I just want to thank you guys for creating what you have. I can't count how many times I have referenced your videos over the years for projects on my 68 f250. May your endeavors be blessed.
Very helpful, I've been having problems with my pulleys & finding right brackets. For my 351w, 69 lol I'm newbie back yard trying to resto . Thanks so much for your videos & help great info !!
I stumbled my way through the Ford pulley madness on my 69 Mustang. I bought a similar year Mustang parts car so that I could gain PS and PB (among other things). But the pullies didn't align. The online parts vendors weren't much help because they weren't consistent in their descriptions of diameters, depth and setbacks, and compatibilities. I had to make a shim for the waterpump pulley. I got there but it was real frustrating!
When I swapped a 1999 Ford Motorsport 302 crate motor into my 1963 Fairlane I had a hell of a time just gettin the crank, water pump and GM style 1 wire alt to line up. Came in the crate set up for serpentine. Biggest problem was Ford made so many offsets on water pump pulleys and waterpump noses. I almost went with some March pulleys, but we finally found a OEM pulley that lined up. I was throwing lots of belts shifting at 6 grand.
Your pulley question got me questioning why also lol. I just looked in my Chilton collector edition (not sure if matters) for the 1961-1971 truck repair manual and found only 1 picture from the FoMoCo of the 330 v8 with dual belts to the crank. In the 71-78 manual no pics and looked at the car manuals also with no such luck. I do recall I had a 390 75 F100 with dual belts also and my now 73 with 390 does not. So as far as I have seen is, one truck owned in early life and this one pic in the manual, that they just gave you 2 belts. Not sure but got my curiosity....thanks for vid guys.
Some great information. I am thinking of adding AC and Power steering to my stang. This is a big help. For the 6 Cylinders, it is getting hard to find the double groove water pump pulley.
I have been running a CVF racing v belt pulley and bracket system for about 10 years now on my Cleveland. Probably one the easiest way to get the correct parts but probably not the cheapest way.
Your math seems to be way off on the alternator speed. The alternator will be moving over 3 times the speed of the crank pulley. So, if you idle at 750 RPM, that alternator is going over 2,300 RPM. The diameter of the alternator is over 3 times smaller than the crank pulley, so it will go 3 times faster than the crank pulley. That alternator at 5000 engine RPM will be spinning over 15,000 RPM.
Cam, the crank (7.9375) should be divided by the alternator (2.5) that gives you a 3.175 : 1 ratio. The alternator spins 3.175 TIMES faster than the crank. At 750 rpm at idle, the alternator is bumping close to 2,400 rpms. Is there a chart or listing the show recommended accessory speeds? That would allow a builder to search for the correct pullies based on math rather than luck and guesswork.
I think they did the dual belts ( just like industrial and over the road trucks, some had 3) as a redundancy type thing in hopes that if you lose one you can keep going to a gas station back it the day. But as my luck goes usually it the back belt that comes off taking the rest with.
