Sure, we're obsessed with beauty, and youth. Especially when it comes to women. But society at large is also just weary of sickness and growing old, so there's an "allure" to the idea of achieving great things and dying right then and there, forever remembered in your prime. For women it does have more to do with looks, but the "live fast, die young, never grow old" also worked on figures like James Deen or Paul Walker.. It's about the talent and potential that these people displayed, they didn't just die young, they died young AND on the top of their game... The 27 club, etc. The sense of loss is amplified by people wondering what else they could've accomplished had they not been stolen away so fast, I think.
@@katymaloney I think that's certainly true in the modern age, but I think for women it's got a longer history. Dying young and beautiful has been romanticized for centuries. For men, their prime comes later. There's something about being a leader and experienced and powerful, like Julius Ceasar. But for women, their prime has always been the young maiden and it hasn't changed. From Lady Jane Grey, to Ophelia, to Marilyn Monroe. So much art surrounds that idea. The painting 'The Execution of Lady Jane Grey' was and is so famous because it captures the innocence and youth and purity that society has always been to obsessed with. The fact that she was 17 and completely innocent and had to be guided to the block without even knowing what she was dying for. It's why imo, her death has a famous painting and story, but Mary of Scots who died at 44, does not. It's a recurring theme. Something about the innocence of dying a maiden.
Ikr? I’m not a teenager anymore, but I see it so often that everything teenage girls like is publicly seen as being bad and teenage girls are always shamed for liking stuff or being excited about something.
I think people sometimes forget one simple but yet important thing. People CHANGE. She’s been in the music industry a whole decade!! It’s not 100% about a persona problem but mostly about GROWING.
...or not growing... I don’t think she responds to any kind of criticism, even from her fans, very well. It kinda seems like she sees any kind of criticism as a personal attack and so do her fans
@wayamaya well I get that she might be getting tired of criticism but sorry - she’s a public figure therefore she’ll always get criticism. The problem is that she just can’t seem to differentiate between valid criticism (for example her ignoring Covid guidelines with that stupid glitter net) and unnecessary attacks. To her apparently all criticism is an attack. And ignoring valid critique shows very little self reflection
@wayamaya she responded that the mask had some plastic sewn inside but it’s clearly visible on pictures that that was not the case. (She could’ve just said sorry, I should’ve been more careful but no she made up some lie). When fans were criticizing her Chemtrails cover she jumped into the defense by saying that it *does* feature poc and that her ,best friends and boyfriends are rappers‘ (implying that she’s friends with black people) which made a lot of people mad because it’s basically the ,I’m not racist, see, I have black friends‘ argument. And people weren’t even mad about her ,not showing enough poc‘ - they just really didn’t like the very low quality and badly edited IPhone 5 picture as an album cover. And from an art analysis point (I have literally written an essay about that picture) it would’ve been so easy to make it look better and of a little more quality by changing the lighting, not using a black and white filter, by putting her a little bit more in the focus, by choosing a little higher view point etc... when she was criticized for almost making excuses for tr*mp for inciting the January 6th riot by saying ,I don’t think he meant to incite a riot‘ she went on a minute long rant about how her words are always taken out of context and how everyone is just so unfair when it’s literally so so soooo easy to just hop on your live and say ,her guys I don’t like Tr*mp and riots are bad‘
@wayamaya I do agree that she’s often been needlessly attacked for her lyrics. I also don’t think (or rather I hope she doesn’t) she supports tr*mp but for some reasons she’s really struggling to just find the words tu put it out there idk... and the thing with Lanas covers: she has such a great and unique aesthetic. Especially her earlier music videos are pure art and just really get to you. It just seems to me and many others fans that she completely stopped putting any effort into creating art for her exceptional music... I have all her vinyls but I will never buy Cotcc because it just looks so shitty compared to her other albums... maybe she’s trying to piss people off but it’s really sad that the art has to suffer for it because let’s be real a 2 year old selfie with some filters and PicsArt fonts slapped on it hardly does her songs justice :/ it’s just so sad to see her really iconic looks and unique styles not being shown anymore cause I really loved her vintage vibes glamour aesthetic
Gonna get some hate, but I just have to say… men can sing about fckin 20 girls at a time getting them pregnant and leaving/ drinking and driving/ extreme drug abuse yet it’s played on the radio and not criticized anywhere near as hard as women’s music for being dark & fcked up lol
I agree. I feel like the struggle is more heavy for female artists. Many male artists use derogatory language and sing problematic stuff but somehow they get away with it. When it comes to female artists people are so eager to point out their flaws and defects.
Yeah..I think it’s a classic example of sexism being harmful not only to women but to men as well. Women = fragile vulnerable and impressionable, need to be protected, whereas boys/young men are seen as not needing protection, and often get harmed bc of it. That being said I side with an artists’ right to free expression regardless of how young people may interpret it
Yes the fact that when men talk about “dark subjects” they’re the perpetrator but when we talk about them we’re speaking as the victim and STILL get more criticism than them. Like when sza came out with ctrl and men got mad at her for making “side chick music” when they will talk about the same thing from the other perspective in a joking manner and its okay. Lana is showing the perspective of young girls who are groomed/preyed upon. People just don’t like hearing the victims perspective
Literally, there are old music videos about the act of rape (Falco, Jeanny) and really freak music bands that explore concepts of brutality (like, I don’t know, Rammstein, I guess) but that doesn’t matter. It’s a stage persona. It’s like acting and Lana definitely shows that her stage persona is carefully constructed. That’s what makes every artist succeed - you don’t really talk about yourself, but you’re your “own creation” (and then you have a whole crew that is influencing your image). I think teenagers know much more about this nowadays, than older people and they rarely take things seriously
@@mollymeyer8443 many people who make that point dont go after lana. Although i do think ppl that blindly hate on female rappers are just salty virgins a lot of the time.
On the subject of Sad Girls, I definitely agree more with Mitski when she said "I used to rebel by destroying myself, but realized thats awfully convenient for the world. for some of us our best revolt is self-preservation." Btw where did you get that shirt? It's rlly cute
people love saying "omg! fake depressed 14 year olds ha ha" but when i was actually depressed at 13, i couldn't get the help i needed because no one believed me. this 'joke' does so much more harm than good. mental illness is independent of age, it's about time we start believing young girls
Agree! Especially hate the idea people are faking a mental illness, when you look deeper if someone is actually going through hoops to fake something that shows one way or another they need some help mentally. (I say deeper because their is people that fake it but they just use it as a personality trait and usually it is clear they don’t even know what they are talking about)
I feel like it has to do with those loud few who actually dO fake mental illnesses (I've met lots of those back then, it was a really toxic place that perpetuated lots of bad misconceptions for me and other students) that drive away those who actually do suffer from these mental disorders. I mean, there could be other reasons as to why people would "fake" these disorders, but it does create more stigma for those who genuinely need help.
@@Mrym-q1q I definitely agree to that, not to mention, mental illnesses isn't really properly taught to people, especially in certain places (people where I live don't even talk about it and it's still stigmatized, most people who do speak up for mental health are other teens). So it usually ends up with young people finding out about it online through other people who already perpetuate the normalization of having mental illnesses (and not in a good way) and so they end up replicating that behavior for various reasons. I knew 13 year old me had a short phase like that, which was horrible because nobody out there really knew or told me it was wrong (or even encouraged the behavior) until I found out how toxic the behavior was a year later aND I realized that I had other negative reasons for acting that way. I feel like my answer could vary, but this is what I personally noticed from my own experiences.
In regards to Lana's initial popularity, I think she brought in a way to be young, sexual, and emotional without having to balance it out with some kind of moral purity or strong, take-no-shit persona in the way that Britney, Madonna, and other predecessors conveyed sexuality in music. Lana's music said that one could be sexual, naive, and destructive and not feel the need to apologize or compensate for it, which was weirdly liberating for the time (at least for me). It kinda flipped the emotional love-sick girl trope on its head and turned it into something cool and sexy (and problematic).
I agree with this. I personally was 18-20 when born to die came out and it was great going through my existential crisis with her music even though it was and is definitely problematic.
“I fucked my way up to the top, this is my show” yes, she is unapologetically who she is, that’s why I adore her music for sure! She talks about her emotions in a language I understand better than anything! She’s truly a poet, in the way Bob Dylan is. I’ve always thought poetry is the perfect balance between the physical & the spiritual- combined perfectly. Poetry is the truth, life is stranger than fiction!
Perfectly put. The naivety from Britney and others really comes off like ‘male gaze’ version of naivety. While lana’s was more like ‘16 year old girl from the 60s wears her moms makeup for the first time on a date and thinks she looks 28’
I also think that what she meant by the 'no place in feminism for me' post: not that she's pretty and white, but that she's explicitly vulnerable and doesn't pretend to be in charge of anything. It was worded poorly, but to me that's such a huge aspect of her 'brand'!
ikr. it’s way better to create something beautiful and artistic out of something ugly than to suppress the ugliness and only view it as a dark thing. you can learn and grow from traumatic situations if you allow yourself to and i believe doing it artistically is the best way to do it. if her music ruins people so much then that’s their own mental struggle they need to deal with, not blame the artist.
The thing is, sadness is addictive. The comfort you find in being sad, always listening to sad songs about dark subjects sucks you in. You never want to leave that dark place once you feel comfortable there and it gets so hard to push yourself up. Idk if I'm making sense or not, that's just how it was for me.
It's such an interesting idea that Lana Del Rey's popularity was a rejection of the GIRL POWER GIRL BOSS vibes being shoved down everyone's throat at the time. Women being equal doesn't mean having to be positive and empowered all the time, it means being able to express the full range of human emotions even if those emotions are destructive. Men have been self destructing since the beginning of history.
It's the fact that she said "there isn't a place in feminism for a woman like me"..... what? She's a white woman, feminism literally started due to white women like her. She's just so tone deaf and that insta post calling out mostly poc's was a nail in the coffin.
@@kinare1853 I don't think you actually grasped the message she was trying to say. She honestly just rlly badly worded it and I definitely think she should have done a better job and not listed black women to prove her point. She was just saying that a lot of women were judging her for not being girl boss and her music always portraying women needing a man, wanting love etc.
@@GrellxSebby1012 but she does have problematic lyrics? Like the lolita song is just very disturbing. And even ultraviolence. Femininity is not equal to letting men walk over you.
@@kinare1853 yeah, but what if that's her experience? she writes about it and there's no reason why people should get mad over it. it's not like "hey let's let man step over us". it's more like, "yeah, that happened, let me tell you". i dont understand why people get mad over other people feelings and experiences..
@@arthurmvandrade but at the end of the day it does glamorize abuse doesn't it? The average listener doesn't know her intentions behind a song, they just take it at face value. And at face value, it is glamorizing abuse. And if she just came out and said it, I wouldn't be bringing it up. Also the timing of the insta post is also really bizarrely considering how much praise and acclaim she was getting at that moment due to nfr.
The fact the media still uses the word “mom” as a way to shame and put woman down in this day and age is honestly disgusting. My mother is wonderful, beautiful and the most amazing human I know. Let’s stop the hate please. 🧡
Yeah. In my language "aunt" is used for same description and IMO it's better because aunts don't have to be close with the kids and it's assumed they're at least in their 30s.
Mom's are often old maybe that's why they use it? But I mean ik I'm gonna get old someday so 'mom' doesn't make sense or affect me. And I mean... My mom's the strongest person ik so what's so bad with being called mom?
If you wanna go with Jungian psychology then every single person has a persona and that is pretty normal. Just like you said. It's basically you wearing a mask that filters yourself into a version that you feel comfy showing the public. The word persona doesn't necessarily mean fake or acting.
Being Hispanic I always loved seeing Lana gain inspiration from our culture. As a struggling teen, it always made me feel seen in a world where parents were divorcing and I struggled with addiction. I never felt like she disrespected our culture and honestly in Mexico people love her and you would never hear that from latinos. Latinos love our sad girl.
yeah, we don’t care about these things here in latam meanwhile the “latinos”-americans will try soo hard to claim things as cultural appropriation and offensive etc
I'm Hispanic too and I think it's cringe, and so do many ppl of who I know... I know all the yt ppl won't give me internet validation unless I make a comment like that tho, of course 😂 I mean it's cool she donated that stuff tho
In my opinion, the Sad Girl™ aesthetic has migrated to other social media platforms, like Twitter and RUclips, since self-deprecating humor and general pessimism/nihilism seem to be common trends, whereas on Tumblr, I'm seeing a lot more optimism and positivity. That might also be just because of who I follow though
yeah i agree! i think there is a lot of users who migrated to other socials and there is not a lot of new users so most users are veterans already experienced this type of trends and grew out of it
same !! it's interesting to see the shift in tumblr's general culture. and hilarious, because the general internet still thinks the site is the same way lol
@@corvicore6813 Yeah, exactly! When I first got a Tumblr account, I was expecting it to be a lot more negative and toxic because that's what I had found the general internet saying about Tumblr. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Tumblr is actually pretty tame lol
@@everetteschmeverette6866 Yeah, it's definitely super interesting to see how "the norm" has shifted over time. It's kinda like how The Straights™/Breeders have - somewhat - become the punching bag on TikTok nowadays in a lighthearted way (not tryna claim that "heterophobia" is running rampant, but you get my point), whereas even as recently as three, four, five years ago, that wouldn't have been true. And it's absolutely true that TikTok is glamorizing a lot of messed up stuff nowadays because of their algorithm that prioritizes beauty. That's probably why you see a lot of mentions of EDs, addictions, lowered self esteem, general unhappiness with one's body, etc. It's very messed up but kind of interesting to observe, not gonna lie.
and it’s funny bc Lana didn’t have a “persona” her entire “persona” was a metaphor. she wasn’t trying to be Jackie Kennedy, how she dressed, what she wrote, how she acted, it was all simply a metaphor
this is extremely true. We make a huge fuss out of every thing they do, and even when the things they do aren't that bad, we twist and turn and try to make it seem like they did one of the worst things imaginable. We create problems and blame it on them because it's easier to blame the person in the spotlight than the people in the back.
I think people need to understand that Idolization is another form of dehumanizing, just in an extremely unattainable "positive" direction. Unrealistic.
Lorde's critique on Lana seems so hilarious now, when she's got her own sad girl post-breakup album called Melodrama. It really shows that she was pretty much an unexperienced teenager at the time and just couldn't relate. I think Lana's music is aging like good wine. And it's not just about abuse, daddies and americana (I'm Russian and it does nothing to me), at its core it's about coming to terms with your sadness first and foremost. Lana's music is soothing for me.
literally same. discovering her music as a 12 yo gay boy in russia drastically changed my life cause i felt that much needed support from across the globe. it didn't make me glamorize depression or anything, but rather show i'm not alone in my suffering. and now, 10 years later, i can appreciate the journey she's gone through with her music and i still feel the connection that many just don't get. she's truly one of the best artists of our era.
Melodrama doesn't try to make abuse seem beautiful. It isn't about an abusive daddy, it's about her boyfriend, the problems they had and why they had to put an end to a relationship that wasn't working anymore. It's way more mature than Born To Die.
Imma say it again, female musicians should be allowed to be flawed and complicated as their male counterparts. They should be allowed to write dark subject matter like men do. Allowed to wear what they want without slutshaming. Not sanitizing/excusing bad behavior, just humanizing female artists.
Yes!!! I’ve always found it disgusting that Chris brown has a whole career but female artists cannot make a single mistake. I think it’s really weird that there’s a huge number of r*pist/racist/violent men in music that go unchecked but we pick out in women when they do nearly a fraction of that. Hold everyone accountable but it’s interesting that only women have to be gardians of morality..
@@Lina-ht3kl the "we" there is the reason you're wrong: it's not the same person people supporting the rapists as criticising marginalised people in good faith.
The prevailing joke that people used to make about Lana was “her music makes me nostalgic for things that haven’t actually happened to me” so when she casts herself in smoky strip clubs, dressed like Marilyn, singing about a much older or heavily tattooed man crying because a girl she was close to isn’t here with her anymore but she’s actually opulently wealthy... some 17 year old was out there going omg same. And it was probably me.
As a black teenage girl, I was so relieved to have found an artist to whom I could relate; no need for a physical resemblance. It wasn't, necessarily, the allusions to abuse or addiction or whatnot but rather the way she translated her life into an art that made her experiences worthwhile and, thus, beautiful. Her _life_ is an art; a canvas onto which she paints many brushstrokes-some vibrant and bold and controversial while others are soft and simple and conventional; but it is altogether a beautiful conglomerate of persona and personality-herself. Lana was and is being whoever she may be; she's on her own path, growing as she learns-as we all must. Criticism deserves something to criticize, and she seems unafraid of being put under its lens. Never a thing worthwhile was left uncontemplated. Never a great work of art left unscrutinized. Thus always making the one brave enough to make it immortalized. 🕊
I'm in my 30s, but I'm still depressed and relate to Lana's music. Being sad isn't just an outdated fashion statement, it's a mental illness. Some of us never stopped being "sad girls", and sometimes glamorizing my life is the only way I have to cope with depression.
As a woman of color, i have to say that Lana saved me, her music helped me cope depression when i was a teenager. I didn't admire her for how she looked. Im a black woman, she is white. I live in the caribbean. She lives in USA. what connected me to her was her music, the feelings, the struggle.
@@vlera8447 she’s talking about the stories she tells in her music of struggling women, not Lizzie’s actual struggle. That’s the point of being a song writer or an actress playing characters
@@vlera8447 I will never understand this kind of comment. Struggle can happen through many shapes and forms. For example, Lana was an alcoholic at 14-15 years old. Does this sound like grew up in a healthy environment, where she was looked after?
