Exactlyyyyyy!!!! I wish people understood this more. It can be a good thing! I'm sure even artists who don't have an explicit persona make efforts to differentiate their real selves from their on stage counterpart, to remember when they're being an artist trying to sell their work and perform vs when they're being a real human being with friends and family and a private life to protect. It can serve as a way to make them see their performing and recording music as what it is: a job and a responsibility
I think to some degree everyone that lives in a society had to build up a persona for the sake of interaction and norms, the problem arises when you end up indetifying with it and ms.Lana seems to be struggling in that regard. It is merely a part of you, not the whole of you.
I think the vintage look she has is more attainable because it’s not glamorous. Dita von tease feels VERY hyper glam and hyper vintage, most of the time that aesthetic isn’t something most people can have. lanas vintage style is much more dressed down. It’s more pieces that a regular middle class teenager (lana is not middle class I’m aware of her family’s wealth) could find at target, the thrift store, or a family members closet. I think that is why her specific style and persona took off within the fashion sphere.
Well her style of vintage is like ‘white trash’, not a dig by the way as I grew up working class myself. But the idea is that of a trailer park girl from the 60s like Celia from ‘the help’ or like Marilyn monroe before she escaped to Hollywood.
i think her style looks like 1950-60s white middle class America through rose colored lenses. Like those illustrations of perfect nuclear families with a mix of pin up girl and even a little bit like sexy crackhead who just puked but somehow looks good
As a teenage girl that has become obsessed with Lana's music in the past few years, I think the thing I like so much about it is that it isn't relatable, and so it feels like escapism. Listening to Lana's music is like watching a movie or reading a book.
lol for me was the other way, when i was living that trashy life that she always sings about, i was obssesed with her. i even thought Ultraviolence was going to be my wedding song. Now that im so far for it, i just saw it plain pathetic and stupid of her to glorify bullshit tbh.
As a black teenage girl, I was so relieved to have found an artist to whom I could relate; no need for a physical resemblance. It wasn't, necessarily, the allusions to abuse or addiction or whatnot but rather the way she translated her life into an art that made her experiences worthwhile and, thus, beautiful. Her _life_ is an art; a canvas onto which she paints many brushstrokes-some vibrant and bold and controversial while others are soft and simple and conventional; but it is altogether a beautiful conglomerate of persona and personality-herself. Lana was and is being whoever she may be; she's on her own path, growing as she learns-as we all must. Criticism deserves something to criticize, and she seems unafraid of being put under its lens. Never a thing worthwhile was left uncontemplated. Never a great work of art left unscrutinized. Thus always making the one brave enough to make it immortalized. 🕊
On the subject of Sad Girls, I definitely agree more with Mitski when she said "I used to rebel by destroying myself, but realized thats awfully convenient for the world. for some of us our best revolt is self-preservation." Btw where did you get that shirt? It's rlly cute
I think people sometimes forget one simple but yet important thing. People CHANGE. She’s been in the music industry a whole decade!! It’s not 100% about a persona problem but mostly about GROWING.
...or not growing... I don’t think she responds to any kind of criticism, even from her fans, very well. It kinda seems like she sees any kind of criticism as a personal attack and so do her fans
@wayamaya well I get that she might be getting tired of criticism but sorry - she’s a public figure therefore she’ll always get criticism. The problem is that she just can’t seem to differentiate between valid criticism (for example her ignoring Covid guidelines with that stupid glitter net) and unnecessary attacks. To her apparently all criticism is an attack. And ignoring valid critique shows very little self reflection
@wayamaya she responded that the mask had some plastic sewn inside but it’s clearly visible on pictures that that was not the case. (She could’ve just said sorry, I should’ve been more careful but no she made up some lie). When fans were criticizing her Chemtrails cover she jumped into the defense by saying that it *does* feature poc and that her ,best friends and boyfriends are rappers‘ (implying that she’s friends with black people) which made a lot of people mad because it’s basically the ,I’m not racist, see, I have black friends‘ argument. And people weren’t even mad about her ,not showing enough poc‘ - they just really didn’t like the very low quality and badly edited IPhone 5 picture as an album cover. And from an art analysis point (I have literally written an essay about that picture) it would’ve been so easy to make it look better and of a little more quality by changing the lighting, not using a black and white filter, by putting her a little bit more in the focus, by choosing a little higher view point etc... when she was criticized for almost making excuses for tr*mp for inciting the January 6th riot by saying ,I don’t think he meant to incite a riot‘ she went on a minute long rant about how her words are always taken out of context and how everyone is just so unfair when it’s literally so so soooo easy to just hop on your live and say ,her guys I don’t like Tr*mp and riots are bad‘
@wayamaya I do agree that she’s often been needlessly attacked for her lyrics. I also don’t think (or rather I hope she doesn’t) she supports tr*mp but for some reasons she’s really struggling to just find the words tu put it out there idk... and the thing with Lanas covers: she has such a great and unique aesthetic. Especially her earlier music videos are pure art and just really get to you. It just seems to me and many others fans that she completely stopped putting any effort into creating art for her exceptional music... I have all her vinyls but I will never buy Cotcc because it just looks so shitty compared to her other albums... maybe she’s trying to piss people off but it’s really sad that the art has to suffer for it because let’s be real a 2 year old selfie with some filters and PicsArt fonts slapped on it hardly does her songs justice :/ it’s just so sad to see her really iconic looks and unique styles not being shown anymore cause I really loved her vintage vibes glamour aesthetic
Sure, we're obsessed with beauty, and youth. Especially when it comes to women. But society at large is also just weary of sickness and growing old, so there's an "allure" to the idea of achieving great things and dying right then and there, forever remembered in your prime. For women it does have more to do with looks, but the "live fast, die young, never grow old" also worked on figures like James Deen or Paul Walker.. It's about the talent and potential that these people displayed, they didn't just die young, they died young AND on the top of their game... The 27 club, etc. The sense of loss is amplified by people wondering what else they could've accomplished had they not been stolen away so fast, I think.
@@katymaloney I think that's certainly true in the modern age, but I think for women it's got a longer history. Dying young and beautiful has been romanticized for centuries. For men, their prime comes later. There's something about being a leader and experienced and powerful, like Julius Ceasar. But for women, their prime has always been the young maiden and it hasn't changed. From Lady Jane Grey, to Ophelia, to Marilyn Monroe. So much art surrounds that idea. The painting 'The Execution of Lady Jane Grey' was and is so famous because it captures the innocence and youth and purity that society has always been to obsessed with. The fact that she was 17 and completely innocent and had to be guided to the block without even knowing what she was dying for. It's why imo, her death has a famous painting and story, but Mary of Scots who died at 44, does not. It's a recurring theme. Something about the innocence of dying a maiden.
Gonna get some hate, but I just have to say… men can sing about fckin 20 girls at a time getting them pregnant and leaving/ drinking and driving/ extreme drug abuse yet it’s played on the radio and not criticized anywhere near as hard as women’s music for being dark & fcked up lol
I agree. I feel like the struggle is more heavy for female artists. Many male artists use derogatory language and sing problematic stuff but somehow they get away with it. When it comes to female artists people are so eager to point out their flaws and defects.
Yeah..I think it’s a classic example of sexism being harmful not only to women but to men as well. Women = fragile vulnerable and impressionable, need to be protected, whereas boys/young men are seen as not needing protection, and often get harmed bc of it. That being said I side with an artists’ right to free expression regardless of how young people may interpret it
Yes the fact that when men talk about “dark subjects” they’re the perpetrator but when we talk about them we’re speaking as the victim and STILL get more criticism than them. Like when sza came out with ctrl and men got mad at her for making “side chick music” when they will talk about the same thing from the other perspective in a joking manner and its okay. Lana is showing the perspective of young girls who are groomed/preyed upon. People just don’t like hearing the victims perspective
Literally, there are old music videos about the act of rape (Falco, Jeanny) and really freak music bands that explore concepts of brutality (like, I don’t know, Rammstein, I guess) but that doesn’t matter. It’s a stage persona. It’s like acting and Lana definitely shows that her stage persona is carefully constructed. That’s what makes every artist succeed - you don’t really talk about yourself, but you’re your “own creation” (and then you have a whole crew that is influencing your image). I think teenagers know much more about this nowadays, than older people and they rarely take things seriously
@@mollymeyer8443 many people who make that point dont go after lana. Although i do think ppl that blindly hate on female rappers are just salty virgins a lot of the time.
Ikr? I’m not a teenager anymore, but I see it so often that everything teenage girls like is publicly seen as being bad and teenage girls are always shamed for liking stuff or being excited about something.
In regards to Lana's initial popularity, I think she brought in a way to be young, sexual, and emotional without having to balance it out with some kind of moral purity or strong, take-no-shit persona in the way that Britney, Madonna, and other predecessors conveyed sexuality in music. Lana's music said that one could be sexual, naive, and destructive and not feel the need to apologize or compensate for it, which was weirdly liberating for the time (at least for me). It kinda flipped the emotional love-sick girl trope on its head and turned it into something cool and sexy (and problematic).
I agree with this. I personally was 18-20 when born to die came out and it was great going through my existential crisis with her music even though it was and is definitely problematic.
“I fucked my way up to the top, this is my show” yes, she is unapologetically who she is, that’s why I adore her music for sure! She talks about her emotions in a language I understand better than anything! She’s truly a poet, in the way Bob Dylan is. I’ve always thought poetry is the perfect balance between the physical & the spiritual- combined perfectly. Poetry is the truth, life is stranger than fiction!
Perfectly put. The naivety from Britney and others really comes off like ‘male gaze’ version of naivety. While lana’s was more like ‘16 year old girl from the 60s wears her moms makeup for the first time on a date and thinks she looks 28’
I also think that what she meant by the 'no place in feminism for me' post: not that she's pretty and white, but that she's explicitly vulnerable and doesn't pretend to be in charge of anything. It was worded poorly, but to me that's such a huge aspect of her 'brand'!
I always saw her music as storytelling. She sang from the perspective of complex, flawed, and interesting characters in complex, flawed, interesting situations. I also always loved her music videos. The aesthetic, her style, the settings, and the cinematic videography-they were like watching a movie.
people love saying "omg! fake depressed 14 year olds ha ha" but when i was actually depressed at 13, i couldn't get the help i needed because no one believed me. this 'joke' does so much more harm than good. mental illness is independent of age, it's about time we start believing young girls
Agree! Especially hate the idea people are faking a mental illness, when you look deeper if someone is actually going through hoops to fake something that shows one way or another they need some help mentally. (I say deeper because their is people that fake it but they just use it as a personality trait and usually it is clear they don’t even know what they are talking about)
I feel like it has to do with those loud few who actually dO fake mental illnesses (I've met lots of those back then, it was a really toxic place that perpetuated lots of bad misconceptions for me and other students) that drive away those who actually do suffer from these mental disorders. I mean, there could be other reasons as to why people would "fake" these disorders, but it does create more stigma for those who genuinely need help.
@@Mrym-q1q I definitely agree to that, not to mention, mental illnesses isn't really properly taught to people, especially in certain places (people where I live don't even talk about it and it's still stigmatized, most people who do speak up for mental health are other teens). So it usually ends up with young people finding out about it online through other people who already perpetuate the normalization of having mental illnesses (and not in a good way) and so they end up replicating that behavior for various reasons. I knew 13 year old me had a short phase like that, which was horrible because nobody out there really knew or told me it was wrong (or even encouraged the behavior) until I found out how toxic the behavior was a year later aND I realized that I had other negative reasons for acting that way. I feel like my answer could vary, but this is what I personally noticed from my own experiences.
If you wanna go with Jungian psychology then every single person has a persona and that is pretty normal. Just like you said. It's basically you wearing a mask that filters yourself into a version that you feel comfy showing the public. The word persona doesn't necessarily mean fake or acting.
It's such an interesting idea that Lana Del Rey's popularity was a rejection of the GIRL POWER GIRL BOSS vibes being shoved down everyone's throat at the time. Women being equal doesn't mean having to be positive and empowered all the time, it means being able to express the full range of human emotions even if those emotions are destructive. Men have been self destructing since the beginning of history.
It's the fact that she said "there isn't a place in feminism for a woman like me"..... what? She's a white woman, feminism literally started due to white women like her. She's just so tone deaf and that insta post calling out mostly poc's was a nail in the coffin.
@@kinare1853 I don't think you actually grasped the message she was trying to say. She honestly just rlly badly worded it and I definitely think she should have done a better job and not listed black women to prove her point. She was just saying that a lot of women were judging her for not being girl boss and her music always portraying women needing a man, wanting love etc.
@@GrellxSebby1012 but she does have problematic lyrics? Like the lolita song is just very disturbing. And even ultraviolence. Femininity is not equal to letting men walk over you.
@@kinare1853 yeah, but what if that's her experience? she writes about it and there's no reason why people should get mad over it. it's not like "hey let's let man step over us". it's more like, "yeah, that happened, let me tell you". i dont understand why people get mad over other people feelings and experiences..
@@arthurmvandrade but at the end of the day it does glamorize abuse doesn't it? The average listener doesn't know her intentions behind a song, they just take it at face value. And at face value, it is glamorizing abuse. And if she just came out and said it, I wouldn't be bringing it up. Also the timing of the insta post is also really bizarrely considering how much praise and acclaim she was getting at that moment due to nfr.
Being Hispanic I always loved seeing Lana gain inspiration from our culture. As a struggling teen, it always made me feel seen in a world where parents were divorcing and I struggled with addiction. I never felt like she disrespected our culture and honestly in Mexico people love her and you would never hear that from latinos. Latinos love our sad girl.
yeah, we don’t care about these things here in latam meanwhile the “latinos”-americans will try soo hard to claim things as cultural appropriation and offensive etc
I'm Hispanic too and I think it's cringe, and so do many ppl of who I know... I know all the yt ppl won't give me internet validation unless I make a comment like that tho, of course 😂 I mean it's cool she donated that stuff tho
Imma say it again, female musicians should be allowed to be flawed and complicated as their male counterparts. They should be allowed to write dark subject matter like men do. Allowed to wear what they want without slutshaming. Not sanitizing/excusing bad behavior, just humanizing female artists.
Yes!!! I’ve always found it disgusting that Chris brown has a whole career but female artists cannot make a single mistake. I think it’s really weird that there’s a huge number of r*pist/racist/violent men in music that go unchecked but we pick out in women when they do nearly a fraction of that. Hold everyone accountable but it’s interesting that only women have to be gardians of morality..
@@Lina-ht3kl the "we" there is the reason you're wrong: it's not the same person people supporting the rapists as criticising marginalised people in good faith.
The fact the media still uses the word “mom” as a way to shame and put woman down in this day and age is honestly disgusting. My mother is wonderful, beautiful and the most amazing human I know. Let’s stop the hate please. 🧡
Yeah. In my language "aunt" is used for same description and IMO it's better because aunts don't have to be close with the kids and it's assumed they're at least in their 30s.
Mom's are often old maybe that's why they use it? But I mean ik I'm gonna get old someday so 'mom' doesn't make sense or affect me. And I mean... My mom's the strongest person ik so what's so bad with being called mom?
people are basically putting the burden of being "a good influence" or role model on celebrities, Lana Del Rey is an artist and her music is amazing, let her express herself through her art and sing about what she wants.
True but because she has influence then she has the ability to do more damage. Great power great responsibility. Her words are worse because they can influence more people.
So you’re saying celebrities don’t have to be responsible? Why wouldn’t you want them to be good influences? Art is subjective so where do you draw the line on expression? What if someone promotes hate with their art? Hitler was an artist after all. What if we had a modern day Hitler who was a musician? Would you support that “cuz it’s art” or would you want them to take responsibility with their huge platform huh
In my opinion, the Sad Girl™ aesthetic has migrated to other social media platforms, like Twitter and RUclips, since self-deprecating humor and general pessimism/nihilism seem to be common trends, whereas on Tumblr, I'm seeing a lot more optimism and positivity. That might also be just because of who I follow though
yeah i agree! i think there is a lot of users who migrated to other socials and there is not a lot of new users so most users are veterans already experienced this type of trends and grew out of it
same !! it's interesting to see the shift in tumblr's general culture. and hilarious, because the general internet still thinks the site is the same way lol
@@corvicore6813 Yeah, exactly! When I first got a Tumblr account, I was expecting it to be a lot more negative and toxic because that's what I had found the general internet saying about Tumblr. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Tumblr is actually pretty tame lol
@@everetteschmeverette6866 Yeah, it's definitely super interesting to see how "the norm" has shifted over time. It's kinda like how The Straights™/Breeders have - somewhat - become the punching bag on TikTok nowadays in a lighthearted way (not tryna claim that "heterophobia" is running rampant, but you get my point), whereas even as recently as three, four, five years ago, that wouldn't have been true. And it's absolutely true that TikTok is glamorizing a lot of messed up stuff nowadays because of their algorithm that prioritizes beauty. That's probably why you see a lot of mentions of EDs, addictions, lowered self esteem, general unhappiness with one's body, etc. It's very messed up but kind of interesting to observe, not gonna lie.
It bothers me that society puts the burden of needing to be a “good influence” or a “role model for young women” onto women just trying to express themselves and live their life. I feel like I see that criticism much less for male artists. Just let Lana create her art. She shouldn’t be criticized for all the possible ways it could be interpreted. Also as a teen girl, teen girls have a lot more critical thinking skills than people make us out to have. When I listen to Lanas music it almost feels like I’m watching a movie and Lana is a character and I’m sucked into her universe. I can’t relate to her and I don’t want to. I like that she tells her story in a way that most people wouldn’t. I love that she has no interest in showing people what they want to see.
