EV Challenges in 2024: The Struggles Are Real!
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Could this be the first ever episode of a new series where I read viewer mail and respond with my thoughts?
Context: Last week, I received an email from a viewer named John where he asked that I balance my messaging about EV's. He argued that while he generally liked my content, I was being too positive on EV's since they are not perfect and there are real challenges out there; especially here in early 2024. He claimed that if a novice EV prospect or owner watched my content, they would think everything is perfect out there. I want to thank John for his unvarnished feedback and perspective on my messaging. As a result of his email, I decided to film this podcast style video to share my thoughts on some of the challenges we as consumers are facing as well as the industry and manufacturers of EV's.
Let me know if you like this kind of format, as I will be happy to answer more viewer mail going forward. Perhaps I can make this a regular segment on the channel. Let me know your thoughts. I am thinking of calling the series "Curbside Matters". Having said that, what name would you all suggest?
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#EV #Tesla #Charging
I think the biggest obstacle to EV adoption is affordability. It doesn't matter how great a car or truck is if you can't afford to purchase one.
When I was shopping for a new car, I priced a similarly equipped Sentra, Civic, Impreza, and Model 3, and went with the Model 3 because it was the least expensive. The Inventory Model 3 out the door price was $29,900 after the referral ($500) federal ($7,500) and state ($2,250) credits. So not only was the out the door price less than the other cars, I also have saved $650 in gas in the first 6 months of ownership, and I will not have to pay for any oil changes.
If you factor in the likely service life of half a million miles and the greatly reduced maintenance and fuel costs, you really can’t afford NOT to buy a Tesla. That’s been my personal experience. My tires last as well as normal tires, brakes (with one foot driving) are good for 150,000 miles or more, fuel cost is 1/4 to 1/3 what I was paying before. And the warranty is outstanding. My 12 Volt battery just failed after 3 1/2 years and Tesla came out to my house and replaced it for free! The next battery will also be free ( 8 year warrantee). The technician also told me that Tesla is working on a 12V that will last a lot longer and to expect that next time around. What ICE company warrantees your 12 Volt battery?
Lightly used EVs are dirt cheap and way less expensive to run. Affordability is not the issue it once was.
You can get a lightly used Nissan Arya or VW id 4 in their mid and sometimes Top spec for like 29k. The values have plummeted not just for Tesla
Even with 10k in subsidies, affordability for most people includes resale value. That's the biggest reason mass adoption isn't happening. EVs lose value far more quickly than normal cars, for obvious reasons. The only reason this was not happening for a couple of years was because of supply issues caused by the lockdowns. So for corporate fleet buyers (the primary market for EVs) it was temporarily a no brainer financially. Now they are dumping these on the used market in the 10's of thousands, exacerbating the depreciation issue.
I think it’s important to understand that the current car crash is more than an EV thing. The OEM’s and dealers went upscale beyond the means of their customers several months ago and that inventory can’t be sold now. EV's are typically the most expensive of any product line, so they get disproportionately caught up in that, disregarding the FUD.
You mentioned the available inventory of EQS SUV's. That’s in a price range that's out of reach for 99.9% of the car buying public.
Our household's missions are best served by our seven year old LEAF for local runs and our three year old Honda Clarity PHEV for long trips.
What people don’t realize about charging is it may take me longer to charge on the road but when it comes to charging at home I save time as opposed to gassing up.
While true, that isn't how people tend to look at it -- even EV owners. Yes, being able to charge at home does prevent a 5-15 minute stop on your way home at a gas station, once or twice a week, when driving locally but typically you've got enough leisure time that it doesn't "cut into" time needed for other activities. It is more of an inconvenience.
By contrast, the idea of a road trip is you are typically on a leisure trip, where you have a limited amount of time and an hour charging cuts into "vacation" time at the destination. So, yes, you save time long term but it trading "low cost" time for "high cost" time; not a trade they are willing to make.
I do think there are solid arguments to help make that trade off acceptable, particularly if you have one of the faster charging EVs. Of course, it requires people realize that we, as Americans, have an unhealthy obsession with getting places as fast as possible and needing to be able to drive 8 hours without a stop. With an EV you will have to stop every couple of hours and, even with a fast charging car it will take 15 or more minutes. At the same time, if you can charge at over 200 kW, often the car will have more than enough charge before you can go to the bathroom and get any snacks you may want. And, because of the stops, you arrive at your destination far more rested and ready to do things, rather than feeling the need to crash because you expended all your energy on the long stint driving.
But remember, about 100 million Americans rent, and cannot charge at home.
@@davidnielson9139 I just got back from a road trip to South Florida and the car was ALWAYS ready to go at each stop before my pits stops for food, potty break were finished. EVERY TIME.
If anyone is driving under 250 miles daily and able to home charge….
you are light years ahead of any ICE vehicle. Basically a no brainer 😊.
EV will experience the normal growth headaches but eventually will be the standard within 10 years.
@@trex2092 And that is great but the issue is these ICE owners are objecting to the large number of stops. They'll tell you on a trip to South Florida they'll only need to stop once, not multiple stops. I'll grant you that they may not be completely honest with this but it is still more stops in an EV, and that extra hour is time away from their ability to start their vacation, or whatever the drive is for.
Also, I'm not saying they are right. And for many that drive ICE vehicles it isn't true, anyways. Parents with young kids will typically find themselves needing to stop every couple of hours, older drivers will often find they need to stop more, etc. Not to mention that it healthier, safer, and you arrive much more rested rather than fatigued from the long drive. But they still look at it that they should be able to drive 8 hours without stopping, even if they don't actually ever do that, and that they don't want to be forced to make the extra stops.
One thing of note is that since everyone is switching to NACS (J3400) I expect many are waiting for that switch along with interest rate issues & costs. I am getting a Mach E & just waiting for the port switch. Most of us just don't want to deal with adapters.
Tesla is also upgrading many of their chargers to include Magicdock (CCS adapter built into the dispenser).
Back in 2009 when the world was ending, the price of cars fell off a cliff. I saw deals back then that I regret not taking ($75k for a Ford GT). It's not just ev's crashing right now, all new vehicle sales are in a slump, interest rates, uncertain economy are taking their toll. If you're in the market for a vehicle today, you'll get a good deal. If you're looking to sell any 2 year old car. you'll take a big hit. It's not just an ev issue.
