Thank you for the experiments & explanation! I am of the same "camp", in that I never use a gloss coat under the decals. I never have and I never will. I really don't see the point, and I never had any issues with silvering, or otherwise. I firmly believe in working smarter, not harder. The less I need to do to get to where I want to go, the better. Clear/varnish layers are simply not a thing in my painting process. I hardly ever use clear/varnish coats, at any stage of the painting process. Unless it will give an effect that I require. For instance, a satin coat on military aircraft, and a matt/semi-satin coat on military ground vehicles. In fact, I am firmly against using clear/varnish coats at the weathering stage, because it instantly kills all the intricate detail of the weathering work you have done, making it all a boring uniform layer again... Why would you do that?? Put in so much work to create the detail, only to destroy it immediately with a clear/varnish coat... Anyway, I just let the paint coat CURE! That is, I let the (any) paint layer sit for at least 24/48 hours, until is is fully cured. That way there is no need for any varnish to "protect" the paint layer, because the paint layer is CURED and NOTHING can harm it anymore. I have used aggressive layers of enamels for weathering, right over the cured paint layer. No problem at all. Again, the paint is CURED, it cannot be "reactivated". I have been doing it like this for almost 20 years now, so don't tell me it isn't so ;) haha! This method just works (for me). The painting process has, over the last decade or so, changed from being patient and waiting for things to cure, to doing everything as fast as possible. A lot of (paint) tools are now designed with that in mind. A lot of people don't want to wait anymore, either because they have limited time, or because they are simply impatient. But the way I do it, is to work on a number of projects at the same time. That way I can set one project aside to dry/cure, while working on another. And I rotate my projects, so that I always have something to do when things are curing/drying. I usually work on 4 to 5 projects at the same time. A projects is not always a model, but it can be a diorama or something entirely scale modeling unrelated altogether ;) I don't just only scale model. I have multiple hobbies that require my attention :) I also do not need satin or gloss coats for panel lining or other weathering techniques that require the paint to flow around objects by capillary action. If required, I just use a light stroke of thinner to slightly moisten the surface that I am working on, so that the weathering product will flow naturally around the objects. No need for a gloss coat to get that capillary effect. Will it look different compared to when using a gloss coat? I don't know. Nor do I care. I get exactly the effect I want and need, so why bother with varnish coats. I never cared about what other people think about how I do things, I just do what I do, and I am not forcing my methods on anyone. Everyone has their ways of doing things. And if that works for you, than isn't that just great? :) After all, it is the end result that counts, right? If you can get what you want, with what you are doing, than you are doing it right! More power to you! :) If someone has/demonstrates a technique that I think I can fit into my personal modeling and painting arsenal/strategy, I will test it, document it for future use, and implement it. If it doesn't work, I will thank the person that came up with it and move on :) It's really not that hard to NOT hate on someone that does things differently, and/or just say NOTHING if it isn't called for. But, these days it seems people just really, really feel the need to express their "feelings", especially discontent for some reason, about literally EVERYTHING. Even when they should just shut up. Ah well, "social" media has done some great things for us, but also exposed a LOT of not so great things about us humans... Anyway, if you made it all the way here, reading this wall-o-text, then you can probably guess that I also like long videos! Haha! ;) So, mr. Pattison, thanks again for the your videos, which I also love because they allow me to actually sit back, relax, and take in the information, while enjoying a cup of coffee (or two). I really hate those super short "fast" videos, which have already ended before you can even let go of the mouse (such as RUclips Shorts, or... ugh... tiktok... pffff).
Aside from sewing discord (LOL) I found this test very interesting. I usually use Aquagloss before decaling aviation or armor models, and have had the same results you produced here after a final matte coat. I do have a second good reason you may want to gloss before decals that usually comes up with automotive subjects. I use lacquer or enamel thinned with lacquer thinner for my automotive models. I have found that using a clear gloss barrier coat between the color coat and white decals will keep the base color coat, especially red, from migrating into the decals and shifting the color to pink over time. Some white decals are more prone to this than others, but I play it safe and use this gloss barrier coat every time. Thanks for the informative video Will.