Definitely! You can see it in hiphop and the rap genre; While cardi b and meghan thee station get criticised for "sexualising" womanhood and setting the wrong example for young girls, male artist like Drake and Kanye West NEVER get criticized for sexualizing themselves and women, or talking about how cool drugs and money are! It's also seen in pop music artists like Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato who struggled with addiction and encounters with the cops where always critized for being a bad example for kids. But male pop artists like Justin Beiber (who was literally arrested) was never criticised for setting the wrong example for boys (Funny enough, he was criticised for being a bad example for "what kind of boys *girls* like"). So, in conclusion, every critique will ALWAYS be directed towards teen girls and women in general.
@@adrianafetzer Yes! That’s such good example of this, it’s just the same old “Boys will be boys” attitude, while women have to carry so much responsibility on their shoulders
Also the sheer amount of ridicule teenage girls get from the general western public for just being teenage girls and liking the things teenage girls like, is absolutely horrific and contributed to a lot of my personal shame, discomfort, and embarrassment surrounding my own teengirlhood
yes!!! It stinks to be like “I like this thing” and then everyone is like “oh you must be basic” or “aren’t you QuIrKy” like there’s no way out no matter what someone is gonna not like you for being a teen girl and it makes me upset!
Yes! The intensity of the pressure to not be girly or like other girls while still performing the correct amount of femininity to not be considered a man hating feminist or lesbian while going through your most intense exploration/development phase (puberty) and while trying to grapple with your sexuality, dating, and preparing + studying for your future career is literally so self-destructive and insane. Like, the overly dramatic way that drugs + alcohol were pushed on us by adults as the “height of self-destructive peer pressure” while almost nobody even gave a shit about them, while the anti-femme pressure was ignored despite being 10000% worse/more intense/more personal/more damaging/etc is genuinely baffling to me
Honestly. Like, if you’re a fan who screams at concerts and has posters of your favs, you’re a “crazy, obsessive fangirl”? But men can create full on man caves, collecting every piece of sports merch, slobbering at stadium games, and destroying things when their favorite team loses, but somehow _we’re_ the crazy ones??? Last I checked, we don’t start riots at concerts. Make it make sense!
And when guys play video games, people don’t say “You’re a basic bīt ch!” But somehow me getting drinks at the most popular coffee chain = basic? Like, not every girl I know wears makeup or goes to Starbucks, but _every_ guy I know, without fail, plays video games. Somehow we’re all the same, but not them? It’s exhausting.
They honestly do the same to Lana even though she isn't a teenager. I don't really follow any news about celebs but every time something about her shows up on my radar, it's just cruel ridicule. I know she does some shady things but I think people just enjoy battering her.
ikr. it’s way better to create something beautiful and artistic out of something ugly than to suppress the ugliness and only view it as a dark thing. you can learn and grow from traumatic situations if you allow yourself to and i believe doing it artistically is the best way to do it. if her music ruins people so much then that’s their own mental struggle they need to deal with, not blame the artist.
The thing is, sadness is addictive. The comfort you find in being sad, always listening to sad songs about dark subjects sucks you in. You never want to leave that dark place once you feel comfortable there and it gets so hard to push yourself up. Idk if I'm making sense or not, that's just how it was for me.
I am one of the rare cases where Lana's music actually IS relatable. I was already in an established relationship at 20 years old with a man 30 years older than me (which WAS abusive, but I didn't recognize while IN the relationship) and when her music DID come out, she sang about a lot of the struggles that I could personally relate to. Even now that we have broken up, after spending nearly a decade with that man, her music still hits me like no other artist's music. I guess because it was such a unique situation to be in. I can't relate to a lot of romantic music in the mainstream because every relationship I have had has been pretty unconventional. I know Lana is problematic and has done some really insensitive things but damn dude, she was there with me at 3AM crying her eyes out with me over things no one else in my life had ever went through. So she will always hold a really special place in my heart.
Yes I think a lot of people accuse her of romanticizing abuse because they weren't in her situation. They've never experienced such stuff, and if they had, it was something brief and didn't cause anything long term for them. Honestly, it's the lack of understanding, but again maybe she has and it's just different people receiving different messages from her songs.
People say her music romaticizes toxic relationships, which I get, but to me it never felt like that. She had a way of capturing the pain of being in love with a toxic/emotionally abusive person and overlooking that aspect because you love them so much. Or being so into someone that you start to lose yourself and your identity, like in Video Games. It's sad, not romantic and I don't ever think she didn't get that across but that's just me. Like there's a reason Video Games is such a sad and melancholy song.
The prevailing joke that people used to make about Lana was “her music makes me nostalgic for things that haven’t actually happened to me” so when she casts herself in smoky strip clubs, dressed like Marilyn, singing about a much older or heavily tattooed man crying because a girl she was close to isn’t here with her anymore but she’s actually opulently wealthy... some 17 year old was out there going omg same. And it was probably me.
this is extremely true. We make a huge fuss out of every thing they do, and even when the things they do aren't that bad, we twist and turn and try to make it seem like they did one of the worst things imaginable. We create problems and blame it on them because it's easier to blame the person in the spotlight than the people in the back.
I think people need to understand that Idolization is another form of dehumanizing, just in an extremely unattainable "positive" direction. Unrealistic.
As a black women I love lana. I went to her concert and she has a amazing voice! Her music got me out of dark times and listening to her album was like reading a book! Her music is captivating! She also got me into Jazz which now is my favourite genre.
This is so beautiful! I'm really glad to see Lana got you out of dark Times just like me. Just know you're not alone! By the way the person on your pfp looks really pretty💓
I will always love Lana's universe, music and persona. The storytelling, the lyrics, the instrumentals, the music videos... it's all absolutely perfect to me, no false note.
People used to mad at her for glamorizing abuse and making a beautiful image out of sadness. She's beginning to change (as everyone does) and is no longer doing these things. But now the media has new things to criticize her on; her style, the way she makes album covers, any weight gained, etc. It is a representation of how no matter what a woman does in our society they will be criticized exponentially compared to a man. Lana does not exist for you (the viewer) and we should stop acting like it. She exists for herself and gives us content that represents pieces of her person she wants us to see.
@@crowfoot8059 no, she isn't. not once has she exhibited any racist actions towards ANYONE. it's a narrative that's been used in mainstream twt/ stan twt because they love to hate people.
@@crowfoot8059 I admit that she should have worded that better, or better yet left that out of her essay. I also hated her name dropping in her QFTC bc it was unnecessary. However, I don't think that any of those incidents constitutes the accusations of her being racist. I can admit that she says stupid shit (like literally someone stop her from posting it essays), but she is not racist
@@crowfoot8059 "I don’t really get to dictate whether that’s racist or not" ???? please read the sentence I replied to, the sentence where you took a line from her essay and pointed at it as racist behavior. Pick a point. It seems to me your blatantly finger pointing racism without any actual ground to stand on because I repeat "I don’t really get to dictate whether that’s racist or not".
@@crowfoot8059 and I answered your question, as you can read again above. Then you proceeded to reply, and I answered again. You, however, labeled my answers as me making excuses for her. I don't know what more I can tell you lol
lana isn’t a role model, she’s not trying to give representation and she doesn’t have to as a musical artist. women creating art don’t have to be perfect role models with happy & uplifting messages. her art doesn’t have to be relatable, it’s as much about storytelling as it is detailing her own life. despite all that her music is incredibly relatable for a variety of reasons. whether you relate broadly to the sexualization of young girls, or more specifically to abusive relationships, childhood trauma, or addiction.
@@strawberrycherrybabyif someone romanticizes her music, that’s on them not her lmao she’s allowed to sing whatever she wants without having to be worried of a 15 yo kid romanticizing it.
@@cece6652so if a musician made songs about hating minority groups you’d be ok with that because “she’s allowed to sing whatever she wants?” Singers should be responsible for their audiences because it is inevitable that they will influence people with their large platforms. If a singer making songs about hate has no fans, it doesn’t matter. But if they have millions of fans like her, it WILL influence them whether they want it or not.
@@Kizamo so by that logic, the knife manufacturer should be held accountable if a person used one of the knives to kill someone? Artists are supposed to censor themselves rather than express their art? Artists aren't responsible for people's education on topics and if no one has taught you (not you specifically, just generally speaking btw) about the themes she's singing about or what is healthy and what is not, that is wholly on your environment, parents, guardians, you name it. We've had kids jumping off roofs because they saw Superman fly in a movie. Now, that's not the filmmaker's fault but solely on the people who neglected to teach their child that they can't fly. Artists sanitizing their art for the sake of their audience to pretend we're living in an okay-world is just silly. Just as claiming that we aren't fully functional individuals who have no agency and can get brainwashed by a movie or in this case, a song, into actions and mindsets we don't even want in the first place. That is rather insulting.
I was raised by a single mother who lived the life described in Lana Del Rey's music. I witnessed 8 different stepfathers and the way my mother was completely blind to the toxic dynamics she was engaging in. This forced me to grow up looking at the world from the perspective of a lost and troubled woman who trusted men way too much. I eventually carried those emotions into adulthood and I truly feel in my heart that I lived her experiences at least emotionally. She and I often talk about this bond we have. To understand Lana Del Rey is to understand the disillusionment of womanhood, and the great lengths they go through to smile pretty for disapproving and emotionally unavailable men. You can try your hardest to bash Lana's lyrical themes, but to do that is to bash the reality of women that came before you. Broken women deserve representation too. You can't erase their stories from history.
You described that beautifully, Lana has given voice to so many women. People who are not familiar with Lana's work do not understand this. Ultraviolence is one of the albums that changed the way I see life. I hope your mother is better now
Thank you. Someone gets it. Her music empowers me, personally. A statement of I may seem soft and feminine, but I have a story to tell, I’ve been singing the same song my whole life and no one has ever stopped to listen..
For me, I think plain and simple - she’s getting older. She is finding herself and what she wants out of life. Seeing as how her look, persona, music has changed over the years you can se a clear trend into it being more simple and easy going - at least that’s how I see it and thinking back to myself. I have been a fan since the very beginning and I’ve changed completely everything about myself and my life many times over. I think it’s only natural. However, I do wish she would stay off social media after receiving criticism or the like if it’s not to say that she accepts and will reflect on it. Everyone will at some point receive criticism and it not the right way to go to fight everything and everyone if you’re not 100 % in the right, and she hasn’t always been. I don’t know, her music still moves me and I love the new and the old as I have for years, but I feel that she should take time off out of any kind of spotlight to truly find who she wants to be and do with her life
agreed, like I grew alongside her. my tastes shifted as hers did. her early music which i still like definitely smacks of melodrama now that i’m older so I think it must to her too
Yes! I started listening to her when I was about 20, a year or so after she first debuted. I’m 29 now, and as I’ve gotten older I’ve found her older music less appealing and mostly listen to Honeymoon onward. Don’t get me wrong, still love her older music, just can’t relate to it as much anymore. That’s why I feel her music and image have changed. It’s not a good look to be in your mid 30s and still act like and sing about being a Lolita. I also agree she just needs to stay off of social media for a while lol.
A lot of what made and still makes Lana's music so intoxicating is the freedom she sings about that a lot of teenaged girls don't have, due to school and other responsibilities. As a brown girl, I could relate to wanting to be free to do what I want because as fellow brown girls know, we aren't given much freedom. Lana sang about having no responsibilities and doing things because she wanted to, something we could only dream of. also I would say she isn't exclusively inspired by the 50s and 60s, but also the 70s, 80s and 90s, especially in albums such as Ultraviolence, NFR and LFL.
That’s true as someone who personally lived with a strict Hispanic mother, it was hard to have your own physical freedom. For example, not being able to go out and just have fun. Lana Del Rey’s music was the only freedom I knew during high school and with her storytelling it was almost as if you envisioned yourself in it.
Thank you!! ❤️❤️❤️ Lana is a true artist who has evolved over the years. I would for this “person” whoever she is to go attack every single male artist who shares their unhappy lives, or she only attack Lana Because she’s a female doing it?
I would also say that she was one of the only ones across male and female performers that was singing about freedom and doing what you want at the time, a lot of the males were just simping over women and money
I agree as someone that has lost her youth to mental illness. I wanted my rebellion phase and careless phase so much yet I never had a chance to behave like a 'normal' teenager and sometimes it makes me sick
Lorde's critique on Lana seems so hilarious now, when she's got her own sad girl post-breakup album called Melodrama. It really shows that she was pretty much an unexperienced teenager at the time and just couldn't relate. I think Lana's music is aging like good wine. And it's not just about abuse, daddies and americana (I'm Russian and it does nothing to me), at its core it's about coming to terms with your sadness first and foremost. Lana's music is soothing for me.
literally same. discovering her music as a 12 yo gay boy in russia drastically changed my life cause i felt that much needed support from across the globe. it didn't make me glamorize depression or anything, but rather show i'm not alone in my suffering. and now, 10 years later, i can appreciate the journey she's gone through with her music and i still feel the connection that many just don't get. she's truly one of the best artists of our era.
Melodrama doesn't try to make abuse seem beautiful. It isn't about an abusive daddy, it's about her boyfriend, the problems they had and why they had to put an end to a relationship that wasn't working anymore. It's way more mature than Born To Die.
It really bothers me when critics/ other celebs have critiqued Lana over years for negatively influencing young girls. I grew up with Lana and LOVED her from the beginning. I am now in my mid 20s and still love her and her music to this day. I can proudly say Lana’s influence has shaped me as a person, but no - I am not a sad girl dating an old rich man… teen girls are not as stupid and easily influenced as people make out. Leave us alone and let us enjoy this fantasy, beauty and flawless music. I really feel for Lana and understand why she is so sensitive to criticism. She is one of the best artists of our generation and I still can’t believe NFR didn’t win a Grammy
Honestly, same. I grew with lana in my teen years, uv is still my fav album. But no, I don't do drugs, smoke or consume alcohol or even date old men. One thing for sure is that I still enjoy her music the way it is.
same,, i feel like her music has always been there for me and her voice feels like home. I’ve been listening to her since I was 13 but i still think old men and drugs are gross! It’s ur parent’s job to make sure certain things don’t have an influence on you, not Lana’s she’s just creating art!
agreed! I never judge her in what she does musically. What she did that unrelated to music never bothers me or I care about it. I just want to see her musical journey and see her grow as an artist. people aren't allowed to grow according to their own time anymore. It feels like suddenly we all are expected to act like full grown adults and everything we do have to be reasonable or rational all the time. that's not how humans are. we make mistakes and it's okay.
I'm in my 30s, but I'm still depressed and relate to Lana's music. Being sad isn't just an outdated fashion statement, it's a mental illness. Some of us never stopped being "sad girls", and sometimes glamorizing my life is the only way I have to cope with depression.
also i remember back in the time when the two of them + florence were considered the holy trinity of indie music, i used to be lowkey obsessed with the 3 of them and their music
I listened to Lana back when I was young, she didn't fuck me up, life fucked me up. She was my comfort, her music resonated with me. Even back when I was 13 I wasn't dumb enough to follow her "example", it was clear to me that she was singing about her experience, her life and her unfortunate situations. Lana is an artist, she isn't a role model or an activist, she is allowed to sing about whatever she wants to whether you deem it appropriate or not. You know, I don't even like her that much anymore but I still think she has the right to share her life the way she wants to. She isn't a perfect person but why should I care? Neither am I and neither are you. Does a painter have to be a perfect person for me to enjoy their paintings? No, of course not.
As a woman of color, i have to say that Lana saved me, her music helped me cope depression when i was a teenager. I didn't admire her for how she looked. Im a black woman, she is white. I live in the caribbean. She lives in USA. what connected me to her was her music, the feelings, the struggle.
@@vlera8447 she’s talking about the stories she tells in her music of struggling women, not Lizzie’s actual struggle. That’s the point of being a song writer or an actress playing characters
@@vlera8447 I will never understand this kind of comment. Struggle can happen through many shapes and forms. For example, Lana was an alcoholic at 14-15 years old. Does this sound like grew up in a healthy environment, where she was looked after?
and it’s funny bc Lana didn’t have a “persona” her entire “persona” was a metaphor. she wasn’t trying to be Jackie Kennedy, how she dressed, what she wrote, how she acted, it was all simply a metaphor
I’m very grateful to Lana for writing the song ‘Carmen’ which reminds me so much of my mother, to be able to write certain people to life and the emotions that come with their experiences isn’t an easy thing to do, the truth is that life can be sad and beautiful and both sides need to be represented in music. It isn’t just an aesthetic.
Carmen is my favorite song of all time! So dreamy, dark and melancholic I guess the song has a special power of evoking memories of people, because it always reminds me of my childhood friend
I understand what your message was and I agree with most of the things you’ve said about her career and her music. But to be honest, we need to stop thinking that artists are responsible for our children…yes her music can influence you but in the end it’s your decision… I’ve been a fan of LDR for a really long time, and I’ve never for once thought that she glamorised sadness or abuse… she talked about it in a way that no one ever did. She said everything we felt, that’s how relatable she was… I love her and her music, I think she’s an unique artist… most female only sing about love and boys and pussy, and when she came, she showed most woman that life is not roses and champanhe and that’s what I freakin love about her, she’s raw…
I see the points in your comment except the cringy "most female" thing. We're called women and most women DON'T sing about "love and boys and pussy". It's not our fault your taste in music is limited. Women are out there killing it in various rock subgenres, women are taking more and more space in modern metal. Women are doing the fcking thing.
@@boldanabrasevic3020 cant wait in a few years for 2014-16 tumbrl and we love it pics to be on IG pop culture profiles!!! cringy but SO nostalgic content lol
I started listening to Lana towards the end of an abusive relationship after being sexually assaulted by my then boyfriend, who was much older than me. Her music made me feel less alone and almost like the song was for me to get lost in. Looking back, it didn't cause me to glamorize or romanticize the trauma I was experiencing. It just made me feel better about it. I can't really explain it. Her music IS relatable if you have gone through similar issues. I'm sure those who have understand what I'm trying to say. Her music is a beautiful escape.
