I am Dutch, I am gay, I am tall. It would be weird to say I am a person with Dutchness, I am a person with gayness, or I am a person with tallness. My autism is just as much an attribute of who I am as those other things, so I am autistic, and use what flows best in a sentence. However, if they're about the same, I'll use autistic over person with autism.
100% agree. Autistic person, because it IS me. Yes I have struggles, but it's an inherent part of who I am as a person, and a lot of things that I love about myself come from it. I also have Hashimotos, which is an autoimmune condition, and that, while having a large impact on my life, is something I have, not something I am. I would still be me if my Hashimotos was miraculously cured, but if my Autistic traits suddenly disappeared, I'm not sure I would be.
Autistic person, I am who I am and those who attempt to “cure” autism or otherwise encourage things along the lines of brainwashing “normal” behavior into peoele or eugenics are terrifying and wrong to do so. violating other human beings in such a horrific way as to try to change the very nature of people as the people they are or elmiate them, we can’t allow this dangerous way of thinking to continue as it leads to lots of trauma already and if continued could be a potential stepping stone towards peoele committing genocidal acts towards us, language is powerful
I started writing stories with that in mind, I'm planning to join them and expand into a whole book one day, it's a lot of work tough I got inspired by 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time'.
It’s so they don’t feel like they have to make an effort to make us comfortable which is kind of impossible because without accommodations it is IMPOSSIBLE for autistic people to feel comfortable in this world
The words of a wise doctor after 15 minutes of debate about what they were going to do with the patient..."Has anyone asked the patient what they want?" Words to live by. It is up to the individual to decide how they wish to introduce themselves.
When I was first learning about autism, I definitely thought people would be mad if I said "autistic" instead of "with autism" because there was this idea that it was somehow rude. It's interesting why people prefer certain kinds of language, and I personally don't care and use "autistic," "with autism," and "on the spectrum" interchangeably because it sounds better than repeating the same thing, I suppose. I do think it's interesting that the debate definitely does arise from the concept of WHAT autism is and why that understanding can greatly influence one's viewpoint on "person-first language."
This is an interesting debate. You see in French there is no other way to say it, then I am autistic. People do not have autism, they are simply autistic. Interesting language difference. I also found it strange that in English we say we "have" autism...like its something that can be treated or cured. Also would love to hear your thoughts on stimming and therapies aimed at especially wiping those behaviours out. I brought in my papers yesterday for a private assessment, year long wait period, but had an interesting stimming experience on my way out. I've never stimmed in such an "autistic" way before. In hindsight I definitely stimmed as a child, but had very abusive parents and so I had to hid and repress behaviours. Yesterday was very liberating and helped my anxiety escape my body, in ways words would not have. 💕
That is brilliant - you can "have" 8 years of age, but not autism! Language differences are certainly very interesting and I'd love to know more about what other languages use. I'm still learning about stimming myself, as so many of my own stims were very subtle and normalised (nail biting, picking, etc). I'll definitely do a video on this in the future though.
Yo Samdy Sam I have very subtle ones that have carried forward as well. But one not so subtle was sucking my thumb until age 16 and rubbing my blanket on my nose, but because I am a girl I guess no one thought of this as autistic. I only stopped because I got work done on my mouth, had mouth guards, etc. In times of great struggle I allow myself to do it for a few minutes, but on weekends as a kid that's all I did from morning til evening.
@@YoSamdySam Here's an idea for a language reform: Make it impossible to derive abstract nouns from adjectives, or vice versa. So that "x's autistic" is the only way to say it in English.
Here's an idea for a language reform: Make it impossible to derive abstract nouns from adjectives, or vice versa. So that "x's autistic" is the only way to say it in English.
My feeling is that if they need to use person-first language to remind themselves that we are people, then they don't see us as people in the first place. And more and more I think I think about identity-first language the same way; "person" should be self-evident and therefore superfluous. I'm not a person with Autism, I'm not an Autistic person - I'm Autistic. In the same way we say that someone is Black, or a redhead, or a Spaniard.
bobobobin' along by the laws of political correctness you aren’t supposed to notice if someone is black or a spaniard. And not redhead if the person identifies as female. And I would just avoid anyone who identifies as “they”. It is the easiest way to avoid being labeled a racist transphobe.
@@puttputt524 huh... you'd think that avoiding anyone who identifies as "they" is exactly the kind of thing a racist transphobe would want to do though, wouldn't you? oh, wait... I think I get it now -- if the racist transphobe doesn't avoid the "they"s out there, they'll get seen for who they are because they won't be able to act in a civil manner because they're such racist transphobic pricks. Is that what you meant? wow, that's some heavy shit. And yeah, adjectives are allowed. As long as they're not used in like a racist transphobic manner.
You pretty much echoed what I put in a post on another video about identity-first vs person-first: I don't feel the need to tell people I'm a *person* - they should _know_ that already.
@@puttputt524 I'm a Black neurodivergent (ND) woman and anyone who ignores that is disrespectful in my eyes. If someone identifies as they/them it's important to respect that. Avoiding just makes it worse
I agree with you. I don't see Autism as an insult, though many neurotypicals see it that way ... particularly the parents of children who are autistic. To me, though, the autism isn't the problem in my life; the fact that I'm expected to be as neurotypical as possible to avoid making NTs uncomfortable is, and existing in a world that is set up for NT people is. Sure, having ASD makes things more difficult sometimes. But it's intrinsically part of who I am and I'm happy for that, because it also makes my world intense and vivid. I like the way I think, the way I see things and the way I experience life. For me, I'm part of a charismatic part of Christianity and unfortunately a lot of people's reaction to my autism is to want to pray to "heal" me of it or to tell me "not to speak that" over myself. Or I'm told not to make that my identity. But as you so eloquently said, to extract the autism from me and want to "heal me" into being allistic is insinuating that I should be healed of being myself. I see it as a rejection of who I am altogether. I look at it this way--I'm a woman, and sometimes being a woman sucks, makes life harder, and is inconvenient for other people: periods (especially with PMDD, which 92% of autistic women have) are horrid, childbirth is painful, boobs are heavy and sweaty, social expectations and experiences can be harrowing and anyone who has to DEAL with me during my PMDD hell week are definitely inconvenienced. But no one's trying to HEAL me of my womanhood or find a cure for it. There are also parts of my human experience that are informed by my gender that are also beautiful ... It's an innate part of who I am. And so is autism.