Excellent points
15 years ago?
One big hate is the charging time for EVs. I look at it collectively as EVs are truly time savers, however if you have home charging. With my ICE vehicle, I used to fill up every week and with premium fuel that costs about $100. Aside from EV cost savings in fuel, I filled up at Costco because it’s usually10 cents cheaper a gallon. Costco is neither on my way home nor on my way to work, so it’s an extra 15 -20 min. stop to fill up my car each week. Also, there are typically long lines at Costco gas stations which can take even more time. That’s approx 75 minutes per month of time multiplied times 52 weeks equals over 17 hours of time just fueling. I usually take 2 road trips a year for vacations and would have to take approx. an extra 35 minutes for charging for those trips. If you have home charging, EVs will save you way more time. Most people don’t choose the gas station on the way home.They drive to the station with cheaper gas which takes MORE time.
Exactly my experience, also filling up the Subaru at Costco. It's not a quick process and a good bit out of my way. Filling my Model Y now is simply pulling into my driveway or garage and hitting the "open port" button. Headlights go off, I walk about 5 feet and plug in. The car either starts charging or waits for the schedule, depending on the time of day. So simple and a huge time (and money) saver.
"Most people don’t choose the gas station on the way home.They drive to the station with cheaper gas which takes MORE time"
If you fill the gas tank once per week, and the cheaper gas saves you 4 dollars, why waste the time driving to and waiting at Costco?
For 200 dollars *per* *year* , go for convenience and time savings. Thats what I would do.
Well stated, you have good communication skills and also a problem with buying cars.
Thanks! I resemble that remark :)
That’s hilarious!
It’s not the, “it takes 45 minutes to charge a lightning on the road trip,” it is that “it takes 45 minutes to charge a lightning on the road trip and you have to do it for every 2 1/2 hours of driving.“. Also, the problem for EB mass adoption is the fact that a large percentage of the country lives either in apartments or old housing which cannot handle a proper level two charger. And once we do have mass adoption, what do you think happens to energy prices and the rates we pay for electricity.
Biggest appeal to EV for Me is powertrain. No EVAP, transmission, engine fluids, exhaust system etc.. Biggest mostly ignored challenge is insurance cost is 50-80% higher than ICE cars and finding a nearby repair shop.
I just had a drive motor failure 6 days before my warranty was up. It still drove but had no regen. Tesla had my car diagnosed and repaired within 3 days from putting my request through the app. I was pretty impressed. Maplewood MN
Your information is appreciated, thank you. Loved the run of the two F150 from NJ to FL. Still smiling, best of wishes.
That was a great video but Kyle went a little crazy not using climate control Would be nice to.see.a.race.with a more.normal driving experience
I’ve had a Tesla Model 3 since 2019 and absolutely love it. But I wouldn’t even consider any other EV made for a host of reasons ranging from quality and service life to likelihood of the company even being in business in 10 years.
I would give Hyundai and Kia very good odds. Probably better than Toyota.
I don’t think your EV videos are all roses… I watched your Hertz experience!
18:47 I’ve had three visits by a Tesla technician for four or five minor repair, adjustment or maintenance. Never a problem scheduling, though the first time there was a two or three week wait on a part. The most recent was for the recommended tire rotation.
Excellent video Dave! Regarding the sales slow down, I think the only thing I’d like to see somewhere, and that I haven’t been able to find, is an analysis of the EV sales slowdown relative to the slow down in the car market overall. I heard a lot of doom and gloom about EV sales in isolation but I’ve also heard, with far less fan fare I might add, that ICE car sales are in a slump as well. In both cases it seems to be a function of the higher interest rate environment we are in making the current pricing structure of all new vehicles unaffordable. So an analysis that was able to do a statistically valid comparison of both markets would be helpful to understand whether this is truly an EV slump or EVs are just getting caught in an overall market correction caused by automakers betting on a low interest rate environment to prop up sales of higher margin vehicles.
I think the relationship with EV's demand and prices are relative to the market based on my observation and data. For instance, we bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee L 2 years ago for $56k. It is worth $30k today.
Awesome video Dave. Great points, all relevant. It would be great to discuss these with people and field their questions at an EV meetup event like a National Drive Electric Week. We took our i4 to one last year and were disappointed with how there was one, literally one, couple who was there to learn about EVs and everyone else was a happy EV owner participating in the event or checking out others’ EVs. If there are questions or doubts then people should feel comfortable asking current owners questions.
We’ve actually had quite a few people come up to my wife and I over the years while charging and want to talk about our experiences with our EV. Most of the time it’s people like myself - retired or about to retire. People that own their own home and can set up charging in their garage and like to travel. If you’re not in a hurry while traveling, EV’s are great road trippers. At least our Model Y has been.
Rational presentations of EV life like this are rare! I enjoy your channel very much. I do want to add that the whole experiance of installing a home charging system was as daunting to us as any issues about adapting to driving an EV and just added to the angst.
We live in an older neighborhood. The electrician told us we would need to upgrade our breaker box, and our roof mast. The electric company had to replace the transformer on the power pole and run a new wire to our house. The total cost was $5253.00 . Fortunately we didn't have to pay for the transformer because it serves two other residences. If we did, it would have been another $5000. So coordinating this with the city, the electric company and the electrician took three months. Three months after that we got a rebate that covered all the costs. Whew!
I first purchased a Genesis GV60 Advanced in the summer of 2022 and really liked it. I realized earlier this year though with EVs losing value that I would rather lease one and let the manufacturer take the valuation risk. So I recently traded it in (while I still could get a decent value for it) for a lease on a BMW i4 xDrive40 with very significant incentives, discounts, etc (as opposed to when there were premiums on cars like this a year or so ago). I absolutely love this car, will enjoy driving it for 3 years and then see what the EV environment is then to see what is next for me.
Great topic Dave.
Next gen electrics should seal the deal:
Lower cost
Better range (true 300+ miles)
Faster charging.
My daughter had to pay $1,600 to have her cracked Model Y windshield replaced at The Tesla Service center in Knoxville, TN. Her auto insurance company suggested Safelight and they wouldn’t touch it. Now they are hoping the insurance company will at least reimburse some of the bill. Whew!