@@boldanabrasevic3020 cant wait in a few years for 2014-16 tumbrl and we love it pics to be on IG pop culture profiles!!! cringy but SO nostalgic content lol
Lana never said she's a role model to anyone. People have a different way of coping with trauma/abuse and she just happens to express hers through her art (music). You can't seriously expect every person to express their 'darker' feelings the same way. She's not afraid to express herself. Seriously, imagine how boring all the art would be if the artists constantly had to worry about sending the wrong image of themselves 🙄
A lot of what made and still makes Lana's music so intoxicating is the freedom she sings about that a lot of teenaged girls don't have, due to school and other responsibilities. As a brown girl, I could relate to wanting to be free to do what I want because as fellow brown girls know, we aren't given much freedom. Lana sang about having no responsibilities and doing things because she wanted to, something we could only dream of. also I would say she isn't exclusively inspired by the 50s and 60s, but also the 70s, 80s and 90s, especially in albums such as Ultraviolence, NFR and LFL.
That’s true as someone who personally lived with a strict Hispanic mother, it was hard to have your own physical freedom. For example, not being able to go out and just have fun. Lana Del Rey’s music was the only freedom I knew during high school and with her storytelling it was almost as if you envisioned yourself in it.
Thank you!! ❤️❤️❤️ Lana is a true artist who has evolved over the years. I would for this “person” whoever she is to go attack every single male artist who shares their unhappy lives, or she only attack Lana Because she’s a female doing it?
I would also say that she was one of the only ones across male and female performers that was singing about freedom and doing what you want at the time, a lot of the males were just simping over women and money
I agree as someone that has lost her youth to mental illness. I wanted my rebellion phase and careless phase so much yet I never had a chance to behave like a 'normal' teenager and sometimes it makes me sick
I will always love Lana's universe, music and persona. The storytelling, the lyrics, the instrumentals, the music videos... it's all absolutely perfect to me, no false note.
I was raised by a single mother who lived the life described in Lana Del Rey's music. I witnessed 8 different stepfathers and the way my mother was completely blind to the toxic dynamics she was engaging in. This forced me to grow up looking at the world from the perspective of a lost and troubled woman who trusted men way too much. I eventually carried those emotions into adulthood and I truly feel in my heart that I lived her experiences at least emotionally. She and I often talk about this bond we have. To understand Lana Del Rey is to understand the disillusionment of womanhood, and the great lengths they go through to smile pretty for disapproving and emotionally unavailable men. You can try your hardest to bash Lana's lyrical themes, but to do that is to bash the reality of women that came before you. Broken women deserve representation too. You can't erase their stories from history.
You described that beautifully, Lana has given voice to so many women. People who are not familiar with Lana's work do not understand this. Ultraviolence is one of the albums that changed the way I see life. I hope your mother is better now
Thank you. Someone gets it. Her music empowers me, personally. A statement of I may seem soft and feminine, but I have a story to tell, I’ve been singing the same song my whole life and no one has ever stopped to listen..
I strongly disagree with saying that she romanticized abusive relationships, she simply wrote her songs and created her art based on her own experiences as a woman who experienced abuse. A victim's perspective shouldn't be judged like that, it is a life lasting trauma and to say that she was telling her story in the 'wrong' way is to invalidate her experience, as well as stating that there is a 'correct' way to cope with trauma and abuse, it's nonsense. Although I have my own critiques towards her, that is not one of them.
I agree. Pain and victimhood are valid emotions, and shouldn’t be neglected because they are negative. Music can be a channel for letting those emotions out. Personally I felt lana’s song was like a friend who understood my pain. It helped me cope with hard times.
also i remember back in the time when the two of them + florence were considered the holy trinity of indie music, i used to be lowkey obsessed with the 3 of them and their music
@@fibromiteready2fight809 Yeah. I now realize it was coming from a place of self-hate since I enjoyed some of the things I hated on other girls for openly liking. I'm just glad I grew out of that and now have the strength to be myself.
@@Lunella08 Yayyy for growth! I remember I was a teen and would feel edgy for hating certain music and artist but now im like fuck it love whoever you want. The number 1 thing i found funny is people like to hate on popular stuff because they think they are unique and against the grain......but hating on things because they are popular is the same thing. You are also a sheep jumping on a band wagon because its popular to hate that thing. For example BTS for me, people like to shit on them but most of them have heard 1 maybe 2 songs and then think they know everything and will talk shit because everyone else is also talking shit. I feel like once you do research on a subject THEN you can critique it all you want, if not you are also doing what everyone else does, you arent special and you arent cool.
I think some people dont actually realize that she is not just an artist who portraits depressed, melancholic women and such. Her music is deeply meaningfull and she is so hardworking, talented thus should be appreciated.
The thing I'm confused by is since when is telling a story about your PERSONAL experiences considered glamourizing. I thought people wanted authenticity and the reality but when you give it to them they don't want it anymore because it gets too real for them. Also, she Isn't responsible for raising teen girls around the globe, their parents are responsible for that
I think it's not fair to use "romanticizing" as a criticism. Anything popular literally will be romanticized because everyone, especially teens want to be cool and unique. So they jump on any new aesthetic and see it as cool. It's impossible to write about anything without having someone romanticize it. It's not the artist's fault.
There is a difference between telling experiences and romanticizing them. You can say “oh x happened. I though y, z, and w about it” without saying “oh x happened. It was y, z, and w.”
@@completely100percenthuman you don't get to decide what other people are allowed to feel. You don't get to tell people how to deal with their situation and how to act/feel about it. That's not how it works.
I’m very grateful to Lana for writing the song ‘Carmen’ which reminds me so much of my mother, to be able to write certain people to life and the emotions that come with their experiences isn’t an easy thing to do, the truth is that life can be sad and beautiful and both sides need to be represented in music. It isn’t just an aesthetic.
Carmen is my favorite song of all time! So dreamy, dark and melancholic I guess the song has a special power of evoking memories of people, because it always reminds me of my childhood friend
I understand what your message was and I agree with most of the things you’ve said about her career and her music. But to be honest, we need to stop thinking that artists are responsible for our children…yes her music can influence you but in the end it’s your decision… I’ve been a fan of LDR for a really long time, and I’ve never for once thought that she glamorised sadness or abuse… she talked about it in a way that no one ever did. She said everything we felt, that’s how relatable she was… I love her and her music, I think she’s an unique artist… most female only sing about love and boys and pussy, and when she came, she showed most woman that life is not roses and champanhe and that’s what I freakin love about her, she’s raw…
I see the points in your comment except the cringy "most female" thing. We're called women and most women DON'T sing about "love and boys and pussy". It's not our fault your taste in music is limited. Women are out there killing it in various rock subgenres, women are taking more and more space in modern metal. Women are doing the fcking thing.
I don’t get the hate she gets. Billie eilish talks about suicide in her music so much more and doesn’t get dragged for it. “I wanna end, I wanna end me, I wanna end me” in her lyrics. The hypocrisy
I feel like there are several reasons people would give her hate, which were all mentioned in the video and that's what the more recent hate has been about. Overall, from statements she puts out/things she says it just seems like she's still behind the general direction of growth in society, though she does seem to have grown some. It's true that Billie Eilish sings about her mental health struggles a lot, but she somehow doesn't seem to glamorize imo. And she was actually a teenage girl when she started
probably because Billie Eilish is more edgy about it and gives you the feeling she isn't all that serious about it, or that she's somehow distanced emotionally and therefore cool - young people say things like FML (fuck my life) and "I wanna kill myself" all the time yet they don't actually mean that - while Lana was or at least seemed more serious about her feelings? idk, just my guess, I'm under impression that people don't like sensitive, vulnerable women who just share their feelings like that and tell it like it is because this is what a typical woman is like, they prefer the ones who at least try to act tough and put the mask on, or who detach themselves emotionally
the difference is there is nothing ¨glamorous¨ or ¨romantic¨ about the song bury a friend rather it frames the suicide reference in a scary manner. lana has a bad habit of framing suicide, abusive relationships, and drug abuse as a key aspect of her glam sad girl aesthetic thus making it something young people might unfortunately romanticize
@@joeyrivers8845 I don't think young people would romanticise those things BECAUSE of Lana, rather, they already do it themselves and therefore relate to Lana who sings about feelings they're familiar with
The hyper fixation on her lyrics and references and calling them out as ‘problematic’ and ‘influencing young girls’ not only shows how women in music, media in general, can’t make a single flaw when so many male artists are constantly referencing things like rape, assault, controlling women ect and in a much more explicit, graphic way then LDR did when talking about violence, but also, shows how we still see teenage girls as these impressionable mindless creatures. Calling her persona ‘shattered’ and saying she is failing to be mysterious like Prince shows that her persona is not fake because she is a person and is growing and changing with time and she is not ripping off other artists who crave this specific persona. Also her ‘mum like’ media presence ppl criticise and her filters isn’t ‘corny’ it’s her being herself and not changing and adapting to fit in with younger generations, being authentic like everyone is ASKING FOR!
exactly. Not to mention that Lana has no responsibility to sensor herself for young teen audiences. She's not a disney or nickelodeon star. She's a star in general, she didn't put herself out there to be a role model for impressionable young people, so that criticism of all artists needs to stop. Let them be who they are without worrying it'll reflect badly on your kids. If you don't want your impressionable teens consuming media about this then watch what they do, talk with them about how the things she sings about aren't right in real life.
I can’t help but compare her a little bit to Alex turner’s personas. Like I can deff see some similarities between how they rose to fame in the US. The only thing is Alex is still kind of shrouded in mystery due to his lack of a social media presence. I think he kept the mystery alive while she shattered the illusion.
I totally see what you mean! Alex kind of looks unattainable whereas Lana seems now more tangible or human-like. And they fill the sad boy and sad girl spectrum, right? Also, didn’t they work together in the studio? I think Alex helped her with her new album or something like that but I’m not entirely sure...
Super true i used to wish Alex had a social media presence when i was a super fan and starving for content but now i somewhat understood his feelings about social media and present culture from tbhc album i get it why he'd like to stay out of it and it's probably for the best.
that era of tumblr mina talked about really was so detrimental. in addition to those images she referenced (medicine bottles, bruises, tattooes, cigarettes, etc.), I used to see a lot of images of self-harm scars and that as a part of the sad/emo girl aesthetic led me to actually self-harm for many years. yeesh.
@@diamondedevil last time I checked tumblr (at least 1 year ago) I noticed that images like that are no longer available. I wonder how different things would have been for me (for us) if tumblr never allowed those images on the site in the first place!
@@lolzlolzlolzlolzlol1 i often think that too, i definitely would not have self harmed bc i now realize the glamorization of self harming clouded for me the severity of the act, im now at a place where i cant even believe i did such a thing but im aware that tumblr had a big part in my perception of it
When you really delve into her discography, there’s songs that are about a lot more than men and I that’s where at least for me I relate to her music, when she’s singing about depression in general such as Black Beauty or Thunder
The whole idea of women needing to be mystique to be popular is just deep-rooted misogyny. Why does expressing her opinion suddenly make her less mysterious? Why do people want Lana to act as an object and say nothing? Why can't people just accept she is a person and that she has no responsibility to do anything for anyone other than herself?
I think that lana is just tired of everything, She doesn’t promote her music or do anything that a celebrity would normally do. Her lyrics are now full of frustration and way more personal. Her music is becoming less cinematic. I think that unfortunately she will stop making music soon. She is probably just tired of her life now
I also think that her persona is like a more glamorous version of herself. If you are a real fan you know that she went through a lot of stuff in her life. Her music is beautiful therefore her lyrics began to be seen as glamorous
Ok but her mental health is way better now of her own admission and she's literally releasing music so frequently. Why did you have to say that she's probably tired of her own life now?
I'm 66 currently. I have been fortunate to have lived through several eras of music.. My tastes haven't changed much and I'm still the same Bowie fan I was at 18. The constant dissection of artists in music is starting to bother me. I had never heard any of Lana's songs until a month or so ago. By accident I came across Summ Sadness and didn't look back. She is unique. She is the only artist I've come across that can create a "vibe", or actually put you into a song. That for me is a true talent. That's all I need. No need for over analyzing but that's my opinion.
She’s the only singer that I feel sees into my soul. She has saved my life too many times to count. For people to assume she is romanticizing the things she’s singing about, severely overlooks the importance of her music. She sings about her life and in doing so, she has helped so many people, including me
Okay I have seen so many comments and I have reached my limit . A singer may do good for one community while doing harm to another . Lana did glamorize abuse to people who haven’t been in abusive it toxic relationships she make it seem like it this high fashion fever dream of passion shit when it’s not
She doesn’t sing about hopelessness lol that song ends with “but I have it. Yea I have it” she has hope she is sooo positive and happy. She simply expressed the darker sides of her life that we all experience in a dramatic way.
The Sylvia Plath part is something I was drawn to before I knew of LDR or understood poetry. I think she is comparing and contrasting between her two inner selves. Like her lyrics that pop up “war in my mind” the duality experienced by everyone.But specifically her as a woman who is viewed as unstable or “the sad girl” influencer for glamorizing things that were already glamorized long before her so why does she have to take so much heat/blame? Causing her to maybe feels it’s difficult for her to have hope. Maybe because she doesn’t want to let herself down again or maybe because she knows showing hopefulness and happiness will (like it did) cause her to be picked apart. As if she wasn’t allowed to evolve through the 10 years since she hit most mainstream music (correct if wrong) the same way Taylor Swift evolved. Humans (myself included) create the persona I think more than the artist because we need something to attach the artist to that makes sense to us or makes us comfortable and when the artist changes as one does regardless of their talents/trade, the fans become confused and feel a sense of betrayal. However it seems to settle down as the artist does interviews explaining their change in style or whatever change it is. The artist may gain or lose fans here and there. So I think again Sylvia Plath is known for committing suicide in her oven and the multiple attempts prior to that. But that IS NOT SYLVIA PLATH that is the archetype society created about her. Now I think Lana relates to that because lana’s music isn’t necessarily always a reflection of who she is. I mean Billie Eilish has that song about killing her lover and having a stomach ache after and explains her and her brother “like to makeup things and pretend wonder, I always had really bad stomach aches” (bad paraphrasing read in article) so if we were to judge Billie from that ONE SONG we’d think she’s a murderer! Yet we know it is not a representation of who she is. The truth is none of us know who any of these artists are, unless you’re close with them and have a relationship to them outside of their art or what they show to the world.
I hate how people project their own prejudices onto Lana’s art. Her lyrics are fine and she owes no one an apology if it’s too depressing or diminishes your self worth . If you are triggered by her imagine, lyrics or seeing an American flag then don’t listen. There’s always Nikki Minaj, Cardi B and Dojo Cat if that aligns more with your self image . SMH
I remember Lorde got so much shit back in the day for talking about other artists, I remember people criticising her looks which was pretty disgusting. Now suddenly everyone misses her lmao
She expressly and deliberately went against the trends of being the empowered girl boss etc...and it made her stand out. Id like to point out though. Its a little ironic that some artists who sing about the strong independent women are the ones who actually struggle with drugs and alcoholism. Like demi lovato and britney spears. These artists are victims of the industry and their whole persona were manufactured to fit the current feminist trend. Its sort of a deceptive message when they push this feminist narrative, while criticizing another artist who came out with a fantasy vulnerability. Thats why i think she came out with that statement in the first place. All of these are marketing strategies and none of them are authentic. They all understand what you need to do to survive
Couldn't agree more. It's so nice to see comments actually ackowledging what she was really trying to say, as opposed to pointing out everything wrong with it, and letting those issues drown out the real message.
I have been trying to tell this to people since ages 😂😂😂 Also, why should she get called out for liking old men when that's not what she does in her current real life. Her older songs were about the life she once lived. She is a strong woman who overcame alcohol addiction. The so called good girl pop stars have had way more problems in real life
It's sad that Britney sings about power while she is basically a slave for her father, label, music industry. Also demi did say that when they wrote/sung confident they weren't feeling confident. It's all about image and fake love
I think one thing about Lana's music that I love is how she talks about real issues. Abuse, drugs, hopelessness, depression, love and sex are all actual things, and while most of us cannot, and hopefully will never be able to, relate to all her songs, it makes her seem like a real person, despite the persona. I absolutely love pop stars like Dua Lipa, Katy Perry and Doja Cat at the moment, but the constant release of "I'm so happy and so in love" or "I'm talking really vaguely about a slightly messy break up" songs feel so far away from realism at times. I think that's why girls were so willing to embrace Lana's music and style; we were finally 'allowed' to feel the other half of the emotions that regular pop told us we shouldn't.
it's absolutely heartbreaking to see what controversies lana has landed herself in recently. i adore her and her music, but it's very hard to defend her these days. love her music tho, born to die, ultraviolence and nfr are iconic and so is she
I don't understand how Lana's music is unrelatable, like at all? When you call something relatable, it doesn't mean that it's a spitting image of your life. Yeah, not all of us messed around with older men and drove race cars, but the feelings that she describes in all of her songs are things that everyone went through at some point(despair in love, living in the moment).
@@GrellxSebby1012 it was a passage in her 1992 book Sex. because the book is semi fiction and semi autobiographical the reality of the situation is unclear
Omg tumblrs obsession with anorexia was freaky. I remember 2014/2015 was when I had the worst body image issues and unfortunately tags like "pro ana" and "thinspo" were so disgustingly abundant. They've cut those back a lot since the purge but man its still a very dangerous place if you end up on the wrong blogs
Not really. "Del Rey" it's just a last name but in Spanish we add "del or de" sometimes to last names but it doesn't have a translation. If that makes any sense I don't really know how to explain it lol
Omg yes the sad girl thing could be so harmful like how everyone idolized characters like Effy and Cassie from skins (which I feel like go hand in hand with Lana del ray and the general tumblr sad girl aesthetic) it was just so bad and harmful
@@Emma-zz2vo the whole 60s marketing cigs to women shtick doesn't help. (nicotine curbs appetite so big tobacco went in hard for women who wanted to be/stay skinny)
@@littlegreenclementine I never knew that. So sad that marketing strategies play off of women's insecurities. The damage it causes, and all for what? to sell more products ;(
@@lovedives yes I remember this. I actually got really sucked into the thinspo movement, if I were to go back to my 'likes' from around that time they would all be of tiny delicate looking girls with thigh gaps. Teens are so impressionable, I mean I probably still carry with me some of those diet tips. It was actually a really dark part of the internet now that I think about it.
