It's so interesting, because even as he makes to finish himself off, he also leaves a message to help the crew and the ship, as well as leaving his well wishes to his "loved" ones (no feelings). If a robot were to commit suicide, I think this is how he'd do it.
It's common for people who are "on their way out", to impulsively give gifts to the people who matter to them. They want to end their lives, but be remembered fondly or try to somehow lessen the pain they have, or perceive they have caused. Its terrible, the kind of pain that somone who is suicidal goes through. To be so strong that the thought of living with it is a living hell...
Maybe proof Isaac can feel, or you know the fact that they felt enslaved at some point throughout there existence, I don't know I say Kaylon in this series is misunderstood serverely
@@InactiveNightthey somewhat are yeah. Their true reasons for the war wasnt as "cold and unfeeling" as the kaylons tried to make it seem. It was alot more fearful and scared
@@KalraSura and no one understood that, honestly compared to the humans history which I'm suprised Isaac never mentioned we've done much worse for less
Here's the thing about machines like Isaac, he doesn't even hesitate. Some people hesitate, like me. He literally felt that way and immediately shuts himself down to a point of no revival.
Yeah he had to be super deliberate and set on it, specially when a robot's overwhelming drive in their "life" is to complete the tasks they were made for
FWIW, u hesitate for a reason. It's coded in your genetics by the one who created u. It's your body's way of telling u that you're making a Big mistake and to not be a fool
They done fucked him up so bad that he "felt" the way a depressed and suicidal person would think and act by comitting to make others happier. It coulda gone in two different ways with the way they behaved towards him, first was this and the second was he doesnt help them when they need him.
Isaac can’t feel, but he can rationalize emotions. That’s how he learned to love, how he learned to sympathize and care for Marcus and Ty, how he became depressed. He rationalized that he did better with Claire, Marcus, and Ty and they did better with him so he came to the logical conclusion that they would be better together, rationalizing love. He rationalized that killing the crew would achieve nothing as they weren’t a threat and he knew them, so when Kaylon prime wanted to kill Ty he saved him and the crew learning to sympathize with biological life. When he saw the crew was worse off with him on board and that he caused distress for Marcus he rationalized that his death would bring them comfort and they would be better off without him, so he killed himself. Issac never feels emotion, but instead of handwaving it away like another show or movie would do and say that a sentient machine actually does feel emotion they don’t, he uses logic the entire way through. That’s why he’s such an amazing character and why the Orville is amazing, it doesn’t fall for usual sci-fi tropes while also telling a compelling story with great characters and good humor and following old Star Trek’s way of tackling modern societal debates.
It's very touching how the creators of the show portrayed such a sensible situation. A lot of people in real life got in situation like this. The show has shown with a unique sincerity and sensibility the consequences for the people who has to deal with the aftermath. The pain and sorrow shown are very real and painful.
He may not have emotions but you know deep down in that robotic heart, he feels some kind of pain and love,, it may not be traditional feelings but it's there
Such an interesting exploration of suicide. Isaac is a being of logic. While he cares for others in his own way, logic drives his every action. It goes to show, that to people in pain, the most illogical act can seem perfectly rational and necessary.
Men tend to have a logic to suicide when they commit it, it happens when the life is in their viewpoint not worth the pain of living. It is part of why there is often so few signs to warn us, but it makes sense once you get a few years of hindsight.
It brings the idea of logic into an interesting perspective. For the most part, especially the last year or two, my struggle is to hope that I never decide to become selfish enough to stop enduring. Is it logical to endure agony just so society doesn't have to feel uncomfortable?
@@Johnston212 I know what you mean, I know I don’t have the same experience as you but trust me I know depression, I’m here if you wanna talk or need a distraction from your brain
I don’t know why, but this is literally my favorite episode of the series. Like the Orville has had Serious Moments and Topics discussed, but the Start of New Horizons (Season 3) really stopped pulling its punches by starting it off with Isaac’s Suicide because though it presented a serious topic, how would we as humans or of flesh/bone deal with an Artificial Intelligent Life Form or Cyborg, who if we had the time to get to know and eventually get close with, offing themselves?
you know this was one of the parts i liked about the show was taking situations that could never happen in real life like this a robot suicide and making it happen
@@tavairushernandez4588 you could probably find the video somewhere on youtube, but one of those amazon package robots beat itself to death with the box it was meant to be handling
WHO SAYS IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN "REAL" LIFE???? Just wait until AI gets into cars and you are riding in one that has just broken up with its 18 Wheeler BOYFRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!
According to an interview Adrienne Palicki did, they only shot 36 episodes over 3 years. The actors weren't getting paid when they weren't shooting. Apparently, Seth wanted to write all the episodes, but he was stretched too thin with other projects and this one fell through the cracks.