This is my favorite comment on this thread. I love your analogy. I also love that from almost the moment I self-diagnosed (about a month ago, still waiting for the professional diagnosis), I intuitively understood a lot of things about autism, including how offensive the idea of wanting to "cure" it is, and as I connect more with the autistic community, I find that other people have the same feelings. I'm definitely feeling like I found my tribe.
Thank you for explaining thus so eloquently. I’ve taken a while to get my head around this one because I’ve come from the mental health world where person first is generally important because we do want to separate ourselves from the pathology. I had someone (I was supporting) very angrily explain to a paramedic “you wouldn’t say someone is cancer” when he wanted them to stop saying he was “schizophrenic”. But when it comes to my autism, it’s beginning to make sense that I’ve had it my whole life and it is me, not just something that is part of me that I can pick up and put down at will!
Got into a discussion with someone about how Autism Speaks is a hate group and this came up. Using this video to help explain it. Had to explain "autism parents" in process
I fully agree. especially because of the 'cure' example you are given. I started researching autism for my son. Who I think is autistic. My father has also been diagnosed about 2 years ago. But a lot of it makes sense for me aswell. The big difference in information I found was baffling. Especially on english sites (I`m Dutch myself) the information about autistic kids and the information for adults is different. I don`t know how many sites I have seen who have talked about treatment or eating broccoli to 'cure' autism. While information on adults is much more about understanding what it really means for an autistic person. If my son does happen to have autism I don`t want to know how to get it out of him. He IS autistic. It is part of him. It is what makes him his amazing self. I want to learn what I can do to understand him better. Why I need to do some things differently with him than with my daughter who most likely is not autistic. So I can find the balans for raising them the same way, but with different approaches. Now if we both turn out to be autistic I get that it will be easier for me to understand than it is for neurotypical people. It is not a parents job to make their kids the best mainstream person. It it their job to help their kids be the best that they can be with what they have. People that talk about curing really frustrate me.
I had a job working with autistic kids because I thought I would be able to give them the help I wish I had gotten when I was younger. During the training, they told us multiple times to always use people first language because "these children are still people and their autism doesn't define them." As an autistic person myself, I remember being so uncomfortable when they said this because like yeah I'm a person and me saying I'm autistic shouldn't change that?? Idk if this comment actually makes sense, but yeah
Christina Y. I recently finished teacher credentialing, and obviously work with a number of autistic kids. Person first language is all bullshit for overly pretentious people. I think of myself as autistic, and honestly life is too short and painful to waste time or energy deciding what you can and can not say. I teach all my students that way. Most educators would disagree with me on this. But I think it is important for people to say what they mean and mean what they say.
Ditto! I landed in the middle of this argument (?) shortly after I was diagnosed two years ago (Bleedin' 'eck! *Only* two years ago! :O ). Me? I go with "I'm Autistic"; not "I'm an Autistic person". Like you, I see Autism as an intrinsic - inseparable - part of *me*. (Leave my brain alone; it's how I function!!!)
Just as well there isn't an "autism" section of the brain that they could surgically remove. Yes, in everyday language I would be most likely to say "I'm autistic" but would refer to "autistic people" in general because as much as I love the word "autist" I can never say it with a straight face.
@@YoSamdySam Oh yeah! If they could just remove that _one tiny bit_ that's 'wrong', it would be done as soon as possible. :-( LOL... indeed, 'autist' just doesn't *sound* right, when I say it. :D
On a superficial level I can’t say it bothers me how it’s said. I wouldn’t take offence if someone said it either way, as long as I couldn’t detect derogatory overtones to their manner or voice. But as someone who likes words to have specific meanings in order to make speech consistently understandable, I do, on a deeper level, feel like I will make an effort to use the term I feel best represents what I mean. I’m still not all on board with Autism being completely fabulous, and I apologize to those who are able to be so self-accepting, it is truly just my hating of my personal faults here. I have major, “it’s ok for others, it’s understandable for others, but it’s unacceptable for me” to behave in certain ways issues. So the less awesome aspects of autism, the meltdowns, shutdowns, inability to make myself do certain things, if I could cure those things I would definitely do it. To also lose the nicer aspects of my autism though? I don’t know. I still am having trouble ascertaining what those are and how they are useful in anyway when the other parts make it nearly impossible to show the good bits. I’ll get there some day. But back on topic... 🙄... I do think I’d find it annoying to be pieced out, dissected in a way by the person first phrasing. Just as I identify as an artist, I AM an artist, I can not be me without being an artist in some way,I am not a blank person who does art. So too with autism, really. It, for better or worse, IS me. I would not be ME without it, probably even more so than being an artist. I was autistic without trying, I had to practice to be a good artist! I don’t feel the same about the depression or even the anxiety. I got those, most likely, from feeling not accepted, trying so hard, and still failing, to not ‘be weird.’ They are not part of what I’ve always felt was a pretty positive natural personality, those I have because they poisoned me, they weren’t part of me and will never define me. Take that crazy world! End rant. 🎤 drop😝
Im in a similar pickle. But I can't convince myself to this whole identity first thing. I don't even admit I'm on spectrum, unless its not absolutley neccesary. And it's not that I don't accept myslef, I really do, I used to not to, I was in long term denial, especially about alexythynic aspect of my diagnosis, but then I came to therms with the fact that this is what I'm working with, and there's that, so wishing it would be different would be just silly. I started to think how can I adapt in a way that would make me feel comfortable with myself. I still have days tho, when I wish I would be normal. I'm just being honest here, there are days when I wish I was more stupid, but more relatable, or so I could relate more. Would I give up the goods? I don't know. The goods are what defines me to an extent - my interests, my passions, my pattern way of thinking. Thats who I am, if I wouldnt be able to think the way I do, then I don't know who I would be any longer, but than again I might have some other skills that I'm missing now and that would define me then. It's a 50/50 for me. Bottom line for me is that being autistic is not my identity. It just not. I prefer to think thay there are other things that define me as a person more than that. But then again - I don't quite understand this whole "community" thing , so maybe for some it serves a purpuse of fiding just that.
