Great video. Watched the whole thing. Zach should be featured more! I have Zombicide 2nd Edition and can play missions back to back repeatedly with no issue. My girlfriend and I made a custom mission with 16 tiles and 4 spawn points and lost miserably 4 times in a row then finally won on the 5th try. So fun. I haven't played any other Z version but, for me, the theme, art and pop-cultural characters from 2nd Edition are my fave.
The easy answer is one should own BOTH for the value of crossover content. I found many of your points good ones. However, I think one critical element makes your comparisons not apples to apples. Zombicide Black Plague was from the OG Zcide days of ultra hard/dangerous tuned design. That has slipped over time in many of the CMON games. Including MD2. If MD2 were tweaked just a hair, it would better provide the "omg remember when" stories. Alternatively if you play a more recent Zcide, such as Invader, you will find those story moments lacking as it is fairly easy to make it to the end no fuss or worse see there is no way to lose, but you have more than an hour to go. I think if the difficulty of MD2 is tweaked just a bit, those monsters will stand out a lot more. Yes, classes are huge, but so is the difference between an Imp, Nymph, or Naga (er, "handy snake"). If the heroes are too strong, or not enough claw rolls, that gets lost though. Personally, I add a black die such that Leaders and RMs get one too. I also bump the green 3+ portal down to 2+. At 2 to 3 players, stories and enemy flavor jump out a lot more then. Yes, Zcide is easy on the fatigue but it is so because it's both light and low decision space (MD2 is just light). But yes, the single role resolution of Zcide has oomf and the funnels of zombies are fun. Overall, I could not give up the loot, classes, level up, RMs, unique mobs, or the combat system that doesn't just boil down solving positional puzzles in regards to 1/2/3 damage weapon tiers. Both are good games. I cant see MD2 ever leaving my collection. Zcide, maybe someday, or maybe it just gets replaced by the best one (or 3) zcide game(s) for the horde theme or broader gaming group appeal.
Great video. The mention of the amount of energy it takes to play Massive Darkness (how you feel spent after completing a game of Massive Darkness) is something I haven't heard mentioned before.
I am glad you covered this--I wanted to love Massive Darkness but it's a little fiddley and enemies rarely stay in the dungeon long enough for tactical decisions to matter, I think Chronicles of Drunagor is a better class-based dungeon crawler (and it's not perfect either). Massive Darkness feels too much like a hallway you walk through and you quickly outrank everything around you so the challenge disappears. Zombicide (depending on the scenario) feels much more open and if the difficulty is there you feel pressure to figure out how to get the objectives and escape. You can even tell when you guys are talking about Zombicide that is the game that gives the more explosive moments, the higher highs...you both sounded more excited by that game. Even though I never cared about the zombie theme and I avoided Zombicide forever...I've discovered...Zombicide (especially with expansions and mods to get your preferred difficulty) is awesome. :)
It's definitely a good time. I'm really glad we played both because I was able to remember why it's fun and not be completely distracted by the new shiny thing, haha. But I do really love those classes on MD2 :)
You covered up exactly what I have in mind. Zombicide feels much more tactical, because you can actually kite zombies and hide from their los. In MD2 mobs just run to the closest hero, no matter if he hide in room and another hero is in their los. You feel like on a hayway and sooner or later you have to fight through mobs. In most missions there is also no point to go back to room you've already cleaned. Zombicide feels much more like an open space or like a sandbox. Another thing...classes. Tbh after some missions im bored. You can buy new add-ons with new heroes, but every single wizard have the same spells. Every single rogues have the same tools. The only differences is in their shadow perk and health/mana pool. In Zombicide again you can have many heroes focused on magic spells and their skills tree are totally different from each other. Im not gonna sell my base MD2 but in the same time I'm more likely to invest more money into Zombicide ;) (For now I have Black Plague, Wulfsburg, Friends and Foes, Abomination Pack and Walkers with bows)
Awesome review and I very much appreciate the length and depth of it. One small suggestion: English is a foreign language to me and I had trouble to understand every point you very making. It would be nice if you could add the key arguments in text. That would help me a lot.
Great comparison and conversation, didn't want the video to end it was fun just listening to y'all talk. Glad you grabbed your other battery and kept going, release the Zak files
Hi, thank you for the great content I really enjoy this discussions that you have with Zach which is awesome content. I watch this and the Nemesis discussion back to back. What I most like about your discussions is that it's natural like a conversation with friends should be like. I wish you success as I would like to see more of your content in the future
Thanks! I was weighing my options forever, but you’ve helped me make my final decision: I’m getting Zombicide, Massive Darkness, and Cthulhu Death May Die 🤦♂️
If you guys have all the Zombicide stuff, highly recommend the crossover kits. Table bloat becomes a bit of a nightmare but the random possibilities it opens up are awesome. Great video.
Great video. I don’t think I enjoy Zombicide but this was such a passionate championing of the system I’m doubting myself! Just bought massive darkness!
Keep talking guys. Thanks for the in depth comparison. I have Black Plague with Marvel Zombies on the way but STILL want more! Massive Darkness 2 is really appealing for the more robust but not too complex upgrading and the classes.
