Greatest Starting Rotation | Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- During the 90s the Atlanta Braves formed what is undoubtably the greatest trio of starting pitchers we have seen in baseball. The trio was Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Greg Maddux. All three Cy Young award winners and all three Hall of Famers. This is how the three became teammates and how they eventually split up.
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I was growing up in ATL and it was known as the big 4. Steve Avery filling the last spot. Underrated pitcher that deserves way more credit.
Yep!
Big Braves fan.
Avery was solid.
That's right
Not to mention the fact Braves games were televised coast to coast on TBS every night. So we all got to see these guys do their thing.
This right here. There's a lot of nostalgia involved. I was born in 91, so I can remember watching them at a young age on TBS Superstation after all the Roseanne reruns were over lol.
The thing was it wasn't just those three. The Braves had a plethora of starting pitching talent during that run. Steve Avery was one of the best pitchers in the game as well from 1991-1993 before his shoulder started going bad in 1994. Charlie Liebrant won 15 games in both 1991 and 1992. Denny Neagle won 20 games in 1997 and may have been the best 4th starter in history from 1996-1998. Kevin Millwood won 17+ games in 1997, 1998, and 2002 and finished 3rd in Cy Young voting in 1998 as the Braves 5th starter. Russ Ortiz won 20 games one year and Tim Hudson joined the rotation in the final years of their run. I still haven't mentioned Kent Merker, who started both of the Braves No-Hitters during the 90s.
Yep.
Kent Merker pitched a no hitter in 94 or 95.
@@terrybuckley1556 He pitched a CG no-hitter in 1994, but he also started the combined no-hitter the Braves threw in 1991 with Mark Wohlers and Alejandro Pena throwing an inning each to finish it off.
This. There's a reason we draft pitching first, second, and whenever.
Yep, Avery was a stud in 91 and 92 and so extremely sad the injury bug derailed a potentially great career. Many thought Avery was better than both Smoltz and Glavin early on.
If those three weren't enough, remember that there was a Steve Avery in that mix for a short time as well. His candle burnt fast, but it burnt hot as well.
Maddux had about 4 pitches in his arsenal... it's just that he could throw each of them about three different ways, and at the same time make them all look identical coming out of his hand. Also, he could literally throw any of them into a Dixie cup from 60'6". He was a beast.
which is why it made no sense why he couldn't do the same in the playoffs. He was a lot like Kershaw, dominate in the regular season, then turn into a minor league player in the playoffs! I guess some guys just collapse under playoff pressure...
@@jackson5116 Not true; look at the box scores. His playoff averages look pedestrian, but there were some games he absolutely dominated. I remember a game against the Yankees where he came off the mound about a dozen times to field some weak dribbling grounder. Vintage Maddux.
Pitchers dont go deep into ballgames like these 3 guys did in the 90s. These three men were the og's! You're lucky to see pitchers go longer than 5-6 innings these days.
Team owners don't want their million dollar investments hurt, so they've been pushing for less and less workloads for pitchers. Too many have had Tommy John surgery that it's almost a given that 50% of pitchers will get it
Watching this team while listening to Skip Caray and Pete Van Wieren taught me to adore baseball.
The big 3 started with Steve Avery who pitched him to that World Series
My dad went to HS with him
I agree, how can they forget a guy like Steve Avery in this video, who could have been the number one starter in just about any other team?
Steve Avery was epic as a kid, but when big leaguers figured him out he was ordinary to bad. He only has literally a year and a half of good stats, and then a very bad downturn. The Maddix signing and the longevity of Smoltz and Glavine made the Big 3. After 1994 explain what Avery did to make him part of the Big 3. In fact Avery wasn’t even on half of those conference titles.
You can respect a player without disrespecting 3 Hall of Famers over a guy who never even sniffed a vote.
The big 3 did not include Avery, because he wasn’t great.
Saw Glavine get beat in the '91 World Series.
Braves did not have run support.
The old Launching Pad was not launching that day.