I have a love/hate relationship being autistic. The sensory overloads are always annoying but I like being able to think in great detail. Some people seem miserable, others seem okay with being autistic (as am I) but I don't agree with people trying to "cure" it because they think it is undoubtedly a disease. The autistic brain is just wired differently which means a different way of thinking from the neurotypical. I like being different because it keeps things interesting!
I’m autistic and have a huge problem with organizations for autistics or autistic magazines deliberately always says person with autism. Why have all those things if we’re not even going to acknowledge who we are?! I also find it harder and harder that almost every scientist and educator in the field are neurotypical.
The same debates exist in the Dyslexia community where a lot of educators call us people or children with dyslexia rather than than dyslexic as if a way of thinking can be cured. As an Autistic and Dyslexic academic I view both as part of my identity not something to be fixed or removed.
Thank you! Over the past decade, I’ve come to ever greater suspicions that autism is the larger umbrella to encompass this slew of labels I constantly have to explain to people, or never get the chance to explain because I’m “just weird-door slam.” In my rabbit-holing research, I could never explain why I was so vehemently and viscerally incensed by such a positively intentioned thing as acknowledging that this is a person we’re encountering, not a walking, breathing disease/disorder/etc. It should feel honoring and welcoming. To me, it doesn’t. You’ve put it into words why. I’ve never heard anybody get up in arms about putting “awesome, wonderful or amazing” first. If someone likes person-first for themselves because it feels better, I’m thrilled to use it for them. For me? If you wouldn’t PC tiptoe around singing “brown-eyed girl” to/about me because putting girl second is demeaning to my status as a person, then that can be your mode of operation around all my gazillion divergent labels. Thank youuuuuuu for another wonderful video that speaks what I feel.
"Person with autism/who has autism", makes it sound like it's something I physically carry around with me in my arms and can set down, rather than it just being a part of who I am
I like "autism isn't a label, its an identity." Person-first makes sense with illnesses but autism is not an illness, its part of who we are. We dont say 'he is a person with irishness' we say 'he is irish'
We may not say Bob is a person with Irishness, but we could say Bob is a person from Ireland. I say I’m a person from Sweden, rather than a Swede, and I also say I’m a person with autism rather than an autistic person.
@@the_5th_night that's extremely odd phrasing in English, we'd always refer to people are "Irish" or "a Swede", not a "person from Sweden", it sound very odd and unnatural.
I am Autistic, an Autistic, or an Autistic Person. I object to Person with Autism for the same reasons you do; it implies a condition that can be changed. Autist however, I find a little clumsy - It lacks mouth appeal.
as a person that uses dissociation to deal with pretty much everything. it is not until I can truly feel that I am "said thing" that I begin to accept myself for the beautifully quirky person that i am. I am neurodiverse, that does not mean that I suffer from being stupid. that has taken me 32 years to learn to accept.
I'm definitely "identity first" rather than "person first" on this matter. I haven't been *officially* diagnosed myself but it's fairly clear that I'm on the spectrum and one of my sons has been diagnosed as on the spectrum (along with ADHD and ODD) and I use identity first language. I do not see autism as a disease and it is not something that is separate from the identity of the autistic person concerned - it's not appropriate to act like it's akin to AIDS or any other communicable disease. You can contract HIV, you can't contract autism - despite what the anti-vaxxers claim.
It really enrages me when people say someone “has autism” as if it’s a disease or mental health problem like anxiety. It’s a neurotype, its like you don’t say a female “has a woman” she is a woman
I refer to myself as autistic rather than a person with autism. I view being autistic as part of my identity and how my brain is wired. I’m autistic and that doesn’t make me less of a person. I’m autistic, bisexual, a woman, a Satanist. These are all part of my identity.
I agree, it is part of our identity. I would never say "that my brain is wired differently" though. It sounds somehow negative to me. We just experience things in a different way. And I would never want to miss this part of my identity.
' Talking around the word you really want to say makes it sound like an insult or a slur. Or, otherwise, something to be ashamed of and to be avoided as much as possible. '
I am from the Bay Area, California and we don’t even really have the autism label out here. There is a distinct lack of awareness about autism, but I have to say it is a really good thing because there is less judgement of general quirkiness. There is an underground autism cult, mostly rabid Dr. Temple Grandin fans who learn about their autism late in life. On an interesting side note, autism can be so impossible to quantify that differences can essentially be cultural and personality related. You can follow an unusually rigid schedule, be amazing at mathematics and expect perfection from everyone around you and just be culturally Asian. The underachieving prodigal child is the other side of the same coin.
Yes, I felt more comfortable visiting Europe than I do in the United States, since I didn't have to constantly smile like a lunatic, there. I'm sure that's just one aspect, though. Other aspects of the various cultures made things more difficult, too. Interesting to think about.