Thank you for the comparaison. My big issue with Md2 is that it feels really like a 2 player games. We tried it at 4 and most of the time, player 3 and 4 did not have anything to do. The game is so easy and the heroes are so powerful, that whoever goes first, usually deals with all monster in one turn (except perhaps the first 2 combats)... It ended up managing players turn to let everyone have a bite at the apple. Perhaps we should have split the team earlier in the scenario, but not all scenarios allow it easily (narrow pathways and such). We did not have that issue with 2 players.
This was an entertaining and informative comparison! I'm eagerly awaiting Marvel Zombies and thinking of picking up Massive Darkness 2 to tide me over. Sounds like theyre different enough to warrant having both in my collection. Thanks for the info!
I don't even understand why when people think of Zombicide, they automatically think of Black Plague. It wasn't even the first iteration of Zombicide! Massive Darkness 2 is by far the better game and this is from someone who has played all of CMON's games, not just the ones starting from BP!
we love zombicide(s) - we have access to all of the versions in our game group. its a bit surprizing how different they all are. I also have both MDarknesses. just picked up number 2 and really excited to delve into it
I recently snagged Zombicide Black Plague for pretty cheap, I would love to see how Zach color coded his zombies! I'll probably buy MD2 down the road as well, then I get to paint both of them and sell whichever one I don't prefer.
Having finally played MD2 I think it has a v different feel to the Zombicide. Z has a feeling of horror and being overwhelmed by the swarm. MD2 feels more swashbuckling action than horror (despite the theme) and feels more light hearted. I appreciate the loot, leveling and class minigames in MD2 a lot. But I do miss the Z theme
Never played any of the two but after looking at this video, i'm more interested by MD2. I like the theme more and the different classes sound really interesting ! You did a really good job on explaining both games !
i was wondering whether to get md2 as i love zombicide but i think that, instead i may play around with some of the zombicide mechanics, perhaps seperating item cards into different strengths of weapons so you can only access certain weapons at certain levels and maybe have ways or places where you can trade in a number of weapons for stronger weapons or for dragon bile etc. so thanks for the ideas. btw i really enjoyed the chat. thanks.
I would be interested to see these vs Cthulhu: Death May Die (My dice chucking monster killing game of choice) but I'm betting that all of these are interchangeable in that slot.
I haven't played MD2, but I vastly prefer Death May Die over Zombicide. The sanity mechanism in DMD is one of my favorites. (I really love the original implementation as corruption in The Others too.) I like the ability unlocks in DMD, it feels more open than Zombicide leveling. I also like that the power growth in DMD is pushing your character closer and closer to insanity.
@@VaultBoy13 I agree with all of that, I also prefer the crescendo to the big boss fight, the ability to go out in a blaze of glory, and also that you don't have to kill in one hit like you do in Zombicide. And the insanity cards and how you use them can be really cool too.
Loved the video, aka clean my house sound track. Based on hearing your descriptions of the games, but without having played either one myself, I would summarize the arguments made as "Massive Darkness 2 is the better game, but Zombiecide is the better experience". What I mean by that is the difference in the ways the characters play and progress in Massive Darkness 2 sounds like a more fulfilling mechanical experience with interesting decisions, but that we all love running from and then murdering a horde of zombies (while chunking fistfuls of dice).
6 heroes is Not enough, even if the heroes are fairly similar. I think 2E with 12 heroes and 4 abominations was a perfect core box experience. Really helps fight that fomo of feeling like you missed out on those SG’s. I really don’t need 50 heroes, but a little choice is amazing for replay ability. I skipped Massive Darkness and might look into picking it up after all this hype :D
I really have been enjoying it. Haven't gotten it to the table since then but will be aching too soon I'm sure. Even a non KS massive darkness I think gives ample enough of an experience, so you don't have to track down a super overpriced copy
Great video, very good comparison between the two games. I have Zombicide, and thinking to change it for Massive Darkness 2, mainly because of the classes. Before the video I was sure MD2 is the one I need, but hearing all this, now I am not sure if I really want to replace it :) Thank you with the review, makes me think it over again, not going blind into the change (and may regret it later).
This is the review I wish I had seen before buying massive darkness. I probably would have still bought it, just wish I knew more what I was getting into.
