I can't stand YA fiction. The idea that this one teenage girl who's super special and a super hyper badass just because and has 4 different special boys fawning over her. God I hate it, please tear more YA books apart
"It's like a character can't just be a character anymore." YES! That's exactly it sadly. The farther down the marginalized pyramid your character falls the less they are aloud to just be a character. Every character is seen either as an extension of the authors point of view, or they are an entire group personified. It's no way to write a character, there's just no way to build an interesting, believable character with this collectivist mindset. It's why I recently deleted my tumblr account. This mentality was starting to infect my own characters and stories, and it was getting so bad I was actually getting depressed and considered giving up on writing. I'd recommend any young authors on the site leave as fast as you can. It does no good in the long run.
Aimée Laurent I've been hiting a literary bump in which I can't find any good books ( my school library sucks and my town doesn't have public ones ) and I don't even know what to read any more sides fanfic
One of the YA books I read in my youth was "Swallows and Amazons". A great book and is realistic, but was written in a different era and politically incorrect. This YA done right.
I really appreciate your perspective on YA fiction. Have you ever considered writing your own stories? With your knowledge of the tropes, you could create some pretty unexpected plot twists and not just be another forgotten book on the shelves.
I feel like I kinda lucked out in that I totally missed the YA genre. I'm not even sure it existed when I started reading when I was 11, but the books I started out on were adult sci-fi and fantasy novels. i did read some stuff intended for teens after that, but I don't think they were YA as we know it now either.
I think the bechel test rant sounds good, I hate it too, also its pretty stupid scenes where women talk about men can build character. Say two girls are talking about how their dad is dying of cancer and one of them accepts it and the other one is in denile. Or a girl revealing her insecurities about her new relationship with a guy to her mom. Vs an approved bechel test scene where a villainess tells a damsel in distress her evil plan, their not talking about men but it sure as heck does nothing for the characters. Women not talking about men does not improve character writeing!
You bring up a ton of good points. I especially agree with you on the "I feel drawn to him" trope. The whole "bad boy adventure/rescue fantasy" stereotype is complete bullshit and detrimental for a young woman's mental (and by extension, physical) health. Stuff like this can become influential enough to convince girls to go out and purposely look for a guy who's a complete douchebag, which always results in her getting "stuck" in an abusive relationship. What these girls don't realize is that they're inadvertently rewarding shitty behavior while ignoring the good men who actually would treat them with respect and kindness. Extremely counter-productive to society.
Interestingly enough, the dumb original story I wrote in my senior year of high school passed the bechdel test without even trying because there hadn’t been any guy characters introduced at that one point. Also: I’d love to see an analysis of the YA novel female characters, the protagonists, side characters, and villains. And also: what your tips are for writing better male characters (or better characters in general, like some in-depth on character elasticity for example.)
Another case of, "thank god TNiS gives us the scoop on how this YA world works, so we don't have to read or see them". I get your meaning how it all connects to "Twilight"; that's when the world changed forever..like other poor souls, I was dragged to it in '08, it's success created a firestorm of clones..we still haven't recovered.
"Standard YA Male Character" might make a good villain actually. I usually avoid YA fiction so does anyone have any recommendations for what's popular these days? I need to kidnap a few male leads.
Oh, its a good book. It talks about the 1930's drought in America where it focuses on a family's struggle to sell their belongings and leave to California for a better life. The family along with thousands of other families living in tents face discrimination.
We see a proliferation of immature, insecure and possessive characters finding the perfect pet to pander to all their wishes at the drop of a hat. The irony is they think those females are powerful.
There's probably not enough material for a whole video, but the antagonist telling the protagonist "we're not quite different, you and I" when there's _no substantial similarities between the two_ makes me groan every time.
I've been a big fan of Star Trek in the past but you can really see the difference in character creation in that show and others now. Character diversity is super pushed now as a marketing must, which wouldn't be bad for some projects, but now it's superficial stuff that matters and less so what's in the character and diversity in their thoughts and manners
Brandon Roberts We're having a meeting at 5 to figure out a plan to get past those pesky ideologues at google and oppress all the women of RUclips, the harrasment strategy isn't panning out. I've just refilled the humidor, got a fresh case of Glennfidich and I rented scarface you in?
I am going to write a sci-fi novel about an human general who has an internal conflict between following military orders and the desire to revenge the enslavement of his family by aliens.
+kevlarandchrome Are there a way to self-publish my future book? This premise will probably trigger very much the SJWs who dominate the big book publishing industry. Also the book the book will contain the theme of patriotism and a subtle satyre of modern far-left politics.