I had a similar experience ($1,200 at Tesla for a model 3 windshield replacement) but when I compared that to the $1,350 windshield replacement on my BMW 3 series, it doesn't appear out of place. It is true that 3rd party windshield replacement companies wont touch Tesla but I think that'll change soon.
Insurance should pay for it regardless of where you go. Safelight once installed a windshield that was too small several years ago in a VW GTI. It didn’t fit like the OEM one and you could see space on each side. Well, they told me they are buying windshields from China. So they then ordered a VW OEM one and ripped out the Chinese one. Because I was particular, they would no longer replace it onsite and made me go into the shop because while they were pulling out the windshield, they scratched up the steering wheel with the cutter. Model Y is the best selling car in the world. People who say they don’t work on Teslas will become dinosaurs over time.
@@billm47645 Totally agree.
Sorry, this is not about Tesla but insurance a la americane.
I had a friend who had to have a Tesla windshield replaced in the last couple of years, and they did get it replaced by Safelite. My recollection is that it wasn't specifically a "Tesla" issue, rather it was because of the automated driving features. The issue becomes that the windshield has to be properly aligned with the cameras and, after install, the cameras have to be recalibrated. Because of this, the installer needs to be "Tesla Certified" and not all Safelite locations have that certified technician.
At the same time, I believe that many other cars with automated driving features have similar issues, where the installer has to be manufacturer certified; to insure that the "autopilot" features work correctly after the replacement. My understanding is that it is not directly tied to EVs but rather to the cameras, radars and other sensors that are being increasingly installed behind the windshield and the skills required to ensure they will function properly after a windshield replacement.
High interest rates are a big factor in the drop in car sales in general. We bought our Model Y in 2021 and my interest rate was 1.79%. That’s unheard of right now but interest rates will be coming down in the coming months.
Generally, I don't have a huge issue with people not going electric. I have a problem with people having bad/misinformed reasons for not going electric. But if people are happy with their current car and intend to keep it rather than get a new one, I think that's a net positive. I can even understand companies pulling back from sales targets based on current demand.
Though I do worry about tactics that distract from the improvement of EVs by taking away investment (say heavy investment in hybrids or ICE production lines or scaling back EV R&D). That makes me nervous.
Love your channel and info. After watching you, Kyle and several other RUclipsrs, I recently took possession of the 2023 Ioniq5 AWD Limited. I went into this eyes wide open! I drove it back from Florida (where I bought it) to Texas. Some spots for charging were a little out of the way but I had no issues. With the Tesla network opening up, I think things will only get better from here. For me, the charging speed was my most important issue. I didn't want to wait 30 minutes on road trips. If you are considering an EV, get one that is right for you! See you all out there! Blessings!
These used EV prices crashing is exactly why i'll be getting into a tesla here soon. Finally becoming affordable.
I think EVs are wonderful, and I don't think there are issues with the vehicles right now. The big problem for me is that I deserve a better and more reliable charging infrastructure where I live. Starting with 150-350kW fast chargers on my island. IMO I need these chargers everywhere and even near home as a backup plan. I can't rely only on home charging because sometimes I just want to leave the car outside without pluging it and then have some options for emergencies.
I charge my EV outside. You just need to pick an EVSE with a housing meant for being outdoors (such as the GrizzlE).
I have my first in shop service for my Tesla next week. It was super easy to schedule, and they had lots of time slots available. I believe I need an alignment as the inside tread on both front tires was worn down to the indicators, but the rest of the tire was fine after 26K miles. I also need to get a window adjusted as even after the regulation process, it has a lot of wind noise on the highway.
Thank you for your excellent overview. I see I have some research ahead of me as I don't know as yet what is EA, CCS, V3..? The Vancouver auto show starts today so I'll be down there asking questions.
EA= Electrify America , CCS = Charging Combo Standard (this Sony Betamax) NACS = North America Charging Standard (Tesla; Think Panasonic VHS) and V3 = Version 3 Tesla Supercharger which outputs 250kW of power. Now go quiz the experts and report back on how many people know what you now know!
Home charging is j1772 (smaller plug, it's part of the ccs port) or tesla/nacs. You can slow charge from a regular outlet but ideally get 240v charger installed
Right now is a great time to buy a used EV these prices won't last. When they all get bought up, consumers who wanted an EV will pay a higher price.
Tesla service here in Albany, NY can typically schedule you within a week to 10 days. The crew here is very responsive to customer needs. The communication via app or phone has been good. They appear very organized and professional. My experience has been very positive.
I think you get biggest advantage out of EVs if you have a home EV charger and even better PV. The "pause" comes because it is much harder so sell EVs to people without a home charger. In this case with the actual charging infrastructure it much more convenient to have an ICE car...
I think dealerships should always offer a free home charger. Also, a problem (even for young folks) is the time needed to learn EVs. Some young folks don't have the time or are not that interested in vehicles so don't want to take the time to charge on road trips, etc.
1000%. As an apartment dweller, an EV would be a massive inconvenience. I have 3 gasoline stations within 0.25 miles. All the nearest superchargers (72kw) are inside paid parking lots. Alternatively, I could go to the airport. Who wants to go to the airport just to charger?? Nearest CCS chargers max out at 62kw. It's not an inconvenience I would want.
@@pilozm Understood. I hope the charging infrastructure gets better, cheaper and more widespread. We have a home charger at my house and an R1T and Ioniq 6. But they work for my use case.
Tesla EVs originally were shipped with chargers delivering up to 9.6kW, but they found many owners preferred a wall mounted unit so discontinued the universal mobile charger (UMC). Now, you buy it separately and it is reasonable. Installation often costs more than the charger.
Installation cost for some homes may be a burden. As for HOAs and condominiums, the difficult part is convincing board the amenity is needed. You will need a more expensive professional unit that accommodates multiple accounts and billing.
MB dealers offer a complementary Wallbox charger made in Belgium for EQ purchases. It’s a beautiful 11kW unit, but don’t understand why they feel it is worth $1150.
Resale hit by reduced price: I get it, but that mindset is foreign to my purchasing process. When I buy a new car, my presumption is that it’s street value tanks as soon as I leave the lot, and therefor I only buy if I’m ready to own the car for ten years. Were I the type that had to have a new car every two or three years I’d lease.