I have distain for the viewpoint that just because something is problematic in your opinion, or that you get triggered by something, that that should stop people from creating art.
the nostalgia with the old tumblr screenshots omg also the struggles of teenage years is on point (especially when the realization of omnipresent patriarchy hit me like a brick back then)
I suddenly got such a weird nostalgia thinking back about those teenage tumblr years. I now realise the lore and cultural impact of those communities still very much affect the internet today in nuanced ways (cancel culture, esthetics, fandoms, trigger warnings, social justice ... )
I partly agree with you although I feel like this tends to an extreme sometimes. Sure, Lana's social media presence is quite problematic and she can be irresponsible/ controversial when trying to defend herself, but still, as an artist her role isn't to protect her audience and to be a role model. She never asked tumblr sad teenage girls to romanticize her abuse and can't control the way people are going to interpret her words. Sure, she fuels their aesthetic but at the end of the day she's not responsible for them. What happened to freedom of speech? It's not like we're going to censor/ ban her songs or prevent young women from listening to them! Also, I don't think they take her content literally and they're not that influenceable (at least I'm not...) : sure they enjoy her music and consider it a form of escapism but Lana isn't encouraging them to date men old enough to be their father, she's just writing about her own life and we should just let her.
idk what's with lana stans and immediately dismissing *any* amount of criticism she receives regardless of its validity. lana is talented, yes. her songs can be relatable to some, absolutely, but she isn't a perfect human being and has shown an amount of disconnection from what's going on in the world (which is pretty on brand for a celebrity).
It's so annoying how the stans absolutely explode with any criticism presented and act like she's being harassed all the time,,, like this video is so mild and obviously not enraged hate. Like someone here even flat out said they glorified lana like come on....
@star luv I know a lot of people do that, but have you even considered that not everybody has faves? Or rushes to defend them? Yeah sure, people tend to follow "hate trends" but this video was far from hateful, and she complimented her music multiple times.
I don't think she's perfect but clearly you missed the point of people in the comment section. They are correcting what Mina said because its clearly very biased. Lanas music has actually been relatable to MANY young girls, yes including teenagers. It makes us feel less alone. I don't like this idea of saying 'yes she's talented and relatable but she isn't perfect' well no one said she is? No one is perfect and we can call lana out on her mistakes that's completely fine, but I guess you could say this video didn't do it in the best way. I love minas videos but this one really felt like 'I'm bored so let's slam another celebrity for not being perfect' like I said, I dont have a problem with anyone calling any celebrity out but some of the things Mina said in the video were very clearly subjective to herself and how she feels about lanas music and her persona, which is fine, but I dont like how she used her own experience to generalise everyone and their experiences. That was very clearly expressed in the comment section.
Wow the comments are crazy in here. I'm a Lana stan and I do relate to her music since I was a sugar baby between 19-24 and I have dealt with a lot of abuse. With that said, I did enjoy this critique even if I don't agree everything in it. I'm glad you brought up that Lolita from the hood comment though. As a woman of color who grew up in the hood where I had to dodge predatory grown men at 11 with no protection, that comment bothered me. Especially since Lana grew up rich, went to boarding school and I have seen too many white girls with that background in my real life who used to fetishize "hood life."
I agree. I lived with a roommate who was a high end call girl and she was a sugar baby too with glamorous friends who were all in that circle. They always had that Lana del Rey thing going on and I knew of her from them.
I was a Sad Girl in the early 2010s, and Instagram Sad Girl spaces made it a lot worse for me even though I thought it was making it better. I'm 22 now and haven't hurt myself in years. I'm glad the Sad Girl aesthetic is going away!
I think Lanas vibe has changed, in the beginning it was more glamorous (bee hice, Priscilla...) today it’s more 60s girl, drinking lemonade, smoking cigarettes, in her backyard on a warm summer day in vintage mini mansion, very Mediterranean actually.
I appreciate your take that “persona” isn’t synonymous with lack of authenticity, I haven’t heard anyone say that before and I have to say I agree, even though that is the popular connotation the word has. Though- and I must preface this by saying that I’m not a Lana Stan by any means- I kind of take Lana’s word for it that it wasn’t a persona. In fact, it’s probably the only thing she’s ever said that I agree with. Like, she just had style. And sure, there were motifs in her music as with many artists, but when does style and having recurring themes cross over into being a persona? I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that this vintage-obsessed, submissive, cig smoking Sad Girl with a working class fascination was who she truly was at that time- like, I guess I just don’t see any evidence that that’s anything besides who she really was, for better or worse
As a woc, growing up a teen girl on Lana's music helped me romanticize my sadness and depression not because anything about her aesthetic felt glamorous but because her music and aesthetic seemed to center more around socially acceptable and recognized reasons for young women to be "sad". Obviously anyone who has struggled with mental health or who's seen a loved one struggling with mental health knows that (most of the time) there isn't any real reason, like major event or trigger, why someone is depressed. It's just mento illness luhv
This felt very biased ngl. Lana was an outlet for us people who weren’t “supposed” to be sad, but still were. Almost every song of hers were relatable, especially as a teenager who was still doing wild shit and getting in wild relationships. Can you really fault someone for writing and singing about their own experiences??
@@Jakejones1445 Even in journalism there is bias because we as humans are biased and pick sides. It’s impossible for humans to be truly objective, but responsible journalists will try their best!
i wanted to hear your opinion on the role of a songwriter or any type of influencer (not necessarily Lana). don’t you think it’s wrong to expect these people to limit themselves only because of what the listener might deduct from their work? a songwriter wants to write things true to them and shouldn’t be too focused on what the public will take from it. if someone romanticizes violence isn’t it the role of the reader to use critical thinking and realize it’s not right? i believe it’s very selfish to expect writers to not talk about certain things only because it might send a somewhat negative message.
Nobody should ever be put on a pedestal. People should also ideally have the self awareness and self responsibility to identify when a certain artist/song/concept/person/place/thing/whatever makes them feel more negatively than positively and use that internal indicator to recognize that it’s simply not something they’re personally meant to engage with. Nothing more nothing less. Expecting the entire world and everyone in it to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells for you will only create a vicious cycle of repression and burning resentment from both sides that you can already see starting to happen.
'To be an artist means never to avert one's eyes.' - Akira Kurosawa I do think artists should be free. But as well as being an artist she's also a popular celebrity and a person on social media. Personally I've never been bothered by what is in her art, but more by some of the social media statements.
I think I understand what your saying, and I do disagree. People should be able to discern things from art and form their own thoughts and opinions over it. However, that doesn't excuse any artist to just writing how they feel on the inside, especially if they feel (and thus express) something largely problematic. Now I really don't think Lana is a major issue as she is just writing songs about her own thoughts and feelings with love, depression, and glamour. But ignoring most criticism because it's just how she feels is not a good idea at all. At what point will her songs become too much, and seen as pleasing or something to want in life? Like everything in life, there is a balancing point, and you can tip over the edge.
I think that the point was though, that Lana seemed to take all criticisms very personally in her ig post. And not really listening to the criticisms that were made.
The way she glamorized/romanticized Lolita rubs me the wrong way so much. I hate how romanticized lolita is, I think a big part of it was the 90s movie bc of the cinematography, costuming, and general “aesthetic” of it, that movie was a mistake in my opinion.
Nabokov himself didn't want the book's aesthetic bliss to be attached to real people; he told the editor not to put a girl on the cover. I hate how uncritical of the movie's aesthetic Lana was, just because wearing gingham and dating creepy older men was so central to her image.
I love her music but I agree with you. This Lolita topic was always unsettling. I tried to watch the movie but honestly I couldn't finish it. I can't understand why was even made.
I don't think that the movie is a mistake because they did it with Humbert's point of view. What really is was a mistake is casting a 14/15 yo for the Lolita role. She was so young and that movie is for adults, not teenagers.
The thing about lanas music is also that shes so good at expressing her hurt in such a beautiful way that even though you dont have to have had the same thing happen to you, you can still relate. I remember I started listening to her a lot when i was avout 13/14 goinn throught some heavy shit alongside puberty and her music healed me so much because i felt it was okay to cry and feel bad and just kind of had a place to express it
I only started listening to her at age 20 (not a Sad Girl, but Depressed Adult); and the next year, Lust for Life dropped. I spent that summer in LA, and being able to see her posters on the corner was fantastic! Hear me: Lana may not be a feminist in the popular sense (which branch of feminism is "authentic" then?), but some of her critics are definitely misogynists. A lot of her criticisms should be directed towards wider structural, societal issues like beauty standards, work-place sexual abuse and so on, instead of at her. Also, her opinion that she had no place in feminism might only refer to a branch of feminism heavily appropriated by neoliberal capitalism, you know, the #girlboss type that mainstream female artists don on in one way or another. That isn't actually feminism either, cuz it doesn't empower the vast majority of women, only the few on top. Come to think abt it, Lana's femininity, sentimentality, and non-aggressive sexuality all attracted criticism; I guess she really irked some misogynists huh. So her statement shouldn't be dragged too much. Twitter can be such a toxic place sometimes
That’s exactly what she meant with the statement, (pertaining to girl boss thing) but somehow no one saw that that’s what she meant and it all went nuts 😣
Also, why does she have to be a feminist? Because she is a female? Do we really need to be put in little boxes and little categories all the time? She is a human being talking about human emotions, dark or not. If you try to impose a guideline in the creative act that respects all the little boxes that people imagine, then art is lost.
@@andreeabucur4935 feminism isn't a little box, it's literally a worldwide movement that exists because women keep being discriminated against, abused and killed just because they're women. If given all that you still choose to not align yourself with feminism, don't be surprised people think you're a nonce
@@poisonbiscuits I know what feminism is and I am a feminist. But guess what? Not everybody has to be a feminist. Maybe they align themselves with the core values and they don't want to be called like that. I am not here to trigger. I JUST THINK art it's not to be messed with and also we don't always have to feel separated and be put in categories. That was the point. I don't even like her music so I'm not here to defend her. It's just that I don't get it why does she have to proclaime herself to be something or other - she should be able to say that she is herself and that she sings about her feelings, worm and fuzzy or not. In the grand scheme of things, we should all be ONE, and we should be able to be together and accept our differences, and from that perspective, everything that is separating us, and turning us against eachother seems like a little box (and I am not talking about feminism in particular but about the tendency to say we belong to this or that and everything that is outside is not ok). 🤗
Part of art and being an artist is to freely express yourself, and to shame Lana for her music -her so called “glamorization of abuse” is just b.s. Hurt, pain, grief, unhappiness in relationships, pseudo-happiness from manipulation within those relationships, and a whole slew of other tough things in love and life are all real-life experiences that we all go through. Domestic abuse happens, and yes, sometimes you think it’s love. And it is perfectly okay to admit that. Lana just happens to have the talent of transposing these tough experiences into song. And even with this said, most people’s analysis of Lana is so surface level and basic-minded. Especially in an era where mental health is at the forefront of everyone’s conscience...how f’ed up is it, and how hypocritical is it, that Lana gets hung dry for the unhappiness she has experienced, that she so bravely shares with the world through her music?
I started listening to Lana's music when I was 20 years old. I was stuck in an abusive environment (toxic boyfriend and family issues), working on job that didn't brought me joy and almost dragged me into suicide and I was clueless about what I wanted to do with my life or how could I get out of that blackhole. Her music was something that I could relate to. The lyrics and the trashy Americana vibe for an European girl was just like a balm. A full of sequins wonderland that aloud me to scape from the suburbs nightmare. Meanwhile, I grow up a bit more, left behind all that crap and Lana's songs were still there. It was the Honeymoon Era and I felt she was growing with up me, being a bit less fragile but still stuck to the toxicity of the past. Nowadays I just don't listen to her music because it's just like a trigger. I'm a happy and accomplished women. 30 years old. Graduated, in a healthy relationship, living in a city that makes feel happy and alive and sadly when I listen to her songs, even the new ones I just feel like she is still glamorizing pain a lot. And that's OK! but the Sad Girls are growing up. They have a new mindset and they know that path to follow it's self-care, empathy, generosity, etc. Lana its becoming less relatable at least for a very specific generation.
Not really because that's only your own personal experience. She has showed tremendous amounts of growth in her previous three releases and she never glamourized abuse. She just told her story.
I like the few hits that she had but I don't really listen to her actively unless she's on the radio. Never listened to an album. Her music always lowkey triggered me but I respect her as an artist. She makes good pop music but I still think she's overrated. Her style of writing lyrics isn't new or original to me and I listened to other artists and bands that told similar stories so it's not like it's standing out to me. (Listen to the album "MEDS" by Placebo and to songs like "Song to say goodbye", "In the cold light of morning" or "Pierrot the clown" - and this came out in 2006). Many poems or stories I used to write as a teen had similar topics and this was about a decade before she was around (I always made up stories about young and vulnerable s*x workers that were taken advantage of by older men for some reason and I also loved to romanticize it in my head). I have a lot of mixed feelings because I know that it triggers me and I am successful in avoiding it. I sometimes feel jealous that I can't present myself to the world showing my vulneribility and my pain. Then I feel this downwards spiral in my head that tells me I am not suffering enough for being able to tell these stories. Then those artists talk about their troubled youth or that they "f*cked their way up" (may it be part of an alter ego/stage persona or the truth - I don't know) and then I feel like I actually have to suffer and become addicted or to meet the right men and actually f*ck my way up because apparently this is how it works. I try my best to not even surround myself with these scenes or rabbit holes - after all I am not a teen anymore - but you can'r fight feelings and I'm still feeling like an angsty teen although I am in my 30s. Not a fan of these "sad girl scenes" online but I am also trapped into believing that I shouldn't "fix myself" in order to stay attractive because all "hot older rich men" love their girls acting as young and as naive as possible and they like their girls as depressed, skinny and troubled as possible. And no this is not Lana's "fault" because as I said I don't even really listen to her much...this is how I have always been.
she is completely clueless to social "etiquette" but not every ones purpose is to be a political voice. Its stupid to try to force it on celebreties. Lana is a poet, her lyrics and delivery its what resonates and that is beyond any social constructs
It's interesting the constant reference to her "mystique" and "recent" use of social media --- she became famous on a viral home shot music video on darn RUclips... She's been tweeting for years and has always made bold statements on social media. She has, in fact, been ostracized much more for her lyricism than any other female pop artist of the time - merely for being emotive and deeply honest about her personal experience as a woman (whether that be a woman in the world, one living in her world, or within the relationships she finds herself, how she related and relates to her own identity). Her lyricism speaks much of the literature she is influenced by; authors like Ted Huges, T.S Elliot, Anne Sexton, William Carlos Williams, Philip Larkin, even Sylvia Plath, et al. Authors who, similar to Lana, dove into the anima (irrationality) of one's psyche; the shadow self - one of self-loathing, loneliness, sadness, dejectedness, wallow, dissonance, estrangement. The notion that Lana is the "sad girl" embodied is so flawed - Billy Holiday, Amy Winehous, PJ Harvey, Tori Amos, Nina Simone - all women strong in their anima, and who have done the exact same themes in their lyrics years ago. The phenomenon isn't new. Nor is the criticism towards women who do seek to carry their shadow in their art. This is just another way women get silenced -- instead, should we rather be hypersexualized as the normative to project the ideal of the male gaze as artists? Or mold our art of the internal world to be hyper-political to fit the public/external discourse - rather than how it impacts us --- JUST because it is a trend? Must we solely conform to alleged "thought leaders" on the internet who dictate what can be said and about who? So nothing exists beyond the politics and criticism of our time? No nuance in the human condition? I'm so confused. I'm so bored by musicians and artists, who received mainstream success, having to be molded into the concept of consumerist products - not humans having flaws, learning, growing, and expressing themselves. Aren't we bored of canceling people yet? Aren't we bored of trying to create critical discourse analysis on pop culture references rather than solve actual tangible issues in our conversations? Let art be art - let expression be expression - allow literature and lyricism to exist in all of it's honour and flaw. That is the beauty of creation. How we relate to it or become frowned from it, allows us the nuance to make sense of the world we are navigating from various perspectives. It's tragic to see what the internet has done to art, art discourse, literature, and critical thinking in general. Lana del Rey is an incredible artist - and will - in future - be recognized for being one of the greatest lyricists of all time. She deserves more respect and acclaim for the work she has done in the music industry.
This is actually a valuable response, thank you. The video was a misanalysis for me. Radically biased, and trying too hard to be "progressive" in their positioning. I agree with a lot of what yr saying
I think the creator of this video does a really good job at being as non-bias as possible and being diplomatic. This comment above is just so beautifully and perfectly written, and really encompasses the truth. So thank you for writing it and I'm pretty happy and hopeful that there are people with such rich interior lives such as yourself that can stimulate our imaginations and give us a third option and perspective on things.
I agree with most things that you said but she has gotten a lot of hate, and not the holding her accountable respectfully like you do, they have been sexist to her, body-shaming her a lot, calling her ugly, whale, etc...
Thats True but it kinda seems that in recent days Lana doesn’t differentiate between valid critique and hate. To her everything seems like personal attacks which becomes obvious when watching her insta stories where she rants about getting ,revenge‘ on certain magazines for writing something negative about her.
Everyone in the media has to deal with that, please stop trying to exaggerate her victimization, it's weird at this point. Lana has not been anymore bullied then the women she mentioned in her statement and less then by half the women she mentioned.
Also, lana is an artist, I dont think she ever made music for the intention of just getting famous. she wanted to create and express herself through art and music. but she ended up getting famous for it bc it was beautiful and intriguing and great art. and i dont think she should now be held accountable and responsible for creating clean and PC music and that she has to become this great rolemodel just bc she got 'famous'. Why can't she just continue expressing and creating in the way she's always had, FOR HERSELF.