I'd definitely say you don't HAVE to own both, I don't think I'd have the desire to pick up Zombicide even if Zach didn't have it, but I think it's not as much of a Zombicide killer as I expected it to be after the first play
Question have you guys tried throwing all the Zombicide abom expansions you have into one game session? I'm asking as my groups only played black plague like this with a 9x9 tile setup and custom scenarios and wondered if anyone else mostly plays this way. 🤔
the best way i have found to play black plague/green hoard with expansion content is to pick no more then about three things to add at once. usually 1 special aboninaton and then 1 or 2 special zombies/necromancers. i have played by just sticking a ton of abominations and diffrent zombies into the deck, and it is ok but not the best experience. the rule you need to remember is that when you draw a card and you cant place more of the zombie/abomination onto the board, then the zombies of that type on the baord get an activation. This is super important for the balance and tension of the game. in the mid and late game you will run out of a zombie type, often walkers or fatties first, and they will start flying across the map with extra activations. This goes for abominations as well, most of the expansion abominations have like 8 cards, every time you draw their card and they are alive on the baord they will activate. this makes them super active and dangerous. But if you dilute the zombie deck with a ton of abominations and extra zombies... you are actually slowing down the game. 5 slowly plodding abominations on the map is far less exiting or difficult then one abomination that activates 3 times in a row unexpectedly. in the game chris and i played for this video, all the archer zombies got onto the board and we had been avoiding the street full of archers becuase we had no solution to them. those archers started hustling around the board and that felt really cool and dangerous. the special mechanics of that one zombie type got to shine becuase it was the only special zombie type in the game, which meant it spawned more often, got extra activations and affected the flow of the game much more then if we had used all the special zombies. a few random archers mixed with a bunch of other special zombies in a square is ultimately less of a challenge and also less interesting. but you do you. zombie your game to taste. if you have the expansion then you have the flexability to tailer the experience to your desire
Uhh... what Zach said! Haha, we definitely were playing with everything before, but Zach reminding me of that rule really did make a big difference in the endgame, which I think is important to keeping it feeling tense.
Ink drop is very easy. It’s mostly a time commitment and I’m not the best at priming anything. I don’t like ruining detail on the minis with too much priming. I get picky like that so I get some Games Workshop minis and practice before trying anything new.
I am super happy to own Massive Darkness 2 all in. I don't personally feel the need to own any other light dungeon crawler. They tend to be super pricey and amazingly space hungry...
They definitely do. I feel like it would take a lot to get another one in just because of the space, and because I still want to spend time with this one.
I've never played black plague unfortunately. I got into Zombicide playing the classic edition and now own 2nd Ed as well as MD2 (with Undead or Alive on the way). I think you guys did a great job comparing the two. For me I feel that MD2 is a bit more immersive but both games offer a very thematic experience. MD2 is definitely more complex to setup and learn. I would be more inclined to play Zombicide on low energy night because as you mentioned, at the end of a game of MD2, you can feel worn out. I love the heroes and classes in MD2 they are very asymmetric and you can build some fun groups. I would have preferred if MD2 had more of a straight fantasy theme as opposed to heaven/hell but overall I think it's a great game and really glad I backed it.
I feel like most of the zombicides feel pretty similar from the outside, it's just the different weapons. I'm not as big on the changes in Green Horde with the big catapult you can use, but the hedges are a bit fun with that one. I think the train in Undead and Alive looks like a lot of fun too :)
if you can afford it, yes you should own both. and many other wonderfull boardgames out there too. gloomhaven, cthulhu dmd, aftermath, starship captains, etc... if you enjoy gaming and like the game, get it and love it playing.
@@dk9251 Not currently. I really enjoy all the different classes, but I also think the base classes are super fun, so I'd start with the base and then if you like it, the next step for me is for sure the classes. That's what makes it feel so fresh. I doubt I'll get any of the other mob/baddy expansions especially since I have the MD1 update pack, which gave me so so many cards that I'll never get through. But it's new classes over new enemies for sure.
Great conversation! I'm on the Zombicide BP team 😂... For a more complete dungeon crawler, just get Gloomhaven... The simplicity of Zombicide is what attract me the most
This was a fun chat! My son and I have really been loving MD2, and the KS base pledge is more than enough content (though I did grab the Druid as It's my sons favorite class). I haven't played Zombicide in ages, but I'm hoping Marvel Zombies adds a bit to the character variability. It won't be to the level of MD2, but that's fine as it's a different game. Also, you two should do more of these videos!! 🙂
Awesome :) I do love the classes and am very tempted by the Druids. Maybe if I pick ups Heavenfall at some point then I'll throw in the Druid as well because I'll have another box of space haha
@@RoomandBoardReviews the classes are the best part of the game, and the druid seems fun (I've not played it but my son has and enjoyed it). I'm torn in Heavenfall...not big on campaigns, but I like the enemies and bosses. I'll probably grab it if I ever see it on sale.
I started soloing MD2 3-handed, it feels still pretty doable as long as you have enough basegame heroes on board, as they are less thinky (beside the mage). I like that the character skills are so you unique that it takes 2-3 plays to test all the skills and verify the preferred skill tree. I still feel that somehow the leveling up is not great, as you start each hero very unprotected to backlash while in the last quarter it seems your heroes really outgrow the enemies and the just spawn and die. Waiting for my Zombicide DoA pledge to try this one too :)
Final thought: I'm glad than I back the all in of MD2 cause I love Zombicides (BP + GH + all exp.). Both are almost same level of difficulty (2.5/5 vs 2.57/5) so I'll be able to introduce any friends to it since I know the rules. Didn't receive MD2 yet cause I took it in French language and like we know, French are always 6 months later for French Canadians... but its another subject. (CMON & AR)
Oh you're going to have SO much content for MD2 when it gets there! I'm excited and terrified for you haha. But yeah it's really been a lot of fun so far
Gameplay has improved quite a bit from MD1, but I liked the generic fantasy theme of Md1 better than heaven/hell theme. The good news is that I have all the conversion packs from the Kickstarter. I also have three versions of zombicide that I’ll likely never part with: OG (good for noobs and it’s so well worn that I’m not uptight playing it with food/drinks around); black plague (love the theme and it’s just hard enough), and undead or alive (hardest zombicide that I’ve played). UoA needs some of the abomination expansions to feel complete. Oh and cmon, what’s up with not reprinting the damn crowz expansion?!