Combine was fine if he got out of the first 2 innings.
Wish a computer whiz could confirm most of the runs he allowed came in the first couple innings. Then he settled down.
Steve Avery so ture
Just the fact every year was either Smoltz or Glavine or Maddux for winning the Cy Young between 1991 and 1996 should tell you how great they were in the first half of the 90's. Once they started turning 30 their dominance waned, but those 5 years though, WOW!
Wow, I didn’t know that the Braves won 14 straight division titles! I knew they were unbelievably good in the 90’s but that’s insane dominance!
If only they could have gotten it done in the playoffs
and we won 1 world series 1 i say again 1 world series. SCREW THE YANKEES.
No team has done that before and after.
He got it wrong it’s 11 straight not 14 from 95’ - 05’
@@KevinJGamez 91,92,93. There was a strike in 94 so there was no division winner, so that's 14 straight
HEY. Don't forget Pete Smith and Steve Avery. They started that late 80s early 90s pitching dynasty. Greg Maddux sealed the deal with Smoltz and Glavine. That was a trio that will never be again. BRAVES are on fire this year. Better watch out. I can feel it.
I lived in Richmond, VA in that time. If you wanted to get to ATL...you had to start in Richmond.
Thanks for making this video. I'm a late bloomer when it comes to baseball, but I'm just fascinated by the mythos and and legacies over time. Especially about pitching. I'm learning more, and more every other day. Shame that this trio only one a single title in the 90's, but like you stated yourself it's pretty remarkable that the Braves were able to sequester three HOF pitches for a decade. I'll have to go back and watch some of their games in the decade.
Let's not forget about Steve Avery
Being a HomeTown fan and having such a flourish of talent in the pitching rotation in the 90s, these guys made me want to pay more attention to pitchers.
lets not forget that in 1971 the Orioles had: McNally (21-5), Dobson (20-8) Cuellar (20-9) and Palmer (20-9). And the year before: Jim Palmer (20-10)
Mike Cuellar (24-8) Dave McNally (24-9)
89-90 A’s were almost that impressive.
wins aren't as impressive as things like K's, ERA, and shutouts. That's why Cy Young voting rarely looks at the most wins, because you can be on a dominant team and get 20 wins while having an ERA of like 5.00 and 500 BB's, but your thunderous offense bails you out all the time.
it should also be noted teams had 4 man rotations back then, so it was much easier to pick up 20 wins when you start nearly 40 games. These guys had 5 man rotations, so they barely pitched in 30 games. Winning 20 of 30 is more impressive than winning 20 of 40.
@@jackson5116 very true, but the video is about the 3 at Atlanta, so if they had 5 starters (no doubt) the other 2 are complete footnotes to the situation, whereas for the 1971 Orioles, it was a great pitcher every outing.
@@jamesrav The '71 orioles staff had Jim Palmer lead with an ERA+ of 126, with Dave Mcnally and Pat Dobson behind him at 117 and 116 respectively. Mike Cuellar finished with a 109 ERA+. There were many years where Smoltz would be the "worst" of the big 3 and have better numbers than Palmer, the '71 orioles ace. Cuellar that year was only 9% above a league average pitcher. It really didn't matter if the Braves were trotting out Steve Avery, Denny Neagle, or Kevin Millwood (who was the FIFTH starter at times), they all consistently were better than cuellar, who admittedly I had to look up as he is pretty forgotten.
As a casual Giants fan of this era, I enjoyed watching, and had great respect for, this rotation. It was amazing to watch, especially Maddox
Man I remember going to some of those games with my pops!! The good ol days
Amazing trio of Legends
Mike Cuellar,Jim Palmer,Dave McNally, Pat Dobson all 20 game winners on one team GREATEST STARTING ROTATION
Those 3 should have won more Championships but they had to face the checking account of the Yankees ..
hands down the best 3 rotation I’ve ever seen in my 54 yrs of life !!