I'm sorry but the Chemtrails cover thing is extremely dumb. It features her sister and closest friends, of which two are women of colour (that I know of). Should she have picked some random people of different etnicities off the street or something?
i dont think that was the problem, the things is that she used that ("I have poc friends, I put them on a cover") as a 'defence' when told the aesthetic she utilizes is problematic
Also most fans weren’t even critiquing the picture for not showing ,enough people of color‘ - most fans just couldn’t believe she would use such a low quality low effort picture as an album cover
@@mariamatedei That's even dumber then, because those two women have been in her music videos and performaces for years. Of course they're really close in real life too. The first time she featured her friends on the cover they were there because her album was in part about them. I agree that the context matters but the album itself is context too.
@@ryul28 you're missing the point again, it literally dorsnt matter if she has poc friends, she can still do and say racist things and having friends of other ethnicities is not a defence or something we should congratulate her for
As a person that wrote a lot of fanfic in 2014-2018, Lana's song never were relatable to me and I never expected the songs to be relatable to my life, and that's why I love Lana's music, it's like a portal to another dimension or another life, it made me think about other people and characters and it was fun. I don't listen to her songs anymore but Lana will always be a important part of my pre-teen phase.
I really dont get why people were mad about her COCC cover, considering that all the girls in the cover were her friends, she choose to put her friends in the cover. If she doesn't have any black, latino or asian friends what's the problem? I feel like y'all are focusing too much on the wrong things
She obviously has access to different types of people, so it strange that she would only be able to make white friends. It makes people wonder if she doesn't want poc friends and/or if poc don't want to be her friend.
@@melanie11237 some of the girls went to boarding school with her, and others are long time friends of hers and her sister from before she was famous, and I think its really nice that she put people that actually cares about her and has been with her since the beginning in the cover, and not just put random poc just to get clout. Its really not that deep, who cares if she has or doesn't has poc friends? Americans are so weird, you guys keep focusing in the wrong stuff, poc have way bigger issues than lack of representation in an alt singer friends group.
@@isabellawerneckzanon3260 POC are allowed to care about issues of different magnitudes. I'm a POC (although not a fan) and I would want to know what an artist I support feels about people who look like me. You don't have to care but don't dismiss other people's concerns. I would be more concerned about her not having POC friends more so than the picture itself.
@@melanie11237 Im a POC too and a big fan. She's from an upscale neighborhood in ny, all this girls are people she know during her whole life, the issue shouldn't be she not having POC friends when she was growing up, it should be why POC weren't in those spaces too, and thats a whole conversation about classicism, elitism and racism thats not her fault. Since she started getting famous she starting to have access to whole different types of people, she's a very private person and we dont know everyone she hangs out with, we didnt even know about some of this girls till she was shooting for the album cover and we got some bts, but to name drop, all of the fans know that Abel is one her closest and first friends in the music industry, basically him, Nicki Lane and ASAP Rocky are her ONLY friends in the music industry that we know of. In stantwt I see more people bothered by this pic than by Ariana's fake tan and it just makes no sense.
@@isabellawerneckzanon3260 I'm not arguing against her not having poc friends growing up. I'm saying people are suspicious of her because she hasn't expanded her demographic of friends much since then. It's pretty evident in her music and the statements she puts out. She can do what she wants, but I do understand this perspective of some of her fans.
Lanas song “Get free” really helped me to realize i have the Choice to not put up with things/ people that hurt me. Listening to this song was very relatable for me at the time i was in a abusive relationship and helped me come to the realization that i can be free from this if i choose.
This is extremely weird. She gets criticized for being herself, writing lyrics referencing her own personal experiences, though it's 100% legit and genuine, and then as time passed by she progressively got over her sadness then people started to shit on her for being "mom like" on social media. Can a woman live and do whatever she wants? She's not responsible for what you're turning yourself to, she's not that powerful, she isn't a witch doing hexes on you to tell you what to do. It's art, it's her feelings that she's putting out there as an artist, it's authenticity in the purest form, how you feel it and whether you allow it to affect you in a negative or positive way, is 100% on you.
I actually think Lana's lyrics are very relatable because they deal with archetypes. I think cultural critics sort of policed her in her early days in a specific way they didn't do with other stars in her cohort. She had committed the thought crime of not buying into corporate, rah-rah, wish-fulfillment, I-don't-need-a-man feminism. Instead, she reflected the unfortunate reality of women who found themselves in abusive or toxic situations. I actually think the way she writes about these topics can be empowering or helpful, because she speaks about these things that are so taboo without moralizing. She presents the complicated, contradictory emotional soup that comes with being a woman who loves a bad man, and most pop artists at that time shied away from staying in that uneasy tension so explicitly, so obviously. Of course, her status as a white woman also shielded her from criticisms other female pop stars experienced, and she's never really come to terms with her privilege. She's since said a lot of tone-deaf things for which she deserves to be held accountable. I do feel that much of the criticism she received early in her career (2012-2014) was essentially in bad faith.
" The problem is not so much with Lana herself but it's society's obsession with beautiful, suffering white women" at 10:39 is the most appropriate thing I heard today.
I really like Marina's approach to the Sad Girl aesthetic, creating the Electra Heart era & persona around the same time as Lana's BTD. She made it clear that it was an alter ego and killed off the character as soon as the era ended, following with a mature era showing her vulnerability. Nowadays, she's much more outspoken about political issues and has even distanced herself from Lana as more controversies about the latter started popping up.
@@BBaaaaa is that what i said? lmao they just clearly don’t know so much about lana or her friendship with marina. maybe y’all should listen to some fans who actually know a bit more , cause lana doesn’t have this "persona" anymore either way lol but y’all shame any woman for anything these days
I am so happy that someone is finally talking about teenage years of our generation. Weird obsession with sickness, self harm, mental illnesses, sadness, drugs and old guys stuck with me still to these days and I feel like I cant even smile in photos because then I am not glamorous, melancholic or interesting enough. Lana and tumblr influenced my life so much its actually scary.
I am a LDR fan, not a stan. I absolutely adore her music and she is hands down my favourite musical artist. I find it interesting how cleverly she often manages to address issues of social injustice and politics in her lyrics and how bad she is at phrasing her personal opinions on social media. Reactionary is definitely the right word here. Her statements often seem like she's high and just blurting out everything that comes to her mind even if it's not in a cohesive order or choice of words (using 'rapper' synonymously for black people/POC, like, YIKES!). I also think her music and lyrics that embrace misery and codependency so openly are a refreshing contrast to that extreme positivity and winner mentality portrayed by other artists. I find it empowering in a way. Because many people do find themselves in such unhealthy situations and her lyrics sound like what someone like that might say to their therapist. It's not glorification, imo, but validation. And having one's experience validated is very important. In that sense, I also think her music is more feminist than even she herself seems to be aware of.
Yeah I actually feel like the sad girl movement is getting bigger - to the point where it’s almost becoming the mainstream. It doesn’t have the 50s/60s aesthetic anymore, but it’s definitely not gone
@@lenatam11 i feel like mainstream stuff like euphoria has exacerbated this, like it's supposedly a realistic portrayal of mental illness but to me it just seems like more glamorization of self-destruction and bad coping mechanisms lmao
It’s great that she donated for clean water for Indigenous communities, but something many of us Indigenous folks have pointed out is the org she donated to specifically helps Navajo communities, but she appropriated the headdress from plains tribes. It’s like offending Germany but donating to france.
I can definitely agree here (being Anishinaabe myself), but I also think it shows that she actually cares for Indigenous cultures in general. If she were to just donate to Plains tribes, I think that would come off as performative-like she is using money as a means to apologize for someone seriously offensive. Although I would like to see her give more attention to Northern Nations, her ability to advocate for and donate to other Indigenous communities shows her genuine care for a range of peoples. Not sure if that made a lot of sense, but honestly anything Lana is/was going to do is going to get criticized in some way; mostly because she’s a woman, like Mina recognized.
It’s because that’s what’s important right now if you cared enough you would see why she donated to that cause she donated because at that time that group needed support the most perhaps they were unseen or something regardless she did a good deed
It's also weird she brought it up in a video where she promoted her book ++ acts as if it makes her a great person or something. Like as if she did it hoping it would become known and reflect in her character
„Every Persona is still you, it’s just a Form of you“ Thank you, I’ve been saying that to so many people and they always be like “No, these people are fake, they never do anything authentic”, when literally everyone has Personas, everyone acts different depending on who they’re with or where they are. It’s a natural thing. Some just go the extreme way, but they should be allowed to express themselves the way they want to.
Saying that Lana is appropriating Latin culture by being in a street gang says more ab the accusers believing that street gangs are an appropriable part of Latin culture than it does about her.
The fact that criticism falls on Lana Del Rey in this way is history repeating itself. Oh poor women too delicate or naive to be able to discern art from reality! My oh my, their fragile minds we must protect them! I can’t think of anything specific at the moment, but there are many things throughout history that women were barred from because it was believed it would make them too emotional or affect their minds. So, that’s the way I find Lana in some bizarre way can be revolutionary and why she got the fame she did. Her music/aesthetic embodies emotion, the very thing society tries to prevent women from experiencing. And that’s why although I don’t agree with her delivery of her Instagram rant, I understand where it’s coming from. Femininity is often expressed in masculine ways- cue the strong, independent woman trope. Lana is one of the few that expresses the feminine as delicate and soft without being condescending about it.
Magazines, the novel, romance novels in particular, mathematics, really just every science and academic pursuit, also those professions traditionally considered to be 'women's work' but only when they leave the home and become big businesses with loads of money, like fashion/clothesmaking and cooking. If it exists, at some point society declared it 'too much' for the 'female mind'.
I agree, I love her for being a soft feminine artist. It's so rare these days that women can be soft and feminine versus a girl boss version of masculine femininity.
i think it is very counterintuitive to what you are trying to say by claiming strong, independent women are masculine. strength and independence are not gendered traits.
Yes 100 percent agree thanks for saying this. I do think there's some small number of feminists who think the only way to be strong is to occupy the traditional male role, and regard all aspects of feminity, vulnerability and softness. And it's weird that Hozier can write a song about being abused and liking it "the blood is rare and SWEET like cherry wine", and it's seen as authentic. And when Lana writes he hit me and it felt like a kiss people lose their shit coz they don't understand how people in abusive relationships can still be in "love" with their abusers, and that's why many find it hard to leave. People will accept a man for saying these things but not when a woman does, because they view women only as naive creatures who are too dumb to understand anything. But Lana has taught me that feminity and fragility do not equate to weakness
@@sautrah I hate so much the fact that we think being a boss is masculine energy. Is it tho? It seems like since women have more rights we are the best bosses. So is it being a boss masculine? Maybe the fact that I think like that its a me problem. (sorry for my english)
The thing I think we’re also forgetting is..Lana Del Rey was not a teenage girl when she made it big in 2012. She was a 26 ish year old young woman who had lived and experienced and dealt with life. Everything isn’t for everyone just yet. Of course young kids can listen and enjoy music at any age but it’s not always meant to resonate with everyone just yet. There’s songs I loved at 14/16 years old but they didn’t hit me hard like they were supposed to until I was deep into my 20’s. Then again I wasnt in a rush to grow up and force myself to feel things...I never pretended to know everything so I happily (or sadly lol) stayed in my lane until my time came and I think with Lana’s music it’s similar. She’s singing for the ppl who know. Her music is not for everyone and that’s okay. And I love the way she made her pain sound beautiful. Or else she woulda just been another angsty punk rock white girl so she did it her way. Being a sad girl isn’t just an aesthetic...for some of us it’s our actual lives and we are not represented at all lol and I get it, it’s depressing but Lana did it well. Even tho we’re sad, we still want love and wanna feel pretty and be glammed but also ish hits the fan like a lot, just as her lyrics convey
i think her vibe change in lust for life, in a positive way. you dont need to be sad in order to be cool, is not sustainable. also, she grew too old to be the lolita character. she is young, early 30s, but in order to be the lolita you need to be child like, and that is a short lived plan.
i was just thinking about this earlier: have you noticed people criticizing teenage boys? I used to brush off the criticisms of teenage girls' interests as an age thing, like how I joke about being an elementary schooler and watching mlp or something, but lately i realized that its more of a gender bias than anything. For some reason, its always teenage *girls* that are dramatic and attention seeking, or teenage *girls* being made fun of for listening to "cringy" pop. but ive hardly seen teenage boys getting made fun of for liking minecraft or whatever stereotypical teenage boys do. Being a teenager is hard in general, but it's infinitely worse when you don't experience it as a boy because then you're subjected to much more judgement just for existing.
Theres something about a woman dying beautiful and young and therefore never ageing that society is so obsessed with. like they’ve been crystallised
It reminds how in the19th century suicide of beautiful young men was romanticized, it's weird
Sure, we're obsessed with beauty, and youth. Especially when it comes to women. But society at large is also just weary of sickness and growing old, so there's an "allure" to the idea of achieving great things and dying right then and there, forever remembered in your prime. For women it does have more to do with looks, but the "live fast, die young, never grow old" also worked on figures like James Deen or Paul Walker.. It's about the talent and potential that these people displayed, they didn't just die young, they died young AND on the top of their game... The 27 club, etc. The sense of loss is amplified by people wondering what else they could've accomplished had they not been stolen away so fast, I think.
E.g Marilyn Monroe and Sharon Tate
@@mychannel-rt2gn And Princess Diana.
@@katymaloney I think that's certainly true in the modern age, but I think for women it's got a longer history. Dying young and beautiful has been romanticized for centuries. For men, their prime comes later. There's something about being a leader and experienced and powerful, like Julius Ceasar. But for women, their prime has always been the young maiden and it hasn't changed.
From Lady Jane Grey, to Ophelia, to Marilyn Monroe. So much art surrounds that idea. The painting 'The Execution of Lady Jane Grey' was and is so famous because it captures the innocence and youth and purity that society has always been to obsessed with. The fact that she was 17 and completely innocent and had to be guided to the block without even knowing what she was dying for. It's why imo, her death has a famous painting and story, but Mary of Scots who died at 44, does not.
It's a recurring theme. Something about the innocence of dying a maiden.
Other thing about teenage girls : Not allowed to like anything, or do anything.
Honestly tho.
fr, everything that girls like is bullied and seen as dumb stuff.
Fr bruh
All I said was that I like 1 bts song and suddenly the whole world is after me 😭
Ikr? I’m not a teenager anymore, but I see it so often that everything teenage girls like is publicly seen as being bad and teenage girls are always shamed for liking stuff or being excited about something.
true it still exists
I think people sometimes forget one simple but yet important thing. People CHANGE. She’s been in the music industry a whole decade!! It’s not 100% about a persona problem but mostly about GROWING.
She also coworked with so many people that would have influenced her work
...or not growing... I don’t think she responds to any kind of criticism, even from her fans, very well. It kinda seems like she sees any kind of criticism as a personal attack and so do her fans
@wayamaya well I get that she might be getting tired of criticism but sorry - she’s a public figure therefore she’ll always get criticism. The problem is that she just can’t seem to differentiate between valid criticism (for example her ignoring Covid guidelines with that stupid glitter net) and unnecessary attacks. To her apparently all criticism is an attack. And ignoring valid critique shows very little self reflection
@wayamaya she responded that the mask had some plastic sewn inside but it’s clearly visible on pictures that that was not the case. (She could’ve just said sorry, I should’ve been more careful but no she made up some lie). When fans were criticizing her Chemtrails cover she jumped into the defense by saying that it *does* feature poc and that her ,best friends and boyfriends are rappers‘ (implying that she’s friends with black people) which made a lot of people mad because it’s basically the ,I’m not racist, see, I have black friends‘ argument. And people weren’t even mad about her ,not showing enough poc‘ - they just really didn’t like the very low quality and badly edited IPhone 5 picture as an album cover. And from an art analysis point (I have literally written an essay about that picture) it would’ve been so easy to make it look better and of a little more quality by changing the lighting, not using a black and white filter, by putting her a little bit more in the focus, by choosing a little higher view point etc... when she was criticized for almost making excuses for tr*mp for inciting the January 6th riot by saying ,I don’t think he meant to incite a riot‘ she went on a minute long rant about how her words are always taken out of context and how everyone is just so unfair when it’s literally so so soooo easy to just hop on your live and say ,her guys I don’t like Tr*mp and riots are bad‘
@wayamaya I do agree that she’s often been needlessly attacked for her lyrics. I also don’t think (or rather I hope she doesn’t) she supports tr*mp but for some reasons she’s really struggling to just find the words tu put it out there idk... and the thing with Lanas covers: she has such a great and unique aesthetic. Especially her earlier music videos are pure art and just really get to you. It just seems to me and many others fans that she completely stopped putting any effort into creating art for her exceptional music... I have all her vinyls but I will never buy Cotcc because it just looks so shitty compared to her other albums... maybe she’s trying to piss people off but it’s really sad that the art has to suffer for it because let’s be real a 2 year old selfie with some filters and PicsArt fonts slapped on it hardly does her songs justice :/ it’s just so sad to see her really iconic looks and unique styles not being shown anymore cause I really loved her vintage vibes glamour aesthetic
Gonna get some hate, but I just have to say… men can sing about fckin 20 girls at a time getting them pregnant and leaving/ drinking and driving/ extreme drug abuse yet it’s played on the radio and not criticized anywhere near as hard as women’s music for being dark & fcked up lol
I agree. I feel like the struggle is more heavy for female artists. Many male artists use derogatory language and sing problematic stuff but somehow they get away with it. When it comes to female artists people are so eager to point out their flaws and defects.
Yeah..I think it’s a classic example of sexism being harmful not only to women but to men as well. Women = fragile vulnerable and impressionable, need to be protected, whereas boys/young men are seen as not needing protection, and often get harmed bc of it. That being said I side with an artists’ right to free expression regardless of how young people may interpret it
Yes the fact that when men talk about “dark subjects” they’re the perpetrator but when we talk about them we’re speaking as the victim and STILL get more criticism than them. Like when sza came out with ctrl and men got mad at her for making “side chick music” when they will talk about the same thing from the other perspective in a joking manner and its okay. Lana is showing the perspective of young girls who are groomed/preyed upon. People just don’t like hearing the victims perspective
Literally, there are old music videos about the act of rape (Falco, Jeanny) and really freak music bands that explore concepts of brutality (like, I don’t know, Rammstein, I guess) but that doesn’t matter. It’s a stage persona. It’s like acting and Lana definitely shows that her stage persona is carefully constructed. That’s what makes every artist succeed - you don’t really talk about yourself, but you’re your “own creation” (and then you have a whole crew that is influencing your image). I think teenagers know much more about this nowadays, than older people and they rarely take things seriously
@@mollymeyer8443 many people who make that point dont go after lana. Although i do think ppl that blindly hate on female rappers are just salty virgins a lot of the time.