I think everyone on the spectrum has different preferences but I personally like referring to myself as "being autistic". It resembles the fact that it's something that's a fundamental part of my identity and also "having autism" sounds like it's something that I can turn off and I feel like it has more of a negative connotation.
With me, I don't care either way except I HATE neurotypicals "correcting" autistic people on using the "correct" language, as if they know better than us. ESPECIALLY if it's a professional working with children.
I am not native speaker so keep in mind that sometimes people may use it because don't know how other say something in that language. But i get that this is not the case you talking about.
@@Jaiunsolicited I'm autistic. The way I see it is that "I am autistic" is an identity (much like "I am gay" (you wouldn't say "I have gayness" to refer to your identity)), whereas "I have autism" sounds like you are treating it like a disease or an illness (hence why we say "I have cancer" and not "I am cancer"). When comparing "I am cancer" to "I have cancer", it should be easy enough to see how different "I am autistic" and "I have autism" are. Long story short: I am autistic - an identity I have autism - more like a curable disease (autism is neither curable nor a disease) - it also sounds like it is a temporary condition. Autism is lifelong. I hope this helps you.
I am me and I'm an autist. Some would prefer that I say: "I am me and I've got autisme" like if it's something that can be cured or is needed to find a cure for. I sometimes feel like Stan Lee's X-men, people want them to be cured from being mutants, but it what make them the X-men and superheroes and sometimes supervillains. Professor X: "Mutants. Since the discovery of their existence they have been regarded with fear, suspicion, often hatred. Across the planet, debate rages. Are mutants the next link in the evolutionary chain or simply a new species of humanity fighting for their share of the world? Either way it is a historical fact: Sharing the world has never been humanity's defining attribute." An I the only one who sometimes switches out the "Mutant" part of that quote out with "Autists"?
Tbh when it comes to health things I prefer “identify-first” e.g. “diabetic patient” because I want my doctors to take a scientific approach to my care and not worry about the other aspects of me
'... because person-first language separates the person from.the condition ( by definition ) ... it opens the door to treatments, cures or worse. What's next? Gene-editing to eliminate autism ? That's not just a bad dream, you know. It's already started. '
We don't say a person with neurotypicality .We say Neurotypical so why not saying Autistic or Neurodiverse? Its obvious we are all people .I think we don't need to clarify that an Autistic person is indeed a person .Someone has an Autistic child not a child with autism. Im white not a person with whiteness because its a race... same with Autism .Im Autistic and not a person with autism because its a brain type.
Ive debated this in my own mind. Being autistic is very much a part of me. It literally is what makes up who I am. It’s not something I have like as though I can just give it up. That being said I have this really far future idea that the entirety of being autistic is going to totally change in the world. To me, autistic people are a type of different human altogether, a more advanced one in my personal opinion. The gifts we have are the direction humanity should be moving in. Do I sound a little autism supremacist? Maybe... lol I just consider us more advanced lol
To me, being (or not being) autistic is just part of our natural biodiversity as a species. As social creatures by nature, it only makes sense to me that there might be differences in how we would socialize. As I understand it, neurotypicals are happy just talking to people, but autists prefer to speak at greater length with only a few people (this being general, everyone is different after all). It seems no different to me than differences in our individual senses or natural appearance
As an ally, what can I do to better support autistic people? I can see that you've been excluded from the conversation about yourselves which you should be leading. I'd would like to know what I can do to help you as a socially disadvantaged group, given that the public perception of autism and the large autism-focised organizations have become part of the problem, not the solution.
I prefer "having" autism tbh. I am autistic feels like I'm saying that autism is all there is to me. Having autism feels more like it's a part of me, just like my body parts and stuff.
I don't think I like either, I simply say to people (If I have to) I was diagnosed with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder which is different to that of "person with Autism" (doesn't make any sense) and "Autistic person" which sounds 'very disabled' (referring to people that have Autism rather than people who have Aspergers Syndrome or that who are 'on the spectrum') people who are full blown Autistic (i.e. non-verbal) should be referred to as an 'Autistic person' [Even though that I may have just contradicted myself it is very late at the time of typing this response so I'm very tired] :(
I have autism, and quite frankly "autistic" fills me with disgust, because it's associated with people who oppose the discovery of a cure for or prevention of autism.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
If you are #actuallyautistic, which do you prefer?
I am Dutch, I am gay, I am tall. It would be weird to say I am a person with Dutchness, I am a person with gayness, or I am a person with tallness. My autism is just as much an attribute of who I am as those other things, so I am autistic, and use what flows best in a sentence. However, if they're about the same, I'll use autistic over person with autism.
Autistic adult or autistic person is fine. For my other disability, person with epilepsy over epileptic person.
100% agree. Autistic person, because it IS me. Yes I have struggles, but it's an inherent part of who I am as a person, and a lot of things that I love about myself come from it. I also have Hashimotos, which is an autoimmune condition, and that, while having a large impact on my life, is something I have, not something I am. I would still be me if my Hashimotos was miraculously cured, but if my Autistic traits suddenly disappeared, I'm not sure I would be.
Don’t care!
Autistic person, I am who I am and those who attempt to “cure” autism or otherwise encourage things along the lines of brainwashing “normal” behavior into peoele or eugenics are terrifying and wrong to do so.
violating other human beings in such a horrific way as to try to change the very nature of people as the people they are or elmiate them, we can’t allow this dangerous way of thinking to continue as it leads to lots of trauma already and if continued could be a potential stepping stone towards peoele committing genocidal acts towards us, language is powerful
I’m autistic and I’m seriously worried about how much some people want to cure us and erase our identities
Yep... Part of the reason I started making these videos.
Same
I started writing stories with that in mind, I'm planning to join them and expand into a whole book one day, it's a lot of work tough
I got inspired by 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time'.
