Let us not think of these bureaucrats back then as heroes. IC 814 was a classic case of incompetency on the part of RAW & IB back then and we are still paying the price for the same. Omar Saaed, Masood Azhar and Ahmed Zargar have a direct role in Daniel Pearl Killings, 9/11, 26/11, Pulwama attacks dn Kashmiri militancy, moreover they are still healthy and active and possibly loading many more. So Wise takes their words to understand the lax which continues to plague our bureaucracy today. Thank God today we have a fairly strong government at centre which has over the years with the help of right men at the top (Doval) have improved our intelligence and counter insurgency system.
Indian security and intelligence was as slack and incompetent then as it is today. I was a lecturer at the time at a private tertiary institution in Melbourne Australia at the time. I needed to get in touch with Indians foreign minister and it was near impossible. Several of my students were unlawfully arrested by Australian immigration claiming they were in breach of their student visa conditions. They were not. I was asked by these 20 students and the management of the institution to represent them to the Indian foreign office because the Australian government was unsympathetic to these students inspite of their not having breached Australian laws. We obtained the direct contacts of each of the following Indian ministers: They were Jaswant Sigh. Murli Manohar Jysohi, LK Advani and someone called Pradeep Kumar Jain with a designation of Additional Private Secretary to one of the ministers. There was a young woman by the name of Manjula who provided all of the sensitive information of ministerial movements at various times of the day and the location at any time of the day of each of these ministers. Phone numbers: 11 378 2698- 11 3714 230- 11 3387085 for Advani we got 11 3401 2462- 3384639 301 4686 and 3782 387- There were more. We got to speak with Murli Manohar Jyoshi and LK Advani all of whom told us they would help but there was an international and domestic crisis that being the Hijack of the Indian Airlines jet. We decided to explore India's security a little further as this seemed bizarre in these circumstances when there was a crisis of such magnitude. India would at least demonstrate to the world that it was safe and its security competent. We knew the whereabouts o each of these 3 ministers. Where we wanted to speak to them and claimed to be from the media, no one questioned our credentials . Where we said we needed immediately to speak to a minister, their secretaries immediately offered to locate them for us, or to tell us where they were. We offered a bigger bait by saying "we are very grateful to you for your assistance. If you need anything from us in Australia for your children please let us know". We got two takes on that offer. One a relative of Murli Manohar Jyoshi, the other from an Advani deputy. " yes we would appreciate but wait first let us assist you". If Pakistan or the Taleban wanted a fall back position, they would have been able to identify and Indian minister or three and kidnap or assassinate a minister in revenge. Security was bad then as it is today. India makes tall claims about its James Bonds like Ajit Doval but can show no evidence of it. The Pakistanis would have had better intelligence than we as untrained intelligence or security persons did to have worked out how to terrorize the Indians. Indian security leaks because Indians are by and large greedy and corrupt. I am Indian but I can't get over the entire culture of Indian security and government even today. Anyone who doubts our story can double check with the woman Manjula who worked there. We spoke to each of the ministers as well. You have Major Gaurav talking up the Indian army and its intelligence. It was a BJP government then as it is now.
I read somewhere that only forks were given with the imprint 'Ariana Airlines'.The passengers had to rack their brains to find out where they were located using the words on the fork.
This is actually a successful rescue compared to any other event like Entebbe.I think Indian humour helped.If there is a way I could provide more potential events let me know please.
Read my posting above and you will know the real worth of Doval and any other intelligence operative in India. They are cumulatively below zero in value to the nation. India's security agencies need a complete overhaul instead of new expensive equipment hey can't use.
Further to my comments below, we have also socially hijacked the contact details of the Chief of Army Staff of the Indian army Gen. MM Narvane. now I won' provide the intimate details we managed to secure and how we did it but India needs a major overhaul of its defence establishment. These are paper soldiers, paper tigers and paper Generals. Ajit Doval is perhaps the most leaky of them all.
Mr Shashi Bhushan Singh Tomar from R&AW was on flight that day. It has been debated widely that decisions in delhi were made keeping in mind 2 important people in flight that day. One was Mr Tomar as i mentioned, trivia for ppl in comments, who was the second person. (hint- Switzerland govt was involved)
We don't want Bloodshed ???? . And what happened in Mumbai later... Complete failure.... That night Vajpayee ji lost all respect. Even the day he died I did not forgive him.
Mumbai happened during Manmohan Singh(Sonia Gandhi) Govt ... Bajpayee made a biggest mistake by thinking that there need to be peace between india and Pakistan. He should have realised that Pakistan is Muslim country and Muslim don't know peace and democracy
These guys are not serious about handling this issues Civilians cannot be in crisis management group CMG should be exclusively by armed forces, intelligence services
![Leadership Talk with Shri Ajit Doval, NSA, Govt. of India [MHRD Innovation Cell- IIC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FxQN98gy1Ec/mqdefault.jpg)
Let us not think of these bureaucrats back then as heroes. IC 814 was a classic case of incompetency on the part of RAW & IB back then and we are still paying the price for the same. Omar Saaed, Masood Azhar and Ahmed Zargar have a direct role in Daniel Pearl Killings, 9/11, 26/11, Pulwama attacks dn Kashmiri militancy, moreover they are still healthy and active and possibly loading many more. So Wise takes their words to understand the lax which continues to plague our bureaucracy today. Thank God today we have a fairly strong government at centre which has over the years with the help of right men at the top (Doval) have improved our intelligence and counter insurgency system.