That how to do it if you care about money
the price roller coaster was driven by a convergence of several situations, and the OEM's clearly took advantage of it, but it was not sustainable, I would say that when you are confronted with this situation the change of paradigme would be to keep the car longer, but for rental companies and other which the business model is based on the residual value, they have to accept writedowns for this period. Visualizing the long term, car prices have to face gravity and for the vision of sustainable transportation it is the only way to go.
Great info Dave. Does anyone happen to know if the BMW i4 will charge on a Tesla supercharger yet (with the NACS adapter - like the Lectron Vortex)?
Our northern Ontario Tesla has been surprisingly amazing. We thought it would be a second car but it is our main driver summer and winter.
Same here in rural mid Minnesota. Best winter car I've ever owned, including my Subaru.
Excellent video. I purchased my Model X Long Range nine months ago and paid about $20,000 more for it than I would have a few weeks later. That was potentially irritating, but I really love the car and quickly got over it. I have been on the other side when buying a house, and paid a lot less than friends who waited a few years. Prices fluctuate. This is my third Tesla and all of them have had issues, some more serious than others. But I have always received good service from Tesla, and always had a loaner. Many times they have picked up the car and delivered it to my home, which is over sixty miles from the Service Center. I have had no issues charging at home or at Superchargers, but I no longer do many road trips. I wish Tesla would implement a few changes, such as front automatic doors that open more than a few inches, and automatic windshield wipers that actually work. I experimented with FSD for six months and found I couldn't trust it. But like you, I am an "early adopter", love my gadgets, and won't give up on them because they are frustrating. I have stopped encouraging my friends to buy an EV. Many of them view technology as a nuisance rather than as an adventure, and grumble about updates to their iPhones. I look at their cars with zillions of confusing buttons, expensive service costs and high gasoline prices, and content myself with wowing them with my Tesla's acceleration and the fact that everything just works.
I like your videos to compare your experiences against my own since I’m just finishing a lease on my first, and last EV. It just didn’t work out for me, but I’m open to learn.
👍👍😎✌️🤟 Waiting for the Model Y refresh and I am in!
I recently had a small scrape in parking lot & couldn't find anyone close by to give an estimate for repair. USAA finally let me take photos. Even our "Tesla Collision Center" said they do NOT do estimates. Est=$1,200 from pics: Tesla Collision Center took 40 days, final cost over $4,000! - 90% labor removing bumper. Biggest downside I've had owning EV is not a single body shop within 40 miles would give me an estimate on EV. Closest was 50 miles south. (we are in Northern Colorado) Biggest Positive: We caught the guy with Tesla Cams that hit me & took off - him getting ticket for prop damage & leaving scene.
This isn't necessarily an EV thing -- though I will acknowledge that Tesla has grown faster than "infrastructure" (in terms of service and body repair) can keep up. At the same time, I was hit (hit and run) in a Ford hybrid about a year ago, I had to go half an hour away for an available body shop (there were closer but not that had availability), and my repair took two months because of parts availability. None of the parts were "hybrid parts" that they couldn't get, I recall it was the front bumper that was so hard to get. I should also mention that I lived on the edge (just out of the city limits) of one of the largest cities in the US. It was a real mess, particularly since my insurer only allowed 30 days on a rental car -- and we didn't expect the car would take two months to fix.
This seems to be happening more and more in recent years to all cars, not just EVs; particularly since COVID.
@@davidnielson9139 actually the 10 body shops I called all said "We don't do EV's", not even an estimate. I did have an ICE vehicle last year that took over 4 months before they could 'repair' the body, the repair "line" was that long. Shortage all over the industry, but I still think "EV's" are unknown the infrastructure for body shops is missing. Glad Tesla stepped up in our area with a "Collision Center", but weird they "don't do estimates"....:)
One problem that I have: I looked at several electric vehicles. The one I liked the best for interior, rz450, has a very low range. But, I don't like the austerity of the Tesla and the huge screen in the Mach-e.
Thanks for your candid video Dave. I am in the same camp as you as a fairly early adopter. I have a 2020 Model 3, Dual motor, Ext range. Just 2 weeks ago I convinced my wife to invest in a 2024 Model Y. Here's the rubs. Even though she drove a loaner 2024 model Y, her new car seating is totally unacceptable. The bolsters are too close in to the seating position causing her discomfort to her lower back and legs. We are trying different padding and cushioning to alleviate the situation, but I fear she will be going back to a new Lexus 350RX that she gave up after 11 years and still loves. I do agree with her complaint as I found the Y to be more uncomfortable than my four year old model 3. I just got a repair bill for my model 3 pedestrian speaker which showed $325 labor for a $59 dollar part. That was for 1 hour labor cost. Outrageous!! I did sit in a refreshed model 3 and found that seat the most comfortable car seat I ever sat in. BUT, it won't work well for someone over 200 lbs unless they are under 30 years old. As far as pricing, I bought mine at over 50K and I have no complaint because I knew prices would drop just like large screen TV's.
19:38 "I think the manufacturers have our best interests at heart."
Oh come on, are you serious? 😆
Hmmmm. Fair point :)
Question for you. A lot of cars have spare tires or have space to buy one and store in the car if your car don’t come with one? When on the road trips, did you buy spare tire and laid it in the back??
I had the modern spare for the Lucid, but sold it with the car. I will definately get one for the X. It's risky out there not having a spare. Until you get burned by getting a flat, you can easily gloss over on this issue. But then when it happens, you can really mess up a few days of your life. A good wakeup call for any car to get a spare when traveling far distances. (even if you have run-flats!)
The issue is not that there is no spare, which is rarely used anyway, but the fact that if you want to carry one,
mostly because you drive or live in remote areas, especially in countries like Alaska or Australia, or even US middle states,
it is not possible to install and attach securely one inside the trunk. It would have been very easier for Tesla to change
a little bit the shape of the rear sub-trunk and add some attach anchor points to any Tesla Models instead of having
Tesla owner finding a more or less safe solution and have to make cut in the floor carpet and so on.
I agree, Tesla and other EV manufacturers need to design a spot in the floor for a spare, not storage in the floor for miscellaneous stuff. A spare is important!