I full heartedly agree. People who can't relate to her songs and are uncomfortable by them like to write the whole thing off as "problematic" to avoid these truths. Lana's music has helped me so much.
I think it made you feel better about it because you felt seen and understood. Like someone in the commets said (and I quote) it's an outlet for those of us who aren't "supposed" to be sad but still are!
Exactly. Telling your story isn't glamorising abuse. I think it's sexism.at work when women speak up about it ppl need to twist it bc the amount of abuse girls/women go through is ridiculous and they don't want to deal with it bc it's easier for them to dismiss us. Misogyny at it's finest. Victim-blaming at it's finest. It's unacceptable. And ridiculous when there's countless movies and games glorifying war, etc, that never get nearly the amount of scrutiny bc it's accepted as the standard....
That's how I felt about Ultraviolence when I was still in my abusive relationship. I felt like it was a song written by an abuse victim that was justifying the abuse out of love, dependence and being mind fucked. It honestly made me feel like I needed to get out before it's too late.
The thing I'm confused by is since when is telling a story about your PERSONAL experiences considered glamourizing. I thought people wanted authenticity and the reality but when you give it to them they don't want it anymore because it gets too real for them. Also, she Isn't responsible for raising teen girls around the globe, their parents are responsible for that
I think it's not fair to use "romanticizing" as a criticism. Anything popular literally will be romanticized because everyone, especially teens want to be cool and unique. So they jump on any new aesthetic and see it as cool. It's impossible to write about anything without having someone romanticize it. It's not the artist's fault.
There is a difference between telling experiences and romanticizing them. You can say “oh x happened. I though y, z, and w about it” without saying “oh x happened. It was y, z, and w.”
@@completely100percenthuman you don't get to decide what other people are allowed to feel. You don't get to tell people how to deal with their situation and how to act/feel about it. That's not how it works.
When you really delve into her discography, there’s songs that are about a lot more than men and I that’s where at least for me I relate to her music, when she’s singing about depression in general such as Black Beauty or Thunder
I strongly disagree with saying that she romanticized abusive relationships, she simply wrote her songs and created her art based on her own experiences as a woman who experienced abuse. A victim's perspective shouldn't be judged like that, it is a life lasting trauma and to say that she was telling her story in the 'wrong' way is to invalidate her experience, as well as stating that there is a 'correct' way to cope with trauma and abuse, it's nonsense. Although I have my own critiques towards her, that is not one of them.
I agree. Pain and victimhood are valid emotions, and shouldn’t be neglected because they are negative. Music can be a channel for letting those emotions out. Personally I felt lana’s song was like a friend who understood my pain. It helped me cope with hard times.
Her music helped me a lot when I was depressed. Every single popular song was about being happy, confident and uplifting yourself but I felt really alienated by them. It made me feel worse that I was depressed because they made me feel ashamed for not being happy. When o started listening to Lana, it's like I found someone like me and It made me feel extremely validated. It taught me that it's ok to be sad and feel hopeless sometimes. It helped me grow from my past.
Lana's music helped me when I was trapped in an abusive relationship. Women/girls who haven't had to experience that pain might romanticize the songs like ultraviolence, but for those of us who have experienced it those songs were the cries of our souls. They're songs about heartbreak. People who shame her for her music are just another case of people shutting down women. Loving a man who loves hurting you is a female experience that shouldn't be silenced, because it's real.
11:15 "Lana can't be relatable to teenagers" she literally saved me from suicide when i was a teenager lmao Lana's music was a warm hug when I was facing my darkest times with depression i had struggles with rly abusive parents that used to even beat me, had to run away to my grandma's house and was living an abusive relationship with a guy (i was 15 and he was 16, he was NO older man) who rly hurt me mentally speaking for 3 years but "saved" me from my parents, and her songs gave me strength to keep enduring that until i was able to get free. i used to hate myself and when "Honeymoon" came out the song "God knows I tried" was like my hymn to not give up even with everything messed up in my life.
i think she forgot some people have/had really awful experiences as teenagers. not all of us were lucky enough to be protected, i can see myself through lana's music and I'll be forever grateful for her art
@@nicoalbarn i rly thought there were ppl like me and i'm so glad to see i was right! i hope ur doing better now, but we're forever grateful for her art and music
that's so sad to hear. lanas music also helped me for years and I can for sure say I wouldn't be here today if there wasn't her music. I really hope you're in a better place now💕
I was in a abusive relationship too with a same age guy and man Lana she literally helped me to go through those times so I could finally get out of that shit
Literally in this vid she’s just admitting to her own ignorance... if all u get out of Lana is that she “wrongly” basks in her sadness even tho she sings abt genuine topics to be sad about then that’s on you. Also she implies in this vid that poor women/ woc don’t experience abuse and can’t relate to Lana??? I literally hate this video
The hyper fixation on her lyrics and references and calling them out as ‘problematic’ and ‘influencing young girls’ not only shows how women in music, media in general, can’t make a single flaw when so many male artists are constantly referencing things like rape, assault, controlling women ect and in a much more explicit, graphic way then LDR did when talking about violence, but also, shows how we still see teenage girls as these impressionable mindless creatures. Calling her persona ‘shattered’ and saying she is failing to be mysterious like Prince shows that her persona is not fake because she is a person and is growing and changing with time and she is not ripping off other artists who crave this specific persona. Also her ‘mum like’ media presence ppl criticise and her filters isn’t ‘corny’ it’s her being herself and not changing and adapting to fit in with younger generations, being authentic like everyone is ASKING FOR!
exactly. Not to mention that Lana has no responsibility to sensor herself for young teen audiences. She's not a disney or nickelodeon star. She's a star in general, she didn't put herself out there to be a role model for impressionable young people, so that criticism of all artists needs to stop. Let them be who they are without worrying it'll reflect badly on your kids. If you don't want your impressionable teens consuming media about this then watch what they do, talk with them about how the things she sings about aren't right in real life.
Let's not act like having relationships with older men, drug abuse and self-ham aren't relatable, or only to a select few. Teenage/young women are going through these things throughout all classes and layers of society. Not everything is either a light or dark / bad or good experience. You can have mixed feelings about abuse or self-destructive behaviour naturally and Lana's music and stories embody that. Also, I don't think it's fair to make Lana responsible for romanticising those things, because we do it ourselves in our daily life anyway because when we're living those experiences we often don't notice how harmful or destructive they are. Also, NFR and Lana's use of the American flag to me seems like a critique on Americana, the American Dream and its ideology and politics. I think it's quite counterproductive to attempt to sanitise all music/art/media from anything that could be deemed offensive, as these are real problems/sentiments/experiences that live in society and within individuals whether they know/want it or not. It's like we're obsessed with becoming 'pure' and faultless beings.
I agree with almost everything here, her music is relatable and idk how anyone can be aware how much men lust after teens and not realize that plenty of teen girls end up having experiences with older men... But I think Lana's use of American symbols is simply the aesthetic she's going for, I've never noticed any evidence that she was being critical of American culture.
@@avsusky I’m from Europe so perhaps I have different perspective, idk. Just that her American references sometimes seem subversive to me, as she always contrasts the American dream against all these elements of destruction. But maybe I’m overestimating her lol.
@@hannahc7698 yeah she does sound a bit like there's a level of irony in that Americana aesthetic exactly because of this association of ideal and decaying elements
People who now hate lana for being herself instead of being a persona they created in their mind never liked her in the first place. Also her music, since NFR, has been phenomenal and there's a beauty to her becoming more and more personal.
I can’t help but compare her a little bit to Alex turner’s personas. Like I can deff see some similarities between how they rose to fame in the US. The only thing is Alex is still kind of shrouded in mystery due to his lack of a social media presence. I think he kept the mystery alive while she shattered the illusion.
I totally see what you mean! Alex kind of looks unattainable whereas Lana seems now more tangible or human-like. And they fill the sad boy and sad girl spectrum, right? Also, didn’t they work together in the studio? I think Alex helped her with her new album or something like that but I’m not entirely sure...
Super true i used to wish Alex had a social media presence when i was a super fan and starving for content but now i somewhat understood his feelings about social media and present culture from tbhc album i get it why he'd like to stay out of it and it's probably for the best.
@@fibromiteready2fight809 Yeah. I now realize it was coming from a place of self-hate since I enjoyed some of the things I hated on other girls for openly liking. I'm just glad I grew out of that and now have the strength to be myself.
@@Lunella08 Yayyy for growth! I remember I was a teen and would feel edgy for hating certain music and artist but now im like fuck it love whoever you want. The number 1 thing i found funny is people like to hate on popular stuff because they think they are unique and against the grain......but hating on things because they are popular is the same thing. You are also a sheep jumping on a band wagon because its popular to hate that thing. For example BTS for me, people like to shit on them but most of them have heard 1 maybe 2 songs and then think they know everything and will talk shit because everyone else is also talking shit. I feel like once you do research on a subject THEN you can critique it all you want, if not you are also doing what everyone else does, you arent special and you arent cool.
I honestly can't see a problem with Lana. I see a problem with social media that dragged her throughthe mud for having an opinion. She is an artist creating art. She never appeared as a person who wanted to be a role model but rather as a person creating an utopia for herself. And also I don't agree that she is problematic. Again she is not a role model she is an artist creating movie like songs based on her experience - nothing wrong with that.
Would like to add that I was also a teenager that liked her songs and I wanted to relate to her at one point. But even though a child I still had a head on my shoulders and realized that I am better off not relating. She was never a role mother for me it's her Americana vibe that drew me in bc I am an Eastern European and America just started to rise on the market of my country at that time.
I don’t get the hate she gets. Billie eilish talks about suicide in her music so much more and doesn’t get dragged for it. “I wanna end, I wanna end me, I wanna end me” in her lyrics. The hypocrisy
I feel like there are several reasons people would give her hate, which were all mentioned in the video and that's what the more recent hate has been about. Overall, from statements she puts out/things she says it just seems like she's still behind the general direction of growth in society, though she does seem to have grown some. It's true that Billie Eilish sings about her mental health struggles a lot, but she somehow doesn't seem to glamorize imo. And she was actually a teenage girl when she started
probably because Billie Eilish is more edgy about it and gives you the feeling she isn't all that serious about it, or that she's somehow distanced emotionally and therefore cool - young people say things like FML (fuck my life) and "I wanna kill myself" all the time yet they don't actually mean that - while Lana was or at least seemed more serious about her feelings? idk, just my guess, I'm under impression that people don't like sensitive, vulnerable women who just share their feelings like that and tell it like it is because this is what a typical woman is like, they prefer the ones who at least try to act tough and put the mask on, or who detach themselves emotionally
the difference is there is nothing ¨glamorous¨ or ¨romantic¨ about the song bury a friend rather it frames the suicide reference in a scary manner. lana has a bad habit of framing suicide, abusive relationships, and drug abuse as a key aspect of her glam sad girl aesthetic thus making it something young people might unfortunately romanticize
@@joeyrivers8845 I don't think young people would romanticise those things BECAUSE of Lana, rather, they already do it themselves and therefore relate to Lana who sings about feelings they're familiar with
Let's not forget the obsession/glamorization of eating disorders on Tumblr in the early 2010s. The only women cycling through Tumblr at the time were Lana del Rey, Daughterofhungryghosts, and Marina in her heartbreaker era... Three beautiful thin white women. I remember avoiding lunch and the sun at 14 to achieve this aesthetic. & This was on top of the drug use, self-harm push you brought up. Such a dangerous time to be a teen girl!
Yes! I was actually surprised that this wasn't brought up when discussing why it's so hard being a teenage girl, and what it was like being a teenage girl on the internet (specifically Tumblr) in the early 2010s. I feel like this toxic diet culture that promoted a lot of pro-ED behaviour was pretty closely intertwined with a lot of the Sad Girl aesthetics.
@@hyacinthannah There was so much layered onto the problems of 2010s Tumblr and its effect on teenagers, she did well on bringing every other issue up i think! But agreed 100%, Tumblr was extremely pro-ED. It was a scary time, i remember people analyzing Cassie from Skins eating habits and replicating her behavior and it was SO cool at the time, learning how she tricked people into thinking she ate her food & all. Though, I dont think we can blame women like Lana for this. she was expressing herself and it just so happen to be a hit online. Media just kept pushing out women with the similar messages onto teen girls.
I think art is not supposedly to make everyone happy. It’s supposed to to make you *feel* emotions, not only happiness. It shouldn’t be always giving way to positive outcomes alone.
@@icystorm9968 that's not how art works. People are free to criticise, but the criticisation isn't the end all be all... That's what I've been told in art school, anyway. You can't tell people not to talk about her public work even if you think they should mind their business, especially if it's a fan doing the criticising since it's not just random haters. Would the same apply to a film like Birth of a Nation? Lol.
Lana never said she's a role model to anyone. People have a different way of coping with trauma/abuse and she just happens to express hers through her art (music). You can't seriously expect every person to express their 'darker' feelings the same way. She's not afraid to express herself. Seriously, imagine how boring all the art would be if the artists constantly had to worry about sending the wrong image of themselves 🙄
The song girls is auto biographical. All the stuff about drugs and dating older abusive men is true. She has like several years of sobriety now and got sober at like 19 or 20 and had very troubled teen years. Yeah this stuff is problematic but like people legitimately have these experiences.
There is a different between expressing your feelings/experiences and romanticizing/glamorizing certain things.I think how you portray something is more important than what you portray.I think she is romanticizing "daddy" fantasy a lot.Many of her fans fetishizes Lolita immensely.Don't get me wrong I agree that if she were a male,she would get less criticism.But it doesn't change what I said.I didn't listen to her latest album (I heard 2-3 songs) but her old songs make me kinda uncomfortable.Especially when I see fan videos where an underage girl and old man are portrayed like it's an "aesthetic".
I think that lana is just tired of everything, She doesn’t promote her music or do anything that a celebrity would normally do. Her lyrics are now full of frustration and way more personal. Her music is becoming less cinematic. I think that unfortunately she will stop making music soon. She is probably just tired of her life now
I also think that her persona is like a more glamorous version of herself. If you are a real fan you know that she went through a lot of stuff in her life. Her music is beautiful therefore her lyrics began to be seen as glamorous
Ok but her mental health is way better now of her own admission and she's literally releasing music so frequently. Why did you have to say that she's probably tired of her own life now?
She’s the only singer that I feel sees into my soul. She has saved my life too many times to count. For people to assume she is romanticizing the things she’s singing about, severely overlooks the importance of her music. She sings about her life and in doing so, she has helped so many people, including me
Okay I have seen so many comments and I have reached my limit . A singer may do good for one community while doing harm to another . Lana did glamorize abuse to people who haven’t been in abusive it toxic relationships she make it seem like it this high fashion fever dream of passion shit when it’s not
I'm 66 currently. I have been fortunate to have lived through several eras of music.. My tastes haven't changed much and I'm still the same Bowie fan I was at 18. The constant dissection of artists in music is starting to bother me. I had never heard any of Lana's songs until a month or so ago. By accident I came across Summ Sadness and didn't look back. She is unique. She is the only artist I've come across that can create a "vibe", or actually put you into a song. That for me is a true talent. That's all I need. No need for over analyzing but that's my opinion.
@@GrellxSebby1012 it was a passage in her 1992 book Sex. because the book is semi fiction and semi autobiographical the reality of the situation is unclear
that era of tumblr mina talked about really was so detrimental. in addition to those images she referenced (medicine bottles, bruises, tattooes, cigarettes, etc.), I used to see a lot of images of self-harm scars and that as a part of the sad/emo girl aesthetic led me to actually self-harm for many years. yeesh.
@@enyavissepo last time I checked tumblr (at least 1 year ago) I noticed that images like that are no longer available. I wonder how different things would have been for me (for us) if tumblr never allowed those images on the site in the first place!
@@lolzlolzlolzlolzlol1 i often think that too, i definitely would not have self harmed bc i now realize the glamorization of self harming clouded for me the severity of the act, im now at a place where i cant even believe i did such a thing but im aware that tumblr had a big part in my perception of it
She writes about her experiences that’s why her music has changed so much recently before fame she sang a lot about drinking and partying bc she was experiencing it now she is sober now and her music has toned down a lot
i met lana when i was 8 years old when the summertime sadness remix was played on the radio, i didn't become a fan until i was 13 when i was able to search for her music by myself and to this day (16 years old) I haven't identified with any of her songs, I haven't had any experience like hers, but she's still my favorite singer and I can't imagine life without her music You don't always have to relate to something to feel close to it.
i agree with you! i’m 15 and lana is my favorite artist. do i relate to any of her songs? not really. however,she makes me feel things that other music just can’t
She expressly and deliberately went against the trends of being the empowered girl boss etc...and it made her stand out. Id like to point out though. Its a little ironic that some artists who sing about the strong independent women are the ones who actually struggle with drugs and alcoholism. Like demi lovato and britney spears. These artists are victims of the industry and their whole persona were manufactured to fit the current feminist trend. Its sort of a deceptive message when they push this feminist narrative, while criticizing another artist who came out with a fantasy vulnerability. Thats why i think she came out with that statement in the first place. All of these are marketing strategies and none of them are authentic. They all understand what you need to do to survive
Couldn't agree more. It's so nice to see comments actually ackowledging what she was really trying to say, as opposed to pointing out everything wrong with it, and letting those issues drown out the real message.
I have been trying to tell this to people since ages 😂😂😂 Also, why should she get called out for liking old men when that's not what she does in her current real life. Her older songs were about the life she once lived. She is a strong woman who overcame alcohol addiction. The so called good girl pop stars have had way more problems in real life
It's sad that Britney sings about power while she is basically a slave for her father, label, music industry. Also demi did say that when they wrote/sung confident they weren't feeling confident. It's all about image and fake love
I think one thing about Lana's music that I love is how she talks about real issues. Abuse, drugs, hopelessness, depression, love and sex are all actual things, and while most of us cannot, and hopefully will never be able to, relate to all her songs, it makes her seem like a real person, despite the persona. I absolutely love pop stars like Dua Lipa, Katy Perry and Doja Cat at the moment, but the constant release of "I'm so happy and so in love" or "I'm talking really vaguely about a slightly messy break up" songs feel so far away from realism at times. I think that's why girls were so willing to embrace Lana's music and style; we were finally 'allowed' to feel the other half of the emotions that regular pop told us we shouldn't.