It’s so they don’t feel like they have to make an effort to make us comfortable which is kind of impossible because without accommodations it is IMPOSSIBLE for autistic people to feel comfortable in this world
The words of a wise doctor after 15 minutes of debate about what they were going to do with the patient..."Has anyone asked the patient what they want?" Words to live by. It is up to the individual to decide how they wish to introduce themselves.
YES EXACTLY
I prefer to be referred to as AUTISTIC.
I am not ashamed of being autistic...... in fact I am proud to be AUTISTIC.
When I was first learning about autism, I definitely thought people would be mad if I said "autistic" instead of "with autism" because there was this idea that it was somehow rude. It's interesting why people prefer certain kinds of language, and I personally don't care and use "autistic," "with autism," and "on the spectrum" interchangeably because it sounds better than repeating the same thing, I suppose. I do think it's interesting that the debate definitely does arise from the concept of WHAT autism is and why that understanding can greatly influence one's viewpoint on "person-first language."
Yeah, it's not rude, the only reason people think it is unchallenged ableist assumptions.
I’ve never realised how passionate I was about this until I got into a whole rant to my mum about it.
This is an interesting debate. You see in French there is no other way to say it, then I am autistic. People do not have autism, they are simply autistic. Interesting language difference. I also found it strange that in English we say we "have" autism...like its something that can be treated or cured. Also would love to hear your thoughts on stimming and therapies aimed at especially wiping those behaviours out. I brought in my papers yesterday for a private assessment, year long wait period, but had an interesting stimming experience on my way out. I've never stimmed in such an "autistic" way before. In hindsight I definitely stimmed as a child, but had very abusive parents and so I had to hid and repress behaviours. Yesterday was very liberating and helped my anxiety escape my body, in ways words would not have. 💕
That is brilliant - you can "have" 8 years of age, but not autism! Language differences are certainly very interesting and I'd love to know more about what other languages use.
I'm still learning about stimming myself, as so many of my own stims were very subtle and normalised (nail biting, picking, etc). I'll definitely do a video on this in the future though.
Yo Samdy Sam I have very subtle ones that have carried forward as well. But one not so subtle was sucking my thumb until age 16 and rubbing my blanket on my nose, but because I am a girl I guess no one thought of this as autistic. I only stopped because I got work done on my mouth, had mouth guards, etc. In times of great struggle I allow myself to do it for a few minutes, but on weekends as a kid that's all I did from morning til evening.
Yo Samdy Sam which is why yesterday was so surprising to me!
@@YoSamdySam Here's an idea for a language reform: Make it impossible to derive abstract nouns from adjectives, or vice versa. So that "x's autistic" is the only way to say it in English.
Here's an idea for a language reform: Make it impossible to derive abstract nouns from adjectives, or vice versa. So that "x's autistic" is the only way to say it in English.
My feeling is that if they need to use person-first language to remind themselves that we are people, then they don't see us as people in the first place. And more and more I think I think about identity-first language the same way; "person" should be self-evident and therefore superfluous. I'm not a person with Autism, I'm not an Autistic person - I'm Autistic. In the same way we say that someone is Black, or a redhead, or a Spaniard.
I was thinking the exact same thing about the part "remind themselves that we are people".
bobobobin' along by the laws of political correctness you aren’t supposed to notice if someone is black or a spaniard. And not redhead if the person identifies as female.
And I would just avoid anyone who identifies as “they”. It is the easiest way to avoid being labeled a racist transphobe.
@@puttputt524 huh... you'd think that avoiding anyone who identifies as "they" is exactly the kind of thing a racist transphobe would want to do though, wouldn't you? oh, wait... I think I get it now -- if the racist transphobe doesn't avoid the "they"s out there, they'll get seen for who they are because they won't be able to act in a civil manner because they're such racist transphobic pricks. Is that what you meant? wow, that's some heavy shit.
And yeah, adjectives are allowed. As long as they're not used in like a racist transphobic manner.
You pretty much echoed what I put in a post on another video about identity-first vs person-first: I don't feel the need to tell people I'm a *person* - they should _know_ that already.
@@puttputt524 I'm a Black neurodivergent (ND) woman and anyone who ignores that is disrespectful in my eyes.
If someone identifies as they/them it's important to respect that. Avoiding just makes it worse
I agree with you. I don't see Autism as an insult, though many neurotypicals see it that way ... particularly the parents of children who are autistic. To me, though, the autism isn't the problem in my life; the fact that I'm expected to be as neurotypical as possible to avoid making NTs uncomfortable is, and existing in a world that is set up for NT people is. Sure, having ASD makes things more difficult sometimes. But it's intrinsically part of who I am and I'm happy for that, because it also makes my world intense and vivid. I like the way I think, the way I see things and the way I experience life. For me, I'm part of a charismatic part of Christianity and unfortunately a lot of people's reaction to my autism is to want to pray to "heal" me of it or to tell me "not to speak that" over myself. Or I'm told not to make that my identity. But as you so eloquently said, to extract the autism from me and want to "heal me" into being allistic is insinuating that I should be healed of being myself. I see it as a rejection of who I am altogether. I look at it this way--I'm a woman, and sometimes being a woman sucks, makes life harder, and is inconvenient for other people: periods (especially with PMDD, which 92% of autistic women have) are horrid, childbirth is painful, boobs are heavy and sweaty, social expectations and experiences can be harrowing and anyone who has to DEAL with me during my PMDD hell week are definitely inconvenienced. But no one's trying to HEAL me of my womanhood or find a cure for it. There are also parts of my human experience that are informed by my gender that are also beautiful ... It's an innate part of who I am. And so is autism.