Love the writing in this. It is sad but it did well to acknowledge the sentiments of people around those who attempt/commit it. "I didn't notice." "I thought it didn't bother them." "I didn't know it was that bad."
@@noahv1479 If it helps, they were probably making a huge effort to hide it. Lots of us do when we're that bad, and we have a lot of practice by then. Don't beat yourself up too badly, when someone doesn't want to change, or doesn't want help, it's easy to give off the impression of not NEEDING help
With they way they describ it all. It feels like the human version of this would be him overdosing. "Frying" his pathways (the vains) and memory storage (the brain.) Even if they got him back, he'd be an empty shell (brain dead ) Dame.
Not necessarily. There are instances where someone attempts suicide and actually stop their heart and are technically dead, but manage to be revived. In the show, they have more time because Isaac’s a machine. This episode focuses more on how to respond when an attempt takes place but fails.
@playking667 True, but it seems like a significant amount of time passed before finding Isaac. Most likely, enough time passed that a human would have experienced brain death
Someone needs to go down to Paramount and tell them: "This! This is what Star Trek is supposed to be. Why can't you do this as well as Seth McFarlane? How is the guy behind Family Guy beating you at your own game? Hell, buy the rights to The Orville yourself and fund more episodes."
Verse 1]....Unit 3000-21 Is warming, makes a hummin' sound When its circuits duplicate emotions And a sense of coldness detaches As it tries to comfort your sadness [Chorus] One more robot learns to be Something more than a machine When it tries the way it does Makes it seem like it can love 'Cause it's hard to say what's real When you know the way you feel Is it wrong to think it's love When it tries the way it does? Thank you Flaming Lips
I was going through some stuff and wondering if I wouldn't be better off dead when this episode premiered. It hit hard to see Isaac going through the same process, and Claire's speech at the end was what really got me. It was still hard times for a while after that, but this episode reminded me I needed to keep going.
I don't watch Orville fully because... I cannot buy foreign film, but it is much more sad since this happened after Isaac sacrificied himself, but people still bitter about his betrayal
I feel both sides. Issac was only being loyal and doing as he was told, but managed to not at the last minute. The way they treated him, anyone would choose to go how he did…. However….. He endangered EVERYONE. His actions caused his ostracizing, even if he saved him. They’re entitled to be furious and angry with him. Hell I would too, I don’t care what his reasoning was. It’s just unfortunate and very well written. Edit..... I finally got to this episode.... Marcus went way to effing far. WAY too far.
I’ve been seeing constant clips and shorts of this show, I was about to watch it until one clip spoiled it for me and showed that Isaac died (he was the reason for me wanting to watch the show) but now I have no reason too 🥲😭
@@someone-wh2rb the "revival" was even dumber than the "suicide." And It's a robot, not a "he." And it didn't commit suicide, because it was never alive.
"I offer my best wishes to the Finn family" :(
It's so interesting, because even as he makes to finish himself off, he also leaves a message to help the crew and the ship, as well as leaving his well wishes to his "loved" ones (no feelings). If a robot were to commit suicide, I think this is how he'd do it.
It's common for people who are "on their way out", to impulsively give gifts to the people who matter to them. They want to end their lives, but be remembered fondly or try to somehow lessen the pain they have, or perceive they have caused.
Its terrible, the kind of pain that somone who is suicidal goes through. To be so strong that the thought of living with it is a living hell...
It's a robot, not a "he." And it didn't commit suicide, because it was never alive.
@@kerryedavis
Then what would you call what he did?
@@terminallove3531 maybe self-destruct? The Enterprise didn't "commit suicide" in "Search For Spock," either.
@@kerryedavishe is alive his race is just mechanical and he has the pronouns he/him that everyone addresses him by
Isaac done himself in so Marcus could have a good night sleep.
Maybe proof Isaac can feel, or you know the fact that they felt enslaved at some point throughout there existence, I don't know I say Kaylon in this series is misunderstood serverely
@@InactiveNightthey somewhat are yeah. Their true reasons for the war wasnt as "cold and unfeeling" as the kaylons tried to make it seem. It was alot more fearful and scared
@@KalraSura and no one understood that, honestly compared to the humans history which I'm suprised Isaac never mentioned we've done much worse for less
Here's the thing about machines like Isaac, he doesn't even hesitate. Some people hesitate, like me. He literally felt that way and immediately shuts himself down to a point of no revival.
Yeah he had to be super deliberate and set on it, specially when a robot's overwhelming drive in their "life" is to complete the tasks they were made for
FWIW, u hesitate for a reason. It's coded in your genetics by the one who created u. It's your body's way of telling u that you're making a Big mistake and to not be a fool
It's a robot, not a "he." And it didn't commit suicide, because it was never alive.