Thanks Will, great video and has given me a few thoughts that I will try out with upcoming builds. Re clear coats, I have had the same issue with "hot" clear coats (such as SMS Super Clear Gloss) causing the lacquer paint coat to dissolve slightly into the primer coat, normally Mr Surfacer 1500 black, with the result being the primer coat colour bleeding through, I do have good results with either GX100 or Tamiya clears though, these are my normal go to's at the moment. I did previously use Aquagloss but had real issues during weathering, primarily with the enamel washes/thinners causing reactions with the clear coat, so have been sticking to lacquer clears now. I am going to experiment with the paint, Aquagloss, decal then lacquer clear coat process to see how that works for me, especially with regards to my previous weathering issues- if I can get the same results with my decals as you have shown though I will be a happy modeler 😀. Great to see you back and getting back into how to types of videos, was what bought me to your channel originally, also great to see your "helper" needing a bit of lap time, was especially funny to me as one of my cats decided he needed lap time at exactly the same time 😹
The layer of gloss varnish before and after the decals evens out the surface for subsequent effects. If you seal the first layer of matt paint under the decal, everything you do afterwards will affect the rest of the paint differently, and although it is normal that it is not even noticeable, sometimes and depending on the color, changes in tone may be noticed under the transparent part of the decal.
Fantastically useful and informative, Will, explains a lot in terms of the weird things I've noticed myself in my limited modelling experience and my suspicions as to the causes. The 'MAGBD' DOGMA 😉 didn't add up and certainly didn't yield reliably repeatable results for me. Considering the lengths you went to to investigate just one of the commonly held beliefs about gloss under decals, the results seem fairly conclusive. The whole smooth surface argument always felt spurious anyway; how can decals conform to surface details of any kind if a matte surface finish fucks them up?
Thanks you for taking the time and sharing your knowledge of decaling and clear coats. For those of us who want to build better models but don't have the time or drive to do detailed testing of products you perform a valuable service. I'll probably watch this video more than once! 👍
This is why I have gone from putting Setter on top like I used to do with Micro set instead of putting it under the decal. I was tired of ripping my decals apart while trying to get them into the right position. Now to get my decals to move easy I make sure I wet down the surrounding area with a small bit of my decal water. A 70/30 solution of distilled water and white vinegar.
Thanks for that Will. I am just starting back in plastic modelling. My last experiance I just did the decals as stated in the kit, no setting solutions or varnish. Not any more.
Good info man. My P-51 NMF is kinda on hold while I research and tested what’s gonna happen with a decal solution over the aqua gloss. It killed the sheen a tiny bit which was expected. Boo. But I’m brainstorming now about everything that has to go on top of it.
I see a lot of airbrushing even on youtube where the paint is nigh on spitting out its so thick (tamiya with thinner till the top?) and its no wonder people have so many silvering issues. Their paint surface probably feels like medium grit sandpaper.
If using a lacquer or strong, alcohol based acrylic, glossing before decals is unnecessary. However, for the people that spray water based acrylics (Vallejo, AK, etc.), you may have a very bad day if you try to decal without a gloss coat (especially if using a setting solution).
I suggest to prove your assumption that the clear laquer washes the paint into the black primer, is to use the same setup with different Mr. Surfacer 1500 primers, e. g. white, grey, black and maybe mahagony and see what hapens to the colour, when you shoot the clear flat laquer over it.
I use soapy water under to easy move the decal and Mark fit strong on top. I use gloss under because of Mark fit melting tendency. Then one layer of matt varnish hide those stains easy. Eduard peeling decals are another story though :)
From the guy who has literally been calling people "stupid" for using a gloss coat before decals on the modeling forums. At least he has now proven to himself that a gloss coat can make sense. Thanks for the video Will.
Many other things aside, I have ALWAYS appreciated your “how to” / test videos! Very glad to see them back!
love the videos where you apply your engineer's brain to things, I've learned loads about things as a result, great stuff Will, more please
Thank you for the experiments & explanation! I am of the same "camp", in that I never use a gloss coat under the decals. I never have and I never will. I really don't see the point, and I never had any issues with silvering, or otherwise.
I firmly believe in working smarter, not harder. The less I need to do to get to where I want to go, the better. Clear/varnish layers are simply not a thing in my painting process. I hardly ever use clear/varnish coats, at any stage of the painting process. Unless it will give an effect that I require. For instance, a satin coat on military aircraft, and a matt/semi-satin coat on military ground vehicles.
In fact, I am firmly against using clear/varnish coats at the weathering stage, because it instantly kills all the intricate detail of the weathering work you have done, making it all a boring uniform layer again... Why would you do that?? Put in so much work to create the detail, only to destroy it immediately with a clear/varnish coat...