And I live in St.louis Cardinals territory.. Carpenter, Wainwright and Ingringhausen were outstanding also winning a couple of Championships…
They never fell. They got a chip. Many greats played together and never got one. Sure wish they got more. Can't take away there greatness.
you forgot to mention how insanely good Smotlz was a closer. nobody expected him to be that good out of the bullpen
Pitching never was the problem for the Braves. Hitting always fell apart came playoff time.
Sid Breem scored from first… that’s their biggest play. 1991. They didn’t even win the WS that year.
1971 Orioles had four 20-game winners in a season: Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar, and Pat Dobson.
Another Great trio that came to mind was Eddie Plank, Chief Bender and Rube Waddell.
Egos wouldn’t allow it to ever happen again.
Great analysis (says a Detroit Tiger suffering fan).
Wishing U continued success
Really enjoyed this presentation. Especially the insights drawn from the stats.
Keep up the good work!
Dont forget the phantom 5th starter...sometimes its millwood...sometimes its burkett
Nolan was the Beast of that i agree the most Pleasing pitcher to watch throw a ball.His wind up always put a smile on my face to this day......My Favorite pitcher? I got to see Randy Johnson up close..NOW who is my Fav? John Smoltz....The Man Did It ALL Start ,Relieve,Close and at the highest Level.I tend to Like Versatility as a key to your Value to "The Team"...Now for My Team Seattle.We have one of those that has been the Utility Knife for us for years and is just now getting his Due Recognition......Dylan Moore...."Plug and Play" love him.
They also had prime Denny Neagle at one point
Love the rookie card shot....great vid
This was the era. The Braves seemed invincible at the time. Only strikes when Maddux thru.
growing up in the southeast I was spoiled watching these guys pitch almost nightly on TBS. Maddux was a master. I loved watching glavine slowly coax those low and away strikes out of the umpire. And smoltz just had grit. The Braves current rotation could get interesting with Fried, Strider and a healthy Soroka
don't count out charlie morton
Well the '69 Orioles had four twenty game winners. I don't think that another team has done that since.
Actually, it happened in 1971 for the Baltimore Orioles.
The only other time that a team had four 20 game winners in one season was the 1920 Chicago White Sox.
Great video, jealous! Wish I could make this on my channel, that's why I subscribed, keep up the quality content! Greetings from Denmark my friend
Thank you man
But only 1 WS championship. Still baffles me
Probably one of the biggest disappointments in the sport
@@JVJsports i know right! Wasted talent
If not for awful calls against the Twins it likely would have been 2 and don't forget Eric Gregg's mess against the Marlins and Livan Hernandez during their time. They were robbed of a chance there also
It was wild that it wasn’t till I was about 18/19 till I learned Smoltz was a trade acquisition. Bc I only knew him as a brave then not resigned at the end of his career.
Abbott/ Greene/ Lodolo
A great young trio that could compare in the next decade.
Or what the A's had with Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder and Barry Zito.
The Braves get a bad rap for only winning once.
Its unfair.
For a mid market team to win their division 15 years in a row is utterly amazing, and outside of the yankee dynasty is the best team accomplishment in recenr history.
The postseason is crapshoot and they lost some heart breakers, Phillies 93, Yanks 96 & 99. And some tough LDS losses as well.
El trio mas potente de Los bravos de atlanta
Denny Neagle was no slouch either
It's a shame the only won one World Series title, Tom Glavine wound up becoming the MVP in that Series, I surely believe they should have won in 91 and 96, and possibly in 92, at least.
Shoot the Braves could almost have it know if they resign Max Fried and Michael Soroka makes a comeback lol
How do you leave out Avery
Palmer mcnally and cuellar
1920 chicago white sox Red Faber 23-13 ,Eddie Cicotte 21-10, Lefty Williams 22-14 Dickey Kerr 21-9 you don't know your baseball( BOY)
Imagine a three game series, ok their ace is a hof pitcher but after him.....
They had steve Avery at once too
Avery was awesome as well……
Dude!?! What about Steve Avery?
