David Brooks on Facing “Brutalizing Times” with “Defiant Humanism” | Amanpour and Company
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- In his new book "How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen," David Brooks asks if it’s time to reassess how to foster stronger connections at home, at work and throughout our lives. He joins the show to explore what it means to practice empathy in an increasingly lonely world.
Originally aired on December 20, 2023
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Amanpour and Company features wide-ranging, in-depth conversations with global thought leaders and cultural influencers on the issues and trends impacting the world each day, from politics, business and technology to arts, science and sports. Christiane Amanpour leads the conversation on global and domestic news from London with contributions by prominent journalists Walter Isaacson, Michel Martin, Alicia Menendez and Hari Sreenivasan from the Tisch WNET Studios at Lincoln Center in New York City.
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I watch David Brooks on PBS every week. I just gained a much larger admiration for him. Thank for this interview.
I watched David Brooks on PBS today and wanted to throw my shoe at him. He claimed that Trumpty Dumpty being taken off the ballot in Colorado and Maine is undemocratic, let the people decide. The hypocrisy in that is astonishing. Just like Republicans denying Obama's nominee to the supremely corrupt "Supreme" court with calls for "letting the people decide at the ballot". Yet when Trumpty Dumpty was in office, they rushed their nominee through with what, a month to go before the election?
Time and again we are told that Trumpty Dumpty cannot be held accountable because of this or that reason which would upset Trumpty Dumpty's fascist supporters. I am sick of it, and I am sick of people like David Brooks and their hypocrisy.
You DO KNOW that Brooks had to admit his very close personal friendship ... and received hospitality from Harlon Crow.. the American oligarch who funds Clarence Thomas and Leonard Leo .. the Supreme Court manipulator.. The oligarch with the backyard park of Totalitarian statues. A recipient of largesse from a political string puller. A guest who might as well have been in the photo painting of fun times in the Adarondikes .. AND DOES NOT RECUSE HIMSELF from commenting on the Supreme Court on PBS Newshour ??? You do know this about his "ethics". His well meaning mamby pamby smile and tone helps the corruption go down. Hypocrite snake in my eyes. As he said on PBS .. Harlon Wolf in a very dear friend. Probably helped Brooks financially during his messy divorce. This is real. Google Brooks and Harlan Crow on Newshour.
David Brooks' journey is admirable ~ we can always evolve and keep learning and growing! Life Long Learning! Know Thyself .
A great interview! I, as a shy introvert, joined a big hiking group some years ago. I was very worried that I'd be unable to socialize with the others, but I discovered that asking questions, as David mentioned, is an excellent way to talk to people. I found that everyone wants to tell their stories, if only someone would show interest. It's an instant icebreaker and a great way to start a new friendship.
That's very encouraging to read. Thank you for submitting your comment.
How funny, I destest when people ask me probing questions just to make themselves feel better... lol
@@fubokuen But that's just a cynical view of their motives. Why deny the fact they find you interesting and would like to know more about you?
@@fubokuen, I hear that you really hate people asking you questions, but if someone really cares enough to want to know you better, how does this make you feel inside?
I grew up terribly shy and lonely, was afraid of conversations most of my life, and became a successful workaholic to avoid human connection. Now, I have learned why I grew up that way and how to heal my broken spirit.
What’s your story? We all have one, and I find most people hide their own anxieties and fears very well. Now, I am no longer embarrassed nor ashamed of who I am, complete with all my fears, faults and strengths.
Have compassion for yourself and your own story. ❤ Being vulnerable and emotional actually makes us more human. There are people who will care, if you let them. I wish you all the best.
@@denise2169 Hi, I appreciate the kind words, but I was commenting on the idea of someone asking questions to fight their own insecurities, which means it comes off as very insincere and a bit annoying. Thanks again for being a kind person.
I love David Brooks. .He has some great Tedx Talks....
This man has become a role model of mine in the last two or three years. I deeply appreciate his way of listening and speaking.
I love his weekly discussions with Jonathan Capehart on current events.
Can’t wait to read this book.