I totally understand what you are talking about with the downsides.
1. As for anyone's bodywork problem, if you live near El Segundo, CA, my Tesla service center in Torrance sent my car to Jim and Jacks who did excellent paint work. I used them for body work before I got the Tesla. You might be able to call them directly about your Tesla bodywork problem.
2. On the positive side, I tell people that if they can charge their EVs at home, they will never want to go to a gas station again. In California cities, gas stations are often crowded and take a long time - besides being dirty and smelly and expensive.
3. On the negative side, I was talking to someone at a hotel in Irvine CA, and told him in 2024, don't buy an EV until he can get an NACS connector. This person went on to say that one of the staff at the convention had a nightmare driving his EV in from Phoenix. I asked what car he had; it was a Mercedes EV. So my advice to everyone is "Don't buy an EV in the US until you can get an NACS connector. Even if you can get an adapter, you'll soon tire of needing that adapter." This is an important driver of the sales drop you were talking about.
4. The price drop is a one-time thing that all early adopters should expect to suffer. This has impacted used EV prices, but buying a Tesla because you could flip it for a profit was always a risky proposition that should never been counted on. On the other side, the all-at-once $20K price drop in early 2023 was uncalled for by Tesla and has exacerbated the impression that EVs won't hold their value.
A couple of thoughts, I purchased a Toyota Prius years ago, and back then the number one question was how long does the battery last, forward to current time when I asked Tesla outlet center that is still the number one question. With the Prius I put over 170K miles and never replaced the brakes of the battery and in fact I donated the car and it is still in service. I also notice over the years that sales of Battery vehicles then to sell better when gas prices increase, and when gas prices decrease sales go soft. WRT the cold weather in Chicago, one Tesla owner said he could have gone to another Tesla Charging location that was not experiencing the charging issues, was just a great opportunity for the news to knock EVs. We purchased a Tesla right at the end of 2023, and found that for 100% of our driving needs we have had no problems with getting home with plenty of Battery life remaining. Again, education is what is lacking causing sales to be soft. Just some thoughts. Brian
Dave never fear 😊. All governments in most countries are 100% full steam ahead with there 10 year plan of total EV legislation.
Sooner or later everyone will be persuaded or forced into an EV.
Point made that the gas powered vehicles days are already numbered 😮.
Ford has also stated that all future Ford EV’s will have a rear mounted charging port exactly like Teslas.
There will be growing pains and evolutionary headaches but reality is that ICE vehicles days are numbered.
Electricity production can be designed cleaner and easier than the headaches involved in making an ICE vehicle emissions worthy.
If anything government is hurting EV adoption more than helping with the “mandates” that have more loopholes than the United States tax code has for rich people. Having lower emissions standards is good! That said in politics there’s a saying that “perception is reality” even though the so-called mandates have a metric ton of loopholes. Also question any politician that uses the term “mandate” yet can’t cite the actual laws in question or if they actually mandate anything. Those politicians are just as harmful to us as those who wave off real world issues with EV’s as if they don’t exist.
recently I had two wheels and one tire replaced by Teslas Moble Service here in AZ. Came out same day reported on the App and the technician reached out by phone. Everything was done in my garage in a few days and the Y was drivable at all times.Was a new experience to me and was so well done, it was a bit pricey but it's only money right?
A lot of things are subjective and I agree with the gist of your message here, Dave. If someone doesn't feel ready for an EV, if they're even on the fence about it, I don't push them into it. But some things are just objective scientific fact; and EVs are better for the environment. One reason is they *can* be powered by renewable energy but the bigger reason is how much more efficient they are, even when running on coal or gas power. Even a Hummer EV is as efficient as a Prius is on its best day.
People are so afraid to mention environment, climate change is a fact, the disinformation doesn't change that and it's been debunked
How much difference is the price for car insurance between EV vs ICE ? Also if the country goes full EV what is the plan for getting more power plants? As we all know, power plants are run on carbon fuel. I live in FL and our power bill keeps going up and up. Does Tesla install the charger at your house when you buy one or is it a separate charge and do I need an electrician to do so? I just have lots of questions thats all.
Not all electricity comes from carbon fuel. That depends on your local grid. My grid is 40% fossil fuels (coal/gas) and the other 60% wind/solar, hydro, and nuclear.
And yes, you'll want an electrician to provide a 240v/40A circuit with a NEMA 14-50 receptacle for the EVSE (charger) to plug into. An alternative is the EVSE gets 'hard wired' to the circuit (no plug). I get by with a 240v/20A circuit and charge my EV at 3.5kw.
Great info. I would buy a Tesla right now if I was 99% convinced I wouldn't need to visit a service center in the next 12 months as is the case with every ICE vehicle I've owned in the last 15 years. Live in a city of over 300,000 but would require a 2 hour drive for Tesla service center.
I haven't had any issues with Tesla service. But I live in Philadelphia and there are three service centers within a 45 minute drive.
Would love a video discussing the news yesterday of Tesla/Elon eliminating the entire supercharger network team.
I bought a new Bolt EV a couple of days after you purchased your X and I love it to death. I never thought about getting an EV until I started having some serious problems with my ice car. I luckily paid MSRP for it. I didn't qualify for the federal tax credit otherwise the price would have been less than 20k lol. I live paycheck to paycheck so I feel fortunate that I could afford to buy an EV. Prices are coming down so dramatically I'm not sure that is a hindrance. I believe it's interest rates the main problem and 2nd charging infrastructure. I charge in my garage which is absolutely amazing, however if I lived in an apartment I would have never considered an EV. Even if there were fast chargers across the street it would not be good for the EV to use them all the time. Gr8 vid as usual. 🚙 🇺🇸 🔌 ⚡
Hi Dave! Great information to know about EVs. I'm an Uber driver ready for EV adoption and I'm unsure whether the standard RWD Model Y would be better than an extended range AWD MY due to the 80% charge recommendation in the latter. What do you think?
Dave, what’s your thoughts onto the Tesla model 3 Standard LFP 100% battery actually giving the same range as the Tesla model 3 Long Range 2170 80% battery and the fact the 2170 battery degrades quicker than the LFP so after 45K miles the SR LFP actually gives more range than that LR 2170?