Anyway, I just let the paint coat CURE! That is, I let the (any) paint layer sit for at least 24/48 hours, until is is fully cured. That way there is no need for any varnish to "protect" the paint layer, because the paint layer is CURED and NOTHING can harm it anymore. I have used aggressive layers of enamels for weathering, right over the cured paint layer. No problem at all. Again, the paint is CURED, it cannot be "reactivated". I have been doing it like this for almost 20 years now, so don't tell me it isn't so ;) haha! This method just works (for me).
The painting process has, over the last decade or so, changed from being patient and waiting for things to cure, to doing everything as fast as possible. A lot of (paint) tools are now designed with that in mind. A lot of people don't want to wait anymore, either because they have limited time, or because they are simply impatient. But the way I do it, is to work on a number of projects at the same time. That way I can set one project aside to dry/cure, while working on another. And I rotate my projects, so that I always have something to do when things are curing/drying. I usually work on 4 to 5 projects at the same time. A projects is not always a model, but it can be a diorama or something entirely scale modeling unrelated altogether ;) I don't just only scale model. I have multiple hobbies that require my attention :)
I also do not need satin or gloss coats for panel lining or other weathering techniques that require the paint to flow around objects by capillary action. If required, I just use a light stroke of thinner to slightly moisten the surface that I am working on, so that the weathering product will flow naturally around the objects. No need for a gloss coat to get that capillary effect. Will it look different compared to when using a gloss coat? I don't know. Nor do I care. I get exactly the effect I want and need, so why bother with varnish coats.
I never cared about what other people think about how I do things, I just do what I do, and I am not forcing my methods on anyone. Everyone has their ways of doing things. And if that works for you, than isn't that just great? :) After all, it is the end result that counts, right? If you can get what you want, with what you are doing, than you are doing it right! More power to you! :)
If someone has/demonstrates a technique that I think I can fit into my personal modeling and painting arsenal/strategy, I will test it, document it for future use, and implement it. If it doesn't work, I will thank the person that came up with it and move on :) It's really not that hard to NOT hate on someone that does things differently, and/or just say NOTHING if it isn't called for. But, these days it seems people just really, really feel the need to express their "feelings", especially discontent for some reason, about literally EVERYTHING. Even when they should just shut up. Ah well, "social" media has done some great things for us, but also exposed a LOT of not so great things about us humans...
Anyway, if you made it all the way here, reading this wall-o-text, then you can probably guess that I also like long videos! Haha! ;)
So, mr. Pattison, thanks again for the your videos, which I also love because they allow me to actually sit back, relax, and take in the information, while enjoying a cup of coffee (or two). I really hate those super short "fast" videos, which have already ended before you can even let go of the mouse (such as RUclips Shorts, or... ugh... tiktok... pffff).
I love these videos Will, thanks so much for taking your time producing these. Hopefully we'll see more in the near future☀
Aside from sewing discord (LOL) I found this test very interesting. I usually use Aquagloss before decaling aviation or armor models, and have had the same results you produced here after a final matte coat. I do have a second good reason you may want to gloss before decals that usually comes up with automotive subjects. I use lacquer or enamel thinned with lacquer thinner for my automotive models. I have found that using a clear gloss barrier coat between the color coat and white decals will keep the base color coat, especially red, from migrating into the decals and shifting the color to pink over time. Some white decals are more prone to this than others, but I play it safe and use this gloss barrier coat every time. Thanks for the informative video Will.
Will it's good to see you back please keep making videos.
Please keep making videos Will!It is a grand time to scale model while listening to your rants! :DD
Thanks Will. Now I
understand better why folks are painting on markings rather than decals.
Thanks Will, great video and has given me a few thoughts that I will try out with upcoming builds. Re clear coats, I have had the same issue with "hot" clear coats (such as SMS Super Clear Gloss) causing the lacquer paint coat to dissolve slightly into the primer coat, normally Mr Surfacer 1500 black, with the result being the primer coat colour bleeding through, I do have good results with either GX100 or Tamiya clears though, these are my normal go to's at the moment. I did previously use Aquagloss but had real issues during weathering, primarily with the enamel washes/thinners causing reactions with the clear coat, so have been sticking to lacquer clears now. I am going to experiment with the paint, Aquagloss, decal then lacquer clear coat process to see how that works for me, especially with regards to my previous weathering issues- if I can get the same results with my decals as you have shown though I will be a happy modeler 😀.