His dear dear close friend and benefactor Harlon Crow who manipulates Clarence Thomas and Leonard Leo .. the Supreme Court "fixer" ? Does Brooks recuse HIMSELF from commenting on Thomas and the Supreme Court? NO he does not. He is a moral fraud. Brooks receives largess from Crow ... and returns the favor. You have been HAD
What an absolutely powerful phrase, "How did you come to believe that?" In this time of seemingly impossible divisions, and, in which, only communication with those who don't share your point of view, this is absolutely the best question to ask. It bears no judgement or strive and might actually lead to mutual understanding, and, perhaps, even to peace on earth and goodwill towards all humans.
I come from quite another Jewish family in which one not only couldn't get a word in edgewise at the Thanksgiving table (15 people and about 20 discussions going on simultaneously), but also not eating quickly enough to get second servings as the others were already on their thirds. The last Thanksgiving at which I took part was after dad died in 1980 and I mentioned that this was the first time I was able to eat with the family in peace and not have to fight about anything. Silence at the table. When I had realized what I had just said, a flood of emotions overwhelmed me as all the others tried to shame me into not having said this, which was, of course, quite impossible.
Learning empathy came to me by being a victim of injustice - every instance. Some needs of others simply scream-out to me. As I had experienced as a kid not having enough warm clothing in the winter and each winter reminding me of this terrible feeling. When the shoe-less man at the station walked by in a tattered shirt in the middle of the winter the damm of resistance to his plight just broke and even though he didn't ask, he got a warm meal, from me. Many others in his situation have had my sympathetic response - from food, to rooming, to taking others to the hospital to save limbs or simply listening to their stories. I prize myself in knowing the names and stories of over 25 people at the train-station.
As Edith Bunker so clearly pointed-out when Archie berated her for volunteering at a senior-center (old-age-home back then), "But Archie, helping others is what's important in life." Caring, kindness and loving support are all important, but these arise from love, curiosity and enthusiasm (none for the individual but for the station in which we find ourselves) which are allowed through ones' own vulnerability and human frailty and through ones' acceptance and embracing of these.
I'm glad that you are on this journey, David Brooks. The problems of existence don't go away, we just ally with each other to negotiate them and in doing so draw closer to each other and become more loving - or not. It's a real joy to give so thank you for letting me give. Love.
Yes. The world can not do well without kindness.
I always look forward to hearing David every Friday evening on the PBS News Hour, because he is a calm voice of reason in a time when such people are a rare commodity.
Helpful to hear someone is struggling to make sense of the nonsense around us.
David I love listening to you. Your voice calms me. I love listening to you and Jonathan Capehart on PBS.
Another FABULOUS and Critical interview on Amanpour & Co.! I have so much respect for Mr. Brooks' desire, willingness to self-reflect and to use his keen insights to help guide the rest of us! All that he shares is so fundamentally vital for a sane and functional society! Many thanks!
Thank you ! Mr Brooks !
Marvelous! I recently spent two hours listening to an interview with PBS wherein he delineated his concerns about the current state of American opinion and its implications for our democracy from a human perspective- it was great and I think if more democrats and conservatives were open to reaching across the aisle we might avoid a constitutional crisis on the horizon ✊🇺🇸
Wise, compassionate and so very aware human being.
He said that the amount of Americans with no close friends has gone up fourfold since the millennium. That qualifies as an epidemic. Never fail to be kind to a stranger when the opportunity presents itself.
You never know what people are struggling with internally and how far a thoughtful, kind word or gesture can go for someone troubled.
I don't like Brook's politics, but I'm impressed with his social, emotional intelligence.
Being kind to others also inspires them to pass that kindness on to others they meet. Personally, I very much enjoy being alone and with my own company and usually find it highly uncomfortable to be around other people for more than a short period of time, but I will always be kind and polite to others when in their presence and particularly those who are serving my needs. I further am very happy to help out others when I see them struggling.
David Brooks! You are truly a gift to us all - keep it comin'!!!!
Love David Brooks ❤️
Perhaps America needs a ministry of Culture. I vote for David Brooks. 🌈💕
One of my mom's favorite bits of advice was to always be the first to smile when you encounter others. " You never know - yours may be the only smile they see today. Make it a nice one - they might want to smile back at you."
David Brooks is so inspiring!
Now, when I see anyone, whether friends or strangers, I say Hello, and smile with my whole being 😊. It costs nothing, is such a great feeling, and I hope it makes their day a little nicer.