I have two comments/questions… Is a 7-15/16” crankshaft pulley really massive? I have a stock olds cutlass it has about a 8” pulley. The driven water pump has a dual 5”/6” and then it goes to the 2.5” alternator. If I did the math correctly my water pump is driven at 1200 rpm and the Alternator is 2618 rpm. At 750 idle. Reason why I’m even thinking about this is because I recently bought some Aluminum pulley’s and the crankshaft pulley is only 4.75” versus the factory 8”. 😮 With the new smaller pulley it would take me close to a 1:1 ratio. Therefore cutting all the driven pulleys RPM in half. So instead of the water pump spinning at 1200 rpm, it’ll be only 625. The alternator RPM would drop to 1364. But when I researched the alternator rpm specs it seems like 2500 RPM at idle is correct! Now I don’t know what to do. I want to install my new pulleys, but at the same time I want the higher rpm at idle because I have a high output alternator to compensate for the 60 amp cooling fans, 80 amp air ride compressor. 300 amp Amplifiers ect. From the research I found 2500 is the number for alternator rotation at idle. fml
Ok guys, for the question of dual sheathed WP’s and ALT’s it’s simple. I’ve got an 85 F250 with a 460, so my truck has 7 pulleys with one being the crank obviously. My belt drive also is dual belt for the power steering pump or PSP and uses two air pumps or AP’s. My crank or CP has 4 grooves which is two pulleys bolted together, my WP has 3 grooves with a space (no 2nd groove) which is two pulleys bottled together. My ALT & PS have two grooves, my A/C Comp & both AP’s are one groove. Seems complicated but it’s not by far. The front to back grooves 3 & 4 of the CP drive the WP & PSP, groove one of CP drives the WP & A/C Comp. Groove 2 of the CP drives the rear groove of the ALT and the front groove of the ALT drives both AP’s. This is a 5 belt accessory system and yes it’s cumbersome and very annoying to change just one belt. So if I have to change one depending on availability and cost I just change them all to be good on all accessories. There is no belt drive diagram sticker on my truck but, looking at the pulleys it’s self explanatory.
@@AutoRestoMod not really, just looking at the accessory drive there’s no adjustments for belts to be misaligned. Only adjustments are for belt tension, it’s easy as heck even on a bad hot day!
AFAIK dual sheave pulleys on water pump & alt were used on engines with separate sheave on water pump pulley, to drive smog pump. Those were generally Hi-Po engines with Holley carb, that could not pass emissions. The '68 390GT with Holley used smog pump, the '69 used a Autolite carb & no smog pump.
At crusin’ the coast you spend a ton of time sitting in traffic. But as a rule, no, parades aren’t really common place. Oh and my 17yo daughter does crocheting and knitting 🤷♂️ and watches those videos.
dual v-belt alternator on some 1967 Mustangs with in dash ac from factory. with one v-belt and you get a squeaky belt if ac at max blower max and lights on.
Yes Ford pulleys can be maddening, looking in Master Parts there are pulleys of 6" & 61/64", really? For small blocks there was a major pulley & bracket change from 1969 to 1970(year water pump inlet changed from passenger to driver side). There were two P/S pulley for the '69 428 Cobra Jets. Size increased due to the 3.91 & 4.30 gear SCJ burning up pumps. Not having the correct CJ pulley, when I installed P/S on my Torino, I used a 6cyl Maverick pulley(offset perfect). It's size is between the original speced pulleys. I now have correct pulley but am in no hurry to swap it out. Many water pump pulleys swap between FE and pre '70 small blocks. The water pump pulley on your Mustang is a '70 up pulley(appears same as on my '72 Comet). Those generally have seperate drives for alt and P/S pumps. The P/S bracket is correct for '67/'69, probably so is the pulley.
@@AutoRestoMod According to Ford Master Parts, '67 289 Mustang without A/C used a 4 7/8" P/S pulley. Should be stamped AC. With A/C Used 5" pulley stamped AD. I'm using a 7AA pulley on my '69 Fairlane 302, its from a 1968 A/C 390GT. Ford doesn't give size but measures just under 5". That's the system(with Maverick pulley) now on my 428CJ. Offset was wrong for 390 pulley on 428CJ.
I have encountered this with Ford multiple times. Why they changed pulley depths and diameters throughout the sixties and seventies is just dumb. It's no surprise why GM was far more successful on their small block platform.
You showed a horrible pulley/belt misalignment. I must have missed the correction part of the program. Do you have a video on pulley alignment correction procedure?
Two things. First is there a chart somewhere that gives you the correct ratio? My math isn’t good either but isn’t the alternator turning 3 to 1 with the crank instead of.31? Second (see I told you my math is not so great) , I changed out 2 new alternators and 3 alternator pulleys trying to get an alternator to stop squealing. Turned out to be a bent crank pulley. Thanks for the great videos.