Avery only pitched with them for 3 years at most and he wasn't effective the whole time. Liked the guy but was not part of the big 3
Greg Maddux threw more than 2 pitches. Come on.
Nah Glavine had Great control he was the left hand Maddox
I hate they don’t even mention Steve Avery 😢
Also had millwood win a cy young 5:11
If the Braves resign Fried, you could see the rotation of Strider, Fried, Soroka (he’ll get back to his Ace form) at their peaks
IDK, buddy (soroka) had to change his entire release mechanics
I don't think Soroka will ever get back to his old self sadly. His stuff looks pedestrian at best, he has no control over his slider and his fastballs get way too much of the plate.
That's BS. Why does everybody always look over a HUGE part of that rotation while he was there, STEVE AVERY????
Glavine had decent control?
meanwhile Steve Avery is like, where is my name..
Yeah he was really good too but not any where knew the level of the other 3
WHAT ABOUT STEVE AVERY??
The Brave’s big three was greater than the A’s three aces, but the A’s big three was pretty good.
Oakland was so dominant when it came to the world series in the early seventies it was sickening.
Which era?
Cuz these Braves teams don’t hold a candle to the A’s that won championships. Going back to 1909.
The 1911 A’s starting rotation won 94 of their 101 win season. 2 of the 7 wins remaining were tossed by a position player.
Chicks dig the long ball
Avery
To only win 1 world series with that starting rotation makes no sense. Talk about underachieving
Imagine a world where the best pitchers aren't all paid to go to the same team.
And they only won a simple title
Greatest? How many World Series did they win using that rotation?
The greatest pitching staff of all time were the 1971 Baltimore Orioles! Period! End of discussion. They had 4 20 game winners. Never will be duplicated again, ever! Braves were good, but they didn't accomplish that.
BS - You're dead wrong here
The Braves in that era had MULTIPLE years where their staff was better than the '71 orioles. Please tell me you're not really using pitcher wins as a measuring stick for how good they were...lol
Only 1 WS championship though… just saying
Too bad Avery melted down.
Yeah the big 3 had a strike zone that went from batters box to batters box
Maddux at least definetly got some calls because umpires expected him to throw strikes.
All of baseball got those calls during that time though, sparky. Perhaps you weren't alive then or whatever but all pitchers got those big strike zones
Yeah sounds like he’s just a toddler
Get your facts straight Maddux debut 1996 wtf and take out what you goyin your mouth.
No, Hunter, Holtzman and Blue won 3 WS in a row.
Braves… 1
1989 A’s starting 4 won 77 games and in 1990 won 79 games with Bob Welch tossing 27 victories.
If you count the spot starts by Curt Young for those teams staring pitching accounted for 81 wins in 1989 and 88 wins in 1990. The Braves never came close that.
The Braves had great pitching, but could never pop on championships.
Earl Weaver's Orioles had a great staff that included Jim Palmer and that staff only won one title. Those '89 A's? Lost to the Dodgers in 88 and were swept by the Reds in '90. There were many great pitching staffs that didn't win multiple titles. Being great doesn't entitle championships.
@@stanleywilliams1605 I agree. But he’s talking greatest rotation of all time. Are those Braves even top 10 on numbers?
@distantgalaxymusic1447 As individuals or as a triad? I don't think Ken Holtzman is in the HOF, but I know Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz are.
Vida Blue and Catfish Hunter were amazing, but I would put Greg Maddux stats against Vida Blue. Same with Smoltz and Hunter, although I think Catfish has a slight edge to Smoltz on ERA.
@@stanleywilliams1605 the video is about the season they won the World Series, not their over all career performances.
The video is claiming that the year the Braves won the WS they had the greatest pitching rotation in history for that season. It’s not only not true, it’s not even close.
They weren’t better than the 1909-1912 A’s.
If this was a conversation about total career numbers, you be correct.