On the subject of Sad Girls, I definitely agree more with Mitski when she said "I used to rebel by destroying myself, but realized thats awfully convenient for the world. for some of us our best revolt is self-preservation."
Btw where did you get that shirt? It's rlly cute
I relate so hard to this ^
thats a fucking amazing quote
Where these quote from?!!
@@yoyodz6712 Mitski tweeted it a few years ago
Mitski is truly one of the greatest minds of our generation
people love saying "omg! fake depressed 14 year olds ha ha" but when i was actually depressed at 13, i couldn't get the help i needed because no one believed me. this 'joke' does so much more harm than good. mental illness is independent of age, it's about time we start believing young girls
thank you!!
Agree! Especially hate the idea people are faking a mental illness, when you look deeper if someone is actually going through hoops to fake something that shows one way or another they need some help mentally. (I say deeper because their is people that fake it but they just use it as a personality trait and usually it is clear they don’t even know what they are talking about)
I feel like it has to do with those loud few who actually dO fake mental illnesses (I've met lots of those back then, it was a really toxic place that perpetuated lots of bad misconceptions for me and other students) that drive away those who actually do suffer from these mental disorders. I mean, there could be other reasons as to why people would "fake" these disorders, but it does create more stigma for those who genuinely need help.
@@worstusernameintheworld9871 i think it has a lot to do with how mental illness is romanticised especially on tik tok and tumblr (back in the day).
@@Mrym-q1q I definitely agree to that, not to mention, mental illnesses isn't really properly taught to people, especially in certain places (people where I live don't even talk about it and it's still stigmatized, most people who do speak up for mental health are other teens). So it usually ends up with young people finding out about it online through other people who already perpetuate the normalization of having mental illnesses (and not in a good way) and so they end up replicating that behavior for various reasons. I knew 13 year old me had a short phase like that, which was horrible because nobody out there really knew or told me it was wrong (or even encouraged the behavior) until I found out how toxic the behavior was a year later aND I realized that I had other negative reasons for acting that way. I feel like my answer could vary, but this is what I personally noticed from my own experiences.
In regards to Lana's initial popularity, I think she brought in a way to be young, sexual, and emotional without having to balance it out with some kind of moral purity or strong, take-no-shit persona in the way that Britney, Madonna, and other predecessors conveyed sexuality in music. Lana's music said that one could be sexual, naive, and destructive and not feel the need to apologize or compensate for it, which was weirdly liberating for the time (at least for me). It kinda flipped the emotional love-sick girl trope on its head and turned it into something cool and sexy (and problematic).
I agree with this. I personally was 18-20 when born to die came out and it was great going through my existential crisis with her music even though it was and is definitely problematic.
“I fucked my way up to the top, this is my show” yes, she is unapologetically who she is, that’s why I adore her music for sure! She talks about her emotions in a language I understand better than anything! She’s truly a poet, in the way Bob Dylan is. I’ve always thought poetry is the perfect balance between the physical & the spiritual- combined perfectly. Poetry is the truth, life is stranger than fiction!
THANK YOU
Perfectly put. The naivety from Britney and others really comes off like ‘male gaze’ version of naivety. While lana’s was more like ‘16 year old girl from the 60s wears her moms makeup for the first time on a date and thinks she looks 28’
I also think that what she meant by the 'no place in feminism for me' post: not that she's pretty and white, but that she's explicitly vulnerable and doesn't pretend to be in charge of anything. It was worded poorly, but to me that's such a huge aspect of her 'brand'!
if i didn't romanticize my sadness and found comfort in her songs about being sad i probably would've unalived myself by now
ikr. it’s way better to create something beautiful and artistic out of something ugly than to suppress the ugliness and only view it as a dark thing. you can learn and grow from traumatic situations if you allow yourself to and i believe doing it artistically is the best way to do it. if her music ruins people so much then that’s their own mental struggle they need to deal with, not blame the artist.
The thing is, sadness is addictive. The comfort you find in being sad, always listening to sad songs about dark subjects sucks you in. You never want to leave that dark place once you feel comfortable there and it gets so hard to push yourself up. Idk if I'm making sense or not, that's just how it was for me.
@@wetpants96 Tbh both perspectives make a huge amount of sense. There's no right or wrong way to try to survive I guess.
This is so real lol....
western individualism at its peak
It's such an interesting idea that Lana Del Rey's popularity was a rejection of the GIRL POWER GIRL BOSS vibes being shoved down everyone's throat at the time. Women being equal doesn't mean having to be positive and empowered all the time, it means being able to express the full range of human emotions even if those emotions are destructive. Men have been self destructing since the beginning of history.
It's the fact that she said "there isn't a place in feminism for a woman like me"..... what? She's a white woman, feminism literally started due to white women like her. She's just so tone deaf and that insta post calling out mostly poc's was a nail in the coffin.
@@kinare1853 I don't think you actually grasped the message she was trying to say. She honestly just rlly badly worded it and I definitely think she should have done a better job and not listed black women to prove her point. She was just saying that a lot of women were judging her for not being girl boss and her music always portraying women needing a man, wanting love etc.
@@GrellxSebby1012 but she does have problematic lyrics? Like the lolita song is just very disturbing. And even ultraviolence. Femininity is not equal to letting men walk over you.
@@kinare1853 yeah, but what if that's her experience? she writes about it and there's no reason why people should get mad over it. it's not like "hey let's let man step over us". it's more like, "yeah, that happened, let me tell you". i dont understand why people get mad over other people feelings and experiences..
@@arthurmvandrade but at the end of the day it does glamorize abuse doesn't it? The average listener doesn't know her intentions behind a song, they just take it at face value. And at face value, it is glamorizing abuse. And if she just came out and said it, I wouldn't be bringing it up. Also the timing of the insta post is also really bizarrely considering how much praise and acclaim she was getting at that moment due to nfr.
The fact the media still uses the word “mom” as a way to shame and put woman down in this day and age is honestly disgusting. My mother is wonderful, beautiful and the most amazing human I know. Let’s stop the hate please. 🧡
WHEWW 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻💖💕💗
As a mom, felt attacked too
Yeah. In my language "aunt" is used for same description and IMO it's better because aunts don't have to be close with the kids and it's assumed they're at least in their 30s.
My mom did everything in order for us to survive. If that's shameful for them, I feel sad for their mom.
Mom's are often old maybe that's why they use it? But I mean ik I'm gonna get old someday so 'mom' doesn't make sense or affect me. And I mean... My mom's the strongest person ik so what's so bad with being called mom?
If you wanna go with Jungian psychology then every single person has a persona and that is pretty normal. Just like you said. It's basically you wearing a mask that filters yourself into a version that you feel comfy showing the public. The word persona doesn't necessarily mean fake or acting.
Persona who the hell am I
I agree!
This reminds me so much of how i had to study for bts album Persona back in the day hahaha
@@serendip1tys i just wanna go I just wanna fly
Was gonna like this comment then say you use the word "comfy." God its so cringy
Being Hispanic I always loved seeing Lana gain inspiration from our culture. As a struggling teen, it always made me feel seen in a world where parents were divorcing and I struggled with addiction. I never felt like she disrespected our culture and honestly in Mexico people love her and you would never hear that from latinos. Latinos love our sad girl.
yes i 100% agree!
amén!
I'm glad you said this.
yeah, we don’t care about these things here in latam meanwhile the “latinos”-americans will try soo hard to claim things as cultural appropriation and offensive etc
I'm Hispanic too and I think it's cringe, and so do many ppl of who I know... I know all the yt ppl won't give me internet validation unless I make a comment like that tho, of course 😂
I mean it's cool she donated that stuff tho
In my opinion, the Sad Girl™ aesthetic has migrated to other social media platforms, like Twitter and RUclips, since self-deprecating humor and general pessimism/nihilism seem to be common trends, whereas on Tumblr, I'm seeing a lot more optimism and positivity. That might also be just because of who I follow though
yeah i agree! i think there is a lot of users who migrated to other socials and there is not a lot of new users so most users are veterans already experienced this type of trends and grew out of it
@Anna true
same !! it's interesting to see the shift in tumblr's general culture. and hilarious, because the general internet still thinks the site is the same way lol
@@corvicore6813 Yeah, exactly! When I first got a Tumblr account, I was expecting it to be a lot more negative and toxic because that's what I had found the general internet saying about Tumblr. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Tumblr is actually pretty tame lol
@@everetteschmeverette6866 Yeah, it's definitely super interesting to see how "the norm" has shifted over time. It's kinda like how The Straights™/Breeders have - somewhat - become the punching bag on TikTok nowadays in a lighthearted way (not tryna claim that "heterophobia" is running rampant, but you get my point), whereas even as recently as three, four, five years ago, that wouldn't have been true.
And it's absolutely true that TikTok is glamorizing a lot of messed up stuff nowadays because of their algorithm that prioritizes beauty. That's probably why you see a lot of mentions of EDs, addictions, lowered self esteem, general unhappiness with one's body, etc. It's very messed up but kind of interesting to observe, not gonna lie.
I have never seen men getting dragged for being fake or having a persona or being inauthentic for having a persona
it's bc of misogyny. this creator has a lot of reflection to do.
Right?
Fr rappers are much more problematic than lana's references to nabokov's book
True
and it’s funny bc Lana didn’t have a “persona” her entire “persona” was a metaphor. she wasn’t trying to be Jackie Kennedy, how she dressed, what she wrote, how she acted, it was all simply a metaphor
We’ve become overly paranoid and obsessed with celebrities. It’s almost like we’re constantly trying to expose people for being bad.
this is extremely true. We make a huge fuss out of every thing they do, and even when the things they do aren't that bad, we twist and turn and try to make it seem like they did one of the worst things imaginable. We create problems and blame it on them because it's easier to blame the person in the spotlight than the people in the back.
I think people need to understand that Idolization is another form of dehumanizing, just in an extremely unattainable "positive" direction.
Unrealistic.
this is true for a lot of the media
Cancel culture needs to go
So much truth !!
Lorde's critique on Lana seems so hilarious now, when she's got her own sad girl post-breakup album called Melodrama. It really shows that she was pretty much an unexperienced teenager at the time and just couldn't relate. I think Lana's music is aging like good wine. And it's not just about abuse, daddies and americana (I'm Russian and it does nothing to me), at its core it's about coming to terms with your sadness first and foremost. Lana's music is soothing for me.
literally same. discovering her music as a 12 yo gay boy in russia drastically changed my life cause i felt that much needed support from across the globe. it didn't make me glamorize depression or anything, but rather show i'm not alone in my suffering. and now, 10 years later, i can appreciate the journey she's gone through with her music and i still feel the connection that many just don't get. she's truly one of the best artists of our era.
lorde and lana are both mothers
@@shygyrl2328 tea. both deserve all the flowers for their works of art.
Melodrama doesn't try to make abuse seem beautiful. It isn't about an abusive daddy, it's about her boyfriend, the problems they had and why they had to put an end to a relationship that wasn't working anymore. It's way more mature than Born To Die.
@@semnome9536 if you think lana's music is just about abusive daddies then you've never listened to her music, just heard it.
Imma say it again, female musicians should be allowed to be flawed and complicated as their male counterparts. They should be allowed to write dark subject matter like men do. Allowed to wear what they want without slutshaming. Not sanitizing/excusing bad behavior, just humanizing female artists.
PERIODT
THANK YOU! SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
Yes!!! I’ve always found it disgusting that Chris brown has a whole career but female artists cannot make a single mistake. I think it’s really weird that there’s a huge number of r*pist/racist/violent men in music that go unchecked but we pick out in women when they do nearly a fraction of that. Hold everyone accountable but it’s interesting that only women have to be gardians of morality..
@@Lina-ht3kl the "we" there is the reason you're wrong: it's not the same person people supporting the rapists as criticising marginalised people in good faith.
Yeah people in generel especially artists should do whatever the fuck they want
The prevailing joke that people used to make about Lana was “her music makes me nostalgic for things that haven’t actually happened to me” so when she casts herself in smoky strip clubs, dressed like Marilyn, singing about a much older or heavily tattooed man crying because a girl she was close to isn’t here with her anymore but she’s actually opulently wealthy... some 17 year old was out there going omg same. And it was probably me.
Honey go listen to lauv or harry styles
@@Shivalimusic I’m ok thanks
yea its insane that shes actually from a super wealthy family w connections to the movie industry. im still a fan but it changes things a bit
@@MelitaBintoro I mean when her birth name is Elizabeth Grant the wealth just jumps off the page
Yes thank you. I love her music but it makes me nostalgic for things I haven’t experienced. I don’t always want to feel nostalgic as it makes me sad.
I wouldn't say the 'sad girl' aesthetic is gone. To me, Billie Eilish embodies that image for gen z
I wasn’t gone but now came with more emotional responsibility
@lizzie fan what does that have to do with my comment?
Eww she fux with xxxtention cord? Pass!!!
also you could say that "e-girl" aesthetics on tik tok and instagram are essentially extensions of the sad girl persona that we had on tumblr
Billie Eilish imo is The generic version of Lorde.
As a black teenage girl, I was so relieved to have found an artist to whom I could relate; no need for a physical resemblance. It wasn't, necessarily, the allusions to abuse or addiction or whatnot but rather the way she translated her life into an art that made her experiences worthwhile and, thus, beautiful. Her _life_ is an art; a canvas onto which she paints many brushstrokes-some vibrant and bold and controversial while others are soft and simple and conventional; but it is altogether a beautiful conglomerate of persona and personality-herself.
Lana was and is being whoever she may be; she's on her own path, growing as she learns-as we all must. Criticism deserves something to criticize, and she seems unafraid of being put under its lens. Never a thing worthwhile was left uncontemplated. Never a great work of art left unscrutinized. Thus always making the one brave enough to make it immortalized. 🕊
Same
That’s beautiful.
I was never into Lana but this is the exact place the music I listen to holds In my heart. You have very important words here.
I'm in my 30s, but I'm still depressed and relate to Lana's music. Being sad isn't just an outdated fashion statement, it's a mental illness. Some of us never stopped being "sad girls", and sometimes glamorizing my life is the only way I have to cope with depression.
Amen.
yes
Who's in ur pfp :D ?
Totally agree. It makes you feel seen and special for the things you can’t change
Well said
As a woman of color, i have to say that Lana saved me, her music helped me cope depression when i was a teenager.
I didn't admire her for how she looked. Im a black woman, she is white. I live in the caribbean. She lives in USA. what connected me to her was her music, the feelings, the struggle.
Lololol. The struggle? She grew up upper middle class.
@@vlera8447 she’s talking about the stories she tells in her music of struggling women, not Lizzie’s actual struggle. That’s the point of being a song writer or an actress playing characters
@@vlera8447 This just in: you're not allowed to have emotions if you grew up well off.
@@vlera8447 I will never understand this kind of comment. Struggle can happen through many shapes and forms. For example, Lana was an alcoholic at 14-15 years old. Does this sound like grew up in a healthy environment, where she was looked after?
@@vlera8447 yet she had a drug addiction and alcohol addiction and was groomed and lived in a trailer park for most of her life?
just had a flashback of the MANY first season AHS photos on Tumbrl. "normal people scare me" will haunt me forever lol
OMG NORMAL PEOPLE SCARE ME BROUGHT SOOOO MANY MEMORIES
noooooo don't remind us
@@aathenaiz6151 Creepers shoes and Adventure Time sad edits are included? lol
@@boldanabrasevic3020 cant wait in a few years for 2014-16 tumbrl and we love it pics to be on IG pop culture profiles!!! cringy but SO nostalgic content lol
Omfg sorry i was one of those kids that made a gif of that
Lana never said she's a role model to anyone. People have a different way of coping with trauma/abuse and she just happens to express hers through her art (music). You can't seriously expect every person to express their 'darker' feelings the same way. She's not afraid to express herself. Seriously, imagine how boring all the art would be if the artists constantly had to worry about sending the wrong image of themselves 🙄
A lot of what made and still makes Lana's music so intoxicating is the freedom she sings about that a lot of teenaged girls don't have, due to school and other responsibilities. As a brown girl, I could relate to wanting to be free to do what I want because as fellow brown girls know, we aren't given much freedom. Lana sang about having no responsibilities and doing things because she wanted to, something we could only dream of. also I would say she isn't exclusively inspired by the 50s and 60s, but also the 70s, 80s and 90s, especially in albums such as Ultraviolence, NFR and LFL.
That’s true as someone who personally lived with a strict Hispanic mother, it was hard to have your own physical freedom. For example, not being able to go out and just have fun. Lana Del Rey’s music was the only freedom I knew during high school and with her storytelling it was almost as if you envisioned yourself in it.
Thank you!! ❤️❤️❤️ Lana is a true artist who has evolved over the years. I would for this “person” whoever she is to go attack every single male artist who shares their unhappy lives, or she only attack Lana Because she’s a female doing it?
I would also say that she was one of the only ones across male and female performers that was singing about freedom and doing what you want at the time, a lot of the males were just simping over women and money
Brown girl here and totally agree
I agree as someone that has lost her youth to mental illness. I wanted my rebellion phase and careless phase so much yet I never had a chance to behave like a 'normal' teenager and sometimes it makes me sick
I will always love Lana's universe, music and persona. The storytelling, the lyrics, the instrumentals, the music videos... it's all absolutely perfect to me, no false note.
same. i love her
Art, that's very rare now days.
Same. And I like that she's always been unfiltered and told her story as it was
Pure art ✨✨
💙💙💙💙
I was raised by a single mother who lived the life described in Lana Del Rey's music. I witnessed 8 different stepfathers and the way my mother was completely blind to the toxic dynamics she was engaging in. This forced me to grow up looking at the world from the perspective of a lost and troubled woman who trusted men way too much. I eventually carried those emotions into adulthood and I truly feel in my heart that I lived her experiences at least emotionally.