It should be stressed that there are many many variations of Ford accessory pulleys…they made multiple changes just within single model years, you have to go by the numbers on them, very important😀
Been swapping Ford engines since late '60s. As long as puillies are aligned, I've never worried about diameters, no issues. Water pump and crank pulleys on my '69 Fairlane are so close can't fold a sheet of printer paper 4x slip it into space. May have been 1/8" space on orig.
For any alternator over 95A you need a dual v-belt system, or you get a squeaky belt. One v-belt doesn't get enough traction to consistently pull the larger units. That is the recommendation from PA Performance. One alternative is to switch to a serpentine (which has a wider belt), but that usually means dropping the stock fan blade and going with electric fans. I prefer the stock look, so I don't run anything over 95A, and really I don't have need for more amps- I think the stock alternator on my old mustang was 38 amps.
I just want to thank you guys for creating what you have. I can't count how many times I have referenced your videos over the years for projects on my 68 f250.
May your endeavors be blessed.
Wow, thank you!
Thanks Peter
Very helpful, I've been having problems with my pulleys & finding right brackets. For my 351w, 69 lol I'm newbie back yard trying to resto . Thanks so much for your videos & help great info !!
I stumbled my way through the Ford pulley madness on my 69 Mustang. I bought a similar year Mustang parts car so that I could gain PS and PB (among other things). But the pullies didn't align. The online parts vendors weren't much help because they weren't consistent in their descriptions of diameters, depth and setbacks, and compatibilities. I had to make a shim for the waterpump pulley. I got there but it was real frustrating!
Yep. I've been there before.
When I swapped a 1999 Ford Motorsport 302 crate motor into my 1963 Fairlane I had a hell of a time just gettin the crank, water pump and GM style 1 wire alt to line up. Came in the crate set up for serpentine. Biggest problem was Ford made so many offsets on water pump pulleys and waterpump noses. I almost went with some March pulleys, but we finally found a OEM pulley that lined up. I was throwing lots of belts shifting at 6 grand.
That is exactly what I've found.
Your pulley question got me questioning why also lol. I just looked in my Chilton collector edition (not sure if matters) for the 1961-1971 truck repair manual and found only 1 picture from the FoMoCo of the 330 v8 with dual belts to the crank. In the 71-78 manual no pics and looked at the car manuals also with no such luck. I do recall I had a 390 75 F100 with dual belts also and my now 73 with 390 does not. So as far as I have seen is, one truck owned in early life and this one pic in the manual, that they just gave you 2 belts. Not sure but got my curiosity....thanks for vid guys.
You are welcome
Some great information. I am thinking of adding AC and Power steering to my stang. This is a big help. For the 6 Cylinders, it is getting hard to find the double groove water pump pulley.
Glad it helped. Any of those original pulleys are a pain now.
That’s a great check! I have stock gt serpentine on the wagon and no problems. Never knew how to calculate for under/overdrive. Thanks!
Glad to help!
I have been running a CVF racing v belt pulley and bracket system for about 10 years now on my Cleveland. Probably one the easiest way to get the correct parts but probably not the cheapest way.
That is the direction we are leaning. Looking toward March Pullies
Your math seems to be way off on the alternator speed. The alternator will be moving over 3 times the speed of the crank pulley. So, if you idle at 750 RPM, that alternator is going over 2,300 RPM. The diameter of the alternator is over 3 times smaller than the crank pulley, so it will go 3 times faster than the crank pulley. That alternator at 5000 engine RPM will be spinning over 15,000 RPM.
Came here to say this... Jeeze Cam...
We don't maths well.
@@AutoRestoMod LOL
very true older chevys dont energize till 2000 rpm
Cam, the crank (7.9375) should be divided by the alternator (2.5) that gives you a 3.175 : 1 ratio. The alternator spins 3.175 TIMES faster than the crank. At 750 rpm at idle, the alternator is bumping close to 2,400 rpms.
Is there a chart or listing the show recommended accessory speeds? That would allow a builder to search for the correct pullies based on math rather than luck and guesswork.
We didn't find one but We'll look.