@distantgalaxymusic1447 What I gathered from the video was about how that Braves rotation came to fruition and how they fell apart. I know the story because I'm a lifelong Braves fan, so I had a front row seat. When making comparison in baseball, I don't tend to go beyond the 1940's. The playing field before then wasn't exactly level. By that, I mean, their were no Latin or Black players in the Majors. I do, however acknowledge how great those A's that you spoke of were.👍🏼
meh, I dunno. Dave McNally, Jim Palmer, Mike Cuellar and throw in Pat Dobson. Four twenty game winners on the same team in the same year.
Bro the only dynasty I know in the 90’s is the Yankees!
Dynasty? Shit Yankees were and forever will be the biggest pile of money shit
How you can make these 3 guys sound boring AF..... Dude work on your delivery.
Maddux is the best, Smoltz second, and Glavine is distant third.
I'll disagree with you here. Maddux was the best but it's hard to rate them better than the other. They all had different styles
Ya. Yheyvwere so great they won a whopping one world series. Regular season statistics do not a world series winning pitching staff make. Dodgers pitchers ftom 1959 to 1966, and the Giants pitchers 2010 to 2014 won multiple world season rings. The Braves were the biggest under achievers ever.
They chocked. Only got one World Series. Yankees took care of that small problem twice
WTH is chocked? Like chocking a wheel so the vehicle doesn't roll away? Stupid Yankee
Yankees bought those series. They never grew em
And only one ring.... Bobby Cox 👎
Great trio yet the reason for one championship is John was the only good pitcher in the postseason. Glavine was so overrated and if you took Pettitte and Glavine and switched them to teh other team Pettitte would have been better and that team would have won more in the easier big ballpark NL which is why Maddux didnt go to the Yanks.
There are a couple reasons they only won one and it's not because Maddux and Glavine were choke artists as your posts seem to imply as both were still good in the playoffs. 94 season was cancelled though Expos were a machine so who knows what happens. 1st real shot they had with the big 3 was in 95 and they won. They lost twice to the Yankees who were a dynasty and very clutch team. One of the reasons Atlanta only won once was their bullpen wasn't great and they didn't have a great closer. Meanwhile the team you are playing has the GOAT closer on their side (as well as other great relievers such as John Wetteland in 96 who was an all star and still the closer while Rivera was young. In 96 the series famously turned when the Braves, trying to take a commanding 3-1 lead, closer Mark Wholers gave up famous 3 run HR to Jim Leyritz to blow the game. The other time they played Yankees the Yankees were just in peak dynasty mode. They were in middle of streak where they won 3 straight WS with 12-1 world series record. swept Padres, swept Braves, beat my Mets 4-1. Speaking of my Mets 2000 team that denied Braves WS that year was damn good team. Very good series that Braves again let down by their bullpen when Robin Ventura hit his famous walk off Grand Slam single off Braves bullpen. Overall Atlanta was never a dominant offensive team either. They were decent hitters but they didn't have as many sluggers or depth with pinch hitters or L/R platoons as some of the teams they faced in playoffs such as Yankees or Indians. The two years in question really are 97/98 when their Big 3 was still peak. 97 Marlins were stacked team overall especially on offense compared to Atlanta. 98 the bullpen took the loss in Game 1 and the offense got shut out twice after that so thats 3 of the 4 losses you cant really just blame on the starting pitching. Even in one of the wins Maddux had to be utilized in relief for a save. Still in a couple of those series there were bad starts here and there including by Smoltz but overall I don't think its fair to say their starters weren't good enough in the postseason. By and large the starters did perform good enough to win games in the postseason but as good as they performed the team a whole including the offense and bullpen wasn't as dominant as the starting pitching was and they also lost twice to a dynasty team that was challenging for regular season wins records and sweeping their way through the playoffs almost every season.
Shut your trap kid
Maddux and Glavine were great. John Smoltz was awful and doesn't deserve his hall of fame spot. Smoltz is a turncoat and should be banned from baseball and erased from the history books.
Throw Avery in there.