I'm still waiting on mine to arrive, however, I already picked up the demon dragon, heavenfall, and the four horsemen, I really feel that I am going to enjoy this game so much.
I'm loving my copy of Massive Darkness 2 so far. Haven't had the chance to try a Zombicide game yet, though I did end up backing Marvel Zombies (skipping Galactus and a few expansions) in the end so... I'll see how I feel in 3 years when that arrives. Mixed feelings on that one, so MD2 is already starting from a high point. 😅
Haha, I think Marvel Zombies will give you that same Zombicide experience, and I think they'll be different enough for different situations. But yeah, really been loving MD2 as well, I'm glad you're enjoying it!
Just for reference, I own both and love both, but I just wanted to see you two banter lol As a side note, with my partner, I'm happy to play either, but when it comes to my family or his, zombicide wins hands down. Massive Darkness is just too much to learn for them (mainly the class system), and while they've played games with action points before, it's kinda hard to wrap your head around those "actions" that aren't really actions, but let you do a lot of stuff, you know?
100% I agree with you. That's what contributes to that energy factor, just keeping track of everything. Zombicide is for sure easier to table and easier to grasp. I also can't imagine playing MD2 with more than 3 people. Six would just be an outrageous amount.
@@RoomandBoardReviews yeah, I definitely wouldn't play MD2 with more than 3 people, but man, is the class system so much fun. Btw, does Zac have a channel or video where I can see the painted zombicide minis? I want to eventually paint mine as well!
This was really helpful to me, as I am considering picking up the base game of zombicide green horde or the base game of massive darkness 2. I think Massive Darkness might be the winner so far.
I don't. I just got the base pledge, which came with the class expansions and the crossover pack from the 1st game, and that I think it so so much content to last me a long while. I would be more interested in picking up the Druid class and the Heavenfall campaign mode first, for being able to level up to level 10
I can't wait for Marvel Zombies!!!!!! (I went crazy and went All In!) MD2 looks very intriguing. I can definitely see the argument for owning both - but since they are such space hungry games, I will probably stick to MZ - I just want a friend to get MD2 so I can have the best of both worlds.
My wife en me played the hug bear bos fight .. boss fight it self was only te first round and it was already dead.. was fun one round..but we expected more of this fight ☹️🤪
Haha thanks! I think the quackening is happening over on The "Affordable Board Game Deathmatch" video, just fyi. Don't want you to miss your chance for the giveaway.
You guys can talk games all day. I just speed it up to 2X so you sound like the micro machine commercial guy. Lol 😂 I just showed my age. I don’t have either game of coarse I have zombicide undead coming from Kickstarter if it will ever come. What is the best version of zombicide?
Personally I'm more interested in Undead or Alive instead of Marvel Zombies because the setting is more fun for me, or maybe I just don't have that many westerns haha.
Your conversation about how much you talk and how long the video is because of how much you talk took far too long. Next time leave that out, it'll shorten the video a bit atleast. Hyperbowl!
Zack should be on more often. The conversational approach suits this channel.
So many people dont like the heaven and hell theme, I love it, I think it's not explored enough in games in general
Yeah I agree, that's what helps sell me on it being Diablo the board game as well.
Deliverance is one of the best heaven and hell themed games out there. Strongly suggest buying it asap.
Great video. Watched the whole thing. Zach should be featured more!
I have Zombicide 2nd Edition and can play missions back to back repeatedly with no issue. My girlfriend and I made a custom mission with 16 tiles and 4 spawn points and lost miserably 4 times in a row then finally won on the 5th try. So fun.
I haven't played any other Z version but, for me, the theme, art and pop-cultural characters from 2nd Edition are my fave.
I plan on it, I love hanging out with him :)
Very happy to watch something of this length when you both go into the depth that you do. Great video
Thanks so much, much appreciated :)
The easy answer is one should own BOTH for the value of crossover content. I found many of your points good ones. However, I think one critical element makes your comparisons not apples to apples. Zombicide Black Plague was from the OG Zcide days of ultra hard/dangerous tuned design. That has slipped over time in many of the CMON games. Including MD2. If MD2 were tweaked just a hair, it would better provide the "omg remember when" stories. Alternatively if you play a more recent Zcide, such as Invader, you will find those story moments lacking as it is fairly easy to make it to the end no fuss or worse see there is no way to lose, but you have more than an hour to go. I think if the difficulty of MD2 is tweaked just a bit, those monsters will stand out a lot more. Yes, classes are huge, but so is the difference between an Imp, Nymph, or Naga (er, "handy snake"). If the heroes are too strong, or not enough claw rolls, that gets lost though. Personally, I add a black die such that Leaders and RMs get one too. I also bump the green 3+ portal down to 2+. At 2 to 3 players, stories and enemy flavor jump out a lot more then.