I think they did the dual belts ( just like industrial and over the road trucks, some had 3) as a redundancy type thing in hopes that if you lose one you can keep going to a gas station back it the day. But as my luck goes usually it the back belt that comes off taking the rest with.
Might be.
I've been having ebay sellers issue for parts & my books aren't helping on brackets or size of pulleys, lol so Thanks again
great info! So, what's the optimal setting for pulley ratio? Keep all pulley ratios as close to 1 as possible for all around driving?
I have two comments/questions… Is a 7-15/16” crankshaft pulley really massive?
I have a stock olds cutlass it has about a 8” pulley. The driven water pump has a dual 5”/6” and then it goes to the 2.5” alternator.
If I did the math correctly my water pump is driven at 1200 rpm and the Alternator is 2618 rpm. At 750 idle.
Reason why I’m even thinking about this is because I recently bought some Aluminum pulley’s and the crankshaft pulley is only 4.75” versus the factory 8”. 😮
With the new smaller pulley it would take me close to a 1:1 ratio. Therefore cutting all the driven pulleys RPM in half.
So instead of the water pump spinning at 1200 rpm, it’ll be only 625. The alternator RPM would drop to 1364. But when I researched the alternator rpm specs it seems like 2500 RPM at idle is correct!
Now I don’t know what to do. I want to install my new pulleys, but at the same time I want the higher rpm at idle because I have a high output alternator to compensate for the 60 amp cooling fans, 80 amp air ride compressor. 300 amp Amplifiers ect. From the research I found 2500 is the number for alternator rotation at idle. fml
Ok guys, for the question of dual sheathed WP’s and ALT’s it’s simple. I’ve got an 85 F250 with a 460, so my truck has 7 pulleys with one being the crank obviously. My belt drive also is dual belt for the power steering pump or PSP and uses two air pumps or AP’s. My crank or CP has 4 grooves which is two pulleys bolted together, my WP has 3 grooves with a space (no 2nd groove) which is two pulleys bottled together. My ALT & PS have two grooves, my A/C Comp & both AP’s are one groove. Seems complicated but it’s not by far.
The front to back grooves 3 & 4 of the CP drive the WP & PSP, groove one of CP drives the WP & A/C Comp. Groove 2 of the CP drives the rear groove of the ALT and the front groove of the ALT drives both AP’s. This is a 5 belt accessory system and yes it’s cumbersome and very annoying to change just one belt. So if I have to change one depending on availability and cost I just change them all to be good on all accessories. There is no belt drive diagram sticker on my truck but, looking at the pulleys it’s self explanatory.
That still sounds complex. LOL
@@AutoRestoMod not really, just looking at the accessory drive there’s no adjustments for belts to be misaligned.
Only adjustments are for belt tension, it’s easy as heck even on a bad hot day!
AFAIK dual sheave pulleys on water pump & alt were used on engines with separate sheave on water pump pulley, to drive smog pump. Those were generally Hi-Po engines with Holley carb, that could not pass emissions. The '68 390GT with Holley used smog pump, the '69 used a Autolite carb & no smog pump.
Thanks for that!
At crusin’ the coast you spend a ton of time sitting in traffic. But as a rule, no, parades aren’t really common place. Oh and my 17yo daughter does crocheting and knitting 🤷♂️ and watches those videos.
THEY DO EXIST!
dual v-belt alternator on some 1967 Mustangs with in dash ac from factory. with one v-belt and you get a squeaky belt if ac at max blower max and lights on.
Interesting!
I have a bad alignment problem with my belts period it has a belt system setup for a blower but no blower wanna switch to normal pulleys
Yes Ford pulleys can be maddening, looking in Master Parts there are pulleys of 6" & 61/64", really? For small blocks there was a major pulley & bracket change from 1969 to 1970(year water pump inlet changed from passenger to driver side). There were two P/S pulley for the '69 428 Cobra Jets. Size increased due to the 3.91 & 4.30 gear SCJ burning up pumps. Not having the correct CJ pulley, when I installed P/S on my Torino, I used a 6cyl Maverick pulley(offset perfect). It's size is between the original speced pulleys. I now have correct pulley but am in no hurry to swap it out. Many water pump pulleys swap between FE and pre '70 small blocks.