She and I often talk about this bond we have.
To understand Lana Del Rey is to understand the disillusionment of womanhood, and the great lengths they go through to smile pretty for disapproving and emotionally unavailable men.
You can try your hardest to bash Lana's lyrical themes, but to do that is to bash the reality of women that came before you. Broken women deserve representation too. You can't erase their stories from history.
You described that beautifully, Lana has given voice to so many women. People who are not familiar with Lana's work do not understand this. Ultraviolence is one of the albums that changed the way I see life. I hope your mother is better now
You described ot beautifully 👏🏼
Thank you 💗💕
Ultraviolence literally saved my life.
Thank you. Someone gets it. Her music empowers me, personally. A statement of I may seem soft and feminine, but I have a story to tell, I’ve been singing the same song my whole life and no one has ever stopped to listen..
I strongly disagree with saying that she romanticized abusive relationships, she simply wrote her songs and created her art based on her own experiences as a woman who experienced abuse. A victim's perspective shouldn't be judged like that, it is a life lasting trauma and to say that she was telling her story in the 'wrong' way is to invalidate her experience, as well as stating that there is a 'correct' way to cope with trauma and abuse, it's nonsense. Although I have my own critiques towards her, that is not one of them.
I agree. Pain and victimhood are valid emotions, and shouldn’t be neglected because they are negative. Music can be a channel for letting those emotions out. Personally I felt lana’s song was like a friend who understood my pain. It helped me cope with hard times.
THIS!!!^^ you put it so well
Is it trauma/abuse if she wants it and consents to it?
factsss.
🖤🖤🖤
please do marina and the diamonds! her personas are so cool, and can we talk about Lana Del Rey's romanticization vs Marina's critiques of America(na)
Qq
Oh I’d watch the hell out of this
my favorite thing about this is that they actually became friends ksdkkf
also i remember back in the time when the two of them + florence were considered the holy trinity of indie music, i used to be lowkey obsessed with the 3 of them and their music
omg yess
*a teen girl liking billie eilish*
people for literally no reason: "omg the fake depressed 14 year olds"
This hurts because I used to think and say stuff like that.
@@Lunella08 well, it's good that you've grown
@@fibromiteready2fight809 Yeah. I now realize it was coming from a place of self-hate since I enjoyed some of the things I hated on other girls for openly liking. I'm just glad I grew out of that and now have the strength to be myself.
@@Lunella08 ✨G R O W T H ✨ love to hear it :)
@@Lunella08 Yayyy for growth! I remember I was a teen and would feel edgy for hating certain music and artist but now im like fuck it love whoever you want. The number 1 thing i found funny is people like to hate on popular stuff because they think they are unique and against the grain......but hating on things because they are popular is the same thing. You are also a sheep jumping on a band wagon because its popular to hate that thing. For example BTS for me, people like to shit on them but most of them have heard 1 maybe 2 songs and then think they know everything and will talk shit because everyone else is also talking shit. I feel like once you do research on a subject THEN you can critique it all you want, if not you are also doing what everyone else does, you arent special and you arent cool.
I think some people dont actually realize that she is not just an artist who portraits depressed, melancholic women and such. Her music is deeply meaningfull and she is so hardworking, talented thus should be appreciated.
lol
@@umuti17 King of nothingness. Literally the dirt on a public bathroom floor has more relevance than your replies.
The thing I'm confused by is since when is telling a story about your PERSONAL experiences considered glamourizing. I thought people wanted authenticity and the reality but when you give it to them they don't want it anymore because it gets too real for them.
Also, she Isn't responsible for raising teen girls around the globe, their parents are responsible for that
I think it's not fair to use "romanticizing" as a criticism. Anything popular literally will be romanticized because everyone, especially teens want to be cool and unique. So they jump on any new aesthetic and see it as cool. It's impossible to write about anything without having someone romanticize it. It's not the artist's fault.
Beautifully said🙌🏻
exactly, she's making art about her abuse and now people are telling her how she's coping is wrong. it seems very insensitive to me.
There is a difference between telling experiences and romanticizing them. You can say “oh x happened. I though y, z, and w about it” without saying “oh x happened. It was y, z, and w.”
@@completely100percenthuman you don't get to decide what other people are allowed to feel. You don't get to tell people how to deal with their situation and how to act/feel about it. That's not how it works.
I’m very grateful to Lana for writing the song ‘Carmen’ which reminds me so much of my mother, to be able to write certain people to life and the emotions that come with their experiences isn’t an easy thing to do, the truth is that life can be sad and beautiful and both sides need to be represented in music. It isn’t just an aesthetic.
Carmen is my favorite song of all time! So dreamy, dark and melancholic
I guess the song has a special power of evoking memories of people, because it always reminds me of my childhood friend
@@stoneheart8231 It is one of my all time favorite songs as well 🖤🖤
I understand what your message was and I agree with most of the things you’ve said about her career and her music. But to be honest, we need to stop thinking that artists are responsible for our children…yes her music can influence you but in the end it’s your decision… I’ve been a fan of LDR for a really long time, and I’ve never for once thought that she glamorised sadness or abuse… she talked about it in a way that no one ever did. She said everything we felt, that’s how relatable she was… I love her and her music, I think she’s an unique artist… most female only sing about love and boys and pussy, and when she came, she showed most woman that life is not roses and champanhe and that’s what I freakin love about her, she’s raw…
I see the points in your comment except the cringy "most female" thing. We're called women and most women DON'T sing about "love and boys and pussy". It's not our fault your taste in music is limited. Women are out there killing it in various rock subgenres, women are taking more and more space in modern metal. Women are doing the fcking thing.
I don’t get the hate she gets. Billie eilish talks about suicide in her music so much more and doesn’t get dragged for it. “I wanna end, I wanna end me, I wanna end me” in her lyrics. The hypocrisy
I feel like there are several reasons people would give her hate, which were all mentioned in the video and that's what the more recent hate has been about. Overall, from statements she puts out/things she says it just seems like she's still behind the general direction of growth in society, though she does seem to have grown some. It's true that Billie Eilish sings about her mental health struggles a lot, but she somehow doesn't seem to glamorize imo. And she was actually a teenage girl when she started
probably because Billie Eilish is more edgy about it and gives you the feeling she isn't all that serious about it, or that she's somehow distanced emotionally and therefore cool - young people say things like FML (fuck my life) and "I wanna kill myself" all the time yet they don't actually mean that - while Lana was or at least seemed more serious about her feelings? idk, just my guess, I'm under impression that people don't like sensitive, vulnerable women who just share their feelings like that and tell it like it is because this is what a typical woman is like, they prefer the ones who at least try to act tough and put the mask on, or who detach themselves emotionally
the difference is there is nothing ¨glamorous¨ or ¨romantic¨ about the song bury a friend rather it frames the suicide reference in a scary manner. lana has a bad habit of framing suicide, abusive relationships, and drug abuse as a key aspect of her glam sad girl aesthetic thus making it something young people might unfortunately romanticize
Billie Eilish is barely an adult (19) and Lana is a grown woman in her mid 30s
@@joeyrivers8845 I don't think young people would romanticise those things BECAUSE of Lana, rather, they already do it themselves and therefore relate to Lana who sings about feelings they're familiar with
The hyper fixation on her lyrics and references and calling them out as ‘problematic’ and ‘influencing young girls’ not only shows how women in music, media in general, can’t make a single flaw when so many male artists are constantly referencing things like rape, assault, controlling women ect and in a much more explicit, graphic way then LDR did when talking about violence, but also, shows how we still see teenage girls as these impressionable mindless creatures. Calling her persona ‘shattered’ and saying she is failing to be mysterious like Prince shows that her persona is not fake because she is a person and is growing and changing with time and she is not ripping off other artists who crave this specific persona. Also her ‘mum like’ media presence ppl criticise and her filters isn’t ‘corny’ it’s her being herself and not changing and adapting to fit in with younger generations, being authentic like everyone is ASKING FOR!
men have been singing about being sad for decades but if a woman does she's suddenly ruining an entire generation of teenagers, it's just ridiculous
Exactly! You definitely put it into the best perspective. Thank you
so true!!
Amen!
exactly. Not to mention that Lana has no responsibility to sensor herself for young teen audiences. She's not a disney or nickelodeon star. She's a star in general, she didn't put herself out there to be a role model for impressionable young people, so that criticism of all artists needs to stop. Let them be who they are without worrying it'll reflect badly on your kids. If you don't want your impressionable teens consuming media about this then watch what they do, talk with them about how the things she sings about aren't right in real life.
I can’t help but compare her a little bit to Alex turner’s personas. Like I can deff see some similarities between how they rose to fame in the US. The only thing is Alex is still kind of shrouded in mystery due to his lack of a social media presence. I think he kept the mystery alive while she shattered the illusion.
i totally agree but never thought of comparing the two ha ha
@@analisa8105 hahaha I’m a bit obsessed with Alex and Lana so that’s why I thought of that comparison lol
I totally see what you mean! Alex kind of looks unattainable whereas Lana seems now more tangible or human-like. And they fill the sad boy and sad girl spectrum, right?
Also, didn’t they work together in the studio? I think Alex helped her with her new album or something like that but I’m not entirely sure...
@@gloriavvaa9043 Yeah that's exactly what I meant! Lol I didn't even know that he and miles helped her with her album, but that's really cool
Super true i used to wish Alex had a social media presence when i was a super fan and starving for content but now i somewhat understood his feelings about social media and present culture from tbhc album i get it why he'd like to stay out of it and it's probably for the best.
that era of tumblr mina talked about really was so detrimental. in addition to those images she referenced (medicine bottles, bruises, tattooes, cigarettes, etc.), I used to see a lot of images of self-harm scars and that as a part of the sad/emo girl aesthetic led me to actually self-harm for many years. yeesh.
i had the exact same experience n have just recently realized it
@@diamondedevil last time I checked tumblr (at least 1 year ago) I noticed that images like that are no longer available. I wonder how different things would have been for me (for us) if tumblr never allowed those images on the site in the first place!
@@lolzlolzlolzlolzlol1 i often think that too, i definitely would not have self harmed bc i now realize the glamorization of self harming clouded for me the severity of the act, im now at a place where i cant even believe i did such a thing but im aware that tumblr had a big part in my perception of it
it really wasn't great was it
OMG this is true for meeee
When you really delve into her discography, there’s songs that are about a lot more than men and I that’s where at least for me I relate to her music, when she’s singing about depression in general such as Black Beauty or Thunder
The whole idea of women needing to be mystique to be popular is just deep-rooted misogyny. Why does expressing her opinion suddenly make her less mysterious? Why do people want Lana to act as an object and say nothing? Why can't people just accept she is a person and that she has no responsibility to do anything for anyone other than herself?
you're right about all of this but please use girls/women instead of females
Exactly.
@@user-ed7et3pb4o Agreed!
Thank you for your input. You are right on the spot
@@user-ed7et3pb4o sry abt that. i was just trying to find another way to say women. i changed it :)
I think that lana is just tired of everything, She doesn’t promote her music or do anything that a celebrity would normally do. Her lyrics are now full of frustration and way more personal. Her music is becoming less cinematic. I think that unfortunately she will stop making music soon. She is probably just tired of her life now
I also think that her persona is like a more glamorous version of herself. If you are a real fan you know that she went through a lot of stuff in her life. Her music is beautiful therefore her lyrics began to be seen as glamorous
I dont think shes gonna stop making music, shes got her loyal fanbase and critical acclaim.
Ok but her mental health is way better now of her own admission and she's literally releasing music so frequently. Why did you have to say that she's probably tired of her own life now?
She's made 3 albums in a year and a half, I don't think she's going to give up music.
@@rosegoldhalo
i actually think blue bannisters is her last album but there are rumors that she is working in a second album with mike dean so idk
I'm 66 currently. I have been fortunate to have lived through several eras of music.. My tastes haven't changed much and I'm still the same Bowie fan I was at 18.
The constant dissection of artists in music is starting to bother me.
I had never heard any of Lana's songs until a month or so ago. By accident I came across Summ Sadness and didn't look back.
She is unique. She is the only artist I've come across that can create a "vibe", or actually put you into a song.
That for me is a true talent.
That's all I need. No need for over analyzing but that's my opinion.
She’s the only singer that I feel sees into my soul. She has saved my life too many times to count. For people to assume she is romanticizing the things she’s singing about, severely overlooks the importance of her music. She sings about her life and in doing so, she has helped so many people, including me
Agreed!!
Okay I have seen so many comments and I have reached my limit . A singer may do good for one community while doing harm to another . Lana did glamorize abuse to people who haven’t been in abusive it toxic relationships she make it seem like it this high fashion fever dream of passion shit when it’s not
@@adrianawilliams4810 Lana never glamorized anything, she never pushed others to do certain things, she just expressed her experiences in her dongs
She doesn’t sing about hopelessness lol that song ends with “but I have it. Yea I have it” she has hope she is sooo positive and happy. She simply expressed the darker sides of her life that we all experience in a dramatic way.
Immediately knew this video was biased asf when that was so purposely cut out
she talks about sylvia plath i don't see how it would convey happiness but ok art is subjective
The Sylvia Plath part is something I was drawn to before I knew of LDR or understood poetry. I think she is comparing and contrasting between her two inner selves. Like her lyrics that pop up “war in my mind” the duality experienced by everyone.But specifically her as a woman who is viewed as unstable or “the sad girl” influencer for glamorizing things that were already glamorized long before her so why does she have to take so much heat/blame? Causing her to maybe feels it’s difficult for her to have hope. Maybe because she doesn’t want to let herself down again or maybe because she knows showing hopefulness and happiness will (like it did) cause her to be picked apart. As if she wasn’t allowed to evolve through the 10 years since she hit most mainstream music (correct if wrong) the same way Taylor Swift evolved. Humans (myself included) create the persona I think more than the artist because we need something to attach the artist to that makes sense to us or makes us comfortable and when the artist changes as one does regardless of their talents/trade, the fans become confused and feel a sense of betrayal. However it seems to settle down as the artist does interviews explaining their change in style or whatever change it is. The artist may gain or lose fans here and there. So I think again Sylvia Plath is known for committing suicide in her oven and the multiple attempts prior to that. But that IS NOT SYLVIA PLATH that is the archetype society created about her. Now I think Lana relates to that because lana’s music isn’t necessarily always a reflection of who she is. I mean Billie Eilish has that song about killing her lover and having a stomach ache after and explains her and her brother “like to makeup things and pretend wonder, I always had really bad stomach aches” (bad paraphrasing read in article) so if we were to judge Billie from that ONE SONG we’d think she’s a murderer! Yet we know it is not a representation of who she is. The truth is none of us know who any of these artists are, unless you’re close with them and have a relationship to them outside of their art or what they show to the world.
I hate how people project their own prejudices onto Lana’s art. Her lyrics are fine and she owes no one an apology if it’s too depressing or diminishes your self worth . If you are triggered by her imagine, lyrics or seeing an American flag then don’t listen. There’s always Nikki Minaj, Cardi B and Dojo Cat if that aligns more with your self image . SMH
I remember Lorde got so much shit back in the day for talking about other artists, I remember people criticising her looks which was pretty disgusting. Now suddenly everyone misses her lmao
The fact that she was so young too...she was a teenager. Teenagers say dumb shit all the time, just go to my high school
She expressly and deliberately went against the trends of being the empowered girl boss etc...and it made her stand out. Id like to point out though. Its a little ironic that some artists who sing about the strong independent women are the ones who actually struggle with drugs and alcoholism. Like demi lovato and britney spears. These artists are victims of the industry and their whole persona were manufactured to fit the current feminist trend. Its sort of a deceptive message when they push this feminist narrative, while criticizing another artist who came out with a fantasy vulnerability. Thats why i think she came out with that statement in the first place. All of these are marketing strategies and none of them are authentic. They all understand what you need to do to survive
Couldn't agree more. It's so nice to see comments actually ackowledging what she was really trying to say, as opposed to pointing out everything wrong with it, and letting those issues drown out the real message.
I have been trying to tell this to people since ages 😂😂😂 Also, why should she get called out for liking old men when that's not what she does in her current real life. Her older songs were about the life she once lived. She is a strong woman who overcame alcohol addiction. The so called good girl pop stars have had way more problems in real life
Diluted white feminism
It's sad that Britney sings about power while she is basically a slave for her father, label, music industry. Also demi did say that when they wrote/sung confident they weren't feeling confident. It's all about image and fake love
0
I think one thing about Lana's music that I love is how she talks about real issues. Abuse, drugs, hopelessness, depression, love and sex are all actual things, and while most of us cannot, and hopefully will never be able to, relate to all her songs, it makes her seem like a real person, despite the persona.
I absolutely love pop stars like Dua Lipa, Katy Perry and Doja Cat at the moment, but the constant release of "I'm so happy and so in love" or "I'm talking really vaguely about a slightly messy break up" songs feel so far away from realism at times. I think that's why girls were so willing to embrace Lana's music and style; we were finally 'allowed' to feel the other half of the emotions that regular pop told us we shouldn't.
it's absolutely heartbreaking to see what controversies lana has landed herself in recently. i adore her and her music, but it's very hard to defend her these days. love her music tho, born to die, ultraviolence and nfr are iconic and so is she
i feel the same… tbh sometimes i wish she would have sort of “disappeared” after the nfr like lorde did
I love her too, but some of the criticisms against her are understandable. Even I hope she learns and becomes better.
justice for honeymoon 😔
truly, those 3 albums are just top tier
@@zellazella1518 High By The Beach is _the_ shit.