Yes, Zcide is easy on the fatigue but it is so because it's both light and low decision space (MD2 is just light). But yes, the single role resolution of Zcide has oomf and the funnels of zombies are fun. Overall, I could not give up the loot, classes, level up, RMs, unique mobs, or the combat system that doesn't just boil down solving positional puzzles in regards to 1/2/3 damage weapon tiers. Both are good games. I cant see MD2 ever leaving my collection. Zcide, maybe someday, or maybe it just gets replaced by the best one (or 3) zcide game(s) for the horde theme or broader gaming group appeal.
Great video. The mention of the amount of energy it takes to play Massive Darkness (how you feel spent after completing a game of Massive Darkness) is something I haven't heard mentioned before.
I am glad you covered this--I wanted to love Massive Darkness but it's a little fiddley and enemies rarely stay in the dungeon long enough for tactical decisions to matter, I think Chronicles of Drunagor is a better class-based dungeon crawler (and it's not perfect either). Massive Darkness feels too much like a hallway you walk through and you quickly outrank everything around you so the challenge disappears. Zombicide (depending on the scenario) feels much more open and if the difficulty is there you feel pressure to figure out how to get the objectives and escape. You can even tell when you guys are talking about Zombicide that is the game that gives the more explosive moments, the higher highs...you both sounded more excited by that game. Even though I never cared about the zombie theme and I avoided Zombicide forever...I've discovered...Zombicide (especially with expansions and mods to get your preferred difficulty) is awesome. :)
It's definitely a good time. I'm really glad we played both because I was able to remember why it's fun and not be completely distracted by the new shiny thing, haha. But I do really love those classes on MD2 :)
You covered up exactly what I have in mind. Zombicide feels much more tactical, because you can actually kite zombies and hide from their los. In MD2 mobs just run to the closest hero, no matter if he hide in room and another hero is in their los. You feel like on a hayway and sooner or later you have to fight through mobs. In most missions there is also no point to go back to room you've already cleaned. Zombicide feels much more like an open space or like a sandbox.
Another thing...classes. Tbh after some missions im bored. You can buy new add-ons with new heroes, but every single wizard have the same spells. Every single rogues have the same tools. The only differences is in their shadow perk and health/mana pool. In Zombicide again you can have many heroes focused on magic spells and their skills tree are totally different from each other. Im not gonna sell my base MD2 but in the same time I'm more likely to invest more money into Zombicide ;) (For now I have Black Plague, Wulfsburg, Friends and Foes, Abomination Pack and Walkers with bows)
Awesome review and I very much appreciate the length and depth of it. One small suggestion: English is a foreign language to me and I had trouble to understand every point you very making. It would be nice if you could add the key arguments in text. That would help me a lot.
No complaints on length here. Great conversation style.
Thanks :) That's great to know.
Great comparison and conversation, didn't want the video to end it was fun just listening to y'all talk. Glad you grabbed your other battery and kept going, release the Zak files
haha, we need to get that trending! #ReleasetheZfiles
Hi, thank you for the great content I really enjoy this discussions that you have with Zach which is awesome content. I watch this and the Nemesis discussion back to back. What I most like about your discussions is that it's natural like a conversation with friends should be like. I wish you success as I would like to see more of your content in the future
Nice vid and comparison, and huzzah heads up the next C'mon kickstarter is for Black Plague , so don't miss it! 😊
Is there a place we can see those awesome painted minis you speak of ;)
Thanks! I was weighing my options forever, but you’ve helped me make my final decision: I’m getting Zombicide, Massive Darkness, and Cthulhu Death May Die 🤦♂️
If you guys have all the Zombicide stuff, highly recommend the crossover kits. Table bloat becomes a bit of a nightmare but the random possibilities it opens up are awesome. Great video.
Great video. I don’t think I enjoy Zombicide but this was such a passionate championing of the system I’m doubting myself!
Just bought massive darkness!
Yeah, I’m enjoying the laid back conversation and length. No issue with it from my perspective.
The people want more Zach. Great conversation.
Keep talking guys. Thanks for the in depth comparison. I have Black Plague with Marvel Zombies on the way but STILL want more! Massive Darkness 2 is really appealing for the more robust but not too complex upgrading and the classes.
I like this indepth take on games by you two. I don't mind that it takes longer.
This is a very informative video. I really enjoyed it! Subscribed
I was looking for something like zombicide but woth more depth so this was helpful
Could've made this a 2 hour video if you tossed in Cthulhu: Death May Die into the mix 😉
Very enjoyable discussion, none the less.
Thank you for the comparaison. My big issue with Md2 is that it feels really like a 2 player games. We tried it at 4 and most of the time, player 3 and 4 did not have anything to do. The game is so easy and the heroes are so powerful, that whoever goes first, usually deals with all monster in one turn (except perhaps the first 2 combats)... It ended up managing players turn to let everyone have a bite at the apple. Perhaps we should have split the team earlier in the scenario, but not all scenarios allow it easily (narrow pathways and such). We did not have that issue with 2 players.
This was an entertaining and informative comparison! I'm eagerly awaiting Marvel Zombies and thinking of picking up Massive Darkness 2 to tide me over. Sounds like theyre different enough to warrant having both in my collection. Thanks for the info!