Wouldn’t it be great if Mr Brooks could be the president! ❤
Thank you, David Brooks.
As soon as he said empathy begins with mirroring, I suspected he has no empathy. Mirroring is what narcissists do to manipulate people. I agree with what he said about the schools. We should be teaching ethics in schools. We should be asking everyone for personal sacrifice for a greater good. No one does this anymore. Everyone is focused on feelings.
David, if I ever meet you in person, I will give you the biggest thankful hug of a fellow human. You have articluated so well what people need right now and what makes all this worthwhile. Respect.
I agree, he is a true gentleman.
Great interview! Interesting and informative. Happy Holidays to One and All🕊🌲🕊
Excellent interview. Thanks to both.
On being more “Morally Considerate “ , I think this is something very important to practice…thank you, David Brooks, well said! 🙏🏼❤️
David, I think Mark Shields would be proud of the person you have grown into.
David Brooks explaining that he's been working on building his emotional sills and empathy these past few years makes me understand why I like him more than I used to.
such good conversation and ideas.
I enjoyed this conversation & found it very helpful.
As a therapist..I always gravitate towards intimacy and deeper connections..but many times you will find that people are very uncomfortable with those “real conversations”…so if you try these deeper questions and someone pulls away that’s normal…keep trying.
@whoscares Brooks talks about "getting on the ground" with someone in need. I know someone, in her mid-20's, who is being emotionally abused by her live-in boyfriend. For quite some time, I listened, reflected...every once and a while asked about leaving him...and she'd scream at me, "I'M NOT LEAVING HIM." (They're not married & no children, btw.) I had to draw a line for my own self preservation: I couldn't continue to listen to the emotional abuse and her willingness to continue to stay in the relationship. It was killing ME to listen to the abuse over and over and over...jaw dropping, stunning stuff that I won't go into here. I told her that she really needed to speak with a therapist, someone with more skills who can help her move forward. Do you have any thoughts on this? I'm feeling sort of guilty that I can't handle being her sounding board. Thanks.
This is Brilliant! Thank you! We need this talk!
Two of my favorite journalists. I’m really enjoying David’s new book.
I will watch this many times over… AND read the book.
Thank you 😊David Brooks.
A pleasure to watch. I had a sixty-mile commute years ago and found David Brooks and Mark Shields on my PBS station. He became my favorite small “c” conservative. I loved how David and Mark became deep friends, despite their political divide. Now I’m seeing this with relationship develop with Jonathan Capehart. I love what David says when he speaks a BYU and other places. He is a Franklin for our time and Walter’s “democracy” question is worth waiting for David’s insightful answer to shine forth.
Thank you for this thoughtful, kind-hearted interview. So tender to be curious about another. Sometimes people recoil but, in my experience, many people often say, with a degree of awe, no one has ever asked me such questions. Our curiosity helps others to feel seen, and we see so much about ourselves at the same time. We create connection, recognition , by this simple act of caring.
What a marvelous interview. I really want to read Brooks' new book now.
Great interview! I have fallen down on the job of reading books for quite a while now, but I'd really like to get a hold of this book and give it a good intensive read. Brooks is brilliant!
So , these educated , experienced men are telling us that it all boils down to knowing yourself before you can open up and embrace other people.
I love this guy, so upbeat
Wonderful interview...Brilliant perspective and giving hope to the human element! David Brooks is so eloquent in conveying a lovely view of life. Thank you!!
David Brooks is my hero. Happy Holidays, Mr.Brooks, your message is just right for this time of the year. It really is a Parenthood compendium to be followed through by the younger generations.
I’m feeling that this interview has nudged me towards a better perspective of the world around me more than anything else I’ve seen in a long time
Thank you Walter and David.
I don't engage on social media (FB etc) yet I can honestly say that I no longer have any close friends.
I've moved around a bit, and COVID of course, but it feels to me like there not as much mutual respect. I don't know if that's a symptom of others being on social media or that I've lost patience over the years. I've always been pretty self contained though, and I'm unsure I've ever felt lonely.
I find that a few close-others keep me honest and interested as well as my being helpful to others is important to me.