I used your code to buy my model Y. I have got 10,985 miles on the it. I got in the car tonight and got the alert, "High Voltage Battery Performance Issues. Service vehicle soon." Booked an appointment for April 4th. Just wondering if I got to replace the battery. Was not expecting this.
Thank You Dave for supporting Electric Vehicles and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
That's why you need to keep the volt
I’m living in Europe and Cars here became very expensive. For some used premium Car ( depends what year and miles the car has) you need to spend over 30k. Thats start price. We looked for used Tesla model 3 to buy, 1-3 years old max 30-50k miles, the best deal that we found was 34k. We almost bought it but great reviews about new Model 3 make us buy new Model 3 SR in January for 40k with “zero” miles and full warranty.
You said, like some other people, that EVs are not good in cold weather then why Norway has the biggest EV adoption in the world and it is planing to phase out combustion engine cars in the near future. Unfortunately, not you, but there are a lot of people who try to make sensational claims just to get attention to themselves. Maybe Kyle could go to Norway in winter to find out how EVs and especially Tesla is able to charge their vehicles in the super cold climate like Norway. I watched some people over testing different EVs and neither of them expressed any problems. Once again, I don’t want you or Kyle take my comments as directed toward yourselves but we shouldn’t take the conspiracies from other people at a face value. I love your channel, I think even better than Kyle, maybe because I am your age and I love when you tell us your personal story not only technical aspects of the EVs. 😊
I personally think that this Thanksgiving is going to be absolute pandemonium as giant F-150 and Rivian batteries pile into superchargers. The Tesla price drops were a lesson that the company is not afraid to make moves that stick it to their customers. We've owned 4 and I'm now looking into moving into an EV6 GT.
Pretty soon you’ll have Chevy Volts charging at Tesla Superchargers. You won’t need Thanksgiving. It will start in a couple of months.
EV6 is a great car. And it has a real dashboard. Beautiful.
Saw a beautiful white EV6 today. Really caught my eye. Kia and Hyundai are really stepping up their game and getting serious about the transition. It’s good to see.
@@bluedog9935 You talk about the transition.
It is not happening as fast as the EV people would have us believe.
In America, only 1 percent of vehicles are electric. 99 percent run on good old reliable gasoline. Gas stations on every corner.
You can add 450 miles of range at the gas station, in under 5 minutes.
@@DerekDavis213
Yeah and there used to be Blockbusters, Photomat’s on every corner too. And everyone had flip phones. Good old gasoline - it’s poison. Don’t believe me, set in a running parked car in your garage with the door closed. Actually don’t do that. Point is, you’re probably not a lot of fun at parties…
FUD is an acronym. I learned something new today, and it is only 05:40
many many people start an ev conversation in the negative ,yet know so little about about real life in an ev ,one item i think we surely need is no site including plug and share give you complete information about locations ,,that is really needed ,,ev go and ea ,, really created a lot of this with their issues ,, but we are beginning to see the improvements ,,but how long will the perceptions remain
An engineer at work has given me every piece of typical EV disinformation, how can he be so smart and so...naive.
Yes people are negative about Tesla for many good reasons:
no dashboard, just an iPad screen
poor paint and poor fit & finish, according to many owners
on road trips, public chargers waste a lot of time. Gasoline cars can add 400 miles of range in 5 minutes.
Range anxiety, and greatly reduced range in hot climates, or cold winter climates
Flaky Autopilot, many cases of Phantom Braking
FSD is forever in beta, and still cannot be trusted as of March 2024
Thank You !!!!!!!
That is some truth. It isn’t for everyone and I’m glad there’s choices. I honestly bought an electric car in hopes to run into someone at out of spec someday at a super charger. Also, it fit the bill of what I wanted for performance and somewhat lack of routine maintenance.
Owning an EVs in the winter is a matter of education more than anything else. We in Canada and the northern European countries like Sweden and Norway, which experience up to 6 months of winter, have no problem running our EVs through those months. Education is the most important thing, before you purchase an EV and after you purchase one also. I myself have lived through 3 winters without ever having a problem with my EV.
Side note, dealers are still charging over MSRP. Kia dealer in town charging $9k over sticker for the crappy EV9.
Reach out to Fort Collins CO Kia and tell them we sent you They are charging MSRP and will ship you the car for free. This is as per Kyle
@@dconner9 appreciate that. I have zero interest leaving the Tesla bubble at this point in time
When I was looking for an EQS one area dealer wanted $10k over msrp. I declined and went to another dealer that sold the car at list price and gave me blue book value for my trade. I was happy but now 20 months later that EQS has lost 50% in value and that is a big amount. I should have leased the car.
@@PierceHaviland ya that sucks, but I think that’s everyone’s situation who has bought a car in the past couple of years during the Covid thing. Every car loses a lot of value. Only way to really lessen the burn is to keep the vehicle as long as possible (10 plus years)
Tesla has no dealer markup, ever.
When are you going to buy the updated 3? Maybe your channel can do a chart on efficiency. For example Model 3 rear wheel drive is very efficient but trucks use twice as much energy. On Tesla service I needed to replace a windshield on my Y. My service center near my home in Sugar Land took care of it within a day. And talking about over paying. Cyber Truck is screwing folks that want to be first. Maybe it will help there profits in the first quarter.
The price reductions happen in most industries. I remember when I purchased my first HD Tv a Samsung consul 55 inch Tv. In 2001.
Enjoying this as I charge in my first month of driving an EV. A screaming good lease deal on an ID4. Thank you EV market crash!
As being a hybrid user, I got tired of hearing the battle between the two motors. I bought a EV 6 from Kia and couldn’t be any happier. I do believe that a hybrid is a good choice for a pickup because of the cargo and trailer loads.
Thanks for your videos Very helpful
We got the 'luxury' model Y long range that was very expensive! Its ok though because the maintenance on our 15 yr old vehicle that we traded in was killing us so we'd have spent that kind of money anyway. No buyers remorse though.. we are driving a Spaceship! We will be driving the wheels off of it though. Cybertruck in a couple years!
Would u recommend leasing or buying ur 1st Tesla if u can’t charge @ home?
Neither. If you can't charge at home, as I can, I think owning a full EV or a plug-in hybrid would be a constant aggravation. Your best option would be a regular hybrid cannot be plugged in.