The whole idea of women needing to be mystique to be popular is just deep-rooted misogyny. Why does expressing her opinion suddenly make her less mysterious? Why do people want Lana to act as an object and say nothing? Why can't people just accept she is a person and that she has no responsibility to do anything for anyone other than herself?
I partly agree with you although I feel like this tends to an extreme sometimes. Sure, Lana's social media presence is quite problematic and she can be irresponsible/ controversial when trying to defend herself, but still, as an artist her role isn't to protect her audience and to be a role model. She never asked tumblr sad teenage girls to romanticize her abuse and can't control the way people are going to interpret her words. Sure, she fuels their aesthetic but at the end of the day she's not responsible for them. What happened to freedom of speech? It's not like we're going to censor/ ban her songs or prevent young women from listening to them! Also, I don't think they take her content literally and they're not that influenceable (at least I'm not...) : sure they enjoy her music and consider it a form of escapism but Lana isn't encouraging them to date men old enough to be their father, she's just writing about her own life and we should just let her.
I remember Lorde got so much shit back in the day for talking about other artists, I remember people criticising her looks which was pretty disgusting. Now suddenly everyone misses her lmao
Music is art and a form of expression. She can write and sing about whatever the hell she likes. It's who she is. Imagine how dull the world of music would be if you could only write politically correct lyrics for the fear of upsetting someone or influencing teenagers in the wrong way. She sings about what she feels, what is so wrong about that?
@@radiogugu9137 Yes but it is awfully suspicious when we are extremely critical of a female artist and not caring at all about what male artist do. At least that's how I percieve it.
Yeah I see your point, but people will still have their opinion. They will not like the effect she could have, regardless, that should never be a reason to not make music.
it's absolutely heartbreaking to see what controversies lana has landed herself in recently. i adore her and her music, but it's very hard to defend her these days. love her music tho, born to die, ultraviolence and nfr are iconic and so is she
I have distain for the viewpoint that just because something is problematic in your opinion, or that you get triggered by something, that that should stop people from creating art.
I appreciate your take that “persona” isn’t synonymous with lack of authenticity, I haven’t heard anyone say that before and I have to say I agree, even though that is the popular connotation the word has. Though- and I must preface this by saying that I’m not a Lana Stan by any means- I kind of take Lana’s word for it that it wasn’t a persona. In fact, it’s probably the only thing she’s ever said that I agree with. Like, she just had style. And sure, there were motifs in her music as with many artists, but when does style and having recurring themes cross over into being a persona? I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that this vintage-obsessed, submissive, cig smoking Sad Girl with a working class fascination was who she truly was at that time- like, I guess I just don’t see any evidence that that’s anything besides who she really was, for better or worse
Fun Fact : Lizzy called herself "Lana Del Rey" bc of the actress Lana Turner and "Rey" bc of Ford Del Rey she thought it was more authentic than Lizzy Grant
The most exemplary thing about lana's songwriting is the world building & narrative nature of it. This genius woman tells stories through her songs & doesn't make vapid, loose, shear pop songs for radio airplay. Lana Del Rey is the greatest living songwriter, an auteur of the millennial generation
13:41 she's no longer displaying it with a sense of pride. nfr was an album that mocked, although "mocked" is a harsher word for it, modern america. the entire album she is speaking about how the american dream is not an accurate representation of how life in the U.S truly is, which is why she named the album after a painter who drew america to be prettier than it actually was.
um Norman Rockwell had controversial paintings that exposed the contradiction between American values vs American reality. It wasn't all painting America prettier than it was.
I only started listening to her at age 20 (not a Sad Girl, but Depressed Adult); and the next year, Lust for Life dropped. I spent that summer in LA, and being able to see her posters on the corner was fantastic! Hear me: Lana may not be a feminist in the popular sense (which branch of feminism is "authentic" then?), but some of her critics are definitely misogynists. A lot of her criticisms should be directed towards wider structural, societal issues like beauty standards, work-place sexual abuse and so on, instead of at her. Also, her opinion that she had no place in feminism might only refer to a branch of feminism heavily appropriated by neoliberal capitalism, you know, the #girlboss type that mainstream female artists don on in one way or another. That isn't actually feminism either, cuz it doesn't empower the vast majority of women, only the few on top. Come to think abt it, Lana's femininity, sentimentality, and non-aggressive sexuality all attracted criticism; I guess she really irked some misogynists huh. So her statement shouldn't be dragged too much. Twitter can be such a toxic place sometimes
That’s exactly what she meant with the statement, (pertaining to girl boss thing) but somehow no one saw that that’s what she meant and it all went nuts 😣
Also, why does she have to be a feminist? Because she is a female? Do we really need to be put in little boxes and little categories all the time? She is a human being talking about human emotions, dark or not. If you try to impose a guideline in the creative act that respects all the little boxes that people imagine, then art is lost.
@@andreeabucur4935 feminism isn't a little box, it's literally a worldwide movement that exists because women keep being discriminated against, abused and killed just because they're women. If given all that you still choose to not align yourself with feminism, don't be surprised people think you're a nonce
@@poisonbiscuits I know what feminism is and I am a feminist. But guess what? Not everybody has to be a feminist. Maybe they align themselves with the core values and they don't want to be called like that. I am not here to trigger. I JUST THINK art it's not to be messed with and also we don't always have to feel separated and be put in categories. That was the point. I don't even like her music so I'm not here to defend her. It's just that I don't get it why does she have to proclaime herself to be something or other - she should be able to say that she is herself and that she sings about her feelings, worm and fuzzy or not. In the grand scheme of things, we should all be ONE, and we should be able to be together and accept our differences, and from that perspective, everything that is separating us, and turning us against eachother seems like a little box (and I am not talking about feminism in particular but about the tendency to say we belong to this or that and everything that is outside is not ok). 🤗
Omg yes the sad girl thing could be so harmful like how everyone idolized characters like Effy and Cassie from skins (which I feel like go hand in hand with Lana del ray and the general tumblr sad girl aesthetic) it was just so bad and harmful
@@Emma-zz2vo the whole 60s marketing cigs to women shtick doesn't help. (nicotine curbs appetite so big tobacco went in hard for women who wanted to be/stay skinny)
@@littlegreenclementine I never knew that. So sad that marketing strategies play off of women's insecurities. The damage it causes, and all for what? to sell more products ;(
@@lovedives yes I remember this. I actually got really sucked into the thinspo movement, if I were to go back to my 'likes' from around that time they would all be of tiny delicate looking girls with thigh gaps. Teens are so impressionable, I mean I probably still carry with me some of those diet tips. It was actually a really dark part of the internet now that I think about it.
marina is a great example of persona creation and disassembly. think of electra heart, the housewife persona. she dismantled that very successfully and moved on.
She doesn’t sing about hopelessness lol that song ends with “but I have it. Yea I have it” she has hope she is sooo positive and happy. She simply expressed the darker sides of her life that we all experience in a dramatic way.
The Sylvia Plath part is something I was drawn to before I knew of LDR or understood poetry. I think she is comparing and contrasting between her two inner selves. Like her lyrics that pop up “war in my mind” the duality experienced by everyone.But specifically her as a woman who is viewed as unstable or “the sad girl” influencer for glamorizing things that were already glamorized long before her so why does she have to take so much heat/blame? Causing her to maybe feels it’s difficult for her to have hope. Maybe because she doesn’t want to let herself down again or maybe because she knows showing hopefulness and happiness will (like it did) cause her to be picked apart. As if she wasn’t allowed to evolve through the 10 years since she hit most mainstream music (correct if wrong) the same way Taylor Swift evolved. Humans (myself included) create the persona I think more than the artist because we need something to attach the artist to that makes sense to us or makes us comfortable and when the artist changes as one does regardless of their talents/trade, the fans become confused and feel a sense of betrayal. However it seems to settle down as the artist does interviews explaining their change in style or whatever change it is. The artist may gain or lose fans here and there. So I think again Sylvia Plath is known for committing suicide in her oven and the multiple attempts prior to that. But that IS NOT SYLVIA PLATH that is the archetype society created about her. Now I think Lana relates to that because lana’s music isn’t necessarily always a reflection of who she is. I mean Billie Eilish has that song about killing her lover and having a stomach ache after and explains her and her brother “like to makeup things and pretend wonder, I always had really bad stomach aches” (bad paraphrasing read in article) so if we were to judge Billie from that ONE SONG we’d think she’s a murderer! Yet we know it is not a representation of who she is. The truth is none of us know who any of these artists are, unless you’re close with them and have a relationship to them outside of their art or what they show to the world.
Dude mina’s communication skills are really up there, her pitch tempo and articulation is perfect and she explains everything perfectly wtf my spoken assignment dream lolz
I think some people dont actually realize that she is not just an artist who portraits depressed, melancholic women and such. Her music is deeply meaningfull and she is so hardworking, talented thus should be appreciated.
Not really. "Del Rey" it's just a last name but in Spanish we add "del or de" sometimes to last names but it doesn't have a translation. If that makes any sense I don't really know how to explain it lol
The thing about lanas music is also that shes so good at expressing her hurt in such a beautiful way that even though you dont have to have had the same thing happen to you, you can still relate. I remember I started listening to her a lot when i was avout 13/14 goinn throught some heavy shit alongside puberty and her music healed me so much because i felt it was okay to cry and feel bad and just kind of had a place to express it
Part of art and being an artist is to freely express yourself, and to shame Lana for her music -her so called “glamorization of abuse” is just b.s. Hurt, pain, grief, unhappiness in relationships, pseudo-happiness from manipulation within those relationships, and a whole slew of other tough things in love and life are all real-life experiences that we all go through. Domestic abuse happens, and yes, sometimes you think it’s love. And it is perfectly okay to admit that. Lana just happens to have the talent of transposing these tough experiences into song. And even with this said, most people’s analysis of Lana is so surface level and basic-minded. Especially in an era where mental health is at the forefront of everyone’s conscience...how f’ed up is it, and how hypocritical is it, that Lana gets hung dry for the unhappiness she has experienced, that she so bravely shares with the world through her music?
Not particularly related to the vid but re: the $600 dress, a lot of brands don’t just gift their clothes to celebs, the brands pay them to wear them. Usually big bucks if it’s for a red carpet too. Lana has her questionable moments to say the least lol but I also like that she wore a dress from the mall & was open abt it.
the nostalgia with the old tumblr screenshots omg also the struggles of teenage years is on point (especially when the realization of omnipresent patriarchy hit me like a brick back then)
Wow the comments are crazy in here. I'm a Lana stan and I do relate to her music since I was a sugar baby between 19-24 and I have dealt with a lot of abuse. With that said, I did enjoy this critique even if I don't agree everything in it. I'm glad you brought up that Lolita from the hood comment though. As a woman of color who grew up in the hood where I had to dodge predatory grown men at 11 with no protection, that comment bothered me. Especially since Lana grew up rich, went to boarding school and I have seen too many white girls with that background in my real life who used to fetishize "hood life."
I agree. I lived with a roommate who was a high end call girl and she was a sugar baby too with glamorous friends who were all in that circle. They always had that Lana del Rey thing going on and I knew of her from them.
A persona seems like a really healthy way to create a boundary between yourself as an artist and a real person.
Smart.
Exactlyyyyyy!!!! I wish people understood this more. It can be a good thing! I'm sure even artists who don't have an explicit persona make efforts to differentiate their real selves from their on stage counterpart, to remember when they're being an artist trying to sell their work and perform vs when they're being a real human being with friends and family and a private life to protect. It can serve as a way to make them see their performing and recording music as what it is: a job and a responsibility
🙌🙌🙌
I think to some degree everyone that lives in a society had to build up a persona for the sake of interaction and norms, the problem arises when you end up indetifying with it and ms.Lana seems to be struggling in that regard. It is merely a part of you, not the whole of you.
@@rosecoloredbby l
I think the vintage look she has is more attainable because it’s not glamorous. Dita von tease feels VERY hyper glam and hyper vintage, most of the time that aesthetic isn’t something most people can have. lanas vintage style is much more dressed down. It’s more pieces that a regular middle class teenager (lana is not middle class I’m aware of her family’s wealth) could find at target, the thrift store, or a family members closet. I think that is why her specific style and persona took off within the fashion sphere.
love this take. i've dressed like that most of my life, "vintage-adjacent" haha
She literally went to the Grammy's wearing a mall bought dress , its part of her image
@@warmgreytenpercent vaguely vintage style is really great honestly
Well her style of vintage is like ‘white trash’, not a dig by the way as I grew up working class myself. But the idea is that of a trailer park girl from the 60s like Celia from ‘the help’ or like Marilyn monroe before she escaped to Hollywood.
i think her style looks like 1950-60s white middle class America through rose colored lenses. Like those illustrations of perfect nuclear families with a mix of pin up girl and even a little bit like sexy crackhead who just puked but somehow looks good
As a teenage girl that has become obsessed with Lana's music in the past few years, I think the thing I like so much about it is that it isn't relatable, and so it feels like escapism. Listening to Lana's music is like watching a movie or reading a book.
Agree and i grew up with Lana's music from my parents
This is ittt!!!! It truly feels like just escaping into another world
yes
lol for me was the other way, when i was living that trashy life that she always sings about, i was obssesed with her. i even thought Ultraviolence was going to be my wedding song. Now that im so far for it, i just saw it plain pathetic and stupid of her to glorify bullshit tbh.
Exactly!!
As a black teenage girl, I was so relieved to have found an artist to whom I could relate; no need for a physical resemblance. It wasn't, necessarily, the allusions to abuse or addiction or whatnot but rather the way she translated her life into an art that made her experiences worthwhile and, thus, beautiful. Her _life_ is an art; a canvas onto which she paints many brushstrokes-some vibrant and bold and controversial while others are soft and simple and conventional; but it is altogether a beautiful conglomerate of persona and personality-herself.
Lana was and is being whoever she may be; she's on her own path, growing as she learns-as we all must. Criticism deserves something to criticize, and she seems unafraid of being put under its lens. Never a thing worthwhile was left uncontemplated. Never a great work of art left unscrutinized. Thus always making the one brave enough to make it immortalized. 🕊
Same
That’s beautiful.
I was never into Lana but this is the exact place the music I listen to holds In my heart. You have very important words here.
❤
On the subject of Sad Girls, I definitely agree more with Mitski when she said "I used to rebel by destroying myself, but realized thats awfully convenient for the world. for some of us our best revolt is self-preservation."
Btw where did you get that shirt? It's rlly cute
I relate so hard to this ^
thats a fucking amazing quote
Where these quote from?!!
@@yoyodz6712 Mitski tweeted it a few years ago
Mitski is truly one of the greatest minds of our generation
I think people sometimes forget one simple but yet important thing. People CHANGE. She’s been in the music industry a whole decade!! It’s not 100% about a persona problem but mostly about GROWING.
She also coworked with so many people that would have influenced her work
...or not growing... I don’t think she responds to any kind of criticism, even from her fans, very well. It kinda seems like she sees any kind of criticism as a personal attack and so do her fans
@wayamaya well I get that she might be getting tired of criticism but sorry - she’s a public figure therefore she’ll always get criticism. The problem is that she just can’t seem to differentiate between valid criticism (for example her ignoring Covid guidelines with that stupid glitter net) and unnecessary attacks. To her apparently all criticism is an attack. And ignoring valid critique shows very little self reflection
@wayamaya she responded that the mask had some plastic sewn inside but it’s clearly visible on pictures that that was not the case. (She could’ve just said sorry, I should’ve been more careful but no she made up some lie). When fans were criticizing her Chemtrails cover she jumped into the defense by saying that it *does* feature poc and that her ,best friends and boyfriends are rappers‘ (implying that she’s friends with black people) which made a lot of people mad because it’s basically the ,I’m not racist, see, I have black friends‘ argument. And people weren’t even mad about her ,not showing enough poc‘ - they just really didn’t like the very low quality and badly edited IPhone 5 picture as an album cover. And from an art analysis point (I have literally written an essay about that picture) it would’ve been so easy to make it look better and of a little more quality by changing the lighting, not using a black and white filter, by putting her a little bit more in the focus, by choosing a little higher view point etc... when she was criticized for almost making excuses for tr*mp for inciting the January 6th riot by saying ,I don’t think he meant to incite a riot‘ she went on a minute long rant about how her words are always taken out of context and how everyone is just so unfair when it’s literally so so soooo easy to just hop on your live and say ,her guys I don’t like Tr*mp and riots are bad‘
@wayamaya I do agree that she’s often been needlessly attacked for her lyrics. I also don’t think (or rather I hope she doesn’t) she supports tr*mp but for some reasons she’s really struggling to just find the words tu put it out there idk... and the thing with Lanas covers: she has such a great and unique aesthetic. Especially her earlier music videos are pure art and just really get to you. It just seems to me and many others fans that she completely stopped putting any effort into creating art for her exceptional music... I have all her vinyls but I will never buy Cotcc because it just looks so shitty compared to her other albums... maybe she’s trying to piss people off but it’s really sad that the art has to suffer for it because let’s be real a 2 year old selfie with some filters and PicsArt fonts slapped on it hardly does her songs justice :/ it’s just so sad to see her really iconic looks and unique styles not being shown anymore cause I really loved her vintage vibes glamour aesthetic
Theres something about a woman dying beautiful and young and therefore never ageing that society is so obsessed with. like they’ve been crystallised
It reminds how in the19th century suicide of beautiful young men was romanticized, it's weird
Sure, we're obsessed with beauty, and youth. Especially when it comes to women. But society at large is also just weary of sickness and growing old, so there's an "allure" to the idea of achieving great things and dying right then and there, forever remembered in your prime. For women it does have more to do with looks, but the "live fast, die young, never grow old" also worked on figures like James Deen or Paul Walker.. It's about the talent and potential that these people displayed, they didn't just die young, they died young AND on the top of their game... The 27 club, etc. The sense of loss is amplified by people wondering what else they could've accomplished had they not been stolen away so fast, I think.