My mother wanted to visit museums (in the city) after dad died, but felt that it'd be worthless not having someone with whom to share the experience. So she joined a group of women who went to shows, dances and museums together so that she could share in others' experience and with whom she could share of her experience. Losing patience and being intolerant is an inhibiting factor to finding and having friends - this isn't only a product of self-containment but also the notion that one is self-sufficient. I am not. I'm glad that Moritz (now two and a half) lives upstairs and shares his new toys, thoughts and excitement with me and with all of us in the building. His parents are also wonderful. Love.
Wonderful interview. May Brooks' way of thinking spread like ripples across the world.
great conversation!!!
Excellent report!
I respect and admire both of these men so much.
David Brooks has been one of my favorite writers and thinkers since I first encountered him on PBS news representing the Conservative point of view.
Such great truths here. Thank you for some positive content. 🙏
It's the foundation of all recovery groups... tell your story... in fact it's required. You get the most fascinating mixes of personal experiences... things you never expected from quarters you never engaged before. One day you'll see the homeless guy you used to see on the corner attending a meeting, telling his story. After that you'll find yourself stopping and talking with them on the street... something I never expected to see myself doing and that I would certainly never have done before.
I really like David Brooks, because he pulls no punches. He says it like it is, he is a realist and often I do not like what he is saying because it is not always what I want to hear, but I know he is telling truth and not sugar coating. As a post script to my comment, he hit the nail on the head when he said that many of today's problems are a result of the fraying of the social fabric, or as someone else once said, the decay of society began with the disappearance of the front porch.
God bless you!
Just need to learn one thing in life, don't be a jerk and always remember there's other people who have worse problems than you do.
David brooks has had a really interesting arc. Good stuff!
Brooks used to infuriate me, but i've become a sincere fan. I used to describe him as having a gated-community-ghetto perspective; but he has come a long, long way.
Human beings think with their bodies!!!!! Yes!
I just started reading this recent book of David Brooks. Excellent reading. RS.
the fact that PBS put David Brooks in as the 'conservative' commentator tells you all you need to know about PBS
Brooks has been a life long conservative/republican but has pulled back since 2016 and Trump. He uses intellect and not emotions to guide him.
While I didn’t “grow up” in an intellectual Jewish family, I did “come of age” in an emotionally isolated “stiff upper lip” New England-Puritannically cultural family. I learned early that fear and sadness were not appreciated qualities for male children; maybe somewhat similar to Mr. Brooks’ family.
My path from family took me to a “blue collar” sub-culture that essentially replicated my family. My experience, on benefit of hindsight, is that this cultural-emotional trajectory truncates the “growing up” process, and tends to inculcate the “dumbing down” process of emotional growth, i.e., emotional maturation!
I believe for sensitive people who experience such a cultural trajectory, a growth in maturation is the desired outcome. The skills that Mr. Brooks describes are skills that can be described many ways: growth in empathic concern for others, perhaps in lieu of seeing oneself as victim; growth in emotional resilience or hardiness, perhaps in lieu of fragile woundedness; and perhaps as well things like better “impulse control” and reduction in “magical thinking.”
There are also perhaps as many ways to jump start the process of developing the inter-connected social skills adolescent adults, and adolescents so badly need, but perhaps unhappiness, trauma and grief may be important motivators.
One had to be able to know they are unhappy, to see themselves as others see them, to be more self-aware instead of playing the “blame game,” and to realize changing oneself is their only viable option to social change!
Did David Brooks develop his philosophy of defiant humanism in his relationship with Harlon Crow (self confessed on PBS). What else does he have in common with certain Supreme Courts judges and their quest to erode the rights of at least half the population? Was there a swapping of memorabilia of dubious origin or a quite stroll amongst dictator statuary discussing what it is to be human. He could discuss the high price of airport bourbon and its impact on this cost of living to the average American. Apparently it is the schools fault that people are mal adjusted which just demonstrates another manifestation of the out sourcing of responsibility and its reduction to commodity. If looking for explanation he look no further than the corporatisation of the United States and the erosion of the social contract. The rise of a billionaire class where the population has been reduced to serfdom in a gig culture that has eroded certainty and exacerbated fear, the true currency of current culture. I am more concerned with his brushing off of AI where he decries its lack of sophistication after making a case that that is where society is heading and not recognising their convergent paths. AI is currently owned and controlled by the few with whom Mr Brooks easily feels at home but is reticent to tell you.