This is my favorite comment on this thread. I love your analogy. I also love that from almost the moment I self-diagnosed (about a month ago, still waiting for the professional diagnosis), I intuitively understood a lot of things about autism, including how offensive the idea of wanting to "cure" it is, and as I connect more with the autistic community, I find that other people have the same feelings. I'm definitely feeling like I found my tribe.
Thank you for explaining thus so eloquently. I’ve taken a while to get my head around this one because I’ve come from the mental health world where person first is generally important because we do want to separate ourselves from the pathology. I had someone (I was supporting) very angrily explain to a paramedic “you wouldn’t say someone is cancer” when he wanted them to stop saying he was “schizophrenic”. But when it comes to my autism, it’s beginning to make sense that I’ve had it my whole life and it is me, not just something that is part of me that I can pick up and put down at will!
Got into a discussion with someone about how Autism Speaks is a hate group and this came up. Using this video to help explain it. Had to explain "autism parents" in process
I fully agree. especially because of the 'cure' example you are given. I started researching autism for my son. Who I think is autistic. My father has also been diagnosed about 2 years ago. But a lot of it makes sense for me aswell. The big difference in information I found was baffling. Especially on english sites (I`m Dutch myself) the information about autistic kids and the information for adults is different. I don`t know how many sites I have seen who have talked about treatment or eating broccoli to 'cure' autism. While information on adults is much more about understanding what it really means for an autistic person. If my son does happen to have autism I don`t want to know how to get it out of him. He IS autistic. It is part of him. It is what makes him his amazing self. I want to learn what I can do to understand him better. Why I need to do some things differently with him than with my daughter who most likely is not autistic. So I can find the balans for raising them the same way, but with different approaches. Now if we both turn out to be autistic I get that it will be easier for me to understand than it is for neurotypical people. It is not a parents job to make their kids the best mainstream person. It it their job to help their kids be the best that they can be with what they have. People that talk about curing really frustrate me.
I had a job working with autistic kids because I thought I would be able to give them the help I wish I had gotten when I was younger. During the training, they told us multiple times to always use people first language because "these children are still people and their autism doesn't define them." As an autistic person myself, I remember being so uncomfortable when they said this because like yeah I'm a person and me saying I'm autistic shouldn't change that?? Idk if this comment actually makes sense, but yeah
Christina Y. I recently finished teacher credentialing, and obviously work with a number of autistic kids.
Person first language is all bullshit for overly pretentious people. I think of myself as autistic, and honestly life is too short and painful to waste time or energy deciding what you can and can not say.
I teach all my students that way. Most educators would disagree with me on this. But I think it is important for people to say what they mean and mean what they say.
I’m a person yes, but my autism DOES define me, personally. Bc it is me, and that’s why pfl annoys me so much
It just shows how they think.
It must have been really frustrating to work with who I’m guessing were neurotypical people telling you as an autistic person this
Ya know....idk why these people never bother to ask the individuals what they want
Ditto! I landed in the middle of this argument (?) shortly after I was diagnosed two years ago (Bleedin' 'eck! *Only* two years ago! :O ).
Me? I go with "I'm Autistic"; not "I'm an Autistic person".
Like you, I see Autism as an intrinsic - inseparable - part of *me*. (Leave my brain alone; it's how I function!!!)
Just as well there isn't an "autism" section of the brain that they could surgically remove.
Yes, in everyday language I would be most likely to say "I'm autistic" but would refer to "autistic people" in general because as much as I love the word "autist" I can never say it with a straight face.
@@YoSamdySam Oh yeah! If they could just remove that _one tiny bit_ that's 'wrong', it would be done as soon as possible. :-(
LOL... indeed, 'autist' just doesn't *sound* right, when I say it. :D
On a superficial level I can’t say it bothers me how it’s said. I wouldn’t take offence if someone said it either way, as long as I couldn’t detect derogatory overtones to their manner or voice. But as someone who likes words to have specific meanings in order to make speech consistently understandable, I do, on a deeper level, feel like I will make an effort to use the term I feel best represents what I mean. I’m still not all on board with Autism being completely fabulous, and I apologize to those who are able to be so self-accepting, it is truly just my hating of my personal faults here. I have major, “it’s ok for others, it’s understandable for others, but it’s unacceptable for me” to behave in certain ways issues. So the less awesome aspects of autism, the meltdowns, shutdowns, inability to make myself do certain things, if I could cure those things I would definitely do it. To also lose the nicer aspects of my autism though? I don’t know. I still am having trouble ascertaining what those are and how they are useful in anyway when the other parts make it nearly impossible to show the good bits. I’ll get there some day.
But back on topic... 🙄... I do think I’d find it annoying to be pieced out, dissected in a way by the person first phrasing. Just as I identify as an artist, I AM an artist, I can not be me without being an artist in some way,I am not a blank person who does art. So too with autism, really. It, for better or worse, IS me. I would not be ME without it, probably even more so than being an artist. I was autistic without trying, I had to practice to be a good artist! I don’t feel the same about the depression or even the anxiety. I got those, most likely, from feeling not accepted, trying so hard, and still failing, to not ‘be weird.’ They are not part of what I’ve always felt was a pretty positive natural personality, those I have because they poisoned me, they weren’t part of me and will never define me. Take that crazy world! End rant. 🎤 drop😝
Also going through a similar thing, and trying to learn to accept myself. This channel has been helping a lot in that.
Im in a similar pickle.
But I can't convince myself to this whole identity first thing. I don't even admit I'm on spectrum, unless its not absolutley neccesary. And it's not that I don't accept myslef, I really do, I used to not to, I was in long term denial, especially about alexythynic aspect of my diagnosis, but then I came to therms with the fact that this is what I'm working with, and there's that, so wishing it would be different would be just silly. I started to think how can I adapt in a way that would make me feel comfortable with myself.
I still have days tho, when I wish I would be normal. I'm just being honest here, there are days when I wish I was more stupid, but more relatable, or so I could relate more.