Look into Amazon. I know guys like Styxhexenhammer666 publish through them. From what I recall, they've got a full self publishing set up over there, possibly including editorial services. That's probably where I'd try first. Good luck in your writing endeavors.
I think YA fiction character writing actually needs to suck in order for the genre to exist. The target audience seems to need to identify as the main character, so to maximize the audience both hero and villain need to be as bland and vacuous as possible in order to ensure the projection holds. A good example of this is the twilight series: the characters are completely void of any defining characteristics, except for their general like/dislike of the main character. This enables the mostly teenage girls to identify them as the crush/bf/rival with themselves as the centerpoint of the happening.
I stopped reading YA fiction when I was 15. 99% of it is trash to me. I know there's probably some gems but there's too much garbage to sift through for me.
Hey, since you're asking for suggestions on what videos you can make, I was wondering if you'd be interested in reviewing my YA horror novel. It's called "Thule" and it's about a psychic teenager getting drawn into some strange goings on at Wewelsburg castle. If you're interested, send me a private message :)
You seemed way more charismatic in this video. Keep up the great content. I would love to hear what you have to say about the steaming pile of squanch known as the 50 shades series.
Don't do it Skep! There's not enough bleach in the world for your brain after that! Not to mention that it's the worst, most abusive depiction of a BDSM relationship ever. Those books are clarion calls for pitchforks and torches in the kink community.
A joke from Futurama and satisfying women. A male character said "I love commitment and changing myself," and the main female lead responds"I want that one." Molding is why entertainment and creativity is dead.
Neal Shusterman's Unwind series and Arc of the Scythe series is actually pretty well written. The girl characters are always super independent and the male characters are extremely round. I really recommend you check out his work!
I feel drawn to Skep-chan. I recently read my first YA novel in a long time. It was Sword and Verse. Boy was that a train-wreck. They set up this really interesting world where literacy is only allowed to the people who are enslaving this other group of people, with yet another written language on top of that for the aristocracy. What do they do with it? They make it into a love story between one of the slave girls who becomes the teacher for future Kings and the Prince. Oh, and they threw in a rebel group of the escaped slaves to add some spice to the love story. Ultimately the main character caused all of her own problems. When I finished the book I was just floored with how badly the author handled the plot. Why have the characters fix what they caused? Just have a god do all the work. As a plus, all of the prejudice against her people is suddenly gone too because she's that god's new high priest or something like that. Just awful.
YES! my novel passed the begtail test for both male and female I mean it make sense considering I have a whole scene about the MC and her gay friend arguing over "if banana stuck on the wall is considered ART" If you want to know the answer, than they let their pet parrot decide, since the parrot attacked and ate the banana from the wal they concluded that to understand art is beyond our mortal capabilities. I know, deep stuff. 😂 (though my favorite scene is still the one in which the MC female stright up confessed her love to the MC male on their first meeting, 🤣🤣🤣 in the most hilearious of ways.)
You make some really good points and I whole heartedly agree, but i don't think there should be a push for change. fandoms, like gaming, are being eroded by SJW's because they don't comply with their ideological standards. I would hate to do the same thing to another fandom. P.S. I'm not accusing you of doing this at all. I just thought it was worth mentioning.
I think the girls, women love the villains. I do as I want to be one as a fantasy as I'm not in real life. I'm a bit too old for the sparkly vampires though I get what your saying.
You know what, the story I’m writing has three female characters and one male character (in the main group). I kinda feel like doing a bait and switch and making it seem super feminist, but not at all. I mean, the main character’s little sister DOES get raped by the villain, so... (by raped, I mean actual rape and statutory rape. He’s in his thirties, she’s fifteen)
I noticed a stunning lack of the term "Mary Sue" in this video. Your mention of YA novels violating a "male" Bechdel test, and your converse dislike of the Bechdel test can be reconciled by pinning the dislike of the YA tropes you mentioned on the "Mary Sue" style of writing, and then accusing any of these YA authors of a type of hypocrisy if they also happen to subscribe to the "Bechdel test" style of writing.
This stuff is just generally junk food literature, fun but not healthy. Of course not everyone likes junk food, or the same junk food, but lots do and so it makes money.
Most YA novels are shite period. Brandon Sanderson avoids graphic sex but has plenty of action deception etc. I don't consider his stuff YA at all just because he's very prudish when it comes to sex. I love Mistborn and Stormlight. I've also come to enjoy The Warded Man ( the painted man outside of the USA )though the authors name escapes me ATM. The only YA that I've liked recently was a book called Hunter by Mercedes Lackey, though I hear the sequels aren't as good. Not that Hunter was the most amazing book I've ever read. I just thought it was OK for a YA novel. Books don't need to have tons of graphic sex and violence to be good, but I find most YA novels to be piss poor watered down versions of better work. It insults the intelligence of young adults to write such shite. If your kid goes to public school,chances are they can handle a bit more edgy content than you give them credit for.