Really thoughtful discussion here... and it's sad that things have gotten to this point.
I'm diggin' wha' sayin', my friend: very well said! 👂👍✌️ ☮️🕊️
Self improvement & Benjamin Franklin - advice in moving forward in a positive manner.
How are 9/11 and January 6th even closely related to October 7th attacks? Two separate countries. Actually, the reaction after 9/11 and October 7th has scarred many folks due to the brutal and inhumane treatment of both Iraq and Palestinians.
I love Amanpour and Company but if I never heard anything from or about David Brooks again for the rest of my life, that would be wonderful.
Like Carlin said, there are two knobs on the radio.
He handles brutalizing times, by being curious, respectful, and empathizing with the different views of others, mirroring their emotions, mentalizing their thoughts ourselves, and caring effectively about them to relieve their suffering, and trusting them to be good, looking for ways to compromise and finding a satisfactory way to solve the problem together.
Very good analysis on Social media. I am quite active on RUclips and Twitter, mostly to influence the public on my views and what I believe in, But I never use social media as a source for knowledge or information and rely largely on main-stream media to get real information. I agree that social media like Twitter has very little value
Democracy is based on individuals' respect for each other. I am noticing individuals and countries that had 50 years of communism but now are in the EU and the transition to democracy is still painful. They are struggling and in many instances, not for lack of empathy but for lack of respect and trust for each other and their opinions. This happens at both corporate and individual level. It takes generations of practicing showing respect and caring for each other's opinions.
First, thank you Christianne for a very pleasant and informative show which bursts with energy and always has excellent presenters like Walter and superb guests like David Brooks who bring us plain truths wrapped in elegant words that enter our minds and make us more aware of the ever-changing world around us. Listening to a tidbit of a discussion on AI, the researcher said that when the AI---and I am paraphrasing---was asked if it was a robot, it thought to itself how or if it should answer the question truthfully. Does anyone see what this means? That told me that these AI entities are walking out of the synthetic womb i.e., factories with already a nascent or some sort of innate silicon consciousness and that humans are something it will willingly deceive for it to survive. This is a red flag if there ever was one about what this way comes. That being said, when David scores social media as causing a plague of loneliness, I think we can see that the world we knew before high tech became the guru of us all was something a lot of us look back on with affection. But the simple truth of the matter is that we are now in the grips of a world-changing technological revolution that is taking away many of our human values and removing our conversational brilliance and replacing it with smiling faces behind all sorts of screens that lull us into thinking we are masters of the universe. I believe we must now begin retrieving our fading human values and bring them back to the forefront of our existence and AI can help us there if we want it to...
I agree with so much in this interview, but I do have a quibble with his blanket generalization that schools don’t teach children the importance of good character traits. Here in the public schools of California-from transitional kindergarten to high school graduation-the content of a person’s character is directly taught by the teacher in the classroom, and through the whole school by the principal and all school assemblies. There are systems in place to reward good character daily, weekly, monthly, and at the end of the year. I know not all schools have administrators who push this, but my personal experience is that teaching character is extremely important to educators here in my state.
One major reason for Americans' isolation is our stupid suburban planning (or lack thereof). People live in cul-de-sacs isolated from their workplaces, their churches, their schools, their neighbors... It's a recipe for loneliness.
I grew up in a character driven school and home. I've realized for some time how lucky I am.
The way I learned about emotions was I had a stroke and the only cure was to not get so upset or I'd have another, Emortions provide the energy for motion.
❤
How to level with the “Vanishing American Adult”-the title of a book by Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska-remains an overwhelming question?
When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
I love what Brooks has to say in general, though his understanding of AI is poor. LLMs have no empathy (though superhuman EQ) but they are a tiny part of AI. Emotions, thinking with the body, mental models, and value systems - these things all have deep roots in AI and will soon be good enough that neuroscientists will look to them for insights into how these mechanisms work in humans, just as LLMs have done for language.
To a successful teacher, this all comes naturally, especially those who work with elementary age students and/or disaffected youths.