Great to see you back and getting back into how to types of videos, was what bought me to your channel originally, also great to see your "helper" needing a bit of lap time, was especially funny to me as one of my cats decided he needed lap time at exactly the same time 😹
LOL! I saw this and could not believe it was Will!!! Great video!
The layer of gloss varnish before and after the decals evens out the surface for subsequent effects. If you seal the first layer of matt paint under the decal, everything you do afterwards will affect the rest of the paint differently, and although it is normal that it is not even noticeable, sometimes and depending on the color, changes in tone may be noticed under the transparent part of the decal.
Fantastically useful and informative, Will, explains a lot in terms of the weird things I've noticed myself in my limited modelling experience and my suspicions as to the causes. The 'MAGBD' DOGMA 😉 didn't add up and certainly didn't yield reliably repeatable results for me. Considering the lengths you went to to investigate just one of the commonly held beliefs about gloss under decals, the results seem fairly conclusive. The whole smooth surface argument always felt spurious anyway; how can decals conform to surface details of any kind if a matte surface finish fucks them up?
Thanks you for taking the time and sharing your knowledge of decaling and clear coats. For those of us who want to build better models but don't have the time or drive to do detailed testing of products you perform a valuable service. I'll probably watch this video more than once! 👍
Nice to hear someone who talks sense on this subject👍
This is why I have gone from putting Setter on top like I used to do with Micro set instead of putting it under the decal. I was tired of ripping my decals apart while trying to get them into the right position. Now to get my decals to move easy I make sure I wet down the surrounding area with a small bit of my decal water. A 70/30 solution of distilled water and white vinegar.
Thanks for that Will. I am just starting back in plastic modelling. My last experiance I just did the decals as stated in the kit, no setting solutions or varnish. Not any more.
Thank you for the demonstration!
I am with you all the way on this one. 👍
Holy shirtballs, you got fresh decal water!
Thanks, I do enjoy it when you do the science
love your engineering brain
Good info man. My P-51 NMF is kinda on hold while I research and tested what’s gonna happen with a decal solution over the aqua gloss. It killed the sheen a tiny bit which was expected. Boo. But I’m brainstorming now about everything that has to go on top of it.
Outstanding once again. Nice demo. Nice insight
Good video - always informative.
This video was very informative, thank you Will. 😃
I see a lot of airbrushing even on youtube where the paint is nigh on spitting out its so thick (tamiya with thinner till the top?) and its no wonder people have so many silvering issues. Their paint surface probably feels like medium grit sandpaper.
Great stuff! Just wondering if you have to sand any decal edge with the mrp matte clear or does it blend the clear carrier film?
Great video Will.
If using a lacquer or strong, alcohol based acrylic, glossing before decals is unnecessary. However, for the people that spray water based acrylics (Vallejo, AK, etc.), you may have a very bad day if you try to decal without a gloss coat (especially if using a setting solution).
Funny you said cover an F-4 Phantom with Aquagloss. I just finished Olds’s Phantom from Bolo and that’s exactly what I did.
Knowledge is power mate
😉👌
I suggest to prove your assumption that the clear laquer washes the paint into the black primer, is to use the same setup with different Mr. Surfacer 1500 primers, e. g. white, grey, black and maybe mahagony and see what hapens to the colour, when you shoot the clear flat laquer over it.
It's a good point. While I was doing the test, I was wondering if Mr. surfacer 1500 gray would reduce the issue.
Will it was useful and entertaining, thanks.
I use soapy water under to easy move the decal and Mark fit strong on top. I use gloss under because of Mark fit melting tendency. Then one layer of matt varnish hide those stains easy. Eduard peeling decals are another story though :)
love the aperture on your left hand, I'm assuming its a tattoo, but why?
Very helpful, thanks.
Silvering is just micro air bubbles trapped under a decal.
Nobody disputes that. There is, however, lots of debate about what causes it, and how to prevent it.
Very Interesting!
35:24 Sound info all around.
29:44 Hawk tuhh, spit on that thing! 😂 Sorry Will, I just had to… Other than that, again a very interesting episode! 👍🏼
From the guy who has literally been calling people "stupid" for using a gloss coat before decals on the modeling forums. At least he has now proven to himself that a gloss coat can make sense. Thanks for the video Will.
He never called anyone stupid for using a gloss coat. But he did call out people who told others they HAVE to.
Find literally ANY example of me calling somebody stupid for using a gloss coat. Take all the time you need, Sherlock.