Hey Mr. Constructive criticism over here coming at ya. Whenever you make video essays like these, always try to make 'em a tad more scripted like, as well as using specific examples. When you talk about a certain male character doing something, name the book and give a tad more context. This helps cement your point a tad better. If the idea is to ramble about a topic, that's coolio; but if you aren't presenting case studies, insert a little humour to remind your viewers to take it with a pinch of salt. Thanks
I can't stand YA fiction. The idea that this one teenage girl who's super special and a super hyper badass just because and has 4 different special boys fawning over her.
God I hate it, please tear more YA books apart
YA fiction just seems like a way to keep young adults thinking like children.
"It's like a character can't just be a character anymore."
YES! That's exactly it sadly. The farther down the marginalized pyramid your character falls the less they are aloud to just be a character. Every character is seen either as an extension of the authors point of view, or they are an entire group personified. It's no way to write a character, there's just no way to build an interesting, believable character with this collectivist mindset. It's why I recently deleted my tumblr account. This mentality was starting to infect my own characters and stories, and it was getting so bad I was actually getting depressed and considered giving up on writing. I'd recommend any young authors on the site leave as fast as you can. It does no good in the long run.
Aimée Laurent I've been hiting a literary bump in which I can't find any good books ( my school library sucks and my town doesn't have public ones ) and I don't even know what to read any more sides fanfic
In Terminator Gynesis, they made Sara Connor tell Kyle when he came back thru time to save her, "I didn't need saving".
Same crap as you speak of.
One of the YA books I read in my youth was "Swallows and Amazons". A great book and is realistic, but was written in a different era and politically incorrect. This YA done right.
I really appreciate your perspective on YA fiction. Have you ever considered writing your own stories? With your knowledge of the tropes, you could create some pretty unexpected plot twists and not just be another forgotten book on the shelves.
Love how you express a conflict between ideas we are supposed to swallow and how they fail to tally with experience and common sense.
I feel like I kinda lucked out in that I totally missed the YA genre. I'm not even sure it existed when I started reading when I was 11, but the books I started out on were adult sci-fi and fantasy novels. i did read some stuff intended for teens after that, but I don't think they were YA as we know it now either.
Also, on the Bechdel test, the movie "Showgirls" passes it.
+Mimi Sardinia haha true. I still hate that test though
I LOVE THIS VIDEO.
Also, the Bechdel Test is trash.
I think the bechel test rant sounds good, I hate it too, also its pretty stupid scenes where women talk about men can build character. Say two girls are talking about how their dad is dying of cancer and one of them accepts it and the other one is in denile. Or a girl revealing her insecurities about her new relationship with a guy to her mom. Vs an approved bechel test scene where a villainess tells a damsel in distress her evil plan, their not talking about men but it sure as heck does nothing for the characters. Women not talking about men does not improve character writeing!
the only thing you have to know about the bechdal test is that plenty of literary classics fail it, but two girls and a cup passes with flying colors.
Just a reminder, the Bechel test was actually started as a joke. Also almost all lesbian porn passes the Bechel Test.
LOL! good point
I hope your audience grows. You're not an idiot and you're willing to speak out.
You bring up a ton of good points. I especially agree with you on the "I feel drawn to him" trope. The whole "bad boy adventure/rescue fantasy" stereotype is complete bullshit and detrimental for a young woman's mental (and by extension, physical) health. Stuff like this can become influential enough to convince girls to go out and purposely look for a guy who's a complete douchebag, which always results in her getting "stuck" in an abusive relationship. What these girls don't realize is that they're inadvertently rewarding shitty behavior while ignoring the good men who actually would treat them with respect and kindness. Extremely counter-productive to society.
Interestingly enough, the dumb original story I wrote in my senior year of high school passed the bechdel test without even trying because there hadn’t been any guy characters introduced at that one point.
Also: I’d love to see an analysis of the YA novel female characters, the protagonists, side characters, and villains.
And also: what your tips are for writing better male characters (or better characters in general, like some in-depth on character elasticity for example.)
Another case of, "thank god TNiS gives us the scoop on how this YA world works, so we don't have to read or see them". I get your meaning how it all connects to "Twilight"; that's when the world changed forever..like other poor souls, I was dragged to it in '08, it's success created a firestorm of clones..we still haven't recovered.