Would I give up the goods? I don't know. The goods are what defines me to an extent - my interests, my passions, my pattern way of thinking. Thats who I am, if I wouldnt be able to think the way I do, then I don't know who I would be any longer, but than again I might have some other skills that I'm missing now and that would define me then. It's a 50/50 for me.
Bottom line for me is that being autistic is not my identity. It just not. I prefer to think thay there are other things that define me as a person more than that.
But then again - I don't quite understand this whole "community" thing , so maybe for some it serves a purpuse of fiding just that.
I have a love/hate relationship being autistic. The sensory overloads are always annoying but I like being able to think in great detail. Some people seem miserable, others seem okay with being autistic (as am I) but I don't agree with people trying to "cure" it because they think it is undoubtedly a disease. The autistic brain is just wired differently which means a different way of thinking from the neurotypical. I like being different because it keeps things interesting!
Im an autistic person, I don't carry it around in my bag. I can't leave it at home, the autism is me, i am it.
"Gene-editing to eliminate autism" ugh, I visibly cringed when I heard that cuz of the presence of the CRISPR gene-editing technology 😖
I’m autistic and have a huge problem with organizations for autistics or autistic magazines deliberately always says person with autism. Why have all those things if we’re not even going to acknowledge who we are?! I also find it harder and harder that almost every scientist and educator in the field are neurotypical.
The same debates exist in the Dyslexia community where a lot of educators call us people or children with dyslexia rather than than dyslexic as if a way of thinking can be cured. As an Autistic and Dyslexic academic I view both as part of my identity not something to be fixed or removed.
Thank you! Over the past decade, I’ve come to ever greater suspicions that autism is the larger umbrella to encompass this slew of labels I constantly have to explain to people, or never get the chance to explain because I’m “just weird-door slam.” In my rabbit-holing research, I could never explain why I was so vehemently and viscerally incensed by such a positively intentioned thing as acknowledging that this is a person we’re encountering, not a walking, breathing disease/disorder/etc. It should feel honoring and welcoming. To me, it doesn’t. You’ve put it into words why. I’ve never heard anybody get up in arms about putting “awesome, wonderful or amazing” first. If someone likes person-first for themselves because it feels better, I’m thrilled to use it for them. For me? If you wouldn’t PC tiptoe around singing “brown-eyed girl” to/about me because putting girl second is demeaning to my status as a person, then that can be your mode of operation around all my gazillion divergent labels. Thank youuuuuuu for another wonderful video that speaks what I feel.
"Person with autism/who has autism", makes it sound like it's something I physically carry around with me in my arms and can set down, rather than it just being a part of who I am
Whenever I watch your videos, I just want to give you a big hug.
I like "autism isn't a label, its an identity." Person-first makes sense with illnesses but autism is not an illness, its part of who we are. We dont say 'he is a person with irishness' we say 'he is irish'
We may not say Bob is a person with Irishness, but we could say Bob is a person from Ireland. I say I’m a person from Sweden, rather than a Swede, and I also say I’m a person with autism rather than an autistic person.
@@the_5th_night that's extremely odd phrasing in English, we'd always refer to people are "Irish" or "a Swede", not a "person from Sweden", it sound very odd and unnatural.
I am Autistic, an Autistic, or an Autistic Person. I object to Person with Autism for the same reasons you do; it implies a condition that can be changed.
Autist however, I find a little clumsy - It lacks mouth appeal.
I love the discussion here, Sam, but most of all I love the pineapple shirt!
I´m autistic. It sounds so much better to me
as a person that uses dissociation to deal with pretty much everything. it is not until I can truly feel that I am "said thing" that I begin to accept myself for the beautifully quirky person that i am. I am neurodiverse, that does not mean that I suffer from being stupid. that has taken me 32 years to learn to accept.
I'm definitely "identity first" rather than "person first" on this matter. I haven't been *officially* diagnosed myself but it's fairly clear that I'm on the spectrum and one of my sons has been diagnosed as on the spectrum (along with ADHD and ODD) and I use identity first language.
I do not see autism as a disease and it is not something that is separate from the identity of the autistic person concerned - it's not appropriate to act like it's akin to AIDS or any other communicable disease. You can contract HIV, you can't contract autism - despite what the anti-vaxxers claim.
It really enrages me when people say someone “has autism” as if it’s a disease or mental health problem like anxiety. It’s a neurotype, its like you don’t say a female “has a woman” she is a woman
I refer to myself as autistic rather than a person with autism. I view being autistic as part of my identity and how my brain is wired. I’m autistic and that doesn’t make me less of a person. I’m autistic, bisexual, a woman, a Satanist. These are all part of my identity.
I agree, it is part of our identity. I would never say "that my brain is wired differently" though. It sounds somehow negative to me. We just experience things in a different way. And I would never want to miss this part of my identity.
@@p.m.5141 our brains literally are wired different though, they've shown this in brain scans and viewing neurons under the microscope.
Very well considered. Couldn't agree more and really want your shirt btw!
People don't get how I can relate nearly everything I do to identifying as autistic... And that annoys me a lot
' Talking around the word you really want to say makes it sound like an insult or a slur. Or, otherwise, something to be ashamed of and to be avoided as much as possible. '
I so agree with you. Thank you.
I don't understand why people don't see that both ways of saying it mean the exact same thing. Like saying "I have blue eyes" or "my eyes are blue"
It isn't in this case, and there are many reasons for it, but every individual should be allowed to decide how they want to be reffered to
Very insightful. I will be more conscious of this in the future.
I am from the Bay Area, California and we don’t even really have the autism label out here.
There is a distinct lack of awareness about autism, but I have to say it is a really good thing because there is less judgement of general quirkiness. There is an underground autism cult, mostly rabid Dr. Temple Grandin fans who learn about their autism late in life.