E.g Marilyn Monroe and Sharon Tate
@@mychannel-rt2gn And Princess Diana.
@@katymaloney I think that's certainly true in the modern age, but I think for women it's got a longer history. Dying young and beautiful has been romanticized for centuries. For men, their prime comes later. There's something about being a leader and experienced and powerful, like Julius Ceasar. But for women, their prime has always been the young maiden and it hasn't changed.
From Lady Jane Grey, to Ophelia, to Marilyn Monroe. So much art surrounds that idea. The painting 'The Execution of Lady Jane Grey' was and is so famous because it captures the innocence and youth and purity that society has always been to obsessed with. The fact that she was 17 and completely innocent and had to be guided to the block without even knowing what she was dying for. It's why imo, her death has a famous painting and story, but Mary of Scots who died at 44, does not.
It's a recurring theme. Something about the innocence of dying a maiden.
Gonna get some hate, but I just have to say… men can sing about fckin 20 girls at a time getting them pregnant and leaving/ drinking and driving/ extreme drug abuse yet it’s played on the radio and not criticized anywhere near as hard as women’s music for being dark & fcked up lol
I agree. I feel like the struggle is more heavy for female artists. Many male artists use derogatory language and sing problematic stuff but somehow they get away with it. When it comes to female artists people are so eager to point out their flaws and defects.
Yeah..I think it’s a classic example of sexism being harmful not only to women but to men as well. Women = fragile vulnerable and impressionable, need to be protected, whereas boys/young men are seen as not needing protection, and often get harmed bc of it. That being said I side with an artists’ right to free expression regardless of how young people may interpret it
Yes the fact that when men talk about “dark subjects” they’re the perpetrator but when we talk about them we’re speaking as the victim and STILL get more criticism than them. Like when sza came out with ctrl and men got mad at her for making “side chick music” when they will talk about the same thing from the other perspective in a joking manner and its okay. Lana is showing the perspective of young girls who are groomed/preyed upon. People just don’t like hearing the victims perspective
Literally, there are old music videos about the act of rape (Falco, Jeanny) and really freak music bands that explore concepts of brutality (like, I don’t know, Rammstein, I guess) but that doesn’t matter. It’s a stage persona. It’s like acting and Lana definitely shows that her stage persona is carefully constructed. That’s what makes every artist succeed - you don’t really talk about yourself, but you’re your “own creation” (and then you have a whole crew that is influencing your image). I think teenagers know much more about this nowadays, than older people and they rarely take things seriously
@@mollymeyer8443 many people who make that point dont go after lana. Although i do think ppl that blindly hate on female rappers are just salty virgins a lot of the time.
i love how the tumblr teens are now adults and talk about the communities there
Is that what’s going on? I love it
it makes me so happy, I feel seen
@Anna thank you
It's like hearing about veteran stories
In ten years we're gonna start posting about our experiences during November 5th and the 6 months of chaos that came after it
Other thing about teenage girls : Not allowed to like anything, or do anything.
Honestly tho.
fr, everything that girls like is bullied and seen as dumb stuff.
Fr bruh
All I said was that I like 1 bts song and suddenly the whole world is after me 😭
Ikr? I’m not a teenager anymore, but I see it so often that everything teenage girls like is publicly seen as being bad and teenage girls are always shamed for liking stuff or being excited about something.
true it still exists
In regards to Lana's initial popularity, I think she brought in a way to be young, sexual, and emotional without having to balance it out with some kind of moral purity or strong, take-no-shit persona in the way that Britney, Madonna, and other predecessors conveyed sexuality in music. Lana's music said that one could be sexual, naive, and destructive and not feel the need to apologize or compensate for it, which was weirdly liberating for the time (at least for me). It kinda flipped the emotional love-sick girl trope on its head and turned it into something cool and sexy (and problematic).
I agree with this. I personally was 18-20 when born to die came out and it was great going through my existential crisis with her music even though it was and is definitely problematic.
“I fucked my way up to the top, this is my show” yes, she is unapologetically who she is, that’s why I adore her music for sure! She talks about her emotions in a language I understand better than anything! She’s truly a poet, in the way Bob Dylan is. I’ve always thought poetry is the perfect balance between the physical & the spiritual- combined perfectly. Poetry is the truth, life is stranger than fiction!
THANK YOU
Perfectly put. The naivety from Britney and others really comes off like ‘male gaze’ version of naivety. While lana’s was more like ‘16 year old girl from the 60s wears her moms makeup for the first time on a date and thinks she looks 28’
I also think that what she meant by the 'no place in feminism for me' post: not that she's pretty and white, but that she's explicitly vulnerable and doesn't pretend to be in charge of anything. It was worded poorly, but to me that's such a huge aspect of her 'brand'!
I always saw her music as storytelling. She sang from the perspective of complex, flawed, and interesting characters in complex, flawed, interesting situations. I also always loved her music videos. The aesthetic, her style, the settings, and the cinematic videography-they were like watching a movie.
people love saying "omg! fake depressed 14 year olds ha ha" but when i was actually depressed at 13, i couldn't get the help i needed because no one believed me. this 'joke' does so much more harm than good. mental illness is independent of age, it's about time we start believing young girls
thank you!!
Agree! Especially hate the idea people are faking a mental illness, when you look deeper if someone is actually going through hoops to fake something that shows one way or another they need some help mentally. (I say deeper because their is people that fake it but they just use it as a personality trait and usually it is clear they don’t even know what they are talking about)
I feel like it has to do with those loud few who actually dO fake mental illnesses (I've met lots of those back then, it was a really toxic place that perpetuated lots of bad misconceptions for me and other students) that drive away those who actually do suffer from these mental disorders. I mean, there could be other reasons as to why people would "fake" these disorders, but it does create more stigma for those who genuinely need help.
@@worstusernameintheworld9871 i think it has a lot to do with how mental illness is romanticised especially on tik tok and tumblr (back in the day).
@@Mrym-q1q I definitely agree to that, not to mention, mental illnesses isn't really properly taught to people, especially in certain places (people where I live don't even talk about it and it's still stigmatized, most people who do speak up for mental health are other teens). So it usually ends up with young people finding out about it online through other people who already perpetuate the normalization of having mental illnesses (and not in a good way) and so they end up replicating that behavior for various reasons. I knew 13 year old me had a short phase like that, which was horrible because nobody out there really knew or told me it was wrong (or even encouraged the behavior) until I found out how toxic the behavior was a year later aND I realized that I had other negative reasons for acting that way. I feel like my answer could vary, but this is what I personally noticed from my own experiences.
If you wanna go with Jungian psychology then every single person has a persona and that is pretty normal. Just like you said. It's basically you wearing a mask that filters yourself into a version that you feel comfy showing the public. The word persona doesn't necessarily mean fake or acting.
Persona who the hell am I
I agree!
This reminds me so much of how i had to study for bts album Persona back in the day hahaha
@@serendip1tys i just wanna go I just wanna fly
Was gonna like this comment then say you use the word "comfy." God its so cringy
It's such an interesting idea that Lana Del Rey's popularity was a rejection of the GIRL POWER GIRL BOSS vibes being shoved down everyone's throat at the time. Women being equal doesn't mean having to be positive and empowered all the time, it means being able to express the full range of human emotions even if those emotions are destructive. Men have been self destructing since the beginning of history.
It's the fact that she said "there isn't a place in feminism for a woman like me"..... what? She's a white woman, feminism literally started due to white women like her. She's just so tone deaf and that insta post calling out mostly poc's was a nail in the coffin.
@@kinare1853 I don't think you actually grasped the message she was trying to say. She honestly just rlly badly worded it and I definitely think she should have done a better job and not listed black women to prove her point. She was just saying that a lot of women were judging her for not being girl boss and her music always portraying women needing a man, wanting love etc.
@@GrellxSebby1012 but she does have problematic lyrics? Like the lolita song is just very disturbing. And even ultraviolence. Femininity is not equal to letting men walk over you.
@@kinare1853 yeah, but what if that's her experience? she writes about it and there's no reason why people should get mad over it. it's not like "hey let's let man step over us". it's more like, "yeah, that happened, let me tell you". i dont understand why people get mad over other people feelings and experiences..
@@arthurmvandrade but at the end of the day it does glamorize abuse doesn't it? The average listener doesn't know her intentions behind a song, they just take it at face value. And at face value, it is glamorizing abuse. And if she just came out and said it, I wouldn't be bringing it up. Also the timing of the insta post is also really bizarrely considering how much praise and acclaim she was getting at that moment due to nfr.
Being Hispanic I always loved seeing Lana gain inspiration from our culture. As a struggling teen, it always made me feel seen in a world where parents were divorcing and I struggled with addiction. I never felt like she disrespected our culture and honestly in Mexico people love her and you would never hear that from latinos. Latinos love our sad girl.
yes i 100% agree!
amén!
I'm glad you said this.
yeah, we don’t care about these things here in latam meanwhile the “latinos”-americans will try soo hard to claim things as cultural appropriation and offensive etc
I'm Hispanic too and I think it's cringe, and so do many ppl of who I know... I know all the yt ppl won't give me internet validation unless I make a comment like that tho, of course 😂
I mean it's cool she donated that stuff tho
Imma say it again, female musicians should be allowed to be flawed and complicated as their male counterparts. They should be allowed to write dark subject matter like men do. Allowed to wear what they want without slutshaming. Not sanitizing/excusing bad behavior, just humanizing female artists.
PERIODT
THANK YOU! SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
Yes!!! I’ve always found it disgusting that Chris brown has a whole career but female artists cannot make a single mistake. I think it’s really weird that there’s a huge number of r*pist/racist/violent men in music that go unchecked but we pick out in women when they do nearly a fraction of that. Hold everyone accountable but it’s interesting that only women have to be gardians of morality..
@@Lina-ht3kl the "we" there is the reason you're wrong: it's not the same person people supporting the rapists as criticising marginalised people in good faith.
Yeah people in generel especially artists should do whatever the fuck they want
The fact the media still uses the word “mom” as a way to shame and put woman down in this day and age is honestly disgusting. My mother is wonderful, beautiful and the most amazing human I know. Let’s stop the hate please. 🧡
WHEWW 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻💖💕💗
As a mom, felt attacked too
Yeah. In my language "aunt" is used for same description and IMO it's better because aunts don't have to be close with the kids and it's assumed they're at least in their 30s.
My mom did everything in order for us to survive. If that's shameful for them, I feel sad for their mom.
Mom's are often old maybe that's why they use it? But I mean ik I'm gonna get old someday so 'mom' doesn't make sense or affect me. And I mean... My mom's the strongest person ik so what's so bad with being called mom?
It was refreshing hearing someone express rather interest and somewhat concern for her, not just speak for her. Thank you!
This!!
lana racist lana cop lover lana abuse glamorizer lana anti feminist xoxo
@@maks-zw6ul you genuinely look so stupid rn lol
@@444-o2w ok anal still dumb and racist 😎
people are basically putting the burden of being "a good influence" or role model on celebrities, Lana Del Rey is an artist and her music is amazing, let her express herself through her art and sing about what she wants.
YES
i couldn’t say it better myself.
True but because she has influence then she has the ability to do more damage. Great power great responsibility. Her words are worse because they can influence more people.
This exactly. People can’t control what artists create or what they write about. She isn’t a politician, she isnt a public speaker, she’s a musician
So you’re saying celebrities don’t have to be responsible? Why wouldn’t you want them to be good influences? Art is subjective so where do you draw the line on expression? What if someone promotes hate with their art? Hitler was an artist after all. What if we had a modern day Hitler who was a musician? Would you support that “cuz it’s art” or would you want them to take responsibility with their huge platform huh
In my opinion, the Sad Girl™ aesthetic has migrated to other social media platforms, like Twitter and RUclips, since self-deprecating humor and general pessimism/nihilism seem to be common trends, whereas on Tumblr, I'm seeing a lot more optimism and positivity. That might also be just because of who I follow though
yeah i agree! i think there is a lot of users who migrated to other socials and there is not a lot of new users so most users are veterans already experienced this type of trends and grew out of it
@Anna true
same !! it's interesting to see the shift in tumblr's general culture. and hilarious, because the general internet still thinks the site is the same way lol
@@corvicore6813 Yeah, exactly! When I first got a Tumblr account, I was expecting it to be a lot more negative and toxic because that's what I had found the general internet saying about Tumblr. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Tumblr is actually pretty tame lol
@@everetteschmeverette6866 Yeah, it's definitely super interesting to see how "the norm" has shifted over time. It's kinda like how The Straights™/Breeders have - somewhat - become the punching bag on TikTok nowadays in a lighthearted way (not tryna claim that "heterophobia" is running rampant, but you get my point), whereas even as recently as three, four, five years ago, that wouldn't have been true.
And it's absolutely true that TikTok is glamorizing a lot of messed up stuff nowadays because of their algorithm that prioritizes beauty. That's probably why you see a lot of mentions of EDs, addictions, lowered self esteem, general unhappiness with one's body, etc. It's very messed up but kind of interesting to observe, not gonna lie.
It bothers me that society puts the burden of needing to be a “good influence” or a “role model for young women” onto women just trying to express themselves and live their life. I feel like I see that criticism much less for male artists.
Just let Lana create her art. She shouldn’t be criticized for all the possible ways it could be interpreted.
Also as a teen girl, teen girls have a lot more critical thinking skills than people make us out to have.
When I listen to Lanas music it almost feels like I’m watching a movie and Lana is a character and I’m sucked into her universe. I can’t relate to her and I don’t want to. I like that she tells her story in a way that most people wouldn’t. I love that she has no interest in showing people what they want to see.
^^
Definitely! You can see it in hiphop and the rap genre; While cardi b and meghan thee station get criticised for "sexualising" womanhood and setting the wrong example for young girls, male artist like Drake and Kanye West NEVER get criticized for sexualizing themselves and women, or talking about how cool drugs and money are!
It's also seen in pop music artists like Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato who struggled with addiction and encounters with the cops where always critized for being a bad example for kids. But male pop artists like Justin Beiber (who was literally arrested) was never criticised for setting the wrong example for boys (Funny enough, he was criticised for being a bad example for "what kind of boys *girls* like").
So, in conclusion, every critique will ALWAYS be directed towards teen girls and women in general.
Like I don't understand why does everything have to be "relatable" for a person to like it.
@@adrianafetzer Yes! That’s such good example of this, it’s just the same old “Boys will be boys” attitude, while women have to carry so much responsibility on their shoulders
Best comment
Also the sheer amount of ridicule teenage girls get from the general western public for just being teenage girls and liking the things teenage girls like, is absolutely horrific and contributed to a lot of my personal shame, discomfort, and embarrassment surrounding my own teengirlhood
yes!!! It stinks to be like “I like this thing” and then everyone is like “oh you must be basic” or “aren’t you QuIrKy” like there’s no way out no matter what someone is gonna not like you for being a teen girl and it makes me upset!
Yes! The intensity of the pressure to not be girly or like other girls while still performing the correct amount of femininity to not be considered a man hating feminist or lesbian while going through your most intense exploration/development phase (puberty) and while trying to grapple with your sexuality, dating, and preparing + studying for your future career is literally so self-destructive and insane. Like, the overly dramatic way that drugs + alcohol were pushed on us by adults as the “height of self-destructive peer pressure” while almost nobody even gave a shit about them, while the anti-femme pressure was ignored despite being 10000% worse/more intense/more personal/more damaging/etc is genuinely baffling to me
Honestly. Like, if you’re a fan who screams at concerts and has posters of your favs, you’re a “crazy, obsessive fangirl”? But men can create full on man caves, collecting every piece of sports merch, slobbering at stadium games, and destroying things when their favorite team loses, but somehow _we’re_ the crazy ones??? Last I checked, we don’t start riots at concerts. Make it make sense!
And when guys play video games, people don’t say “You’re a basic bīt ch!” But somehow me getting drinks at the most popular coffee chain = basic?
Like, not every girl I know wears makeup or goes to Starbucks, but _every_ guy I know, without fail, plays video games. Somehow we’re all the same, but not them? It’s exhausting.
They honestly do the same to Lana even though she isn't a teenager. I don't really follow any news about celebs but every time something about her shows up on my radar, it's just cruel ridicule. I know she does some shady things but I think people just enjoy battering her.
if i didn't romanticize my sadness and found comfort in her songs about being sad i probably would've unalived myself by now
ikr. it’s way better to create something beautiful and artistic out of something ugly than to suppress the ugliness and only view it as a dark thing. you can learn and grow from traumatic situations if you allow yourself to and i believe doing it artistically is the best way to do it. if her music ruins people so much then that’s their own mental struggle they need to deal with, not blame the artist.
The thing is, sadness is addictive. The comfort you find in being sad, always listening to sad songs about dark subjects sucks you in. You never want to leave that dark place once you feel comfortable there and it gets so hard to push yourself up. Idk if I'm making sense or not, that's just how it was for me.
@@wetpants96 Tbh both perspectives make a huge amount of sense. There's no right or wrong way to try to survive I guess.
This is so real lol....
western individualism at its peak
I am one of the rare cases where Lana's music actually IS relatable. I was already in an established relationship at 20 years old with a man 30 years older than me (which WAS abusive, but I didn't recognize while IN the relationship) and when her music DID come out, she sang about a lot of the struggles that I could personally relate to. Even now that we have broken up, after spending nearly a decade with that man, her music still hits me like no other artist's music. I guess because it was such a unique situation to be in. I can't relate to a lot of romantic music in the mainstream because every relationship I have had has been pretty unconventional. I know Lana is problematic and has done some really insensitive things but damn dude, she was there with me at 3AM crying her eyes out with me over things no one else in my life had ever went through. So she will always hold a really special place in my heart.