"Standard YA Male Character" might make a good villain actually. I usually avoid YA fiction so does anyone have any recommendations for what's popular these days? I need to kidnap a few male leads.
This is why older books are my favorite reads, The Grapes of Wrath is my pick for personal favorite.
+MrThorn hmm i still haven't read that yet
Oh, its a good book. It talks about the 1930's drought in America where it focuses on a family's struggle to sell their belongings and leave to California for a better life. The family along with thousands of other families living in tents face discrimination.
Wasn't the game Heart of Darkness inspired Far Cry 2?
Why would you read a book about piles?
We see a proliferation of immature, insecure and possessive characters finding the perfect pet to pander to all their wishes at the drop of a hat. The irony is they think those females are powerful.
There's probably not enough material for a whole video, but the antagonist telling the protagonist "we're not quite different, you and I" when there's _no substantial similarities between the two_ makes me groan every time.
I've been a big fan of Star Trek in the past but you can really see the difference in character creation in that show and others now. Character diversity is super pushed now as a marketing must, which wouldn't be bad for some projects, but now it's superficial stuff that matters and less so what's in the character and diversity in their thoughts and manners
Glad you know the score and you are doing male characters first, the patriarchy approves *puffs cigar*
+Fredro Starr lol thanks patriarchy
ThyNameIsSkepticism You are welcome. You have earned 1 benevolent sexism, use it wisely.
Brandon Roberts We're having a meeting at 5 to figure out a plan to get past those pesky ideologues at google and oppress all the women of RUclips, the harrasment strategy isn't panning out. I've just refilled the humidor, got a fresh case of Glennfidich and I rented scarface you in?
Fredro Starr PICKLE RICK
>*puffs cigar*
Das gay.
I am going to write a sci-fi novel about an human general who has an internal conflict between following military orders and the desire to revenge the enslavement of his family by aliens.
I'd read that, seems like a good premise.
+Herra Kvasir Rex Getārum Gothōrumque Romanōrumque good idea
+kevlarandchrome Are there a way to self-publish my future book? This premise will probably trigger very much the SJWs who dominate the big book publishing industry. Also the book the book will contain the theme of patriotism and a subtle satyre of modern far-left politics.
Look into Amazon. I know guys like Styxhexenhammer666 publish through them. From what I recall, they've got a full self publishing set up over there, possibly including editorial services. That's probably where I'd try first. Good luck in your writing endeavors.
Brandon Roberts It took two months to worldbuild. I don't spoil the real bad guys, but they behave similar to David Icke reptilians.
I was drawn to him......through magnetism for I am a hammer and he Magneto.
I think YA fiction character writing actually needs to suck in order for the genre to exist. The target audience seems to need to identify as the main character, so to maximize the audience both hero and villain need to be as bland and vacuous as possible in order to ensure the projection holds.
A good example of this is the twilight series: the characters are completely void of any defining characteristics, except for their general like/dislike of the main character. This enables the mostly teenage girls to identify them as the crush/bf/rival with themselves as the centerpoint of the happening.
+Kekistani Aeronautics and Space Administration I recognize that, but I'll still complain about that XD
I stopped reading YA fiction when I was 15. 99% of it is trash to me. I know there's probably some gems but there's too much garbage to sift through for me.
Hey, since you're asking for suggestions on what videos you can make, I was wondering if you'd be interested in reviewing my YA horror novel. It's called "Thule" and it's about a psychic teenager getting drawn into some strange goings on at Wewelsburg castle. If you're interested, send me a private message :)
There's such a good sense of humor baked into your musical taste.
You seemed way more charismatic in this video. Keep up the great content. I would love to hear what you have to say about the steaming pile of squanch known as the 50 shades series.
+Quintus Aurelius Symmachus haha sure XD
Don't do it Skep! There's not enough bleach in the world for your brain after that! Not to mention that it's the worst, most abusive depiction of a BDSM relationship ever. Those books are clarion calls for pitchforks and torches in the kink community.
kevlarandchrome I'm not even into that stuff and I hated the books. They are so friggin bad for a multitude of reasons.
I'm a YA junkie, but I agree with everything you said. Great video!
A joke from Futurama and satisfying women. A male character said "I love commitment and changing myself," and the main female lead responds"I want that one."
Molding is why entertainment and creativity is dead.
If you are looking for some awesome books to review Terry Pratchet novels are excellent, full of awesome characters.
Neal Shusterman's Unwind series and Arc of the Scythe series is actually pretty well written. The girl characters are always super independent and the male characters are extremely round. I really recommend you check out his work!