I don't even understand why when people think of Zombicide, they automatically think of Black Plague. It wasn't even the first iteration of Zombicide! Massive Darkness 2 is by far the better game and this is from someone who has played all of CMON's games, not just the ones starting from BP!
we love zombicide(s) - we have access to all of the versions in our game group. its a bit surprizing how different they all are. I also have both MDarknesses. just picked up number 2 and really excited to delve into it
I recently snagged Zombicide Black Plague for pretty cheap, I would love to see how Zach color coded his zombies!
I'll probably buy MD2 down the road as well, then I get to paint both of them and sell whichever one I don't prefer.
Great discussion here, interesting points
great discussion guys, extremely helpful!
Awesome video, enjoyed the back and forth
Where does Cthulhu death may die fall for you guys?
Having finally played MD2 I think it has a v different feel to the Zombicide. Z has a feeling of horror and being overwhelmed by the swarm. MD2 feels more swashbuckling action than horror (despite the theme) and feels more light hearted.
I appreciate the loot, leveling and class minigames in MD2 a lot. But I do miss the Z theme
Never played any of the two but after looking at this video, i'm more interested by MD2. I like the theme more and the different classes sound really interesting ! You did a really good job on explaining both games !
i was wondering whether to get md2 as i love zombicide but i think that, instead i may play around with some of the zombicide mechanics, perhaps seperating item cards into different strengths of weapons so you can only access certain weapons at certain levels and maybe have ways or places where you can trade in a number of weapons for stronger weapons or for dragon bile etc. so thanks for the ideas. btw i really enjoyed the chat. thanks.
I'm glad you enjoyed! And that's a great idea, what a really nice twist for Zombicide, I think definitely go for it :)
I would be interested to see these vs Cthulhu: Death May Die (My dice chucking monster killing game of choice) but I'm betting that all of these are interchangeable in that slot.
I haven't played MD2, but I vastly prefer Death May Die over Zombicide. The sanity mechanism in DMD is one of my favorites. (I really love the original implementation as corruption in The Others too.) I like the ability unlocks in DMD, it feels more open than Zombicide leveling. I also like that the power growth in DMD is pushing your character closer and closer to insanity.
@@VaultBoy13 I agree with all of that, I also prefer the crescendo to the big boss fight, the ability to go out in a blaze of glory, and also that you don't have to kill in one hit like you do in Zombicide. And the insanity cards and how you use them can be really cool too.
Thanks for doing this video dudes. It was exactly what I was looking for, and I appreciated the thoroughness! Subscribed.
Great video! But I am annoyed at how many ads I had to watch in this video… I was at 4-5 within the first 22 mins
Loved the video, aka clean my house sound track.
Based on hearing your descriptions of the games, but without having played either one myself, I would summarize the arguments made as "Massive Darkness 2 is the better game, but Zombiecide is the better experience". What I mean by that is the difference in the ways the characters play and progress in Massive Darkness 2 sounds like a more fulfilling mechanical experience with interesting decisions, but that we all love running from and then murdering a horde of zombies (while chunking fistfuls of dice).
6 heroes is Not enough, even if the heroes are fairly similar. I think 2E with 12 heroes and 4 abominations was a perfect core box experience. Really helps fight that fomo of feeling like you missed out on those SG’s. I really don’t need 50 heroes, but a little choice is amazing for replay ability. I skipped Massive Darkness and might look into picking it up after all this hype :D
I really have been enjoying it. Haven't gotten it to the table since then but will be aching too soon I'm sure. Even a non KS massive darkness I think gives ample enough of an experience, so you don't have to track down a super overpriced copy
Great video, very good comparison between the two games. I have Zombicide, and thinking to change it for Massive Darkness 2, mainly because of the classes. Before the video I was sure MD2 is the one I need, but hearing all this, now I am not sure if I really want to replace it :) Thank you with the review, makes me think it over again, not going blind into the change (and may regret it later).
Awesome, I'm glad it's helpful :)
This is the review I wish I had seen before buying massive darkness. I probably would have still bought it, just wish I knew more what I was getting into.
Before I watched this: "You have to own both!"
Well, let's see, what the future offers us in this video...
I'd definitely say you don't HAVE to own both, I don't think I'd have the desire to pick up Zombicide even if Zach didn't have it, but I think it's not as much of a Zombicide killer as I expected it to be after the first play
Question have you guys tried throwing all the Zombicide abom expansions you have into one game session? I'm asking as my groups only played black plague like this with a 9x9 tile setup and custom scenarios and wondered if anyone else mostly plays this way. 🤔
the best way i have found to play black plague/green hoard with expansion content is to pick no more then about three things to add at once. usually 1 special aboninaton and then 1 or 2 special zombies/necromancers. i have played by just sticking a ton of abominations and diffrent zombies into the deck, and it is ok but not the best experience.
the rule you need to remember is that when you draw a card and you cant place more of the zombie/abomination onto the board, then the zombies of that type on the baord get an activation. This is super important for the balance and tension of the game. in the mid and late game you will run out of a zombie type, often walkers or fatties first, and they will start flying across the map with extra activations. This goes for abominations as well, most of the expansion abominations have like 8 cards, every time you draw their card and they are alive on the baord they will activate. this makes them super active and dangerous. But if you dilute the zombie deck with a ton of abominations and extra zombies... you are actually slowing down the game. 5 slowly plodding abominations on the map is far less exiting or difficult then one abomination that activates 3 times in a row unexpectedly.