On an interesting side note, autism can be so impossible to quantify that differences can essentially be cultural and personality related. You can follow an unusually rigid schedule, be amazing at mathematics and expect perfection from everyone around you and just be culturally Asian. The underachieving prodigal child is the other side of the same coin.
Yes, I felt more comfortable visiting Europe than I do in the United States, since I didn't have to constantly smile like a lunatic, there. I'm sure that's just one aspect, though. Other aspects of the various cultures made things more difficult, too. Interesting to think about.
I see what you did there, ending with every part of speech. Cool.
I think everyone on the spectrum has different preferences but I personally like referring to myself as "being autistic". It resembles the fact that it's something that's a fundamental part of my identity and also "having autism" sounds like it's something that I can turn off and I feel like it has more of a negative connotation.
I don't give a crap what people call me as long as they mean well. :)
With me, I don't care either way except I HATE neurotypicals "correcting" autistic people on using the "correct" language, as if they know better than us. ESPECIALLY if it's a professional working with children.
YESSSSSSSS!
I am not native speaker so keep in mind that sometimes people may use it because don't know how other say something in that language. But i get that this is not the case you talking about.
' Autism doesn't define me - it is me. '
I concur. I am autistic. I don't "have" autism.
Huh? What’s the difference.
I am white i don't have whiteness .
@@QlueDuPlessis that’s a physical characteristic though not something that you were born with that has no real medical explanation
@@Jaiunsolicited I'm autistic. The way I see it is that "I am autistic" is an identity (much like "I am gay" (you wouldn't say "I have gayness" to refer to your identity)), whereas "I have autism" sounds like you are treating it like a disease or an illness (hence why we say "I have cancer" and not "I am cancer"). When comparing "I am cancer" to "I have cancer", it should be easy enough to see how different "I am autistic" and "I have autism" are.
Long story short:
I am autistic - an identity
I have autism - more like a curable disease (autism is neither curable nor a disease) - it also sounds like it is a temporary condition. Autism is lifelong.
I hope this helps you.
@@liveyouryoga I don't know. I haven't really thought about it. Why?
I am me and I'm an autist. Some would prefer that I say: "I am me and I've got autisme" like if it's something that can be cured or is needed to find a cure for. I sometimes feel like Stan Lee's X-men, people want them to be cured from being mutants, but it what make them the X-men and superheroes and sometimes supervillains.
Professor X: "Mutants. Since the discovery of their existence they have been regarded with fear, suspicion, often hatred. Across the planet, debate rages. Are mutants the next link in the evolutionary chain or simply a new species of humanity fighting for their share of the world? Either way it is a historical fact: Sharing the world has never been humanity's defining attribute."
An I the only one who sometimes switches out the "Mutant" part of that quote out with "Autists"?
Tbh when it comes to health things I prefer “identify-first” e.g. “diabetic patient” because I want my doctors to take a scientific approach to my care and not worry about the other aspects of me
This is great 👍
I agree.
Very funny because it's so right for me. Can you be our leader. "If you have to live in this head" Ha
'... because person-first language separates the person from.the condition ( by definition ) ... it opens the door to treatments, cures or worse. What's next? Gene-editing to eliminate autism ? That's not just a bad dream, you know. It's already started. '
We don't say a person with neurotypicality .We say Neurotypical so why not saying Autistic or Neurodiverse? Its obvious we are all people .I think we don't need to clarify that an Autistic person is indeed a person .Someone has an Autistic child not a child with autism. Im white not a person with whiteness because its a race... same with Autism .Im Autistic and not a person with autism because its a brain type.
👏👏👏👏 excellent points
Ive debated this in my own mind. Being autistic is very much a part of me. It literally is what makes up who I am. It’s not something I have like as though I can just give it up. That being said I have this really far future idea that the entirety of being autistic is going to totally change in the world. To me, autistic people are a type of different human altogether, a more advanced one in my personal opinion. The gifts we have are the direction humanity should be moving in. Do I sound a little autism supremacist? Maybe... lol I just consider us more advanced lol
To me, being (or not being) autistic is just part of our natural biodiversity as a species. As social creatures by nature, it only makes sense to me that there might be differences in how we would socialize. As I understand it, neurotypicals are happy just talking to people, but autists prefer to speak at greater length with only a few people (this being general, everyone is different after all). It seems no different to me than differences in our individual senses or natural appearance
👏👏👏👏👏💖💖💖💖
As an ally, what can I do to better support autistic people? I can see that you've been excluded from the conversation about yourselves which you should be leading. I'd would like to know what I can do to help you as a socially disadvantaged group, given that the public perception of autism and the large autism-focised organizations have become part of the problem, not the solution.
I prefer "having" autism tbh. I am autistic feels like I'm saying that autism is all there is to me. Having autism feels more like it's a part of me, just like my body parts and stuff.
Autism isn't the same as those conditions
I don't think I like either, I simply say to people (If I have to) I was diagnosed with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder which is different to that of "person with Autism" (doesn't make any sense) and "Autistic person" which sounds 'very disabled' (referring to people that have Autism rather than people who have Aspergers Syndrome or that who are 'on the spectrum') people who are full blown Autistic (i.e. non-verbal) should be referred to as an 'Autistic person' [Even though that I may have just contradicted myself it is very late at the time of typing this response so I'm very tired] :(
Philip Blundell I refer to myself as an Aspie rather than autistic as I don’t have all the intellectual delays of full blown autism.
@@Dancestar1981 autism has been redefined years ago, intellectual delays are no longer part of the criteria.
I have autism, and quite frankly "autistic" fills me with disgust, because it's associated with people who oppose the discovery of a cure for or prevention of autism.
There will never be a cure.