The water pump pulley on your Mustang is a '70 up pulley(appears same as on my '72 Comet). Those generally have seperate drives for alt and P/S pumps. The P/S bracket is correct for '67/'69, probably so is the pulley.
Interesting. The PS pump pully looks "wrong" (too small) but maybe not. My spares are all in disarray so I can't pull out a pump to check it.
@@AutoRestoMod According to Ford Master Parts, '67 289 Mustang without A/C used a 4 7/8" P/S pulley. Should be stamped AC. With A/C Used 5" pulley stamped AD. I'm using a 7AA pulley on my '69 Fairlane 302, its from a 1968 A/C 390GT. Ford doesn't give size but measures just under 5". That's the system(with Maverick pulley) now on my 428CJ. Offset was wrong for 390 pulley on 428CJ.
Ok so guess I need to re-examine the pullies on the 68 Fairlane for the roadtrip and racing in Sept/Oct.
Yes. LOL, might want to get your head looked at after our chat and you discussing 4.30 to 1 gears for a road trip.
@@AutoRestoMod but that takes all the fun out of it.
Had a buddy that installed a 3.25 gear for cruise/highway and then a 4.56 at race track. Swap back for return trip home.
Definitely have the misalignment on my old 73 coupe. Close but enough off to make a noise.
Our older Suburban was that way until I fixed it.
I have encountered this with Ford multiple times. Why they changed pulley depths and diameters throughout the sixties and seventies is just dumb. It's no surprise why GM was far more successful on their small block platform.
Weirdly we have run into pulley issues with GM stuff too. Specifically water pump and crank stuff.
You showed a horrible pulley/belt misalignment. I must have missed the correction part of the program. Do you have a video on pulley alignment correction procedure?
No. It honestly would be hard to show that as it will be different with every engine and pulley combo. But that isn't a bad idea.
@@AutoRestoMod Personal experience was by the school of skinned knuckles. Correcting misaligned pulleys can be very tedious.
Two things. First is there a chart somewhere that gives you the correct ratio? My math isn’t good either but isn’t the alternator turning 3 to 1 with the crank instead of.31? Second (see I told you my math is not so great) , I changed out 2 new alternators and 3 alternator pulleys trying to get an alternator to stop squealing. Turned out to be a bent crank pulley. Thanks for the great videos.
I will work on one and see if we can't put it up on the web page.
It should be stressed that there are many many variations of Ford accessory pulleys…they made multiple changes just within single model years, you have to go by the numbers on them, very important😀
That is true. I've been researching brakes and Ford did the same thing there too.
Been swapping Ford engines since late '60s. As long as puillies are aligned, I've never worried about diameters, no issues. Water pump and crank pulleys on my '69 Fairlane are so close can't fold a sheet of printer paper 4x slip it into space. May have been 1/8" space on orig.
Yes drive it in traffic. Cruise night traffic. 50 year old crusier must find a cruise night somewhere.
Oh those cruise night jams are the best worst: Best all cool cars, worst: all cool cars that are stalling, overheating, and causing jams.
For any alternator over 95A you need a dual v-belt system, or you get a squeaky belt. One v-belt doesn't get enough traction to consistently pull the larger units. That is the recommendation from PA Performance. One alternative is to switch to a serpentine (which has a wider belt), but that usually means dropping the stock fan blade and going with electric fans. I prefer the stock look, so I don't run anything over 95A, and really I don't have need for more amps- I think the stock alternator on my old mustang was 38 amps.
Good stuff there!
Compound Toilet Roll - CTR. 😂
Complete Tootsie Roll!
I have experienced Ford has many different pulley systems cuz there's nine different 302 engines
Second today
I will always be first. So...that makes you third. 😂