I don't understand how Lana's music is unrelatable, like at all? When you call something relatable, it doesn't mean that it's a spitting image of your life. Yeah, not all of us messed around with older men and drove race cars, but the feelings that she describes in all of her songs are things that everyone went through at some point(despair in love, living in the moment).
i think lana is such an interesting topic! another one that would be juust as interesting is madonna imo one of the biggest style icons of all time
@@ironwingartist5578 what the hell?? i literally have never seen or heard of this until now, ew
@@ironwingartist5578 where are the sources for this? I've never seen this before
@@GrellxSebby1012 it was a passage in her 1992 book Sex. because the book is semi fiction and semi autobiographical the reality of the situation is unclear
@dani commenting bc i have the same question and wanna be updated lol
@@gremloid same here I wanna know what the comment was about
Can we just allow someone to be themselves and express themselves?
that's illegal now apparently
@@nicoalbarn yeah FBI open Up!!!
Nah
but what about her saying she doesn't have a persona??
@@crimsonmatter then she just expresses whatever type of persone she feels like at the time
Omg tumblrs obsession with anorexia was freaky. I remember 2014/2015 was when I had the worst body image issues and unfortunately tags like "pro ana" and "thinspo" were so disgustingly abundant. They've cut those back a lot since the purge but man its still a very dangerous place if you end up on the wrong blogs
Fun fact I guess: Lana del Rey literally means “king’s wool” in Spanish
Edit: I put on the word “literally” so it comes across better
yesss but it's for a diff reason!!!
Not really. "Del Rey" it's just a last name but in Spanish we add "del or de" sometimes to last names but it doesn't have a translation. If that makes any sense I don't really know how to explain it lol
@@justhegirlathome ik im Colombian so I talk Spanish but u can search her Wikipedia 💗
@Anna 😍🦶
kinda but like the others said del rey is just a name
Omg yes the sad girl thing could be so harmful like how everyone idolized characters like Effy and Cassie from skins (which I feel like go hand in hand with Lana del ray and the general tumblr sad girl aesthetic) it was just so bad and harmful
I totally agree, it romanticised eating disorders and mental health problems.
@@Emma-zz2vo i totally remember the thinspo and diet tips
@@Emma-zz2vo the whole 60s marketing cigs to women shtick doesn't help. (nicotine curbs appetite so big tobacco went in hard for women who wanted to be/stay skinny)
@@littlegreenclementine I never knew that. So sad that marketing strategies play off of women's insecurities. The damage it causes, and all for what? to sell more products ;(
@@lovedives yes I remember this. I actually got really sucked into the thinspo movement, if I were to go back to my 'likes' from around that time they would all be of tiny delicate looking girls with thigh gaps. Teens are so impressionable, I mean I probably still carry with me some of those diet tips. It was actually a really dark part of the internet now that I think about it.
I have distain for the viewpoint that just because something is problematic in your opinion, or that you get triggered by something, that that should stop people from creating art.
the nostalgia with the old tumblr screenshots omg
also the struggles of teenage years is on point (especially when the realization of omnipresent patriarchy hit me like a brick back then)
I suddenly got such a weird nostalgia thinking back about those teenage tumblr years. I now realise the lore and cultural impact of those communities still very much affect the internet today in nuanced ways (cancel culture, esthetics, fandoms, trigger warnings, social justice ... )
Omg true I feel like current Twitter is nearly same as old Tumblr
, just with more irony, what ya think
Current Twitter and TikTok are basically the old Tumblr.
can't believe you just attributed social justice to tumblr's impact.... come on
@@ffk4919 nah, not social justice. just on internet culture in general
I partly agree with you although I feel like this tends to an extreme sometimes.
Sure, Lana's social media presence is quite problematic and she can be irresponsible/ controversial when trying to defend herself, but still, as an artist her role isn't to protect her audience and to be a role model. She never asked tumblr sad teenage girls to romanticize her abuse and can't control the way people are going to interpret her words. Sure, she fuels their aesthetic but at the end of the day she's not responsible for them. What happened to freedom of speech? It's not like we're going to censor/ ban her songs or prevent young women from listening to them! Also, I don't think they take her content literally and they're not that influenceable (at least I'm not...) : sure they enjoy her music and consider it a form of escapism but Lana isn't encouraging them to date men old enough to be their father, she's just writing about her own life and we should just let her.
" Problematic " lmao
idk what's with lana stans and immediately dismissing *any* amount of criticism she receives regardless of its validity. lana is talented, yes. her songs can be relatable to some, absolutely, but she isn't a perfect human being and has shown an amount of disconnection from what's going on in the world (which is pretty on brand for a celebrity).
The comment section is on fire with stands. You can appreciate someone's music and still be open to criticism.
nobody says she’s perfect, people just criticise what’s being said in the video
It's so annoying how the stans absolutely explode with any criticism presented and act like she's being harassed all the time,,, like this video is so mild and obviously not enraged hate. Like someone here even flat out said they glorified lana like come on....
@star luv I know a lot of people do that, but have you even considered that not everybody has faves? Or rushes to defend them? Yeah sure, people tend to follow "hate trends" but this video was far from hateful, and she complimented her music multiple times.
I don't think she's perfect but clearly you missed the point of people in the comment section. They are correcting what Mina said because its clearly very biased. Lanas music has actually been relatable to MANY young girls, yes including teenagers. It makes us feel less alone. I don't like this idea of saying 'yes she's talented and relatable but she isn't perfect' well no one said she is? No one is perfect and we can call lana out on her mistakes that's completely fine, but I guess you could say this video didn't do it in the best way. I love minas videos but this one really felt like 'I'm bored so let's slam another celebrity for not being perfect' like I said, I dont have a problem with anyone calling any celebrity out but some of the things Mina said in the video were very clearly subjective to herself and how she feels about lanas music and her persona, which is fine, but I dont like how she used her own experience to generalise everyone and their experiences. That was very clearly expressed in the comment section.
Wow the comments are crazy in here. I'm a Lana stan and I do relate to her music since I was a sugar baby between 19-24 and I have dealt with a lot of abuse. With that said, I did enjoy this critique even if I don't agree everything in it.
I'm glad you brought up that Lolita from the hood comment though. As a woman of color who grew up in the hood where I had to dodge predatory grown men at 11 with no protection, that comment bothered me. Especially since Lana grew up rich, went to boarding school and I have seen too many white girls with that background in my real life who used to fetishize "hood life."
I agree. I lived with a roommate who was a high end call girl and she was a sugar baby too with glamorous friends who were all in that circle. They always had that Lana del Rey thing going on and I knew of her from them.
I mean she was sent to a boarding school because she suffered from alcoholism at the age of 14
@lev Exactly
I agree. Just because you like her music and disagree with parts of the video, doesn't mean you can't listen to the critique.
Where did you meet the sugar daddies
I was a Sad Girl in the early 2010s, and Instagram Sad Girl spaces made it a lot worse for me even though I thought it was making it better. I'm 22 now and haven't hurt myself in years. I'm glad the Sad Girl aesthetic is going away!
Well I hope you’re doing okay now. And I’m proud of you for growing. Know that you’re loved and God loves you💙
what bothers me is that these issues online were caused by us teens girls not from anyone else but us. Werid teen brain
I think Lanas vibe has changed, in the beginning it was more glamorous (bee hice, Priscilla...) today it’s more 60s girl, drinking lemonade, smoking cigarettes, in her backyard on a warm summer day in vintage mini mansion, very Mediterranean actually.
@Ana Isabel bee hive
I appreciate your take that “persona” isn’t synonymous with lack of authenticity, I haven’t heard anyone say that before and I have to say I agree, even though that is the popular connotation the word has. Though- and I must preface this by saying that I’m not a Lana Stan by any means- I kind of take Lana’s word for it that it wasn’t a persona. In fact, it’s probably the only thing she’s ever said that I agree with. Like, she just had style. And sure, there were motifs in her music as with many artists, but when does style and having recurring themes cross over into being a persona? I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that this vintage-obsessed, submissive, cig smoking Sad Girl with a working class fascination was who she truly was at that time- like, I guess I just don’t see any evidence that that’s anything besides who she really was, for better or worse
As a woc, growing up a teen girl on Lana's music helped me romanticize my sadness and depression not because anything about her aesthetic felt glamorous but because her music and aesthetic seemed to center more around socially acceptable and recognized reasons for young women to be "sad".
Obviously anyone who has struggled with mental health or who's seen a loved one struggling with mental health knows that (most of the time) there isn't any real reason, like major event or trigger, why someone is depressed. It's just mento illness luhv
This felt very biased ngl. Lana was an outlet for us people who weren’t “supposed” to be sad, but still were. Almost every song of hers were relatable, especially as a teenager who was still doing wild shit and getting in wild relationships. Can you really fault someone for writing and singing about their own experiences??
"people who weren't supposed to be sad but just were" that's exactly it, great description !
I agree tbh
Everything we say is biased lol
@@Manekiinekochan wrong there are ways to be objective when reporting things, it’s called journalism
@@Jakejones1445 Even in journalism there is bias because we as humans are biased and pick sides. It’s impossible for humans to be truly objective, but responsible journalists will try their best!
i wanted to hear your opinion on the role of a songwriter or any type of influencer (not necessarily Lana). don’t you think it’s wrong to expect these people to limit themselves only because of what the listener might deduct from their work? a songwriter wants to write things true to them and shouldn’t be too focused on what the public will take from it. if someone romanticizes violence isn’t it the role of the reader to use critical thinking and realize it’s not right? i believe it’s very selfish to expect writers to not talk about certain things only because it might send a somewhat negative message.
Nobody should ever be put on a pedestal. People should also ideally have the self awareness and self responsibility to identify when a certain artist/song/concept/person/place/thing/whatever makes them feel more negatively than positively and use that internal indicator to recognize that it’s simply not something they’re personally meant to engage with. Nothing more nothing less. Expecting the entire world and everyone in it to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells for you will only create a vicious cycle of repression and burning resentment from both sides that you can already see starting to happen.
it's really unfair, art shouldn't be restricting
'To be an artist means never to avert one's eyes.' - Akira Kurosawa
I do think artists should be free. But as well as being an artist she's also a popular celebrity and a person on social media. Personally I've never been bothered by what is in her art, but more by some of the social media statements.
I think I understand what your saying, and I do disagree. People should be able to discern things from art and form their own thoughts and opinions over it. However, that doesn't excuse any artist to just writing how they feel on the inside, especially if they feel (and thus express) something largely problematic.
Now I really don't think Lana is a major issue as she is just writing songs about her own thoughts and feelings with love, depression, and glamour. But ignoring most criticism because it's just how she feels is not a good idea at all. At what point will her songs become too much, and seen as pleasing or something to want in life? Like everything in life, there is a balancing point, and you can tip over the edge.
I think that the point was though, that Lana seemed to take all criticisms very personally in her ig post. And not really listening to the criticisms that were made.
The way she glamorized/romanticized Lolita rubs me the wrong way so much. I hate how romanticized lolita is, I think a big part of it was the 90s movie bc of the cinematography, costuming, and general “aesthetic” of it, that movie was a mistake in my opinion.
fr, they should've just kept it as a book
Nabokov himself didn't want the book's aesthetic bliss to be attached to real people; he told the editor not to put a girl on the cover. I hate how uncritical of the movie's aesthetic Lana was, just because wearing gingham and dating creepy older men was so central to her image.
I love her music but I agree with you. This Lolita topic was always unsettling. I tried to watch the movie but honestly I couldn't finish it. I can't understand why was even made.
If you haven’t watched Lola Sebastian (formerly Ms. Lola)‘s video on Lolita i highly highly recommend it!
I don't think that the movie is a mistake because they did it with Humbert's point of view. What really is was a mistake is casting a 14/15 yo for the Lolita role. She was so young and that movie is for adults, not teenagers.
The thing about lanas music is also that shes so good at expressing her hurt in such a beautiful way that even though you dont have to have had the same thing happen to you, you can still relate. I remember I started listening to her a lot when i was avout 13/14 goinn throught some heavy shit alongside puberty and her music healed me so much because i felt it was okay to cry and feel bad and just kind of had a place to express it
I only started listening to her at age 20 (not a Sad Girl, but Depressed Adult); and the next year, Lust for Life dropped. I spent that summer in LA, and being able to see her posters on the corner was fantastic!
Hear me: Lana may not be a feminist in the popular sense (which branch of feminism is "authentic" then?), but some of her critics are definitely misogynists.
A lot of her criticisms should be directed towards wider structural, societal issues like beauty standards, work-place sexual abuse and so on, instead of at her. Also, her opinion that she had no place in feminism might only refer to a branch of feminism heavily appropriated by neoliberal capitalism, you know, the #girlboss type that mainstream female artists don on in one way or another. That isn't actually feminism either, cuz it doesn't empower the vast majority of women, only the few on top. Come to think abt it, Lana's femininity, sentimentality, and non-aggressive sexuality all attracted criticism; I guess she really irked some misogynists huh. So her statement shouldn't be dragged too much. Twitter can be such a toxic place sometimes
That’s exactly what she meant with the statement, (pertaining to girl boss thing) but somehow no one saw that that’s what she meant and it all went nuts 😣
Also, why does she have to be a feminist? Because she is a female? Do we really need to be put in little boxes and little categories all the time? She is a human being talking about human emotions, dark or not. If you try to impose a guideline in the creative act that respects all the little boxes that people imagine, then art is lost.
@@andreeabucur4935 feminism isn't a little box, it's literally a worldwide movement that exists because women keep being discriminated against, abused and killed just because they're women. If given all that you still choose to not align yourself with feminism, don't be surprised people think you're a nonce
@@poisonbiscuits I know what feminism is and I am a feminist. But guess what? Not everybody has to be a feminist. Maybe they align themselves with the core values and they don't want to be called like that. I am not here to trigger. I JUST THINK art it's not to be messed with and also we don't always have to feel separated and be put in categories. That was the point. I don't even like her music so I'm not here to defend her. It's just that I don't get it why does she have to proclaime herself to be something or other - she should be able to say that she is herself and that she sings about her feelings, worm and fuzzy or not. In the grand scheme of things, we should all be ONE, and we should be able to be together and accept our differences, and from that perspective, everything that is separating us, and turning us against eachother seems like a little box (and I am not talking about feminism in particular but about the tendency to say we belong to this or that and everything that is outside is not ok). 🤗
Part of art and being an artist is to freely express yourself, and to shame Lana for her music -her so called “glamorization of abuse” is just b.s. Hurt, pain, grief, unhappiness in relationships, pseudo-happiness from manipulation within those relationships, and a whole slew of other tough things in love and life are all real-life experiences that we all go through. Domestic abuse happens, and yes, sometimes you think it’s love. And it is perfectly okay to admit that. Lana just happens to have the talent of transposing these tough experiences into song. And even with this said, most people’s analysis of Lana is so surface level and basic-minded. Especially in an era where mental health is at the forefront of everyone’s conscience...how f’ed up is it, and how hypocritical is it, that Lana gets hung dry for the unhappiness she has experienced, that she so bravely shares with the world through her music?
thank you so much for this
Eloquent
I started listening to Lana's music when I was 20 years old. I was stuck in an abusive environment (toxic boyfriend and family issues), working on job that didn't brought me joy and almost dragged me into suicide and I was clueless about what I wanted to do with my life or how could I get out of that blackhole. Her music was something that I could relate to. The lyrics and the trashy Americana vibe for an European girl was just like a balm. A full of sequins wonderland that aloud me to scape from the suburbs nightmare.
Meanwhile, I grow up a bit more, left behind all that crap and Lana's songs were still there. It was the Honeymoon Era and I felt she was growing with up me, being a bit less fragile but still stuck to the toxicity of the past.
Nowadays I just don't listen to her music because it's just like a trigger. I'm a happy and accomplished women. 30 years old. Graduated, in a healthy relationship, living in a city that makes feel happy and alive and sadly when I listen to her songs, even the new ones I just feel like she is still glamorizing pain a lot. And that's OK! but the Sad Girls are growing up. They have a new mindset and they know that path to follow it's self-care, empathy, generosity, etc. Lana its becoming less relatable at least for a very specific generation.
Not really because that's only your own personal experience. She has showed tremendous amounts of growth in her previous three releases and she never glamourized abuse. She just told her story.
I like the few hits that she had but I don't really listen to her actively unless she's on the radio. Never listened to an album. Her music always lowkey triggered me but I respect her as an artist. She makes good pop music but I still think she's overrated. Her style of writing lyrics isn't new or original to me and I listened to other artists and bands that told similar stories so it's not like it's standing out to me. (Listen to the album "MEDS" by Placebo and to songs like "Song to say goodbye", "In the cold light of morning" or "Pierrot the clown" - and this came out in 2006). Many poems or stories I used to write as a teen had similar topics and this was about a decade before she was around (I always made up stories about young and vulnerable s*x workers that were taken advantage of by older men for some reason and I also loved to romanticize it in my head). I have a lot of mixed feelings because I know that it triggers me and I am successful in avoiding it. I sometimes feel jealous that I can't present myself to the world showing my vulneribility and my pain. Then I feel this downwards spiral in my head that tells me I am not suffering enough for being able to tell these stories. Then those artists talk about their troubled youth or that they "f*cked their way up" (may it be part of an alter ego/stage persona or the truth - I don't know) and then I feel like I actually have to suffer and become addicted or to meet the right men and actually f*ck my way up because apparently this is how it works. I try my best to not even surround myself with these scenes or rabbit holes - after all I am not a teen anymore - but you can'r fight feelings and I'm still feeling like an angsty teen although I am in my 30s. Not a fan of these "sad girl scenes" online but I am also trapped into believing that I shouldn't "fix myself" in order to stay attractive because all "hot older rich men" love their girls acting as young and as naive as possible and they like their girls as depressed, skinny and troubled as possible. And no this is not Lana's "fault" because as I said I don't even really listen to her much...this is how I have always been.
she is white so why wouldn’t she represent herself? and why do we have to be feminists? and why angry about the flag? very irrational
You should be a feminist because you should care about other women!