in the game chris and i played for this video, all the archer zombies got onto the board and we had been avoiding the street full of archers becuase we had no solution to them. those archers started hustling around the board and that felt really cool and dangerous. the special mechanics of that one zombie type got to shine becuase it was the only special zombie type in the game, which meant it spawned more often, got extra activations and affected the flow of the game much more then if we had used all the special zombies. a few random archers mixed with a bunch of other special zombies in a square is ultimately less of a challenge and also less interesting.
but you do you. zombie your game to taste. if you have the expansion then you have the flexability to tailer the experience to your desire
Uhh... what Zach said!
Haha, we definitely were playing with everything before, but Zach reminding me of that rule really did make a big difference in the endgame, which I think is important to keeping it feeling tense.
Ink drop is very easy. It’s mostly a time commitment and I’m not the best at priming anything. I don’t like ruining detail on the minis with too much priming. I get picky like that so I get some Games Workshop minis and practice before trying anything new.
I am super happy to own Massive Darkness 2 all in. I don't personally feel the need to own any other light dungeon crawler. They tend to be super pricey and amazingly space hungry...
They definitely do. I feel like it would take a lot to get another one in just because of the space, and because I still want to spend time with this one.
I've never played black plague unfortunately. I got into Zombicide playing the classic edition and now own 2nd Ed as well as MD2 (with Undead or Alive on the way). I think you guys did a great job comparing the two. For me I feel that MD2 is a bit more immersive but both games offer a very thematic experience. MD2 is definitely more complex to setup and learn. I would be more inclined to play Zombicide on low energy night because as you mentioned, at the end of a game of MD2, you can feel worn out. I love the heroes and classes in MD2 they are very asymmetric and you can build some fun groups. I would have preferred if MD2 had more of a straight fantasy theme as opposed to heaven/hell but overall I think it's a great game and really glad I backed it.
I feel like most of the zombicides feel pretty similar from the outside, it's just the different weapons. I'm not as big on the changes in Green Horde with the big catapult you can use, but the hedges are a bit fun with that one. I think the train in Undead and Alive looks like a lot of fun too :)
if you can afford it, yes you should own both. and many other wonderfull boardgames out there too. gloomhaven, cthulhu dmd, aftermath, starship captains, etc... if you enjoy gaming and like the game, get it and love it playing.
Just discovered this channel and you've convinced me to buy MD2. Love longform discussions like this so subbed.
Thanks! I hope you love it, we've been really enjoying it.
@@RoomandBoardReviews Are there any expansions that you consider to be must own?
@@dk9251 Not currently. I really enjoy all the different classes, but I also think the base classes are super fun, so I'd start with the base and then if you like it, the next step for me is for sure the classes. That's what makes it feel so fresh. I doubt I'll get any of the other mob/baddy expansions especially since I have the MD1 update pack, which gave me so so many cards that I'll never get through. But it's new classes over new enemies for sure.
Great conversation! I'm on the Zombicide BP team 😂... For a more complete dungeon crawler, just get Gloomhaven... The simplicity of Zombicide is what attract me the most
More videos like this, please. I enjoyed this comparison.
This was a fun chat! My son and I have really been loving MD2, and the KS base pledge is more than enough content (though I did grab the Druid as It's my sons favorite class).
I haven't played Zombicide in ages, but I'm hoping Marvel Zombies adds a bit to the character variability. It won't be to the level of MD2, but that's fine as it's a different game.
Also, you two should do more of these videos!! 🙂
Awesome :) I do love the classes and am very tempted by the Druids. Maybe if I pick ups Heavenfall at some point then I'll throw in the Druid as well because I'll have another box of space haha
@@RoomandBoardReviews the classes are the best part of the game, and the druid seems fun (I've not played it but my son has and enjoyed it).
I'm torn in Heavenfall...not big on campaigns, but I like the enemies and bosses. I'll probably grab it if I ever see it on sale.
I started soloing MD2 3-handed, it feels still pretty doable as long as you have enough basegame heroes on board, as they are less thinky (beside the mage).
I like that the character skills are so you unique that it takes 2-3 plays to test all the skills and verify the preferred skill tree.
I still feel that somehow the leveling up is not great, as you start each hero very unprotected to backlash while in the last quarter it seems your heroes really outgrow the enemies and the just spawn and die.
Waiting for my Zombicide DoA pledge to try this one too :)
Final thought: I'm glad than I back the all in of MD2 cause I love Zombicides (BP + GH + all exp.). Both are almost same level of difficulty (2.5/5 vs 2.57/5) so I'll be able to introduce any friends to it since I know the rules.