Yes I think a lot of people accuse her of romanticizing abuse because they weren't in her situation. They've never experienced such stuff, and if they had, it was something brief and didn't cause anything long term for them. Honestly, it's the lack of understanding, but again maybe she has and it's just different people receiving different messages from her songs.
It was relatable to me too. Lana herself was also an alcoholic as a teenager and was sent away. I truly don’t understand the point of this video.
so you dated a 50 year old grandpa
Im SO sorry that happened
People say her music romaticizes toxic relationships, which I get, but to me it never felt like that. She had a way of capturing the pain of being in love with a toxic/emotionally abusive person and overlooking that aspect because you love them so much. Or being so into someone that you start to lose yourself and your identity, like in Video Games. It's sad, not romantic and I don't ever think she didn't get that across but that's just me. Like there's a reason Video Games is such a sad and melancholy song.
The prevailing joke that people used to make about Lana was “her music makes me nostalgic for things that haven’t actually happened to me” so when she casts herself in smoky strip clubs, dressed like Marilyn, singing about a much older or heavily tattooed man crying because a girl she was close to isn’t here with her anymore but she’s actually opulently wealthy... some 17 year old was out there going omg same. And it was probably me.
Honey go listen to lauv or harry styles
@@Shivalimusic I’m ok thanks
yea its insane that shes actually from a super wealthy family w connections to the movie industry. im still a fan but it changes things a bit
@@MelitaBintoro I mean when her birth name is Elizabeth Grant the wealth just jumps off the page
Yes thank you. I love her music but it makes me nostalgic for things I haven’t experienced. I don’t always want to feel nostalgic as it makes me sad.
We’ve become overly paranoid and obsessed with celebrities. It’s almost like we’re constantly trying to expose people for being bad.
this is extremely true. We make a huge fuss out of every thing they do, and even when the things they do aren't that bad, we twist and turn and try to make it seem like they did one of the worst things imaginable. We create problems and blame it on them because it's easier to blame the person in the spotlight than the people in the back.
I think people need to understand that Idolization is another form of dehumanizing, just in an extremely unattainable "positive" direction.
Unrealistic.
this is true for a lot of the media
Cancel culture needs to go
So much truth !!
As a black women I love lana. I went to her concert and she has a amazing voice! Her music got me out of dark times and listening to her album was like reading a book! Her music is captivating! She also got me into Jazz which now is my favourite genre.
This is so beautiful! I'm really glad to see Lana got you out of dark Times just like me. Just know you're not alone! By the way the person on your pfp looks really pretty💓
yess, she has so many hip hop/jazz influences esp in her new album
I will always love Lana's universe, music and persona. The storytelling, the lyrics, the instrumentals, the music videos... it's all absolutely perfect to me, no false note.
same. i love her
Art, that's very rare now days.
Same. And I like that she's always been unfiltered and told her story as it was
Pure art ✨✨
💙💙💙💙
I wouldn't say the 'sad girl' aesthetic is gone. To me, Billie Eilish embodies that image for gen z
I wasn’t gone but now came with more emotional responsibility
@lizzie fan what does that have to do with my comment?
Eww she fux with xxxtention cord? Pass!!!
also you could say that "e-girl" aesthetics on tik tok and instagram are essentially extensions of the sad girl persona that we had on tumblr
Billie Eilish imo is The generic version of Lorde.
People used to mad at her for glamorizing abuse and making a beautiful image out of sadness. She's beginning to change (as everyone does) and is no longer doing these things. But now the media has new things to criticize her on; her style, the way she makes album covers, any weight gained, etc. It is a representation of how no matter what a woman does in our society they will be criticized exponentially compared to a man. Lana does not exist for you (the viewer) and we should stop acting like it. She exists for herself and gives us content that represents pieces of her person she wants us to see.
@@crowfoot8059 no, she isn't. not once has she exhibited any racist actions towards ANYONE. it's a narrative that's been used in mainstream twt/ stan twt because they love to hate people.
@@crowfoot8059 I admit that she should have worded that better, or better yet left that out of her essay. I also hated her name dropping in her QFTC bc it was unnecessary. However, I don't think that any of those incidents constitutes the accusations of her being racist. I can admit that she says stupid shit (like literally someone stop her from posting it essays), but she is not racist
@@crowfoot8059 "I don’t really get to dictate whether that’s racist or not" ???? please read the sentence I replied to, the sentence where you took a line from her essay and pointed at it as racist behavior. Pick a point. It seems to me your blatantly finger pointing racism without any actual ground to stand on because I repeat "I don’t really get to dictate whether that’s racist or not".
@@sofi9817 I asked a question, I didn’t dictate anything, just wanted to know how you Lana stans feel about those allegations.
@@crowfoot8059 and I answered your question, as you can read again above. Then you proceeded to reply, and I answered again. You, however, labeled my answers as me making excuses for her. I don't know what more I can tell you lol
lana isn’t a role model, she’s not trying to give representation and she doesn’t have to as a musical artist. women creating art don’t have to be perfect role models with happy & uplifting messages. her art doesn’t have to be relatable, it’s as much about storytelling as it is detailing her own life. despite all that her music is incredibly relatable for a variety of reasons. whether you relate broadly to the sexualization of young girls, or more specifically to abusive relationships, childhood trauma, or addiction.
It doesn’t have to be uplifting, but it also doesn’t need to openly romanticize male validation and the self harm women go through to reach it.
@@strawberrycherrybabyif someone romanticizes her music, that’s on them not her lmao she’s allowed to sing whatever she wants without having to be worried of a 15 yo kid romanticizing it.
@@cece6652so if a musician made songs about hating minority groups you’d be ok with that because “she’s allowed to sing whatever she wants?” Singers should be responsible for their audiences because it is inevitable that they will influence people with their large platforms. If a singer making songs about hate has no fans, it doesn’t matter. But if they have millions of fans like her, it WILL influence them whether they want it or not.
@@Kizamo so by that logic, the knife manufacturer should be held accountable if a person used one of the knives to kill someone? Artists are supposed to censor themselves rather than express their art? Artists aren't responsible for people's education on topics and if no one has taught you (not you specifically, just generally speaking btw) about the themes she's singing about or what is healthy and what is not, that is wholly on your environment, parents, guardians, you name it. We've had kids jumping off roofs because they saw Superman fly in a movie. Now, that's not the filmmaker's fault but solely on the people who neglected to teach their child that they can't fly. Artists sanitizing their art for the sake of their audience to pretend we're living in an okay-world is just silly. Just as claiming that we aren't fully functional individuals who have no agency and can get brainwashed by a movie or in this case, a song, into actions and mindsets we don't even want in the first place. That is rather insulting.
i still feel like shes a role model for me. Shes not perfect, but thats what i love about her
I was raised by a single mother who lived the life described in Lana Del Rey's music. I witnessed 8 different stepfathers and the way my mother was completely blind to the toxic dynamics she was engaging in. This forced me to grow up looking at the world from the perspective of a lost and troubled woman who trusted men way too much. I eventually carried those emotions into adulthood and I truly feel in my heart that I lived her experiences at least emotionally.
She and I often talk about this bond we have.
To understand Lana Del Rey is to understand the disillusionment of womanhood, and the great lengths they go through to smile pretty for disapproving and emotionally unavailable men.
You can try your hardest to bash Lana's lyrical themes, but to do that is to bash the reality of women that came before you. Broken women deserve representation too. You can't erase their stories from history.
You described that beautifully, Lana has given voice to so many women. People who are not familiar with Lana's work do not understand this. Ultraviolence is one of the albums that changed the way I see life. I hope your mother is better now
You described ot beautifully 👏🏼
Thank you 💗💕
Ultraviolence literally saved my life.
Thank you. Someone gets it. Her music empowers me, personally. A statement of I may seem soft and feminine, but I have a story to tell, I’ve been singing the same song my whole life and no one has ever stopped to listen..
For me, I think plain and simple - she’s getting older. She is finding herself and what she wants out of life. Seeing as how her look, persona, music has changed over the years you can se a clear trend into it being more simple and easy going - at least that’s how I see it and thinking back to myself. I have been a fan since the very beginning and I’ve changed completely everything about myself and my life many times over. I think it’s only natural. However, I do wish she would stay off social media after receiving criticism or the like if it’s not to say that she accepts and will reflect on it. Everyone will at some point receive criticism and it not the right way to go to fight everything and everyone if you’re not 100 % in the right, and she hasn’t always been. I don’t know, her music still moves me and I love the new and the old as I have for years, but I feel that she should take time off out of any kind of spotlight to truly find who she wants to be and do with her life
agreed, like I grew alongside her. my tastes shifted as hers did. her early music which i still like definitely smacks of melodrama now that i’m older so I think it must to her too
Yes! I started listening to her when I was about 20, a year or so after she first debuted. I’m 29 now, and as I’ve gotten older I’ve found her older music less appealing and mostly listen to Honeymoon onward. Don’t get me wrong, still love her older music, just can’t relate to it as much anymore. That’s why I feel her music and image have changed. It’s not a good look to be in your mid 30s and still act like and sing about being a Lolita. I also agree she just needs to stay off of social media for a while lol.
Yes for real
A lot of what made and still makes Lana's music so intoxicating is the freedom she sings about that a lot of teenaged girls don't have, due to school and other responsibilities. As a brown girl, I could relate to wanting to be free to do what I want because as fellow brown girls know, we aren't given much freedom. Lana sang about having no responsibilities and doing things because she wanted to, something we could only dream of. also I would say she isn't exclusively inspired by the 50s and 60s, but also the 70s, 80s and 90s, especially in albums such as Ultraviolence, NFR and LFL.
That’s true as someone who personally lived with a strict Hispanic mother, it was hard to have your own physical freedom. For example, not being able to go out and just have fun. Lana Del Rey’s music was the only freedom I knew during high school and with her storytelling it was almost as if you envisioned yourself in it.
Thank you!! ❤️❤️❤️ Lana is a true artist who has evolved over the years. I would for this “person” whoever she is to go attack every single male artist who shares their unhappy lives, or she only attack Lana Because she’s a female doing it?
I would also say that she was one of the only ones across male and female performers that was singing about freedom and doing what you want at the time, a lot of the males were just simping over women and money
Brown girl here and totally agree
I agree as someone that has lost her youth to mental illness. I wanted my rebellion phase and careless phase so much yet I never had a chance to behave like a 'normal' teenager and sometimes it makes me sick
Lorde's critique on Lana seems so hilarious now, when she's got her own sad girl post-breakup album called Melodrama. It really shows that she was pretty much an unexperienced teenager at the time and just couldn't relate. I think Lana's music is aging like good wine. And it's not just about abuse, daddies and americana (I'm Russian and it does nothing to me), at its core it's about coming to terms with your sadness first and foremost. Lana's music is soothing for me.
literally same. discovering her music as a 12 yo gay boy in russia drastically changed my life cause i felt that much needed support from across the globe. it didn't make me glamorize depression or anything, but rather show i'm not alone in my suffering. and now, 10 years later, i can appreciate the journey she's gone through with her music and i still feel the connection that many just don't get. she's truly one of the best artists of our era.
lorde and lana are both mothers
@@shygyrl2328 tea. both deserve all the flowers for their works of art.
Melodrama doesn't try to make abuse seem beautiful. It isn't about an abusive daddy, it's about her boyfriend, the problems they had and why they had to put an end to a relationship that wasn't working anymore. It's way more mature than Born To Die.
@@semnome9536 if you think lana's music is just about abusive daddies then you've never listened to her music, just heard it.
It really bothers me when critics/ other celebs have critiqued Lana over years for negatively influencing young girls. I grew up with Lana and LOVED her from the beginning. I am now in my mid 20s and still love her and her music to this day. I can proudly say Lana’s influence has shaped me as a person, but no - I am not a sad girl dating an old rich man… teen girls are not as stupid and easily influenced as people make out. Leave us alone and let us enjoy this fantasy, beauty and flawless music. I really feel for Lana and understand why she is so sensitive to criticism. She is one of the best artists of our generation and I still can’t believe NFR didn’t win a Grammy
Honestly, same. I grew with lana in my teen years, uv is still my fav album. But no, I don't do drugs, smoke or consume alcohol or even date old men. One thing for sure is that I still enjoy her music the way it is.
She helped me get through some dark times. She’s my Queen for life
Same
same,, i feel like her music has always been there for me and her voice feels like home. I’ve been listening to her since I was 13 but i still think old men and drugs are gross! It’s ur parent’s job to make sure certain things don’t have an influence on you, not Lana’s she’s just creating art!
agreed! I never judge her in what she does musically. What she did that unrelated to music never bothers me or I care about it. I just want to see her musical journey and see her grow as an artist. people aren't allowed to grow according to their own time anymore. It feels like suddenly we all are expected to act like full grown adults and everything we do have to be reasonable or rational all the time. that's not how humans are. we make mistakes and it's okay.
I'm in my 30s, but I'm still depressed and relate to Lana's music. Being sad isn't just an outdated fashion statement, it's a mental illness. Some of us never stopped being "sad girls", and sometimes glamorizing my life is the only way I have to cope with depression.
Amen.
yes
Who's in ur pfp :D ?
Totally agree. It makes you feel seen and special for the things you can’t change
Well said
please do marina and the diamonds! her personas are so cool, and can we talk about Lana Del Rey's romanticization vs Marina's critiques of America(na)
Qq
Oh I’d watch the hell out of this
my favorite thing about this is that they actually became friends ksdkkf
also i remember back in the time when the two of them + florence were considered the holy trinity of indie music, i used to be lowkey obsessed with the 3 of them and their music
omg yess
I listened to Lana back when I was young, she didn't fuck me up, life fucked me up. She was my comfort, her music resonated with me. Even back when I was 13 I wasn't dumb enough to follow her "example", it was clear to me that she was singing about her experience, her life and her unfortunate situations. Lana is an artist, she isn't a role model or an activist, she is allowed to sing about whatever she wants to whether you deem it appropriate or not.
You know, I don't even like her that much anymore but I still think she has the right to share her life the way she wants to. She isn't a perfect person but why should I care? Neither am I and neither are you. Does a painter have to be a perfect person for me to enjoy their paintings? No, of course not.
As a woman of color, i have to say that Lana saved me, her music helped me cope depression when i was a teenager.
I didn't admire her for how she looked. Im a black woman, she is white. I live in the caribbean. She lives in USA. what connected me to her was her music, the feelings, the struggle.
Lololol. The struggle? She grew up upper middle class.
@@vlera8447 she’s talking about the stories she tells in her music of struggling women, not Lizzie’s actual struggle. That’s the point of being a song writer or an actress playing characters
@@vlera8447 This just in: you're not allowed to have emotions if you grew up well off.
@@vlera8447 I will never understand this kind of comment. Struggle can happen through many shapes and forms. For example, Lana was an alcoholic at 14-15 years old. Does this sound like grew up in a healthy environment, where she was looked after?
@@vlera8447 yet she had a drug addiction and alcohol addiction and was groomed and lived in a trailer park for most of her life?
I have never seen men getting dragged for being fake or having a persona or being inauthentic for having a persona
it's bc of misogyny. this creator has a lot of reflection to do.
Right?
Fr rappers are much more problematic than lana's references to nabokov's book
True
and it’s funny bc Lana didn’t have a “persona” her entire “persona” was a metaphor. she wasn’t trying to be Jackie Kennedy, how she dressed, what she wrote, how she acted, it was all simply a metaphor
I’m very grateful to Lana for writing the song ‘Carmen’ which reminds me so much of my mother, to be able to write certain people to life and the emotions that come with their experiences isn’t an easy thing to do, the truth is that life can be sad and beautiful and both sides need to be represented in music. It isn’t just an aesthetic.
Carmen is my favorite song of all time! So dreamy, dark and melancholic
I guess the song has a special power of evoking memories of people, because it always reminds me of my childhood friend
@@stoneheart8231 It is one of my all time favorite songs as well 🖤🖤
I understand what your message was and I agree with most of the things you’ve said about her career and her music. But to be honest, we need to stop thinking that artists are responsible for our children…yes her music can influence you but in the end it’s your decision… I’ve been a fan of LDR for a really long time, and I’ve never for once thought that she glamorised sadness or abuse… she talked about it in a way that no one ever did. She said everything we felt, that’s how relatable she was… I love her and her music, I think she’s an unique artist… most female only sing about love and boys and pussy, and when she came, she showed most woman that life is not roses and champanhe and that’s what I freakin love about her, she’s raw…
I see the points in your comment except the cringy "most female" thing. We're called women and most women DON'T sing about "love and boys and pussy". It's not our fault your taste in music is limited. Women are out there killing it in various rock subgenres, women are taking more and more space in modern metal. Women are doing the fcking thing.
just had a flashback of the MANY first season AHS photos on Tumbrl. "normal people scare me" will haunt me forever lol
OMG NORMAL PEOPLE SCARE ME BROUGHT SOOOO MANY MEMORIES
noooooo don't remind us
@@aathenaiz6151 Creepers shoes and Adventure Time sad edits are included? lol
@@boldanabrasevic3020 cant wait in a few years for 2014-16 tumbrl and we love it pics to be on IG pop culture profiles!!! cringy but SO nostalgic content lol
Omfg sorry i was one of those kids that made a gif of that
I started listening to Lana towards the end of an abusive relationship after being sexually assaulted by my then boyfriend, who was much older than me. Her music made me feel less alone and almost like the song was for me to get lost in. Looking back, it didn't cause me to glamorize or romanticize the trauma I was experiencing. It just made me feel better about it. I can't really explain it. Her music IS relatable if you have gone through similar issues. I'm sure those who have understand what I'm trying to say. Her music is a beautiful escape.