@@PhilT993Thanx for being transparent I needed to hear this
@@lilgshock07 You are welcome, but that was only the short answer. There are many mitigating factors. For instance, how far you travel each day? What kind of public chargers are within walking distance of your home? If you drive to work every day, can you charge while you work? How cold is your climate as your car will not travel as far, take longer to charge and use more energy to keep itself warm if it is parked outside in below freezing temps. You can sometimes find free public charging at relatively slow public chargers, whereas fast DC fast chargers are quite expensive to use as your main source of charging. To look at it another way, how about if you could not charge your cellphone at home, but had to go to a coffee shop, or a mall, or at work, how would that be for you? In short, more research on your situation using an EV will serve you well. Try doing some searches on RUclips on the subject. "Regular hybrids", that don't plug in will basically recharge themselves and stretch your gasoline milage a bit. Plug-in hybrids (PHEV) have bigger batteries and travel further on their EV-only mode, but only if you plug them in every day to make use of that. If not charged up, they get worse fuel milage as a gas car as you are hauling around the dead weight of the battery and electric motor. Plus you still have to maintain the gasoline engine. As you can see it is a complicated question to answer. Good luck with your decision. Cheers, Phil
I think Tesla has been the single most destructive force in the EV industry over the past 36 months. The company needs to be regulated and put under a microscope for anticompetitive behavior. The problem with tanking new car prices is it impacts secondary values and residuals for leasing. This is 100% Tesla’s fault
This video was perfect in the sense that it was just common sense. Thank you for bringing something so solid and a bit different to your channel
On a different note, I purchased an IPAD in 2008 and took it on a trip. People on the plane including flight attendants were enamored. I was a bit late on the Iphone but was earlyish there as well. Now I"m REALLY late to the EV game as I haven't yet ordered my Model Y but know exactly what I want. Information is overwhelming but I read and watch a lot about it all. I need to chill and just order the car as my lifestyle is one that's around town and occasional trips of 60 miles round trip.
I think I am a good candidate for an EV and having researched and been educated mostly by Dave (and Kathy) Tesla is the way to go!!!!
There appears to be an inverse relati0nship between EV demand and the price of gas. If gas goes back to $5 / gallon, EV demand will likely strengthen.
Gas is $5/gal on the west coast, probably accounts for strong sales of EV's in those areas.
Bought the model 3 rwd/got the $7500 tax credit. It was cheaper than a toyota prius we also looked at. It's mainly a daily driver, but have taken road trips. The battery? That is what the warranty is for. Also LFP *should* last for a long time. Insurance was also cheaper on the RWD model 3 and its still fast enough. 11,000 miles later and the range shows 265 @ 100% (vs 272 when new) and the only issue was condensation in rear taillight (which they replaced at our home).
Prius might have gotten rebate too, but I don't get $34 for Prius Prime, people losing their minds over it
Tesla mobile service has improved A LOT over the past couple of years. Raleigh is a busy area for teslas. I was able to schedule for next day service about two hours away from Raleigh. They’ve hired a lot more mobile technicians reducing the service times!
I keep hearing the depreciation. This is more a market trend than just EV's. We bought a Jeep for $56k 2 years ago and its worth $30k today. I like the way Tesla adjust prices with the market. This can help you in times of high demand and low supply and can hurt you where we are today if you bought in 2022 or 2023.
The biggest hurdles I've seen people talk about why they don't want an EV now is the higher cost to buy, and the lack of public charging in many places. While EV's generally cost less to run compared to a gas car, let's be honest; most people will make their car buying decision solely on the sticker price.
And they will have to massively increase the amount of public chargers available to make it easier for people who can't charge at home to find it practical. The Tesla Supercharger network, as big as it currently is as of early 2024, is the bare minimum coverage. They'd have to quadruple the size of it before most people would be comfortable with an EV in my opinion. Especially in major cities where home charging isn't readily available.
There's also the EV education aspect, but I feel this one will gradually get fixed on its own as more people buy an EV and tell their friends, relatives, neighbors, and coworkers about it. People will likely be more willing to try an EV if they know someone who owns it, and what their thoughts on it are.
EVs are not necessarily cheaper than ICE vehicles.
Tesla costs more to insure, more for DMV registration, expensive tires that wear out nore quickly, and eventually a 20,000 dollar battery replacement will be needed.
And if you care about mint alloy wheels, Tesla wheels get road-rashed or scratched much more easily than Accord or Camry wheels.
Solid Video. Subscribed.
I have no issues at all with my Tesla Model 3 Performance. None at all. I charge for $0.11 a kWh at home each day and when I take a road trip I charge just fine with Tesla Superchargers. I have 535 HP and average 220 wh/mi. Why would I want anything else?
Maybe you would want a nice interior and a real dashboard?
Maybe you would want 400 to 500 miles of range, and gas stations everywhere?
A gasoline car causes no range anxiety, ever.
Maybe you would want higher build quality and higher paint quality than what Tesla offers?
@@DerekDavis213 nope. None of those things are an issue at all. Quality is great in my particular car and I have plenty of range.
@@LearningFast If you live in hot Arizona or cold Minnesota, range will drop substantially on the Tesla.
Also 450 miles of range in 5 minutes at the gas station. Charging takes hours.
When you take a long road trip, Superchargers are in your mind, front and center. Gasoline car owners have *no* *worries* .
@@DerekDavis213 you are wrong.
@@LearningFast What am I wrong about? I have been following Telsa pro's and con's for years.
let's remember that not everybody wanted a "car" Everybody wanted to keep their "horse and buggy." And we had no infrastructure for a car. Let's all embrace change to better the environment. What happened in Chicago was the perfect storm with major human error. I've now had my model y's through 4 seasons and I have no complaints. I love them. Remember Dave, once the "negativity" comes out people will change it and run with it and then it becomes even harder to help the environment. Be careful. Some people actually want you to complain so that the can say "even Dave doesn't like ev's." I will never encourage any negative comments about helping the environment. Transportation causes the worst negative impact on the environment. I'm sorry Dave, I had to turn this off halfway through. Don't let people encourage you to talk negative about ev's.
ya I don't understand the tax credit situation. the point is to increase EV adoption for all so tax credits should go to all buyers
I’ve had well over thirty cars in the last twenty two years, mainly Mercedes, with the rest being BMW or Audi; and the occasional Subarus, VW Golfs (Rabbit) and Alfa Romeos. My classic or older Mercedes were always reliable, even with various mechanical problems from time to time. I have a couple old Mercs from 2002, both being supercharged. They are powerful but frugal, comfortable, understated and provide cheap but reliable motoring. This is sustainable, or at least used to be, until the government decided to price us out of motoring of any kind.