" Some people hesitate, like me." -- better luck next time
@@kerryedavismate this is a fictional show also on basis we’re basically just a collection of advanced atoms.
They done fucked him up so bad that he "felt" the way a depressed and suicidal person would think and act by comitting to make others happier. It coulda gone in two different ways with the way they behaved towards him, first was this and the second was he doesnt help them when they need him.
Isaac can’t feel, but he can rationalize emotions. That’s how he learned to love, how he learned to sympathize and care for Marcus and Ty, how he became depressed. He rationalized that he did better with Claire, Marcus, and Ty and they did better with him so he came to the logical conclusion that they would be better together, rationalizing love. He rationalized that killing the crew would achieve nothing as they weren’t a threat and he knew them, so when Kaylon prime wanted to kill Ty he saved him and the crew learning to sympathize with biological life. When he saw the crew was worse off with him on board and that he caused distress for Marcus he rationalized that his death would bring them comfort and they would be better off without him, so he killed himself.
Issac never feels emotion, but instead of handwaving it away like another show or movie would do and say that a sentient machine actually does feel emotion they don’t, he uses logic the entire way through. That’s why he’s such an amazing character and why the Orville is amazing, it doesn’t fall for usual sci-fi tropes while also telling a compelling story with great characters and good humor and following old Star Trek’s way of tackling modern societal debates.
It's very touching how the creators of the show portrayed such a sensible situation. A lot of people in real life got in situation like this. The show has shown with a unique sincerity and sensibility the consequences for the people who has to deal with the aftermath. The pain and sorrow shown are very real and painful.
I never expected them to be able to handle it, but they did and masterfully at that.
He may not have emotions but you know deep down in that robotic heart, he feels some kind of pain and love,, it may not be traditional feelings but it's there
Such an interesting exploration of suicide. Isaac is a being of logic. While he cares for others in his own way, logic drives his every action. It goes to show, that to people in pain, the most illogical act can seem perfectly rational and necessary.
He did this for logical reasons too.
Men tend to have a logic to suicide when they commit it, it happens when the life is in their viewpoint not worth the pain of living. It is part of why there is often so few signs to warn us, but it makes sense once you get a few years of hindsight.
I know what you mean
It brings the idea of logic into an interesting perspective. For the most part, especially the last year or two, my struggle is to hope that I never decide to become selfish enough to stop enduring. Is it logical to endure agony just so society doesn't have to feel uncomfortable?
@@Johnston212 I know what you mean, I know I don’t have the same experience as you but trust me I know depression, I’m here if you wanna talk or need a distraction from your brain
I don’t know why, but this is literally my favorite episode of the series. Like the Orville has had Serious Moments and Topics discussed, but the Start of New Horizons (Season 3) really stopped pulling its punches by starting it off with Isaac’s Suicide because though it presented a serious topic, how would we as humans or of flesh/bone deal with an Artificial Intelligent Life Form or Cyborg, who if we had the time to get to know and eventually get close with, offing themselves?
you know this was one of the parts i liked about the show was taking situations that could never happen in real life like this a robot suicide and making it happen
a robot in real life committed suicide
@@ligmaguy521 can you tell me more about it?
@@tavairushernandez4588 you could probably find the video somewhere on youtube, but one of those amazon package robots beat itself to death with the box it was meant to be handling
WHO SAYS IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN "REAL" LIFE???? Just wait until AI gets into cars and you are riding in one that has just broken up with its 18 Wheeler BOYFRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!
You already forgot the 2017 D.C. security robot drowning.
This scene genuinely hit me hard. Very upsetting. The music/OST was just perfectly played
It's a absolute shame this show failed on Hulu.....
Agreed
According to an interview Adrienne Palicki did, they only shot 36 episodes over 3 years. The actors weren't getting paid when they weren't shooting. Apparently, Seth wanted to write all the episodes, but he was stretched too thin with other projects and this one fell through the cracks.
@@RandomStuff-hh7bk moving from FOX didn't help either.....
@@evilborg True, I didn't have Hulu at the time and figured I'd have to wait for a box set, or something.
Well maybe Disney will keep it revelant. So that when he can Seth can give us a 4th season
"Isaac i cannot believe you committed suicide"
It's a robot, not a "he." And it didn't commit suicide, because it was never alive.
@@kerryedavisleast obvious rage bait
@@kerryedavis Hey guys, I found the bait.
@kerryedavis With all that bait, you think you'd be able to pull something in by now.