I full heartedly agree. People who can't relate to her songs and are uncomfortable by them like to write the whole thing off as "problematic" to avoid these truths. Lana's music has helped me so much.
I think it made you feel better about it because you felt seen and understood. Like someone in the commets said (and I quote) it's an outlet for those of us who aren't "supposed" to be sad but still are!
Exactly. Telling your story isn't glamorising abuse. I think it's sexism.at work when women speak up about it ppl need to twist it bc the amount of abuse girls/women go through is ridiculous and they don't want to deal with it bc it's easier for them to dismiss us. Misogyny at it's finest. Victim-blaming at it's finest. It's unacceptable. And ridiculous when there's countless movies and games glorifying war, etc, that never get nearly the amount of scrutiny bc it's accepted as the standard....
.
That's how I felt about Ultraviolence when I was still in my abusive relationship. I felt like it was a song written by an abuse victim that was justifying the abuse out of love, dependence and being mind fucked. It honestly made me feel like I needed to get out before it's too late.
The thing I'm confused by is since when is telling a story about your PERSONAL experiences considered glamourizing. I thought people wanted authenticity and the reality but when you give it to them they don't want it anymore because it gets too real for them.
Also, she Isn't responsible for raising teen girls around the globe, their parents are responsible for that
I think it's not fair to use "romanticizing" as a criticism. Anything popular literally will be romanticized because everyone, especially teens want to be cool and unique. So they jump on any new aesthetic and see it as cool. It's impossible to write about anything without having someone romanticize it. It's not the artist's fault.
Beautifully said🙌🏻
exactly, she's making art about her abuse and now people are telling her how she's coping is wrong. it seems very insensitive to me.
There is a difference between telling experiences and romanticizing them. You can say “oh x happened. I though y, z, and w about it” without saying “oh x happened. It was y, z, and w.”
@@completely100percenthuman you don't get to decide what other people are allowed to feel. You don't get to tell people how to deal with their situation and how to act/feel about it. That's not how it works.
When you really delve into her discography, there’s songs that are about a lot more than men and I that’s where at least for me I relate to her music, when she’s singing about depression in general such as Black Beauty or Thunder
I may no have been a teenage girl but being a teenage gay is pretty close lmao the list brought back memories
same lmao
Trur ...We're just different teams fighting the same patriarchy
@@kayboy6055 yesss
Sad gays like myself love her. Lol
I felt seen!!!
I strongly disagree with saying that she romanticized abusive relationships, she simply wrote her songs and created her art based on her own experiences as a woman who experienced abuse. A victim's perspective shouldn't be judged like that, it is a life lasting trauma and to say that she was telling her story in the 'wrong' way is to invalidate her experience, as well as stating that there is a 'correct' way to cope with trauma and abuse, it's nonsense. Although I have my own critiques towards her, that is not one of them.
I agree. Pain and victimhood are valid emotions, and shouldn’t be neglected because they are negative. Music can be a channel for letting those emotions out. Personally I felt lana’s song was like a friend who understood my pain. It helped me cope with hard times.
THIS!!!^^ you put it so well
Is it trauma/abuse if she wants it and consents to it?
factsss.
🖤🖤🖤
Her music helped me a lot when I was depressed. Every single popular song was about being happy, confident and uplifting yourself but I felt really alienated by them. It made me feel worse that I was depressed because they made me feel ashamed for not being happy.
When o started listening to Lana, it's like I found someone like me and It made me feel extremely validated. It taught me that it's ok to be sad and feel hopeless sometimes. It helped me grow from my past.
Lana's music helped me when I was trapped in an abusive relationship. Women/girls who haven't had to experience that pain might romanticize the songs like ultraviolence, but for those of us who have experienced it those songs were the cries of our souls. They're songs about heartbreak. People who shame her for her music are just another case of people shutting down women. Loving a man who loves hurting you is a female experience that shouldn't be silenced, because it's real.
11:15 "Lana can't be relatable to teenagers" she literally saved me from suicide when i was a teenager lmao
Lana's music was a warm hug when I was facing my darkest times with depression
i had struggles with rly abusive parents that used to even beat me, had to run away to my grandma's house and was living an abusive relationship with a guy (i was 15 and he was 16, he was NO older man) who rly hurt me mentally speaking for 3 years but "saved" me from my parents, and her songs gave me strength to keep enduring that until i was able to get free.
i used to hate myself and when "Honeymoon" came out the song "God knows I tried" was like my hymn to not give up even with everything messed up in my life.
i think she forgot some people have/had really awful experiences as teenagers. not all of us were lucky enough to be protected, i can see myself through lana's music and I'll be forever grateful for her art
@@nicoalbarn i rly thought there were ppl like me and i'm so glad to see i was right! i hope ur doing better now, but we're forever grateful for her art and music
that's so sad to hear. lanas music also helped me for years and I can for sure say I wouldn't be here today if there wasn't her music. I really hope you're in a better place now💕
I was in a abusive relationship too with a same age guy and man Lana she literally helped me to go through those times so I could finally get out of that shit
Literally in this vid she’s just admitting to her own ignorance... if all u get out of Lana is that she “wrongly” basks in her sadness even tho she sings abt genuine topics to be sad about then that’s on you. Also she implies in this vid that poor women/ woc don’t experience abuse and can’t relate to Lana??? I literally hate this video
The hyper fixation on her lyrics and references and calling them out as ‘problematic’ and ‘influencing young girls’ not only shows how women in music, media in general, can’t make a single flaw when so many male artists are constantly referencing things like rape, assault, controlling women ect and in a much more explicit, graphic way then LDR did when talking about violence, but also, shows how we still see teenage girls as these impressionable mindless creatures. Calling her persona ‘shattered’ and saying she is failing to be mysterious like Prince shows that her persona is not fake because she is a person and is growing and changing with time and she is not ripping off other artists who crave this specific persona. Also her ‘mum like’ media presence ppl criticise and her filters isn’t ‘corny’ it’s her being herself and not changing and adapting to fit in with younger generations, being authentic like everyone is ASKING FOR!
men have been singing about being sad for decades but if a woman does she's suddenly ruining an entire generation of teenagers, it's just ridiculous
Exactly! You definitely put it into the best perspective. Thank you
so true!!
Amen!
exactly. Not to mention that Lana has no responsibility to sensor herself for young teen audiences. She's not a disney or nickelodeon star. She's a star in general, she didn't put herself out there to be a role model for impressionable young people, so that criticism of all artists needs to stop. Let them be who they are without worrying it'll reflect badly on your kids. If you don't want your impressionable teens consuming media about this then watch what they do, talk with them about how the things she sings about aren't right in real life.
Let's not act like having relationships with older men, drug abuse and self-ham aren't relatable, or only to a select few. Teenage/young women are going through these things throughout all classes and layers of society. Not everything is either a light or dark / bad or good experience. You can have mixed feelings about abuse or self-destructive behaviour naturally and Lana's music and stories embody that. Also, I don't think it's fair to make Lana responsible for romanticising those things, because we do it ourselves in our daily life anyway because when we're living those experiences we often don't notice how harmful or destructive they are.
Also, NFR and Lana's use of the American flag to me seems like a critique on Americana, the American Dream and its ideology and politics.
I think it's quite counterproductive to attempt to sanitise all music/art/media from anything that could be deemed offensive, as these are real problems/sentiments/experiences that live in society and within individuals whether they know/want it or not. It's like we're obsessed with becoming 'pure' and faultless beings.
I agree with almost everything here, her music is relatable and idk how anyone can be aware how much men lust after teens and not realize that plenty of teen girls end up having experiences with older men... But I think Lana's use of American symbols is simply the aesthetic she's going for, I've never noticed any evidence that she was being critical of American culture.
@@avsusky I’m from Europe so perhaps I have different perspective, idk. Just that her American references sometimes seem subversive to me, as she always contrasts the American dream against all these elements of destruction. But maybe I’m overestimating her lol.
@@avsusky agreed
Thank you Hannah.
@@hannahc7698 yeah she does sound a bit like there's a level of irony in that Americana aesthetic exactly because of this association of ideal and decaying elements
People who now hate lana for being herself instead of being a persona they created in their mind never liked her in the first place. Also her music, since NFR, has been phenomenal and there's a beauty to her becoming more and more personal.
she is also now a grown woman and you can hear that more and more in her music, especially latest album. i love that to the core
I can’t help but compare her a little bit to Alex turner’s personas. Like I can deff see some similarities between how they rose to fame in the US. The only thing is Alex is still kind of shrouded in mystery due to his lack of a social media presence. I think he kept the mystery alive while she shattered the illusion.
i totally agree but never thought of comparing the two ha ha
@@analisa8105 hahaha I’m a bit obsessed with Alex and Lana so that’s why I thought of that comparison lol
I totally see what you mean! Alex kind of looks unattainable whereas Lana seems now more tangible or human-like. And they fill the sad boy and sad girl spectrum, right?
Also, didn’t they work together in the studio? I think Alex helped her with her new album or something like that but I’m not entirely sure...
@@gloriavvaa9043 Yeah that's exactly what I meant! Lol I didn't even know that he and miles helped her with her album, but that's really cool
Super true i used to wish Alex had a social media presence when i was a super fan and starving for content but now i somewhat understood his feelings about social media and present culture from tbhc album i get it why he'd like to stay out of it and it's probably for the best.
Not to be inconvenient, but the thumbnail makes me feel like you and lana are going to kill me with exactly 1993 stabs
OMG YAS😂😂😂
😂
*a teen girl liking billie eilish*
people for literally no reason: "omg the fake depressed 14 year olds"
This hurts because I used to think and say stuff like that.
@@Lunella08 well, it's good that you've grown
@@fibromiteready2fight809 Yeah. I now realize it was coming from a place of self-hate since I enjoyed some of the things I hated on other girls for openly liking. I'm just glad I grew out of that and now have the strength to be myself.
@@Lunella08 ✨G R O W T H ✨ love to hear it :)
@@Lunella08 Yayyy for growth! I remember I was a teen and would feel edgy for hating certain music and artist but now im like fuck it love whoever you want. The number 1 thing i found funny is people like to hate on popular stuff because they think they are unique and against the grain......but hating on things because they are popular is the same thing. You are also a sheep jumping on a band wagon because its popular to hate that thing. For example BTS for me, people like to shit on them but most of them have heard 1 maybe 2 songs and then think they know everything and will talk shit because everyone else is also talking shit. I feel like once you do research on a subject THEN you can critique it all you want, if not you are also doing what everyone else does, you arent special and you arent cool.
I honestly can't see a problem with Lana. I see a problem with social media that dragged her throughthe mud for having an opinion. She is an artist creating art. She never appeared as a person who wanted to be a role model but rather as a person creating an utopia for herself.
And also I don't agree that she is problematic. Again she is not a role model she is an artist creating movie like songs based on her experience - nothing wrong with that.
Would like to add that I was also a teenager that liked her songs and I wanted to relate to her at one point. But even though a child I still had a head on my shoulders and realized that I am better off not relating. She was never a role mother for me it's her Americana vibe that drew me in bc I am an Eastern European and America just started to rise on the market of my country at that time.
I don’t get the hate she gets. Billie eilish talks about suicide in her music so much more and doesn’t get dragged for it. “I wanna end, I wanna end me, I wanna end me” in her lyrics. The hypocrisy
I feel like there are several reasons people would give her hate, which were all mentioned in the video and that's what the more recent hate has been about. Overall, from statements she puts out/things she says it just seems like she's still behind the general direction of growth in society, though she does seem to have grown some. It's true that Billie Eilish sings about her mental health struggles a lot, but she somehow doesn't seem to glamorize imo. And she was actually a teenage girl when she started
probably because Billie Eilish is more edgy about it and gives you the feeling she isn't all that serious about it, or that she's somehow distanced emotionally and therefore cool - young people say things like FML (fuck my life) and "I wanna kill myself" all the time yet they don't actually mean that - while Lana was or at least seemed more serious about her feelings? idk, just my guess, I'm under impression that people don't like sensitive, vulnerable women who just share their feelings like that and tell it like it is because this is what a typical woman is like, they prefer the ones who at least try to act tough and put the mask on, or who detach themselves emotionally
the difference is there is nothing ¨glamorous¨ or ¨romantic¨ about the song bury a friend rather it frames the suicide reference in a scary manner. lana has a bad habit of framing suicide, abusive relationships, and drug abuse as a key aspect of her glam sad girl aesthetic thus making it something young people might unfortunately romanticize
Billie Eilish is barely an adult (19) and Lana is a grown woman in her mid 30s
@@joeyrivers8845 I don't think young people would romanticise those things BECAUSE of Lana, rather, they already do it themselves and therefore relate to Lana who sings about feelings they're familiar with
Let's not forget the obsession/glamorization of eating disorders on Tumblr in the early 2010s. The only women cycling through Tumblr at the time were Lana del Rey, Daughterofhungryghosts, and Marina in her heartbreaker era... Three beautiful thin white women. I remember avoiding lunch and the sun at 14 to achieve this aesthetic. & This was on top of the drug use, self-harm push you brought up. Such a dangerous time to be a teen girl!
Sadly it has always been dangerous to be a teenage girl:(
@@CarolaTesla sadly, very true.
Yes! I was actually surprised that this wasn't brought up when discussing why it's so hard being a teenage girl, and what it was like being a teenage girl on the internet (specifically Tumblr) in the early 2010s. I feel like this toxic diet culture that promoted a lot of pro-ED behaviour was pretty closely intertwined with a lot of the Sad Girl aesthetics.
@@hyacinthannah There was so much layered onto the problems of 2010s Tumblr and its effect on teenagers, she did well on bringing every other issue up i think! But agreed 100%, Tumblr was extremely pro-ED. It was a scary time, i remember people analyzing Cassie from Skins eating habits and replicating her behavior and it was SO cool at the time, learning how she tricked people into thinking she ate her food & all. Though, I dont think we can blame women like Lana for this. she was expressing herself and it just so happen to be a hit online. Media just kept pushing out women with the similar messages onto teen girls.
omg, i looked her up and realized i’ve seen pics of ‘daughterofhungryghosts’ floating around for YEARS and NEVER knew who she was lmao
Art isn't supposed to make everyone happy..
and celebrities, especially musicians aren't role models. Lana just told her story...
and not everyone is supposed to like it either. people can criticize lana and her a r t, especially considering they have a lot of stuff to criticize.
@@toxoplasmagondi or just mind their own business like the rest of us because it has nothing to do with them and doesn't affect them.
I think art is not supposedly to make everyone happy. It’s supposed to to make you *feel* emotions, not only happiness. It shouldn’t be always giving way to positive outcomes alone.
@@icystorm9968 that's not how art works. People are free to criticise, but the criticisation isn't the end all be all... That's what I've been told in art school, anyway. You can't tell people not to talk about her public work even if you think they should mind their business, especially if it's a fan doing the criticising since it's not just random haters. Would the same apply to a film like Birth of a Nation? Lol.
Lana never said she's a role model to anyone. People have a different way of coping with trauma/abuse and she just happens to express hers through her art (music). You can't seriously expect every person to express their 'darker' feelings the same way. She's not afraid to express herself. Seriously, imagine how boring all the art would be if the artists constantly had to worry about sending the wrong image of themselves 🙄
The song girls is auto biographical. All the stuff about drugs and dating older abusive men is true. She has like several years of sobriety now and got sober at like 19 or 20 and had very troubled teen years. Yeah this stuff is problematic but like people legitimately have these experiences.
Fr everyone is missing the point
There is a different between expressing your feelings/experiences and romanticizing/glamorizing certain things.I think how you portray something is more important than what you portray.I think she is romanticizing "daddy" fantasy a lot.Many of her fans fetishizes Lolita immensely.Don't get me wrong I agree that if she were a male,she would get less criticism.But it doesn't change what I said.I didn't listen to her latest album (I heard 2-3 songs) but her old songs make me kinda uncomfortable.Especially when I see fan videos where an underage girl and old man are portrayed like it's an "aesthetic".
@Richard Grayson people in the comments acting romanticization isn’t a thing or 2 things can’t be true at the same time.
@@nairabee245 Exactly.You can talk about heavy topics without romanticizing and being didactic.
I think that lana is just tired of everything, She doesn’t promote her music or do anything that a celebrity would normally do. Her lyrics are now full of frustration and way more personal. Her music is becoming less cinematic. I think that unfortunately she will stop making music soon. She is probably just tired of her life now
I also think that her persona is like a more glamorous version of herself. If you are a real fan you know that she went through a lot of stuff in her life. Her music is beautiful therefore her lyrics began to be seen as glamorous
I dont think shes gonna stop making music, shes got her loyal fanbase and critical acclaim.
Ok but her mental health is way better now of her own admission and she's literally releasing music so frequently. Why did you have to say that she's probably tired of her own life now?
She's made 3 albums in a year and a half, I don't think she's going to give up music.
@@rosegoldhalo
i actually think blue bannisters is her last album but there are rumors that she is working in a second album with mike dean so idk
She’s the only singer that I feel sees into my soul. She has saved my life too many times to count. For people to assume she is romanticizing the things she’s singing about, severely overlooks the importance of her music. She sings about her life and in doing so, she has helped so many people, including me
Agreed!!
Okay I have seen so many comments and I have reached my limit . A singer may do good for one community while doing harm to another . Lana did glamorize abuse to people who haven’t been in abusive it toxic relationships she make it seem like it this high fashion fever dream of passion shit when it’s not
@@adrianawilliams4810 Lana never glamorized anything, she never pushed others to do certain things, she just expressed her experiences in her dongs
I'm 66 currently. I have been fortunate to have lived through several eras of music.. My tastes haven't changed much and I'm still the same Bowie fan I was at 18.
The constant dissection of artists in music is starting to bother me.