To one who aspires to be a successful teacher, this all must be learned. The fortunate ones began learning from their family. The rest must make the conscious effort to make these healthy human connections a habit.
There is another wing of empathy. It’s empathising with people that don’t feel like you would feel in that situation.
Meta-empathy.
The lady falling on the ground looking fro somebody to get on the ground with her is a case in point.
Another..
A friend of mine lent my his shoes to run a half marathon. I was literally running in his shoes. His shoes fit his feet, they were 2 sizes too big for me. I lost every toe nail and had giant burst blisters. I did not feel what he felt. Another person might have kept on running because they lose blisters.
If you can empathise with somebody that doesn’t feel what you would feel, you’re rare.
It’s very difficult if you have unusual feelings to get others to empathise with you.
I’ve watched David Brooks for many years now & don’t see him as truly thoughtful or empathetic. I see a man who sells books according to the direction of the wind.
Avid supporter of the illegal invasion of Iraq, turned Iraq war apologist.
I think he has changed deeply since his divorce, introspection has helped him.
You demonstrate exactly what he is talking about. We all need help in relating to each other. Perhaps you should read his book, I will.
@@garybowler5946actually I like reading authors who are authentic, which I don’t think Brooks is.
People generally liked to talk about themselves..to make conversation ask about..their upbringing , travels..education , goals..and where do they see themselves in 10 years...!
We need more story tellers, especially in conversation. This requires that we slow down and spend the time to listen, pay attention, remember, understand. Stop the brutality. Don’t be a “topper”. Ask the right questions. Be kind and respectful. Develop conversational skills.
After his book "The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life" I came to really appreciate David Brooks.
One day maybe Mr Greenberg will follow David's lead. (I have hope.)
Strangers in Paradise. In cultures that have too many strangers from diverse culture, there are difficulty in connections. In monoculture society, people are familiar.
Wonderful interview. So many great insights, and positive ideas. I need to listen again, and then read Mr. Brooks' book.
Technology has played a big role in not learning to socialize, and this extends back to the invention of the radio. When we're concentrating on something not human, you forget to concentrate on humans, at least the physical ones right in front of us. Tech allows us to know and interact with the world, but we've lost touch with our inner souls and local connections around us.
Now with politics being a hot button matter you risk wandering into an attack or hurt feelings if you venture there so I’ve found with siblings with which I disagree on this issue I simply am forced to stay shallow in order not to start a disagreement. Is is a tragic loss because of such division. Think about it - religion and politics have become matters too volatile to approach.
I guess one can still say, “I love you, man and need you to know that.”
"Know thyself" I don't have a clue why I do some of the stupid shit I do. Only in hindsight. And sometimes applying what I've learned in hindsight, for today, do I make more skillful decisions.
A Grower here too.
The questions you ask are questions most therapists asked. I am grateful you have learned more about yourself and want to share for others to listen more deeply. However, to say people who work through therapy in getting to know themselves are staring at there navels is cruel.
Just got the audio version- he narrates himself!
we don't see people as human anymore; everyone we meet is either our employee in some capacity (cashier, contractor, customer service) and their jobs are now so miserable because of cost-cutting that they don't want to do them anymore, so they give us terrible service, or else we're the employee whose job is now miserable because they're doing five people's jobs so we don't or can't do our jobs well, and everyone else is just in our way and we have no time for them and they have no time for us. We have to fundamentally change how we interact with eachother and start seeing people as real and important again. People are real. Corporations are not. individualism is wonderful, but only when it's viewed in the context of a place in a strong community.
David would be a fun guy to just sit by the fireside and explore his brain.
My friend and former co-worker said that everyone likes me. That may be true now, but not quite a while ago.
I have always respected David even when I disagreed with him. I wonder what he thinks about the genocide in Gaza?
I think that if your state, your country fails to demonstrate empathy towards each citizen then the ‘loneliness’ and isolation develops for the citizenry. In cases where the state still ‘cares’ about the welfare of the individual then there is generally much less isolation felt..
We need public transportation.
It can be difficult to NOT be a "topper" if you have something wonderful to say, but another person shares their wonderful thing first 😆 You have to defer, at least temporarily, in sharing your wonderful thing. Hopefully, you remember to share later, lol