Another classic tale of “we sent a robot to humans and they fucking killed him”
Like the story of hitchbot
Got coast to coast in canada
In the us emidiately got beaten down in philly
Love the writing in this. It is sad but it did well to acknowledge the sentiments of people around those who attempt/commit it.
"I didn't notice." "I thought it didn't bother them." "I didn't know it was that bad."
Just lost a coworker a few weeks ago… he was a good kid. And you hit the mark with every quote you said. the first one was mine… and I wish it wasn’t.
@@noahv1479 If it helps, they were probably making a huge effort to hide it. Lots of us do when we're that bad, and we have a lot of practice by then. Don't beat yourself up too badly, when someone doesn't want to change, or doesn't want help, it's easy to give off the impression of not NEEDING help
A robot with feelings and conscience
Written that way, but just written. Doesn't make it true.
"Does this unit have a soul?"
Yes
@@Space-man-mars Im gonna go cry again now.
With they way they describ it all. It feels like the human version of this would be him overdosing. "Frying" his pathways (the vains) and memory storage (the brain.) Even if they got him back, he'd be an empty shell (brain dead )
Dame.
It would have meant so much more if he stayed dead , you know because those who commit suicide don’t get brought back in reality
Those who committed suicide also aren't robots that can be repaired later down the line.
Not necessarily. There are instances where someone attempts suicide and actually stop their heart and are technically dead, but manage to be revived. In the show, they have more time because Isaac’s a machine. This episode focuses more on how to respond when an attempt takes place but fails.
@playking667 True, but it seems like a significant amount of time passed before finding Isaac. Most likely, enough time passed that a human would have experienced brain death
@@RequiemPoete Again, it's a robot
@@ItsChevnotJeff Okay, and? My comment wasn't directed towards Isaac.
Someone needs to go down to Paramount and tell them: "This! This is what Star Trek is supposed to be. Why can't you do this as well as Seth McFarlane? How is the guy behind Family Guy beating you at your own game? Hell, buy the rights to The Orville yourself and fund more episodes."
Verse 1]....Unit 3000-21
Is warming, makes a hummin' sound
When its circuits duplicate emotions
And a sense of coldness detaches
As it tries to comfort your sadness
[Chorus]
One more robot learns to be
Something more than a machine
When it tries the way it does
Makes it seem like it can love
'Cause it's hard to say what's real
When you know the way you feel
Is it wrong to think it's love
When it tries the way it does?
Thank you Flaming Lips
1:48 - shout out to the Beryllium Sphere from Galaxy Quest?
My only question is, was optical resolution in simulator 2 increased by 63% with orthogonal multiplexing?
No idea but he used orthogonal multiplexing to shut down his central processor by inducing a spike in current
2:06 dis bro just speak Simlish? 😂
That episode hit hard
I was going through some stuff and wondering if I wouldn't be better off dead when this episode premiered. It hit hard to see Isaac going through the same process, and Claire's speech at the end was what really got me. It was still hard times for a while after that, but this episode reminded me I needed to keep going.
I know it’s a show but man how can I turn myself to cold and unfeeling when even a robot can’t take it 😂
I don't watch Orville fully because... I cannot buy foreign film, but it is much more sad since this happened after Isaac sacrificied himself, but people still bitter about his betrayal
I feel both sides.
Issac was only being loyal and doing as he was told, but managed to not at the last minute. The way they treated him, anyone would choose to go how he did….
However…..
He endangered EVERYONE. His actions caused his ostracizing, even if he saved him. They’re entitled to be furious and angry with him. Hell I would too, I don’t care what his reasoning was.
It’s just unfortunate and very well written.
Edit..... I finally got to this episode.... Marcus went way to effing far. WAY too far.
Sorry, new here, first time I heard "doonian"- named after/homage to James Doohan?
Yaphet cut the onions
Bro puts tone tags in the title for all the Kaylons watching 🤖
BEST EPISODE EVER!!!!
I love this show
Is Dr. Finn not in love with him at this point? She looks concerned but not very emotional.
I think she still cares for him deeply, but this was not long after the Kaylon attack on Earth. She or her family haven't truly forgiven him yet.
@@IntergalacticDustBunny oh ok. Thanks for clarifying ☺️
Which chapter is this?
!Spoilers up ahead!
He gets revived
Isaac was a good father
Uh, no. Isaac did not commit suicide, because it was never alive.
But they said he was just turned off.
I’ve been seeing constant clips and shorts of this show, I was about to watch it until one clip spoiled it for me and showed that Isaac died (he was the reason for me wanting to watch the show) but now I have no reason too 🥲😭
spoiler:
he gets revived later on
@@someone-wh2rb the "revival" was even dumber than the "suicide." And It's a robot, not a "he." And it didn't commit suicide, because it was never alive.