Doval was the one who mishandled the IC814..and "strong govt" is only for civil society.
Indian security and intelligence was as slack and incompetent then as it is today. I was a lecturer at the time at a private tertiary institution in Melbourne Australia at the time. I needed to get in touch with Indians foreign minister and it was near impossible. Several of my students were unlawfully arrested by Australian immigration claiming they were in breach of their student visa conditions. They were not.
I was asked by these 20 students and the management of the institution to represent them to the Indian foreign office because the Australian government was unsympathetic to these students inspite of their not having breached Australian laws.
We obtained the direct contacts of each of the following Indian ministers: They were Jaswant Sigh. Murli Manohar Jysohi, LK Advani and someone called Pradeep Kumar Jain with a designation of Additional Private Secretary to one of the ministers.
There was a young woman by the name of Manjula who provided all of the sensitive information of ministerial movements at various times of the day and the location at any time of the day of each of these ministers.
Phone numbers: 11 378 2698- 11 3714 230- 11 3387085
for Advani we got 11 3401 2462- 3384639 301 4686 and 3782 387- There were more. We got to speak with Murli Manohar Jyoshi and LK Advani all of whom told us they would help but there was an international and domestic crisis that being the Hijack of the Indian Airlines jet.
We decided to explore India's security a little further as this seemed bizarre in these circumstances when there was a crisis of such magnitude. India would at least demonstrate to the world that it was safe and its security competent. We knew the whereabouts o each of these 3 ministers. Where we wanted to speak to them and claimed to be from the media, no one questioned our credentials .
Where we said we needed immediately to speak to a minister, their secretaries immediately offered to locate them for us, or to tell us where they were. We offered a bigger bait by saying "we are very grateful to you for your assistance. If you need anything from us in Australia for your children please let us know". We got two takes on that offer. One a relative of Murli Manohar Jyoshi, the other from an Advani deputy. " yes we would appreciate but wait first let us assist you".
If Pakistan or the Taleban wanted a fall back position, they would have been able to identify and Indian minister or three and kidnap or assassinate a minister in revenge. Security was bad then as it is today. India makes tall claims about its James Bonds like Ajit Doval but can show no evidence of it.
The Pakistanis would have had better intelligence than we as untrained intelligence or security persons did to have worked out how to terrorize the Indians. Indian security leaks because Indians are by and large greedy and corrupt. I am Indian but I can't get over the entire culture of Indian security and government even today.
Anyone who doubts our story can double check with the woman Manjula who worked there. We spoke to each of the ministers as well.
You have Major Gaurav talking up the Indian army and its intelligence. It was a BJP government then as it is now.
I read somewhere that only forks were given with the imprint 'Ariana Airlines'.The passengers had to rack their brains to find out where they were located using the words on the fork.
This is actually a successful rescue compared to any other event like Entebbe.I think Indian humour helped.If there is a way I could provide more potential events let me know please.
Excellent discussion. My compliments for the moderator Ravi ji, and for panelists Mr. AS Dulat, Mr. Anand Arni, Mr. UB Bhatt.
The number of times Ajit Doval got mentioned...... Speaks volumes about his capabilities
Read my posting above and you will know the real worth of Doval and any other intelligence operative in India. They are cumulatively below zero in value to the nation. India's security agencies need a complete overhaul instead of new expensive equipment hey can't use.
Further to my comments below, we have also socially hijacked the contact details of the Chief of Army Staff of the Indian army Gen. MM Narvane. now I won' provide the intimate details we managed to secure and how we did it but India needs a major overhaul of its defence establishment. These are paper soldiers, paper tigers and paper Generals. Ajit Doval is perhaps the most leaky of them all.
Mr Shashi Bhushan Singh Tomar from R&AW was on flight that day. It has been debated widely that decisions in delhi were made keeping in mind 2 important people in flight that day. One was Mr Tomar as i mentioned, trivia for ppl in comments, who was the second person. (hint- Switzerland govt was involved)
De La Rue Giori,
More of us need some form of military training. In such situations nobody from the ground can help.
Finally I got the chance to listen the horrible story LIVE by them ...
We don't want Bloodshed ????
.
And what happened in Mumbai later...
Complete failure....
That night Vajpayee ji lost all respect. Even the day he died I did not forgive him.
fear of bloodshed? bloodshed already started when they killed that unfortunate passenger
Mumbai happened during Manmohan Singh(Sonia Gandhi) Govt ... Bajpayee made a biggest mistake by thinking that there need to be peace between india and Pakistan. He should have realised that Pakistan is Muslim country and Muslim don't know peace and democracy
Biggest blot on our capability to fight hijackers. At Amritsar our forces could not enter the aircraft.
Raise a controversial issue, make a story, and screw people’s head. That’s “Media” nowadays
59:40: Sorry to point out. Rudy Pratap Singh is an incorrect name.
These guys are not serious about handling this issues
Civilians cannot be in crisis management group
CMG should be exclusively by armed forces, intelligence services
The hijacker had better senceof humanity than u ppl
How r u dealing with kashmiris