Didn't receive MD2 yet cause I took it in French language and like we know, French are always 6 months later for French Canadians... but its another subject. (CMON & AR)
Oh you're going to have SO much content for MD2 when it gets there! I'm excited and terrified for you haha. But yeah it's really been a lot of fun so far
Gameplay has improved quite a bit from MD1, but I liked the generic fantasy theme of Md1 better than heaven/hell theme. The good news is that I have all the conversion packs from the Kickstarter. I also have three versions of zombicide that I’ll likely never part with: OG (good for noobs and it’s so well worn that I’m not uptight playing it with food/drinks around); black plague (love the theme and it’s just hard enough), and undead or alive (hardest zombicide that I’ve played). UoA needs some of the abomination expansions to feel complete. Oh and cmon, what’s up with not reprinting the damn crowz expansion?!
Thanks, this was great
Yes, you should buy both.
So here we are a year later … do you still love massive darkness?
Go watch my top 10 ;)
How does mass of darkness compare against Madera or gloom haven or descent?
Zombicide I don't have to relearn how to play every time I sit down with it.
I'm still waiting on mine to arrive, however, I already picked up the demon dragon, heavenfall, and the four horsemen, I really feel that I am going to enjoy this game so much.
Awesome! Heavenfall is so so tempting to me, just to go up to level 10 haha
@@RoomandBoardReviews yes and add that mix and match campaign
I'm loving my copy of Massive Darkness 2 so far. Haven't had the chance to try a Zombicide game yet, though I did end up backing Marvel Zombies (skipping Galactus and a few expansions) in the end so... I'll see how I feel in 3 years when that arrives. Mixed feelings on that one, so MD2 is already starting from a high point. 😅
Haha, I think Marvel Zombies will give you that same Zombicide experience, and I think they'll be different enough for different situations. But yeah, really been loving MD2 as well, I'm glad you're enjoying it!
Exact same situation here. Marvel Zombies will be my first Zombicide. Pretty big fan of MD2 so far
Just for reference, I own both and love both, but I just wanted to see you two banter lol
As a side note, with my partner, I'm happy to play either, but when it comes to my family or his, zombicide wins hands down. Massive Darkness is just too much to learn for them (mainly the class system), and while they've played games with action points before, it's kinda hard to wrap your head around those "actions" that aren't really actions, but let you do a lot of stuff, you know?
100% I agree with you. That's what contributes to that energy factor, just keeping track of everything. Zombicide is for sure easier to table and easier to grasp. I also can't imagine playing MD2 with more than 3 people. Six would just be an outrageous amount.
@@RoomandBoardReviews yeah, I definitely wouldn't play MD2 with more than 3 people, but man, is the class system so much fun. Btw, does Zac have a channel or video where I can see the painted zombicide minis? I want to eventually paint mine as well!
Alright fine! I'll keep my MD2 pledge! Gosh! Lol. Now to unload this pallet worth of game from its shipping boxes..
Haha, it's such a big haul.
What about cthulhu DMD?
I have not played it sadly. But I think Chris backed it so hopefully we can rectify that soonish
This was really helpful to me, as I am considering picking up the base game of zombicide green horde or the base game of massive darkness 2. I think Massive Darkness might be the winner so far.
Yesss, take that Zach!
Seems like MD2 could be a bit more streamlined in it's actions.
Do you own the Demon Dragon or the Four Horsemen expansions?
What are you thoughts about them?
I don't. I just got the base pledge, which came with the class expansions and the crossover pack from the 1st game, and that I think it so so much content to last me a long while. I would be more interested in picking up the Druid class and the Heavenfall campaign mode first, for being able to level up to level 10
I can't wait for Marvel Zombies!!!!!! (I went crazy and went All In!) MD2 looks very intriguing. I can definitely see the argument for owning both - but since they are such space hungry games, I will probably stick to MZ - I just want a friend to get MD2 so I can have the best of both worlds.
Haha, yeah with the all in there's no room for anything else on the shelf, haha
Great video, love both games.
All Beef No Filler
'We have the meats"
My wife en me played the hug bear bos fight .. boss fight it self was only te first round and it was already dead.. was fun one round..but we expected more of this fight ☹️🤪
Man, that's a lot of dungeon crawling. Also, a word from a certain duck: Quack!
Haha thanks! I think the quackening is happening over on The "Affordable Board Game Deathmatch" video, just fyi. Don't want you to miss your chance for the giveaway.
@@RoomandBoardReviews Thanks, I thought I missed something 🙃
@@GrimLocke161 My pleasure!
You both are hilarious!
Have received MD2, got Zombicide Undead or Alive coming...closing this video!!!!!!!!
Haha, that's fair :)
@@RoomandBoardReviews ok...I watched it anyway...seems like I should have 2 great games. Just need to have a decent storage solution...haha
Great discussion, not lenghty at all 👍
After one or two games of zombicide I’m extremely board .
You guys can talk games all day. I just speed it up to 2X so you sound like the micro machine commercial guy. Lol 😂 I just showed my age. I don’t have either game of coarse I have zombicide undead coming from Kickstarter if it will ever come. What is the best version of zombicide?
Personally I'm more interested in Undead or Alive instead of Marvel Zombies because the setting is more fun for me, or maybe I just don't have that many westerns haha.
Death May Die is the correct answer though XD
I own green horde anyone want it painted?
22:55 she got burned XD
Yes, "girth", yes. 🤣
Your conversation about how much you talk and how long the video is because of how much you talk took far too long. Next time leave that out, it'll shorten the video a bit atleast. Hyperbowl!