Awesome video!
Whose EV sales have slumped?
Tesla's or the OEM's EV sales?
The OEM's have a problem in that they cannot compete in price, and they are ham-strung by their dealer network who are disincentivised in selling EV's. (no repair and servicing revenues) Add to this that they are losing a huge amount on each EV they sell which affects their bottom line, causing a revolt by their shareholders who are only motivated by their quarterly dividend payout.
The OEMs are caught between a rock and a hard place.
Honestly, I don't think anyone at OOS has been extremely rosy above EVs. Kyle, Dave, Alyssa, Francie etc.. have all spoken and documented the good and the bad of owning EVs.
Are you upside down on your Model X?
No
@@dconner9I agree as I checked the prices now for the same Model X and Dave actually got a great deal at $95K and now the car is offered for about $105K
I just bought a used 1 1/2 year old EV for a great price, cheaper than expected. I bought one for the reason that my Grandchild's will have a future. But I have to say, my wife and I are retired and we've a charger in the Garage. We don't drive so much anymore for that reason it's perfect for us. But for the bad charging reason in the some States in the Country I understand some bad answers.
My husband is buying a used bmw 7series for $13,000 cash, if ev prices decrease their sales would be better. My Kia sorento is 20 years old and I’m waiting patiently for ev prices to continue to decrease.
I’m never going back to ICE. Sure, I paid for a Wall Connector so, I’m invested in the EV universe now but it’s also that, they’re just better cars IMHO! I’m 46, I’ve been driving for 30 years, all but 1 of those years in ICE. So I have a pretty decent experience base in ICE cars… I never loved the ICE experience. New cars, used cars, very used cars… all were a pain in the keister to some degree. My Model 3… it just works. I don’t have to worry about much of anything! I get in and go. My garage is my gas station. I rarely have to supercharge but when I do, no problems finding or using them. It’s been a great experience!
The FUD is frustrating because… I never have any of the issues people insist I must be having. The worst thing? The auto wipers are possessed, lol! That’s really the main annoyance in my experience!
I suppose there are cases where an EV is sub-optimal right now. If you only drive like 3000 miles a year then the benefits of saving money in gas are limited. I drive like ten times that so, it works for me. I also don’t tow anything, never have, perhaps never will. If towing is a concern then EVs can tow but, not like an F350. But still, it’s not as bad as some make it out to be based on what I’ve seen Kyle do, etc.
Totally agree! And the maintenance is less than half too.
Your wipers are possessed, and this has been going on for awhile for many other people too.
Tesla can't fix that, but they want you to trust Full Self Driving? what a joke.
Many dealers deserve this EV pause after charging $10K over MSRP. Weak charging infrastructure, except Tesla, is another major factor in the slowdown. So much more education is needed to get people to convert to EVs
Just because the media and traditional OEMs claim a slow down, doesn't mean it's real. I'm looking forward to all the egg on faces when the 2024 slowdown data is finalized.
Great video: 1) people who bought when even Elon said, "our cars are EMBARRASSINGLY high priced right now." Sorry, if you didn't know prices were going to return, that's on you. Plus, if you can't afford to outright pay for a car without financing, you're a fool to buy on payments. You'll always be struggling financially because you're finacing depreciating assets.
2) take your car to your local auto repair shop. That's what i did. I did because it was 5 minutes from home rather than 30 minutes to Tesla. I payed more, but it was more convenient. Many shops besides Tesla can service Teslas.
Great video Dave!
Most, if not all of my friends are against EV’s, but I’m not. I can see a place for them. I do understand that charging and price are the biggest issue, along with the government trying to force them on people. For my location I have a perfect place to do all my charging at home. I have only driven two EV’s, an Audi SUV and a Chevy Bolt. I have checked into the Tesla and like their innovation but don’t care for their lack of color choices or body style plus they seem to playing with the price by showing one that subtracts the potential gas savings. We don’t drive much and this is way over exaggerated. Plus on a trade in they offer you wholesale for your car and charge you retail for theirs. My time is nearing its end, hopefully I will find the right one for us soon.
Trade ins at Tesla are atrocious. Tesla is going to have a lot of one time owners when they Trade their current Tesla to a traditional car dealership. 25-50% of a dealer’s business has a trade-in. Trade-ins are important, we all know you can get more on your own, but if you combine the sales tax savings, a lot of times the trade in makes sense. I have access to Manheim MMR, Tesla trade ins tend to be 10% less than MMR. At a normal dealership, you can usually easily negotiate to Manheim MMR. Sometimes they will even give you MMR without any negotiation if they are going to keep it as certified used vehicle.
A lot that could be said but one comment I have to make is there are zero, zilch, nada issues charging a Tesla in any environment. Even if you can't plug in at home (the only issue there is if you mind the Supercharger prices). The Chicago stories were a joke. All of those people were uneducated about ev's, preconditioning etc. And I'm anti Elon, but please let's at least agree on that. Zero local or road trip issues if you have a Tesla.
I love my EV, but I’ve seen other cars at dealership and when I call to ask about em, they don’t know anything the car… I think car dealership have to be educated as well if they want people to buy em. Right now the only people buying them are the ones that understand the technology.
It’s not Teslas fault when in a sudden macroeconomics (interest) change in a historic way. And it’s a problem for anyone who is selling big ticket items.
I personally like how Tesla adjust prices almost instantly with the market. This keeps their factorys and workers busy. If you remember, they do this the other way around as well. IN 2022 when they raised prices. Its all about supply and demand. To your point, mainly driven by interest rates and inflation.
You only lose money becuase of the low resale values if you sell. Dont want to lose money? Dont sell. Or dont buy a car. You should not be buying a car if it will have that large of an impact of your finances.