I had never heard any of Lana's songs until a month or so ago. By accident I came across Summ Sadness and didn't look back.
She is unique. She is the only artist I've come across that can create a "vibe", or actually put you into a song.
That for me is a true talent.
That's all I need. No need for over analyzing but that's my opinion.
i think lana is such an interesting topic! another one that would be juust as interesting is madonna imo one of the biggest style icons of all time
@@ironwingartist5578 what the hell?? i literally have never seen or heard of this until now, ew
@@ironwingartist5578 where are the sources for this? I've never seen this before
@@GrellxSebby1012 it was a passage in her 1992 book Sex. because the book is semi fiction and semi autobiographical the reality of the situation is unclear
@dani commenting bc i have the same question and wanna be updated lol
@@gremloid same here I wanna know what the comment was about
that era of tumblr mina talked about really was so detrimental. in addition to those images she referenced (medicine bottles, bruises, tattooes, cigarettes, etc.), I used to see a lot of images of self-harm scars and that as a part of the sad/emo girl aesthetic led me to actually self-harm for many years. yeesh.
i had the exact same experience n have just recently realized it
@@enyavissepo last time I checked tumblr (at least 1 year ago) I noticed that images like that are no longer available. I wonder how different things would have been for me (for us) if tumblr never allowed those images on the site in the first place!
@@lolzlolzlolzlolzlol1 i often think that too, i definitely would not have self harmed bc i now realize the glamorization of self harming clouded for me the severity of the act, im now at a place where i cant even believe i did such a thing but im aware that tumblr had a big part in my perception of it
it really wasn't great was it
OMG this is true for meeee
She writes about her experiences that’s why her music has changed so much recently before fame she sang a lot about drinking and partying bc she was experiencing it now she is sober now and her music has toned down a lot
i met lana when i was 8 years old when the summertime sadness remix was played on the radio, i didn't become a fan until i was 13 when i was able to search for her music by myself and to this day (16 years old) I haven't identified with any of her songs, I haven't had any experience like hers, but she's still my favorite singer and I can't imagine life without her music You don't always have to relate to something to feel close to it.
i agree with you! i’m 15 and lana is my favorite artist. do i relate to any of her songs? not really. however,she makes me feel things that other music just can’t
@@extrzq dude the production is just good like her singing in “shades of cool” is CRAZY
@@extrzqyou two be careful with sharing your age on the internet. No hate, peace
She expressly and deliberately went against the trends of being the empowered girl boss etc...and it made her stand out. Id like to point out though. Its a little ironic that some artists who sing about the strong independent women are the ones who actually struggle with drugs and alcoholism. Like demi lovato and britney spears. These artists are victims of the industry and their whole persona were manufactured to fit the current feminist trend. Its sort of a deceptive message when they push this feminist narrative, while criticizing another artist who came out with a fantasy vulnerability. Thats why i think she came out with that statement in the first place. All of these are marketing strategies and none of them are authentic. They all understand what you need to do to survive
Couldn't agree more. It's so nice to see comments actually ackowledging what she was really trying to say, as opposed to pointing out everything wrong with it, and letting those issues drown out the real message.
I have been trying to tell this to people since ages 😂😂😂 Also, why should she get called out for liking old men when that's not what she does in her current real life. Her older songs were about the life she once lived. She is a strong woman who overcame alcohol addiction. The so called good girl pop stars have had way more problems in real life
Diluted white feminism
It's sad that Britney sings about power while she is basically a slave for her father, label, music industry. Also demi did say that when they wrote/sung confident they weren't feeling confident. It's all about image and fake love
0
I think one thing about Lana's music that I love is how she talks about real issues. Abuse, drugs, hopelessness, depression, love and sex are all actual things, and while most of us cannot, and hopefully will never be able to, relate to all her songs, it makes her seem like a real person, despite the persona.
I absolutely love pop stars like Dua Lipa, Katy Perry and Doja Cat at the moment, but the constant release of "I'm so happy and so in love" or "I'm talking really vaguely about a slightly messy break up" songs feel so far away from realism at times. I think that's why girls were so willing to embrace Lana's music and style; we were finally 'allowed' to feel the other half of the emotions that regular pop told us we shouldn't.
The whole idea of women needing to be mystique to be popular is just deep-rooted misogyny. Why does expressing her opinion suddenly make her less mysterious? Why do people want Lana to act as an object and say nothing? Why can't people just accept she is a person and that she has no responsibility to do anything for anyone other than herself?
you're right about all of this but please use girls/women instead of females
Exactly.
@@user-ed7et3pb4o Agreed!
Thank you for your input. You are right on the spot
@@user-ed7et3pb4o sry abt that. i was just trying to find another way to say women. i changed it :)
I partly agree with you although I feel like this tends to an extreme sometimes.
Sure, Lana's social media presence is quite problematic and she can be irresponsible/ controversial when trying to defend herself, but still, as an artist her role isn't to protect her audience and to be a role model. She never asked tumblr sad teenage girls to romanticize her abuse and can't control the way people are going to interpret her words. Sure, she fuels their aesthetic but at the end of the day she's not responsible for them. What happened to freedom of speech? It's not like we're going to censor/ ban her songs or prevent young women from listening to them! Also, I don't think they take her content literally and they're not that influenceable (at least I'm not...) : sure they enjoy her music and consider it a form of escapism but Lana isn't encouraging them to date men old enough to be their father, she's just writing about her own life and we should just let her.
" Problematic " lmao
I remember Lorde got so much shit back in the day for talking about other artists, I remember people criticising her looks which was pretty disgusting. Now suddenly everyone misses her lmao
The fact that she was so young too...she was a teenager. Teenagers say dumb shit all the time, just go to my high school
Music is art and a form of expression. She can write and sing about whatever the hell she likes. It's who she is.
Imagine how dull the world of music would be if you could only write politically correct lyrics for the fear of upsetting someone or influencing teenagers in the wrong way. She sings about what she feels, what is so wrong about that?
Exactly!
Also it is nothing wrong to give criticism about it.
@@radiogugu9137 Yes but it is awfully suspicious when we are extremely critical of a female artist and not caring at all about what male artist do. At least that's how I percieve it.
Exactly
Yeah I see your point, but people will still have their opinion. They will not like the effect she could have, regardless, that should never be a reason to not make music.
it's absolutely heartbreaking to see what controversies lana has landed herself in recently. i adore her and her music, but it's very hard to defend her these days. love her music tho, born to die, ultraviolence and nfr are iconic and so is she
i feel the same… tbh sometimes i wish she would have sort of “disappeared” after the nfr like lorde did
I love her too, but some of the criticisms against her are understandable. Even I hope she learns and becomes better.
justice for honeymoon 😔
truly, those 3 albums are just top tier
@@zellazella1518 High By The Beach is _the_ shit.
I have distain for the viewpoint that just because something is problematic in your opinion, or that you get triggered by something, that that should stop people from creating art.
I appreciate your take that “persona” isn’t synonymous with lack of authenticity, I haven’t heard anyone say that before and I have to say I agree, even though that is the popular connotation the word has. Though- and I must preface this by saying that I’m not a Lana Stan by any means- I kind of take Lana’s word for it that it wasn’t a persona. In fact, it’s probably the only thing she’s ever said that I agree with. Like, she just had style. And sure, there were motifs in her music as with many artists, but when does style and having recurring themes cross over into being a persona? I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that this vintage-obsessed, submissive, cig smoking Sad Girl with a working class fascination was who she truly was at that time- like, I guess I just don’t see any evidence that that’s anything besides who she really was, for better or worse
Your description of what it's like being a teenage girl is spot on. As a teenager myself I can 100% relate to everything you said.
Fun Fact : Lizzy called herself "Lana Del Rey" bc of the actress Lana Turner and "Rey" bc of Ford Del Rey she thought it was more authentic than Lizzy Grant
Wasnt Del Rey because of the place Marina Del Rey????
i like ur pfp
@@fays7309 no she was inspired by her Cuban friends when they came up with those!
@@Nowegotbadblood tysm💗🦋🍄
@@deftoniaa wasn’t it during a trip to Miami with her sister???
The most exemplary thing about lana's songwriting is the world building & narrative nature of it. This genius woman tells stories through her songs & doesn't make vapid, loose, shear pop songs for radio airplay. Lana Del Rey is the greatest living songwriter, an auteur of the millennial generation
13:41
she's no longer displaying it with a sense of pride. nfr was an album that mocked, although "mocked" is a harsher word for it, modern america. the entire album she is speaking about how the american dream is not an accurate representation of how life in the U.S truly is, which is why she named the album after a painter who drew america to be prettier than it actually was.
um Norman Rockwell had controversial paintings that exposed the contradiction between American values vs American reality. It wasn't all painting America prettier than it was.
@@xavierdomenico that's.. that's what i just said. i'm saying it was mocking those who paint america to be prettier than it is, like norman rockwell.
@@_.kalico._ Oh I thought you were saying Norman Rockwell only painted the good parts of America and were agreeing with Mina
I only started listening to her at age 20 (not a Sad Girl, but Depressed Adult); and the next year, Lust for Life dropped. I spent that summer in LA, and being able to see her posters on the corner was fantastic!
Hear me: Lana may not be a feminist in the popular sense (which branch of feminism is "authentic" then?), but some of her critics are definitely misogynists.
A lot of her criticisms should be directed towards wider structural, societal issues like beauty standards, work-place sexual abuse and so on, instead of at her. Also, her opinion that she had no place in feminism might only refer to a branch of feminism heavily appropriated by neoliberal capitalism, you know, the #girlboss type that mainstream female artists don on in one way or another. That isn't actually feminism either, cuz it doesn't empower the vast majority of women, only the few on top. Come to think abt it, Lana's femininity, sentimentality, and non-aggressive sexuality all attracted criticism; I guess she really irked some misogynists huh. So her statement shouldn't be dragged too much. Twitter can be such a toxic place sometimes
That’s exactly what she meant with the statement, (pertaining to girl boss thing) but somehow no one saw that that’s what she meant and it all went nuts 😣
Also, why does she have to be a feminist? Because she is a female? Do we really need to be put in little boxes and little categories all the time? She is a human being talking about human emotions, dark or not. If you try to impose a guideline in the creative act that respects all the little boxes that people imagine, then art is lost.
@@andreeabucur4935 feminism isn't a little box, it's literally a worldwide movement that exists because women keep being discriminated against, abused and killed just because they're women. If given all that you still choose to not align yourself with feminism, don't be surprised people think you're a nonce
@@poisonbiscuits I know what feminism is and I am a feminist. But guess what? Not everybody has to be a feminist. Maybe they align themselves with the core values and they don't want to be called like that. I am not here to trigger. I JUST THINK art it's not to be messed with and also we don't always have to feel separated and be put in categories. That was the point. I don't even like her music so I'm not here to defend her. It's just that I don't get it why does she have to proclaime herself to be something or other - she should be able to say that she is herself and that she sings about her feelings, worm and fuzzy or not. In the grand scheme of things, we should all be ONE, and we should be able to be together and accept our differences, and from that perspective, everything that is separating us, and turning us against eachother seems like a little box (and I am not talking about feminism in particular but about the tendency to say we belong to this or that and everything that is outside is not ok). 🤗
Omg yes the sad girl thing could be so harmful like how everyone idolized characters like Effy and Cassie from skins (which I feel like go hand in hand with Lana del ray and the general tumblr sad girl aesthetic) it was just so bad and harmful
I totally agree, it romanticised eating disorders and mental health problems.
@@Emma-zz2vo i totally remember the thinspo and diet tips
@@Emma-zz2vo the whole 60s marketing cigs to women shtick doesn't help. (nicotine curbs appetite so big tobacco went in hard for women who wanted to be/stay skinny)
@@littlegreenclementine I never knew that. So sad that marketing strategies play off of women's insecurities. The damage it causes, and all for what? to sell more products ;(
@@lovedives yes I remember this. I actually got really sucked into the thinspo movement, if I were to go back to my 'likes' from around that time they would all be of tiny delicate looking girls with thigh gaps. Teens are so impressionable, I mean I probably still carry with me some of those diet tips. It was actually a really dark part of the internet now that I think about it.
i hate how people think she has a 'persona'. it just shows your knowledge of her is shallow
and as a latino - no she didnt """culturally appropiated"""" anything on tropico
marina is a great example of persona creation and disassembly. think of electra heart, the housewife persona. she dismantled that very successfully and moved on.
She doesn’t sing about hopelessness lol that song ends with “but I have it. Yea I have it” she has hope she is sooo positive and happy. She simply expressed the darker sides of her life that we all experience in a dramatic way.
Immediately knew this video was biased asf when that was so purposely cut out
she talks about sylvia plath i don't see how it would convey happiness but ok art is subjective
The Sylvia Plath part is something I was drawn to before I knew of LDR or understood poetry. I think she is comparing and contrasting between her two inner selves. Like her lyrics that pop up “war in my mind” the duality experienced by everyone.But specifically her as a woman who is viewed as unstable or “the sad girl” influencer for glamorizing things that were already glamorized long before her so why does she have to take so much heat/blame? Causing her to maybe feels it’s difficult for her to have hope. Maybe because she doesn’t want to let herself down again or maybe because she knows showing hopefulness and happiness will (like it did) cause her to be picked apart. As if she wasn’t allowed to evolve through the 10 years since she hit most mainstream music (correct if wrong) the same way Taylor Swift evolved. Humans (myself included) create the persona I think more than the artist because we need something to attach the artist to that makes sense to us or makes us comfortable and when the artist changes as one does regardless of their talents/trade, the fans become confused and feel a sense of betrayal. However it seems to settle down as the artist does interviews explaining their change in style or whatever change it is. The artist may gain or lose fans here and there. So I think again Sylvia Plath is known for committing suicide in her oven and the multiple attempts prior to that. But that IS NOT SYLVIA PLATH that is the archetype society created about her. Now I think Lana relates to that because lana’s music isn’t necessarily always a reflection of who she is. I mean Billie Eilish has that song about killing her lover and having a stomach ache after and explains her and her brother “like to makeup things and pretend wonder, I always had really bad stomach aches” (bad paraphrasing read in article) so if we were to judge Billie from that ONE SONG we’d think she’s a murderer! Yet we know it is not a representation of who she is. The truth is none of us know who any of these artists are, unless you’re close with them and have a relationship to them outside of their art or what they show to the world.
Dude mina’s communication skills are really up there, her pitch tempo and articulation is perfect and she explains everything perfectly wtf my spoken assignment dream lolz
I think some people dont actually realize that she is not just an artist who portraits depressed, melancholic women and such. Her music is deeply meaningfull and she is so hardworking, talented thus should be appreciated.
lol
@@umuti17 King of nothingness. Literally the dirt on a public bathroom floor has more relevance than your replies.
the legend has posted again 😌
Can we just allow someone to be themselves and express themselves?
that's illegal now apparently
@@nicoalbarn yeah FBI open Up!!!
Nah
but what about her saying she doesn't have a persona??
@@crimsonmatter then she just expresses whatever type of persone she feels like at the time
Fun fact I guess: Lana del Rey literally means “king’s wool” in Spanish
Edit: I put on the word “literally” so it comes across better
yesss but it's for a diff reason!!!
Not really. "Del Rey" it's just a last name but in Spanish we add "del or de" sometimes to last names but it doesn't have a translation. If that makes any sense I don't really know how to explain it lol
@@justhegirlathome ik im Colombian so I talk Spanish but u can search her Wikipedia 💗
@Anna 😍🦶
kinda but like the others said del rey is just a name
The thing about lanas music is also that shes so good at expressing her hurt in such a beautiful way that even though you dont have to have had the same thing happen to you, you can still relate. I remember I started listening to her a lot when i was avout 13/14 goinn throught some heavy shit alongside puberty and her music healed me so much because i felt it was okay to cry and feel bad and just kind of had a place to express it
Part of art and being an artist is to freely express yourself, and to shame Lana for her music -her so called “glamorization of abuse” is just b.s. Hurt, pain, grief, unhappiness in relationships, pseudo-happiness from manipulation within those relationships, and a whole slew of other tough things in love and life are all real-life experiences that we all go through. Domestic abuse happens, and yes, sometimes you think it’s love. And it is perfectly okay to admit that. Lana just happens to have the talent of transposing these tough experiences into song. And even with this said, most people’s analysis of Lana is so surface level and basic-minded. Especially in an era where mental health is at the forefront of everyone’s conscience...how f’ed up is it, and how hypocritical is it, that Lana gets hung dry for the unhappiness she has experienced, that she so bravely shares with the world through her music?
thank you so much for this
Eloquent
Not particularly related to the vid but re: the $600 dress, a lot of brands don’t just gift their clothes to celebs, the brands pay them to wear them. Usually big bucks if it’s for a red carpet too. Lana has her questionable moments to say the least lol but I also like that she wore a dress from the mall & was open abt it.
the nostalgia with the old tumblr screenshots omg
also the struggles of teenage years is on point (especially when the realization of omnipresent patriarchy hit me like a brick back then)
Wow the comments are crazy in here. I'm a Lana stan and I do relate to her music since I was a sugar baby between 19-24 and I have dealt with a lot of abuse. With that said, I did enjoy this critique even if I don't agree everything in it.
I'm glad you brought up that Lolita from the hood comment though. As a woman of color who grew up in the hood where I had to dodge predatory grown men at 11 with no protection, that comment bothered me. Especially since Lana grew up rich, went to boarding school and I have seen too many white girls with that background in my real life who used to fetishize "hood life."
I agree. I lived with a roommate who was a high end call girl and she was a sugar baby too with glamorous friends who were all in that circle. They always had that Lana del Rey thing going on and I knew of her from them.
I mean she was sent to a boarding school because she suffered from alcoholism at the age of 14
@lev Exactly
I agree. Just because you like her music and disagree with parts of the video, doesn't mean you can't listen to the critique.
Where did you meet the sugar daddies