@@lavose8709you don't have to be a full fledged feminist to care about other women, caring is just being a decent human being
the legend has posted again 😌
she is completely clueless to social "etiquette" but not every ones purpose is to be a political voice. Its stupid to try to force it on celebreties. Lana is a poet, her lyrics and delivery its what resonates and that is beyond any social constructs
Yes🙏
I do agree in a sense that people shouldn’t be looking to celebrities to always be political icons
@Google profile her lyrics n music
and what they make us feel
Yes! Thank you 🙏
Bruh her teenage girl talk was so eye-opening, i could feel 15 year old me relating to everything she's saying. Great video
It's interesting the constant reference to her "mystique" and "recent" use of social media --- she became famous on a viral home shot music video on darn RUclips... She's been tweeting for years and has always made bold statements on social media. She has, in fact, been ostracized much more for her lyricism than any other female pop artist of the time - merely for being emotive and deeply honest about her personal experience as a woman (whether that be a woman in the world, one living in her world, or within the relationships she finds herself, how she related and relates to her own identity). Her lyricism speaks much of the literature she is influenced by; authors like Ted Huges, T.S Elliot, Anne Sexton, William Carlos Williams, Philip Larkin, even Sylvia Plath, et al. Authors who, similar to Lana, dove into the anima (irrationality) of one's psyche; the shadow self - one of self-loathing, loneliness, sadness, dejectedness, wallow, dissonance, estrangement. The notion that Lana is the "sad girl" embodied is so flawed - Billy Holiday, Amy Winehous, PJ Harvey, Tori Amos, Nina Simone - all women strong in their anima, and who have done the exact same themes in their lyrics years ago. The phenomenon isn't new. Nor is the criticism towards women who do seek to carry their shadow in their art. This is just another way women get silenced -- instead, should we rather be hypersexualized as the normative to project the ideal of the male gaze as artists? Or mold our art of the internal world to be hyper-political to fit the public/external discourse - rather than how it impacts us --- JUST because it is a trend? Must we solely conform to alleged "thought leaders" on the internet who dictate what can be said and about who? So nothing exists beyond the politics and criticism of our time? No nuance in the human condition? I'm so confused.
I'm so bored by musicians and artists, who received mainstream success, having to be molded into the concept of consumerist products - not humans having flaws, learning, growing, and expressing themselves. Aren't we bored of canceling people yet? Aren't we bored of trying to create critical discourse analysis on pop culture references rather than solve actual tangible issues in our conversations? Let art be art - let expression be expression - allow literature and lyricism to exist in all of it's honour and flaw. That is the beauty of creation. How we relate to it or become frowned from it, allows us the nuance to make sense of the world we are navigating from various perspectives. It's tragic to see what the internet has done to art, art discourse, literature, and critical thinking in general. Lana del Rey is an incredible artist - and will - in future - be recognized for being one of the greatest lyricists of all time. She deserves more respect and acclaim for the work she has done in the music industry.
Really interesting
This is actually a valuable response, thank you. The video was a misanalysis for me. Radically biased, and trying too hard to be "progressive" in their positioning. I agree with a lot of what yr saying
I think the creator of this video does a really good job at being as non-bias as possible and being diplomatic. This comment above is just so beautifully and perfectly written, and really encompasses the truth. So thank you for writing it and I'm pretty happy and hopeful that there are people with such rich interior lives such as yourself that can stimulate our imaginations and give us a third option and perspective on things.
I agree with most things that you said but she has gotten a lot of hate, and not the holding her accountable respectfully like you do, they have been sexist to her, body-shaming her a lot, calling her ugly, whale, etc...
Thats True but it kinda seems that in recent days Lana doesn’t differentiate between valid critique and hate. To her everything seems like personal attacks which becomes obvious when watching her insta stories where she rants about getting ,revenge‘ on certain magazines for writing something negative about her.
@@VS-bm3ep I can definitely see what you're talking about.
@@VS-bm3ep i mean some of the magazines did wrote lies about her but yeah, a lot of things she had done deserve critism
Everyone in the media has to deal with that, please stop trying to exaggerate her victimization, it's weird at this point. Lana has not been anymore bullied then the women she mentioned in her statement and less then by half the women she mentioned.
@@VS-bm3ep Nor can her fans.
Also, lana is an artist, I dont think she ever made music for the intention of just getting famous. she wanted to create and express herself through art and music. but she ended up getting famous for it bc it was beautiful and intriguing and great art. and i dont think she should now be held accountable and responsible for creating clean and PC music and that she has to become this great rolemodel just bc she got 'famous'. Why can't she just continue expressing and creating in the way she's always had, FOR HERSELF.
I'm sorry but the Chemtrails cover thing is extremely dumb. It features her sister and closest friends, of which two are women of colour (that I know of). Should she have picked some random people of different etnicities off the street or something?
i dont think that was the problem, the things is that she used that ("I have poc friends, I put them on a cover") as a 'defence' when told the aesthetic she utilizes is problematic
Also most fans weren’t even critiquing the picture for not showing ,enough people of color‘ - most fans just couldn’t believe she would use such a low quality low effort picture as an album cover
@@mariamatedei That's even dumber then, because those two women have been in her music videos and performaces for years. Of course they're really close in real life too. The first time she featured her friends on the cover they were there because her album was in part about them. I agree that the context matters but the album itself is context too.
@@VS-bm3ep its her cover she can do what she wants?
@@ryul28 you're missing the point again, it literally dorsnt matter if she has poc friends, she can still do and say racist things and having friends of other ethnicities is not a defence or something we should congratulate her for
As a person that wrote a lot of fanfic in 2014-2018, Lana's song never were relatable to me and I never expected the songs to be relatable to my life, and that's why I love Lana's music, it's like a portal to another dimension or another life, it made me think about other people and characters and it was fun. I don't listen to her songs anymore but Lana will always be a important part of my pre-teen phase.
I really dont get why people were mad about her COCC cover, considering that all the girls in the cover were her friends, she choose to put her friends in the cover. If she doesn't have any black, latino or asian friends what's the problem? I feel like y'all are focusing too much on the wrong things
She obviously has access to different types of people, so it strange that she would only be able to make white friends. It makes people wonder if she doesn't want poc friends and/or if poc don't want to be her friend.
@@melanie11237 some of the girls went to boarding school with her, and others are long time friends of hers and her sister from before she was famous, and I think its really nice that she put people that actually cares about her and has been with her since the beginning in the cover, and not just put random poc just to get clout. Its really not that deep, who cares if she has or doesn't has poc friends? Americans are so weird, you guys keep focusing in the wrong stuff, poc have way bigger issues than lack of representation in an alt singer friends group.
@@isabellawerneckzanon3260 POC are allowed to care about issues of different magnitudes. I'm a POC (although not a fan) and I would want to know what an artist I support feels about people who look like me. You don't have to care but don't dismiss other people's concerns. I would be more concerned about her not having POC friends more so than the picture itself.
@@melanie11237 Im a POC too and a big fan. She's from an upscale neighborhood in ny, all this girls are people she know during her whole life, the issue shouldn't be she not having POC friends when she was growing up, it should be why POC weren't in those spaces too, and thats a whole conversation about classicism, elitism and racism thats not her fault. Since she started getting famous she starting to have access to whole different types of people, she's a very private person and we dont know everyone she hangs out with, we didnt even know about some of this girls till she was shooting for the album cover and we got some bts, but to name drop, all of the fans know that Abel is one her closest and first friends in the music industry, basically him, Nicki Lane and ASAP Rocky are her ONLY friends in the music industry that we know of. In stantwt I see more people bothered by this pic than by Ariana's fake tan and it just makes no sense.
@@isabellawerneckzanon3260 I'm not arguing against her not having poc friends growing up. I'm saying people are suspicious of her because she hasn't expanded her demographic of friends much since then. It's pretty evident in her music and the statements she puts out. She can do what she wants, but I do understand this perspective of some of her fans.
Thé sad girl aesthetic is much more prevalent online but separate from her. I think it’s part of that kind ghostly ghoulish aesthetic too
Mina, as a latín boy i would love to see a video about Selena’s fashion, that’s very very iconic. hope you’re doing fine. 💖💖💖
omggg yesss she had and still has SUCH an Iconic LOOK! ugh love that women to bits
OMG YESSS
Lanas song “Get free” really helped me to realize i have the Choice to not put up with things/ people that hurt me. Listening to this song was very relatable for me at the time i was in a abusive relationship and helped me come to the realization that i can be free from this if i choose.
This is extremely weird. She gets criticized for being herself, writing lyrics referencing her own personal experiences, though it's 100% legit and genuine, and then as time passed by she progressively got over her sadness then people started to shit on her for being "mom like" on social media. Can a woman live and do whatever she wants? She's not responsible for what you're turning yourself to, she's not that powerful, she isn't a witch doing hexes on you to tell you what to do. It's art, it's her feelings that she's putting out there as an artist, it's authenticity in the purest form, how you feel it and whether you allow it to affect you in a negative or positive way, is 100% on you.
very well put👍
I actually think Lana's lyrics are very relatable because they deal with archetypes. I think cultural critics sort of policed her in her early days in a specific way they didn't do with other stars in her cohort. She had committed the thought crime of not buying into corporate, rah-rah, wish-fulfillment, I-don't-need-a-man feminism. Instead, she reflected the unfortunate reality of women who found themselves in abusive or toxic situations. I actually think the way she writes about these topics can be empowering or helpful, because she speaks about these things that are so taboo without moralizing. She presents the complicated, contradictory emotional soup that comes with being a woman who loves a bad man, and most pop artists at that time shied away from staying in that uneasy tension so explicitly, so obviously. Of course, her status as a white woman also shielded her from criticisms other female pop stars experienced, and she's never really come to terms with her privilege. She's since said a lot of tone-deaf things for which she deserves to be held accountable. I do feel that much of the criticism she received early in her career (2012-2014) was essentially in bad faith.
" The problem is not so much with Lana herself but it's society's obsession with beautiful, suffering white women" at 10:39 is the most appropriate thing I heard today.
I really like Marina's approach to the Sad Girl aesthetic, creating the Electra Heart era & persona around the same time as Lana's BTD. She made it clear that it was an alter ego and killed off the character as soon as the era ended, following with a mature era showing her vulnerability. Nowadays, she's much more outspoken about political issues and has even distanced herself from Lana as more controversies about the latter started popping up.
True! I love Marina so much
so obvious u know nothing about lana.
@@hara3756 just because they have a different opinion than you and me doesn't mean they don't know about what they're talking about.
@@BBaaaaa is that what i said? lmao they just clearly don’t know so much about lana or her friendship with marina. maybe y’all should listen to some fans who actually know a bit more , cause lana doesn’t have this "persona" anymore either way lol but y’all shame any woman for anything these days
@@hara3756 this is the most idiotic response I've read to a comment in such a long time.
I am so happy that someone is finally talking about teenage years of our generation. Weird obsession with sickness, self harm, mental illnesses, sadness, drugs and old guys stuck with me still to these days and I feel like I cant even smile in photos because then I am not glamorous, melancholic or interesting enough. Lana and tumblr influenced my life so much its actually scary.
I sympathise with you deeply.
I am a LDR fan, not a stan. I absolutely adore her music and she is hands down my favourite musical artist.
I find it interesting how cleverly she often manages to address issues of social injustice and politics in her lyrics and how bad she is at phrasing her personal opinions on social media.
Reactionary is definitely the right word here. Her statements often seem like she's high and just blurting out everything that comes to her mind even if it's not in a cohesive order or choice of words (using 'rapper' synonymously for black people/POC, like, YIKES!).
I also think her music and lyrics that embrace misery and codependency so openly are a refreshing contrast to that extreme positivity and winner mentality portrayed by other artists. I find it empowering in a way. Because many people do find themselves in such unhealthy situations and her lyrics sound like what someone like that might say to their therapist. It's not glorification, imo, but validation. And having one's experience validated is very important.
In that sense, I also think her music is more feminist than even she herself seems to be aware of.
💯
I'm happy you mentioned Audrey Wollen! One thing I don't agree - sad girl movement didn't die. Look at Billie Eilish.
v true but i feel like billie is also growing out of it
Yeah I actually feel like the sad girl movement is getting bigger - to the point where it’s almost becoming the mainstream. It doesn’t have the 50s/60s aesthetic anymore, but it’s definitely not gone
@@lenatam11 i feel like mainstream stuff like euphoria has exacerbated this, like it's supposedly a realistic portrayal of mental illness but to me it just seems like more glamorization of self-destruction and bad coping mechanisms lmao
@@stargirl32102 Oh yes definitely! I think you’re right!
It’s great that she donated for clean water for Indigenous communities, but something many of us Indigenous folks have pointed out is the org she donated to specifically helps Navajo communities, but she appropriated the headdress from plains tribes. It’s like offending Germany but donating to france.
I can definitely agree here (being Anishinaabe myself), but I also think it shows that she actually cares for Indigenous cultures in general. If she were to just donate to Plains tribes, I think that would come off as performative-like she is using money as a means to apologize for someone seriously offensive. Although I would like to see her give more attention to Northern Nations, her ability to advocate for and donate to other Indigenous communities shows her genuine care for a range of peoples. Not sure if that made a lot of sense, but honestly anything Lana is/was going to do is going to get criticized in some way; mostly because she’s a woman, like Mina recognized.
It’s because that’s what’s important right now if you cared enough you would see why she donated to that cause she donated because at that time that group needed support the most perhaps they were unseen or something regardless she did a good deed
It's also weird she brought it up in a video where she promoted her book ++ acts as if it makes her a great person or something. Like as if she did it hoping it would become known and reflect in her character
@@11mazatl or its to promote more people to join in and donate but hey what do i know you love canceling her
@@motiondesire8786 lmfao you're so upset that anyone has any criticisms for lana
„Every Persona is still you, it’s just a Form of you“
Thank you, I’ve been saying that to so many people and they always be like “No, these people are fake, they never do anything authentic”, when literally everyone has Personas, everyone acts different depending on who they’re with or where they are. It’s a natural thing. Some just go the extreme way, but they should be allowed to express themselves the way they want to.
Saying that Lana is appropriating Latin culture by being in a street gang says more ab the accusers believing that street gangs are an appropriable part of Latin culture than it does about her.
Exactly
The fact that criticism falls on Lana Del Rey in this way is history repeating itself. Oh poor women too delicate or naive to be able to discern art from reality! My oh my, their fragile minds we must protect them! I can’t think of anything specific at the moment, but there are many things throughout history that women were barred from because it was believed it would make them too emotional or affect their minds.
So, that’s the way I find Lana in some bizarre way can be revolutionary and why she got the fame she did. Her music/aesthetic embodies emotion, the very thing society tries to prevent women from experiencing. And that’s why although I don’t agree with her delivery of her Instagram rant, I understand where it’s coming from. Femininity is often expressed in masculine ways- cue the strong, independent woman trope. Lana is one of the few that expresses the feminine as delicate and soft without being condescending about it.
Magazines, the novel, romance novels in particular, mathematics, really just every science and academic pursuit, also those professions traditionally considered to be 'women's work' but only when they leave the home and become big businesses with loads of money, like fashion/clothesmaking and cooking. If it exists, at some point society declared it 'too much' for the 'female mind'.
I agree, I love her for being a soft feminine artist. It's so rare these days that women can be soft and feminine versus a girl boss version of masculine femininity.
i think it is very counterintuitive to what you are trying to say by claiming strong, independent women are masculine. strength and independence are not gendered traits.
Yes 100 percent agree thanks for saying this. I do think there's some small number of feminists who think the only way to be strong is to occupy the traditional male role, and regard all aspects of feminity, vulnerability and softness. And it's weird that Hozier can write a song about being abused and liking it "the blood is rare and SWEET like cherry wine", and it's seen as authentic. And when Lana writes he hit me and it felt like a kiss people lose their shit coz they don't understand how people in abusive relationships can still be in "love" with their abusers, and that's why many find it hard to leave. People will accept a man for saying these things but not when a woman does, because they view women only as naive creatures who are too dumb to understand anything. But Lana has taught me that feminity and fragility do not equate to weakness
@@sautrah I hate so much the fact that we think being a boss is masculine energy. Is it tho? It seems like since women have more rights we are the best bosses. So is it being a boss masculine? Maybe the fact that I think like that its a me problem. (sorry for my english)
from fashion to music, Mina can literally do anything and it’s absolutely lovely
The thing I think we’re also forgetting is..Lana Del Rey was not a teenage girl when she made it big in 2012. She was a 26 ish year old young woman who had lived and experienced and dealt with life. Everything isn’t for everyone just yet. Of course young kids can listen and enjoy music at any age but it’s not always meant to resonate with everyone just yet. There’s songs I loved at 14/16 years old but they didn’t hit me hard like they were supposed to until I was deep into my 20’s. Then again I wasnt in a rush to grow up and force myself to feel things...I never pretended to know everything so I happily (or sadly lol) stayed in my lane until my time came and I think with Lana’s music it’s similar. She’s singing for the ppl who know. Her music is not for everyone and that’s okay. And I love the way she made her pain sound beautiful. Or else she woulda just been another angsty punk rock white girl so she did it her way. Being a sad girl isn’t just an aesthetic...for some of us it’s our actual lives and we are not represented at all lol and I get it, it’s depressing but Lana did it well. Even tho we’re sad, we still want love and wanna feel pretty and be glammed but also ish hits the fan like a lot, just as her lyrics convey
i think her vibe change in lust for life, in a positive way. you dont need to be sad in order to be cool, is not sustainable. also, she grew too old to be the lolita character. she is young, early 30s, but in order to be the lolita you need to be child like, and that is a short lived plan.
i was just thinking about this earlier: have you noticed people criticizing teenage boys? I used to brush off the criticisms of teenage girls' interests as an age thing, like how I joke about being an elementary schooler and watching mlp or something, but lately i realized that its more of a gender bias than anything. For some reason, its always teenage *girls* that are dramatic and attention seeking, or teenage *girls* being made fun of for listening to "cringy" pop. but ive hardly seen teenage boys getting made fun of for liking minecraft or whatever stereotypical teenage boys do. Being a teenager is hard in general, but it's infinitely worse when you don't experience it as a boy because then you're subjected to much more judgement just for existing.
it's not always easy for teenage boys either. especially if you're gay. people will eat you up for showing emotion or being sensitive