime" pressure treated 6x6 timbers. Most contractors do not "go the extra mile" and use galvanized spikes while constructing these walls, but we paid the extra cost and often drove further looking for them, to ensure better quality and durability.
+phatcat1210 The project was done well, the wall has not moved.
@@bobscaping Thanks. I was thinking as you are but I do want the Ts.
About how much did this cost? Did you use any rear or just spikes?
Keep in mind that the cost (shown in my comment above) includes commercial labor, so if you are doing your own work with "sweat equity," the cost would be considerably less.
A couple of questions.
1. How deep was the trench?
2. How many inches of gravel base was tamped into the trench.
Rolinjoe As I recall, we put in about 6-inches of compacted gravel base and buried about half of the first timber, so that would amount to a total trench depth of about 9-inches.
Qual é o tipo da Madeira?
Provavelmente pinho que foi tratado com conservante
great video, is that timber tanalised?
Those are pressure-treated timbers from Brookside Lumber in Bethel Park. They tend to have the best quality lumber in our area.
how long is the rebar
Without locating and measuring one, I will guess 24-inches... these were pre-cut rebar purchased at Home Depot. Prior to finding rebar cut to length there, I used to stop at a local concrete supplier and have them cut longer ones to length with a cutting torch.
I'm really sure you can build it yourself. I did this 2 weeks ago thanks to the Woodglut plans.
Should be a very feasible project for most backyard warriors.
@@bobscaping Yeah!
how much did this project cost the homeowner?
+David $2,400.00 included everything: labor, delivery, wall materials, soil fill, seeding and the landscaping project around the shed.
@@bobscaping I wonder what it costs without labour. We are going to DIY. I'm thinking 1k.
How bout a 10 year update?
If I'm out in that area, and the same client lives there, that's entirely possible!
Those timbers look larger than 6”x6”
They are actually a bit smaller: 5-1/2" x 5-1/2" x 8' (the "nominal" size)
@@bobscaping Interesting. Do you think these would hold up longer than railroad ties?
Those treated timbers (rated for "Ground Contact") are the ones most commonly seen and used around western Pennsylvania, and last I read, railroad ties were banned many years ago from use in landscaping, due to their treatment with creosote.
M
NOP next?
Sorry, rebar. Lol
You asked about cost and if we used rebar. The bottom course of timbers was pre-drilled (3 holes per 8-foot timber --1/2-inch diameter) and then 1/2-inch diameter x 2-foot long rebar (from Home Depot) was driven into the ground to anchor those timbers. All the timbers above that bottom course were pre-drilled and secured with galvanized spikes. Total cost for the project including soil fill, seeding and some landscaping work was $2,400.
Thank you so much for answering! I had way underestimated the cost though. Bought a house with a falling down concrete block wall, and hoped this would be cheaper. Looks better, for sure.
Cheaper if you do the labor yourself! I call that "sweat equity."
Completely overlooked the process, waste of time..
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