It isn't just YA adult fiction - yoy've put your finger on something media-wide.
I feel drawn to Skep-chan.
I recently read my first YA novel in a long time. It was Sword and Verse. Boy was that a train-wreck. They set up this really interesting world where literacy is only allowed to the people who are enslaving this other group of people, with yet another written language on top of that for the aristocracy. What do they do with it? They make it into a love story between one of the slave girls who becomes the teacher for future Kings and the Prince. Oh, and they threw in a rebel group of the escaped slaves to add some spice to the love story. Ultimately the main character caused all of her own problems. When I finished the book I was just floored with how badly the author handled the plot. Why have the characters fix what they caused? Just have a god do all the work. As a plus, all of the prejudice against her people is suddenly gone too because she's that god's new high priest or something like that. Just awful.
my new pseudonym, - broody McButtface
YES! my novel passed the begtail test for both male and female
I mean it make sense considering I have a whole scene about the MC and her gay friend arguing over "if banana stuck on the wall is considered ART"
If you want to know the answer, than they let their pet parrot decide, since the parrot attacked and ate the banana from the wal they concluded that to understand art is beyond our mortal capabilities. I know, deep stuff. 😂
(though my favorite scene is still the one in which the MC female stright up confessed her love to the MC male on their first meeting, 🤣🤣🤣 in the most hilearious of ways.)
Xanth. That is a YA fiction that no one talks about with strong male characters. Oh wait, written for the puns, not for female empowerment.
You make some really good points and I whole heartedly agree, but i don't think there should be a push for change. fandoms, like gaming, are being eroded by SJW's because they don't comply with their ideological standards. I would hate to do the same thing to another fandom. P.S. I'm not accusing you of doing this at all. I just thought it was worth mentioning.
Is that...jeremy renner?
Show Girls passes The Bechdel Test.
There. That's something you know.
On a very unrelated note, what's your major?
Broody McButtface ... Sounds like a winner to me :)
I think the girls, women love the villains. I do as I want to be one as a fantasy as I'm not in real life. I'm a bit too old for the sparkly vampires though I get what your saying.
You know what, the story I’m writing has three female characters and one male character (in the main group). I kinda feel like doing a bait and switch and making it seem super feminist, but not at all. I mean, the main character’s little sister DOES get raped by the villain, so... (by raped, I mean actual rape and statutory rape. He’s in his thirties, she’s fifteen)
more book related videos!!
I noticed a stunning lack of the term "Mary Sue" in this video. Your mention of YA novels violating a "male" Bechdel test, and your converse dislike of the Bechdel test can be reconciled by pinning the dislike of the YA tropes you mentioned on the "Mary Sue" style of writing, and then accusing any of these YA authors of a type of hypocrisy if they also happen to subscribe to the "Bechdel test" style of writing.
This stuff is just generally junk food literature, fun but not healthy. Of course not everyone likes junk food, or the same junk food, but lots do and so it makes money.
PICKLE RICK!
+n3rdm4n yaaaaahhh!
Most YA novels are shite period. Brandon Sanderson avoids graphic sex but has plenty of action deception etc. I don't consider his stuff YA at all just because he's very prudish when it comes to sex. I love Mistborn and Stormlight. I've also come to enjoy The Warded Man ( the painted man outside of the USA )though the authors name escapes me ATM. The only YA that I've liked recently was a book called Hunter by Mercedes Lackey, though I hear the sequels aren't as good. Not that Hunter was the most amazing book I've ever read. I just thought it was OK for a YA novel. Books don't need to have tons of graphic sex and violence to be good, but I find most YA novels to be piss poor watered down versions of better work. It insults the intelligence of young adults to write such shite. If your kid goes to public school,chances are they can handle a bit more edgy content than you give them credit for.
So are you just going to merge your two channels?
A clockwork orange is a great book and an even better movie. I pity the Twilight generation.
My favourite YA fiction author was Charles Bukowski.
E V I L C O R P O R A T I O N S trope
Yes.
I agreed with you am guy who read some ya novels. It be cool not good looking guy get girl
You're so qt!
But I Mostly like your points. True fact.
Hey Mr. Constructive criticism over here coming at ya.
Whenever you make video essays like these, always try to make 'em a tad more scripted like, as well as using specific examples.
When you talk about a certain male character doing something, name the book and give a tad more context. This helps cement your point a tad better.
If the idea is to ramble about a topic, that's coolio; but if you aren't presenting case studies, insert a little humour to remind your viewers to take it with a pinch of salt.
Thanks
Wow, you're the first brown woman with English accent who isn't a communist.